Sewage discharged into rivers 400,000 times in 2020
31/03/2021 | news | science | 86
Waterways in England had sewage discharged into them for three million hours
1
01/04/2021 08:44:28 9 6
bbc
Who could have guessed? Reduce regulation, reduce inspections, roll back the idea that the environment matters at all... and we return to the heyday of the 1800s. Hurrah for Victorian Values?
49
01/04/2021 16:00:09 1 0
bbc
"Hurrah for Victorian Values?"

What, like the Victorian values that set up the water and sewage systems in most places?

Yep, more spending on essential infrastructure like that would be a good idea!

Look up Joseph Camberlain for an example...
2
01/04/2021 08:47:42 16 5
bbc
CSO = Combined Storm Overflow.
When it rains too much - storm drains and and foul sewers combine and overflow
Climate change = more rain, more floods
more people = more paved areas = more runoff into drains
You can blame the water co's, but really if you are going to blame someone, try yourself and the way you live.
You demand a clean environment, pass the buck and want everything on the cheap.
5
01/04/2021 09:01:52 13 5
bbc
'if you are going to blame someone, try yourself and the way you live.'

Why? I haven't paved over anything, invited in millions of immigrants, fathered more than one child, built twenty million new homes, bought myself a 4x4, or gone down the stream when I needed the loo... please explain your reasoning?

The main cause of the problem is the same as every other - too many people.
7
01/04/2021 09:08:26 10 1
bbc
Why a down vote?
You are quite right.
The water companies have to work with an underground infrastructure that was in place long before they were created.
The only way to stop storm discharges is to stop the practice of putting surface water into the system.
Rainwater from roofs, urban run-off, should not get near the treatment works.
Problem is, no one wants to pay to replace the system.
3
01/04/2021 08:44:59 6 2
bbc
Havent learnt the lessons of the 19 century Hello cholera What the hell is going on
4
01/04/2021 08:53:44 11 1
bbc
"Open water swimmers, kayakers, paddlers and dog walkers have been asked to avoid contact with the water during and after sewage spills."

So, is there an open source website where these companies tell us when they've 'spilled' (read as released) sewage into open water ways.
Also, I'd like to see how an open water swimmer can do so without making contact with water. Maybe Dynamo can advise us?
12
01/04/2021 09:35:46 4 3
bbc
The technology exists to signal when storm water conditions force storm water overflows.
Personally, even if there were no storm discharges, I would not swim or whatever in rivers and streams.
Apart from sewage effluent, you have rats (Weils disease), cattle, road runoff, parasites from birds etc.
You wouldn't go into an unsterilised swimming pool, so why go into a river?
39
BW
01/04/2021 13:15:54 0 0
bbc
Search for "UK bathing waters status" The Environment Agency has a status page.
40
01/04/2021 13:25:34 1 1
bbc
Dog walkers - i live near an ancient monument that is covered in dog faeces
2
01/04/2021 08:47:42 16 5
bbc
CSO = Combined Storm Overflow.
When it rains too much - storm drains and and foul sewers combine and overflow
Climate change = more rain, more floods
more people = more paved areas = more runoff into drains
You can blame the water co's, but really if you are going to blame someone, try yourself and the way you live.
You demand a clean environment, pass the buck and want everything on the cheap.
5
01/04/2021 09:01:52 13 5
bbc
'if you are going to blame someone, try yourself and the way you live.'

Why? I haven't paved over anything, invited in millions of immigrants, fathered more than one child, built twenty million new homes, bought myself a 4x4, or gone down the stream when I needed the loo... please explain your reasoning?

The main cause of the problem is the same as every other - too many people.
9
01/04/2021 09:18:24 5 1
bbc
In a way, he/she is right.
So too are you.
The problem is the sewer system was built when twns and cities were smaller.
It is now almost impossible to separate the surface water (rainfall) from the raw sewage by installing separate pipework.
This is one case where you can't blame the water companies, but those who allowed the huge increase in urban development and housing expansion.
6
01/04/2021 09:07:17 6 4
bbc
Less people = less sewage.
25
01/04/2021 11:26:43 3 3
bbc
Well, that explains the Tories original 'herd immunity' strategy.
36
01/04/2021 13:02:03 0 0
bbc
You very true it all about cutting the world population down will solve a lot of problems
2
01/04/2021 08:47:42 16 5
bbc
CSO = Combined Storm Overflow.
When it rains too much - storm drains and and foul sewers combine and overflow
Climate change = more rain, more floods
more people = more paved areas = more runoff into drains
You can blame the water co's, but really if you are going to blame someone, try yourself and the way you live.
You demand a clean environment, pass the buck and want everything on the cheap.
7
01/04/2021 09:08:26 10 1
bbc
Why a down vote?
You are quite right.
The water companies have to work with an underground infrastructure that was in place long before they were created.
The only way to stop storm discharges is to stop the practice of putting surface water into the system.
Rainwater from roofs, urban run-off, should not get near the treatment works.
Problem is, no one wants to pay to replace the system.
8
01/04/2021 09:08:42 6 1
bbc
After a long dry spell, the first very heavy rainfall many of us surfers dont go out. As run off from hills, farms, sewage farms can pollute the nearby coast.

Not news.
5
01/04/2021 09:01:52 13 5
bbc
'if you are going to blame someone, try yourself and the way you live.'

Why? I haven't paved over anything, invited in millions of immigrants, fathered more than one child, built twenty million new homes, bought myself a 4x4, or gone down the stream when I needed the loo... please explain your reasoning?

The main cause of the problem is the same as every other - too many people.
9
01/04/2021 09:18:24 5 1
bbc
In a way, he/she is right.
So too are you.
The problem is the sewer system was built when twns and cities were smaller.
It is now almost impossible to separate the surface water (rainfall) from the raw sewage by installing separate pipework.
This is one case where you can't blame the water companies, but those who allowed the huge increase in urban development and housing expansion.
10
01/04/2021 09:26:47 7 1
bbc
The solution is simple.
Replace the aging and now inadequate sewer system with one that separates raw sewage from rainwater.
This would stop storm discharges at a stroke.
The problem is that the cost would be astronomical and almost every street would have to be dug up.
Opportunity here for some blue sky thinking.
The water companies have to work with the system they inherited from the Victorians,
26
01/04/2021 11:34:41 3 2
bbc
ok we'll do it differently when we start building on Mars.
11
01/04/2021 09:20:13 22 3
bbc
This is where privatisation comes into the argument: publicly listed companies on the stock exchange give a lot of their profits (in the form of dividends) to shareholders. Hence there is less money available for investment in sewage infrastructure. What a disgrace. Yet again an example of nature having to suffer the consequences of human folly.
13
QED
01/04/2021 09:41:41 20 2
bbc
There were very good reasons the Victorian local councils invested in water and sewage infrastructure. Not a good investment for private business as its so expensive to set up. Then of course we sold it all to buy thatcher an election. And guess what it’s too expensive for private companies to make the improvements needed to infrastructure. So I guess we will pay extra to subsidise them to do so.
14
01/04/2021 09:43:37 3 4
bbc
Not quite.
The wastewater infrastructure needs replacing.
Cost-wise this is a task beyond the water companies. There was little investment when they were public and existed as hundreds of small utilities.
This is a national task.
The debate about fibre broadband rollout would be small beer compared to the engineering work required to replace the wastewater system.
4
01/04/2021 08:53:44 11 1
bbc
"Open water swimmers, kayakers, paddlers and dog walkers have been asked to avoid contact with the water during and after sewage spills."

So, is there an open source website where these companies tell us when they've 'spilled' (read as released) sewage into open water ways.
Also, I'd like to see how an open water swimmer can do so without making contact with water. Maybe Dynamo can advise us?
12
01/04/2021 09:35:46 4 3
bbc
The technology exists to signal when storm water conditions force storm water overflows.
Personally, even if there were no storm discharges, I would not swim or whatever in rivers and streams.
Apart from sewage effluent, you have rats (Weils disease), cattle, road runoff, parasites from birds etc.
You wouldn't go into an unsterilised swimming pool, so why go into a river?
23
01/04/2021 10:45:42 1 1
bbc
My dog loves to swim, and he isn't allowed in a swimming pool.
11
01/04/2021 09:20:13 22 3
bbc
This is where privatisation comes into the argument: publicly listed companies on the stock exchange give a lot of their profits (in the form of dividends) to shareholders. Hence there is less money available for investment in sewage infrastructure. What a disgrace. Yet again an example of nature having to suffer the consequences of human folly.
13
QED
01/04/2021 09:41:41 20 2
bbc
There were very good reasons the Victorian local councils invested in water and sewage infrastructure. Not a good investment for private business as its so expensive to set up. Then of course we sold it all to buy thatcher an election. And guess what it’s too expensive for private companies to make the improvements needed to infrastructure. So I guess we will pay extra to subsidise them to do so.
11
01/04/2021 09:20:13 22 3
bbc
This is where privatisation comes into the argument: publicly listed companies on the stock exchange give a lot of their profits (in the form of dividends) to shareholders. Hence there is less money available for investment in sewage infrastructure. What a disgrace. Yet again an example of nature having to suffer the consequences of human folly.
14
01/04/2021 09:43:37 3 4
bbc
Not quite.
The wastewater infrastructure needs replacing.
Cost-wise this is a task beyond the water companies. There was little investment when they were public and existed as hundreds of small utilities.
This is a national task.
The debate about fibre broadband rollout would be small beer compared to the engineering work required to replace the wastewater system.
24
01/04/2021 10:51:37 8 1
bbc
"hundreds of small utilities." That was before the Water Act 1973.
Later, when Thatcher got involved she did the usual of depriving the sector of finance and then selling it off to her mates. Lust like the present Tories are trying to do with the NHS.
15
01/04/2021 09:57:27 12 1
bbc
The water companies find it cheaper to pay the fines.
Start to make the fines hurt. Really hurt and then they will get their networks sorted out.
20
01/04/2021 10:39:26 6 4
bbc
They already do.
Check out Southern Water's fine history.
At present, no-one could afford to renew the sewer system.
It's a national problem on the scale of road and rail renewal.
The water companies don't deliberately cause pollution, but they have to treat what gets thrown at them.
If it comes through 100+ year old systems, you get problems.
No point fining them when hands are tied.
21
AAA
01/04/2021 10:42:27 3 0
bbc
Any increase of fines ("costs" as businesses will call them) will just passed on to the customer to cover "the increasing cost of services"
Laws enforcing working practices, catching particulates, setting a maximum limit of what is expunged from the system is probably a better way to go.
16
01/04/2021 10:02:48 20 0
bbc
If it is permissable to discharge excess water volumes including raw sewage then why are we surprised that it is happening at a rate far higher than absolutely necessary, and on routine bases. Change the law; build in more capacity; pay the price for environmental safeguarding.
37
01/04/2021 13:05:34 3 1
bbc
Quite. There cannot possibly have been hundreds of thousands of extreme water events, least of all last year which was mostly dry. The water companies are doing this because it's convenient for them, and highly inconvenient for everyone else. I suggest everyone complains to their water companies. If thousands complained, the companies involved might get over themselves and fix this.
46
01/04/2021 14:58:08 2 1
bbc
I'm afraid it's not that simple.
The storm discharges are the result of tacking a lot of new builds onto Victorian pipework, plus the bad practice of allowing rainwater to be discharged into sewers.
What really needs to happen is a national multi-billion program of replacing the whole system.
We've had our money's worth, now it's time for people to get their wallets out.
Some hope.
17
lez
01/04/2021 09:53:48 8 0
bbc
I have recently seen that in Australia, they have started to use net to cover Storm drain outlets to catch waste and rubbish that flow from the drainage systems. Although not perfect it will catch most. Plus after the nets are installed, they be far easier and cheaper to help keep beaches and rivers clean and are simple to empty ever few months, as when need.
45
01/04/2021 14:52:16 1 0
bbc
They do it here as well.
The first experiments started back in the 1990's after the Control of Pollution Act (COPA).
The first bags were onion sacks fitted over outfalls.
It was so successful they were commercialised and became known as Copasacs.
Dead simple technology.
Recycle by washing out the rubbish and re-use for onions.
18
01/04/2021 10:20:37 8 0
bbc
I imagine many people contract illnesses by entering polluted water. I believe also that it is not always obvious and that the effects emerge maybe after many years when any connection with the nasty germs and viruses in the water is lost and forgotten.
19
01/04/2021 10:32:41 12 1
bbc
You don't have to enter it.
You just have to get it on your hands and transfer it to eyes, nose or mouth.
A colleague of mine contracted Weils Disease (Leptospirosis carried by rats) from working with river water.
Cattle and dogs can catch it as well.
Corona virus survives waste water treatment processes.
No-one in their right mind would drink from a puddle. Why swim in rivers?
18
01/04/2021 10:20:37 8 0
bbc
I imagine many people contract illnesses by entering polluted water. I believe also that it is not always obvious and that the effects emerge maybe after many years when any connection with the nasty germs and viruses in the water is lost and forgotten.
19
01/04/2021 10:32:41 12 1
bbc
You don't have to enter it.
You just have to get it on your hands and transfer it to eyes, nose or mouth.
A colleague of mine contracted Weils Disease (Leptospirosis carried by rats) from working with river water.
Cattle and dogs can catch it as well.
Corona virus survives waste water treatment processes.
No-one in their right mind would drink from a puddle. Why swim in rivers?
30
01/04/2021 12:07:55 1 0
bbc
Working with river water is one thing, but Weil's disease is very rare in the UK and the risk of catching it from occasional swimming in rivers is absolutely minimal.
15
01/04/2021 09:57:27 12 1
bbc
The water companies find it cheaper to pay the fines.
Start to make the fines hurt. Really hurt and then they will get their networks sorted out.
20
01/04/2021 10:39:26 6 4
bbc
They already do.
Check out Southern Water's fine history.
At present, no-one could afford to renew the sewer system.
It's a national problem on the scale of road and rail renewal.
The water companies don't deliberately cause pollution, but they have to treat what gets thrown at them.
If it comes through 100+ year old systems, you get problems.
No point fining them when hands are tied.
15
01/04/2021 09:57:27 12 1
bbc
The water companies find it cheaper to pay the fines.
Start to make the fines hurt. Really hurt and then they will get their networks sorted out.
21
AAA
01/04/2021 10:42:27 3 0
bbc
Any increase of fines ("costs" as businesses will call them) will just passed on to the customer to cover "the increasing cost of services"
Laws enforcing working practices, catching particulates, setting a maximum limit of what is expunged from the system is probably a better way to go.
22
01/04/2021 10:36:31 17 1
bbc
Water companies should be legally prevented from paying dividends until they have their infrastructure in order. And an independent body should set a very high standard for that infrastructure. Also, if necessary water rates should go up for this sole purpose.
27
01/04/2021 11:39:27 5 3
bbc
The water companies inherited the sewer infrastructure from the hundreds of small companies that existed before the regional companies were formed.
Some waste water treatment works were run by local councils.
The sewer system problems are national and beyond the spending scope of individual companies.
Water rates would not cover it.
It's on the scale of the UK motorway network cost.
33
01/04/2021 12:27:37 4 4
bbc
Even the most generous Water company dividends are only around 5-6% of turnover. If they stopped paying them entirely, the impact would be negligible, though their ability to raise funding for future investment would be impaired, leaving even less to spend on infrastructure improvements.

As is so often the case, if the answer seems simple, it means you haven't understood the problem.
12
01/04/2021 09:35:46 4 3
bbc
The technology exists to signal when storm water conditions force storm water overflows.
Personally, even if there were no storm discharges, I would not swim or whatever in rivers and streams.
Apart from sewage effluent, you have rats (Weils disease), cattle, road runoff, parasites from birds etc.
You wouldn't go into an unsterilised swimming pool, so why go into a river?
23
01/04/2021 10:45:42 1 1
bbc
My dog loves to swim, and he isn't allowed in a swimming pool.
14
01/04/2021 09:43:37 3 4
bbc
Not quite.
The wastewater infrastructure needs replacing.
Cost-wise this is a task beyond the water companies. There was little investment when they were public and existed as hundreds of small utilities.
This is a national task.
The debate about fibre broadband rollout would be small beer compared to the engineering work required to replace the wastewater system.
24
01/04/2021 10:51:37 8 1
bbc
"hundreds of small utilities." That was before the Water Act 1973.
Later, when Thatcher got involved she did the usual of depriving the sector of finance and then selling it off to her mates. Lust like the present Tories are trying to do with the NHS.
6
01/04/2021 09:07:17 6 4
bbc
Less people = less sewage.
25
01/04/2021 11:26:43 3 3
bbc
Well, that explains the Tories original 'herd immunity' strategy.
10
01/04/2021 09:26:47 7 1
bbc
The solution is simple.
Replace the aging and now inadequate sewer system with one that separates raw sewage from rainwater.
This would stop storm discharges at a stroke.
The problem is that the cost would be astronomical and almost every street would have to be dug up.
Opportunity here for some blue sky thinking.
The water companies have to work with the system they inherited from the Victorians,
26
01/04/2021 11:34:41 3 2
bbc
ok we'll do it differently when we start building on Mars.
22
01/04/2021 10:36:31 17 1
bbc
Water companies should be legally prevented from paying dividends until they have their infrastructure in order. And an independent body should set a very high standard for that infrastructure. Also, if necessary water rates should go up for this sole purpose.
27
01/04/2021 11:39:27 5 3
bbc
The water companies inherited the sewer infrastructure from the hundreds of small companies that existed before the regional companies were formed.
Some waste water treatment works were run by local councils.
The sewer system problems are national and beyond the spending scope of individual companies.
Water rates would not cover it.
It's on the scale of the UK motorway network cost.
32
01/04/2021 12:16:18 5 1
bbc
True, but they inherited it decades ago, did nothing, and pay dividends.
62
01/04/2021 22:07:56 1 0
bbc
I disagree.
Almost all water & sewage responsibilities was held by local authorities from early in the 20th century & the regional water authorities formed in 1974.
Lack of investment by largely socialist run councils started the rot, followed by 5 years of stagnation under the disastrous, Callaghan led Labour government.
Privatisation was the only viable option, let down by directors' greed.
28
01/04/2021 11:56:57 12 0
bbc
if only people will stop flushing wet wipes and anything else that's not suitable down the toilet will help
29
01/04/2021 11:49:05 0 0
bbc
Meanwhile, we are all told that we are killing the planet with all the plastics "we" use - created by big business. We are destroying the planet with deodorants that "we " consume - made by big business, and let's not forget the NHS, which we are destroying, by "our" breathing.
19
01/04/2021 10:32:41 12 1
bbc
You don't have to enter it.
You just have to get it on your hands and transfer it to eyes, nose or mouth.
A colleague of mine contracted Weils Disease (Leptospirosis carried by rats) from working with river water.
Cattle and dogs can catch it as well.
Corona virus survives waste water treatment processes.
No-one in their right mind would drink from a puddle. Why swim in rivers?
30
01/04/2021 12:07:55 1 0
bbc
Working with river water is one thing, but Weil's disease is very rare in the UK and the risk of catching it from occasional swimming in rivers is absolutely minimal.
31
01/04/2021 12:14:39 12 0
bbc
Its amazing how much crap 70 million people can produce, perhaps there are too many of us? or at the very least the antiquated sewers that service massive new build developments should have been upgraded as part of the building process?
and dumping raw sewage it illegal, not something that gets a fine, something that gets a director jail time.
27
01/04/2021 11:39:27 5 3
bbc
The water companies inherited the sewer infrastructure from the hundreds of small companies that existed before the regional companies were formed.
Some waste water treatment works were run by local councils.
The sewer system problems are national and beyond the spending scope of individual companies.
Water rates would not cover it.
It's on the scale of the UK motorway network cost.
32
01/04/2021 12:16:18 5 1
bbc
True, but they inherited it decades ago, did nothing, and pay dividends.
22
01/04/2021 10:36:31 17 1
bbc
Water companies should be legally prevented from paying dividends until they have their infrastructure in order. And an independent body should set a very high standard for that infrastructure. Also, if necessary water rates should go up for this sole purpose.
33
01/04/2021 12:27:37 4 4
bbc
Even the most generous Water company dividends are only around 5-6% of turnover. If they stopped paying them entirely, the impact would be negligible, though their ability to raise funding for future investment would be impaired, leaving even less to spend on infrastructure improvements.

As is so often the case, if the answer seems simple, it means you haven't understood the problem.
34
01/04/2021 12:32:52 1 7
bbc
Yep, **all** the fish, wales, seals, & not forgetting the dolphins get out of the sea to have a crap!
57
01/04/2021 21:31:14 1 0
bbc
You do have point there, but it’s the sheer global volume of human overpopulation that’s the problem, plus all the other waste and pollution we create.
64
02/04/2021 06:50:46 1 0
bbc
'wales'

???? - why are you being so hard on our Welsh cousins?
35
01/04/2021 12:55:19 3 2
bbc
Let nature help you out clean the water get beavers create ponds cost less
Money for the water company's
6
01/04/2021 09:07:17 6 4
bbc
Less people = less sewage.
36
01/04/2021 13:02:03 0 0
bbc
You very true it all about cutting the world population down will solve a lot of problems
16
01/04/2021 10:02:48 20 0
bbc
If it is permissable to discharge excess water volumes including raw sewage then why are we surprised that it is happening at a rate far higher than absolutely necessary, and on routine bases. Change the law; build in more capacity; pay the price for environmental safeguarding.
37
01/04/2021 13:05:34 3 1
bbc
Quite. There cannot possibly have been hundreds of thousands of extreme water events, least of all last year which was mostly dry. The water companies are doing this because it's convenient for them, and highly inconvenient for everyone else. I suggest everyone complains to their water companies. If thousands complained, the companies involved might get over themselves and fix this.
42
01/04/2021 13:39:01 1 0
bbc
We shouldn't need to complain (and to be honest I really don't think that it will change their behaviour), the regulator should be stepping in.
4
01/04/2021 08:53:44 11 1
bbc
"Open water swimmers, kayakers, paddlers and dog walkers have been asked to avoid contact with the water during and after sewage spills."

So, is there an open source website where these companies tell us when they've 'spilled' (read as released) sewage into open water ways.
Also, I'd like to see how an open water swimmer can do so without making contact with water. Maybe Dynamo can advise us?
4
01/04/2021 08:53:44 11 1
bbc
"Open water swimmers, kayakers, paddlers and dog walkers have been asked to avoid contact with the water during and after sewage spills."

So, is there an open source website where these companies tell us when they've 'spilled' (read as released) sewage into open water ways.
Also, I'd like to see how an open water swimmer can do so without making contact with water. Maybe Dynamo can advise us?
39
BW
01/04/2021 13:15:54 0 0
bbc
Search for "UK bathing waters status" The Environment Agency has a status page.
4
01/04/2021 08:53:44 11 1
bbc
"Open water swimmers, kayakers, paddlers and dog walkers have been asked to avoid contact with the water during and after sewage spills."

So, is there an open source website where these companies tell us when they've 'spilled' (read as released) sewage into open water ways.
Also, I'd like to see how an open water swimmer can do so without making contact with water. Maybe Dynamo can advise us?
40
01/04/2021 13:25:34 1 1
bbc
Dog walkers - i live near an ancient monument that is covered in dog faeces
41
01/04/2021 13:28:07 14 1
bbc
The perennial British problem - lack of investment in maintaining the infrastructure - capital taken out to pay a few shareholders inflated profits.
37
01/04/2021 13:05:34 3 1
bbc
Quite. There cannot possibly have been hundreds of thousands of extreme water events, least of all last year which was mostly dry. The water companies are doing this because it's convenient for them, and highly inconvenient for everyone else. I suggest everyone complains to their water companies. If thousands complained, the companies involved might get over themselves and fix this.
42
01/04/2021 13:39:01 1 0
bbc
We shouldn't need to complain (and to be honest I really don't think that it will change their behaviour), the regulator should be stepping in.
43
01/04/2021 13:50:48 0 5
bbc
Are you sure these numbers make sense? There are 8760 hours in a year so if there were 3 million hours that these discharges happened, that means that 343 sites must have been discharging sewage for 24 hours a day for the whole year!! To me these number seem ridiculous. I don't deny that there is a problem but the numbers of spills and hours of spills quoted in this article seem to defy logic.
47
01/04/2021 15:38:56 3 0
bbc
There are 8760 hours in a year so if there were 3 million hours...

If a discharge happens for say 5 hours after heavy rainfall into 200 different rivers, that's 1,000 hours, Also there are many different discharge sites on each river, so at only 20 sites per river that's 20,000 hours right there.
There are thousands of rivers in the UK. It is possible.
44
01/04/2021 14:40:53 5 0
bbc
Rightly, the Environment Agency issues permits to release waste from sewer overflows so water does not back up and flood homes.

This does not explain why the overflows are in use during dry periods!

A new permit system is required to correctly limit when the overflows can be used and force the water companies to build more treatment plants when thresholds are broken.
17
lez
01/04/2021 09:53:48 8 0
bbc
I have recently seen that in Australia, they have started to use net to cover Storm drain outlets to catch waste and rubbish that flow from the drainage systems. Although not perfect it will catch most. Plus after the nets are installed, they be far easier and cheaper to help keep beaches and rivers clean and are simple to empty ever few months, as when need.
45
01/04/2021 14:52:16 1 0
bbc
They do it here as well.
The first experiments started back in the 1990's after the Control of Pollution Act (COPA).
The first bags were onion sacks fitted over outfalls.
It was so successful they were commercialised and became known as Copasacs.
Dead simple technology.
Recycle by washing out the rubbish and re-use for onions.
16
01/04/2021 10:02:48 20 0
bbc
If it is permissable to discharge excess water volumes including raw sewage then why are we surprised that it is happening at a rate far higher than absolutely necessary, and on routine bases. Change the law; build in more capacity; pay the price for environmental safeguarding.
46
01/04/2021 14:58:08 2 1
bbc
I'm afraid it's not that simple.
The storm discharges are the result of tacking a lot of new builds onto Victorian pipework, plus the bad practice of allowing rainwater to be discharged into sewers.
What really needs to happen is a national multi-billion program of replacing the whole system.
We've had our money's worth, now it's time for people to get their wallets out.
Some hope.
43
01/04/2021 13:50:48 0 5
bbc
Are you sure these numbers make sense? There are 8760 hours in a year so if there were 3 million hours that these discharges happened, that means that 343 sites must have been discharging sewage for 24 hours a day for the whole year!! To me these number seem ridiculous. I don't deny that there is a problem but the numbers of spills and hours of spills quoted in this article seem to defy logic.
47
01/04/2021 15:38:56 3 0
bbc
There are 8760 hours in a year so if there were 3 million hours...

If a discharge happens for say 5 hours after heavy rainfall into 200 different rivers, that's 1,000 hours, Also there are many different discharge sites on each river, so at only 20 sites per river that's 20,000 hours right there.
There are thousands of rivers in the UK. It is possible.
48
01/04/2021 15:44:11 5 0
bbc
Perhaps they should ban wet wipes since people clearly can't be trusted to dispose of them correctly. Cotton wool, tissues or toilet roll dampened with some water, or a washable cloth with disinfectant spray can do the job(s) the same way in most cases.
How much money is it costing the taxpayers or bill payers for employees to clear these blockages ?
1
01/04/2021 08:44:28 9 6
bbc
Who could have guessed? Reduce regulation, reduce inspections, roll back the idea that the environment matters at all... and we return to the heyday of the 1800s. Hurrah for Victorian Values?
49
01/04/2021 16:00:09 1 0
bbc
"Hurrah for Victorian Values?"

What, like the Victorian values that set up the water and sewage systems in most places?

Yep, more spending on essential infrastructure like that would be a good idea!

Look up Joseph Camberlain for an example...
50
01/04/2021 20:31:02 2 1
bbc
There’s no excuse for it. The rivers are suffering enough from farm pollution, without deliberate raw sewerage release, and god knows what else.

Flash flooding is an urgent issue as climate change bites. The answer lies in whole river system ecological restoration.
Remove subsidised sheep from the hills, reforest, restore peat bogs. Leaky dams, beaver reintroduction, wetland restoration.
52
01/04/2021 20:58:06 1 4
bbc
Farmers are responsible for more pollution in our rivers with run offs from their manure ponds. This is the reason our rivers look brown when it rains. The government do not care, they do not even bother inspecting farms now, they just let them get away with it. Total neglect for our rivers and wildlife, the tories are not fit to be in charge of our wonderful wildlife, woodlands, meadows and sea
51
01/04/2021 20:51:38 0 0
bbc
if wet wipes are 90% of the blockages then the UK should sit down with the manufacturers and see if they can make them break up faster and letting them get caught up less, then force them to implement those changes.
59
01/04/2021 21:44:12 2 0
bbc
But wet wipes shouldn’t be going down the toilet in the first place. Another characteristic of selfish, thoughtless, ignorant, dismissive society.
50
01/04/2021 20:31:02 2 1
bbc
There’s no excuse for it. The rivers are suffering enough from farm pollution, without deliberate raw sewerage release, and god knows what else.

Flash flooding is an urgent issue as climate change bites. The answer lies in whole river system ecological restoration.
Remove subsidised sheep from the hills, reforest, restore peat bogs. Leaky dams, beaver reintroduction, wetland restoration.
52
01/04/2021 20:58:06 1 4
bbc
Farmers are responsible for more pollution in our rivers with run offs from their manure ponds. This is the reason our rivers look brown when it rains. The government do not care, they do not even bother inspecting farms now, they just let them get away with it. Total neglect for our rivers and wildlife, the tories are not fit to be in charge of our wonderful wildlife, woodlands, meadows and sea
55
01/04/2021 21:16:26 1 1
bbc
You’re damn right. The Government must be held to account, held to its pledges. Draconian measures are needed to change the UK rural landscape, redirect farm subsidies to reduce farming domination, restore forests, peat lands, wetlands, native wildlife.
65
02/04/2021 06:58:26 2 0
bbc
The main reason our rivers look brown when it rains and they are in spate is the water flowing to, and in, the river channel has the power to erode, pick up and transport in suspension fine particulate matter (silt and clay size).
71
02/04/2021 07:37:23 0 0
bbc
You do realise that without farmers, we wouldn't have those wonderful meadows you are so keen on?
53
01/04/2021 20:58:59 1 1
bbc
Privatisation really worked here, we are all locked into one water company who we have to pay no matter how bad they are, they can increase their prices and dump or own waste into our rivers and seas, the waste that we pay for them to treat. The government are so weak at regulating them that it is cheaper for them to dump the waste and get fined than actually fix the system causing the problem
54
01/04/2021 21:14:49 2 0
bbc
Well, well what a shock the EA are useless!!!!!!!!!!
52
01/04/2021 20:58:06 1 4
bbc
Farmers are responsible for more pollution in our rivers with run offs from their manure ponds. This is the reason our rivers look brown when it rains. The government do not care, they do not even bother inspecting farms now, they just let them get away with it. Total neglect for our rivers and wildlife, the tories are not fit to be in charge of our wonderful wildlife, woodlands, meadows and sea
55
01/04/2021 21:16:26 1 1
bbc
You’re damn right. The Government must be held to account, held to its pledges. Draconian measures are needed to change the UK rural landscape, redirect farm subsidies to reduce farming domination, restore forests, peat lands, wetlands, native wildlife.
58
01/04/2021 21:35:44 1 1
bbc
Oh and Government is bullied by the farming lobby. Kick them to touch! Stand up to them Boris.
56
01/04/2021 21:24:59 1 1
bbc
Our UK rivers, wildlife and natural biodiversity are in dire trouble from human activity.

The Government must be held to account, held to its pledges to restore nature and fight climate change.

Draconian measures are needed to change the UK rural landscape, redirect farm subsidies to reduce farming domination in major river catchments.
Restore forests, peat lands, wetlands, native wildlife.
34
01/04/2021 12:32:52 1 7
bbc
Yep, **all** the fish, wales, seals, & not forgetting the dolphins get out of the sea to have a crap!
57
01/04/2021 21:31:14 1 0
bbc
You do have point there, but it’s the sheer global volume of human overpopulation that’s the problem, plus all the other waste and pollution we create.
55
01/04/2021 21:16:26 1 1
bbc
You’re damn right. The Government must be held to account, held to its pledges. Draconian measures are needed to change the UK rural landscape, redirect farm subsidies to reduce farming domination, restore forests, peat lands, wetlands, native wildlife.
58
01/04/2021 21:35:44 1 1
bbc
Oh and Government is bullied by the farming lobby. Kick them to touch! Stand up to them Boris.
68
02/04/2021 07:28:10 0 0
bbc
Did a farmer run over your dog, or something?

And where do you propose to get your food from, if you manage to "kick all the farmers into touch"...
51
01/04/2021 20:51:38 0 0
bbc
if wet wipes are 90% of the blockages then the UK should sit down with the manufacturers and see if they can make them break up faster and letting them get caught up less, then force them to implement those changes.
59
01/04/2021 21:44:12 2 0
bbc
But wet wipes shouldn’t be going down the toilet in the first place. Another characteristic of selfish, thoughtless, ignorant, dismissive society.
60
01/04/2021 21:44:51 0 0
bbc
And people wander our waters are Grade B.
61
01/04/2021 21:57:41 1 0
bbc
The water companies have utterly failed to reduce these incessant discharges, preferring to pay obscene bonuses to directors & excessive dividends to shareholders.
Any future rises in water charges should be stopped until these companies address their duty to reduce leaks & overflows.
Their behaviour borders on criminal negligence.
63
01/04/2021 23:18:16 2 0
bbc
Not "borders on", "is". Time for a few prosecutions!
27
01/04/2021 11:39:27 5 3
bbc
The water companies inherited the sewer infrastructure from the hundreds of small companies that existed before the regional companies were formed.
Some waste water treatment works were run by local councils.
The sewer system problems are national and beyond the spending scope of individual companies.
Water rates would not cover it.
It's on the scale of the UK motorway network cost.
62
01/04/2021 22:07:56 1 0
bbc
I disagree.
Almost all water & sewage responsibilities was held by local authorities from early in the 20th century & the regional water authorities formed in 1974.
Lack of investment by largely socialist run councils started the rot, followed by 5 years of stagnation under the disastrous, Callaghan led Labour government.
Privatisation was the only viable option, let down by directors' greed.
67
02/04/2021 07:23:37 0 0
bbc
You are saying it didn't work under the evil Socialist councils, or the useless Labour government, and so the Blessed St Margaret Hilda privatised it.

And you say the Glorious Free Market has done no better...

I'm not sure you've proved what you think you've proved!
61
01/04/2021 21:57:41 1 0
bbc
The water companies have utterly failed to reduce these incessant discharges, preferring to pay obscene bonuses to directors & excessive dividends to shareholders.
Any future rises in water charges should be stopped until these companies address their duty to reduce leaks & overflows.
Their behaviour borders on criminal negligence.
63
01/04/2021 23:18:16 2 0
bbc
Not "borders on", "is". Time for a few prosecutions!
79
02/04/2021 09:15:37 0 0
bbc
Either that or more productively long term, investment in infrastructure and upstream natural flood reduction measures.
34
01/04/2021 12:32:52 1 7
bbc
Yep, **all** the fish, wales, seals, & not forgetting the dolphins get out of the sea to have a crap!
64
02/04/2021 06:50:46 1 0
bbc
'wales'

???? - why are you being so hard on our Welsh cousins?
52
01/04/2021 20:58:06 1 4
bbc
Farmers are responsible for more pollution in our rivers with run offs from their manure ponds. This is the reason our rivers look brown when it rains. The government do not care, they do not even bother inspecting farms now, they just let them get away with it. Total neglect for our rivers and wildlife, the tories are not fit to be in charge of our wonderful wildlife, woodlands, meadows and sea
65
02/04/2021 06:58:26 2 0
bbc
The main reason our rivers look brown when it rains and they are in spate is the water flowing to, and in, the river channel has the power to erode, pick up and transport in suspension fine particulate matter (silt and clay size).
66
02/04/2021 07:04:18 0 0
bbc
This is fine. It acts as a fertiliser and gives fish something to eat. Stop fussing.
70
02/04/2021 07:08:13 2 0
bbc
Nope - excessive discharge of sewage creates a BOD which removes oxygen from the watercourse and causes fish kills as well as the death of other aquatic organisms.
78
02/04/2021 08:27:48 0 1
bbc
Don’t understand delicate diverse rover ecosystems do you. You’re just another member of the ignorant masses.
62
01/04/2021 22:07:56 1 0
bbc
I disagree.
Almost all water & sewage responsibilities was held by local authorities from early in the 20th century & the regional water authorities formed in 1974.
Lack of investment by largely socialist run councils started the rot, followed by 5 years of stagnation under the disastrous, Callaghan led Labour government.
Privatisation was the only viable option, let down by directors' greed.
67
02/04/2021 07:23:37 0 0
bbc
You are saying it didn't work under the evil Socialist councils, or the useless Labour government, and so the Blessed St Margaret Hilda privatised it.

And you say the Glorious Free Market has done no better...

I'm not sure you've proved what you think you've proved!
58
01/04/2021 21:35:44 1 1
bbc
Oh and Government is bullied by the farming lobby. Kick them to touch! Stand up to them Boris.
68
02/04/2021 07:28:10 0 0
bbc
Did a farmer run over your dog, or something?

And where do you propose to get your food from, if you manage to "kick all the farmers into touch"...
85
02/04/2021 22:00:19 0 0
bbc
You look at farming through rise coloured spectacles me thinks.
69
02/04/2021 07:28:27 3 3
bbc
Cut the dominance of livestock farming in major river catchments. In Wales, THREE FARMING POLLUTION INCIDENTS EVERY WEEK. Constant runoff issues, livestock grazing to watercourses, erosion, siltation.
All efforts to rewild, reintroduce native wildlife, eg. beaver resisted by the farming lobby.
Overgrazed Bare hills exacerbate flash flooding, poor biodiversity.
WE DONT NEED FATTY LAMB TO SURVIVE
73
02/04/2021 07:45:24 1 2
bbc
So whoever downvoted thinks it’s ok do you for the farming industry to carry on destroying our wildlife?
66
02/04/2021 07:04:18 0 0
bbc
This is fine. It acts as a fertiliser and gives fish something to eat. Stop fussing.
70
02/04/2021 07:08:13 2 0
bbc
Nope - excessive discharge of sewage creates a BOD which removes oxygen from the watercourse and causes fish kills as well as the death of other aquatic organisms.
52
01/04/2021 20:58:06 1 4
bbc
Farmers are responsible for more pollution in our rivers with run offs from their manure ponds. This is the reason our rivers look brown when it rains. The government do not care, they do not even bother inspecting farms now, they just let them get away with it. Total neglect for our rivers and wildlife, the tories are not fit to be in charge of our wonderful wildlife, woodlands, meadows and sea
71
02/04/2021 07:37:23 0 0
bbc
You do realise that without farmers, we wouldn't have those wonderful meadows you are so keen on?
84
02/04/2021 21:56:48 0 0
bbc
What wonderful meadows? Most of the old traditional biodiverse meadows have been destroyed, enlarged into green deserts of improved grassland, silaged to hell, little plant diversity. Hares leverets, roe deer kids mashed by forage harvesters.

Ground nesting birds, curlews in catastrophic decline mainly from modern pasture management.

Lovely old meadows, where?
72
02/04/2021 07:42:22 1 0
bbc
I used to work for a water company as Area Chemist carrying out chemical analysis of samples to monitor sewage works. One major works was sampled at 10 points every other day, and we did 10 tests on those samples. When the Works Manager retired, I asked him how they disposed of the sludge from their digestor - he said it goes into the final effluent on the days we're not sampling. Still happening?
69
02/04/2021 07:28:27 3 3
bbc
Cut the dominance of livestock farming in major river catchments. In Wales, THREE FARMING POLLUTION INCIDENTS EVERY WEEK. Constant runoff issues, livestock grazing to watercourses, erosion, siltation.
All efforts to rewild, reintroduce native wildlife, eg. beaver resisted by the farming lobby.
Overgrazed Bare hills exacerbate flash flooding, poor biodiversity.
WE DONT NEED FATTY LAMB TO SURVIVE
73
02/04/2021 07:45:24 1 2
bbc
So whoever downvoted thinks it’s ok do you for the farming industry to carry on destroying our wildlife?
74
02/04/2021 08:09:57 0 0
bbc
You really seem to hate farmers...

Where do you propose we get our food if you succeed in getting all the farmers "kicked into touch" as you said in your other post?

I'm in favour of -responsible- farming, preserving wildlife, wild spaces and so on, but you appear to want to save the planet without us on it!

So yes, I'm quite happy to downvote you.
73
02/04/2021 07:45:24 1 2
bbc
So whoever downvoted thinks it’s ok do you for the farming industry to carry on destroying our wildlife?
74
02/04/2021 08:09:57 0 0
bbc
You really seem to hate farmers...

Where do you propose we get our food if you succeed in getting all the farmers "kicked into touch" as you said in your other post?

I'm in favour of -responsible- farming, preserving wildlife, wild spaces and so on, but you appear to want to save the planet without us on it!

So yes, I'm quite happy to downvote you.
76
02/04/2021 08:20:19 0 1
bbc
Thought you had to be a farmer. Make room for wildlife!
77
02/04/2021 08:25:32 0 0
bbc
You should know of all people of course. Cows in a field soon eat all the grass, that’s ok, you open the gate to the next field.
THERE IS NO GATE TO OPEN FOR US.
75
02/04/2021 08:13:45 1 0
bbc
Geoff Brown, alias 'The Local Bore, You Can't Ignore,' writes: This is an absolute disgrace and the sort of data one would expect to receive from so - called 'Third World' countries. If it's not stopped, it will provide the precedent for future pandemics!
74
02/04/2021 08:09:57 0 0
bbc
You really seem to hate farmers...

Where do you propose we get our food if you succeed in getting all the farmers "kicked into touch" as you said in your other post?

I'm in favour of -responsible- farming, preserving wildlife, wild spaces and so on, but you appear to want to save the planet without us on it!

So yes, I'm quite happy to downvote you.
76
02/04/2021 08:20:19 0 1
bbc
Thought you had to be a farmer. Make room for wildlife!
81
02/04/2021 09:34:11 0 0
bbc
You "thought" wrong....

And you've obviuosly -not- read my post properly, have you?

It looks like the mere mention of the word "farm" sends you into a spin!
74
02/04/2021 08:09:57 0 0
bbc
You really seem to hate farmers...

Where do you propose we get our food if you succeed in getting all the farmers "kicked into touch" as you said in your other post?

I'm in favour of -responsible- farming, preserving wildlife, wild spaces and so on, but you appear to want to save the planet without us on it!

So yes, I'm quite happy to downvote you.
77
02/04/2021 08:25:32 0 0
bbc
You should know of all people of course. Cows in a field soon eat all the grass, that’s ok, you open the gate to the next field.
THERE IS NO GATE TO OPEN FOR US.
80
02/04/2021 09:29:55 0 0
bbc
I am not now, and never have been a Farmer - my much missed mother-inlaw used to work for a dairy farmer, delivering milk 40+ years ago, but that's as close as I've been.

But you still haven't answered my question about where you think you'll get your food from, if you kick the farmers into touch- maybe it is easier for you to jump to convenient conclusions than to actually answer?
66
02/04/2021 07:04:18 0 0
bbc
This is fine. It acts as a fertiliser and gives fish something to eat. Stop fussing.
78
02/04/2021 08:27:48 0 1
bbc
Don’t understand delicate diverse rover ecosystems do you. You’re just another member of the ignorant masses.
63
01/04/2021 23:18:16 2 0
bbc
Not "borders on", "is". Time for a few prosecutions!
79
02/04/2021 09:15:37 0 0
bbc
Either that or more productively long term, investment in infrastructure and upstream natural flood reduction measures.
77
02/04/2021 08:25:32 0 0
bbc
You should know of all people of course. Cows in a field soon eat all the grass, that’s ok, you open the gate to the next field.
THERE IS NO GATE TO OPEN FOR US.
80
02/04/2021 09:29:55 0 0
bbc
I am not now, and never have been a Farmer - my much missed mother-inlaw used to work for a dairy farmer, delivering milk 40+ years ago, but that's as close as I've been.

But you still haven't answered my question about where you think you'll get your food from, if you kick the farmers into touch- maybe it is easier for you to jump to convenient conclusions than to actually answer?
83
02/04/2021 13:49:20 0 0
bbc
I’m suggesting reduced agricultural domination, not elimination.
76
02/04/2021 08:20:19 0 1
bbc
Thought you had to be a farmer. Make room for wildlife!
81
02/04/2021 09:34:11 0 0
bbc
You "thought" wrong....

And you've obviuosly -not- read my post properly, have you?

It looks like the mere mention of the word "farm" sends you into a spin!
82
02/04/2021 12:52:02 0 0
bbc
Just one more aspect of UK infrastructure that's demonstrably not fit for purpose. The difference here is that it's NEVER been fit for purpose.
86
02/04/2021 22:02:33 0 0
bbc
They turn a blind eye to sewage infrastructure failings and to the river polluting wildlife destroying modern farming industry.
80
02/04/2021 09:29:55 0 0
bbc
I am not now, and never have been a Farmer - my much missed mother-inlaw used to work for a dairy farmer, delivering milk 40+ years ago, but that's as close as I've been.

But you still haven't answered my question about where you think you'll get your food from, if you kick the farmers into touch- maybe it is easier for you to jump to convenient conclusions than to actually answer?
83
02/04/2021 13:49:20 0 0
bbc
I’m suggesting reduced agricultural domination, not elimination.
71
02/04/2021 07:37:23 0 0
bbc
You do realise that without farmers, we wouldn't have those wonderful meadows you are so keen on?
84
02/04/2021 21:56:48 0 0
bbc
What wonderful meadows? Most of the old traditional biodiverse meadows have been destroyed, enlarged into green deserts of improved grassland, silaged to hell, little plant diversity. Hares leverets, roe deer kids mashed by forage harvesters.

Ground nesting birds, curlews in catastrophic decline mainly from modern pasture management.

Lovely old meadows, where?
68
02/04/2021 07:28:10 0 0
bbc
Did a farmer run over your dog, or something?

And where do you propose to get your food from, if you manage to "kick all the farmers into touch"...
85
02/04/2021 22:00:19 0 0
bbc
You look at farming through rise coloured spectacles me thinks.
82
02/04/2021 12:52:02 0 0
bbc
Just one more aspect of UK infrastructure that's demonstrably not fit for purpose. The difference here is that it's NEVER been fit for purpose.
86
02/04/2021 22:02:33 0 0
bbc
They turn a blind eye to sewage infrastructure failings and to the river polluting wildlife destroying modern farming industry.