Deliveroo flotation price to be at bottom of target range
29/03/2021 | news | business | 138
The food delivery business says it is pricing shares "responsibly" amid “volatile” market conditions.
1
29/03/2021 11:02:36 29 0
bbc
It'll be interesting to see what happens to the share price if and when those who deliver for Deliveroo are classed as employees in the same way as Uber drivers have been .
17
29/03/2021 11:33:31 4 4
bbc
has not done uber much harm - its one market so probably not material. would not invest in either.
38
29/03/2021 12:40:32 0 0
bbc
That's the angle the big investors say they are wary of; that the nigh-inevitable court finding that their staff? are employees.

Perhaps they're waiting for the IPO to flop / the judgement to come, then buy at a discount.

Perhaps they can see there's no profit and no dividends. That would mean an adverse judgement could effectively close the business.
75
29/03/2021 15:05:31 0 0
bbc
Uber drivers are not employees and no court has said or will say that they are. They are 'workers' ie entitled to minimum wage, paid holidays and sick pay. They are not entitled to employment rights such as redundancy and protection against unfair dismissal.
The professional investors already expect Deliveroo riders to be classified as Workers.
2
29/03/2021 11:04:04 4 5
bbc
No thanks I'd rather invest in petrochemicals.
3
29/03/2021 11:08:34 19 2
bbc
I expect that the market is pretty cool upon the listing, a bit like the food when it eventually turns up.
20
29/03/2021 11:36:46 12 0
bbc
I can't believe people are too lazy to even go to the takeaway these days. Went to my local chinese on Saturday and they were queued out with delivery drivers. This with the closure of sports venues is adding up to a serious health problem for the UK
4
29/03/2021 11:09:22 2 0
bbc
waste of money
5
29/03/2021 11:14:55 18 1
bbc
I'd certainly buy shares in a company with a website and a bicycle. Not.
137
30/03/2021 13:53:16 0 0
bbc
They don't even have their own bicycles...
6
29/03/2021 11:19:23 67 8
bbc
So a company with not assets, just an App is somehow worth in the region of £7 billion.
This is simply insane and we are heading for a meltdown worse that DotCom bubble. There is simply so much VC and other money tied up in companies that are worth next to nothing it is bonkers. And then on the other hand Liberty Steel are refused £170 million loose change. At least they make something....
15
29/03/2021 11:31:59 57 1
bbc
There is barely a shred of value in this company. Nothing unique and can be replicated by anyone. Ubereats and Just Eat run the same model so the margins will be tiny forever. No distinguishing factor apart from the advertising money they will have to constantly spend. Should be worth nowhere near a hundred million, let alone 7 billion.
30
29/03/2021 11:58:52 9 1
bbc
Agreed on Deliveroo, however a company the size of Liberty Steel with a $20bn turnover and 35,000 global employees, asking the UK for £170mn bailout, something does not add up.
50
29/03/2021 13:06:09 3 0
bbc
The government scratches its head and wonders why the UK doesn't have any tech giants like the US.

Maybe it could be to do with how we invest, Amazon didn't make a profit for 14 years and is now worth $1 trillion.

OK Deliveroo isn't Amazon, but short term focus of UK investors means we don't support fast growing loss making companies. (As a side note Amazon is a big investor in Deliveroo).
73
29/03/2021 14:55:14 6 1
bbc
It is almost as bad as Bitcon. Perhaps it should be renamed 'Delivercon'. Seem to be an awful lot of ponzi scheme type investments about at the moment!
138
30/03/2021 15:18:19 0 0
bbc
Facebook?
7
29/03/2021 11:20:17 45 4
bbc
And the assets of the business are ????????

Not much so a market valuation based on hope and greed - a bit like the dot com boom

Avoid
18
29/03/2021 11:35:32 26 1
bbc
No matter how much I look at this company, the less I can see why it's worth so much. Dot com bubble companies at least had misguided hope. This is a food taxi app. That's it.
60
29/03/2021 13:53:45 2 0
bbc
The employees. On, no, hang on...
117
29/03/2021 21:32:10 0 0
bbc
The dot COM burst made me redundant, as BT plc shed staff after over selling the thing. If I can't sign or pay for it in real bucks, avoid. This is a hope and a pray, in my humble view.
8
29/03/2021 11:20:19 2 1
bbc
Well yeah...

Put the share price on low, company memberrs have a large number of shares already. People see the share price as good value, purchase a bunch and the share price rises which will give the company stock holders from the start a lot more money if they then sell down the line.

makes sense to me
9
29/03/2021 11:21:28 0 2
bbc
Get on board the likes of starship technologies who hopefully will wipe away the likes of deliveroo away with effeciant delivery bots
10
29/03/2021 11:22:32 21 1
bbc
I am not keen on this "Deliveroo" and "Just Eat" thing...I used to just order off the menu and my curry house would deliver it.

With the above they try and hoik up the prices.

So if they don't deliver it for the same price as the menu, I go and collect it..which is probably more sensible anyway
11
29/03/2021 11:23:33 23 0
bbc
Even with a pandemic surge in business they can't turn a profit.

I think it's dawning on people that it's not a great business.
32
29/03/2021 12:01:59 4 2
bbc
Agreed, look at Ocado it took 15 years to make a profit..
119
29/03/2021 22:39:05 0 0
bbc
In my area Deliveroo is a wasteland. Very few restaurants signed up and nowhere I'd want to order from.

Just Eat and Uber Eats all have more restaurants and takeaways signed up, better selection of food and whatnot. There are also a plethora of similar sites and the enormous chains (Pizza Hut etc.) have direct ordering.

There's no place for Deliveroo. Grotty men on grotty bikes.
12
Ben
29/03/2021 11:24:42 13 3
bbc
Deliveroo is one of many delivery firms. It'll fade and be replaced one day.

As a 27 YO I have no interest in using their services, what's the point? Most places have takeaways within a ten minute walk anyway.
91
29/03/2021 16:02:19 3 1
bbc
"Most places have takeaways within a ten minute walk anyway."

And today's facts pulled out of the air by people who think the whole world is reflected by their view out of the window is...
13
29/03/2021 11:26:01 19 1
bbc
And we wonder why the UK is sooooooo FAT ...
90
29/03/2021 16:01:13 3 0
bbc
Sitting on comments sections...
14
29/03/2021 11:30:38 7 1
bbc
It's like the initial rise of online travel with Web 1.0, vis a vis Last Minute and so on.

Disruptors enter the market, but some consolidation will be coming.

Too many delivery service companies fighting over the same pie/pizza/pad thai.

They've all changed the delivery food service for good, but like taxis, it's an expense that's reliant on consumer confidence.
6
29/03/2021 11:19:23 67 8
bbc
So a company with not assets, just an App is somehow worth in the region of £7 billion.
This is simply insane and we are heading for a meltdown worse that DotCom bubble. There is simply so much VC and other money tied up in companies that are worth next to nothing it is bonkers. And then on the other hand Liberty Steel are refused £170 million loose change. At least they make something....
15
29/03/2021 11:31:59 57 1
bbc
There is barely a shred of value in this company. Nothing unique and can be replicated by anyone. Ubereats and Just Eat run the same model so the margins will be tiny forever. No distinguishing factor apart from the advertising money they will have to constantly spend. Should be worth nowhere near a hundred million, let alone 7 billion.
31
29/03/2021 12:00:16 9 1
bbc
I’m more surprised at the fact that the company has never made a profit. Doubt they ever will, yet are still worth this much money. Madness.
16
29/03/2021 11:32:02 9 1
bbc
These company's are a bit like a parasitic invasion.
The takeaways here have put up the prices fairly markedly to cover the fees of them, even if you do not use the service or get delivered.
The takeaway owners in towns could set up there own collective service, that would be financially and environmentally better while being probably fair with employed staff. Indeed a London thing.
89
29/03/2021 16:00:51 2 1
bbc
"The takeaway owners in towns could set up there own collective service" said without any thought about what that would entail. How many people do you hire? Do you hire five for a Thursday? What if the day is busier - the scabs who order from you will be giving you zero stars as soon as they can smash their fingers into the Google review box. Not enough demand, people paid to sit on the bench.
1
29/03/2021 11:02:36 29 0
bbc
It'll be interesting to see what happens to the share price if and when those who deliver for Deliveroo are classed as employees in the same way as Uber drivers have been .
17
29/03/2021 11:33:31 4 4
bbc
has not done uber much harm - its one market so probably not material. would not invest in either.
7
29/03/2021 11:20:17 45 4
bbc
And the assets of the business are ????????

Not much so a market valuation based on hope and greed - a bit like the dot com boom

Avoid
18
29/03/2021 11:35:32 26 1
bbc
No matter how much I look at this company, the less I can see why it's worth so much. Dot com bubble companies at least had misguided hope. This is a food taxi app. That's it.
19
29/03/2021 11:35:45 6 1
bbc
£8.8 billion.

For an Excel spreadsheet booking system and a couple of (hired) riders on (push) bikes....

Mind you.

Positive that the UK is now starting to create these 'tech' companies and it's not just the USA that is laughing all the way to the bank.
3
29/03/2021 11:08:34 19 2
bbc
I expect that the market is pretty cool upon the listing, a bit like the food when it eventually turns up.
20
29/03/2021 11:36:46 12 0
bbc
I can't believe people are too lazy to even go to the takeaway these days. Went to my local chinese on Saturday and they were queued out with delivery drivers. This with the closure of sports venues is adding up to a serious health problem for the UK
121
29/03/2021 22:55:00 1 2
bbc
I don't like this shut-in delivery culture we've fostered in the UK. It's lazy and it's exploitative, subsidised by people who are paid nearly nothing and can't be at home.

For one thing, no able bodied car owner should ever be getting groceries delivered. Sainsbury's wouldn't deliver during first lockdown unless you were on the government CEV list - quite right and they should bring that back.
21
29/03/2021 11:38:44 1 3
bbc
The restaurants should offer a percentage collection discount, that way customer and restaurant both save.
22
29/03/2021 11:42:56 7 1
bbc
A lot of restaurants do. There's three that I use in my local area that give you 10% off if you order directly on their website. Same delivery cost as Just Eat, but no 50p service fee per order, so you save 10% + 50p. Pretty fair, split the difference, customer saves and the business makes more money from not giving Just Eat etc. their 15-30% cut.
21
29/03/2021 11:38:44 1 3
bbc
The restaurants should offer a percentage collection discount, that way customer and restaurant both save.
22
29/03/2021 11:42:56 7 1
bbc
A lot of restaurants do. There's three that I use in my local area that give you 10% off if you order directly on their website. Same delivery cost as Just Eat, but no 50p service fee per order, so you save 10% + 50p. Pretty fair, split the difference, customer saves and the business makes more money from not giving Just Eat etc. their 15-30% cut.
23
29/03/2021 11:43:00 24 5
bbc
So Fund Managers are worried about Investments if workers rights change..........

Not bothered about the welfare of the venerable and low paid workers then?

ONLY WORRIED ABOUT PROFITS AND DIVIDENDS!

Says it all then doesn't it!!!
29
29/03/2021 11:57:02 17 8
bbc
Why would they be worried about workers' rights? That's not their job.
88
29/03/2021 15:59:04 2 2
bbc
If they had to evaluate every single company they'd never invest in anything. Any company you can spin to have negatives. So as a society we say what we do or do not want, and that makes companies profitable or not profitable, and that's that in turn will affect investment. It's very simple really.
24
29/03/2021 11:50:52 46 0
bbc
How is a loss making company with 800 employees, a website and 50,000 self employed zero hour riders valued at £8bn.
Just shows the market makes up these numbers to help them feather their own nests
25
29/03/2021 11:51:03 3 1
bbc
If investors suddenly grow a conscious to workers rights we see one of the UKs biggest retailers value plunder
26
29/03/2021 11:51:24 19 2
bbc
I’m more concerned that a company with no assets, isn’t profitable and would struggle to pay minimum wage/holiday pay etc to its employees is worth over £7 Billion! It’s crazy

One day soon the bubble will pop on companies like Deliveroo, Uber et al, and it will not be pretty in the slightest
108
jay
29/03/2021 18:32:48 2 1
bbc
You do realise Tesla has never made a profit? Facebook took a while working out how to even make money. Share prices doing rather well on both mentioned I am sure Deliveroo will do the same. If you dont understand it dont invest leave it to those that do.
115
29/03/2021 20:33:06 1 1
bbc
So they lied to Companies House in their audited accounts that they have £130 million in assets ???
27
29/03/2021 11:54:36 10 0
bbc
Personally I wouldn't invest, the pandemic lockdown surely marks the peak of "delivery dining" and they still haven't made a profit during this time. Plus there is the Uber judgement which surely will lead to the riders being reclassified as workers.

But then I'm a cautious investor, good luck to those who do invest.
28
29/03/2021 11:55:20 27 0
bbc
Uber, Justeat, Deliveroo, AirBnB, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram all follow the same business model, they don't produce/own anything but they allow others to on their platform for a fee, and all have the same theme in paying little tax because of it. Figuring out how to tax these fairly should be the next big step for funding public services.
23
29/03/2021 11:43:00 24 5
bbc
So Fund Managers are worried about Investments if workers rights change..........

Not bothered about the welfare of the venerable and low paid workers then?

ONLY WORRIED ABOUT PROFITS AND DIVIDENDS!

Says it all then doesn't it!!!
29
29/03/2021 11:57:02 17 8
bbc
Why would they be worried about workers' rights? That's not their job.
6
29/03/2021 11:19:23 67 8
bbc
So a company with not assets, just an App is somehow worth in the region of £7 billion.
This is simply insane and we are heading for a meltdown worse that DotCom bubble. There is simply so much VC and other money tied up in companies that are worth next to nothing it is bonkers. And then on the other hand Liberty Steel are refused £170 million loose change. At least they make something....
30
29/03/2021 11:58:52 9 1
bbc
Agreed on Deliveroo, however a company the size of Liberty Steel with a $20bn turnover and 35,000 global employees, asking the UK for £170mn bailout, something does not add up.
15
29/03/2021 11:31:59 57 1
bbc
There is barely a shred of value in this company. Nothing unique and can be replicated by anyone. Ubereats and Just Eat run the same model so the margins will be tiny forever. No distinguishing factor apart from the advertising money they will have to constantly spend. Should be worth nowhere near a hundred million, let alone 7 billion.
31
29/03/2021 12:00:16 9 1
bbc
I’m more surprised at the fact that the company has never made a profit. Doubt they ever will, yet are still worth this much money. Madness.
11
29/03/2021 11:23:33 23 0
bbc
Even with a pandemic surge in business they can't turn a profit.

I think it's dawning on people that it's not a great business.
32
29/03/2021 12:01:59 4 2
bbc
Agreed, look at Ocado it took 15 years to make a profit..
33
29/03/2021 12:02:27 15 3
bbc
I've done Deliveroo and not only was the pay not particularly good, there were no perks or benefits associated with the job. No restaurant discounts, no vouchers, nothing.

The only real "perk" was that it was good exercise but you can do that at the weekend without feeling the pressure of getting to a house 3 miles away in 5 minutes.
34
29/03/2021 12:03:23 12 1
bbc
Who is going to invest in a company that hasn't made a profit in 10 years?
47
29/03/2021 12:57:16 6 5
bbc
Amazon didn't make a profit for 14 year after their IPO, they seem to be doing well now
35
29/03/2021 12:14:22 22 0
bbc
This looks like the founder of a worthless loss making company wanting to cash in his chips selling to a load of suckers and getting ready to get out as soon as possible and at the same time keeping the majority of voting rights. AVOID
36
29/03/2021 12:33:07 6 1
bbc
What nonsense from Deliveroo, when you have "significant interest" you price the IPO high, Pricing at the bottom of your range is one step off having your IPO pulled!
The reality is Deliveroo not only are having to sell low but are also not able to get as much sold as planned. Poor Will will have to stay "paper rich" unless he can sucker more mugs into taking on his risk while he keeps the rewards
37
29/03/2021 12:36:31 2 4
bbc
slave labors
1
29/03/2021 11:02:36 29 0
bbc
It'll be interesting to see what happens to the share price if and when those who deliver for Deliveroo are classed as employees in the same way as Uber drivers have been .
38
29/03/2021 12:40:32 0 0
bbc
That's the angle the big investors say they are wary of; that the nigh-inevitable court finding that their staff? are employees.

Perhaps they're waiting for the IPO to flop / the judgement to come, then buy at a discount.

Perhaps they can see there's no profit and no dividends. That would mean an adverse judgement could effectively close the business.
39
MVP
29/03/2021 12:44:36 8 1
bbc
With such uncertainty regarding workers' rights the sensible way forward would be to postpone this listing.

I anticipate that the brokers are more focused on their commission than the interests of the shareholders and their judgement may be clouded here.
44
29/03/2021 12:55:27 4 2
bbc
Will Shum, Amazon and all other early investors are in a sell now or lose it all. They face the perfect storm. Employee's getting rights, the end of covid and people moving off take aways into going out instead.
Reality is if they couldn't make money during COVID they will never as COVID was their perfect market environment!

This one is going to Zero and Will doesn't want to own it when it does
40
29/03/2021 12:46:59 2 0
bbc
Has anyone seen a naked emperor riding a bicycle?

Perhaps we all have...
41
29/03/2021 12:51:45 0 1
bbc
The market cannot be described as volatile right now. It has traded within a pretty tight band since the new year. Sure there are a couple of bigger changes both ways but I would hardly think this justifies 'volatile'. Basically just trying to deflect away from an IPO which is not gaining enough interest to justify a higher price.
42
29/03/2021 12:52:34 7 0
bbc
A grand way to lose your money. I shall steer well clear.
43
29/03/2021 12:52:45 6 0
bbc
My advice, to anyone with a SIPP, would be to check the funds you are invested in and see if they have put any of your money into this on any other delivery app. Then make up your own mind as to whether you want to gamble.

FaceBook, Twitter and the like sell advertising - that often makes money.

Deliveroo seems to just sell cyclists' sweat...no profits yet...
39
MVP
29/03/2021 12:44:36 8 1
bbc
With such uncertainty regarding workers' rights the sensible way forward would be to postpone this listing.

I anticipate that the brokers are more focused on their commission than the interests of the shareholders and their judgement may be clouded here.
44
29/03/2021 12:55:27 4 2
bbc
Will Shum, Amazon and all other early investors are in a sell now or lose it all. They face the perfect storm. Employee's getting rights, the end of covid and people moving off take aways into going out instead.
Reality is if they couldn't make money during COVID they will never as COVID was their perfect market environment!

This one is going to Zero and Will doesn't want to own it when it does
45
29/03/2021 12:55:42 5 0
bbc
Last week, a number of fund managers said they would reject the listing amid concerns over workers' rights.

If and a very big "if" the Deliveroo workers can emulate the Uber drivers over pay and conditions of employment, then I suspect that their shares will become almost worthless.

Investors need to know the return on their purchases look sound. Gamblers are used to losing and take risks!
46
29/03/2021 12:56:46 16 2
bbc
go and get your own food: it aint difficult
87
29/03/2021 15:56:00 6 7
bbc
You out the fields near your house catching and skinning the rabbits to go with your home grown potatoes yeah? And I'm sure you have no processed food in your freezer. Or did you set a bar of how lazy you want to be, and that's the bar you'll judge everyone else by?
34
29/03/2021 12:03:23 12 1
bbc
Who is going to invest in a company that hasn't made a profit in 10 years?
47
29/03/2021 12:57:16 6 5
bbc
Amazon didn't make a profit for 14 year after their IPO, they seem to be doing well now
76
29/03/2021 15:23:06 3 1
bbc
Amazon aren't a comparable example.

Amazon have always had assets (stock, buildings, vehicles, and IP later on) to offset losses against. Their physical stock and infrastructure is what gave them the ability to service their markets better than competitors.

Deliveroo have only an app and a name.

It's got 'Myspace' written all over it: if the name fades, they have nothing but debt.
48
29/03/2021 12:57:30 20 2
bbc
How can a company that has never once made a profit in its entire trading history be worth c. £8 billion?

Big customer base, but if it can't be monetised to turn a profit due to the volume of competition, the big customer base is a millstone, not an asset.

If they are forced to provide further benefits for workers, as seems likely, it will increase costs and so could be disastrous.
51
KL
29/03/2021 13:13:54 5 1
bbc
It depends why it's never made a profit. It could be it has strong fundamentals but just spends everything on R&D and expansion - the Amazon way. Although it does seem like Deliveroo is laying people off so maybe not in this case.
49
29/03/2021 13:02:50 2 1
bbc
Fools rush in.
6
29/03/2021 11:19:23 67 8
bbc
So a company with not assets, just an App is somehow worth in the region of £7 billion.
This is simply insane and we are heading for a meltdown worse that DotCom bubble. There is simply so much VC and other money tied up in companies that are worth next to nothing it is bonkers. And then on the other hand Liberty Steel are refused £170 million loose change. At least they make something....
50
29/03/2021 13:06:09 3 0
bbc
The government scratches its head and wonders why the UK doesn't have any tech giants like the US.

Maybe it could be to do with how we invest, Amazon didn't make a profit for 14 years and is now worth $1 trillion.

OK Deliveroo isn't Amazon, but short term focus of UK investors means we don't support fast growing loss making companies. (As a side note Amazon is a big investor in Deliveroo).
48
29/03/2021 12:57:30 20 2
bbc
How can a company that has never once made a profit in its entire trading history be worth c. £8 billion?

Big customer base, but if it can't be monetised to turn a profit due to the volume of competition, the big customer base is a millstone, not an asset.

If they are forced to provide further benefits for workers, as seems likely, it will increase costs and so could be disastrous.
51
KL
29/03/2021 13:13:54 5 1
bbc
It depends why it's never made a profit. It could be it has strong fundamentals but just spends everything on R&D and expansion - the Amazon way. Although it does seem like Deliveroo is laying people off so maybe not in this case.
61
29/03/2021 13:56:07 2 1
bbc
A good point and perfectly valid; But... how much R&D does Deliveroo need? Amazon does high tech stuff (a space program...) so it's easy to see where R&D goes... not so much for what's essentially a bicycle courier agency. Expansion shouldn't cost the earth, since there's little physical investment; it's only advertising: gig workers aren't paid unless they're 'gigging', and no physical premises.
52
29/03/2021 13:16:54 14 1
bbc
BT undervalued because it still has to make good on a pension pot short fall
Delivroo over valued because it has no employee pension pot, does not pay holiday or sick pay, or NI contributions or tax .. etc.
Says it all really a loss making business with few assetts valued to compensate the original investors (brokers/banks/etc) at the expense of the gullible new ones.
122
29/03/2021 23:01:04 0 2
bbc
BT is actually worth something and it is backed by tangible assets. It owns copper and fibre cabling, large fleets of vehicles, bricks and mortar property, TV production equipment, computers, and all the rest. Employee benefits are also good.

Deliveroo is just an app probably running on someone else's cloud services. The bikes aren't company property, the riders aren't employees.
53
29/03/2021 13:17:05 2 1
bbc
P.S. If the lack of workers rights is unpalatable it's worth asking your pension fund manager or bank if they've ever invested in places where workers rights don't really exist? China, Dubai...

High time we had a policy where every equity/fund/financial vehicle is graded on ethics - including their tax regime, with annual published/monitored scores, and help us decide where to put our money.
64
29/03/2021 14:13:55 3 2
bbc
You can call me a b%^&*d if you like, but I prefer to say pragmatist; if I don't invest in something that could make me enough money to retire a year or two earlier, someone else will.

So it has been since time immemorial, so it will always be: there are exploiters and the exploited. The world isn't fair so I'll always keep my meagre nest egg on the rich side of the imbalance, not the righteous.
131
OwO
30/03/2021 08:09:13 0 0
bbc
All well and good, but if it's not illegal and has a high return then all moral quandaries will fly out the window.
54
29/03/2021 13:20:36 1 5
bbc
Disappointing to hear David Cumming ( AVIVA ) describing exploited workers being awarded basic rights such as sick and holiday pay as a "risk". Would have hoped Aviva's ESG standards - and therefore their reason for not participating - were somewhat higher. Interesting that ESG is not mentioned at all on the front page of the Aviva Pension website.
66
29/03/2021 14:24:48 4 0
bbc
Absolute rot.
What he's saying is that the very real chance of Deliveroo having to run the business ethically is a huge risk to the stupid float price they've set which is only sustainable if Deliveroo keep paying less than living wage and don't give sick/holiday pay etc.
He'd be delighted if Deliveroo gave their workers all the necessary employee benefits and then priced their IPO accordingly.
55
29/03/2021 13:24:06 3 7
bbc
Does an excellent job and employs many young people who will not be able to find other jobs.
74
29/03/2021 15:03:07 2 2
bbc
I don't think that they employ that many people. Most of the people actually doing the delivering are part of the magical "gig economy".
97
29/03/2021 16:42:27 1 1
bbc
That's what they said about factories employing 8 year-old in the 19th century.
56
29/03/2021 13:34:08 7 1
bbc
This is a zero sum game, the profit margins are tiny for all involved, I wouldn't invest in it in any form, be that getting a job with them, buying shares or (unless there was really no reasonable alternative) using them to deliver for my business.

This feels like the current investors finding themselves a way out of an unprofitable game by getting others (the public) to take on the company.
57
29/03/2021 13:38:34 5 1
bbc
Wouldn’t the ‘Dragons’ laugh this one out of the door?
98
29/03/2021 16:42:38 2 0
bbc
They might ask what is the barrier to entry for competitors? I don't see one.
58
29/03/2021 13:42:21 2 3
bbc
How do we know this is fair valuation.
What do the social influencers say.
What does the twittersphere value it at.
How many facebok likes have they got.
Does anyone know how valuations are made these days.
59
29/03/2021 13:48:28 4 2
bbc
This is being ramped nearly as much as Lastminute.con 22 years ago in the dot.con bubble. That ended with the sale of the business a few years later at a massive loss to all the little private investors, who got fleeced. I wonder where Deliveroo will be in 3 years time? Back in the hands of private venture capitalists, to the detriment of all the private investors? Time will tell. Be warned.
7
29/03/2021 11:20:17 45 4
bbc
And the assets of the business are ????????

Not much so a market valuation based on hope and greed - a bit like the dot com boom

Avoid
60
29/03/2021 13:53:45 2 0
bbc
The employees. On, no, hang on...
51
KL
29/03/2021 13:13:54 5 1
bbc
It depends why it's never made a profit. It could be it has strong fundamentals but just spends everything on R&D and expansion - the Amazon way. Although it does seem like Deliveroo is laying people off so maybe not in this case.
61
29/03/2021 13:56:07 2 1
bbc
A good point and perfectly valid; But... how much R&D does Deliveroo need? Amazon does high tech stuff (a space program...) so it's easy to see where R&D goes... not so much for what's essentially a bicycle courier agency. Expansion shouldn't cost the earth, since there's little physical investment; it's only advertising: gig workers aren't paid unless they're 'gigging', and no physical premises.
132
OwO
30/03/2021 08:11:27 0 0
bbc
Their only thing is brand recognition. They don't provide a different service to competitors, but need to be seen as the most recognisable so when people are hungry they use the app. That doesn't come cheap, and is likely where their revenue has gone thus far instead of R&D (though there is R&D, I'm sure, on how people interact with the app etc).
62
29/03/2021 13:59:59 20 1
bbc
I've never used one of these delivery apps. A few months back I was just about to place an order for a take-away and then I realised W.T.F am I doing, why don't I just go on the providers website and order it. So I did, for about 15% less.
120
29/03/2021 22:40:57 0 2
bbc
I've had situations where the takeaway has been "Closed" or "Not currently accepting orders" on these sites... phone them and they are wide open as normal.

I've saved as much as £5 in the past by phoning direct rather than going through an app. The online prices are often hiked and then the app takes its cut (and previously also charged card fees before that was banned).
63
29/03/2021 14:08:28 6 1
bbc
who can forget the Aston Martin flotation?i told my friend to hang back and buy them at a cheaper level than £19 flotation price.i never in my wildest dreams could see them losing 95% of their value.when are the underwriters held to account in situations like these?worked in the City for 35yrs and met many admirable people,but when it comes to these flotations i have no faith in the pricing model
72
29/03/2021 14:57:17 3 0
bbc
No retail investor in their right mind puts money into an IPO - you are buying at a time and at a price of the seller's own choosing.
53
29/03/2021 13:17:05 2 1
bbc
P.S. If the lack of workers rights is unpalatable it's worth asking your pension fund manager or bank if they've ever invested in places where workers rights don't really exist? China, Dubai...

High time we had a policy where every equity/fund/financial vehicle is graded on ethics - including their tax regime, with annual published/monitored scores, and help us decide where to put our money.
64
29/03/2021 14:13:55 3 2
bbc
You can call me a b%^&*d if you like, but I prefer to say pragmatist; if I don't invest in something that could make me enough money to retire a year or two earlier, someone else will.

So it has been since time immemorial, so it will always be: there are exploiters and the exploited. The world isn't fair so I'll always keep my meagre nest egg on the rich side of the imbalance, not the righteous.
65
29/03/2021 14:23:29 3 4
bbc
The government scratches its head and wonders why the UK doesn't have any tech giants like the US.

Maybe it could be to do with how we invest, Amazon didn't make a profit for 14 years and is now worth $1 trillion.

OK Deliveroo isn't Amazon, but short term focus of UK investors means we don't support fast growing loss making companies. (As a side note Amazon is a big investor in Deliveroo).
67
29/03/2021 14:31:31 2 2
bbc
We should not be supporting a business model like Deliveroo. It drives food waste, plastic waste, and rips off restaurants by charging 30 percent on an order! Add to that the lack of respect for workers' rights in creating hollow jobs, and you can see what an environmental and human impact it has. Let's support sustainable business instead!!!
54
29/03/2021 13:20:36 1 5
bbc
Disappointing to hear David Cumming ( AVIVA ) describing exploited workers being awarded basic rights such as sick and holiday pay as a "risk". Would have hoped Aviva's ESG standards - and therefore their reason for not participating - were somewhat higher. Interesting that ESG is not mentioned at all on the front page of the Aviva Pension website.
66
29/03/2021 14:24:48 4 0
bbc
Absolute rot.
What he's saying is that the very real chance of Deliveroo having to run the business ethically is a huge risk to the stupid float price they've set which is only sustainable if Deliveroo keep paying less than living wage and don't give sick/holiday pay etc.
He'd be delighted if Deliveroo gave their workers all the necessary employee benefits and then priced their IPO accordingly.
65
29/03/2021 14:23:29 3 4
bbc
The government scratches its head and wonders why the UK doesn't have any tech giants like the US.

Maybe it could be to do with how we invest, Amazon didn't make a profit for 14 years and is now worth $1 trillion.

OK Deliveroo isn't Amazon, but short term focus of UK investors means we don't support fast growing loss making companies. (As a side note Amazon is a big investor in Deliveroo).
67
29/03/2021 14:31:31 2 2
bbc
We should not be supporting a business model like Deliveroo. It drives food waste, plastic waste, and rips off restaurants by charging 30 percent on an order! Add to that the lack of respect for workers' rights in creating hollow jobs, and you can see what an environmental and human impact it has. Let's support sustainable business instead!!!
68
29/03/2021 14:32:03 13 1
bbc
We should not be supporting a business model like Deliveroo. It drives food waste, plastic waste, and rips off restaurants by charging 30 percent on an order! Add to that the lack of respect for workers' rights in creating hollow jobs, and you can see what an environmental and human impact it has. Let's support sustainable business instead!!!
86
29/03/2021 15:51:39 5 5
bbc
No restaurant is forced into using it. If it was that bad they wouldn't. It finds them new business. In terms of food waste when I order I get just what I ordered. When I have to buy a whole lettuce to get one slice for my burger, that's waste potential!
69
29/03/2021 14:48:34 4 0
bbc
Tried to sell at the top of the market and mis timed it.
70
29/03/2021 14:52:49 4 0
bbc
its a red herring this company deliveroo is not going to make a profit when the corna virus finishes it will start to lose money
125
29/03/2021 23:08:23 0 1
bbc
People are only using these services because they can't eat out, and up to today the rules on leaving home were vague at best.

Demand for this sort of system will go over a cliff once the pandemic is officially over and we open up in full.
71
29/03/2021 14:53:57 2 8
bbc
I can't believe so many people eat garbage. Pizza is just fats and carbohydrates. Should be taxed at £10 a slice!
85
29/03/2021 15:50:18 2 2
bbc
Let's comment on your Diamond White habit while we're here.
63
29/03/2021 14:08:28 6 1
bbc
who can forget the Aston Martin flotation?i told my friend to hang back and buy them at a cheaper level than £19 flotation price.i never in my wildest dreams could see them losing 95% of their value.when are the underwriters held to account in situations like these?worked in the City for 35yrs and met many admirable people,but when it comes to these flotations i have no faith in the pricing model
72
29/03/2021 14:57:17 3 0
bbc
No retail investor in their right mind puts money into an IPO - you are buying at a time and at a price of the seller's own choosing.
109
jay
29/03/2021 18:38:07 0 1
bbc
Take it you never participated in the last big public IPO in CDX? Went up from 5p to 20p first day still around 10p. I am sorry but you know very little about current IPOs
6
29/03/2021 11:19:23 67 8
bbc
So a company with not assets, just an App is somehow worth in the region of £7 billion.
This is simply insane and we are heading for a meltdown worse that DotCom bubble. There is simply so much VC and other money tied up in companies that are worth next to nothing it is bonkers. And then on the other hand Liberty Steel are refused £170 million loose change. At least they make something....
73
29/03/2021 14:55:14 6 1
bbc
It is almost as bad as Bitcon. Perhaps it should be renamed 'Delivercon'. Seem to be an awful lot of ponzi scheme type investments about at the moment!
83
29/03/2021 15:39:20 3 0
bbc
If current growth continues Deliveroo will soon be delivering 30 meals per day to every household in the country! BUY! BUY! BUY! Then very quickly SELL! SELL! SELL!
55
29/03/2021 13:24:06 3 7
bbc
Does an excellent job and employs many young people who will not be able to find other jobs.
74
29/03/2021 15:03:07 2 2
bbc
I don't think that they employ that many people. Most of the people actually doing the delivering are part of the magical "gig economy".
102
29/03/2021 17:00:28 1 1
bbc
Which is an important part of the economy for business and the people in it.
1
29/03/2021 11:02:36 29 0
bbc
It'll be interesting to see what happens to the share price if and when those who deliver for Deliveroo are classed as employees in the same way as Uber drivers have been .
75
29/03/2021 15:05:31 0 0
bbc
Uber drivers are not employees and no court has said or will say that they are. They are 'workers' ie entitled to minimum wage, paid holidays and sick pay. They are not entitled to employment rights such as redundancy and protection against unfair dismissal.
The professional investors already expect Deliveroo riders to be classified as Workers.
47
29/03/2021 12:57:16 6 5
bbc
Amazon didn't make a profit for 14 year after their IPO, they seem to be doing well now
76
29/03/2021 15:23:06 3 1
bbc
Amazon aren't a comparable example.

Amazon have always had assets (stock, buildings, vehicles, and IP later on) to offset losses against. Their physical stock and infrastructure is what gave them the ability to service their markets better than competitors.

Deliveroo have only an app and a name.

It's got 'Myspace' written all over it: if the name fades, they have nothing but debt.
77
29/03/2021 15:16:53 1 1
bbc
good news, we will maintain our position as the most obese people in Europe (4th in the world, so
more hard work ahead)
78
29/03/2021 15:29:09 3 1
bbc
You know democracy is working when you can buy a share in slave trading.
80
29/03/2021 15:34:35 4 1
bbc
Don't exaggerate, more like serfs than slaves!
84
29/03/2021 15:49:32 1 2
bbc
You are a disgusting insult to those who were taken from their homes, enslaved, beaten and hung up on hooks through their flesh if they disobeyed. Vs someone who chooses to ride a bike to deliver a burger. You may be able to question the ethics of Deliveroo, but don't use slavery victims in your petty comments.
79
29/03/2021 15:31:22 4 1
bbc
Another IPO, usually a sign that a fall in the stock market is on the way. My money is on October, the exuberance of the end of lockdown will be over and we will start worrying about the chances of another Covid winter.
129
OwO
30/03/2021 08:03:25 2 0
bbc
IPOs happen constantly, they are not a "sign" of anything.
78
29/03/2021 15:29:09 3 1
bbc
You know democracy is working when you can buy a share in slave trading.
80
29/03/2021 15:34:35 4 1
bbc
Don't exaggerate, more like serfs than slaves!
82
29/03/2021 15:36:33 1 1
bbc
A serf was a slave. Read your Domesday Book!
81
29/03/2021 15:28:58 3 4
bbc
This is pretty much as I expected!! They are a good buy for the future!! As long as the marxists don't try and mess up their employment contracts!!!
94
29/03/2021 16:38:12 2 1
bbc
Are you Donald Trump?
80
29/03/2021 15:34:35 4 1
bbc
Don't exaggerate, more like serfs than slaves!
82
29/03/2021 15:36:33 1 1
bbc
A serf was a slave. Read your Domesday Book!
73
29/03/2021 14:55:14 6 1
bbc
It is almost as bad as Bitcon. Perhaps it should be renamed 'Delivercon'. Seem to be an awful lot of ponzi scheme type investments about at the moment!
83
29/03/2021 15:39:20 3 0
bbc
If current growth continues Deliveroo will soon be delivering 30 meals per day to every household in the country! BUY! BUY! BUY! Then very quickly SELL! SELL! SELL!
114
29/03/2021 19:27:35 1 0
bbc
Well that would equate to over 300 billion orders a year (just in UK)....!

I'd be buy buy buy at that projection.
78
29/03/2021 15:29:09 3 1
bbc
You know democracy is working when you can buy a share in slave trading.
84
29/03/2021 15:49:32 1 2
bbc
You are a disgusting insult to those who were taken from their homes, enslaved, beaten and hung up on hooks through their flesh if they disobeyed. Vs someone who chooses to ride a bike to deliver a burger. You may be able to question the ethics of Deliveroo, but don't use slavery victims in your petty comments.
92
29/03/2021 16:08:29 2 1
bbc
Aren't we being too touchy this afternoon?

The point that labour is being exploited by whatever means and in whatever way is always a valid argument. The fact that you disassociate cheap labour with slavery suggests that you don't understand what slavery is, don't know that it is happening today and it isn't just a history thing. Virtue signalling is not enough.
71
29/03/2021 14:53:57 2 8
bbc
I can't believe so many people eat garbage. Pizza is just fats and carbohydrates. Should be taxed at £10 a slice!
85
29/03/2021 15:50:18 2 2
bbc
Let's comment on your Diamond White habit while we're here.
68
29/03/2021 14:32:03 13 1
bbc
We should not be supporting a business model like Deliveroo. It drives food waste, plastic waste, and rips off restaurants by charging 30 percent on an order! Add to that the lack of respect for workers' rights in creating hollow jobs, and you can see what an environmental and human impact it has. Let's support sustainable business instead!!!
86
29/03/2021 15:51:39 5 5
bbc
No restaurant is forced into using it. If it was that bad they wouldn't. It finds them new business. In terms of food waste when I order I get just what I ordered. When I have to buy a whole lettuce to get one slice for my burger, that's waste potential!
95
29/03/2021 16:38:44 2 1
bbc
Sorry, but your anecdotal story isn't scientific evidence.
The bottom line is that the "environmental impacts [of food delivery apps] include the significant generation of waste and its high carbon footprints."

Source Sustainability Journal July 2020
46
29/03/2021 12:56:46 16 2
bbc
go and get your own food: it aint difficult
87
29/03/2021 15:56:00 6 7
bbc
You out the fields near your house catching and skinning the rabbits to go with your home grown potatoes yeah? And I'm sure you have no processed food in your freezer. Or did you set a bar of how lazy you want to be, and that's the bar you'll judge everyone else by?
99
29/03/2021 16:43:42 4 2
bbc
Antony takes things a bit too literally.
135
30/03/2021 09:36:16 1 0
bbc
This comment is absolutely spot on, must have hit a nerve with a few to get so many down votes.
23
29/03/2021 11:43:00 24 5
bbc
So Fund Managers are worried about Investments if workers rights change..........

Not bothered about the welfare of the venerable and low paid workers then?

ONLY WORRIED ABOUT PROFITS AND DIVIDENDS!

Says it all then doesn't it!!!
88
29/03/2021 15:59:04 2 2
bbc
If they had to evaluate every single company they'd never invest in anything. Any company you can spin to have negatives. So as a society we say what we do or do not want, and that makes companies profitable or not profitable, and that's that in turn will affect investment. It's very simple really.
16
29/03/2021 11:32:02 9 1
bbc
These company's are a bit like a parasitic invasion.
The takeaways here have put up the prices fairly markedly to cover the fees of them, even if you do not use the service or get delivered.
The takeaway owners in towns could set up there own collective service, that would be financially and environmentally better while being probably fair with employed staff. Indeed a London thing.
89
29/03/2021 16:00:51 2 1
bbc
"The takeaway owners in towns could set up there own collective service" said without any thought about what that would entail. How many people do you hire? Do you hire five for a Thursday? What if the day is busier - the scabs who order from you will be giving you zero stars as soon as they can smash their fingers into the Google review box. Not enough demand, people paid to sit on the bench.
13
29/03/2021 11:26:01 19 1
bbc
And we wonder why the UK is sooooooo FAT ...
90
29/03/2021 16:01:13 3 0
bbc
Sitting on comments sections...
12
Ben
29/03/2021 11:24:42 13 3
bbc
Deliveroo is one of many delivery firms. It'll fade and be replaced one day.

As a 27 YO I have no interest in using their services, what's the point? Most places have takeaways within a ten minute walk anyway.
91
29/03/2021 16:02:19 3 1
bbc
"Most places have takeaways within a ten minute walk anyway."

And today's facts pulled out of the air by people who think the whole world is reflected by their view out of the window is...
84
29/03/2021 15:49:32 1 2
bbc
You are a disgusting insult to those who were taken from their homes, enslaved, beaten and hung up on hooks through their flesh if they disobeyed. Vs someone who chooses to ride a bike to deliver a burger. You may be able to question the ethics of Deliveroo, but don't use slavery victims in your petty comments.
92
29/03/2021 16:08:29 2 1
bbc
Aren't we being too touchy this afternoon?

The point that labour is being exploited by whatever means and in whatever way is always a valid argument. The fact that you disassociate cheap labour with slavery suggests that you don't understand what slavery is, don't know that it is happening today and it isn't just a history thing. Virtue signalling is not enough.
130
OwO
30/03/2021 08:04:10 0 0
bbc
They're paid the minimum wage, in work they do voluntarily. Comparing this to slavery is pathetic.
93
29/03/2021 16:26:12 4 0
bbc
How you treat your staff matters in the end.
81
29/03/2021 15:28:58 3 4
bbc
This is pretty much as I expected!! They are a good buy for the future!! As long as the marxists don't try and mess up their employment contracts!!!
94
29/03/2021 16:38:12 2 1
bbc
Are you Donald Trump?
86
29/03/2021 15:51:39 5 5
bbc
No restaurant is forced into using it. If it was that bad they wouldn't. It finds them new business. In terms of food waste when I order I get just what I ordered. When I have to buy a whole lettuce to get one slice for my burger, that's waste potential!
95
29/03/2021 16:38:44 2 1
bbc
Sorry, but your anecdotal story isn't scientific evidence.
The bottom line is that the "environmental impacts [of food delivery apps] include the significant generation of waste and its high carbon footprints."

Source Sustainability Journal July 2020
96
29/03/2021 16:40:44 2 1
bbc
I'm starting up an investment company with a view to an IPO three years out. I don't think we'll have any assets, not will we be in an office - we will have a nice shiny website and AI phone agents. I doubt we'll ever turn a profit and we won't have any IP. Let me know if you would like to invest in Squanderoo.
55
29/03/2021 13:24:06 3 7
bbc
Does an excellent job and employs many young people who will not be able to find other jobs.
97
29/03/2021 16:42:27 1 1
bbc
That's what they said about factories employing 8 year-old in the 19th century.
57
29/03/2021 13:38:34 5 1
bbc
Wouldn’t the ‘Dragons’ laugh this one out of the door?
98
29/03/2021 16:42:38 2 0
bbc
They might ask what is the barrier to entry for competitors? I don't see one.
123
29/03/2021 23:04:23 0 0
bbc
There are a veritable plethora of similar apps and sites out there. Not only Just Eat and Uber Eats either - there are various much smaller ones you've barely heard of.
87
29/03/2021 15:56:00 6 7
bbc
You out the fields near your house catching and skinning the rabbits to go with your home grown potatoes yeah? And I'm sure you have no processed food in your freezer. Or did you set a bar of how lazy you want to be, and that's the bar you'll judge everyone else by?
99
29/03/2021 16:43:42 4 2
bbc
Antony takes things a bit too literally.
133
OwO
30/03/2021 08:11:49 2 0
bbc
How exactly is he wrong?
100
29/03/2021 16:44:25 2 1
bbc
Partying like it’s 1999 - and we all know what happened next.