Covid: UK death rate 'no longer Europe's worst' by winter
19/03/2021 | news | health | 6,874
Six other countries were worse affected during the second wave of the pandemic, according to ONS figures.
1
19/03/2021 12:20:10 9 7
bbc
Expert analysis reports incoming.
16
19/03/2021 12:25:07 8 12
bbc
Well, as a starter for 10, how can “England rank seventh on this list (7.8%) with the UK eighth (7.2%)”. Either report as 4 separate countries or as the UK. But not both; that’s double counting.
22
19/03/2021 12:25:52 0 1
bbc
They've started early....
60
19/03/2021 12:29:01 3 4
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Johnson continually kicks the need for a Public Inquiry into the long grass so won't be getting expert analysis anytime soon
2
19/03/2021 12:21:45 274 71
bbc
Standard biology has it that if one species grows in numbers to a level too much for the area they inhabit to cope with, nature seeks to rebalance things. For all the havoc Covid has caused, it seems to be one of those rebalancing means for our nigh on 8 billion population.
Agreed but the PC brigade, the brexiteers and the woke won't accept a single death and the government would prefer to lock us all up because they are so terrified of negative headlines. Removed
42
19/03/2021 12:27:36 32 42
bbc
Thanks for the info Charles Darwin. I am sure the thousands who have lost loved ones will be most reassured that nature has been rebalanced.
130
19/03/2021 12:35:01 18 23
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As long as it wasn't you or yours who died I assume???
164
19/03/2021 12:38:57 25 27
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What a cold bleak world you must inhabit.
193
19/03/2021 12:41:52 27 7
bbc
Right, and global population is how many now, and how many was it 12 months ago?
Population increase outstrips covid deaths significantly
198
19/03/2021 12:42:19 6 10
bbc
I dont think the numbers support this. We have a population of over 60b and (although every death is a tragedy) the numbers therefore could be considered a rounding error.
227
xlr
19/03/2021 12:44:24 10 7
bbc
It doesn't work like that unfortunately. Large death rates result in rebound population growth. It took Europe only 200 years (10 generations) to fully recover from half of it being wiped out in the Black Death, before which it was vastly overpopulated due to a warm period.

On the other hand, if everyone from now had as few children as Korea or Japan, humanity would be extinct by 2400.
365
19/03/2021 12:56:46 3 1
bbc
Humans have overcome this crude ecosystem balance model for aeons. We change our environment and alter the balance with ingenuity (fire, cooking, shelter, travel etc). That's why there is so many of us. But that doesn't fit your limited thinking so you'll ignore that.
547
19/03/2021 13:07:41 3 0
bbc
Spot on. Unfortunately, in planetary terms it has barely scratched the surface.
665
19/03/2021 13:14:45 8 1
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Yes. Callous though it may seem, the pandemic is nothing compared to the catastrophe of over-population and resulting climate change
19/03/2021 14:18:29 1 2
bbc
Nope. The carrying capacity of an environment will ultimately determine the population of any species, but beyond that, standard biology would tell you that female reproduction rate is the main factor controlling population. So if nature wanted to reduce the global human population, it would come up with a disease that attacked young, breeding age females, not elderly, ill people.
19/03/2021 14:44:10 2 1
bbc
Standard biology does not factor in higher intelligence self awareness of the species in question.

Humans are far from the pre-programmed species that are described by standard biology.
19/03/2021 14:53:51 1 1
bbc
"Standard biology", whatever that is, has no such thing, you're thinking of New Age BS...
19/03/2021 15:04:47 0 3
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Since did Standard biology come out of a Chinese lab?
19/03/2021 15:09:30 1 1
bbc
Needs to have been far more deadly to impact the population. This is barely a pandemic in historical terms.
19/03/2021 15:25:40 0 1
bbc
That is the most ridiculous comment I've ever read. Two words to type into your computer : zoonotic and illness. Read and learn.
19/03/2021 15:29:34 1 1
bbc
Who is this 'nature' that you personify as an agent? Gaia? God? You are free to make teleological arguments, but they are hardly standard biology.
19/03/2021 15:41:09 0 1
bbc
im all in agreement with this. Even the 2 world wars impacted this. imagine if all these people hadnt died and with average family birth rates of 2.4 children in europe until this century the world population could now be 10 billion, way to many for the world to support.
19/03/2021 15:45:55 0 0
bbc
Not rebalanced enough. We need Covid-21.
LH
19/03/2021 17:09:55 0 0
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... 40% of which live in TWO countries!!!!!
19/03/2021 17:14:26 0 1
bbc
Rubbish, the world has never been a better place in recorded history, it is Malthusians like you, the Greens, Covid Cultists, Climate Changers who are obsessed with the numbers on the planet. Until Covid lock-downs world mortality rates, poverty, birth-rates, all going down. Thanks to lock-down mortality, poverty etc wil go up. 100 times more will die due to lock-dawn than covid says UN.
19/03/2021 18:01:15 1 0
bbc
Not even close to stopping the population increase
let alone reversing it.
Tragedy for many
but less than 3 million deaths worldwide
is statistically negligible.
19/03/2021 18:20:31 0 0
bbc
So are wars do you think we should have one of them as well Dominic.
19/03/2021 18:23:58 0 0
bbc
Not doing a very good job, then. One person out of every 4,000, dead.
19/03/2021 19:14:35 0 1
bbc
At last! A post that is not an over-sensationalized / an over-dramatic one: a sensible comment based on fact. Well said!
19/03/2021 19:25:02 1 0
bbc
Covid related deaths will be merely a blip in the upward spiral of global population growth. Though the levels of ignorance displayed by so many during this pandemic doesn't bode well for when a real killer emerges from the forests.
19/03/2021 22:06:16 0 0
bbc
OK Charles...
3
19/03/2021 12:22:11 454 17
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Hopefully we as a country are on the road to recovery.
37
19/03/2021 12:27:05 298 181
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Hopefully we are due to the success of the vaccine roll out.

For a change the Tories didn't play politics and implemented the idea of giving single doses to as many as possible even though it was Tony Blair's idea.

Too many politicians would have discarded an idea proposed by a political opponent.
41
19/03/2021 12:27:28 25 14
bbc
More selective use of data, the last 5 years is not a great amount to compare against. Adjusted for age and population 2020 was the 35th worst year in the last 50 for deaths i.e. there were 34 worse years...
19/03/2021 13:42:50 3 1
bbc
Seven idiots hope that we are not!!
19/03/2021 15:11:08 1 0
bbc
Yep - as long as the numpties don't think it's all over and start behaving like - numpties!
19/03/2021 15:13:01 0 0
bbc
Well said, I notice that some have thumbed down I hope Meh and Ginge didn't.
19/03/2021 15:16:05 1 1
bbc
Hopefully so.

So as Britain seems to be vaccinating its way out of the pandemic it might be a bit early to compare deaths in the UK with those of Europen countries that seem to have talked their way into a 3rd wave of infections, hospital admissions and deaths.
There are going to be a lot of EU citizen paying with their lives for the stupidity of Macron and Von der Leyen.
19/03/2021 15:47:45 0 0
bbc
Have you ever seen the play, "Waiting for Godot" per chance?

Have a look.
4
19/03/2021 12:22:16 4 11
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My imagination, or was this story written with a thinly disguised note of schadenfreude?
30
19/03/2021 12:26:36 7 3
bbc
Your imagination. You ascribe your own motivations onto others.
33
19/03/2021 12:26:46 0 1
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No
153
19/03/2021 12:37:26 0 2
bbc
You can't come on here using foreign words like that. The Brexiteers will have a fit.
5
19/03/2021 12:22:35 13 26
bbc
"UK's death rate 7% above normal in 2020"

Someone perhaps should inform the BBC that we are in the middle of a pandemic.
15
19/03/2021 12:25:03 10 4
bbc
You've obviously not read this through.
121
19/03/2021 12:34:16 3 1
bbc
I think the BBC are aware of this. They are just reporting what the ONS have said. That's what they do, you know, report things.
554
19/03/2021 13:04:43 1 0
bbc
Did you read the article ?
6
19/03/2021 12:22:44 25 30
bbc
Got vaccinations right
Got everything else wrong
People pay the price and taxes
(£34bn for track-n-trace and millions for Nightingale hospitals that treated 23)
10
19/03/2021 12:24:30 26 13
bbc
So you would have been happier if the Nightingale hospitals were full?
29
19/03/2021 12:26:31 5 4
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Bet you couldn't wait for another chance to have a pop at a job no doubt you would run a mile from along with the majo6of our nation
67
Kew
19/03/2021 12:29:21 8 3
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So you think having a furlough scheme was wrong? Guess you didn't have to use it then.
102
19/03/2021 12:31:52 7 2
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Well, that’s one hell of a tick to have in the plus column. We also lead the world (with the US) in analysing and developing treatments, and analysing the structure of the virus. And so will save far more lives around the world than we will have tragically lost. Rule Britannia (not that we are allowed to write that).
205
19/03/2021 12:42:52 5 2
bbc
Nightingale hospitals were used to treat others who didn't have the virus. Harrogate was used for scans and such to keep patients out of the hospital environments, and it was more than the 23 you think were treated..
7
19/03/2021 12:23:10 1356 325
bbc
Let’s not forget that every country has recorded its mortality data related to COVID differently.

Just thought I’d get this in before the inevitable comparisons are made between us and other countries.

And let’s not forget the relative transparency between our figures and those of other less transparent nations
20
19/03/2021 12:25:40 879 1624
bbc
You think our government is transparent? I honestly don't know how people can be so wilfully blind.
26
Jim
19/03/2021 12:26:08 214 26
bbc
This article is comparing excess deaths, not covid deaths, they are doing it, because deaths are directly comparable, did you read the article?
72
19/03/2021 12:29:44 187 128
bbc
That is a vital point. Only Belgium had a more stringent approach to making themselves look as bad as possible. Being overly harsh on ourselves does chime with the BBC Britain’s shameful past and broken present narrative.
73
19/03/2021 12:29:52 186 2
bbc
That's the whole point of this ONS report.
It is not comparing reported Covid figures but all deaths above the average.
It goes some way towards eliminating the different ways of recording Covid deaths.
97
19/03/2021 12:31:26 152 80
bbc
You are right, I had a friend with terminal cancer, died last month with COVID, cause of death recorded as COVID.... crazy, do other countries count that?
173
xlr
19/03/2021 12:40:17 8 26
bbc
All the same it's not going to do Drakeford or Welsh Labour much of a disservice. Are Welsh people more healthy, older or more obese than English ones? And can differences in recording or population density fully account for the difference?

My guess to both questions is 'no'.
China, Iran, Bolsonarostan (Brazil), etc are indeed hiding their dead, but you don't by any chance claim that we're one of the best performing countries, are you? Removed
226
19/03/2021 12:44:23 117 183
bbc
Grasping some jingoistic pride out of how our fatality figures are better collected than other "Johnny Foreigners" - cringeworthy xenophobic delusional nonsense!
233
19/03/2021 12:45:08 85 83
bbc
Spot on. And let’s not forget that it’s quite clear that many, particularly older peoples, deaths are being recorded as due to Covid-19 when that manifestly isn’t their cause.
305
19/03/2021 12:52:02 47 60
bbc
Our government has been far from transparent throughout this entire farce.
311
19/03/2021 12:52:41 75 1
bbc
These data are excess deaths, so deaths from any cause, not just Covid. The article explains this if you read it and explains that the excess deaths numbers are the ONLY sensible way that you can compare countries.
333
19/03/2021 12:54:19 54 4
bbc
Lets not forget this is comparison of total deaths, year on year.

So how different countries record Covid mortality is utterly irrelevant.
Correct, for instance Belgium has the highest number of Covid deaths per capita of any nation on earth

The UK is 4th

Belgium counts every single death where Covid is mentioned on the Cert

The UK only counts those within 28 days so out official total is sadly 125,000

According to Govt figures if you count every case where Covid is mentioned (as Belgium does) then our total is 148,000
534
19/03/2021 13:06:59 12 6
bbc
This is exactly right. Covid related deaths in countries such as Brazil Mexico and others are hugely under reported because a lot of deaths aren't recorded as covid related when they are.
588
19/03/2021 13:09:18 1 3
bbc
You've already made your comparisons with that statement.

But it would be reasonable at least to compare most 'civilised' countries ?
606
19/03/2021 13:10:41 6 14
bbc
What's not transparent about 126,000 deaths?
So youre saying UK number is accurate and the total is OK?
Taiwan has 10 covid deaths in 12 months. Not 100,1000, 10,000, 100,000.. Just 10.
Multiple other SE Asia countries have far lower deaths new Zealand, ozz, S korea, Japan, Singapore etc.
834
19/03/2021 13:25:18 6 3
bbc
Don't forget to stock up on straws to clutch at the next time you go shopping.
836
19/03/2021 13:25:25 22 3
bbc
1. Having had the disease does not make you immune, hence the need for BJ to get the vaccination
2. He's getting it now as it the time for his age group - can't jump queue!
3. The govt didn't publish the contract award. Process was legal the final part was not completed, publishing the award notices.

Stop spouting crap that merely fits the optics that you want!

PS not a Tory supporter - never!
938
19/03/2021 13:31:01 1 10
bbc
Except f someone is tested positive for covid in the UK but dies 28 days later, they are not registered as a covid death, even if they do not leave hospital!
940
19/03/2021 13:31:17 5 7
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"Just thought I'd get in a bit of jingoistic abuse of other countries - calling them sinister and corrupt - before anyone is able to make up their minds for themselves. Remember, if you don't agree with me, you must be 'biased' and a Remainer who hates our country, and shouldn't be allowed on the BBC!" - Mondaymother
8
MVP
19/03/2021 12:23:29 28 26
bbc
And yet there are still people who deny that COVID is real.

These are shocking statistics and shows just how wrong the government was in dithering over lockdown last year.
14
19/03/2021 12:24:59 24 25
bbc
Yet still lower that the death rate per capita in the early 2000s despite the big bad scarry virus.

Get a grip government and free us from these ridiculous and unnecessary restrictions.
44
19/03/2021 12:27:40 4 4
bbc
People are denying it is real. They are simply questioning our response. Please stop misrepresenting their opinion.
2
19/03/2021 12:21:45 274 71
bbc
Standard biology has it that if one species grows in numbers to a level too much for the area they inhabit to cope with, nature seeks to rebalance things. For all the havoc Covid has caused, it seems to be one of those rebalancing means for our nigh on 8 billion population.
Agreed but the PC brigade, the brexiteers and the woke won't accept a single death and the government would prefer to lock us all up because they are so terrified of negative headlines. Removed
85
Jim
19/03/2021 12:30:43 44 9
bbc
These deaths happened with lockdowns, what do you think would have happened without them? ??
114
19/03/2021 12:33:21 59 9
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"Agreed but the PC brigade, the brexiteers and the woke won't accept a single death"

Such bigoted generalist and simply ridiculous statements suggest more a voice of insanity, than reason
354
19/03/2021 12:55:42 1 3
bbc
Yeah because initiating lockdown hasn’t brought any negative headlines has it ??
407
19/03/2021 13:00:14 5 2
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By the way, an update for you, the woke and the PC brigade are the same people. And a Venn diagram of them and the brexiters would have very little overlap! Also the rebalancing idea is frankly nonsense.
564
19/03/2021 13:08:43 1 2
bbc
What the government is trying to protect its population
What ever next
603
19/03/2021 13:10:11 0 1
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Nonsense
788
19/03/2021 13:23:07 3 4
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And another idiotic comment, surely it is the remoaners that will not accept anything this government does or says?
VoR
19/03/2021 13:37:15 3 1
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That's plainly false. No one is suggesting that we can't accept a low number of deaths. However, the number of deaths was high and the data shows would have been way higher without lockdowns. (Don't forget that hospital treatment would have become unavailable for most cases if the case count had continued to rise, so case fatality rate would have risen drastically as well as case count.)
19/03/2021 13:46:14 3 0
bbc
Brexiteers! WTD has that got to do with covid?
19/03/2021 13:50:16 4 1
bbc
"Agreed but the PC brigade, the brexiteers and the woke won't accept a single death"

Hang on.....the PC brigade, AND the Brexiteers AND the woke? What, they're all working together now, are they? I thought the PC and the woke was the same thing? And aren't the Brexiteers completely opposed to what the PC or Woke lot think? Or are you just too thick to know what any if it means??
19/03/2021 14:14:51 3 2
bbc
You really do need to get help with your obsession regarding Brexit.
The government would far rather see everyone back at work, the economy fully opened & expanding to meet future challenges.
Why in your opinion would the government wish to see lockdown continue indefinitely?

Go on; please tell us...
6
19/03/2021 12:22:44 25 30
bbc
Got vaccinations right
Got everything else wrong
People pay the price and taxes
(£34bn for track-n-trace and millions for Nightingale hospitals that treated 23)
10
19/03/2021 12:24:30 26 13
bbc
So you would have been happier if the Nightingale hospitals were full?
80
19/03/2021 12:30:12 3 9
bbc
Nightingales were a farce, had we needed them (which thank God we didn't) we had nobody to staff them.
96
b
19/03/2021 12:31:26 2 5
bbc
They could never be full so could never been staffed. They were built to give a good news story, I'd have been happier if they weren't built at all and the money went towards staffing the existing hospitals.
11
bbc
BBC not impressed that the UK is finally not the worst in Europe for deaths. Removed
Don’t worry, Ms Doomsberg will find some bad news somewhere. Removed
401
19/03/2021 12:59:55 12 27
bbc
We are still the worst for total deaths, just not increasing as quickly as some others now.
586
19/03/2021 13:09:14 19 21
bbc
Utter nonsense, claiming that the BBC has an agenda when you are using the figures quoted in the BBC report! Think for a second about what this makes you look like?
Eh?

Do you think that is reason to celebrate?

Remember that the UK sadly has the highest number of total deaths of any European nation

The 4th highest number of deaths per capita of any nation on earth

The worst performing economy of any major nation worldwide

Sad days indeed for the UK but Jon here thinks its best to try to gloat and points score
927
19/03/2021 13:29:57 21 4
bbc
Also baffles me that nobody mentions that Germany (who the media praised non stop last year) has a MUCH higher death rate on any average year than the UK.

Germany avg deaths/yr over last 5 yrs - 930k
UK avg deaths/yr over last 5yrs - 605k

Their population is 24% larger than the UK's, but they have 54% more deaths every year.

Based on pop size Germany averages 180k more deaths than they should.
963
19/03/2021 13:32:58 3 7
bbc
Try looking at worldometers. You will see bozo can agree we are top of the world. Unfortunately as the highest death rate per million!
19/03/2021 13:40:56 7 0
bbc
The BBC is just part of the British media that only likes to report bad news and sensationalize it to the nth degree, the same as all other TV companies and newspapers. Its how journalists and reporters are trained, as demanded by their bosses who like to think that's all that attracts the public's attention.
19/03/2021 13:43:42 2 1
bbc
BBC needs to be scrapped
MrT
19/03/2021 13:52:00 2 1
bbc
Left-centred BBC are never impressed with this Conservative government. It is the BBC political bias again
19/03/2021 14:02:48 1 1
bbc
You're just a fool
19/03/2021 14:25:21 1 0
bbc
but you are impressed? by very poor performance? why? do you always aim to be among the bottom performing? strange objective.
19/03/2021 14:36:59 1 0
bbc
Your comment is based on what actual statement BBC made?
12
19/03/2021 12:24:35 3 11
bbc
That's a lie
This is all very well but the crucial question is when did Nicola Sturgeon know about this? Removed
55
19/03/2021 12:28:33 11 2
bbc
She never knew about it. But if she did, it was definitely two months later. And her husband never discussed it with her, not once.
110
19/03/2021 12:33:09 1 1
bbc
If she can refer to her notes, consult her diary, look up the detail or whatever. I counted at least 40 of these in her replies. Poor memory for someone in a position of so much power . . . . . . .
123
19/03/2021 12:34:22 1 1
bbc
She's already forgotten!
8
MVP
19/03/2021 12:23:29 28 26
bbc
And yet there are still people who deny that COVID is real.

These are shocking statistics and shows just how wrong the government was in dithering over lockdown last year.
14
19/03/2021 12:24:59 24 25
bbc
Yet still lower that the death rate per capita in the early 2000s despite the big bad scarry virus.

Get a grip government and free us from these ridiculous and unnecessary restrictions.
5
19/03/2021 12:22:35 13 26
bbc
"UK's death rate 7% above normal in 2020"

Someone perhaps should inform the BBC that we are in the middle of a pandemic.
15
19/03/2021 12:25:03 10 4
bbc
You've obviously not read this through.
1
19/03/2021 12:20:10 9 7
bbc
Expert analysis reports incoming.
16
19/03/2021 12:25:07 8 12
bbc
Well, as a starter for 10, how can “England rank seventh on this list (7.8%) with the UK eighth (7.2%)”. Either report as 4 separate countries or as the UK. But not both; that’s double counting.
52
19/03/2021 12:28:23 0 2
bbc
Correct
66
19/03/2021 12:29:20 3 4
bbc
Are you Diane Abbott?
84
19/03/2021 12:30:39 3 5
bbc
Its not double counting, it's what's known in data modelling as consolidating.

Glad I could help. now what are my bonus questions?
17
19/03/2021 12:25:09 136 19
bbc
To be honest I was expecting it to be a lot lot worse.
31
19/03/2021 12:26:40 62 112
bbc
Same death rate as WW2 not enough
19/03/2021 13:43:01 3 0
bbc
More people staying at home = fewer deaths due to accidents.
Plus there will be a minority of people who have died with covid who would have died within the past year anyway so those deaths are technically not excess deaths (on the timescale of the past year at least)
kh
19/03/2021 16:16:52 2 1
bbc
Why were you expecting it to be worse? because of your impression of current events from the media??
LH
19/03/2021 17:13:16 2 3
bbc
What? A lot worse than death???
19/03/2021 18:29:00 1 2
bbc
Tell that to the families affected and stop encouraging misinformation.
18
19/03/2021 12:25:28 614 293
bbc
I'm surprised by that 7% - with all the BBC's hysterical reporting I assumed it was 20% plus. And a lot of those excess death will be people who would have died this winter or next winter from something else.
39
19/03/2021 12:27:18 517 239
bbc
And dont forget 80% of covid deaths people had another issue that would have killed them withing a year or two.
49
19/03/2021 12:28:00 40 16
bbc
Also it's more selective use of data, the last 5 years is not a great amount to compare against. Adjusted for age and population 2020 was the 35th worst year in the last 50 for deaths i.e. there were 34 worse years...
56
xlr
19/03/2021 12:28:37 16 38
bbc
Excess deaths increased by 20% last year. 19.6% (England), to be precise.
You do realise that 7% is a massive number in real terms. Mothers, fathers, sons and daughters. And all you care about is how you digest the info from the BBC. If you don’t like the BBC.. get off here and go play in the traffic Removed
88
19/03/2021 12:31:05 71 29
bbc
Don't you understand what excess deaths means? Is it that hard to comprehend that this is above what is normal? Those who 'would have died' still would have without the pandemic so wouldn't be in excess of expected deaths. Very callous and cold attitude you've shown here.
143
19/03/2021 12:36:49 38 4
bbc
It's always been about overwhelming the NHS - without lockdowns that's what would have happened. I think 7% is high, but it could have been a lot lot worse.
150
Jim
19/03/2021 12:37:05 48 15
bbc
Everybody dies, your argument is non sensical. "Oh he was going to die anyway so what does it matter if it's now" applies to everyone in the world. ??
183
19/03/2021 12:40:59 9 7
bbc
Those excess deaths are not those people who would have died this winter. They weren't already at death's door, they typically had at least 5-10 years of good life left that the virus deprived them of.
222
TF
19/03/2021 12:27:17 11 6
bbc
Youre not allowed to say such things. It is illegal to have any view other than this is a catastrophe and that everyone who has passed away would have been around for another 60 years.
261
19/03/2021 12:47:47 4 6
bbc
So compassionate - not

People like you make me feel sick
296
19/03/2021 12:51:03 2 0
bbc
Is this reporting of the 7 % figures also "hysterical"? If so why are you using it this time as gospel but all previous BBC reporting was "hysterical" - looks like this number suits your biases!
302
19/03/2021 12:51:52 1 0
bbc
Correct. Around 10,000 people die each WEEK in the UK so no great shakes considering the pandemic.
457
19/03/2021 12:53:49 3 3
bbc
Makes one wonder if shutting down the economy was justified
555
19/03/2021 13:05:19 3 0
bbc
the actual raw figure is around 15%. last year 604,000 people died, this year 695,000.

This 7% figure is a statistically derived comparison, which is age standardised, and used to compare different populations. Because the UK has a relatively old population, it normalises that 15% down to 7% by undercounting the old people.

The BBC didnt understand this, and have left out the context.
592
VoR
19/03/2021 13:09:53 1 0
bbc
No. It's a misconception to say that a lot of them would have died from something else. Also, the excess deaths here are in the under 65s, and are not the Covid deaths. For example, the 7 percent would have been higher if road traffic accidents were not well down on normal levels.
632
19/03/2021 13:12:42 1 2
bbc
You need to check the Tory rags for hysterical reporting. The BBC are just giving you the facts that the increase in deaths was 7%, which is a huge figure when you consider lower traffic deaths, no flu epidemic etc, and reduced contact within the population. Excess Covid deaths amount to 125,000 people which is a far too large a number!
803
19/03/2021 13:23:42 0 0
bbc
That's the spirit.
19/03/2021 13:39:49 1 3
bbc
Do you not understand the concept of excess deaths? More deaths, in the year, than would have been expected based on the 5 year rolling average. 7% is a high figure. It would be easier to understand if it were a number, rather than a %. Perhaps the number of EXCESS deaths is so high (in excess of 100,000) that the BBC is too frightened to publish it.
19/03/2021 14:12:34 0 0
bbc
Clearly Yorkshireman doesn’t understand the concept of excess deaths.
19
Kew
19/03/2021 12:25:39 89 44
bbc
So many words used by the BBC to hide away the simple fact that Britain's rate wasn't the worse, or even in the top five, despite all the claims (i.e. lies) by the left-wing media that it is worse here than anywhere in Europe.
58
19/03/2021 12:28:57 19 53
bbc
You're just obsessed with Brexit. I bet you like the new Crime and Justice Bill as well .
59
19/03/2021 12:28:58 6 10
bbc
do you live under a stone ?
62
19/03/2021 12:29:04 8 9
bbc
completely agree - grossly skewed and negative reporting
81
19/03/2021 12:30:14 8 4
bbc
The UK has been very stringent regards recording I’m doubtful that many other countries have been as able or rigorous
109
19/03/2021 12:33:09 6 6
bbc
Look if we had remained in the EU this wouldn't have happened.
19/03/2021 15:20:48 0 1
bbc
It's not over yet: rates are climbing once again now that schools have gone back and the intellectually challenged are socialising once again. Welcome to wave 3!
19/03/2021 15:35:59 1 1
bbc
I think you mean 'worst', but that's what comes from never reading anything beyond the Daily Express. Revealing your ignorance doesn't do your false case any favours.
19/03/2021 23:16:40 0 0
bbc
For a long time, UK deaths, as a proportion of the population, was the worst in the world.
7
19/03/2021 12:23:10 1356 325
bbc
Let’s not forget that every country has recorded its mortality data related to COVID differently.

Just thought I’d get this in before the inevitable comparisons are made between us and other countries.

And let’s not forget the relative transparency between our figures and those of other less transparent nations
20
19/03/2021 12:25:40 879 1624
bbc
You think our government is transparent? I honestly don't know how people can be so wilfully blind.
211
19/03/2021 12:43:19 52 271
bbc
I find it hard to also believe that boris johnson IS JUST GETTING HIS JAB NOW? your telling us the head of the uk has waited this long? oh and it just happens to be a vaccine that is making people hesitent..yeh right!!!!
243
19/03/2021 12:46:10 48 65
bbc
Just two words for you to ponder regarding your post - TONY BLAIR
344
19/03/2021 12:41:50 74 22
bbc
Compared with other countries our government is quite good at transparency. The problem we have is the inflated stories reported by the news media just for the dramatic effect rather than balanced reviews. We a country we are inherently self critical.
379
19/03/2021 12:57:52 60 26
bbc
You want to try living in other countries if you think that way ! Whilst far from ideal our Governments have always been much more transparant than say France, Germany, Spain et al .........
406
19/03/2021 13:00:14 45 3
bbc
These are not Govt figures. Maybe you should spend a bit more time learning about the methodology and governance of the UK's independent Office for National Statistics and a bit less reading conspiracy websites and your social media echo chamber.
443
19/03/2021 12:51:46 19 46
bbc
But why are you surprised ? These uneducated naive fools put JOHNSON into power !
511
19/03/2021 12:58:39 14 40
bbc
The only transparent thing about them is their lies !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
525
VoR
19/03/2021 13:06:57 11 10
bbc
The ONS is. But I agree, the government is not.
714
19/03/2021 13:18:07 23 6
bbc
You think our government have lied about the covid figures? i honestly don't know how people can be so wilfully stupid!
716
Rob
19/03/2021 13:18:09 14 24
bbc
I can't understand the down votes you've recieved as this government is very poor at anything related to transparency or truth. The more common aspect of a Politician I'm afraid and we vote for them! World beating, well prepared, over the worst, never short of PPE and don't start me on oven ready!
718
nfn
19/03/2021 13:18:40 12 4
bbc
Our figures are not manipulated by the government. Unlike the Chinese or Russians.
724
19/03/2021 13:19:08 6 5
bbc
Totally transparent. Why do you think otherwise?
875
19/03/2021 13:27:04 17 0
bbc
And why are people like you so willing to NOT believe them? That's why looking at excess death stats is useful - you can't exactly fiddle them as dead is dead regardless of cause.
997
19/03/2021 13:36:03 5 9
bbc
Defies belief that anyone can see anything our government does as 'transparent'!! HMG blocks any kind of scrutiny of any kind and the Beeb no longer takes them to task over the many dismal failures with the Covid response and the £billions lost in economic output due to Brexit. Gaslit folk don't seem to want an honest govt with integrity they seem to prefer to be duped!
21
19/03/2021 12:25:42 14 6
bbc
What it shows is we have the best health service, we keep people alive when in other countries they wouldn’t be here.
Something like this is then devastating to the vey poorly people.
95
19/03/2021 12:31:14 6 1
bbc
Interesting idea. Certainly demonstrable by the lower Covid deaths in many poor countries where only the fit survive to older age
JSS
19/03/2021 13:36:36 1 0
bbc
I don't think it shows that. The health service provides good value for money but it needs more funding to provide the same quality as in other countries. Just look at death rates from Cancer to provide a comparison with other countries
https://ecis.jrc.ec.europa.eu/
UK survival rate looks to be about 52% European Average about 58%
1
19/03/2021 12:20:10 9 7
bbc
Expert analysis reports incoming.
22
19/03/2021 12:25:52 0 1
bbc
They've started early....
23
19/03/2021 12:25:56 645 127
bbc
Have we lost the ability to report actual information? In this instance I think a % is quite unhelpful. How many is normal and what was the outcome of the year in numbers so we know roughly how many extra died? How does that compare to the last 10 years worst year?

Half the reason people are so confused is that only half the information needed to understand something is actually reported
65
19/03/2021 12:29:18 264 42
bbc
Look further back than the 5yr ave. & the age adjusted total mortality rate for 2020 was only the 9th highest since 2000.
(The 2020 data was provisional, but if you want to follow the link to the main 1938-2020 database it was updated 8/3 and is identical, so can be considered complete)
https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathsintheukfrom1990to2020
75
19/03/2021 12:29:56 55 14
bbc
The BBC are poor at statistics.
135
19/03/2021 12:35:43 101 54
bbc
I disagree. A percentage is very helpful.

The way covid has been reported, and the lockdowns enforced, you'd be forgiven for thinking this is killing people in the millions, that death rates are several 100% above normal.

In reality, 7% increase in death rates really is just noise.

A reminder that life is impermanent, covid or no covid.

We need to get on with life.
155
19/03/2021 12:37:40 53 24
bbc
This is the problem with ALL reporting on covid. Sage are also brilliant at comparing for only the last 5 years, showing graphs with absolutely no context. It is a total charade, smoke and mirrors.
157
19/03/2021 12:37:44 4 36
bbc
So bigger countries always look to be doing worse because more excess deaths
166
19/03/2021 12:39:17 52 13
bbc
A 7% increase on the expected number of deaths is approximately 45,000 which is of course far too more deaths, but is much lower than those attributed to Covid-19
185
19/03/2021 12:41:03 7 4
bbc
Normal is easily interpreted when you consider the context that its being compared with pre to post covid19, I'd say anyone that died form covid19 or lack of medical assistance because covid19 shut down their treatment is considered not normal and represented as "extra" deaths due to pandemic related infections and admin failures to cope.
187
19/03/2021 12:41:18 12 2
bbc
Well said AT2018.

Have a look at the graph here:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1111804/weekly-deaths-in-england-and-wales/

Shows weekly average death rate going back (5) years in black. The average follows the expected pattern.
229
19/03/2021 12:44:27 31 15
bbc
I was saying to friends last summer that you need to wait until year end figures are published to find the true figures, and that they'd be lower.
Et Voila!!
100,000 is Government spin.
235
19/03/2021 12:45:11 17 9
bbc
I really hate the use of the term "normal" or "expected".

You have averages, but being above average and being abnormal are not the same thing. In any normally distributed data set, half of the data points are above average.

The main take away - death in 2020 was not very much worse than in any other year.
254
19/03/2021 12:47:08 7 21
bbc
When you know people who have died after 3 weeks in an induced coma my comment would be - who cares if people are confused.
276
19/03/2021 12:49:58 3 0
bbc
These would be the seasonally adjusted figures up to 18 Dec, comparing all extra deaths as a percentage against the yearly average. Other countries overtook the UK by the years end did include figures from the 2nd wave. I would be interested to know exactly how many deaths occurred in care and residential settings in actual numbers and how many more was that as compared with 2019?
299
19/03/2021 12:51:16 12 6
bbc
This is quite deliberate. Confused people are easier to scare.
308
19/03/2021 12:52:10 4 0
bbc
if they gave us the numbers, personally all I would want to do is work out the percentage. They have saved me the bother.
325
19/03/2021 12:53:36 6 2
bbc
This is actual information. It's jus that the BBC doesn't report it in such a way that we can actually make sense of what it means in context. A link to the report itself would be nice.
405
19/03/2021 13:00:04 9 5
bbc
Basically how covid has been reported should be part of any enquiry into the governments handling of the whole pandemic. The whole focus on reporting has been to scare people into believing the worse case scenarios. The reporting of any death within 28 days of a positive test as being due to Covid is so misleading. No wonder we in the UK look worse than most other European nations.
485
19/03/2021 12:50:49 4 3
bbc
Yes, the people writing the article did not understand the statistics. Last year 604,000 people died, this year 694,000. an increase of ~15%.

The 7% figure is age standardised, so looks less because the excess deaths were concentrated in old people. its a highly misleading figure, presented without the context it needs. really terrible reporting
558
19/03/2021 13:08:22 8 3
bbc
Thankfully impact of C19 on the average numbers seems to be so far minimal although that is small comfort if a loved one of you has died of it.
What also is clear that if no measures were taken to limit the spread of the disease the number of deaths would be very much higher.
634
19/03/2021 13:12:54 3 0
bbc
Looks like the headline figure has magically gone and changed to "we're not as bad as X".
745
19/03/2021 13:20:48 2 0
bbc
That’s modern ‘news’ - Never mind the facts, feel the narrative.
24
19/03/2021 12:25:59 124 28
bbc
650,000 deaths per year. A 7% increase is 45,500 extra deaths. Is this huge for a pandemic. If they are mostly old people will the figures for next year show a decline?
61
19/03/2021 12:29:02 70 15
bbc
The Independent reported 50,000 excess deaths due to flu in 2018. If these excess deaths are abnormal then 2018 was worse than 2019.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/flu-vaccine-deaths-nhs-ineffective-crisis-bad-weather-illness-2017-a8660496.html
158
19/03/2021 12:38:16 12 4
bbc
Yet still lower that the death rate per capita in the early 2000s despite the big bad scarry virus.

Get a grip government and free us from these ridiculous and unnecessary restrictions.
245
19/03/2021 12:46:19 8 3
bbc
an extra 3750 a month from a population over 70 million - hardly pandemic number IMO
249
19/03/2021 12:46:33 14 10
bbc
Remember those numbers are with all the measures taken to reduce deaths; it could have gotten 10 or nearly 100 times worse.
And the term you're looking for is displaced mortality; we'll see slight declines in deaths over the next decade, because that the timescale over which those killed by Covid would have died normally.
616
19/03/2021 13:11:08 2 0
bbc
Nearer 600k deaths per year so an extra 42,000 deaths...
19/03/2021 14:40:28 0 2
bbc
C19 v 1918 flu...

C19 has infected more people in a year n has adapted faster than any other virus.....
19/03/2021 16:53:11 0 0
bbc
With a population of 68 million, is an annualised death rate of just less than 1% acceptable, especially given the lifestyles lived by many? I suspect that a big percentage of that number however represents the less well off and those with mental health and anxiety issues.
19/03/2021 17:24:57 0 0
bbc
50,000 extra deaths occurred in 2017 due to the flu vaccine not being so effective. BBC I have been telling you all these facts for months, well before Xmas as the Covid Cultists denied it. The FACTS are out there, why could I find them and NOT the BBC?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/flu-vaccine-deaths-nhs-ineffective-crisis-bad-weather-illness-2017-a8660496.html
19/03/2021 22:06:44 0 0
bbc
650,000 minus the non-covid ones that have been prevented by covid-driven precautions, means that excess deaths are more than the stated 45,500.
25
19/03/2021 12:26:07 14 5
bbc
Does anybody know what this means in numbers of excess deaths rather than a percentage?
93
19/03/2021 12:31:10 10 17
bbc
Well 126,000 + have died from Covid within 28 days of having a positive test, interpret that as you decide.
509
19/03/2021 13:06:08 1 1
bbc
Google
708
19/03/2021 13:13:41 1 0
bbc
90,000 in 2020.

in 2019 604,000 people died. very similar ni 2015-18 too.

In 2020 it was 694,000.

You will note that is an increase of more than 7%, that is because the 7% figure is a derived, normalised statistic used to compared different populations, not a raw increase. But the BBC didnt understand that and have misreported it.
7
19/03/2021 12:23:10 1356 325
bbc
Let’s not forget that every country has recorded its mortality data related to COVID differently.

Just thought I’d get this in before the inevitable comparisons are made between us and other countries.

And let’s not forget the relative transparency between our figures and those of other less transparent nations
26
Jim
19/03/2021 12:26:08 214 26
bbc
This article is comparing excess deaths, not covid deaths, they are doing it, because deaths are directly comparable, did you read the article?
27
19/03/2021 12:26:13 16 26
bbc
Slow to lockdown Johnson has twice caused tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths, truly terrible that he hasn't resigned.
63
19/03/2021 12:29:07 8 3
bbc
No he has not. Stop rewriting history.
105
19/03/2021 12:32:27 1 1
bbc
yet you have no proof that anyone else would have done any better given that was what needed to be weighed up between deaths and the economy and given scientific advice. At some point you will accept it is a virus killing people or are you going to blame boris for all the rest of the deaths around the world too?
28
19/03/2021 12:26:13 12 30
bbc
Through the UK's incompetence at containing the Kent variant, the rest of Europe are now suffering.
54
19/03/2021 12:28:33 6 4
bbc
Blame Nigel Farage (he's from Kent after all). In fact I blame him for most of our current problems.
79
19/03/2021 12:30:12 1 3
bbc
UK scientists were able to report on it quickly because of genuinely world-leading sequencing capacity dedicated to monitoring the pandemic. What is done with that information isn't exclusively up to the UK.

I bet you blame China?
83
19/03/2021 12:30:35 4 2
bbc
The variant was first detected in Kent. That dos not mean it originated there. It was already in Europe.
139
19/03/2021 12:36:12 1 2
bbc
Given where it was spotted, it almost certainly “originated” in Dunkirk. Not that it matters, the key was to spot it and tell the world - so the anti UK and anti science can call us Plague Island.
6
19/03/2021 12:22:44 25 30
bbc
Got vaccinations right
Got everything else wrong
People pay the price and taxes
(£34bn for track-n-trace and millions for Nightingale hospitals that treated 23)
29
19/03/2021 12:26:31 5 4
bbc
Bet you couldn't wait for another chance to have a pop at a job no doubt you would run a mile from along with the majo6of our nation
4
19/03/2021 12:22:16 4 11
bbc
My imagination, or was this story written with a thinly disguised note of schadenfreude?
30
19/03/2021 12:26:36 7 3
bbc
Your imagination. You ascribe your own motivations onto others.
19/03/2021 14:50:32 0 0
bbc
Do I? From just 14 words you can assert that.

Gosh mister, I wish I was clever like you...
17
19/03/2021 12:25:09 136 19
bbc
To be honest I was expecting it to be a lot lot worse.
31
19/03/2021 12:26:40 62 112
bbc
Same death rate as WW2 not enough
203
19/03/2021 12:42:35 9 6
bbc
Logical fallacy
234
19/03/2021 12:45:10 18 6
bbc
Huge difference in population now and not everyone in the country was on the front line in WWII. Please stop being stupid.
19/03/2021 13:42:03 9 19
bbc
So much vile complacency on here about our heartbreakingly high death toll and so many so keen to absolve our government's abysmal Covid response. Had we gone into lockdown sooner rather than in January 25000 people would still be alive. 70000 civilians died in WW2 and we have had 130000 deaths to Covid this is dire. Other countries have done so much better than we have!
19/03/2021 14:09:54 7 2
bbc
It really is nowhere near the same death rate, have you even looked?
19/03/2021 15:15:17 5 1
bbc
In the US 552,000 have died. That's slightly more than the combined US deaths of WW2, the Korean war and Vietnam combined
19/03/2021 19:05:23 2 0
bbc
What has WW2 got to do with anything?
19/03/2021 20:43:31 0 0
bbc
and where did you get that bit of misinformation - the Beano? Do a quick search and you will discover what a BIG lie you have just told
32
19/03/2021 12:26:46 102 8
bbc
I hope that things change in the UK and in the EU, it's awful that some countries are now going through a third wave. Nobody really wants to see that.
413
19/03/2021 13:00:48 173 43
bbc
Perhaps the EU leaders should not have been playing politics with the vaccines. Reap what you sow.
I honestly believe a small proportion of the Brexiteers welcome the culling of 'foreigners'. Rabies does that to them. Removed
19/03/2021 16:48:21 2 2
bbc
The failure of implementing appropriate tiers in London, Essex and Kent in Nov/Dec to contain the Kent variant led to our third wave. This has subsequently reached elsewhere in the UK and on the continent.

You can’t blame them for calling it the English variant and feeling bitter towards us.
19/03/2021 22:08:54 0 0
bbc
True, but each wave is worse than the previous one, and we are expected to follow the same pattern a few weeks later.
4
19/03/2021 12:22:16 4 11
bbc
My imagination, or was this story written with a thinly disguised note of schadenfreude?
33
19/03/2021 12:26:46 0 1
bbc
No
34
19/03/2021 12:26:48 364 17
bbc
We can only hope that these other countries can catch up on their vaccination programmes, there’s no joy in seeing other countries overtake us in the death toll.
812
jon
19/03/2021 13:24:27 214 7
bbc
Yes Italy now has over 100,000 deaths and France is catching up with that figure as Paris is back in lockdown. Hopefully the vaccine production problems in Belgium and Netherlands can be quickly resolved.
917
DrR
19/03/2021 13:29:23 34 1
bbc
Absolutely, it's not some sort of competition to see who has the most deaths.

The fact that we are no longer in top stop doesn't make me feel any better for those that have died.
19/03/2021 13:42:49 9 12
bbc
and that was exactly Ursula von Leyedons argument. Thats why 4 out of the 6 countries have higher death rates. , they haven't had the supply of vaccines that western europe has. Not everyting the EU does is wrong. All countries agreed that they would commit to sharing the vaccines. Hardly any African country has had it.
19/03/2021 13:48:12 33 4
bbc
"no joy in seeing other countries overtake us in the death toll."

Quite right

But neither should there be any joy in us being 'worse' then them.
19/03/2021 14:24:20 17 1
bbc
Agreed - it's not a league table - but the main concern is that if other countries have high virus prevalence then we'll never get out of the cycle of new vaccine-resistant variants/ more vaccination programmes. We need to drive it down across the entire globe, not just in the UK or Europe or USA. Once mass air travel returns NO place will be safe from being reseeded with new variants otherwise.
19/03/2021 15:10:56 5 5
bbc
Of course, because then the BBC would have to drop that line of attack on the UK . I doubt they will mention it when France death rates exceed ours
19/03/2021 15:15:10 3 0
bbc
It's not a race it's the human race.
19/03/2021 15:16:35 4 7
bbc
Oh there is - the Johnson loving, red wall, Brexiteer types will welcome anything which seems to show they weren't responsible for a massive political cock-up.
19/03/2021 15:42:29 4 2
bbc
Yes makes you seriously wonder what french politicians especially are up to. They are losing in popularity and lives. So sad.
19/03/2021 15:58:12 8 4
bbc
No joy?

There were plenty of people deriding Johnson and Hancock for Britain's performance at the start of the pandemic. It was way too early to draw comparisons, but it was seen as fair game for political gain.

Boot's on the other foot now. There is still time to go in this pandemic, but it does look like the UK Tory Government have handled the crisis better than our European neighbours.
19/03/2021 16:26:25 3 0
bbc
We're not in a competition, are we?
19/03/2021 18:19:32 0 1
bbc
Don't worry they won't Boris and his sociopathic incompetents will see to that.
Met
19/03/2021 20:56:27 0 0
bbc
Best comment on this message board!!!!!
19/03/2021 21:38:38 1 0
bbc
They chose to take the route they did,

Comments from arch Anglophobe Macron don't help.

Just for once, we seem to have done the right thing, but how much was down to politicians remains to be seen.
20/03/2021 00:00:50 0 0
bbc
It's not compatation who is the best. Yes the UK might be ahead of the rest of Europe at the moment, but British the death rates speak for themselves. One of the world worse. Let's focus on that before the UK Pats itself on the back on what a great job they have done.
35
19/03/2021 12:26:57 15 6
bbc
Bad,but not as some forcasted. A better sign being that the numbers to date this year are lower. For a winter period. Probably down to non materialisation of seasonal flu.
89
VoR
19/03/2021 12:31:06 8 3
bbc
There's a reason for that low flu impact. The southern hemisphere was in lockdown during their winter (our summer) which then reduces the prevalence of flu coming into our winter in the northern hemisphere.
291
19/03/2021 12:50:47 1 0
bbc
Probably prevented by the covid precautions.
36
19/03/2021 12:26:58 11 13
bbc
I must have personally saved a few hundred lives by staying at home but it doesn't look like it made much difference, so after my second jab, I'm off on holiday. Heartily sick of all the pious, behind the sofa brigade telling me to "stay safe".
68
VoR
19/03/2021 12:29:21 2 4
bbc
Clearly it did make a difference. That 7% would have been a lot higher. (Note that the 7% isn't necessarily all down to the virus, and indeed the impact of the virus could be more than 7% (since road traffic accidents and some other causes of death would be down relative to normal).
120
19/03/2021 12:34:15 0 1
bbc
You may have noticed the arrogant and ignorant brigade out in force glad to see your not one of them!
3
19/03/2021 12:22:11 454 17
bbc
Hopefully we as a country are on the road to recovery.
37
19/03/2021 12:27:05 298 181
bbc
Hopefully we are due to the success of the vaccine roll out.

For a change the Tories didn't play politics and implemented the idea of giving single doses to as many as possible even though it was Tony Blair's idea.

Too many politicians would have discarded an idea proposed by a political opponent.
246
19/03/2021 12:46:23 155 20
bbc
It wasn't 'Tony Blair's' idea!

It was an idea that was proposed by epidemiologists who looked at the 1st dose protection levels and did the maths to work out that there would be fewer deaths and less burden on the NHS if more people had one dose rather then fewer having both doses.

Tony Blair (as all politicians do) looked for a cause to help his personal cause (publicity) and jumped on it.
252
19/03/2021 12:46:54 80 17
bbc
Yes 'Honest' Tony is an expert on everything....or so he thinks....
320
19/03/2021 12:53:08 77 7
bbc
Blair’s idea ?????
341
19/03/2021 12:54:51 39 6
bbc
You're naive.
351
bob
19/03/2021 12:55:32 44 22
bbc
It wasn’t Tony Blair’s idea, he stole it from Nick Hancock
366
19/03/2021 12:56:46 62 12
bbc
You are trying to give Blair credit for something? Unbelievable.
438
19/03/2021 13:02:09 46 16
bbc
The tories, to their credit, did what the experts told them on the vaccination. Also they've had very little to do with the actual organisation of the vaccination programme, which is a blessing!
Is that Tony Blair who is still in denial about the lack of weapons of mass destruction? Removed
646
19/03/2021 13:13:39 23 6
bbc
Highly unlikely it was 'Tony Blair's idea'. He'll have lifted it from someone that knows about vaccines and coverage.
757
19/03/2021 13:21:43 14 2
bbc
Tony Blair? have you missed the last 10 years!
964
19/03/2021 13:32:59 11 2
bbc
Blair actually said something rather different, and just because said something, does mean he was the first .
991
VoR
19/03/2021 13:35:27 10 0
bbc
Agreed that it is good they went ahead even though Blair (who I see as a smart guy) suggested it. That said, I would be surprised if someone else didn't make that point to Blair before he suggested it. It's certainly something I and colleagues were discussing internally prior to Blair making his statement. He could have come up with it himself. However, the odds are someone else told him first
19/03/2021 13:38:47 16 2
bbc
Tony Blairs idea? Yesterday people were claiming Gordon Brown started the vaccine research. Clearly banning social media would be better than social distancing. lol

Priceless idiocy. Keep em' coming...lol
19/03/2021 13:39:43 14 1
bbc
TBs idea lol. Will leave others to school you on that...
19/03/2021 13:42:35 12 1
bbc
I didn’t know that Blair was a vaccinologist in his spare time ??
MrT
19/03/2021 13:55:32 9 4
bbc
The only ideas that Tony Blair ever had were to do with joining illegal wars in the Middle East and/or making us much personal wealth as possible. Just what I would expect from a champagne socialist.
19/03/2021 14:03:44 8 2
bbc
It wasn't Blair's idea & had been put to the government by leading virologists more than a week before he spouted off.
Labour, past & present had nothing to do with how the UK vaccination programme was delivered.
19/03/2021 14:15:19 7 1
bbc
It was a sensible idea and has worked, but Mr T Blair esq cannot be credited with it! He just repeated (early on to be fair to him) the idea from elsewhere!
19/03/2021 14:30:14 3 0
bbc
Don't you mean Lionel Blair
He's got a flare for it apparently.
Nic
19/03/2021 14:50:23 5 8
bbc
Regardless of where the idea came from, Tony Blair was vocal about it before any other politicians. Frankly, he's far more of a statesman than the current shower of idiots we have leading us, even though I'm not a Labour supporter.
19/03/2021 15:09:26 4 3
bbc
The Iraq war was also TB's idea
19/03/2021 15:12:14 2 2
bbc
Scientists were endorsing a single dose al least 4 weeks before Tony Blair. Mr Blair was only repeating what he had read.
19/03/2021 15:14:40 3 1
bbc
Oh I am sure Tony Blair was totally the reason the single jab idea was adopted....lol.
19/03/2021 15:29:38 0 2
bbc
Was it Balls Blairs idea, he criticized it, do try to lie better please voice!!
19/03/2021 15:42:50 0 4
bbc
It was Blairs idea to go to war that killed more than covid
19/03/2021 15:47:41 0 2
bbc
Blair jumped on the band wagon after he got notice that the medical experts were about to announce it. Do you really believe that he thought of that before those eminent experts?
19/03/2021 16:03:38 0 1
bbc
Another guffaw today - thanks!
19/03/2021 16:11:55 1 1
bbc
You won’t get away with that comment, the snipping remainers will tell you different, any reason to rubbish the country, even when it does good.
19/03/2021 16:25:58 0 2
bbc
yeah because Tony Blair is an expert in global viral pandemics.
38
19/03/2021 12:27:18 55 11
bbc
I am willing to bet this year it will be below the normal.
306
19/03/2021 12:33:46 53 12
bbc
It will be below normal for a number of years since most of the people who died were extremely elderly and would have died in the next few years anyway.
638
19/03/2021 13:13:11 0 7
bbc
Please do, maybe put up your house, life insurance and that funeral plan that you've just set up?
655
19/03/2021 13:14:29 3 0
bbc
It’s possible but the figures for January were a lot higher than normal. However, we are almost certainly now at the point where deaths are below the 5 year average and I think they will remain below the 5 year average for some time now.
They were also below the 5 year average last summer.
xlr
19/03/2021 14:01:01 0 2
bbc
I don't think so. Maybe next year. This year looks on target to hit around 15% excess deaths.
19/03/2021 14:49:08 1 3
bbc
Possibly not this year due to the 45,000 (likely to be 50,000 by year's end) Covid deaths so far.
Next year it'll be lower for certain unless we have a dangerous mutation thanks to vaccine refusers.
18
19/03/2021 12:25:28 614 293
bbc
I'm surprised by that 7% - with all the BBC's hysterical reporting I assumed it was 20% plus. And a lot of those excess death will be people who would have died this winter or next winter from something else.
39
19/03/2021 12:27:18 517 239
bbc
And dont forget 80% of covid deaths people had another issue that would have killed them withing a year or two.
76
19/03/2021 12:30:03 8 12
bbc
Or with in a week if they were of average age of covid death.
132
Jim
19/03/2021 12:35:40 77 28
bbc
So if you're going to die in a year or two you should be fine dieing now? Ridiculous comment
177
19/03/2021 12:40:21 7 2
bbc
Will be interesting to see how much lower than the average next year will be. That will confirm or otherwise this assumption which is absolutely what we need to do in order to bring some sort of context to the paranoia!
210
19/03/2021 12:43:09 11 4
bbc
We're all going to die within a hundred years or so, but I for one am quite keen to make that as long as possible.
Not sure where you get the 80% from - assume that it is from a peer reviewed statistical report - but you still admit to people dying early. One of the benefits of living in the UK is that society does attempt to look after the ill and less fortunate.
329
19/03/2021 12:54:07 0 0
bbc
That applies to most recording of deaths (barring sudden traumas).
499
19/03/2021 13:05:19 2 0
bbc
Good point, will be interesting to see the average figures over the next 5 years to see if they are indeed lower....
516
19/03/2021 13:06:15 0 0
bbc
Well that’s alright then
597
VoR
19/03/2021 13:10:04 0 0
bbc
False.
636
opp
19/03/2021 13:13:04 0 0
bbc
Well that's ok then .. ???
729
Ads
19/03/2021 13:19:26 2 0
bbc
And 100% of that 80% were on medication to keep them alive in the first place. 50 years ago, Covid would've been barely noticed, but now, in some cases, we spend millions to keep those with a poor quality of life alive. Is it fair on them?
893
19/03/2021 13:28:39 1 2
bbc
That's OK then. What you are implying is if you are old and get sick, don't bother going to hospital and taking up a valuable bed.
mum
19/03/2021 14:09:32 1 1
bbc
That is a human being you are talking about. Someone’s mother or father or grandparent or great grandparent.
19/03/2021 14:19:23 0 2
bbc
Also remember that 100% of covid deniers are morons.
19/03/2021 14:28:09 1 0
bbc
That's incorrect. Underlying issues are not necessarily a death sentence, but combined with covid they appear to have been for a lot of the deceased.
19/03/2021 14:42:18 1 1
bbc
You seem to be (wilfully) ignoring the fact that these people who "would have [died] within a year or two" were ill with Covid taking up ICU beds that could have been used to treat people suffering from other ailments. Like cancer.

Another post showing that selfish wants to be allowed to act normally have clouded judgement as to why we lock down / shield / socially distance in the first place.
19/03/2021 14:51:01 0 0
bbc
Based on whose data is that assertion?
19/03/2021 14:51:19 0 0
bbc
To paraphrase, " I don't like these statistics, so I'll make up one which suits my prejudices..."
19/03/2021 14:51:54 0 0
bbc
Can you point us to that scientific analysis you refer to?
40
19/03/2021 12:27:19 122 55
bbc
Comparing death rates with other countries is absolute rubbish - each country record their rates differently - Remember our our death rate is ' death from any cause with in 28 days of a positive Covid test' so 20 days after a positive test I get run over by a bus - covid stat - bet that doesnt happen in any other country .
167
19/03/2021 12:39:37 93 22
bbc
Equally speaking, someone who is being actively treated for Covid in intensive care isn't counted if they die 29 days after their positive test. Excess mortality is the only figure which gives a reliable measure of the disease's impact.
174
19/03/2021 12:40:18 11 3
bbc
Nonsense, this is the number of deaths from all causes.
272
19/03/2021 12:49:39 2 0
bbc
I don't think the doctors are that stupid.
316
19/03/2021 12:52:50 13 0
bbc
What a lot of rubbish you are talking this is talking about excess total deaths over the last year i.e. how many more died in the last year than a “normal” year (irrespective of cause of death) - the definition of being dead is the same in all countries ! I suspect next years will be lower than normal - as many are “early” deaths of already infirm people.
645
b
19/03/2021 13:13:36 9 0
bbc
The article is about excess deaths, that is a meaningful benchmark for every country, regardless of how they categorise "Covid" deaths.
728
19/03/2021 13:19:19 2 1
bbc
If every single person who was killed on in a road accident was added to the Covid statistics, it would be an increase of under 2%. And in case people haven't noticed, there was less traffic on the roads last year and the death toll can be expected to be down once the figures are available.
19/03/2021 14:46:29 2 7
bbc
Except the "had a positive test, got run over by a bus = died from covid" claim is completely untrue.
You're also ignoring all those who died from covid induced issues AFTER 28 days, which will be far more than the number of people hit by buses or anything else, with or without a positive test.
19/03/2021 15:21:52 3 0
bbc
That is why they haven't used the figures you refer to and used excess deaths in comparison to previous years. If every one has two years of "how many people died - full stop" then we can compare the difference (assume its covid related) and compare the relative increases.
19/03/2021 15:33:05 2 1
bbc
But drown in Covid on day 29 and you're not a Covid death! The excess deaths figure shows that the 28 day count is UNDERCOUNTING Covid deaths. Did that bus mention the millions extra for the NHS by any chance?
19/03/2021 17:59:28 0 0
bbc
You do not need a Covid test to know if someone is dead.
The only uncertainty is the total population.
19/03/2021 18:33:21 0 0
bbc
Read the article properly, then come back to us.
19/03/2021 22:13:35 0 0
bbc
Er, not from 'any cause'.
3
19/03/2021 12:22:11 454 17
bbc
Hopefully we as a country are on the road to recovery.
41
19/03/2021 12:27:28 25 14
bbc
More selective use of data, the last 5 years is not a great amount to compare against. Adjusted for age and population 2020 was the 35th worst year in the last 50 for deaths i.e. there were 34 worse years...
2
19/03/2021 12:21:45 274 71
bbc
Standard biology has it that if one species grows in numbers to a level too much for the area they inhabit to cope with, nature seeks to rebalance things. For all the havoc Covid has caused, it seems to be one of those rebalancing means for our nigh on 8 billion population.
42
19/03/2021 12:27:36 32 42
bbc
Thanks for the info Charles Darwin. I am sure the thousands who have lost loved ones will be most reassured that nature has been rebalanced.
204
19/03/2021 12:42:44 21 4
bbc
I think the main point of the argument BSUB is making is that there is a lot of us, and "little space". He/she's not implying nature is more important.
749
19/03/2021 13:21:01 1 0
bbc
That is irrelevant to the machinations of Nature.

Heartless, but it has to be.

Leave the empathy to the humans.
19/03/2021 21:11:15 0 0
bbc
It hasn't been rebalanced yet.
19/03/2021 21:58:49 0 1
bbc
Charles Darwin would have been very vocal about what has happened. Low vitamin D levels (resulting in immune deficiency) for people with dark skin is almost certainly a contributory factor.
43
19/03/2021 12:27:39 15 8
bbc
Does this mean that the true number of deaths from Covid, rather than with Covid, is say around 10,000? Or is that too simplistic?
224
19/03/2021 12:44:00 2 2
bbc
No it's not too simplistic. But equally it's not possible to state categorically that it's a correct assumption. The missing element, which no-one can possibly know, is how many of the 129,000 covid deaths would have happened anyway due to other causes, like simple old age. It's the great unknown.
268
19/03/2021 12:49:03 0 0
bbc
There were over 695.8 thousand deaths in the United Kingdom in 2020, compared with 604 thousand in 2019. That of course does not include the extra deaths for the first three months of 2021
973
19/03/2021 13:33:47 0 0
bbc
Wanting to know the difference between deaths 'from' and 'with' covid is like asking how many deaths due to drink-driving are due to drink, and how many are due to driving.
Co-morbidity.
19/03/2021 13:55:44 0 0
bbc
We also normally have around 30,000 deaths from the flu each year. There has been very little flu in the country due to lockdowns, masks and people washing hands, it has made a difference there, so I guess if the maths are done correctly, then another 30,000 should be added as excess deaths during a normal UK winter!
8
MVP
19/03/2021 12:23:29 28 26
bbc
And yet there are still people who deny that COVID is real.

These are shocking statistics and shows just how wrong the government was in dithering over lockdown last year.
44
19/03/2021 12:27:40 4 4
bbc
People are denying it is real. They are simply questioning our response. Please stop misrepresenting their opinion.
86
19/03/2021 12:30:47 3 3
bbc
Correct. No one is denying that COVID is real; just denying that it is a problem.
45
SP
19/03/2021 12:27:41 625 110
bbc
High amount of Obese and aged population in UK is the main reason for this.

Many countries with younger population like India and less obese population like southern Europe are not badly affected even though they are also affected by the epidemic
Need a fat tax. Not on fat food but on fat people. An extra 1% on income tax for every BMI point over 30 should encourage healthier behaviour. Removed
219
19/03/2021 12:43:55 37 7
bbc
Is Spain southern Europe? They have higher rates than us.
340
bob
19/03/2021 12:54:46 24 4
bbc
You’re almost certainly right, together with certain communities whose way of living makes them more likely to be exposed and also there is still the likely effect of vitamin d deficiency for certain skin types. Government action has and will always please no-one but those trying to link it to excess deaths are unlikely to get far when set against these causes.
397
19/03/2021 12:59:38 4 1
bbc
all that olive oil keeping ze greeks healthy, Ade Re
506
19/03/2021 13:05:59 4 0
bbc
Spain? Italy?
627
VoR
19/03/2021 13:12:04 2 3
bbc
Some truth in this but still misleading. Italy, for example, was hit hard but applied countermeasures such as lockdown more effectively.
682
19/03/2021 13:13:04 5 2
bbc
Maybe your pm could lead by example ? Fat chance.
760
Ads
19/03/2021 13:21:53 5 0
bbc
They have a younger population because they understand you're not meant to live forever, and don't spend millions to keep a 99 year old alive.
853
19/03/2021 13:26:16 10 0
bbc
It is a missed opportunity to emphasise that carrying excess weight is really not good for you. Sadly we're all too frightened of saying anything because we're too PC these days. It won't help anyone in the long run.
905
VoR
19/03/2021 13:28:59 1 0
bbc
Aged population isn't necessarily what's behind the under 65 stat.

Take Italy by way of example. Here's a comparison of our population pyramids over time. You can fast forward to 2020 and see how it looks for under 65s. The average age of under 65s in Italy is clearly higher than in the UK (but I'll give you the obesity point!).: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XjvRBVKeAw
46
19/03/2021 12:27:48 274 95
bbc
A couple of interesting elements to this tragic figure. It is poorly expressed, but it is clear that we are not an outlier across Europe, which suggests that our highest Covid figures reflect more “honest” figures than elsewhere - it hit everyone hard. Not that the (B?)BC would spell that out. Second, our death rate was actually lower than in the last years of Labour...
194
19/03/2021 12:41:53 81 170
bbc
Our figures only include those who die within 28 days of testing, if it takes you 29 days to die you don't count.
623
19/03/2021 13:11:54 7 37
bbc
Your conclusions are driven by xenophobic notion that we have better collected figures than those foreigner types... allegedly better collected fatality data - we should be SO proud...
19/03/2021 14:13:06 2 1
bbc
"Second, our death rate was actually lower than in the last years of Labour..."

Sources please.
19/03/2021 15:24:22 2 0
bbc
Jeez, you have made some pretty big assumptions here! I take it you have NO EXPERIENCE WHATSOEVER - but it doesn't stop you from having an ill-informed opinion.

Are we so arrogant to believe that our figures are authentic and others, who have reacted more positively, are lying? Weaving Labour in to this beggars belief - and is a plain lie! You might be blind to Johnson's failings; others aren't.
19/03/2021 15:27:07 2 0
bbc
Absolute codswallop.
19/03/2021 15:47:34 2 0
bbc
But England still twice that of Wales.
19/03/2021 18:26:40 0 0
bbc
Fake news.
19/03/2021 18:32:01 1 0
bbc
Political bias. Bend the facts and figures to suit your argument Sure you're not taking lessons From Govt.
19/03/2021 21:42:52 0 0
bbc
I'm puzzled by the deadline "death within 28 days of being tested positive". Does it mean that, if someone manages to hang on to life for 29 days but still passes away, they won't be counted? If so, you can add a huge percentage to our death toll.
The BBC are very good at leaving the gaps for the brainwashed to fill in. Removed
218
19/03/2021 12:43:54 26 21
bbc
Underrated post.
The BBC have to be admired for spotting early that the C19 threat + BJ as a useful idiot, was a golden opportunity to steer us towards the woke nanny state, they clearly see as the future.
IMO, this is why they have so vigorously supported HMG's distortion of the truth.
Try this.
May contain facts you have not been previously exposed to.
https://www.hartgroup.org/covid-19-evidence/
Removed
612
19/03/2021 13:10:57 1 1
bbc
You do it so well though
876
19/03/2021 13:27:08 2 2
bbc
"The BBC are very good at leaving the gaps for the brainwashed to fill in."

Brainwashed? Are BBC employees allowed to comment in these pages then?
19/03/2021 14:08:40 1 3
bbc
Yawn
19/03/2021 14:28:56 1 1
bbc
So why do you respond so readily?
48
bbc
All the lets bash Boris and the government nasty spiteful abuse the BBC have dished out over the number of deaths remember right at the start when the experts said wait until it is all over to compare notes well those chickens BBC are coming home to roost and you will be shown for the biased opinionated public braodcaster you are. Said it before say it again ...wake up and smell the coffee... Removed
78
19/03/2021 12:30:08 48 36
bbc
Commas cost nothing.
116
Pjt
19/03/2021 12:33:46 3 5
bbc
Just be thankful you can wake up and smell the coffee!!
181
19/03/2021 12:40:43 7 1
bbc
Oh dear, covid 19 deaths are higher than the average number of deaths because covid 19 precautions have protected people from flu. Flu deaths are well down.
Nic
19/03/2021 15:05:58 1 3
bbc
Fill in the missing word: Boris is a Pr...
19/03/2021 15:21:34 8 1
bbc
The BBC has been reporting the news. Its negative because this govt has been a shambles from start to finish. Vaccines have been their only success. The fact that you cant even concieve that negative reporting is because the party you voted for has done a shocking job (cumminsgate, 36bn on non existent test and trace, kids back to school for 1 day, 3 separate lockdowns) says it all. Brainwashed
19/03/2021 15:28:25 6 0
bbc
What a load of drivel.

The BBC has not dished out "nasty spiteful abuse" towards the government, what an infantile claim.

Go back to your mindless tabloids if you want to stay deluded.
19/03/2021 15:29:07 1 0
bbc
Saying it doesn't make it true though. Pleased to see that you alone have kept an open mind and used the BBC's facilities.
CG
19/03/2021 16:03:35 0 0
bbc
125 000 deaths.....surely no government can be allowed to feel smug about that !
19/03/2021 17:13:07 0 0
bbc
Agreed, stop the License and make them earn their own money
18
19/03/2021 12:25:28 614 293
bbc
I'm surprised by that 7% - with all the BBC's hysterical reporting I assumed it was 20% plus. And a lot of those excess death will be people who would have died this winter or next winter from something else.
49
19/03/2021 12:28:00 40 16
bbc
Also it's more selective use of data, the last 5 years is not a great amount to compare against. Adjusted for age and population 2020 was the 35th worst year in the last 50 for deaths i.e. there were 34 worse years...
215
19/03/2021 12:43:38 5 4
bbc
50 years, why not go back further to WW2, it'll get you numbers that are even more in-tune with your agenda.

50 years ago average life expectancy was 10 years less than now, it's not really comparable.
722
19/03/2021 13:18:55 0 0
bbc
You're missing that longevity normally improves year on year, plus population size and mix by ages changes so comparing vs 30 years ago say is very flawed.
50
Tim
19/03/2021 12:28:06 181 37
bbc
With a population of almost 70m, I guess up to 1m deaths per year is normal. So 7% of that is 70k. About double a bad year's flu deaths. I was expecting the figure to be higher than 7%.
108
19/03/2021 12:33:05 103 35
bbc
Firstly, the impact of the pandemic was not for a full year, so I expect more than 10% for the period it covered. Secondly, how many flu deaths do you think there would be if we locked down every winter? You really can’t compare the 2 things
125
Jim
19/03/2021 12:34:34 9 6
bbc
It would have been without lockdowns
127
19/03/2021 12:34:45 14 14
bbc
600k-650k is a normal year so 7% is less than 50k.

Backs up the WITH COVID not of COVID deaths argument. Most of the 125k deaths supposedly caused by the pandemic would have died anyway.

Worth crashing the economy for? No.
228
19/03/2021 12:44:27 9 4
bbc
As someone's already commented, outcome without lockdowns?
524
19/03/2021 12:55:39 7 2
bbc
It is. this 7% figure is age standardised, which is complicated but essentially statistical fuckery that underestimates the excess deaths because they were concentrated in old people. in the uk 604,000 people died last year, and 694,000 this year, which is around 15% extra, not 75%.

It shows how misleading statistics without context are.
594
19/03/2021 13:09:56 6 4
bbc
A flu season runs over the winter - i.e. from November through to March. The 70k you quote is only up to the end of Dec 2020 - and would sadly need to be doubled to reflect the deaths in January and February 2021. So far worse than double a bad flu year..
713
19/03/2021 13:18:03 1 0
bbc
You cannot attribute the risk from Covid evenly across 70 million people like that, otherwise you may as well have a free for all vaccine program!
M12
19/03/2021 13:58:57 4 2
bbc
The preceding 5yr average deaths per year per 100k was around 900. Covid increased that last year to around 1000. ONS data.
So all being equal ‘covid’ led to an extra 100 deaths per 100k. That means an extra 0.1% of the population died last year. You don’t have to be a mathematician to know that 0.1 is very small!
19/03/2021 14:33:52 2 1
bbc
Deaths for UK are just over 600,000 a year. 7% of this is around 42,000 excess deaths (upto the end of 2020). The final figure will be higher as more deaths happened this year. The problem has always been how you record "deaths from covid". Excess deaths however cannot be manipulated by governments - they will be a matter of fact. The UK is not likely to be better or worse than most in the end.
Did you read the article?

1/3 of our total deaths happened since new years day so sadly the true figure is much higher then 7%

Bit of a misleading article really!!!
19/03/2021 14:58:09 0 0
bbc
Back in January it was reported that the figure was 14% although the source wasn't quoted. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55631693. Why has that figure been reduced?
19/03/2021 16:39:27 0 0
bbc
The lockdowns and social distancing measures have been about slowing down transmission so the hospitals aren't overrun with covid patients and the NHS collapse under the strain. So even if there had not been any lockdown and everywhere was allowed to stay open, people would fear going out in case they got sick and that would have just as much of an impact on the economy and for much longer period
19/03/2021 16:49:34 1 0
bbc
Lockdown, social distancing etc has reduced flu deaths considerably (not surprising as it propagates like covid), so it's 7% in spite of that.
19/03/2021 18:00:12 0 0
bbc
About 10000 people a year dies from flu in the UK. Who taught you maths?
19/03/2021 18:26:09 0 0
bbc
Deaths from other causes are down..no flu...fewer car accidents...
19/03/2021 18:26:59 0 0
bbc
There are around 550,000 deaths each year, so 7% of 68m is 47,000 excess deaths, which is suprising low compared to 68,000 covid deaths by dec 18 last year. Suggests 20,000 would have died of something else very soon after.
19/03/2021 18:34:25 0 1
bbc
So almost 130000 deaths from covid wrong then.
19/03/2021 21:50:33 0 1
bbc
Someone said 20,000 excess deaths would be a good outcome.

Still getting 5000 new infected every day and 100 deaths a day.

150,000 isn't that far away.
19/03/2021 21:51:34 0 1
bbc
Washing more often, sanitising, social distancing, and the lockdowns generally, have reduced ordinary flu deaths. The starting point for excess deaths is therefore lower, so appears to show fewer excess deaths than in reality.
51
19/03/2021 12:28:10 116 15
bbc
Please can we have some historical context when we look at death rate?
It might be worth considering that death rates during the 2010's (the period we are comparing 2020 against) were incredibly low. According to ONS, every year before 2003 had a higher per capita death rate in the UK. If you look at age-standardised mortality rates in the UK then every year before 2009 had a higher death rate.
412
19/03/2021 13:00:42 106 83
bbc
All factually accurate Stephen but you are missing the point that certain people love being in lockdown and so they are sensationalising every headline in order to pedal the Zero COVID rhetoric.

Articles like this, and analysis like yours, upset them as it shows that it wasn't really worth crashing the economy for.
422
bob
19/03/2021 13:01:23 14 2
bbc
I think we also have to consider that the medical success of keeping people with severe diseases like diabetes etc. alive for much longer than in the past is in itself a factor here in that covid could become the last straw for such people who may well not have survived anyway a decade ago. This whole subject is very complex.
BOF
19/03/2021 13:56:24 1 8
bbc
The article refers to “excess deaths”. This is based on the average death figures for the last 5 years. On that basis we had about 600,000 deaths a year. In the last 12 months we have had about 720,000 deaths or about 120% of what we would have expected without Covid.
19/03/2021 18:29:55 0 2
bbc
Fake news.
19/03/2021 20:39:22 0 0
bbc
Ask google.
19/03/2021 21:57:21 0 0
bbc
Whilst your figures are not disputed, the conclusion is not necessarily the correct one. The lower death rates for the 2010's represent our current ability to survive, so this decade is the new norm. Earlier decades no longer apply. 2020 and early 2021 is a disaster by current standards.
16
19/03/2021 12:25:07 8 12
bbc
Well, as a starter for 10, how can “England rank seventh on this list (7.8%) with the UK eighth (7.2%)”. Either report as 4 separate countries or as the UK. But not both; that’s double counting.
52
19/03/2021 12:28:23 0 2
bbc
Correct
53
19/03/2021 12:28:23 11 19
bbc
Worst,second worst,sixth or tenth worst is largely irrelevant. The Governments handling of the pandemic has been woeful,that,coupled with the fact that some people have got very rich out of the crisis should bring outrage from journalists,instead we get "good old Boris".
103
19/03/2021 12:32:00 3 3
bbc
So sad that your obviously leftist views are not shared by a lot of people guess you too would run a mile if offered the chance to make the decisions but should a chance to profit come your way?
115
19/03/2021 12:33:31 0 2
bbc
Could have been worse. Could have been Labour in charge ??
129
19/03/2021 12:34:59 0 2
bbc
Such a shame you were not running the country. Ah well.
131
19/03/2021 12:35:06 1 1
bbc
That's because Brexit allowed the press barons to keep their tax havens. They know which side their bread it buttered.
28
19/03/2021 12:26:13 12 30
bbc
Through the UK's incompetence at containing the Kent variant, the rest of Europe are now suffering.
54
19/03/2021 12:28:33 6 4
bbc
Blame Nigel Farage (he's from Kent after all). In fact I blame him for most of our current problems.
This is all very well but the crucial question is when did Nicola Sturgeon know about this? Removed
55
19/03/2021 12:28:33 11 2
bbc
She never knew about it. But if she did, it was definitely two months later. And her husband never discussed it with her, not once.
118
19/03/2021 12:34:08 1 1
bbc
I'm surprised she had time to discuss anything with anyone judging by all that time she spends at that lectern.
18
19/03/2021 12:25:28 614 293
bbc
I'm surprised by that 7% - with all the BBC's hysterical reporting I assumed it was 20% plus. And a lot of those excess death will be people who would have died this winter or next winter from something else.
56
xlr
19/03/2021 12:28:37 16 38
bbc
Excess deaths increased by 20% last year. 19.6% (England), to be precise.
141
19/03/2021 12:36:33 16 4
bbc
Against what are you measuring that???? It's meaningless without context.
148
xlr
19/03/2021 12:37:02 25 42
bbc
Downvoters are morons. Death rate increased 7%. Excess deaths by 20%.

Death rate is an actual value. Excess deaths are difference from a projected level from a rolling average.

Learn to read before clicking the button.
57
19/03/2021 12:28:51 29 6
bbc
So how many excess deaths is that? The crucial figures are missing from this article.
470
Sc
19/03/2021 13:03:51 6 0
bbc
7% of 600,000 annual deaths = 42,000
600
19/03/2021 13:07:51 0 1
bbc
last year was 604,000, this year was 695,000.

The 7% figure is an age standardised statistical analysis used to compare us to europe. because we have an old population, it has reduced our figure from the raw figure of 15% to 7%, and then misreported what this means.

Its shoddy reporting, utterly shoddy.
19
Kew
19/03/2021 12:25:39 89 44
bbc
So many words used by the BBC to hide away the simple fact that Britain's rate wasn't the worse, or even in the top five, despite all the claims (i.e. lies) by the left-wing media that it is worse here than anywhere in Europe.
58
19/03/2021 12:28:57 19 53
bbc
You're just obsessed with Brexit. I bet you like the new Crime and Justice Bill as well .
134
19/03/2021 12:35:42 7 7
bbc
Well done, you win todays "Shoe Horn Brexit Award". You should be proud.
19/03/2021 15:18:27 1 0
bbc
Yes, I do.
19/03/2021 18:07:55 1 0
bbc
Deflection Gary, I told you all the facts would eventually come out, the BBC would eventually have to agree with the facts I posted & the BBC apparently, couldn't find despite having professional reporters. The remoaner, Covid Cultists are now wriggling and squirming as the truth exposes their myths & more of your EU/Remoaner/Covid Cult myths will be exposed as the BBC is forced to catch up.
19
Kew
19/03/2021 12:25:39 89 44
bbc
So many words used by the BBC to hide away the simple fact that Britain's rate wasn't the worse, or even in the top five, despite all the claims (i.e. lies) by the left-wing media that it is worse here than anywhere in Europe.
59
19/03/2021 12:28:58 6 10
bbc
do you live under a stone ?
1
19/03/2021 12:20:10 9 7
bbc
Expert analysis reports incoming.
60
19/03/2021 12:29:01 3 4
bbc
Johnson continually kicks the need for a Public Inquiry into the long grass so won't be getting expert analysis anytime soon
24
19/03/2021 12:25:59 124 28
bbc
650,000 deaths per year. A 7% increase is 45,500 extra deaths. Is this huge for a pandemic. If they are mostly old people will the figures for next year show a decline?
61
19/03/2021 12:29:02 70 15
bbc
The Independent reported 50,000 excess deaths due to flu in 2018. If these excess deaths are abnormal then 2018 was worse than 2019.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/flu-vaccine-deaths-nhs-ineffective-crisis-bad-weather-illness-2017-a8660496.html
19/03/2021 14:31:34 2 3
bbc
Your link says no such thing.
The 50,000 is the TOTAL excess deaths during an exceptionally cold winter.
Actual flu & pneumonia deaths were 29,516 for England & Wales in 2018 & 26,398 in 2019, so around half the total excess death figure.
19/03/2021 18:31:21 0 0
bbc
Because of lockdowns deaths from flu dropped drastically.
19
Kew
19/03/2021 12:25:39 89 44
bbc
So many words used by the BBC to hide away the simple fact that Britain's rate wasn't the worse, or even in the top five, despite all the claims (i.e. lies) by the left-wing media that it is worse here than anywhere in Europe.
62
19/03/2021 12:29:04 8 9
bbc
completely agree - grossly skewed and negative reporting
27
19/03/2021 12:26:13 16 26
bbc
Slow to lockdown Johnson has twice caused tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths, truly terrible that he hasn't resigned.
63
19/03/2021 12:29:07 8 3
bbc
No he has not. Stop rewriting history.
128
19/03/2021 12:34:55 1 2
bbc
I thought that was now normal practice for the left/liberals, revisionism rules brother!!
64
19/03/2021 12:29:07 5 6
bbc
Oh, is that all... all the agro for just a 7% rise on.
23
19/03/2021 12:25:56 645 127
bbc
Have we lost the ability to report actual information? In this instance I think a % is quite unhelpful. How many is normal and what was the outcome of the year in numbers so we know roughly how many extra died? How does that compare to the last 10 years worst year?

Half the reason people are so confused is that only half the information needed to understand something is actually reported
65
19/03/2021 12:29:18 264 42
bbc
Look further back than the 5yr ave. & the age adjusted total mortality rate for 2020 was only the 9th highest since 2000.
(The 2020 data was provisional, but if you want to follow the link to the main 1938-2020 database it was updated 8/3 and is identical, so can be considered complete)
https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathsintheukfrom1990to2020
200
19/03/2021 12:42:21 38 7
bbc
Thanks for the link.
Yes, every year before 2004 had a higher per capita death rate in the UK, and every year before 2009 had a higher age-standardized mortality rate.
The truth is that this pandemic has sadly been a blip in mortality but it should be seen in context. In fact mortality has been on a long steady decline in the UK for many decades.
237
19/03/2021 12:45:41 5 12
bbc
Now who's the one using a misleading description?
514
VoR
19/03/2021 13:06:11 3 1
bbc
That's partly because we had flu epidemics and no lockdown.
767
19/03/2021 13:16:47 2 2
bbc
refreshing to see that people have woken up to the 'fudged' figures based on just 5 Years data. I completely agree with the figures above as I have calculated them separately on the ONS website and reached the same conclusion.
833
VoR
19/03/2021 13:25:16 3 0
bbc
Don't forget that mortality trends downwards over time in most countries, including ours. In trended downward quite rapidly until about 2011 (I think it was) at which point the downward trend slowed a bit. You might get the odd blip (e.g. during a year with a flu epidemic that particularly affects the elderly), but the general trend is down.
16
19/03/2021 12:25:07 8 12
bbc
Well, as a starter for 10, how can “England rank seventh on this list (7.8%) with the UK eighth (7.2%)”. Either report as 4 separate countries or as the UK. But not both; that’s double counting.
66
19/03/2021 12:29:20 3 4
bbc
Are you Diane Abbott?
579
19/03/2021 13:04:01 0 1
bbc
:or Priti Awful Patel
6
19/03/2021 12:22:44 25 30
bbc
Got vaccinations right
Got everything else wrong
People pay the price and taxes
(£34bn for track-n-trace and millions for Nightingale hospitals that treated 23)
67
Kew
19/03/2021 12:29:21 8 3
bbc
So you think having a furlough scheme was wrong? Guess you didn't have to use it then.
36
19/03/2021 12:26:58 11 13
bbc
I must have personally saved a few hundred lives by staying at home but it doesn't look like it made much difference, so after my second jab, I'm off on holiday. Heartily sick of all the pious, behind the sofa brigade telling me to "stay safe".
68
VoR
19/03/2021 12:29:21 2 4
bbc
Clearly it did make a difference. That 7% would have been a lot higher. (Note that the 7% isn't necessarily all down to the virus, and indeed the impact of the virus could be more than 7% (since road traffic accidents and some other causes of death would be down relative to normal).
69
19/03/2021 12:29:33 16 5
bbc
whats normal? - The average mean line or the top/bottom of the 5 year average? - That aside, so it 7% higher giving a total of 697K - so thats around 50K, not the 120K+ we see thrown around everywhere...
117
Jim
19/03/2021 12:33:57 9 9
bbc
Less deaths from other respiratory diseases due to social distancing and masks, they work.
259
19/03/2021 12:47:42 0 0
bbc
120k from the start of covid to now, the 7% figure covers only 2020, in the first 3 months of 2020 deaths were below the 5 year average.
824
19/03/2021 13:20:13 0 0
bbc
avarage from 2015-2019 was around 600,000. 2020 was 695,000. an increase in raw numbers of 15%.

The 7% figure is an age adjusted normalised figure designed to compare different european countries. because our country has an old population, our number is skewed downwards by a lot. Its all explained in the ONS report, but the BBC didnt understand it, and is now spreading disinformation.
18
19/03/2021 12:25:28 614 293
bbc
I'm surprised by that 7% - with all the BBC's hysterical reporting I assumed it was 20% plus. And a lot of those excess death will be people who would have died this winter or next winter from something else.
70
MDK
bbc
You do realise that 7% is a massive number in real terms. Mothers, fathers, sons and daughters. And all you care about is how you digest the info from the BBC. If you don’t like the BBC.. get off here and go play in the traffic Removed
176
19/03/2021 12:40:19 1 1
bbc
Spoken like a nasty bully
231
19/03/2021 12:44:50 1 1
bbc
Well reasoned and not inflammatory response. Well done sir, you do yourself proud
71
19/03/2021 12:29:39 14 6
bbc
We all can say we should have locked down initially a week or 2 sooner, that is clear then in the Autumn/Winter we was hit by a variant which was considerably more infectious and deadly. The government did get vaccinations right with contracts a lot smarter than the EU signed. After many peoples most horrible year, we all want to see an end now and get on with life.
112
19/03/2021 12:33:12 4 8
bbc
People died because they partied over Christmas.
515
19/03/2021 13:06:15 0 0
bbc
Well done BJ and the cleaver scientists.
7
19/03/2021 12:23:10 1356 325
bbc
Let’s not forget that every country has recorded its mortality data related to COVID differently.

Just thought I’d get this in before the inevitable comparisons are made between us and other countries.

And let’s not forget the relative transparency between our figures and those of other less transparent nations
72
19/03/2021 12:29:44 187 128
bbc
That is a vital point. Only Belgium had a more stringent approach to making themselves look as bad as possible. Being overly harsh on ourselves does chime with the BBC Britain’s shameful past and broken present narrative.
278
19/03/2021 12:50:08 25 0
bbc
So you believe the BBC collates the numbers?
384
19/03/2021 12:58:17 1 8
bbc
Shack on the target sir.
7
19/03/2021 12:23:10 1356 325
bbc
Let’s not forget that every country has recorded its mortality data related to COVID differently.

Just thought I’d get this in before the inevitable comparisons are made between us and other countries.

And let’s not forget the relative transparency between our figures and those of other less transparent nations
73
19/03/2021 12:29:52 186 2
bbc
That's the whole point of this ONS report.
It is not comparing reported Covid figures but all deaths above the average.
It goes some way towards eliminating the different ways of recording Covid deaths.
74
SP
19/03/2021 12:29:53 248 57
bbc
Overcrowded , Obese and aged population in UK is the main reason for this.

Many countries with younger population like India and less obese population like southern Europe are not badly affected even though they are also affected by the pandemic
250
19/03/2021 12:46:35 190 7
bbc
Covid death statistics for India are largely unknown.
285
19/03/2021 12:50:30 4 1
bbc
It is too early for such kind of conclusions. Germany was a good example for talking the pandemic for long period of time but now UK is. Who knows what will happen after 1y.
435
19/03/2021 13:02:02 17 0
bbc
India has a younger population because the average age to die is about 54.
505
19/03/2021 13:05:50 5 29
bbc
The UK is not overcrowded. Anther myth promulgated by the unthinking!
There is no data to support that the deaths due to covid have any connection to obesity - the main ones are age and occupation (= lower income). But don't let the facts influence your biases
But have you forgotten the lockdown delays?

Its reckoned that Boris Johnsons dither in locking down in March cost an estimated 20,000+ British lives

Even more were lost because he tried his very best to save Christmas

Make all the excuses you want to my friend, the fact is many of the deaths we have suffered could and should of been avoided
700
19/03/2021 13:17:13 12 1
bbc
So you want a planetary population of young, slim people? The main problem, as you say, is overpopulation. There are just too many people, of any age or corpulence.
710
19/03/2021 13:14:26 2 3
bbc
Have a word with that johnson chap - what a state !
911
19/03/2021 13:29:07 5 0
bbc
If everyone had stuck to the guidance we'd have had a far far lower rate but too many people think they know better or just don't think at all, and still don't, or can't. Granted some have no choice as they can't afford to isolate and that needs to be fixed.
953
19/03/2021 13:32:19 6 1
bbc
Overcrowded, obese, aged and BAME population and open high-travel pre-covid economy.
19/03/2021 13:56:45 0 1
bbc
Brazil?
19/03/2021 14:19:06 2 1
bbc
So nothing to do with ill preparedness, an initial dismissive attitude by the govt, failure to implement lockdown early enough (Cheltenham Festival exactly one year ago probably led to thousands of cases), a useless track & trace system, and a reopening post lockdown far too soon? These factors were insignificant?
19/03/2021 15:08:40 3 2
bbc
Overcrowded. This is funny. Overcrowded cities, overcrowded housing, schools, the NHS. Why are we overcrowded, it is because of too much immigration, too many bleeding heart liberals. Well now the problem has come home to roost because we are going to have to pay much higher taxes to sort a problem that Enoch Powell saw coming. Excess death stats are meaningless
19/03/2021 15:15:20 1 0
bbc
Tell that to the Italians and the Spanish, French even depending on your geography.
19/03/2021 16:52:23 1 0
bbc
You really can't trust data from a country like India, it is largely under developed and most people that die don't get anywhere near a hospital
19/03/2021 17:38:55 0 0
bbc
Im sure China and Russia have been transparent with their figures.
19/03/2021 18:18:25 0 0
bbc
Nothing to do withbad Govt decisions then.Report this week sd 27000 deaths alone through late lock down before Xmas Now had it been a Labour Govt would you be making same excuses. Doubt it.
19/03/2021 18:20:54 1 0
bbc
Boringly repetitive, you posted this inane and inaccurate remark 2 minutes before this one. India has probably not recorded even 50% of their deaths
19/03/2021 18:22:51 0 0
bbc
People were killed by covid and nothing else - though it does seem to have killed off most of your brain cells.
23
19/03/2021 12:25:56 645 127
bbc
Have we lost the ability to report actual information? In this instance I think a % is quite unhelpful. How many is normal and what was the outcome of the year in numbers so we know roughly how many extra died? How does that compare to the last 10 years worst year?

Half the reason people are so confused is that only half the information needed to understand something is actually reported
75
19/03/2021 12:29:56 55 14
bbc
The BBC are poor at statistics.
140
19/03/2021 12:36:19 20 10
bbc
Very...
256
19/03/2021 12:47:30 7 8
bbc
Poor full stop
373
19/03/2021 12:57:08 1 0
bbc
The BBC is better at grammar though...
666
19/03/2021 13:14:49 2 2
bbc
The UK is poor at statistics... research, critical thinking and at taking a balanced view before snatching at blame... the BBC does what it does daily... take a 10yr, 20 yrs view even go back to 1938 it seems, as that really just adds more numbers to confuse and deflect from the curremt pickle.
818
19/03/2021 13:24:47 0 1
bbc
The BBC are poor...
39
19/03/2021 12:27:18 517 239
bbc
And dont forget 80% of covid deaths people had another issue that would have killed them withing a year or two.
76
19/03/2021 12:30:03 8 12
bbc
Or with in a week if they were of average age of covid death.
77
19/03/2021 12:30:05 6 13
bbc
Blame Johnson. He acted too slowly. We could have been in lockdown much sooner and at the very least they could have stopped all international travel to stop skiers returning infected from the Alps for example, and stopped spectators attending large sporting events like Cheltenham Gold Cup. The man's a clown and needs to go as do the rest of his incompetent party.
113
19/03/2021 12:33:16 3 3
bbc
Yeah, look how well France and Italy are doing, oh, and Germany and Spain and.......
All the lets bash Boris and the government nasty spiteful abuse the BBC have dished out over the number of deaths remember right at the start when the experts said wait until it is all over to compare notes well those chickens BBC are coming home to roost and you will be shown for the biased opinionated public braodcaster you are. Said it before say it again ...wake up and smell the coffee... Removed
78
19/03/2021 12:30:08 48 36
bbc
Commas cost nothing.
19/03/2021 15:29:54 3 0
bbc
Some people find our language very difficult - just like separating facts from their own bile and bias.
19/03/2021 16:30:04 1 3
bbc
And correct grammar is so much more important than posts with actual content?

We're not in an English exam, you know!
19/03/2021 16:34:25 2 0
bbc
1 key stroke.
19/03/2021 18:17:08 0 0
bbc
Except when you send a telegraph
28
19/03/2021 12:26:13 12 30
bbc
Through the UK's incompetence at containing the Kent variant, the rest of Europe are now suffering.
79
19/03/2021 12:30:12 1 3
bbc
UK scientists were able to report on it quickly because of genuinely world-leading sequencing capacity dedicated to monitoring the pandemic. What is done with that information isn't exclusively up to the UK.

I bet you blame China?
10
19/03/2021 12:24:30 26 13
bbc
So you would have been happier if the Nightingale hospitals were full?
80
19/03/2021 12:30:12 3 9
bbc
Nightingales were a farce, had we needed them (which thank God we didn't) we had nobody to staff them.
163
19/03/2021 12:38:57 5 2
bbc
A farce how disrespectful to all those who prepared for something even worse than it has been by majority doing as requested do hope we can include you in that
19
Kew
19/03/2021 12:25:39 89 44
bbc
So many words used by the BBC to hide away the simple fact that Britain's rate wasn't the worse, or even in the top five, despite all the claims (i.e. lies) by the left-wing media that it is worse here than anywhere in Europe.
81
19/03/2021 12:30:14 8 4
bbc
The UK has been very stringent regards recording I’m doubtful that many other countries have been as able or rigorous
82
19/03/2021 12:30:25 26 17
bbc
Considering we’ve had a few relatively low death winters and we were due a bad one 7 % is nothing.
Was it worth crashing the economy, trashing education, shutting down healthcare and taking away our civil liberties?
99
19/03/2021 12:31:34 13 18
bbc
So nobody you love has died of covid, you are lucky.
104
19/03/2021 12:32:15 7 3
bbc
Had we done nothing it would not have been 7%. Sounds like a success.
Problem is, we need a plan, we have a plan, the plan worked, did we need a plan?
106
Jim
19/03/2021 12:32:50 8 3
bbc
Yes, it would have been much higher if we didn't do it.
149
Pjt
19/03/2021 12:37:05 2 8
bbc
How many deaths would we have had if we hadn’t any lockdown! How many would not have died but would have long COVID. Where would all the COVID bodies or ill patients been left on the roads! What would have essential services looked like with no lick down or social distancing?
251
19/03/2021 12:46:45 5 3
bbc
Bear in mind that 7% is what happened despite the measures, not the amount saved by the measures.
Allowing 90% of the population to catch this to protect the economy would be insanity
347
19/03/2021 12:55:06 0 2
bbc
And ignorance is bliss
376
19/03/2021 12:57:17 0 1
bbc
Sorry but you don't have any idea what should have happened if the restrictions hadn't been introduced. The fact that nobody knows don't give you the right to reject measures taken in the face of extreme and uncontrollable danger.
28
19/03/2021 12:26:13 12 30
bbc
Through the UK's incompetence at containing the Kent variant, the rest of Europe are now suffering.
83
19/03/2021 12:30:35 4 2
bbc
The variant was first detected in Kent. That dos not mean it originated there. It was already in Europe.
169
19/03/2021 12:39:39 2 2
bbc
"The variant was first detected in Kent. That dos not mean it originated there. It was already in Europe."

--

I agree. But we allowed the Kent variant to have our largest wave in December/January. The rest of Europe are only getting this wave now. So it was allowed to grow in the UK before spreading in any quantity to the continent. No wonder they call it the English variant.
16
19/03/2021 12:25:07 8 12
bbc
Well, as a starter for 10, how can “England rank seventh on this list (7.8%) with the UK eighth (7.2%)”. Either report as 4 separate countries or as the UK. But not both; that’s double counting.