Covid-19: Hospitality bosses threaten government with court
15/03/2021 | news | business | 643
They say it is unfair pubs will have to wait five weeks longer than non-essential retail to reopen indoors.
1
15/03/2021 10:45:48 20 27
bbc
Good, let's put those jumped up numpties in court and watch them lie through their teeth about how pubs are super spreaders but of course schools don't spread viruses at all.
50
15/03/2021 10:47:46 13 6
bbc
Education is essential, pubs are nice to have.
52
15/03/2021 10:52:17 1 3
bbc
Question: do you think pubs are as important to society as schools?
99
15/03/2021 11:08:24 0 2
bbc
That has to one of the most stupid comments I have read today.

Schools, and food shops spread the virus, therefore we should open everything and just crack on.
So, using the same logic: Because I drink and it's bad for me, I should smoke, take crack, heroin and everything else going because I'm already doing one thing negative.
2
15/03/2021 10:47:42 123 32
bbc
There is no evidence and every time it is asked for the stock answer is "it's obvious".

Every time I have been to a pub or restaurant or a hotel since the pandemic started I have felt very safe - far safer than shopping in the local Tesco Express where people mingle and there are still loads not wearing masks.
5
OwO
15/03/2021 10:48:50 98 68
bbc
You don't think that the same rule-breaking behaviour is amplified when alcohol is introduced?
51
15/03/2021 10:51:33 30 17
bbc
Food shopping is essential; you don't 'need' to go to the pub. That's why the risk in supermarkets is accepted.
65
15/03/2021 10:59:40 17 7
bbc
The evidence they provided related to 3 outbreaks- you judge if they are similar to UK pub industry.....

An outbreak at a Karaoke bar in Japan

An outbreak at a Nightclub in Seoul S Korea

An outbreak at a bar near the wet market in Wuhan China
216
15/03/2021 11:30:24 12 9
bbc
The fact that you "felt very safe" isn't actually relevant as the virus in unaffected by your emotional response to the situation.
525
15/03/2021 13:42:09 3 0
bbc
As with all things there are good ones and bad ones. whether it's pubs or shops.
3
15/03/2021 10:48:14 137 37
bbc
Quit right, too. If shops can open, schools can open and hairdressers can open, pubs and restaurants should at least be able to serve outdoors.
39
15/03/2021 10:55:59 89 83
bbc
The pandemic has emboldened the government aided and abetted by the medical establishment and enforced by the police into qcontinuing to control and suppress people wanting to go about their everyday lives
79
15/03/2021 11:04:22 6 9
bbc
If you say so.
147
15/03/2021 11:13:57 8 15
bbc
no

these are NOT essential.

I marked down your comment.
164
mc
15/03/2021 11:15:23 3 2
bbc
and indoors as shops are indoors
251
15/03/2021 11:36:53 5 1
bbc
Which is exactly what will be allowed from 12th April.
373
15/03/2021 12:01:03 3 0
bbc
Did you read the article?

Outdoor service will be allowed on the same date that hairdressers can reopen
432
15/03/2021 12:20:19 1 2
bbc
Pubs will be able to serve outdoors from 12 April if they have a beer garden but those that don't have to stay closed until May. This is patently unfair.
584
15/03/2021 15:35:49 1 1
bbc
Pubs and restaurants are NOT essential, so they will be way down the list, maybe next year if sense kicks in!
590
15/03/2021 15:41:04 0 0
bbc
Isn't this about the number of risks involved as much as the level of different risks?
4
15/03/2021 10:48:18 53 17
bbc
I think they should be allowed to open with the right safety measures in place. Won't be like days of old for a while but the country needs it financially and mentally.
308
jon
15/03/2021 11:47:11 21 9
bbc
I think there is a big difference in people wearing masks wandering around John Lewis and those with a few drinks inside them wandering back and forth to the bar and toilets and pouring out on to the streets en-mass at kicking-out time.
2
15/03/2021 10:47:42 123 32
bbc
There is no evidence and every time it is asked for the stock answer is "it's obvious".

Every time I have been to a pub or restaurant or a hotel since the pandemic started I have felt very safe - far safer than shopping in the local Tesco Express where people mingle and there are still loads not wearing masks.
5
OwO
15/03/2021 10:48:50 98 68
bbc
You don't think that the same rule-breaking behaviour is amplified when alcohol is introduced?
12
15/03/2021 10:51:28 27 19
bbc
I am giving you my personal experiences, not hearsay or guesswork or what people *think* happens in pubs.
24
15/03/2021 10:53:01 25 17
bbc
There is a difference between evidence and puritanical dog-whistling.
Hope this helps
74
15/03/2021 11:02:42 11 13
bbc
No. The majority of transmission is in households where contact is unregulated
174
15/03/2021 11:23:28 9 10
bbc
People drinking at impromptu gatherings, both indoor and outdoor are more likely to spread covid.
And you'll never stop those gatherings.
Enough is enough.
538
15/03/2021 13:56:11 0 1
bbc
No, because the majority of rule breaking is wither teenagers hanging out together or grandparents visting their families - not people in pubs!
6
15/03/2021 10:48:56 11 28
bbc
Flip-reverse it.

Let hospitality open with the proviso that any deaths occurred due to transmission in their facility means they get taken to court.

How would they like them apples?
35
15/03/2021 10:55:34 4 2
bbc
The data tells us there wouldn't be many at all.
57
15/03/2021 10:58:47 1 3
bbc
Taking your stance, then people should be able sue the pants off the NHS. Too many 'heroes' doing tik-tok videos instead of scrubbing rancid wards
131
15/03/2021 11:16:28 1 1
bbc
By your logic, any employer or supermarket owner currently open should be taken to court.
145
15/03/2021 11:18:09 1 0
bbc
because then you would have to *prove* the transmission was "in their facility" to secure a prosecution.
425
15/03/2021 12:16:37 0 0
bbc
The big issue is proving that transmission occurred in their establishment.

Local councils could always revoke alcohol licences without recourse to the courts.
7
15/03/2021 10:49:17 86 46
bbc
"they said there is no "evidence or justification" to open shops five weeks before pubs and restaurants"

I think the argument against opening pubs & restaurants now could be evidenced by the images we saw last year. People (of all ages) get a few drinks in them and stop caring about social distancing, face masks etc. The difference in risk is in the conduct of the people.
21
Bob
15/03/2021 10:52:46 12 70
bbc
At least they have a reason for not caring. The old and vulnerable just seem to think it's someone else fault.
33
15/03/2021 10:55:07 13 7
bbc
That's just total nonsense. A picture tells a thousand stories, unsurprisingly the exception not the Norm is chosen for a picture by the press. The overwhelming majority of hospitality venues have been very safe- statistically so.
226
15/03/2021 11:31:21 12 5
bbc
Alternatively you could go to a massive 'vigil', not socially distance, and then rant and rave about the injustice of it all when the police move in to do the job you were quite happy for them to do when all they were doing was breaking up much smaller parties. Because, you know, COVID makes a distinction between people with a cause and people just having a good time! The world has gone mad.
415
15/03/2021 12:11:57 1 1
bbc
So where is your evidence, the government will need to provide it if the court asks. You can’t just close down businesses because you think it is a good thing to do.
537
15/03/2021 13:55:00 1 2
bbc
Then you can lead the defense for the government; the "evidence" you produce will be a few anecdotes from what you think you saw last year, and the pubs' evidence will be actual facts and hard data.

I know, its so easy to prefer a picture that fits your assumptions rather than reading words, numbers and graphs that present actual facts & evidence.
8
15/03/2021 10:49:57 93 46
bbc
Winge..winge.. There has to be a balanced approach you can’t simply unlock everything and then 6 weeks later face another wave you have to start somewhere do gradual and gauge the stats how quick or slow you can progress and let’s face facts most of industry have got way more support than many countries have done for similar sectors.
529
15/03/2021 13:48:15 7 12
bbc
Was reading the article probably too hard, or didn't suit your pre-typed nonsense?

The pubs are asking for an explanation that is fair, balanced, and argued on facts & scientific merit. As the facts do not support the govt timelines, then it is right to take legal action. Simple as that.

Comparison to support in other countries is totally irrelevant.
546
15/03/2021 14:07:35 2 0
bbc
Did you mean whinge whinge? Please use British spelling on the BBC website.
9
15/03/2021 10:50:05 20 14
bbc
They said it is "plainly irrational".

Yes, but that could equally be applied to almost all CV19 Government policy.
34
15/03/2021 10:55:07 9 5
bbc
You mean like the Government claiming you can only catch covid after 10 o'clock at night, and only whilst stood up ?

Because if you sit at a table before 10PM, you are fine it seems.

I simply can't imagine why anyone would view that as "plainly irrational" at all.
10
15/03/2021 10:50:53 174 82
bbc
Let hospitality open. Those who don't want to go out can stay at home. The police state must come to end
153
15/03/2021 11:19:53 80 29
bbc
Boris said he would be guided by data not dates.

So how do current cases, hospitalisations and deaths compare with the projections a month ago.

If we are running ahead of expectations the timetable must be advanced.
212
15/03/2021 11:29:50 19 13
bbc
Police state! Italy reopened hospitality recently and Covid soared. It's closed again. The fizzy stuff haddles peoples brains and takes away the little sense they had, in some.
230
15/03/2021 11:27:07 17 11
bbc
Police state? I wonder how you snowflakes would have coped being locked down for 5 years during the last war. If you protested about restrictions then you would be treated as a traitor - quite rightly.
The younger generation is weak and soft!
240
15/03/2021 11:34:33 16 9
bbc
Trouble is the people who don't want to go out want to stop other people going out too!
278
15/03/2021 11:42:08 11 13
bbc
You think the govt are going to give you back your liberties? Pull the other one! They've got us all right where they want us. We'll be 'allowed' out when they want us to be, and 'locked down' again too when needed. That's the thing with giving up freedom, the powers-that-be don't ever give it back.
282
15/03/2021 11:42:34 21 7
bbc
You genuinely think this is a police state? Give me a break, this is nothing compared to say North Korea or China. But you go ahead and compare yourself to the oppressed for simply being asked to improve your hygeine, keep your distance and wear a mask...
387
15/03/2021 12:03:15 7 1
bbc
Try talking to some-one who lived in E. Germany in the 60's / 70's. I'm sure they would think your idea of a police state differs from the reality of what one is.
394
15/03/2021 12:02:46 9 1
bbc
You have no idea what a police state is
509
15/03/2021 13:31:16 1 1
bbc
Those shouting about a police state will be strangely quiet when the Tories reduce the right to public protest!!!!
511
15/03/2021 13:32:03 1 3
bbc
You obviously have no comprehension of what it's like to live in a police state, if you did you would post such drivel.
588
15/03/2021 15:39:27 1 1
bbc
We haven't got a police state, that's the problem, time we did. If we were firmer like some European countries from the start we could have been almost out if this
11
Bob
15/03/2021 10:51:16 17 14
bbc
The fact is the GOV decided when these businesses can and can't trade so if they will need a very good reason (evidence) and much better compensation than they are giving.

And with current not before dates in 3 months time 'just to be safe' they don't seem to care what damage they are causing to the industry.

It's clear that most that need it will have been vaccinated by the end of April.
22
OwO
15/03/2021 10:52:48 7 10
bbc
Pubs can open for outside business in ~1 month, and some inside in 2. I agree they need support, but they don't have to wait "3 months".
29
sw
15/03/2021 10:54:11 5 3
bbc
But not vaccinated with 2 doses.
5
OwO
15/03/2021 10:48:50 98 68
bbc
You don't think that the same rule-breaking behaviour is amplified when alcohol is introduced?
12
15/03/2021 10:51:28 27 19
bbc
I am giving you my personal experiences, not hearsay or guesswork or what people *think* happens in pubs.
36
OwO
15/03/2021 10:55:37 29 18
bbc
In your experience, people behave better when they're drunk? Sounds like porkies to me.
45
15/03/2021 10:57:03 11 2
bbc
the long, roundabout way of saying 'no'
13
15/03/2021 10:51:33 113 20
bbc
In my (limited) experience of going to pubs and shops during COVID, pubs have seen much better behaviour with regards to distancing and mask wearing etc.

Shop behaviour is awful!
112
15/03/2021 11:11:19 18 1
bbc
Probably because we've been allowed to get used to it, so feel safer, so start to care less.
325
15/03/2021 11:50:48 5 1
bbc
Agree with this, even the dive pubs near me we're strict with the rules.

If you didn't obey the rules, you got kicked out.
400
15/03/2021 12:05:48 2 3
bbc
Never had a problem when shopping as Morrisons has policed it well and lets not forget you are in a very much larger indoor space than any pub I have ever visited.

I know of pubs that did not ask for your details and T&T was out the window with people travelling from 10 miles away to use such establishments.

Last pub I went to was crammed with folk and landlord NEVER wore a mask no details asked
423
15/03/2021 12:15:32 3 2
bbc
"In my (limited) experience of going to pubs and shops during COVID, pubs have seen much better behaviour with regards to distancing and mask wearing etc."

===

You are probably a lunchtime and afternoon drinker then. Last summer:
12 noon - perfect behaviour
6pm - still good
8pm - getting iffy
11pm - no regard for covid precautions whatsoever.

I live in sight of a pub and I know what I saw.
14
15/03/2021 10:51:47 111 57
bbc
I'm actually surprised more companies have not started legal proceedings against the Government for the wilful destruction of their businesses and livelihoods.

25
OwO
15/03/2021 10:53:32 88 44
bbc
No business wants to go to court and argue that other lives are less important than their profit. I'm curious if you think you can.
150
15/03/2021 11:14:32 11 16
bbc
Have you lost a family member to covid?
426
15/03/2021 12:17:05 6 0
bbc
"I'm actually surprised more companies have not started legal proceedings against the Government for the wilful destruction of their businesses and livelihoods."

===

And the winners in this situation - the lawyers!
451
15/03/2021 12:33:22 3 0
bbc
You have to be careful there, as there were 5460 alcohol specific deaths in the period Jan. - Sep. 2020 (source ONS.gov.uk). What would happen to hospitality should these families take out a class action against their businesses for their deaths?
15
15/03/2021 10:51:49 12 15
bbc
And so they should. The government are here to serve the people, and they have done an appalling job.
16
15/03/2021 10:52:33 10 8
bbc
How do the hospitality industry know that infections haven't spread within their establishments & then passed on to others? Certainly it's been proven to happen in countries like South Korea, whose tracing system, back traces to the original spreading event & not just immediate contacts as here.
The industry says infections rose after schools opened, and schools said not them!! All blameless
17
15/03/2021 10:46:13 10 12
bbc
At the moment the most desired object in the UK must be a pint of decent ale sitting on a pub table in front of you!
And a life feed to SAGE 'experts' dangling from a rope. Removed
456
15/03/2021 12:35:12 0 0
bbc
Just as long it is not being served at some-ones wake.
18
15/03/2021 10:52:39 47 16
bbc
He's quite right, hospitality has been demonised throughout this pandemic, inspite of being one of the most unified and organised industries out there. Its highly regulated, plenty of safety measures put in place and there is no evidence of any higher levels of transmission within hospitality - quite the opposite in fact. Non essential retail very clearly offers more threat of transmission
211
Bob
15/03/2021 11:29:44 21 9
bbc
Fake news. And this shows it. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55795608

Hospitality occupations are among the highest risk.

It isn't all about front of house.
19
15/03/2021 10:52:40 54 16
bbc
I have worked in the hospitality industry all my life and had everything I had ever worked for taken away from my in 2020. Little or nothing is being done for licensees, whose rents are being charged at full rate by PubCos and any grants being eaten up by rents and fixed costs. The night time economy is under represented and needs a Government minister
40
15/03/2021 10:56:04 50 5
bbc
The biggest problem in the whole pandemic is landlords carrying on business as usual, while every other business suffers. Not a case of the country pulling together to beat the pandemic, but everyone else going into debt or bust so landowners can continue to amass wealth.
315
15/03/2021 11:48:44 2 3
bbc
All you hear is poor pubs, restaurants, what about the supply chain that has had nothing
TOTAL JOKE while hospitality get business rates holidays rent deals never to be repaid COVID grants as well as Loans that are unlikely to be paid back I have lost count of the amount of pubs & restaurants working scams to milk this setting up new ltd co’s so they can get out of paying back when they go pop
20
15/03/2021 10:52:44 56 32
bbc
Some realism please. It's a priority thing. The more places where people mix the more the virus spreads.

Schools are really important so naturally they have to open first
Other retail - this is needed, people need to buy things eventually even if they have been putting it off
Pubs and restaurants are luxuries, so should be further down the opening list.

A court case is a waste of time and money
53
15/03/2021 10:58:24 28 21
bbc
People can buy things online. The social aspect of pubs and restaurants opening in a safe manner is far more important than being able to walk into a shop to do something you can easily do online. Ask the kids, seeing their friends again was their main reason for wanting to go back to school.
68
15/03/2021 11:00:37 7 2
bbc
3 million peoples' livelihoods are not valuable to you? How bizarre...
114
15/03/2021 11:11:28 9 1
bbc
3 million peoples livelihoods is a priority. The industry is a gateway to work for many young people, makes a lot of money for the treasury, is statistically safer than most environments. You're right though, perspective is needed. I hope you can see it.
273
15/03/2021 11:41:12 6 1
bbc
"My new sofa is more important than your celebratory Birthday meal out with family that you haven't seen in 12 months"
Interesting take.
284
15/03/2021 11:42:43 5 1
bbc
Houses of Parliament needs to be functioning n then society can open up...

No mention when MPs returning... Getting this draconian legislation removed is a priority...
543
15/03/2021 13:59:58 1 0
bbc
"people need to buy things eventually" - online, like they didn't stop doing.

Pubs & restaurants are also a necessity; for the staff, the supply chain, and all the secondary jobs & commerce.

The case isn't "shall we ban all luxuries"?
7
15/03/2021 10:49:17 86 46
bbc
"they said there is no "evidence or justification" to open shops five weeks before pubs and restaurants"

I think the argument against opening pubs & restaurants now could be evidenced by the images we saw last year. People (of all ages) get a few drinks in them and stop caring about social distancing, face masks etc. The difference in risk is in the conduct of the people.
21
Bob
15/03/2021 10:52:46 12 70
bbc
At least they have a reason for not caring. The old and vulnerable just seem to think it's someone else fault.
508
15/03/2021 13:30:20 0 1
bbc
If you believe last weeks headlines it will be the old boys that have been vaccinated that are propping up the bar until last orders. Apparently that age group is now out having a great ol’ time
622
15/03/2021 17:57:43 0 1
bbc
What arrogance. You Bob, must be a teenager who despises the older generation. Remember you tweet when you are over 65.
11
Bob
15/03/2021 10:51:16 17 14
bbc
The fact is the GOV decided when these businesses can and can't trade so if they will need a very good reason (evidence) and much better compensation than they are giving.

And with current not before dates in 3 months time 'just to be safe' they don't seem to care what damage they are causing to the industry.

It's clear that most that need it will have been vaccinated by the end of April.
22
OwO
15/03/2021 10:52:48 7 10
bbc
Pubs can open for outside business in ~1 month, and some inside in 2. I agree they need support, but they don't have to wait "3 months".
58
15/03/2021 10:59:01 2 0
bbc
It will be at least three months before they can operate at capacity, which unsurprisingly, gives them half a chance at actually being profitable
67
Bob
15/03/2021 11:00:16 4 1
bbc
Ooh yeh all that capacity pubs have outside to make any money. At least they have admitted the food with a meal thing was a mistake.
23
CEP
15/03/2021 10:52:54 17 21
bbc
The rise in September infections was more than likely due to the eat out to help out scheme and not down to schools who saw minimal transmission ... why don't these business people get their facts right
31
Bob
15/03/2021 10:54:46 16 2
bbc
More than likely? you have no idea.

What about University students traveling around the country?

Schools going back?

But not its the socially distanced easting at a table with a tub of hand sani to blame.
54
15/03/2021 10:58:29 6 1
bbc
It was more than likely due to the temperatures dropping and us entering the annual flu season.

Just as the summer drop in cases/deaths from end April to end September was more than likely die to it being the summer and so not the flu season.
73
15/03/2021 11:02:24 2 3
bbc
You could surmise using the same logic that it was also due to the introduction of face masks.....
103
15/03/2021 11:09:47 2 3
bbc
'why don't business people get their facts right' having just speculatively and sputiously stated that Eat out to help out 'most likely' drive infections in September. What utter drivel, there is no evidence to support that statement. There is, however, a lot of evidence that the return to University and a number of new variants DID have an impact though
330
15/03/2021 11:51:29 1 0
bbc
Hospitality opened on 4th July. There was no spike at all until schools and more importantly universities returned.
5
OwO
15/03/2021 10:48:50 98 68
bbc
You don't think that the same rule-breaking behaviour is amplified when alcohol is introduced?
24
15/03/2021 10:53:01 25 17
bbc
There is a difference between evidence and puritanical dog-whistling.
Hope this helps
32
OwO
15/03/2021 10:54:49 19 21
bbc
If people (some general % of the population) are going to break rules, do you think they will or will not be more likely to break rules when they're drunk?
48
15/03/2021 10:57:38 8 3
bbc
Another long way of saying 'no'
14
15/03/2021 10:51:47 111 57
bbc
I'm actually surprised more companies have not started legal proceedings against the Government for the wilful destruction of their businesses and livelihoods.

25
OwO
15/03/2021 10:53:32 88 44
bbc
No business wants to go to court and argue that other lives are less important than their profit. I'm curious if you think you can.
61
15/03/2021 10:59:29 15 23
bbc
I disagree. Other peoples lives are irrelevant. This is someone's livelihood. You can't start putting people that may or may not die ahead of yourself.
95
15/03/2021 11:07:24 19 15
bbc
This argument no longer holds water. A third of the adult population has had at least one dose of the vaccine and the second doses are being administered at a rapid pace.

Either you agree that vaccination works or you don't.
109
15/03/2021 11:11:03 19 5
bbc
May have been true a year ago, not any more.

If those in the top groups get their first dose, yes there may be a small increase in deaths as vaccines aren't 100% effective, but that will be case anyway, it's time to accelerate unlocking not hang around, 48 shops close every day and our economy is suffering.

In 4 weeks, non essential retail should open so should everything else.
170
15/03/2021 11:22:29 4 1
bbc
So could you take a burger chain to court to have them cease operating for the same reason?
195
15/03/2021 11:26:31 19 2
bbc
It's not about profit. It is about people's lives. Not just whether they are alive or not, but whether they have a life. And more and more people have no life as they lose their jobs and their businesses. We need to stop thinking that all that matters is being alive or dead. You can be alive but not really be living! And that is pointless.
223
15/03/2021 11:31:10 5 1
bbc
The onus will be on the government to prove their actions are correct. If they have then it will be case closed. If they don’t then the courts should decide;
316
15/03/2021 11:48:50 8 0
bbc
It's not about what's more important. These businesses employ lots of people who rely on their jobs for income. Anyone who says the economy isn't important is living in a dream land! Of course lives matter absolutely! But so do livelihoods! And with a year of almost being closed it's not fair to keep this up.
369
15/03/2021 11:57:54 9 1
bbc
This smug puritanism is also totally ignorant. How many lives does a total collapse of the economy cost?
582
15/03/2021 15:33:29 0 0
bbc
It’s not about lives ..
635
15/03/2021 23:12:44 0 0
bbc
Pre Covid what was the normal death rate, we have been killing each other since time immemorial, particularly grand children and grandparents
We have also lived with viruses for just as long and we are all still here on planet earth
Every breath you take, every move you make the virus is watching you
Boo
26
15/03/2021 10:53:39 8 17
bbc
First they came for the lockdown protesters, I said nothing as I wasn't a lockdown protester. Next they came for the reclaim the streets protesters, I said nothing as I wasn't a reclaim the streets protester. Then they came for hospitality workers, I said nothing as I'm not a hospitality worker. It's easy to see how tyranny can flourish, it only requires an excuse (Covid) and compliance.
27
15/03/2021 10:53:50 10 5
bbc
It seems to me that hospitality could open with the rule that only people from the same household can share a table. Measures introduced to stop transmission between staff and customers are likely sufficient, biggest transmission risk is between people sharing a table.
The difficulty is in policing this, and whether it would be viable for pubs.
41
sw
15/03/2021 10:56:42 15 2
bbc
People will of cause say they are from the same household, even if they are not.
90
15/03/2021 11:06:10 5 3
bbc
Good idea in theory and as you said policing is difficult, is an understatement. When such rules existed before, I saw in many pubs when walking by, groups of people who were the weirdest "households" ever, such as a group of 6 men all the same age watching sport on TV, and 3 I recognised as living on my estate, who I know had wives and kids.
268
15/03/2021 11:40:07 1 0
bbc
I think you're missing the point here. Everyone has been sat around a table with their own household for months now. Who would want to pay three/four/five times as much to do it somewhere else than get a takeaway delivered and some booze from the supermarket??
The attraction of going out to do it is to see someone different surely?
28
15/03/2021 10:53:57 231 53
bbc
Based on my experience of having to pop to my local Morrison’s on Saturday and the crowds of people in there not social distancing at all, it is frankly shameful that hairdressers, pubs and restaurants remain closed. These places invested a lot of time and effort into making their venues far safer than supermarkets appear to be. Open them up!
44
15/03/2021 10:56:58 63 19
bbc
WELL SAID - local Morrisons yesterday was a disgrace, there were too many people in - but, hey-ho,
46
Bob
15/03/2021 10:57:09 18 9
bbc
The fact the Gov kept changing the plan and advice has got to be to blame.

So many places spent loads on outdoor seating etc, for the Gov to make U turn
86
DrT
15/03/2021 11:05:39 4 4
bbc
Not Morrison's at Catcliffe was it? Where many of the staff don't wear masks, and where they pen the shoppers into the aisles with stacks of produce designed to slow you down and make you buy more - impossible to socially distance.
93
15/03/2021 11:06:46 31 13
bbc
Not much social distancing on Clapham Common either..but hey one rule for them another for sports fan and those who like a drink.
146
15/03/2021 11:13:25 23 25
bbc
People need food

THEY DO NOT need a hair cut or a pint of beer.
154
15/03/2021 11:19:54 9 7
bbc
Anybody having to shop in a 'Morrisons' has my deepest sympathy.
160
15/03/2021 11:21:15 24 4
bbc
The supermarkets are full because people can barely shop/go elsewhere. You would spread people out more by opening more places to go. Lots of people visiting mum's for mother's day yesterday - I think we have reached maximum tollerance for all this now. Goverment have brought us time with vaccines but now I think if there was a referendum on lockdown vs normality, the latter would win.
165
15/03/2021 11:21:40 9 5
bbc
That's why I go to Waitrose.
181
15/03/2021 11:25:02 5 1
bbc
I can only speak for my two local stores. I refuse to shop in either because of concerns over hygiene (months of grime on the sanitising dispensers etc, flimsy loo roll for wiping trolley handles), failure of management to mange social distancing in store. Boy racers in the car parks in the evening. Baskets of special offers at the entrances and exits with loads of people picking over the items.
235
15/03/2021 11:33:43 5 1
bbc
I totally agree with you. However, regarding Morrison's, (or any other supermarket for that matter) it depends on what store you visit and what time of day. My local Morrison's appear to be very well organised, with a member of staff at the entrance checking that shoppers are wearing masks, and if visited early in the morning, there are very few shoppers in there.
249
Dee
15/03/2021 11:36:42 12 1
bbc
Quick thank you to the supermarket staff who have kept us fed throughout the epidemic, at risk to themselves, and enduring a lot of abuse during the panic buying days. Puts other sectors to shame.
276
15/03/2021 11:41:19 5 3
bbc
I get your point, but food is a hell of a lot more essential than alcohol or haircuts...
321
15/03/2021 11:49:50 4 0
bbc
Why bother, we all know this government ignores high court judgements anyway and just does what it pleases
343
15/03/2021 11:53:43 0 0
bbc
Our Morrison's shop is very quiet, but then it does come on a van.
379
15/03/2021 12:01:48 3 0
bbc
Without doubt the safest place I have been in the past year was my hairdresser. She has spent a fortune on screens, aprons, masks, visors etc. And reduced the number of clients at any one time, so that only alternate basins are used.

I think all these businesses should re-open and money spent on employing inspectors, who have the power to close any business temporarily if they judge it insecure.
506
VoR
15/03/2021 13:28:12 0 0
bbc
The solution to a problem is not to expand the problem. It's probably to drop in at Morrison's (or whereever) and shut that particular store down for a fortnight if social distancing isn't being adhered to. After a couple of occasions, both businesses and their customers will get the message.
11
Bob
15/03/2021 10:51:16 17 14
bbc
The fact is the GOV decided when these businesses can and can't trade so if they will need a very good reason (evidence) and much better compensation than they are giving.

And with current not before dates in 3 months time 'just to be safe' they don't seem to care what damage they are causing to the industry.

It's clear that most that need it will have been vaccinated by the end of April.
29
sw
15/03/2021 10:54:11 5 3
bbc
But not vaccinated with 2 doses.
47
OwO
15/03/2021 10:57:32 4 2
bbc
The second dose is to extend immunity, not to grant it. First dose is fine for reopening as long as people get both.
30
15/03/2021 10:54:13 83 48
bbc
25 million vaccinated. That's all the vulnerable people that might die if they get the virus. Just open it all up and keep vaccinating.
38
Bob
15/03/2021 10:55:49 46 10
bbc
Makes you worried they will be going off infection rate instead of deaths well into the future.
162
15/03/2021 11:14:57 7 7
bbc
why are people still dying every day then?
234
CJ
15/03/2021 11:33:16 9 0
bbc
But the vaccine doesn't provide immediate immunity, it takes 3 weeks from the date of the first dose. In which case it's going to be another 3 weeks before all of the 25 million you mention are actually protected.
602
15/03/2021 16:30:51 1 0
bbc
That's not all the vulnerable people. I got a text offering me the vaccine on Friday as I have an underlying health condition - first appointment next week.

There are plenty of people still needing vaccinations before things are opened up more. You don't have to be old to be vulnerable, I'm 49.
23
CEP
15/03/2021 10:52:54 17 21
bbc
The rise in September infections was more than likely due to the eat out to help out scheme and not down to schools who saw minimal transmission ... why don't these business people get their facts right
31
Bob
15/03/2021 10:54:46 16 2
bbc
More than likely? you have no idea.

What about University students traveling around the country?

Schools going back?

But not its the socially distanced easting at a table with a tub of hand sani to blame.
55
CEP
15/03/2021 10:58:35 1 6
bbc
Really? I have first hand experience of what is happening in schools ... as for Universities it was the socialising in the pubs/clubs which was evident from the photos we all saw ...
24
15/03/2021 10:53:01 25 17
bbc
There is a difference between evidence and puritanical dog-whistling.
Hope this helps
32
OwO
15/03/2021 10:54:49 19 21
bbc
If people (some general % of the population) are going to break rules, do you think they will or will not be more likely to break rules when they're drunk?
7
15/03/2021 10:49:17 86 46
bbc
"they said there is no "evidence or justification" to open shops five weeks before pubs and restaurants"

I think the argument against opening pubs & restaurants now could be evidenced by the images we saw last year. People (of all ages) get a few drinks in them and stop caring about social distancing, face masks etc. The difference in risk is in the conduct of the people.
33
15/03/2021 10:55:07 13 7
bbc
That's just total nonsense. A picture tells a thousand stories, unsurprisingly the exception not the Norm is chosen for a picture by the press. The overwhelming majority of hospitality venues have been very safe- statistically so.
155
Bob
15/03/2021 11:20:25 10 5
bbc
If that's the case then why is hospitality one of the highest ranking on occupational risk for COVID?
9
15/03/2021 10:50:05 20 14
bbc
They said it is "plainly irrational".

Yes, but that could equally be applied to almost all CV19 Government policy.
34
15/03/2021 10:55:07 9 5
bbc
You mean like the Government claiming you can only catch covid after 10 o'clock at night, and only whilst stood up ?

Because if you sit at a table before 10PM, you are fine it seems.

I simply can't imagine why anyone would view that as "plainly irrational" at all.
119
15/03/2021 11:13:53 1 3
bbc
No, because after drinking from early evening through to 10, one is likely to suffer from reduced inhibitions and massively underestimate what a safe social distance is.
6
15/03/2021 10:48:56 11 28
bbc
Flip-reverse it.

Let hospitality open with the proviso that any deaths occurred due to transmission in their facility means they get taken to court.

How would they like them apples?
35
15/03/2021 10:55:34 4 2
bbc
The data tells us there wouldn't be many at all.
77
15/03/2021 11:03:58 2 2
bbc
Shouldn't be a problem then.
12
15/03/2021 10:51:28 27 19
bbc
I am giving you my personal experiences, not hearsay or guesswork or what people *think* happens in pubs.
36
OwO
15/03/2021 10:55:37 29 18
bbc
In your experience, people behave better when they're drunk? Sounds like porkies to me.
66
15/03/2021 10:59:54 29 20
bbc
So you are calling me a liar? I can't remember the last time I saw somebody drunk in a pub. And the staff certainly wouldn't allow it in the pubs I have been to over the last year - they need to protect themselves as well you know.

And my opinion or anyone else's for that matter is not evidence. Show me evidence that hospitality has been a bigger contributor to COVID cases than retail.
286
Pip
15/03/2021 11:43:31 8 5
bbc
If they're drunk it's more likely to be from a Supermarket. In a waiter served pub, a pint an hour is about as good as it gets. But don't let the truth get in the way of your little rant.............?
37
15/03/2021 10:55:45 17 22
bbc
Pubs, hotels, gyms, sports stadia etc should just ignore the advice of 'scientific experts' and politicians. There is no evidence at all that people caught Covid as a result of visiting these places, yet the overwhelming number of cases can be directly attributed to the rancid NHS hospitals
59
15/03/2021 10:59:13 13 3
bbc
No one knows where anyone caught the virus, other than when someone in a house test positive 5 days after someone else in the same house. Every setting can say, no proof it's spreading here, but we know it was spreading a lot more before lockdown than after.
70
15/03/2021 11:01:44 0 1
bbc
Our local hospital is like Oxford Street with people coming and going, filthy lifts and staff wandering around dirty corridors wearing "scrubs" & theatre footwear then going straight into so-called sterile areas. Is it any wonder that infection rates are high in hospitals.
30
15/03/2021 10:54:13 83 48
bbc
25 million vaccinated. That's all the vulnerable people that might die if they get the virus. Just open it all up and keep vaccinating.
38
Bob
15/03/2021 10:55:49 46 10
bbc
Makes you worried they will be going off infection rate instead of deaths well into the future.
193
15/03/2021 11:26:11 7 2
bbc
Especially worrying as over 50% of tests are now lateral flow. The current percentage of positive tests is around 0.4% As lateral flow tests have a false positive rate of 0.1% The number of positive test results is being inflated by about 10-15% due to these false results, which will allow the government to justify continued restrictions way beyond any real necessity.
449
15/03/2021 12:32:43 4 1
bbc
The infection rate matters as this is what gives the Virus the opportunity to Mutate. Maybe in ways even more devastating like killing kids or vaccine escape. The Scientists and Governments are charged with trying to prevent this happening. Would you prefer to be back to square one or worse in 6 months time?
3
15/03/2021 10:48:14 137 37
bbc
Quit right, too. If shops can open, schools can open and hairdressers can open, pubs and restaurants should at least be able to serve outdoors.
39
15/03/2021 10:55:59 89 83
bbc
The pandemic has emboldened the government aided and abetted by the medical establishment and enforced by the police into qcontinuing to control and suppress people wanting to go about their everyday lives
100
15/03/2021 11:09:03 14 12
bbc
The government want to make money for themselves and their mates and having a large chunk of businesses shut stops that. There is nothing in it for them to "control" us - sorry if that isn't exciting enough for you and your theories.

Now, if you want to talk about their incompetence, then go ahead.
157
15/03/2021 11:21:13 15 17
bbc
Police intimidation and abuse of power has been disgraceful. They have revelled in it.
There have been incidents nationwide, from a kid being told not to play in his front garden, checking peoples groceries, threatening to fabricate charges, and 'stop and account' which they do not have power to employ unless they suspect a crime is being committed.
They are rotten, as is our Government.
250
15/03/2021 11:36:50 2 0
bbc
To what end?
469
15/03/2021 12:42:32 4 3
bbc
During a global pandemic.....

Jesus christ you lot are entitled. If you had just abided by the rules we could have ended them ages ago
19
15/03/2021 10:52:40 54 16
bbc
I have worked in the hospitality industry all my life and had everything I had ever worked for taken away from my in 2020. Little or nothing is being done for licensees, whose rents are being charged at full rate by PubCos and any grants being eaten up by rents and fixed costs. The night time economy is under represented and needs a Government minister
40
15/03/2021 10:56:04 50 5
bbc
The biggest problem in the whole pandemic is landlords carrying on business as usual, while every other business suffers. Not a case of the country pulling together to beat the pandemic, but everyone else going into debt or bust so landowners can continue to amass wealth.
142
15/03/2021 11:17:55 5 0
bbc
Unfortunately the modern business model is to borrow as much as possible to finance a business so landlords also have loans to repay. The big headache will come when interest rates rise.
392
15/03/2021 12:03:44 2 2
bbc
Tax landlords (and ban them increasing rents for 2 years) so they help to pay their fair share for cost of Covid, along with supermarkets, Amazon, eBay, etc. There's a lot needed in this country to get fairness/level playing field. All companies who made a profit last year needs to pay their way in the Covid recovery by a government windfall tax - otherwise we public should boycott them.
531
15/03/2021 13:52:12 0 1
bbc
You seem to have confused "licensee of a pub" with "owner of a house that is rented out for someone to live in". I know, they both feature the word "land" but they really are very different things.

Pubs didn't get any meaningful support; tier 2 meant they were forced to close but were refused any help.
27
15/03/2021 10:53:50 10 5
bbc
It seems to me that hospitality could open with the rule that only people from the same household can share a table. Measures introduced to stop transmission between staff and customers are likely sufficient, biggest transmission risk is between people sharing a table.
The difficulty is in policing this, and whether it would be viable for pubs.
41
sw
15/03/2021 10:56:42 15 2
bbc
People will of cause say they are from the same household, even if they are not.
42
amb
15/03/2021 10:56:44 26 22
bbc
All so called vulnerable should be vaccinated by mid April so there's no reason to keep hospitality closed
The government keep saying vaccines are the way out
So why won't they let us out
69
CEP
15/03/2021 11:00:50 26 7
bbc
It takes 3 - 4 weeks for the vaccine to give reasonable protection hence mid May and not mid April
43
15/03/2021 10:56:51 15 17
bbc
The Government should de-restrict things as soon as possible and then only bring in any new restrictions after full debate in Parliament by our elected representatives.

The Government's current powers are unacceptable and undemocratic.
28
15/03/2021 10:53:57 231 53
bbc
Based on my experience of having to pop to my local Morrison’s on Saturday and the crowds of people in there not social distancing at all, it is frankly shameful that hairdressers, pubs and restaurants remain closed. These places invested a lot of time and effort into making their venues far safer than supermarkets appear to be. Open them up!
44
15/03/2021 10:56:58 63 19
bbc
WELL SAID - local Morrisons yesterday was a disgrace, there were too many people in - but, hey-ho,
473
15/03/2021 12:47:48 1 0
bbc
Tesco was the same with the store manager turning a blind eye to his responsibilities
625
15/03/2021 18:43:02 0 0
bbc
Including you obviously...
633
A C
15/03/2021 19:29:03 0 0
bbc
My local ASDA is just the same so I have stopped shopping there. Yet when open all the cafes and restaurants that I visited were totally Covid safe. I simply fail to follow the government's logic.
12
15/03/2021 10:51:28 27 19
bbc
I am giving you my personal experiences, not hearsay or guesswork or what people *think* happens in pubs.
45
15/03/2021 10:57:03 11 2
bbc
the long, roundabout way of saying 'no'
28
15/03/2021 10:53:57 231 53
bbc
Based on my experience of having to pop to my local Morrison’s on Saturday and the crowds of people in there not social distancing at all, it is frankly shameful that hairdressers, pubs and restaurants remain closed. These places invested a lot of time and effort into making their venues far safer than supermarkets appear to be. Open them up!
46
Bob
15/03/2021 10:57:09 18 9
bbc
The fact the Gov kept changing the plan and advice has got to be to blame.

So many places spent loads on outdoor seating etc, for the Gov to make U turn
29
sw
15/03/2021 10:54:11 5 3
bbc
But not vaccinated with 2 doses.
47
OwO
15/03/2021 10:57:32 4 2
bbc
The second dose is to extend immunity, not to grant it. First dose is fine for reopening as long as people get both.
24
15/03/2021 10:53:01 25 17
bbc
There is a difference between evidence and puritanical dog-whistling.
Hope this helps
48
15/03/2021 10:57:38 8 3
bbc
Another long way of saying 'no'
49
15/03/2021 10:57:50 37 7
bbc
I agree to a staggered reopening, but the debate about what opens first, non-essential shops vs hospitality is a little tit for tat as one has to be the unlucky one that has to wait a bit longer.

The real problem, is that businesses that are being forced to close aren't having their costs covered... if they were being covered, waiting that little bit longer wouldn't be a problem.
1
15/03/2021 10:45:48 20 27
bbc
Good, let's put those jumped up numpties in court and watch them lie through their teeth about how pubs are super spreaders but of course schools don't spread viruses at all.
50
15/03/2021 10:47:46 13 6
bbc
Education is essential, pubs are nice to have.
2
15/03/2021 10:47:42 123 32
bbc
There is no evidence and every time it is asked for the stock answer is "it's obvious".

Every time I have been to a pub or restaurant or a hotel since the pandemic started I have felt very safe - far safer than shopping in the local Tesco Express where people mingle and there are still loads not wearing masks.
51
15/03/2021 10:51:33 30 17
bbc
Food shopping is essential; you don't 'need' to go to the pub. That's why the risk in supermarkets is accepted.
1
15/03/2021 10:45:48 20 27
bbc
Good, let's put those jumped up numpties in court and watch them lie through their teeth about how pubs are super spreaders but of course schools don't spread viruses at all.
52
15/03/2021 10:52:17 1 3
bbc
Question: do you think pubs are as important to society as schools?
20
15/03/2021 10:52:44 56 32
bbc
Some realism please. It's a priority thing. The more places where people mix the more the virus spreads.

Schools are really important so naturally they have to open first
Other retail - this is needed, people need to buy things eventually even if they have been putting it off
Pubs and restaurants are luxuries, so should be further down the opening list.

A court case is a waste of time and money
53
15/03/2021 10:58:24 28 21
bbc
People can buy things online. The social aspect of pubs and restaurants opening in a safe manner is far more important than being able to walk into a shop to do something you can easily do online. Ask the kids, seeing their friends again was their main reason for wanting to go back to school.
101
amb
15/03/2021 11:09:24 8 1
bbc
Well said
But us adults aren't allowed to see our friends
575
15/03/2021 15:21:48 1 0
bbc
Be nice if us adults could see our friends too or is this still a one way street
23
CEP
15/03/2021 10:52:54 17 21
bbc
The rise in September infections was more than likely due to the eat out to help out scheme and not down to schools who saw minimal transmission ... why don't these business people get their facts right
54
15/03/2021 10:58:29 6 1
bbc
It was more than likely due to the temperatures dropping and us entering the annual flu season.

Just as the summer drop in cases/deaths from end April to end September was more than likely die to it being the summer and so not the flu season.
31
Bob
15/03/2021 10:54:46 16 2
bbc
More than likely? you have no idea.

What about University students traveling around the country?

Schools going back?

But not its the socially distanced easting at a table with a tub of hand sani to blame.
55
CEP
15/03/2021 10:58:35 1 6
bbc
Really? I have first hand experience of what is happening in schools ... as for Universities it was the socialising in the pubs/clubs which was evident from the photos we all saw ...
56
15/03/2021 10:58:45 20 12
bbc
Alanjohn 10:55

The pandemic has emboldened the government aided and abetted by the medical establishment and enforced by the police into qcontinuing to control and suppress people wanting to go about their everyday lives
##

With what aim in mind ?

Honest question.
105
15/03/2021 11:10:24 15 13
bbc
Because, having panicked originally, they now cannot admit that the over-reacted.

Everything since April 2020 has been the cover-up to try and hide the fact that they panicked.
152
15/03/2021 11:19:47 4 5
bbc
Objective; Simply to break the chain of CV19 transmission thereby restoring normality to everyday activities. Legislation is necessary to enforce strategies to achieve the objective because of the actions of Covidiots. An example of which is to partake in illegal mass gatherings of 30+, for whatever reason, which legally empowers the police to take action. Are you new to the UK ?
6
15/03/2021 10:48:56 11 28
bbc
Flip-reverse it.

Let hospitality open with the proviso that any deaths occurred due to transmission in their facility means they get taken to court.

How would they like them apples?
57
15/03/2021 10:58:47 1 3
bbc
Taking your stance, then people should be able sue the pants off the NHS. Too many 'heroes' doing tik-tok videos instead of scrubbing rancid wards
22
OwO
15/03/2021 10:52:48 7 10
bbc
Pubs can open for outside business in ~1 month, and some inside in 2. I agree they need support, but they don't have to wait "3 months".
58
15/03/2021 10:59:01 2 0
bbc
It will be at least three months before they can operate at capacity, which unsurprisingly, gives them half a chance at actually being profitable
37
15/03/2021 10:55:45 17 22
bbc
Pubs, hotels, gyms, sports stadia etc should just ignore the advice of 'scientific experts' and politicians. There is no evidence at all that people caught Covid as a result of visiting these places, yet the overwhelming number of cases can be directly attributed to the rancid NHS hospitals
59
15/03/2021 10:59:13 13 3
bbc
No one knows where anyone caught the virus, other than when someone in a house test positive 5 days after someone else in the same house. Every setting can say, no proof it's spreading here, but we know it was spreading a lot more before lockdown than after.
120
15/03/2021 11:13:53 2 0
bbc
Well I know that no one in Edinburgh caught covid in a pub since the beginning of October because they have been SHUT .
60
15/03/2021 10:59:26 36 26
bbc
With some of the cretins on here it makes me wonder if they are worth the effort in trying to keep them safe.
No discipline, backbone, and no thought for anyone else. Shameful!!
96
15/03/2021 11:07:30 6 9
bbc
Is that you Dominic?
That's how I feel about the kind of people who think it perfectly acceptable to steal a year from seventy million perfectly healthy people so that they feel slightly less 'anxious' shuffling around Morrisons.

And using faux concern for 'granny' as an excuse for their own bedwetting fear.
Removed
194
15/03/2021 11:26:19 5 4
bbc
I have to say your a obviously clueless when it comes to pubs and restaurants they are the safest place to go to, 24000000 plus have been vaccinated, thats the majority of those mainly at risk, if you dont want to go out then stay in thats your choice but sont force your choice on me or others.
25
OwO
15/03/2021 10:53:32 88 44
bbc
No business wants to go to court and argue that other lives are less important than their profit. I'm curious if you think you can.
61
15/03/2021 10:59:29 15 23
bbc
I disagree. Other peoples lives are irrelevant. This is someone's livelihood. You can't start putting people that may or may not die ahead of yourself.
17
15/03/2021 10:46:13 10 12
bbc
At the moment the most desired object in the UK must be a pint of decent ale sitting on a pub table in front of you!
And a life feed to SAGE 'experts' dangling from a rope. Removed
113
amb
15/03/2021 11:11:25 0 0
bbc
?? ??
63
15/03/2021 10:53:55 24 20
bbc
Once again hospitality puts profits before lives, NO ONE is that desperate for alcohol surely that they cannot wait until it is scientifically safe to do so.
78
15/03/2021 11:04:20 17 2
bbc
It has never been scientifically safe to drink alchohol. That is what makes it so much fun.
89
15/03/2021 11:06:00 8 6
bbc
Emotive knee-jerk garbage that has destroyed the UK economy, thrown millions on the dole, destroyed a generation of young people's lives and all because granny won't look after herself and needs seventy million of us to give up a year of our lives to try and buy her a few extra months in a care home.
562
15/03/2021 14:58:39 0 0
bbc
Everyone has been able to get cheap booze throughout the pandemic (from supermarkets). Pub goers miss seeing their friends and having a laugh. Mere survival is not living!
64
15/03/2021 10:55:35 15 20
bbc
Borises excellent leadership has saved this country first from the fialed eu supper state and then from a super virus and all these people can do is moan ! They should be thanking him !
76
15/03/2021 11:03:23 5 2
bbc
Are you "Match Fit" ??
80
sw
15/03/2021 11:04:25 5 2
bbc
You are being ironic, right?
94
15/03/2021 11:06:46 2 1
bbc
Are you sure that the virus hasn't effected your memory/ sanity?
166
15/03/2021 11:21:42 2 1
bbc
You need to go to bed with a hot water bottle and flush out the insanity you are suffering from. Even Boris knows he's mad a pigs ear of it.
2
15/03/2021 10:47:42 123 32
bbc
There is no evidence and every time it is asked for the stock answer is "it's obvious".

Every time I have been to a pub or restaurant or a hotel since the pandemic started I have felt very safe - far safer than shopping in the local Tesco Express where people mingle and there are still loads not wearing masks.
65
15/03/2021 10:59:40 17 7
bbc
The evidence they provided related to 3 outbreaks- you judge if they are similar to UK pub industry.....

An outbreak at a Karaoke bar in Japan

An outbreak at a Nightclub in Seoul S Korea

An outbreak at a bar near the wet market in Wuhan China
36
OwO
15/03/2021 10:55:37 29 18
bbc
In your experience, people behave better when they're drunk? Sounds like porkies to me.
66
15/03/2021 10:59:54 29 20
bbc
So you are calling me a liar? I can't remember the last time I saw somebody drunk in a pub. And the staff certainly wouldn't allow it in the pubs I have been to over the last year - they need to protect themselves as well you know.

And my opinion or anyone else's for that matter is not evidence. Show me evidence that hospitality has been a bigger contributor to COVID cases than retail.
81
OwO
15/03/2021 11:04:25 14 9
bbc
Yes, I am. Whether or not people are "drunk" (which they are, but if you insist on meaning "blind drunk"), alcohol does not lead to people behaving themselves.

I'm not making an argument about the transmissibility of the virus in pubs, just calling you out on pretending that people behave themselves better after drinking.
137
Bob
15/03/2021 11:17:12 11 9
bbc
Here is your evidence. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55795608

Hospitality is among the highest risk occupation.

Doesn't fit your blinkered view, but oh dear, what a pity, never mind.

Even if the above didn't exist, you still must prioritise reopening sectors. You can't reopen everything at once. And simply retail yields a bigger benefit to the nation, end of.
322
Pip
15/03/2021 11:49:58 7 3
bbc
Mate it doesn't what the truth is, if people don't want to believe, they won't.

In my local, you'd be out in a trice, if they thought you'd had one to many, so this 'drunken yobbo' stuff is smoke and mirrors..............?
22
OwO
15/03/2021 10:52:48 7 10
bbc
Pubs can open for outside business in ~1 month, and some inside in 2. I agree they need support, but they don't have to wait "3 months".
67
Bob
15/03/2021 11:00:16 4 1
bbc
Ooh yeh all that capacity pubs have outside to make any money. At least they have admitted the food with a meal thing was a mistake.
20
15/03/2021 10:52:44 56 32
bbc
Some realism please. It's a priority thing. The more places where people mix the more the virus spreads.

Schools are really important so naturally they have to open first
Other retail - this is needed, people need to buy things eventually even if they have been putting it off
Pubs and restaurants are luxuries, so should be further down the opening list.

A court case is a waste of time and money
68
15/03/2021 11:00:37 7 2
bbc
3 million peoples' livelihoods are not valuable to you? How bizarre...
83
15/03/2021 11:04:59 6 3
bbc
Who said they weren't valuable - i was talking about priorities.
42
amb
15/03/2021 10:56:44 26 22
bbc
All so called vulnerable should be vaccinated by mid April so there's no reason to keep hospitality closed
The government keep saying vaccines are the way out
So why won't they let us out
69
CEP
15/03/2021 11:00:50 26 7
bbc
It takes 3 - 4 weeks for the vaccine to give reasonable protection hence mid May and not mid April
102
15/03/2021 11:09:47 5 1
bbc
Perhaps the government could allow the vulnerable to be excused from the mandatory requirement to go to the pub just because it's open?
110
15/03/2021 11:11:05 4 1
bbc
Now justify why shops and hairdresser are any different.
37
15/03/2021 10:55:45 17 22
bbc
Pubs, hotels, gyms, sports stadia etc should just ignore the advice of 'scientific experts' and politicians. There is no evidence at all that people caught Covid as a result of visiting these places, yet the overwhelming number of cases can be directly attributed to the rancid NHS hospitals
70
15/03/2021 11:01:44 0 1
bbc
Our local hospital is like Oxford Street with people coming and going, filthy lifts and staff wandering around dirty corridors wearing "scrubs" & theatre footwear then going straight into so-called sterile areas. Is it any wonder that infection rates are high in hospitals.
71
15/03/2021 11:02:02 3 13
bbc
How about open non-essential retails and pubs & restaurants at the same time, both having to meet the same strict conditions however.
No alcohol sales and a limit to how long people may be on their premises for, say 25 minutes and no repeat visiting either. And masks compulsory for everybody, staff and customers, when standing with no exemptions whatsoever.
72
DrT
15/03/2021 11:02:17 8 4
bbc
Nice! Pull the race card. It affects everyone.
191
15/03/2021 11:20:40 4 1
bbc
thought only me had seen the race card come out the top pocket.good post.
23
CEP
15/03/2021 10:52:54 17 21
bbc
The rise in September infections was more than likely due to the eat out to help out scheme and not down to schools who saw minimal transmission ... why don't these business people get their facts right
73
15/03/2021 11:02:24 2 3
bbc
You could surmise using the same logic that it was also due to the introduction of face masks.....
5
OwO
15/03/2021 10:48:50 98 68
bbc
You don't think that the same rule-breaking behaviour is amplified when alcohol is introduced?
74
15/03/2021 11:02:42 11 13
bbc
No. The majority of transmission is in households where contact is unregulated
82
OwO
15/03/2021 11:04:54 7 5
bbc
How is that an answer to my question? Where it's transmitted has nothing to do with the effects of alcohol on behaviour.
75
15/03/2021 11:03:18 76 10
bbc
One thing for sure, after this is all over, I am not going to change what I am doing now. That is simply not wasting money in shops on things I don't actually need.

Rather than squander my war chest, as the government want me to do, I think I'll pay it off my mortgage.
104
15/03/2021 11:10:13 34 39
bbc
Don't then. No one is asking you to. This debate is about opening hospitality; not what you want to do on your weekend.
490
15/03/2021 13:09:01 1 2
bbc
And what does that have to do with the reopening of hospitality?
579
15/03/2021 15:30:17 0 0
bbc
Good move
580
15/03/2021 15:30:30 0 0
bbc
Good to see someone has learnt from the corvid event. As someone that never eats out, and has only bought goods on line for a decade or so, it has long mystified me why so many are so gullible and pay eating out prices. But then I made my own sandwich’s for lunch all my life. While workmates complained about money while munching on cafe bought food every day. Fools and their money.
64
15/03/2021 10:55:35 15 20
bbc
Borises excellent leadership has saved this country first from the fialed eu supper state and then from a super virus and all these people can do is moan ! They should be thanking him !
76
15/03/2021 11:03:23 5 2
bbc
Are you "Match Fit" ??
35
15/03/2021 10:55:34 4 2
bbc
The data tells us there wouldn't be many at all.
77
15/03/2021 11:03:58 2 2
bbc
Shouldn't be a problem then.
63
15/03/2021 10:53:55 24 20
bbc
Once again hospitality puts profits before lives, NO ONE is that desperate for alcohol surely that they cannot wait until it is scientifically safe to do so.
78
15/03/2021 11:04:20 17 2
bbc
It has never been scientifically safe to drink alchohol. That is what makes it so much fun.
3
15/03/2021 10:48:14 137 37
bbc
Quit right, too. If shops can open, schools can open and hairdressers can open, pubs and restaurants should at least be able to serve outdoors.
79
15/03/2021 11:04:22 6 9
bbc
If you say so.
64
15/03/2021 10:55:35 15 20
bbc
Borises excellent leadership has saved this country first from the fialed eu supper state and then from a super virus and all these people can do is moan ! They should be thanking him !
80
sw
15/03/2021 11:04:25 5 2
bbc
You are being ironic, right?
66
15/03/2021 10:59:54 29 20
bbc
So you are calling me a liar? I can't remember the last time I saw somebody drunk in a pub. And the staff certainly wouldn't allow it in the pubs I have been to over the last year - they need to protect themselves as well you know.

And my opinion or anyone else's for that matter is not evidence. Show me evidence that hospitality has been a bigger contributor to COVID cases than retail.
81
OwO
15/03/2021 11:04:25 14 9
bbc
Yes, I am. Whether or not people are "drunk" (which they are, but if you insist on meaning "blind drunk"), alcohol does not lead to people behaving themselves.

I'm not making an argument about the transmissibility of the virus in pubs, just calling you out on pretending that people behave themselves better after drinking.
136
15/03/2021 11:17:08 9 9
bbc
Then you should easily be able to provide evidence of all these drunk people spreading the virus. Go on then.
74
15/03/2021 11:02:42 11 13
bbc
No. The majority of transmission is in households where contact is unregulated
82
OwO
15/03/2021 11:04:54 7 5
bbc
How is that an answer to my question? Where it's transmitted has nothing to do with the effects of alcohol on behaviour.
68
15/03/2021 11:00:37 7 2
bbc
3 million peoples' livelihoods are not valuable to you? How bizarre...
83
15/03/2021 11:04:59 6 3
bbc
Who said they weren't valuable - i was talking about priorities.
329
15/03/2021 11:51:18 3 1
bbc
We can't keep throwing everyone and everything else over board!
84
15/03/2021 11:05:03 6 15
bbc
Couldn't care less if they never reopened
92
15/03/2021 11:06:38 5 4
bbc
Thanks for your contribution
140
Bob
15/03/2021 11:17:18 2 0
bbc
What sort of sad act never goes to a pub?
85
15/03/2021 11:05:29 3 9
bbc
I'd shut you lot down for good.
117
15/03/2021 11:12:32 3 0
bbc
You're a bundle of happiness.
28
15/03/2021 10:53:57 231 53
bbc
Based on my experience of having to pop to my local Morrison’s on Saturday and the crowds of people in there not social distancing at all, it is frankly shameful that hairdressers, pubs and restaurants remain closed. These places invested a lot of time and effort into making their venues far safer than supermarkets appear to be. Open them up!
86
DrT
15/03/2021 11:05:39 4 4
bbc
Not Morrison's at Catcliffe was it? Where many of the staff don't wear masks, and where they pen the shoppers into the aisles with stacks of produce designed to slow you down and make you buy more - impossible to socially distance.
87
15/03/2021 11:00:18 4 6
bbc
Its widely acknowledged and proven that the greatest transmission is within education, which undoubtedly now mean cases rise and the lockdown extended. Should have kept the schools closed for at least until after Easter and opened up non essential business and hospitality first.
118
15/03/2021 11:12:45 1 2
bbc
Lockdown again? Are you mad? The damage is massive. We have to start living with the virus now, not keep living in fear of it.
252
15/03/2021 11:37:01 1 1
bbc
Sorry Andy, transmission or not, the kids have lost enough to protect adults. The needs of children outweigh yours and mine and should have been put first long ago. My grandfather ( born in 1900) would always have put children first, then the elderly and finally the fit healthy adults.... we in the middle have to suck it up a bit longer.
88
15/03/2021 11:05:53 8 7
bbc
Those of you who will use the argument that opening pubs will cause cases to rise, must surely be of the opinion the vaccines don't work?

It's right that the position of shops opening before hospitality based on the same data is indefensible.
173
15/03/2021 11:23:27 5 0
bbc
.....the vaccination is a two part process, thus you are not 'vaccinated' as such until it is completed. The govt' have worked out when the majority will have reached full vaccinated state and things will then be relaxed, (they have said).
63
15/03/2021 10:53:55 24 20
bbc
Once again hospitality puts profits before lives, NO ONE is that desperate for alcohol surely that they cannot wait until it is scientifically safe to do so.
89
15/03/2021 11:06:00 8 6
bbc
Emotive knee-jerk garbage that has destroyed the UK economy, thrown millions on the dole, destroyed a generation of young people's lives and all because granny won't look after herself and needs seventy million of us to give up a year of our lives to try and buy her a few extra months in a care home.
124
15/03/2021 11:15:03 4 1
bbc
You obviously don't understand the reason for the lockdown which is not so much to save granny's life but to stop the hospitals being totally clogged with covid patients to the extent other people could not be treated and health workers overwhelmed. Unless you think covid sufferers should not be able to access treatment?
27
15/03/2021 10:53:50 10 5
bbc
It seems to me that hospitality could open with the rule that only people from the same household can share a table. Measures introduced to stop transmission between staff and customers are likely sufficient, biggest transmission risk is between people sharing a table.
The difficulty is in policing this, and whether it would be viable for pubs.
90
15/03/2021 11:06:10 5 3
bbc
Good idea in theory and as you said policing is difficult, is an understatement. When such rules existed before, I saw in many pubs when walking by, groups of people who were the weirdest "households" ever, such as a group of 6 men all the same age watching sport on TV, and 3 I recognised as living on my estate, who I know had wives and kids.
91
15/03/2021 11:06:36 13 12
bbc
They are correct in their assessment. Pubs and pub-goers have been harshly and unfairly targeted by these lockdowns, done on the whims of ministers and a handful of power-crazed scientists.

Carefully-managed pubs that are awash with sanitizer have been forced to close, while schools and supermarkets, many of them operating with far lower standards of cleanliness, have been allowed to open.
84
15/03/2021 11:05:03 6 15
bbc
Couldn't care less if they never reopened
92
15/03/2021 11:06:38 5 4
bbc
Thanks for your contribution
361
15/03/2021 11:58:24 1 0
bbc
Best comment yet!
28
15/03/2021 10:53:57 231 53
bbc
Based on my experience of having to pop to my local Morrison’s on Saturday and the crowds of people in there not social distancing at all, it is frankly shameful that hairdressers, pubs and restaurants remain closed. These places invested a lot of time and effort into making their venues far safer than supermarkets appear to be. Open them up!
93
15/03/2021 11:06:46 31 13
bbc
Not much social distancing on Clapham Common either..but hey one rule for them another for sports fan and those who like a drink.
115
15/03/2021 11:11:44 12 13
bbc
Who is 'them'?
And 'they' might well also enjoy sports and a drink. Certainly wasn't one rule for 'them'. Far from it!
463
15/03/2021 12:38:57 3 0
bbc
and another for all the BLM protesters too
64
15/03/2021 10:55:35 15 20
bbc
Borises excellent leadership has saved this country first from the fialed eu supper state and then from a super virus and all these people can do is moan ! They should be thanking him !
94
15/03/2021 11:06:46 2 1
bbc
Are you sure that the virus hasn't effected your memory/ sanity?
130
15/03/2021 11:16:19 2 0
bbc
or spelling, or grammar?
25
OwO
15/03/2021 10:53:32 88 44
bbc
No business wants to go to court and argue that other lives are less important than their profit. I'm curious if you think you can.
95
15/03/2021 11:07:24 19 15
bbc
This argument no longer holds water. A third of the adult population has had at least one dose of the vaccine and the second doses are being administered at a rapid pace.

Either you agree that vaccination works or you don't.
60
15/03/2021 10:59:26 36 26
bbc
With some of the cretins on here it makes me wonder if they are worth the effort in trying to keep them safe.
No discipline, backbone, and no thought for anyone else. Shameful!!
96
15/03/2021 11:07:30 6 9
bbc
Is that you Dominic?
285
15/03/2021 11:43:27 0 4
bbc
No it's Keir Stammer ;o)
60
15/03/2021 10:59:26 36 26
bbc
With some of the cretins on here it makes me wonder if they are worth the effort in trying to keep them safe.
No discipline, backbone, and no thought for anyone else. Shameful!!
That's how I feel about the kind of people who think it perfectly acceptable to steal a year from seventy million perfectly healthy people so that they feel slightly less 'anxious' shuffling around Morrisons.

And using faux concern for 'granny' as an excuse for their own bedwetting fear.
Removed
98
15/03/2021 11:07:57 16 14
bbc
"Two of the biggest names in hospitality have threatened to take the government to court over its plans to release England from lockdown"

Waste your money, we have a lockdown release plan, if you don't like it. TOUGH...
161
15/03/2021 11:14:54 7 1
bbc
YOU don't like it, tough stay in.
1
15/03/2021 10:45:48 20 27
bbc
Good, let's put those jumped up numpties in court and watch them lie through their teeth about how pubs are super spreaders but of course schools don't spread viruses at all.
99
15/03/2021 11:08:24 0 2
bbc
That has to one of the most stupid comments I have read today.

Schools, and food shops spread the virus, therefore we should open everything and just crack on.
So, using the same logic: Because I drink and it's bad for me, I should smoke, take crack, heroin and everything else going because I'm already doing one thing negative.
39
15/03/2021 10:55:59 89 83
bbc
The pandemic has emboldened the government aided and abetted by the medical establishment and enforced by the police into qcontinuing to control and suppress people wanting to go about their everyday lives
100
15/03/2021 11:09:03 14 12
bbc
The government want to make money for themselves and their mates and having a large chunk of businesses shut stops that. There is nothing in it for them to "control" us - sorry if that isn't exciting enough for you and your theories.

Now, if you want to talk about their incompetence, then go ahead.
238
15/03/2021 11:34:19 5 3
bbc
Given the enormous transfer of wealth towards the already wealthy that has happened as a result of closures of small business, I don't think your argument actually makes sense.
It is simply an observed fact that restrictions make rich people richer (although there is sector dependence, so this isn't true for e.g. airlines).
359
15/03/2021 11:55:42 1 1
bbc
I don't think you understand the lust for power.