Cumbria coal mine: Public inquiry after government U-turn
12/03/2021 | news | politics | 2,074
Ministers say "increased" controversy over the Cumbria mine means a public inquiry is needed.
1
12/03/2021 10:27:41 39 37
bbc
Another U turn by the government?

That's because they are nodding dog idiots led by a clown and don't have a clue what they are doing.
141
12/03/2021 10:52:03 28 10
bbc
No, whilst I do blame the government for bowing to these people, the main blame lies at the feet of those endlessly lobbying and pressurising for schemes like this to be stopped in their tracks. They don't care about the 500 new high quality engineering jobs that'll be lost, or the fact it'll make precisely naff all difference - this new mine would be 100% better environmentally than China's.
624
12/03/2021 12:01:35 1 1
bbc
You would prefer a government that "Is not for turning!? that works.
12/03/2021 13:18:17 2 2
bbc
If you think the Evil Tories care about English coal mines or the English steel industry, then you have obviously no idea about recent history when they let both sectors die out. They relentlessly argued they were doing the right thing because they said producing English coal and English steel was simply not economic.
2
12/03/2021 10:27:55 17 8
bbc
So many u-turns around this mine, I'm getting dizzy!
20
12/03/2021 10:30:57 10 5
bbc
They should really just replace it with a roundabout
30
12/03/2021 10:32:18 0 2
bbc
It's not a mine anymore its a merry-go-round!
3
Bob
12/03/2021 10:28:04 18 16
bbc
All this means is coal will now be transports from a country that doesn't give a damn, causing more emissions than required.

A short-sighted view from green campaigners as usual.
12
12/03/2021 10:30:17 10 15
bbc
Green campaigners = scientists and experts.
Bob = opinion based on reading random websites.

Who to believe?
17
12/03/2021 10:30:35 1 1
bbc
Then ask the Government why they conceded to a u-turn on it, as soon as they made that decision they took responsibility for the matter.
26
12/03/2021 10:32:01 0 4
bbc
Yeah but maybe the steel industry will find ways of producing steel wise lower carbon footprint as a result of this. Necessity being the mother of invention and all that.
49
12/03/2021 10:37:39 0 3
bbc
And the 85% being transported and sold to Europe as in the license agreement, how is that causing less emission than importing from abroad the 15% the mine would have produced for UK industry ?
4
12/03/2021 10:28:29 28 28
bbc
A good U turn from a bad government.
34
12/03/2021 10:34:13 17 10
bbc
And the latest of far too many, a clueless government led reactively by public opinion, at great cost to us all.
170
12/03/2021 10:55:31 3 3
bbc
There's nothing good about it.

This bourgeoisie lefty viewpoint, honestly.

How do you justify risking 500 good quality engineering sector jobs, when the fact is if we don't build this mine, the coal would be sourced elsewhere from far older, less environmentally efficient mines overseas, with all the transportation CO2 etc on top?

It's like you're incapable of thinking even two moves ahead?
5
12/03/2021 10:28:52 7 9
bbc
The government can do better than new coal mines.
6
12/03/2021 10:29:00 7 12
bbc
Coal is a dead duck. Any jobs created would be very short term. There needs to be ideas about what jobs can be created for the next 30 years not the next five. Otherwise the area will be back to square one in just a few years time.
545
12/03/2021 11:51:08 2 1
bbc
Where do we get coal for steel manufacturing?
7
12/03/2021 10:29:04 12 16
bbc
WHY was this EVER considered a good idea? The employment that it would bring would only be short term and then we would be left with an obsolete workforce again who have skills that are outdated.
12/03/2021 20:32:56 1 0
bbc
What is the expected life-span of the mine? It could be 50-80 years if the reserves are there to mine.
8
12/03/2021 10:29:39 12 9
bbc
See how long non mining lasts, when a MP with shares finds out he lost money and the company start lobbying I can see another u-turn on the cards with a reduced mining capacity for a longer period.
103
12/03/2021 10:33:07 9 6
bbc
i hope you're not suggesting a tory my be looking after his own interests here, thats a staggering thought.
9
12/03/2021 10:29:57 16 12
bbc
Just one of the many promises the Tories made to get former red wall votes

So no surprise it's going badly
10
12/03/2021 10:30:12 8 8
bbc
The Tories and U-Turns: Name a more iconic duo
42
12/03/2021 10:35:54 7 6
bbc
Labour and anti-Semitism?
11
12/03/2021 10:30:15 7 3
bbc
What will we put on our barbecues this summer now?
31
12/03/2021 10:33:00 15 23
bbc
tories
65
12/03/2021 10:40:56 4 2
bbc
Use dried dung however it might make the food taste funny, but hey it's natural so must good, right ?
82
12/03/2021 10:42:43 1 1
bbc
Hopefully food you want to cook and eat.

Best to use non smoke fuels or gas to cook it with dependent on your barbie (no not the doll).
94
12/03/2021 10:44:18 2 1
bbc
Oh and don't use dry wood or wood pellets as it produces too much pollution.
96
12/03/2021 10:44:27 5 1
bbc
Uhm Charcoal which is a product of burning wood in the absence of oxygen? you have never actually used coal on your BBQ i would suggest as it burns to hot, and the anthracite they are mining would melt your BBQ.
319
12/03/2021 11:19:51 1 1
bbc
Wood charcoal could be used to cook whatever is in the fridge, Boris would get a good roasting :-)
3
Bob
12/03/2021 10:28:04 18 16
bbc
All this means is coal will now be transports from a country that doesn't give a damn, causing more emissions than required.

A short-sighted view from green campaigners as usual.
12
12/03/2021 10:30:17 10 15
bbc
Green campaigners = scientists and experts.
Bob = opinion based on reading random websites.

Who to believe?
53
12/03/2021 10:38:10 7 3
bbc
Real scientists aren’t green, they are non-political, and would also tell you the impact of travelling coal into the U.K. to make much needed steel is more than the mine itself.

As for Bob, many Bobs out there have access to University websites & papers, and the Greens are on the web themselves....... don’t dis Bob, he/she is looking for a considered argument not blinkered green.
13
12/03/2021 10:30:20 7 14
bbc
On he 100% guaranteed with this corrupt incompetent Government are “U” turns at every difficulty they face.....maybe time to backtrack on Brexit? I fully expect a backlash from ultra right wing and gammons who only have there own interests at heart and ignore the plight of the rest of the UK workers and SME emp'yers
87
12/03/2021 10:43:27 4 1
bbc
Those that cannot win an argument resort to insults. I am far from being rightwing, I belong to a trade union, I have voted Liberal, Labour and LD for most of my adult life. I do not have a personal interest to defend and I am a well educated freethinker. I very much care about the poorer parts of the U.K. So, what is truthful about your comment?
14
12/03/2021 10:30:26 274 34
bbc
If we have an ongoing need for coal, irrespective of achieving the most optimistic objectives for elimination of fossil fuels in our economy, then it makes sense to reduce our import requirement while providing employment for our own people.
112
12/03/2021 10:46:31 284 96
bbc
Unfortunately the PC brigade and the woke are letting their own agenda get in the way of economic realism.
129
12/03/2021 10:49:00 44 22
bbc
At least 500 much-needed manufacturing jobs depend on this scheme! We can't all work in council offices.

Still, let's stop this in its tracks, because it'll make a bunch of virtue-signalling bourgeoisie lefties feel better about themselves, in spite of the likes of China building two of these every month or whatever.

Makes me sick to my stomach to be honest!
231
12/03/2021 11:05:22 16 4
bbc
but 85% of it would be for export so is it better to export it than import it?
601
12/03/2021 11:58:25 4 1
bbc
"If"... the fact is that steel can be made without metallurgical coal. "If" we're committed to dropping one of the most polluting manufacturing routes there is.
850
12/03/2021 12:40:48 3 1
bbc
But this scheme needs to export 85% of the output to make it viable. Where is that market, and how much will it add to greenhouse gases?
853
12/03/2021 12:41:20 4 1
bbc
Why didn't that apply when Thatcher decimated the coal industry in the 80s.
12/03/2021 13:50:36 0 1
bbc
the compnay plans to export 90% of it's production. If the mine were planned ONLY to serve the domestic market this migth stand, but it doesn't.
12/03/2021 17:49:54 2 1
bbc
There is nothing 'GREEN' about burning fossil fuel!!
13/03/2021 12:38:05 2 0
bbc
whatever fossil fuels we remove China,Russia,America, Brasil, India and many many others will continue to burn
15
12/03/2021 10:30:30 9 14
bbc
Another fracking debacle. At least it was stopped before sites were disturbed!,
16
12/03/2021 10:30:33 263 42
bbc
absolute joke, in other news GE will will be producing Wind turbines in teeside for a large scale project. How will this steel be made without coking coal for these turbines. We would rather import it in to make use feel better!
57
12/03/2021 10:39:05 77 96
bbc
Cheep China imports are what the Tory party were happy to have while the UK was part of the EU. The UK steel production plants are reported to be on the way out. That's free markets for you. No protection against countries that go low in numerous ways, no UK jobs.
296
12/03/2021 11:15:54 3 0
bbc
For steel industry in UK & EU, with 85% being exported to Europe.
Surely ecologically better until steel production in UK improves for small amount to be imported.

https://www.sei.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/hydrogen-steelmaking-for-a-low-carbon-economy.pdf

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56109690

https://www.greenpeace.org.uk/news/government-coal-mine-robert-jenrick-climate/
523
12/03/2021 11:48:50 6 0
bbc
Agree. but TEESSIDE please - not the 'ide' of the Tees or 'side' of the Tee. Broke my heart that Sunderland's Northern Spire bridge was imported from Belgium when you think of what bridges world-wide were made on the Tees in the past.
12/03/2021 13:27:24 1 3
bbc
We only import what we need. If this mine is opened it will export eighty five percent because we don't need it.
12/03/2021 13:37:10 0 1
bbc
what parts of wind turbines are made with steel?
13/03/2021 16:10:33 0 0
bbc
You can make steel without coking coal. There are only two things you need - to exceed the melting point of iron, and to have a ready supply of pure carbon. Neither requires coal, and the second precludes most of the coal in Britain due to contaminants.
3
Bob
12/03/2021 10:28:04 18 16
bbc
All this means is coal will now be transports from a country that doesn't give a damn, causing more emissions than required.

A short-sighted view from green campaigners as usual.
17
12/03/2021 10:30:35 1 1
bbc
Then ask the Government why they conceded to a u-turn on it, as soon as they made that decision they took responsibility for the matter.
18
12/03/2021 10:30:38 8 9
bbc
"The saga of this mine is a symptom of a government that isn't serious about its climate ambitions and refuses to invest at scale in a green future to provide the jobs that workers have a right to expect."

Only there won't be any jobs because everything will be automated. Anyone looking for some sort of Brexit /post covid surge in jobs, is going to be VERY disappointed.
19
12/03/2021 10:30:51 3 22
bbc
This is a good decision, coal is not a sustainable energy source
51
12/03/2021 10:37:51 8 3
bbc
Did you actually read the article? "The Woodhouse Colliery would extract coking coal for the steel industry from the seabed off St Bees, with a processing plant on the former Marchon site at Kells."
177
12/03/2021 10:56:30 2 1
bbc
So what are you going to use instead of steel?
2
12/03/2021 10:27:55 17 8
bbc
So many u-turns around this mine, I'm getting dizzy!
20
12/03/2021 10:30:57 10 5
bbc
They should really just replace it with a roundabout
21
12/03/2021 10:31:05 6 8
bbc
Somebody should remind Johnson that when you’re in a hole “stop digging”.
22
jon
12/03/2021 10:31:19 31 16
bbc
Whether we use local or imported coking coal from the US, Russia and Australia, burning it still produces the same amount of CO2.
40
12/03/2021 10:35:30 50 4
bbc
But then there is the footprint for getting it here. Obviously if it is sourced locally, less travel footprint
43
12/03/2021 10:36:03 4 1
bbc
Not necessarily true, even if extraction nd transportation carbon is ignored, as the quality of the coal may vary.
62
12/03/2021 10:40:27 0 4
bbc
But, but, if there's going to be a tunnel to Northern Ireland, surely the coal mine tunnels can be used as a starter for 10 as they head out under the sea? Obverse, when the NI tunnel is excavated, any coal found could be used.
163
12/03/2021 10:54:21 8 1
bbc
How much CO2 do you think is produced by shipping coal from all over the world by oil burning ships.
590
12/03/2021 11:54:12 1 0
bbc
Importing coal & steel from China & elsewhere produces far more.
23
12/03/2021 10:31:33 678 137
bbc
Question is....

As we need coal to make steel, do we want to mine it locally & ‘cleanly’, or import ‘dirty-mined’ coal.

My vote is local ‘clean’ coal rather than dirty coal from thousands of miles away which has additional climate impact.
45
12/03/2021 10:36:29 399 90
bbc
And jobs for locals.
50
12/03/2021 10:37:51 19 78
bbc
No one buys our steel.
75
12/03/2021 10:41:55 81 62
bbc
Eco-nuts pushing us back to the stone age and abject poverty.
84
12/03/2021 10:43:02 74 45
bbc
Or not use coal at all.

The Steel industry is the biggest consumer of coal in this country at 0.8 tonnes of coal per tonne of steel made, producing 2.1 tonnes of CO2.

Bio-carbon, a way of obtaining the necessary carbon for steel from managed and sustainable forests, is actually CARBON NEGATIVE!

We need to scale these sustainable alternatives so they're more economical than coal.
86
12/03/2021 10:43:17 31 26
bbc
That's absolutely true on the face of it- but it's been reported the coal wouldn't be suitable for steel making anyway. That's for the enquiry to determine I guess.
If you think England is going to have a viable steel industry under the Evil Tories you are sorely mistaken. They don't subsidize industries like steel. The subsidize farmers who vote for them.

Asian steel will cost a fraction of English steel and the Evil Tories are always in a race to the bottom so they will let English steel disappear.
Removed
134
12/03/2021 10:50:18 8 36
bbc
can we not melt iron ore / make steel with Nuclear Energy ?
146
12/03/2021 10:52:36 28 7
bbc
but 85% of it would be for export so is it better to export it than import it?
156
12/03/2021 10:53:54 5 21
bbc
They will pass it after COT ..

They know how to play the Gallery ...

Is it not time Rolls Royce created small Nuclear for steel production ...

We used to invent everything ... including Steel..
199
VoR
12/03/2021 10:59:48 14 11
bbc
Except those aren't the only options, if we are prepared to invest in renewables, which would also create jobs. We could go down the electric arc furnace route.

Each time we opt for coal as a solution to coal, we postpone the move to the end state we need to reach as quickly as possible.
234
12/03/2021 11:05:58 25 6
bbc
Something like 80% of the coal is destined for export, not steel production in the UK. Anyway, we should be following the example of Scandinavian countries and pursuing low carbon steel technologies such as direct electrolysis and hydrogen flash smelting. Coal needs to be left in the ground. Pursuit of this project to my mind is driven by short-term political considerations.
266
12/03/2021 11:11:09 14 4
bbc
No we don't need coal. We could go down the green hydrogen route like Tata Steel are doing in Europe.
267
12/03/2021 11:11:22 8 7
bbc
Surely the Steel industry is unviable in the UK anyway?
277
12/03/2021 11:13:00 10 4
bbc
316
12/03/2021 11:19:31 5 13
bbc
You won’t get any rational answers from the green nut jobs, they are incapable of it.
396
Mr
12/03/2021 11:30:32 3 2
bbc
I agree. I think the mentality comes from protecting our own resources for an un certain future. Selfish as ever. Reopening viable pits would definately help the country rebuild the jobs market after covid.
24
12/03/2021 10:31:47 492 79
bbc
Poorly argued. The UK mine was not extensive and avoided importing smelting coal for steel which we will now need to buy from less green maybe less liberal sources and then add to our carbon footprint to get it here ... so a false economy and a false green agenda. Mistake by all concerned really.
47
12/03/2021 10:36:57 213 51
bbc
Totally agree
115
12/03/2021 10:46:50 13 20
bbc
There are alternatives to coal for making steel, such as bio-carbon, which is sourced from managed forests and is carbon negative!

It would be good to see this investment used to scale up greener alternatives for carbon used in steel
126
jon
12/03/2021 10:48:53 11 4
bbc
It’s a clever decision to delay approval beyond the UK hosted climate conference.
167
12/03/2021 10:55:24 7 7
bbc
You're quite right, but this is the problem when a Government's raison d'être is to remain popular.
217
12/03/2021 11:02:40 12 2
bbc
but 85% of it would be for export so is it better to export it than import it?
472
12/03/2021 11:41:32 10 4
bbc
The carbon footprint of exporting 85% would have been larger than the footprint of importing the 15%
742
12/03/2021 12:18:40 3 2
bbc
I wonder, how close do you live to this "uk mine not extensive"?
I suspect if it was within 10 miles of you, you would be singing a different tune right now
803
12/03/2021 12:28:49 4 4
bbc
Totally Agreed! "false green agenda" would some up many news articles on here!
987
12/03/2021 13:11:48 1 1
bbc
We import far more iron ore than we do coal for smelting anyway. If you want a green alternative, how about opening up the Cumbrian iron ore mines instead? Why extract and export over 500% more coal than needed for british steel?
989
12/03/2021 13:12:28 4 1
bbc
Nonsense, 85% of this coal was due for export. It's far more transport emissions efficient to import 15% equivalent of this mine's output than it is to export 85%.

The claim that this mine had environmental benefits is the exact opposite of reality; we weren't due to consume enough of it for that justification to be valid.
12/03/2021 13:28:34 0 1
bbc
Why can't steel be smelted from electricity, and not coke.
12/03/2021 13:48:51 2 0
bbc
90% of the production will be exported. if it were only producing enough for the UK industry you'd have a point, but it's not.
12/03/2021 17:08:04 2 0
bbc
If it's that crystal clear surely it'll come out during the public enquiry?
12/03/2021 17:45:17 1 0
bbc
There is nothing 'GREEN' about burning any fossil fuel!!
13/03/2021 15:09:21 0 0
bbc
YOU CANNOT USE THIS TYPE OF COAL FOR MAKING STEEL!
13/03/2021 15:57:08 0 0
bbc
Why?

First, British coal isn't particularly clean, which is why mining it was stopped in the first place. Second, there's nothing liberal about the British government or 52% of the population. Third, the British steel industry is collapsing and may not exist by the time the mine is constructed.

But lastly, and perhaps most importantly, you don't need coal to make steel. You need carbon.
25
12/03/2021 10:31:52 5 15
bbc
This government is brexit only so no surprise that it cannot plan anything else

The coal mine a backward step to grab votes
3
Bob
12/03/2021 10:28:04 18 16
bbc
All this means is coal will now be transports from a country that doesn't give a damn, causing more emissions than required.

A short-sighted view from green campaigners as usual.
26
12/03/2021 10:32:01 0 4
bbc
Yeah but maybe the steel industry will find ways of producing steel wise lower carbon footprint as a result of this. Necessity being the mother of invention and all that.
27
12/03/2021 10:32:05 5 13
bbc
Good, with 85% of the coal being exported to EU for profit the defence of being Eco friendly way of obtaining coke fuel was flawed.
41
12/03/2021 10:35:47 4 2
bbc
Where is the evidence we export 85% to Europe/EU?
28
12/03/2021 10:32:13 21 18
bbc
"Boris Johnson risked humiliation over the mine."

Environmental, business, and local concerns are irrelevant in the decision. As with many things, it will all be about promoting the image of "Boris".
He risks humiliation just by looking at him.

He is such a mess. He is in honesty an embarrassment of a man. He can't comb his hair, he can't get a shirt that fits him, and he's the leader of this country? Stands to reason why the UK is in such a mess, have you seen the state of our PM?
Removed
29
12/03/2021 10:32:17 9 14
bbc
Another U turn from U bend Johnson.
2
12/03/2021 10:27:55 17 8
bbc
So many u-turns around this mine, I'm getting dizzy!
30
12/03/2021 10:32:18 0 2
bbc
It's not a mine anymore its a merry-go-round!
11
12/03/2021 10:30:15 7 3
bbc
What will we put on our barbecues this summer now?
31
12/03/2021 10:33:00 15 23
bbc
tories
58
12/03/2021 10:39:18 6 5
bbc
Nah they let off toxic fumes.
12/03/2021 20:34:11 0 0
bbc
They spit a bit when they get hot!
32
12/03/2021 10:33:36 435 57
bbc
Transporting coal from Russia and Australia doesn't make any sense when it can come from Cumbria. We need coke to make steel. If we don't make our own steel, then we have to import it, from EU or China, which creates emissions and a dependency. There are more aspects to this than BBC is covering.
69
12/03/2021 10:41:25 229 32
bbc
I agree with your point. It would have been more balanced if the BBC had presented both sides of the argument. The central theme is carbon emissions, assuming we want/need to keep our steel plant open then the carbon equation can be computed. This would clarify which option makes most sense from a minimal emissions point of view. Dig local, or dig remote and transport.
147
12/03/2021 10:52:39 24 1
bbc
Chinese steel is rubbish. Even the Chinese won't use it for key projects. Metals from China, Russia and India are banned for Defence projects.
492
12/03/2021 11:44:03 5 7
bbc
The 85% being exported would have had a larger carbon footprint than the 15% we import.
600
12/03/2021 11:57:41 7 10
bbc
Steel can already be made without metallurgical coal. It's time we embraced this and retooled.
846
12/03/2021 12:39:19 0 2
bbc
However, to make the pit viable, it needs to export 85% of its output. Where is the market? No market, no pit.
847
12/03/2021 12:39:33 2 3
bbc
more but, but but BBC blither
870
12/03/2021 12:44:27 1 1
bbc
Agree with you but it gives the bbc the opportunity to headline a so called govt u turn.
887
12/03/2021 12:47:25 3 1
bbc
The government make a u turn and you blame the bbc?
931
Gee
12/03/2021 12:59:15 4 2
bbc
Again the BBC has not provided the context, its been up other people to provide the context. We need steel to make all sorts of things including housing, the ideal situation is to have as much of the process in the UK as it will avoid the CO2 emissions generated by shipping (and the other pollutants from shipping) goods 1000's of miles & we can control the environmental standards it produced to
12/03/2021 13:49:48 0 0
bbc
so why does the mine plan to export 90% of its production? Why not develop a mine that only produces 10% of the planned capacity and only for the UK market?
12/03/2021 17:46:26 1 1
bbc
There is nothing 'GREEN' about burning fossil fuel!!
13/03/2021 12:35:26 0 0
bbc
Thatcher destroyed coal mining and much of the steel industry along with many other things, but this is what TORIES DO !
13/03/2021 15:09:36 0 0
bbc
YOU CANNOT USE THIS TYPE OF COAL FOR MAKING STEEL!
33
12/03/2021 10:33:56 5 4
bbc
Always a big worry when a team leading up a development state that is will create x amount of jobs but are unable to set out how those jobs would come about.
4
12/03/2021 10:28:29 28 28
bbc
A good U turn from a bad government.
34
12/03/2021 10:34:13 17 10
bbc
And the latest of far too many, a clueless government led reactively by public opinion, at great cost to us all.
35
12/03/2021 10:34:33 20 5
bbc
"Cumbria Cumbria County councillors gave it the go-ahead last March..."

Any chance the BBC proof read any of their articles? The amount of mistakes is a joke.
793
12/03/2021 12:27:48 5 5
bbc
It is "number of mistakes," not "amount." You should employ a proof-reader.
36
12/03/2021 10:35:13 4 7
bbc
Well well. It's really not like this government to u-turn is it?
97
12/03/2021 10:44:27 2 0
bbc
Well, they're not allowed to reconsider any subject, revaluate and come to a different decision... No, it's a 'U-turn' and everyone gets up in arms.

What happened to debate and reasoned argument with the ability to amend ones decision?
37
Ian
12/03/2021 10:35:17 3 3
bbc
?? The UK imports coal ??
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????
So there are many questions to be asked
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????
???????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????
38
12/03/2021 10:35:24 2 9
bbc
thank god for that. the earth has been saved from imminent disaster ??
173
12/03/2021 10:41:30 0 0
bbc
Like you'd give a --
39
12/03/2021 10:35:25 4 16
bbc
How ridiculous to even contemplate a new coal mine while the world is in such a precarious position
90
12/03/2021 10:43:40 0 1
bbc
The coal will still be used irrespective of whether the mine is opened, so won’t make any difference, just means coal will be imported
22
jon
12/03/2021 10:31:19 31 16
bbc
Whether we use local or imported coking coal from the US, Russia and Australia, burning it still produces the same amount of CO2.
40
12/03/2021 10:35:30 50 4
bbc
But then there is the footprint for getting it here. Obviously if it is sourced locally, less travel footprint
27
12/03/2021 10:32:05 5 13
bbc
Good, with 85% of the coal being exported to EU for profit the defence of being Eco friendly way of obtaining coke fuel was flawed.
41
12/03/2021 10:35:47 4 2
bbc
Where is the evidence we export 85% to Europe/EU?
89
12/03/2021 10:43:35 0 2
bbc
The EU tariffs on coal/coke import to EU are high, making such export non-competitive.
143
12/03/2021 10:52:15 0 0
bbc
Seems like don’t export anything to EU anymore!
10
12/03/2021 10:30:12 8 8
bbc
The Tories and U-Turns: Name a more iconic duo
42
12/03/2021 10:35:54 7 6
bbc
Labour and anti-Semitism?
119
12/03/2021 10:48:10 4 2
bbc
How's that investigation into Islamophobia in the Tory party going...........
22
jon
12/03/2021 10:31:19 31 16
bbc
Whether we use local or imported coking coal from the US, Russia and Australia, burning it still produces the same amount of CO2.
43
12/03/2021 10:36:03 4 1
bbc
Not necessarily true, even if extraction nd transportation carbon is ignored, as the quality of the coal may vary.
44
12/03/2021 10:36:08 131 19
bbc
It sounds to me as though there are some activities where coal is still essential at present and other fuels cannot be used as a substitute.

Surely it's better that we mine our own rather than import coal if we can economically?
67
12/03/2021 10:41:07 52 98
bbc
85% of this mines production was licensed to be exported to Europe. So importing small amount required would be better all round. Until steel technology evolves.
And perhaps some Tory cronyism involved as well....
83
12/03/2021 10:42:57 7 13
bbc
Not essential. Renewable substitutes exist and are becoming cheaper by the day.
12/03/2021 13:46:50 1 3
bbc
We should not be continuing to mine/use fossil fuels which are contributing to climate contamination - or are you suggesting that this does not exist?

Doesn't the future matter to you?
13/03/2021 16:23:37 0 0
bbc
British coal is very dirty and you need to spend a small furtune to clean it. There's no actual requirement anywhere in steel making that insists on coal. Carbon, certainly. But atoms are somewhat oblivious as to the source of other atoms.
But you can't waste millions of gallons of diesel and tonnes of Co2 shipping coal in from USA, China, Australia etc. etc. if you mine it in UK.

Why pollute our backyard a little bit to get local supplies, and even supply the beloved nearby eu, when you could pollute someone else's and also pollute the shipping routes for thousands of miles across the world.
23
12/03/2021 10:31:33 678 137
bbc
Question is....

As we need coal to make steel, do we want to mine it locally & ‘cleanly’, or import ‘dirty-mined’ coal.

My vote is local ‘clean’ coal rather than dirty coal from thousands of miles away which has additional climate impact.
45
12/03/2021 10:36:29 399 90
bbc
And jobs for locals.
174
12/03/2021 10:42:14 3 3
bbc
and their lungs.
46
12/03/2021 10:36:39 83 25
bbc
Pity. Stops us importing (at CO2 cost) and our contribution to coal-based emissions is a spot on a gnat's willy, in global terms. The greens can't see the wood from the trees. Ignore them.
Removed
935
12/03/2021 13:00:22 2 4
bbc
Just as we, the sensible folk, ignore your opinions
24
12/03/2021 10:31:47 492 79
bbc
Poorly argued. The UK mine was not extensive and avoided importing smelting coal for steel which we will now need to buy from less green maybe less liberal sources and then add to our carbon footprint to get it here ... so a false economy and a false green agenda. Mistake by all concerned really.
47
12/03/2021 10:36:57 213 51
bbc
Totally agree
"Boris Johnson risked humiliation over the mine."

Environmental, business, and local concerns are irrelevant in the decision. As with many things, it will all be about promoting the image of "Boris".
48
bbc
He risks humiliation just by looking at him.

He is such a mess. He is in honesty an embarrassment of a man. He can't comb his hair, he can't get a shirt that fits him, and he's the leader of this country? Stands to reason why the UK is in such a mess, have you seen the state of our PM?
Removed
61
12/03/2021 10:40:02 7 9
bbc
Don't be so shallow, don't make this about appearance. The man is a proven liar, incompetent to the core. *That* is the problem.
100
stu
12/03/2021 10:44:43 9 6
bbc
I for one am glad we have a walking talking example of how appearances are completely irrelevant. too many people spend far too much time and effort trying to persuade us that it matters
3
Bob
12/03/2021 10:28:04 18 16
bbc
All this means is coal will now be transports from a country that doesn't give a damn, causing more emissions than required.

A short-sighted view from green campaigners as usual.
49
12/03/2021 10:37:39 0 3
bbc
And the 85% being transported and sold to Europe as in the license agreement, how is that causing less emission than importing from abroad the 15% the mine would have produced for UK industry ?
253
12/03/2021 11:09:30 1 0
bbc
Last time I looked at a map, Europe is far closer to us than China, Australia or the USA.
275
12/03/2021 11:12:38 1 0
bbc
If the coal comes from Aus or the coal is of lower quality then yes the emissions will be greater. Evidently there is not that many alarmists who can do any math.
23
12/03/2021 10:31:33 678 137
bbc
Question is....

As we need coal to make steel, do we want to mine it locally & ‘cleanly’, or import ‘dirty-mined’ coal.

My vote is local ‘clean’ coal rather than dirty coal from thousands of miles away which has additional climate impact.
50
12/03/2021 10:37:51 19 78
bbc
No one buys our steel.
208
12/03/2021 11:01:11 26 10
bbc
So you'd prefer the UK to import steel from halfway round the world as well then ?

Presumably that's greener than using home produced steel ?
356
12/03/2021 11:24:25 2 1
bbc
Evidence please
429
12/03/2021 11:35:26 1 1
bbc
We need for our products such rail tracks.
19
12/03/2021 10:30:51 3 22
bbc
This is a good decision, coal is not a sustainable energy source
51
12/03/2021 10:37:51 8 3
bbc
Did you actually read the article? "The Woodhouse Colliery would extract coking coal for the steel industry from the seabed off St Bees, with a processing plant on the former Marchon site at Kells."
52
12/03/2021 10:38:03 3 11
bbc
Coal is coal no matter what’s it’s used for. Johnson needs to ditch the proposal or risk worldwide ridicule at COP26.
92
12/03/2021 10:43:47 0 1
bbc
So what do you replace Steel with?
12
12/03/2021 10:30:17 10 15
bbc
Green campaigners = scientists and experts.
Bob = opinion based on reading random websites.

Who to believe?
53
12/03/2021 10:38:10 7 3
bbc
Real scientists aren’t green, they are non-political, and would also tell you the impact of travelling coal into the U.K. to make much needed steel is more than the mine itself.

As for Bob, many Bobs out there have access to University websites & papers, and the Greens are on the web themselves....... don’t dis Bob, he/she is looking for a considered argument not blinkered green.
54
12/03/2021 10:38:29 1 8
bbc
At least it might increase our dwindling exports to Europe. All we need now is Trump at the helm.
55
12/03/2021 10:38:35 137 15
bbc
So we will be shipping coal from all over the world and possibly second rate steel produced in not very eco friendly plants in China. Yes we need to be more green but even wind turbines need to be made of steel. Better a modern cleaner coking plant here next door to a mine.
68
12/03/2021 10:41:24 23 72
bbc
Not when it's only going to use a small fraction of the output.........
273
12/03/2021 11:12:29 1 4
bbc
We should not be needing Coal
766
12/03/2021 12:23:19 4 0
bbc
Steel is in every part of manufacture, fabricate, transport install and commission.
The ignorant need to really understand project delivery, process and constraints to have a valid arguement.
12/03/2021 13:41:38 0 2
bbc
What parts of a wind turbine require steel?
12/03/2021 13:54:37 1 1
bbc
so why is 90% of the coal from this mine going to export?
12/03/2021 16:06:37 1 0
bbc
Totally agree, but didn't the Tory government block a move the EU to introduce higher tariffs on Chinese Steel?
13/03/2021 16:22:06 0 0
bbc
There are plenty of cleaner sources of coal. British coal is incredibly dirty. Wind turbines need to be made of a light but strong metal, I can't off the top of my head think of any specific part of the mechanism that stipulates steel. And, no, you don't need coal to make steel. You need high temperatures and carbon. The steel really doesn't care what the source of either is.
56
12/03/2021 10:39:04 0 1
bbc
It is far better for the UK to offshore its carbon footprint.
63
12/03/2021 10:40:53 0 3
bbc
I think what you mean to say is it makes no sense to open a new coal mine with massive extra capacity than required when there's plenty of surplus capacity already built......

Totally agree
16
12/03/2021 10:30:33 263 42
bbc
absolute joke, in other news GE will will be producing Wind turbines in teeside for a large scale project. How will this steel be made without coking coal for these turbines. We would rather import it in to make use feel better!
57
12/03/2021 10:39:05 77 96
bbc
Cheep China imports are what the Tory party were happy to have while the UK was part of the EU. The UK steel production plants are reported to be on the way out. That's free markets for you. No protection against countries that go low in numerous ways, no UK jobs.
543
12/03/2021 11:51:05 10 1
bbc
The difficulties experienced by our heavy industries are not due to one political party or one government. They have been evident for a number of years, and similar problems occur in other countries, as in the 'rust belt' towns of the USA. Anti-Tory complaints do not help the discussion.

Personally, I would vote to approve the mine, but it is a tough and finely balanced decision.
562
12/03/2021 11:52:47 11 6
bbc
No, it's the so called greens pressuring the government with their verbal incontinence.
994
12/03/2021 13:13:27 6 2
bbc
Absolute rubbish and you know it. This mine is to stop us having to import either dirty Chinese or German coal, especially that rubbish lignite from the new German mine that nobody wants.
999
12/03/2021 13:14:12 1 2
bbc
Exactly have they not noticed. British Steel is history.
12/03/2021 13:27:46 3 5
bbc
That's the Tories for you
Ron
13/03/2021 01:54:20 1 1
bbc
Given the latest and yet another pandemic from China, surely we should work towards avoiding getting anything from such a polluted place?
13/03/2021 12:40:15 0 1
bbc
I note that the vote so far indicates a large TORY presence on this forum !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
31
12/03/2021 10:33:00 15 23
bbc
tories
58
12/03/2021 10:39:18 6 5
bbc
Nah they let off toxic fumes.
59
12/03/2021 10:39:37 6 8
bbc
I hope Boris runs his bath better than the country
71
12/03/2021 10:41:32 3 4
bbc
I hope you find a better script writer.
60
12/03/2021 10:39:52 12 2
bbc
I get he carbon emissions scenario, but surely this will provide jobs and is exportable so a positive for the country etc and as pointed out in the article money and emissions would be saved by those using it as they would have to ship it from much further afield so the mine would have an advantage there.

The bigger question for those opposing it, should be why is it still used?
76
12/03/2021 10:41:58 10 4
bbc
For UK steel production.
124
12/03/2021 10:48:38 2 1
bbc
There is no working alternative.
12/03/2021 18:36:51 0 0
bbc
That is the whole point. The Govt's independent advisers on climate change, and they are expert at what they do, have determined that steel has to move away from coking coal by 2035. The alternative processes need to be on stream by then. But the license for this mine/viability is until 2049, so it will hold up the substitution process. And 85% of the coal will be exported anyway.
He risks humiliation just by looking at him.

He is such a mess. He is in honesty an embarrassment of a man. He can't comb his hair, he can't get a shirt that fits him, and he's the leader of this country? Stands to reason why the UK is in such a mess, have you seen the state of our PM?
Removed
61
12/03/2021 10:40:02 7 9
bbc
Don't be so shallow, don't make this about appearance. The man is a proven liar, incompetent to the core. *That* is the problem.
22
jon
12/03/2021 10:31:19 31 16
bbc
Whether we use local or imported coking coal from the US, Russia and Australia, burning it still produces the same amount of CO2.
62
12/03/2021 10:40:27 0 4
bbc
But, but, if there's going to be a tunnel to Northern Ireland, surely the coal mine tunnels can be used as a starter for 10 as they head out under the sea? Obverse, when the NI tunnel is excavated, any coal found could be used.
56
12/03/2021 10:39:04 0 1
bbc
It is far better for the UK to offshore its carbon footprint.
63
12/03/2021 10:40:53 0 3
bbc
I think what you mean to say is it makes no sense to open a new coal mine with massive extra capacity than required when there's plenty of surplus capacity already built......

Totally agree
135
12/03/2021 10:50:19 0 0
bbc
If that makes you feel better then it is of course what I mean.....
64
12/03/2021 10:40:54 182 25
bbc
Hmmm....so where will we get the coke to make the steel to make the wind turbine towers to generate the carbon "free" electricity? Ah, yes, of course: import it at greater costs and larger carbon footprint. Brilliant.
158
12/03/2021 10:53:59 130 30
bbc
Will Emma Thompson be once more be flying thousands of miles pumping tonnes of CO2 into the atmosphere to protest against this ?
220
12/03/2021 11:03:22 4 6
bbc
Or we could use a different material to make the turbines, like Aluminium which can use carbon "free" electricity instead of coal in it's manufacture.
254
12/03/2021 11:09:32 10 8
bbc
With the woke, it really is a case of "out of sight, out of mind".

It doesn't matter that the coal would now need to be provided by some far less environmentally compliant mine in some far-flung place in the world (thereby irrefutably cause vastly worse environmental impact). Or the fact you have to transport the heavy, dirty stuff thousands of miles.

To them, we're not doing it, so that's fine.
498
12/03/2021 11:45:55 6 6
bbc
The export of the 85% would have had a larger carbon footprint than the 15% we import.
574
12/03/2021 11:55:01 5 8
bbc
I wonder if you’ve been following this proposal or even read the article thoroughly as 85% OF MINES PRODUCTION is not headed for British steel but for EXPORT.

Ed Miliband “A new mine is neither the answer for climate change nor the answer for our steel industry. Indeed, 85% of the mine’s production is due for export.”??
998
12/03/2021 13:14:05 0 0
bbc
You want to talk about carbon footprints, maybe we should focus on how much iron ore we're importing. We could be mining that in west cumbria. Except it isn't as profitable when it comes to exporting 85% of what's mined...
12/03/2021 13:40:05 0 2
bbc
What steel is needed to make wind turbines?
12/03/2021 17:09:38 1 0
bbc
Exactly. Thatchers government argued it was cheaper to import coal from Oz. Even though they had to transport it 1000 miles to the coast. Load it on to a ship and sail it half way around the world. Then unload it and drive it half way across the UK.
13/03/2021 16:19:40 0 0
bbc
(a) No reason it should be a larger carbon footprint. Ships have a lower clost to run than trucks and a lot of foreign coal is much cleaner. (b) You don't need coke to make steel, you just need the right temperature and a source of carbon. Any source will do. Carbon is carbon (tautologically speaking).
11
12/03/2021 10:30:15 7 3
bbc
What will we put on our barbecues this summer now?
65
12/03/2021 10:40:56 4 2
bbc
Use dried dung however it might make the food taste funny, but hey it's natural so must good, right ?
66
12/03/2021 10:41:05 54 4
bbc
I am pretty confident that very soon after the climate conference the new mine will get the go-ahead.
93
12/03/2021 10:44:02 51 15
bbc
Agree. Hoping the stalling tactic works. As for Ed Milliband, his statement was totally clueless.
597
12/03/2021 11:57:23 3 0
bbc
And the whole world will see, again, that this government's word (or signature) means absolutely nothing.
629
12/03/2021 12:02:00 0 0
bbc
Yes, this is what I would be betting on. Has anyone opened a book on this?
44
12/03/2021 10:36:08 131 19
bbc
It sounds to me as though there are some activities where coal is still essential at present and other fuels cannot be used as a substitute.

Surely it's better that we mine our own rather than import coal if we can economically?
67
12/03/2021 10:41:07 52 98
bbc
85% of this mines production was licensed to be exported to Europe. So importing small amount required would be better all round. Until steel technology evolves.
And perhaps some Tory cronyism involved as well....
111
12/03/2021 10:46:29 12 0
bbc
Maybe also better that we export to Europe than the Europeans import from places further afield where the coal production does more damage to the world.
226
12/03/2021 11:04:31 4 11
bbc
Exactly. If we have to import for a short time until the new technologies are available at scale, that is better than creating what would soon become a white elephant.
566
12/03/2021 11:53:43 3 0
bbc
If the local Conservative MPs are arguing for the mine, would you say this is cronyism? Or are they representing their constituents?
880
12/03/2021 12:46:24 2 3
bbc
Tory cronyism without doubt and double standards answers on here today in view of Thatcher era.
13/03/2021 10:18:50 0 0
bbc
"until steel technology evolves" - learn about science and technology and then revisit your statement - basic chemisrty and physics might help you work this one out.

As an Engineer of 40+ years experiance I get feed up with people who do not even understand the basic principles of manufacturing, especially when they say - "lets just rapid prototype it" - try that with steel making!!!!!!!!!!
13/03/2021 10:22:24 0 0
bbc
Given that Germany is lignite central, our exporting quality coking coal to Europe is probably a very good thing.
13/03/2021 17:25:07 0 0
bbc
True - the place will be a white elephant and require public funds support for years.
Where are all these "local" workers coming from.
Mirek and Stefan are long gone...
55
12/03/2021 10:38:35 137 15
bbc
So we will be shipping coal from all over the world and possibly second rate steel produced in not very eco friendly plants in China. Yes we need to be more green but even wind turbines need to be made of steel. Better a modern cleaner coking plant here next door to a mine.
68
12/03/2021 10:41:24 23 72
bbc
Not when it's only going to use a small fraction of the output.........
270
12/03/2021 11:11:34 8 1
bbc
So you're perfectly happy to boost the economies of other countries but not our own?

Or don't you think that we need to boost our own manufacturing industry now?
527
12/03/2021 11:45:28 3 1
bbc
With the rest going to Europe, saving it from being transported all the way from the Americas.
32
12/03/2021 10:33:36 435 57
bbc
Transporting coal from Russia and Australia doesn't make any sense when it can come from Cumbria. We need coke to make steel. If we don't make our own steel, then we have to import it, from EU or China, which creates emissions and a dependency. There are more aspects to this than BBC is covering.
69
12/03/2021 10:41:25 229 32
bbc
I agree with your point. It would have been more balanced if the BBC had presented both sides of the argument. The central theme is carbon emissions, assuming we want/need to keep our steel plant open then the carbon equation can be computed. This would clarify which option makes most sense from a minimal emissions point of view. Dig local, or dig remote and transport.
155
12/03/2021 10:53:41 24 1
bbc
Also UK jobs in the North created
264
12/03/2021 11:11:06 28 4
bbc
I think that the calculation has been done & that was part of the planning process. The problem is that these green groups' have 'got up a head of steam' (perhaps wind in sails would be better) & will challenge everything & anything. I would support them if they could stop excessive emissions from BBC news readers, otherwise they can go spin
309
12/03/2021 11:18:21 17 1
bbc
balance from Harrabin - you must be joking . it's diabolical.
662
12/03/2021 12:03:25 6 6
bbc
The BBC have been peddling this story for weeks and here is yet another attempt
849
12/03/2021 12:40:24 2 0
bbc
A carbon emission system, flue gas desulphurisation, was introduced at Drax in the 80s, to reduce pollutants but was not adopted by the then tory Govt who intended to decimate the coal industry and privatise the electricity supply industry.
986
12/03/2021 13:11:41 2 3
bbc
Don’t expect any balance from BBC reporting.
12/03/2021 13:25:35 1 0
bbc
It's the government that had insisted on the inquiry, not the BBC. Blame the Tories.
13/03/2021 09:24:55 0 0
bbc
Keep up with the news.......the bankers etc that were financing the Indian owners of the steel works have gone bust. The company that makes the. steel say they things do not look good for the industry in the UK
13/03/2021 14:48:45 0 1
bbc
The Beeb being balanced! You must be dreaming.
13/03/2021 16:03:18 1 0
bbc
Bear in mind one factor behind the closure of British mines was the high sulphur content, requiring expensive processing to be usable. The steel industry preferred to import as it was higher quality, making it cheaper to use, but also producing a better end product.
70
12/03/2021 10:41:32 45 9
bbc
We may as well shut down UK PLC. Steel smelting requires significant heat, so we either source coal locally and attempt to control environmental impact, source from elsewhere with no control or shutdown. Bad decision,
747
Jim
12/03/2021 12:19:53 14 3
bbc
I wonder when Lancaster University say the mine would produce 8.4m tonnes of CO2 per year. Do they actually mean the steel smelting that seems to be happening anyway
or the mine itself?
936
12/03/2021 13:00:39 2 0
bbc
To PoolyScot Correct in every detail . Look at the opposers , all in safe jobs paid for by tax payers , oh and Mr Miliband included . We have a Tory Govt yet enact wet focus groups ideas . No one to vote for now , Johnson is absolutely pathetic ,who will rid us of these idiots
59
12/03/2021 10:39:37 6 8
bbc
I hope Boris runs his bath better than the country
71
12/03/2021 10:41:32 3 4
bbc
I hope you find a better script writer.
72
12/03/2021 10:41:42 1 5
bbc
It's just a delaying tactic. As soon as COP is over HMG will be making sure this goes through to protect their supporters' offshored investments.

Expect only lies from our PM and his despicable band of lying cronies.
73
12/03/2021 10:41:46 90 11
bbc
The thing is we still need steel for building an manufacturing, and to make steel you need coal to act as a source of Carbon.

So is it ok to import coal for Steel making from other countries but not use our own resources.
91
12/03/2021 10:43:42 38 65
bbc
"to make steel you need coal to act as a source of Carbon"

Not the case, the coal is used to reduce the iron ore - green hydrogen can be used instead.
678
12/03/2021 12:09:56 4 3
bbc
I wonder if you’ve been following this proposal or even read the article thoroughly as 85% OF MINES PRODUCTION is not headed for British steel but for EXPORT.

Ed Miliband “A new mine is neither the answer for climate change nor the answer for our steel industry. Indeed, 85% of the mine’s production is due for export.”

So are we really trying to reduce CO2 or not??
74
12/03/2021 10:41:52 210 31
bbc
We can extract and use good quality UK coal (and make some money from exports) whilst monitoring the entire process to our own strict environmental standards.

Or... we can import poorer quality 'dirty' coal mined in places with few or no environmental controls (nor labour safety standards), by shipping it half way round the world.

The atmosphere doesn't have borders; globally this is a net gain.
197
12/03/2021 10:59:37 78 15
bbc
This is what public inquries on proposed developments are for. To assess advantages and disadvantages, and balance competing interests locally, nationally and globally. Or we could just let internet commenters decide.
657
12/03/2021 12:06:31 7 4
bbc
Where have you got the idea that we import poor quality dirty coal and I wonder if you’ve been following this proposal or even read the article thoroughly as embedded in it is this 85% OF MINES PRODUCTION is not headed for British steel but for EXPORT. This mine is small fry compared to coal industry we import from do you really think we can compete at our labour costs ??
858
12/03/2021 12:42:15 5 3
bbc
Where is the export market? How much will this add to greenhouse emissions?
12/03/2021 13:14:43 7 3
bbc
But we were only going to use 15% of this coal, we were going to export the other 85%, so we were going to be the ones generating emissions from export transport of vast amounts of coal we've mined but didn't actually need.

Leave it in the ground, we can get the tiny 15% we need cheaper and more cleanly from elsewhere than building a whole new mine.
12/03/2021 13:39:01 2 0
bbc
Utter rubbish - provide FACTS to prove your claims!
Ron
13/03/2021 02:02:28 1 0
bbc
I like this view; it has made me think. It seems clear that coal is bad, so if it is going to take a little bit longer to get rid of it (like petrol), maybe we should make the process as clean as possible, by doing it here? If we still need coal for the next few years, we need to extract it here, not be at the beck and call of a foreign power who may, or may not, sell it to us.
13/03/2021 16:14:48 0 0
bbc
Except most of the coal imported is cleaner tha anything in Britain, and British coal is most definitely not good quality. High sulphur content, for a start, and a high radioisotope content. Pollutants are why former industrial areas have such degradation.
23
12/03/2021 10:31:33 678 137
bbc
Question is....

As we need coal to make steel, do we want to mine it locally & ‘cleanly’, or import ‘dirty-mined’ coal.

My vote is local ‘clean’ coal rather than dirty coal from thousands of miles away which has additional climate impact.
75
12/03/2021 10:41:55 81 62
bbc
Eco-nuts pushing us back to the stone age and abject poverty.
218
12/03/2021 11:03:04 13 7
bbc
Instead we are planning to construct our way back to the stone age, your comment is utter tosh.
307
12/03/2021 11:18:17 10 3
bbc
Sums up HYS that this comment has more up votes than down. Are we all just ignoring climate change because it's too bad to comprehend?
60
12/03/2021 10:39:52 12 2
bbc
I get he carbon emissions scenario, but surely this will provide jobs and is exportable so a positive for the country etc and as pointed out in the article money and emissions would be saved by those using it as they would have to ship it from much further afield so the mine would have an advantage there.

The bigger question for those opposing it, should be why is it still used?
76
12/03/2021 10:41:58 10 4
bbc
For UK steel production.
77
12/03/2021 10:42:02 1 4
bbc
Screeching u turn number 45........was always a ridiculous and contradictory decision.
78
12/03/2021 10:42:02 97 31
bbc
Silly decision, it’s one mine and we need the coal, so if it doesn’t come from this mine it will need to be imported. Coming from an old mining area where even in the 90s we had 30 mines operating it seems silly that one mine causes climate change, whereas when we had 100s operating in the 19th and 20th century it wasn’t an issue
284
12/03/2021 11:14:19 53 29
bbc
One mine doesn't cause climate change, of course.

The trouble is, people are brainwashed into think CC is caused entirely and only by "carbon emissions"£ because that's what the media tell them, and of course "97% of scientists agree". Bit like the 98% of women who agree that product X makes their skin look better - it's 98% of a carefully selected small number - like the scientists.
prw
12/03/2021 13:40:04 4 2
bbc
That is the most stupid response ever. You know absolutely nothing about climate change to indicate that we had 100s mines operating a century ago and it wasn't an issue. The mind boggles about the IQ of some people on this site.
12/03/2021 13:50:48 2 3
bbc
We do not need the coal - it is a fossil fuel contributing to the climate problems of the world!

If you disagree, PROVIDE SCIENTIFIC PROOF that fossil fuels are not a major factor in climate change!!
12/03/2021 14:10:56 2 3
bbc
It wasn't an issue because they were not aware of the effects in the era of industrial revolution and beyond.
Now we are, and must do everything possible to slow it down if you want your grandchildren and onwards to have a world they can live in and enjoy.
12/03/2021 22:47:10 2 2
bbc
Sadly it very much was an issue, but people were ignorant of it. Even sadder, some people are still ignorant despite all the evidence.

Burning coal in the 19th and 20th centuries is why we're in the predicament we're in.
Burning more is why we're making the problem even worse.
13/03/2021 12:50:01 0 0
bbc
In this modern era humans burn, coal,oil,gas,wood and pollute the planet with plastic and everything else we are destroying the sea's and forests and ourselves
13/03/2021 22:35:38 0 0
bbc
Political. The Johnson kitchen cabinet of 2 rolling over to have their belly rubbed by Joe Biden. Just to show that they can, and will, when required.
79
12/03/2021 10:42:10 7 5
bbc
Taking back control Boris by kissing US ass again.
108
12/03/2021 10:45:47 2 0
bbc
Don't we always? We're not an independent country, we're the US 51st state.

The US snaps it's fingers and we come running
380
12/03/2021 11:27:43 0 0
bbc
BY no longer importing coal from the USA? Oh, I see!
This mine will come, one way or another. We cannot import all our needs forever and must become self-sufficient, with enough left over to flog overseas. Export or die, just post-WWII. Now it's all "Where can we buy it chapr and ship it thousands of miles from?" The latter is unsustainable.
80
12/03/2021 10:42:32 172 14
bbc
Tories trying to open new coal mines and the left protesting ?

What the hell is going on ?
113
12/03/2021 10:46:33 107 6
bbc
Bet Scargil's head is about to explode
235
12/03/2021 11:06:05 21 7
bbc
The lefty luvvies haven't represented the working class for decades. In fact they hate them. They prefer a welfare class they can buy votes from with other working peoples money. The men who fought with Scargil wanted jobs and their self respect not welfare payments. Lets give a few hundred men the pride and self respect that was taken from a hundred thousand.
387
12/03/2021 11:28:36 9 0
bbc
Kier Starmer even had a dig at the government for allowing a coal mine to opened in the UK.
579
12/03/2021 11:55:31 1 0
bbc
Well put! We are living in topsy-turvey times. Brexit and Covid have upended some old political alignments.
874
12/03/2021 12:45:12 2 0
bbc
And why are the right accepting it. Have they forgotten the Thatcher era
884
12/03/2021 12:46:56 0 2
bbc
Yawn.
911
12/03/2021 12:53:41 0 1
bbc
Tories deciding against opening new mines I think you’ll find.
997
12/03/2021 13:14:00 0 0
bbc
Stunning!
12/03/2021 13:42:20 1 1
bbc
Cronyism, that's what :-

"The local Copeland MP Trudy Harrison is the prime minister's Parliamentary aide - and it's hard to conceive that she did not drop a word in his ear, although she wouldn't talk to me about that."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-55766306
12/03/2021 18:50:53 0 0
bbc
Try reading what is going on instead of just demonstrating your naivety .
13/03/2021 12:42:26 0 0
bbc
The mine will be TORY owned, they very much look after themselves , not only the so called left oppose this, or does that not matter ??????????????????????????
81
12/03/2021 10:42:42 4 5
bbc
Going to see a lot more these types of arguments in the coming years. Yes, there is an environmental emergency going on, but some industries are just not where they need to be yet.

The theory of using local sourced coal is sound in the short term if it meant less coal being dugout elsewhere. But it will not, just mean more coal on the market at and less incentive to industries to move on
11
12/03/2021 10:30:15 7 3
bbc
What will we put on our barbecues this summer now?
82
12/03/2021 10:42:43 1 1
bbc
Hopefully food you want to cook and eat.

Best to use non smoke fuels or gas to cook it with dependent on your barbie (no not the doll).
44
12/03/2021 10:36:08 131 19
bbc
It sounds to me as though there are some activities where coal is still essential at present and other fuels cannot be used as a substitute.

Surely it's better that we mine our own rather than import coal if we can economically?
83
12/03/2021 10:42:57 7 13
bbc
Not essential. Renewable substitutes exist and are becoming cheaper by the day.
552
12/03/2021 11:47:07 2 3
bbc
Not on a commercial scale they don't & they're a long way off being commercially relevant or cost effective.
906
12/03/2021 12:52:18 4 3
bbc
Learn some basic chemistry first. Then some VERY basic metallurgy... Only then you can try for the Nobel prize for "steel production by substitute method"...
12/03/2021 15:29:39 1 1
bbc
Not cheap enough nor in sufficient quantities.
13/03/2021 11:54:19 0 0
bbc
Only after 2035 thats **if** the pilot project works, & is on time.
23
12/03/2021 10:31:33 678 137
bbc
Question is....

As we need coal to make steel, do we want to mine it locally & ‘cleanly’, or import ‘dirty-mined’ coal.

My vote is local ‘clean’ coal rather than dirty coal from thousands of miles away which has additional climate impact.
84
12/03/2021 10:43:02 74 45
bbc
Or not use coal at all.

The Steel industry is the biggest consumer of coal in this country at 0.8 tonnes of coal per tonne of steel made, producing 2.1 tonnes of CO2.

Bio-carbon, a way of obtaining the necessary carbon for steel from managed and sustainable forests, is actually CARBON NEGATIVE!

We need to scale these sustainable alternatives so they're more economical than coal.
293
12/03/2021 11:15:43 10 0
bbc
What is bio-carbon? Is that a fancy word for charcoal? If so I've used charcoal in my forge and it's noticeably cleaner, no clinker at all, bit pricey and difficult to find decent supply of (compared to coke or anthracite) but doesn't seem like an completely unreasonable suggestion, especially as it doubles as carbon capture
329
12/03/2021 11:08:27 7 4
bbc
Completely unfeasible.
Steel produced this way would burn a world of "sustainable" forests in a year & cost five times as much.
Meanwhile, China would burn even more coal as those wanting cheap steel sourced it there.
355
12/03/2021 11:24:09 4 5
bbc
So you're all for cutting down forests? That's not a very green outlook is it?
394
12/03/2021 11:30:22 2 2
bbc
A laudable aim, but even with 100% bio-carbon substitution for as much of the steel making process as is practicable, it will still require 495Kg of coal in the coking process to make 1 tonne of steel... (Source: BioClean Tech Forum, Canada)
85
12/03/2021 10:43:09 81 29
bbc
Hardly government U turn, initial decision made by local authorities. BBC your reporting is do one sided it’s embarrassing
106
12/03/2021 10:45:07 43 36
bbc
"Hardly government U turn"

The Government stated there were not going to call in the application, now they are holding a Public Inquiry.

That's a massive U-turn.
237
12/03/2021 10:54:22 11 7
bbc
Agreed. Most BBC reporting is biased these days
305
12/03/2021 11:17:47 7 10
bbc
If you hate the Beeb so much, why come here?
588
12/03/2021 11:56:21 3 4
bbc
Actually Shock, you'll find that the government initially said there was no need for them to be involved. But then global outcry (including John Kerry) and they **** their pants because they're desperate to remain popular and with COP coming up don't want to look like a bunch of contrary ?????
And if you want to know how one-sided the BBC is, look at who the new director general is...a Tory donor!
23
12/03/2021 10:31:33 678 137
bbc
Question is....

As we need coal to make steel, do we want to mine it locally & ‘cleanly’, or import ‘dirty-mined’ coal.

My vote is local ‘clean’ coal rather than dirty coal from thousands of miles away which has additional climate impact.
86
12/03/2021 10:43:17 31 26
bbc
That's absolutely true on the face of it- but it's been reported the coal wouldn't be suitable for steel making anyway. That's for the enquiry to determine I guess.
333
12/03/2021 11:12:01 6 4
bbc
Reported by whom?
Let me guess; "someone on social media".
I guess they know more than the geologists & experts advising the mining company, or the steelworks which used to use coal from the same seams.
If the coal wasn't of the type used for coking, nobody would want it, so the mine would never even have been proposed.
13
12/03/2021 10:30:20 7 14
bbc
On he 100% guaranteed with this corrupt incompetent Government are “U” turns at every difficulty they face.....maybe time to backtrack on Brexit? I fully expect a backlash from ultra right wing and gammons who only have there own interests at heart and ignore the plight of the rest of the UK workers and SME emp'yers
87
12/03/2021 10:43:27 4 1
bbc
Those that cannot win an argument resort to insults. I am far from being rightwing, I belong to a trade union, I have voted Liberal, Labour and LD for most of my adult life. I do not have a personal interest to defend and I am a well educated freethinker. I very much care about the poorer parts of the U.K. So, what is truthful about your comment?
23
12/03/2021 10:31:33 678 137
bbc
Question is....

As we need coal to make steel, do we want to mine it locally & ‘cleanly’, or import ‘dirty-mined’ coal.

My vote is local ‘clean’ coal rather than dirty coal from thousands of miles away which has additional climate impact.
If you think England is going to have a viable steel industry under the Evil Tories you are sorely mistaken. They don't subsidize industries like steel. The subsidize farmers who vote for them.

Asian steel will cost a fraction of English steel and the Evil Tories are always in a race to the bottom so they will let English steel disappear.
Removed
161
12/03/2021 10:54:18 33 3
bbc
So you want to subsidise an industry that pumps CO2 into the atmosphere instead of one that absorbs CO2?

I don't think you have thought through your argument, just got carried away with the idea you could throw in the word 'Evil' as often as possible.
182
12/03/2021 10:57:14 6 3
bbc
Evil, evil Tories!

You could make a catchy song out of that.
186
12/03/2021 10:57:42 13 19
bbc
The problem wasn't your "hated Tories" for no subsidising - it was the hateful EUSSR that has subsidy controls (but turns a blind eye when it is French or Italian).
In fact, why your beloved Corbyn also wanted out of the EUSSR - so he could spend other people's money to put bail out no-hoper industries and workshy Unions and Trots.
282
12/03/2021 11:14:14 6 4
bbc
How old are you? "Evil Tories"?
331
12/03/2021 11:21:21 4 1
bbc
You're not supposed to be on here during schooltime, shouldn't you be doing PE or History?
435
12/03/2021 11:36:39 0 0
bbc
They subsidise Farmers because a lot of them have Farms!
41
12/03/2021 10:35:47 4 2
bbc
Where is the evidence we export 85% to Europe/EU?
89
12/03/2021 10:43:35 0 2
bbc
The EU tariffs on coal/coke import to EU are high, making such export non-competitive.
39
12/03/2021 10:35:25 4 16
bbc
How ridiculous to even contemplate a new coal mine while the world is in such a precarious position
90
12/03/2021 10:43:40 0 1
bbc
The coal will still be used irrespective of whether the mine is opened, so won’t make any difference, just means coal will be imported
73
12/03/2021 10:41:46 90 11
bbc
The thing is we still need steel for building an manufacturing, and to make steel you need coal to act as a source of Carbon.

So is it ok to import coal for Steel making from other countries but not use our own resources.
91
12/03/2021 10:43:42 38 65
bbc
"to make steel you need coal to act as a source of Carbon"

Not the case, the coal is used to reduce the iron ore - green hydrogen can be used instead.
353
12/03/2021 11:23:40 8 4
bbc
The people that dislike your argument, do so because they do not understand the issue.
398
12/03/2021 11:30:42 9 2
bbc
wish it was that easy. Steel companies are working hard towards this, but are no where near yet.
402
12/03/2021 11:27:39 8 5
bbc
Green hydrogen, ?? more like methane
555
12/03/2021 11:50:04 12 4
bbc
Nonsense, as there's no viable source of "green" hydrogen in the quantities needed.
602
12/03/2021 11:58:28 7 3
bbc
Have you ever looked at the energy required to create hydrogen?
I assume not.
729
12/03/2021 12:16:49 8 4
bbc
green hydrogen - really? needs 4GW of electricity for 1GW of hydrogen - you worked out how much hydrogen Port Talbot would need even if the technology existing at scale? Of course you've not because you don't want the facts to get in the way of your evangelism and current scientific reality.

Even those in the "green hydrogen" business say this is 15-20 years off - in meantime we need coke
933
12/03/2021 12:59:56 5 2
bbc
Hint: steel is often described as "an alloy of iron (Fe) and carbon (C)"...
And where do you think the carbon comes from?
12/03/2021 13:16:54 4 1
bbc
Careful Dave, don't go bringing facts and knowledge into the discussion, you'll upset the 'kippers who are still trying as hard as they can to take the UK back to the 70s, when it basically went bankrupt under their watch.
12/03/2021 13:36:43 2 0
bbc
Green hydrogen, what's that?

Steel production is driven by costs and coke is the cheapest other ingredient.

Hydrogen might work at small scale production, but not not at the global scale.

Agreed there's lots available, but it's tightly bound to oxygen in stuff called water,
12/03/2021 14:37:08 1 0
bbc
The HYBRIT project in Sweden perhaps you mean. Their problem is that it is now 30 to 40% too costly. They see a viable COMMERCIAL process by 2045 which just happens to be Sweden's 0% carbon target
12/03/2021 20:03:54 1 0
bbc
The fallacy of green Hydrogen. At the moment Hydrogen production requires approx. 70% energy input to 30% output. not very green by any measure
13/03/2021 10:23:39 0 0
bbc
Yea but we are hoping to make more than one fork's worth of steel. That technology isn't yet capable of Industrial size production, and it may never be.
13/03/2021 22:33:51 0 0
bbc
Not the case. Steel for contains carbon. The higher the carbon content the harder the steel. High carbon steel is used for very hard steel used in springs and machine tools.
52
12/03/2021 10:38:03 3 11
bbc
Coal is coal no matter what’s it’s used for. Johnson needs to ditch the proposal or risk worldwide ridicule at COP26.
92
12/03/2021 10:43:47 0 1
bbc
So what do you replace Steel with?
66
12/03/2021 10:41:05 54 4
bbc
I am pretty confident that very soon after the climate conference the new mine will get the go-ahead.
93
12/03/2021 10:44:02 51 15
bbc
Agree. Hoping the stalling tactic works. As for Ed Milliband, his statement was totally clueless.
795
12/03/2021 12:28:05 2 0
bbc
Milliband who didn't know the price of a loaf of bread, if I recall.
11
12/03/2021 10:30:15 7 3
bbc
What will we put on our barbecues this summer now?
94
12/03/2021 10:44:18 2 1
bbc
Oh and don't use dry wood or wood pellets as it produces too much pollution.
95
12/03/2021 10:44:19 64 11
bbc
Maybe some on here should have listened more when in school during their Chemistry Lessons on the difference between Coal and Coking Coal.
Also when will alot of people wake up to the fact that Steel produced within the UK will be of a better quality than from China and make us self sufficient and for now Coking Coal is one of those raw ingredients.
300
12/03/2021 11:16:44 45 10
bbc
I agree, steel manufactured here will attract a huge premium because of the quality.

Also the boost to the local economy would be massive, and of course to the country.
772
12/03/2021 12:24:26 6 2
bbc
Why do posters on here think that UK-produced steel will be "better quality" than Chinese steel? People who buy steel do so against a specification. Either the product meets the specification or it is not fit for purpose. There are many different types of steel. It does not come in "best quality" and "seconds" as you seem to imagine.
12/03/2021 13:38:46 1 1
bbc
Go on then, enlighten us all.

What is the difference?
11
12/03/2021 10:30:15 7 3
bbc
What will we put on our barbecues this summer now?
96
12/03/2021 10:44:27 5 1
bbc
Uhm Charcoal which is a product of burning wood in the absence of oxygen? you have never actually used coal on your BBQ i would suggest as it burns to hot, and the anthracite they are mining would melt your BBQ.
36
12/03/2021 10:35:13 4 7
bbc
Well well. It's really not like this government to u-turn is it?
97
12/03/2021 10:44:27 2 0
bbc
Well, they're not allowed to reconsider any subject, revaluate and come to a different decision... No, it's a 'U-turn' and everyone gets up in arms.

What happened to debate and reasoned argument with the ability to amend ones decision?
98
12/03/2021 10:44:29 1 3
bbc
Let's not use coal at all!

The Steel industry is the biggest consumer of coal in this country at 0.8 tonnes of coal per tonne of steel made, producing 2.1 tonnes of CO2.

Bio-carbon, a way of obtaining the necessary carbon for steel from managed and sustainable forests, is actually CARBON NEGATIVE!

We need to scale these sustainable alternatives so they're more economical than coal.
99
12/03/2021 10:44:37 2 0
bbc
It's not about common sense.
He risks humiliation just by looking at him.

He is such a mess. He is in honesty an embarrassment of a man. He can't comb his hair, he can't get a shirt that fits him, and he's the leader of this country? Stands to reason why the UK is in such a mess, have you seen the state of our PM?
Removed
100
stu
12/03/2021 10:44:43 9 6
bbc
I for one am glad we have a walking talking example of how appearances are completely irrelevant. too many people spend far too much time and effort trying to persuade us that it matters
123
12/03/2021 10:48:38 1 6
bbc
Guess you were a former Screaming Lord Sutch supporter, Stu ?