'Right to repair' law to come in this summer
10/03/2021 | news | business | 921
Manufacturers will be obliged to make spare parts for appliances available to consumers.
1
jon
10/03/2021 10:42:44 151 6
bbc
All good intensions. But will it work if the cost of replacing with new is lower than the repair cost?
4
10/03/2021 10:44:26 38 6
bbc
Er, no.
17
10/03/2021 10:47:10 15 3
bbc
The same thought had occurred to me too. The last couple of quotes I've had for repair of such items have been ridiculous because labour charges have pushed the repair to a level where I've considered I may as well pay the extra and get something new, rather than pay for the repair and still end up with a ten year old appliance that something else could easily go wrong on.
Hire a Pole. He will do it cheaper than an over-charging Brit. Removed
23
10/03/2021 10:48:44 19 2
bbc
Indeed - in my experience, the problem isn't availability of parts, it's the cost and hassle of the labour. If the options are either waiting a week for a surly cowboy to charge you £150 for half an hour's work to repair your 3-year-old washing machine (with no guarantee that it won't break down again in the near future), or buying a new one for £250, it's a no-brainer for most.
31
Ian
10/03/2021 10:50:04 19 2
bbc
"All good intensions. But will it work if the cost of replacing with new is lower than the repair cost?"

Then there's a design problem if you're designing something to be disposable rather than repairable. The design needs to be changed to allow repairs, and this would allow for higher quality, longer lasting materials. You may pay a little more, but less waste and longer lasting.
116
10/03/2021 11:05:58 9 2
bbc
Good intentions asside, if we import tat from China this won't be taken up...when you get told there is a £70 call out fee before your machine is even diagnosed it is a gamble ..
155
10/03/2021 11:13:57 4 0
bbc
If new machines are better engineered, they'll probably cost more to buy. If designed to be maintained, the new ones should be cheaper to repair. Could work.
263
10/03/2021 11:34:27 7 0
bbc
I needed new baskets for my 5 year old dishwasher as the old ones went rusty in places.
£120 a pair!
Might be cheaper than a new machine but what’s ripoff for something so simple to make. Not exactly cutting edge technology!
277
10/03/2021 11:36:50 4 0
bbc
Bigger picture, if you care about the environment, it's the cost / benefit analysis thing, which is not always about money.
285
10/03/2021 11:38:46 5 1
bbc
Wow - you've managed to completely miss the point!

They are built to fail and designed to be unrepairable. It's a business trick to keep people buying the same thing repeatedly.

It's actually much easier to build things to last.

Would you like your house made of cardboard?
The price would be really competitive, but you would need to keep chopping down trees to replace it every time it rains.
293
10/03/2021 11:40:19 1 0
bbc
You know, the market economy works like this.
Think of the ink cartridges: if the original ones cost too much, compatible parts will be produced at a lower price.
And if goods are designed to be repaired, it should bring down also the cost of the service.
410
10/03/2021 12:22:32 4 0
bbc
No sane person pays someone else to repair an item. That is the point of this. Paid repairers have no problems getting the parts and identifying them.

Obviously paying some to repair a simple production line mass production item will never be economic over just replacing new. Our own time has no value cost. Always diy everything you can.
445
stu
10/03/2021 12:40:45 4 0
bbc
Buy a set of tools and if you use them more than once, they pay for themselves.

it's really not rocket science to repair something as simple as a washing machine. I'd understand fully if we were talking about rebuilding an automatic gearbox
458
10/03/2021 12:51:57 3 0
bbc
IMHO, more people should learn to repair their own stuff. If you start 'getting a man in' to repair things then yes, the costs are likely to be higher than buying new. There are many excellent video guides on the Internet on how to mend most things - have a go and make it happen!
639
10/03/2021 15:17:29 0 1
bbc
If it costs more to replace than repair them the spares are wrongly priced and the design poor. Both should result in long jail sentences and horrendous costs for the company as both are avoidable
838
11/03/2021 08:42:55 0 0
bbc
Printers are a fine example.

A set of new cartridges cost more or the same as a new printer.

The manufacturer will fit chips in the cartridges that prevent cheaper clone cartridges from working.

Laptop power supplies the same. When mine failed, took it apart, found a chip that the PC recognises and forces users to buy the expensive manufacturers item.

The make? Dell
2
10/03/2021 10:43:48 17 1
bbc
Manufacturers will just find another way to make their machines obsolete.
236
10/03/2021 11:28:19 2 1
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With electronics in most things it is easy to make them die after a manufacturer specified time ! Without reverse engineering the software it will be difficult to prove this particularly if some random elements are included.
680
10/03/2021 16:57:41 0 0
bbc
If I have to buy a big and expensive domestic item I choose the best I can get with the longest manufacturers guarantee. I also look for a British make, but that is difficult. My washing machine is 1 year old and has a further 9 years to go on the manufacturers inclusive warranty. When it is out of guarantee I would hope that I can pay someone to repair it if need be.
3
10/03/2021 10:44:18 320 10
bbc
This should apply to things like mobile phones too....Planned obsolescence should be illegal
19
10/03/2021 10:47:49 66 289
bbc
So you want to still use Window 3.1 & drive a horse & cart.

Obsolescence happens, at what point does it become too difficult to support?
25
10/03/2021 10:49:03 24 3
bbc
That doesn't solve perceived obsolescence .
118
10/03/2021 11:06:27 55 0
bbc
In Australia I have just brought a completely refurbished iPhone 8 with a 1 year warranty from a major supermarket outlet at a fraction of the original price. When this was advertised on national TV they sold out within hours so it can be done.
161
10/03/2021 11:14:47 13 6
bbc
Can't speak for Android, but Apple still supports iPhone models from 5-6 years ago with software updates. Microsoft has continuous support for Windows 10, which in my case was a free upgrade from a Windows 7 licence I paid £45 for in 2009.

You would have a hard job proving that the obsolescence was "planned". Apple will continue to release new phones - that doesn't make the old ones obsolete.
249
10/03/2021 11:31:35 1 1
bbc
Problem is proving that the phone hasn't been abused in anyway.
If the onus is placed onto the manufacturer then you'll pay for it.
258
10/03/2021 11:33:37 8 0
bbc
It's a weekly battle trying to keep my 5 year old smartphone "up to date" or else it'll be bricked. There's absolutely nothing wrong with how it functions but the contact unnecessary, yet apparently "essential" updates, keep threatening to make the phone useless!
1
jon
10/03/2021 10:42:44 151 6
bbc
All good intensions. But will it work if the cost of replacing with new is lower than the repair cost?
4
10/03/2021 10:44:26 38 6
bbc
Er, no.
647
10/03/2021 15:24:33 0 0
bbc
That will be part of the equation. Things sometimes cost less because of the increased production quantities! In principle things will only cost less if they cost less to make and distribute. Things have got cheap in recent years because of low wage manufacturing. And if they are cheap to make then the parts will (should) be cheap also. More people repairing means lower costs of repair.
5
10/03/2021 10:44:38 17 1
bbc
About time! But, will manufacturers make equipment EASY to repair? All very well making it possible but repairs have to be easy to implement or it is a total waste of time.
35
10/03/2021 10:50:42 5 7
bbc
Depends on how much common sense a person has.

If a person doesnt know what end of the screwdriver to hold then I doubt if the law applies
681
10/03/2021 16:58:16 0 0
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I'm with you, about time....as long as one doesn't then need a specialist tool kit to do it...left handed micro torx with an extension bar or some such bowlicks..
892
11/03/2021 13:17:34 0 0
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I foresee an increase in deaths of people who dont know what they are doing
6
10/03/2021 10:44:44 2 2
bbc
It cost me £180 including delivery for a brand new washing machine to a rental property. When it breaks, to assess, then find a part and then get it repaired will cost a large proportion of that cost... the incentive is still there to buy a new washing machine to replace it. If I could give my old (but not old) washing machines away for free and they are recycled that policy is needed too.
162
10/03/2021 11:15:08 1 0
bbc
Think you are missing the point. 'When it breaks' may mean a new detergent tray or a rubber seal for the door, both of which you can easily replace yourself and may not cost more than a few quid. This law means that the maker has to make those parts available for you to purchase. Till now, they kdidn't and you'd have treplace the machine.
7
10/03/2021 10:42:30 7 3
bbc
This is good news and about time, however the greedy manufacturers and stores will just raise their prices to meet these demands, the buyer never ever gets a good deal on anything in rip off Britain.
8
10/03/2021 10:44:59 9 3
bbc
I wish this could apply to so many others things. But the general public also need to appreciate the skill and experience involved in fixing things and not complain about the price of labour. I fee like as a society we are losing the ability to appreciate others skill and expertise.
59
10/03/2021 10:55:03 6 1
bbc
I was thinking about this the other day, if you look at how much (or rather, how little) people in some positions are paid for their labour, it must be a struggle to survive (at least without govt. handouts). Not surprisingly, such positions are generally filled by immigrants.

We need to accept that everyone who works in the UK deserves to earn enough to live on here... for lots of reasons.
9
5XX
10/03/2021 10:45:00 8 9
bbc
What about cars? On many modern cars only a main dealer can open the bonnet.
20
10/03/2021 10:48:08 7 3
bbc
Rubbish, how do you fill screen wash in for a start
36
10/03/2021 10:50:44 3 1
bbc
That's simply not true.
422
10/03/2021 12:29:11 0 0
bbc
I hope that's not true. I've always done all the repairs and maintenance on my 2003 car. I don't think new cars are any different. You do need to buy a OBD2 interface to plug in your laptop, but they cost less than 5l of oil.
10
Ian
10/03/2021 10:45:11 13 6
bbc
I had a toilet, 3 years old. It needed a new seat. Yet, even though the model number and look was the same, they had changed the hole spacing. So had to replace the whole toilet. Mad.

????

"They are keeping a promise to implement EU rules aimed at cutting energy and bills – and reducing the need for new materials."

????????????????????????????????????

Thank goodness for this common sense law.
32
10/03/2021 10:50:11 25 3
bbc
New toilet seats have off centre hinges to allow adjustment for just about every toilet in the world. No need to change the entire toilet at all.
50
10/03/2021 10:53:10 1 1
bbc
There are plenty of toilet seats available that have flexible hole placing.
Ok, you need to have a modicum of skill, and not expect it just to plonk straight on, but it isn't difficult (I have this every time I replace the seat, as none fit directly - ever).
57
10/03/2021 10:54:40 1 1
bbc
If a toilet seat needed replacing within three years, I would not trust the brand to even bother replacing it...

or was the seat subject to heavy industrial usage?
11
10/03/2021 10:45:36 23 2
bbc
You can cut the cost of replacement parts, but if you look at a repair quote most of the money goes to the person fixing it. Until there are tax breaks on repairs or fixed costs you won't see more stuff fixed because it will still be cheaper to replace.
39
10/03/2021 10:51:04 13 1
bbc
You can get insurance if want a "fixed" price.

The new legislation should help the repairers get the parts (for popular items/common faults - they may hold stock).
Eventually, the cost of the repair, and due to market pressures cheaper insurance available.

However, I think the legislation is ill-placed.
IMHO it would have been better to have minimum guarantees so manufacturers improve quality
47
10/03/2021 10:52:49 1 5
bbc
Recently had to ditch a 49" LG TV because the price quoted for the replacement screen was about 1/3 of the TV, and installing it would probably have been the same again.
573
10/03/2021 14:00:05 1 0
bbc
Good quality items are still worth repairing.
12
10/03/2021 10:45:41 51 19
bbc
Wait until your new washing machine hose costs £80 + £40 postage, then your seal costs £45 + £25 postage. and a replacement washing powder tray costs £42 + £18 postage and realise its still cheaper to buy a new one.
62
10/03/2021 10:55:22 43 5
bbc
A quick search online and you can see this isn't true. A hose won't cost more than £5. Power trays are £18. Both with free P+P.
124
10/03/2021 11:03:52 1 0
bbc
Reminds me of Trigger. How's it the same bloody washing machine then!
495
10/03/2021 13:12:29 1 0
bbc
At least it should end the practise of washing machines built on a jig in a factory with no "chassis". Any attempt at significantly dismantling them without a suitable jig and they "implode"
677
10/03/2021 16:51:08 0 0
bbc
There is already a thriving internet spares network and tutorials online on repairing so the self repairer can research what to do. This new law will aid this aim. We should all try and use electrical items for as long as possible. Repair technicians are also out there.
13
10/03/2021 10:46:04 5 1
bbc
Good news for consumers!
14
10/03/2021 10:46:13 1 2
bbc
The more intelligent manufacturer will gain from this as it will enable them to streamline everything.

Only possible issue I foresee is whether this will impact the smaller supplier, hope not
15
10/03/2021 10:46:23 211 5
bbc
Question is, does the law limit the price of the new parts?

If not, then it will effectively be useless.
126
10/03/2021 11:08:27 112 2
bbc
That was my thinking too and don't forget the standard £59.99 P&P charge.
203
10/03/2021 11:22:39 18 0
bbc
Very true. I needed a new starting capacitor for a dishwasher, which is fortunately a standard component used on many motors and was available from several places for £3. However, if I'd bought the identical component from the dishwasher manufacturer I'd have been charged £60! Yes, 20 times as much!
326
10/03/2021 11:52:30 7 3
bbc
I know it's not 'white goods' (are we allowed to use that phrase anymore?)
But remember a while ago, a Motorcycle Mag bought a new bike as parts
The bike new complete from a dealer was around £5,000
Buying it in bits costs £25,000!
Could certainly see a mark up on parts
336
10/03/2021 11:54:44 2 8
bbc
Will it be able to be applied to the woefull leadership as that needs badly fixing.
419
10/03/2021 12:28:15 5 0
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Absolutely! The part should have a price of the original to the manufacturer with only a small percentage added for carrying additional spares.
571
10/03/2021 13:57:32 1 0
bbc
That and the number of parts that are actually available were my initial thoughts.

This is where capitalism comes in, it just takes one company to start doing this well and they will be very successful. The rest will be forever know as expensive to repair and to be avoided.
593
AMc
10/03/2021 14:17:33 7 2
bbc
You might recall we had a right to repair cars/vehicles and engineering companies to produce those components, but the EU banned this practice and only allowed spares to be produced by the car manufacturers themselves, in turn prices shot up.
I believe they call that a monopoly.
Let's hope this is not being repeated, but sadly I doubt it.
605
10/03/2021 14:32:12 1 1
bbc
Big consumer goods companies should be made to run their spares operation as a non-profit-making subsidiary.
628
10/03/2021 15:04:28 0 0
bbc
It wont work, its more people trying to justify their jobs.
16
10/03/2021 10:46:55 17 2
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Forward to the past. Make do and mend. Great. But I'm skeptical it'll happen. Businesses are wedded to fast upgrade cycles as their debt levels won't allow anything else.
695
10/03/2021 17:59:12 0 0
bbc
That is really sadly true.
1
jon
10/03/2021 10:42:44 151 6
bbc
All good intensions. But will it work if the cost of replacing with new is lower than the repair cost?
17
10/03/2021 10:47:10 15 3
bbc
The same thought had occurred to me too. The last couple of quotes I've had for repair of such items have been ridiculous because labour charges have pushed the repair to a level where I've considered I may as well pay the extra and get something new, rather than pay for the repair and still end up with a ten year old appliance that something else could easily go wrong on.
123
10/03/2021 11:07:45 17 1
bbc
But that is the point of right to repair. It means that companies have to make spares available to Average Joe rather than only through specific repairers, and thus you don't have to shell out the huge labour costs if you don't want to
322
10/03/2021 11:50:53 4 0
bbc
This is not about you getting someone in to fix it, it is the consumer being able to gain access to the parts to fix it themselves. At the moment, a lot of safety related spare parts are deemed not for the unqualified to fit, therefore paying someone to do it makes it uneconomical. If you can access the parts and you are competent, then taking the labour out the equation makes the repair viable.
487
10/03/2021 13:06:11 2 0
bbc
That could be the intention of the design to make it hard an risky to repair, glued screens and batteries for example.
829
11/03/2021 07:14:22 0 0
bbc
I would keep the old machine.
We have a zanussi washing machine & creda tumble dryer over 20 yrs old, no repairs. D//washer, cooker, fridge/frzr and m/wave all less than 6 yrs old & all repaired.
New machines don't last like the old. Seems to me what you pay to the retailer for the machine is for the privilege of owning it. If you want it to work for any length of time you need a maint contract.
18
10/03/2021 10:47:16 9 1
bbc
planned obsolescence
3
10/03/2021 10:44:18 320 10
bbc
This should apply to things like mobile phones too....Planned obsolescence should be illegal
19
10/03/2021 10:47:49 66 289
bbc
So you want to still use Window 3.1 & drive a horse & cart.

Obsolescence happens, at what point does it become too difficult to support?
79
10/03/2021 10:58:26 119 5
bbc
You mistake obsolescence with 'planned' obsolescence.

Also, if you have a stand-alone device that uses Win 3.1, then in exactly the same way as a dishwasher operates on it's fixed hardware/firmware, that device will work perfectly well.

I still drive equipment at work on Win 3.1, no issues as it's a closed system.
157
10/03/2021 11:14:13 64 10
bbc
I'm on Windows 7 (paying for extended support). It meets my needs and I'm developing software , web sites, CAD etc. Win10 offers me nothing I need in terms of functionality. I moved my wife's PC to W10 and it runs like treacle. So Win10 means 2 new PC upgrades costing at least £1000. Tell me one Win10 feature I (& others) cannot live without (ex the security updates that could have continued on 7)
217
10/03/2021 11:24:13 47 22
bbc
Actually Windows 7 is still far superior to Windows 10.
242
10/03/2021 11:30:07 21 1
bbc
That is simply because their business model is designed to continually require you the customer to upgrade, and for the business to sell product. A business like Windows, Apple and Samsung could easily manage this if they wanted to.
251
Ian
10/03/2021 11:31:54 26 2
bbc
These days it is possible to get more that 5 years and possibly even 10 years useful life from a PC.
My older PC's are OK for word processing & internet

It is the same with phones.
Once the initial rapid development has passed there is no reason not to keep a phone for 5 years provided the security updates keep coming

This is why I stopped getting Samsung. They were way too quick to stop updates
Removed
262
10/03/2021 11:34:19 9 1
bbc
You still can use W3.1 and drive a horse & cart!

Forced obsolescence is concealed fraudulence wrapped in T's & C's.
343
10/03/2021 11:56:47 10 1
bbc
I think what they are getting at is if a device can still be used which is barely 12 months old, not 12 years old. And something that will deliberately stop a perfectly working device from functioning purely because one has changed a screen, battery or swapped out a camera module for example. i.e iphone 12 well known for doing this.
357
10/03/2021 12:01:57 17 0
bbc
What is Windows 3.1?
I am still running cp/m.
I just upgraded to a full 64k of ram.
I heard that there was a new fangled MSDos out.
363
10/03/2021 12:05:20 1 0
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Nothing like a bit of hyperbolic projection to self own.
407
10/03/2021 12:20:14 4 0
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Difference between obsolescence and built to fail or be incapable of repair. They are two completely different things.
414
10/03/2021 12:25:57 4 0
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Obsolescence happens when efficiency of a replacement is noticeably increased, not because a repair part is ridiculously priced to restrict repair!
469
10/03/2021 12:57:24 3 0
bbc
Obsolescence is not the same as planned obsolescence. A simple example; I've just had to replace my mobile phone which was working prefectly well except for a failing battery. Much better to have changed just the battery but phones with replaceable batteries aren't made any more.
472
10/03/2021 12:59:27 2 0
bbc
Personally I would settle for Windows 7. Much better and without Microsoft interferring with my set-up to plant their own stuff under guise of updates.
506
10/03/2021 13:17:58 2 1
bbc
There is a very big deference between innovation and deliberate planned obsolescence.
9
5XX
10/03/2021 10:45:00 8 9
bbc
What about cars? On many modern cars only a main dealer can open the bonnet.
20
10/03/2021 10:48:08 7 3
bbc
Rubbish, how do you fill screen wash in for a start
21
10/03/2021 10:48:26 13 2
bbc
I've been repairing my hoovers, tumble dryers and washing machines for years. The parts are already available online for next day delivery.

Trouble is the public think these things (same for cars) cannot be repaired anymore by the public and that misconception gets repeated.
71
10/03/2021 10:57:02 7 2
bbc
Sadly a lot of these items are made to be hard to repair, and good luck getting hold of a service manual.

I watched an examination of an iPhone 12 recently. If you swap the identical parts from one to another it stops working. Deliberately not repairable.
1
jon
10/03/2021 10:42:44 151 6
bbc
All good intensions. But will it work if the cost of replacing with new is lower than the repair cost?
Hire a Pole. He will do it cheaper than an over-charging Brit. Removed
Yeah, a Pole living in a shared 8 to a room with a rent of £50 a month, and take work from the Brit with kids and a mortgage.

You'll find few Poles supporting our pubs at £4/5 a pint. Street drinking suffices. Much cheaper.

Now go to Poland and ask them what they think of the Ukrainians undercutting the Polish workers, by having that lower overhead.
There is no love loss.
Removed
1
jon
10/03/2021 10:42:44 151 6
bbc
All good intensions. But will it work if the cost of replacing with new is lower than the repair cost?
23
10/03/2021 10:48:44 19 2
bbc
Indeed - in my experience, the problem isn't availability of parts, it's the cost and hassle of the labour. If the options are either waiting a week for a surly cowboy to charge you £150 for half an hour's work to repair your 3-year-old washing machine (with no guarantee that it won't break down again in the near future), or buying a new one for £250, it's a no-brainer for most.
493
10/03/2021 13:09:08 0 0
bbc
How about if they charge you for recycling the old one?
24
10/03/2021 10:48:58 4 1
bbc
Good move; throwaway culture has to stop if we're ever going to become sustainable. Will be interested to see how much effect it really has, though: prices for spares are still set by manufacturers, so they can easily make it too expensive to economically repair something, even if it is technically doable.

Energy labelling... meh... does anyone actually look at that when buying an appliance?
134
10/03/2021 11:10:00 0 0
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Energy labeling... I look, yes.
182
10/03/2021 11:20:04 0 0
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I do. If two things cost the same to purchase and do the same job, why would you buy the one that cost more to run.
3
10/03/2021 10:44:18 320 10
bbc
This should apply to things like mobile phones too....Planned obsolescence should be illegal
25
10/03/2021 10:49:03 24 3
bbc
That doesn't solve perceived obsolescence .
26
10/03/2021 10:49:08 7 1
bbc
This is a really good idea, but I'm not convinced it will work as intended yet... only time will tell.
Many recently enacted laws seem rather 'woolly' and more motivated by 'doing the right thing' than any real thought being given to how they're going to be implemented practically.
Maybe it's more about BEING SEEN to be doing the RIGHT THING, than actually doing it? Or maybe I'm just cynical?
27
10/03/2021 10:49:28 0 1
bbc
Handling and administration charges?
28
10/03/2021 10:44:10 4 9
bbc
These are old EU rules - some of the few good ideas retained by our populist govt.

However, make no mistake - Boris and co will seek to water down most of our consumer protections, post-Brexit.

If I get multiple down arrows for this, it will be because the truth hurts.
70
10/03/2021 10:56:57 2 3
bbc
Or you get the down arrows for turning good news into a political, pessimistic soapbox.

This will help people & the environment.
29
10/03/2021 10:45:57 36 3
bbc
There are plenty of places online where you can already buy spare parts for most household appliances and fitting them is usually not that difficult. But, even with this new rule, most people still won't bother.
45
10/03/2021 10:52:38 34 2
bbc
Exactly right. Just typing the model number into Youtube usually comes up with a video on how to repair it and links to where to buy the parts.
49
10/03/2021 10:53:10 1 2
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That is their choice.
716
10/03/2021 18:56:24 0 0
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Yes but it gives everyone choices.
847
11/03/2021 09:11:21 0 0
bbc
Usual excuse is "it's too difficult", "I don't know how", "I'd rather watch Netflix", "I'm too tired", "I don't know which end of the screwdriver to use".

They can find a new appliance quick enough, but finding the washing machine hose is just too much effort.
30
10/03/2021 10:49:58 6 9
bbc
Don't forget the extra cost of importing the parts from the EU...
48
10/03/2021 10:52:52 6 3
bbc
Not everything is made in the EU. But your fact-free posts tend to be driven by petty politics.

This is good news for a lot of people.
113
10/03/2021 11:05:21 0 0
bbc
Maybe we should start manufacturing those parts in the UK again, rather than importing them from the EU? Actually, most will be shipped from China regardless of if we're in the EU, or out, because... well, the labour there (willing, or not) is remarkably cheap.

I'm sorry you were unhappy about Brexit, really I am, but it's time to move on now.
1
jon
10/03/2021 10:42:44 151 6
bbc
All good intensions. But will it work if the cost of replacing with new is lower than the repair cost?
31
Ian
10/03/2021 10:50:04 19 2
bbc
"All good intensions. But will it work if the cost of replacing with new is lower than the repair cost?"

Then there's a design problem if you're designing something to be disposable rather than repairable. The design needs to be changed to allow repairs, and this would allow for higher quality, longer lasting materials. You may pay a little more, but less waste and longer lasting.
240
10/03/2021 11:29:22 2 1
bbc
You have a dilemma. You want to make it compact, cheap and reliable, then if it's designed properly, you want high integration and as few parts as possible.

You want it repairable, you design it with discrete parts that can be replaced. But replaceable parts make production costs higher, and can, as in socketed integrated circuits, make the device much larger and more likely to break down.
615
10/03/2021 14:49:08 0 1
bbc
It is swings and roundabouts Either the thing costs more and lasts longer and is worth repairing. Or it is cheap and will be thrown away. WM used to be £300+ back when £300 was half a months wage. now I can by one for less than £200 easily. a call out will be £60 min plus parts and labor after 2 years is it worth it ?. TV are cheaper than they ever have been £399 50 inch 4k.
10
Ian
10/03/2021 10:45:11 13 6
bbc
I had a toilet, 3 years old. It needed a new seat. Yet, even though the model number and look was the same, they had changed the hole spacing. So had to replace the whole toilet. Mad.

????

"They are keeping a promise to implement EU rules aimed at cutting energy and bills – and reducing the need for new materials."

????????????????????????????????????

Thank goodness for this common sense law.
32
10/03/2021 10:50:11 25 3
bbc
New toilet seats have off centre hinges to allow adjustment for just about every toilet in the world. No need to change the entire toilet at all.
78
Ian
10/03/2021 10:58:15 0 2
bbc
I know. Nothing worked on this model.
33
10/03/2021 10:50:11 2 2
bbc
Postage, package and transportation insurance charges.
34
10/03/2021 10:50:26 4 2
bbc
They can make spare parts available, but if they are available only at one location, and at high cost, then most people won't benefit from this.
5
10/03/2021 10:44:38 17 1
bbc
About time! But, will manufacturers make equipment EASY to repair? All very well making it possible but repairs have to be easy to implement or it is a total waste of time.
35
10/03/2021 10:50:42 5 7
bbc
Depends on how much common sense a person has.

If a person doesnt know what end of the screwdriver to hold then I doubt if the law applies
9
5XX
10/03/2021 10:45:00 8 9
bbc
What about cars? On many modern cars only a main dealer can open the bonnet.
36
10/03/2021 10:50:44 3 1
bbc
That's simply not true.
37
10/03/2021 10:50:51 7 1
bbc
As a former SERVIS UK employee, I can tell you the drive for repairable machines will be short lived. There is no longer the expertise, Infrastructure or support to manage a nationwide fleet of repair agents across all brands. What you will get is the current crop of 'badged' service agents (British G@s or similar) fixing the simple things you can do yourself, or just condemning the appliance.
95
10/03/2021 11:01:41 1 1
bbc
My Servis washer is getting near the end of its life now. Just started leaking after 26 years of regular use. No built-in obsolescence there!
38
10/03/2021 10:51:01 8 2
bbc
I hope this applies to taps too.
Used to be able to buy a cheap washer and fix it yourself.
Now you have to find the correct cartridge for your tap and that is not always easy.
Tried fixing my own dripping tap once and ended up paying £200 for a plumber as nothing was standard!!
80
10/03/2021 10:58:27 6 1
bbc
I agree. I had bathroom basin taps replaced, only a few years old, cold tap now dripping & have been told no washers on these new taps, they instead have "plates" & it now both taps will have to be completely replaced! Nice looking taps but a complete waste of money, time & effort. So beware when buying taps, check they have washers which are replaceable and not plates which are not.
11
10/03/2021 10:45:36 23 2
bbc
You can cut the cost of replacement parts, but if you look at a repair quote most of the money goes to the person fixing it. Until there are tax breaks on repairs or fixed costs you won't see more stuff fixed because it will still be cheaper to replace.
39
10/03/2021 10:51:04 13 1
bbc
You can get insurance if want a "fixed" price.

The new legislation should help the repairers get the parts (for popular items/common faults - they may hold stock).
Eventually, the cost of the repair, and due to market pressures cheaper insurance available.

However, I think the legislation is ill-placed.
IMHO it would have been better to have minimum guarantees so manufacturers improve quality
471
10/03/2021 12:58:20 0 0
bbc
Watch what happens in the next three to six months. The cost of spares will slowly increase, so the cost of insurance will too.
40
10/03/2021 10:51:10 14 3
bbc
About 2 years ago I bought a new cooker; it rattled. They sent someone to look at it, they said it needed some new shelves.

Then I was told me 3 months for the new parts which I said was not acceptable. The retailer agreed, so instead they shipped me a brand new cooker the very next day !

How does that work then ? New part - 3 months. New cooker - 1 day !
527
10/03/2021 13:30:44 0 0
bbc
Good customer service.
843
11/03/2021 08:56:26 0 0
bbc
Because there is most likely a warehouse of cookers near you or a local Currys with them ready. Meanwhile the shelf will be coming from china and is possibly on back order if there has been a batch of cookers made with rattling parts. Pretty logical really.
41
10/03/2021 10:51:26 158 4
bbc
Does the legislation address the cost of spares? No point replacing a control board that costs £200 on a £250 washing machine....
77
10/03/2021 10:58:08 160 3
bbc
This is true. I dismantled an otherwise fully working Bosch washing machine to find the fault was the control board.
Cost for new control board, £260, cost for new washing machine £250.
206
10/03/2021 11:22:53 6 8
bbc
Legislation can only address the cost of spares in the kind of closed, North Korean, command economy that you lot yearn for. Elsewhere, it is costs of labour, raw materials, capital equipment and premises, and market forces that set prices. If you want manufacturers to hold pricey spares for twenty or thirty years, or make them by hand in small batches, they are going to be even more pricey.
275
Ian
10/03/2021 11:36:34 17 6
bbc
I would not trust a £250 machine not to flood or catch fire.

My £400 to £500 machines nearly always work as new after 10 years and rarely break down.

Really cheap appliances can work out to be the most expensive.
369
10/03/2021 12:07:24 12 0
bbc
What's really annoying, is when you lift the lid on a lot of the electronics, the components cost pennies and often the most expensive item will be the actual PCB that the components are mounted on. I'm buying transistors now at a fraction of their cost 20 years ago. The manufacturers should be supplying circuit diagrams and firmware so that boards can be repaired cheaply instead of landfilled.
666
10/03/2021 16:13:59 0 0
bbc
Surely this doesn't have to be explained to an intelligent person, the point is that people should be now given the choice and no be at the mercy of a workman's opinion!
678
10/03/2021 16:51:46 0 0
bbc
True but the main reason the board is so expensive is that they are kept scarce to force you to buy another washer - it's part of the same scam.
913
11/03/2021 16:05:24 0 0
bbc
... and that is where these changes will fail...

The manufacturers will simply keep the prices of spare parts at such high costs that it simply isn't worth repairing the item...

Why repair something that costs you almost as much as it would to buy it new again and at least buying it new you will have a new full guarantee with the item...

These changes won't make the slightest difference, sadly.
921
11/03/2021 23:25:48 0 0
bbc
No it doesn't but if you allow the community to safely remove these parts, cosmetic and functional, the recycled spares become worth money to the community and can be collected by Registered Repairers, trained to a Qualification as a Circular Economy Repairer. It also stops the items being taken by Corporate Collection entities. Here's a look at the model. bit.ly/eee_penny
42
10/03/2021 10:51:30 3 4
bbc
All I can hear is ‘Oh the parts are made in EU and take 3 weeks!’ Or ‘yes that piece costs more than new with my 3 hours time, happy to do it’
43
10/03/2021 10:50:26 5 8
bbc
Lets hope those equally greedy repair men (persons) lower their obscene labour charges, including call out charges, this is what costs the most when getting a repair, if these cowboys towed the line then it would a lot fairer and good for the planet to boot. But of course they won't.
107
10/03/2021 11:03:38 1 2
bbc
I am not a tradesman but considering that the for self employed tradesmen time is money as is travelling to a dwelling why shouldn't they charge?
As for their labour costs they are calculated to include any overheads like rent, business rates, public liability insurance and of course gas and lecky. Toeing the line is not what you want a good repair is!
166
10/03/2021 11:16:58 1 1
bbc
The charges are not "obscene." They are just more than you want to pay someone who knows more than you do to do something that you cannot. If you think that repair technicians are coining it, there is nothing whatsoever stopping you becoming one, is there? (The phrase is "toe the line," by the way. It has nothing to do with towing.)
265
10/03/2021 11:34:39 0 0
bbc
Yeah, that's why they all have Ferraris as job cars, isn't it.
318
10/03/2021 11:49:54 0 0
bbc
You forget the the callout/labour charges have to include the travelling cost and time as well as the time spent actually doing the repair. If repairs are made to be easier, then more people will be able to do them which means travelling time/cost reduces as they will be more local. Sorry for the logical response instead of a ranting one.
577
10/03/2021 14:03:10 0 0
bbc
They have to make a living and there is free competition, so what they are charging is probably the going rate. It's always worth working out what is wrong before a repairman arrives, so that you know you're only paying for necessary work. If you want to save money then just do the repair yourself, as there are plenty of online sites providing spares and videos to show you how to do the repair.
44
10/03/2021 10:52:29 7 2
bbc
Good news, but it doesn't consider labour costs of a call-out to assess why the appliance isn't working & then to install any spare parts (possibly requiring a second visit). This often makes repairing an appliance uneconomical.

There's no easy solution to this problem. Perhaps the government might consider making labour charges for repairs exempt from VAT?
29
10/03/2021 10:45:57 36 3
bbc
There are plenty of places online where you can already buy spare parts for most household appliances and fitting them is usually not that difficult. But, even with this new rule, most people still won't bother.
45
10/03/2021 10:52:38 34 2
bbc
Exactly right. Just typing the model number into Youtube usually comes up with a video on how to repair it and links to where to buy the parts.
215
10/03/2021 11:23:58 0 0
bbc
I can just see the average householder going in for this. One for the boys who begin by pulling things apart.
694
10/03/2021 17:55:25 0 0
bbc
This assumes the person already own the tools required to carry out said repair, which really isn't the case a lot of the time. Im 37 and have just bought my very first electric drill, which let's be honest will only be used once or twice a year so that in itself is quite wasteful. I really wish there was a "library" where one could borrow tools locally for a day or two.
We should also have the right to remove any royal titles from Megan. Well done Piers for speaking for the majority. Removed
60
10/03/2021 10:55:12 1 3
bbc
?
88
10/03/2021 11:00:19 0 1
bbc
Sad little person. You are in the minority. Suck it up.
11
10/03/2021 10:45:36 23 2
bbc
You can cut the cost of replacement parts, but if you look at a repair quote most of the money goes to the person fixing it. Until there are tax breaks on repairs or fixed costs you won't see more stuff fixed because it will still be cheaper to replace.
47
10/03/2021 10:52:49 1 5
bbc
Recently had to ditch a 49" LG TV because the price quoted for the replacement screen was about 1/3 of the TV, and installing it would probably have been the same again.
30
10/03/2021 10:49:58 6 9
bbc
Don't forget the extra cost of importing the parts from the EU...
48
10/03/2021 10:52:52 6 3
bbc
Not everything is made in the EU. But your fact-free posts tend to be driven by petty politics.

This is good news for a lot of people.
279
10/03/2021 11:37:06 0 0
bbc
You're right, much of it is made in China or Turkey now but name white goods still made in the UK from UK parts; I'm not aware of any.
29
10/03/2021 10:45:57 36 3
bbc
There are plenty of places online where you can already buy spare parts for most household appliances and fitting them is usually not that difficult. But, even with this new rule, most people still won't bother.
49
10/03/2021 10:53:10 1 2
bbc
That is their choice.
10
Ian
10/03/2021 10:45:11 13 6
bbc
I had a toilet, 3 years old. It needed a new seat. Yet, even though the model number and look was the same, they had changed the hole spacing. So had to replace the whole toilet. Mad.

????

"They are keeping a promise to implement EU rules aimed at cutting energy and bills – and reducing the need for new materials."

????????????????????????????????????

Thank goodness for this common sense law.
50
10/03/2021 10:53:10 1 1
bbc
There are plenty of toilet seats available that have flexible hole placing.
Ok, you need to have a modicum of skill, and not expect it just to plonk straight on, but it isn't difficult (I have this every time I replace the seat, as none fit directly - ever).
51
10/03/2021 10:53:26 8 2
bbc
Would you rather have the choice to be able to repair a broken item, or not?

Like any other thing, you’ll need to make a balance of investment decision, but I’d much rather have the option than having to resort to buying a new “thing” whenever a widget breaks.
52
10/03/2021 10:53:26 9 6
bbc
Right to repair is pointless if the cost of repair is too high, which it will be.
110
10/03/2021 10:56:21 1 0
bbc
Cost is only too high as manufacturers want it that way
53
10/03/2021 10:54:02 6 7
bbc
Does that include the Brexit 2.0 'what can possibly go wrong' model we all bought last Christmas?
68
10/03/2021 10:56:26 2 2
bbc
Oven ready remember, what a joke!
54
10/03/2021 10:54:24 18 1
bbc
In this age of technology, what appliances are left that would get a grade C or lower? As for longevity of products, I stupidly bought a high-end fridge, washing machine & dryer a few years ago. The fridge failed completely beyond repair 2 weeks after the warranty ran out & the washer & dryer have all needed repairs within their first 3 years. My £4.50 hand mixer from 15 years ago works perfectly.
136
10/03/2021 11:10:46 4 1
bbc
Well done you, hand whisk In my kitchen was my mothers as is my Spong mincer. Still have same set of saucepans now 47 years old and going strong.
254
10/03/2021 11:32:27 3 1
bbc
EU legislation provided consumer rights beyond warranties on electrical goods - 6 years I think. Have we abandoned that with stupid Brexit?

The high levels of consumer protection provided by EU legislation were hardly mentioned during the Brexit slanging match yet it's the sort of thing most likely to affect most people. That and employment legislation which the government is abandoning.
592
10/03/2021 14:17:04 3 0
bbc
"My £4.50 hand mixer from 15 years ago works perfectly."
As does my Kenwood Chefette (hand mixer) which is now about 55 years old!
Never needed a single repair in all that time.
718
10/03/2021 19:03:15 0 0
bbc
I bought my first house in '94 & bought the appliances too, the washing machine lasted 20 years, the dryer 22 the cooker was given away when I moved. Now the fridge looks like it is on the way out.

I also have a VCR of appx 15 years old & I am on my 4th DVD player in 12 years.

Looks like older stuff lasts longer. You don't need planned obselecence with the 'need' to have the latest stuff.
803
10/03/2021 21:30:20 0 0
bbc
Yes, and I don't think the failure just out of warranty is a coincidence.
55
10/03/2021 10:54:37 124 9
bbc
The one that really annoys me is laptop batteries. You used to be able to switch them out if they died. Now they're built in and can't be replaced so every 4 of 5 years you need to buy a whole new laptop
83
10/03/2021 10:59:10 51 3
bbc
Try Googling a battery swap. I did my laptop - although a bit fiddly - for £20
103
10/03/2021 11:03:12 2 2
bbc
Totally agree. I bought a top of the range laptop 5 years ago and it's still high spec even now. The only reason it's still going is because I specificaly bought one with a swapable battery.
280
10/03/2021 11:37:11 1 0
bbc
While they may not be on the out side any more you can unscrew and replace, I did mine recently for £45 and watching you tube
312
10/03/2021 11:46:04 5 1
bbc
Not found a laptop yet which can't have its battery replaced if you take the back off.
509
10/03/2021 13:18:58 3 0
bbc
I have an HP laptop where the fan is underneath the main board. You have to completely dismantle the whole thing to clean out the fan, which is necessary every few years to avoid frying the processor.
513
10/03/2021 13:22:26 0 0
bbc
To get thinness with long battery life you'll find the battery is distributed throughout the machine. Brave is the person who tries to replace that.
597
10/03/2021 14:27:41 0 0
bbc
With the exception of Apple you normally can replace laptop batteries. Just means dismantling the machine. People want thinner laptops which means interchangable batteries are a thing of the past and are internal now. But unless something like an ultrabook or tablet (and even then it may be do-able) you should be able to replace the battery. Same with a phone.
643
10/03/2021 15:21:05 1 0
bbc
Worse is Lenovo where you can't run the machine plugged into the mains when the battery or its circuit have failed. They should be forced to replace all those machines and pay compensation along with jail for the directors and engineers, there is NO excuse for such a design, none at all
688
10/03/2021 17:27:40 0 0
bbc
elec toothbrushes are definitely like this
841
11/03/2021 08:48:31 0 0
bbc
That's driven by the cost of production, but even more so by the fashion for lighter, thinner devices.

So out go all the ports and the expensive replaceable battery packs.

It's why I stick with desktop PC's - not very portable, but every bit of it is accessible and replaceable or repairable.
863
11/03/2021 11:11:14 0 0
bbc
Soldered in hard drives as well. Hard drives don't usually last as long as a computer.
896
11/03/2021 14:27:42 0 0
bbc
I think this is largely to stop users buying fake replacement batteries off t'internet for a tenner, and fitting it themselves. Too big a chance for it to possibly overheat, catch fire and maybe burn someone's home down. It's annoying but, in this case, I can see why they might do this. They should, however, offer a cheap battery replacement service instead.
56
VF
10/03/2021 10:54:38 35 9
bbc
God we’re a miserable country...

You could find a cure for cancer and 1/2 the population would give a 1000 reasons why they wouldn’t use it or why it wouldn’t work.
69
10/03/2021 10:56:35 25 7
bbc
We are a miserable bunch, you're right, but on the other hand, there's no point in creating new laws if they don't work as intended, and haven't been properly thought through.
705
10/03/2021 18:30:47 0 0
bbc
If I was being pedantic I could point out that 1 in 2 people develop cancer in their lifetime...that would be half of the population...
902
11/03/2021 15:19:28 0 0
bbc
Yeah. Like the Republican (in the USA) who wouldn't get vaccinated because Donald J Trump hadn't made it himself. madness
10
Ian
10/03/2021 10:45:11 13 6
bbc
I had a toilet, 3 years old. It needed a new seat. Yet, even though the model number and look was the same, they had changed the hole spacing. So had to replace the whole toilet. Mad.

????

"They are keeping a promise to implement EU rules aimed at cutting energy and bills – and reducing the need for new materials."

????????????????????????????????????

Thank goodness for this common sense law.
57
10/03/2021 10:54:40 1 1
bbc
If a toilet seat needed replacing within three years, I would not trust the brand to even bother replacing it...

or was the seat subject to heavy industrial usage?
94
Ian
10/03/2021 11:01:38 1 1
bbc
Not really - normal loadage, normal splatter range, standard paper-to-human-product ratio, normal leakage zone
58
10/03/2021 10:54:40 40 2
bbc
Would be great to see this work but suspect the manufacturers and retailers will try to work round it.

It's in their interest to keep repair costs high. Not only will this maintain new product sales, but it also helps sell highly lucrative extended warranty schemes. Retailers allegedly make more money on these schemes than they do on the product itself.
97
10/03/2021 11:01:44 2 1
bbc
I've found repair costs for most items I have to be reasonable so far, when dealing with Western companies, my hoover needs a new wheel motor £50 it should be, but no stock anywhere....
699
10/03/2021 18:14:54 1 0
bbc
I refused an ‘extended warranty’ in a shop and wiped the smile off the assistance’s in an instant. The 5 year warranty would have cost almost 3/4 of the product price. I am pleased to say the product is now over 7 years old and is still going strong!! Lucky? Maybe. Lighter in the pocket? Definitely not!
8
10/03/2021 10:44:59 9 3
bbc
I wish this could apply to so many others things. But the general public also need to appreciate the skill and experience involved in fixing things and not complain about the price of labour. I fee like as a society we are losing the ability to appreciate others skill and expertise.
59
10/03/2021 10:55:03 6 1
bbc
I was thinking about this the other day, if you look at how much (or rather, how little) people in some positions are paid for their labour, it must be a struggle to survive (at least without govt. handouts). Not surprisingly, such positions are generally filled by immigrants.

We need to accept that everyone who works in the UK deserves to earn enough to live on here... for lots of reasons.
We should also have the right to remove any royal titles from Megan. Well done Piers for speaking for the majority. Removed
60
10/03/2021 10:55:12 1 3
bbc
?
61
10/03/2021 10:55:20 16 12
bbc
Introduced by the EU 2 years ago, now we claim it as a great UK victory.
109
10/03/2021 11:04:08 10 2
bbc
Compete rubbish.

The article states it was agreed within the EU (including the UK) 2 years ago. If it was implemented in the EU 2 years ago, it would already have been implemented in the UK as well!
12
10/03/2021 10:45:41 51 19
bbc
Wait until your new washing machine hose costs £80 + £40 postage, then your seal costs £45 + £25 postage. and a replacement washing powder tray costs £42 + £18 postage and realise its still cheaper to buy a new one.
62
10/03/2021 10:55:22 43 5
bbc
A quick search online and you can see this isn't true. A hose won't cost more than £5. Power trays are £18. Both with free P+P.
221
10/03/2021 11:26:01 0 0
bbc
These are often clones that do not work - I brought a new seal from a clone manufacturer and the holes & notches were not in the correct place - they probably do this to avoid the copyright on the parts.
334
MP
10/03/2021 11:53:39 4 0
bbc
I think that you missed the point.
429
10/03/2021 12:31:27 0 0
bbc
Possibly an exaggeration to make a point, don't you think!
617
10/03/2021 14:51:09 0 0
bbc
Except most parts are made in the EU.
709
LH
10/03/2021 18:39:42 0 0
bbc
You did NOT get it, did you?!!!
845
11/03/2021 09:04:34 0 0
bbc
Yes.

There's a thriving after sales market for parts.

Quite often they are the same as the original parts in a different box.

Manufacturers are assemblers who source their parts from the cheapest supplier.

Shrewd home repairers do the same.
898
11/03/2021 14:49:22 0 0
bbc
The rear bearing needs replacing. OK not too expensive, except that you have to replace the front "bearing" and the front mounts, but you can't get all three bits from the same supplier . . . The cost a couple of years ago was WELL over half the cost of a newer, greener drier with a larger drum capacity. (I did keep it going for well over 20 years though, so it really didn't owe us anything!)
63
10/03/2021 10:55:23 59 26
bbc
Does this apply to a government that is malfunctioning
No because Boris is a spare part. Removed
73
10/03/2021 10:57:36 4 1
bbc
are Governments electrical :)
76
10/03/2021 10:58:04 7 3
bbc
already can be repaired, by voting. Trouble is, the first appointment available is in around 3 years!
270
10/03/2021 11:35:48 12 4
bbc
No, because when you look at the "spares" on the opposition front bench, you realise you'll be worse off
715
10/03/2021 18:55:36 2 0
bbc
Wouldn't that be nice!
897
11/03/2021 14:42:53 1 0
bbc
Well, the Theresa Maybot was scrapped a couple of years ago . . . so, I'm guessing "No"? (Sadly she was replaced by the downgraded Boris Hornybot 48k - a basic model with a brain the size of a dust mote, that had already proved itself not up to the task, and certainly one who's processing & calculations should absolutely NOT be trusted to be accurate or honest! £350 million a week . . . ? etc.)
905
11/03/2021 15:28:35 1 0
bbc
The government needs to honour the spirit of its own law by making the NHS Track & Trace app work on a 5-year-old iPhone 5s.
64
10/03/2021 10:55:31 6 12
bbc
It’s hilarious how the BBC can’t bring itself to word an article so that it doesn’t sound like we should be grateful for everything the EU achieved and ashamed we left.

Give it up.

By the way, we were part of the EU, partly responsible for the standards created and the EU Standards Institute was based on the British Standards Institute anyway.
90
10/03/2021 11:01:07 1 1
bbc
This is thanks to the EU. Hilarious you don't see the connection - yes it was based on British standards - something we had a powerful voice in designing / implementing as part of the EU.

Now to sell to the EU, we have to meet their rules without having any say in them - Project Hate "success" in a nutshell
114
10/03/2021 11:05:39 0 0
bbc
Manufacturers will design one product to meet all requirements. If the UK were to introduce even tougher requirements, manufacturers would have to compare the extra cost burdened on every unit shipped to the far larger EU market to the profits made in the small UK market. If they don't stack up, they'll just not ship to the UK.

Business is business...
194
10/03/2021 11:21:13 0 0
bbc
By the way, it's the British Standards Institution ... not Institute. And there is no such thing as the EU Standards Institute. There are three European Standards Organizations: CENELEC, CEN, and ETSI. BSI remains a (non-EEA) member of CENELEC and CEN post Brexit.
65
10/03/2021 10:55:42 10 2
bbc
I agree but the manufacturers will increase cost of item & its parts to claw back the lost profit of selling 3 machines instead of 1. W/machine motors or main control boards are £150+ a lot of the time. Add a £100 call out repairman fee, then VAT and it's £300. Allow end users to be able to repair using cheap OEM parts.

Make manufacturers give long guarantees, they'll make machines last then!!!
104
10/03/2021 11:03:13 1 1
bbc
Spot on. In my experience, the first thing that usually goes on a washing machine is the rubber seal around the door, and that's after 10 years or so of good use. Why would you pay the cost of the replacement seal, £100 call out, labour at £50 an hour minimum, plus VAT, for a machine that's only got a couple more years in it at most?

Modern TVs are un-repairable. Once the panel goes, that's it.
66
10/03/2021 10:55:51 52 1
bbc
Most things can be repaired rather than replaced, and it is not too difficult if you can get the parts.
198
10/03/2021 11:22:10 24 10
bbc
Moral compass time!
It seems the selfish, who presumably missed Attenborough's exposing of the 'consumer society nightmare' they endorse, would "rather buy new, cos it's cheaper"
How can we get through to them?
200
10/03/2021 11:22:13 0 1
bbc
First one needs to make a diagnosis: years ago one could pull something apart and see how it worked, adjust turntable speed, then electronics, then computers.
224
10/03/2021 11:26:21 1 2
bbc
Sweeping statement regarding a far more complex subject. Keeping old stuff going is often keeping very inefficient stuff going.
319
Bob
10/03/2021 11:49:56 5 0
bbc
I agree. The article tries to paint a picture where parts for washing machines can't be found.

They can.

Trouble is people don't want to attempt fixes for themselves. The internet is a blessing for it, too. So many tutorials online on how to fit parts for all kinds of devices, so there's little excuse now.

I've repaired a few things now thanks to that.
447
10/03/2021 12:42:25 2 1
bbc
May not be difficult to repair but the problem is getting the parts for a decent price, I'm not going to pay more for parts than what a newer, bigger, faster, more efficent machine is available. Yes we have the technology and we can rebuild it, but is it worth the cost
546
10/03/2021 13:45:15 3 0
bbc
Firmly agree. Most times when a washing machine goes wrong it's the pump. A 5 minute job requiring a screwdriver. I have been maintaining my cars, motorbikes, bicycles for years. My newest car is 17 years old and sails through MoTs. My newest motorbike is 20 years old and equally well maintained. The thought of paying someone £150 for a service or £50/hr for bolting on new parts doesn't occur.
714
10/03/2021 18:53:10 1 0
bbc
IF you can get the parts and there is associated manuals and that the device can be dismantled.
842
11/03/2021 08:51:49 0 0
bbc
OK.

Here's a challenge.

Replace the microprocessor in your mobile phone, or even the washing machine.

Have fun.
871
11/03/2021 11:17:37 0 0
bbc
Parts is often the problem though because companies don't want you to repair, they want you to buy new.
904
11/03/2021 15:26:32 0 0
bbc
The government needs to honour the spirit of its own law by making the NHS Track & Trace app work on a 5-year-old iPhone 5s.
67
10/03/2021 10:56:14 103 1
bbc
About time too! Fettlers of electronic things have disappeared is my only worry. I may have to come out of retirement and get my soldering going again.
Death to Landfill! Repair is far superior!
181
10/03/2021 11:19:59 25 14
bbc
Repairs often cost as much in worker time as buying something new.
196
10/03/2021 11:21:52 2 0
bbc
Check out Landfill Mining.
Get your wellies on!

https://www.ft.com/content/0bf645dc-d8f1-11e7-9504-59efdb70e12f
201
10/03/2021 11:22:25 8 0
bbc
These days Councils (at least here in Oxford) charge you for going to the skip to look for odd useful parts (bicycle pedals etc) that others have discarded for landfill. Often the authorities are as interested in profiteering as the businesses they seek to regulate.
256
10/03/2021 11:22:37 8 0
bbc
We haven't disappeared, we've just run out of things we can fettle!
623
10/03/2021 14:59:21 4 0
bbc
"Fettlers of electronic things have disappeared is my only worry". Thankfully the Raspberry Pi saved the world from its decline into a "consumer electronics only" mentality. Add to that the cheapness of 3D printers and the hobby electronics/maker communities and thriving and growing.
648
10/03/2021 15:25:13 4 1
bbc
And fix the laws about council tips. Why am i unable to buy a bike, park of a bike, or any other item from the tip to affect a repair? I had to replace pedal on my son's bike... New item in plastic package that needed recycling, pedals that needed recycling while the council recycled a bike with exactly what i needed because it wasn't allowed back out of the tip truly stupid
660
10/03/2021 15:51:37 3 0
bbc
As an 'electronics fettler' approaching retirement age, I concur. The number of people capable of diagnosing faults to module, let alone component, level is in rapid decline. Alternatively we don't have to worry about pension pot performance. Just do a few repairs when we want to make a big purchase.
53
10/03/2021 10:54:02 6 7
bbc
Does that include the Brexit 2.0 'what can possibly go wrong' model we all bought last Christmas?
68
10/03/2021 10:56:26 2 2
bbc
Oven ready remember, what a joke!
56
VF
10/03/2021 10:54:38 35 9
bbc
God we’re a miserable country...

You could find a cure for cancer and 1/2 the population would give a 1000 reasons why they wouldn’t use it or why it wouldn’t work.
69
10/03/2021 10:56:35 25 7
bbc
We are a miserable bunch, you're right, but on the other hand, there's no point in creating new laws if they don't work as intended, and haven't been properly thought through.
225
10/03/2021 11:26:22 3 0
bbc
Fine for the DIY brigade, but the cost of labour is often what makes a replacement cheaper.
28
10/03/2021 10:44:10 4 9
bbc
These are old EU rules - some of the few good ideas retained by our populist govt.

However, make no mistake - Boris and co will seek to water down most of our consumer protections, post-Brexit.

If I get multiple down arrows for this, it will be because the truth hurts.
70
10/03/2021 10:56:57 2 3
bbc
Or you get the down arrows for turning good news into a political, pessimistic soapbox.

This will help people & the environment.
232
10/03/2021 11:16:24 0 0
bbc
Man makes political comments on a political forum. Shocker.

Other people of course NEVER use HYS as a political soapbox, right ?
21
10/03/2021 10:48:26 13 2
bbc
I've been repairing my hoovers, tumble dryers and washing machines for years. The parts are already available online for next day delivery.

Trouble is the public think these things (same for cars) cannot be repaired anymore by the public and that misconception gets repeated.
71
10/03/2021 10:57:02 7 2
bbc
Sadly a lot of these items are made to be hard to repair, and good luck getting hold of a service manual.

I watched an examination of an iPhone 12 recently. If you swap the identical parts from one to another it stops working. Deliberately not repairable.
171
10/03/2021 11:18:12 1 0
bbc
You can't see the difference between a hoover hose and micro electonics ? And since when did you need a service manual to screw a new handle on a pressure washer ?
261
10/03/2021 11:34:14 2 0
bbc
Indeed. I was repairing a friend's Microsoft Surface laptop recently, and the batteries were glued in place with some really sturdy glue.
Designed to be difficult, and even HAZARDOUS to repair. Disgusting.
And these companies then try to greenwash themselves as environmentally friendly!
614
10/03/2021 14:44:36 0 0
bbc
Agreed some things get harder or impossible to economically repair but I have found a lot of manuals on line. We need a repairability standard marked in the same way as efficiency standards
63
10/03/2021 10:55:23 59 26
bbc
Does this apply to a government that is malfunctioning
No because Boris is a spare part. Removed
191
10/03/2021 11:13:53 9 6
bbc
No because Boris is a spare PRAT.
63
10/03/2021 10:55:23 59 26
bbc
Does this apply to a government that is malfunctioning
73
10/03/2021 10:57:36 4 1
bbc
are Governments electrical :)
207
10/03/2021 11:23:00 7 4
bbc
Possibly - the performance of the "current" one has been shocking... ;)
233
10/03/2021 11:27:49 5 1
bbc
Electoral
74
10/03/2021 10:57:38 5 5
bbc
Surely the government needs to encourage electric car conversions rather than throwing a car away because its 10 years old.
93
10/03/2021 11:01:18 3 1
bbc
You write "electric car conversions" as though this were some simple process - removing an ICE and substituting an electric motor and some batteries. Nothing could be further from the truth. The amount of work involved in any imaginary "conversion" would be impossibly uneconomical.
75
10/03/2021 10:57:46 114 2
bbc
This needs to include electrical assemblies in cars.....

Years ago it was rust that took vehicles to the scrap yard, but now there are millions of otherwise sound cars going to scrapyards simply because of an ECU or other major electrical failure that costs more than the vehicle is worth to replace.

Think how much addressing that would benefit consumers and the planet.
122
10/03/2021 11:07:43 29 2
bbc
There are specialist companies which can repair many common faults in ECUs, instrument panels, etc. A main dealer will always offer the cure recommended by the manufacturer, ask an independent garage.
137
10/03/2021 11:10:50 10 0
bbc
Totally agree. Modern cars in general are so overly engineered. Cant just replace a lightbulb, now you need a whole new lamp because 1 LED has blown. Simple things like dipsticks replaced with expense sensors. Serviceable items located in engine bays in hard reach places for no reason, increasing the labour time and cost. Car designers dont think about ease of repair
167
10/03/2021 11:17:13 6 1
bbc
Wait until we have electric cars with expensive batteries...
220
10/03/2021 11:24:52 3 4
bbc
These things are widely available from recyclers to keep older cars running but people love an excuse to get a new 'prestige' car on a lease to impress the neighbours!
525
10/03/2021 13:29:28 3 0
bbc
lots of cars in London having to be scrapped because of ULEZ rules
539
10/03/2021 13:41:05 4 0
bbc
Absolutely agree - where visible engine warning lights can mean you fail your MOT when you can't source a particular electronic circuit board, then there is a timebomb of enforced obsolescence waiting to happen - I've had to resort to ebay for parts for my 2003 car that is a bit of a classic and I want to keep on the road
650
10/03/2021 15:30:33 4 1
bbc
Or in many cases the coil pack which fails producing horrendous symptoms and costs 20minutes and 30 quid to replace. Of course the EU are trying to force you to buy from the manufacturer and not an OEM or spare supplier which are much cheaper and at least as good ( often better) than the original
712
10/03/2021 18:45:53 2 0
bbc
Completely agree - the unnecessary manufacture of new cars is a significant causes of CO2 emissions
787
10/03/2021 21:02:28 0 0
bbc
I often wonder if the ECU etc is programmed to fail. Can't be difficult to program the ECU to do that a few years after manufacture. My Father had a Renault Scenic with a digital dash and they were notorious for failure and all at the same age!!........
885
11/03/2021 12:42:50 0 0
bbc
Our old ford had a computer issue and we sold it for scrap as the repair cost was more than value. However the young mechanic at the garage bought the car, repaired it himself (the labour was the main cost) and the car is still on the road. I see it often.
63
10/03/2021 10:55:23 59 26
bbc
Does this apply to a government that is malfunctioning
76
10/03/2021 10:58:04 7 3
bbc
already can be repaired, by voting. Trouble is, the first appointment available is in around 3 years!
41
10/03/2021 10:51:26 158 4
bbc
Does the legislation address the cost of spares? No point replacing a control board that costs £200 on a £250 washing machine....
77
10/03/2021 10:58:08 160 3
bbc
This is true. I dismantled an otherwise fully working Bosch washing machine to find the fault was the control board.
Cost for new control board, £260, cost for new washing machine £250.
127
10/03/2021 11:08:32 6 2
bbc
£260 for a control board? That's ridiculous! I replaced my £700 TV AV board for only £40!
267
10/03/2021 11:35:15 21 0
bbc
The saying in Industry is 1 penny of Production, £1 post production and £10 as a spare part.
291
10/03/2021 11:39:44 12 1
bbc
Providing spare parts is more than just the cost of the component. You have to either be prepared to continue to manufacture the parts, or warehouse enough spare stock for as long as you think people will need them. You may then be faced with the write-off costs for components that have not been needed by the end of the availability guarantee.

This adds to the cost of the spare part.
393
10/03/2021 12:16:20 1 0
bbc
So we need legislation against such price gouging on spare parts.
640
10/03/2021 15:19:12 0 0
bbc
Then the machine is unrepairable and Bosch directors and engineers should find themselves in jail and the company on the receiving end of forced replacement of all machines sharing that design
798
10/03/2021 21:21:46 0 0
bbc
Obviously the control board doesn't really cost £260 but nobody will sell you the board for its true cost. Everyone wants you to buy new. The concept of repair died out long ago. Manufacturers deliberately make things extremely difficult to repair.
869
Raj
11/03/2021 11:09:09 0 0
bbc
And all because you couldnot find the component you could have replaced...often just a capacitor or even a fuse!
883
11/03/2021 12:33:58 0 0
bbc
Cost for control board stripped out of scrap = £ 25?
The whole point is make things able to last longer, as we cannot throw them away as there is no "away"
32
10/03/2021 10:50:11 25 3
bbc
New toilet seats have off centre hinges to allow adjustment for just about every toilet in the world. No need to change the entire toilet at all.
78
Ian
10/03/2021 10:58:15 0 2
bbc
I know. Nothing worked on this model.
19
10/03/2021 10:47:49 66 289
bbc
So you want to still use Window 3.1 & drive a horse & cart.

Obsolescence happens, at what point does it become too difficult to support?
79
10/03/2021 10:58:26 119 5
bbc
You mistake obsolescence with 'planned' obsolescence.

Also, if you have a stand-alone device that uses Win 3.1, then in exactly the same way as a dishwasher operates on it's fixed hardware/firmware, that device will work perfectly well.

I still drive equipment at work on Win 3.1, no issues as it's a closed system.
38
10/03/2021 10:51:01 8 2
bbc
I hope this applies to taps too.
Used to be able to buy a cheap washer and fix it yourself.
Now you have to find the correct cartridge for your tap and that is not always easy.
Tried fixing my own dripping tap once and ended up paying £200 for a plumber as nothing was standard!!
80
10/03/2021 10:58:27 6 1
bbc
I agree. I had bathroom basin taps replaced, only a few years old, cold tap now dripping & have been told no washers on these new taps, they instead have "plates" & it now both taps will have to be completely replaced! Nice looking taps but a complete waste of money, time & effort. So beware when buying taps, check they have washers which are replaceable and not plates which are not.
81
10/03/2021 10:58:31 1 4
bbc
The problem with this is that people will assume that all repairs are possible without being qualified to complete the repairs.

Stand by for loads of people electrocuting themselves or family members and burning down or flooding their houses!
209
10/03/2021 11:23:04 0 0
bbc
Spot on! You're not allowed to change a light bulb in a bathroom or kitchen but you can play with 230v in the back of your washing machine!
Hire a Pole. He will do it cheaper than an over-charging Brit. Removed
Yeah, a Pole living in a shared 8 to a room with a rent of £50 a month, and take work from the Brit with kids and a mortgage.

You'll find few Poles supporting our pubs at £4/5 a pint. Street drinking suffices. Much cheaper.

Now go to Poland and ask them what they think of the Ukrainians undercutting the Polish workers, by having that lower overhead.
There is no love loss.
Removed
55
10/03/2021 10:54:37 124 9
bbc
The one that really annoys me is laptop batteries. You used to be able to switch them out if they died. Now they're built in and can't be replaced so every 4 of 5 years you need to buy a whole new laptop
83
10/03/2021 10:59:10 51 3
bbc
Try Googling a battery swap. I did my laptop - although a bit fiddly - for £20
184
10/03/2021 11:20:16 7 0
bbc
Laptops easy but phones are now sealed. They have to be heated up to soften the seal and then prised open and then re-glued. Also, for phones it can be very difficult to get hold of batteries. There are far to many battery sizes etc. Imagine if our other appliances didn't use A,AA,AAA,C,D etc but used 1,000 different battery types and all hard to get.
425
10/03/2021 12:29:41 1 0
bbc
not on a surface pro you can't.
645
10/03/2021 15:22:20 0 0
bbc
Works if it is the battery not the charging circuit on the mother board which is often the case particularly with make lenovo
646
10/03/2021 15:22:50 0 0
bbc
Works if it is the battery not the charging circuit on the mother board which is often the case particularly with shit make lenovo
864
11/03/2021 11:11:35 0 0
bbc
Some companies solder them in now.
84
VF
10/03/2021 10:59:21 5 3
bbc
Pass on the cost of scrapping and recycling to the manufacturers and see what happens.
96
10/03/2021 11:01:43 4 1
bbc
They pass it on to the consumer of course!
102
10/03/2021 11:02:52 1 1
bbc
I'll tell you what happens - the cost of a new appliance rises to cover it. You don't really believe manufacturers will ever do anything other than pass on these costs, surely?
197
10/03/2021 11:21:57 0 0
bbc
Already the case with cars - has been for years. Has to be paid for somehow though so the original price has to include an allowance for this.
85
10/03/2021 11:00:00 1 1
bbc
What about mobile phones? Gone are the days when you battery stopped being useful and all you needed was to nip to the shop to pick up a new battery instead of a new phone.
86
10/03/2021 11:00:04 4 1
bbc
If Sidney Stratton "The Man In The White Suit" had been given greater backing and not undermined by vested interests in the clothing and detergent industries, a full 70 years ago - we wouldn't be talking about washing machines at all now.
281
10/03/2021 11:37:27 1 0
bbc
Love the comment but I suspect 99.99% of people won't have a clue what you are on about. Great old film.
87
10/03/2021 11:00:18 5 1
bbc
Good! I have been hearing about this for a few years now, I am quite surprised they passed it but I wont complain. I am happy that it passed. If young people can be allowed to fix and repair items it will help encourage more people to go into engineering or spur on more inventors let alone save people money and resources.
We should also have the right to remove any royal titles from Megan. Well done Piers for speaking for the majority. Removed
88
10/03/2021 11:00:19 0 1
bbc
Sad little person. You are in the minority. Suck it up.
89
10/03/2021 11:00:58 66 4
bbc
This worldwide issue has been created by global corporates. They make throw away goods, as re-purchasing increases profits. Repairing is not as profitable.
A great recent example is Apple/Samsung, they use different screws and enclose their batteries so the general public can't make even simple repairs. In an age of climate change these firms should be forced into action or shut down.
302
10/03/2021 11:31:04 36 2
bbc
It's worse than just making repair difficult... the latest iPhones apparently deliberately stop working properly if a consumer replaces the battery. Not that surprising I suppose from a company that charges £699 for a set of wheels (sadly that is not a joke or an exaggeration)
504
10/03/2021 13:17:07 5 2
bbc
That's not strictly true. Many things are designed to be put together quickly in order to reduce production costs; many parts are fused or glued together as this saves time and money. Toasters are a good example. They are simply not designed to taken apart. Dualit being a notable exception.
Don't think the new law will be address this design issue.
865
11/03/2021 11:13:45 0 0
bbc
Latent defects have been a problem for the past decade too in this regard. Failing gpu flip chip for example.
64
10/03/2021 10:55:31 6 12
bbc
It’s hilarious how the BBC can’t bring itself to word an article so that it doesn’t sound like we should be grateful for everything the EU achieved and ashamed we left.

Give it up.

By the way, we were part of the EU, partly responsible for the standards created and the EU Standards Institute was based on the British Standards Institute anyway.
90
10/03/2021 11:01:07 1 1
bbc
This is thanks to the EU. Hilarious you don't see the connection - yes it was based on British standards - something we had a powerful voice in designing / implementing as part of the EU.

Now to sell to the EU, we have to meet their rules without having any say in them - Project Hate "success" in a nutshell
Can we get the Brexit deal fixed or just revoked, it's the biggest breakdown in history. Costing UK businesses way more than we used to pay the EU in customs paperwork, not to mention the livelihoods of shellfish exporters.

Still the Brexiteers knew what they were voting for.
Removed
108
10/03/2021 11:04:03 0 0
bbc
This is about repairing appliances, not moaning about something that is done and dusted because it doesn't suit you.
151
10/03/2021 11:06:59 0 0
bbc
That's been tried and failed
180
10/03/2021 11:19:51 0 0
bbc
It's not as though they weren't told! Most have gone into hiding now that reality is showing (albeit temporarily masked by Covid).
92
10/03/2021 10:54:29 2 1
bbc
Should apply to cars as well
And pritty much all goods .

I Brocken circuit board that takes 5mins to change with a screw driver .dose not justify a new machine .
115
10/03/2021 11:05:53 3 0
bbc
It has applied to cars for years. It is one of the "stupid EU rules" that "place a burden on business" that the UK promoted and voted in favour of before leaving because it wanted to be free of such things.
121
10/03/2021 11:07:25 0 0
bbc
My 2007 Mondeo has 193k miles on the clock and got through it's last MOT for £19 (+ MOT cost).

Some last, but most are built to fail and require replacement parts.
176
10/03/2021 11:18:38 0 0
bbc
Plenty of cars out there with 5 and 7 year warranties, some with unlimited mileage warranties for a period too. Cars are remarkable value all considered, as long as you're not blinded by a 'prestige' bran name alone.
74
10/03/2021 10:57:38 5 5
bbc
Surely the government needs to encourage electric car conversions rather than throwing a car away because its 10 years old.
93
10/03/2021 11:01:18 3 1
bbc
You write "electric car conversions" as though this were some simple process - removing an ICE and substituting an electric motor and some batteries. Nothing could be further from the truth. The amount of work involved in any imaginary "conversion" would be impossibly uneconomical.
128
10/03/2021 11:08:41 0 0
bbc
Watch Vintage Voltage - typical budget for conversion is £40,000, excluding the donor vehicle.
57
10/03/2021 10:54:40 1 1
bbc
If a toilet seat needed replacing within three years, I would not trust the brand to even bother replacing it...

or was the seat subject to heavy industrial usage?
94
Ian
10/03/2021 11:01:38 1 1
bbc
Not really - normal loadage, normal splatter range, standard paper-to-human-product ratio, normal leakage zone
37
10/03/2021 10:50:51 7 1
bbc
As a former SERVIS UK employee, I can tell you the drive for repairable machines will be short lived. There is no longer the expertise, Infrastructure or support to manage a nationwide fleet of repair agents across all brands. What you will get is the current crop of 'badged' service agents (British G@s or similar) fixing the simple things you can do yourself, or just condemning the appliance.
95
10/03/2021 11:01:41 1 1
bbc
My Servis washer is getting near the end of its life now. Just started leaking after 26 years of regular use. No built-in obsolescence there!
340
10/03/2021 11:55:19 0 0
bbc
25 years ago they did build them to last and be repaired - you try getting a BOSCH or BEKO machine fixed now. Currys will just send you a new one.
84
VF
10/03/2021 10:59:21 5 3
bbc
Pass on the cost of scrapping and recycling to the manufacturers and see what happens.
96
10/03/2021 11:01:43 4 1
bbc
They pass it on to the consumer of course!
58
10/03/2021 10:54:40 40 2
bbc
Would be great to see this work but suspect the manufacturers and retailers will try to work round it.

It's in their interest to keep repair costs high. Not only will this maintain new product sales, but it also helps sell highly lucrative extended warranty schemes. Retailers allegedly make more money on these schemes than they do on the product itself.
97
10/03/2021 11:01:44 2 1
bbc
I've found repair costs for most items I have to be reasonable so far, when dealing with Western companies, my hoover needs a new wheel motor £50 it should be, but no stock anywhere....
98
10/03/2021 11:01:53 1 1
bbc
Good idea but the cost of parts v cost of the whole item will be key. Perhaps longer warranties should be mandated to help the policy work? I think electric cars will go the same way, less to go wrong and batteries can be exchanged
99
10/03/2021 11:02:00 4 2
bbc
A few years ago a motorbike magazine did a comparison of building a 600cc sportsbike (I'll withold the maker but all will be similar) from parts vs buying one off the shelf.

£26,000 v £7,000
117
10/03/2021 11:06:11 0 0
bbc
A couple of decades ago someone did the same with a Morris Minor. One built from spare parts cost £8,000 when a "real" one was about a quarter of the price.
160
10/03/2021 11:14:39 0 0
bbc
yes, i remember that one. a CBR if i remember correctly. bit of an eye-opener, to say the least
;o)
100
10/03/2021 11:02:11 2 1
bbc
Domestic appliances are almost made to fail, with some enjoying absolute junk status time this practise ended.