'Right and just' for students to get Covid refunds
05/03/2021 | news | education | 84
University students should be given compensation for disrupted studies, says Sir Anthony Seldon.
1
05/03/2021 11:15:47 6 3
bbc
If tuition fees and loans were abolished, this wouldn`t be an issue.
2
05/03/2021 11:33:59 8 3
bbc
Universities have failed to recognize that once we moved to a tuition fee system. Students were no longer a "commodity" but became "stakeholders" in their own education. This means universities need to provide perceived "value for money" for stakeholders, patently, they do not do this currently! Wake up! Universities!
21
05/03/2021 12:45:08 9 3
bbc
Actually this was a cynical government decision to do this. Universities should be places of learning not somewhere that has to jump through hoops to "appeal" to students just to get enough money to carry on their work. Students feel like they are consumers, but ultimately they're not. They come to uni to work for a degree, not to buy one.
22
05/03/2021 12:50:59 3 1
bbc
Students don't pay for a degree. That is not what their money is for. They work for a degree. They pay to ensure there are staff there to teach them, libraries and software for them to access etc. If a student fails a degree course because they didn't do any work does not mean that course is bad value, it means the student is lazy. They are actually not consumers they just think they are.
3
05/03/2021 11:39:05 3 6
bbc
Universities have increased costs due to Covid, so students should be asked to pay more. That is what businesses do.
18
05/03/2021 12:41:25 4 2
bbc
So if you signed a contract to receive a service, say you ordered a new car. After you agreed a price, you would happily hand over more money if the manufacturer said his costs had then increased? I think not.
20
05/03/2021 12:42:53 2 1
bbc
This is true. THey still have all the maintenance and staffing costs plus the need to fund more technology for students and staff to continue studying with no detriment. I don't think the students should pay more, but it is fair to point out that unis have not saved any money in the pandemic. All teaching is online.
4
05/03/2021 11:40:07 8 3
bbc
Given that students are not getting what they are paying for even though it is via a loan system it is right and morally proper for fee refunds and in the case of 1st years accommodation refunds to. No one can honestly say they are getting the same quality of tuition on line and 30% of fees are to maintain campus facilities that aren't being used. A £6K reduction off the loan debt is about right.
29
05/03/2021 13:12:30 1 3
bbc
So how will those renting accommodation be compensated, they've done nothing wrong (well nothing new wrong) either.
5
05/03/2021 11:33:50 2 13
bbc
What would have been right and just is that universities should have continued unchanged throughout this Chicken Little panic.

The risk posed to most students is NEGLIGIBLE, and that posed to university staff is REALLY TINY.

These young people have had their education, future, and mental health sacrificed to just SLIGHTLY reduce the risk to the very old. This is selfish, cowardly and immoral!
17
05/03/2021 12:41:15 4 2
bbc
Really? I'm not sacrificing my imuno compromised colleagues or their relatives so students can come back to "live the student life" i.e. get drunk and spread the disease.
6
05/03/2021 11:43:46 9 4
bbc
Of course the DfE are washing their hands of it and say its down to Unis. However the Student Loan Company is government financed, so they absolutely can dictate a £5K or £6K reduction on the outstanding debt. Especially when in some cases these £40K plus debts aren't paid off and written off after 30 years. Might as well show some goodwill now and write off £5k or £6K, it's a smallish proportion.
7
05/03/2021 11:41:17 5 11
bbc
Waiting for the Boomers (who got their higher education for FREE) to slam the young again. The ladder was pulled up by them long ago
13
05/03/2021 12:14:06 6 4
bbc
You are obviously still green around the ears, easily led by the media and those with an agenda to provide the young with a grievance to distract them from their exploitation by commerce.
27
05/03/2021 13:08:31 3 2
bbc
Some boomers maybe. Sure you'd happily trade your life experience with the successful ones, but would you trade with those who had an adverse experience? Of course not.
42
05/03/2021 14:40:18 5 1
bbc
A much lower percentage of the boomer generation went to university. Many went straight from school to work or apprenticeship.
8
05/03/2021 11:51:06 7 2
bbc
Perhaps the completely discredited 'office for students' should step in & actually DO something for students instead of bleat nonsense equating quality of education being demonstrated only by the size of a graduate's pay packet.
9
Bob
05/03/2021 11:52:59 1 11
bbc
If they want half-off their tuition fee then I presume they'll be happy with half off their final grading?

You can't claim to have no learnt properly whilst also demanding maintained grading levels.
16
05/03/2021 12:33:53 1 3
bbc
What a silly comment. Are you saying the students could not possibly study harder to make up for the lack of teaching time?
10
05/03/2021 11:54:16 12 3
bbc
Teaching Computer Science at a university, I've noticed a marked increase in quality of student work. Talking to students, they've cited the 'lack of distraction' enabling them to concentrate on their studies, notably final year students focussing on their project work.
11
05/03/2021 12:05:29 18 5
bbc
I have a M.Sc. in Computer Science and was a top flight software developer for over 20 years, so I know something about this area.

In large measure this field attracts introverts who are much more happy sitting in front of a screen than interacting with people. So it's no surprise they are thriving. But the VAST MAJORITY of students are not like this!
12
05/03/2021 12:12:01 5 2
bbc
What a pity those doing a laboratory based degree course have seen their hands on development grind to a complete halt.
10
05/03/2021 11:54:16 12 3
bbc
Teaching Computer Science at a university, I've noticed a marked increase in quality of student work. Talking to students, they've cited the 'lack of distraction' enabling them to concentrate on their studies, notably final year students focussing on their project work.
11
05/03/2021 12:05:29 18 5
bbc
I have a M.Sc. in Computer Science and was a top flight software developer for over 20 years, so I know something about this area.

In large measure this field attracts introverts who are much more happy sitting in front of a screen than interacting with people. So it's no surprise they are thriving. But the VAST MAJORITY of students are not like this!
37
05/03/2021 13:54:55 4 3
bbc
Good, they are the future of work more generally. With the drive to be able to work from home. Perhaps time overdue that the needy of pointless socialising were the 'outcasts'. Work and socialising should be separate, do the latter if it is your idea of fun in your own time. Far too many UK workplaces are wanted to be in just to sit about chatting about the latest Strictly come dancing bake off!
10
05/03/2021 11:54:16 12 3
bbc
Teaching Computer Science at a university, I've noticed a marked increase in quality of student work. Talking to students, they've cited the 'lack of distraction' enabling them to concentrate on their studies, notably final year students focussing on their project work.
12
05/03/2021 12:12:01 5 2
bbc
What a pity those doing a laboratory based degree course have seen their hands on development grind to a complete halt.
15
05/03/2021 12:26:30 4 1
bbc
Dude, I know where you're coming from. My B.Sc. was Chemistry and Physics. If memory serves me right I spent almost every afternoon in my first two years in the lab. It would have been the same in my third year if I hadn't focused on the theoretical topics.
7
05/03/2021 11:41:17 5 11
bbc
Waiting for the Boomers (who got their higher education for FREE) to slam the young again. The ladder was pulled up by them long ago
13
05/03/2021 12:14:06 6 4
bbc
You are obviously still green around the ears, easily led by the media and those with an agenda to provide the young with a grievance to distract them from their exploitation by commerce.
14
05/03/2021 12:19:02 15 5
bbc
These so called "universities" have shamelessly exploited the demand for vanity degrees, in art history, social sciences, surboard design, etc. making a vast profit from so called education. Yes, it is true that "Baby Boomers" such as myself benefitted from free education, but entry was tougher and the standards & subects sensible.

These "institutions" should refund their students fairly.
34
05/03/2021 13:46:44 4 10
bbc
Art history is not a vanity subject. it teaches research skills, writing, how to debate and present alongside social history. I studied mine in the evenings, left with no debt due to working and now make 50% more than my partner who is an applied mathematician with 3 degrees and a PhD all in applied maths. A so called hard degree would never have suited me as a creative person, diversity is key.
12
05/03/2021 12:12:01 5 2
bbc
What a pity those doing a laboratory based degree course have seen their hands on development grind to a complete halt.
15
05/03/2021 12:26:30 4 1
bbc
Dude, I know where you're coming from. My B.Sc. was Chemistry and Physics. If memory serves me right I spent almost every afternoon in my first two years in the lab. It would have been the same in my third year if I hadn't focused on the theoretical topics.
9
Bob
05/03/2021 11:52:59 1 11
bbc
If they want half-off their tuition fee then I presume they'll be happy with half off their final grading?

You can't claim to have no learnt properly whilst also demanding maintained grading levels.
16
05/03/2021 12:33:53 1 3
bbc
What a silly comment. Are you saying the students could not possibly study harder to make up for the lack of teaching time?
26
05/03/2021 13:05:12 2 3
bbc
Could they not also work harder to pay off the extra cost? After all nobody voted for Covid, yet we've all had to cope and pay for it one way or another.
5
05/03/2021 11:33:50 2 13
bbc
What would have been right and just is that universities should have continued unchanged throughout this Chicken Little panic.

The risk posed to most students is NEGLIGIBLE, and that posed to university staff is REALLY TINY.

These young people have had their education, future, and mental health sacrificed to just SLIGHTLY reduce the risk to the very old. This is selfish, cowardly and immoral!
17
05/03/2021 12:41:15 4 2
bbc
Really? I'm not sacrificing my imuno compromised colleagues or their relatives so students can come back to "live the student life" i.e. get drunk and spread the disease.
3
05/03/2021 11:39:05 3 6
bbc
Universities have increased costs due to Covid, so students should be asked to pay more. That is what businesses do.
18
05/03/2021 12:41:25 4 2
bbc
So if you signed a contract to receive a service, say you ordered a new car. After you agreed a price, you would happily hand over more money if the manufacturer said his costs had then increased? I think not.
19
05/03/2021 12:42:28 2 5
bbc
It is time to rethink higher education in the UK. It is not just the fees for questionable degrees. There is the under-representation of some ethnic minorities and of boys.

As for children who have been through the 'care' system, this article from Adoption UK says it better than I can:

https://www.adoptionuk.org/news/college-drop-out-rates-for-adopted-young-people-alarming-warns-charity
.
40
05/03/2021 14:32:42 0 3
bbc
To those who voted down my comment: Can you please tell us what it is you disagree with? Is it what I said about boys?

"The higher education participation level for young women has now reached 56.6%, compared to only 44.1% for young men."

See:

https://www.hepi.ac.uk/2020/03/07/mind-the-gap-gender-differences-in-higher-education/
3
05/03/2021 11:39:05 3 6
bbc
Universities have increased costs due to Covid, so students should be asked to pay more. That is what businesses do.
20
05/03/2021 12:42:53 2 1
bbc
This is true. THey still have all the maintenance and staffing costs plus the need to fund more technology for students and staff to continue studying with no detriment. I don't think the students should pay more, but it is fair to point out that unis have not saved any money in the pandemic. All teaching is online.
2
05/03/2021 11:33:59 8 3
bbc
Universities have failed to recognize that once we moved to a tuition fee system. Students were no longer a "commodity" but became "stakeholders" in their own education. This means universities need to provide perceived "value for money" for stakeholders, patently, they do not do this currently! Wake up! Universities!
21
05/03/2021 12:45:08 9 3
bbc
Actually this was a cynical government decision to do this. Universities should be places of learning not somewhere that has to jump through hoops to "appeal" to students just to get enough money to carry on their work. Students feel like they are consumers, but ultimately they're not. They come to uni to work for a degree, not to buy one.
23
05/03/2021 12:53:03 4 2
bbc
The fees were introduced by Labour and then supported, indeed increased by the Tories, with the LibDems pledged against it, that is until they got the whiff of power in their nostrils?

It was a bad idea right from the start. As was the Blair 50% target.
2
05/03/2021 11:33:59 8 3
bbc
Universities have failed to recognize that once we moved to a tuition fee system. Students were no longer a "commodity" but became "stakeholders" in their own education. This means universities need to provide perceived "value for money" for stakeholders, patently, they do not do this currently! Wake up! Universities!
22
05/03/2021 12:50:59 3 1
bbc
Students don't pay for a degree. That is not what their money is for. They work for a degree. They pay to ensure there are staff there to teach them, libraries and software for them to access etc. If a student fails a degree course because they didn't do any work does not mean that course is bad value, it means the student is lazy. They are actually not consumers they just think they are.
21
05/03/2021 12:45:08 9 3
bbc
Actually this was a cynical government decision to do this. Universities should be places of learning not somewhere that has to jump through hoops to "appeal" to students just to get enough money to carry on their work. Students feel like they are consumers, but ultimately they're not. They come to uni to work for a degree, not to buy one.
23
05/03/2021 12:53:03 4 2
bbc
The fees were introduced by Labour and then supported, indeed increased by the Tories, with the LibDems pledged against it, that is until they got the whiff of power in their nostrils?

It was a bad idea right from the start. As was the Blair 50% target.
24
05/03/2021 13:01:17 12 8
bbc
How many times is the BBC going to use this picture of the blonde women sat amongst ethnic guys just because it suits its woke agenda. The UK is 90% white as the BBC well knows so this picture and all its ilk are highly disproportionate.
Where is the report of the women teacher who was found guilty today of abusing a minor? Again it doesn't fit the woke agenda.
31
05/03/2021 13:41:06 4 9
bbc
Two of those people are white and just because a woman (note the correct spelling with an A) has been found guilty of a crime you think that means 50% of the population should be removed from all depictions of society!? You also clearly haven't been to university for many decades, if ever as there are a huge number of international students in addition to our own ethnic minorities.
39
05/03/2021 14:32:14 0 5
bbc
Nah!
60
05/03/2021 18:18:19 1 4
bbc
From the number of people that have upvoted your drivel, it seems the gam gam snowflake brigade are out in force.
61
05/03/2021 18:19:50 0 3
bbc
And let’s face it, the U.K. may be 90% white but many white working class don’t value education, so I bet the picture is pretty re
Removed
25
05/03/2021 13:02:27 7 5
bbc
So should the compensation come from the universities? If it should be from government, it means taxpayers (including pensioners), the majority of whom don't have degrees, pay for the compensation for those who wish to benefit from a degree & if successful may have a lifetime of working on higher pay to make up for it or if they don't won't have to pay off their loan anyway.
59
05/03/2021 18:16:33 5 3
bbc
So what? We pay your pension ms and your healthcare, why shouldn’t you contribute to others?
16
05/03/2021 12:33:53 1 3
bbc
What a silly comment. Are you saying the students could not possibly study harder to make up for the lack of teaching time?
26
05/03/2021 13:05:12 2 3
bbc
Could they not also work harder to pay off the extra cost? After all nobody voted for Covid, yet we've all had to cope and pay for it one way or another.
38
05/03/2021 14:01:24 1 3
bbc
But why should they? It is not them providing the service.
7
05/03/2021 11:41:17 5 11
bbc
Waiting for the Boomers (who got their higher education for FREE) to slam the young again. The ladder was pulled up by them long ago
27
05/03/2021 13:08:31 3 2
bbc
Some boomers maybe. Sure you'd happily trade your life experience with the successful ones, but would you trade with those who had an adverse experience? Of course not.
28
05/03/2021 13:09:10 3 10
bbc
Lots of well rounded individuals commenting on what they think they know as usual I see.

The danger is if Universities have to pay back money without support, staff will get cut and the students will have a worse experience. Universities have many wider benefits to society and local economies, the loss of which would be devastating to some town and cities.
4
05/03/2021 11:40:07 8 3
bbc
Given that students are not getting what they are paying for even though it is via a loan system it is right and morally proper for fee refunds and in the case of 1st years accommodation refunds to. No one can honestly say they are getting the same quality of tuition on line and 30% of fees are to maintain campus facilities that aren't being used. A £6K reduction off the loan debt is about right.
29
05/03/2021 13:12:30 1 3
bbc
So how will those renting accommodation be compensated, they've done nothing wrong (well nothing new wrong) either.
30
05/03/2021 13:24:23 5 10
bbc
Where is all this extra money going to come from, if they had a mortgage or renting a family home they still would have to pay like the rest of society. A good proportion of students are only part-time and have there family homes to fall back on, making refunds today will have an impact on universities quality of education in the future. This should not be a burden for the tax payer
74
06/03/2021 10:03:35 0 1
bbc
hancocks loose change should suffice.
24
05/03/2021 13:01:17 12 8
bbc
How many times is the BBC going to use this picture of the blonde women sat amongst ethnic guys just because it suits its woke agenda. The UK is 90% white as the BBC well knows so this picture and all its ilk are highly disproportionate.
Where is the report of the women teacher who was found guilty today of abusing a minor? Again it doesn't fit the woke agenda.
31
05/03/2021 13:41:06 4 9
bbc
Two of those people are white and just because a woman (note the correct spelling with an A) has been found guilty of a crime you think that means 50% of the population should be removed from all depictions of society!? You also clearly haven't been to university for many decades, if ever as there are a huge number of international students in addition to our own ethnic minorities.
32
05/03/2021 13:43:42 11 7
bbc
Higher education is just a rip off, with students paying for useless degrees that the taxpayer will end up writing off.
41
05/03/2021 14:35:02 8 3
bbc
Higher education is a very mixed bag. There are some good universities doing worthwhile degrees that set some students up for good careers.
On the other hand there are some distinctly third rate establishments offering poor quality syllabuses and teaching in dubious subjects. Their only purpose to supply vice chancellors life of luxury.
57
05/03/2021 18:14:22 0 4
bbc
As opposed to the taxpayer funding your triple locked pension?
33
05/03/2021 13:46:02 7 6
bbc
Totally Mr Seldon. You were at the helm of some of the UKs most privileged educational establishments where money was of no consequence but you still argue this point exceptionally well. Government should compensate students affected by exceptional circumstances without delay.

And let this start the change of the way we treat our young people in the UK.
14
05/03/2021 12:19:02 15 5
bbc
These so called "universities" have shamelessly exploited the demand for vanity degrees, in art history, social sciences, surboard design, etc. making a vast profit from so called education. Yes, it is true that "Baby Boomers" such as myself benefitted from free education, but entry was tougher and the standards & subects sensible.

These "institutions" should refund their students fairly.
34
05/03/2021 13:46:44 4 10
bbc
Art history is not a vanity subject. it teaches research skills, writing, how to debate and present alongside social history. I studied mine in the evenings, left with no debt due to working and now make 50% more than my partner who is an applied mathematician with 3 degrees and a PhD all in applied maths. A so called hard degree would never have suited me as a creative person, diversity is key.
35
05/03/2021 13:48:50 8 5
bbc
You got remote delivery then no refund is remotely needed. If you are smart enough to be at university you will save a fortune anyway by remaining at home to do your degree.

The accommodation scam can end. Make this a permanent change in behaviours and be much better off.
36
05/03/2021 13:51:00 3 6
bbc
The hope to save us from the evil of the pandemic is with the UK's world class universities and NHS. So far they are doing an excellent job. We all in owe and due recognition should be grante.
80
06/03/2021 13:23:10 0 0
bbc
Yes the UKs world class Universities I agree with. But not with some of the newer second rate ones.
11
05/03/2021 12:05:29 18 5
bbc
I have a M.Sc. in Computer Science and was a top flight software developer for over 20 years, so I know something about this area.

In large measure this field attracts introverts who are much more happy sitting in front of a screen than interacting with people. So it's no surprise they are thriving. But the VAST MAJORITY of students are not like this!
37
05/03/2021 13:54:55 4 3
bbc
Good, they are the future of work more generally. With the drive to be able to work from home. Perhaps time overdue that the needy of pointless socialising were the 'outcasts'. Work and socialising should be separate, do the latter if it is your idea of fun in your own time. Far too many UK workplaces are wanted to be in just to sit about chatting about the latest Strictly come dancing bake off!
77
06/03/2021 10:44:58 0 1
bbc
You may well be right, George. I also teach degree apprentices, who work in software development alongside their studies, and they say they hate lockdown but when you talk to them about why, it's the socialising & chit-chat that they miss. Their academic work doesn't show the same improvement as full-time students.
26
05/03/2021 13:05:12 2 3
bbc
Could they not also work harder to pay off the extra cost? After all nobody voted for Covid, yet we've all had to cope and pay for it one way or another.
38
05/03/2021 14:01:24 1 3
bbc
But why should they? It is not them providing the service.
45
05/03/2021 14:44:57 1 2
bbc
So I shouldn't have to pay anything for it through tax, I didn't provide the service either, wasn't even a party to it.
24
05/03/2021 13:01:17 12 8
bbc
How many times is the BBC going to use this picture of the blonde women sat amongst ethnic guys just because it suits its woke agenda. The UK is 90% white as the BBC well knows so this picture and all its ilk are highly disproportionate.
Where is the report of the women teacher who was found guilty today of abusing a minor? Again it doesn't fit the woke agenda.
39
05/03/2021 14:32:14 0 5
bbc
Nah!
19
05/03/2021 12:42:28 2 5
bbc
It is time to rethink higher education in the UK. It is not just the fees for questionable degrees. There is the under-representation of some ethnic minorities and of boys.

As for children who have been through the 'care' system, this article from Adoption UK says it better than I can:

https://www.adoptionuk.org/news/college-drop-out-rates-for-adopted-young-people-alarming-warns-charity
.
40
05/03/2021 14:32:42 0 3
bbc
To those who voted down my comment: Can you please tell us what it is you disagree with? Is it what I said about boys?

"The higher education participation level for young women has now reached 56.6%, compared to only 44.1% for young men."

See:

https://www.hepi.ac.uk/2020/03/07/mind-the-gap-gender-differences-in-higher-education/
49
05/03/2021 15:36:40 0 2
bbc
For an insight into how the under-representation of men in social work can affect adoptive parents please see this article on the Male Psychology Network site:

https://malepsychology.org.uk/2018/08/02/issues-adoptive-parents-might-face/
.
32
05/03/2021 13:43:42 11 7
bbc
Higher education is just a rip off, with students paying for useless degrees that the taxpayer will end up writing off.
41
05/03/2021 14:35:02 8 3
bbc
Higher education is a very mixed bag. There are some good universities doing worthwhile degrees that set some students up for good careers.
On the other hand there are some distinctly third rate establishments offering poor quality syllabuses and teaching in dubious subjects. Their only purpose to supply vice chancellors life of luxury.
7
05/03/2021 11:41:17 5 11
bbc
Waiting for the Boomers (who got their higher education for FREE) to slam the young again. The ladder was pulled up by them long ago
42
05/03/2021 14:40:18 5 1
bbc
A much lower percentage of the boomer generation went to university. Many went straight from school to work or apprenticeship.
43
05/03/2021 14:42:55 10 2
bbc
Higher education is a very mixed bag. There are some good universities doing worthwhile degrees that set some students up for good careers.
On the other hand there are some distinctly third rate establishments offering poor quality syllabuses and teaching in dubious subjects. Their only purpose to supply vice chancellors life of luxury.
46
05/03/2021 14:54:09 6 3
bbc
There are some good universities doing worthless degrees. For example: Literae Humaniores.
82
06/03/2021 14:44:58 1 0
bbc
They are profit making organisations who view students as customers. Some measure value of a course by (number of bums on seats - equipment needed) divided by teaching space required.
So courses like media studies are excellent value for them. Popular because low grades required. No equipment needed. Cram the customers into lecture halls.
You only have to look at their attitude to refunds...
44
05/03/2021 14:15:52 1 5
bbc
All International Student should get 25% tuition fees back.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-56285701
38
05/03/2021 14:01:24 1 3
bbc
But why should they? It is not them providing the service.
45
05/03/2021 14:44:57 1 2
bbc
So I shouldn't have to pay anything for it through tax, I didn't provide the service either, wasn't even a party to it.
43
05/03/2021 14:42:55 10 2
bbc
Higher education is a very mixed bag. There are some good universities doing worthwhile degrees that set some students up for good careers.
On the other hand there are some distinctly third rate establishments offering poor quality syllabuses and teaching in dubious subjects. Their only purpose to supply vice chancellors life of luxury.
46
05/03/2021 14:54:09 6 3
bbc
There are some good universities doing worthless degrees. For example: Literae Humaniores.
56
05/03/2021 18:13:21 1 5
bbc
Drivel. My friend that used to do the scheduling of tv programmes at a national broadcaster did classics at university. Clearly not worthless.
47
DMT
05/03/2021 15:07:28 13 3
bbc
Students have had a terrible deal. My son has two one hour seminars per week, term time only, that is his teaching allocation at a cost of £9,250 this year. When I taught in HE contact was significantly higher. No access to the library because he is at home, rent being paid on a house he can’t live in and now although school and college students can return, Uni students can’t. Unfair!
48
05/03/2021 15:26:17 4 4
bbc
So universities received the money in the first place, choose to pay their VC's eye-watering salaries (the average in 2016/7 was £290k), maintain defined benefit pension schemes when most other organisations run money purchase, but the taxpayer should pick up the cost of reimbursing students ?

Oh well, put like that, only too happy to cough up.
55
05/03/2021 18:10:41 3 8
bbc
Their salaries aren’t that eye watering when you consider other postgraduate level careers with that level of respo.
40
05/03/2021 14:32:42 0 3
bbc
To those who voted down my comment: Can you please tell us what it is you disagree with? Is it what I said about boys?

"The higher education participation level for young women has now reached 56.6%, compared to only 44.1% for young men."

See:

https://www.hepi.ac.uk/2020/03/07/mind-the-gap-gender-differences-in-higher-education/
49
05/03/2021 15:36:40 0 2
bbc
For an insight into how the under-representation of men in social work can affect adoptive parents please see this article on the Male Psychology Network site:

https://malepsychology.org.uk/2018/08/02/issues-adoptive-parents-might-face/
.
52
05/03/2021 17:40:42 0 2
bbc
I am still wondering why anyone has voted down my comments. What do you not agree with?

Don't be shy! Please tell us!
50
05/03/2021 16:02:31 11 7
bbc
But not from the public purse. The greedy Universities must pay up. If it means they fail to survive so be it. Too many low grade "Universities".
54
05/03/2021 18:09:20 4 11
bbc
I’m guessing that you are a “university of life” graduate with no idea what you are talking about?
51
05/03/2021 16:26:38 4 4
bbc
You employ a builder, and pay him a substantial amount up front. Sadly, he only does part of the work. He agrees that it is right and just that you get a refund proportionate to the incomplete work, but, unfortunately, he employs his partner at a fairly high salary, and that money's gone, so he can't pay you back. He suggests that you bear some yourself, and pop round to Jones to ask for the rest.
49
05/03/2021 15:36:40 0 2
bbc
For an insight into how the under-representation of men in social work can affect adoptive parents please see this article on the Male Psychology Network site:

https://malepsychology.org.uk/2018/08/02/issues-adoptive-parents-might-face/
.
52
05/03/2021 17:40:42 0 2
bbc
I am still wondering why anyone has voted down my comments. What do you not agree with?

Don't be shy! Please tell us!
53
05/03/2021 17:36:43 2 4
bbc
If they hammer the universities too hard they won;t have a university to go back to!
50
05/03/2021 16:02:31 11 7
bbc
But not from the public purse. The greedy Universities must pay up. If it means they fail to survive so be it. Too many low grade "Universities".
54
05/03/2021 18:09:20 4 11
bbc
I’m guessing that you are a “university of life” graduate with no idea what you are talking about?
64
05/03/2021 21:43:05 2 1
bbc
Wrong.
48
05/03/2021 15:26:17 4 4
bbc
So universities received the money in the first place, choose to pay their VC's eye-watering salaries (the average in 2016/7 was £290k), maintain defined benefit pension schemes when most other organisations run money purchase, but the taxpayer should pick up the cost of reimbursing students ?

Oh well, put like that, only too happy to cough up.
55
05/03/2021 18:10:41 3 8
bbc
Their salaries aren’t that eye watering when you consider other postgraduate level careers with that level of respo.
63
05/03/2021 21:27:40 4 1
bbc
I can only sit in awe of the money that you are making if you don't find £290k - yes, over a grand every working day - eye watering. They are not required to make a profit, they churn out people with varying bits of paper every 3-4 years and they retire with very, very fat pensions.
46
05/03/2021 14:54:09 6 3
bbc
There are some good universities doing worthless degrees. For example: Literae Humaniores.
56
05/03/2021 18:13:21 1 5
bbc
Drivel. My friend that used to do the scheduling of tv programmes at a national broadcaster did classics at university. Clearly not worthless.
79
06/03/2021 13:22:01 0 0
bbc
Judging by the rubbish on TV you have just contradicted yourself.
32
05/03/2021 13:43:42 11 7
bbc
Higher education is just a rip off, with students paying for useless degrees that the taxpayer will end up writing off.
57
05/03/2021 18:14:22 0 4
bbc
As opposed to the taxpayer funding your triple locked pension?
28
05/03/2021 13:09:10 3 10
bbc
Lots of well rounded individuals commenting on what they think they know as usual I see.

The danger is if Universities have to pay back money without support, staff will get cut and the students will have a worse experience. Universities have many wider benefits to society and local economies, the loss of which would be devastating to some town and cities.
25
05/03/2021 13:02:27 7 5
bbc
So should the compensation come from the universities? If it should be from government, it means taxpayers (including pensioners), the majority of whom don't have degrees, pay for the compensation for those who wish to benefit from a degree & if successful may have a lifetime of working on higher pay to make up for it or if they don't won't have to pay off their loan anyway.
59
05/03/2021 18:16:33 5 3
bbc
So what? We pay your pension ms and your healthcare, why shouldn’t you contribute to others?
24
05/03/2021 13:01:17 12 8
bbc
How many times is the BBC going to use this picture of the blonde women sat amongst ethnic guys just because it suits its woke agenda. The UK is 90% white as the BBC well knows so this picture and all its ilk are highly disproportionate.
Where is the report of the women teacher who was found guilty today of abusing a minor? Again it doesn't fit the woke agenda.
60
05/03/2021 18:18:19 1 4
bbc
From the number of people that have upvoted your drivel, it seems the gam gam snowflake brigade are out in force.
24
05/03/2021 13:01:17 12 8
bbc
How many times is the BBC going to use this picture of the blonde women sat amongst ethnic guys just because it suits its woke agenda. The UK is 90% white as the BBC well knows so this picture and all its ilk are highly disproportionate.
Where is the report of the women teacher who was found guilty today of abusing a minor? Again it doesn't fit the woke agenda.
61
05/03/2021 18:19:50 0 3
bbc
And let’s face it, the U.K. may be 90% white but many white working class don’t value education, so I bet the picture is pretty re
24
05/03/2021 13:01:17 12 8
bbc
How many times is the BBC going to use this picture of the blonde women sat amongst ethnic guys just because it suits its woke agenda. The UK is 90% white as the BBC well knows so this picture and all its ilk are highly disproportionate.
Where is the report of the women teacher who was found guilty today of abusing a minor? Again it doesn't fit the woke agenda.
55
05/03/2021 18:10:41 3 8
bbc
Their salaries aren’t that eye watering when you consider other postgraduate level careers with that level of respo.
63
05/03/2021 21:27:40 4 1
bbc
I can only sit in awe of the money that you are making if you don't find £290k - yes, over a grand every working day - eye watering. They are not required to make a profit, they churn out people with varying bits of paper every 3-4 years and they retire with very, very fat pensions.
70
06/03/2021 08:15:28 0 1
bbc
I went to a Russell Group university and whilst I don't earn that sort of money, many of the people that I studied with do.
54
05/03/2021 18:09:20 4 11
bbc
I’m guessing that you are a “university of life” graduate with no idea what you are talking about?
64
05/03/2021 21:43:05 2 1
bbc
Wrong.
69
06/03/2021 08:14:09 0 2
bbc
You can't use a capital letter so...
65
05/03/2021 22:18:21 3 5
bbc
BonkersBrextremists considers that Uni VC's etc don't earn excessive salaries. Uni Westminster (my alma mater). This is not one of the great unis - it was a poly a while back - yet, in the 2019 accts, 56% of income went in salaries. 11 people were paid between £110k - £250k, excl exps and pensions. They made £40m surplus, & have £46m in investments - but the taxpayer should refund their students ?
66
05/03/2021 22:30:39 1 2
bbc
Sorry, forgot to mention the £65m current asset investments on their balance sheet.
71
06/03/2021 08:15:58 0 2
bbc
If you consider that a head of department at an engineering firm trousers £90k plus bonus and heads of department in many financial services earn a base of £250k plus bonus then no. Also, surely the figures you quote suggest that they are doing a good job if the figures of such a mediocre establishment are so positive. Besides, I didn't suggest that the taxpayer should refund the money.
65
05/03/2021 22:18:21 3 5
bbc
BonkersBrextremists considers that Uni VC's etc don't earn excessive salaries. Uni Westminster (my alma mater). This is not one of the great unis - it was a poly a while back - yet, in the 2019 accts, 56% of income went in salaries. 11 people were paid between £110k - £250k, excl exps and pensions. They made £40m surplus, & have £46m in investments - but the taxpayer should refund their students ?
66
05/03/2021 22:30:39 1 2
bbc
Sorry, forgot to mention the £65m current asset investments on their balance sheet.
67
05/03/2021 23:13:34 8 2
bbc
My son's current experience at university is appalling. So called lectures are pre-recorded. And many assignments are marked by post-grad students who do not teach the actual course. He remarked recently that he could have saved a lot of money and got better service from the Open University. And I have to agree with him.
68
06/03/2021 02:03:56 7 1
bbc
More should realise that from the start. It will remain the same after universities go back to the bad old ways to extract more money. OU cheaper and better.
72
06/03/2021 08:20:24 1 3
bbc
The marking has always been the case. And besides, what's the difference between a pre-recorded lecture and a live lecture? They both take the same time to prepare. If he's at a decent university, having the name on his CV will far outweigh the OU in employability in the future.
67
05/03/2021 23:13:34 8 2
bbc
My son's current experience at university is appalling. So called lectures are pre-recorded. And many assignments are marked by post-grad students who do not teach the actual course. He remarked recently that he could have saved a lot of money and got better service from the Open University. And I have to agree with him.
68
06/03/2021 02:03:56 7 1
bbc
More should realise that from the start. It will remain the same after universities go back to the bad old ways to extract more money. OU cheaper and better.
64
05/03/2021 21:43:05 2 1
bbc
Wrong.
69
06/03/2021 08:14:09 0 2
bbc
You can't use a capital letter so...
63
05/03/2021 21:27:40 4 1
bbc
I can only sit in awe of the money that you are making if you don't find £290k - yes, over a grand every working day - eye watering. They are not required to make a profit, they churn out people with varying bits of paper every 3-4 years and they retire with very, very fat pensions.
70
06/03/2021 08:15:28 0 1
bbc
I went to a Russell Group university and whilst I don't earn that sort of money, many of the people that I studied with do.
65
05/03/2021 22:18:21 3 5
bbc
BonkersBrextremists considers that Uni VC's etc don't earn excessive salaries. Uni Westminster (my alma mater). This is not one of the great unis - it was a poly a while back - yet, in the 2019 accts, 56% of income went in salaries. 11 people were paid between £110k - £250k, excl exps and pensions. They made £40m surplus, & have £46m in investments - but the taxpayer should refund their students ?
71
06/03/2021 08:15:58 0 2
bbc
If you consider that a head of department at an engineering firm trousers £90k plus bonus and heads of department in many financial services earn a base of £250k plus bonus then no. Also, surely the figures you quote suggest that they are doing a good job if the figures of such a mediocre establishment are so positive. Besides, I didn't suggest that the taxpayer should refund the money.
67
05/03/2021 23:13:34 8 2
bbc
My son's current experience at university is appalling. So called lectures are pre-recorded. And many assignments are marked by post-grad students who do not teach the actual course. He remarked recently that he could have saved a lot of money and got better service from the Open University. And I have to agree with him.
72
06/03/2021 08:20:24 1 3
bbc
The marking has always been the case. And besides, what's the difference between a pre-recorded lecture and a live lecture? They both take the same time to prepare. If he's at a decent university, having the name on his CV will far outweigh the OU in employability in the future.
73
06/03/2021 09:59:29 2 1
bbc
"What do you say to a post-grad ?

Big Mac n fries please"

Bournemouth 1990.
78
06/03/2021 10:51:03 0 2
bbc
Fast food service is a good way to work your way through university. The big chains (McDonalds & KFC in particular) are happy to arrange shifts around academic commitments, & you also learn customer service skills!
30
05/03/2021 13:24:23 5 10
bbc
Where is all this extra money going to come from, if they had a mortgage or renting a family home they still would have to pay like the rest of society. A good proportion of students are only part-time and have there family homes to fall back on, making refunds today will have an impact on universities quality of education in the future. This should not be a burden for the tax payer
74
06/03/2021 10:03:35 0 1
bbc
hancocks loose change should suffice.
24
05/03/2021 13:01:17 12 8
bbc
How many times is the BBC going to use this picture of the blonde women sat amongst ethnic guys just because it suits its woke agenda. The UK is 90% white as the BBC well knows so this picture and all its ilk are highly disproportionate.
Where is the report of the women teacher who was found guilty today of abusing a minor? Again it doesn't fit the woke agenda.
Removed
76
06/03/2021 10:11:59 1 2
bbc
Of course the conservatives never liked an educated electorate.

Confused here mind - 'Matt Hancock acted unlawfully over Covid contract details, High Court judge rules'.

So will he be prosecuted, if not why not ?

Time for a berxit success-story as well bbc ?? ??
37
05/03/2021 13:54:55 4 3
bbc
Good, they are the future of work more generally. With the drive to be able to work from home. Perhaps time overdue that the needy of pointless socialising were the 'outcasts'. Work and socialising should be separate, do the latter if it is your idea of fun in your own time. Far too many UK workplaces are wanted to be in just to sit about chatting about the latest Strictly come dancing bake off!
77
06/03/2021 10:44:58 0 1
bbc
You may well be right, George. I also teach degree apprentices, who work in software development alongside their studies, and they say they hate lockdown but when you talk to them about why, it's the socialising & chit-chat that they miss. Their academic work doesn't show the same improvement as full-time students.
73
06/03/2021 09:59:29 2 1
bbc
"What do you say to a post-grad ?

Big Mac n fries please"

Bournemouth 1990.
78
06/03/2021 10:51:03 0 2
bbc
Fast food service is a good way to work your way through university. The big chains (McDonalds & KFC in particular) are happy to arrange shifts around academic commitments, & you also learn customer service skills!
56
05/03/2021 18:13:21 1 5
bbc
Drivel. My friend that used to do the scheduling of tv programmes at a national broadcaster did classics at university. Clearly not worthless.
79
06/03/2021 13:22:01 0 0
bbc
Judging by the rubbish on TV you have just contradicted yourself.
36
05/03/2021 13:51:00 3 6
bbc
The hope to save us from the evil of the pandemic is with the UK's world class universities and NHS. So far they are doing an excellent job. We all in owe and due recognition should be grante.
80
06/03/2021 13:23:10 0 0
bbc
Yes the UKs world class Universities I agree with. But not with some of the newer second rate ones.
81
06/03/2021 14:32:18 0 0
bbc
Universities are profit-making organisations with 'customers'. But the cash windfalls of Covid has shown up their inept financial management
Customers paid them fees for accommodation and teaching which they did not receive ergo the universities should refund in full.
Given they can't even manage their own pension funds I suggest the fraud squad should be looking into their financial management
43
05/03/2021 14:42:55 10 2
bbc
Higher education is a very mixed bag. There are some good universities doing worthwhile degrees that set some students up for good careers.
On the other hand there are some distinctly third rate establishments offering poor quality syllabuses and teaching in dubious subjects. Their only purpose to supply vice chancellors life of luxury.
82
06/03/2021 14:44:58 1 0
bbc
They are profit making organisations who view students as customers. Some measure value of a course by (number of bums on seats - equipment needed) divided by teaching space required.
So courses like media studies are excellent value for them. Popular because low grades required. No equipment needed. Cram the customers into lecture halls.
You only have to look at their attitude to refunds...
83
06/03/2021 17:10:27 0 0
bbc
@DMT

Students have had a terrible deal. My son has two one hour seminars per week ...

=======

Some university students studying science, engineering, medical, etc, return to reaching on campus on Monday 8th March for practical teaching such as laboratory experiments, tutorials or professional demonstrations/practical activities.

Medical students have already been doing this.
84
TV
bbc
Removed