'Right and just' for students to get Covid refunds
05/03/2021
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news
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education
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University students should be given compensation for disrupted studies, says Sir Anthony Seldon.
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Gargravarr
05/03/2021 11:15:47
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bbc
If tuition fees and loans were abolished, this wouldn`t be an issue.
Universities have failed to recognize that once we moved to a tuition fee system. Students were no longer a "commodity" but became "stakeholders" in their own education. This means universities need to provide perceived "value for money" for stakeholders, patently, they do not do this currently! Wake up! Universities!
Actually this was a cynical government decision to do this. Universities should be places of learning not somewhere that has to jump through hoops to "appeal" to students just to get enough money to carry on their work. Students feel like they are consumers, but ultimately they're not. They come to uni to work for a degree, not to buy one.
Students don't pay for a degree. That is not what their money is for. They work for a degree. They pay to ensure there are staff there to teach them, libraries and software for them to access etc. If a student fails a degree course because they didn't do any work does not mean that course is bad value, it means the student is lazy. They are actually not consumers they just think they are.
Universities have increased costs due to Covid, so students should be asked to pay more. That is what businesses do.
So if you signed a contract to receive a service, say you ordered a new car. After you agreed a price, you would happily hand over more money if the manufacturer said his costs had then increased? I think not.
This is true. THey still have all the maintenance and staffing costs plus the need to fund more technology for students and staff to continue studying with no detriment. I don't think the students should pay more, but it is fair to point out that unis have not saved any money in the pandemic. All teaching is online.
Given that students are not getting what they are paying for even though it is via a loan system it is right and morally proper for fee refunds and in the case of 1st years accommodation refunds to. No one can honestly say they are getting the same quality of tuition on line and 30% of fees are to maintain campus facilities that aren't being used. A £6K reduction off the loan debt is about right.
So how will those renting accommodation be compensated, they've done nothing wrong (well nothing new wrong) either.
What would have been right and just is that universities should have continued unchanged throughout this Chicken Little panic.
The risk posed to most students is NEGLIGIBLE, and that posed to university staff is REALLY TINY.
These young people have had their education, future, and mental health sacrificed to just SLIGHTLY reduce the risk to the very old. This is selfish, cowardly and immoral!
The risk posed to most students is NEGLIGIBLE, and that posed to university staff is REALLY TINY.
These young people have had their education, future, and mental health sacrificed to just SLIGHTLY reduce the risk to the very old. This is selfish, cowardly and immoral!
Really? I'm not sacrificing my imuno compromised colleagues or their relatives so students can come back to "live the student life" i.e. get drunk and spread the disease.
Of course the DfE are washing their hands of it and say its down to Unis. However the Student Loan Company is government financed, so they absolutely can dictate a £5K or £6K reduction on the outstanding debt. Especially when in some cases these £40K plus debts aren't paid off and written off after 30 years. Might as well show some goodwill now and write off £5k or £6K, it's a smallish proportion.
Waiting for the Boomers (who got their higher education for FREE) to slam the young again. The ladder was pulled up by them long ago
You are obviously still green around the ears, easily led by the media and those with an agenda to provide the young with a grievance to distract them from their exploitation by commerce.
Some boomers maybe. Sure you'd happily trade your life experience with the successful ones, but would you trade with those who had an adverse experience? Of course not.
A much lower percentage of the boomer generation went to university. Many went straight from school to work or apprenticeship.
If they want half-off their tuition fee then I presume they'll be happy with half off their final grading?
You can't claim to have no learnt properly whilst also demanding maintained grading levels.
You can't claim to have no learnt properly whilst also demanding maintained grading levels.
What a silly comment. Are you saying the students could not possibly study harder to make up for the lack of teaching time?
Teaching Computer Science at a university, I've noticed a marked increase in quality of student work. Talking to students, they've cited the 'lack of distraction' enabling them to concentrate on their studies, notably final year students focussing on their project work.
I have a M.Sc. in Computer Science and was a top flight software developer for over 20 years, so I know something about this area.
In large measure this field attracts introverts who are much more happy sitting in front of a screen than interacting with people. So it's no surprise they are thriving. But the VAST MAJORITY of students are not like this!
In large measure this field attracts introverts who are much more happy sitting in front of a screen than interacting with people. So it's no surprise they are thriving. But the VAST MAJORITY of students are not like this!
Teaching Computer Science at a university, I've noticed a marked increase in quality of student work. Talking to students, they've cited the 'lack of distraction' enabling them to concentrate on their studies, notably final year students focussing on their project work.
I have a M.Sc. in Computer Science and was a top flight software developer for over 20 years, so I know something about this area.
In large measure this field attracts introverts who are much more happy sitting in front of a screen than interacting with people. So it's no surprise they are thriving. But the VAST MAJORITY of students are not like this!
In large measure this field attracts introverts who are much more happy sitting in front of a screen than interacting with people. So it's no surprise they are thriving. But the VAST MAJORITY of students are not like this!
Good, they are the future of work more generally. With the drive to be able to work from home. Perhaps time overdue that the needy of pointless socialising were the 'outcasts'. Work and socialising should be separate, do the latter if it is your idea of fun in your own time. Far too many UK workplaces are wanted to be in just to sit about chatting about the latest Strictly come dancing bake off!
Teaching Computer Science at a university, I've noticed a marked increase in quality of student work. Talking to students, they've cited the 'lack of distraction' enabling them to concentrate on their studies, notably final year students focussing on their project work.
Dude, I know where you're coming from. My B.Sc. was Chemistry and Physics. If memory serves me right I spent almost every afternoon in my first two years in the lab. It would have been the same in my third year if I hadn't focused on the theoretical topics.
These so called "universities" have shamelessly exploited the demand for vanity degrees, in art history, social sciences, surboard design, etc. making a vast profit from so called education. Yes, it is true that "Baby Boomers" such as myself benefitted from free education, but entry was tougher and the standards & subects sensible.
These "institutions" should refund their students fairly.
These "institutions" should refund their students fairly.
Art history is not a vanity subject. it teaches research skills, writing, how to debate and present alongside social history. I studied mine in the evenings, left with no debt due to working and now make 50% more than my partner who is an applied mathematician with 3 degrees and a PhD all in applied maths. A so called hard degree would never have suited me as a creative person, diversity is key.
Could they not also work harder to pay off the extra cost? After all nobody voted for Covid, yet we've all had to cope and pay for it one way or another.
What would have been right and just is that universities should have continued unchanged throughout this Chicken Little panic.
The risk posed to most students is NEGLIGIBLE, and that posed to university staff is REALLY TINY.
These young people have had their education, future, and mental health sacrificed to just SLIGHTLY reduce the risk to the very old. This is selfish, cowardly and immoral!
The risk posed to most students is NEGLIGIBLE, and that posed to university staff is REALLY TINY.
These young people have had their education, future, and mental health sacrificed to just SLIGHTLY reduce the risk to the very old. This is selfish, cowardly and immoral!
It is time to rethink higher education in the UK. It is not just the fees for questionable degrees. There is the under-representation of some ethnic minorities and of boys.
As for children who have been through the 'care' system, this article from Adoption UK says it better than I can:
https://www.adoptionuk.org/news/college-drop-out-rates-for-adopted-young-people-alarming-warns-charity
.
As for children who have been through the 'care' system, this article from Adoption UK says it better than I can:
https://www.adoptionuk.org/news/college-drop-out-rates-for-adopted-young-people-alarming-warns-charity
.
To those who voted down my comment: Can you please tell us what it is you disagree with? Is it what I said about boys?
"The higher education participation level for young women has now reached 56.6%, compared to only 44.1% for young men."
See:
https://www.hepi.ac.uk/2020/03/07/mind-the-gap-gender-differences-in-higher-education/
"The higher education participation level for young women has now reached 56.6%, compared to only 44.1% for young men."
See:
https://www.hepi.ac.uk/2020/03/07/mind-the-gap-gender-differences-in-higher-education/
This is true. THey still have all the maintenance and staffing costs plus the need to fund more technology for students and staff to continue studying with no detriment. I don't think the students should pay more, but it is fair to point out that unis have not saved any money in the pandemic. All teaching is online.
Universities have failed to recognize that once we moved to a tuition fee system. Students were no longer a "commodity" but became "stakeholders" in their own education. This means universities need to provide perceived "value for money" for stakeholders, patently, they do not do this currently! Wake up! Universities!
Actually this was a cynical government decision to do this. Universities should be places of learning not somewhere that has to jump through hoops to "appeal" to students just to get enough money to carry on their work. Students feel like they are consumers, but ultimately they're not. They come to uni to work for a degree, not to buy one.
The fees were introduced by Labour and then supported, indeed increased by the Tories, with the LibDems pledged against it, that is until they got the whiff of power in their nostrils?
It was a bad idea right from the start. As was the Blair 50% target.
It was a bad idea right from the start. As was the Blair 50% target.
Universities have failed to recognize that once we moved to a tuition fee system. Students were no longer a "commodity" but became "stakeholders" in their own education. This means universities need to provide perceived "value for money" for stakeholders, patently, they do not do this currently! Wake up! Universities!
Students don't pay for a degree. That is not what their money is for. They work for a degree. They pay to ensure there are staff there to teach them, libraries and software for them to access etc. If a student fails a degree course because they didn't do any work does not mean that course is bad value, it means the student is lazy. They are actually not consumers they just think they are.
Actually this was a cynical government decision to do this. Universities should be places of learning not somewhere that has to jump through hoops to "appeal" to students just to get enough money to carry on their work. Students feel like they are consumers, but ultimately they're not. They come to uni to work for a degree, not to buy one.
How many times is the BBC going to use this picture of the blonde women sat amongst ethnic guys just because it suits its woke agenda. The UK is 90% white as the BBC well knows so this picture and all its ilk are highly disproportionate.
Where is the report of the women teacher who was found guilty today of abusing a minor? Again it doesn't fit the woke agenda.
Where is the report of the women teacher who was found guilty today of abusing a minor? Again it doesn't fit the woke agenda.
Two of those people are white and just because a woman (note the correct spelling with an A) has been found guilty of a crime you think that means 50% of the population should be removed from all depictions of society!? You also clearly haven't been to university for many decades, if ever as there are a huge number of international students in addition to our own ethnic minorities.
From the number of people that have upvoted your drivel, it seems the gam gam snowflake brigade are out in force.
And let’s face it, the U.K. may be 90% white but many white working class don’t value education, so I bet the picture is pretty re
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So should the compensation come from the universities? If it should be from government, it means taxpayers (including pensioners), the majority of whom don't have degrees, pay for the compensation for those who wish to benefit from a degree & if successful may have a lifetime of working on higher pay to make up for it or if they don't won't have to pay off their loan anyway.
So what? We pay your pension ms and your healthcare, why shouldn’t you contribute to others?
What a silly comment. Are you saying the students could not possibly study harder to make up for the lack of teaching time?
But why should they? It is not them providing the service.
Lots of well rounded individuals commenting on what they think they know as usual I see.
The danger is if Universities have to pay back money without support, staff will get cut and the students will have a worse experience. Universities have many wider benefits to society and local economies, the loss of which would be devastating to some town and cities.
The danger is if Universities have to pay back money without support, staff will get cut and the students will have a worse experience. Universities have many wider benefits to society and local economies, the loss of which would be devastating to some town and cities.
Removed
Given that students are not getting what they are paying for even though it is via a loan system it is right and morally proper for fee refunds and in the case of 1st years accommodation refunds to. No one can honestly say they are getting the same quality of tuition on line and 30% of fees are to maintain campus facilities that aren't being used. A £6K reduction off the loan debt is about right.
Where is all this extra money going to come from, if they had a mortgage or renting a family home they still would have to pay like the rest of society. A good proportion of students are only part-time and have there family homes to fall back on, making refunds today will have an impact on universities quality of education in the future. This should not be a burden for the tax payer
hancocks loose change should suffice.
How many times is the BBC going to use this picture of the blonde women sat amongst ethnic guys just because it suits its woke agenda. The UK is 90% white as the BBC well knows so this picture and all its ilk are highly disproportionate.
Where is the report of the women teacher who was found guilty today of abusing a minor? Again it doesn't fit the woke agenda.
Where is the report of the women teacher who was found guilty today of abusing a minor? Again it doesn't fit the woke agenda.
Two of those people are white and just because a woman (note the correct spelling with an A) has been found guilty of a crime you think that means 50% of the population should be removed from all depictions of society!? You also clearly haven't been to university for many decades, if ever as there are a huge number of international students in addition to our own ethnic minorities.
Higher education is just a rip off, with students paying for useless degrees that the taxpayer will end up writing off.
Higher education is a very mixed bag. There are some good universities doing worthwhile degrees that set some students up for good careers.
On the other hand there are some distinctly third rate establishments offering poor quality syllabuses and teaching in dubious subjects. Their only purpose to supply vice chancellors life of luxury.
On the other hand there are some distinctly third rate establishments offering poor quality syllabuses and teaching in dubious subjects. Their only purpose to supply vice chancellors life of luxury.
As opposed to the taxpayer funding your triple locked pension?
Totally Mr Seldon. You were at the helm of some of the UKs most privileged educational establishments where money was of no consequence but you still argue this point exceptionally well. Government should compensate students affected by exceptional circumstances without delay.
And let this start the change of the way we treat our young people in the UK.
And let this start the change of the way we treat our young people in the UK.
These so called "universities" have shamelessly exploited the demand for vanity degrees, in art history, social sciences, surboard design, etc. making a vast profit from so called education. Yes, it is true that "Baby Boomers" such as myself benefitted from free education, but entry was tougher and the standards & subects sensible.
These "institutions" should refund their students fairly.
These "institutions" should refund their students fairly.
Art history is not a vanity subject. it teaches research skills, writing, how to debate and present alongside social history. I studied mine in the evenings, left with no debt due to working and now make 50% more than my partner who is an applied mathematician with 3 degrees and a PhD all in applied maths. A so called hard degree would never have suited me as a creative person, diversity is key.
You got remote delivery then no refund is remotely needed. If you are smart enough to be at university you will save a fortune anyway by remaining at home to do your degree.
The accommodation scam can end. Make this a permanent change in behaviours and be much better off.
The accommodation scam can end. Make this a permanent change in behaviours and be much better off.
The hope to save us from the evil of the pandemic is with the UK's world class universities and NHS. So far they are doing an excellent job. We all in owe and due recognition should be grante.
Yes the UKs world class Universities I agree with. But not with some of the newer second rate ones.
I have a M.Sc. in Computer Science and was a top flight software developer for over 20 years, so I know something about this area.
In large measure this field attracts introverts who are much more happy sitting in front of a screen than interacting with people. So it's no surprise they are thriving. But the VAST MAJORITY of students are not like this!
In large measure this field attracts introverts who are much more happy sitting in front of a screen than interacting with people. So it's no surprise they are thriving. But the VAST MAJORITY of students are not like this!
Good, they are the future of work more generally. With the drive to be able to work from home. Perhaps time overdue that the needy of pointless socialising were the 'outcasts'. Work and socialising should be separate, do the latter if it is your idea of fun in your own time. Far too many UK workplaces are wanted to be in just to sit about chatting about the latest Strictly come dancing bake off!
You may well be right, George. I also teach degree apprentices, who work in software development alongside their studies, and they say they hate lockdown but when you talk to them about why, it's the socialising & chit-chat that they miss. Their academic work doesn't show the same improvement as full-time students.
Could they not also work harder to pay off the extra cost? After all nobody voted for Covid, yet we've all had to cope and pay for it one way or another.
So I shouldn't have to pay anything for it through tax, I didn't provide the service either, wasn't even a party to it.
How many times is the BBC going to use this picture of the blonde women sat amongst ethnic guys just because it suits its woke agenda. The UK is 90% white as the BBC well knows so this picture and all its ilk are highly disproportionate.
Where is the report of the women teacher who was found guilty today of abusing a minor? Again it doesn't fit the woke agenda.
Where is the report of the women teacher who was found guilty today of abusing a minor? Again it doesn't fit the woke agenda.
It is time to rethink higher education in the UK. It is not just the fees for questionable degrees. There is the under-representation of some ethnic minorities and of boys.
As for children who have been through the 'care' system, this article from Adoption UK says it better than I can:
https://www.adoptionuk.org/news/college-drop-out-rates-for-adopted-young-people-alarming-warns-charity
.
As for children who have been through the 'care' system, this article from Adoption UK says it better than I can:
https://www.adoptionuk.org/news/college-drop-out-rates-for-adopted-young-people-alarming-warns-charity
.
To those who voted down my comment: Can you please tell us what it is you disagree with? Is it what I said about boys?
"The higher education participation level for young women has now reached 56.6%, compared to only 44.1% for young men."
See:
https://www.hepi.ac.uk/2020/03/07/mind-the-gap-gender-differences-in-higher-education/
"The higher education participation level for young women has now reached 56.6%, compared to only 44.1% for young men."
See:
https://www.hepi.ac.uk/2020/03/07/mind-the-gap-gender-differences-in-higher-education/
For an insight into how the under-representation of men in social work can affect adoptive parents please see this article on the Male Psychology Network site:
https://malepsychology.org.uk/2018/08/02/issues-adoptive-parents-might-face/
.
https://malepsychology.org.uk/2018/08/02/issues-adoptive-parents-might-face/
.
Higher education is just a rip off, with students paying for useless degrees that the taxpayer will end up writing off.
Higher education is a very mixed bag. There are some good universities doing worthwhile degrees that set some students up for good careers.
On the other hand there are some distinctly third rate establishments offering poor quality syllabuses and teaching in dubious subjects. Their only purpose to supply vice chancellors life of luxury.
On the other hand there are some distinctly third rate establishments offering poor quality syllabuses and teaching in dubious subjects. Their only purpose to supply vice chancellors life of luxury.
Higher education is a very mixed bag. There are some good universities doing worthwhile degrees that set some students up for good careers.
On the other hand there are some distinctly third rate establishments offering poor quality syllabuses and teaching in dubious subjects. Their only purpose to supply vice chancellors life of luxury.
On the other hand there are some distinctly third rate establishments offering poor quality syllabuses and teaching in dubious subjects. Their only purpose to supply vice chancellors life of luxury.
There are some good universities doing worthless degrees. For example: Literae Humaniores.
They are profit making organisations who view students as customers. Some measure value of a course by (number of bums on seats - equipment needed) divided by teaching space required.
So courses like media studies are excellent value for them. Popular because low grades required. No equipment needed. Cram the customers into lecture halls.
You only have to look at their attitude to refunds...
So courses like media studies are excellent value for them. Popular because low grades required. No equipment needed. Cram the customers into lecture halls.
You only have to look at their attitude to refunds...
All International Student should get 25% tuition fees back.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-56285701
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-56285701
But why should they? It is not them providing the service.
Higher education is a very mixed bag. There are some good universities doing worthwhile degrees that set some students up for good careers.
On the other hand there are some distinctly third rate establishments offering poor quality syllabuses and teaching in dubious subjects. Their only purpose to supply vice chancellors life of luxury.
On the other hand there are some distinctly third rate establishments offering poor quality syllabuses and teaching in dubious subjects. Their only purpose to supply vice chancellors life of luxury.
Drivel. My friend that used to do the scheduling of tv programmes at a national broadcaster did classics at university. Clearly not worthless.
Students have had a terrible deal. My son has two one hour seminars per week, term time only, that is his teaching allocation at a cost of £9,250 this year. When I taught in HE contact was significantly higher. No access to the library because he is at home, rent being paid on a house he can’t live in and now although school and college students can return, Uni students can’t. Unfair!
So universities received the money in the first place, choose to pay their VC's eye-watering salaries (the average in 2016/7 was £290k), maintain defined benefit pension schemes when most other organisations run money purchase, but the taxpayer should pick up the cost of reimbursing students ?
Oh well, put like that, only too happy to cough up.
Oh well, put like that, only too happy to cough up.
Their salaries aren’t that eye watering when you consider other postgraduate level careers with that level of respo.
To those who voted down my comment: Can you please tell us what it is you disagree with? Is it what I said about boys?
"The higher education participation level for young women has now reached 56.6%, compared to only 44.1% for young men."
See:
https://www.hepi.ac.uk/2020/03/07/mind-the-gap-gender-differences-in-higher-education/
"The higher education participation level for young women has now reached 56.6%, compared to only 44.1% for young men."
See:
https://www.hepi.ac.uk/2020/03/07/mind-the-gap-gender-differences-in-higher-education/
For an insight into how the under-representation of men in social work can affect adoptive parents please see this article on the Male Psychology Network site:
https://malepsychology.org.uk/2018/08/02/issues-adoptive-parents-might-face/
.
https://malepsychology.org.uk/2018/08/02/issues-adoptive-parents-might-face/
.
But not from the public purse. The greedy Universities must pay up. If it means they fail to survive so be it. Too many low grade "Universities".
I’m guessing that you are a “university of life” graduate with no idea what you are talking about?
You employ a builder, and pay him a substantial amount up front. Sadly, he only does part of the work. He agrees that it is right and just that you get a refund proportionate to the incomplete work, but, unfortunately, he employs his partner at a fairly high salary, and that money's gone, so he can't pay you back. He suggests that you bear some yourself, and pop round to Jones to ask for the rest.
For an insight into how the under-representation of men in social work can affect adoptive parents please see this article on the Male Psychology Network site:
https://malepsychology.org.uk/2018/08/02/issues-adoptive-parents-might-face/
.
https://malepsychology.org.uk/2018/08/02/issues-adoptive-parents-might-face/
.
If they hammer the universities too hard they won;t have a university to go back to!
So universities received the money in the first place, choose to pay their VC's eye-watering salaries (the average in 2016/7 was £290k), maintain defined benefit pension schemes when most other organisations run money purchase, but the taxpayer should pick up the cost of reimbursing students ?
Oh well, put like that, only too happy to cough up.
Oh well, put like that, only too happy to cough up.
I can only sit in awe of the money that you are making if you don't find £290k - yes, over a grand every working day - eye watering. They are not required to make a profit, they churn out people with varying bits of paper every 3-4 years and they retire with very, very fat pensions.
Judging by the rubbish on TV you have just contradicted yourself.
Higher education is just a rip off, with students paying for useless degrees that the taxpayer will end up writing off.
Lots of well rounded individuals commenting on what they think they know as usual I see.
The danger is if Universities have to pay back money without support, staff will get cut and the students will have a worse experience. Universities have many wider benefits to society and local economies, the loss of which would be devastating to some town and cities.
The danger is if Universities have to pay back money without support, staff will get cut and the students will have a worse experience. Universities have many wider benefits to society and local economies, the loss of which would be devastating to some town and cities.
So should the compensation come from the universities? If it should be from government, it means taxpayers (including pensioners), the majority of whom don't have degrees, pay for the compensation for those who wish to benefit from a degree & if successful may have a lifetime of working on higher pay to make up for it or if they don't won't have to pay off their loan anyway.
How many times is the BBC going to use this picture of the blonde women sat amongst ethnic guys just because it suits its woke agenda. The UK is 90% white as the BBC well knows so this picture and all its ilk are highly disproportionate.
Where is the report of the women teacher who was found guilty today of abusing a minor? Again it doesn't fit the woke agenda.
Where is the report of the women teacher who was found guilty today of abusing a minor? Again it doesn't fit the woke agenda.
How many times is the BBC going to use this picture of the blonde women sat amongst ethnic guys just because it suits its woke agenda. The UK is 90% white as the BBC well knows so this picture and all its ilk are highly disproportionate.
Where is the report of the women teacher who was found guilty today of abusing a minor? Again it doesn't fit the woke agenda.
Where is the report of the women teacher who was found guilty today of abusing a minor? Again it doesn't fit the woke agenda.
How many times is the BBC going to use this picture of the blonde women sat amongst ethnic guys just because it suits its woke agenda. The UK is 90% white as the BBC well knows so this picture and all its ilk are highly disproportionate.
Where is the report of the women teacher who was found guilty today of abusing a minor? Again it doesn't fit the woke agenda.
Where is the report of the women teacher who was found guilty today of abusing a minor? Again it doesn't fit the woke agenda.
Their salaries aren’t that eye watering when you consider other postgraduate level careers with that level of respo.
I went to a Russell Group university and whilst I don't earn that sort of money, many of the people that I studied with do.
I’m guessing that you are a “university of life” graduate with no idea what you are talking about?
You can't use a capital letter so...
BonkersBrextremists considers that Uni VC's etc don't earn excessive salaries. Uni Westminster (my alma mater). This is not one of the great unis - it was a poly a while back - yet, in the 2019 accts, 56% of income went in salaries. 11 people were paid between £110k - £250k, excl exps and pensions. They made £40m surplus, & have £46m in investments - but the taxpayer should refund their students ?
Sorry, forgot to mention the £65m current asset investments on their balance sheet.
If you consider that a head of department at an engineering firm trousers £90k plus bonus and heads of department in many financial services earn a base of £250k plus bonus then no. Also, surely the figures you quote suggest that they are doing a good job if the figures of such a mediocre establishment are so positive. Besides, I didn't suggest that the taxpayer should refund the money.
BonkersBrextremists considers that Uni VC's etc don't earn excessive salaries. Uni Westminster (my alma mater). This is not one of the great unis - it was a poly a while back - yet, in the 2019 accts, 56% of income went in salaries. 11 people were paid between £110k - £250k, excl exps and pensions. They made £40m surplus, & have £46m in investments - but the taxpayer should refund their students ?
My son's current experience at university is appalling. So called lectures are pre-recorded. And many assignments are marked by post-grad students who do not teach the actual course. He remarked recently that he could have saved a lot of money and got better service from the Open University. And I have to agree with him.
More should realise that from the start. It will remain the same after universities go back to the bad old ways to extract more money. OU cheaper and better.
The marking has always been the case. And besides, what's the difference between a pre-recorded lecture and a live lecture? They both take the same time to prepare. If he's at a decent university, having the name on his CV will far outweigh the OU in employability in the future.
My son's current experience at university is appalling. So called lectures are pre-recorded. And many assignments are marked by post-grad students who do not teach the actual course. He remarked recently that he could have saved a lot of money and got better service from the Open University. And I have to agree with him.
I can only sit in awe of the money that you are making if you don't find £290k - yes, over a grand every working day - eye watering. They are not required to make a profit, they churn out people with varying bits of paper every 3-4 years and they retire with very, very fat pensions.
BonkersBrextremists considers that Uni VC's etc don't earn excessive salaries. Uni Westminster (my alma mater). This is not one of the great unis - it was a poly a while back - yet, in the 2019 accts, 56% of income went in salaries. 11 people were paid between £110k - £250k, excl exps and pensions. They made £40m surplus, & have £46m in investments - but the taxpayer should refund their students ?
If you consider that a head of department at an engineering firm trousers £90k plus bonus and heads of department in many financial services earn a base of £250k plus bonus then no. Also, surely the figures you quote suggest that they are doing a good job if the figures of such a mediocre establishment are so positive. Besides, I didn't suggest that the taxpayer should refund the money.
My son's current experience at university is appalling. So called lectures are pre-recorded. And many assignments are marked by post-grad students who do not teach the actual course. He remarked recently that he could have saved a lot of money and got better service from the Open University. And I have to agree with him.
"What do you say to a post-grad ?
Big Mac n fries please"
Bournemouth 1990.
Big Mac n fries please"
Bournemouth 1990.
Where is all this extra money going to come from, if they had a mortgage or renting a family home they still would have to pay like the rest of society. A good proportion of students are only part-time and have there family homes to fall back on, making refunds today will have an impact on universities quality of education in the future. This should not be a burden for the tax payer
How many times is the BBC going to use this picture of the blonde women sat amongst ethnic guys just because it suits its woke agenda. The UK is 90% white as the BBC well knows so this picture and all its ilk are highly disproportionate.
Where is the report of the women teacher who was found guilty today of abusing a minor? Again it doesn't fit the woke agenda.
Where is the report of the women teacher who was found guilty today of abusing a minor? Again it doesn't fit the woke agenda.
Of course the conservatives never liked an educated electorate.
Confused here mind - 'Matt Hancock acted unlawfully over Covid contract details, High Court judge rules'.
So will he be prosecuted, if not why not ?
Time for a berxit success-story as well bbc ?? ??
Confused here mind - 'Matt Hancock acted unlawfully over Covid contract details, High Court judge rules'.
So will he be prosecuted, if not why not ?
Time for a berxit success-story as well bbc ?? ??
Good, they are the future of work more generally. With the drive to be able to work from home. Perhaps time overdue that the needy of pointless socialising were the 'outcasts'. Work and socialising should be separate, do the latter if it is your idea of fun in your own time. Far too many UK workplaces are wanted to be in just to sit about chatting about the latest Strictly come dancing bake off!
You may well be right, George. I also teach degree apprentices, who work in software development alongside their studies, and they say they hate lockdown but when you talk to them about why, it's the socialising & chit-chat that they miss. Their academic work doesn't show the same improvement as full-time students.
"What do you say to a post-grad ?
Big Mac n fries please"
Bournemouth 1990.
Big Mac n fries please"
Bournemouth 1990.
Drivel. My friend that used to do the scheduling of tv programmes at a national broadcaster did classics at university. Clearly not worthless.
Universities are profit-making organisations with 'customers'. But the cash windfalls of Covid has shown up their inept financial management
Customers paid them fees for accommodation and teaching which they did not receive ergo the universities should refund in full.
Given they can't even manage their own pension funds I suggest the fraud squad should be looking into their financial management
Customers paid them fees for accommodation and teaching which they did not receive ergo the universities should refund in full.
Given they can't even manage their own pension funds I suggest the fraud squad should be looking into their financial management
Higher education is a very mixed bag. There are some good universities doing worthwhile degrees that set some students up for good careers.
On the other hand there are some distinctly third rate establishments offering poor quality syllabuses and teaching in dubious subjects. Their only purpose to supply vice chancellors life of luxury.
On the other hand there are some distinctly third rate establishments offering poor quality syllabuses and teaching in dubious subjects. Their only purpose to supply vice chancellors life of luxury.
They are profit making organisations who view students as customers. Some measure value of a course by (number of bums on seats - equipment needed) divided by teaching space required.
So courses like media studies are excellent value for them. Popular because low grades required. No equipment needed. Cram the customers into lecture halls.
You only have to look at their attitude to refunds...
So courses like media studies are excellent value for them. Popular because low grades required. No equipment needed. Cram the customers into lecture halls.
You only have to look at their attitude to refunds...
@DMT
Students have had a terrible deal. My son has two one hour seminars per week ...
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Some university students studying science, engineering, medical, etc, return to reaching on campus on Monday 8th March for practical teaching such as laboratory experiments, tutorials or professional demonstrations/practical activities.
Medical students have already been doing this.
Students have had a terrible deal. My son has two one hour seminars per week ...
=======
Some university students studying science, engineering, medical, etc, return to reaching on campus on Monday 8th March for practical teaching such as laboratory experiments, tutorials or professional demonstrations/practical activities.
Medical students have already been doing this.