Sir Keir Starmer's critics in Labour become increasingly vocal
02/03/2021
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politics
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The Labour leader is not being strident enough in opposition, two ex-shadow ministers say.
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Pinzamoss
02/03/2021 10:14:23
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bbc
Damned if he does, dammed if he doesn't... the lot of an opposition leader.
Did he ?
Dodd he.
Dodd he.
That is the lot of any administration in power right now in this pandemic ..... I am sure he really doesn't want the current poisoned chalice and is happy to snipe from the side-lines. Ironic his own party turn on him for that.
I think you'll find that applies to the PM equally as well!
'Damned if he does, dammed if he doesn't... the lot of an opposition leader.'
and the lot of being Prime Minister too!
and the lot of being Prime Minister too!
Dissent is not allowed here in the queendom of Sturgeonia. Come the revolution!
Seems like we're never allowed an opportunity to comment on the Conservatives' displeasure with Bojo the Clown either. Funny that.
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Don't be silly. That would be impartial, non-bias new reporting.
"Brexit" means Scottish Independence, Irish unification, the regional fragmentation of England and Wales, the end of the monarchy and the death of the Conservative and Unionist Party. Get over it.
Removed
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Or indeed Boris' new Charitable Foundation to get Big Business to pay for Carrie's "Out of Control" home decorating foibles, under the guise of Supporting Britain or the Conservative Party.
Vested interests, or what?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/budget/budget-news-live-boris-johnson-brexit-b1810118.html
Vested interests, or what?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/budget/budget-news-live-boris-johnson-brexit-b1810118.html
Frankly I'm amazed that we're allowed to comment on anything critical about Labour. I had to sit down tha knows.
I am sure Sarah Smith will be permitted a party political broadcast on behalf of the Social Nationalist Party on the main news - plus the daily political broadcast by Sturgeon - blimey even Salmond complained it was not about Covid !
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Seems like we're never allowed an opportunity to comment on the Conservatives' displeasure with Bojo the Clown either. Funny that.
But to get around the other clown who had this comment removed on the grounds of being 'off-topic' I will add this; I think Kier Starmer is doing very well under the circumstances, given that 80% of the press support the Tories despite 123,000 Covid-19 deaths.
But to get around the other clown who had this comment removed on the grounds of being 'off-topic' I will add this; I think Kier Starmer is doing very well under the circumstances, given that 80% of the press support the Tories despite 123,000 Covid-19 deaths.
Why would you want to? It's just another incidence of the BBC giving powerful men the benefit of the doubt because it suits the "English" aristocracy/Tories and furthers the journalistic careers of their Eton/OxBridge bag carriers.
Never liked them, but I never thought I'd see the day Tory voters became so servile that they'd cheer the UK morphing into the North Korea of the North Atlantic.
Never liked them, but I never thought I'd see the day Tory voters became so servile that they'd cheer the UK morphing into the North Korea of the North Atlantic.
Starmer's brand of Tory Lite politics will never sit well with what is supposed to be the countries left wing party.
The Momentum Marxists continue their march towards electoral oblivion and do their best to drag the rest of Labour down with them.
Tories are going to be happy.
Tories are going to be happy.
This country desperately needs a better opposition than any faction of the Labour Party appears to be able to provide. The Tories, or something like the Tories, will always exist to represent the mean-spirited and reactionary part of the population. But forward-thinking progressives are poorly served.
Upsetting the Marxists is a clear sign that he's actually appealing to the electorate and perhaps even on course to win an election.
The Marxists have been leaving in droves. Keep up. Have even read the story
Momentum should form their own party, out on the fringe left where they belong.
If I was Sir Keir, I'd jump ship to the Conservatives. He is better suited to them anyway, he could probably fill the old Ken Clarke role.
But don't forget, as they still keep telling us, they won the argument....although, unfortunately, they narrowly lost the election.
I just wish I could find out what the argument they won was.
I just wish I could find out what the argument they won was.
The Tories aren't going to be happy when 'the mob' rock up outside their mansions, and it'll take more than a set of sociopaths and sycophants (aka Tory voters) to stop us.
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Do you even know what Karl Marx philosophies are? No, I thought not.
Some of Marx philosophies are undeniable truths. I am a very moderate socialist, middle of the road, what some simpletons would call a 'champagne socialist'. I am no Marxist but some of his writings are very good.
Don't be lazy, calling someone a Marxist, it is a compliment in my view, it show's we think and care.
Some of Marx philosophies are undeniable truths. I am a very moderate socialist, middle of the road, what some simpletons would call a 'champagne socialist'. I am no Marxist but some of his writings are very good.
Don't be lazy, calling someone a Marxist, it is a compliment in my view, it show's we think and care.
Do you have a problem with Tax profits from Large Corps who made vast profits from the lockdown?
Labour’s hijacking grassroots activists didn’t listen to the voters. The voters however did listen to them and voted for Boris. That is just about the lowest point in Labour’s entire history. Don’t forget how the Scots have quite rightly rejected Labour also. The last decent leader of Labour was Harold Wilson. Blair should be in prison, Starmer is a stopgap bring back David Miliband.
Sir Keir has proven to be a disaster for the Labour Party
The trouble with the opposition is that whatever the amount is, it's never enough or too much.
The Never ruddy satisfieds.
The Never ruddy satisfieds.
It was Corbyn and his 3rd world socialism that gave Labour the worst result ever.
Perhaps they should have been more critical a year ago, but as Sir Keir has often demonstrated, hindsight is a wonderful thing.
But the party elected Starmer with an overwhelming majority.
Don't know if its intentional or just that he's so beige as to be unnewsworthy, but I rarely hear of him. Corbyn was in the news everyday, mainly because they wanted rid of him, but at least he was in the conversation. Buck up or get out, Sir.
I liked Corbyn's aura
Sir Keir's is 50 shades of greige
Sir Keir's is 50 shades of greige
Starmer's brand of Tory Lite politics will never sit well with what is supposed to be the countries left wing party.
That horse has long since bolted and the stable door slammed sht.
How do you define the term “working classes”, which gets banded about so often, but without any qualification as to who fits into that categorisation? Is it just anyone who is dependant upon the Public Purse for an income or is there some magical salary threshold that enables someone to be labelled working class or maybe even anyone foolish enough to support the Labour Party?
You should talk to your kids more
Most of working age are curiously moderate
They have to be because they have no employee protections and Maggie disembowelled the unions, so they need to keep their jobs
It is only the oldies that refight the 1970s and pigeonhole themselves as "working class", or "middle class" and rip the country apart on the back of it
Most of working age are curiously moderate
They have to be because they have no employee protections and Maggie disembowelled the unions, so they need to keep their jobs
It is only the oldies that refight the 1970s and pigeonhole themselves as "working class", or "middle class" and rip the country apart on the back of it
That's a knotty issue.
Starmer's brand of Tory Lite politics will never sit well with what is supposed to be the countries left wing party.
Don't. We need a credible opposition for a healthy democracy.
A laugh that we will pay very dearly though.
My hope was for Jess Phillips
Sir Keir has proven to be a disaster for the Labour Party
He has, but that doesn't negate the original point that Sir Keir has proven to be a disaster for the Labour Party.
Two wrong's don't make a right. And Boris being even more of a disaster doesn't mean Sir Keir is any less of one - he just looks it in perspective.
Two wrong's don't make a right. And Boris being even more of a disaster doesn't mean Sir Keir is any less of one - he just looks it in perspective.
IMO I think he is a credible opposition to the Tories, who I usually vote for.
I am listening very carefully to what he and other parties are saying. We need to have a real choice when the next elections come up. Not just that of who seems the least worst option!
I am listening very carefully to what he and other parties are saying. We need to have a real choice when the next elections come up. Not just that of who seems the least worst option!
Interesting comment in that I have had to vote for the least worst option for the last 15 years or more. If only there were a party that put common sense ahead of politics and political correctness.
Agreed but Starmer has no personality. It’s all well and good appealing to the Islington set who have kept their public sector posts and pensions but how can he ever appeal to the red wall working class voters who are losing their jobs?
This ^^^
Welcome to politics, it's always a case of the least worst option. If people are looking for perfection then they are going to be sadly disappointed. Socialism is an abject failure and always will be but not to be confused with social responsibility.
Maybe there should be a 'vote of no confidence' option on the ballot and that results in a clear out of all the incompetent clowns in each party. Then maybe we will start to get close to a political system that actually works for people.
You prove that what he is completely out of line with what labour should be.
We need to stop appealing to the right, or we only ever get options on the right. Your vote, as a tory voter - really isn't something labour should be trying for, at all - Why pick up one of you, who MAY vote for starman, and not labours supporters on the left, who treated right, WILL vote for labour?
We need to stop appealing to the right, or we only ever get options on the right. Your vote, as a tory voter - really isn't something labour should be trying for, at all - Why pick up one of you, who MAY vote for starman, and not labours supporters on the left, who treated right, WILL vote for labour?
Sir Keir has proven to be a disaster for the Labour Party
a party in severe decline greens will be the main opposition within 20 years if they insist on being run by the unions
Starmer is a charisma-free zone; a useless fence-sitter; a stuffed shirt bureaucrat.
Labour lurch from one loser to the next. Small wonder they suffered their worst defeat for 90 years at the last General Election and have remained out of power for 20 years.
Left wing politics are dead. Socialism has failed miserably wherever it's been tried, because it simply doesn't work as a methodology.
Labour lurch from one loser to the next. Small wonder they suffered their worst defeat for 90 years at the last General Election and have remained out of power for 20 years.
Left wing politics are dead. Socialism has failed miserably wherever it's been tried, because it simply doesn't work as a methodology.
Is there anybody in the Country who is in the least bit interested in what the failed Labour Party say or do?
Thanks Jeremy Corbyn "peacemaker in Ireland" LOL
Thanks Jeremy Corbyn "peacemaker in Ireland" LOL
Yes, in so far as the Labour Party under Corbyn made the current woeful excuse for a government the best option. We need a credible opposition....whoever that turns out to be.
Corbyn's sympathies with such as Irish republicans, Chagos Islanders, Kurds, Palestinians, Iranians, etc, and his hostility to NATO, IMF, the EU, White House, House of Saud, Knesset, etc, placed him firmly outside of neo-liberal/colonialist consensus, and, yes, he was a genuine threat to these warmongers' idea of national "security". In 2017, with Brexit settled 40% of voters sided with Corbyn.
Which Blair's project?
If by "charisma" you mean contempt for the electorate, lying, self-serving behaviour, then I suggest that they are, in fact, pretty similar.
He's the Steve interesting Davis of politics. No charisma, no drive. Tories are delighted
Are those critics the same people who called us to "support the leader" when the leader was Corbyn? Hypocrites indeed!
The party has elected Starmer with an overwhelming majority. The people are sick of Corbyn and his 3rd world socialism; they want real policies for the real world.
And the reason we have Johnson & Co is exactly Corbyn and the lunatics who chant his name like they see the messiah.
The party has elected Starmer with an overwhelming majority. The people are sick of Corbyn and his 3rd world socialism; they want real policies for the real world.
And the reason we have Johnson & Co is exactly Corbyn and the lunatics who chant his name like they see the messiah.
You dont do irony do you?
The whole point is that Starmer was a part of the right wing coup that betrayed Corbyn and the members -- yet now you want people to support him when he conspired to lose Labour an election -- strange fellow
The whole point is that Starmer was a part of the right wing coup that betrayed Corbyn and the members -- yet now you want people to support him when he conspired to lose Labour an election -- strange fellow
The problem for Labour (well, one of many) is that they've replaced Corbyn's 'third world socialism' for wokeism, another deeply unpopular, cult-like mantra that's similarly far removed from the British psyche.
They've had their chips, basically.
They've had their chips, basically.
The trouble is that the "overwhelming majority" of the party are now Momentum. The core membership have left in droves. I am one of them.
Project fear told us that Labour would spend a load of money.
Now the tories have splurged loads of money, knocking down forests of magic money trees and everything is alright.
Johnson has been implementing socialist policies over the last year and will continue to do so
Now the tories have splurged loads of money, knocking down forests of magic money trees and everything is alright.
Johnson has been implementing socialist policies over the last year and will continue to do so
Starmer isnt up to it though is he. You can define 'it' as you like.
Shame Starmer is such a weak , boring, person with a high pitched voice. Not really leader qualities.
Starmer was elected on a promise to increase corporation tax. A policy that is almost universally popular with the electorate. You don't know what you're talking about.
Don't know if its intentional or just that he's so beige as to be unnewsworthy, but I rarely hear of him. Corbyn was in the news everyday, mainly because they wanted rid of him, but at least he was in the conversation. Buck up or get out, Sir.
Throughout history it seems people want flamboyant charismatic leaders. Unfortunately they often prove to be nasty corrupt villains
"All politicians ever".
Nevermind the looney lefty activists, how about listening to the people? Labour have learnt nothing.
Trouble is, Corbyn opened the floodgates to the looney lefty fringe and now their membership is irrevocably infested.
Labour is nothing more than an irrelevant protest group, best ignored.
Labour is nothing more than an irrelevant protest group, best ignored.
Not listening to the people has never done the Tories any harm.
What Labour needs to learn is how to get the likes of Murdoch et al onside and do propaganda on their behalf.
What Labour needs to learn is how to get the likes of Murdoch et al onside and do propaganda on their behalf.
I think you are being disingenuous to the Labour party, I believe Keir and his team are trying to listen to the people.
This is just few people he sacked trying to spoil things out of spite.
This is just few people he sacked trying to spoil things out of spite.
The far left don’t feel at home under centrist Starmer.
The tories have purged any centrists and now only represent the fringe of society, because they have been stealing UKIP policies.
So starmer being centrist or slightly left of centre feels far left as the tories have gone full blown populist
The tories have purged any centrists and now only represent the fringe of society, because they have been stealing UKIP policies.
So starmer being centrist or slightly left of centre feels far left as the tories have gone full blown populist
Perhaps they should have been more critical a year ago, but as Sir Keir has often demonstrated, hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Wow this hys is about labour and yet you bring up boris, he must be living rent free in your head ??????
But do they, though? Or is it the case that they accept him and his lies and idiocy as a better option than anything Labour?
And who said the Tory Party is like a religious cult. Rachel Johnson. Leeching of the gullible. Ask shell fishermen.
The gullible say he lies but the the honest know that he does not which is why we vote for him.
...and still are. E.g. over vaccine approval and procurement, which we did while in transition. Everything they do is half truths, smoke and mirrors. I despise the Tories for what they have done in the last 10 years and under Thatcher. Labour will never get my vote while they remain so incompetent and Lib Dems won't get it as they have failed so badly since Kennedy.
It's not so much that they believe him, I think. It's more like they don't care. I think it's gone beyond truth or lies or competence when they judge him. Fandom's part of it, of course, and he knows which buttons to press. I also think he's enough of a blank canvas for people to project what they'd like him to think onto him and persuade themselves he actually thinks it.
It's interesting.
It's interesting.
Yes. Much of the Labour Left voted for him due to ten pledges he made.
The *very first* of those pledges included a commitment to "reverse the Tories’ cuts in corporation tax". The Tories have now decided it's the right time to do this themselves - and Starmer is opposing it.
Whatever you think of him, Corbyn or Labour's policies, that's obviously not a good look for a politician seeking trust.
The *very first* of those pledges included a commitment to "reverse the Tories’ cuts in corporation tax". The Tories have now decided it's the right time to do this themselves - and Starmer is opposing it.
Whatever you think of him, Corbyn or Labour's policies, that's obviously not a good look for a politician seeking trust.
If Momentum is unhappy then he's doing the right thing to make Labour electable. The only Labour leader to get Labour in power in the last 40 years has ignored the far left of the party.
It will be 50 years by the next general election. Since the party was formed only 3 Labour leaders have EVER won a majority.
You spelled 'crawled so far up Murdoch's jacksie he became a Godfather and a war criminal' wrong.
Yes but Blair led a Tory Lite Govt. We will go nowhere with Starmer or Dodds. We need to show a much stronger faith in Marxism !
And yet they still managed to reduce our living standards, pump up house prices, saddle us with obscene amounts of debt, hollow out the meaning of university, literally double the cost of the NHS to the taxpayer without actually improving it etc.
It's always a fun time at the start when it comes to socialists but once we saw enough of what they were doing to us long term it was good riddance.
It's always a fun time at the start when it comes to socialists but once we saw enough of what they were doing to us long term it was good riddance.
Except he is more popular with Lib Dem voters than Labour voters!
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1361284079891722242
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1361284079891722242
He was part of the Corbyn dynasty. He is one of them.
Sir Keir has proven to be a disaster for the Labour Party
That was the electorate's fault though, Corbyn was being true to Labour ideology.
Its fairly obvious that Labour still has many supporters of the Corbyn era. The problem for them is that they still haven't worked out the majority of the British electorate didn't and do not share their views.
Starmer is not inspirational for any faction - that requires charisma. He promised to sort out their anti Semitism problems, but has he? That's all gone very quiet lately.
Starmer is not inspirational for any faction - that requires charisma. He promised to sort out their anti Semitism problems, but has he? That's all gone very quiet lately.
Meanwhile islamophobia is rife in the right and no one seems to mind.
The anti Semism story went quite because the MSM haven’t anything to back it up with
The anti Semism story went quite because the MSM haven’t anything to back it up with
It's all gone quiet because it doesn't exist! It was only ever a stick to beat Corbyn. It was never a wide spread problem in Labour.
Still waiting for ONE example of this so called anti Semitism
Still waiting for ONE example of this so called anti Semitism
The Labour party's own investigation decided there was anti-semitism. I see we are into the left airbrushing history again
40% in 2017, mate, with over 60% of under 40's voting for 'hard left' Corbyn, despite a concerted media effort to portray him as a threat to national security (which he was to 'them', given his sympathies, as am I). Would have been at least the same in 2019 if not for Sir Bossy Cop's 2nd ref con. The brainwashed boomer babies won't be around forever. The future is ours.
When will the Labour Party rank and file learn when to keep quiet and allow a leader to settle in without the usual internal bickering and carping? If the membership truly wants to return to government it must unite behind its leadership and show itself to be worthy of election and mature enough to be trusted with government - which it isn't at present.
whatever Bradshaw says (who he?), KS is much of a loser as Ed was. #RecallConference asap last chance to ditch the entire muppet sh. cabinet before locals,Scots,etc. election disaster
And replace with whom??
It would have been surprising if supporters of Corbyn's brand of Labour hadn't felt miffed when a new leader came in and changed direction.
If anything it's a good sign that left wingers in Labour are unhappy with Keir Starmer's policies. He can and will purge these lunatics from the party, if he fails, so will Labour at the next GE.
If anything it's a good sign that left wingers in Labour are unhappy with Keir Starmer's policies. He can and will purge these lunatics from the party, if he fails, so will Labour at the next GE.
The Labour Party that gave us the NHS should do one final thing for this country: run on a platform of replacing FPTP with a fair system in which everyone's votes matter, then split up. Then we'd have coalition governments, representing majorities, instead of near-perpetual rule by Tories serving a large minority of reactionaries, occasionally interrupted when Labour's Tory-lite wing gains power.
"If anything it's a good sign that left wingers in Labour are unhappy"
Yes why should there be left wingers in the supposedly left wing party.
Telling about British ideas and how we have been told to think. If you were (and I have) to show Corbyn to your average person living in a Nordic country, they describe him as "Dull centre left Grandpa".
Here? ComiMarxiStalin wants to steal your money...
Yes why should there be left wingers in the supposedly left wing party.
Telling about British ideas and how we have been told to think. If you were (and I have) to show Corbyn to your average person living in a Nordic country, they describe him as "Dull centre left Grandpa".
Here? ComiMarxiStalin wants to steal your money...
Define "real vegan".
Sir Keir who is he? Mr anonymous, should be holding government to account but too busy contemplating his navel and worrying about the remaining members of Corbyn’s barmy army.
He's the Steve interesting Davis of politics. No charisma, no drive. Tories are delighted
Yet have won the last four general elections.
But they are in power. Oh and Davis won six world titles.
How so O wise one?
Labour only offer fence sitting or hindsight.
The elephant in the room is political parties. It's moronic to vote for a colour or flag. It's unfair our voting system does not allow change and hasn't since the 1900s.
The voting system we have was established by the likes of our current government to preserve power for the priveleliged. Of course they don’t want to change it.
Apart from the referendum held in 2011 regarding proportional representation ??
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vote_referendum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vote_referendum
We had a referendum on changing the voting system in 2011 when the LibDems were in the coalition government - we voted to keep it as it is
Therein lies the problem. This two party system is strangling the UK because it never offers the BEST solution, it merely offers political dogma of one description or another. The result is that we rarely get the best solution for whatever problem may face the country. Most people are either indoctrinated into voting a particular way or vote for the least worst option in their view.
Starmer was the wrong man to win back the red wall Mr 2nd Referendum was always going to struggle.
Labour have a increasingly hard time reuniting their as the Metropolitans and young graduates increasing despise Traditional working class people.
Good luck we need a effective opposition and Labour libdems greens etc are rapidly alienating too many ordinary people.
Labour have a increasingly hard time reuniting their as the Metropolitans and young graduates increasing despise Traditional working class people.
Good luck we need a effective opposition and Labour libdems greens etc are rapidly alienating too many ordinary people.
No, we don't despise our tabloid-indoctrinated grandparents- even though they benefitted immeasurably from post-war socialist policies and "Greed is Good" idiotology before pulling the social mobility ladder up on their kids and grandkids, forcing us to leave our hometowns to earn our poverty in the city. We just hope they pass peacefully, and quickly so we can undo all the damage they've done.
Many of these graduates are "working class" people who see through the flat caps and whippets Labour party view from the Islington elite. Parachuting a chosen by HQ candidate into "working class" areas because the locals were too thick in the opinion of party HQ hardly helps.
It was Corbyn and his 3rd world socialism that gave Labour the worst result ever.
Wow, what a hell of a leap, IT'S THE ELECTORATES FAULT!!! Just because the electorate didn't agree with, or want, Labour ideology we are at fault, lol, you couldn't make it up. You sir have just expressed your absolute contempt for we, the general public, or electorate!!!
Starmer speaks to the public like he is a lawyer presenting a case in court.
You aint going to gee up your core voters with such an approach.
But then Starmer isn't really Labour is he. Just a toned down Blairite.
You aint going to gee up your core voters with such an approach.
But then Starmer isn't really Labour is he. Just a toned down Blairite.
Indeed. The likes of you need a charlatan who talks nice ssit. You know, Corbyn, Johnson, Farage... That will get your vote.
That the "Tory Blair" Labour voters placed into No 10?
Own it.
Own it.
The biggest division in the Conservative Party has always been Europe. And that's over.
Some time in the future they will understand that they are supposed to represent the working classes
Shows how irrelevant the PLP are, Openselection is deeply needed to make the PLP truely representative of the membership and public at large and not some Neo Lib fantasy bubble
What has the public at large to do with it? Labours problem is the party membership doesn't represent the public, as you would expect. Their chosen policies don't represent the policies people support. You can't change people's view of the world to suit yours.
Somebody should tell him Socialism is rejected.
Not telling him is just too cruel
That's not true. Labour's brand of UK socialism is rejected. There's plenty of 'socialist' policy already in place - like the NHS for example.
Re : Moistness
"Nevermind the looney lefty activists, how about listening to the people ?"
Funny how when politicians do badly it's never because the people don't want what they're peddling isn't it ?
Their answer is always 'we didn't get our message across'.
Labour ... hatred of the working class and no policies at all.
"Nevermind the looney lefty activists, how about listening to the people ?"
Funny how when politicians do badly it's never because the people don't want what they're peddling isn't it ?
Their answer is always 'we didn't get our message across'.
Labour ... hatred of the working class and no policies at all.
The tories are making people poorer and their mates richer. Why are so many Tory others using food banks? Why are so many working class white kids struggljng at school? It’s been a Tory government for years and things keep getting worse.
It’s almost like it’s the tories fault
It’s almost like it’s the tories fault
They want everyone to wear caps and overalls, the people dont care what the bloke or woman earns up the road its what he can earn to feed his family. Socilism is the biggest poison, the person who works for themselves will try and pay the least tax and NI he can.
"Labour ... hatred of the working class and no policies at all."
... but the Tories don't? JRM, IDS.... LOL.
If you believe that then you have really swallowed the con, hook, line and sinker. The Tories have really pulled a fast one on this country. They must be laughing into their champagne glasses.
... but the Tories don't? JRM, IDS.... LOL.
If you believe that then you have really swallowed the con, hook, line and sinker. The Tories have really pulled a fast one on this country. They must be laughing into their champagne glasses.
The most telling thing is, he's been in the job for a year, but I'd have guessed 2 months, for all that I can remember he's had to say on anything. Disappointing, whether you are pro Labour or not. Every country needs a vocal opposition party to keep the government on its toes.
Contrary to popular tabloid-indoctrinated boomer-baby belief, the UK is not a democracy and maintains a controlled opposition in order to create the illusion of choice. 2015-20 was an aberration. The 'LibLabCon cabal' is restored, and once again it doesn't matter who you vote for, the friends of Jimmy Savile and Jeff Epstein win.
'Grassroots activists' - worked out so well for them under Corbyn.
They did enough to scare the pants of 'the establishment' and have all the names on Epstein's guest list run a relentless smear campaign for 4.5 years. If the Tories were subject to a fraction of the media scrutiny they doled out to "Corbynistas" they'd have fewer MPs than the Lib Dems. If they were held to the same standard as Corbyn, McDonnell or Abbott they'd be a proscribed organisation.
I think you'll find that's queefdom
Nor is there ever ANYTHING on BBC about why Starmer and Labour have done NOTHING about the independent report that said Labour is institutionally anti-semitic.Perhaps that IS something Starmer and Momentum do agree on,they seem to be diametrically opposed as far as economic/tax policies are concerned. But,what do you expect from the extreme Left,which has never been in favour of democracy.
Scotland has proportional representation. If the SNP gets a majority in Holyrood, it will be because a majority voted for them, which is more than can be said for the current Westminster government...43% ? With current polling, SNP would get over 90% of Holyrood seats with First Past the Post, like they have for Scottish seats at WM. FPtP is a double edge sword it seems.
I asked that question of a vegan once and was told, 'If it had a Mummy or Daddy I don't eat it, wear it or use it'. (Owned a lovely vintage car - full leather seating).
Labour WILL win the next general election, if, and only if, we totally eradicate the far left Corbynista Communists.
That’s it, keep sucking up that pile of establishment propaganda ??
Would dearly love to see a sycophant like you try to eradicate me.
Not if it's then replaced by even more wokeist, Identitarian nonsense & pandering to the demands of shouty minorities, which is where it's heading.
Labour CAN'T win a GE, not under any circumstance, primarily because the 'Progress/PeoplesVote/BetterTogether' wing lost Scotland in 2014/5, the Red Wall in 2019 and *then* decided that an English Unionist and "Remoaner Lefty human rights lawyer" was the ideal candidate to win them back, but also; boundary changes.
No, they really won't.
Removed
Somebody should tell him Socialism is rejected.
Starmer frustrates me because he isn't calling out the damage and chaos of Brexit in order to win back the Red Wall when really he should just be very honest and blunt about it all.
But criticising him for not calling for tax rises before we're even out of the pandemic is madness.
But criticising him for not calling for tax rises before we're even out of the pandemic is madness.
If Starmer tries to turn against Brexit, like the Lib Dems did, he will lose even more working class voters. He needs to embrace Brexit to make progress in the next election, because Brexit is going to be a great success. There is no 'chaos'.
"chaos of Brexit"?? What chaos is that then? The "chaos" that's failed to materialise even in a global pandemic??
I live in Kent and went down the M20 for the first time in ages last week., Mile after mile of contra-flow with half the motorway cordoned off for operation Brock (the truck park Kent was supposed to have become) All completely empty!! Even though haulage traffic is 95% of normal
I live in Kent and went down the M20 for the first time in ages last week., Mile after mile of contra-flow with half the motorway cordoned off for operation Brock (the truck park Kent was supposed to have become) All completely empty!! Even though haulage traffic is 95% of normal
The Pontification Party
Politics of Envy Party
Corbyn had his chance and failed, so his supporters need to get behind Starmer.
We need a decent opposition to hold Johnson and his cronies to account, infighting within the Opposition will not do that.
We need a decent opposition to hold Johnson and his cronies to account, infighting within the Opposition will not do that.
First there's the need to big up Starmer without insulting the Tories, though
Unlucky
Unlucky
Corbyn was failed by Starmer and his ilk. Most on Labour’s front bench have been rewarded for their disloyalty to Corbyn, their twice, democratically elected leader
It's what Corbyn stands for that's important. Many voted for Starmer on his 10 pledges. Don't know of many he looks like following through with. The insidious purging of left of centre party members is Orwellian. If the 'infighting' against the left of centre Corbyn policies hadn't worked so hard against Corbyn we'd already have a Labour government. Why isn't labour ahead in polls?
While Boris continues to push his pie in the sky nonsense for his Fairyland projects, Keir would do better by checking the many cases of wasteful use of billions by this Government,and by not backing them over Corporation Tax.
If tories increase Corporation tax it's what Labour wanted. If it's decreased it looks like the Government supports hard hit industry. Not a useful ploy. Difficult to attack a government wasting billions in a pandemic considering the billions Labour proposed wasting last election, free bees for all?
I've voted Labour all my life, I've never been so disheartened by what I'm seeing and hearing from the Labour Party. It's actually sickens me to watch Starmer and his cronies compromising their own principles trying to appeal to middle class voters, most of whom just don't get true Labour values and will only vote for the party who they think will line their pockets with the most money. Sigh.
I've never voted labour. Ever. Keir Starmer might however persuade me otherwise... and aren't I. a right centrist floating voter precisely the sort of person tat Labour needs to appeal to if it's to actually win an election??.
I understand what you say, but are these people middle class or do they just consider themselves middle class. The reality is that most voting is based on class.....or at least on what class we consider ourselves to be.
Would that be the "middle class" red wall in the North they are trying to win back??
I think you'll find Corbyn never had any problem appealing to wealthy middle class Guardian readers.
I think you'll find Corbyn never had any problem appealing to wealthy middle class Guardian readers.
You live in a past where clogs, shawls, whippets, pidgeons and cloth caps meant working class. Trilbies, bowlers, briefcase and brolly the middle class. Very Two Ronnies or 1922. The workers expect to have a chance to aspire to more than a council semi, walk to't pit and footy and fags on Saturday.
True Labour values are of the past, the "activists" dream of best forgotten dream of last century.
True Labour values are of the past, the "activists" dream of best forgotten dream of last century.
Let's tell it as it is. Starmer is just another Tony Blair: a self-serving Champaign socialist.
The lockdowns in this country have been disproportionately crucifying the poorest: the very people Starmer should care for. But he has staunchly supported lockdowns and even wanted them made tougher. His only reason for doing this is to give Boris enough rope to hang himself with come the next election
The lockdowns in this country have been disproportionately crucifying the poorest: the very people Starmer should care for. But he has staunchly supported lockdowns and even wanted them made tougher. His only reason for doing this is to give Boris enough rope to hang himself with come the next election
"disproportionately crucifying the poorest" (Hyperbole, much??) If lockdowns aren't strong enough, everyone starts howling that Covid is disproportionately killing the poor.
Not listening to the grassroots activists is a GOOD THING. Remember what happened when the "grassroots activists" took over?
Listen to the "grassroots activists" if you want to be in opposition for ever.
Listen to the "grassroots activists" if you want to be in opposition for ever.
Labour is unelectable under Starmer, because Brexit supporters remember his betrayal of the Referendum vote. Corbyn went from hero in 2017 to zero in 2019 on the back of his repudiation of democracy.
If by "charisma" you mean contempt for the electorate, lying, self-serving behaviour, then I suggest that they are, in fact, pretty similar.
I actually have seen crayons with more charisma. And more political ability. :)
This country desperately needs a better opposition than any faction of the Labour Party appears to be able to provide. The Tories, or something like the Tories, will always exist to represent the mean-spirited and reactionary part of the population. But forward-thinking progressives are poorly served.
"mean-spirited and reactionary part of the population. " ....you mean those with common sense!
Agreed. I just wish the Momentum lot would go back to the SWP where they all came from in the first place. What on earth is wrong with liberal social democracy? Far better than corrupt, selfish, face stamping Toryism any day.
Ubercurmudgeon post.
Nothing to see here. Move along.
Nothing to see here. Move along.
Starmer has been a v good opposition leader at times, the unions should be backing him up more instead of trying to play king maker
Therein lies the problem of the 'forward-thinking progressives'; always fire out an insult rather than explaining how their policies will be better.
I am a Tory voter and neither mean-spirited nor reactionary!
Just like many Labour voters are not momentum addicts or want far left socialist policies.
The vast majority of voters for both parties are centre ground and want a balance between capitalism and communism hence why parties who occupy the middle ground win.
This is why Labour loses as they continue to be drawn too far left.
Just like many Labour voters are not momentum addicts or want far left socialist policies.
The vast majority of voters for both parties are centre ground and want a balance between capitalism and communism hence why parties who occupy the middle ground win.
This is why Labour loses as they continue to be drawn too far left.
mean-spirited! My Mother, a Tory & not rich. Always looked after neighbours and saw they didn't go cold/hungry. One old lady lived next door to a retired Lab' Pit Deputy & he got free coal. None of it was given to anyone else even in the 1963 freeze! I would be sent with buckets of it & my Dad cut wood. I also took her the hot food which we ate! My Mother was taught this by her Father also a Tory!
There’s nothing progressive or forward thinking about snp , plaid, lab, Lib Dem who continually oppose a democratic vote and large parts of the Labour Party.
I’m amused by your assertion Tories n Tory voters are not progressive.
I’m amused by your assertion Tories n Tory voters are not progressive.
This is why we need Proportional Representation, so those factions can form their own party. It will be healthier for all sides.
Oh look; the usual far left nastiness coming to the fore, aimed at those who don't believe their discredited creed.
"Progressives" is a weasel word, used by the far left to disguise their real Marxist & Trotskyist selves.
"Progressives" is a weasel word, used by the far left to disguise their real Marxist & Trotskyist selves.
You obviously do not go into the pubs of the towns and villages in the Shires. There you will find the honest, decent folk of this country who are neither mean-spirited or reactionary and who realise that old fashioned conservatism is what they believe makes Britain such a great country.
This sort of comment represents why far left Labour get a bad name. Your comment is hateful and reactionary. It is wrong to say Tories are mean spirited, just because you disagree with them.
The problem, I feel is that the 'forward-thinking progressives' are split between Labour, Lib-Dems, Greens etc and nullify the vote. The right are very good at keeping power. Look at the deal making with Farage.
The only way to solve the dichotomy of 43% of the vote yielding an 80 seat majority is to have electoral reform with PR.
The only way to solve the dichotomy of 43% of the vote yielding an 80 seat majority is to have electoral reform with PR.
That mean spirited and reactionary part of the population generated a huge majority at the last GE. Quite a big part wasn't it?
Yet they have you here and don't pay you any attention, I wonder why!
I actually find Starmer's approach rather refreshing at this point. In a time of national crisis, I prefer that the Opposition are collaborative and not looking for cheap point-scoring with 20/20 hindsight. Labour is doomed though; half of its supporters are working-class Brexiteers, the other half are EU champagne socialists. Whatever Labour does, it will alienate a key proportion of its support.
Quite right. "Strident" is not what is needed at the time of the worst national crisis since WW2.
Totally agree Ted. There are factions in the Labour Party and factions in the Conservative party. I wonder why they don’t split off and form more new parties.
" I prefer that the Opposition are collaborative"
The opposition are there to hold to Government to account, not to get along with them.
Boris has had his head on the block for over a year with his handling of this pandemic but Labour have done absolutely nothing
The opposition are there to hold to Government to account, not to get along with them.
Boris has had his head on the block for over a year with his handling of this pandemic but Labour have done absolutely nothing
I assume 'collaborative and not looking for cheap point-scoring with 20/20 hindsight' is sarcasm?
Maybe Starmer should tell his non entity shadow cabinet then, they have done nothing but try to score political points. But Starmer has done himself no favours either as he looks and its not just my opinion to be saying anything that will get him votes hence the flip flop nickname
Apart from the referendum held in 2011 regarding proportional representation ??
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vote_referendum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vote_referendum
It wasn't on proportional representation, that vote was on the alternative vote. A system so baffling it was deliberately picked for that referendum, as the Tories knew half the country wouldn't understand it.
whatever Bradshaw says (who he?), KS is much of a loser as Ed was. #RecallConference asap last chance to ditch the entire muppet sh. cabinet before locals,Scots,etc. election disaster
Jeremy Corbyn was a far more effective leader than Kier Starmer. It's a wonder why Labour elected someone to lead their party who is so out of touch and far removed from those he is supposed to represent. Kier Starmer is unelectable for as far as I'm concerned. Even bumbling Boris is a far more attractive proposition than Sleepy Starmer. Overall we have a poor choice to choose from
Corbyn was a far more effective leader than Starmer ??
He lost two general elections.
He lost two general elections.
Jeremy Corbyn was a populist leader who, despite being the only politician who understood the scale of what needed to be done economically for the UK, failed to produce the coherent vision that would win the support of the majority of the country.
Most Tory voters would agree with your comments on Corbyn. He very effectively led his party into the desert. Blair took over the centre left, Corbyn handed the cenre left and more to the tories. While Labour pick at the carcass they're left with they become more unelectable by the hour. Starmer isn't the problem, the party is unmanageable, a series of factions pulling in different ways.
Somebody should tell him Socialism is rejected.
Got to agree there. People rarely appreciate such things until they are gone. Social housing, benefits, education.....the list goes on.
That'll be the NHS which the Conservatives not only planned but announced in 1944...
...so not socialist at all:
https://youtu.be/qyjbUK88CB4
...so not socialist at all:
https://youtu.be/qyjbUK88CB4
IMO I think he is a credible opposition to the Tories, who I usually vote for.
I am listening very carefully to what he and other parties are saying. We need to have a real choice when the next elections come up. Not just that of who seems the least worst option!
I am listening very carefully to what he and other parties are saying. We need to have a real choice when the next elections come up. Not just that of who seems the least worst option!
Yawn. Political corectness
Current FPTP system = least worse option . The system always has been and always will be defended by the 2 main political party’s. May not be fair to the electorate as a whole but we are not important .
Starmer speaks to the public like he is a lawyer presenting a case in court.
You aint going to gee up your core voters with such an approach.
But then Starmer isn't really Labour is he. Just a toned down Blairite.
You aint going to gee up your core voters with such an approach.
But then Starmer isn't really Labour is he. Just a toned down Blairite.
Me? Soft right. Always voted Tory. Undecided about Brexit, like Sunak, don't particularly object to Johnson, averse to Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott types. I couldn't bring myself to vote for Blair or Brown. As I get older my leanings are getting softer as our children have their effect and the right gets more loony. It's me who the Labour policy makers should hunt down and convince. Starmer? Hmmm?
I'm pretty much the same... centrist right, completely turned off by Corbyn and Abbot but even more turned off by the nutters in the Conservative Party. Keir Starmer would potentially get me to vote Labour for the first time in my life so long as he continues to stand up to the nutters in his own party.
It’s the “grassroots activists” and the unions that are the problem, not Starmer. The Loonies have at it in for the party since the 70’s.
In the 1970s and 1980s, we have the "Loony Left".
Now we have "the Woke".
Funny how history has a habit of repeating itself - and thereby ensuring a Conservative government in perpetuity.
Now we have "the Woke".
Funny how history has a habit of repeating itself - and thereby ensuring a Conservative government in perpetuity.
Make no mistake, Keir Starmer has what it takes to be a very successful Prime Minister.
During the pandemic he has acted as one of the few grown-ups in the room and struck exactly the right balance of support and criticism of the government. Something the brattish Tory backbenchers have notably failed to do.
When the pandemic is over you will see why the Tories are afraid of him.
During the pandemic he has acted as one of the few grown-ups in the room and struck exactly the right balance of support and criticism of the government. Something the brattish Tory backbenchers have notably failed to do.
When the pandemic is over you will see why the Tories are afraid of him.
By the time the pandemic is over, Starmer won't be leading Labour.
Starmer speaks to the public like he is a lawyer presenting a case in court.
You aint going to gee up your core voters with such an approach.
But then Starmer isn't really Labour is he. Just a toned down Blairite.
You aint going to gee up your core voters with such an approach.
But then Starmer isn't really Labour is he. Just a toned down Blairite.
Even when the BBC hands Starmer a HYS all of his very own
Posters just want to talk about Boris.
Posters just want to talk about Boris.
Ouch that's gotta hurt
No matter what the loonie lefties of Labour or the equally loony righties of the conservatives claim, the vast majority of voters want a roughly centralist government not beholden to the unions or the Confederation of British Industries. If Starmer had been a Tory, he might have led an acceptable government.
It's tough for KS: he's stuck between a PM who will shamelessly do whatever is popular with the majority, and a left wing of his own party completely out of touch with reality.
It doesn't help that he's quite boring as well.
It doesn't help that he's quite boring as well.
SKS should be brilliant, but he just isn't! He is trying to appease both sides which makes him come across as willing to say anything to win voters (suddenly brandishing the flag was frankly embarrassing). And, despite the fact it shouldn't matter, his lack of personality and charisma is an issue. Love him or loathe him, BJ has both which means people know who he is.
You mean people like that Boris is a serial liar?
Absolutely on the money. Excellent summary.
Even when the BBC hands Starmer a HYS all of his very own
Posters just want to talk about Boris.
Posters just want to talk about Boris.
The Bank of England is the one holding almost all the new pandemic debt. Hundreds of billions. They printed the money to buy it.
The government owes the pandemic 'debt' to itself.
Any excuses to raise taxes are just that - dishonest excuses. Labour should point this out and not follow them down the austerity rabbit hole.
The government owes the pandemic 'debt' to itself.
Any excuses to raise taxes are just that - dishonest excuses. Labour should point this out and not follow them down the austerity rabbit hole.
The government saying "we're in debt and need austerity" is a bit like my wife borrowing £10k from me, then going to our kids and saying "we're in a lot of debt, we can't afford your school fees this year".
Ridiculous isn't it?
Ridiculous isn't it?
Oh Timmy - so deluded. Labour will never win by being Tory Light and that appears to be all Keir has to offer.
Not with the disaster Dodds in tow
This country desperately needs a better opposition than any faction of the Labour Party appears to be able to provide. The Tories, or something like the Tories, will always exist to represent the mean-spirited and reactionary part of the population. But forward-thinking progressives are poorly served.
No, what he means is anyone who disagrees with him.
He's been on HYS for years and his view is anyone who doesn't share his view is simply wrong.
Democracy, you can't beat it, can you?
He's been on HYS for years and his view is anyone who doesn't share his view is simply wrong.
Democracy, you can't beat it, can you?
"mean-spirited and reactionary part of the population. " ....you mean those with common sense!"
No he means "the majority that I sneer at and look down on as they are not as superior, forward thinking and progressive as (enlightened, noble) me!!"
No he means "the majority that I sneer at and look down on as they are not as superior, forward thinking and progressive as (enlightened, noble) me!!"
No, they clearly mean the tabloid indoctrinated boomer babies who've never had a thought that wasn't put in their empty head by a foreign billionaire.
Exactly Ant! Not just the common sense that voted in a one trick pony (and not a good one) government that has presided over 120, 000 deaths, but the same common sense that involves you being able to say that they are doing a great job. I'm just thankful that the rest of us have got all you people with common sense to keep eejits like us on the straight and narrow!
Make no mistake, Keir Starmer has what it takes to be a very successful Prime Minister.
During the pandemic he has acted as one of the few grown-ups in the room and struck exactly the right balance of support and criticism of the government. Something the brattish Tory backbenchers have notably failed to do.
When the pandemic is over you will see why the Tories are afraid of him.
During the pandemic he has acted as one of the few grown-ups in the room and struck exactly the right balance of support and criticism of the government. Something the brattish Tory backbenchers have notably failed to do.
When the pandemic is over you will see why the Tories are afraid of him.
Starmer frustrates me because he isn't calling out the damage and chaos of Brexit in order to win back the Red Wall when really he should just be very honest and blunt about it all.
But criticising him for not calling for tax rises before we're even out of the pandemic is madness.
But criticising him for not calling for tax rises before we're even out of the pandemic is madness.
Sir Bossy Cop is as much an undercover agent as the rapists he defended as DPP. His/Blair's entire strategy involves prostrating himself before the court & purging progressives in a futile effort to prove the Labour Party is no longer a threat to the establishment. Won't change the fact that despite 24/7 MSM lies 40% of the public voted for a threat to *their* national security though. Tick tock.
I actually find Starmer's approach rather refreshing at this point. In a time of national crisis, I prefer that the Opposition are collaborative and not looking for cheap point-scoring with 20/20 hindsight. Labour is doomed though; half of its supporters are working-class Brexiteers, the other half are EU champagne socialists. Whatever Labour does, it will alienate a key proportion of its support.
What happened after WW2? Nationalisation, full employment, the Welfare State and the most Socialist government this country has had.
What you're proposing after COVID-19 - Wealth divide increasing, people working and having to use food banks, Cabinet Ministers freely allowed to unlawfully award contracts.
Save the WW2 flag waving nonsense if you're actually advocating the exact opposite.
What you're proposing after COVID-19 - Wealth divide increasing, people working and having to use food banks, Cabinet Ministers freely allowed to unlawfully award contracts.
Save the WW2 flag waving nonsense if you're actually advocating the exact opposite.
Why a quick nuclear bomb would burn away all virus's
Corbyn had his chance and failed, so his supporters need to get behind Starmer.
We need a decent opposition to hold Johnson and his cronies to account, infighting within the Opposition will not do that.
We need a decent opposition to hold Johnson and his cronies to account, infighting within the Opposition will not do that.
Define "insulting".