Volvo Cars to go fully electric by 2030
02/03/2021 | news | business | 569
The Swedish firm is to phase out all models with internal combustion engines over the next few years.
1
02/03/2021 10:14:11 5 2
bbc
Wow - this story has been live for an hour and there isn't a venomous argument in the comments about petrol or electric being the devil!
5
02/03/2021 10:27:38 17 11
bbc
Electric is the devil!
In all seriousness, the future is not electric. From the horrific mining process to the inability to do anything but bury batteries back into the ground at end of life, and the huge cost of new infrastructure in between.
Use the forecourt infrastructure we have now to promote hydrogen alternatives - limitless resource and provided energy sources are clean - zero emissions
2
02/03/2021 10:18:16 4 3
bbc
Seems reasonable to me, along as the infrastructure is in place to support charging. In additional to being as affordable as petrol diesel cars.
22
02/03/2021 10:45:47 8 1
bbc
I know it will be argued that costs will come down. But electric cars are ridiculously expensive, and that's with massive taxation incentives in their favour.

Once the majority are driving electric, the revenue model will have to change to replace fuel duty and road fund licence - so private travel will become prohibitively expensive for many.
34
02/03/2021 10:53:44 1 0
bbc
I live in Wandsworth, which has the best electric car infrastructure in the UK. It's easier and cheaper to have an electric car here already, so it is doable.

That said, it's not practical to have a car in Wandsworth anyway.
3
02/03/2021 10:26:11 5 5
bbc
9 years for the technology to improve so that electric cars can cover longer (300 mile+) distances reliably and without charging?

Or are we going to have to adapt to a lifestyle where journies will have to be planned in 150-200 mile sections with 3-4 hour stopovers?
8
02/03/2021 10:32:44 7 2
bbc
What % of journeys that you (or an average Briton) makes are more than 200 miles? Aside from HGVs, I'd be shocked if the number is >10% and wouldn't surprised if it was <1%.
13
02/03/2021 10:35:43 1 1
bbc
Look at battery technology 9 yrs ago. Charging tech is developing at very fast speeds as more manufacturers adopt electric. I'm not saying electric cars are the answer and there are question marks about true green credentials but for a lot of people, day to day, even say 250 miles is more than most people would need. There are lots of developments in battery tech coming through in next few yrs.
51
02/03/2021 11:04:23 0 1
bbc
Solid State batteries are expected to arrive in the next 5 years or so, so in 9 or 10 should be available in most automotive applications. These should provide at least double the capacity for the same size, and recharge times in minutes rather than hours. So 600+ miles and 10 minute recharges? It's possible and will be the game changer.

Current tech will still work fine for 95% of journeys!
4
02/03/2021 10:26:30 9 4
bbc
Nine years to get all that infrastructure in place, upgrade the grid, improve capacity of the grid and continue to rape the planet by get all those rare earth materials together. Basically.

But, ideologically it is a great idea, and removing fumes on the street is a wonderful aim.

Just that it's really moving the source of pollution

A massive debate to be had: HYS is not the right place for it
1
02/03/2021 10:14:11 5 2
bbc
Wow - this story has been live for an hour and there isn't a venomous argument in the comments about petrol or electric being the devil!
5
02/03/2021 10:27:38 17 11
bbc
Electric is the devil!
In all seriousness, the future is not electric. From the horrific mining process to the inability to do anything but bury batteries back into the ground at end of life, and the huge cost of new infrastructure in between.
Use the forecourt infrastructure we have now to promote hydrogen alternatives - limitless resource and provided energy sources are clean - zero emissions
9
02/03/2021 10:32:48 5 0
bbc
For this to work, hydrogen as a fuel would need to created from renewable processes. At the moment, it is not, and this is the stumbling block that is preventing using hydrogen as an alternative to fossil fuels.
12
02/03/2021 10:35:38 6 0
bbc
Of course, no mining at all will be required to build hydrogen fuelled cars...the steel etc will just spontaneously appear out of nowhere.
20
02/03/2021 10:45:03 6 3
bbc
Hydrogen is too late, the clue is that Elon Musk doesn't offer a Hydrogen version. Electric is the future for EV's...
23
02/03/2021 10:46:24 7 4
bbc
Untrue rubbish. Batteries are not 'buried in the ground' at the end of their life, they are recycled. New cars have battery warranties for at least 8 years and 100,000 miles to retain 70% capacity.

Hydrogen is not 'limitless' in any way. To create it needs 50 litres of water per tank and vast energy to split it. It is a last gasp by fossil fuel companies to retain control.
37
02/03/2021 10:55:39 5 1
bbc
Recent studies prove that all the anti-EV "environmental" arguments are rubbish - ICE cars (which will include hydrogen) produce *at least* 300 times the amount of pollutants over their complete lifecycle as EVs do. EVs are an order of magnitude more efficient than ICE - including hydrogen. Fuel production uses an order of magnitude more cobalt than battery production. Etc.
249
02/03/2021 13:05:24 1 0
bbc
Electric is the devil? Other then an oil refinery how else do you think hydrogen is created?
6
02/03/2021 10:27:57 35 7
bbc
Intresting how many car manufacturers and govt are pushing for their citizens to drive electric cars but no mention of making HGV lorries or buses renounce the combustion engine.... oh and how is the generating of all this required electricity to be produced ?? seems we are being asked to change but nothing about govt plans for infrastructure to cope...
68
02/03/2021 11:14:56 9 4
bbc
I am not one way or the other on this (my personal view is that a hybrid with electric only range of 40 miles would be overall best for now as one size doesn't fit all), but the average age of a car in the UK is 8.2 years - so approx a total life of 16.4 years. It's likely with covid that number will now grow. That gives about 20 years to get the infrastucture in place which doesn't seem insane.
70
02/03/2021 11:15:24 2 0
bbc
When I did get the bus to work in London pre-lockdown, it was 100% electric bus as are many in my area.
71
02/03/2021 11:15:38 1 2
bbc
There is a move towards HGV's to be hydrogen fueled as the weight of batteries required to get a decent range means that they won't be able to carry as much weight in goods. But like the move to electric, its all slow and expensive with limited infrastructure. I suppose the same goes for buses (H2 better in principle than batteries for refuelling and loads).
114
02/03/2021 11:38:23 1 2
bbc
National Grid doesnt see a problem because their scenarios involve a lot of hydrogen. Yep go figure
154
02/03/2021 12:02:29 1 2
bbc
Check out the Tesla Semi.
260
ljs
02/03/2021 13:15:27 3 0
bbc
HGV, ships and jet aircraft produce the VAST majority of transport pollution and the ONLY green way to power them is liquid hydrogen.

Electric vehicles are just a technological dead end and will be banned once we have to dispose of all the used batteries.
339
02/03/2021 14:54:46 0 0
bbc
There are already Busses that are totally Electric. Don't discount Hydrogen as another Alternative fuel to Electric. Overnight wind turbine power could generate plenty of Hyrogen.
Also - what about when the Govt decides that it will ban the use of Gas Boilers. Hydrogen needs to be part of the future energy/fuel mix.
453
02/03/2021 22:33:22 0 0
bbc
according to the national grid, 6.5GW. others say more, but we currently produce 40GW. however we wont be at peak electric car until 2040 so plenty of time to build a grid to support that.
7
02/03/2021 10:29:10 4 6
bbc
This seems to be a weekly topic...............

It's going to happen : otherwise the manufacturers would not be making these committments.

Get over yourselves.
11
02/03/2021 10:32:17 5 7
bbc
AH, but the oil industry 'lobbyists' have to keep trotting out their misinformation!
24
02/03/2021 10:47:44 2 0
bbc
An awful lot of progress in terms of cost and infrastructure will be required for this to "happen", both in terms of electric vehicles themselves, and in terms of the public transport systems required to fill the gaps. Don't be too shocked if 2030 turns out to be an aspiration with 2040 the reality.

We'll get there eventually.
3
02/03/2021 10:26:11 5 5
bbc
9 years for the technology to improve so that electric cars can cover longer (300 mile+) distances reliably and without charging?

Or are we going to have to adapt to a lifestyle where journies will have to be planned in 150-200 mile sections with 3-4 hour stopovers?
8
02/03/2021 10:32:44 7 2
bbc
What % of journeys that you (or an average Briton) makes are more than 200 miles? Aside from HGVs, I'd be shocked if the number is >10% and wouldn't surprised if it was <1%.
19
02/03/2021 10:36:05 2 1
bbc
The oil industry 'lobbyists' conveniently forget that the vast majority of drivers rarely do more than short local journeys.
39
02/03/2021 10:55:45 0 0
bbc
Yep, 40% of car journeys are less than 2 miles, (Source the AA)
92
02/03/2021 11:27:59 0 0
bbc
The point of the original post was probably lost in the black and white of the internet (and a lack of good English), it was less of a negative point of view and more of a hopeful one that 300+ mile ranges will happen!

Yes, it is a small %age of our journeys and we already have a small electric for the local trips. I just hope that there will be the ability for it to cater for the longer ones!
5
02/03/2021 10:27:38 17 11
bbc
Electric is the devil!
In all seriousness, the future is not electric. From the horrific mining process to the inability to do anything but bury batteries back into the ground at end of life, and the huge cost of new infrastructure in between.
Use the forecourt infrastructure we have now to promote hydrogen alternatives - limitless resource and provided energy sources are clean - zero emissions
9
02/03/2021 10:32:48 5 0
bbc
For this to work, hydrogen as a fuel would need to created from renewable processes. At the moment, it is not, and this is the stumbling block that is preventing using hydrogen as an alternative to fossil fuels.
316
Lee
02/03/2021 14:34:00 1 1
bbc
yes it is - ever wondered why you see wind turbines that are't turning on a windy day? It's because there isn't consumer demand for their electricity, and the grid can;t store it, so instead the're switched off.
But there are projects to use the unwanted electricity to create hydrogen. This can then create electricity when needed
10
02/03/2021 10:34:18 105 44
bbc
It is hard to see how producing millions of energy intensive, environmentally damaging batteries is going to be any better globally. It seems to be just shifting the source of the emissions.
30
02/03/2021 10:51:58 46 22
bbc
Better the efficiency of large scale, centralised energy generators than have millions of smaller, hugely inefficient energy generators on the road at any one time in the form of ICE cars. Leaps in environmental improvements and efficiency in the centralised energy sources is automatically and immediately transferred to the population instead of waiting for them to buy new cars
47
02/03/2021 10:59:50 25 8
bbc
Buckyohare: you're talking nonsense, electric cars use far far less recourses than fossil fuel cars:

https://www.transportenvironment.org/publications/batteries-vs-oil-comparison-raw-material-needs

And that will only improve as we get more efficient at making and recycling them.

They also do not poison the air you are breathing.
50
02/03/2021 10:55:11 13 8
bbc
You are not a scientist are you?
158
02/03/2021 12:05:58 6 2
bbc
Battery vehicle batteries (BEVs) are no more environmentally damaging that ICE batteries, they are both large , contain alot of valuable materials and are recycled close to 100%. BEVs are massively more efficient than ICE, even fueled by coal generated electricity they cause less CO2 and other emissions.
The energy intensity of battery vehicle mfr is now the same as combustion ones.
221
vk
02/03/2021 12:44:26 3 2
bbc
Get rid of your mobile phone and go back to a landline, turn off your router and take off any watches. You shouldn't be on a computer either, so what are youd oing here? All these things use more batteries than would be required for BEV cars which are 100 times more efficient than burning ancient forests and dinsosaurs.
275
02/03/2021 13:42:00 4 1
bbc
This is not a hypothetical and hasn't been for years.

Producing an electric car battery costs a tiny fraction of the carbon of an internal combustion engine.
284
02/03/2021 13:49:07 0 3
bbc
Petrol from air is proven technology. Use solar energy to combine CO2 and H2O to petrol (giving off O2 in the process). Then reburn this fuel to puit the CO2 and H20 back in the atmosphere. Solar energy conversion to something really useful. (Incl cash for Africa etc. AND works where there are no cables or stable electricity supply.
301
02/03/2021 14:10:23 3 1
bbc
Have a look at Lithium-ion phosphate batteries

“New electric car battery is cheap, charges quickly and makes any vehicle ‘drive like a Porsche’, engineers say”

“Battery has self-heating technology that speeds up charging time and cuts out the need for expensive materials”

https://inews.co.uk/news/environment/electric-car-battery-new-cheap-charge-ev-vehicle-drive-like-porsche-834190/amp
326
02/03/2021 14:47:26 0 0
bbc
Yes, shifting it from in your face to a factory, where they can control it!
345
02/03/2021 14:56:45 1 2
bbc
Here's what some people who have actually looked into this have found, rather than just spouting rubbish: "Mining for electric car batteries ‘hundreds of times’ better than petrol car emission cycles"

https://electrek.co/2021/03/01/mining-electric-car-batteries-hundreds-of-times-better-than-petrol-car-emission-cycles/
486
03/03/2021 08:11:15 0 0
bbc
Petrol and diesel production and subsequent consumption (i.e. setting fire to it) are far more damaging. Also, the petrol or diesel can be used once. One time only. You spend a fortune on it, it requires all sorts of hideous chemicals to be produced, then you burn it. Once.

A battery can be used for years, and then re-used, and then recycled. There is no comparison.
510
03/03/2021 10:30:59 0 0
bbc
No, all the research shows that the overall environmental impact is lower.
524
03/03/2021 11:04:19 0 0
bbc
yeah hydrogen is the future
535
03/03/2021 11:59:53 0 0
bbc
simple- global warming will cause catastrophe for millions if not billions. Batteries may be environmentally damaging locally, but will not be on the same scale as fossil fuels.
7
02/03/2021 10:29:10 4 6
bbc
This seems to be a weekly topic...............

It's going to happen : otherwise the manufacturers would not be making these committments.

Get over yourselves.
11
02/03/2021 10:32:17 5 7
bbc
AH, but the oil industry 'lobbyists' have to keep trotting out their misinformation!
5
02/03/2021 10:27:38 17 11
bbc
Electric is the devil!
In all seriousness, the future is not electric. From the horrific mining process to the inability to do anything but bury batteries back into the ground at end of life, and the huge cost of new infrastructure in between.
Use the forecourt infrastructure we have now to promote hydrogen alternatives - limitless resource and provided energy sources are clean - zero emissions
12
02/03/2021 10:35:38 6 0
bbc
Of course, no mining at all will be required to build hydrogen fuelled cars...the steel etc will just spontaneously appear out of nowhere.
3
02/03/2021 10:26:11 5 5
bbc
9 years for the technology to improve so that electric cars can cover longer (300 mile+) distances reliably and without charging?

Or are we going to have to adapt to a lifestyle where journies will have to be planned in 150-200 mile sections with 3-4 hour stopovers?
13
02/03/2021 10:35:43 1 1
bbc
Look at battery technology 9 yrs ago. Charging tech is developing at very fast speeds as more manufacturers adopt electric. I'm not saying electric cars are the answer and there are question marks about true green credentials but for a lot of people, day to day, even say 250 miles is more than most people would need. There are lots of developments in battery tech coming through in next few yrs.
14
02/03/2021 10:38:47 2 4
bbc
We won't need all infrastructure completed in 9 years, what a daft thing to say. From 2030, all new cars will be electric and there will still be 99.9% ICE cars on the road. It'll then drop steadily over the following 10 years. The success or failure of this depends on the Government approach, if they go great guns to do it themselves, investing billions then it definitely won't work!
15
02/03/2021 10:39:12 4 3
bbc
I'm not sure how realistic this is, but it's ambitious and (seemingly) well intentioned.

Good luck to them.
16
02/03/2021 10:41:25 6 5
bbc
"Volvo Cars is only going to sell electric vehicles by 2030"

Hardly news, you won't be able to by ICE cars in the UK at all by that time...
137
02/03/2021 11:50:22 0 3
bbc
You've missed the point, there are only 11 countries that are going to ban ICE cars. It's the fact they are doing it to all markets that is the big driver. Other than Electric only brands, Volvo is the first to committee to this.
151
02/03/2021 12:00:09 0 0
bbc
If this is passed into law.
17
02/03/2021 10:34:20 29 11
bbc
In implementing these green ambitions the eco-crowd have overlooked many important points. The world quite literally has to be dug up in order to lay all the cabling to deliver the electricity. What manufacturing is required to produce the massive amount of cable, ie. plastic insulation/cladding for the cables? What is going to generate the gigantic amount of electricity to power the vehicles?
78
02/03/2021 11:18:39 6 18
bbc
In the end we will have local solar and wind and more local battery storage systems. No big power stations needed. This is already here on a smaller scale.
337
02/03/2021 14:52:50 0 3
bbc
Hilarious rant
356
02/03/2021 15:14:13 0 1
bbc
If masses of people are going to be working from home - there won't need to be as many cars required.
386
02/03/2021 16:02:02 1 1
bbc
it's a lot easier to put in a charging station than it is to put in a petrol station. Petrol stations require a huge amount of work re underground tanks not to mention the decommissioning costs. if you go to the North of scotland you will find it easier to get a charging point than a petrol station in many rural areas.

A 50kw charger is no different from supplying the power for a house.
496
03/03/2021 08:38:26 0 0
bbc
The cabling already exists in every building with an electricity supply, nothing new required, plug the supplied charger into a standard three pin socket!
509
03/03/2021 10:30:45 0 0
bbc
When you say eco-crowd it says you don't have any interests in the future of humans on our own planet. The problems you mention are just engineering problems to be solved, we do this everyday.
18
02/03/2021 10:34:53 5 6
bbc
BEVs are the future. Crude oil is filthy stuff, and so much pollution is caused by it. Hydrogen is a red herring, releases more CO2 in production than ICE cars make. Plus check out the price of hydrogen cars. Oh, and there is nowhere to fill them up. WE have to embrace BEVs as the future. The technology is moving rapidly, they get better all the time.
32
02/03/2021 10:52:16 4 1
bbc
Yes in the case of hyundai its going very fast back to the manufacturer for batteries that don't burst into flames.
33
02/03/2021 10:53:44 2 2
bbc
Where do you charge up when you live in a high density urban area where you're lucky if you can park within 50m of your house?
Oh so private carpark during the day where you'll pay 3 x more for electricity than you do at home
Of course the well off with driveways will be able to charge at home cheaply

Hydrogen is the future, will get cheaper & cleaner
52
02/03/2021 11:04:40 1 1
bbc
Rare Earth Minerals are used in electric battery production, they all need mining which generates tons of waste. Hydrogen is far cleaner and if you use renewables and newer methods no CO2 is produced.
81
02/03/2021 11:23:01 0 1
bbc
The idea with H2 is to produce it from surplus electricity from renewable sources when we have more power than is needed. Although not an efficient way to do things its effectively storing energy that would otherwise be wasted. As we get more and more power from wind we will get more and more chances to store H2. How we use it (in cars or to 'sweeten' natural gas) is another topic.
8
02/03/2021 10:32:44 7 2
bbc
What % of journeys that you (or an average Briton) makes are more than 200 miles? Aside from HGVs, I'd be shocked if the number is >10% and wouldn't surprised if it was <1%.
19
02/03/2021 10:36:05 2 1
bbc
The oil industry 'lobbyists' conveniently forget that the vast majority of drivers rarely do more than short local journeys.
41
02/03/2021 10:57:16 1 1
bbc
Not a oil industry lobbyist but I do under normal circumstances make 250 mile round trips about ten times per year.

I would be interested in a PHEV option with a range of 30 miles for commuting where I can switch to electric in towns but the eco worriers keep wanting to kill off the sensible option.
5
02/03/2021 10:27:38 17 11
bbc
Electric is the devil!
In all seriousness, the future is not electric. From the horrific mining process to the inability to do anything but bury batteries back into the ground at end of life, and the huge cost of new infrastructure in between.
Use the forecourt infrastructure we have now to promote hydrogen alternatives - limitless resource and provided energy sources are clean - zero emissions
20
02/03/2021 10:45:03 6 3
bbc
Hydrogen is too late, the clue is that Elon Musk doesn't offer a Hydrogen version. Electric is the future for EV's...
21
02/03/2021 10:45:36 5 5
bbc
Yawn, yawn, yawn! - why not open some HYSs on some interesting stories? BBC still running scared of its audience?
25
02/03/2021 10:48:46 6 2
bbc
Not interested? Then what are you doing here? Fade away, my friend.
2
02/03/2021 10:18:16 4 3
bbc
Seems reasonable to me, along as the infrastructure is in place to support charging. In additional to being as affordable as petrol diesel cars.
22
02/03/2021 10:45:47 8 1
bbc
I know it will be argued that costs will come down. But electric cars are ridiculously expensive, and that's with massive taxation incentives in their favour.

Once the majority are driving electric, the revenue model will have to change to replace fuel duty and road fund licence - so private travel will become prohibitively expensive for many.
42
02/03/2021 10:57:29 0 1
bbc
Considering the majority won't be able to charge at home
The Gov will probably cream off some of the profits car parks make charging 3x more for electricity than you would at home
45
02/03/2021 10:59:04 0 1
bbc
Lithium prices are going up. As that is the major expense of the cars the prices will go up.

There's a limit on how much charge a kg of lithium can carry and we are close to it.
5
02/03/2021 10:27:38 17 11
bbc
Electric is the devil!
In all seriousness, the future is not electric. From the horrific mining process to the inability to do anything but bury batteries back into the ground at end of life, and the huge cost of new infrastructure in between.
Use the forecourt infrastructure we have now to promote hydrogen alternatives - limitless resource and provided energy sources are clean - zero emissions
23
02/03/2021 10:46:24 7 4
bbc
Untrue rubbish. Batteries are not 'buried in the ground' at the end of their life, they are recycled. New cars have battery warranties for at least 8 years and 100,000 miles to retain 70% capacity.

Hydrogen is not 'limitless' in any way. To create it needs 50 litres of water per tank and vast energy to split it. It is a last gasp by fossil fuel companies to retain control.
7
02/03/2021 10:29:10 4 6
bbc
This seems to be a weekly topic...............

It's going to happen : otherwise the manufacturers would not be making these committments.

Get over yourselves.
24
02/03/2021 10:47:44 2 0
bbc
An awful lot of progress in terms of cost and infrastructure will be required for this to "happen", both in terms of electric vehicles themselves, and in terms of the public transport systems required to fill the gaps. Don't be too shocked if 2030 turns out to be an aspiration with 2040 the reality.

We'll get there eventually.
21
02/03/2021 10:45:36 5 5
bbc
Yawn, yawn, yawn! - why not open some HYSs on some interesting stories? BBC still running scared of its audience?
25
02/03/2021 10:48:46 6 2
bbc
Not interested? Then what are you doing here? Fade away, my friend.
26
02/03/2021 10:49:47 8 0
bbc
The biggest challenge for the manufacture of Electric Cars is the battery technology and the sourcing and production of Lithium in a safe and environmental manner. Also the recycling of used batteries will need to be carefully considered. I am sure responsible manufactures like Volvo will be looking at the environmental impact carefully.
65
02/03/2021 11:07:37 5 9
bbc
A company in Scandinavia claims to be near cracking the recycling issue. BEVs are the future, the technology is moving at pace. Pity the German manufacturers got caught out by backing dirty diesel and are now behind the curve on technology!
74
02/03/2021 11:15:39 3 1
bbc
Do you not think disposing of ICE problems and getting oil out of the ground is a much bigger issue than electric. Batteries can be recycled and there is no lifetime of oil related disposal. Electric motors are easily rebuilt which has been already done in industry forever.
27
02/03/2021 10:50:33 0 2
bbc
Volvo is owned by Geely of China so access to batteries is easier as China will be the leader.
31
02/03/2021 10:52:02 7 1
bbc
It literally says in the article "Last month, Volvo abandoned plans to merge with Chinese car giant Geely."

So, no.
28
02/03/2021 10:50:33 5 4
bbc
I’m all for electric, they’re cheap to run and fun to drive. But will all of us driving zero emission vehicles stop the Greens and the LibDems from pedestrianising entire sections of our inner cities? I don’t think so.
53
Bob
02/03/2021 11:05:01 8 3
bbc
The dumb thing is the drive to pedestrianise high streets and city centres can often make things worse.

Our local council is pushing to do such. It will mean that to go from one side of town to the other you have to drive a huge detour.

Do you clean up the high street? Sure. But you're polluting more overall.

Green folk tend to focus on the immediate issue and never the bigger picture.
29
02/03/2021 10:51:37 27 10
bbc
Unless we're going to a future where only the well off, those with their own driveway have personal vehicles & every one else uses public transport or cycles/walks

Pure EVs are pointless
Far too much of the population live in high density urban areas where they can't charge overnight
Will have to park somewhere during the day to charge & pay 3 x what their home electricity is.
38
02/03/2021 10:55:40 7 22
bbc
Still cheaper to run than diesel, even at three times the price of home electricity. But it won’t be long before you’ll be able to fast charge your car at charging stations in the time it’ll take you to go to the loo and get a Big Mac.
61
02/03/2021 11:08:34 5 4
bbc
And only visit friends or other locations who can provide a charging point if they are any distance from your home (otherwise you may not get back). I don't fancy having to leave my very expensive EV in an area where it would be a desirable target for some ne'er do well to damage or steal!
106
02/03/2021 11:33:59 3 4
bbc
Why be so negative. The solutions under development are mind-blowing and while the EV is not a good fit for everyone today, the migration away from ICE is necessary and will continue.
261
02/03/2021 13:18:01 1 2
bbc
The 1000 km minimum 200 kW battery charging ar 350 kW that's coming soon (Tesla Roadster and Semi (Artic) ) will mean flat dwellers will only charge at the supermarket/ work/ superchargers. Not many trips in the UK that are 600 miles without a pee stop innit?
295
02/03/2021 14:00:58 2 1
bbc
Hydrogen fuelled cars are the answer for those who cannot plug in to electricity.
Hydrogen is not the most energy-efficient to produce but it can be generated from off-peak surplus electricity.
335
02/03/2021 14:52:18 1 1
bbc
''pay 3 x what their home electricity is''
Still cheaper than petrol
10
02/03/2021 10:34:18 105 44
bbc
It is hard to see how producing millions of energy intensive, environmentally damaging batteries is going to be any better globally. It seems to be just shifting the source of the emissions.
30
02/03/2021 10:51:58 46 22
bbc
Better the efficiency of large scale, centralised energy generators than have millions of smaller, hugely inefficient energy generators on the road at any one time in the form of ICE cars. Leaps in environmental improvements and efficiency in the centralised energy sources is automatically and immediately transferred to the population instead of waiting for them to buy new cars
59
02/03/2021 11:01:05 14 7
bbc
You do realise that the oil industry 'lobbyists' are employed to put around misinformation. Anyone with a scientific background who takes an interest in the environment has been laughing at the industry shills for some time now. I suspect that my next car will be an electric one, would totally suit me.
235
02/03/2021 12:55:48 5 3
bbc
In theory, but that assumes a very high efficiency in the national grid, and infrastructure to support it. Considering it goes through something like 5 transformers before reaching the consumer that's a lot of infrastructure needed, with a lot of iron, steel (carbon) and copper.
Also, the most popular battery pack supplied by Tesla contains 7,104 x 18650 (AA+) cells!!
EV is not an answer....
27
02/03/2021 10:50:33 0 2
bbc
Volvo is owned by Geely of China so access to batteries is easier as China will be the leader.
31
02/03/2021 10:52:02 7 1
bbc
It literally says in the article "Last month, Volvo abandoned plans to merge with Chinese car giant Geely."

So, no.
46
02/03/2021 10:59:49 3 0
bbc
Except that Geely's parent company, Zhejiang Geely Holding Group, owns Volvo.
18
02/03/2021 10:34:53 5 6
bbc
BEVs are the future. Crude oil is filthy stuff, and so much pollution is caused by it. Hydrogen is a red herring, releases more CO2 in production than ICE cars make. Plus check out the price of hydrogen cars. Oh, and there is nowhere to fill them up. WE have to embrace BEVs as the future. The technology is moving rapidly, they get better all the time.
32
02/03/2021 10:52:16 4 1
bbc
Yes in the case of hyundai its going very fast back to the manufacturer for batteries that don't burst into flames.
18
02/03/2021 10:34:53 5 6
bbc
BEVs are the future. Crude oil is filthy stuff, and so much pollution is caused by it. Hydrogen is a red herring, releases more CO2 in production than ICE cars make. Plus check out the price of hydrogen cars. Oh, and there is nowhere to fill them up. WE have to embrace BEVs as the future. The technology is moving rapidly, they get better all the time.
33
02/03/2021 10:53:44 2 2
bbc
Where do you charge up when you live in a high density urban area where you're lucky if you can park within 50m of your house?
Oh so private carpark during the day where you'll pay 3 x more for electricity than you do at home
Of course the well off with driveways will be able to charge at home cheaply

Hydrogen is the future, will get cheaper & cleaner
56
02/03/2021 10:57:31 4 1
bbc
hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Hydrogen is a failed experiment. Those of us who keep an eye on the science have known that for a while.

Basic hydrogen car = £75k

Good second hand Nissan Leaf = £5k

Plus where do you fill up a hydrogen car? Oh, that's tight, you can't.

Hydrogen is just an oil industry con job. Not going to happen.
182
02/03/2021 12:21:47 1 0
bbc
Because you don't have access to electricity but live next to an explosive, expensive Hydrogen station?!!!
2
02/03/2021 10:18:16 4 3
bbc
Seems reasonable to me, along as the infrastructure is in place to support charging. In additional to being as affordable as petrol diesel cars.
34
02/03/2021 10:53:44 1 0
bbc
I live in Wandsworth, which has the best electric car infrastructure in the UK. It's easier and cheaper to have an electric car here already, so it is doable.

That said, it's not practical to have a car in Wandsworth anyway.
35
02/03/2021 10:54:39 36 9
bbc
All good for the environment, but I have 2 issues simple one is charging your battery if you live on the sixth floor and no garge, Second when everyone moves to electric cars the Gov. will lose billions in revenue from petrol. Cheap to run now but in 2030?
44
02/03/2021 10:58:43 16 36
bbc
Lose billions in revenue, and save billions on NHS and care as a result of less pollution.

Swings and roundabouts...
49
02/03/2021 11:00:53 7 10
bbc
That tired old argument again?! ...Thing is, if you're living in that sort of high density urban setting, then you should really be using public transport for the majority of your commutes/mileage, ..and occasionally bring your EV to the supercharger. The people who actually need cars the most, will typically have their own parking to facilitate overnight charging.
117
02/03/2021 11:40:13 1 9
bbc
Simple you are suppose to use public transport, walk, cycle and rent a car only when nothing else is possible.

Its called the Green Utopia.
328
02/03/2021 14:49:35 4 0
bbc
If you think the Govt won't start taxing Electic vehicle once they are the only option - you've not seen the writing on the wall.
Also I don't think anyone has a "garge".
504
03/03/2021 10:13:51 0 0
bbc
Most apartment blocks have parking areas which can have charge points fitted.
537
03/03/2021 12:02:03 0 0
bbc
important to remember that not all petrol cars will be gone by 2030, it's just that you can't buy a new one, so there will be petrol cars on the road for some years after
36
02/03/2021 10:55:30 2 2
bbc
Cars are increasingly just expensive white goods.

They will be sold as transport, not objects of ego boosting design and performance.

Volvo are right to be very clear about their strategy.
43
02/03/2021 10:57:34 2 2
bbc
Nope, they’ll be the iPhones of the future.
60
02/03/2021 11:02:21 1 1
bbc
I think in future ore people wlil belong to car club type organizations, where you book a car when you need one, a lot less people will own cars and the badge culture will fade.
5
02/03/2021 10:27:38 17 11
bbc
Electric is the devil!
In all seriousness, the future is not electric. From the horrific mining process to the inability to do anything but bury batteries back into the ground at end of life, and the huge cost of new infrastructure in between.
Use the forecourt infrastructure we have now to promote hydrogen alternatives - limitless resource and provided energy sources are clean - zero emissions
37
02/03/2021 10:55:39 5 1
bbc
Recent studies prove that all the anti-EV "environmental" arguments are rubbish - ICE cars (which will include hydrogen) produce *at least* 300 times the amount of pollutants over their complete lifecycle as EVs do. EVs are an order of magnitude more efficient than ICE - including hydrogen. Fuel production uses an order of magnitude more cobalt than battery production. Etc.
54
02/03/2021 11:05:07 2 1
bbc
Recent reports still don't include lithium extraction or mining in their evaluations
73
02/03/2021 11:15:55 2 1
bbc
Just checked your figures for cobalt usage. Again you are incorrect currently 62 percent of world production is used in lithium batteries.
29
02/03/2021 10:51:37 27 10
bbc
Unless we're going to a future where only the well off, those with their own driveway have personal vehicles & every one else uses public transport or cycles/walks

Pure EVs are pointless
Far too much of the population live in high density urban areas where they can't charge overnight
Will have to park somewhere during the day to charge & pay 3 x what their home electricity is.
38
02/03/2021 10:55:40 7 22
bbc
Still cheaper to run than diesel, even at three times the price of home electricity. But it won’t be long before you’ll be able to fast charge your car at charging stations in the time it’ll take you to go to the loo and get a Big Mac.
48
02/03/2021 11:00:34 7 2
bbc
Gov will have to replace lost venue
How do you think they'll do that?
You think it'll be cheap to fast charge or fill at carparks?
That's where the price will be high so the Gov can cream some of the profits off
Before you know it, we'll be paying tax on electricity at the same rate we pay it on fossil fuels.
457
02/03/2021 22:42:45 0 0
bbc
you seriously think the government are going to let billions in fuel duty and VAT slip through their fingers?
when the time is right, you will find your running costs spiral, when this revenue stream is switched over to electric power.
547
03/03/2021 12:18:44 0 0
bbc
If I have to eat Big Macs I will buy a diesel Hummer.
8
02/03/2021 10:32:44 7 2
bbc
What % of journeys that you (or an average Briton) makes are more than 200 miles? Aside from HGVs, I'd be shocked if the number is >10% and wouldn't surprised if it was <1%.
39
02/03/2021 10:55:45 0 0
bbc
Yep, 40% of car journeys are less than 2 miles, (Source the AA)
40
02/03/2021 10:56:27 15 10
bbc
I'm not convinced battery power is scalable to the entire automotive fleet, and think more should be done with synthetic fuels.

Producing synthetic petrol and diesel from renewable electricity offers the advantage of powering existing cars and using the existing distribution infrastructure. Can batteries or hydrogen do that?

So I'm more interested in Porsche's recent announcement than Volvo's.
58
02/03/2021 11:07:29 10 5
bbc
Problem with synthetic fuels, even just simple hydrogen, is that it has roughly only 1/3rd the end-to-end efficiency of battery electric, ...long chain hydrocarbons would be even worse yet again.
Long term, the only things using synthetic fuels will be medium and long haul aviation and shipping, ...for everything else, efficient, lower maintenance batteries will be a complete no-brainer!
62
QED
02/03/2021 11:09:17 4 1
bbc
Doesn’t get over the pollution from fossil fuels whether synthetic or not.
365
02/03/2021 15:30:05 0 0
bbc
Once Natural Gas is replaced with Hydrogen as the fuel to provide UK domestic hot water and heating it'll also be available to provide a source of fuel for Motor Vehicles & Trains. Who knows what technology will be available in 5 to 10 yrs time. What we do know is that Govts are going to kill off the Petrol & Deisel vehicles.
19
02/03/2021 10:36:05 2 1
bbc
The oil industry 'lobbyists' conveniently forget that the vast majority of drivers rarely do more than short local journeys.
41
02/03/2021 10:57:16 1 1
bbc
Not a oil industry lobbyist but I do under normal circumstances make 250 mile round trips about ten times per year.

I would be interested in a PHEV option with a range of 30 miles for commuting where I can switch to electric in towns but the eco worriers keep wanting to kill off the sensible option.
341
02/03/2021 14:55:40 0 0
bbc
The most sensible comment on here. PHEV is ideal for most motorists right now and until there are more affordable and longer range EVs in the future, but they have a bad name from tabloid press reports because of abuse by company car 'owners' that benefitted from tax incentives that didn't encourage them to charge them.
342
02/03/2021 14:55:56 0 0
bbc
You only have to look out of your window to see numerous neighbours pop out in their cars and arrive back within the hour which means they have only travelled within PHEV range which could have been done without producing any local tailpipe emissions.
22
02/03/2021 10:45:47 8 1
bbc
I know it will be argued that costs will come down. But electric cars are ridiculously expensive, and that's with massive taxation incentives in their favour.

Once the majority are driving electric, the revenue model will have to change to replace fuel duty and road fund licence - so private travel will become prohibitively expensive for many.
42
02/03/2021 10:57:29 0 1
bbc
Considering the majority won't be able to charge at home
The Gov will probably cream off some of the profits car parks make charging 3x more for electricity than you would at home
36
02/03/2021 10:55:30 2 2
bbc
Cars are increasingly just expensive white goods.

They will be sold as transport, not objects of ego boosting design and performance.

Volvo are right to be very clear about their strategy.
43
02/03/2021 10:57:34 2 2
bbc
Nope, they’ll be the iPhones of the future.
35
02/03/2021 10:54:39 36 9
bbc
All good for the environment, but I have 2 issues simple one is charging your battery if you live on the sixth floor and no garge, Second when everyone moves to electric cars the Gov. will lose billions in revenue from petrol. Cheap to run now but in 2030?
44
02/03/2021 10:58:43 16 36
bbc
Lose billions in revenue, and save billions on NHS and care as a result of less pollution.

Swings and roundabouts...
155
02/03/2021 12:02:33 0 4
bbc
About as realistic as the £350K on the side of a bus.
544
03/03/2021 12:14:46 0 0
bbc
In your dreams
22
02/03/2021 10:45:47 8 1
bbc
I know it will be argued that costs will come down. But electric cars are ridiculously expensive, and that's with massive taxation incentives in their favour.

Once the majority are driving electric, the revenue model will have to change to replace fuel duty and road fund licence - so private travel will become prohibitively expensive for many.
45
02/03/2021 10:59:04 0 1
bbc
Lithium prices are going up. As that is the major expense of the cars the prices will go up.

There's a limit on how much charge a kg of lithium can carry and we are close to it.
31
02/03/2021 10:52:02 7 1
bbc
It literally says in the article "Last month, Volvo abandoned plans to merge with Chinese car giant Geely."

So, no.
46
02/03/2021 10:59:49 3 0
bbc
Except that Geely's parent company, Zhejiang Geely Holding Group, owns Volvo.
10
02/03/2021 10:34:18 105 44
bbc
It is hard to see how producing millions of energy intensive, environmentally damaging batteries is going to be any better globally. It seems to be just shifting the source of the emissions.
47
02/03/2021 10:59:50 25 8
bbc
Buckyohare: you're talking nonsense, electric cars use far far less recourses than fossil fuel cars:

https://www.transportenvironment.org/publications/batteries-vs-oil-comparison-raw-material-needs

And that will only improve as we get more efficient at making and recycling them.

They also do not poison the air you are breathing.
116
02/03/2021 11:39:30 14 13
bbc
Thank you for sharing that report but it doesn't seem to cover the energy cost associated with the initial extraction and processing of all the additional batteries that will be needed -not to mention all the extra copper cabling to charge them.

The energy cost of processing any material (recycled aor otherwise) into a battery is huge - it's one of the reasons batteries are universally expensive.
195
02/03/2021 12:28:59 8 3
bbc
Pretty sure Volvo themselves came out and said you need to do about 70k miles in an electric car to start getting any environmental benefit
443
02/03/2021 20:30:17 0 0
bbc
That very conveniently take the the total weight of the metals in the batteries and compares it to the weight of fuel as raw materials. It very conveniently ignores all the raw materials that are pretty much impossible to recycle to create the required "Green Electricity". If you use fossil fuel to create the electricity it is far worse.
38
02/03/2021 10:55:40 7 22
bbc
Still cheaper to run than diesel, even at three times the price of home electricity. But it won’t be long before you’ll be able to fast charge your car at charging stations in the time it’ll take you to go to the loo and get a Big Mac.
48
02/03/2021 11:00:34 7 2
bbc
Gov will have to replace lost venue
How do you think they'll do that?
You think it'll be cheap to fast charge or fill at carparks?
That's where the price will be high so the Gov can cream some of the profits off
Before you know it, we'll be paying tax on electricity at the same rate we pay it on fossil fuels.
64
02/03/2021 11:05:22 2 5
bbc
Road charging is the most likely revenue replacement. That way the people that use the roads most, pay the most. Which is fair. Sounds like you have been swallowing the oil industry propaganda.
258
02/03/2021 13:12:55 1 2
bbc
Yes, the costs will be the same eventually, just better, cleaner personal transport.
35
02/03/2021 10:54:39 36 9
bbc
All good for the environment, but I have 2 issues simple one is charging your battery if you live on the sixth floor and no garge, Second when everyone moves to electric cars the Gov. will lose billions in revenue from petrol. Cheap to run now but in 2030?
49
02/03/2021 11:00:53 7 10
bbc
That tired old argument again?! ...Thing is, if you're living in that sort of high density urban setting, then you should really be using public transport for the majority of your commutes/mileage, ..and occasionally bring your EV to the supercharger. The people who actually need cars the most, will typically have their own parking to facilitate overnight charging.
140
02/03/2021 11:51:34 10 0
bbc
I don't have a driveway, on-street parking only. I live 5 miles from train station (late 2 out of 10 journeys every week if not cancelled, S Rail), bus route would take 2 hours one-way to work. Car takes me 1 hour (50 miles) to get to work. Plus I have to drive 300 mile round trips to customer sites. What EV can do that if I can't charge the car overnight?
10
02/03/2021 10:34:18 105 44
bbc
It is hard to see how producing millions of energy intensive, environmentally damaging batteries is going to be any better globally. It seems to be just shifting the source of the emissions.
50
02/03/2021 10:55:11 13 8
bbc
You are not a scientist are you?
107
02/03/2021 11:34:31 10 11
bbc
Nor are you. So whats yout point, that only a qualified person can comment?
3
02/03/2021 10:26:11 5 5
bbc
9 years for the technology to improve so that electric cars can cover longer (300 mile+) distances reliably and without charging?

Or are we going to have to adapt to a lifestyle where journies will have to be planned in 150-200 mile sections with 3-4 hour stopovers?
51
02/03/2021 11:04:23 0 1
bbc
Solid State batteries are expected to arrive in the next 5 years or so, so in 9 or 10 should be available in most automotive applications. These should provide at least double the capacity for the same size, and recharge times in minutes rather than hours. So 600+ miles and 10 minute recharges? It's possible and will be the game changer.

Current tech will still work fine for 95% of journeys!
18
02/03/2021 10:34:53 5 6
bbc
BEVs are the future. Crude oil is filthy stuff, and so much pollution is caused by it. Hydrogen is a red herring, releases more CO2 in production than ICE cars make. Plus check out the price of hydrogen cars. Oh, and there is nowhere to fill them up. WE have to embrace BEVs as the future. The technology is moving rapidly, they get better all the time.
52
02/03/2021 11:04:40 1 1
bbc
Rare Earth Minerals are used in electric battery production, they all need mining which generates tons of waste. Hydrogen is far cleaner and if you use renewables and newer methods no CO2 is produced.
66
02/03/2021 11:09:36 2 1
bbc
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Hyrdrogen

hahahahahahahahahahahahah

Hydrogen is going nowhere in personal transport. Perhaps for HGVs one day, but never in cars.
28
02/03/2021 10:50:33 5 4
bbc
I’m all for electric, they’re cheap to run and fun to drive. But will all of us driving zero emission vehicles stop the Greens and the LibDems from pedestrianising entire sections of our inner cities? I don’t think so.
53
Bob
02/03/2021 11:05:01 8 3
bbc
The dumb thing is the drive to pedestrianise high streets and city centres can often make things worse.

Our local council is pushing to do such. It will mean that to go from one side of town to the other you have to drive a huge detour.

Do you clean up the high street? Sure. But you're polluting more overall.

Green folk tend to focus on the immediate issue and never the bigger picture.
186
02/03/2021 12:24:21 1 0
bbc
You can thank the car for creating that issue to begin with. People wouldn't live in unconnected suburbs with no shops or businesses if we didn't push people to rely on the car in the 1960s.
37
02/03/2021 10:55:39 5 1
bbc
Recent studies prove that all the anti-EV "environmental" arguments are rubbish - ICE cars (which will include hydrogen) produce *at least* 300 times the amount of pollutants over their complete lifecycle as EVs do. EVs are an order of magnitude more efficient than ICE - including hydrogen. Fuel production uses an order of magnitude more cobalt than battery production. Etc.
54
02/03/2021 11:05:07 2 1
bbc
Recent reports still don't include lithium extraction or mining in their evaluations
55
02/03/2021 11:06:02 3 2
bbc
Foolish lemmings
33
02/03/2021 10:53:44 2 2
bbc
Where do you charge up when you live in a high density urban area where you're lucky if you can park within 50m of your house?
Oh so private carpark during the day where you'll pay 3 x more for electricity than you do at home
Of course the well off with driveways will be able to charge at home cheaply

Hydrogen is the future, will get cheaper & cleaner
56
02/03/2021 10:57:31 4 1
bbc
hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Hydrogen is a failed experiment. Those of us who keep an eye on the science have known that for a while.

Basic hydrogen car = £75k

Good second hand Nissan Leaf = £5k

Plus where do you fill up a hydrogen car? Oh, that's tight, you can't.

Hydrogen is just an oil industry con job. Not going to happen.
57
02/03/2021 11:06:54 42 18
bbc
Reality check. People are just going to hold on to the ICEs for longer and longer. Maintenance will keep them on the roads for years. Maybe when you can drive an EV over 300 miles in the dark, cold and rain whilst listening to the radio they will have a future. Motor, lights, heating, wipers and radio draining one battery make them useless.
67
02/03/2021 11:10:32 17 44
bbc
ICE cars will be taxed off the road. Simple as that. There will be no market for second hand ones, other than as scrap.
97
02/03/2021 11:29:41 15 2
bbc
"Maybe when you can drive an EV over 300 miles in the dark, cold and rain whilst listening to the radio they will have a future."

My BEV can already do this as can many other models. The only real issue is charging infrastructure, fine where I live and travel, but needs improvment in other areas of the country.
100
02/03/2021 11:30:46 9 3
bbc
The technology you refer to is already available for sale. Vehicle launches in the next 5 years will see EV performance exceed ICE and within 10 years, battery technology (charging/performance) will be an issue of the past. ICE powered units will of course still be built for certain markets and existing owners will not need to scrap them. So your concerns are largely redundant.
110
02/03/2021 11:37:01 9 14
bbc
Lights, heating, wipers, radio come from the 12V battery as they do already in your old style car. Make no difference to the main battery. Do some research.
152
02/03/2021 12:01:18 4 1
bbc
Once Tesla start putting the 200 kW Roadster battery in their range it will be 1000 km real world range, 0-60 in 5s and 250 km/hr with 350 kW charging for a base model family saloon.
157
02/03/2021 12:05:00 9 0
bbc
Transport statistics suggest that most people on here are exaggerating both their mileage and their normal journey length hugely. You will not, perhaps, be able to tow a caravan the length of the country at a moment's notice, but you could not do that 60 years ago anyway because you had no car at all. Current electric cars will do 90% of what anyone wants, and 100% of what 90% of people want.
188
02/03/2021 12:24:33 7 2
bbc
Reality check, more and more people will realise that they don't drive 400 miles in a day and that kind of range is just fine, but if they want they can stop for 30mins to charge to go further.
Why would you buy fuel when its cheaper to buy a BEV?
radio, lights and wiper doesn't use any significant power these days. Heater is the main drain, but just like houses cars are improving on this too.
289
02/03/2021 13:52:39 1 3
bbc
My petrol car has 260,000 milds on the clock, nothing (touch wood) seriously wrong with it. At that mileage a battery car will have needed 2 very expensive battery changes. The environmnetal cost of replacing millions of cars AND putting in millions of charging points, the cables etc etc is huge. Petrol from air is proven and works.
330
02/03/2021 14:50:08 0 0
bbc
'' Motor, lights, heating, wipers and radio draining one battery make them useless.''

Nonesense.
The bateries have improved hugely and will continue to do so.
Or maybe you think you are smarter than Volvo's engineers?!
344
02/03/2021 14:56:29 0 0
bbc
What about when the Govt mandates the cease of use of Petrol & Deisel. Stopping the sale of the cars is only the first step. Stopping the mass sale of the fuels will come later.
413
02/03/2021 18:47:13 0 0
bbc
Western Power Distribution did a report on how local distribution networks will cope with EV roll-out. They estimate when every consumer has an EV, there will be enough power for each household to take charge for 30 miles range per day. Two EVs in a house means 15 miles each. Towing a caravan for long distances will be academic
40
02/03/2021 10:56:27 15 10
bbc
I'm not convinced battery power is scalable to the entire automotive fleet, and think more should be done with synthetic fuels.

Producing synthetic petrol and diesel from renewable electricity offers the advantage of powering existing cars and using the existing distribution infrastructure. Can batteries or hydrogen do that?

So I'm more interested in Porsche's recent announcement than Volvo's.
58
02/03/2021 11:07:29 10 5
bbc
Problem with synthetic fuels, even just simple hydrogen, is that it has roughly only 1/3rd the end-to-end efficiency of battery electric, ...long chain hydrocarbons would be even worse yet again.
Long term, the only things using synthetic fuels will be medium and long haul aviation and shipping, ...for everything else, efficient, lower maintenance batteries will be a complete no-brainer!
87
02/03/2021 11:26:21 2 2
bbc
The efficiency argument is a good one, and for sure battery cars are the right fit for many applications. I'm attracted to the sustainability of synthetic fuels, as I don't know how much of the world needs to be dug up to produce 2+ billion batteries. Plus I have never had a battery powered device that hasn't failed at some point.
101
02/03/2021 11:31:38 2 2
bbc
Although we have no way of building enough batteries for 2 billion cars, nor the raw materials, nor anyway to charge them all everyday several times, nor anyway to recycle them at this massive scale, the UK at the moment basically stores them in a shed!!
30
02/03/2021 10:51:58 46 22
bbc
Better the efficiency of large scale, centralised energy generators than have millions of smaller, hugely inefficient energy generators on the road at any one time in the form of ICE cars. Leaps in environmental improvements and efficiency in the centralised energy sources is automatically and immediately transferred to the population instead of waiting for them to buy new cars
59
02/03/2021 11:01:05 14 7
bbc
You do realise that the oil industry 'lobbyists' are employed to put around misinformation. Anyone with a scientific background who takes an interest in the environment has been laughing at the industry shills for some time now. I suspect that my next car will be an electric one, would totally suit me.
36
02/03/2021 10:55:30 2 2
bbc
Cars are increasingly just expensive white goods.

They will be sold as transport, not objects of ego boosting design and performance.

Volvo are right to be very clear about their strategy.
60
02/03/2021 11:02:21 1 1
bbc
I think in future ore people wlil belong to car club type organizations, where you book a car when you need one, a lot less people will own cars and the badge culture will fade.
29
02/03/2021 10:51:37 27 10
bbc
Unless we're going to a future where only the well off, those with their own driveway have personal vehicles & every one else uses public transport or cycles/walks

Pure EVs are pointless
Far too much of the population live in high density urban areas where they can't charge overnight
Will have to park somewhere during the day to charge & pay 3 x what their home electricity is.
61
02/03/2021 11:08:34 5 4
bbc
And only visit friends or other locations who can provide a charging point if they are any distance from your home (otherwise you may not get back). I don't fancy having to leave my very expensive EV in an area where it would be a desirable target for some ne'er do well to damage or steal!
40
02/03/2021 10:56:27 15 10
bbc
I'm not convinced battery power is scalable to the entire automotive fleet, and think more should be done with synthetic fuels.

Producing synthetic petrol and diesel from renewable electricity offers the advantage of powering existing cars and using the existing distribution infrastructure. Can batteries or hydrogen do that?

So I'm more interested in Porsche's recent announcement than Volvo's.
62
QED
02/03/2021 11:09:17 4 1
bbc
Doesn’t get over the pollution from fossil fuels whether synthetic or not.
63
02/03/2021 11:09:26 41 4
bbc
Those who do not have their own off-street parking will have a very stressful time arguing with their neighbours over 'their turn' to use the nearest charging point. Some households with three cars will try to claim the one nearest their house as 'theirs'. We see it over kerb-side parking spaces. It will be worse with charging points.
80
02/03/2021 11:22:20 8 32
bbc
A solution will be found. Wireless charging of vehicles has already been developed, and may offer an option to address your concern. Frankly, I doubt that families will have 3 vehicles or any vehicles in the future. Most manufacturers understand the long term migration to open source vehicle solutions and are looking at viable options.
179
02/03/2021 12:20:37 3 1
bbc
Where I live some streets have a charging point in each lamp post, which seems like a great solution as there's one for every house. Some house still have their own charging points too, but it shows there are solutions.

Plus, some EV cars now only take 15 minutes to charge to 80%, so that would lower competition even further.
198
02/03/2021 12:30:24 1 2
bbc
Most households with 3 cars are likely to also have off street or designated parking spaces.
294
02/03/2021 13:58:05 3 2
bbc
Hydrogen fuelled cars are the answer for those who cannot plug in to electricity.
Hydrogen is not the most energy-efficient to produce but it can be generated from off-peak surplus electricity.
332
02/03/2021 14:50:40 0 3
bbc
Improvise, adapt, overcome.
383
02/03/2021 15:51:53 1 0
bbc
most people wont need to recharge their cars but once a week. put it on to charge while at the gym or in the shops. its a mindset change. the folk who worry about range and recharging are those that dont have an EV. how do you think those of us that run an EV cope?
48
02/03/2021 11:00:34 7 2
bbc
Gov will have to replace lost venue
How do you think they'll do that?
You think it'll be cheap to fast charge or fill at carparks?
That's where the price will be high so the Gov can cream some of the profits off
Before you know it, we'll be paying tax on electricity at the same rate we pay it on fossil fuels.
64
02/03/2021 11:05:22 2 5
bbc
Road charging is the most likely revenue replacement. That way the people that use the roads most, pay the most. Which is fair. Sounds like you have been swallowing the oil industry propaganda.
26
02/03/2021 10:49:47 8 0
bbc
The biggest challenge for the manufacture of Electric Cars is the battery technology and the sourcing and production of Lithium in a safe and environmental manner. Also the recycling of used batteries will need to be carefully considered. I am sure responsible manufactures like Volvo will be looking at the environmental impact carefully.
65
02/03/2021 11:07:37 5 9
bbc
A company in Scandinavia claims to be near cracking the recycling issue. BEVs are the future, the technology is moving at pace. Pity the German manufacturers got caught out by backing dirty diesel and are now behind the curve on technology!
52
02/03/2021 11:04:40 1 1
bbc
Rare Earth Minerals are used in electric battery production, they all need mining which generates tons of waste. Hydrogen is far cleaner and if you use renewables and newer methods no CO2 is produced.
66
02/03/2021 11:09:36 2 1
bbc
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Hyrdrogen

hahahahahahahahahahahahah

Hydrogen is going nowhere in personal transport. Perhaps for HGVs one day, but never in cars.
57
02/03/2021 11:06:54 42 18
bbc
Reality check. People are just going to hold on to the ICEs for longer and longer. Maintenance will keep them on the roads for years. Maybe when you can drive an EV over 300 miles in the dark, cold and rain whilst listening to the radio they will have a future. Motor, lights, heating, wipers and radio draining one battery make them useless.
67
02/03/2021 11:10:32 17 44
bbc
ICE cars will be taxed off the road. Simple as that. There will be no market for second hand ones, other than as scrap.
259
02/03/2021 13:14:23 1 0
bbc
Tax is the least problem; once 50% of vehicles are electric petrol will become more expensive and harder to find (remember what happened to leaded petrol).

There might be a short period in the interim where petrol becomes cheaper because the supply exceeds demand maybe he can buy a load and store it.
291
02/03/2021 13:54:18 0 2
bbc
There will, Africa, parts of Asia, anywhere like Russia with long distances, even Australia or America will NEED petrol cars as electrics are just not going to work for long distance and lack of electricity supply. Petrol from air is the way forward, no recycling millions of cars, putting in charge points, all that new electric cabling (double the number of transmission lines at least)
350
02/03/2021 15:02:32 1 1
bbc
Then only the wealthy with access to home charging point will be able to drive.
414
02/03/2021 18:50:13 1 0
bbc
ICE owners will rise up and vote out any government that taxes them off the road. Remember the fuel depot blockades in 2000 that forced the then labour government to abandon the fuel duty escalator?
545
03/03/2021 12:15:29 0 0
bbc
Just like they enforced the poll tax eh?
6
02/03/2021 10:27:57 35 7
bbc
Intresting how many car manufacturers and govt are pushing for their citizens to drive electric cars but no mention of making HGV lorries or buses renounce the combustion engine.... oh and how is the generating of all this required electricity to be produced ?? seems we are being asked to change but nothing about govt plans for infrastructure to cope...
68
02/03/2021 11:14:56 9 4
bbc
I am not one way or the other on this (my personal view is that a hybrid with electric only range of 40 miles would be overall best for now as one size doesn't fit all), but the average age of a car in the UK is 8.2 years - so approx a total life of 16.4 years. It's likely with covid that number will now grow. That gives about 20 years to get the infrastucture in place which doesn't seem insane.
171
02/03/2021 12:15:16 4 0
bbc
True there is plenty of time, but 90% of drivers do not need Hybrids. 250-400 miles is plenty of distance to be driving in a day, but you can buy 1000miles range if you really want. The only thing missing is local council policy on providing residential slow chargers for those without their own parking.
503
03/03/2021 10:10:26 0 0
bbc
Indeed a plugin hybrid with a large battery and small engine would be fine over an EV for those who sometimes want to travel long distances. However as usual the manufacturers are promoting the most damaging cars they can get away with. Just as they went for illegal diesels over hybrids so they now go for massive engine cars with tiny batteries.
69
02/03/2021 11:15:13 36 5
bbc
Additionally as I am reducing my carbon footprint by not flying abroad for holidays now and holidaying in the UK, how many electric cars can tow a caravan?? and how far on one charge.... there are never reports on the vehicles abilities etc etc
91
vk
02/03/2021 11:27:47 16 11
bbc
All Tesla's
136
02/03/2021 11:49:52 12 0
bbc
Electric cars have far more torque than conventional engines
174
02/03/2021 12:17:25 8 2
bbc
All Teslas can pull no problems. Plus amazing amount of torque. Check out teslas website.
178
02/03/2021 12:20:14 3 5
bbc
Its true caravan towing does reduce the range due to the aerodynamic load, expect 50% range. This can be improved, silverstream are doing a van with an extra battery and solar to support the tow vehicle.
Modern towing legislation for new cars is quite tough so many new cars are not towing rated atall. Its not a specific problem for BEVs and they are more up to the task than ICE.
287
02/03/2021 13:50:59 7 4
bbc
No reason they couldnt tow a caravan. BUT, my petrol car gets upto 520miles to a tank. A Tesla (when noew and batteries are tip top) gets what 300? Now mine towing a caravan drops to 300 miles. A Tesla therefore will need a recharge for half an hour every 160 miles, Guess you will need to holiday in the next village.
327
02/03/2021 14:48:14 2 0
bbc
'' there are never reports on the vehicles abilities etc etc''

Yes there are! Lots of them!
333
02/03/2021 14:51:01 1 1
bbc
You know Clarkson & co have a vested interest in Electic cars when they can't tow a caravan.
349
02/03/2021 15:02:17 0 0
bbc
There's a table at the bottom of this one listing range

https://electrek.co/2021/02/21/longest-range-evs-2021/
445
02/03/2021 21:01:00 1 1
bbc
It maybe that you don't get to tow a mini home around with you anymore. We all have to change our behaviours.

I'm pleased that like me, you are not flying and let's hope that activity is more heavily taxed back to 1950's levels of usage at most.
452
02/03/2021 22:24:19 0 0
bbc
If your towing a caravan then you've got the perfect solution to those naysayers who bemoan the charging times of EV's. you can pitch up en-route and charge the car!
6
02/03/2021 10:27:57 35 7
bbc
Intresting how many car manufacturers and govt are pushing for their citizens to drive electric cars but no mention of making HGV lorries or buses renounce the combustion engine.... oh and how is the generating of all this required electricity to be produced ?? seems we are being asked to change but nothing about govt plans for infrastructure to cope...
70
02/03/2021 11:15:24 2 0
bbc
When I did get the bus to work in London pre-lockdown, it was 100% electric bus as are many in my area.
6
02/03/2021 10:27:57 35 7
bbc
Intresting how many car manufacturers and govt are pushing for their citizens to drive electric cars but no mention of making HGV lorries or buses renounce the combustion engine.... oh and how is the generating of all this required electricity to be produced ?? seems we are being asked to change but nothing about govt plans for infrastructure to cope...
71
02/03/2021 11:15:38 1 2
bbc
There is a move towards HGV's to be hydrogen fueled as the weight of batteries required to get a decent range means that they won't be able to carry as much weight in goods. But like the move to electric, its all slow and expensive with limited infrastructure. I suppose the same goes for buses (H2 better in principle than batteries for refuelling and loads).
166
02/03/2021 12:12:07 2 1
bbc
Range has little to do with weight, but so far all real world Hydrogen examples such as the Toyota Mirai have been heavier than their battery counterpart. The BEV wins on every metric. BEVs are never described as slow, and certainly not the Tesla Semi.
One company is trying to make a FCEV truck but they seem to be a Ponzi scheme, currently being investigated by the US SEC for lying.
372
02/03/2021 15:39:34 1 0
bbc
London tried 3 hydrogen-powered buses in about 2003. Two are in museums; one has disappeared from our knowledge. Not an inspiring start.
72
02/03/2021 11:15:48 84 22
bbc
I live in a flat where I can't possibly charge a car. My town has hardly any charge points (nearest one is about 6 miles from my flat)

I guess I had better start stockpiling AA batteries then!!! Lol
77
02/03/2021 11:18:55 69 8
bbc
Don't know why I was down voted. This is actually a real problem.
120
02/03/2021 11:40:55 26 21
bbc
Do you have a petrol station at home?
142
02/03/2021 11:54:27 17 13
bbc
Where do you park you car now? In the flat?!
204
Col
02/03/2021 12:35:33 5 6
bbc
Your town will have vastly more charge points than you think, install Zap Map app to see them. If an EV has say a 200 mile range, you do not need to charge it daily if you are just on short journeys. You do not keep your car topped up with petrol or diesel so why have the mindset that an EV needs to be fully charged. My commute was 18 miles each way so I could easily manage an EV
239
02/03/2021 12:58:50 1 2
bbc
Hilarious ??
273
02/03/2021 13:40:54 3 2
bbc
Or you know, infrastructure will improve over 9 years.
309
02/03/2021 14:27:30 3 1
bbc
We are working, in the UK, on a road going car that you can remove the battery and carry it to your house/flat.
373
02/03/2021 15:39:46 2 0
bbc
how far is your nearest petrol station? do you ever go to the shops? we have a charging point at home but my wife has never charged her car there as she prefers to use the free public ones. it's really not difficult.
505
03/03/2021 10:16:42 0 0
bbc
You live in a town so why have you got a car, use public transport or walk. If you need to travel when a car is the only option then hire one. People do like to create problems for themselves don't they.
523
03/03/2021 11:04:02 0 0
bbc
Tesla still makes the best EV
37
02/03/2021 10:55:39 5 1
bbc
Recent studies prove that all the anti-EV "environmental" arguments are rubbish - ICE cars (which will include hydrogen) produce *at least* 300 times the amount of pollutants over their complete lifecycle as EVs do. EVs are an order of magnitude more efficient than ICE - including hydrogen. Fuel production uses an order of magnitude more cobalt than battery production. Etc.
73
02/03/2021 11:15:55 2 1
bbc
Just checked your figures for cobalt usage. Again you are incorrect currently 62 percent of world production is used in lithium batteries.
26
02/03/2021 10:49:47 8 0
bbc
The biggest challenge for the manufacture of Electric Cars is the battery technology and the sourcing and production of Lithium in a safe and environmental manner. Also the recycling of used batteries will need to be carefully considered. I am sure responsible manufactures like Volvo will be looking at the environmental impact carefully.
74
02/03/2021 11:15:39 3 1
bbc
Do you not think disposing of ICE problems and getting oil out of the ground is a much bigger issue than electric. Batteries can be recycled and there is no lifetime of oil related disposal. Electric motors are easily rebuilt which has been already done in industry forever.
75
02/03/2021 11:17:12 3 4
bbc
Batteries are not clean ...... Hydrogen is the future

Electric Batteries require vast amount of REE which is stripped from mines, most mines use fossil fuels. They are not clean "For instance, to produce 1 ton of REE, 75 tons of acid waste (that isn’t always handled in the right way) and 1 tone of radioactive residues are also made" Radioactive residue AND acid waste
79
02/03/2021 11:20:21 4 2
bbc
Yeah right. And of course the filthy oil industry never pollutes anything? And those gasses that come out of ICE cars, that is jut fairy dust eh? Stop talking oil industry propaganda.
84
02/03/2021 11:25:23 1 0
bbc
Eh, nope!, ...with the exception of medium and long haul shipping and aviation(due to energy density constraints), or as chemical feedstock, .. hydrogen/synthetic-fuel will have limited future potential.
https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2016/04/hybrid_hydrogen_vs_electric_chart-e1461680641695.jpg?quality=82&strip=all
153
02/03/2021 12:01:47 1 0
bbc
What's funny is that you don't even know that a "Fool" Cell car is also a battery car!!
76
02/03/2021 11:18:23 35 16
bbc
The Latest cars have a range of 250+ miles and charge from 10 to 80% in 15 mins. I feel people on this chat are looking for a problem that does not exist. Yes charging needs to get better. That is an economic question.
82
02/03/2021 11:23:47 10 17
bbc
Yuuuup except once market demand hits ALL battery prices we shall see what happens then dofus
83
02/03/2021 11:22:00 9 2
bbc
The oil industry still has a lot of money, and like all dodgy industries, it employs a lot of 'lobbyists'. It is easy to do our own research on the development of BEVs and disprove all the rubbish the 'lobbyists' spout.
108
02/03/2021 11:34:34 2 1
bbc
Yes it is a real problem for many people. Charging certainly needs to improve.

It's a shame investment hasn't been put into finding a way to just slot a battery out of a car and replace with a fully charged one on a forecourt. That way batteries could be 'rented' - the cost of which would cover new batteries & recycling of old ones.
164
02/03/2021 12:10:48 1 2
bbc
Would that be manufacturers figures because we already know just how reliable those are.
185
02/03/2021 12:24:13 1 4
bbc
Some of the cars have a range of 250miles. Thats pathetic frankly when you are used to 500-600 miles on a tank & is a complete non starter for many. 10 to 80% in 15 mins. Do me a favour. 80% of 250 is only 200miles, so again useless. And, that requires the highest rate of charge and a battery capable of taking it & availability of that charge point. Not many opportunities there. Useless for most
191
02/03/2021 12:26:29 1 2
bbc
Most charge stations in the UK dont offer that charger rate and most cars dont have that 250 plus mile range
207
Col
02/03/2021 12:37:06 3 0
bbc
Well said, I know of no one who kept their ICE vehicle fully fuelled so why does an EV have to be fully charged?
227
02/03/2021 12:47:22 0 2
bbc
I feel there's still a big attitudinal issue to overcome as petrol stations are far more widespread than charge points and I can fuel my hatchback for 500+ miles (and pay for it) in less than 5 min. While those disparities exist it will be difficult to alter behaviour quickly unless HMG starts hitting the ICE sector (which is still most people) hard with taxes (with an election due in 2024).
303
02/03/2021 14:11:00 0 0
bbc
Have a look at Lithium-ion phosphate batteries

“New electric car battery is cheap, charges quickly and makes any vehicle ‘drive like a Porsche’, engineers say”

“Battery has self-heating technology that speeds up charging time and cuts out the need for expensive materials”

https://inews.co.uk/news/environment/electric-car-battery-new-cheap-charge-ev-vehicle-drive-like-porsche-834190/amp
355
02/03/2021 15:12:13 1 2
bbc
15min only poss when the charging rate is 100+Kwh.

You'd be lucky to get more than 10Kwh from a domestic (home) power supply. Most UK homes have at most a single phase 100amp supplyging 22/24Kwh. MAX total possible consumption.
391
02/03/2021 16:18:37 0 0
bbc
High powered chargers are definitely a solution, can we imagine a “petrol station” having a dozen or two of them in the next 10 years?
Unfortunately very fast charging isn’t good for the life of the battery. Any ideas how much a new Tesla or any other car battery costs to replace?
456
02/03/2021 22:39:44 0 0
bbc
and do you know what these cars cost?, almost double petrol/diesel cars of a similar size, 30% of what you pay is for the battery alone.
in time we will all see through the smoke and mirrors con that is electric cars and wind turbine technology.
I live in Norfolk, most of which is about to be ripped apart to provide infrastructure for offshore energy, the more you look, the less you see....
487
03/03/2021 08:13:55 0 0
bbc
People are just negative moaners. We put a man on the moon, we won two world wars, we split the atom, invented the computer, defeated viruses etc but they think we can't increase the number of charge points from an already high starting point. It's a wonder these people get up in the morning if they think mankind is so useless.
72
02/03/2021 11:15:48 84 22
bbc
I live in a flat where I can't possibly charge a car. My town has hardly any charge points (nearest one is about 6 miles from my flat)

I guess I had better start stockpiling AA batteries then!!! Lol
77
02/03/2021 11:18:55 69 8
bbc
Don't know why I was down voted. This is actually a real problem.
98
02/03/2021 11:30:02 19 8
bbc
Because, as you're username suggest, it's never that simple.

The number of charging points and infrastructure is an economic challenge that's rapidly being met. As electric cars become more prevalent, those charging points will become a lot more common.
177
Bob
02/03/2021 12:19:47 11 2
bbc
It is a problem today. But I highly doubt their nearest charging option will be 6 miles away in 2030. Worry about it in December 2029 when the impending doom is about to arrive.
219
02/03/2021 12:43:42 3 9
bbc
Its is easily solved if you have any imagination and not just a moaner
325
02/03/2021 14:46:39 8 4
bbc
You need to start lobbying for the producytion of Hydrogen powered cars as an alternative.

Just as there is Petrol & Deisel today - there needs to be Electric & Hydrogen for the future.
543
03/03/2021 12:12:29 0 0
bbc
There are far left loonies that will down vote anything that doesn't fit their tree hugger agenda.
17
02/03/2021 10:34:20 29 11
bbc
In implementing these green ambitions the eco-crowd have overlooked many important points. The world quite literally has to be dug up in order to lay all the cabling to deliver the electricity. What manufacturing is required to produce the massive amount of cable, ie. plastic insulation/cladding for the cables? What is going to generate the gigantic amount of electricity to power the vehicles?
78
02/03/2021 11:18:39 6 18
bbc
In the end we will have local solar and wind and more local battery storage systems. No big power stations needed. This is already here on a smaller scale.
312
02/03/2021 14:30:58 3 1
bbc
As of this moment, wind and solar are only producing 12% of the UK demand for electricity.
It's pointless reducing CO2 emissions from vehicles and replacing them with emissions from power stations.
If the wind don't blow and the sun don't shine you are stuffed.
546
03/03/2021 12:17:42 0 0
bbc
In the end...

You mean in 50 years when new technology will power vehicles differently.
75
02/03/2021 11:17:12 3 4
bbc
Batteries are not clean ...... Hydrogen is the future

Electric Batteries require vast amount of REE which is stripped from mines, most mines use fossil fuels. They are not clean "For instance, to produce 1 ton of REE, 75 tons of acid waste (that isn’t always handled in the right way) and 1 tone of radioactive residues are also made" Radioactive residue AND acid waste
79
02/03/2021 11:20:21 4 2
bbc
Yeah right. And of course the filthy oil industry never pollutes anything? And those gasses that come out of ICE cars, that is jut fairy dust eh? Stop talking oil industry propaganda.
85
02/03/2021 11:25:41 0 2
bbc
It’s no secret that batteries need REM’s to be manufactured. A lar free proportion of these rems are found in rainforest... can we guess how those REM’s are acquired and what happens to the said rainforest???? Come on, gimme a guess dofus
173
02/03/2021 12:17:14 0 1
bbc
You often argue that its wrong to say the UK CO2 emission are less than say China, because the UK still produces CO2 emissions. Yet again you defend what you call the indefensible argument.

So as long as it suits your eco-dogma the argument is always correct.??
63
02/03/2021 11:09:26 41 4
bbc
Those who do not have their own off-street parking will have a very stressful time arguing with their neighbours over 'their turn' to use the nearest charging point. Some households with three cars will try to claim the one nearest their house as 'theirs'. We see it over kerb-side parking spaces. It will be worse with charging points.
80
02/03/2021 11:22:20 8 32
bbc
A solution will be found. Wireless charging of vehicles has already been developed, and may offer an option to address your concern. Frankly, I doubt that families will have 3 vehicles or any vehicles in the future. Most manufacturers understand the long term migration to open source vehicle solutions and are looking at viable options.
156
02/03/2021 12:04:15 5 1
bbc
Public 'pool cars' might help. I think any move to get the public to use mass transport (buses and trains) will fail. Many cannot tolerate crowded vehicles with screaming children and undisciplined mobs at bus stops who do not queue like the civilised populations of the 1950s and earlier.
229
02/03/2021 12:49:00 0 0
bbc
You don't need to find solutions, public charging companies just need to hook up with councils and provide slow residential chargers, or in some cases it can be as simple as a gully in the pavement.
346
02/03/2021 14:58:01 1 0
bbc
Maybe - but not within the next 25yrs
18
02/03/2021 10:34:53 5 6
bbc
BEVs are the future. Crude oil is filthy stuff, and so much pollution is caused by it. Hydrogen is a red herring, releases more CO2 in production than ICE cars make. Plus check out the price of hydrogen cars. Oh, and there is nowhere to fill them up. WE have to embrace BEVs as the future. The technology is moving rapidly, they get better all the time.
81
02/03/2021 11:23:01 0 1
bbc
The idea with H2 is to produce it from surplus electricity from renewable sources when we have more power than is needed. Although not an efficient way to do things its effectively storing energy that would otherwise be wasted. As we get more and more power from wind we will get more and more chances to store H2. How we use it (in cars or to 'sweeten' natural gas) is another topic.
76
02/03/2021 11:18:23 35 16
bbc
The Latest cars have a range of 250+ miles and charge from 10 to 80% in 15 mins. I feel people on this chat are looking for a problem that does not exist. Yes charging needs to get better. That is an economic question.
82
02/03/2021 11:23:47 10 17
bbc
Yuuuup except once market demand hits ALL battery prices we shall see what happens then dofus
93
02/03/2021 11:28:18 7 1
bbc
Except most battery cost is manufacturing and not materials,.. so the economies of scale that come with increased demand and production will probably drive prices down.
96
02/03/2021 11:29:34 5 2
bbc
Even better, a problem that might exist at some time in the future, maybe. Looking at Battery R&D and the fact prices are dropping 50% every few years. I will not loose sleep there
76
02/03/2021 11:18:23 35 16
bbc
The Latest cars have a range of 250+ miles and charge from 10 to 80% in 15 mins. I feel people on this chat are looking for a problem that does not exist. Yes charging needs to get better. That is an economic question.
83
02/03/2021 11:22:00 9 2
bbc
The oil industry still has a lot of money, and like all dodgy industries, it employs a lot of 'lobbyists'. It is easy to do our own research on the development of BEVs and disprove all the rubbish the 'lobbyists' spout.
75
02/03/2021 11:17:12 3 4
bbc
Batteries are not clean ...... Hydrogen is the future

Electric Batteries require vast amount of REE which is stripped from mines, most mines use fossil fuels. They are not clean "For instance, to produce 1 ton of REE, 75 tons of acid waste (that isn’t always handled in the right way) and 1 tone of radioactive residues are also made" Radioactive residue AND acid waste
84
02/03/2021 11:25:23 1 0
bbc
Eh, nope!, ...with the exception of medium and long haul shipping and aviation(due to energy density constraints), or as chemical feedstock, .. hydrogen/synthetic-fuel will have limited future potential.
https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2016/04/hybrid_hydrogen_vs_electric_chart-e1461680641695.jpg?quality=82&strip=all
79
02/03/2021 11:20:21 4 2
bbc
Yeah right. And of course the filthy oil industry never pollutes anything? And those gasses that come out of ICE cars, that is jut fairy dust eh? Stop talking oil industry propaganda.
85
02/03/2021 11:25:41 0 2
bbc
It’s no secret that batteries need REM’s to be manufactured. A lar free proportion of these rems are found in rainforest... can we guess how those REM’s are acquired and what happens to the said rainforest???? Come on, gimme a guess dofus
86
02/03/2021 11:26:11 1 1
bbc
Great will they be built here in UK to support our workforce or somewhere else?
94
02/03/2021 11:28:37 2 1
bbc
China dude
58
02/03/2021 11:07:29 10 5
bbc
Problem with synthetic fuels, even just simple hydrogen, is that it has roughly only 1/3rd the end-to-end efficiency of battery electric, ...long chain hydrocarbons would be even worse yet again.
Long term, the only things using synthetic fuels will be medium and long haul aviation and shipping, ...for everything else, efficient, lower maintenance batteries will be a complete no-brainer!
87
02/03/2021 11:26:21 2 2
bbc
The efficiency argument is a good one, and for sure battery cars are the right fit for many applications. I'm attracted to the sustainability of synthetic fuels, as I don't know how much of the world needs to be dug up to produce 2+ billion batteries. Plus I have never had a battery powered device that hasn't failed at some point.
115
02/03/2021 11:38:39 1 0
bbc
Bear in mind, that in replacing batteries with significantly less efficient hydrogen or synthetic fuels, you'll need far more installed renewable capacity, which itself will require resources to build, ...which will easily obliterate any resource savings from not using batteries, in addition to requiring far more land for said renewables.
232
02/03/2021 12:51:19 2 0
bbc
You need to dig up 0.000001% of the world to make BEVs, its pretty much the same as how much you need to dig up for combustion vehicles.
88
02/03/2021 11:26:21 0 0
bbc
with the lack of charging points at blocks of flats etc the petrol stations will become points of charging
234
vk
02/03/2021 12:53:07 0 0
bbc
Yes and it's no coincidence that BP own the largest charging infrastructure in the UK, costs 3 times as much as at home but still a LOT cheaper than petrol!
89
02/03/2021 11:27:26 2 4
bbc
So many negative comments from those who clearly have little factual knowledge on the subject. The simple facts are that EVs will replace the ICE and today's technical issues will be overcome. Of course there are some significant hurdles, and the continuing investment by OEMs in alternative fuels may identify viable alternatives to EVs. But for now, embrace the inevitable.
121
02/03/2021 11:30:21 2 1
bbc
I suspect the 'doubters' are doing the work of the oil industry and those big car manufacturers (VW grup) who didn't back BEVs early enough so are lagging behind on their development. BEVs are certainly the immediate future.
90
02/03/2021 11:27:32 9 3
bbc
All the plebs going ‘all in’ on the government encouraged ‘battery powered’ future. Reminds me of the time these same plebs went all in on ‘clean diesel’ cars. Look how that turned out! So what could possibly go wrong now?! Il stick to cycling and working from home thanks.
69
02/03/2021 11:15:13 36 5
bbc
Additionally as I am reducing my carbon footprint by not flying abroad for holidays now and holidaying in the UK, how many electric cars can tow a caravan?? and how far on one charge.... there are never reports on the vehicles abilities etc etc
91
vk
02/03/2021 11:27:47 16 11
bbc
All Tesla's
125
02/03/2021 11:42:21 11 6
bbc
he probably meant 'how many electric cars can tow a caravan more than 50 miles up hill and down dale AND be relied on to actually work' - the latter definitely NOT being Tesla's strong point!
134
02/03/2021 11:48:31 4 6
bbc
No, only the model X.
189
02/03/2021 12:25:52 7 7
bbc
But who wants to own a Tesla? They are ugly characterless white goods which basically tell the world you have given up and are boring.
293
02/03/2021 13:56:27 2 2
bbc
All Tesla's what??, what belongs to these Teslas??
8
02/03/2021 10:32:44 7 2
bbc
What % of journeys that you (or an average Briton) makes are more than 200 miles? Aside from HGVs, I'd be shocked if the number is >10% and wouldn't surprised if it was <1%.
92
02/03/2021 11:27:59 0 0
bbc
The point of the original post was probably lost in the black and white of the internet (and a lack of good English), it was less of a negative point of view and more of a hopeful one that 300+ mile ranges will happen!

Yes, it is a small %age of our journeys and we already have a small electric for the local trips. I just hope that there will be the ability for it to cater for the longer ones!
82
02/03/2021 11:23:47 10 17
bbc
Yuuuup except once market demand hits ALL battery prices we shall see what happens then dofus
93
02/03/2021 11:28:18 7 1
bbc
Except most battery cost is manufacturing and not materials,.. so the economies of scale that come with increased demand and production will probably drive prices down.
86
02/03/2021 11:26:11 1 1
bbc
Great will they be built here in UK to support our workforce or somewhere else?
94
02/03/2021 11:28:37 2 1
bbc
China dude
95
02/03/2021 11:29:18 3 4
bbc
Simply... This is PR! electric is not the future, as its almost as polluting as fossil, given how batteries are produced then not recycled, and that the world does NOT have enough cobalt and other precious finds to support a whole world of electric cars, there will in the next 5 years be a break through with fuel, which will result in only water as a waste product.
109
02/03/2021 11:36:10 2 2
bbc
It's called Hydrogen. It has already been developed in Japan.
130
02/03/2021 11:45:41 3 3
bbc
They are 100% recycled. Cobalt is not used in new Tesla Batteries. Biggest use of Cobalt in the world is actually as a catalyst for removing Sulphur from petrol/diesel at oil refineries! Hydrogen is a non starter for a transport fuel as takes massive amount of energy to do. Energy best used just to charge a battery directly. Simples.
82
02/03/2021 11:23:47 10 17
bbc
Yuuuup except once market demand hits ALL battery prices we shall see what happens then dofus
96
02/03/2021 11:29:34 5 2
bbc
Even better, a problem that might exist at some time in the future, maybe. Looking at Battery R&D and the fact prices are dropping 50% every few years. I will not loose sleep there
133
02/03/2021 11:48:27 3 7
bbc
Dropping 50% every few years... riiiight when my mining share has gone up 300% due to increased demand for REMS and gold. Guess my ftse 250 company are lying eh? Such tosh you guys speak
167
02/03/2021 12:12:39 0 2
bbc
What a failed argument. Cost always stop at a price. Currently no one know where that price point is going to be. So the only person being fooled is yourself
57
02/03/2021 11:06:54 42 18
bbc
Reality check. People are just going to hold on to the ICEs for longer and longer. Maintenance will keep them on the roads for years. Maybe when you can drive an EV over 300 miles in the dark, cold and rain whilst listening to the radio they will have a future. Motor, lights, heating, wipers and radio draining one battery make them useless.
97
02/03/2021 11:29:41 15 2
bbc
"Maybe when you can drive an EV over 300 miles in the dark, cold and rain whilst listening to the radio they will have a future."

My BEV can already do this as can many other models. The only real issue is charging infrastructure, fine where I live and travel, but needs improvment in other areas of the country.
113
02/03/2021 11:37:58 12 2
bbc
Very few, if any, will run 300 miles in the dark, cold and rain at 70mph. May be they will in 2030, but not today.
77
02/03/2021 11:18:55 69 8
bbc
Don't know why I was down voted. This is actually a real problem.
98
02/03/2021 11:30:02 19 8
bbc
Because, as you're username suggest, it's never that simple.

The number of charging points and infrastructure is an economic challenge that's rapidly being met. As electric cars become more prevalent, those charging points will become a lot more common.
181
02/03/2021 12:21:34 27 3
bbc
"number of charging points and infrastructure is an economic challenge that's rapidly being met"????

£20K for a public charging point & there needs to be 10,000s. Your definition of "rapidly being met" has room for improvement.
410
02/03/2021 18:34:33 0 0
bbc
Sounds like it will be a task like finding a vaccine site.
550
JPH
03/03/2021 12:41:31 0 0
bbc
Completely agree. But the priority now is for manufacturers to price EVs competitively, or people won't transition away from combustion.

Mass charging infrastructure won't come without increased EV ownership, which won't come until prices are attractive (currently EV commending as much as 50% over a petrol equivalent model)
99
02/03/2021 11:30:38 0 2
bbc
2030! That's very late to the party. Plus will be very hard to compete with Tesla. More likely is that Volvo along with many other legacy car companies will be long bankrupt by then..
57
02/03/2021 11:06:54 42 18
bbc
Reality check. People are just going to hold on to the ICEs for longer and longer. Maintenance will keep them on the roads for years. Maybe when you can drive an EV over 300 miles in the dark, cold and rain whilst listening to the radio they will have a future. Motor, lights, heating, wipers and radio draining one battery make them useless.
100
02/03/2021 11:30:46 9 3
bbc
The technology you refer to is already available for sale. Vehicle launches in the next 5 years will see EV performance exceed ICE and within 10 years, battery technology (charging/performance) will be an issue of the past. ICE powered units will of course still be built for certain markets and existing owners will not need to scrap them. So your concerns are largely redundant.
111
02/03/2021 11:37:03 6 3
bbc
"...Vehicle launches in the next 5 years will see EV performance exceed ICE .."

And what is this week lotto numbers.

I have been waiting for a certain self drive vehicle to be released, yet despite the PR its still not in production.