University to pay out £5k for 'less valuable' experience
02/03/2021 | news | education | 216
Details of student complaints about Covid's impact are released - including one award of £5,000.
1
02/03/2021 10:16:50 10 3
bbc
And so the floodgates open...
2
CR
02/03/2021 10:17:05 81 4
bbc
Government(s) have commercialised the English HE education system. Universities are left to earn their incomes and that has negative implications at many levels.
14
02/03/2021 10:29:13 69 16
bbc
good old Tony insisting 50% of population need to go to university
3
02/03/2021 10:19:47 14 5
bbc
Next PPI type scandal and ambulance chasers coming your way in 3 .... 2 .... 1 .....
27
02/03/2021 10:34:20 7 3
bbc
That is an eventuality that would please a lot of people in or close to this government.
4
02/03/2021 10:20:39 70 14
bbc
I don't believe its all that complicated. You are essentially buying a product and the vendor has failed to deliver. A refund should certainly be forthcoming as with any other business that is selling something.
13
02/03/2021 10:28:05 13 19
bbc
Is the refund going to come from the government/the rest of society who have imposed the rules that have lead to an inferior product?
33
Ian
02/03/2021 10:35:36 5 6
bbc
Who says the "vendor" has failed to deliver? Many university lecturers have worked hard to deliver and deliver well!
42
02/03/2021 10:38:38 5 8
bbc
The vendor has delivered, but in an online form. This has been forced upon universities, and pretty much every other 'vendor' across the world because of this pandemic. But students are still learning and getting degrees. What they are missing out on is the social side of things.
5
02/03/2021 10:19:51 14 19
bbc
Good! No course is worth what they pay, every student (or rather whoever paid) should get at least half back, Thatcher and her ilk making education a business is to blame for this, education is a right, not so some rich people can become even richer, sickening.
11
02/03/2021 10:27:24 21 6
bbc
I think you have a distortion of facts.
Tony Blair in his infinite wisdom decided 50% should go to university.
The old funding model was no longer sustainable as the typically much higher earnings of graduates paid for the old system. Now a degree is a base level.
Tony Blair introduced fees and increased them to 3k per year.
12
02/03/2021 10:26:07 10 2
bbc
It was Bliar and Brown that introduced tuition fees payable by students and not taxpayers
Hopefully it comes out of their funding pot used to push their far left wing agendas. This could be a win win situation for all! Removed
6
02/03/2021 10:20:02 35 13
bbc
The students didn't get what they'd paid for so should get a refund. But the universities have to obey the laws set by the government. So the government that dictated the rules should pay the refunds, not the Unis.
9
02/03/2021 10:26:11 22 18
bbc
So 'we', the public, should pay for a select number to go to university?
17
02/03/2021 10:28:10 7 7
bbc
Universities make millions in profits, why should I as a taxpayer foot the bill? The gov has no money, it is OUR money they have.
41
02/03/2021 10:38:21 5 1
bbc
As any part of a student loan not paid off by the due date is cancelled and the amount owed to the loanee (commercial company) is passed to the underwriter (the government) for payment it seems like we the tax payer need to ensure this system is good value for money - either if you went onto HE or not.
113
02/03/2021 11:15:56 2 2
bbc
Unis are a law unto themselves these days. They should be teaching about freedom of speech and difference of views yet they dont. They would rather push their left wing agendas then go cap in hand to the government when they need extra funds to pay for their day trips to go toppling statues.
7
FF
02/03/2021 10:23:58 33 16
bbc
Its a scandal that Universities took full charges of students when they knew it would nothing like the price they paid.
23
02/03/2021 10:33:11 6 20
bbc
I wonder what you think "the price they paid" is? Education is not like PPE, you cannot ask your mates to find factories churning out batches of low-quality products, and whack on whatever profit margin you think you can get away with. Universities have fixed costs.
180
02/03/2021 15:02:04 2 0
bbc
How is a scandal charging the same whilst incurring higher costs?
8
02/03/2021 10:24:45 10 20
bbc
Don't go to university during a pandemic and expect your money's worth. Should've waited a year and had a much better experience, socially and academically, post pandemic.
10
02/03/2021 10:26:20 3 5
bbc
I imagine a lot of people would be planning this, resulting in a bumper year for people applying, reducing the chances of getting a place at Uni.
20
02/03/2021 10:32:14 2 3
bbc
Yes, great idea. Suspend the education of the next batch of doctors, nurses and operating department practitioners.

That'll improve the country.........not.
54
02/03/2021 10:44:26 0 2
bbc
Wow - blame the students for lack of foresight and clairvoyance.
70
02/03/2021 10:41:46 1 2
bbc
What about the people who were at university when the pandemic hit?
6
02/03/2021 10:20:02 35 13
bbc
The students didn't get what they'd paid for so should get a refund. But the universities have to obey the laws set by the government. So the government that dictated the rules should pay the refunds, not the Unis.
9
02/03/2021 10:26:11 22 18
bbc
So 'we', the public, should pay for a select number to go to university?
15
02/03/2021 10:29:44 9 3
bbc
No, previously higher earning graduates would pay their university tuition back in higher warnings and therefore tax.
It's not different now, with a graduate tax disguised as a loan. Typically in demand professions have a chance of paying large chunks of this back, while other students don't start to earn enough to pay it back.
28
02/03/2021 10:35:01 3 7
bbc
If you, "the public", choose not to fund certain courses, you, "the public", will have to get a better first aid book as opposed to expect doctors and nurses to learn how to save your life....
31
02/03/2021 10:30:17 12 1
bbc
That's how it used to be. Top 5% of young people went to uni without paying fees, some of the poorest even got a few grand to live off called a maintenance grant. Meddling politicians changed a working system to fiddle the unemployment figures to be lower.
74
02/03/2021 10:43:20 1 3
bbc
Yes. After all, we pay for a select few to go to prison, have their children taken away by social services, call an ambulance etc. It's called society. Graduates then go onto pay higher taxes as a result of earning more.
114
02/03/2021 11:16:37 0 1
bbc
Yes but remember you should be ashamed of your privilege for doing so!
116
Ian
02/03/2021 11:17:34 1 2
bbc
"So 'we', the public, should pay for a select number to go to university?"

Yes, 'we' the public are paying for children from those who decide to breed (i.e. a select number) to go to school.
8
02/03/2021 10:24:45 10 20
bbc
Don't go to university during a pandemic and expect your money's worth. Should've waited a year and had a much better experience, socially and academically, post pandemic.
10
02/03/2021 10:26:20 3 5
bbc
I imagine a lot of people would be planning this, resulting in a bumper year for people applying, reducing the chances of getting a place at Uni.
19
02/03/2021 10:32:02 1 1
bbc
Then go for distance education.
68
FF
02/03/2021 10:50:09 0 1
bbc
What's going to be worse is an influx of qualified graduates coming into a market that is about to crumble.

There just won't be enough jobs to go around the high qualifiers.
5
02/03/2021 10:19:51 14 19
bbc
Good! No course is worth what they pay, every student (or rather whoever paid) should get at least half back, Thatcher and her ilk making education a business is to blame for this, education is a right, not so some rich people can become even richer, sickening.
11
02/03/2021 10:27:24 21 6
bbc
I think you have a distortion of facts.
Tony Blair in his infinite wisdom decided 50% should go to university.
The old funding model was no longer sustainable as the typically much higher earnings of graduates paid for the old system. Now a degree is a base level.
Tony Blair introduced fees and increased them to 3k per year.
18
02/03/2021 10:30:06 2 4
bbc
Yes you are probably right, one awful MP tends to merge into another, I knew it was a Tory (or Tory wannabe), who did it. But I am pretty sure it was the witch who got the ball rolling, I may be wrong though.
40
02/03/2021 10:38:08 1 3
bbc
Any modern country should be promoting enhanced education for young people. For far too long, university was the domain of the middle class. All Tony Blair did was try to stop that becoming the future. As a graduate health professional from a working class background, I am pleased some people think my academic ability should not have been squashed due to my family background.
5
02/03/2021 10:19:51 14 19
bbc
Good! No course is worth what they pay, every student (or rather whoever paid) should get at least half back, Thatcher and her ilk making education a business is to blame for this, education is a right, not so some rich people can become even richer, sickening.
12
02/03/2021 10:26:07 10 2
bbc
It was Bliar and Brown that introduced tuition fees payable by students and not taxpayers
34
MCF
02/03/2021 10:35:46 1 4
bbc
You missed the fact that fees tripled under the Conservative/LibDem alliance. They had the opportunity to reform fees but didn't.
4
02/03/2021 10:20:39 70 14
bbc
I don't believe its all that complicated. You are essentially buying a product and the vendor has failed to deliver. A refund should certainly be forthcoming as with any other business that is selling something.
13
02/03/2021 10:28:05 13 19
bbc
Is the refund going to come from the government/the rest of society who have imposed the rules that have lead to an inferior product?
24
02/03/2021 10:33:26 11 3
bbc
Should come out of the University Chancellors pay.. .they probably wouldn't notice.
37
02/03/2021 10:37:38 0 3
bbc
That is not how business works.
2
CR
02/03/2021 10:17:05 81 4
bbc
Government(s) have commercialised the English HE education system. Universities are left to earn their incomes and that has negative implications at many levels.
14
02/03/2021 10:29:13 69 16
bbc
good old Tony insisting 50% of population need to go to university
36
MCF
02/03/2021 10:36:42 9 12
bbc
..and successive Conservative governments ensuring the situation worsened with no viable alternatives.
45
02/03/2021 10:39:16 5 26
bbc
The reality is, 50% of them still don't though. What issue do you have with people who are intelligent enough to do a degree course? Do you want a nation of shopkeepers and plumbers?
89
02/03/2021 11:02:42 5 6
bbc
It wasn't 50% going to university. It was 50% going into higher education, that could mean university, or a Higher National Diploma, or a degree apprenticeship...
9
02/03/2021 10:26:11 22 18
bbc
So 'we', the public, should pay for a select number to go to university?
15
02/03/2021 10:29:44 9 3
bbc
No, previously higher earning graduates would pay their university tuition back in higher warnings and therefore tax.
It's not different now, with a graduate tax disguised as a loan. Typically in demand professions have a chance of paying large chunks of this back, while other students don't start to earn enough to pay it back.
26
02/03/2021 10:34:12 0 3
bbc
so retrospectively punish or change the rules on a financial product taken out many years ago?
16
02/03/2021 10:30:34 16 8
bbc
Before some people start belittling young people for not fighting in a world war (by people who also didn't fight in any war) do pause and ask yourself if you'd be happy paying £9k a term, plus accommodation rent, plus course materials etc as a time when its hard to get work in so many areas.

This seems like a fair judgment.
29
02/03/2021 10:35:06 16 3
bbc
You mean £9k a year of course
73
VoR
02/03/2021 10:51:05 3 3
bbc
Depends entirely on the degree. If it adds more value than I'm paying, I'd take the hit in most areas (e.g. fees). Frankly, I can't think of any of my course that really required attendance in person. Yes, I couldn't have done the lab work, but I could have covered the experiments (e.g. measuring the speed of light) at a theoretical level and gained 99% of what I did from doing the experiment.
117
02/03/2021 11:17:34 5 3
bbc
They arent forced to. They choose to. Why should the rest of the taxpayers fund their choices.
6
02/03/2021 10:20:02 35 13
bbc
The students didn't get what they'd paid for so should get a refund. But the universities have to obey the laws set by the government. So the government that dictated the rules should pay the refunds, not the Unis.
17
02/03/2021 10:28:10 7 7
bbc
Universities make millions in profits, why should I as a taxpayer foot the bill? The gov has no money, it is OUR money they have.
11
02/03/2021 10:27:24 21 6
bbc
I think you have a distortion of facts.
Tony Blair in his infinite wisdom decided 50% should go to university.
The old funding model was no longer sustainable as the typically much higher earnings of graduates paid for the old system. Now a degree is a base level.
Tony Blair introduced fees and increased them to 3k per year.
18
02/03/2021 10:30:06 2 4
bbc
Yes you are probably right, one awful MP tends to merge into another, I knew it was a Tory (or Tory wannabe), who did it. But I am pretty sure it was the witch who got the ball rolling, I may be wrong though.
22
02/03/2021 10:32:58 3 1
bbc
You can talk about whatever. The reason Blair got elected was because he wasn't hard line left.
He still wore a red tie though.

The old model was sustainable, this current one has devalued a degree to the base level.
10
02/03/2021 10:26:20 3 5
bbc
I imagine a lot of people would be planning this, resulting in a bumper year for people applying, reducing the chances of getting a place at Uni.
19
02/03/2021 10:32:02 1 1
bbc
Then go for distance education.
8
02/03/2021 10:24:45 10 20
bbc
Don't go to university during a pandemic and expect your money's worth. Should've waited a year and had a much better experience, socially and academically, post pandemic.
20
02/03/2021 10:32:14 2 3
bbc
Yes, great idea. Suspend the education of the next batch of doctors, nurses and operating department practitioners.

That'll improve the country.........not.
21
Ian
02/03/2021 10:32:30 63 13
bbc
??????? The vast majority of university lecturers have been working like mad to make the student experience as good as possible

??????? In many cases this has involved rapid development of many high quality materials in addition to live sessions

??????? This has been a very stressful time for uni lecturers. It has not been a picnic.

??????? Many students appreciate the hard work of lecturers
61
02/03/2021 10:47:18 11 3
bbc
I agree completely. However, there has also been a noticeable drop-off in some areas with interaction, even with the tools being there to enable it. Discussion groups, feedback on papers, and so forth (of course everyone's experience will differ) but if the full price in a bau year is £10k (for example), and the service isn't there, a refund should be made.
76
02/03/2021 10:52:08 5 16
bbc
So lecturers have had to do a proper day's work for once in their lives.
86
02/03/2021 11:01:22 2 9
bbc
I'm sure they have, but the question us, why weren't they before. Always find academics need to embrace tech more.
96
dan
02/03/2021 11:06:36 9 1
bbc
Absolutely, as a student I really appreciate what the lecturers have done. Yet despite all of that effort I bet every one of those lecturers would admit that the courses HAVEN'T been up to the same standard as they normally are, at least in my course which involves numerous practical's which have had to be postponed/binned.

It's possible to commend lecturers and still think students should get £
108
02/03/2021 11:13:06 4 9
bbc
When you say lecturers have been working extremely hard I can only presume you mean in the pursuit of removing historical statues, trying to rewrite our history or teaching far left principles.

I have zero sympathy for these extreme left wing lecturers.
167
02/03/2021 13:35:07 1 1
bbc
UK universities are also losing overseas students (over our poor virus handling), who pay higher fees to subsidize home students. Universities are a vital part of UK, we need to support and protect the sector, not bankrupt them when they have not done anything wrong.
18
02/03/2021 10:30:06 2 4
bbc
Yes you are probably right, one awful MP tends to merge into another, I knew it was a Tory (or Tory wannabe), who did it. But I am pretty sure it was the witch who got the ball rolling, I may be wrong though.
22
02/03/2021 10:32:58 3 1
bbc
You can talk about whatever. The reason Blair got elected was because he wasn't hard line left.
He still wore a red tie though.

The old model was sustainable, this current one has devalued a degree to the base level.
7
FF
02/03/2021 10:23:58 33 16
bbc
Its a scandal that Universities took full charges of students when they knew it would nothing like the price they paid.
23
02/03/2021 10:33:11 6 20
bbc
I wonder what you think "the price they paid" is? Education is not like PPE, you cannot ask your mates to find factories churning out batches of low-quality products, and whack on whatever profit margin you think you can get away with. Universities have fixed costs.
50
02/03/2021 10:43:03 8 3
bbc
There are stacks of universities churning out low quality product.

There are 20-30 universities that provide genuinely good education and at the end, a certificate that will launch a career. The rest are money making conveyor belts with mediocre teaching leading to a certificate that genuine graduate employers will turn their nose up at.

Thank Blair and his '50% to uni' policy for that.
13
02/03/2021 10:28:05 13 19
bbc
Is the refund going to come from the government/the rest of society who have imposed the rules that have lead to an inferior product?
24
02/03/2021 10:33:26 11 3
bbc
Should come out of the University Chancellors pay.. .they probably wouldn't notice.
25
rd
02/03/2021 10:33:33 0 3
bbc
You choose the course, the uni will pay your fee fair gain, no brainer
15
02/03/2021 10:29:44 9 3
bbc
No, previously higher earning graduates would pay their university tuition back in higher warnings and therefore tax.
It's not different now, with a graduate tax disguised as a loan. Typically in demand professions have a chance of paying large chunks of this back, while other students don't start to earn enough to pay it back.
26
02/03/2021 10:34:12 0 3
bbc
so retrospectively punish or change the rules on a financial product taken out many years ago?
39
02/03/2021 10:38:01 4 1
bbc
I'm just stating how it is as the moment.
Graduates previously would have paid for their tuition in higher earnings.
But now a significant proportion of graduates won't even touch their loans.
3
02/03/2021 10:19:47 14 5
bbc
Next PPI type scandal and ambulance chasers coming your way in 3 .... 2 .... 1 .....
27
02/03/2021 10:34:20 7 3
bbc
That is an eventuality that would please a lot of people in or close to this government.
9
02/03/2021 10:26:11 22 18
bbc
So 'we', the public, should pay for a select number to go to university?
28
02/03/2021 10:35:01 3 7
bbc
If you, "the public", choose not to fund certain courses, you, "the public", will have to get a better first aid book as opposed to expect doctors and nurses to learn how to save your life....
64
02/03/2021 10:48:10 6 1
bbc
We have no objection to paying for useful degrees for people who provide quality services for us. However, we see no reason to pay for Mickey Mouse degrees for low quality students. Before Covid 24% of baristas for a well known chain had degrees which we paid for. A waste of our money and their time sending them to University.
16
02/03/2021 10:30:34 16 8
bbc
Before some people start belittling young people for not fighting in a world war (by people who also didn't fight in any war) do pause and ask yourself if you'd be happy paying £9k a term, plus accommodation rent, plus course materials etc as a time when its hard to get work in so many areas.

This seems like a fair judgment.
29
02/03/2021 10:35:06 16 3
bbc
You mean £9k a year of course
30
02/03/2021 10:35:26 21 6
bbc
All students should have a refund......betcha Vice Chancellors have received their same vastly inflated salaries during all of this....
69
02/03/2021 10:40:37 3 6
bbc
And where does that money come from? The highest cost of any organisation is usually the staff. They still need paying. As the poster "Imperator" said, they're still working their socks off.
9
02/03/2021 10:26:11 22 18
bbc
So 'we', the public, should pay for a select number to go to university?
31
02/03/2021 10:30:17 12 1
bbc
That's how it used to be. Top 5% of young people went to uni without paying fees, some of the poorest even got a few grand to live off called a maintenance grant. Meddling politicians changed a working system to fiddle the unemployment figures to be lower.
32
02/03/2021 10:31:17 6 17
bbc
The truth is that the vast majority of students have been robbed blind. The covid risk to them is negligible, and for most university staff it is tiny.

These young people have been sold down the river by their colleges and a selfish society.

No ifs, no buts, no maybes. All aspects of university life should have continued as normal. Students have a right to enjoy what WE enjoyed at their age.
38
Si
02/03/2021 10:37:56 1 3
bbc
Free education?
47
FF
02/03/2021 10:41:06 2 2
bbc
"The Covid risk to them is negligible and for most university staff it is tiny"

You can keep your No ifs, no buts, no maybes, we had student campuses lockdown due to outbreaks and whilst you may declare everything is grand with no virology or epidemiology qualifications to your name, the simple fact that it increased the spread was why experts chose to close them.

You are wrong.
59
VoR
02/03/2021 10:47:01 3 2
bbc
Which would all make sense... if there weren't students with underlying health conditions and if students in general weren't carrying out activities that act as superspreading events, before sharing the contagion from those events with those of different age groups.
63
02/03/2021 10:39:03 3 4
bbc
Students have a right to enjoy what WE enjoyed at their age.

Numerous unemployed and shortages thanks to Thatcher? :)
168
02/03/2021 13:37:12 2 0
bbc
Ahh yes and the rest of us who have to live with the universities in our cities should just accept the additional risks to our lives from the feral groups pouring on to our streets and into the shops?

Life doesn't owe you, me or anyone else a thing.
4
02/03/2021 10:20:39 70 14
bbc
I don't believe its all that complicated. You are essentially buying a product and the vendor has failed to deliver. A refund should certainly be forthcoming as with any other business that is selling something.
33
Ian
02/03/2021 10:35:36 5 6
bbc
Who says the "vendor" has failed to deliver? Many university lecturers have worked hard to deliver and deliver well!
52
02/03/2021 10:43:50 2 1
bbc
The article.
12
02/03/2021 10:26:07 10 2
bbc
It was Bliar and Brown that introduced tuition fees payable by students and not taxpayers
34
MCF
02/03/2021 10:35:46 1 4
bbc
You missed the fact that fees tripled under the Conservative/LibDem alliance. They had the opportunity to reform fees but didn't.
82
02/03/2021 10:56:54 2 2
bbc
Blair also axed maintenance grants for students from low-income families at the same time as introducing tuition fees. A double-whammy.
35
02/03/2021 10:36:18 45 12
bbc
I'm a university lecturer. Lockdown has crippling impact on workload. Lectures & seminars now take much longer and are emotionally exhausting, trying to remain energetic & positive while talking to a machine. Working from home has massively increased admin. Little tasks that used to take 10 minutes now require days of back/forth emailing, constant meetings, emails 24/7. Totally exhausted.
62
02/03/2021 10:47:27 9 40
bbc
You need to work smarter and embrace technology. Working from home should be easier. Create templates, regular meetings as much as possible. I run up to 37 meetings a week. The main issue is lack of human contact and bring able to write and draw on a wipeboard. Agreed running alot of lectures on calls is tiring, but surely so is face to face.
75
02/03/2021 10:51:56 8 4
bbc
I no longer teach at uni, but totally agree that the actual burden on teaching staff is going to be increased. Not only will staff have to rework all teaching materials for online learning, but the effort getting students to engage is exhausting enough when in a face to face environment. However, no one seems to think of this when looking at refunds.
105
Jan
02/03/2021 11:05:17 7 2
bbc
to Imperator. My son also is a university lecturer and would agree with your comment 100%, if he had the time to answer it! He, too, is totally exhausted, both physically and mentally. I applaud the efforts of the dedicated lecturers who are doing their utmost to give the best teaching experience they can to students.
It must be a right drag when it stops you pushing your far left agendas on students. Don't worry I'm sure your summer will be filled with statue toppling and virtue signalling Removed
112
02/03/2021 11:15:28 2 3
bbc
The students are very worried, nervous, and anxious (perfectly understandable). We want them to do well and are trying our best to give them a proper university experience. This is already emotionally and mentally exhausting, spending weekdays in back to back classes and meetings with worried students, and evenings and weekends answering emails
115
02/03/2021 11:17:02 5 4
bbc
Meanwhile we have management breathing down our necks demanding that we produce materials and teaching of better quality than face to face, we are under perpetual surveillance through student satisfaction surveys, and our trade union does nothing because they are too busy crying over Corbyn.

Absolutely, the students are getting a bad deal. But so are the staff.
130
02/03/2021 11:30:48 3 7
bbc
Sitting in your own home teaching/instructing adults

Send emails from a computer in your own home rather than one in an office

Emotionally exhausting, really
154
02/03/2021 12:27:52 3 2
bbc
And that is something that is not being recognised. This has been so hard for almost a year now. We were "allowed" to take an extra 5 days annual leave over into this year as we did not get a break in the summer due to spending the whole time working out how to convert face to face teaching to online teaching. Many people assume we do nothing during the summer. This is NOT the case, esp last year.
165
02/03/2021 13:25:26 1 3
bbc
And that's different to the rest of us how?
We're all having to deal with this and without all the extra holidays and breaks the education sector benefits from.
14
02/03/2021 10:29:13 69 16
bbc
good old Tony insisting 50% of population need to go to university
36
MCF
02/03/2021 10:36:42 9 12
bbc
..and successive Conservative governments ensuring the situation worsened with no viable alternatives.
13
02/03/2021 10:28:05 13 19
bbc
Is the refund going to come from the government/the rest of society who have imposed the rules that have lead to an inferior product?
37
02/03/2021 10:37:38 0 3
bbc
That is not how business works.
32
02/03/2021 10:31:17 6 17
bbc
The truth is that the vast majority of students have been robbed blind. The covid risk to them is negligible, and for most university staff it is tiny.

These young people have been sold down the river by their colleges and a selfish society.

No ifs, no buts, no maybes. All aspects of university life should have continued as normal. Students have a right to enjoy what WE enjoyed at their age.
38
Si
02/03/2021 10:37:56 1 3
bbc
Free education?
87
02/03/2021 10:51:28 1 3
bbc
My education was free (with a grant and travel paid), but I'd still have been truly devastated if what has been done to these young people had been done to me. To be honest, at that age I might well have needed some serious psychiatric help, if this had been done to me.
26
02/03/2021 10:34:12 0 3
bbc
so retrospectively punish or change the rules on a financial product taken out many years ago?
39
02/03/2021 10:38:01 4 1
bbc
I'm just stating how it is as the moment.
Graduates previously would have paid for their tuition in higher earnings.
But now a significant proportion of graduates won't even touch their loans.
11
02/03/2021 10:27:24 21 6
bbc
I think you have a distortion of facts.
Tony Blair in his infinite wisdom decided 50% should go to university.
The old funding model was no longer sustainable as the typically much higher earnings of graduates paid for the old system. Now a degree is a base level.
Tony Blair introduced fees and increased them to 3k per year.
40
02/03/2021 10:38:08 1 3
bbc
Any modern country should be promoting enhanced education for young people. For far too long, university was the domain of the middle class. All Tony Blair did was try to stop that becoming the future. As a graduate health professional from a working class background, I am pleased some people think my academic ability should not have been squashed due to my family background.
48
02/03/2021 10:41:07 3 1
bbc
The old system was based entirely on academic ability not ability to pay.
The system as it is, is really a squeezed middle.
6
02/03/2021 10:20:02 35 13
bbc
The students didn't get what they'd paid for so should get a refund. But the universities have to obey the laws set by the government. So the government that dictated the rules should pay the refunds, not the Unis.
41
02/03/2021 10:38:21 5 1
bbc
As any part of a student loan not paid off by the due date is cancelled and the amount owed to the loanee (commercial company) is passed to the underwriter (the government) for payment it seems like we the tax payer need to ensure this system is good value for money - either if you went onto HE or not.
4
02/03/2021 10:20:39 70 14
bbc
I don't believe its all that complicated. You are essentially buying a product and the vendor has failed to deliver. A refund should certainly be forthcoming as with any other business that is selling something.
42
02/03/2021 10:38:38 5 8
bbc
The vendor has delivered, but in an online form. This has been forced upon universities, and pretty much every other 'vendor' across the world because of this pandemic. But students are still learning and getting degrees. What they are missing out on is the social side of things.
60
02/03/2021 10:47:14 7 2
bbc
As a father of two that are home schooling I can tell you now that it is no substitute for face to face learning. Even the best lecturers or teachers can't make up for the lack of idea sharing and immediacy. As for the social side, a large part of the payment made by students is to rent rooms and halls. Which, no matter whose fault it was, haven't been needed.
43
02/03/2021 10:38:40 16 6
bbc
It was the universites that decided to monetise education so if they take the money but don't provide what they have promised then this is reasonable.
162
Ian
02/03/2021 13:08:59 5 1
bbc
It was the Conservatives and Lib Dems who decided to monetise education, not the universities. They tripled tuition fees.
44
02/03/2021 10:38:42 14 4
bbc
About time. Why should anyone pay full whack for medical training when the "training" part of the course becomes undeliverable. OK its not the uni's fault it's Covid, but it's not the student's fault that they can't or won't access training either. Simples then - don't charge for it, and students aren't obliged to pay. You wouldn't pay for a car with two wheels on the grounds "it's still a car".
14
02/03/2021 10:29:13 69 16
bbc
good old Tony insisting 50% of population need to go to university
45
02/03/2021 10:39:16 5 26
bbc
The reality is, 50% of them still don't though. What issue do you have with people who are intelligent enough to do a degree course? Do you want a nation of shopkeepers and plumbers?
79
02/03/2021 10:56:21 28 3
bbc
I would prefer to invest in decently prepared plumbers etc who provide value and do necessary jobs than the poor quality "graduates" who struggle to find jobs as baristas
107
02/03/2021 11:11:43 5 4
bbc
Better that than having a degree in Coronation street etc
126
02/03/2021 11:23:43 17 2
bbc
I would be interested to see you definition of intelligence, I know 2 plumbers who make in excess of 70k a year, whilst working in the job they manage there own accounts and marketing as well and teach apprentices, neither have a university degree, are they unintelligent by your standards?
46
02/03/2021 10:39:51 0 9
bbc
I heard of a university student who averaged over 80% in written assignments. They failed their exam which was another written assignment, so why if they averaged over 80% did they fail the exam. I think that was a case for money back and an investigation into the institution.
53
VoR
02/03/2021 10:44:03 5 1
bbc
Maybe the exam controlled the conditions under which they were writing better. Who knows? Maybe the person doesn't perform well in exam conditions? Maybe a different person marked the exam? Maybe the exam was better scrutinised/moderated? You yourself note that the person averaged over 80%. But perhaps that average included the odd assignment that got 60, say.
71
02/03/2021 10:41:55 4 1
bbc
Well we all have off days don't we.
98
02/03/2021 11:08:12 2 1
bbc
A guy I studied with was in a similar situation. Aced every essay, failed the exam outright. He was livid. When he explained how he'd answered the exam questions it became very clear that he'd simply not answered the questions that were there. They sounded like brilliant answers but they weren't answering the questions that were set. It's the most basic rule of an exam - answer the darn question!
They probably didn't write enough about far left wing agendas and promote it enough in their exams. Would have gotten 100% pass rate if they did. Removed
32
02/03/2021 10:31:17 6 17
bbc
The truth is that the vast majority of students have been robbed blind. The covid risk to them is negligible, and for most university staff it is tiny.

These young people have been sold down the river by their colleges and a selfish society.

No ifs, no buts, no maybes. All aspects of university life should have continued as normal. Students have a right to enjoy what WE enjoyed at their age.
47
FF
02/03/2021 10:41:06 2 2
bbc
"The Covid risk to them is negligible and for most university staff it is tiny"

You can keep your No ifs, no buts, no maybes, we had student campuses lockdown due to outbreaks and whilst you may declare everything is grand with no virology or epidemiology qualifications to your name, the simple fact that it increased the spread was why experts chose to close them.

You are wrong.
83
02/03/2021 10:47:49 2 4
bbc
"You are wrong."

Or maybe I'm just not totally selfish! Even at 63, I'm not in the least bit frightened by this virus. I want to see young people have the same educational opportunities that I was given. I want them to enjoy the rich kind of student life I enjoyed.

I'm not prepared to steal this from them just to very slightly reduce my chance of dying. It's about being a decent human being.
40
02/03/2021 10:38:08 1 3
bbc
Any modern country should be promoting enhanced education for young people. For far too long, university was the domain of the middle class. All Tony Blair did was try to stop that becoming the future. As a graduate health professional from a working class background, I am pleased some people think my academic ability should not have been squashed due to my family background.
48
02/03/2021 10:41:07 3 1
bbc
The old system was based entirely on academic ability not ability to pay.
The system as it is, is really a squeezed middle.
49
Ian
02/03/2021 10:41:30 6 5
bbc
"A university has been ordered to pay a student £5,000 in compensation for lost teaching time during England's first lockdown"

?? I wonder which university that was?

?? It was a priority in many universities to ensure that teaching time continued at the same rate during lockdown

?? Not all universities are the same!

?? Lecturers have also helped lots of students with mental health issues
I wonder if they'll have to lay out for the lost teaching time when all their far left wing lecturers were out on the streets rioting, looting and toppling statues?

I hope so but doubt they will.
Removed
23
02/03/2021 10:33:11 6 20
bbc
I wonder what you think "the price they paid" is? Education is not like PPE, you cannot ask your mates to find factories churning out batches of low-quality products, and whack on whatever profit margin you think you can get away with. Universities have fixed costs.
50
02/03/2021 10:43:03 8 3
bbc
There are stacks of universities churning out low quality product.

There are 20-30 universities that provide genuinely good education and at the end, a certificate that will launch a career. The rest are money making conveyor belts with mediocre teaching leading to a certificate that genuine graduate employers will turn their nose up at.

Thank Blair and his '50% to uni' policy for that.
51
02/03/2021 10:43:32 30 14
bbc
Nobody is going to get their money back.

Universities have far far bigger things to worry about than teaching - what about safe spaces, personal pronouns and gender fluidity?
90
02/03/2021 10:54:28 27 5
bbc
Don't forget electing a middle class idiot to the student union who thinks all WW1 remembrance statues and plagues should be erased from memory, as she did not have a bloody clue about our history.
153
02/03/2021 12:26:23 5 1
bbc
When I was at uni, talk of gender fluidity would normally result in someone looking for a mop and bucket, or Kleenex at least.
33
Ian
02/03/2021 10:35:36 5 6
bbc
Who says the "vendor" has failed to deliver? Many university lecturers have worked hard to deliver and deliver well!
52
02/03/2021 10:43:50 2 1
bbc
The article.
67
Ian
02/03/2021 10:49:47 3 2
bbc
The article says one university has failed to deliver, not all.
46
02/03/2021 10:39:51 0 9
bbc
I heard of a university student who averaged over 80% in written assignments. They failed their exam which was another written assignment, so why if they averaged over 80% did they fail the exam. I think that was a case for money back and an investigation into the institution.
53
VoR
02/03/2021 10:44:03 5 1
bbc
Maybe the exam controlled the conditions under which they were writing better. Who knows? Maybe the person doesn't perform well in exam conditions? Maybe a different person marked the exam? Maybe the exam was better scrutinised/moderated? You yourself note that the person averaged over 80%. But perhaps that average included the odd assignment that got 60, say.
8
02/03/2021 10:24:45 10 20
bbc
Don't go to university during a pandemic and expect your money's worth. Should've waited a year and had a much better experience, socially and academically, post pandemic.
54
02/03/2021 10:44:26 0 2
bbc
Wow - blame the students for lack of foresight and clairvoyance.
55
02/03/2021 10:36:12 4 2
bbc
One would assume that as 99% of students receive a Tuition Fee loan, this isn't a refund directly to the students, but to the Student Loans Company?
56
VoR
02/03/2021 10:45:17 5 1
bbc
To me, this example is less of an issue than the degrees that would never be worth anything under any circumstances, but still cost nearly (or actually) 9k per year. They are the rule rather than the exception.
122
02/03/2021 11:20:36 4 2
bbc
It's insane how so many people willing get into debt for courses they know aren't worth the paper they're written on yet expect the taxpayers to refund them!?
57
02/03/2021 10:46:25 4 6
bbc
Dear UK univ students (AND international students if you risk yourself to catch the UK variants after being charged three times more than locals)

It is disgraceful and totally unacceptable not to refund part of your tuition fee by the shameless UK universities with literally studying your courses (without essential practices) zooming at home and most of you paid accommodations without being used
58
02/03/2021 10:46:52 9 2
bbc
It's business as usual - everyone wants someone to blame for their predicament and to foot the bill.

It is just a case of where the buck stops - the student, the university, the sudent loans fund, the taxpayer.
119
02/03/2021 11:19:20 4 6
bbc
Why would the taxpayers pick up the bill for someone who chose to go to uni? They picked their uni and the agreement was between those 2 parties.
32
02/03/2021 10:31:17 6 17
bbc
The truth is that the vast majority of students have been robbed blind. The covid risk to them is negligible, and for most university staff it is tiny.

These young people have been sold down the river by their colleges and a selfish society.

No ifs, no buts, no maybes. All aspects of university life should have continued as normal. Students have a right to enjoy what WE enjoyed at their age.
59
VoR
02/03/2021 10:47:01 3 2
bbc
Which would all make sense... if there weren't students with underlying health conditions and if students in general weren't carrying out activities that act as superspreading events, before sharing the contagion from those events with those of different age groups.
42
02/03/2021 10:38:38 5 8
bbc
The vendor has delivered, but in an online form. This has been forced upon universities, and pretty much every other 'vendor' across the world because of this pandemic. But students are still learning and getting degrees. What they are missing out on is the social side of things.
60
02/03/2021 10:47:14 7 2
bbc
As a father of two that are home schooling I can tell you now that it is no substitute for face to face learning. Even the best lecturers or teachers can't make up for the lack of idea sharing and immediacy. As for the social side, a large part of the payment made by students is to rent rooms and halls. Which, no matter whose fault it was, haven't been needed.
21
Ian
02/03/2021 10:32:30 63 13
bbc
??????? The vast majority of university lecturers have been working like mad to make the student experience as good as possible

??????? In many cases this has involved rapid development of many high quality materials in addition to live sessions

??????? This has been a very stressful time for uni lecturers. It has not been a picnic.

??????? Many students appreciate the hard work of lecturers
61
02/03/2021 10:47:18 11 3
bbc
I agree completely. However, there has also been a noticeable drop-off in some areas with interaction, even with the tools being there to enable it. Discussion groups, feedback on papers, and so forth (of course everyone's experience will differ) but if the full price in a bau year is £10k (for example), and the service isn't there, a refund should be made.
110
Ian
02/03/2021 11:14:31 6 4
bbc
" there has also been a noticeable drop-off in some areas with interaction"

It's a 2 way street. A lot of students have seen the pandemic as an excuse to take a holiday, and then blame the university.

Also, a lot of students have suffered huge mental health problems.

Either way, it's not the fault of the lecturer or a reflection of the quality of their work.
35
02/03/2021 10:36:18 45 12
bbc
I'm a university lecturer. Lockdown has crippling impact on workload. Lectures & seminars now take much longer and are emotionally exhausting, trying to remain energetic & positive while talking to a machine. Working from home has massively increased admin. Little tasks that used to take 10 minutes now require days of back/forth emailing, constant meetings, emails 24/7. Totally exhausted.
62
02/03/2021 10:47:27 9 40
bbc
You need to work smarter and embrace technology. Working from home should be easier. Create templates, regular meetings as much as possible. I run up to 37 meetings a week. The main issue is lack of human contact and bring able to write and draw on a wipeboard. Agreed running alot of lectures on calls is tiring, but surely so is face to face.
157
02/03/2021 12:31:44 0 2
bbc
a lot not alot.
158
02/03/2021 12:33:16 3 2
bbc
37 meetings? A meeting is not the same as trying to teach students when we would normally be teaching them face to face. I think you have no idea what you are talking about. Yes face to face can be tiring. It is nothing when compared to the stress and extra workload this way of doing our jobs demands.
177
02/03/2021 14:38:25 1 0
bbc
Online whiteboard software is available. It's invaluable when giving supervisions - I keep wanting to jump up & scribble on the board in my office, but can go online, share my screen & have the same effect with my student.
32
02/03/2021 10:31:17 6 17
bbc
The truth is that the vast majority of students have been robbed blind. The covid risk to them is negligible, and for most university staff it is tiny.

These young people have been sold down the river by their colleges and a selfish society.

No ifs, no buts, no maybes. All aspects of university life should have continued as normal. Students have a right to enjoy what WE enjoyed at their age.
63
02/03/2021 10:39:03 3 4
bbc
Students have a right to enjoy what WE enjoyed at their age.

Numerous unemployed and shortages thanks to Thatcher? :)
127
02/03/2021 11:27:19 1 1
bbc
"thanks to Thatcher" The 1960's called, they said they want they're politics back.

Thatcher was just paying off the IMF bailout loan (largest in history) that many countries picked up in the 1970s due to fashion of experimenting with socialism in the preceding years. Other smaller economies are still destroyed today because they still have that original loan and cant even pay the interest now.
28
02/03/2021 10:35:01 3 7
bbc
If you, "the public", choose not to fund certain courses, you, "the public", will have to get a better first aid book as opposed to expect doctors and nurses to learn how to save your life....
64
02/03/2021 10:48:10 6 1
bbc
We have no objection to paying for useful degrees for people who provide quality services for us. However, we see no reason to pay for Mickey Mouse degrees for low quality students. Before Covid 24% of baristas for a well known chain had degrees which we paid for. A waste of our money and their time sending them to University.
65
VoR
02/03/2021 10:48:21 6 3
bbc
There would seem to be a lot of circumstances that would warrant a full or partial refund. However, the reality is that unis will not have insured themselves against this, and would collapse if they paid. Hence no one will make them pay.
128
02/03/2021 11:27:45 3 4
bbc
Aslong as the taxpayer isn't footing the bill for students who want a refund on their useless courses then its fine
66
02/03/2021 10:49:04 10 4
bbc
Something of a dangerous precedent methinks - refunding monies paid to a supplier who then underperforms, arguably through no fault of their own. I wonder where that leaves such august institutions of fairness and humanity as utility companies and local and national governments?
Meanwhile, let's hope that more students get at least part of their accomodation and education fees refunded.
52
02/03/2021 10:43:50 2 1
bbc
The article.
67
Ian
02/03/2021 10:49:47 3 2
bbc
The article says one university has failed to deliver, not all.
10
02/03/2021 10:26:20 3 5
bbc
I imagine a lot of people would be planning this, resulting in a bumper year for people applying, reducing the chances of getting a place at Uni.
68
FF
02/03/2021 10:50:09 0 1
bbc
What's going to be worse is an influx of qualified graduates coming into a market that is about to crumble.

There just won't be enough jobs to go around the high qualifiers.
30
02/03/2021 10:35:26 21 6
bbc
All students should have a refund......betcha Vice Chancellors have received their same vastly inflated salaries during all of this....
69
02/03/2021 10:40:37 3 6
bbc
And where does that money come from? The highest cost of any organisation is usually the staff. They still need paying. As the poster "Imperator" said, they're still working their socks off.
8
02/03/2021 10:24:45 10 20
bbc
Don't go to university during a pandemic and expect your money's worth. Should've waited a year and had a much better experience, socially and academically, post pandemic.
70
02/03/2021 10:41:46 1 2
bbc
What about the people who were at university when the pandemic hit?
46
02/03/2021 10:39:51 0 9
bbc
I heard of a university student who averaged over 80% in written assignments. They failed their exam which was another written assignment, so why if they averaged over 80% did they fail the exam. I think that was a case for money back and an investigation into the institution.
71
02/03/2021 10:41:55 4 1
bbc
Well we all have off days don't we.
72
02/03/2021 10:50:37 9 8
bbc
Why is this front page news?

Can we please remember that UK universities were instrumental in developing vaccine responses to COVID-19 - we should support and be proud of our world-class higher educations system, not bashing it because one student got a complaint upheld. Particularly around things like fees which are a result of government intent to commercialise the HE market in this country,.
103
02/03/2021 11:04:31 1 4
bbc
The Tories have been instrumental in making the rich even richer and the poor even poorer, but it does not mean we should congratulate them, your argument makes no sense at all.
125
02/03/2021 11:23:09 1 2
bbc
Proud of institutions that suppress free speech, encourage far leftwing agendas and try to rewrite our history?

Universities need a purge to rid themselves of these radical lecturers before ill ever be proud of them.
16
02/03/2021 10:30:34 16 8
bbc
Before some people start belittling young people for not fighting in a world war (by people who also didn't fight in any war) do pause and ask yourself if you'd be happy paying £9k a term, plus accommodation rent, plus course materials etc as a time when its hard to get work in so many areas.

This seems like a fair judgment.
73
VoR
02/03/2021 10:51:05 3 3
bbc
Depends entirely on the degree. If it adds more value than I'm paying, I'd take the hit in most areas (e.g. fees). Frankly, I can't think of any of my course that really required attendance in person. Yes, I couldn't have done the lab work, but I could have covered the experiments (e.g. measuring the speed of light) at a theoretical level and gained 99% of what I did from doing the experiment.
206
02/03/2021 22:36:14 0 0
bbc
You obviously don't have a job now in any practical scientific area. Really skilled experimental scientists need a lot of practical experience in a lab just in order to know how to run an experiment properly and be able to reproduce the results accurately. Probably takes around 20 years full time work to be a really proficient experimental physicist.
9
02/03/2021 10:26:11 22 18
bbc
So 'we', the public, should pay for a select number to go to university?
74
02/03/2021 10:43:20 1 3
bbc
Yes. After all, we pay for a select few to go to prison, have their children taken away by social services, call an ambulance etc. It's called society. Graduates then go onto pay higher taxes as a result of earning more.
35
02/03/2021 10:36:18 45 12
bbc
I'm a university lecturer. Lockdown has crippling impact on workload. Lectures & seminars now take much longer and are emotionally exhausting, trying to remain energetic & positive while talking to a machine. Working from home has massively increased admin. Little tasks that used to take 10 minutes now require days of back/forth emailing, constant meetings, emails 24/7. Totally exhausted.
75
02/03/2021 10:51:56 8 4
bbc
I no longer teach at uni, but totally agree that the actual burden on teaching staff is going to be increased. Not only will staff have to rework all teaching materials for online learning, but the effort getting students to engage is exhausting enough when in a face to face environment. However, no one seems to think of this when looking at refunds.
21
Ian
02/03/2021 10:32:30 63 13
bbc
??????? The vast majority of university lecturers have been working like mad to make the student experience as good as possible

??????? In many cases this has involved rapid development of many high quality materials in addition to live sessions

??????? This has been a very stressful time for uni lecturers. It has not been a picnic.

??????? Many students appreciate the hard work of lecturers
76
02/03/2021 10:52:08 5 16
bbc
So lecturers have had to do a proper day's work for once in their lives.
159
02/03/2021 12:35:33 2 3
bbc
Try it some time. Oh, hang on, you probably aren't of a high enough intelligence
77
02/03/2021 10:53:11 8 8
bbc
Universities are working harder and still delivering a university education, so why should they reduce fees? I've had to queue outside supermarkets only to find they had no toilet roll, so I guess I should expect lower prices as my shopping experience wasn't up to par.
80
FF
02/03/2021 10:56:33 3 4
bbc
Your analogy of toilet roll to Universities is one of the craziest things I have ever heard.

Not sure if you are serious?
78
02/03/2021 10:55:41 2 15
bbc
Yet again Scotland shows up little enland by doing the right thing by it`s next generation, free uni education. Shame on you england
88
02/03/2021 11:02:01 13 2
bbc
Paid for by subsidies from the English Taxpayer
92
02/03/2021 11:04:57 2 3
bbc
As a law grad myself, I disagree with you here. Why should the tax-payer pay for an individual to gain the upper hand? Universities are still private businesses, you still need to pay for your course with NO loans available for Open Uni, and the multitude of online sites. Student loans are graduate taxes - and I shall have paid mine off by October this year - yay!
93
02/03/2021 11:05:39 3 2
bbc
Perhaps your wonderful Scottish ejucashun didn't teach you where to put the apostrophe in its. Shoulda tried harder at skool My Love. FYI there is no apostrophe in your sentence. You're welcome.
99
02/03/2021 11:08:44 5 2
bbc
And that attitude is why the Scots will gain independence just as soon as the English can vote as well.
101
02/03/2021 11:02:35 2 2
bbc
You are right, but why does Scotland get a capital letter, but England does not?
104
02/03/2021 11:10:12 4 2
bbc
Silly comment, for a start Scotland's "free uni education" is paid for by the UK tax payer (no such thing as "free" BTW) and the system in Scotland is actually making university places less available to poorer kids. Scotland (well, the SNP, it's unfair to blame all the Scots) have been racking up massive debts for years knowing that the UK government pick up the tab.
140
02/03/2021 11:46:26 1 3
bbc
Why should it be free? After the age of 18 education is voluntary so why should the tax payers who does not go to university subsidise those at do? Shame on you Scotland.
170
02/03/2021 13:38:38 1 1
bbc
Little England? You realise the entire population of Scotland is less than some counties in England yeah?
Thinking really isn't your thing. Just sit down and enjoy your English subsidised life.
45
02/03/2021 10:39:16 5 26
bbc
The reality is, 50% of them still don't though. What issue do you have with people who are intelligent enough to do a degree course? Do you want a nation of shopkeepers and plumbers?
79
02/03/2021 10:56:21 28 3
bbc
I would prefer to invest in decently prepared plumbers etc who provide value and do necessary jobs than the poor quality "graduates" who struggle to find jobs as baristas
77
02/03/2021 10:53:11 8 8
bbc
Universities are working harder and still delivering a university education, so why should they reduce fees? I've had to queue outside supermarkets only to find they had no toilet roll, so I guess I should expect lower prices as my shopping experience wasn't up to par.
80
FF
02/03/2021 10:56:33 3 4
bbc
Your analogy of toilet roll to Universities is one of the craziest things I have ever heard.

Not sure if you are serious?
Removed
150
02/03/2021 12:06:58 1 2
bbc
Not sure if you are deliberately trying to miss the point of the initial comment.
81
02/03/2021 10:56:51 5 10
bbc
They'll be able to buy their take away pizza, booze and dope with that...study?
34
MCF
02/03/2021 10:35:46 1 4
bbc
You missed the fact that fees tripled under the Conservative/LibDem alliance. They had the opportunity to reform fees but didn't.
82
02/03/2021 10:56:54 2 2
bbc
Blair also axed maintenance grants for students from low-income families at the same time as introducing tuition fees. A double-whammy.
47
FF
02/03/2021 10:41:06 2 2
bbc
"The Covid risk to them is negligible and for most university staff it is tiny"

You can keep your No ifs, no buts, no maybes, we had student campuses lockdown due to outbreaks and whilst you may declare everything is grand with no virology or epidemiology qualifications to your name, the simple fact that it increased the spread was why experts chose to close them.

You are wrong.
83
02/03/2021 10:47:49 2 4
bbc
"You are wrong."

Or maybe I'm just not totally selfish! Even at 63, I'm not in the least bit frightened by this virus. I want to see young people have the same educational opportunities that I was given. I want them to enjoy the rich kind of student life I enjoyed.

I'm not prepared to steal this from them just to very slightly reduce my chance of dying. It's about being a decent human being.
94
FF
02/03/2021 11:05:39 2 1
bbc
Well you just hit your own nail on the head.

THIS ISN'T ABOUT YOU DAVID.

No point in virtue signalling that you are a "decent human being" because you don't give a fork about the virus.

None of us are "stealing" anything from anyone, it's hardly being selfish to not follow you AND risk others, wise up.

Your original comment is going "down" very well.

You are selfish in your own way.
84
02/03/2021 10:59:54 12 4
bbc
Student were lured to attend university to lock them into financial contracts for their accommodation and formal start of year sign-up, then hit with the truth of lockdowns in their halls of residence and lectures online. They were deliberately sucker-punched.
111
02/03/2021 11:15:28 8 2
bbc
I would feel gutted as a student caught out by this. Effectively paying £9k per year plus accommodation for an open uni course
123
02/03/2021 11:21:21 4 1
bbc
Which if true, should be resolved between the students and the universities. Taxpayers shouldn't be footing the bill for this.
85
02/03/2021 11:00:50 10 1
bbc
"Scrap interest on student loans say Uni Bosses" - cut the cost of the tuition says everyone else!
169
02/03/2021 13:37:36 0 0
bbc
Actually in the long run the interest rate is a far bigger problem in the long run. Particularly when your having 9% taken out of your wages for years. But the biggest issues are, costs of going to a uni you can’t commute to from home (adds another 20k ish at least), and the devaluation of degrees due to allowing in more people. Plus the fact that a 2:1 is now worth less because of grade inflat.
21
Ian
02/03/2021 10:32:30 63 13
bbc
??????? The vast majority of university lecturers have been working like mad to make the student experience as good as possible

??????? In many cases this has involved rapid development of many high quality materials in addition to live sessions

??????? This has been a very stressful time for uni lecturers. It has not been a picnic.

??????? Many students appreciate the hard work of lecturers
86
02/03/2021 11:01:22 2 9
bbc
I'm sure they have, but the question us, why weren't they before. Always find academics need to embrace tech more.
38
Si
02/03/2021 10:37:56 1 3
bbc
Free education?
87
02/03/2021 10:51:28 1 3
bbc
My education was free (with a grant and travel paid), but I'd still have been truly devastated if what has been done to these young people had been done to me. To be honest, at that age I might well have needed some serious psychiatric help, if this had been done to me.
151
02/03/2021 12:21:47 2 1
bbc
Yeah, but previous generations would have taken to the streets. This lot just head to their room with their phones and sulk about how sad they are & cancel people use speech they hate. Its a generation that doesn't value their freedoms, or at least not enough to get off their backside to fight for them, so perhaps don't deserve what you experienced? There's a bit of an onus on them to make a stand
78
02/03/2021 10:55:41 2 15
bbc
Yet again Scotland shows up little enland by doing the right thing by it`s next generation, free uni education. Shame on you england
88
02/03/2021 11:02:01 13 2
bbc
Paid for by subsidies from the English Taxpayer
14
02/03/2021 10:29:13 69 16
bbc
good old Tony insisting 50% of population need to go to university
89
02/03/2021 11:02:42 5 6
bbc
It wasn't 50% going to university. It was 50% going into higher education, that could mean university, or a Higher National Diploma, or a degree apprenticeship...
51
02/03/2021 10:43:32 30 14
bbc
Nobody is going to get their money back.

Universities have far far bigger things to worry about than teaching - what about safe spaces, personal pronouns and gender fluidity?
90
02/03/2021 10:54:28 27 5
bbc
Don't forget electing a middle class idiot to the student union who thinks all WW1 remembrance statues and plagues should be erased from memory, as she did not have a bloody clue about our history.
91
dan
02/03/2021 11:03:35 3 3
bbc
Hopefully this will be commonplace and more unis will do this. I'm in 1st year in a course with lots of practical work and there is no way that anyone could even begin to argue that the experience is in any way the same or up to standard it normally would be in terms of workshop access.

I'm hopeful that with the vaccine the summer term will be much better after easter to help us catch up.
78
02/03/2021 10:55:41 2 15
bbc
Yet again Scotland shows up little enland by doing the right thing by it`s next generation, free uni education. Shame on you england
92
02/03/2021 11:04:57 2 3
bbc
As a law grad myself, I disagree with you here. Why should the tax-payer pay for an individual to gain the upper hand? Universities are still private businesses, you still need to pay for your course with NO loans available for Open Uni, and the multitude of online sites. Student loans are graduate taxes - and I shall have paid mine off by October this year - yay!
78
02/03/2021 10:55:41 2 15
bbc
Yet again Scotland shows up little enland by doing the right thing by it`s next generation, free uni education. Shame on you england
93
02/03/2021 11:05:39 3 2
bbc
Perhaps your wonderful Scottish ejucashun didn't teach you where to put the apostrophe in its. Shoulda tried harder at skool My Love. FYI there is no apostrophe in your sentence. You're welcome.
83
02/03/2021 10:47:49 2 4
bbc
"You are wrong."

Or maybe I'm just not totally selfish! Even at 63, I'm not in the least bit frightened by this virus. I want to see young people have the same educational opportunities that I was given. I want them to enjoy the rich kind of student life I enjoyed.

I'm not prepared to steal this from them just to very slightly reduce my chance of dying. It's about being a decent human being.
94
FF
02/03/2021 11:05:39 2 1
bbc
Well you just hit your own nail on the head.

THIS ISN'T ABOUT YOU DAVID.

No point in virtue signalling that you are a "decent human being" because you don't give a fork about the virus.

None of us are "stealing" anything from anyone, it's hardly being selfish to not follow you AND risk others, wise up.

Your original comment is going "down" very well.

You are selfish in your own way.
95
02/03/2021 11:05:52 3 3
bbc
When travel is cancelled people get a full refund.

It seems appalling that students can't get a refund for the face to face teaching, practical experience, and other aspects of the experience they are not getting due to the pandemic.

It also seems appalling that some are having to pay for accommodation they can't use or don't need due to on-line learning.
131
02/03/2021 11:31:13 2 2
bbc
But if the unis gave everyone a refund who would pay for their lecturers coach trips for their statue toppling jaunts or pay for far left wing speakers to come tell students how much they should be ashamed of themselves!?
21
Ian
02/03/2021 10:32:30 63 13
bbc
??????? The vast majority of university lecturers have been working like mad to make the student experience as good as possible

??????? In many cases this has involved rapid development of many high quality materials in addition to live sessions

??????? This has been a very stressful time for uni lecturers. It has not been a picnic.

??????? Many students appreciate the hard work of lecturers
96
dan
02/03/2021 11:06:36 9 1
bbc
Absolutely, as a student I really appreciate what the lecturers have done. Yet despite all of that effort I bet every one of those lecturers would admit that the courses HAVEN'T been up to the same standard as they normally are, at least in my course which involves numerous practical's which have had to be postponed/binned.

It's possible to commend lecturers and still think students should get £
97
02/03/2021 11:07:52 0 3
bbc
Seems totally fair to me - less teaching, less value
46
02/03/2021 10:39:51 0 9
bbc
I heard of a university student who averaged over 80% in written assignments. They failed their exam which was another written assignment, so why if they averaged over 80% did they fail the exam. I think that was a case for money back and an investigation into the institution.
98
02/03/2021 11:08:12 2 1
bbc
A guy I studied with was in a similar situation. Aced every essay, failed the exam outright. He was livid. When he explained how he'd answered the exam questions it became very clear that he'd simply not answered the questions that were there. They sounded like brilliant answers but they weren't answering the questions that were set. It's the most basic rule of an exam - answer the darn question!
143
02/03/2021 11:57:33 2 1
bbc
Yep! Always read the question very carefully, it sound like he had become complacent, such a shame.
78
02/03/2021 10:55:41 2 15
bbc
Yet again Scotland shows up little enland by doing the right thing by it`s next generation, free uni education. Shame on you england
99
02/03/2021 11:08:44 5 2
bbc
And that attitude is why the Scots will gain independence just as soon as the English can vote as well.
100
02/03/2021 11:08:45 8 4
bbc
Most courses these places offer are "less valuable".

All courses have no value at Universities which are bascially converted swimming pools; Bolton, Bath Spa, Suffolk, London Met, Brighton.

What a waste of time and students'/ tax payers' money.

Reduce number of universities by half, then invest into skills schemes (plumbers, electricians, accounting, business admin, things we need)