Cumbria coal mine plan 'damaging PM's reputation'
01/03/2021 | news | science | 489
Foreign ambassadors say Boris Johnson's tacit support for the mine prompts accusations of hypocrisy.
1
01/03/2021 10:54:57 7 12
bbc
I would have thought it would be impossible to damage the PM's reputation any further.
10
MVS
01/03/2021 11:02:47 10 7
bbc
But the BBC, aided and abetted by its on-line trolls will keep on trying.
2
01/03/2021 10:55:28 118 5
bbc
Some confusion sown by the journalist, here. No-one is struggling to make low-carbon steel. They are struggling to make steel with a low carbon footprint. Low-carbon steel is a material with little carbon in it. It is what your grandad called "mild" steel.
7
MVS
01/03/2021 10:59:53 51 11
bbc
It's Roger Hairpin. What else do you expect?
15
01/03/2021 11:10:52 20 3
bbc
Totally agree. A low carbon steel can be produced easily, but that doesn't mean it is suitable for application.

A component drawing will specify a material requirement. Eg EN8, 316 stainless, 718 Inconel etc.... That will determine what is required, not an ill informed reporter from the BBC
203
01/03/2021 14:30:05 0 1
bbc
HSLA is what is required low carbon and low alloying elements for the car industry!!
399
02/03/2021 11:58:39 5 2
bbc
"Some confusion sown by the journalist, here."

Seems perfectly clear that he is referring to emissions to atmosphere given the story is about the damage to the PM's reputation on the issue of climate change.
3
01/03/2021 10:56:30 7 3
bbc
Yes, much better for the UK to offshore its carbon emissions otherwise it looks bad.
4
01/03/2021 10:51:15 7 8
bbc
'Damaging' - I thought it was already beyond repair.
5
01/03/2021 10:58:39 65 24
bbc
Plenty of nations planning more coal mines & coal-fired power stations, but it's the UK & BJ who are the bad guys - as usual
72
01/03/2021 11:51:26 16 24
bbc
True. As usual.
6
MVS
01/03/2021 10:58:55 78 21
bbc
The BBC have clearly decided to support the anti- Cumbrian coal mine efforts. This is the 3rd or 4th article on this with a negative slant, particularly trying to embroil the PM in a way that undermines all his efforts to lead the climate change conference later this year.
It will be ecologically beneficial to mine coking coal close to the steel plants that need it.
13
01/03/2021 11:00:57 17 49
bbc
But not necessarily to mine a supply that exceeds the local demand by five times and flog the rest off overseas!
70
01/03/2021 11:49:53 2 8
bbc
Cumbria is some way from Margam.
And the climate change conference is about reducing pollutants, e.g. CO2, NOx.
His timing is , as usual, somewhat imperfect.
83
01/03/2021 11:58:01 5 15
bbc
Why do the Tories whine every time the BBC publishes a sorry they don't like. Every time, whinge and whine do give it a rest. Remember the BBC is run by a Tory
2
01/03/2021 10:55:28 118 5
bbc
Some confusion sown by the journalist, here. No-one is struggling to make low-carbon steel. They are struggling to make steel with a low carbon footprint. Low-carbon steel is a material with little carbon in it. It is what your grandad called "mild" steel.
7
MVS
01/03/2021 10:59:53 51 11
bbc
It's Roger Hairpin. What else do you expect?
8
01/03/2021 11:01:40 41 7
bbc
This is a completely misleading leading and disinngenuous story.

The Powering Past Coal Alliance is about using coal for energy generation. The Cumbria mine is for coking coal.

There is no "fine distinction", they are different products for different applications. There are alternatives for generating power, but not for steel processing.

The BBC know this.
105
01/03/2021 12:13:58 7 21
bbc
The BBC is reporting that the distinction is too fine for the taste of many of the nations that the UK wants to lecture about reducing their own carbon emissions. They, like some of us, might think that Boris' sudden interest in the environment is no more than an insincere and transient sop being offered to his current mistress.
111
MVS
01/03/2021 12:19:38 6 1
bbc
BBC does know this, but never makes the distinction in any of its reporting.
Could Mr Harrabin write an article explaining this perhaps.
123
01/03/2021 12:27:01 8 2
bbc
BBC & HarrorBin ar well aware the difference, but seem to relegate the facts to less than 2% of the article. So if they are aware, & then defend the unbalanced reporting then its only means that they are supporting an agenda & dogma.

The BBC article is an opinion piece not a serious attempt at reporting facts or science. Pity BBC still condone Op-ed under the Science banner.
9
01/03/2021 11:02:34 12 11
bbc
The BBC is supposed to report News, and be independant they are not supposed to try to make news nor try to influence people's view They fail miserably as this article shows .
19
01/03/2021 11:08:30 7 10
bbc
You mean the BBC is supposed to report only the News that you want to hear and mustn't report anything that you disagree with.
65
01/03/2021 11:46:36 1 4
bbc
You fail miserably to underdtand that newz is not just what you want it to be.
Were you born in 1984?
115
01/03/2021 12:22:51 2 1
bbc
You are right. Roger Harrobin is very biased & studied English not any STEM subject at university. This article has been reissued about 4-5 time over the last 6 months pushing the same XR agenda: political rather than environmental.

A simple deconstruction of these articles can be found by Mallen Baker:
https://youtu.be/qyldD0oAZfM

Yep this article is of poor quality.
1
01/03/2021 10:54:57 7 12
bbc
I would have thought it would be impossible to damage the PM's reputation any further.
10
MVS
01/03/2021 11:02:47 10 7
bbc
But the BBC, aided and abetted by its on-line trolls will keep on trying.
86
01/03/2021 11:59:05 1 3
bbc
No, not reacting or attending meetings at the start of the pandemic killing thousands of people aided it.
11
01/03/2021 11:02:48 93 20
bbc
The fact is, this coal is not for power stations but to supply Carbon to steel plants. This is an essential component of steel.

Unless we ban the use of steel, Carbon will be required.

Is it better to mine in in China, and transport it thousands of miles? What is the environmental impact of that?
14
01/03/2021 11:10:42 27 50
bbc
The fact is, that coal is still used for fuel in furnaces producing the steel which still means huge carbon dioxide output. Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352484717300033

Better to further develop existing but early-doors steel making procedures which do not rely on coal.
23
01/03/2021 11:14:11 17 1
bbc
Enviromental impact of shipping coal from China is far larger than coal from home. Espically if we make the steel plant near the site. but people don't like the backyard being polluted. who cares about someone else.
223
Rob
01/03/2021 16:33:37 1 4
bbc
Er ... but this coal will be exported. Very little to be used in UK.

Fact is, there is surplus scrap steel in Europe that can be re-cycled very effectively with no need for carbon or carbon emissions.

Demand for coking call is falling globally - which suggests more isn't needed.
260
01/03/2021 18:32:53 0 4
bbc
Wasn't that one of the reasons for Brexit? Transport stuff thousands of miles, from the other side of the world, rather than a few hundred miles.

Regardless, you don't need fossil fuels to make steel. But it is cheaper. Which is one reason why Johnson wants to allow a new mine.
297
SJ
01/03/2021 20:25:25 0 2
bbc
Fact is, 85% of this coal is for export.
298
SJ
01/03/2021 20:26:51 0 2
bbc
I am in the USA, working on railroad projects. The steel we buy is 98% recycled, using electric arc furnaces. Time to catch up Britain.
314
01/03/2021 22:03:46 4 1
bbc
I find it hard to understand why everyone questions the environmental impact and ignores the ethical one. From an ex coal miner, we were closed because we were more expensive... we were more expensive because we were safer.
370
02/03/2021 09:44:43 2 1
bbc
"Is it better to mine in in China, and transport it thousands of miles"

Of course it is ... every eco warrior knows that when China, Russia, USA and India pump out pollutants they go into a different atmosphere from the UK.

They won't be happy in this country until we're all back in the dark ages, despite the pollution in the UK not being a drop in the ocean compared to global pollution.
484
02/03/2021 17:57:03 0 0
bbc
This is simply not true. You are talking rubbish. Why are you commenting on something you don't understand?
Blast furnaces need coal, but there is an alternative technology called an Electric Arc Furnace (EAF). This is responsible for approximately 30% of the world's steel production and does not require coal.
12
01/03/2021 11:04:45 16 12
bbc
The BBC is Greta's friend. This is coking coal for steel production and 80% of it will be exported. We need steel production no matter what.
35
01/03/2021 11:25:25 9 4
bbc
Indeed and I'd like to know which diplomats they were ?

US, Chinese, Polish, German, South African, Canadian, Australian, Indian, Russian...and so forth. See a pattern here ?
62
01/03/2021 11:43:02 2 6
bbc
Good for the BBC. I am too.
6
MVS
01/03/2021 10:58:55 78 21
bbc
The BBC have clearly decided to support the anti- Cumbrian coal mine efforts. This is the 3rd or 4th article on this with a negative slant, particularly trying to embroil the PM in a way that undermines all his efforts to lead the climate change conference later this year.
It will be ecologically beneficial to mine coking coal close to the steel plants that need it.
13
01/03/2021 11:00:57 17 49
bbc
But not necessarily to mine a supply that exceeds the local demand by five times and flog the rest off overseas!
17
MVS
01/03/2021 11:11:39 16 5
bbc
Silly me! It must be better to let other countries do that and destroy the planet? Of course!!
141
01/03/2021 12:44:00 7 2
bbc
To Europe, thus saving all the emissions from THEM having to buy coal from the US or Australia.
226
01/03/2021 16:56:42 7 2
bbc
So you rather it all come from China?

Causing more emissions then mining it in the UK?
258
01/03/2021 18:27:38 4 1
bbc
Of course it is, economies of scale.
If you only take what is needed here, then it become barely economically viable.
329
02/03/2021 06:14:12 2 1
bbc
Again here you are with green wash BS...wake up do some research.
11
01/03/2021 11:02:48 93 20
bbc
The fact is, this coal is not for power stations but to supply Carbon to steel plants. This is an essential component of steel.

Unless we ban the use of steel, Carbon will be required.

Is it better to mine in in China, and transport it thousands of miles? What is the environmental impact of that?
14
01/03/2021 11:10:42 27 50
bbc
The fact is, that coal is still used for fuel in furnaces producing the steel which still means huge carbon dioxide output. Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352484717300033

Better to further develop existing but early-doors steel making procedures which do not rely on coal.
22
MVS
01/03/2021 11:12:39 18 4
bbc
And halt all current essential use of steel while we wait for that to happen?
25
01/03/2021 11:15:17 14 3
bbc
This might be the case, but that is a different issue. The coal from the new mine can only be used to make steel, not power the steel plants, so is unrelated altogether.
120
Rob
01/03/2021 12:24:43 14 1
bbc
And it's a tiny amount compared to what's released by cement production.. Just one of our cement plants in the UK releases more CO2 than some countries do. But hey, coal is unfashionable!!
132
01/03/2021 12:30:44 9 2
bbc
Economically viable, low CO2 steel production is decades off & won't happen whilst China continues making high CO2 production steel.
If you're in the market for steel & the same quality is four times the price for low CO2, than China's offering, then you'll buy your steel from China.
Oh & NOBODY add punitive tariffs to Chinese steel for environmental reasons...
154
01/03/2021 13:19:14 5 1
bbc
Develop yes and when they are developed the mine will shut due to lack of demand. The point is we're not there yet, in the mean time all the coke for UK and Europe comes from Russia, US and Australia and is shipped thousands of miles burning hundreds of thousands of tons of heavy fuel oil.
254
01/03/2021 18:09:32 3 1
bbc
Do you have any idea where the billions of investment for upgrading all the steel manufacturing sites in the UK to use electricity heated furnaces will come from, plus the number of wind farms to generate that electricity?
326
02/03/2021 06:10:28 2 1
bbc
You cant afford the steel that would be produced by this process nor can anyone else. Wake up and live in the real world, not one filled with greenwash.
2
01/03/2021 10:55:28 118 5
bbc
Some confusion sown by the journalist, here. No-one is struggling to make low-carbon steel. They are struggling to make steel with a low carbon footprint. Low-carbon steel is a material with little carbon in it. It is what your grandad called "mild" steel.
15
01/03/2021 11:10:52 20 3
bbc
Totally agree. A low carbon steel can be produced easily, but that doesn't mean it is suitable for application.

A component drawing will specify a material requirement. Eg EN8, 316 stainless, 718 Inconel etc.... That will determine what is required, not an ill informed reporter from the BBC
94
01/03/2021 12:04:57 7 8
bbc
I do not think that the reporter thinks that "mild" steel is suitable for any particular application. I do not think that he even knows that carbon is a constituent of steel. Even the posters on here who do know that seem mostly unable to differentiate between the carbon in the steel and the carbon footprint of the steel. (You must be quite old to be still calling steels by "emergency" numbers.)
16
01/03/2021 11:11:35 7 14
bbc
Who on earth believes anything that comes out of the mouth of BoJo?
He's only interested in keeping his job.
81
01/03/2021 11:57:20 1 3
bbc
The right wing press brigade.
13
01/03/2021 11:00:57 17 49
bbc
But not necessarily to mine a supply that exceeds the local demand by five times and flog the rest off overseas!
17
MVS
01/03/2021 11:11:39 16 5
bbc
Silly me! It must be better to let other countries do that and destroy the planet? Of course!!
32
01/03/2021 11:15:17 7 23
bbc
Totally silly you in fact as there is no difference in us importing coke and us mining it and exporting it across the world - but who would expect a troll with a large blue rosette to realise that?
18
01/03/2021 11:11:49 13 6
bbc
This plant should be given the go ahead plus reversal of the one refused in Northumberland. Jobs for our people rather than costly and unnecessary import of coal from Russia, China, Poland etc. We will rue the day in due time that we totally sacrificed our coal industry. The extra cost being placed on our Heritage Railways will be a huge burden when we have good quality coal still in this country.
42
01/03/2021 11:29:19 4 15
bbc
You want our climate policy to be decided by the requirements of chuff-chuff hobbyists?
60
01/03/2021 11:42:15 4 1
bbc
I can see the benefit of fulfilling our own needs, but 85% of the planned output is for export.
138
01/03/2021 12:44:00 1 1
bbc
Wait until someone uses the headline "Boris (or Gove) killed the Flying Scotsman".
9
01/03/2021 11:02:34 12 11
bbc
The BBC is supposed to report News, and be independant they are not supposed to try to make news nor try to influence people's view They fail miserably as this article shows .
19
01/03/2021 11:08:30 7 10
bbc
You mean the BBC is supposed to report only the News that you want to hear and mustn't report anything that you disagree with.
20
01/03/2021 11:12:24 35 3
bbc
The problem is as of now there is no real alternative to carbon for steel, steel thats needed for the wind turbines that are oh so green. until a real alternative is found caking coal is needed.
34
01/03/2021 11:24:50 4 15
bbc
Why not at Margam where there is a Steel Works right on top of it, the plans were given the go ahead only for Cameron to stop it, the Coking Coal there is far higher quality than Cumbrian Coal, methinks it was not a Coal Mine perhaps a nuclear dumping ground for Sellafield.
57
01/03/2021 11:40:07 1 6
bbc
Thought we were developing world-beating carbon capture system?
Coke is carbon, why not use that? Develop that technology?
We are not a massive steel producer now, and will not be again.
488
RPH
02/03/2021 23:56:13 0 0
bbc
Good job the guy who invented the car didn't subscribe to the "There is no alternative' philosophy; we'd still be riding horses. Well, that's if we ever got past the 'there is no alternatives to walking' crowd...
21
01/03/2021 11:12:29 8 10
bbc
Damaging his reputation. lol.? Reputation for what?
38
01/03/2021 11:26:05 5 4
bbc
He must keep up his reputation for telling porky pies, it was not a coal mine, it is a Nuclear dumping site.
14
01/03/2021 11:10:42 27 50
bbc
The fact is, that coal is still used for fuel in furnaces producing the steel which still means huge carbon dioxide output. Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352484717300033

Better to further develop existing but early-doors steel making procedures which do not rely on coal.
22
MVS
01/03/2021 11:12:39 18 4
bbc
And halt all current essential use of steel while we wait for that to happen?
11
01/03/2021 11:02:48 93 20
bbc
The fact is, this coal is not for power stations but to supply Carbon to steel plants. This is an essential component of steel.

Unless we ban the use of steel, Carbon will be required.

Is it better to mine in in China, and transport it thousands of miles? What is the environmental impact of that?
23
01/03/2021 11:14:11 17 1
bbc
Enviromental impact of shipping coal from China is far larger than coal from home. Espically if we make the steel plant near the site. but people don't like the backyard being polluted. who cares about someone else.
24
01/03/2021 11:14:40 5 8
bbc
... coal is no longer needed for primary steel smelting ... electric arc furnaces are suitable to replace blast furnaces ... plus the need for primary steel production has diminished as a result of recycling
... here's a good idea ... stop exporting scrap metal including decommissioned ships
50
01/03/2021 11:34:01 6 1
bbc
Chemistry fail, electric arc furnaces are only useful for recycling scrap steel, you still need a reducing agent (carbon monoxide) to process iron ore, hydrogen is being investigated but is still way off and is currently projected to be far more expensive.
162
01/03/2021 13:21:26 0 1
bbc
You're completely wrong..
Arc furnaces are used to process steel which has already been made & cannot replace blast furnaces.
14
01/03/2021 11:10:42 27 50
bbc
The fact is, that coal is still used for fuel in furnaces producing the steel which still means huge carbon dioxide output. Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352484717300033

Better to further develop existing but early-doors steel making procedures which do not rely on coal.
25
01/03/2021 11:15:17 14 3
bbc
This might be the case, but that is a different issue. The coal from the new mine can only be used to make steel, not power the steel plants, so is unrelated altogether.
26
01/03/2021 11:18:17 3 22
bbc
It doesn't matter what its use is. It matters that it will be getting converted into carbon dioxide. Whether it's for power plants or steelmaking it's the same carbon dioxide which contributes to damaging the planet for EVERYONE.
25
01/03/2021 11:15:17 14 3
bbc
This might be the case, but that is a different issue. The coal from the new mine can only be used to make steel, not power the steel plants, so is unrelated altogether.
26
01/03/2021 11:18:17 3 22
bbc
It doesn't matter what its use is. It matters that it will be getting converted into carbon dioxide. Whether it's for power plants or steelmaking it's the same carbon dioxide which contributes to damaging the planet for EVERYONE.
61
01/03/2021 11:42:37 20 2
bbc
Jerry. I'm guessing you don't drive, cars use carbon steel, you don't use public transport, buses and trains are all are made with carbon steel, you don't live in a flat the frame of which is made with carbon steel, nothing in your house or anything you use during your day is made with carbon steel. I also guess you only eat organic food that is transported to you by horse and cart.... yeh, right
108
01/03/2021 12:16:09 11 2
bbc
And there you go & destroy your own argument. To you its not the least CO2 emissions its the fact that there is any CO2. So you argue dogma over science.

You may be unaware that the internet & the bbc generate a lot of CO2. So doesnt that mean you have double standards?
124
01/03/2021 12:27:06 10 3
bbc
So you personally are going to give up everything you own made of steel. Oh, and while you're at it everything made of plastic which comes from nasty oil.
Dream on.
149
01/03/2021 13:01:02 5 1
bbc
So what is your answer? Alternatives are 15 to 20 years away. Do we stop using steel?
27
01/03/2021 11:18:35 29 6
bbc
Wow, talk about forcing an issue. You would expect propaganda like this from a Chinese or Russian journalist.This is for steel production and is a highly modern complex. Its not like the old 'down pit' days.And let us know what countries this decision has apparently offended. What is that born from? Misunderstanding, ignorance or the will to look for any accuse so they don't have to make changes?
253
01/03/2021 18:06:33 7 2
bbc
Harribin wants everyone to live in safer times ..... Like the stone age.
28
01/03/2021 11:19:30 60 12
bbc
Coking steel is still needed to produce steel. Alternative methods are not developed enough and will not be for 20 years or so. We need this mine for the high grade coal that we would just have to import from elsewhere anyway.

I fully support the need to preserve our environment, but the green lobby is turning into a bit of a witch hunt.
30
01/03/2021 11:21:20 16 43
bbc
Why not accelerate focus on these new methods?
They successfully did it with vaccines so there's no reason it can't be done with this other major issue.
36
01/03/2021 11:25:48 3 11
bbc
We're legally required to be net zero carbon by 2050. This mine will take 5 years to build, so how long a working life will it have? 10 years? It's not going to be very useful.

It would be more sensible to invest the money in developing low carbon steel production, which we will need very soon in any case.
29
01/03/2021 11:20:23 1 3
bbc
Strange that Cumbria was chosen if this was essential you would have thought that Margam near Port Talbot would have been the ideal place, considering the plans were already drawn up by the Steel organisations and the mine was given the go ahead only to be stopped by Cameron also the Coal was of a much higher Coking quality than the Cumbrian mine perhaps the mine was going to be for Nuclear waste
52
01/03/2021 11:36:00 1 3
bbc
I don't think Port Talbot could ever be a "Red Wall " seat though !
92
01/03/2021 12:03:23 2 1
bbc
Welsh coal generates too much heat for the process. It has to be the right grade of coking coal for steel, not the highest grade. It also helps that the site of this mine in Cumbria is a derelict coal mine which hasn't been re-developed.
93
01/03/2021 12:04:47 2 1
bbc
Got any reference to the Margam pit?

On a sperate note the "nuclear waste" is just scaremongering & I havent seen any credible sources associating them with that theory.
159
01/03/2021 13:14:58 0 1
bbc
That's twice now you've made the same false claim regarding coal quality & nuclear waste
28
01/03/2021 11:19:30 60 12
bbc
Coking steel is still needed to produce steel. Alternative methods are not developed enough and will not be for 20 years or so. We need this mine for the high grade coal that we would just have to import from elsewhere anyway.

I fully support the need to preserve our environment, but the green lobby is turning into a bit of a witch hunt.
30
01/03/2021 11:21:20 16 43
bbc
Why not accelerate focus on these new methods?
They successfully did it with vaccines so there's no reason it can't be done with this other major issue.
41
01/03/2021 11:28:40 12 2
bbc
You cannot produce a new industrial process in a few weeks. It takes years. In the meantime, we need coal to keep up going.
98
01/03/2021 12:10:33 7 2
bbc
You may need to do some research first. Aspirational ideas like yours dont withstand any scrutiny.

Yes there are pilot studies but they are not available until 2035.
133
01/03/2021 12:35:31 8 1
bbc
They are.
But so long as China continues producing steel by current methods, nobody will buy steel for four or five times their price just because it's low emissions steel.
It's all pointless in any case, as China continues opening new, coal fired power stations every couple of weeks.
Go yell at China & see how much they care.
330
02/03/2021 06:15:11 0 1
bbc
Heavy industry is just a bit different from genetics especially in terms of infrastructure....do some research before typing.
451
02/03/2021 14:28:31 0 0
bbc
Because it will cost much more than conventional steel, and therefore won't be competitive
455
02/03/2021 14:30:42 0 0
bbc
Chalk and cheese really.
31
01/03/2021 11:22:01 33 8
bbc
The BBC will not be happy until it has driven the UK economy into the ground. If they want to moan about emissions focus on China which is still planning building hundreds more new coal fired power stations. Yes they manufacture lots of wind generators - then flog them off to the rest of the world making massive profits. As for "smart meters" - you're having a laugh!!
126
JPR
01/03/2021 12:30:41 6 3
bbc
The point is, the climate doesn't give a fig where the emissions come from - UK, China, or anywhere else. So while people argue over whoever's better or worse, the climate continues to deteriorate with all the catastrophic consequences for humanity.
17
MVS
01/03/2021 11:11:39 16 5
bbc
Silly me! It must be better to let other countries do that and destroy the planet? Of course!!
32
01/03/2021 11:15:17 7 23
bbc
Totally silly you in fact as there is no difference in us importing coke and us mining it and exporting it across the world - but who would expect a troll with a large blue rosette to realise that?
49
MVS
01/03/2021 11:33:52 13 2
bbc
Sarcasm is clearly too old-fashioned for todays eco warriors.
287
01/03/2021 19:19:26 4 1
bbc
We'll be exporting it to Europe, thus lessening THEIR carbon footprint too, as both the UK & EU currently source coking coal from the US & Brazil.
Thus UK coking coal will move hundreds of miles, rather than many thousands.
But who would expect a socialist to know anything about industry & transport?
33
01/03/2021 11:23:51 7 12
bbc
Cumbria coal mine plan 'damaging PM's reputation'
Given his history of personal and professional dishonesty and general idleness, I doubt whether he could care less about this.
122,000 people have just died on his watch. Does he look bothered?
76
01/03/2021 11:53:35 4 1
bbc
Just imagine what the death toll would be if Magic Grandpa had won!

By the way 122,000 represents 1 in 570 of the population. The Spanish flu of 1919 took away 1 in 20.
20
01/03/2021 11:12:24 35 3
bbc
The problem is as of now there is no real alternative to carbon for steel, steel thats needed for the wind turbines that are oh so green. until a real alternative is found caking coal is needed.
34
01/03/2021 11:24:50 4 15
bbc
Why not at Margam where there is a Steel Works right on top of it, the plans were given the go ahead only for Cameron to stop it, the Coking Coal there is far higher quality than Cumbrian Coal, methinks it was not a Coal Mine perhaps a nuclear dumping ground for Sellafield.
87
01/03/2021 11:59:14 1 4
bbc
Your right at that, it would be better at Margam
139
01/03/2021 12:42:04 5 2
bbc
Nonsense.
Margam coal was lower grade than Haig coal & a nuclear dump under the sea is the daftest place to have one (almost as daft as dumping it IN the sea, which we still do...)
12
01/03/2021 11:04:45 16 12
bbc
The BBC is Greta's friend. This is coking coal for steel production and 80% of it will be exported. We need steel production no matter what.
35
01/03/2021 11:25:25 9 4
bbc
Indeed and I'd like to know which diplomats they were ?

US, Chinese, Polish, German, South African, Canadian, Australian, Indian, Russian...and so forth. See a pattern here ?
63
01/03/2021 11:43:35 1 5
bbc
Yes, everyone decades ahead of ours.
109
01/03/2021 12:16:50 1 1
bbc
I think that you will find that they were UK diplomats whose job it is to report to the UK government on the views of foreign governments.
156
01/03/2021 13:09:14 1 2
bbc
Funny how they're all purely coincidentally, coal & steel producing nations...
28
01/03/2021 11:19:30 60 12
bbc
Coking steel is still needed to produce steel. Alternative methods are not developed enough and will not be for 20 years or so. We need this mine for the high grade coal that we would just have to import from elsewhere anyway.

I fully support the need to preserve our environment, but the green lobby is turning into a bit of a witch hunt.
36
01/03/2021 11:25:48 3 11
bbc
We're legally required to be net zero carbon by 2050. This mine will take 5 years to build, so how long a working life will it have? 10 years? It's not going to be very useful.

It would be more sensible to invest the money in developing low carbon steel production, which we will need very soon in any case.
112
01/03/2021 12:20:32 5 1
bbc
I get envelopes and packages from couriers stating that they are carbon neutral (& Google crowing about it on their home screen). Do you think that these companies use hamsters on organic locally sourced food to power their enterprises? Of course not. They offset it with environmental projects. The same can done here with coking coal.
228
01/03/2021 16:58:02 2 1
bbc
Net carbon zero not actually carbon zero

So unless you know some miracle way to make steel without coke it will still be needed
37
01/03/2021 11:25:48 7 9
bbc
Bozo wants to be popular. It is a fault in his character, along with many others. The far reaching consequences of any decision he makes are beyond his limited understanding, of anything!
21
01/03/2021 11:12:29 8 10
bbc
Damaging his reputation. lol.? Reputation for what?
38
01/03/2021 11:26:05 5 4
bbc
He must keep up his reputation for telling porky pies, it was not a coal mine, it is a Nuclear dumping site.
160
01/03/2021 13:15:57 0 1
bbc
Utter nonsense.
39
01/03/2021 11:26:05 47 8
bbc
People should "get real " about this. There are industrial processes the world cannot do without that depend on coal. As UK mines become exhausted, do the "greens"really imagine it is somehow better to collapse UK steel industry, or, alternatively, ship coal from places in the world that still mine it anyway. Time for a dose of reality. Short supply chains save energy, and reduce fossil fuel use
91
01/03/2021 12:02:04 25 6
bbc
Yes the do. The Green movement & espically XR is more of a political body than an environmental campaign group.

Until they can work out the total cost & total emissions they are only arguing from a position of ignorance. Pity, as the Green movement needs to be acceptable to more people.
244
sj
01/03/2021 17:39:50 0 1
bbc
Awful though it would be, it actually is better for humanity in the long-term to collapse all industry than to carry on as we are. Climate change really is that bad for us. (What if we can't produce food?) Better still is to plan for zero net carbon emissions including from steel by 2050 and this mine does not serve that purpose.
300
SJ
01/03/2021 20:29:59 0 1
bbc
You are wrong, on so many ways. But my many years of engineering experience, including steelworks, probably are of no interest to you.

As for who is right, try Lord Deben.
40
01/03/2021 11:27:14 9 11
bbc
Cumbria coal mine plan 'damaging PM's reputation' headline so daft it's almost priceless.
The only reputation he has, is of lying, bunging his mates a few trillion and combing his hair with a balloon.
88
01/03/2021 11:59:47 4 2
bbc
So you cant argue on the merits of the article or whether the coal being mined will reduce total emissions. Perhaps you dont have any relevant facts to offer?

Please prove me wrong.... I wont hold my breath
30
01/03/2021 11:21:20 16 43
bbc
Why not accelerate focus on these new methods?
They successfully did it with vaccines so there's no reason it can't be done with this other major issue.
41
01/03/2021 11:28:40 12 2
bbc
You cannot produce a new industrial process in a few weeks. It takes years. In the meantime, we need coal to keep up going.
46
01/03/2021 11:31:28 1 10
bbc
Good job that was not the attitude in WW2
53
01/03/2021 11:38:16 1 9
bbc
'A few weeks' is a disingenuous comment. No one made any hint as to 'a few weeks'.
In 5 years (which some have suggested is the time the mine would take to build) is definitely a possibility.

No one would have thought a novel vaccine could be developed in a year but now there are many.
18
01/03/2021 11:11:49 13 6
bbc
This plant should be given the go ahead plus reversal of the one refused in Northumberland. Jobs for our people rather than costly and unnecessary import of coal from Russia, China, Poland etc. We will rue the day in due time that we totally sacrificed our coal industry. The extra cost being placed on our Heritage Railways will be a huge burden when we have good quality coal still in this country.
42
01/03/2021 11:29:19 4 15
bbc
You want our climate policy to be decided by the requirements of chuff-chuff hobbyists?
137
01/03/2021 12:42:44 4 2
bbc
You want policy to be decided by a 14 year old table tennis champion? Its what Biden is doing??

All the policies should be based on fact, not on dogma.
Does this mine reduce the total emissions of the steel being produced? ? Yes, then it should go ahead.

The coal is high quality, its transport emissions is low. And the exports are likely to be more local than coal from Australia.
43
01/03/2021 11:29:46 7 6
bbc
Let's all be very clear about steel.

There is steel and steel. In fact there are lots of steel grades and many of them are much more resistant to rust.

Humanity really needs to get over the planned obsolescence stupidity to keep people in jobs. It is capitalist economic madness that is trashing the planet.

Only 25% of a new car is made from re-cycled steel. Surely we can do far far better?
55
01/03/2021 11:38:22 9 2
bbc
If we are going to get it correct
The coke is used to make a crude iron product which is further refined to make speciality products.

The process is highly efficient unlike the proposed hydrogen process which doubles the amount of CO2 emitted in producing the hydrogen.
82
01/03/2021 11:57:59 1 2
bbc
So who says that anyone has said to use less recycled steel? Yet another strawman argument from you.

Perhaps you ought to skill-up or research into manufacturing & its cost before you go on about "planned obsolescence stupidity"
Its a balance. Just because you dont like where the balance is doesnt make it wrong.
106
01/03/2021 12:15:43 2 1
bbc
I agree with the stupid planned obsolescence.

& yes, there are 100's of grades of steel out there. Our company uses refined tooling steels and we have to source most of these from Germany & Austria.

I would sincerely love to get my hands on good quality tool steel made in the UK, even if it means I have to prep the plates myself at further expense compared to prepped plates from the EU.
158
01/03/2021 13:12:05 0 2
bbc
Steel has the highest recycling percentage of all man made products, currently around 30%.
44
01/03/2021 11:30:08 14 7
bbc
This only 'damages the PM's reputation' in the eyes of the uneducated and those that see it as an opportunity to use it against him.

Everyone else in the real world sees it for what it is; a necessary evil to help create the modern world. Thankfully we are moving away from coal for energy production but the circle of steel production requires this resource (for now).
45
MVP
01/03/2021 11:30:25 14 9
bbc
I do not think that Boris Johnson is particularly interested in what others think of him. He has a habit of saying one thing and doing another so this latest development will be no surprise.
41
01/03/2021 11:28:40 12 2
bbc
You cannot produce a new industrial process in a few weeks. It takes years. In the meantime, we need coal to keep up going.
46
01/03/2021 11:31:28 1 10
bbc
Good job that was not the attitude in WW2
485
02/03/2021 18:36:11 0 0
bbc
Exactly, with the right attitude we could have nuclear fusion power plants up and running by next Christmas.
47
01/03/2021 11:32:53 1 5
bbc
There is no simple option to generating power at present. Well i suppose we could always build another Nuclear Power Plant Instead, or a solar and wind farm (not much sun in the Lakes), it rains alot though, oo dam a valley for some Hydro Power, the environmentalists would love that.
64
01/03/2021 11:43:54 5 1
bbc
this isn't for power but 'caking' its needed in steel production
90
01/03/2021 12:01:50 1 1
bbc
Hydro can be produced without dams
161
01/03/2021 13:18:39 0 1
bbc
How many times must it be pointed out THIS COAL IS FOR STEEL MAKING, NOT POWER GENERATION.
It's not the kind of coal used in power stations.
48
01/03/2021 11:33:13 11 8
bbc
Misplaced fear.
His reputation can hardly be worse.
32
01/03/2021 11:15:17 7 23
bbc
Totally silly you in fact as there is no difference in us importing coke and us mining it and exporting it across the world - but who would expect a troll with a large blue rosette to realise that?
49
MVS
01/03/2021 11:33:52 13 2
bbc
Sarcasm is clearly too old-fashioned for todays eco warriors.
24
01/03/2021 11:14:40 5 8
bbc
... coal is no longer needed for primary steel smelting ... electric arc furnaces are suitable to replace blast furnaces ... plus the need for primary steel production has diminished as a result of recycling
... here's a good idea ... stop exporting scrap metal including decommissioned ships
50
01/03/2021 11:34:01 6 1
bbc
Chemistry fail, electric arc furnaces are only useful for recycling scrap steel, you still need a reducing agent (carbon monoxide) to process iron ore, hydrogen is being investigated but is still way off and is currently projected to be far more expensive.
80
01/03/2021 11:56:26 1 2
bbc
To make steel you need iron. To make iron you use a blast furnace fed with iron ore (rock which is mined), limestone and coke. Coke is produced from high grade coal; there is no cheap alternative. I am not a Boris fan but on this he should not be criticised. His virus failings and cronyism are a different matter.
51
01/03/2021 11:34:28 7 9
bbc
Reputation, ha,ha,ha. Nice One Centurion, Like It, Like It.....
29
01/03/2021 11:20:23 1 3
bbc
Strange that Cumbria was chosen if this was essential you would have thought that Margam near Port Talbot would have been the ideal place, considering the plans were already drawn up by the Steel organisations and the mine was given the go ahead only to be stopped by Cameron also the Coal was of a much higher Coking quality than the Cumbrian mine perhaps the mine was going to be for Nuclear waste
52
01/03/2021 11:36:00 1 3
bbc
I don't think Port Talbot could ever be a "Red Wall " seat though !
41
01/03/2021 11:28:40 12 2
bbc
You cannot produce a new industrial process in a few weeks. It takes years. In the meantime, we need coal to keep up going.
53
01/03/2021 11:38:16 1 9
bbc
'A few weeks' is a disingenuous comment. No one made any hint as to 'a few weeks'.
In 5 years (which some have suggested is the time the mine would take to build) is definitely a possibility.

No one would have thought a novel vaccine could be developed in a year but now there are many.
135
01/03/2021 12:37:40 9 1
bbc
The Swede's have started building a trial plant & even they say it will be FIFTEEN YEARS before they have a fully developed process & even then, it might not be commercially scaleable.

Realism please...
54
01/03/2021 11:38:19 63 8
bbc
The element the turns Iron in to steel is carbon which gives it strength and hardenability. Materials like Cast Iron are awash with carbon and there is no alternative to carbon which is needed in vast quantities. So there is a choice, import it or dig it up here. This mine is required, it will provide jobs and is local thus reducing carbon emissions from transportation.
249
01/03/2021 17:56:33 24 11
bbc
This is the third time that Anthropogenic Global Warming zealot Harribin has recycled this story and the fake outrage. He doesn't appear to be a scientific journalist at all, merely a political activist who doesn't mind destroying our economy.
462
02/03/2021 14:40:31 1 0
bbc
Not against your argument, but actually only traces of C end up in the steel; the vast majority of the coal used to reduce the iron oxide in the ore to iron; the carbon removes the oxygen as carbon dioxide.
467
02/03/2021 15:35:57 0 0
bbc
What jobs are those? when the dangling carrot of 500 jobs, is a complete fallacy. I live locally, all the miners have long since gone and as Ive said you dont just chuck on some miners gear and head downt pit, so the amount of local jobs will be nominal. 85% of production is for export, so how do you suppose its all going to be transported by by road and ship?with a mininal carbon footprint?
43
01/03/2021 11:29:46 7 6
bbc
Let's all be very clear about steel.

There is steel and steel. In fact there are lots of steel grades and many of them are much more resistant to rust.

Humanity really needs to get over the planned obsolescence stupidity to keep people in jobs. It is capitalist economic madness that is trashing the planet.

Only 25% of a new car is made from re-cycled steel. Surely we can do far far better?
55
01/03/2021 11:38:22 9 2
bbc
If we are going to get it correct
The coke is used to make a crude iron product which is further refined to make speciality products.

The process is highly efficient unlike the proposed hydrogen process which doubles the amount of CO2 emitted in producing the hydrogen.
Imagine thinking that a serial liar who cheated on his wife whilst she was undergoing cancer treatment. Who has abandoned his children and spent taxpayer money on sex would care about his 'reputation'?

The electorate doesn't care about his character. This is what we want representing us.

Right?
Removed
71
01/03/2021 11:50:31 1 2
bbc
Boris is a great bloke and he knows how to treat a woman. Another beer, please Landlord!
75
01/03/2021 11:53:14 1 2
bbc
So you cant use logic or facts to argue about how this coal mine will reduce emissions, instead you resort to personal attacks.

This says more about you.
20
01/03/2021 11:12:24 35 3
bbc
The problem is as of now there is no real alternative to carbon for steel, steel thats needed for the wind turbines that are oh so green. until a real alternative is found caking coal is needed.
57
01/03/2021 11:40:07 1 6
bbc
Thought we were developing world-beating carbon capture system?
Coke is carbon, why not use that? Develop that technology?
We are not a massive steel producer now, and will not be again.
58
01/03/2021 11:38:16 73 11
bbc
I dont get this one
This type of coal is needed for steel production, ordinary coal does not generate enough heat
We will continue to produce steel with the furnace technology that we have
This type of coal will still be used and be imported from USA and Russia, etc
The total environmental impact WILL be reduced due to less transport emissions as well as creating needed jobs
Real world out there
74
01/03/2021 11:51:46 43 11
bbc
The quality of the coal is very good, so even if the coal is shipped to Germany for steel production it will still cause a lot less wasted energy & emissions than using the poor quality coal aka Lignite or coal shipped from Aus.

When the facts are this clear & they still argue against logic it means that their argument inc Roger HorrorBin are arguing with dogma
59
01/03/2021 11:41:48 24 4
bbc
If the environmentalists really wanted to make a change they would be campaigning against all the wasted energy used in bitcoin etc.
This would make a significant reduction in CO2.
68
01/03/2021 11:48:21 8 4
bbc
Yeah! Also, why aren't environmentalists campaigning against big oil, gas and coal companies?
69
01/03/2021 11:48:44 7 5
bbc
They wont will they because its more about politics than the environment.
457
02/03/2021 14:36:12 1 0
bbc
Do you think they aren't campaigning against any & all energy waste?

Are you suiggesting they should not bother wish some problems, as there are other fish in the sea?

Should the police not bother with crimes like theft because murders still happen? That seems to be the logic of your point.
18
01/03/2021 11:11:49 13 6
bbc
This plant should be given the go ahead plus reversal of the one refused in Northumberland. Jobs for our people rather than costly and unnecessary import of coal from Russia, China, Poland etc. We will rue the day in due time that we totally sacrificed our coal industry. The extra cost being placed on our Heritage Railways will be a huge burden when we have good quality coal still in this country.
60
01/03/2021 11:42:15 4 1
bbc
I can see the benefit of fulfilling our own needs, but 85% of the planned output is for export.
100
01/03/2021 12:12:38 4 2
bbc
Its quality & distance it needs to go.

Try understanding that its the total emissions that need to reduce, not one very small part of a process.
155
01/03/2021 13:05:31 1 1
bbc
To Europe, thus saving even more emissions from them importing US or Brazilian coking coal.
26
01/03/2021 11:18:17 3 22
bbc
It doesn't matter what its use is. It matters that it will be getting converted into carbon dioxide. Whether it's for power plants or steelmaking it's the same carbon dioxide which contributes to damaging the planet for EVERYONE.
61
01/03/2021 11:42:37 20 2
bbc
Jerry. I'm guessing you don't drive, cars use carbon steel, you don't use public transport, buses and trains are all are made with carbon steel, you don't live in a flat the frame of which is made with carbon steel, nothing in your house or anything you use during your day is made with carbon steel. I also guess you only eat organic food that is transported to you by horse and cart.... yeh, right
12
01/03/2021 11:04:45 16 12
bbc
The BBC is Greta's friend. This is coking coal for steel production and 80% of it will be exported. We need steel production no matter what.
62
01/03/2021 11:43:02 2 6
bbc
Good for the BBC. I am too.
35
01/03/2021 11:25:25 9 4
bbc
Indeed and I'd like to know which diplomats they were ?

US, Chinese, Polish, German, South African, Canadian, Australian, Indian, Russian...and so forth. See a pattern here ?
63
01/03/2021 11:43:35 1 5
bbc
Yes, everyone decades ahead of ours.
47
01/03/2021 11:32:53 1 5
bbc
There is no simple option to generating power at present. Well i suppose we could always build another Nuclear Power Plant Instead, or a solar and wind farm (not much sun in the Lakes), it rains alot though, oo dam a valley for some Hydro Power, the environmentalists would love that.
64
01/03/2021 11:43:54 5 1
bbc
this isn't for power but 'caking' its needed in steel production
9
01/03/2021 11:02:34 12 11
bbc
The BBC is supposed to report News, and be independant they are not supposed to try to make news nor try to influence people's view They fail miserably as this article shows .
65
01/03/2021 11:46:36 1 4
bbc
You fail miserably to underdtand that newz is not just what you want it to be.
Were you born in 1984?
66
01/03/2021 11:47:11 4 13
bbc
This climate change thing seems to be a hoax dreamed up by scientists and fussy people who don't like pollution.
134
01/03/2021 12:35:36 0 1
bbc
I shouldn't laugh but that last part is brilliant !!
142
01/03/2021 12:49:41 0 1
bbc
Have you heard of Poe's Law?
181
01/03/2021 13:48:41 1 1
bbc
Let's hope you are not a yardstick regarding the intelligence of the UK population.
67
01/03/2021 11:48:08 4 10
bbc
Largest steel plant in the UK, Port Talbot, FACT ! Largest untapped source of highest quality coking coal in the UK Margam, Fact ! A mile apart, Fact ! Chances of Tories taking the Port Talbot seat, no chance. The Cumbria mine is about keeping Tory MP's in power in the North, Fact !
99
01/03/2021 12:12:18 3 2
bbc
Assuming Port Talbot blast furnaces remain after Tata sells plant. FACT.
129
01/03/2021 12:33:52 3 2
bbc
Its not the English government its the Welsh government that has control over the Welsh mine. Its called devolution!
167
01/03/2021 13:25:40 2 2
bbc
The former Haig pit (same seams as the proposed mine) produced coking coal of significantly higher quality than Margam.
Your "facts" are in fact meaningless.
59
01/03/2021 11:41:48 24 4
bbc
If the environmentalists really wanted to make a change they would be campaigning against all the wasted energy used in bitcoin etc.
This would make a significant reduction in CO2.
68
01/03/2021 11:48:21 8 4
bbc
Yeah! Also, why aren't environmentalists campaigning against big oil, gas and coal companies?
144
01/03/2021 12:46:06 4 3
bbc
Because the ones in the UK are largely from the far left, so attacking Boris & the Tories is actually more important to them.
458
02/03/2021 14:36:24 1 0
bbc
They are. Do keep up.
489
RPH
02/03/2021 23:59:15 0 0
bbc
They have been for years. How can anyone with half a brain not be aware of that?
59
01/03/2021 11:41:48 24 4
bbc
If the environmentalists really wanted to make a change they would be campaigning against all the wasted energy used in bitcoin etc.
This would make a significant reduction in CO2.
69
01/03/2021 11:48:44 7 5
bbc
They wont will they because its more about politics than the environment.
6
MVS
01/03/2021 10:58:55 78 21
bbc
The BBC have clearly decided to support the anti- Cumbrian coal mine efforts. This is the 3rd or 4th article on this with a negative slant, particularly trying to embroil the PM in a way that undermines all his efforts to lead the climate change conference later this year.
It will be ecologically beneficial to mine coking coal close to the steel plants that need it.
70
01/03/2021 11:49:53 2 8
bbc
Cumbria is some way from Margam.
And the climate change conference is about reducing pollutants, e.g. CO2, NOx.
His timing is , as usual, somewhat imperfect.
84
MVS
01/03/2021 11:58:02 9 2
bbc
1). Last time I looked at my atlas Cumbria was a lot closer to Margam than China or the USA.

2). The near contemporaneous need to decide on this mine and the COP conference are not something the PM could have affected either way.
289
01/03/2021 19:25:35 4 1
bbc
280 miles by rail, which is far less polluting than 1,800 miles across the US from Wyoming, followed by a 3,000 mile sea journey.
Your understanding of the matter is, as usual, somewhat imperfect & politically biased.
Imagine thinking that a serial liar who cheated on his wife whilst she was undergoing cancer treatment. Who has abandoned his children and spent taxpayer money on sex would care about his 'reputation'?

The electorate doesn't care about his character. This is what we want representing us.

Right?
Removed
71
01/03/2021 11:50:31 1 2
bbc
Boris is a great bloke and he knows how to treat a woman. Another beer, please Landlord!
5
01/03/2021 10:58:39 65 24
bbc
Plenty of nations planning more coal mines & coal-fired power stations, but it's the UK & BJ who are the bad guys - as usual
72
01/03/2021 11:51:26 16 24
bbc
True. As usual.
402
02/03/2021 12:02:37 0 1
bbc
Wrong. As usual.
73
01/03/2021 11:51:36 38 7
bbc
The tree huggers really need to do the math. Cheaper and less environmental damage by digging it out of the ground here. Or would they rather import it from the USA. The same applies to Newcastle council stopping coal for steam engines being dug up. They will have to import it from abroad again more cost and more environmental damage.
145
01/03/2021 12:53:47 28 1
bbc
I'm a tree hugger and I reluctantly agree with the building of this mine.
I would rather it be dug up here where we have strict regulations than somewhere else with few or zero regulations and imported.
58
01/03/2021 11:38:16 73 11
bbc
I dont get this one
This type of coal is needed for steel production, ordinary coal does not generate enough heat
We will continue to produce steel with the furnace technology that we have
This type of coal will still be used and be imported from USA and Russia, etc
The total environmental impact WILL be reduced due to less transport emissions as well as creating needed jobs
Real world out there
74
01/03/2021 11:51:46 43 11
bbc
The quality of the coal is very good, so even if the coal is shipped to Germany for steel production it will still cause a lot less wasted energy & emissions than using the poor quality coal aka Lignite or coal shipped from Aus.

When the facts are this clear & they still argue against logic it means that their argument inc Roger HorrorBin are arguing with dogma
95
MVS
01/03/2021 12:06:10 4 2
bbc
RH dogmatic? How very dare you!
327
02/03/2021 06:12:03 2 1
bbc
Agree, this greenwash is just a new form of religion, relying on faith, hysterical zealotry rather than facts
Imagine thinking that a serial liar who cheated on his wife whilst she was undergoing cancer treatment. Who has abandoned his children and spent taxpayer money on sex would care about his 'reputation'?

The electorate doesn't care about his character. This is what we want representing us.

Right?
Removed
75
01/03/2021 11:53:14 1 2
bbc
So you cant use logic or facts to argue about how this coal mine will reduce emissions, instead you resort to personal attacks.

This says more about you.
33
01/03/2021 11:23:51 7 12
bbc
Cumbria coal mine plan 'damaging PM's reputation'
Given his history of personal and professional dishonesty and general idleness, I doubt whether he could care less about this.
122,000 people have just died on his watch. Does he look bothered?
76
01/03/2021 11:53:35 4 1
bbc
Just imagine what the death toll would be if Magic Grandpa had won!

By the way 122,000 represents 1 in 570 of the population. The Spanish flu of 1919 took away 1 in 20.
77
01/03/2021 11:54:25 25 6
bbc
The UK is going to produce its own coke. I see nothing wrong with that, as it will save on having to import coke and you can never be sure of the quality of coke coming into this country.
171
01/03/2021 13:33:59 1 4
bbc
Or as Boris Johnson would say, having our coke and eating it...
78
01/03/2021 11:55:37 8 2
bbc
A bit of a dilemma, as I'm both a 'tree hugger' and I love things made out of steel.
127
01/03/2021 12:31:45 1 1
bbc
Make a metal sculpture of a tree, then you should be happy.
79
01/03/2021 11:56:11 43 7
bbc
Which faceless nameless ambassabor did the BBC politico journo get his headline from?

I'm disillusioned with the BBC reporting as the days go by - this has all the hallmarks of a crap journalist trying to set the agenda by a whisper campaign. How many times have BBC tried to make this a story, and each time not actually produce anything other than woke greenwash over a difficult subject.
85
MVS
01/03/2021 11:58:43 26 2
bbc
At least 4!
103
01/03/2021 12:13:48 2 3
bbc
Mr ambassadors ..... "People in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones!"
50
01/03/2021 11:34:01 6 1
bbc
Chemistry fail, electric arc furnaces are only useful for recycling scrap steel, you still need a reducing agent (carbon monoxide) to process iron ore, hydrogen is being investigated but is still way off and is currently projected to be far more expensive.
80
01/03/2021 11:56:26 1 2
bbc
To make steel you need iron. To make iron you use a blast furnace fed with iron ore (rock which is mined), limestone and coke. Coke is produced from high grade coal; there is no cheap alternative. I am not a Boris fan but on this he should not be criticised. His virus failings and cronyism are a different matter.
16
01/03/2021 11:11:35 7 14
bbc
Who on earth believes anything that comes out of the mouth of BoJo?
He's only interested in keeping his job.
81
01/03/2021 11:57:20 1 3
bbc
The right wing press brigade.
43
01/03/2021 11:29:46 7 6
bbc
Let's all be very clear about steel.

There is steel and steel. In fact there are lots of steel grades and many of them are much more resistant to rust.

Humanity really needs to get over the planned obsolescence stupidity to keep people in jobs. It is capitalist economic madness that is trashing the planet.

Only 25% of a new car is made from re-cycled steel. Surely we can do far far better?
82
01/03/2021 11:57:59 1 2
bbc
So who says that anyone has said to use less recycled steel? Yet another strawman argument from you.

Perhaps you ought to skill-up or research into manufacturing & its cost before you go on about "planned obsolescence stupidity"
Its a balance. Just because you dont like where the balance is doesnt make it wrong.
6
MVS
01/03/2021 10:58:55 78 21
bbc
The BBC have clearly decided to support the anti- Cumbrian coal mine efforts. This is the 3rd or 4th article on this with a negative slant, particularly trying to embroil the PM in a way that undermines all his efforts to lead the climate change conference later this year.
It will be ecologically beneficial to mine coking coal close to the steel plants that need it.
83
01/03/2021 11:58:01 5 15
bbc
Why do the Tories whine every time the BBC publishes a sorry they don't like. Every time, whinge and whine do give it a rest. Remember the BBC is run by a Tory
104
MVS
01/03/2021 12:13:49 14 1
bbc
I am not actually a member of any political party, nor ever have been.
I do fervently believe in the BBC Charter, and as a paying customer of theirs feel entitled to point out poor BBC journalism where I see it and to question their balance and impartiality.
70
01/03/2021 11:49:53 2 8
bbc
Cumbria is some way from Margam.
And the climate change conference is about reducing pollutants, e.g. CO2, NOx.
His timing is , as usual, somewhat imperfect.
84
MVS
01/03/2021 11:58:02 9 2
bbc
1). Last time I looked at my atlas Cumbria was a lot closer to Margam than China or the USA.

2). The near contemporaneous need to decide on this mine and the COP conference are not something the PM could have affected either way.
79
01/03/2021 11:56:11 43 7
bbc
Which faceless nameless ambassabor did the BBC politico journo get his headline from?

I'm disillusioned with the BBC reporting as the days go by - this has all the hallmarks of a crap journalist trying to set the agenda by a whisper campaign. How many times have BBC tried to make this a story, and each time not actually produce anything other than woke greenwash over a difficult subject.
85
MVS
01/03/2021 11:58:43 26 2
bbc
At least 4!
10
MVS
01/03/2021 11:02:47 10 7
bbc
But the BBC, aided and abetted by its on-line trolls will keep on trying.
86
01/03/2021 11:59:05 1 3
bbc
No, not reacting or attending meetings at the start of the pandemic killing thousands of people aided it.
121
01/03/2021 12:24:46 1 1
bbc
Don't forget to vote next time then, James:)
34
01/03/2021 11:24:50 4 15
bbc
Why not at Margam where there is a Steel Works right on top of it, the plans were given the go ahead only for Cameron to stop it, the Coking Coal there is far higher quality than Cumbrian Coal, methinks it was not a Coal Mine perhaps a nuclear dumping ground for Sellafield.
87
01/03/2021 11:59:14 1 4
bbc
Your right at that, it would be better at Margam
40
01/03/2021 11:27:14 9 11
bbc
Cumbria coal mine plan 'damaging PM's reputation' headline so daft it's almost priceless.
The only reputation he has, is of lying, bunging his mates a few trillion and combing his hair with a balloon.
88
01/03/2021 11:59:47 4 2
bbc
So you cant argue on the merits of the article or whether the coal being mined will reduce total emissions. Perhaps you dont have any relevant facts to offer?

Please prove me wrong.... I wont hold my breath
210
01/03/2021 14:57:37 0 1
bbc
Oh please do
89
ljs
bbc
Blonde buffoon put foot in it YET AGAIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Removed
47
01/03/2021 11:32:53 1 5
bbc
There is no simple option to generating power at present. Well i suppose we could always build another Nuclear Power Plant Instead, or a solar and wind farm (not much sun in the Lakes), it rains alot though, oo dam a valley for some Hydro Power, the environmentalists would love that.
90
01/03/2021 12:01:50 1 1
bbc
Hydro can be produced without dams
39
01/03/2021 11:26:05 47 8
bbc
People should "get real " about this. There are industrial processes the world cannot do without that depend on coal. As UK mines become exhausted, do the "greens"really imagine it is somehow better to collapse UK steel industry, or, alternatively, ship coal from places in the world that still mine it anyway. Time for a dose of reality. Short supply chains save energy, and reduce fossil fuel use
91
01/03/2021 12:02:04 25 6
bbc
Yes the do. The Green movement & espically XR is more of a political body than an environmental campaign group.

Until they can work out the total cost & total emissions they are only arguing from a position of ignorance. Pity, as the Green movement needs to be acceptable to more people.
29
01/03/2021 11:20:23 1 3
bbc
Strange that Cumbria was chosen if this was essential you would have thought that Margam near Port Talbot would have been the ideal place, considering the plans were already drawn up by the Steel organisations and the mine was given the go ahead only to be stopped by Cameron also the Coal was of a much higher Coking quality than the Cumbrian mine perhaps the mine was going to be for Nuclear waste
92
01/03/2021 12:03:23 2 1
bbc
Welsh coal generates too much heat for the process. It has to be the right grade of coking coal for steel, not the highest grade. It also helps that the site of this mine in Cumbria is a derelict coal mine which hasn't been re-developed.
29
01/03/2021 11:20:23 1 3
bbc
Strange that Cumbria was chosen if this was essential you would have thought that Margam near Port Talbot would have been the ideal place, considering the plans were already drawn up by the Steel organisations and the mine was given the go ahead only to be stopped by Cameron also the Coal was of a much higher Coking quality than the Cumbrian mine perhaps the mine was going to be for Nuclear waste
93
01/03/2021 12:04:47 2 1
bbc
Got any reference to the Margam pit?

On a sperate note the "nuclear waste" is just scaremongering & I havent seen any credible sources associating them with that theory.
15
01/03/2021 11:10:52 20 3
bbc
Totally agree. A low carbon steel can be produced easily, but that doesn't mean it is suitable for application.

A component drawing will specify a material requirement. Eg EN8, 316 stainless, 718 Inconel etc.... That will determine what is required, not an ill informed reporter from the BBC
94
01/03/2021 12:04:57 7 8
bbc
I do not think that the reporter thinks that "mild" steel is suitable for any particular application. I do not think that he even knows that carbon is a constituent of steel. Even the posters on here who do know that seem mostly unable to differentiate between the carbon in the steel and the carbon footprint of the steel. (You must be quite old to be still calling steels by "emergency" numbers.)
116
01/03/2021 12:22:59 17 1
bbc
No, I worked in engineering. I can absolutely assure you that engineers use this terminology.
74
01/03/2021 11:51:46 43 11
bbc
The quality of the coal is very good, so even if the coal is shipped to Germany for steel production it will still cause a lot less wasted energy & emissions than using the poor quality coal aka Lignite or coal shipped from Aus.

When the facts are this clear & they still argue against logic it means that their argument inc Roger HorrorBin are arguing with dogma
95
MVS
01/03/2021 12:06:10 4 2
bbc
RH dogmatic? How very dare you!
130
01/03/2021 12:35:40 5 1
bbc
??
96
01/03/2021 12:08:40 4 2
bbc
get it done and measure everything afterwards. Impact will be small as trial
97
01/03/2021 12:10:20 9 2
bbc
Another article from Harribo damaging journalists reputation
30
01/03/2021 11:21:20 16 43
bbc
Why not accelerate focus on these new methods?
They successfully did it with vaccines so there's no reason it can't be done with this other major issue.
98
01/03/2021 12:10:33 7 2
bbc
You may need to do some research first. Aspirational ideas like yours dont withstand any scrutiny.

Yes there are pilot studies but they are not available until 2035.
456
02/03/2021 14:33:18 0 0
bbc
I believe a Swedish company MAY have a small pilot plant running in 2035.
67
01/03/2021 11:48:08 4 10
bbc
Largest steel plant in the UK, Port Talbot, FACT ! Largest untapped source of highest quality coking coal in the UK Margam, Fact ! A mile apart, Fact ! Chances of Tories taking the Port Talbot seat, no chance. The Cumbria mine is about keeping Tory MP's in power in the North, Fact !
99
01/03/2021 12:12:18 3 2
bbc
Assuming Port Talbot blast furnaces remain after Tata sells plant. FACT.
60
01/03/2021 11:42:15 4 1
bbc
I can see the benefit of fulfilling our own needs, but 85% of the planned output is for export.
100
01/03/2021 12:12:38 4 2
bbc
Its quality & distance it needs to go.

Try understanding that its the total emissions that need to reduce, not one very small part of a process.