MPs investigate ditching smart motorways
26/02/2021 | news | politics | 607
A coroner says the roads - where hard shoulders become lanes at busy times - create a death "risk".
1
Bob
26/02/2021 10:22:52 5 15
bbc
Smart motorways have fewer deaths than 'dumb' motorways. That's true both in terms of their length and miles driven by users.

So David Urpeth isn't lying when he says they are *a* risk, but that's not saying they're a greater risk. Anything short of closing the motorway entirely would mean there continues to be an ongoing risk to users.
18
26/02/2021 10:40:00 4 2
bbc
"Smart motorways have fewer deaths than 'dumb' motorways.".......oh yeah?....there is only 236 miles of smart motorways thats why......nice try
2
26/02/2021 10:25:17 86 8
bbc
Biggest safety issue is the lack of a continues hard shoulder on these motorways. Not only does it make it dangerous if you breakdown and can't make it to the refuge points, but it also hampers the emergency services getting to incidents. Not sure the other SMART functions are worth the money spent on them!
162
Bob
26/02/2021 11:39:38 7 74
bbc
More dangerous if you breakdown, yes.
Less dangerous if you just use the road.

They're proportionately safer. Fact.
3
26/02/2021 10:27:07 9 7
bbc
I wonder why the hard shoulder is there ?

Is it so in an emergency you can stop there ? Or that a police car, ambulance or breakdown truck and gain quick access to an incident ?

So I've absolutely no idea why removing said hard shoulder is a bad idea at all. No, that seems perfectly logical and safe to me.

32
sw
26/02/2021 10:45:25 1 1
bbc
I hope that you are not involved with other people's safety. Mad idea to remove hard shoulder as safety refuge.
4
26/02/2021 10:27:25 43 10
bbc
dumbest move ever
305
26/02/2021 13:37:41 22 0
bbc
Not quite. That honour goes to the Beeching cuts that left the country reliant on squeezing ever more cars onto roads that no building programme could ever keep up with.
5
26/02/2021 10:28:35 188 9
bbc
Hard shoulders were put there for a very good reason in the first place, seems rather stupid to get rid of them and any fool could have foreseen the consequences.
51
26/02/2021 10:47:08 7 109
bbc
What measures would you suggest to reduce congestion?
60
Bob
26/02/2021 10:55:54 5 52
bbc
They are useful - but are there more useful than a less congested carriageway?

The answer is no.

Smart motorways have fewer deaths per mile and per mile driven than non-smart motorways.

People are too hooked up on it's relative safety for hard shoulder users.

Hard shoulder + extra lane would be safer still, but dropping the hard shoulder is safer than keeping it if widening is not an option.
78
26/02/2021 11:02:54 58 2
bbc
Totally agree. Originally it was emphasised the hard shoulders were for breakdowns only. Making them into an extra lane was always a crazy idea. As for calling them “smart” - this is typical disinformation from people who want to present bad ideas in a good light.
246
26/02/2021 12:31:10 0 1
bbc
Correct, more public sector incompetence.
268
26/02/2021 12:45:37 2 0
bbc
100 people die every year on average on Hard shoulders. They are not safe places to be, but offer some a false sense of security. That's why you see people remain in their cars on hard shoulders, or changing wheels. Hard shoulder or not you must exit the car on passenger side and get behind the barrier
302
26/02/2021 13:34:30 1 2
bbc
most high speed french roads dont have hard shoulders and in many years of barreling down to the southcoast ive never seen a problem. In my opinion letting women have a vote was the reason we ended up with thatcher, letting them drive took the problem with bad driving to a whole new level.
6
26/02/2021 10:29:06 3 2
bbc
Hmmm, you'll always get lazy Muppets hogging the fast lanes on motorways and people trying to undertake as a result so yes, smart motorways could be an issue long term.

I know, btw, both are illegal. But so is speeding on 20 MPH limits etc. etc.
7
26/02/2021 10:30:40 4 0
bbc
AFAIK, undertaking is illegal, but passing on the inside is not, if you're staying in your lane.
16
26/02/2021 10:39:31 1 1
bbc
There is not a "Fast Lane" - its is the overtaking lane.
6
26/02/2021 10:29:06 3 2
bbc
Hmmm, you'll always get lazy Muppets hogging the fast lanes on motorways and people trying to undertake as a result so yes, smart motorways could be an issue long term.

I know, btw, both are illegal. But so is speeding on 20 MPH limits etc. etc.
7
26/02/2021 10:30:40 4 0
bbc
AFAIK, undertaking is illegal, but passing on the inside is not, if you're staying in your lane.
20
26/02/2021 10:40:58 0 0
bbc
Yes, you'd like to think that if you are staying in your lane you'd see stationary car in the distance in front of you, also known as driving awareness....
8
26/02/2021 10:31:23 4 9
bbc
Smart Motorways have a different risk profile to traditional motorways with hard shoulders. There are still deaths every year where road users on the hard shoulder are struck and killed by passing traffic. The difficulty is in trying to establish whether the risks associated with hard shoulders are greater or lesser than the risks associated with Smart Motorways

More training and monitoring req'd
9
ljs
26/02/2021 10:31:38 82 13
bbc
UTTERLY INSANE idea from day one.

Complete waste of technology and how many LIVES has it cost ???????
42
OwO
26/02/2021 10:49:05 14 46
bbc
"the department's own "stocktake" found "lower fatal casualty rates for smart motorways without a permanent hard shoulder than on motorways with a hard shoulder"."

Right there, in the article.
118
Bob
26/02/2021 11:20:56 6 9
bbc
It has cost negative lives.

More lives lost per mile on dumb motorways.
10
26/02/2021 10:32:29 6 7
bbc
If this is such an issue why has there never been similar discussion about the miles of dual carriageways which have never had hard shoulder?
11
26/02/2021 10:33:18 11 4
bbc
Do appreciate the nice signs telling me that there is stationary traffic while I sit there in stationary traffic or the 40mph limit imposed due to some invisible animal reported on the carriageway for the next 20 miles.
53
26/02/2021 10:48:28 7 2
bbc
Variable speed limits were introduced to regulate traffic flow. The M25 is much better with them.
64
mc
26/02/2021 10:50:58 2 0
bbc
debris always a good one too
12
26/02/2021 10:35:18 35 10
bbc
Ban these smart motorways immediately........they are dangerous and a "cheap"fix that the government used....cancel HS2 and focus on the motorways
75
sw
26/02/2021 11:02:06 18 5
bbc
Cancel HS2.
13
26/02/2021 10:36:23 29 8
bbc
The cynic in me makes me think these were designed as another cash cow.
Frequently see restrictions change from 60 to 50 and back to 60 for no obvious reason.
65
26/02/2021 10:53:13 15 5
bbc
It is only a cash cow if you don't observe the speed limits. Variable limits actually work very well. I am not convinced by the smart motorway ideas though.
67
Bob
26/02/2021 10:57:27 7 3
bbc
And slowing you down to 50 for a little bit yields someone cash how exactly?
225
26/02/2021 12:16:20 2 1
bbc
The random speed limit changes are proven to increase congestion, cause people to brake, accelerate, brake ....... generally for little reason except a poor algorithm that seems to react randomly. I have seen "smart" gantries displaying FOG warnings with 40mph limits in summer, mid-afternoon, 25degrees and clear blue skies. I have no faith in what information the gantries provide.
14
26/02/2021 10:38:46 28 9
bbc
These motorways are potential death traps and one death caused by them is one death too many. They should be banned with immediate effect.

With more people working from home and less congestion at peak times the business case for them has evaporated
34
26/02/2021 10:45:53 3 20
bbc
Hey, why don't we just ban the cars altogether? And, whilst we are at it, ban the airplanes, buses and cruise ships too.

Yeah, that's gonna work...
90
Bob
26/02/2021 11:10:43 0 2
bbc
Roads in general are death traps. Proportionately fewer people die on smart motorways.

As for reduced levels - go look at the daily traffic data being published. When we had largely re-opened last year they came flooding back. September recorded 95% of normal levels despite some restrictions still being in place and some areas (Leicester, Liverpool, Manchester etc) having harsh measures imposed.
416
26/02/2021 16:52:01 0 0
bbc
Dont use motorways if that is how you feel
15
26/02/2021 10:39:09 7 0
bbc
M50 works well provided you respect the variable speed limits, M5 has been widened to 4 lanes and is a nightmare.
6
26/02/2021 10:29:06 3 2
bbc
Hmmm, you'll always get lazy Muppets hogging the fast lanes on motorways and people trying to undertake as a result so yes, smart motorways could be an issue long term.

I know, btw, both are illegal. But so is speeding on 20 MPH limits etc. etc.
16
26/02/2021 10:39:31 1 1
bbc
There is not a "Fast Lane" - its is the overtaking lane.
17
26/02/2021 10:39:55 2 10
bbc
This becomes very emotionally charged because of the terrible stories we hear of fatal accidents. But official data show that there are fewer fatalities per vehicle mile on 'smart' motorways than non-smart ones.

There's no doubt in my mind that technological improvements are still needed but do we need to write the concept off altogether?
27
26/02/2021 10:42:06 1 1
bbc
Yep, agreed. But you need to combine this with stricter enforcement too.
30
26/02/2021 10:43:19 2 2
bbc
Isnt that because there are only 236 miles of smart motorways???.........thought so.....nice try
1
Bob
26/02/2021 10:22:52 5 15
bbc
Smart motorways have fewer deaths than 'dumb' motorways. That's true both in terms of their length and miles driven by users.

So David Urpeth isn't lying when he says they are *a* risk, but that's not saying they're a greater risk. Anything short of closing the motorway entirely would mean there continues to be an ongoing risk to users.
18
26/02/2021 10:40:00 4 2
bbc
"Smart motorways have fewer deaths than 'dumb' motorways.".......oh yeah?....there is only 236 miles of smart motorways thats why......nice try
47
Bob
26/02/2021 10:50:59 2 3
bbc
Silly me for assuming that people would understand it was figures on a per-mile basis. Fewer deaths per mile and per mile driven. It matters not there's less of them.

Also the length is actually more than you say. As at August 2019 there were 416 miles and as at April 2020 there were 488. You either have an older figure or referring to one specific type of smart motorway (there are a few).
19
26/02/2021 10:40:14 8 5
bbc
if we have another 20 deaths, we really will consider having a meeting
Removed
63
mc
26/02/2021 10:49:48 1 0
bbc
with more smart motorways being built it will reach vey high death raye quickly
7
26/02/2021 10:30:40 4 0
bbc
AFAIK, undertaking is illegal, but passing on the inside is not, if you're staying in your lane.
20
26/02/2021 10:40:58 0 0
bbc
Yes, you'd like to think that if you are staying in your lane you'd see stationary car in the distance in front of you, also known as driving awareness....
21
26/02/2021 10:41:11 5 6
bbc
"The Department for Transport says smart motorways help us cope with a 23% rise in traffic since 2000, helping congestion." . They certainly have helped cause congestion!
22
26/02/2021 10:41:18 8 9
bbc
Surely the same logic on smart motorways applies to A roads like the A1, A14 etc.
These 70mph roads also have no hard shoulder and far less CCTV scrutiny to pick up stranded vehicles.
The facts are that the statistics show fewer injuries and deaths per mile of smart motorway than any other type of road. Make even more safety improvements by all means, but scrapping them would be a mistake
85
26/02/2021 11:05:38 2 1
bbc
Lies, damn lies and statistics can be used to 'prove' anything - if you are selective enough
23
26/02/2021 10:25:04 30 7
bbc
Time to ditch the "Smart Motorway". A motorway designed from an accountant's point of view was always going to be a bad idea.
137
26/02/2021 11:29:29 4 9
bbc
I am not sure it is fair to blame accountants for smart motorways
24
26/02/2021 10:26:13 53 7
bbc
About time too! What muppet behind a desk dreamed them up anyway? Used to drive regularly between Notts and Sheffield and some days it was damn frightening!
25
26/02/2021 10:26:24 23 6
bbc
smart motorways are not smart they are dangerous. As the land will have already been purchased why not join up all the emergency lanes and call them HARD SHOULDERS this needs to be done before you start the M6 and before more people are killed!!!!
31
26/02/2021 10:45:02 9 25
bbc
What about A roads like the A1? they don't have hard shoulders and no-one is complaining about them. They are far more dangerous. More deaths per mile of road
26
26/02/2021 10:41:52 8 10
bbc
I do believe you must drive with due care and attention. If this was adhered to, there wouldn't be a problem.
38
26/02/2021 10:47:23 2 7
bbc
Yeah, you are talking to the nation that has voted for Brexit and keep electing Party of the Rich into power.

That's gonna work....
44
26/02/2021 10:49:14 3 0
bbc
Human factors causes more accidents than most people realise. It is design issue and smart motorways introduce HF instead of eliminating them.
48
sw
26/02/2021 10:51:04 1 0
bbc
There will always be a risk of a sudden vehicle breakdown. The hard shoulder is there to help with safety. If the hard shoulder is now the slow lane, there is nowhere to go.
54
mc
26/02/2021 10:48:34 2 0
bbc
it is not the driver causing the issue it is the design
56
LG
26/02/2021 10:52:33 1 0
bbc
Agreed, people have still been wiped out on normal hard shoulders by inattentive drivers.
62
26/02/2021 10:49:29 1 1
bbc
Trouble is most drivers have not picked up the highway code since they qualified to drive.
17
26/02/2021 10:39:55 2 10
bbc
This becomes very emotionally charged because of the terrible stories we hear of fatal accidents. But official data show that there are fewer fatalities per vehicle mile on 'smart' motorways than non-smart ones.

There's no doubt in my mind that technological improvements are still needed but do we need to write the concept off altogether?
27
26/02/2021 10:42:06 1 1
bbc
Yep, agreed. But you need to combine this with stricter enforcement too.
28
26/02/2021 10:42:18 12 6
bbc
"Smart Motorways" surely its become an oxymoron? Unless of course there are other clever installations behind all the work going on the M4 at the moment. 0 out 10 for Communication for the Department of Transport
29
26/02/2021 10:43:08 128 9
bbc
There is nothing smart in closing the hard shoulder.
539
27/02/2021 14:22:15 7 0
bbc
There is also nothing smart in letting unqualified MPs who have little understand in road/traffic management make the final decisions on issues relating to our infrastructure. This should be left entirely to the experts in this field to sort out, and most of them are against "Smart" Motorways.
17
26/02/2021 10:39:55 2 10
bbc
This becomes very emotionally charged because of the terrible stories we hear of fatal accidents. But official data show that there are fewer fatalities per vehicle mile on 'smart' motorways than non-smart ones.

There's no doubt in my mind that technological improvements are still needed but do we need to write the concept off altogether?
30
26/02/2021 10:43:19 2 2
bbc
Isnt that because there are only 236 miles of smart motorways???.........thought so.....nice try
43
26/02/2021 10:49:10 2 1
bbc
I said "per vehicle mile", not absolute numbers. Fatal accident rates are LOWER on so-called smart motorways but, when they occur, they get much more publicity.

But, hey, don't let hard facts get in the way of your moan.
59
26/02/2021 10:53:45 1 1
bbc
What do you have to say about A Roads John? They don't have hard shoulders either. So why not complain about them? Plenty of injuries and deaths on those roads in similar circumstances.
25
26/02/2021 10:26:24 23 6
bbc
smart motorways are not smart they are dangerous. As the land will have already been purchased why not join up all the emergency lanes and call them HARD SHOULDERS this needs to be done before you start the M6 and before more people are killed!!!!
31
26/02/2021 10:45:02 9 25
bbc
What about A roads like the A1? they don't have hard shoulders and no-one is complaining about them. They are far more dangerous. More deaths per mile of road
119
26/02/2021 11:14:18 6 1
bbc
I am sure your stats are correct but you seem to want to continue risking death on Motoways just because A roads are also dangerous MMMM
130
26/02/2021 11:24:56 2 0
bbc
I avoid the A1 as much as I can because it’s mainly only two lanes which both get used by lorries driving side-by-side at almost the same speed.

The non-motorway sections are even more dangerous because they have no hard shoulder.
368
26/02/2021 15:13:46 3 0
bbc
Which is why, for many years, motorways have been the safest roads.
387
26/02/2021 15:41:32 2 0
bbc
And that is why Motorways with a hard shoulder were introduced,
Originally all of the A1 was going to built to Motorway standards but the money ran out,
And after all lives are well worth sacrificing if the Chancellor can save a few quid arn't they ?
490
27/02/2021 09:38:03 1 0
bbc
True but that doesn't mean we should repeat the problem on motorways
515
27/02/2021 11:42:39 0 0
bbc
It must have been improved greatly then, decades ago when I used to use it for overnight deliveries it was one of the most moaned about roads I knew of.
518
27/02/2021 13:11:28 0 0
bbc
The A1 through Northumberland, a route of strategic importance, is not even dual carriageway throughout. There are many accidents on this road, because drivers travelling between England and Scotland get stuck behind slow trucks, and even agricultural vehicles use it. In this region, we have been trying for 30 years to get it improved, but they throw money at smart motorways and HS2.
3
26/02/2021 10:27:07 9 7
bbc
I wonder why the hard shoulder is there ?

Is it so in an emergency you can stop there ? Or that a police car, ambulance or breakdown truck and gain quick access to an incident ?

So I've absolutely no idea why removing said hard shoulder is a bad idea at all. No, that seems perfectly logical and safe to me.

32
sw
26/02/2021 10:45:25 1 1
bbc
I hope that you are not involved with other people's safety. Mad idea to remove hard shoulder as safety refuge.
424
26/02/2021 17:27:16 0 0
bbc
I guess you're not British? Some people will never understand irony and sarcasm in our language.
33
26/02/2021 10:45:47 7 7
bbc
It's not the roads that causes the deaths.
52
mc
26/02/2021 10:47:51 5 3
bbc
with smart motorway it is, you have no hard shoulder and that is it , death by negligence
14
26/02/2021 10:38:46 28 9
bbc
These motorways are potential death traps and one death caused by them is one death too many. They should be banned with immediate effect.

With more people working from home and less congestion at peak times the business case for them has evaporated
34
26/02/2021 10:45:53 3 20
bbc
Hey, why don't we just ban the cars altogether? And, whilst we are at it, ban the airplanes, buses and cruise ships too.

Yeah, that's gonna work...
74
sw
26/02/2021 11:00:33 6 0
bbc
They are all very polluting. Especially cruise ships, not only with fuel but also waste.
88
26/02/2021 11:09:10 1 2
bbc
Why ban airplanes when they are the safest means of transportation?
109
26/02/2021 11:18:52 4 0
bbc
And the Richard Cranium award for the most banal comment on here goes to That_Ian
367
26/02/2021 15:11:27 0 0
bbc
Why would reducing congestion at rush hour, by working from home, prevent people using their cars? It would cut out the annoying commute, but there are many more car journeys than that. It would also reduce the commuting times for those who can't work from home, and save them a lot of money on fuel. Plus the obvious environmental advantages. Cars produce far more fumes in heavy traffic.
496
del
27/02/2021 10:00:43 0 0
bbc
don't forget motor bikes, and anything electric, why not just enforce walking for everything. Hard to get goods from A to B?
514
27/02/2021 11:29:40 0 0
bbc
Go the whole hog, ban dying.
35
26/02/2021 10:46:09 4 14
bbc
No issue with smart motorways, if you have to stop as with hard shoulder you must immediately get out of the car via the passenger door, get behind the Armco. Dual carriageways have no hard shoulder, same speed limit as motorways. I do 30/40k mile pa, amazed how people use hard shoulder even changing wheels.
Take responsibility people, not confident in use get trained or don’t use these roads.
36
26/02/2021 10:33:22 66 3
bbc
it seems to me that those on here have never experienced a breakdown on the motorway to realise how frightening it really is, imagine if you breakdown in a live lane and your trying to get your family out and time spent unstrapping kids from child seats those vital seconds could wipe your entire family out would your responses be the same I doubt it
45
26/02/2021 10:49:23 12 75
bbc
It would be exactly the same if you broke down on an A Road, and there you don't have CCTV coverage alerting the authorities to your predicament. Why do you think a smart motorway is different to an A road?
80
26/02/2021 11:03:11 4 3
bbc
What is the difference on an A road I.e. A1,A34,A12 etc etc
465
as
26/02/2021 21:43:21 1 1
bbc
It's easy, all you have to do is put your hazard lights on, sit tight and hope you don't get hit by anything coming up behind, until somebody in a room somewhere finishes chatting to his mate and spots you on his CCTV. In the meantime dial 999 (if you have a mobile) and when they eventually answer they will inform the police who will respond sometime today.
Simples!
37
26/02/2021 10:46:48 51 7
bbc
I travelled for the first time last year on a couple of sections of smart motorway. Whilst the fact of there being no hard shoulder was worrying, I found that pulling out to over take was far safer as due to the amount of speed cameras there were hardly any of the crazy speeders that you get on the non smart sections. Conclusion, bring back the hard shoulder and keep the cameras.
66
26/02/2021 10:56:34 9 49
bbc
Tony, you must be terrified then when you drive on an A road. They have no hard shoulder either, or had you not noticed or cared, because the media haven't chosen to make it an emotive issue?
26
26/02/2021 10:41:52 8 10
bbc
I do believe you must drive with due care and attention. If this was adhered to, there wouldn't be a problem.
38
26/02/2021 10:47:23 2 7
bbc
Yeah, you are talking to the nation that has voted for Brexit and keep electing Party of the Rich into power.

That's gonna work....
39
sam
26/02/2021 10:39:08 31 6
bbc
stupid idea to use the hard shoulder as a live lane ,alright for someone to sit in an office telling others what to do, they should go and look at an accident for themselves then they might think differently .
437
26/02/2021 18:14:50 1 0
bbc
Just think of the billions it’s cost to put these things in place
495
del
27/02/2021 09:59:13 0 0
bbc
Using the hard shoulder is a cheap way of geting out of building more lanes.
536
27/02/2021 14:04:44 0 0
bbc
This is what happens when you let unqualified politicians with no understanding of infrastructure and traffic management make the final decisions. Useless lot.
40
26/02/2021 10:40:57 119 8
bbc
No investigation required.
Hard shoulders were put there for a reason. Removing them was madness and those who introduced "smart" motorways need to be placed under scrutiny for endangering lives.
55
26/02/2021 10:51:44 62 3
bbc
in the queue with Grenfell
121
Bob
26/02/2021 11:21:45 1 6
bbc
Didn't read the article, did you?

Less casualties on smart motorways.
41
26/02/2021 10:42:43 5 3
bbc
Its simple logic that smart lanes are used for maximising traffic flow in heavy on going conditions of traffic.
the result greater risk to those unfortunate to breakdown and the risk of death of not only being struck by another vehicle when your trying to get to safety but to be sucked out into the other live lanes when a HGV passes by at speed
9
ljs
26/02/2021 10:31:38 82 13
bbc
UTTERLY INSANE idea from day one.

Complete waste of technology and how many LIVES has it cost ???????
42
OwO
26/02/2021 10:49:05 14 46
bbc
"the department's own "stocktake" found "lower fatal casualty rates for smart motorways without a permanent hard shoulder than on motorways with a hard shoulder"."

Right there, in the article.
79
sw
26/02/2021 11:03:09 9 5
bbc
Well they would.
359
26/02/2021 14:45:59 5 0
bbc
True. Because reduced congestion reduces the risk of accidents happening in the first place. But what about survival rates when they DO happen? The hard shoulder is also an access route for emergency vehicles to reach accident sites. The faster they can get there, the better the victims chances of survival.
411
26/02/2021 16:44:41 4 1
bbc
Not comparing apples with apples, given the limited time SMART motorways have existed
507
27/02/2021 11:20:08 0 1
bbc
So no accounting for other issues, yet again simplification. I've hardly been on a smart motorway that is faster than 50, and that is the sign limit, they tend to be considerably slower because of the congestion except at times when the 'hard shoulder' lane is effectively a hard shoulder!
551
27/02/2021 15:30:53 0 0
bbc
There are two separate issues, you can have a Smart Motorway with variable speed limits independently of no hard shoulder. It is just the two have been linked in the normal brainless way that these things are done.
565
27/02/2021 18:30:41 0 0
bbc
There's a lot more motorway with hard-shoulder hence more accidents. The stat needs to compare like-with-like.
30
26/02/2021 10:43:19 2 2
bbc
Isnt that because there are only 236 miles of smart motorways???.........thought so.....nice try
43
26/02/2021 10:49:10 2 1
bbc
I said "per vehicle mile", not absolute numbers. Fatal accident rates are LOWER on so-called smart motorways but, when they occur, they get much more publicity.

But, hey, don't let hard facts get in the way of your moan.
26
26/02/2021 10:41:52 8 10
bbc
I do believe you must drive with due care and attention. If this was adhered to, there wouldn't be a problem.
44
26/02/2021 10:49:14 3 0
bbc
Human factors causes more accidents than most people realise. It is design issue and smart motorways introduce HF instead of eliminating them.
36
26/02/2021 10:33:22 66 3
bbc
it seems to me that those on here have never experienced a breakdown on the motorway to realise how frightening it really is, imagine if you breakdown in a live lane and your trying to get your family out and time spent unstrapping kids from child seats those vital seconds could wipe your entire family out would your responses be the same I doubt it
45
26/02/2021 10:49:23 12 75
bbc
It would be exactly the same if you broke down on an A Road, and there you don't have CCTV coverage alerting the authorities to your predicament. Why do you think a smart motorway is different to an A road?
57
26/02/2021 10:52:38 18 5
bbc
Because you don't have the volume of fast moving traffic
76
26/02/2021 11:02:10 6 3
bbc
Density of traffic and speed limits for starters
122
sw
26/02/2021 11:21:50 8 3
bbc
The article is about "smart" motorways, not A roads which vary from dual to single carriageway.
133
26/02/2021 11:27:08 8 1
bbc
Generally there are bigger vehicles travelling at greater speeds on motorways than A roads. Unless you get stuck next to roadside barriers it is more likely that you can exit the car from the passenger side on an A road. Motorways are generally safer though but making them less safe is nonsensical.
336
26/02/2021 14:11:21 1 0
bbc
? No idea! Have you ?
391
26/02/2021 15:53:14 1 1
bbc
Because you can only do 60mph max variable on a A class road when a Motorway is 70mph max constant - Ok
412
26/02/2021 16:45:47 0 1
bbc
A roads dont have a 70Mph speed limit and 3 lanes of traffic
464
as
26/02/2021 21:34:38 0 0
bbc
If you need it to be explained you obviously dont drive!
509
27/02/2021 11:22:05 0 0
bbc
Why do you think we have Motorways, the have effectively replaced A roads for trunk traffic. I used to use the A38 to the South West now it is M6, M5, only see a A road if you are diverted off a motorway
46
26/02/2021 10:50:21 7 6
bbc
It'll cost a lot of money, but the need to use the hard shoulder has proven the level of traffic requires this extra lane.

Safety requires a hard shoulder.

The conclusion is obvious, the extra lane must stay, a new further hard shoulder must be constructed.

It's in the interests of all motorists, all bus, coach, lorry drivers & passengers, probably most of us. No excuse, make the roads safe!
84
26/02/2021 11:05:26 1 0
bbc
Agreed, just a small ? of balancing costs of doing this against other investment in our road infrastructure.
18
26/02/2021 10:40:00 4 2
bbc
"Smart motorways have fewer deaths than 'dumb' motorways.".......oh yeah?....there is only 236 miles of smart motorways thats why......nice try
47
Bob
26/02/2021 10:50:59 2 3
bbc
Silly me for assuming that people would understand it was figures on a per-mile basis. Fewer deaths per mile and per mile driven. It matters not there's less of them.

Also the length is actually more than you say. As at August 2019 there were 416 miles and as at April 2020 there were 488. You either have an older figure or referring to one specific type of smart motorway (there are a few).
26
26/02/2021 10:41:52 8 10
bbc
I do believe you must drive with due care and attention. If this was adhered to, there wouldn't be a problem.
48
sw
26/02/2021 10:51:04 1 0
bbc
There will always be a risk of a sudden vehicle breakdown. The hard shoulder is there to help with safety. If the hard shoulder is now the slow lane, there is nowhere to go.
19
26/02/2021 10:40:14 8 5
bbc
if we have another 20 deaths, we really will consider having a meeting
Removed
50
26/02/2021 10:46:44 9 8
bbc
To reduce congestion it would be better to make the driving test much harder and raise the driving age to 21.
71
26/02/2021 10:59:24 5 1
bbc
Absolutely agree. From the standard of driving I witness, I feel that our driver training is no longer fit for purpose. When I see off duty instructors speeding! Drivers don't even want slow down when approaching roundabouts. As for motorcyclists, a free for all.
81
26/02/2021 11:03:53 1 1
bbc
Based on what criteria? How do you see this approach reducing congestion? The issue is safety and benefit of smart motorways and their lifespan, limited or long term.
116
TV
26/02/2021 11:20:04 1 0
bbc
No need to stop kids driving if the test is harder, better to make everyone retest every five years.
180
26/02/2021 11:47:53 1 0
bbc
Quite agree. Where I live many of us reckon that there's a 'local' version of the highway code (ie signalling is for wimps, never stop at roundabouts, double yellow lanes are only advisory etc.
5
26/02/2021 10:28:35 188 9
bbc
Hard shoulders were put there for a very good reason in the first place, seems rather stupid to get rid of them and any fool could have foreseen the consequences.
51
26/02/2021 10:47:08 7 109
bbc
What measures would you suggest to reduce congestion?
69
26/02/2021 10:57:45 31 16
bbc
More roads, widen roads, reduce immigration....
92
sw
26/02/2021 11:11:27 33 0
bbc
More people working from home, a less costly, in time, fuel, better organised, etc, haulage system. So that the finished article's components do not have to travel around the country to get to the end products manufacturing place.
105
26/02/2021 11:17:35 32 7
bbc
Better public transport infrastructure? Or would that be too radical and left wing/remoaner for you?
136
26/02/2021 11:28:29 17 3
bbc
People are moving to Working from Home so less need for Motorway and new Railway Networks likeHS2.
138
Jim
26/02/2021 11:29:45 18 1
bbc
reduce congestion by reducing uk population/limiting pop growth, or by diversifying economy across country
139
26/02/2021 11:29:47 11 3
bbc
Hostamosta 10:47 What measures would you suggest to reduce congestion?

More home working
More Zoom conferences
Staggered working hours
More car sharing
Lower speed limit on motorways
Better train services
Better bus services
Safe routes for cyclists
Better facilities for pedestrians
Safe routes for children to walk to school
142
26/02/2021 11:30:33 7 2
bbc
Better public transport, can you think for yourself and what would you suggest ?
146
26/02/2021 11:31:39 11 0
bbc
Clamp down on poor lane discipline , so that the road is used more efficiently.
148
Jim
26/02/2021 11:32:18 4 3
bbc
I hate saying this one as I love driving - networked self driving vehicles would lead to the biggest improvement on road safety on the motorway network
167
26/02/2021 11:43:40 2 1
bbc
Build another lane.
190
26/02/2021 11:54:59 0 0
bbc
Direct traffic into the hard shoulder for the next exit only from the previous junction and not to be used for undertaking. Congestion partly comes from a lot of lane changing.
227
26/02/2021 12:17:03 1 0
bbc
Stay calm and get home safe
242
26/02/2021 12:27:52 0 0
bbc
Electrification of all rail line, lengthening of platforms & trains & improvements in signaling to 'automate' trains so they can run closer together (like on the tube) to reduce demand for long distance motorway journeys.

On the motorways themselves a taller barrier on the central reservation to prevent rubber necking.
247
26/02/2021 12:31:33 1 1
bbc
Less people.
256
26/02/2021 12:37:13 2 0
bbc
Hopefully more people will continue to work from home, which will help reduce congestion at the traditional "rush hour" times - and reduce pollution.
258
26/02/2021 12:38:50 1 0
bbc
Reduce vehicle use, either by increasing tax on fuel, &/or sell primary routes to private business & allow PAYG; having first setting 'curfews' on town centre driving (other than for delivery or seruously - not ingrowing toe nail -disabled)
275
26/02/2021 12:50:28 1 1
bbc
I hope you are never in an accident waiting for the Ambulance to get to you.
282
26/02/2021 13:02:37 0 0
bbc
Widden the motorway to reinstate the hard shoulder? Hard shoulder running was/is for economics ignoring the risk to drivers. Even stopping on a hard shoulder isn't safe as evidence shows. Lower speed limit and proper enforcement of lane closure and speeds as well. Immediate ban for 6months for going past a lane closed sign.
33
26/02/2021 10:45:47 7 7
bbc
It's not the roads that causes the deaths.
52
mc
26/02/2021 10:47:51 5 3
bbc
with smart motorway it is, you have no hard shoulder and that is it , death by negligence
11
26/02/2021 10:33:18 11 4
bbc
Do appreciate the nice signs telling me that there is stationary traffic while I sit there in stationary traffic or the 40mph limit imposed due to some invisible animal reported on the carriageway for the next 20 miles.
53
26/02/2021 10:48:28 7 2
bbc
Variable speed limits were introduced to regulate traffic flow. The M25 is much better with them.
26
26/02/2021 10:41:52 8 10
bbc
I do believe you must drive with due care and attention. If this was adhered to, there wouldn't be a problem.
54
mc
26/02/2021 10:48:34 2 0
bbc
it is not the driver causing the issue it is the design
40
26/02/2021 10:40:57 119 8
bbc
No investigation required.
Hard shoulders were put there for a reason. Removing them was madness and those who introduced "smart" motorways need to be placed under scrutiny for endangering lives.
55
26/02/2021 10:51:44 62 3
bbc
in the queue with Grenfell
440
26/02/2021 18:35:50 1 0
bbc
It grows daily ...
463
as
26/02/2021 21:31:18 0 0
bbc
Very true, fatal examples of cost cutting coming back to bite.
26
26/02/2021 10:41:52 8 10
bbc
I do believe you must drive with due care and attention. If this was adhered to, there wouldn't be a problem.
56
LG
26/02/2021 10:52:33 1 0
bbc
Agreed, people have still been wiped out on normal hard shoulders by inattentive drivers.
45
26/02/2021 10:49:23 12 75
bbc
It would be exactly the same if you broke down on an A Road, and there you don't have CCTV coverage alerting the authorities to your predicament. Why do you think a smart motorway is different to an A road?
57
26/02/2021 10:52:38 18 5
bbc
Because you don't have the volume of fast moving traffic
70
26/02/2021 10:58:29 7 7
bbc
Yes you do. have you never driven on the 70 MPH A1 or A14 etc. Plenty of fast lorries and no CCTV to detect stranded vehicles. do you think people haven't died on these roads in similar tragic circumstances?
58
26/02/2021 10:52:50 44 5
bbc
I have no issue with automatic adjustment of speed limits, which is part of what a smart motorway does, to try to smooth out congestion, but closing miles and miles of hard shoulder and hoping for the best is madness.
30
26/02/2021 10:43:19 2 2
bbc
Isnt that because there are only 236 miles of smart motorways???.........thought so.....nice try
59
26/02/2021 10:53:45 1 1
bbc
What do you have to say about A Roads John? They don't have hard shoulders either. So why not complain about them? Plenty of injuries and deaths on those roads in similar circumstances.
5
26/02/2021 10:28:35 188 9
bbc
Hard shoulders were put there for a very good reason in the first place, seems rather stupid to get rid of them and any fool could have foreseen the consequences.
60
Bob
26/02/2021 10:55:54 5 52
bbc
They are useful - but are there more useful than a less congested carriageway?

The answer is no.

Smart motorways have fewer deaths per mile and per mile driven than non-smart motorways.

People are too hooked up on it's relative safety for hard shoulder users.

Hard shoulder + extra lane would be safer still, but dropping the hard shoulder is safer than keeping it if widening is not an option.
127
26/02/2021 11:23:42 14 3
bbc
The deaths caused by opening the hard shoulder to moving traffic would not have happened otherwise. The deaths on the motorway lanes are probably caused by cars being too close to each other while being driven at 70 or more.
170
26/02/2021 11:46:17 8 3
bbc
Tell that to someone's Family who was killed on these Death Traps
196
26/02/2021 11:59:09 1 0
bbc
I'd like to see how those statistics were compiled, chances are smart motorways are far more likely to have street lighting than rural sections of motorway with a hard shoulder and could skew the figures, it would be interesting to see like against like.
228
26/02/2021 12:17:53 1 0
bbc
Widening is always an option, but they simply don't want to spend money (after having bought land for widening here, the plans were downgraded to a cheaper "Smart" motorway. Of course, many days, something breaks down and the congestion is worse then ever, as people moving slowly try to change into the next (faster) lane, before they reach the obstruction.
61
26/02/2021 10:56:00 23 5
bbc
These so called smart motorways should be abandoned. They are incredibly dangerous and a minor breakdown can cause carnage. The hard shoulder we have on standard motorway fulfilling a very important safety function for drivers and the authorities. The notion that we can have a for lane highway with a safety hard shoulder is simply reckless.
26
26/02/2021 10:41:52 8 10
bbc
I do believe you must drive with due care and attention. If this was adhered to, there wouldn't be a problem.
62
26/02/2021 10:49:29 1 1
bbc
Trouble is most drivers have not picked up the highway code since they qualified to drive.
19
26/02/2021 10:40:14 8 5
bbc
if we have another 20 deaths, we really will consider having a meeting
63
mc
26/02/2021 10:49:48 1 0
bbc
with more smart motorways being built it will reach vey high death raye quickly
11
26/02/2021 10:33:18 11 4
bbc
Do appreciate the nice signs telling me that there is stationary traffic while I sit there in stationary traffic or the 40mph limit imposed due to some invisible animal reported on the carriageway for the next 20 miles.
64
mc
26/02/2021 10:50:58 2 0
bbc
debris always a good one too
13
26/02/2021 10:36:23 29 8
bbc
The cynic in me makes me think these were designed as another cash cow.
Frequently see restrictions change from 60 to 50 and back to 60 for no obvious reason.
65
26/02/2021 10:53:13 15 5
bbc
It is only a cash cow if you don't observe the speed limits. Variable limits actually work very well. I am not convinced by the smart motorway ideas though.
357
26/02/2021 14:42:45 2 0
bbc
"only a cash cow if you don't observe the speed limits"

some say...
415
26/02/2021 16:51:01 1 0
bbc
They dont work very well, very often at 50 or 40 for no good reason at all viz a viz sheer weight of traffic.
37
26/02/2021 10:46:48 51 7
bbc
I travelled for the first time last year on a couple of sections of smart motorway. Whilst the fact of there being no hard shoulder was worrying, I found that pulling out to over take was far safer as due to the amount of speed cameras there were hardly any of the crazy speeders that you get on the non smart sections. Conclusion, bring back the hard shoulder and keep the cameras.
66
26/02/2021 10:56:34 9 49
bbc
Tony, you must be terrified then when you drive on an A road. They have no hard shoulder either, or had you not noticed or cared, because the media haven't chosen to make it an emotive issue?
82
26/02/2021 11:05:07 12 1
bbc
The point is why make a road more dangerous by removing a safety measure that was incorporated for a reason. As with all breakdowns it depends where you stop.
361
26/02/2021 14:51:07 4 0
bbc
And that's why, for many years, motorways have been safer than A roads.
13
26/02/2021 10:36:23 29 8
bbc
The cynic in me makes me think these were designed as another cash cow.
Frequently see restrictions change from 60 to 50 and back to 60 for no obvious reason.
67
Bob
26/02/2021 10:57:27 7 3
bbc
And slowing you down to 50 for a little bit yields someone cash how exactly?
270
26/02/2021 12:48:02 0 1
bbc
how could a law change provide cash?
68
26/02/2021 10:57:32 8 6
bbc
Smart motorways work fine - if the resource behind the scenes such as cameras (and the staff to monitor them), speed monitoring, etc are in place.

But as usual the background is the easiest to cut and penny pinch on.
73
26/02/2021 10:59:56 7 2
bbc
Tell that to people who has lost loved one's.
100
26/02/2021 11:01:03 3 1
bbc
Exactly. The main problem seems to be the new lanes were opened without the safety system being installed! Madness.
51
26/02/2021 10:47:08 7 109
bbc
What measures would you suggest to reduce congestion?
69
26/02/2021 10:57:45 31 16
bbc
More roads, widen roads, reduce immigration....
101
26/02/2021 11:02:10 12 16
bbc
I agree with your last point! But surely we need less roads. People don't need to drive as much as they do.
178
Rob
26/02/2021 11:47:34 2 5
bbc
""Reduce Immigration"
racist.......!!!!!
57
26/02/2021 10:52:38 18 5
bbc
Because you don't have the volume of fast moving traffic
70
26/02/2021 10:58:29 7 7
bbc
Yes you do. have you never driven on the 70 MPH A1 or A14 etc. Plenty of fast lorries and no CCTV to detect stranded vehicles. do you think people haven't died on these roads in similar tragic circumstances?
309
26/02/2021 13:41:36 5 0
bbc
I'm a regular user of the A14 and I can't think of any stretch where there isn't a proper hard shoulder or pavement/verge area to move out of a live lane to give some level of protection.
50
26/02/2021 10:46:44 9 8
bbc
To reduce congestion it would be better to make the driving test much harder and raise the driving age to 21.
71
26/02/2021 10:59:24 5 1
bbc
Absolutely agree. From the standard of driving I witness, I feel that our driver training is no longer fit for purpose. When I see off duty instructors speeding! Drivers don't even want slow down when approaching roundabouts. As for motorcyclists, a free for all.
102
26/02/2021 11:04:39 1 1
bbc
More people should take advanced tests. I did my IAM bike test and went on to be an IAM observer for years. You get much more pleasure from driving when you know what you are doing!
72
26/02/2021 10:59:45 28 3
bbc
If the families of those unfortunate 14 started a group action against Highways, I bet we would see them removed quicker. Has anybody on here been in a car that has broken down on one of these motorways? I know three, one of which was left to grab the kids and dog and run up the embankment, and just hope nobody hit their car - that's the reality!
87
26/02/2021 11:08:07 10 25
bbc
The same reality as would occur if they broke down on an A Road. No hard shoulder there either, but you don't seem bothered by that. they also carry traffic at 70 MPH with many Lorries. If you've ever driven on the A14 in Cambridgeshire you will see the police warning signs telling you how many fatal collisions there have been on that road
68
26/02/2021 10:57:32 8 6
bbc
Smart motorways work fine - if the resource behind the scenes such as cameras (and the staff to monitor them), speed monitoring, etc are in place.

But as usual the background is the easiest to cut and penny pinch on.
73
26/02/2021 10:59:56 7 2
bbc
Tell that to people who has lost loved one's.
98
26/02/2021 11:15:30 1 1
bbc
Stop being excessively emotive.

Air pollution is estimated to cause about 40,000 early deaths a year in the UK. How many people could smart motorways save by reducing congestion pollution?

The simple answer is that smart motorways can be safe if they are resourced and monitored properly. Smart motorwats are NOT safe, if they are not resourced and monitored properly.
34
26/02/2021 10:45:53 3 20
bbc
Hey, why don't we just ban the cars altogether? And, whilst we are at it, ban the airplanes, buses and cruise ships too.

Yeah, that's gonna work...
74
sw
26/02/2021 11:00:33 6 0
bbc
They are all very polluting. Especially cruise ships, not only with fuel but also waste.
12
26/02/2021 10:35:18 35 10
bbc
Ban these smart motorways immediately........they are dangerous and a "cheap"fix that the government used....cancel HS2 and focus on the motorways
75
sw
26/02/2021 11:02:06 18 5
bbc
Cancel HS2.
45
26/02/2021 10:49:23 12 75
bbc
It would be exactly the same if you broke down on an A Road, and there you don't have CCTV coverage alerting the authorities to your predicament. Why do you think a smart motorway is different to an A road?
76
26/02/2021 11:02:10 6 3
bbc
Density of traffic and speed limits for starters
91
26/02/2021 11:11:01 6 4
bbc
the speed limit on dual carrigeway A roads is the same as motorways 70 MPH, and far more fatal collisions on them. that's just a fact
77
26/02/2021 11:02:43 4 1
bbc
Smart Motorways designed to allow more congestion. A Smart thing would be to put an elevated Maglev train system on the existing Lane, allowing both refuge and better rail links!
106
TV
26/02/2021 11:17:41 0 0
bbc
If you're building an elevated Maglev it doesn't have to be above tarmac, and it probably couldn't follow the gradient up hills - 4% on motorways
5
26/02/2021 10:28:35 188 9
bbc
Hard shoulders were put there for a very good reason in the first place, seems rather stupid to get rid of them and any fool could have foreseen the consequences.
78
26/02/2021 11:02:54 58 2
bbc
Totally agree. Originally it was emphasised the hard shoulders were for breakdowns only. Making them into an extra lane was always a crazy idea. As for calling them “smart” - this is typical disinformation from people who want to present bad ideas in a good light.
154
26/02/2021 11:34:33 11 0
bbc
"...As for calling them “smart” - this is typical disinformation..."
===
We were promised cameras which could sense stationary vehicles on a hard shoulder used as a running lane and automatically close the lane. This is what "smart" meant. The cameras which were installed didn't work and they have rolled out subsequent changes without them.
Not smart then but dumb in every sense of the word.
42
OwO
26/02/2021 10:49:05 14 46
bbc
"the department's own "stocktake" found "lower fatal casualty rates for smart motorways without a permanent hard shoulder than on motorways with a hard shoulder"."

Right there, in the article.
79
sw
26/02/2021 11:03:09 9 5
bbc
Well they would.
86
OwO
26/02/2021 11:07:38 10 5
bbc
If you have any proof of anything else, go ahead.

Otherwise what, you think they're lying about something they're looking at scrapping anyway? Creating conspiracy to match your ideology isn't healthy.
36
26/02/2021 10:33:22 66 3
bbc
it seems to me that those on here have never experienced a breakdown on the motorway to realise how frightening it really is, imagine if you breakdown in a live lane and your trying to get your family out and time spent unstrapping kids from child seats those vital seconds could wipe your entire family out would your responses be the same I doubt it
80
26/02/2021 11:03:11 4 3
bbc
What is the difference on an A road I.e. A1,A34,A12 etc etc
50
26/02/2021 10:46:44 9 8
bbc
To reduce congestion it would be better to make the driving test much harder and raise the driving age to 21.
81
26/02/2021 11:03:53 1 1
bbc
Based on what criteria? How do you see this approach reducing congestion? The issue is safety and benefit of smart motorways and their lifespan, limited or long term.
104
26/02/2021 11:07:09 2 1
bbc
Quite a big percentage of motorists would not pass an IAM or RoSPA test. But that should be the level required to be allowed on the road. You would end up with less vehicles being better driven.
66
26/02/2021 10:56:34 9 49
bbc
Tony, you must be terrified then when you drive on an A road. They have no hard shoulder either, or had you not noticed or cared, because the media haven't chosen to make it an emotive issue?
82
26/02/2021 11:05:07 12 1
bbc
The point is why make a road more dangerous by removing a safety measure that was incorporated for a reason. As with all breakdowns it depends where you stop.
243
26/02/2021 12:28:10 2 3
bbc
Stopping on the hard shoulder is very dangerous indeed. plenty of fatalities on the hard shoulder. Zero in emergency refuge areas cut out of the carriageway's path. Build more so less distance between them for sure, but smart motorways are safer. they've spent billions on them, do you seriously think they have any intention of scrapping them?
83
26/02/2021 11:05:11 7 2
bbc
If you have ever driven on a smart motorway, just imagine if you had a breakdown......

Would you be happy for your car to stop in a moving lane of traffic? How about in the fog at night?

These motorways certainly feel like death traps - would be glad to see the back of them.... Or maybe have a 40 mph limit in the first lane?
89
26/02/2021 11:09:23 1 1
bbc
What would you do with A roads?
46
26/02/2021 10:50:21 7 6
bbc
It'll cost a lot of money, but the need to use the hard shoulder has proven the level of traffic requires this extra lane.

Safety requires a hard shoulder.

The conclusion is obvious, the extra lane must stay, a new further hard shoulder must be constructed.

It's in the interests of all motorists, all bus, coach, lorry drivers & passengers, probably most of us. No excuse, make the roads safe!
84
26/02/2021 11:05:26 1 0
bbc
Agreed, just a small ? of balancing costs of doing this against other investment in our road infrastructure.
22
26/02/2021 10:41:18 8 9
bbc
Surely the same logic on smart motorways applies to A roads like the A1, A14 etc.
These 70mph roads also have no hard shoulder and far less CCTV scrutiny to pick up stranded vehicles.
The facts are that the statistics show fewer injuries and deaths per mile of smart motorway than any other type of road. Make even more safety improvements by all means, but scrapping them would be a mistake
85
26/02/2021 11:05:38 2 1
bbc
Lies, damn lies and statistics can be used to 'prove' anything - if you are selective enough
95
26/02/2021 11:13:35 0 0
bbc
Just facts in this case. A Roads are the most dangerous of our major roads, All you have to do is look up the numbers. They don't lie
79
sw
26/02/2021 11:03:09 9 5
bbc
Well they would.
86
OwO
26/02/2021 11:07:38 10 5
bbc
If you have any proof of anything else, go ahead.

Otherwise what, you think they're lying about something they're looking at scrapping anyway? Creating conspiracy to match your ideology isn't healthy.
72
26/02/2021 10:59:45 28 3
bbc
If the families of those unfortunate 14 started a group action against Highways, I bet we would see them removed quicker. Has anybody on here been in a car that has broken down on one of these motorways? I know three, one of which was left to grab the kids and dog and run up the embankment, and just hope nobody hit their car - that's the reality!
87
26/02/2021 11:08:07 10 25
bbc
The same reality as would occur if they broke down on an A Road. No hard shoulder there either, but you don't seem bothered by that. they also carry traffic at 70 MPH with many Lorries. If you've ever driven on the A14 in Cambridgeshire you will see the police warning signs telling you how many fatal collisions there have been on that road
269
26/02/2021 12:47:16 4 0
bbc
so you think it's a good idea to put drivers on motorways in the same danger ? "whaterboutery "rules.
301
26/02/2021 13:32:31 5 0
bbc
stuck record there GEMAC labouring arguments about A roads...

....and just because there are fatalities on all roads doesn't mean we should just shrug out shoulders about them - every death is a tragedy for someone's family meaning that where we have an opportunity to avoid them happening we have a duty to do so
365
26/02/2021 15:05:08 2 0
bbc
That's why for many years, motorways have been safer than A roads.
414
26/02/2021 16:48:52 0 0
bbc
The A14 is a dual carriageway and not a typical A road.
513
27/02/2021 11:28:55 0 0
bbc
Most A roads also have verges, though putting a truck of one and you might not get off it without a tow.
34
26/02/2021 10:45:53 3 20
bbc
Hey, why don't we just ban the cars altogether? And, whilst we are at it, ban the airplanes, buses and cruise ships too.

Yeah, that's gonna work...
88
26/02/2021 11:09:10 1 2
bbc
Why ban airplanes when they are the safest means of transportation?
134
sw
26/02/2021 11:27:17 2 0
bbc
Also very polluting, with fuel and noise, and acreage.
83
26/02/2021 11:05:11 7 2
bbc
If you have ever driven on a smart motorway, just imagine if you had a breakdown......

Would you be happy for your car to stop in a moving lane of traffic? How about in the fog at night?

These motorways certainly feel like death traps - would be glad to see the back of them.... Or maybe have a 40 mph limit in the first lane?
89
26/02/2021 11:09:23 1 1
bbc
What would you do with A roads?
110
26/02/2021 11:18:56 0 0
bbc
It seems the angry mob cannot logically divorce their emotions from facts, and have never even considered how dangerous A Roads actually are compared to any form of motorway. You are correct, the same logic applies to A roads as smart motorways.
384
26/02/2021 15:36:28 0 0
bbc
Fill the Pot Holes in would be a hell of a start Kevin.
14
26/02/2021 10:38:46 28 9
bbc
These motorways are potential death traps and one death caused by them is one death too many. They should be banned with immediate effect.

With more people working from home and less congestion at peak times the business case for them has evaporated
90
Bob
26/02/2021 11:10:43 0 2
bbc
Roads in general are death traps. Proportionately fewer people die on smart motorways.

As for reduced levels - go look at the daily traffic data being published. When we had largely re-opened last year they came flooding back. September recorded 95% of normal levels despite some restrictions still being in place and some areas (Leicester, Liverpool, Manchester etc) having harsh measures imposed.
76
26/02/2021 11:02:10 6 3
bbc
Density of traffic and speed limits for starters
91
26/02/2021 11:11:01 6 4
bbc
the speed limit on dual carrigeway A roads is the same as motorways 70 MPH, and far more fatal collisions on them. that's just a fact
171
26/02/2021 11:46:23 5 4
bbc
And you still don't see the reason is A roads has no hard shoulders. So we should not make motorways the same as A roads.
326
26/02/2021 13:57:40 2 0
bbc
Just because the limit is the same doesn't mean that the same proportion of drivers drive at that speed on A roads compared with the percentage of drivers on Motorways that do 70mph or more.

You need to learn more about stats GEMAC if you are going to cite them so much in attempts to support your spurious arguments
51
26/02/2021 10:47:08 7 109
bbc
What measures would you suggest to reduce congestion?
92
sw
26/02/2021 11:11:27 33 0
bbc
More people working from home, a less costly, in time, fuel, better organised, etc, haulage system. So that the finished article's components do not have to travel around the country to get to the end products manufacturing place.
93
26/02/2021 11:11:29 11 2
bbc
Weve had 2 years of unjustified disruption , constant closures that have made the trip to and from work unbearable when working or finishing late and for what , a killer system of motorway that , if you break down , tells you to stay in your car and assume the brace position. Take your killer motorway away resurface and go , we don’t want it
94
26/02/2021 11:12:17 10 3
bbc
There is nothing "smart" about them.
85
26/02/2021 11:05:38 2 1
bbc
Lies, damn lies and statistics can be used to 'prove' anything - if you are selective enough
95
26/02/2021 11:13:35 0 0
bbc
Just facts in this case. A Roads are the most dangerous of our major roads, All you have to do is look up the numbers. They don't lie
96
ljs
26/02/2021 11:13:45 4 2
bbc
IF we had DECENT internet in this country, congestion would disappear overnight as MILLIONS could work from home MOST of the time.

But thatcher squandered all the SCOTTISH oil money on motorways.

NOTE, there are NONE North of Perth and most are south of the Midlands.
125
26/02/2021 11:18:09 2 2
bbc
When Mrs Thatcher was running the country home internet did not exist. Well, maybe a few tech researchers had it, but 99.999% of the country didn't. Even cell phones were something that we mostly saw on television (star trek communicators! Predated Ericsson flip phones by decades)
97
26/02/2021 11:14:09 7 2
bbc
The Conservative MP added that the department's own "stocktake" found "lower fatal casualty rates for smart motorways without a permanent hard shoulder than on motorways with a hard shoulder".
---

How many smart motorways are there as opposed to regular motorways for true comparison & how many collisions have there been on them that thankfully, haven't resulted in death? (note the word fatal)
73
26/02/2021 10:59:56 7 2
bbc
Tell that to people who has lost loved one's.
98
26/02/2021 11:15:30 1 1
bbc
Stop being excessively emotive.

Air pollution is estimated to cause about 40,000 early deaths a year in the UK. How many people could smart motorways save by reducing congestion pollution?

The simple answer is that smart motorways can be safe if they are resourced and monitored properly. Smart motorwats are NOT safe, if they are not resourced and monitored properly.
99
26/02/2021 11:00:00 4 2
bbc
Labour should never have allowed the introduction of smart motorways......they are incompetent in government.
108
26/02/2021 11:18:42 6 0
bbc
Show me the competent one, I am still looking after 60+ years.
124
26/02/2021 11:17:53 1 1
bbc
this is much more important than petty politics and anyway they will have been advised by the incredibly incompetent Highway Agency I guess?
68
26/02/2021 10:57:32 8 6
bbc
Smart motorways work fine - if the resource behind the scenes such as cameras (and the staff to monitor them), speed monitoring, etc are in place.

But as usual the background is the easiest to cut and penny pinch on.
100
26/02/2021 11:01:03 3 1
bbc
Exactly. The main problem seems to be the new lanes were opened without the safety system being installed! Madness.