Get used to fewer trains, says rail body
25/02/2021 | news | business | 1,289
Around one in 10 rail services should be cut while passenger numbers remain low, says Network Rail.
1
25/02/2021 15:29:32 4 3
bbc
HS1.9 then I guess.
160
25/02/2021 15:55:12 5 0
bbc
Well if we're talking 10% then more like HS1.8!!
But I prefer HS-zero - spend the money on other things or a revised scope which prioritises connecting the regions outside of London rather than creating yet another way for people to commute there.
2
25/02/2021 15:30:07 292 62
bbc
"People prefer reliability to journey times"
Welp looks like HS2 is a waste of money then ??
23
kh
25/02/2021 15:31:38 148 58
bbc
By the time HS2 is complete everybody else will be using hyperloop tracks.
27
25/02/2021 15:35:02 10 9
bbc
The new HS2 will give new track which should (hopefully) be more reliable.
328
25/02/2021 16:26:19 8 1
bbc
So a brand new line won’t be as reliable as the knackered dodgy stuff in existence now. Just how often do you use rail? I suspect you are just another campaigner with no idea
741
25/02/2021 18:13:52 1 1
bbc
Since lockdown means the brown envelopes probably got spent on conservatories & extensions rather than foreign holidays, I wouldn't say increasing house prices in Surrey is a waste of money at all!
3
25/02/2021 15:31:07 1219 18
bbc
Hands up if you think services will reduce but season tickets will still go up each year. *hand up*
67
25/02/2021 15:42:22 460 52
bbc
Too many companies using covid as an excuse to offer a poorer service. Look at couriers, they pretty much just chuck your parcel at your door now, and use 'safety' as an excuse.
164
25/02/2021 15:55:42 54 2
bbc
I still get network alerts for my commute despite wfh. Even with no pressure on the lines at all at the moment (no one travelling!), there are still multiple delays and cancellations and track circuit failures each week.... worst thing about returning to work will be paying these jokers for an awful service again
177
25/02/2021 15:57:25 26 85
bbc
Answer me this - everybody thinks rail fares are too expensive, yet in normal times everybody complains trains are overcrowded. Simple economics would tell you that if demand is exceeding supply, then the product is actually being sold at below its true value, so why wouldn't season ticket prices rise?
199
25/02/2021 16:01:14 48 4
bbc
The worst example was when NR put the prices up simply because they were getting overwhelmed with customers following gov push to get people out of private transport and onto public services. Barking.
240
25/02/2021 16:09:14 11 2
bbc
Is that no surely a given, they have a high fixed cost base and less income.
283
25/02/2021 16:19:41 10 21
bbc
Season tickets should go up. I don’t use a train but pay for those who do. How about you paying the full cost of your journey or giving me money to offset petrol prices. Everyone wants something for nothing culture.
291
25/02/2021 16:20:28 5 3
bbc
Surely you pay for the service you travel on, not for the services you don't. If they have 80% of the passengers and still run 100% of the trains, then who's going to pay the other 20%?
474
25/02/2021 17:00:29 2 0
bbc
Good point - If there are fewer peak trains can it be safely assumed there will be fewer peak fares? Thought not!!
488
25/02/2021 17:03:06 4 0
bbc
It's called getting back to "normal" less trains, higher fares.
509
25/02/2021 17:07:24 0 1
bbc
Now the truth for the Covid scaremongering is coming out
539
25/02/2021 17:16:20 2 5
bbc
because of the Unions !
781
25/02/2021 18:28:11 0 0
bbc
It remains to be seen what will happen when we return to normal. You have other business people saying they expect people to come into the workplace (might even be another open HYS).

This announcement would fit nicely into the Government's recent cut to rail funding, in fact that is what this announcement is about!
838
25/02/2021 18:48:46 0 2
bbc
You should be thanking all those taxpayers who do not use the railways for the subsidies that reduce the price of your season tickets. Instead you simply moan year in year out that fares are too high. If you don't like the fares move. It shows just how stupid all Governments in this country are that we should be continuing to concentrate people in urban areas by subsidising the mass transport
951
25/02/2021 19:41:51 1 0
bbc
12 rail bosses disliked this comment.

(1488)
4
25/02/2021 15:29:48 92 16
bbc
And meanwhile we're pressing on with HS2
25/02/2021 22:32:21 3 12
bbc
YOU ,,HS2 MOB ARE JUST THAT A MOB,, OF UNTHINKING PERSONS,, WITH NO VISION OF FUTURE REQUIREMENTS...THIS TYPE OF WORK TAKES YEARS,, TO EVEN BE USABLE!! BY WHICH TIME ITS REQUIRED,,
5
25/02/2021 15:29:51 627 9
bbc
Ooh. Let me guess ?

Fewer trains, but inflation-busting fare rises every year until eternity.
207
25/02/2021 16:02:22 242 75
bbc
Yes. Fewer trains, but no driver or 'guard' redundancies.

We'll have driverless cars before we have driverless trains. How does that make sense?
782
25/02/2021 18:28:26 2 0
bbc
It remains to be seen what will happen when we return to normal. You have other business people saying they expect people to come into the workplace (might even be another open HYS).

This announcement would fit nicely into the Government's recent cut to rail funding, in fact that is what this announcement is about!
835
25/02/2021 18:46:00 0 0
bbc
Well the lack of trains means the infrastructure will rot and rust so they'll have to pay for it somehow. (Typed with fingers crossed behind my back.)
Yes. 1488 Removed
6
kh
25/02/2021 15:30:37 252 11
bbc
Presumably they want to ensure trains are still overcrowded and overpriced?
571
25/02/2021 17:22:41 135 8
bbc
Ukgov still busy trying to push public transport.
Bus timetables axed and limited after 6 pm (outside londonium).
South Coast to Stoke by train, single, return, off peak about £125. Not including 2 buses or taxis each end journey, times 2 for return. Time 4 hrs 30mins not Inc Stoke end taxi / bus.
Car time 3 hrs 30mins (no tolls), petrol £25 each way, £50 return.
4 in car £12.50 each return.
715
25/02/2021 18:02:00 5 0
bbc
it would appear so; maybe don't let people run train networks who hate other people?
25/02/2021 22:23:08 1 0
bbc
THATS BEEN THE MORAL OF THIS SYSTEM FOR YEARS RECORD RISES and WORSE CONDITIONS??
7
25/02/2021 15:31:38 785 88
bbc
So why do we need HS2?
19
Bob
25/02/2021 15:34:14 201 611
bbc
Because HS2 is about speed and reliability as much as it is expanding capacity.
21
25/02/2021 15:34:28 146 40
bbc
We don't.
34
25/02/2021 15:35:56 126 32
bbc
Because people are earning from it.

Namely fat cats.
35
25/02/2021 15:36:11 85 32
bbc
Phase one won't even open for another 10 years. As with every other massive infrastructure project - if you wait until you need it, you won't have it until it is far too late.
48
25/02/2021 15:39:13 122 28
bbc
There was dubious benefit of HS2 before, and zero now - in fact we need to divert the funds to other economic stimuli so keeping it is a net negative in its current form.
Possibly merit in east-west infrastructure, but we don't need a high speed link to the South East which will just extend the London commuter belt to Birmingham and Manchester - which doesn't create a powerhouse in the North!
74
25/02/2021 15:43:50 66 74
bbc
Because once the pandemic is over the lines going North out of London particularly the West Coast line have no capacity. HS2 frees up additional capacity and reduces delays on other lines caused by bottlenecks in the existing network.
77
25/02/2021 15:44:24 56 50
bbc
Because of expected huge growth in railfreight because of online shopping growth. More container boxes need to be transported from more distribution centres and the current line can’t add any more. That’s why.
99
25/02/2021 15:47:48 33 72
bbc
For better inter-city connections between our major industrial centres!
121
25/02/2021 15:49:32 33 52
bbc
Why do we need weaving machines? So that Luddites have something to complain about.
137
25/02/2021 15:51:16 97 31
bbc
we don't . it's a political vanity project.
151
25/02/2021 15:54:17 37 20
bbc
We don't.
Never did.
Never will.
222
25/02/2021 16:05:54 18 33
bbc
Because it frees up capacity on other lines and helps the transportation of freight. Also it annoys Chris Packham.
232
25/02/2021 16:07:45 5 13
bbc
Because the investment in it is past the point of no return.
245
25/02/2021 16:10:20 19 5
bbc
Because London needs more people from the North to do their work for them. This was all HS2 was ever about. There is no benefit to anywhere else.

Incidentally that need has now been eliminated by WFH, which makes this waste of public money somehow an even worse decision than it originally was.
294
25/02/2021 16:21:07 15 13
bbc
Because our rail system is Victorian and needs investment-including HS2.
It’s falling apart witness structure failure,land slips etc
HS2 is a big but necessary part-the only thing that will let it down is cost to the passenger.Somewhere like Italy is spending an absolute fortune on high speed an freight infrastructure but the cost of a ticket for passengers is well worth every euro
390
Ian
25/02/2021 16:40:06 9 12
bbc
Loading gauge is the big issue.
Most of our tunnels and bridges are too low or too narrow.

If HS2 is not built, more goods will use the road instead.
393
25/02/2021 16:40:39 9 5
bbc
Because pockets need lining.....
402
25/02/2021 16:42:56 6 11
bbc
Long term infrastructure projects create jobs and HS2 will free up capacity on our creaking Victorian railways. It is definitely more useful in the medium term than another robot looking at rocks and dust millions of miles away on Mars!!
420
25/02/2021 16:47:29 11 3
bbc
We don’t I can do Doncaster to kings cross in 85mins if I have to, bit longer if I want to work on the laptop, improve the infra structure and connectivity don’t spend money on something we can’t afford to use
434
25/02/2021 16:50:23 6 6
bbc
We don't...
492
25/02/2021 17:03:30 7 5
bbc
I have yet to meet anyone who wants HS2 so why are we blindly going on with it?
I could understand Eurostar going to Manchester, Edinbro and even Dublin to reduce flights, but HS2 is pointless.
493
25/02/2021 17:03:33 6 5
bbc
With the explosion of remote working plus everyone using MS Teams, Google Meet etc for collaboration and meeting....why do we need these fast links? The days of mass transport for work and commuting are now gone. We can work smarter rather than harder.
558
25/02/2021 17:18:38 2 8
bbc
It's not about this year, it's about the future !

You come from Yorkshire though, you don't understand do you - bless !
8
25/02/2021 15:32:13 4 2
bbc
I predict that they predict a prediction.
9
25/02/2021 15:32:23 9 5
bbc
Not a surprise. In a time of pandemic who wants to travel on crwded public transport. It means that encouraging people to use public transport may not be very successful.
62
25/02/2021 15:41:17 3 3
bbc
That’s true now, and probably for the next 6 months. However once the pandemic is over and fades into memory public transport usage will bounce back.
10
25/02/2021 15:32:41 521 84
bbc
Any business case that ever existed for HS2 now looks even more implausible.
51
25/02/2021 15:39:27 186 137
bbc
The business case for HS2 still exists, the problem is capacity on the lines particularly the west coast line up to Glasgow, which serves Birmingham, Manchester, and Liverpool. Existing lines can’t cope, and the pandemic will be forgotten about in 5 years time. The U.K. population is only going one way which is up. We now have a population of 70m, at least twice what it was
244
25/02/2021 16:10:19 3 4
bbc
Problem at this point is so much cost has already been sunk, The business case is only needs to be based on any outstanding costs.
257
25/02/2021 16:14:40 24 7
bbc
As in getting cars off the road, planes out of the sky, boosting extra capacity for freight and regional travel on the congested West Coast Main Line, making journeys faster oh and catching up to European rail standards who are decades ahead? Yeah no business case at all.
635
25/02/2021 17:38:50 3 2
bbc
The case for HS2 is strengthened by this! It’s about getting people onto trains and out of cars, not giving up because more people are turning to cars.
713
25/02/2021 18:01:26 0 1
bbc
You forget though, brown envelopes weren't built for plausibility!
786
25/02/2021 18:29:33 0 0
bbc
It remains to be seen what will happen when we return to normal. You have other business people saying they expect people to come into the workplace (might even be another open HYS).

This announcement would fit nicely into the Government's recent cut to rail funding, in fact that is what this announcement is about!

HS2 is about infrastructure investment and creating profit and employment.
825
25/02/2021 18:43:52 0 1
bbc
Very silly comment. I'm in favour of HS2 but in light of today's announcement how does it make sense?

The Tories have recently cut rail investment, which is really why this Charlie is saying we need fewer trains.

The Tories are investing in HS2 but cutting back on rail projects elsewhere, so how does it make sense?
11
25/02/2021 15:33:07 4 3
bbc
"Get used to fewer trains, says rail body".

Tragically yet another truism from the EBC.

When it rains the ground gets wet. But nobody needs to say that.

More people will working from home and not using trains.
91
25/02/2021 15:46:04 2 1
bbc
Headline writers love to wind the public up to justified their existence. A headline "Train services to match number of travellers " does not have the same ring!
118
25/02/2021 15:49:20 0 2
bbc
That will only be in the short term. Once the pandemic fades into memory working from home will diminish rapidly. WFH is terrible for most people especially the young living in cramped homes
12
25/02/2021 15:33:10 282 89
bbc
More evidence that HS2 isn't needed! Scrap it and protect the environment and spend the money on what is needed - a green recovery.
25
25/02/2021 15:34:35 122 40
bbc
How about a decent standard of living for the working public.
65
25/02/2021 15:42:07 5 3
bbc
Protect the environment! Wait for the current infrastructure to all apart with the resulting rolling repairs forcing people back to cars! Foolish
94
25/02/2021 15:46:22 14 6
bbc
The pandemic will end and then what. Current rail network hasn’t got the capacity for a country of 70m. If you don’t improve the rail network people will travel by road or air, which is actually worse for the environment
168
25/02/2021 15:56:27 9 1
bbc
I appluad you, but unfortunately the government aren't listening.
Money talks and unfortunately we (us plebs) do not.
200
25/02/2021 16:01:36 9 8
bbc
HS2 is of course WAY BETTER for the environment than road users. In fact rail is one of the greenest forms of transport, so why does everyone keep knocking HS2 on environmental grounds?
642
25/02/2021 17:39:37 0 0
bbc
It’s exactly the opposite!
714
25/02/2021 18:01:30 3 0
bbc
So instead of having a train that can run on renewable energy carrying people from say Manchester to London those same people can travel by air using fossil fuels instead. That really sounds like a green recovery sure you don't work for the airlines?
26/02/2021 12:52:36 0 0
bbc
Relying on planes and the car for U.K. long distant travel within the U.K. is what’s wrong. What do think happens to the rubber from all those tyres getting worn down? More Rail, more trams and less cars.
13
25/02/2021 15:33:38 4 4
bbc
10% fewer drivers then?
75
25/02/2021 15:43:53 3 1
bbc
With the number of drivers close to retirement & to ensure trains don't get cancelled due to lack of a driver the numbers need to be kept high. Tight rotas already cause problems if there are delays on incoming services
610
25/02/2021 17:31:14 0 0
bbc
Even fewer, driverless is the next step. Also remember fewer trains = longer trains, back to 14 carriages
14
25/02/2021 15:33:40 6 4
bbc
Working from home as a train driver.

That's called Train Simulator.
15
25/02/2021 15:33:50 119 39
bbc
Inevitable. How anyone can justify HS2 is beyond me. What a criminal waste of money. Anyone can see that investing in digital infrastructure is the obvious choice
84
25/02/2021 15:44:59 89 29
bbc
Boris won't scrap it because it will make him look like a mug. Vanity project is all it is.
706
25/02/2021 17:59:00 1 0
bbc
The trouble is, there's never any option on the back of those brown envelopes to insert a 'Return To Sender' address!!
16
25/02/2021 15:33:53 6 1
bbc
So off peak tickets all round then I guess...?
17
25/02/2021 15:34:02 129 38
bbc
The HS2 vanity project looks like even more of an expensive white elephant then.
731
25/02/2021 18:09:06 34 5
bbc
The partners and spouses of the company directors involved thank you for their holiday in Barbados though!
785
25/02/2021 18:29:30 1 1
bbc
more of an expensive white star; elephant is not big enough..
Nice views. Beautiful country you have got there, dear Britons. Ignore the architecture and it could be Paraparamu- Wellington train ride.
Lucky, lucky you. Though fewer rides for you from now on.
38
25/02/2021 15:37:49 2 1
bbc
Yeah, there's nothing like travelling by train to give you a lovely view of all the back yards & allotments of every town you go through. The bits in between are gorgeous though, especially along the coast.
153
25/02/2021 15:54:31 1 0
bbc
Oh yeah, the paraparam line right next to the cliff face and Cook Strait wind. The two carriage bum rattler and usual rubblish service from the staff. But at least the views are better. Just shy of an hour of boredom if I remember rightly...
7
25/02/2021 15:31:38 785 88
bbc
So why do we need HS2?
19
Bob
25/02/2021 15:34:14 201 611
bbc
Because HS2 is about speed and reliability as much as it is expanding capacity.
82
25/02/2021 15:44:59 71 31
bbc
Speedily and reliably providing a service that no-one wants or needs and will want and need even less by the time the thing finally wheezes into action. This is, quite literally, no way to run a railroad.
178
25/02/2021 15:57:45 43 20
bbc
@Bob "speed and reliability" - that first one is barely even true. Leeds to London will be 25 minutes faster using HS2. A projected cost of over £100 billion to save a pathetic 25 minutes. Surely there are better uses for the money.
187
25/02/2021 15:59:27 40 14
bbc
HS2 is a high speed gravy train for those employed on it, but it will do nothing either for the travelling public or the environment.
216
25/02/2021 16:04:06 23 12
bbc
Sorry that is nonsense. Speed used to be the reason but even the proponents have agreed that is not the reason in these days of working on the train. Reliability could be addressed in other ways. This and East West Rail will be criminal wastes of money.
230
25/02/2021 16:07:17 37 14
bbc
Yeah...getting to London 20mins quicker. A time saving negated by taxi queues at Euston. Genius
317
nog
25/02/2021 16:25:32 9 3
bbc
No point if there isn't the demand.
349
25/02/2021 16:32:25 16 6
bbc
Its a white elephant to allow an already wealthy minority to make a lot of money
364
25/02/2021 16:35:25 5 2
bbc
It isn't.
433
25/02/2021 16:50:19 6 7
bbc
And HS2 isn't about commuter demand.
Its about LONG DISTANCE demand which as Peter says, WILL keep increasing.
487
25/02/2021 17:02:52 8 6
bbc
I will not see any benefit from HS2 in my lifetime. I object to my taxes being used to fund this project when I am not able to access public services I need now. A prime example, I have waited 5 weeks to see my GP as a result of falling downstairs. However, they have told me I can’t have an appointment because my condition is improving! It stinks!
495
25/02/2021 17:03:57 9 4
bbc
Lol hs2 has nothing to do with speed, reliability, or capacity. Just a series of excuse lies made up to shovel money to mates. Almost no one will use it. Even less than pre covid due to Zoom etc. Becoming standard instead of travel.
I was interviewed this week by someone based in Australia! Beat that snail rail!
503
25/02/2021 17:05:41 8 3
bbc
It's the obsession with speed and development that is destroying the planet. The real reason this project has been given the green light is cronyism. It's not in the public or environment's interest at all.
506
25/02/2021 17:06:37 8 5
bbc
If there are fewer services on existing lines then greater capacity is not needed. Remaining services will be more reliable. And as for speed - a marginal gain of 30 minutes is a specious argument. There remains no convincing case in favour of HS2. Rename it H2S - it stinks as much.
541
25/02/2021 17:16:24 1 0
bbc
Speed maybe but reliability I doubt it
567
25/02/2021 17:21:23 6 3
bbc
Cobblers from an HS" employer or worker perhaps! Capacity needs are declining and people still have to wait for taxis and buses in London or Birmingham which aren't high speed to get them to and from stations. And there is no need for daily face to face meetings that last an hour and take five hours to get to and from, we can use Zoom or teams for that.
20
25/02/2021 15:34:19 59 25
bbc
Nationalise them please, this private business thing does not help the country
60
25/02/2021 15:41:16 6 1
bbc
At least they are heading to management only contracts which is a good compromise. The Government already control the timetables in the existing now suspended franchise deals and even stipulate the trains and number of carriages to be used
66
25/02/2021 15:42:16 9 5
bbc
I don't agree with the franchise system - there is no competition if you want to go from A to B

However, the profit element is about 2% - so if you think a nationalised industry will be as efficient, fares will drop by up to 2%. If less efficient, fares will go up. This noise that fare rises are due to massive profits is nonsense

Fares are high as little subsidy from gvt unlike other countries
202
25/02/2021 16:01:48 4 2
bbc
You didn't travel on British Rail trains did you...?
276
25/02/2021 16:18:13 4 0
bbc
nationalised trains will mean more tax being paid by those who do not use them.
Removed
7
25/02/2021 15:31:38 785 88
bbc
So why do we need HS2?
21
25/02/2021 15:34:28 146 40
bbc
We don't.
22
25/02/2021 15:34:28 130 21
bbc
So HS2 is a waste of money then?

Proof we should be reinvesting more in our already existing rail network. Could be a good chance to invest in the rail networks of seaside towns and places like Cornwall and Blackpool? Extra weekend and holiday traffic could be brilliant economically for these areas.
57
25/02/2021 15:40:50 45 24
bbc
S2 is about those long distance routes more than the commuter stuff. The extra capcity will also allow more freight trains on the old tracks and of course make it easier to do engineering works on the old tracks as they new ones can still be used.
655
25/02/2021 17:43:32 3 2
bbc
I like this kind of statement. It shows a complete lack of understanding. Not your fault, a complete failure of HS2 to communicate.

HS2 is the cheapest way to free up capacity on the existing network.
752
25/02/2021 18:18:47 3 0
bbc
it gives a very poor return on investment; far better uses for the Money.
897
Edg
25/02/2021 19:15:27 3 0
bbc
£300 subsidy per passenger journey
2
25/02/2021 15:30:07 292 62
bbc
"People prefer reliability to journey times"
Welp looks like HS2 is a waste of money then ??
23
kh
25/02/2021 15:31:38 148 58
bbc
By the time HS2 is complete everybody else will be using hyperloop tracks.
81
25/02/2021 15:44:55 14 6
bbc
Been at Uncle Elon's Kool-Aid again, have you?
327
25/02/2021 16:24:55 8 0
bbc
You are dreaming. There at least 50 years off
399
25/02/2021 16:38:54 7 0
bbc
hyperloop tracks that don't work.
438
25/02/2021 16:50:56 5 1
bbc
Hyper RUBBISH
525
25/02/2021 17:10:56 2 1
bbc
Hyperloop if ever built would have a tiny capacity - designed only for the very rich.
631
25/02/2021 17:37:30 2 0
bbc
or being living on Mars
665
25/02/2021 17:45:56 2 0
bbc
We'll all be dead!
800
25/02/2021 18:34:40 1 0
bbc
by the time HS2 is complete. We'll be teleporting to our destinations, office and all..
24
25/02/2021 15:33:30 11 6
bbc
Good idea - fewer trains. Let's squash people together and ensure that we spread the virus!
12
25/02/2021 15:33:10 282 89
bbc
More evidence that HS2 isn't needed! Scrap it and protect the environment and spend the money on what is needed - a green recovery.
25
25/02/2021 15:34:35 122 40
bbc
How about a decent standard of living for the working public.
173
25/02/2021 15:56:52 4 4
bbc
You actually got a downvote!
213
25/02/2021 16:03:07 3 2
bbc
How does the existence/non-existence of HS2 have any bearing on that?
411
25/02/2021 16:45:57 0 2
bbc
'The working public'....how quaint....define who is not a member of 'the working public'., or maybe it's just a case of power to the people, all comrades together.
672
25/02/2021 17:47:27 0 0
bbc
It's there if you work for it.
753
25/02/2021 18:18:51 0 0
bbc
That will never catch on!
819
25/02/2021 18:42:54 0 0
bbc
Join the railway industry then, build something and enjoy the rewards.
26
25/02/2021 15:34:44 1 10
bbc
Tha Paddington to Penzance train has always been packed in the summer, especially on Fridays afternoon/evening. During summer 2018 I've known people have to stand at least as far as Exeter. Don't understand why people come on holiday without the means to move around once they get here.
26/02/2021 10:21:46 0 0
bbc
Cornwall has an effective bus network and a number of railway branch lines. Not everyone wants to hunt for an expensive parking space in their over-heated tin boxes!
2
25/02/2021 15:30:07 292 62
bbc
"People prefer reliability to journey times"
Welp looks like HS2 is a waste of money then ??
27
25/02/2021 15:35:02 10 9
bbc
The new HS2 will give new track which should (hopefully) be more reliable.
172
25/02/2021 15:56:51 12 9
bbc
£100bn+ of spend and you 'hope' it will be more reliable? I would never sign off this business case - and nor should anyone. We must recut the coat to the cloth we see before us - HS2 has to change drastically or be cut out completely.
28
25/02/2021 15:35:06 5 1
bbc
Commuter demand will take time to return, but general rail use is likely to increase the coming years. Longer trains are needed in many areas, rather than more trains, but it will take time to get enough rolling stock and lengthen platforms.
29
25/02/2021 15:35:37 64 22
bbc
"You shouldn't try to get more out of the infrastructure than it can give you." Says the chair of the organisation in charge of maintaining the infrastructure....

That's basically admitting that they aren't doing their jobs well enough....
248
25/02/2021 16:11:27 37 22
bbc
No it isn't - wow you must have got low marks in comprehension. Past governments have encouraged (even pressurised) train operators to run more trains with a promise that the infrastructure will be improved to take them. Then it's removed the funding for the infrastructure work but insisted the extra trains still run. Nothing to do with not doing their jobs well enough - just DfT incompetence.
25/02/2021 22:35:47 0 1
bbc
YOUR QUITE RIGHT!! BUT THEN WATCH THE WORKERS SUPPOSED TO BE GETTING THINGS DONE<< UMMMM,,TEA TIME/REST TIME / DAY DREAMING TIME/ETC?? MANY YEARS BACK CALLED LAZY??
30
25/02/2021 15:35:41 2 1
bbc
And put the fares up above inflation... A good compromise!
31
25/02/2021 15:35:43 165 12
bbc
The pandemic timetable has run with 90%+ punctuality. Trying to cram in as many trains as possible simply doesn't work. Longer trains running slightly less often (every 15 mins, instead of every 10, for example) means capacity is maintained, but reliability is improved. It really is a "no-brainer".
86
25/02/2021 15:45:26 169 7
bbc
Yes but its not as simplistic as every 15 mins instead of 10, anyone can cope with that, its worse when you say every 2 hours instead of every hour.... or maybe a twice daily service instead of the 5 times a day service. Then it affects you...
174
25/02/2021 15:56:54 11 1
bbc
"90% punctuality" does not mean "on time". It means "not more than X minutes late", where X is a number that can vary quite widely.
346
25/02/2021 16:29:00 12 2
bbc
Please tell that to your employer when you get in later and later or your family when you leave before dawn to in work as the commute takes twice as long and you still end up standing all the way
546
25/02/2021 17:17:24 7 1
bbc
Most areas already have the longest possible trains they can have. Factors such as platform length and flat junctions restrict increasing train lengths.

People actually prefer turn-up-and-go services to longer wait times, and that really means no longer than 15 minutes in between services. So losing a small number of services (5 an hour instead of 6) is fine, and frees up spaces for recovery.
628
25/02/2021 17:36:37 0 1
bbc
And you have to lengthen most of the platforms on the system.
32
25/02/2021 15:35:46 323 20
bbc
Sir Peter Hendy says You shouldn't try to get more out of the infrastructure than it can give you. All of my experience is that people prefer reliability to journey time. In my experience sir peter they also prefer seats... I bet that doesn't figure in your penny pinching effort.....
224
25/02/2021 16:06:01 108 55
bbc
Maybe because Sir Peter Hendy has NOTHING to do with onboard seating or train capacity - he works for the infrastructure people. Try to read the job description, it'll help you a lot.
746
25/02/2021 18:16:11 0 0
bbc
You can only take that idea up to a point. Doubling journey times will not offset increased reliability.
788
25/02/2021 18:30:36 0 0
bbc
It remains to be seen what will happen when we return to normal. You have other business people saying they expect people to come into the workplace (might even be another open HYS).

This announcement would fit nicely into the Government's recent cut to rail funding, in fact that is what this announcement is about!
25/02/2021 21:25:34 0 0
bbc
Sounds like another "Dr Beeching"
33
25/02/2021 15:35:55 226 49
bbc
Many people can't afford to use rail travel because of the repeated above inflation fare increases imposed by the Tories. It's far cheaper to use a car - especially if there's more than one person travelling, and there's a much better chance of getting home again.
53
25/02/2021 15:39:54 163 35
bbc
So the fare increases from the Blair/Brown governments can just be ignored?
61
25/02/2021 15:41:16 22 2
bbc
If there are more than 2 of you & you're too old for a young person's railcard & too young for an old person's railcard, it's actually cheaper to travel by taxi, especially if you'd have a taxi journey at either end anyway. Plus you never have to carry your own bags. Phone your local taxi company for a quote, it won't be meter rates.
421
LEO
25/02/2021 16:47:40 23 5
bbc
Why do you say "imposed by the Tories" when rail inreases have gone up under most governments for a long time? You are obviously a blinkered Tory basher.
544
25/02/2021 17:17:05 1 1
bbc
Oh yes I forgot labour never increased prices, and it was cheap for a family to use the trains compared to a car. Silly me!
25/02/2021 22:05:55 0 0
bbc
Sometimes its cheaper to use a Taxi !
26/02/2021 13:39:12 0 0
bbc
So simple solution, just use a car. Lots of benefits: door-to-door, not limited to timetable, privacy, cheaper.
7
25/02/2021 15:31:38 785 88
bbc
So why do we need HS2?
34
25/02/2021 15:35:56 126 32
bbc
Because people are earning from it.

Namely fat cats.
7
25/02/2021 15:31:38 785 88
bbc
So why do we need HS2?
35
25/02/2021 15:36:11 85 32
bbc
Phase one won't even open for another 10 years. As with every other massive infrastructure project - if you wait until you need it, you won't have it until it is far too late.
188
25/02/2021 15:59:41 10 11
bbc
Hard to believe it was kicked off as a way to stimulate the economy after 2008 crash. We need to kick off HS3 asap for 2050!
337
25/02/2021 16:29:47 3 5
bbc
Maybe that’s the reason Crossrail (Elizabeth line) is delayed, so it will be ready when demand picks up again
342
bob
25/02/2021 16:31:17 1 1
bbc
It's the Maginot Line
36
25/02/2021 15:36:51 19 10
bbc
HS2 needs to be scrapped as many have said for ages. Rather than fewer trains on standard routes the only chance they have is put more carriages on so people can spread out and be safe if you have to travel. However, with the new working world though, is will people have to?
47
25/02/2021 15:39:07 5 7
bbc
And when the current infrastructure falls apart, who do we blame when we have long closures to repair/upgrade? Perhaps we should go back to the horse and cart? Damn whoever invented teh wheel, they started this issue!
103
25/02/2021 15:48:05 1 1
bbc
Put more carriages on equals a higher cost to the overall infrastructure than HS2.
37
25/02/2021 15:37:43 13 5
bbc
I disagree - eventually commuting will return but in the meantime the same number of trains should be available. It might mean that everyone can get a seat rather than paying a fortune to stand on a packed train!
149
25/02/2021 15:53:23 1 2
bbc
You don't think over-capacity will mean paying a fortune as well? Get rid of the oldest rolling stock and in readiness for when the demand returns - which will likely be years away.
Nice views. Beautiful country you have got there, dear Britons. Ignore the architecture and it could be Paraparamu- Wellington train ride.
Lucky, lucky you. Though fewer rides for you from now on.
38
25/02/2021 15:37:49 2 1
bbc
Yeah, there's nothing like travelling by train to give you a lovely view of all the back yards & allotments of every town you go through. The bits in between are gorgeous though, especially along the coast.
39
25/02/2021 15:38:03 2 1
bbc
A long train ride to Chingford.
40
25/02/2021 15:38:04 9 4
bbc
Not sure how, what ever government , will encourage people to be more green when any train ticked each year goes higher and higher . Less trains, people being treated like sardines and unaffordable cost of travel They should seek example of even easter European countries where price of train ticket is cheaper than traveling by car. But for now I't rather use car than train.
41
25/02/2021 15:38:04 141 42
bbc
So HS2's main argument was that it provided capacity. How long do we have to persist with throwing good money after bad? Sunk cost fallacy
Sorry but it must go on as too many government cronies have their snouts in the troughs and looking after their mates is all the government cares about. Removed
76
25/02/2021 15:43:58 9 3
bbc
That we need extra capacity is not in doubt but does it need to be high speed? Trains running at up to 130 mph can negotiate curves and gradients. There is also an urgent need to take freight off the roads if only for environmental reasons.
569
25/02/2021 17:21:43 6 1
bbc
To be fair it provides capacity on the area of the network that is massively restricted at the moment. They should have reduced the speed a little so they could route to better places, and have a few more stops on the way because that's half the point of a travel network. However, the high-speed aspect is far less important so those old trees could have been saved.
779
25/02/2021 18:27:50 1 0
bbc
Spot on
42
25/02/2021 15:38:24 21 7
bbc
Remind me why the Troy’s used uk tax payer money bail out foreign owned train owners.
43
25/02/2021 15:38:27 24 12
bbc
So fewer trains must mean fewer train drivers & staff involved in the whole train service....
Or are the unions going to insist on the same staffing levels?....

If so, no wonder the fares keep rising at exorbitant prices & people either don't bother or invest in a car...
88
25/02/2021 15:45:38 21 2
bbc
An anytime return Birmingham-London ticket costs £120 (I just checked). I am simply NOT paying that, when I can drive there and back for £75 less.
90
25/02/2021 15:45:55 5 6
bbc
Yep, it's the drivers fault that trains are so expensive and the service is poor. Nothing to do with shareholders creaming off profits which should be reinvested into improving the service. Another of the "successes" of the witch Thatcher and her cronies.
44
25/02/2021 15:38:31 15 21
bbc
If there will be fewer trains then we don't need as many union-luvvie drivers on 80k a year for driving a glorified bus on tracks. Of course they will strike once redundancies are announced though and we will all suffer. That's the problem with unions
56
25/02/2021 15:40:47 16 3
bbc
You don't know much about driving trains or for that matter, buses.
64
mat
25/02/2021 15:41:37 5 2
bbc
Yeah those nasty unions...sticking up for peoples rights. I expect you would prefer bringing back the poor houses....typical Tory!
72
25/02/2021 15:43:14 4 1
bbc
have you ever visited the planet earth?
73
25/02/2021 15:43:46 7 2
bbc
If it hadn't been for trade unions in years gone by, you wouldn't be in the privileged position of being able to sit and slag them off on your computer. I, for one, am proud of the achievements of my grandfather and his colleagues in obtaining so many rights for us in the face of determined opposition. Feel ashamed.
112
25/02/2021 15:48:49 0 1
bbc
"That's the problem with unions" is usually subtext for "bring back indentured servitude"
133
25/02/2021 15:51:07 1 2
bbc
Indeed. We are beyond unions now - society is much better connected and able to influence policy. They were needed once when employers held the upper hand but now they as outdated as organised religion and just as toxic.
45
25/02/2021 15:38:50 0 0
bbc
They should cut 9 / 10 trains. I am bored queueing at rail road crossings, with scores of other cars, whilst trains a mile long with one person on them pass by.
101
25/02/2021 15:48:03 5 2
bbc
They should cut car use. I am bored queuing at road crossings, with scores of other pedestrians, whilst car after car with one person in them pass by.
46
25/02/2021 15:38:50 20 4
bbc
Well isn't this a surprise.Giving the train companies a get out of jail card.Already failing on punctuality ,how about we cut journeys so failings are reduced? This country is going backwards
36
25/02/2021 15:36:51 19 10
bbc
HS2 needs to be scrapped as many have said for ages. Rather than fewer trains on standard routes the only chance they have is put more carriages on so people can spread out and be safe if you have to travel. However, with the new working world though, is will people have to?
47
25/02/2021 15:39:07 5 7
bbc
And when the current infrastructure falls apart, who do we blame when we have long closures to repair/upgrade? Perhaps we should go back to the horse and cart? Damn whoever invented teh wheel, they started this issue!
120
25/02/2021 15:49:30 0 1
bbc
Don't woory - td62 has a large stock of square wheels...
7
25/02/2021 15:31:38 785 88
bbc
So why do we need HS2?
48
25/02/2021 15:39:13 122 28
bbc
There was dubious benefit of HS2 before, and zero now - in fact we need to divert the funds to other economic stimuli so keeping it is a net negative in its current form.
Possibly merit in east-west infrastructure, but we don't need a high speed link to the South East which will just extend the London commuter belt to Birmingham and Manchester - which doesn't create a powerhouse in the North!
191
25/02/2021 15:59:54 15 1
bbc
OK - so let's say you live in Manchester but work in London. Where do you spend your money? Probably online lol.

But the point is that we do not have a clue what a post-covid economy will look like. Will lots of people WFH? Will London become hollowed out? Will London/SE jobs move north (as it is cheaper) and change to WFH?
331
25/02/2021 16:28:31 20 5
bbc
"...will just extend the London commuter belt to Birmingham and Manchester - which doesn't create a powerhouse in the North!"
===
Politicians lie.
If they were serious about a a "Northern Power-House" then they would have STARTED HS2 in the North and worked south-wards. They didn't. They aren't.
49
25/02/2021 15:39:15 10 4
bbc
Does that mean that fewer trains will run on time now.
124
25/02/2021 15:49:56 0 5
bbc
Please specify if you mean that the number of trains running on time will diminish or the proportion of trains running on time will diminish.
373
25/02/2021 16:37:10 0 0
bbc
Over the past year, due to the reduced service levels, the percentage of trains arriving at stations early or on time (as opposed to arriving at their destination within five or ten minutes of the advertised time) has increased from an average of 64.6% to an average of 77.2%.

Conversely, the number of station stops has dropped from an average of 80,918,337 to 69,414,456 over the same period.
50
25/02/2021 15:39:23 5 3
bbc
....could save communters "hundreds of pounds". I think that's called "Know your client".
10
25/02/2021 15:32:41 521 84
bbc
Any business case that ever existed for HS2 now looks even more implausible.
51
25/02/2021 15:39:27 186 137
bbc
The business case for HS2 still exists, the problem is capacity on the lines particularly the west coast line up to Glasgow, which serves Birmingham, Manchester, and Liverpool. Existing lines can’t cope, and the pandemic will be forgotten about in 5 years time. The U.K. population is only going one way which is up. We now have a population of 70m, at least twice what it was
206
25/02/2021 16:02:19 24 23
bbc
There was never a business case for HS2. It is even more of a money-burner now than it was before. Fares will be so high that even well-paid business travellers will not want to pay through the nose to save 45 mins.
226
25/02/2021 16:06:32 20 7
bbc
The business case needs to be revised. Why are people holed up in London Euston protesting HS2 if what we need is better services between the Midlands, North and Scottish cities? HS2 is still too London focused.
231
25/02/2021 16:07:23 14 5
bbc
Far too sensible a response for HYS, David. I'm surprised the comment hasnt been removed
239
25/02/2021 16:09:07 32 5
bbc
“We now have a population of 70m, at least twice what it was”

Whatever our population is, it is always twice what it once was!
277
25/02/2021 16:18:19 15 2
bbc
"The U.K. population is only going one way which is up. We now have a population of 70m, at least twice what it was"

Well any number you choose will be twice what it was at some point.
325
25/02/2021 16:27:13 7 5
bbc
Didn't you read the bit about peak travel levels not returning?
444
25/02/2021 16:52:40 10 3
bbc
The population needs to stabilise - continuous growth - in population and economy - will only have one bad ending.
472
25/02/2021 16:59:57 5 1
bbc
Not only will the pandemic be a bad memory in 5 years time, many office workers will work from home much of the time, only visiting offices for meetings.

That means workers will be able to live further away from their offices and will be willing to pay a premium to get there when they do have to.
508
25/02/2021 17:07:18 3 7
bbc
70 million? Thats around twice what it was in 1905....our population is going to reduce due to lower birth rate and much less inward migration in the future. Not exactly an attractive place to come nowadays the UK.
601
25/02/2021 17:28:51 7 2
bbc
Sorry David, The business case for HS2 is a bit like the case put forward for the Iraq war (2). HS2 should have started linking the North up together first and only then to the south and not making the commuter belt bigger in the south.
611
25/02/2021 17:31:54 5 4
bbc
the return per £1 spent is way lower than other projects so the busines case is very very very very very very very weak.... unless you are unable to use logic
659
25/02/2021 17:44:44 2 1
bbc
Population of UK was 34mil in 1891 - half of what it is now. A useless fact but at least I am not trying to use it a to prove a point.
684
25/02/2021 17:49:45 4 3
bbc
Ah, so it's just as I suspected:

The real problem is that no-one wants to call a halt to the continuing growth in the UK's population.

So instead they'll build an expensive railway and carry on paving and concreting over more and more of what's left of our "green and pleasant land" so that we can cram more people into what is already one of the most densely populated countries in the world.
893
Edg
25/02/2021 19:13:58 0 1
bbc
Have you read it, its pathetic. no costing, no financial case
25/02/2021 20:20:54 0 1
bbc
You forgot that advancing technology will make commuting largely redundant in a few years. Empty trains headed for empty city centres. Not very smart thinking.
25/02/2021 20:39:33 0 0
bbc
"We now have a population of 70m, at least twice what it was"
66 million I think.
25/02/2021 21:05:01 0 1
bbc
Population not 70m but 68m (rounded), 52m 1960 when I was born, twice what it was when exactly? Environmentally HS2 struggles to match the need for it against the cost, business upheaval (on route businesses lost), loss of greenbelt etc. As cost have spiralled, as ever with such large projects, now not later is the time to call a halt to the project.
25/02/2021 21:51:40 1 0
bbc
The only passengers using it north of Birmingham will be the fare dodgers
25/02/2021 22:43:50 0 1
bbc
That is not fact, west coast line is not the issue, I have travelled this line for decades. The delays are faults with the infrastructure and old stock, nothing to do with capacity.
25/02/2021 22:49:07 0 1
bbc
Existing lines can more than cope now and will do so easily with the permanent changes to peak hour capacity needs., with new working patterns now embedded through companies now adopting them; being beneficial to the majority of them and their staff. HS2 was not cost effective before the changes; it is dead in the water now. Boris and supporters are clinging to straws betting £106Bn otherwise
26/02/2021 00:52:39 0 1
bbc
>We now have a population of 70m, at least twice what it was
The fallacy of the never ending increase in population...
Unfortunately, we are entering a perfect storm, of which climate change is only one element, so far the government hasn't made any plans to weather the storm. Either way post circa 2050 the UK population will significantly lower than it is today, potentially as low as 6m...
26/02/2021 16:40:13 0 0
bbc
Population growth is slowing, it will stabilise and may shrink. London pop has shrunk, due to that B thing.
52
25/02/2021 15:39:41 112 15
bbc
How about the Chair of Network Rail getting used to being paid fewer fees. Last year they totalled $335,000.
109
25/02/2021 15:48:42 49 64
bbc
$ ??? Look before you type.
127
25/02/2021 15:50:20 9 5
bbc
Since when has Network Rail been owned by the US? I thought that it was owned by us.
632
25/02/2021 17:37:50 7 3
bbc
Why is he paid in foreign currency? Is it something to do with Brexit and a sell off to America?
685
25/02/2021 17:49:46 5 0
bbc
That’s an extremely expensive chair. I assume you mean chairman.
960
25/02/2021 19:49:09 1 1
bbc
How dare you! Have you no pride in our country or culture?

We're British not American.

I guess you call the police cops and you feast yourself on hotdogs and burgers.
25/02/2021 21:17:47 1 1
bbc
For one of the most complex jobs in the country! I imagine they could earn a lot more in the private sector.
33
25/02/2021 15:35:55 226 49
bbc
Many people can't afford to use rail travel because of the repeated above inflation fare increases imposed by the Tories. It's far cheaper to use a car - especially if there's more than one person travelling, and there's a much better chance of getting home again.
53
25/02/2021 15:39:54 163 35
bbc
So the fare increases from the Blair/Brown governments can just be ignored?
171
25/02/2021 15:56:46 18 5
bbc
Exactly. They DOUBLED under Labour.....
184
25/02/2021 15:58:37 18 7
bbc
No, but it should probably be kept in mind that they happened nearly eleven years ago. Plenty of time for the incumbents since to have reversed the trend.
250
25/02/2021 16:13:13 3 7
bbc
Point to me who said that in this thread, oh yeah, you, just you.
554
25/02/2021 17:12:51 4 2
bbc
no, but in those days people had pay rises.
668
25/02/2021 17:46:19 4 3
bbc
Labour haven't been in power for 11 years so they aren't to blame for where we are now.
25/02/2021 21:29:57 0 0
bbc
True, but Blair was a a tory leading the Labour party - Blairism meant tory lite
25/02/2021 22:25:52 0 0
bbc
THE WHOLE LOT HAVE BEEN AT THIS FOR YEARS,,, IT WILL TAKE A TOTAL BOYCOT FOR MONTHS,, FOR THE ROBBERS TO GET THE MESSAGE????
25/02/2021 23:25:18 0 0
bbc
They were true tories as well
54
25/02/2021 15:40:09 86 5
bbc
Get ready for weekend ticket prices to double.
312
25/02/2021 16:24:28 43 9
bbc
Just like 100 years ago, travelling by train is for the rich. The peasants have to make do with cars or planes.
55
25/02/2021 15:40:19 105 7
bbc
Less trains = more expensive tickets ! consumer be shafted again...
637
25/02/2021 17:38:56 34 11
bbc
I think you mean fewer trains - not ones with bits missing!
25/02/2021 22:28:26 0 0
bbc
ALWAYS??
44
25/02/2021 15:38:31 15 21
bbc
If there will be fewer trains then we don't need as many union-luvvie drivers on 80k a year for driving a glorified bus on tracks. Of course they will strike once redundancies are announced though and we will all suffer. That's the problem with unions
56
25/02/2021 15:40:47 16 3
bbc
You don't know much about driving trains or for that matter, buses.
22
25/02/2021 15:34:28 130 21
bbc
So HS2 is a waste of money then?

Proof we should be reinvesting more in our already existing rail network. Could be a good chance to invest in the rail networks of seaside towns and places like Cornwall and Blackpool? Extra weekend and holiday traffic could be brilliant economically for these areas.
57
25/02/2021 15:40:50 45 24
bbc
S2 is about those long distance routes more than the commuter stuff. The extra capcity will also allow more freight trains on the old tracks and of course make it easier to do engineering works on the old tracks as they new ones can still be used.
831
25/02/2021 18:45:32 2 0
bbc
There's room for extra freight trains they are running less commuter trains.

And freight trains tend to run at night when commuter trains are parked up.

Cannot see how that will change with HS2.
25/02/2021 22:59:04 3 0
bbc
There are no long distances in the UK The whole network could be radically upgraded for a fraction of the £106BN wasted on a quicker journey from a suburb of Brum to Old Oak Common. capacity is not an issue with 20 % of existing services being taken out of commission. The real need is in the North now.HS2 is a useless case.
41
25/02/2021 15:38:04 141 42
bbc
So HS2's main argument was that it provided capacity. How long do we have to persist with throwing good money after bad? Sunk cost fallacy
Sorry but it must go on as too many government cronies have their snouts in the troughs and looking after their mates is all the government cares about. Removed
59
25/02/2021 15:40:55 148 35
bbc
So if the Rail Minister says 'We are not going back to before - this is the new normal', why are we spending north of £110 billion on HS2???? That's the equivalent of 25% of the current national debt.
114
25/02/2021 15:45:31 47 47
bbc
Because even at a return to the lower estimate of 60%, we still need the additional capacity on the network, especially in the North.... and we need to do it now.. we can't wait another X years to start, when demand has returned and increased, as it takes years of work to actually make it happen.
247
MDW
25/02/2021 16:11:13 10 3
bbc
Um, national debt is well north of £2TN (incidentally, more than double what it was when the Cons took office in 2010 promising to balance the books with their austerity program... to be paid for by the less well off, of course).
353
25/02/2021 16:33:14 10 0
bbc
Rubbish. UK National debt is just over GBP 2 Trillion
526
25/02/2021 17:11:15 8 0
bbc
Another person that doesn’t understand the difference between debt and deficit.
633
25/02/2021 17:38:21 6 0
bbc
Good job you're not in charge of the treasury, it's around 5.5% of the UK National Debt which is nearly £2Trillion.
705
25/02/2021 17:58:36 4 0
bbc
Rubbish. Check your maths. Total National debt north of £2 trillion. £110m isn’t 25% of that.
The current excess of govt spending over income is estimated at £400m in 2020/2021 financial year. Is this what your referring to? But the cost of HS2 spread over many years so you are comparing apples with pears or more technically mixing up stocks and flows.
707
25/02/2021 17:59:14 3 0
bbc
Alarmingly this person thinks the national debt is 400 billion ..... The Tories put 1.2 trillion on it in the 10 years BEFORE covid ...... Don't worry ....they told you it wasn't going up because they starved the councils of money for services .....turns out they lied
709
25/02/2021 18:00:18 1 0
bbc
No, £110Bn is 25% of the Covid bill. Our national debt is about 90% GDP if I remember, somewhat higher than that ($2800 Bn according to Google in 2019, probably about the same now)!
891
25/02/2021 19:13:29 0 1
bbc
It won’t be the rail minister’s decision ultimately. Business will decide.

Barclays, JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs have already spoken out about getting teams back to the office.

The “new normal” may be a bit more normal than many expect
965
25/02/2021 19:51:58 0 0
bbc
Hate to depress you further but the current national debt is 2000+ billion. Still who’s counting.
Guv
25/02/2021 23:10:30 0 0
bbc
No it's not. Check again.
26/02/2021 10:02:16 0 0
bbc
Whilst the case now for HS2 is dubious i do love how people comment as if oh just use the money elsewhere. There are legal long term contracts signed up to 20k engineering jobs and supply loops mostly all UK origin companies and staff just cancel it and use money elsewhere? yes after 20-30bil the UKG would be sued for contract breach.
20
25/02/2021 15:34:19 59 25
bbc
Nationalise them please, this private business thing does not help the country
60
25/02/2021 15:41:16 6 1
bbc
At least they are heading to management only contracts which is a good compromise. The Government already control the timetables in the existing now suspended franchise deals and even stipulate the trains and number of carriages to be used
33
25/02/2021 15:35:55 226 49
bbc
Many people can't afford to use rail travel because of the repeated above inflation fare increases imposed by the Tories. It's far cheaper to use a car - especially if there's more than one person travelling, and there's a much better chance of getting home again.
61
25/02/2021 15:41:16 22 2
bbc
If there are more than 2 of you & you're too old for a young person's railcard & too young for an old person's railcard, it's actually cheaper to travel by taxi, especially if you'd have a taxi journey at either end anyway. Plus you never have to carry your own bags. Phone your local taxi company for a quote, it won't be meter rates.
400
25/02/2021 16:42:21 5 1
bbc
Spot on. I used to fly to Newcastle from Southampton. Half the price, far more comfortable and a fraction of the time taken.
9
25/02/2021 15:32:23 9 5
bbc
Not a surprise. In a time of pandemic who wants to travel on crwded public transport. It means that encouraging people to use public transport may not be very successful.
62
25/02/2021 15:41:17 3 3
bbc
That’s true now, and probably for the next 6 months. However once the pandemic is over and fades into memory public transport usage will bounce back.
63
25/02/2021 15:41:37 11 6
bbc
Buses will also see less commuter use. The problem is public transport is given as an excuse to build high density housing without parking or road infrastructure on green field sites. I bet the planners keep building their inaccessible ghettos while the roads clog up even more.
44
25/02/2021 15:38:31 15 21
bbc
If there will be fewer trains then we don't need as many union-luvvie drivers on 80k a year for driving a glorified bus on tracks. Of course they will strike once redundancies are announced though and we will all suffer. That's the problem with unions
64
mat
25/02/2021 15:41:37 5 2
bbc
Yeah those nasty unions...sticking up for peoples rights. I expect you would prefer bringing back the poor houses....typical Tory!
12
25/02/2021 15:33:10 282 89
bbc
More evidence that HS2 isn't needed! Scrap it and protect the environment and spend the money on what is needed - a green recovery.
65
25/02/2021 15:42:07 5 3
bbc
Protect the environment! Wait for the current infrastructure to all apart with the resulting rolling repairs forcing people back to cars! Foolish
392
25/02/2021 16:40:29 12 1
bbc
For the vast majority of people who live outside big cities and far from a mainline railway station cars are likely to remain the most convenient, cost effective and reliable form of transport
Particularly when less expensive electric cars and the necessary recharging network become a reality
552
25/02/2021 17:07:46 1 1
bbc
but by then they will be electric cars.
20
25/02/2021 15:34:19 59 25
bbc
Nationalise them please, this private business thing does not help the country
66
25/02/2021 15:42:16 9 5
bbc
I don't agree with the franchise system - there is no competition if you want to go from A to B

However, the profit element is about 2% - so if you think a nationalised industry will be as efficient, fares will drop by up to 2%. If less efficient, fares will go up. This noise that fare rises are due to massive profits is nonsense

Fares are high as little subsidy from gvt unlike other countries
3
25/02/2021 15:31:07 1219 18
bbc
Hands up if you think services will reduce but season tickets will still go up each year. *hand up*
67
25/02/2021 15:42:22 460 52
bbc
Too many companies using covid as an excuse to offer a poorer service. Look at couriers, they pretty much just chuck your parcel at your door now, and use 'safety' as an excuse.
But at least these couriers are getting parcels to customers on time unlike the Royal Mail which is allowing parcels and letters to pile up at sorting offices...unless you pay for Special Delivery. Removed
Even Royal Mail 1st class signed for is signed by the postie now and left Removed
363
25/02/2021 16:34:03 10 1
bbc
Hermes were ahead of the curve on that one.
431
25/02/2021 16:49:07 1 6
bbc
Its the GOVERNMENT that takes the fare income though!

Companies get paid a flat fee by the GOVERNMENT owned railway REGARDLESS of good their service is - so there is NO REWARD to companies.
609
25/02/2021 17:31:02 0 0
bbc
Quite a good idea really. do you want to shake their hands or invite them in for a cup of tea?
821
25/02/2021 18:43:12 2 0
bbc
I'm in favour of HS2 but in light of today's announcement how does it make sense?

The Tories have recently cut rail investment, which is really why this Charlie is saying we need fewer trains.

The Tories are investing in HS2 but cutting back on rail projects elsewhere, so how does it make sense?
68
25/02/2021 15:42:25 11 9
bbc
Too expensive, slow, dirty, totally unreliable, and overcrowded - why would anyone want to use the train - people only use it when there is no alternative
85
25/02/2021 15:45:12 1 4
bbc
Yes, quick short journeys to a city centre.
122
25/02/2021 15:49:44 0 1
bbc
Try it again - in many places things have changed in the last fifty years...
69
25/02/2021 15:42:45 5 22
bbc
Turn train lines in to cycling paths.
78
25/02/2021 15:44:42 1 4
bbc
Can elderly people cycle?
83
25/02/2021 15:44:59 0 1
bbc
Turn cycle paths into railway lines - much more effective over longer distances.
107
25/02/2021 15:48:33 1 1
bbc
Drawing my fishing rod back in.
141
25/02/2021 15:52:28 0 0
bbc
More of the automated bus like around Cambridge. Bike lanes certainly welcome. Tired of dicing with death on the roads. Bad drivers and pot holes.
70
25/02/2021 15:42:59 10 6
bbc
Why don't we all just accept and embrace this new normal. Slower pace of life and family orientated. Get our parents back out and hugged and just understand we were all heading towards a cliff with a big drop before the pandemic , society was screwed . Since then we've managed to witness the collapse of the USA , environmental issues being highlighted, fragility of human life, covid is the start
71
25/02/2021 15:43:12 8 3
bbc
Rail services in Wales have been renationalised and working much better.
80
25/02/2021 15:44:55 4 11
bbc
Wales will hopefully leave us. Like Scotland.
44
25/02/2021 15:38:31 15 21
bbc
If there will be fewer trains then we don't need as many union-luvvie drivers on 80k a year for driving a glorified bus on tracks. Of course they will strike once redundancies are announced though and we will all suffer. That's the problem with unions
72
25/02/2021 15:43:14 4 1
bbc
have you ever visited the planet earth?
44
25/02/2021 15:38:31 15 21
bbc
If there will be fewer trains then we don't need as many union-luvvie drivers on 80k a year for driving a glorified bus on tracks. Of course they will strike once redundancies are announced though and we will all suffer. That's the problem with unions
73
25/02/2021 15:43:46 7 2
bbc
If it hadn't been for trade unions in years gone by, you wouldn't be in the privileged position of being able to sit and slag them off on your computer. I, for one, am proud of the achievements of my grandfather and his colleagues in obtaining so many rights for us in the face of determined opposition. Feel ashamed.
162
25/02/2021 15:55:17 1 0
bbc
The unions were good once, but just like all authorities the power goes to there heads & then they start to abuse there power, I have been on the receiving end of this as a union member my self in the past trying to get help from the so called great unions & yet they refused to help & made there excuses! This is why people are now cynical about unions just like they are about governments ect.
7
25/02/2021 15:31:38 785 88
bbc
So why do we need HS2?
74
25/02/2021 15:43:50 66 74
bbc
Because once the pandemic is over the lines going North out of London particularly the West Coast line have no capacity. HS2 frees up additional capacity and reduces delays on other lines caused by bottlenecks in the existing network.
300
25/02/2021 16:22:06 2 3
bbc
Absolutely
490
25/02/2021 17:03:20 13 4
bbc
. .....in order to let Londoners drive up house prices further and further away.
13
25/02/2021 15:33:38 4 4
bbc
10% fewer drivers then?
75
25/02/2021 15:43:53 3 1
bbc
With the number of drivers close to retirement & to ensure trains don't get cancelled due to lack of a driver the numbers need to be kept high. Tight rotas already cause problems if there are delays on incoming services
41
25/02/2021 15:38:04 141 42
bbc
So HS2's main argument was that it provided capacity. How long do we have to persist with throwing good money after bad? Sunk cost fallacy
76
25/02/2021 15:43:58 9 3
bbc
That we need extra capacity is not in doubt but does it need to be high speed? Trains running at up to 130 mph can negotiate curves and gradients. There is also an urgent need to take freight off the roads if only for environmental reasons.
403
25/02/2021 16:43:10 3 3
bbc
Making it not-high-speed would only have saved about 10% on costs iirc.
7
25/02/2021 15:31:38 785 88
bbc
So why do we need HS2?
77
25/02/2021 15:44:24 56 50
bbc
Because of expected huge growth in railfreight because of online shopping growth. More container boxes need to be transported from more distribution centres and the current line can’t add any more. That’s why.
198
25/02/2021 16:01:11 17 7
bbc
Rail-freight does come in to London Euston. It's needed from sea and ports and air ports. We don't need more people to be able to travel in London, which will recover economically first - we need better connectivity outside of London.
442
25/02/2021 16:51:30 1 2
bbc
At high speed?
69
25/02/2021 15:42:45 5 22
bbc
Turn train lines in to cycling paths.
78
25/02/2021 15:44:42 1 4
bbc
Can elderly people cycle?
110
25/02/2021 15:48:43 1 1
bbc
Yes
116
25/02/2021 15:48:55 1 1
bbc
I’m 78, and YES THEY CAN!
79
25/02/2021 15:44:43 5 7
bbc
HS2 cannot continue in its current form. It needs to be hauled back in expense and scope to connecting better the Midlands and North. The economic recovery will be London centric anyway and HS2 was setting up for further talent drain from the regions to London. If the opposition do anything, it must be to re-focus this ridiculous project and make it a manifesto pledge for the next election.
71
25/02/2021 15:43:12 8 3
bbc
Rail services in Wales have been renationalised and working much better.
80
25/02/2021 15:44:55 4 11
bbc
Wales will hopefully leave us. Like Scotland.
23
kh
25/02/2021 15:31:38 148 58
bbc
By the time HS2 is complete everybody else will be using hyperloop tracks.
81
25/02/2021 15:44:55 14 6
bbc
Been at Uncle Elon's Kool-Aid again, have you?
19
Bob
25/02/2021 15:34:14 201 611
bbc
Because HS2 is about speed and reliability as much as it is expanding capacity.
82
25/02/2021 15:44:59 71 31
bbc
Speedily and reliably providing a service that no-one wants or needs and will want and need even less by the time the thing finally wheezes into action. This is, quite literally, no way to run a railroad.
69
25/02/2021 15:42:45 5 22
bbc
Turn train lines in to cycling paths.
83
25/02/2021 15:44:59 0 1
bbc
Turn cycle paths into railway lines - much more effective over longer distances.
15
25/02/2021 15:33:50 119 39
bbc
Inevitable. How anyone can justify HS2 is beyond me. What a criminal waste of money. Anyone can see that investing in digital infrastructure is the obvious choice
84
25/02/2021 15:44:59 89 29
bbc
Boris won't scrap it because it will make him look like a mug. Vanity project is all it is.
196
25/02/2021 16:01:03 8 2
bbc
You do know the project was conceived and initiated under Labour though dont you? Which "mug" should we ultimately blame and whose vanity we remember remains to be seem though...
652
25/02/2021 17:42:06 4 1
bbc
About time someone told him he already looks like a mug then. Some of us knew that long before he promised to 'get Britain done'.
787
25/02/2021 18:30:36 4 1
bbc
the clown already looks like a massive idiot by his own hand; surely he's no longer bothered about what people think of him
25/02/2021 21:49:51 1 0
bbc
Really, he should do it now no one will spot another U turn
68
25/02/2021 15:42:25 11 9
bbc
Too expensive, slow, dirty, totally unreliable, and overcrowded - why would anyone want to use the train - people only use it when there is no alternative
85
25/02/2021 15:45:12 1 4
bbc
Yes, quick short journeys to a city centre.
31
25/02/2021 15:35:43 165 12
bbc
The pandemic timetable has run with 90%+ punctuality. Trying to cram in as many trains as possible simply doesn't work. Longer trains running slightly less often (every 15 mins, instead of every 10, for example) means capacity is maintained, but reliability is improved. It really is a "no-brainer".
86
25/02/2021 15:45:26 169 7
bbc
Yes but its not as simplistic as every 15 mins instead of 10, anyone can cope with that, its worse when you say every 2 hours instead of every hour.... or maybe a twice daily service instead of the 5 times a day service. Then it affects you...
138
25/02/2021 15:52:07 13 2
bbc
Services which run every hour are not clogging up the Network. Its little trains running every few minutes which is the problem, filling every bit of "white space" on the graph.
25/02/2021 21:37:26 0 0
bbc
Exactly
87
25/02/2021 15:45:38 8 6
bbc
Which is exactly why HS2 needs to be scrapped. £106 billion for an environmentally devastating project which will not even get full use. As a comparison, the Perseverence rover to Mars only cost $2.7 billion. The Taxpayers Alliance is against HS2, the Woodland Trust is against HS2. It is estimated that more carbon will be used in building HS2 than it will save. Scandalous.
154
25/02/2021 15:54:45 0 3
bbc
It will now cost more to scrap HS2 than to build it and much of the environmental damage has been done - so let us reap the benefits. Not surprising that the TA is agianst spending any money any time or that the Woodland Tust cares more about nimbys than about the planet.
43
25/02/2021 15:38:27 24 12
bbc
So fewer trains must mean fewer train drivers & staff involved in the whole train service....
Or are the unions going to insist on the same staffing levels?....

If so, no wonder the fares keep rising at exorbitant prices & people either don't bother or invest in a car...
88
25/02/2021 15:45:38 21 2
bbc
An anytime return Birmingham-London ticket costs £120 (I just checked). I am simply NOT paying that, when I can drive there and back for £75 less.
221
Jim
25/02/2021 16:05:50 2 0
bbc
And think how much cheaper if it were a family / group of four travelling!
281
25/02/2021 16:19:00 0 0
bbc
£120 is the mid-price option (Chiltern Railways). Avanti West Coast will relieve you of £184 (or £258 for First Class) for the same journey.

Yet if you start from London and head to Birmingham at peak time, Chiltern will charge you £51.50 Return (assuming you're coming back off-peak), whereas Avanti will still charge you £184!
510
25/02/2021 17:07:34 0 0
bbc
Trainsplit has options for travel tomorrow with advance tickets for £29.
513
25/02/2021 17:07:50 0 0
bbc
Subsided to the hilt. Pay the TRUE cost , as rail users have to and then your tune may change.
664
25/02/2021 17:45:55 0 2
bbc
But tickets regularly available for as little as £10 or less. If you insist on travelling at peak times...
25/02/2021 22:21:20 0 0
bbc
There are reasons why they're pushing to outlaw cars...
89
25/02/2021 15:45:45 6 5
bbc
Rail services pre-pandemic were atrocious, with packed trains and poor service times. Taking trains off the lines because there are fewer commuters means those who rely on trains will have exactly the same problem.

Re-nationalisation is long overdue.
43
25/02/2021 15:38:27 24 12
bbc
So fewer trains must mean fewer train drivers & staff involved in the whole train service....
Or are the unions going to insist on the same staffing levels?....

If so, no wonder the fares keep rising at exorbitant prices & people either don't bother or invest in a car...
90
25/02/2021 15:45:55 5 6
bbc
Yep, it's the drivers fault that trains are so expensive and the service is poor. Nothing to do with shareholders creaming off profits which should be reinvested into improving the service. Another of the "successes" of the witch Thatcher and her cronies.
11
25/02/2021 15:33:07 4 3
bbc
"Get used to fewer trains, says rail body".

Tragically yet another truism from the EBC.

When it rains the ground gets wet. But nobody needs to say that.

More people will working from home and not using trains.
91
25/02/2021 15:46:04 2 1
bbc
Headline writers love to wind the public up to justified their existence. A headline "Train services to match number of travellers " does not have the same ring!
92
25/02/2021 15:46:13 6 5
bbc
Heathrow T3 ,Hs2 and numerous road building projects can now be shelved. Less traffic now more working at home and this will continue to some extent.
93
25/02/2021 15:46:16 15 8
bbc
A reduction in commuters does not equal a reduction in trains... it means a reduction in overcrowding!

HS2 is needed, because that's inter-city and we need faster and better connections between our major industrial centres otherwise kiss goodbye to any kind of Brexit success.

Joined up thinking is needed
129
25/02/2021 15:50:40 8 6
bbc
I've got news for you, it DOES mean a reduction in trains and it DOES mean overcrowding continues.
Next time you get a chance for someone who promises to nationalise the trains, vote for them!
135
Pip
25/02/2021 15:51:12 3 2
bbc
I think we've already kissed goodbye to any Brexit success..........?
161
25/02/2021 15:55:17 1 1
bbc
HS2 was never more than a hyped PPP (Pointless Political Project) it's overall economic benefits have been shown to be negligible at best, and a disaster for the environment for certain. No, the only REAL beneficiaries are the big companies involved in building it with their ever increasing budgets paid for by the tax-payer!
228
25/02/2021 16:06:34 2 0
bbc
Less commuting passengers per train= less revenue = price increases- time will tell
683
25/02/2021 17:49:34 1 0
bbc
We still have 'major industrial centres'? Brexit will finally kill what's left of our industry - or are you one of those people who think Britain will flourish as a nation of spoon whittlers making stuff for local people?
12
25/02/2021 15:33:10 282 89
bbc
More evidence that HS2 isn't needed! Scrap it and protect the environment and spend the money on what is needed - a green recovery.
94
25/02/2021 15:46:22 14 6
bbc
The pandemic will end and then what. Current rail network hasn’t got the capacity for a country of 70m. If you don’t improve the rail network people will travel by road or air, which is actually worse for the environment
95
25/02/2021 15:46:22 10 7
bbc
A national disgrace. The money being pumped in the HS2 project while the rest of the network suffers. Really need some new thinking in the transport Department because the current clowns are just looking after their friends. Sound familiar?
119
25/02/2021 15:49:29 4 4
bbc
Don't blame me, I voted for Corbyn.
96
25/02/2021 15:39:10 3 2
bbc
Won't affect me. I'm already "used to" exorbitant fares way beyond my means.
97
25/02/2021 15:47:13 2 3
bbc
Turn cycling in to Training
98
25/02/2021 15:47:34 4 2
bbc
We've had the Black death, Cholera, Flu, Smallpox, Polio, TB etc but life carried on. Too many people trying to twist this for their own agenda. Keep calm and carry on.
7
25/02/2021 15:31:38 785 88
bbc
So why do we need HS2?
99
25/02/2021 15:47:48 33 72
bbc
For better inter-city connections between our major industrial centres!
529
25/02/2021 17:12:50 4 1
bbc
So why not do that then? HS2 is to all about reducing the commute time between London & Birmingham. Most UK ind. cities are bypassed even with the mythical later phases. Why not improve east west routes from say Lpool-Man-Leeds-Sheff-Hull? Still waiting for electrification of E Coast main line North of Edinburgh. Still relying on 125s built in the 70s on (fatally) crumbling lines and bridges.
100
25/02/2021 15:47:58 3 2
bbc
Trains were generally overcrowded during commuter times, fewer passengers should mean everyone gets the seat they should always have been entitled to, not fewer train so people can carry on standing.