Serco: Test-and-trace firm's boss defends scheme
25/02/2021
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The boss of outsourcer Serco says there are now as many people being tested per week as vaccinated.
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WhoamI
25/02/2021 10:29:53
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13
bbc
Well the T&T system has grounded Captain Hindsight on multiple occasions to the extent that even he does not knock it now...
Will the real Capt. Hindsight please reveal himself? It’s the short fat one with the messy hair over there, always two steps behind every other UK leader.
"but added that a system of its kind had "never been done before in the UK"."
Really?
Could he explain this?
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notifiable-diseases-and-causative-organisms-how-to-report
All of these diseases is contact traced, someone in every GP surgery has to do this, the fact that nearly a year after being awarded the contract he doesn't know this proves what a shambles this is.
Really?
Could he explain this?
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notifiable-diseases-and-causative-organisms-how-to-report
All of these diseases is contact traced, someone in every GP surgery has to do this, the fact that nearly a year after being awarded the contract he doesn't know this proves what a shambles this is.
I think he is referring to the system being required to deal with tens of thousand of reports and contacts every day as opposed to the handful of instances that the system you highlight is dealing with. Apples and oranges!
This comment fundamentally typifies how people do not understand what NHS Test and Trace is.
It encompasses every aspect of testing, and tracing.
So yes, you're right to highlight that tracing is not a new concept to the UK, but setting up 100s of testing sites, developing an app, and tracing on such a large scale is something unseen.
It encompasses every aspect of testing, and tracing.
So yes, you're right to highlight that tracing is not a new concept to the UK, but setting up 100s of testing sites, developing an app, and tracing on such a large scale is something unseen.
Sexual health clinics and environmental health departments do this day in day out all year round. All the expertise was there, but it was largely ignored.
Vaccination scheme goes from zero to two and a half million a week in two months, Serco's track and trace takes nearly a year - and they still think it's a success?
The two issues are completely different, require different systems and logistics and so your comparison between the two is not really valid.
The vaccine rollout has been excellent but then they had months and months to prepare for it. Track and trace did not have that planning time and so it had to evolve in real time as issues appeared. Now it has done so, it is working well.
The vaccine rollout has been excellent but then they had months and months to prepare for it. Track and trace did not have that planning time and so it had to evolve in real time as issues appeared. Now it has done so, it is working well.
Tories can't accept when they've done something wrong or stupid, sure just look at brexit
comparing pears and apples is not the way to go.
22 billion and counting; there’s simply no defending that.
There are some who should be prosecuted and jailed.
There are some who should be prosecuted and jailed.
£22 billion is the budget, not spend.
As of October only £4 billion of the £22 billion budget had been spent.
As of October only £4 billion of the £22 billion budget had been spent.
"but added that a system of its kind had "never been done before in the UK"."
Really?
Could he explain this?
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notifiable-diseases-and-causative-organisms-how-to-report
All of these diseases is contact traced, someone in every GP surgery has to do this, the fact that nearly a year after being awarded the contract he doesn't know this proves what a shambles this is.
Really?
Could he explain this?
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notifiable-diseases-and-causative-organisms-how-to-report
All of these diseases is contact traced, someone in every GP surgery has to do this, the fact that nearly a year after being awarded the contract he doesn't know this proves what a shambles this is.
Googled Rupert to check whether related to "Two Dinners" - but then amazed just how well connected Rupe is: grandson of Winston Churchill, nephew of Defence Secretary Duncan Sandys and great-nephew of Baron Baden-Powell.
See Children - its not what you know its who you know that matters. Put that on the Summer School catch-up curriculum!
See Children - its not what you know its who you know that matters. Put that on the Summer School catch-up curriculum!
Ah so all our personal successes are down to being a great nephew of someone most of us have never known. Our own personal abilities have nothing to do with it. I suspect you could just as easily find many descendants/relatives from those people that lead very ordinary lives. Why is that then?
You will find similar things like this in all government run institutions....including the BBC.
Nice... keep googling and your find there all in it together! "HandCock" signing a millions pounds contract with his village pub landlord for medicine phials who had no expertise is as transparent as clingfilm! Where has all the investigative journalism gone. Anyone noticed??
The amount spent on our Test & Trace programme is completely unacceptable.
However, with some hindsight, I think this programme only works in remote countries who can get a grip early on, as Covid is just too infectious when endemic.
Proof of this is Germany had excellent T&T early on, but then from the autumn Covid was just too much (through no fault of theirs) and they admitted defeat.
However, with some hindsight, I think this programme only works in remote countries who can get a grip early on, as Covid is just too infectious when endemic.
Proof of this is Germany had excellent T&T early on, but then from the autumn Covid was just too much (through no fault of theirs) and they admitted defeat.
Which is exactly what they said at the beginning. In the beginning we did extensive contact tracing - just as we do for any significant infectious disease. But as was highlighted in a very early briefing, when you have a high number of cases the effect of the tracing is minimal compared to other things you can do - and requires huge amounts of people to operate.
The German system cost a fraction of what ours did and was open source so we could have used theirs for free. Instead we went with our own system that was given to a company run by a tory member of the house of lords who also happens to be wife of a tory MP....
reeks to me
reeks to me
How come the Japanese system worked then?
In Germany, Merkel wanted to lock down after the summer but was prevented from doing so by the right who wanted to protect business.
In Germany, Merkel wanted to lock down after the summer but was prevented from doing so by the right who wanted to protect business.
It's a pity the test & trace system wasn't put into the hands of the NHS who have made such a wonderful job of the vaccination programme.
It would have saved us £ BILLIONS!!
It would have saved us £ BILLIONS!!
only works in remote countries. Rubbish! Germany have not admitted defeat. I will bet Germany will come out just fine in the long run.
"but added that a system of its kind had "never been done before in the UK"."
Really?
Could he explain this?
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notifiable-diseases-and-causative-organisms-how-to-report
All of these diseases is contact traced, someone in every GP surgery has to do this, the fact that nearly a year after being awarded the contract he doesn't know this proves what a shambles this is.
Really?
Could he explain this?
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notifiable-diseases-and-causative-organisms-how-to-report
All of these diseases is contact traced, someone in every GP surgery has to do this, the fact that nearly a year after being awarded the contract he doesn't know this proves what a shambles this is.
This comment fundamentally typifies how people do not understand what NHS Test and Trace is.
It encompasses every aspect of testing, and tracing.
So yes, you're right to highlight that tracing is not a new concept to the UK, but setting up 100s of testing sites, developing an app, and tracing on such a large scale is something unseen.
It encompasses every aspect of testing, and tracing.
So yes, you're right to highlight that tracing is not a new concept to the UK, but setting up 100s of testing sites, developing an app, and tracing on such a large scale is something unseen.
My point isn't that the scale of the problem was unprecedented it's that Scotland (SNP), Wales (Labour) and Cumbria (Conservative) all did their own Test & Trace utilising their local expertise and outperformed Serco.
Serco could have utilised the same local expertise nationally (in fact they're now doing so by passing contacts to Councils) but the problem is the perception "Business Knows Best".
Serco could have utilised the same local expertise nationally (in fact they're now doing so by passing contacts to Councils) but the problem is the perception "Business Knows Best".
The UK does more Covid-19 tests than any other European country.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1028731/covid19-tests-select-countries-worldwide/
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1028731/covid19-tests-select-countries-worldwide/
Some people just hate facts......they are political and nothing to do with reality.
The volume of tests matters little. What you do with the results is important. Our test and trace failed to contact 15-27% of positive cases and 9-40% of their close contacts (depending on the time period). Probably not the greatest numbers. For sure not worth 22 billion. Test and trace was politicized, and "tests performed" was the easy readout the government could use as a smokescreen.
The amount spent on our Test & Trace programme is completely unacceptable.
However, with some hindsight, I think this programme only works in remote countries who can get a grip early on, as Covid is just too infectious when endemic.
Proof of this is Germany had excellent T&T early on, but then from the autumn Covid was just too much (through no fault of theirs) and they admitted defeat.
However, with some hindsight, I think this programme only works in remote countries who can get a grip early on, as Covid is just too infectious when endemic.
Proof of this is Germany had excellent T&T early on, but then from the autumn Covid was just too much (through no fault of theirs) and they admitted defeat.
Which is exactly what they said at the beginning. In the beginning we did extensive contact tracing - just as we do for any significant infectious disease. But as was highlighted in a very early briefing, when you have a high number of cases the effect of the tracing is minimal compared to other things you can do - and requires huge amounts of people to operate.
Their shareholders will be praying for a variant of the virus that is resistant to the vaccination so they can make even more profit...disgusting
Vaccination scheme goes from zero to two and a half million a week in two months, Serco's track and trace takes nearly a year - and they still think it's a success?
The two issues are completely different, require different systems and logistics and so your comparison between the two is not really valid.
The vaccine rollout has been excellent but then they had months and months to prepare for it. Track and trace did not have that planning time and so it had to evolve in real time as issues appeared. Now it has done so, it is working well.
The vaccine rollout has been excellent but then they had months and months to prepare for it. Track and trace did not have that planning time and so it had to evolve in real time as issues appeared. Now it has done so, it is working well.
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize my comparison had to be valid. I thought this was HYS, where anyone can spout tubthumping nonsense in a pointless quest for fleeting popularity.
When I contacted Covid. I felt mildly hot with a cough. Contacted NHS and got my test kit the next day. Sent it back same day to Glasgow. I got the poss result the following day by text.
After that contact tracing never stopped. And the system worked better than I thought possible. Just my experience.
Let’s hope all comments are based on experience and not some political point scoring.
After that contact tracing never stopped. And the system worked better than I thought possible. Just my experience.
Let’s hope all comments are based on experience and not some political point scoring.
That funny, the rest of the country felt that it was totally cr*p and just a money making scam for Dido.
Why are so many government contracts so bad?
It seems they are so badly written. Problems like too high costs, lack of phased payments based on success and lack of failure clauses are down to the senior civil servants not doing their jobs properly. They are meant to be the experts.
It seems they are so badly written. Problems like too high costs, lack of phased payments based on success and lack of failure clauses are down to the senior civil servants not doing their jobs properly. They are meant to be the experts.
Dido Harding and Serco tasked to deliver something.....
??
????????????
Presumably Failing Grayling and Gavin Williamson weren't available to complete the team!
??
????????????
Presumably Failing Grayling and Gavin Williamson weren't available to complete the team!
Wrong strategy!
But Gov. keep pushing it as they have wasted so much money in test and trace.
Less Testing more Vaccinating please.
I don't want or need another test, I want a Vaccine.
But Gov. keep pushing it as they have wasted so much money in test and trace.
Less Testing more Vaccinating please.
I don't want or need another test, I want a Vaccine.
Googled Rupert to check whether related to "Two Dinners" - but then amazed just how well connected Rupe is: grandson of Winston Churchill, nephew of Defence Secretary Duncan Sandys and great-nephew of Baron Baden-Powell.
See Children - its not what you know its who you know that matters. Put that on the Summer School catch-up curriculum!
See Children - its not what you know its who you know that matters. Put that on the Summer School catch-up curriculum!
When you made that reply, why didn't you refer to Soames' connection to the Tory Party?
It doesn't surprise that you defend the Tories come what may.
It doesn't surprise that you defend the Tories come what may.
TheHonSec.....you've never heard of Winston Churchill or the Defence Secretary?
Another example of Tory party nepotism / cronyism. £Billions worth of Government contracts have been signed to Tory Party donors and supporters without any Public scrutiny.
We were promised a World Beating Test & Trace System, what we got was Dido Harding and an Excel Spreadsheet.
We were promised a World Beating Test & Trace System, what we got was Dido Harding and an Excel Spreadsheet.
Windfall tax for Serco (Incompetence tax?) and for all the chums.
Wasn't it an old excel spreadsheet too, so it couldn't hold nearly as much data as the spreadsheets in the current version of excel? An somehow their IT resource failed to realise this. Mindboggling given that there are probably at least a million people in the UK who would have realised it.
The obsolete Excel spreadsheet was deployed by IT numpties within the NHS, nothing to do with the bits Dido Harding was responsible for.
We also got Kate Bingham's Vaccine Taskforce which genuinely has been World Beating.
We also got Kate Bingham's Vaccine Taskforce which genuinely has been World Beating.
TT&I has been and is a success but not perfect.
Consider a thought experiment, that there are no PCR tests:
Doctors would recommend everybody and their family with an identified symptom to isolate for 10 to 14 days; instead after 24 to 48 hours between 98% and 85% of the tested are given the all clear; Saving, say, 8 working days.
At median wages, about £800. Government gets about £250 of this.
Consider a thought experiment, that there are no PCR tests:
Doctors would recommend everybody and their family with an identified symptom to isolate for 10 to 14 days; instead after 24 to 48 hours between 98% and 85% of the tested are given the all clear; Saving, say, 8 working days.
At median wages, about £800. Government gets about £250 of this.
Plus the uninfected and family only lose up 48hrs of their life benefitting their personal mental health
TT&I has been a disaster.
Remember the World Beating App promise...... due 8 months ago.
Embarrassing.
Even Boris admits it's still poor.
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/what-happened-world-beating-test-trace-system-covid-pandemic-england-822767
Remember the World Beating App promise...... due 8 months ago.
Embarrassing.
Even Boris admits it's still poor.
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/what-happened-world-beating-test-trace-system-covid-pandemic-england-822767
Their shareholders will be praying for a variant of the virus that is resistant to the vaccination so they can make even more profit...disgusting
The two issues are completely different, require different systems and logistics and so your comparison between the two is not really valid.
The vaccine rollout has been excellent but then they had months and months to prepare for it. Track and trace did not have that planning time and so it had to evolve in real time as issues appeared. Now it has done so, it is working well.
The vaccine rollout has been excellent but then they had months and months to prepare for it. Track and trace did not have that planning time and so it had to evolve in real time as issues appeared. Now it has done so, it is working well.
and get called out when they do. Your comparison is a complete logical fallacy.
TT&I has been and is a success but not perfect.
Consider a thought experiment, that there are no PCR tests:
Doctors would recommend everybody and their family with an identified symptom to isolate for 10 to 14 days; instead after 24 to 48 hours between 98% and 85% of the tested are given the all clear; Saving, say, 8 working days.
At median wages, about £800. Government gets about £250 of this.
Consider a thought experiment, that there are no PCR tests:
Doctors would recommend everybody and their family with an identified symptom to isolate for 10 to 14 days; instead after 24 to 48 hours between 98% and 85% of the tested are given the all clear; Saving, say, 8 working days.
At median wages, about £800. Government gets about £250 of this.
This comment fundamentally typifies how people do not understand what NHS Test and Trace is.
It encompasses every aspect of testing, and tracing.
So yes, you're right to highlight that tracing is not a new concept to the UK, but setting up 100s of testing sites, developing an app, and tracing on such a large scale is something unseen.
It encompasses every aspect of testing, and tracing.
So yes, you're right to highlight that tracing is not a new concept to the UK, but setting up 100s of testing sites, developing an app, and tracing on such a large scale is something unseen.
My point isn't that the scale of the problem was unprecedented it's that Scotland (SNP), Wales (Labour) and Cumbria (Conservative) all did their own Test & Trace utilising their local expertise and outperformed Serco.
Serco could have utilised the same local expertise nationally (in fact they're now doing so by passing contacts to Councils) but the problem is the perception "Business Knows Best".
Serco could have utilised the same local expertise nationally (in fact they're now doing so by passing contacts to Councils) but the problem is the perception "Business Knows Best".
That's because Serco was employed to set up call centres. The local tracing used people on the ground.
You will always have more success door-stopping people than trying to phone them up where they will ignore the call or hang up etc.
The lower figure in contacting the person was not through the lack of trying.
You will always have more success door-stopping people than trying to phone them up where they will ignore the call or hang up etc.
The lower figure in contacting the person was not through the lack of trying.
You always know if a government scheme is going well because the media stop reporting on the things that are going wrong.
Feb 2020 we had a total capacity to carry out 2,000 tests a day. Yesterday we had the capacity to carry out 908,000!!!
Tracing is working as well as any system can when you have 10,000 new cases reported every day, and is clearly improving.
I say well done to all involved!
Feb 2020 we had a total capacity to carry out 2,000 tests a day. Yesterday we had the capacity to carry out 908,000!!!
Tracing is working as well as any system can when you have 10,000 new cases reported every day, and is clearly improving.
I say well done to all involved!
Exactly. The media love a bad news story. Mark my words, they are just waiting for the stories of people who fail to get their 2nd jabs in 12 weeks. Bound to be a fair few given that millions are due but they will ignore the millions that do get it and concentrate on the few that don't.
The amount spent on our Test & Trace programme is completely unacceptable.
However, with some hindsight, I think this programme only works in remote countries who can get a grip early on, as Covid is just too infectious when endemic.
Proof of this is Germany had excellent T&T early on, but then from the autumn Covid was just too much (through no fault of theirs) and they admitted defeat.
However, with some hindsight, I think this programme only works in remote countries who can get a grip early on, as Covid is just too infectious when endemic.
Proof of this is Germany had excellent T&T early on, but then from the autumn Covid was just too much (through no fault of theirs) and they admitted defeat.
Vaccination scheme goes from zero to two and a half million a week in two months, Serco's track and trace takes nearly a year - and they still think it's a success?
I don't see anything wrong or stupid about brexit.
SERCO etc get paid no matter how BADLY they perform their "service" and this government rewards the same companies with new contratcs for failure of previous contracts. Capita is another.
That's normal and is usually down to the Civil Servants not understanding how to let contracts that include effective performance clauses. There is a process they go through but they really need private sector expertise working in Govt. to understand how best to negotiate better contracts.
This. Both are pretty poor, performance-wise, and it is by design. My own firm transferred v large numbers of staff to Capita. Staff who delivered excellence. Under Capita, they were explicitly told to aim for satisfactory and nothing better, and resource was scaled back until they couldn't even deliver that.
Small beer in comparison to the £20 billion plus Blair spent dusting up Iraq and Afghanistan.
People still repeating the same old stuff regarding test and trace not working to bash the Govt. The problem with that is that test and trace has been working well for some time now, without it we wouldn't have known the numbers testing positive with hundreds of thousands of tests carried out daily. Without the private sector we would never have the vaccine nor any other medicines or even food.
The Civil Service has no interest in employing people with real world experience of commerce or industry. That is why they have to outsource so much.
It's the same the world over.
It's the same the world over.
No, that’s down to government not being willing to pay for the expert lawyers etc that private industry uses. I’m always puzzled when people say paying more can’t solve a problem but CEOs and contact experts need to be paid the huge amounts decided by the pay panel to do a job...
Mostly it is down to completely bonkers procurement rules that mean the only same few big names are able to compete. Much of that is tied in with the ridiculous bureaucracy that has been woven through all aspects to the Public Sector. The fact the unsuccessful companies can sue for compensation tells you all you need to know. Public Sector procurement is completely broken.
Would this be the private sector expertise that has cost the taxpayer millions in consultancy fees?
Your assuming of course that all civil servants have no experience of working within the private sector many probably have before joining as a job for life in any sector is long gone!!!
Would like to know how this company got the contract. My company but a full digital and organics track and trace system in March 2020. Approached the Gov no reply contacted heads of NHS England no reply? Would have saved thousands of lives and lock down restrictions. So before you start advocating what a good job it is doing it should have been sooner. Save life's Gov moto this delay caused lives
Perhaps your poor English / typing skills contributed towards the problem you outline. Hopefully not but first impressions count and the first impression your post gives is not that good.
Removed
Please show us your app and it's test findings - in particular it's accuracy across platforms etc. It would be good to compare.
Really! So criticising a post's typing and language can get your comment removed. Seems some people just cannot accept criticism, even polite criticism!
Ironic that it had 3 up votes and 1 down vote before being removed so others agreed.
If you want to judge for yourself, go look it up on ihysdb.com. It has every comment ever made by anyone on HYS listed there.
Off to wash my mouth out!
Ironic that it had 3 up votes and 1 down vote before being removed so others agreed.
If you want to judge for yourself, go look it up on ihysdb.com. It has every comment ever made by anyone on HYS listed there.
Off to wash my mouth out!
People still repeating the same old stuff regarding test and trace not working to bash the Govt. The problem with that is that test and trace has been working well for some time now, without it we wouldn't have known the numbers testing positive with hundreds of thousands of tests carried out daily. Without the private sector we would never have the vaccine nor any other medicines or even food.
You always know if a government scheme is going well because the media stop reporting on the things that are going wrong.
Feb 2020 we had a total capacity to carry out 2,000 tests a day. Yesterday we had the capacity to carry out 908,000!!!
Tracing is working as well as any system can when you have 10,000 new cases reported every day, and is clearly improving.
I say well done to all involved!
Feb 2020 we had a total capacity to carry out 2,000 tests a day. Yesterday we had the capacity to carry out 908,000!!!
Tracing is working as well as any system can when you have 10,000 new cases reported every day, and is clearly improving.
I say well done to all involved!
The UK does more Covid-19 tests than any other European country.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1028731/covid19-tests-select-countries-worldwide/
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1028731/covid19-tests-select-countries-worldwide/
Would like to know how this company got the contract. My company but a full digital and organics track and trace system in March 2020. Approached the Gov no reply contacted heads of NHS England no reply? Would have saved thousands of lives and lock down restrictions. So before you start advocating what a good job it is doing it should have been sooner. Save life's Gov moto this delay caused lives
Germanys track and trace system fell apart as soon as infection in rates increased. It's death rate in this wave is far higher than the much applauded first wave effort.
It shows the UK hasnt done too badly given the average health and obesity levels in the UK are worse than Germany.
It shows the UK hasnt done too badly given the average health and obesity levels in the UK are worse than Germany.
Your correct re track & trace within Germany. I have extended family over there & 'word on the street' suggests that it did eventually fail its remit. That said, I don't know what the Gvmt perspective is, probably the same bull as UK Gvmt sends out. Poster 'Wise1' is also correct re infection rates, but maybe German folk are far more disciplined than we are, except for the common obesity problem?
The German death rate is much better given their bigger population
“Test performed” was (wrongfully imo) made a hallmark for good gov performance in the UK. It has never gotten that politized in Germany, though, which allowed them to take a more pragmatic approach. They abandoned mass testing when numbers went up and they entered a lockdown. At that point, mass testing has just very little impact and strict social distancing and quarantine are more effective.
TT&I has been and is a success but not perfect.
Consider a thought experiment, that there are no PCR tests:
Doctors would recommend everybody and their family with an identified symptom to isolate for 10 to 14 days; instead after 24 to 48 hours between 98% and 85% of the tested are given the all clear; Saving, say, 8 working days.
At median wages, about £800. Government gets about £250 of this.
Consider a thought experiment, that there are no PCR tests:
Doctors would recommend everybody and their family with an identified symptom to isolate for 10 to 14 days; instead after 24 to 48 hours between 98% and 85% of the tested are given the all clear; Saving, say, 8 working days.
At median wages, about £800. Government gets about £250 of this.
TT&I has been a disaster.
Remember the World Beating App promise...... due 8 months ago.
Embarrassing.
Even Boris admits it's still poor.
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/what-happened-world-beating-test-trace-system-covid-pandemic-england-822767
Remember the World Beating App promise...... due 8 months ago.
Embarrassing.
Even Boris admits it's still poor.
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/what-happened-world-beating-test-trace-system-covid-pandemic-england-822767
Their shareholders will be praying for a variant of the virus that is resistant to the vaccination so they can make even more profit...disgusting
The German system cost a fraction of what ours did and was open source so we could have used theirs for free. Instead we went with our own system that was given to a company run by a tory member of the house of lords who also happens to be wife of a tory MP....
reeks to me
reeks to me
I didn't say ours wasn't open source. I said Germany's, which was in place before ours, was and therefore would have been free for us to implement immediately but the Government opted against this to give a contract to Dido and so they could collect data centrally.
So why was that exactly?
So why was that exactly?
Our app is also open source. You missed the CR off the beginning of APP.
The UK does more Covid-19 tests than any other European country.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1028731/covid19-tests-select-countries-worldwide/
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1028731/covid19-tests-select-countries-worldwide/
Googled Rupert to check whether related to "Two Dinners" - but then amazed just how well connected Rupe is: grandson of Winston Churchill, nephew of Defence Secretary Duncan Sandys and great-nephew of Baron Baden-Powell.
See Children - its not what you know its who you know that matters. Put that on the Summer School catch-up curriculum!
See Children - its not what you know its who you know that matters. Put that on the Summer School catch-up curriculum!
That's normal and is usually down to the Civil Servants not understanding how to let contracts that include effective performance clauses. There is a process they go through but they really need private sector expertise working in Govt. to understand how best to negotiate better contracts.
My point isn't that the scale of the problem was unprecedented it's that Scotland (SNP), Wales (Labour) and Cumbria (Conservative) all did their own Test & Trace utilising their local expertise and outperformed Serco.
Serco could have utilised the same local expertise nationally (in fact they're now doing so by passing contacts to Councils) but the problem is the perception "Business Knows Best".
Serco could have utilised the same local expertise nationally (in fact they're now doing so by passing contacts to Councils) but the problem is the perception "Business Knows Best".
That's because Serco was employed to set up call centres. The local tracing used people on the ground.
You will always have more success door-stopping people than trying to phone them up where they will ignore the call or hang up etc.
The lower figure in contacting the person was not through the lack of trying.
You will always have more success door-stopping people than trying to phone them up where they will ignore the call or hang up etc.
The lower figure in contacting the person was not through the lack of trying.
I'd like to know how current figures for the percentage of people reached by Test and Trace compare with October's.
Also - how many are contacted within 1 day, 2days, 3 days etc.
Also - how many are contacted within 1 day, 2days, 3 days etc.
Test and Trace has been a shambles, with no best practice learnt from South Korea or other far eastern countries, where it was very clear that you needed local people with feet on the ground to make this work, not someone on a phone. Typical over paid Chief Exec defending the indefensible!
If that is the case the whole of the EU has failed as well ... but you don't mention that. You also fail to mention the very strict lockdowns involved in Korea and if the UK any democratised Western country would adhere to such policies.
"He said there were now as many people being tested per week as vaccinated."
That is because, test and trace has failed so badly, so many people think they may have caught the virus.
If test and trace had worked, it should have reduced the number of people needing tests, as those traced as contacts took action to prevent onward transmission.
That is because, test and trace has failed so badly, so many people think they may have caught the virus.
If test and trace had worked, it should have reduced the number of people needing tests, as those traced as contacts took action to prevent onward transmission.
You always know if a government scheme is going well because the media stop reporting on the things that are going wrong.
Feb 2020 we had a total capacity to carry out 2,000 tests a day. Yesterday we had the capacity to carry out 908,000!!!
Tracing is working as well as any system can when you have 10,000 new cases reported every day, and is clearly improving.
I say well done to all involved!
Feb 2020 we had a total capacity to carry out 2,000 tests a day. Yesterday we had the capacity to carry out 908,000!!!
Tracing is working as well as any system can when you have 10,000 new cases reported every day, and is clearly improving.
I say well done to all involved!
The UK does more Covid-19 tests than any other European country.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1028731/covid19-tests-select-countries-worldwide/
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1028731/covid19-tests-select-countries-worldwide/
"in the week to 7 October, NHS Test and Trace had reached only 62.6%".......
"Local public health teams, who conduct contact tracing for the most complex cases, reached 97.7% of identified contacts in the same period."
---
We have learned what really works. Let's remember this.
"Local public health teams, who conduct contact tracing for the most complex cases, reached 97.7% of identified contacts in the same period."
---
We have learned what really works. Let's remember this.
OK now look at how many people those local teams contacted vs. how many the call centres contacted.
The local cases are cases that involve door-stopping people, or outbreaks in factories etc. That's fundamentally different from ringing people up. You would need a ridiculous amount of people if you wanted to do it all 'on the ground'.
The local cases are cases that involve door-stopping people, or outbreaks in factories etc. That's fundamentally different from ringing people up. You would need a ridiculous amount of people if you wanted to do it all 'on the ground'.
Just reviewed yesterday evening's thread where I repeated media reports that BAME Communities are refusing vaccine & I was not surprised at vitriolic responses. One even wrote that I didn't value BAME who work in NHS. One responder even called me racist! Absolute spite & rubbish! Just to be clear, I'm sick of C-19 & wish EVERYONE good health regardless of colour, creed, culture, race or religion.
Removed
Germanys track and trace system fell apart as soon as infection in rates increased. It's death rate in this wave is far higher than the much applauded first wave effort.
It shows the UK hasnt done too badly given the average health and obesity levels in the UK are worse than Germany.
It shows the UK hasnt done too badly given the average health and obesity levels in the UK are worse than Germany.
You realise that they do not report accurate numbers, I have had irrefutable evidence that they manage their reporting to reflect themselves in a good light.
In total. Not currently. Their infection rate is currently, and has been for a little while now, higher than here.
And that is the point their making. It was good at first, but now it isn't.
And that is the point their making. It was good at first, but now it isn't.
That will be more down to a population that are doing what they are asked to do and stricter enforcement. The restrictions and rules around travel and what is essential would just not be possible in the UK.
Not true and slightly out of context. Feb figures per Worldometers:
* UK average 14k cases per day but falling (yesterday 10k cases)
* Germany average 8k daily cases (trend static but nearly 11k cases yesterday)
* UK average 600k daily tests
* Germany average ~190k tests per day i.e. 1/3rd of the UK figure
* UK average 14k cases per day but falling (yesterday 10k cases)
* Germany average 8k daily cases (trend static but nearly 11k cases yesterday)
* UK average 600k daily tests
* Germany average ~190k tests per day i.e. 1/3rd of the UK figure
Germanys track and trace system fell apart as soon as infection in rates increased. It's death rate in this wave is far higher than the much applauded first wave effort.
It shows the UK hasnt done too badly given the average health and obesity levels in the UK are worse than Germany.
It shows the UK hasnt done too badly given the average health and obesity levels in the UK are worse than Germany.
Test and Trace has been a shambles, with no best practice learnt from South Korea or other far eastern countries, where it was very clear that you needed local people with feet on the ground to make this work, not someone on a phone. Typical over paid Chief Exec defending the indefensible!
Hmm... how about Australia and NZ?! South Korea is classed as a democracy.
Why did the EU need to be mentioned? Most of the major EU nations have done better than us, economically as well, despite us having the benefit of being an island.
Why did the EU need to be mentioned? Most of the major EU nations have done better than us, economically as well, despite us having the benefit of being an island.
...a libertarian "demoncratised Western country" your having a laugh. It's happening here, public freedoms in UK being taken away faster than you can blink.
"in the week to 7 October, NHS Test and Trace had reached only 62.6%".......
"Local public health teams, who conduct contact tracing for the most complex cases, reached 97.7% of identified contacts in the same period."
---
We have learned what really works. Let's remember this.
"Local public health teams, who conduct contact tracing for the most complex cases, reached 97.7% of identified contacts in the same period."
---
We have learned what really works. Let's remember this.
OK now look at how many people those local teams contacted vs. how many the call centres contacted.
The local cases are cases that involve door-stopping people, or outbreaks in factories etc. That's fundamentally different from ringing people up. You would need a ridiculous amount of people if you wanted to do it all 'on the ground'.
The local cases are cases that involve door-stopping people, or outbreaks in factories etc. That's fundamentally different from ringing people up. You would need a ridiculous amount of people if you wanted to do it all 'on the ground'.
That’s why we should’ve only contacted people who were most likely to have been infectious. The system was overloaded due to the testing philosophy and thus the high costs.
They're here Bob in T&T. We have been asking/suggesting for months that we become part of a national T&T/local authority team. But no, we sit in our silos continuing to fail. Trust me, the resource is here; it is just not being managed well.
Another example of Tory party nepotism / cronyism. £Billions worth of Government contracts have been signed to Tory Party donors and supporters without any Public scrutiny.
We were promised a World Beating Test & Trace System, what we got was Dido Harding and an Excel Spreadsheet.
We were promised a World Beating Test & Trace System, what we got was Dido Harding and an Excel Spreadsheet.
Would like to know how this company got the contract. My company but a full digital and organics track and trace system in March 2020. Approached the Gov no reply contacted heads of NHS England no reply? Would have saved thousands of lives and lock down restrictions. So before you start advocating what a good job it is doing it should have been sooner. Save life's Gov moto this delay caused lives
Would like to know how this company got the contract. My company but a full digital and organics track and trace system in March 2020. Approached the Gov no reply contacted heads of NHS England no reply? Would have saved thousands of lives and lock down restrictions. So before you start advocating what a good job it is doing it should have been sooner. Save life's Gov moto this delay caused lives
Really! So criticising a post's typing and language can get your comment removed. Seems some people just cannot accept criticism, even polite criticism!
Ironic that it had 3 up votes and 1 down vote before being removed so others agreed.
If you want to judge for yourself, go look it up on ihysdb.com. It has every comment ever made by anyone on HYS listed there.
Off to wash my mouth out!
Ironic that it had 3 up votes and 1 down vote before being removed so others agreed.
If you want to judge for yourself, go look it up on ihysdb.com. It has every comment ever made by anyone on HYS listed there.
Off to wash my mouth out!
Serco Chief executive Rupert Soames told the BBC: "It (test-and-trace) is now a remarkable success and I acknowledge it has taken quite some time to get there."....Serco is an absolute disgrace and it was awarded the contract based on jobs for the boys to fill the pockets of the fat cats again. Serco has a history of failure including the transportation and management of prisoners.
Can you provide some evidence to your claims ... including the evidence this was an appointment based on jobs for the boys.
You seem to be regurgitating Labour claims which often include individuals you know someone who know someone who know someone ... which means I am probably involved as I know someone who knows someone who knows someone.
You seem to be regurgitating Labour claims which often include individuals you know someone who know someone who know someone ... which means I am probably involved as I know someone who knows someone who knows someone.
Germanys track and trace system fell apart as soon as infection in rates increased. It's death rate in this wave is far higher than the much applauded first wave effort.
It shows the UK hasnt done too badly given the average health and obesity levels in the UK are worse than Germany.
It shows the UK hasnt done too badly given the average health and obesity levels in the UK are worse than Germany.
Your correct re track & trace within Germany. I have extended family over there & 'word on the street' suggests that it did eventually fail its remit. That said, I don't know what the Gvmt perspective is, probably the same bull as UK Gvmt sends out. Poster 'Wise1' is also correct re infection rates, but maybe German folk are far more disciplined than we are, except for the common obesity problem?
That's normal and is usually down to the Civil Servants not understanding how to let contracts that include effective performance clauses. There is a process they go through but they really need private sector expertise working in Govt. to understand how best to negotiate better contracts.
TT&I has been and is a success but not perfect.
Consider a thought experiment, that there are no PCR tests:
Doctors would recommend everybody and their family with an identified symptom to isolate for 10 to 14 days; instead after 24 to 48 hours between 98% and 85% of the tested are given the all clear; Saving, say, 8 working days.
At median wages, about £800. Government gets about £250 of this.
Consider a thought experiment, that there are no PCR tests:
Doctors would recommend everybody and their family with an identified symptom to isolate for 10 to 14 days; instead after 24 to 48 hours between 98% and 85% of the tested are given the all clear; Saving, say, 8 working days.
At median wages, about £800. Government gets about £250 of this.
Why are so many government contracts so bad?
It seems they are so badly written. Problems like too high costs, lack of phased payments based on success and lack of failure clauses are down to the senior civil servants not doing their jobs properly. They are meant to be the experts.
It seems they are so badly written. Problems like too high costs, lack of phased payments based on success and lack of failure clauses are down to the senior civil servants not doing their jobs properly. They are meant to be the experts.
Serco Chief executive Rupert Soames told the BBC: "It (test-and-trace) is now a remarkable success and I acknowledge it has taken quite some time to get there."....Serco is an absolute disgrace and it was awarded the contract based on jobs for the boys to fill the pockets of the fat cats again. Serco has a history of failure including the transportation and management of prisoners.
Can you provide some evidence to your claims ... including the evidence this was an appointment based on jobs for the boys.
You seem to be regurgitating Labour claims which often include individuals you know someone who know someone who know someone ... which means I am probably involved as I know someone who knows someone who knows someone.
You seem to be regurgitating Labour claims which often include individuals you know someone who know someone who know someone ... which means I am probably involved as I know someone who knows someone who knows someone.
Brother of a Conservative MP, went to Eaton, was a member of the Bullingdon club
Well I never, the usual Tory suspects defending the indefensible.
I hope HYS contributors have long memories and remember not to vote up your Tory propaganda in the future.
I hope HYS contributors have long memories and remember not to vote up your Tory propaganda in the future.
Look up how the most recent appointment of Director of Trace was made.
Rupert Soames, brother of Tory grandee Sir Nicholas Soames.
Baroness Dido Harding, husband of former Tory minister John Penrose.
Billions of public money funnelled to Tory donors & supporters.
Now Serco are shovelling that money into the pockets of their shareholders.
It's banana republic levels of corruption & snouts in troughs.
But Tory supporters just don't care - they agree with cronyism
Baroness Dido Harding, husband of former Tory minister John Penrose.
Billions of public money funnelled to Tory donors & supporters.
Now Serco are shovelling that money into the pockets of their shareholders.
It's banana republic levels of corruption & snouts in troughs.
But Tory supporters just don't care - they agree with cronyism
Are you aware of the 6 degrees of separation theory? We are all connected to someone who knows someone in a position of influence. That does not make any of us bad people.
Double hand shaking back handers. All MPs and full time ministers have been doing this for years.
You forgot Kate Bingham, who was responsible for setting up the vaccination programme and the vaccine purchase contracts - and wife of a Tory finance minister.
Good post!
You ought to have added that the same awardees will donate the remainder back to Matthew Parker Street.
Follow the Money!!
You ought to have added that the same awardees will donate the remainder back to Matthew Parker Street.
Follow the Money!!
Agreed. Epic and shameless corruptio and massive waste of taxpayers money. T&T app is so basic it prob cost £100k..where did the £22bn go?! Worst ever Govt thanks to ERG idiots.
It happens under Labour governments as well, they are both as bad as one another.
Dido Harding,(friend of Cameron)-amateur jockey friend of Rose Paterson chair of Aintree in 2014. Whose husband, Owen Paterson was Northern Ireland Secretary, who after 3 years stopped being NI Sec, was then adviser to Randox based in NI. Randox then awarded on 27/3/20, testing kits supply for Harding's Test and Trace. See info Guardian Weekend 20/2/21.
You forgot to mention that Rupert Soames is also grandson of Winston Churchill, who apparently was quite popular a few years ago.
Really! So criticising a post's typing and language can get your comment removed. Seems some people just cannot accept criticism, even polite criticism!
Ironic that it had 3 up votes and 1 down vote before being removed so others agreed.
If you want to judge for yourself, go look it up on ihysdb.com. It has every comment ever made by anyone on HYS listed there.
Off to wash my mouth out!
Ironic that it had 3 up votes and 1 down vote before being removed so others agreed.
If you want to judge for yourself, go look it up on ihysdb.com. It has every comment ever made by anyone on HYS listed there.
Off to wash my mouth out!
Would like to know how this company got the contract. My company but a full digital and organics track and trace system in March 2020. Approached the Gov no reply contacted heads of NHS England no reply? Would have saved thousands of lives and lock down restrictions. So before you start advocating what a good job it is doing it should have been sooner. Save life's Gov moto this delay caused lives
Rupert Soames, brother of Tory grandee Sir Nicholas Soames.
Baroness Dido Harding, husband of former Tory minister John Penrose.
Billions of public money funnelled to Tory donors & supporters.
Now Serco are shovelling that money into the pockets of their shareholders.
It's banana republic levels of corruption & snouts in troughs.
But Tory supporters just don't care - they agree with cronyism
Baroness Dido Harding, husband of former Tory minister John Penrose.
Billions of public money funnelled to Tory donors & supporters.
Now Serco are shovelling that money into the pockets of their shareholders.
It's banana republic levels of corruption & snouts in troughs.
But Tory supporters just don't care - they agree with cronyism
The 6 degrees of separation theory may or may not be true but that is totally irrelevant here. The people named here are all at one degree of separation. It stinks of cronyism, nepotism and corruption.
LOL... what a pathetic, nonsensical reply. Why on earth do you try such a ridiculous way of excusing what the Tories have done. None of us has family that has directly benefited from contracts awarded by the Tory Government.
Poor example of deflection. I've seen this before. Is this what you all decided to say on Conservative Home?
However, it is pretty clear (from the absence of other relevant qualification, experience, and genuine success) that in fact it is the connections that are driving v large sources of public money to individuals and companies that fail through incompetence or corruption.
Test and trace doing a lot of harm. Faulty tests being loaded up onto the system, causing problems for them who have not got the virus, but a test says they have. Even employees in care homes, if the care home has or had the virus, and put onto the track and trace, the employee who works there, find themselves on the system, and will activate them as positive on the system,
Many of the governments wrong turns were much less avoidable than critics like to make out. But from day 1 they completely bungled T&T. Lessons from everywhere were how important it would be, but they were late, wrong approach, wrong sub-contract, low success rate, low adherence by population, completely oversold.
"world class", My Bottom
"world class", My Bottom
Rupert Soames, brother of Tory grandee Sir Nicholas Soames.
Baroness Dido Harding, husband of former Tory minister John Penrose.
Billions of public money funnelled to Tory donors & supporters.
Now Serco are shovelling that money into the pockets of their shareholders.
It's banana republic levels of corruption & snouts in troughs.
But Tory supporters just don't care - they agree with cronyism
Baroness Dido Harding, husband of former Tory minister John Penrose.
Billions of public money funnelled to Tory donors & supporters.
Now Serco are shovelling that money into the pockets of their shareholders.
It's banana republic levels of corruption & snouts in troughs.
But Tory supporters just don't care - they agree with cronyism
Odd comparison to draw as the vaccination roll out only started in January whereas Test, Track and Trace has been absent or failing for almost a whole year. The phrase "damning with faint praise" comes to mind!
The effectiveness of Test and Trace is not the same as Serco making profit on the contract. As a company they are in the business of making money, mostly from the tax payer as the have so many fingers in the Public Sector. In this case it may have been appropriate to have a fixed margin. The trouble is that so much has been outsourced there is not the capability to do it "in house".
Rupert Soames is the grandson of Winston Churchill. By giving the contract to the company, the PM kept all the money in the family! (Tory Family).
The whole Testing regime and the Test & Trace regime is an enrichment scheme - corruption beyond imagination. If these were any other country we would scream black and blue, but hey its Britain - surely we are not corrupt?
The whole Testing regime and the Test & Trace regime is an enrichment scheme - corruption beyond imagination. If these were any other country we would scream black and blue, but hey its Britain - surely we are not corrupt?
OK now look at how many people those local teams contacted vs. how many the call centres contacted.
The local cases are cases that involve door-stopping people, or outbreaks in factories etc. That's fundamentally different from ringing people up. You would need a ridiculous amount of people if you wanted to do it all 'on the ground'.
The local cases are cases that involve door-stopping people, or outbreaks in factories etc. That's fundamentally different from ringing people up. You would need a ridiculous amount of people if you wanted to do it all 'on the ground'.
Rupert Soames, brother of Tory grandee Sir Nicholas Soames.
Baroness Dido Harding, husband of former Tory minister John Penrose.
Billions of public money funnelled to Tory donors & supporters.
Now Serco are shovelling that money into the pockets of their shareholders.
It's banana republic levels of corruption & snouts in troughs.
But Tory supporters just don't care - they agree with cronyism
Baroness Dido Harding, husband of former Tory minister John Penrose.
Billions of public money funnelled to Tory donors & supporters.
Now Serco are shovelling that money into the pockets of their shareholders.
It's banana republic levels of corruption & snouts in troughs.
But Tory supporters just don't care - they agree with cronyism
That would be the same Kate Bingham who made such a brilliant success out of the the whole process of identifying the likely best vaccines, negotiating good procurement contracts, preparing the logistical plan for roll-out, ensuring the approvals process was geared up to get approvals in the quickest time possible and proving how great British private sector businesses can be.
That Kate Bingham?
That Kate Bingham?
What Mr Soames actually said is that the "net impact" of the pandemic is less than 1% of profit. He did not specifically state how much profit SERCO has made from track and trace and cleverly sought to disguise this by offsetting the lost profits in other SERCO businesses resulting form the pandemic.
Smoke and mirrors with the figures and shareholders get a dividend seveal times the staff bonus.
Smoke and mirrors with the figures and shareholders get a dividend seveal times the staff bonus.
The whole Lateral Flow Tests business in normal times would be rejected outright in a sane world!
30 to 40% false negative rates - i.e one in three positive cases will be missed. This is stated in a Parliamentary paper published on 29th Jan 2021.
So why are we rolling out a testing regime that is not fit by any standards?
Surely not to enrich the 'inner circle'?
Corruption & Incompetence!
30 to 40% false negative rates - i.e one in three positive cases will be missed. This is stated in a Parliamentary paper published on 29th Jan 2021.
So why are we rolling out a testing regime that is not fit by any standards?
Surely not to enrich the 'inner circle'?
Corruption & Incompetence!
Can you provide some evidence to your claims ... including the evidence this was an appointment based on jobs for the boys.
You seem to be regurgitating Labour claims which often include individuals you know someone who know someone who know someone ... which means I am probably involved as I know someone who knows someone who knows someone.
You seem to be regurgitating Labour claims which often include individuals you know someone who know someone who know someone ... which means I am probably involved as I know someone who knows someone who knows someone.
Off course the boss of this useless firm is going to defend its actions.
It was very brave of the serco team to take on what was such a pointless and impossible exercise. If only they had been given the far more sensible and far more profitable vaccination programme instead.
Fair enough - though the post is still flawed. The app was not in place before ours.
The German app shows the first commit on the week of May 24, though who knows if it was public or private.
Our app has commits from March but only made a public repo in early May. So no, theirs did not come first.
Ours was also more accurate & our work in that area helped to improve the Apple/Google framework.
The German app shows the first commit on the week of May 24, though who knows if it was public or private.
Our app has commits from March but only made a public repo in early May. So no, theirs did not come first.
Ours was also more accurate & our work in that area helped to improve the Apple/Google framework.
I don't see anything wrong or stupid about brexit.
Oh dear. While trying to illustrate stupidity you use the phrase "case and point" while most educated people know the phrase is actually "case in point". Anything else you'd like to add?
Two girl guides and a scout could done much better than the test and not trace anyone shower.
The effectiveness of Test and Trace is not the same as Serco making profit on the contract. As a company they are in the business of making money, mostly from the tax payer as the have so many fingers in the Public Sector. In this case it may have been appropriate to have a fixed margin. The trouble is that so much has been outsourced there is not the capability to do it "in house".
So where did the £22,000 million go to for the T&T programme? Where? Scandalous. And the app is only worth £500k max its so basic. Total corruptin and theft of public money
Totally agree!
Now we must Follow That Money
If any of it lands back in Matthew Parker Street then we must see prosecutions
Now we must Follow That Money
If any of it lands back in Matthew Parker Street then we must see prosecutions
A few folk (in the know) have cleaned up during this crisis. All will have a "friend" in the government. Or, would you call it a business associate?
£22bn is the total budget for T&T, across all aspects of the programme - testing, laboratories, machines, mass testing, contact tracing and the app. Up to October, total expenditure was approx. 4bn
UK has completed some 87.6 million tests - the 5th highest in the world (after China, India, USA and Russia).
We have to bow to your superior expertise of assessing the the value of the app.
UK has completed some 87.6 million tests - the 5th highest in the world (after China, India, USA and Russia).
We have to bow to your superior expertise of assessing the the value of the app.
Rupert Soames, brother of Tory grandee Sir Nicholas Soames.
Baroness Dido Harding, husband of former Tory minister John Penrose.
Billions of public money funnelled to Tory donors & supporters.
Now Serco are shovelling that money into the pockets of their shareholders.
It's banana republic levels of corruption & snouts in troughs.
But Tory supporters just don't care - they agree with cronyism
Baroness Dido Harding, husband of former Tory minister John Penrose.
Billions of public money funnelled to Tory donors & supporters.
Now Serco are shovelling that money into the pockets of their shareholders.
It's banana republic levels of corruption & snouts in troughs.
But Tory supporters just don't care - they agree with cronyism