Covid: 'No evidence' schools spread lots of coronavirus
15/02/2021 | news | health | 1,386
Researchers looked at teacher and pupil Covid "sick days" in England in the autumn term up to Christmas.
1
15/02/2021 16:11:58 16 15
bbc
Yes, but that does not matter in the eyes of the teaching unions.
15
15/02/2021 16:16:39 15 7
bbc
The main priority that matters and should always matter in the eyes of the teaching unions is the safety of the teachers.
2
Jd
15/02/2021 16:12:54 10 4
bbc
Maybe that's because staff and students were teaching at a distance while in schools, doors and windows open. Cleaning everything, hand sanitiser, year or class bubbles, seating plans so we knew who was near who if someone caught CoV2. Face masks, distancing at break time and for staff during and after day. First aiders with masks and visors and seperate medical rooms for each student.
3
15/02/2021 16:12:57 7 7
bbc
Better tell Starmer!!
25
15/02/2021 16:20:03 2 3
bbc
He'll be telling Boris he knew this already, at next pmqs
4
15/02/2021 16:12:58 23 17
bbc
".............................. with no evidence schools were a major driver of cases." & school transmission "does occur but tends to be small scale".
So much for the scare mongering propaganda fed to us by unions, labour & the media.
12
Jd
15/02/2021 16:15:29 15 6
bbc
We followed the rules.. Year or class bubbles, sanitiser for everything. Cleaning rooms between use. Seating plans to track who was near who. No wonder there is a smaller risk, schools followed social distancing rules. Bet you didn't.
14
15/02/2021 16:16:06 5 6
bbc
Yep. Most unions operate to find ways of preventing things rather than getting things done.
5
15/02/2021 16:13:11 81 4
bbc
All a bit wishy washy this one, no evidence and so on, not certain, its a political decision. I have to ask then, if there is such a lack of evidence in school place based transmission, why have the schools be closed for so long?
59
15/02/2021 16:29:50 61 11
bbc
Infection rates have steadily fallen since schools were partially closed again last month
86
Bob
15/02/2021 16:39:17 5 0
bbc
No one claimed children or schools don't transmit it. Just they are much less likely to do so. That's the claim.

Why closed? High cases in community. If you have a die & I said 'roll a 6' you've less chance of that than if I said 'roll an odd num'. If I give you 10 dice & said any dice can be the 6 or any dice can be odd your chances increase. But in line with each other.
972
15/02/2021 19:45:03 0 0
bbc
For the same reason we have lock-down, China does it that way.
6
15/02/2021 16:13:16 316 85
bbc
30 people indoors, in a relatively small space, for quite a length of time and where social distancing is virtually impossible...is this allowed under covid regulations?

The above is a description of a school classroom full of pupils.
34
15/02/2021 16:22:52 181 53
bbc
When you describe it like that...if they do open schools you may as well open pubs as well.
37
Ben
15/02/2021 16:24:07 14 9
bbc
Different age groups have different viral loads, the less sick you get the less virus you likely have to shed. This isn't always the case but there would be loads of cases in schools amongst teachers if the non-socially distanced kids you talk about spread it considerably. This study has found teachers aren't getting sick which would be the case if what you said was true.
50
15/02/2021 16:27:22 18 10
bbc
With the success of the vaccine roll out lines like this are becoming more difficult to sell.

Yes it will cause a few thousand more cases and deaths but worth it for the futures of millions of children.
62
15/02/2021 16:31:43 30 12
bbc
Fine let's keep them closed till there is no risk at all then. Let's let down the kids from broken homes, who view school as their only outlet. I'm not in a high risk group, but if I was i'd happily stay in lockdown if I thought it meant kids could continue to have a happy childhood. Childhood is incredible short and a year is a lifetime when you are child. Makes you question who are being selfish
128
15/02/2021 16:46:10 1 1
bbc
Hey you are right! Why doesn't JVT listen to you?
135
15/02/2021 16:47:06 11 4
bbc
The main difference is that, compared with the pub, after a while in the classroom you do not have your best mate slobbering over you tell you that they love you....

....or maybe you do!
167
15/02/2021 16:55:38 8 16
bbc
All but one or two of them are children though, who are not especially susceptible to the virus. Published studies show households with children have fewer infections. Children simply aren't a vector for the virus, but the staff might infect each other so lock the staff room door.
203
DbD
15/02/2021 17:01:12 2 0
bbc
From what I have seen the staff room is a greater risk then the class room. The primary school near us had an outbreak and lots of teachers got it but not many kids. While one of the kids might have brought it in originally the big spread was across the teaching staff not between the kids themselves.
251
15/02/2021 17:13:42 2 1
bbc
I wish I’d seen your comment before I wrote mine ?? spot on
301
15/02/2021 17:23:47 4 5
bbc
But young people are less likely to be infected.
436
15/02/2021 17:54:30 4 2
bbc
Fine, I don't have a problem in schools remaining closed indefinitely. Given some of the spelling mistakes & grammatical errors seen on HYS it is obvious that education is not working.
600
15/02/2021 18:24:54 4 3
bbc
500-2000 pupils from different household intermingling, touching, hugging, breathing on each other in a confined space, building up a high viral load, for 7 hours a day, 5 days a week = no problem!

Sports event, outside, 2 hours, people standing next to each other = reported by the media as ‘super spreader events’.

So which is it?
605
15/02/2021 18:14:42 0 1
bbc
It is if you are the Mayor of Blackburn
628
15/02/2021 18:28:54 1 3
bbc
• What we do is what Australia and New Zealand do; could add South Korea, Japan and Vietnam to the list as well.

It's because of countries like us, the USA and Brazil that this virus continues to spread and hence mutate. Mutations have every chance of undermining vaccination programmes.

Seems some want us to go on going in circles out of pure stupidity!
670
15/02/2021 18:36:33 1 2
bbc
In the class it is partially controllable, and teacher can minimise contact to help keep themselves safer, At break times as I have witnessed it is a total free for all among pupils and a lot more than 30.
721
15/02/2021 18:45:12 4 2
bbc
Get schools back and open up everything. If you feel you are forced back to the chalk face then go strike. Strikers don’t have to do anything but don’t get paid
766
15/02/2021 18:52:10 3 3
bbc
Of course, children can catch it and spread it. Are they telling us there's been some remarkable change to biology and that kids don't catch or spread disease?!

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/05/health/coronavirus-children-transmission-school.html
804
15/02/2021 19:05:02 0 2
bbc
All wearing masks and nobody talking. Plenty of ventilation. No adults. Only for up to 5 hours a day. Cramped buses twice a day.
829
15/02/2021 19:03:01 2 2
bbc
Fully agreed....no room to social distance between the children in the classroom! All sitting right next to each other as classrooms too small!! Covid loves a crowd!!!
834
15/02/2021 19:13:32 2 0
bbc
and what if 29 of them are effectively immune? Does the 30th give it to themself?
906
15/02/2021 19:29:54 1 1
bbc
And no need to wear masks !!!
914
15/02/2021 19:32:09 2 0
bbc
And if only 1 in 1000 or less has C19 how likely us as outbreak?
15/02/2021 22:29:59 0 1
bbc
Add another thirty X 5 lessons a day for secondary school teachers.
7
15/02/2021 16:13:48 151 14
bbc
If you're referencing published works, then *please, please* provide a link to the primary source.

Also, while I've not read the report, if it is indeed just looking at school absences, then that suggests it only deals with symptomatic cases in children, not asymptomatic transmission, so isn't necessarily telling us the whole story.
30
Bob
15/02/2021 16:22:03 52 31
bbc
And when the child passes it on to their teacher who gets symptoms what do they do? Isolate and report absent.
And when the child passes it on to their parents who then gets symptoms what do they do? Isolate and report absent.

Open your field of view.
268
15/02/2021 17:16:35 6 1
bbc
100% agree -- far too much of this is `in a paper published today', which this newspaper has seen a copy', `experts warn' and then possibly in some outlets, e.g, FT a statement `yet to be peer reviewed'. Universities and research institutes don't help because they want `media coverage'. This does not help.
8
15/02/2021 16:14:18 10 10
bbc
This. The very obvious, top priority move would be to vaccinate the teachers and open schools.
But the government, as usual, is doing everything backwards.
49
15/02/2021 16:27:13 3 1
bbc
The very obvious to everyone apart from the scientists on the JCVI you mean.
9
15/02/2021 16:14:22 38 18
bbc
There seems to be growing research on various transmission methods (last week it was that you can't catch CV19 from a golf ball) that show it's not as easily transmitted as was first claimed.

But will those that have over-reacted change their polices ? Nope - but they simply refuse to admit that they were wrong in the first place.
269
15/02/2021 17:16:38 9 4
bbc
Except that's not true is it! They said 'unlikley', especially from an absorbent surface like a tennis ball, much more likely from a smooth, hard surface like a cricket or golf ball.
10
15/02/2021 16:14:35 85 9
bbc
It seems this report was based on absences from school. If most children are asymptomatic then surely they wouldn't necessarily be absent? They can however catch it and spread it to more vulnerable members of their family. The case numbers for the past year seems to correlate quite well to when the schools were and weren't open.
19
Bob
15/02/2021 16:18:08 13 24
bbc
As you say they can catch it and pass it on to their family.

When they do they would then have to isolate. Guess what that means? An absence.
273
15/02/2021 17:17:21 1 0
bbc
Like at Christmas...?
15/02/2021 19:51:24 1 1
bbc
Not according to the literature IF they are 10 & under, they neither pass it to each other nor to adults, & they catch it from adults.
11
15/02/2021 16:14:53 12 6
bbc
This is garbage research from a scientific perspective. Most kids are asymptomatic so reporting sick is no indication of infection rates. Most of my son's university friends had Covid. The only reason they knew is that every so often one got some mild symptons so they tested and to their surprise they had it. Real science would have been based on swab testing. Which Tory think tank paid for this?
16
Bob
15/02/2021 16:17:15 8 3
bbc
But it wasn't limited to just pupils.

Additionally the pupils would still be off school if they were spreading it to parents etc as they would need to isolate once they became infected.
21
15/02/2021 16:18:44 2 2
bbc
For all voting down - this is bad science. No responsible journalist should be publishing non peer reviewed papers
4
15/02/2021 16:12:58 23 17
bbc
".............................. with no evidence schools were a major driver of cases." & school transmission "does occur but tends to be small scale".
So much for the scare mongering propaganda fed to us by unions, labour & the media.
12
Jd
15/02/2021 16:15:29 15 6
bbc
We followed the rules.. Year or class bubbles, sanitiser for everything. Cleaning rooms between use. Seating plans to track who was near who. No wonder there is a smaller risk, schools followed social distancing rules. Bet you didn't.
13
15/02/2021 16:15:34 72 6
bbc
"no evidence".. sounds familiar..
42
15/02/2021 16:25:36 97 121
bbc
We need to get the kids back to school ASAP.

Will it cause more infections - probably.

Will it cause more deaths - probably a few but far far less due to the success of the vaccine roll out.

Is it worth the risk for the future opportunities of 19 million children - absolutely.
719
15/02/2021 18:44:46 0 1
bbc
Yes!
4
15/02/2021 16:12:58 23 17
bbc
".............................. with no evidence schools were a major driver of cases." & school transmission "does occur but tends to be small scale".
So much for the scare mongering propaganda fed to us by unions, labour & the media.
14
15/02/2021 16:16:06 5 6
bbc
Yep. Most unions operate to find ways of preventing things rather than getting things done.
28
15/02/2021 16:20:49 4 4
bbc
Fed by science but then anti-lockdown people are driven by their hurty feelings not science. 30 people inside with a respiratory illness is a vector for infection. Fact not feelings.
1
15/02/2021 16:11:58 16 15
bbc
Yes, but that does not matter in the eyes of the teaching unions.
15
15/02/2021 16:16:39 15 7
bbc
The main priority that matters and should always matter in the eyes of the teaching unions is the safety of the teachers.
83
15/02/2021 16:38:58 1 3
bbc
But they have their own political agenda. Bausted has always been a communist. I used to travel to school with her on a bus and she was the same at that age as she is now. Anti everybody but herself.
221
15/02/2021 17:05:49 1 1
bbc
Why don't unions provide their members with medical masks, visors and gloves to keep them safe. Also a screen around the teachers desk. Sanitisers in every room. Let the teachers change class rooms not the pupils. Also provide disposable masks in each room to give a clean one to each pupil as they walk in the room.
11
15/02/2021 16:14:53 12 6
bbc
This is garbage research from a scientific perspective. Most kids are asymptomatic so reporting sick is no indication of infection rates. Most of my son's university friends had Covid. The only reason they knew is that every so often one got some mild symptons so they tested and to their surprise they had it. Real science would have been based on swab testing. Which Tory think tank paid for this?
16
Bob
15/02/2021 16:17:15 8 3
bbc
But it wasn't limited to just pupils.

Additionally the pupils would still be off school if they were spreading it to parents etc as they would need to isolate once they became infected.
39
15/02/2021 16:24:35 1 1
bbc
Bob you raise a good point. The issue is there are delays. If it takes 5 days to get infected, the kid can get it and then pass it on to the parents who then after 5 days gets it. The result is that it could have been bouncing around for almost 10 days before it becomes visible. That is 10 days of potential transmission. It then becomes like whack a mole as you are constantly catching up
17
15/02/2021 16:17:33 8 9
bbc
Which Tory think tank paid for this unscientific report? Why is the BBC promoting non peer reviewed propaganda? Interesting this comes out the day the Covid killer group of Tories has started lobbying for another reckless early raising of lockdown.
18
15/02/2021 16:17:56 3 8
bbc
Oh dear the education unions will decide this is a science lesson they don't want to hear
10
15/02/2021 16:14:35 85 9
bbc
It seems this report was based on absences from school. If most children are asymptomatic then surely they wouldn't necessarily be absent? They can however catch it and spread it to more vulnerable members of their family. The case numbers for the past year seems to correlate quite well to when the schools were and weren't open.
19
Bob
15/02/2021 16:18:08 13 24
bbc
As you say they can catch it and pass it on to their family.

When they do they would then have to isolate. Guess what that means? An absence.
29
15/02/2021 16:21:52 11 3
bbc
You're assuming there that Track and Trace works perfectly. Most cases never even get picked up by track and trace. The majority of people who have it never even get tested.
41
15/02/2021 16:25:13 6 4
bbc
after 5-10 days of spreading it.
47
15/02/2021 16:26:55 15 3
bbc
Not necessarily. It could well be a child becomes infected at school and is asymptomatic. They pass it on to a parent who then also become infected, but maybe also asymptomatic. They then go to work and pass it on to a colleague who develops symptoms. The child in question would have had no absence from school in this case.
594
15/02/2021 18:23:51 1 1
bbc
...an absence and the possibility of a death or two in the family as I have experienced through Covid. Remember it has caused 120,000+ UK deaths. If you love your children and your elderly relatives protect them both equally.
15/02/2021 22:04:01 0 1
bbc
Yes, but, crucially, not linked to the school. It would show as a community case. Testing a child accurately is virtually impossible too.
16/02/2021 02:24:53 0 1
bbc
Are children who are absent from school because of isolating classed as off sick?
20
15/02/2021 16:18:12 126 19
bbc
it says an absence of evidence. Well yes, children don't tend to get sick!!! Which doesn't mean that they don't go back home and spread it to their families once they've all caught it at school!
107
15/02/2021 16:43:37 47 55
bbc
Or what about you going to work, then going the supermarket and spreading it. At least the kids just go to school and then home. As far as I know my kids don't go knocking on pensioners doors asking if they want to play out.
255
15/02/2021 17:14:17 6 1
bbc
And mum's don't swop covid with each other at the school gates!
738
Bob
15/02/2021 18:47:51 1 0
bbc
The study isn't just looking at students. Also, children still have to isolate if just one person comes down with it, or the teacher. Also-also, some children DO get sick.

All that means is the plot for children on your graph is low down - but variance is still present, and that's the key to comparisons. You want to know how the ratio changes.
11
15/02/2021 16:14:53 12 6
bbc
This is garbage research from a scientific perspective. Most kids are asymptomatic so reporting sick is no indication of infection rates. Most of my son's university friends had Covid. The only reason they knew is that every so often one got some mild symptons so they tested and to their surprise they had it. Real science would have been based on swab testing. Which Tory think tank paid for this?
21
15/02/2021 16:18:44 2 2
bbc
For all voting down - this is bad science. No responsible journalist should be publishing non peer reviewed papers
22
DbD
15/02/2021 16:18:52 7 3
bbc
I wish they'd do more research. Highly likely the amount of covid spread by playing golf/tennis/fishing outside as been 0 but all those activities get shut down with everything else. Shutting stuff down needlessly is helping no one.
70
15/02/2021 16:33:56 5 3
bbc
It's not the activities. It's the people partaking in them. A significant amount of whom seem to think they are above the rules and guidance laid out and therefore do not social distance, don't wear masks, don't wash hands whilst partaking in such activities as golf, tennis, etc. where they may/do come into contact with other people.

We should have shut down a lot more this time last year...
23
15/02/2021 16:19:06 14 4
bbc
Schools may not drive Covid but as the report says they mirror the local area. So when cases are on the up shut schools because they’ll be on the up there also and because of density at more risk. Ok for the kids because the young generally fight it better but not for older parents, teachers or grandparents. I caught it bad from the daughters primary school in December.
24
15/02/2021 16:19:51 1 1
bbc
Suprised there is no evidence one way or the other. Could this be due when a child has symptoms they are more likely to have been told to self isolate rather than get tested? Hopefully on the next return there will be more testing, for the child, their family and staff, so that definitive information one way or the other can be obtained.
56
15/02/2021 16:29:07 0 2
bbc
*surprised - education?
3
15/02/2021 16:12:57 7 7
bbc
Better tell Starmer!!
25
15/02/2021 16:20:03 2 3
bbc
He'll be telling Boris he knew this already, at next pmqs
44
15/02/2021 16:26:18 1 1
bbc
He'll tell Boris. Then Boris will deny it. Then two weeks later Boris will announce what Starmer already told him. And repeat.
26
15/02/2021 16:20:36 3 15
bbc
We need to re-open schools soon. Ive sat with the grandkids whilst they do the home school and they learn nothing. 1 of them was being taught weights, He's 8, the teacher asked him how much he weighed, he said 4 and a half foot. The teacher didnt even correct him. Useless.
87
15/02/2021 16:39:29 1 0
bbc
Anyone who thinks primary school ages kids can teach themselves in front of a laptop is a muppet.
94
15/02/2021 16:40:57 0 0
bbc
I wouldn’t send him back to that school then
96
15/02/2021 16:41:07 1 0
bbc
You seriously imagine it is any different in the school classroom full of them? Schooling is appalling at education but great at free childcare, it’s the only reason any part of it is open!
27
15/02/2021 16:20:44 19 5
bbc
That's good news, though I don't doubt for one second that if the virus starts spiking again our wonderful press will use it as another excuse to blame the "irresponsible" younger generation for spreading it despite insisting that schools need to re-open ASAP.
15/02/2021 20:39:28 0 1
bbc
Or being given the mixed message that it is safe to mix in a room with 30+ different households. But you can’t visit your mates or meet with them in the street!
14
15/02/2021 16:16:06 5 6
bbc
Yep. Most unions operate to find ways of preventing things rather than getting things done.
28
15/02/2021 16:20:49 4 4
bbc
Fed by science but then anti-lockdown people are driven by their hurty feelings not science. 30 people inside with a respiratory illness is a vector for infection. Fact not feelings.
61
15/02/2021 16:31:24 2 6
bbc
Could you provide a link to any peer reviewed research that conclusively proves that lockdown provides any significant benefit over and above that of social distancing? It is precisely the lack of 'science' that makes those that think rather than those that just listen to the scaremongers sceptical about lockdown.
19
Bob
15/02/2021 16:18:08 13 24
bbc
As you say they can catch it and pass it on to their family.

When they do they would then have to isolate. Guess what that means? An absence.
29
15/02/2021 16:21:52 11 3
bbc
You're assuming there that Track and Trace works perfectly. Most cases never even get picked up by track and trace. The majority of people who have it never even get tested.
212
Bob
15/02/2021 17:03:26 5 2
bbc
I would like to think a teacher would phone the school and say they've tested positive, not rely on T&T.

Likewise a parent who keeps their child off school would have to phone in to say the child will be absent. When asked why I doubt they would lie and say 'nope, it ain't COVID, you don't need to isolate the others'.
7
15/02/2021 16:13:48 151 14
bbc
If you're referencing published works, then *please, please* provide a link to the primary source.

Also, while I've not read the report, if it is indeed just looking at school absences, then that suggests it only deals with symptomatic cases in children, not asymptomatic transmission, so isn't necessarily telling us the whole story.
30
Bob
15/02/2021 16:22:03 52 31
bbc
And when the child passes it on to their teacher who gets symptoms what do they do? Isolate and report absent.
And when the child passes it on to their parents who then gets symptoms what do they do? Isolate and report absent.

Open your field of view.
249
15/02/2021 17:13:08 13 6
bbc
And when the child passes it on to their grandparents who then gets symptoms what do they do? Die.
250
15/02/2021 17:13:22 14 5
bbc
So the kids pass it around without showing any symptoms and then go home and pass it to family, who may also show no symptoms and they go out and pass it around.... I have been working in a school and it is not possible to keep the kids away from each other. Since we can't vaccinate the kids they need to stay at home until there is very little virus in the community.
303
15/02/2021 17:23:55 8 4
bbc
I know of one teacher who has had to isolate 4 times due to infections in the school. Too young to have the vaccine and even if he had it we do not know if it prevents transmission.
392
15/02/2021 17:46:52 5 3
bbc
Lots of assumptions. Parents can also be asymptomatic. Parents may send kids to school anyway as they feel ill. Not everyone can afford to be tested. Not every parent gets it from their kids - that does not stop the kid infecting others.
506
15/02/2021 18:07:28 4 2
bbc
Why would the teacher or relative necessarily show symptoms?

If a kid asymptotically transmits to a relative, who asymptomatically transmits it to someone else who then shows symptoms, this wouldn’t show up in the study.
662
15/02/2021 18:35:30 2 1
bbc
By which time the parents have passed it on to many others.
701
15/02/2021 18:42:23 2 0
bbc
30-40% of cases are asymptomatic, I suspect that's higher in children. Pass it to parents, then pass it to work colleagues, then their families, then other schools. Huge amount of contacts and mixing.
927
15/02/2021 19:35:11 2 0
bbc
" Among children with identified HHSCs, we found no evidence of child-to-adult transmission. This is consistent with other studies that suggest that children are not the primary vectors for SARS-CoV-2 infection as was initially suspected; rather children are most commonly infected by adult sick contact"

https://academic.oup.com/jpids/advance-article/doi/10.1093/jpids/piaa158/6007439
31
15/02/2021 16:22:32 47 12
bbc
Schools cant spread it, children do!
90
15/02/2021 16:40:07 24 19
bbc
Why are we all still going to work then? Work can't spread it adults do! So your point is?
32
15/02/2021 16:22:36 6 2
bbc
Wow, lots is a great quantitative scientific term...talk about dumbed down BBC. Regardless to the right or wrong of the research, Warwick will be a bit annoyed at this headline.
Can we not have even, less than 1 SD in the article write up, .5 SD or whatever the research found. You know, actually make it sound like scientific research, even if it's badly done?
33
Ben
15/02/2021 16:22:39 278 79
bbc
This is nonsense. There's an absence of evidence that schools spread Covid, therefore schools don't spread Covid, is the weakest of weak arguments.

Look at a graph of Covid peaks in the uk.

Look at when schools were open.

Amazingly, they match. Doesn't mean one causes the other but as Paul Hunter from UEA said in May, closing schools is the MOST effective tool to suppress the virus.
60
15/02/2021 16:30:42 116 38
bbc
Look at the graph of coronavirus peaks in the UK. Lower cases in months that do not have an "r" in them (May, June, July, August). Amazingly, they match.
Stay alert. Change the calendar. Save lives
145
15/02/2021 16:49:23 15 1
bbc
Those graphs also cover the same period when universities opened, complete with freshers weeks and such socialising. Schools were no more a part of this rise than pubs and restaurants.
157
Bob
15/02/2021 16:53:34 23 2
bbc
Firstly schools have been open throughout.

When schools were 'closed', so too were pubs, restaurants, gyms, non essential retail, people working from home, no household mixing, no gatherings etc etc.

You are viewing a graph of the impact of total measures, not just schools.

This is why the study compared against other sectors & the community. If schools are bad - they'd stick out vs. elsewhere.
195
15/02/2021 17:00:08 12 1
bbc
Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.
253
15/02/2021 17:13:52 12 7
bbc
The biggest, steepest peak by far was over Christmas.

So remind me, were schools open over Christmas, or were they closed?
322
15/02/2021 17:28:06 4 1
bbc
Correlation = Causation? Ignoring other variables? That’s nonsense. You even contradict yourself at the end of your comment - the only sensible thing in it. And since last May we have acres more evidence about transmission
343
S
15/02/2021 17:34:59 6 3
bbc
Armchair science at its best - honestly why bother opening something like for comments from the uninformed.

Correlation is not that same as causation!

Let me put it this way:

Homelessness and crime in neighbourhoods have an almost equal trending correlation. But homelessness doesn't, in fact, CAUSE crime - which is most likely due to something else - such as unemployment or alcohol abuse!
378
15/02/2021 17:43:35 6 0
bbc
Just ignoring how the numbers in society overall dropped significantly during the November lockdown whilst the schools were still open but nothing else was? Or the impact of of opening and closing of the hospitality sector? Or the govt encouraging us to go back into the offices? Or the Christmas period socialisation? Twisting a conclusion to fit a viewpoint without considering all the evidence.
405
15/02/2021 17:43:51 1 0
bbc
You're right, the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
407
RPH
15/02/2021 17:49:32 2 0
bbc
First you say there is no evidence, they you claim your statement as fact.... without evidence......
511
15/02/2021 18:08:29 4 1
bbc
Strange - they have never been closed in either Norway or Sweden - and both of them have fared better than the UK. There is and never has been any evidence for transmission in schools. Closing them was a hugely destructive thing to do as was closing down the rest of society.
544
15/02/2021 18:14:48 1 1
bbc
I find it odd that the ONS data issued September/October time showed that the infection rate was high in senior schools (also in universities and workplaces), but we then get this report, which as this poster says seems to be very selective with the figures it wants to use.

What's the real agenda here?
591
15/02/2021 18:22:50 1 0
bbc
They also went up when the colder weather started coming around in September and October and have peaked in February strangely enough the coldest month of the year
614
15/02/2021 18:27:01 1 0
bbc
Sorry, if you look at only schools opening and infection rates then it is easy to find the correlation that you are desperate for. Try looking at all the sectors that opened at the same time as schools, try looking at the data of all the students returning home from universities.
663
15/02/2021 18:35:33 0 1
bbc
Exactly! The anecdotal evidence, i.e. looking at the graphs of cases and comparing when cases rose and fell, suggest schools are more effective spreaders of the virus than shops, pubs and cafes.
767
15/02/2021 18:52:37 1 1
bbc
Of course, children can catch it and spread it. Are they telling us there's been some remarkable change to biology and that kids don't catch or spread disease?!

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/05/health/coronavirus-children-transmission-school.html
775
15/02/2021 18:54:14 1 0
bbc
I have never been seen in the same room as Superman. I’m guessing by your, reasoning that I must be Superman.

But look at the graph...... Look, if you want to be an armchair scientist at least attempt to demonstrate causality.
787
15/02/2021 19:00:30 1 1
bbc
"Look at a graph of Covid peaks in the uk.

Look at when schools were open."

Schools were closed in April and late December these are the 2 months with the highest rises in COVID.

Schools were open in November, COVID rates fell, pubs and shops reopened in December, up went the rates.

Stop lying or look the figures up:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
790
15/02/2021 19:01:39 1 0
bbc
Rubbish. Transmission via family and friends' groups failing to adhere to distancing rules is a far greater spreader of the virus than anything else - which is why the lockdowns have reduced infections.
917
15/02/2021 19:32:45 1 0
bbc
They really don't
16/02/2021 04:19:01 0 0
bbc
We don't close school to suppress the spread of flu, colds or nits. Now that teachers can have a vaccine, we don't need to protect them from corona. Even if children spread the virus in the community, the vulnerable are vaccinated. Therefore, there is no longer a justification for keeping children out of school.
6
15/02/2021 16:13:16 316 85
bbc
30 people indoors, in a relatively small space, for quite a length of time and where social distancing is virtually impossible...is this allowed under covid regulations?

The above is a description of a school classroom full of pupils.
34
15/02/2021 16:22:52 181 53
bbc
When you describe it like that...if they do open schools you may as well open pubs as well.
121
15/02/2021 16:45:22 7 24
bbc
If schools open even more then in effect there is no longer any anti covid measures. We all know the should be last to open. It is only political appeasement that matters though not practical virus defence.mor the borders would by locked up quarantine access only, from day one. Still not got it.
150
15/02/2021 16:50:48 21 4
bbc
the majority of children have a better understanding of the rules than someadults
176
15/02/2021 16:56:30 9 0
bbc
Why? No one in your usual pub needs to learn anything, as they know-it-all!
186
15/02/2021 16:58:35 19 3
bbc
So going out for a pint is as important as schooling is it?
234
15/02/2021 17:08:35 3 1
bbc
Exactly..... Non essential shops pose a much lower risk when the facts are looked at
283
15/02/2021 17:19:56 7 5
bbc
There are crucial differences between pubs and schools. Pubs contain adults that catch covid, get a high viral load, and spread it to others. Adults can get very sick with the disease. Children on the other hand don't get very sick, have low viral load and much more rarely pass it to others. Schools provide education which keeps people out of poverty. Pubs provide hangovers.
650
15/02/2021 18:33:31 1 2
bbc
Agreed! In fact probably pubs and shops should be open BEFORE schools
805
15/02/2021 19:05:33 3 1
bbc
Pubs were VERY much safer.
838
15/02/2021 19:13:49 0 0
bbc
Do so.
856
15/02/2021 19:17:26 1 2
bbc
Give us a break. There’s no sense of social distancing ina pub.
959
PJB
15/02/2021 19:43:35 0 0
bbc
Correct, but watch out for the puritans to start pushing for prohibition soon.
35
15/02/2021 16:20:27 9 19
bbc
This was well established many months ago.

The honest and decent among us have been saying almost from the start that all students, except the very few vulnerable, should be in school, and that exams should never have been cancelled.

The toll on kid's education, and mental health, is truly immense. Yet even now, with 15 million vaccinated, Boris obstinately refuses to do the what's right.
45
15/02/2021 16:26:22 10 8
bbc
I supose you believe in a flat earth as well.
53
15/02/2021 16:27:40 2 1
bbc
The kids will be back 8/3 when the vulnerable people who've just had their jab will be protected.
271
15/02/2021 17:16:42 0 0
bbc
Warning to all you degenerates “Honest & Decent” people are now among this group. Beware lol
36
15/02/2021 16:23:51 180 37
bbc
No evidence? 30 plus people crammed in a classroom. Well in excess of 100 people attending each school. If there’s no evidence large gatherings of humans don’t ‘spread lots of Covid’ then why all the current restrictions?
120
15/02/2021 16:45:11 85 35
bbc
The article says it all; this is a political decision.

Yes it will increase infections, yes it will increase deaths ( but not by much thanks to the success of the vaccine roll out). The government have decided that the future opportunities of 10 million children are worth the risk.

If you disagree with this decision then there are local elections this summer and a general election in 2024.
237
15/02/2021 17:03:52 9 3
bbc
IMO a little simplistic a view as there are always many factors at play.

So, looking at the graph of cases on the COVID Dashboard, in November lockdown when schools remained open... did cases continue to rise?

No, they dropped at what appears a comparable rate to how they have dropped in this January lockdown.
484
15/02/2021 18:03:28 2 4
bbc
Thousands in many schools. If you can find the data for infections by age group (UWE published) school age infections absolutely skyrocketed from mid Sept onwards and was higher than any other age group.

As you say, if 30 kids in a classroom, without masks, touching, breathing on each other (and me) doesn’t spread covid, then why all the other restrictions?
550
15/02/2021 18:15:15 1 3
bbc
I find it odd that the ONS data issued September/October time showed that the infection rate was high in senior schools (also in universities and workplaces), but we then get this report, which as this poster says seems to be very selective with the figures it wants to use.

What's the real agenda here?
556
15/02/2021 18:16:55 2 1
bbc
Why all the current restrictions? Search me. Oh, perhaps it was panicking governments starting with Italy copying a totalitiarian Chinese response. Sweden - a pariah precisely because they didn't panic, never closed schools/bars/shops; advised WFH, introuced social distancing. Less deaths per capita than UK/Belgium/Spain & arguably France - a fraction of the collateral damage that we have to face.
658
15/02/2021 18:35:08 0 1
bbc
They talking bs again. When my 9 year old went back within a month a quarter of class was missing at 1 time. I used to ask her weekly anyone else off school this week and was always 1 or 2. May have been just because someone in family had test for some but a full class went to 70% attendance quite quick. Was staggered pock up times but parents from different households congregate and walk together
681
15/02/2021 18:38:10 0 1
bbc
Oh and if a child that sits next to mine is off school due to himself or family member having a test or symptoms the child either side still goes on. If they have a cough cold symptoms they go in. Just before xmas kids took board games in and they rotated around Class as much as they wanted playing games. Schools gave up on social distancing on younger kids as soon as they went back September
6
15/02/2021 16:13:16 316 85
bbc
30 people indoors, in a relatively small space, for quite a length of time and where social distancing is virtually impossible...is this allowed under covid regulations?

The above is a description of a school classroom full of pupils.
37
Ben
15/02/2021 16:24:07 14 9
bbc
Different age groups have different viral loads, the less sick you get the less virus you likely have to shed. This isn't always the case but there would be loads of cases in schools amongst teachers if the non-socially distanced kids you talk about spread it considerably. This study has found teachers aren't getting sick which would be the case if what you said was true.
494
15/02/2021 18:04:45 3 3
bbc
Well from my experience it isn’t true, a couple of friends got Covid the first day they went back into school as teacher and teaching assistant after Christmas after isolating throughout the holidays
604
15/02/2021 18:25:23 3 3
bbc
Not sure about these numbers, local infant school where my wife works had 13 teachers infected at one time, even with the classroom bubbles, the thing is kids don't always show symptoms but still carry a full viral load.
935
15/02/2021 19:24:25 3 2
bbc
As you seem so confident why don’t you put yourself in a classroom with 5 different classes of 30 students each day. We are not wearing the same PPE as hospital staff and there is no 2m distancing between students. I am still teaching all my lessons every day and am up working until 11pm most nights to try and deliver the best education we can under the circumstances.
38
15/02/2021 16:24:18 12 5
bbc
I see the BBC are still pulling out "evidence" like a rabbit out of a magic hat
46
15/02/2021 16:26:46 6 3
bbc
University of Warwick - reported by the BBC. Please keep up - it shouldn't be that difficult to follow the research.
16
Bob
15/02/2021 16:17:15 8 3
bbc
But it wasn't limited to just pupils.

Additionally the pupils would still be off school if they were spreading it to parents etc as they would need to isolate once they became infected.
39
15/02/2021 16:24:35 1 1
bbc
Bob you raise a good point. The issue is there are delays. If it takes 5 days to get infected, the kid can get it and then pass it on to the parents who then after 5 days gets it. The result is that it could have been bouncing around for almost 10 days before it becomes visible. That is 10 days of potential transmission. It then becomes like whack a mole as you are constantly catching up
40
15/02/2021 16:24:47 57 12
bbc
As ever, missing the point. Unless school staff are vaccinated and infection rates lower, we’re going to be straight back into the demoralising and chaotic cycle of bubble closures, self-isolating and remote education. It’s all well and good getting children back in school, but we need them to stay there!
309
15/02/2021 17:25:16 19 21
bbc
Under 25's rarely become ill with Covid, and in a recent US study, asymptomatic transmission was found to be less than a 1% chance inside households.
So it's unlikely schools have much of a roll to play.
This study shows most infections occur inside health settings.
555
15/02/2021 18:16:45 1 1
bbc
For it to work not only school staff need to be vaccinated. It has to be the parents and possibly even the children - hence the studies on the latter. So far no country has yet solved the problem. Perhaps Israel is the closest to testing it.
19
Bob
15/02/2021 16:18:08 13 24
bbc
As you say they can catch it and pass it on to their family.

When they do they would then have to isolate. Guess what that means? An absence.
41
15/02/2021 16:25:13 6 4
bbc
after 5-10 days of spreading it.
217
Bob
15/02/2021 17:04:35 4 4
bbc
What has the incubation time got to do with it? You are still marked absent. Whether that's because of what happened 1, 5, 10 or 100 days prior is irrelevant.
13
15/02/2021 16:15:34 72 6
bbc
"no evidence".. sounds familiar..
42
15/02/2021 16:25:36 97 121
bbc
We need to get the kids back to school ASAP.

Will it cause more infections - probably.

Will it cause more deaths - probably a few but far far less due to the success of the vaccine roll out.

Is it worth the risk for the future opportunities of 19 million children - absolutely.
141
15/02/2021 16:48:37 15 17
bbc
No child's future is at all affected. If they are lazy to learn at home or have bad parents they do when in schools disrupting everyone else too!

The good will have got on far better not in a school. Any pretending they could not, will have been school failures as well but top of the class at whinging.
143
15/02/2021 16:49:14 15 9
bbc
No worries about a few more deaths then. Those people and their families can take comfort in children not having the opportunity to socialise. Not like most children have instant messaging, chat features over gaming consoles or are mixing together in the street...
223
15/02/2021 17:06:20 17 10
bbc
I work in a school IT Support. You happy putting my life at risk? You know what you can do!
257
15/02/2021 17:15:17 13 5
bbc
Not if your one of the unlucky ones that dies because you caught Covid from a child. How do you balance the death of an adult against the schooling of a child.
279
15/02/2021 17:18:48 13 8
bbc
You have no common sense
290
15/02/2021 17:21:44 8 12
bbc
A lot of selfish boomers downvoting this very logical comment.
We have given a single jab which gives a very low level of protection

Amazingly we are behind even France when it comes to giving a 2nd jab and so the full dose

Schools are superspreaders

Parents and associated families who have only had 1 jab are at risk from this decision

An extra few months of remote learning wont harm anyones future prospects but rushing schools will sadly cost many lives
423
15/02/2021 17:51:56 10 6
bbc
Brave keyboard warriors like you should show us the way - you go and help in a Covid infested place. Put your life where you mouth is. I bet you won't as people like you are about other people being in harms way. Like an internet version of the General in Blackadder goes Forth
432
15/02/2021 17:50:01 6 4
bbc
Someone else who wants to get down the pub, I’m alright Jack comes to mind.
467
15/02/2021 18:00:05 7 3
bbc
You ok putting your family up for sacrifice first then yeah?
516
15/02/2021 18:09:28 4 4
bbc
Greece tried it. They were all in school 2 weeks then all back home again as the infection rate had taken off. Are you wanting another lockdown?
691
15/02/2021 18:40:12 3 1
bbc
As a teacher I’d say this ‘loss’ is purposely overstated by the govt and media as a justification to restart the economy - which honestly I think is fair enough. Plenty of people who had little to no education due to war etc. have managed just fine, it’s not the end of the world.

Also misconception - none of my students have missed out, they have as much work and tuition as ever.
742
15/02/2021 18:48:07 0 3
bbc
Yes, but lets get the kids back to school so transmission is reduced. Staggered starts, reduce movement around schools, reduce number of kids in each class, increase the size of classrooms..... All costs money but probably less than our world beating test trace.
836
15/02/2021 19:13:36 2 2
bbc
Probably isn’t good enough??
The UK’s reckless approach to coronavirus has caused more deaths, more economic damage and more loss of time in schools.

Reckless full opening of all schools is just more of the same.
953
15/02/2021 19:42:49 1 1
bbc
Not if all the studies are true, and there are plenty, under 10 and they catch it from adults, not even from their peers.
15/02/2021 22:09:36 1 0
bbc
School is a miserable experience in these times. They should go back when it is deemed safe for them to play with friends, use the play equipment and sing. Not before. And these things should be the focus for primary kids. European kids start school 2 years later and still outperform UK kids in PISA tests. Time to change the rhetoric.
16/02/2021 09:46:07 0 0
bbc
Sad state of affairs that you have more down votes than up votes.
16/02/2021 18:16:26 0 0
bbc
Just what risk is there to their future? Schools might have closed, but education has continued for the vast majority.
43
15/02/2021 16:25:39 8 6
bbc
There is no evidence that Hancock has a brain-cell.
25
15/02/2021 16:20:03 2 3
bbc
He'll be telling Boris he knew this already, at next pmqs
44
15/02/2021 16:26:18 1 1
bbc
He'll tell Boris. Then Boris will deny it. Then two weeks later Boris will announce what Starmer already told him. And repeat.
35
15/02/2021 16:20:27 9 19
bbc
This was well established many months ago.

The honest and decent among us have been saying almost from the start that all students, except the very few vulnerable, should be in school, and that exams should never have been cancelled.

The toll on kid's education, and mental health, is truly immense. Yet even now, with 15 million vaccinated, Boris obstinately refuses to do the what's right.
45
15/02/2021 16:26:22 10 8
bbc
I supose you believe in a flat earth as well.
76
15/02/2021 16:35:31 0 4
bbc
Take it you haven't got kids then, bet you're happy to walk around the supermarket, I don't see the likes of you demanding they close down. Sheep
88
15/02/2021 16:40:03 0 0
bbc
Yes actually.
38
15/02/2021 16:24:18 12 5
bbc
I see the BBC are still pulling out "evidence" like a rabbit out of a magic hat
46
15/02/2021 16:26:46 6 3
bbc
University of Warwick - reported by the BBC. Please keep up - it shouldn't be that difficult to follow the research.
879
15/02/2021 19:21:53 0 0
bbc
If that is the best the University of Warwick can come up with then we really are in trouble. This smacks of an under-graduate going into the computer room on campus at 8pm with a pizza box under the arm and starting an assignment due in the next morning.
19
Bob
15/02/2021 16:18:08 13 24
bbc
As you say they can catch it and pass it on to their family.

When they do they would then have to isolate. Guess what that means? An absence.
47
15/02/2021 16:26:55 15 3
bbc
Not necessarily. It could well be a child becomes infected at school and is asymptomatic. They pass it on to a parent who then also become infected, but maybe also asymptomatic. They then go to work and pass it on to a colleague who develops symptoms. The child in question would have had no absence from school in this case.
224
Bob
15/02/2021 17:06:26 5 1
bbc
Correct. But that's why it compares sectors and the whole community. Teachers and parents do not possess a special ability to be more asymptomatic than their peers, hence you would see the same effects elsewhere.
48
15/02/2021 16:27:00 62 10
bbc
So why do I hear about the R rate going up by 0.3-0.6 if schools are opened?
204
15/02/2021 17:01:13 21 14
bbc
because more people can go to work or the shops or mingle at the school gate ?
314
Bob
15/02/2021 17:26:51 2 0
bbc
Because you'd see the same or similar numbers if you were talking about hospitality or working in offices etc.

Remember the natural R is above 3 & that was based on the initial virus before the more transmissible Spanish variant from summer and the then even more transmissible Kent variant this winter so if you add your 0.3 to the current R what does that tell you? Other measures do more too.
683
15/02/2021 18:38:28 3 1
bbc
source?
In spring when they closed schools first because 'everybody knows' it spreads in schools, they found negligible impact on virus spread.
995
15/02/2021 19:49:32 1 0
bbc
because you listen to Covid Cultists who couldn't even work out the BBC graph a week or so ago showing that the Xmas lock-down was a new Xmas miracle, it flattening the curve 3 days after being introduced, truly a miracle given the incubation period is longer than 3 days.
15/02/2021 20:31:42 1 0
bbc
Whenever anyone talks about the R rate going up by X if schools are opened, it's basically a guess. The scientific evidence is still frustratingly vague on whether school closures are even effective against flu, and that's much older and more thoroughly studied than Covid-19.
8
15/02/2021 16:14:18 10 10
bbc
This. The very obvious, top priority move would be to vaccinate the teachers and open schools.
But the government, as usual, is doing everything backwards.
49
15/02/2021 16:27:13 3 1
bbc
The very obvious to everyone apart from the scientists on the JCVI you mean.
6
15/02/2021 16:13:16 316 85
bbc
30 people indoors, in a relatively small space, for quite a length of time and where social distancing is virtually impossible...is this allowed under covid regulations?

The above is a description of a school classroom full of pupils.
50
15/02/2021 16:27:22 18 10
bbc
With the success of the vaccine roll out lines like this are becoming more difficult to sell.

Yes it will cause a few thousand more cases and deaths but worth it for the futures of millions of children.
51
15/02/2021 16:27:26 45 17
bbc
BBC journalism drops to new lows, don't they bother to research anything, or are they just repeating what their political masters tell them.
824
Jim
15/02/2021 19:10:06 2 3
bbc
It seemed to me that school was a good place for measuring the general spread of Covid but did not seem to actually play a major part in spreading it. All of the cases that got reported did not seem to cause other cases in the same class / bubble but were all independent.
52
tv
15/02/2021 16:23:04 122 13
bbc
A dangerously misleading story. They can’t say due to a lack of evidence. We’ll keep researching please!
242
Bob
15/02/2021 17:11:19 22 32
bbc
So continue to look at the same data until that data magically transforms into completely new numbers that happen to support your point of view?

You better send them over some LSD or something.
930
15/02/2021 19:36:46 3 0
bbc
Wow close down the planet, until we have evidence of anything!
16/02/2021 18:54:22 0 0
bbc
Now that will be down to the media's interpretation of the report rather than what the report itself says. I understand the authors are non-too pleased about how this has been reported.
35
15/02/2021 16:20:27 9 19
bbc
This was well established many months ago.

The honest and decent among us have been saying almost from the start that all students, except the very few vulnerable, should be in school, and that exams should never have been cancelled.

The toll on kid's education, and mental health, is truly immense. Yet even now, with 15 million vaccinated, Boris obstinately refuses to do the what's right.
53
15/02/2021 16:27:40 2 1
bbc
The kids will be back 8/3 when the vulnerable people who've just had their jab will be protected.
54
Bob
15/02/2021 16:28:29 72 9
bbc
No evidence that my cat hates me but I think it's true
92
15/02/2021 16:40:33 33 4
bbc
There's a guy who works down the chip-shop swears his Elvis.
963
15/02/2021 19:43:45 0 1
bbc
No it loves you, but it is probably sick with covid so isolating itself -at least that is one cat that hasn't got 'blood on its paws!'
55
15/02/2021 16:24:45 5 15
bbc
Keep the lockdown until the virus is all but gone, this has worked for other countries and shouldn't be too hard for us to have worked out by now, instead we are going to rely on vaccines which have no proven effectiveness over new strains which are bound to develop if we re-open the country.
69
15/02/2021 16:33:52 7 2
bbc
So, your thinking is this: completely destroy the economy, eradicate all human rights of freedom of movement, the right to an education, to socialise, to work etc. To eradicate a virus which will never go away. I suggest we look at natural herd immunity, combined with a vaccine for those who are vulnerable, and look at reducing the morbidity factors linking being ill with covid and dying
136
15/02/2021 16:47:37 0 2
bbc
On that logic we're in prison forever. It'll never be gone.
24
15/02/2021 16:19:51 1 1
bbc
Suprised there is no evidence one way or the other. Could this be due when a child has symptoms they are more likely to have been told to self isolate rather than get tested? Hopefully on the next return there will be more testing, for the child, their family and staff, so that definitive information one way or the other can be obtained.
56
15/02/2021 16:29:07 0 2
bbc
*surprised - education?
57
15/02/2021 16:29:33 9 2
bbc
How would they know, schools have only been part filled. Just front line workers kids.
448
RPH
15/02/2021 17:56:43 2 0
bbc
..and venerable kids, and key worker's kids, and kids without a suitable learning environment at home: I've got 19 out of 30 of my class in. Let's just get them back in .....
58
MJH
15/02/2021 16:29:34 427 104
bbc
The view from inside schools was of covid rampaging through them from Sept-Dec.

In the first lockdown, schools were closed, so the infection rate came right down.

During the second lockdown schools remained open, so the infection rate actually went up. But they said it was a different strain?

Same strain during third lockdown, but schools closed, so the rate tumbled down again.

Rocket science?
63
15/02/2021 16:31:44 144 55
bbc
Exactly!!!! Thank you for saving me the need to write this.
64
15/02/2021 16:32:22 29 44
bbc
Obviously got no kids missing education then.
148
Bob
15/02/2021 16:50:02 60 20
bbc
You have misunderstood the study. It compares across sectors to weed out this exact type of twaddle.

If schools were the starting block for cases then absences would trend higher ahead of other sectors. No such thing could be found.
If schools were worse for cases then absences would be higher than other sectors. No such thing could be found.

Cases fell because *everything* is shut down.
165
15/02/2021 16:55:28 37 21
bbc
So you are another armchair scientist
199
15/02/2021 17:00:32 0 10
bbc
Rocket?
225
15/02/2021 17:06:27 27 2
bbc
correlation not causation?
320
15/02/2021 17:23:59 45 33
bbc
The spike in September was also soon after school went back. It would be a remarkable coincidence for schools not to have been a significant contributory factor.

It seems the 'science' is being made to fit the political agenda.
334
15/02/2021 17:31:43 25 7
bbc
Third lockdown i.e. late December it's much, much more likely that the general hard lockdown reduced rates. 2nd lockdown in November rates fell despite schools being open.

Scientific papers and analyses inc from Scotland support no convincing evidence that schools are major transmission sources. Infections in staff are mainly staff to staff with few student to staff.
366
15/02/2021 17:41:49 8 4
bbc
What an utter load of twaddle. If only there was a vaccine to prevent comments like this!
487
Mg
15/02/2021 18:03:42 7 1
bbc
Not in my school. Where is your evidence for “COVID rampaging through [schools]”? Produce it or retract your statement.
540
15/02/2021 18:13:40 5 1
bbc
I find it odd that the ONS data issued September/October time showed that the infection rate was high in senior schools (also in universities and workplaces), but we then get this report, which as this poster says seems to be very selective with the figures it wants to use.
574
15/02/2021 18:20:07 0 0
bbc
My local takeaways was open for the second lockdown and closed for the current one due to going bankrupt
I guess that means they were spreading the viruses then?
612
15/02/2021 18:26:28 3 0
bbc
I thought the point being made was that rates of.infection in school appeared to reflect community infection rates i.e. did not appear to be a significant accelerate to infection. Schools have to open sometime and as a society we are going to have to.learn to.live with COVID for years.
644
15/02/2021 18:32:31 2 1
bbc
That is what I was thinking. Notice the report says that children were no more likely to be ill. It says nothing about them being, "vectors of transmission"
709
15/02/2021 18:43:34 1 3
bbc
The view from inside schools was of covid rampaging through them from Sept-Dec... at least that's what the staffroom said as they fancied a couple of extra months of holiday
726
15/02/2021 18:45:32 0 0
bbc
I look at the stats from my LGD as evidence, population roughly 180k.

Under 20's accounted for a grand total of 22 cases between February and 1st September. That same figure from 1st September to schools closing in October was 758.

An increase of 3,345% over 6 weeks.

For perspective, all age ranges accounted for 332 cases up to 1st September.

That same 6 week period rose by 5,032 or 1,415%.
776
15/02/2021 18:55:10 0 0
bbc
"During the second lockdown schools remained open, so the infection rate actually went up. But they said it was a different strain?"

Case rate Nov 4th 24,000 and rising
Case rate Dec 2nd 16,000 and falling

It isn't "rocket science" it's called looking the figures up yourself and discovering you're wrong or lying, the figures are here:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
5
15/02/2021 16:13:11 81 4
bbc
All a bit wishy washy this one, no evidence and so on, not certain, its a political decision. I have to ask then, if there is such a lack of evidence in school place based transmission, why have the schools be closed for so long?
59
15/02/2021 16:29:50 61 11
bbc
Infection rates have steadily fallen since schools were partially closed again last month
262
15/02/2021 17:15:41 6 2
bbc
Having spiked over Christmas when...yep, schools were closed.
363
S
15/02/2021 17:41:12 4 1
bbc
Arghhh.... correlation not causation....

Just so happens, at exactly the same time, we had a national lockdown on all of society. The only way your statement would actually hold any water is if schools were the only places that was closed!
528
15/02/2021 18:12:05 2 0
bbc
Helped by the fact that many key workers have had the vacination therefore any children picking it up in school do not infect the parents.
674
15/02/2021 18:36:42 0 1
bbc
nothing else was closed at the same time, so it is perfectly designed to prove your hypothesis
981
15/02/2021 19:46:56 0 2
bbc
Simple answer , stop letting all those very old very sick people attend school.
33
Ben
15/02/2021 16:22:39 278 79
bbc
This is nonsense. There's an absence of evidence that schools spread Covid, therefore schools don't spread Covid, is the weakest of weak arguments.

Look at a graph of Covid peaks in the uk.

Look at when schools were open.

Amazingly, they match. Doesn't mean one causes the other but as Paul Hunter from UEA said in May, closing schools is the MOST effective tool to suppress the virus.
60
15/02/2021 16:30:42 116 38
bbc
Look at the graph of coronavirus peaks in the UK. Lower cases in months that do not have an "r" in them (May, June, July, August). Amazingly, they match.
Stay alert. Change the calendar. Save lives
171
15/02/2021 16:56:11 9 9
bbc
You are wrong. The start of the climb to the peaks in the graphs actually coincides with holidays - Feb half term (Alps skiing holiday returners) and Summer Holidays (Spanish costa del sol returners) The problem has always been we did not close our borders. Aircraft spread a lot of the virus. Nothing to do with schools being open.
187
15/02/2021 16:58:46 12 0
bbc
Perfectly logical, months without an "r" in them are usually the hottest, highest uv and driest, and that is what reduces Covid transmission.
680
15/02/2021 18:37:47 0 1
bbc
Exactly! When schools remained open and everything else closed in November there was a tiny barely discernible drop in cases. Schools are the super spreaders of the disease.
28
15/02/2021 16:20:49 4 4
bbc
Fed by science but then anti-lockdown people are driven by their hurty feelings not science. 30 people inside with a respiratory illness is a vector for infection. Fact not feelings.
61
15/02/2021 16:31:24 2 6
bbc
Could you provide a link to any peer reviewed research that conclusively proves that lockdown provides any significant benefit over and above that of social distancing? It is precisely the lack of 'science' that makes those that think rather than those that just listen to the scaremongers sceptical about lockdown.
6
15/02/2021 16:13:16 316 85
bbc
30 people indoors, in a relatively small space, for quite a length of time and where social distancing is virtually impossible...is this allowed under covid regulations?

The above is a description of a school classroom full of pupils.
62
15/02/2021 16:31:43 30 12
bbc
Fine let's keep them closed till there is no risk at all then. Let's let down the kids from broken homes, who view school as their only outlet. I'm not in a high risk group, but if I was i'd happily stay in lockdown if I thought it meant kids could continue to have a happy childhood. Childhood is incredible short and a year is a lifetime when you are child. Makes you question who are being selfish
202
15/02/2021 17:01:04 9 5
bbc
Are you proposing we should actually invest in, and prioritise, the children of the country?

In case you hadn't noticed, in the UK children are bottom of every pile when it comes to priorities. They are too young to defend themselves and vote, so are ignored.

Just read some of the posts on this HYS if you don't believe me that these attitudes exist, and are quite widespread, in this country.
700
15/02/2021 18:41:42 4 0
bbc
A year is a lot for those who are retired and nearing the end and / or terminally ill. How about them? How about middle aged fold who have been forced to put life plans on hold and not have kids in a pandemic. Same. One group is not more special than the other, we are all struggling through this in our own way and the more we pull together and get it over with the better.
58
MJH
15/02/2021 16:29:34 427 104
bbc
The view from inside schools was of covid rampaging through them from Sept-Dec.

In the first lockdown, schools were closed, so the infection rate came right down.

During the second lockdown schools remained open, so the infection rate actually went up. But they said it was a different strain?

Same strain during third lockdown, but schools closed, so the rate tumbled down again.

Rocket science?
63
15/02/2021 16:31:44 144 55
bbc
Exactly!!!! Thank you for saving me the need to write this.
58
MJH
15/02/2021 16:29:34 427 104
bbc
The view from inside schools was of covid rampaging through them from Sept-Dec.

In the first lockdown, schools were closed, so the infection rate came right down.

During the second lockdown schools remained open, so the infection rate actually went up. But they said it was a different strain?

Same strain during third lockdown, but schools closed, so the rate tumbled down again.

Rocket science?
64
15/02/2021 16:32:22 29 44
bbc
Obviously got no kids missing education then.
177
15/02/2021 16:56:34 63 35
bbc
No kids in England are “missing education”. They are being taught differently to what they are used to. I am still teaching live lessons for over 20 hours a week, my students are not missing their education. They may be missing the social side for their mental health, but please don’t get these things confused.
383
cba
15/02/2021 17:44:26 3 0
bbc
Yes but also have a life I want to keep
578
15/02/2021 18:20:26 3 1
bbc
So we are supposed to ignore tens of thousands dying because kids are being difficult at home?
65
evz
15/02/2021 16:32:32 3 3
bbc
Those working in schools already knew this!
66
TDK
15/02/2021 16:33:19 5 0
bbc
Not so long ago, Johnson identified them as 'vectors for infection'. Then shut them.
67
oie
15/02/2021 16:30:01 6 14
bbc
Then get the kids back to school now and stop damaging their futures.
68
15/02/2021 16:30:46 70 12
bbc
"Covid: 'No evidence' schools spread lots of coronavirus"

What truly god unbelievable headline

Come on bbc

What the hell is that headline supposed to do

Because it is in no way informative

What the hell is lot's of Coronavirus?

And "no evidence" doesn't mean schools don't spread covid

Just absolutely awful journalism

The bbc are seriously letting the country down in it's our of need
95
15/02/2021 16:41:06 23 9
bbc
Wait until you find out what the Government have been up to.......
185
Bob
15/02/2021 16:58:31 4 1
bbc
I hope you never sit on a jury.

GUILTY!
'But there's no evidence to support the claim...'
GUILTY!
'They've given us all the data and it just isn't there...'
GUILTY!
294
15/02/2021 17:22:15 2 0
bbc
They’ve been educating the kids during lockdown 3. What have any other media outlets done?
16/02/2021 00:58:21 0 0
bbc
This was my thought too.... do the Beeboids get paid per article 'commit'.....?
What is 'lots'? when we talk about a 'patient zero' blah blah blah....then 1 more person being infected is too many.
55
15/02/2021 16:24:45 5 15
bbc
Keep the lockdown until the virus is all but gone, this has worked for other countries and shouldn't be too hard for us to have worked out by now, instead we are going to rely on vaccines which have no proven effectiveness over new strains which are bound to develop if we re-open the country.
69
15/02/2021 16:33:52 7 2
bbc
So, your thinking is this: completely destroy the economy, eradicate all human rights of freedom of movement, the right to an education, to socialise, to work etc. To eradicate a virus which will never go away. I suggest we look at natural herd immunity, combined with a vaccine for those who are vulnerable, and look at reducing the morbidity factors linking being ill with covid and dying
82
15/02/2021 16:38:44 1 1
bbc
You have hit the nail squarely on the head
89
15/02/2021 16:40:06 2 1
bbc
Point to a country that has had a far more severe lockdown than we have had and tell us if they have completely destroyed their economy etc.

Yeah, you can't, because it hasn't happened, and it would not happen here either.

But we could get the incidence of Covid-19 down to single figures and reopen the country and start rebuilding.

Well, we could if it weren't for people like you.
100
lsg
15/02/2021 16:42:00 2 1
bbc
So you're quite happy for people to die then with your herd immunity theory? Idiotic comment
22
DbD
15/02/2021 16:18:52 7 3
bbc
I wish they'd do more research. Highly likely the amount of covid spread by playing golf/tennis/fishing outside as been 0 but all those activities get shut down with everything else. Shutting stuff down needlessly is helping no one.
70
15/02/2021 16:33:56 5 3
bbc
It's not the activities. It's the people partaking in them. A significant amount of whom seem to think they are above the rules and guidance laid out and therefore do not social distance, don't wear masks, don't wash hands whilst partaking in such activities as golf, tennis, etc. where they may/do come into contact with other people.

We should have shut down a lot more this time last year...
163
DbD
15/02/2021 16:55:17 0 2
bbc
Well if that is the case the research would show it and we should keep them closed. However if it doesn't we can open them up.
300
15/02/2021 17:23:36 0 0
bbc
And professional footie - especially!
71
15/02/2021 16:34:17 13 3
bbc
Dangerously misleading headline, the only thing this study proves is that "Absences matched infection rates in the wider community," and given that we know young people are far more likely to be completely asymptomatic absences should in fact be lower.... which they aren't.
72
Rob
15/02/2021 16:34:35 56 9
bbc
This is yet another example of 'expert' analysis that is food for the kind of idiots who caused the second spike in the first place. All they did was look at the number of sick days taken, and then compare it with local infection rates. The two are not comparable. They did not conduct proper research, measuring infection rates in school and comparing infection rates out of school.
887
15/02/2021 19:16:06 10 1
bbc
Absolutely agree
15/02/2021 20:02:14 1 1
bbc
There was no 'second spike' it was the flu season, or do you think the 'idiots' you talk of hibernated along with the virus all summer. Seasonal virus + Flu Season = illness
73
15/02/2021 16:31:35 3 7
bbc
Oh dear what will Labour & their union masters moan about now? They were desperate for them to choose. Now desperate for them to reopen. Typical flip flop from the bandwagon party.
What a waste of a life. At least contribute like an adult, but to just troll for a political party is just a sad. I bet your mum is proud of you. Removed
74
15/02/2021 16:35:20 3 2
bbc
If there was truly no evidence that school children spread Covid 19 to parents and elderly grand parents, schools would be open by now.
75
15/02/2021 16:35:29 6 6
bbc
Bbc propaganda seekers out garbage report of no evidence & tries on creating a fake & false news headline. Guess the bbc is full of staff wanting to dump their child at the first opportunity!

Everyone knows schools are as good as designed to spread diseases. Along with nits! Bad attitude herd based congregation & returning out far & wide after a day jailed in a confined space is aid for virus.
142
15/02/2021 16:49:04 0 1
bbc
The BBC are simply reporting on study published by the University of Warwick.
45
15/02/2021 16:26:22 10 8
bbc
I supose you believe in a flat earth as well.
76
15/02/2021 16:35:31 0 4
bbc
Take it you haven't got kids then, bet you're happy to walk around the supermarket, I don't see the likes of you demanding they close down. Sheep
117
15/02/2021 16:42:38 1 5
bbc
Not sheep, just incredibly selfish people who simply don't care about the immense damage being done to young people. I'm sure most of them have convinced themselves that kids are really enjoying an extended holiday. Myself, the teachers, and the doctors, who very regularly report this damage, are all lying. Though what we gain from such lies eludes me: I have no kids, by the way.
77
15/02/2021 16:35:59 5 7
bbc
Open schools now before the NHS is overwhelmed with mental health issues. Apparently mental health is the most under-strain part of NHS paeds.
158
15/02/2021 16:53:51 1 0
bbc
Fake modern fad ,mental health' is exactly not any mental illness ever needing any nhs treatment. That is why they can't pretend there is any mental illness and lie about 'mental health' a# though it were real or any illness.

It’s just life. Not being ecstatic every second of their infantile lives is not any mental health issue. It is what life is, grow up and get used to it.
78
15/02/2021 16:32:59 4 7
bbc
Covid: 'No evidence' schools spread lots of coronavirus

Over 700 teaching staff have died of covid already

One of them only 25 year's old

That headline is almost as if the bbc just don't care

What the hell have we allowed this country to become
118
oie
15/02/2021 16:43:06 2 2
bbc
Snowflakes.
127
15/02/2021 16:46:09 0 1
bbc
We have become a country happy to sell our children down-river. And died WITH Covid. Not of Covid. Big difference.
138
15/02/2021 16:48:09 2 0
bbc
Where on earth do you get your statistics from? The latest data from the ONS gives a figure of 139 teaching deaths in England and Wales between 9 March and 28 Dec 2020.
179
15/02/2021 16:56:54 1 0
bbc
Made up statistics? The reports say teachers are at no extra death rate than anyone else. They are not important in this issue. The act of schooling is a huge virus transmitter. Obviously. Herd based gathering behaviour.
79
15/02/2021 16:36:51 4 4
bbc
When they tested 10,000 students with the lateral flow test, only 4 came back positive. After the 2nd test, there were no positives. Even SAGE are admitting the PCR test is too sensitive to differentiate between having a trace of Covid and being infectious. Nearly a year too late mind you.
Testing people for something 99.7% do not have or suffer from to stop them living free lives is madness.
91
15/02/2021 16:39:11 1 0
bbc
You appear not to know the meaning of living free
103
15/02/2021 16:42:38 0 0
bbc
Well my partner had full covid symptoms and had two negative PCR tests before the third told us all what we knew already.
80
15/02/2021 16:37:06 8 2
bbc
No evidence? I was recently working in a school where most of the staff got covid at the same time. Both myself and my partner got covid back in November and we're both teachers.
109
oie
15/02/2021 16:41:46 0 0
bbc
Very scientific. And you are a teacher?
114
15/02/2021 16:44:35 0 0
bbc
No one knows where Covid spreads. You may have caught it in the supermarket. No one knows.
162
15/02/2021 16:55:11 1 0
bbc
You went back to school in September and you caught it in November? If schools were the big breeding ground you say they are, you would have caught in September. We should be looking at eat out to help out, the month before which probably caused the surge in September. So maybe it was us adults passing it on to the kids??
81
15/02/2021 16:38:14 48 8
bbc
There is a wealth of evidence subjecting hospitality doesn’t spread ‘lots’ of Coronavirus either but I guess that doesn’t suit the narrative....
388
15/02/2021 17:46:19 17 9
bbc
There's a wealth of evidence for just about everything that goes against the one truth narrative we've been fed.
But try finding it debated anywhere inside the MSM.
The stifling of alternative views has been the worst aspect of this whole farrago and has done the Nation a great disservice.
449
15/02/2021 17:56:48 0 1
bbc
especially if you eat a scotch egg
69
15/02/2021 16:33:52 7 2
bbc
So, your thinking is this: completely destroy the economy, eradicate all human rights of freedom of movement, the right to an education, to socialise, to work etc. To eradicate a virus which will never go away. I suggest we look at natural herd immunity, combined with a vaccine for those who are vulnerable, and look at reducing the morbidity factors linking being ill with covid and dying
82
15/02/2021 16:38:44 1 1
bbc
You have hit the nail squarely on the head
15
15/02/2021 16:16:39 15 7
bbc
The main priority that matters and should always matter in the eyes of the teaching unions is the safety of the teachers.
83
15/02/2021 16:38:58 1 3
bbc
But they have their own political agenda. Bausted has always been a communist. I used to travel to school with her on a bus and she was the same at that age as she is now. Anti everybody but herself.
84
15/02/2021 16:39:01 2 0
bbc
If I was still at school I would've licked my hand and slapped my pal, covid-tag.
85
15/02/2021 16:36:35 25 4
bbc
I could barely read the article, as it had so much spin.

The crucial lines are

“We are not saying there is no risk.
"It's an absence of evidence."

So in other words, ‘we have no evidence to back up our opinions but here are our opinions’
5
15/02/2021 16:13:11 81 4
bbc
All a bit wishy washy this one, no evidence and so on, not certain, its a political decision. I have to ask then, if there is such a lack of evidence in school place based transmission, why have the schools be closed for so long?
86
Bob
15/02/2021 16:39:17 5 0
bbc
No one claimed children or schools don't transmit it. Just they are much less likely to do so. That's the claim.

Why closed? High cases in community. If you have a die & I said 'roll a 6' you've less chance of that than if I said 'roll an odd num'. If I give you 10 dice & said any dice can be the 6 or any dice can be odd your chances increase. But in line with each other.
26
15/02/2021 16:20:36 3 15
bbc
We need to re-open schools soon. Ive sat with the grandkids whilst they do the home school and they learn nothing. 1 of them was being taught weights, He's 8, the teacher asked him how much he weighed, he said 4 and a half foot. The teacher didnt even correct him. Useless.
87
15/02/2021 16:39:29 1 0
bbc
Anyone who thinks primary school ages kids can teach themselves in front of a laptop is a muppet.
45
15/02/2021 16:26:22 10 8
bbc
I supose you believe in a flat earth as well.
88
15/02/2021 16:40:03 0 0
bbc
Yes actually.
69
15/02/2021 16:33:52 7 2
bbc
So, your thinking is this: completely destroy the economy, eradicate all human rights of freedom of movement, the right to an education, to socialise, to work etc. To eradicate a virus which will never go away. I suggest we look at natural herd immunity, combined with a vaccine for those who are vulnerable, and look at reducing the morbidity factors linking being ill with covid and dying
89
15/02/2021 16:40:06 2 1
bbc
Point to a country that has had a far more severe lockdown than we have had and tell us if they have completely destroyed their economy etc.

Yeah, you can't, because it hasn't happened, and it would not happen here either.

But we could get the incidence of Covid-19 down to single figures and reopen the country and start rebuilding.

Well, we could if it weren't for people like you.
31
15/02/2021 16:22:32 47 12
bbc
Schools cant spread it, children do!
90
15/02/2021 16:40:07 24 19
bbc
Why are we all still going to work then? Work can't spread it adults do! So your point is?
263
15/02/2021 17:15:56 3 3
bbc
Primarily Adult interactions provide the opportunity for transmission.

The science has consistently been suggesting that young children have a much lower chance of transmission.

The main place of transmission in schools seems to be the adults - parents at the school gate and the teachers.

Schools have a bigger importance overall.
286
15/02/2021 17:21:02 5 1
bbc
Keep adults working from home ?
79
15/02/2021 16:36:51 4 4
bbc
When they tested 10,000 students with the lateral flow test, only 4 came back positive. After the 2nd test, there were no positives. Even SAGE are admitting the PCR test is too sensitive to differentiate between having a trace of Covid and being infectious. Nearly a year too late mind you.
Testing people for something 99.7% do not have or suffer from to stop them living free lives is madness.
91
15/02/2021 16:39:11 1 0
bbc
You appear not to know the meaning of living free
54
Bob
15/02/2021 16:28:29 72 9
bbc
No evidence that my cat hates me but I think it's true
92
15/02/2021 16:40:33 33 4
bbc
There's a guy who works down the chip-shop swears his Elvis.
144
15/02/2021 16:49:14 4 6
bbc
There's a guy called Hancock who thinks he's a shepherd and you're all his little sheep
677
15/02/2021 18:37:32 1 1
bbc
That's actually true........
16/02/2021 18:16:56 0 0
bbc
And there is no evidence that he isn't!
93
15/02/2021 16:40:34 8 2
bbc
What a load of rubbish, rates increased when kids in school/college and down when not. They don't social distance in or at lunch times.
26
15/02/2021 16:20:36 3 15
bbc
We need to re-open schools soon. Ive sat with the grandkids whilst they do the home school and they learn nothing. 1 of them was being taught weights, He's 8, the teacher asked him how much he weighed, he said 4 and a half foot. The teacher didnt even correct him. Useless.
94
15/02/2021 16:40:57 0 0
bbc
I wouldn’t send him back to that school then
68
15/02/2021 16:30:46 70 12
bbc
"Covid: 'No evidence' schools spread lots of coronavirus"

What truly god unbelievable headline

Come on bbc

What the hell is that headline supposed to do

Because it is in no way informative

What the hell is lot's of Coronavirus?

And "no evidence" doesn't mean schools don't spread covid

Just absolutely awful journalism

The bbc are seriously letting the country down in it's our of need
95
15/02/2021 16:41:06 23 9
bbc
Wait until you find out what the Government have been up to.......
26
15/02/2021 16:20:36 3 15
bbc
We need to re-open schools soon. Ive sat with the grandkids whilst they do the home school and they learn nothing. 1 of them was being taught weights, He's 8, the teacher asked him how much he weighed, he said 4 and a half foot. The teacher didnt even correct him. Useless.
96
15/02/2021 16:41:07 1 0
bbc
You seriously imagine it is any different in the school classroom full of them? Schooling is appalling at education but great at free childcare, it’s the only reason any part of it is open!
97
15/02/2021 16:41:18 18 5
bbc
Why have we seen transmission rates fall both times we’ve shut schools?
105
15/02/2021 16:42:55 14 0
bbc
Schools aren't shut - they're 40% full.
111
15/02/2021 16:43:56 7 1
bbc
Partly because schools were closed when everything else did. When schools didn’t close in November, cases dropped.
196
15/02/2021 17:00:11 7 0
bbc
Everything else is shut as well ! Doh
98
15/02/2021 16:41:20 7 2
bbc
No evidence my god there trying to introduce masks in classrooms, and why was it when schools went back cases started rising, or is it the case the virus is seasonal and if this is the case no xmas again
99
15/02/2021 16:41:54 1 4
bbc
What is sad is most people on HYS couldn't give a monkeys about the kids. The kids who are suffering mentally. The kids who are losing out on their education. The kids who can't meet their mates. The kids who can't do sport. All for something that doesn't affect kids. Sad.
69
15/02/2021 16:33:52 7 2
bbc
So, your thinking is this: completely destroy the economy, eradicate all human rights of freedom of movement, the right to an education, to socialise, to work etc. To eradicate a virus which will never go away. I suggest we look at natural herd immunity, combined with a vaccine for those who are vulnerable, and look at reducing the morbidity factors linking being ill with covid and dying
100
lsg
15/02/2021 16:42:00 2 1
bbc
So you're quite happy for people to die then with your herd immunity theory? Idiotic comment