Plan for campus free speech post prompts autonomy warning
16/02/2021 | news | education | 744
Concerns are raised as ministers announce new free speech role to stop "silencing" in universities.
1
16/02/2021 14:21:38 6 9
bbc
Very welcome start.

However let’s not be fooled by this. When the people talk on line this government is evil in it's attitude to wanting free speech taken down, curtailed, prevented.
Removed
3
16/02/2021 14:20:32 9 15
bbc
Universities are a breeding ground for Leftist/Marxist Corbynista types.... I would have thought doing everything possible to silence students was beneficial.
27
16/02/2021 14:42:46 3 3
bbc
Don't forget that Bojo went to a left wing college at Oxford and had to hide his true colours his way to becoming head of Oxford Union. He continued this behaviour throughout the rest of his career.
28
16/02/2021 14:42:52 4 1
bbc
You appear to be someone who's only a fan of free speech if you agree with it, ie. not a fan at all.
46
16/02/2021 14:50:21 2 3
bbc
You're just spreading your ill-informed far-right propaganda, but at least you recognise the Tories are really about stifling free-speech!
4
16/02/2021 14:23:27 77 6
bbc
The censorship of anyone with different views should be unacceptable in any university. A major benefit of a university education is exposure to ideas that may be different from your own. Without such diversity of experiences graduates are less able to contribute to society once in the workplace. There is a real risk that future graduates will be unemployable.
16
16/02/2021 14:36:36 46 84
bbc
Sensible comment, but it won't be long before the far-right bots descend to attack anything they vaguely see as being left-wing.

My problem with the Tory Government interference is that what they are championing as free speech is no such thing. There is no legal right to spread hatred, racism, homophobia, or anything else the right like to use to divide society.
190
16/02/2021 15:50:33 19 2
bbc
As expected the main protagonists in shutting down free speech claim this measure is a green light for hate speech. They miss the point. It is not to allow hate speech, it is to stop such protagonists arbitrarily deciding what constitutes hate speech.
548
16/02/2021 21:40:05 2 5
bbc
Depends on what exactly those views may be. If someone has racist views that demean or incite harm to others because of their skin colour or race are you saying those views should be freely expressed just because they are being expressed in a university ?

"Different views" are fine for the most part, some views though can be dangerous to others & society & a uni shouldn't be a cover for that...
Removed
6
16/02/2021 14:25:39 28 18
bbc
ooooh look as soon as the left leaning establishments are threatened with views they dont like, they close ranks around their "autonomous" status.

no excuses woke worthies, you must be subject to the same laws as everyone else in society.
11
SCJ
16/02/2021 14:32:13 25 23
bbc
Except the 'left' don't have a monopoly do they ? Look at how the right wing press shout down anyone who expresses support for BLM or gives an anti-Brexit view. When the BBC tries to show balance, the Mails and Expresses of this world call for their de-funding. Now the Govt are trying to coerce things like the National Trust to adhere to the old establishment version of history.
30
16/02/2021 14:44:23 2 8
bbc
Universities left leaning, what garbage! They are very much part of the elite establishment, which is very much on the right.

We know you would love to spread a bit of hate, hence your childish reference above, but the law of the land currently prevents you from doing so. Tough isn't it?!
7
MVS
16/02/2021 14:26:24 15 13
bbc
Freedom of speech is a fundamental right in this country. Any attempt by any group of people to restrain this right is a direct attack on our history, culture and mores. The Left have tried for far too long to constrain people from saying what they think.
Orwell described this as The Thought Police.
Time to reverse the trend.
14
16/02/2021 14:34:59 15 7
bbc
"direct attack on our history, culture and mores"

Haven't you got the message yet ?

We aren't allowed to have a history anymore ... every white person in the UK has some connection with slavery in their past according to this lot and must pay reparations to the entire world. Obviously every other empire ever is exempt ...
44
16/02/2021 14:48:46 3 2
bbc
Orwell was a socialist, and it always amazes me that the far right are so uneducated to not know this.

But you are going to be grossly disappointed because the law stops the far right from spreading hate still and will continue to do so.

As long as what you have to say is reasonable no one will prevent you from saying so.
8
SCJ
16/02/2021 14:26:35 13 13
bbc
Worrying. Given that Dowden was yesterday meeting with bodies like the National Trust to 'warn' them against re-examining British history and we now find that one of the front runners for this new post is alt-right zealot Toby Young, this smacks of a new round of government censorship. The so-called 'woke' agenda is just people challenging the status quo - it seems the powers don't want that now.
13
16/02/2021 14:31:20 9 10
bbc
"the so-called 'woke' agenda is just people challenging the status quo"

No, its just regular, sensible people challenging stupidity.
19
16/02/2021 14:37:57 2 7
bbc
It is exactly what it is: Fascism by the backdoor!!
39
16/02/2021 14:47:44 5 1
bbc
Re-examine BUT don't change it, it's happened.
At that period in time what happened was what the world wanted.
As time and human compassion changed so did life.
But, you cannot change what happened to fit todays agenda.
They you learn from your mistakes.
9
16/02/2021 14:29:43 40 3
bbc
No problems with freedom of speech, however I can’t help but think this just another strand to the tiresome culture war. Free speech - yes by all means, hate speech - no thanks.
What is hate speech?
I fear that the streets of South East London are terrorised by gangs of predominantly young black youths dealing drugs. Whenever there is a stabbing crime we should immediately be told the ethnicity of all those involved so that we can accurately gauge the extent to which this true - or not.
Is that hate speech, or merely expressing a rational view?
Removed
17
16/02/2021 14:37:03 6 4
bbc
Absolutely!
45
16/02/2021 14:48:52 2 3
bbc
The true evil controlling censorship in play. Nothing is unacceptable to say or express. You have free will not to take any notice or be a feeble copy cat. If mere words worked we would all by obeying every government utterance. Supposed hate is no worse or different to love a mere emotion. In you not the words.
198
SCJ
16/02/2021 15:54:03 2 4
bbc
The problem here is that one person's 'robust and challenging exchange of views' is another person's 'hate speech'. Look how the BBC get shouted down by the alt-right when they present a BLM or anti-Brexit argument and how Oliver Dowden is now trying to ban the National Trust from examining our historical slavery links. No freedom of speech tolerated there by the establishment is there ?
636
17/02/2021 02:01:24 0 1
bbc
Free speech means just that and that includes the anathema "hate speech".
10
16/02/2021 14:27:47 56 16
bbc
NUS see no evidence.....

So they have never, ever, ever seen evidence of no platforming?
188
RSO
16/02/2021 15:50:29 29 10
bbc
NUS are liars
457
16/02/2021 19:03:44 5 1
bbc
NUS too similar to Corbyn Cronies, surround themselves with people of **only** a certain view point that cant see genuine issues as they rephrase all comments as attacks. Didnt go to well for Corbyn, would have thought that the NUS would have learnt the lesson, but obviously not
521
16/02/2021 20:29:58 1 1
bbc
It is generally the likes of the NUS that are doing it.

When they see no signs of it, what they mean is that they don't see a problem with it.
560
16/02/2021 22:10:35 0 2
bbc
You tell us this evidence then. Where is it?

You lot shout a lot, but have no substance to back it up either.
6
16/02/2021 14:25:39 28 18
bbc
ooooh look as soon as the left leaning establishments are threatened with views they dont like, they close ranks around their "autonomous" status.

no excuses woke worthies, you must be subject to the same laws as everyone else in society.
11
SCJ
16/02/2021 14:32:13 25 23
bbc
Except the 'left' don't have a monopoly do they ? Look at how the right wing press shout down anyone who expresses support for BLM or gives an anti-Brexit view. When the BBC tries to show balance, the Mails and Expresses of this world call for their de-funding. Now the Govt are trying to coerce things like the National Trust to adhere to the old establishment version of history.
25
16/02/2021 14:39:22 9 4
bbc
That is free speech, letting both sides and all views say what they like. 'Shouting down' is not banning the thing being reacted to. This is the left's problem. They do not accept others expressing views other than theirs.
Modern daft woke values placed on the past are plain wrong. The past had other values, that is what history is about, seeing how they saw things, not you now from another time!
110
16/02/2021 15:19:08 5 3
bbc
"When the BBC tries to show balance"

You ARE joking ?
146
16/02/2021 15:40:29 7 3
bbc
If the BBC did actually attempt balance, the calls to defund would disappear. There is a difference between being (for example) a right or left leaning newspaper or media outlet that is entirely funded through either subscriptions or donations and a state entity funded via a compulsory levy.
12
16/02/2021 14:32:42 5 11
bbc
Political defence going on here. Read the other day Farage's new Reform party is concentrating on free speech. Now that may be opportunist on his part. However it is like leaving the eu, a very strongly widespread held view that has been suppressed by the same sort of arrogance of the ruling middle rich class forcing the pc religion & its blasphemy laws on everyone else. Bbc on wrong side again!
8
SCJ
16/02/2021 14:26:35 13 13
bbc
Worrying. Given that Dowden was yesterday meeting with bodies like the National Trust to 'warn' them against re-examining British history and we now find that one of the front runners for this new post is alt-right zealot Toby Young, this smacks of a new round of government censorship. The so-called 'woke' agenda is just people challenging the status quo - it seems the powers don't want that now.
13
16/02/2021 14:31:20 9 10
bbc
"the so-called 'woke' agenda is just people challenging the status quo"

No, its just regular, sensible people challenging stupidity.
26
SCJ
16/02/2021 14:41:27 8 4
bbc
That's what I said. Regular sensible people are branded as 'woke' by the very people whose stupidity they challenge
7
MVS
16/02/2021 14:26:24 15 13
bbc
Freedom of speech is a fundamental right in this country. Any attempt by any group of people to restrain this right is a direct attack on our history, culture and mores. The Left have tried for far too long to constrain people from saying what they think.
Orwell described this as The Thought Police.
Time to reverse the trend.
14
16/02/2021 14:34:59 15 7
bbc
"direct attack on our history, culture and mores"

Haven't you got the message yet ?

We aren't allowed to have a history anymore ... every white person in the UK has some connection with slavery in their past according to this lot and must pay reparations to the entire world. Obviously every other empire ever is exempt ...
24
MVS
16/02/2021 14:39:10 10 3
bbc
My ancestors were obviously all evil. They exploited the colonies by being doctors and teachers and engineers and nurses in India and Kenya and South Africa.
I am now so ashamed to be associated with these evil colonialists.
9
16/02/2021 14:29:43 40 3
bbc
No problems with freedom of speech, however I can’t help but think this just another strand to the tiresome culture war. Free speech - yes by all means, hate speech - no thanks.
15
MVS
bbc
What is hate speech?
I fear that the streets of South East London are terrorised by gangs of predominantly young black youths dealing drugs. Whenever there is a stabbing crime we should immediately be told the ethnicity of all those involved so that we can accurately gauge the extent to which this true - or not.
Is that hate speech, or merely expressing a rational view?
Removed
40
16/02/2021 14:47:56 1 2
bbc
Absolutely NOT hate speach. If there is a pattern, be it ethnicity, or maybe a rapid bunch of grannies with balaclavas and walking sticks, we of course should know since i think it pretty reasonable to then be more cautios around that segment of people. It is completely unreasonable and illogical to sue the pattern to day along the lines of 'dont mention the war'
42
16/02/2021 14:48:44 4 2
bbc
There’s nothing wrong with letting communities know the names of people/families engaging in criminal behaviour within their neighbourhood. Anything else should not be relevant.
99
16/02/2021 15:18:10 3 1
bbc
Really hasn't got anything to do with the topic, has it? It's more of a rant.

If you go back down the centuries (well before immigration) you will find that in poor areas there has always been gang violence.

We wouldn't be watching programmes like Peaky Blinders if what I have just said isn't true.

But you would rather make a big issue out of skin colour, than one of socioeconomics.
4
16/02/2021 14:23:27 77 6
bbc
The censorship of anyone with different views should be unacceptable in any university. A major benefit of a university education is exposure to ideas that may be different from your own. Without such diversity of experiences graduates are less able to contribute to society once in the workplace. There is a real risk that future graduates will be unemployable.
16
16/02/2021 14:36:36 46 84
bbc
Sensible comment, but it won't be long before the far-right bots descend to attack anything they vaguely see as being left-wing.

My problem with the Tory Government interference is that what they are championing as free speech is no such thing. There is no legal right to spread hatred, racism, homophobia, or anything else the right like to use to divide society.
43
16/02/2021 14:48:46 26 4
bbc
I defend their right to just as I defend your right to oppose them in argument, it's called free speech. As an atheist I've no desire to be dragged back to the middle ages and be burnt at the stake for heresy.
127
16/02/2021 15:29:35 20 6
bbc
No one is suggesting that hate speech be protected, it is and will remain illegal.

But you knew this already.

Lecturers, students, and guest speakers should be able to express their opinions without having their livelihood threatened, or being de-platformed.
166
16/02/2021 15:44:59 15 10
bbc
Hard core left wing views are the problem. Look whats happened to the Labour Party. Look what the country at large thinks to them too!
You've just described the Labour Party's agenda of hate from the last election. The Left has moved so far to the left that David Steele would today be described as a Right Wing Extremist. Horrible and incompetent though he may be, Johnson is far closer to the roots of the Labour Parry than the sick apology currently masquerading under the "Labour" banner.
266
16/02/2021 16:26:56 4 2
bbc
'Attacking' the left/right is not remotely censorship. It is the essence and point of free speech. Each say whatever they like and verbally 'attack' those that say the opposite.

No words are wrong to be said or expressed. The fact you can list 'laws' of things the left has banned from free speech is hugely telling. You don’t have to agree with such but you don’t prevent it. Long way to go yet!
302
16/02/2021 16:38:55 12 2
bbc
And you call anyone opposing a Left wing position 'Far Right' ?
Universities take public money, if they restrict free speech they should be deprived of it...
311
16/02/2021 16:42:19 3 1
bbc
They probably will, but one can hardly complain when academia throws a mega strop over anything it considers vaguely rightwing.
549
mjb
16/02/2021 21:44:27 4 0
bbc
Yes there is, actual ‘hate’ speech, is illegal, what you can’t stop is an opinion you disagree with,
9
16/02/2021 14:29:43 40 3
bbc
No problems with freedom of speech, however I can’t help but think this just another strand to the tiresome culture war. Free speech - yes by all means, hate speech - no thanks.
17
16/02/2021 14:37:03 6 4
bbc
Absolutely!
18
16/02/2021 14:35:35 47 24
bbc
It's not just the Uni's - The BBC & Channel 4 suppresses free speech EVERY DAY, seeking to promote their own agenda.

Even an innocent 1970's sitcom now comes with a 'Health Warning' least some obscure, yet to be identified, minority might be offended !!
31
16/02/2021 14:44:24 28 39
bbc
You seem confused about what free speech is.

Putting a warning about a sitcom isn't suppression of free speech.

At least try and use a cogent example.
639
17/02/2021 02:08:29 1 0
bbc
Yet you watched it. Now explain how that is the suppression of "free speech". Oh I take it you have never heard of the laws that restrict our "free speech" like libel and slander which have been around along time. Free speech does not mean freedom from consequences of choosing to express your opinion.
8
SCJ
16/02/2021 14:26:35 13 13
bbc
Worrying. Given that Dowden was yesterday meeting with bodies like the National Trust to 'warn' them against re-examining British history and we now find that one of the front runners for this new post is alt-right zealot Toby Young, this smacks of a new round of government censorship. The so-called 'woke' agenda is just people challenging the status quo - it seems the powers don't want that now.
19
16/02/2021 14:37:57 2 7
bbc
It is exactly what it is: Fascism by the backdoor!!
20
16/02/2021 14:38:08 10 9
bbc
A Government-appointed "free speech" czar?

How chillingly Orwellian.
32
16/02/2021 14:44:36 9 7
bbc
With freedom comes responsibility.

Unfortunately the rabid right-wing press has demonstrated a shameful lack of respect for the truth, leading to the present malaise. Fake news is just anything that doesn't reinforce a populist agenda.
38
16/02/2021 14:46:50 2 2
bbc
Have you read 1984? The government in the novel is the antithesis of free speech and not the supporters of it.
21
SCJ
16/02/2021 14:38:17 8 6
bbc
If this becomes law, a university or student union should then invite, say, a radical Islamist hate preacher to speak at a meeting on the grounds of freedom of speech and to challenge their views. Watch the so-called 'free speech' right wing culture warriors howl with indignation and note the hypocrisy. This is freedom of speech - provided it agrees with the establishment viewpoint
29
16/02/2021 14:43:16 10 3
bbc
By all means. Perhaps unlike many, I have absolutely no problem with others expressing any opinions whatever. Perhaps the left woke feeble types should practice it rather than their pc religious tyranny of their version of blasphemy, 'you can't say that'. Anything must be able to be said.
54
16/02/2021 14:54:56 4 1
bbc
...and vice-versa. Free speech is a right we all have, but it comes with responsibilities. Anyone who clearly promotes violence, or prejudices a group of people based on traits not of their choosing, should not be given an audience. Should we perhaps be discussing freedom of opinion?
365
16/02/2021 17:12:35 1 0
bbc
Why in the name of all that is (un)holy would you present that as a moral equivalence? The clue is in the "hate" of "hate preacher". Someone actively encouraging the persecution of people who don't subscribe to his version of religion, ie. ACTUAL HATE.
22
16/02/2021 14:38:33 36 9
bbc
Free speech is being able to say whatever you like by however you want as your opinion. As long as we have the idiotic phase free speech within the law there can never be such a thing as free spech. My father fought in WW2 to keep things like free speech if he could see things now would wonder if it was worth it.
60
jon
16/02/2021 14:57:38 48 10
bbc
I gave up reading the Guardian after it abandoned free speech in favour of permitted opinion. Just look at how Suzanne Moore was hounded out by her journalist colleagues for holding the wrong opinion.
118
16/02/2021 15:25:27 4 6
bbc
There has never been the freedom of speech to the degree you are championing. Laws exist against defamation, libel, slander and hate speech. People are allowed to say things that do not incite or condone lawbreaking.

I strongly disagree with the far-right view that they should be allowed to deliberately stir trouble and hate.
637
17/02/2021 02:04:01 1 0
bbc
You can say whatever you like but you must be willing to accept the consequences of doing so. Free speech has never been a right in the UK, so nope your dad didn't fight for it. You seem to be forgetting libel and slander laws, which have been around longer than your dad.
23
16/02/2021 14:38:46 9 9
bbc
So, we are now to have a 'Commissar' for state sanctioned free speech, undermining the autonomy of our World-leading universities.

And championed by the sort of libtardtarian idiots who suck-up to the likes of Orban and Le Pen.

If only these people were as concerned about the closures of many of our libraries and museums, where our real cultural history resides.
14
16/02/2021 14:34:59 15 7
bbc
"direct attack on our history, culture and mores"

Haven't you got the message yet ?

We aren't allowed to have a history anymore ... every white person in the UK has some connection with slavery in their past according to this lot and must pay reparations to the entire world. Obviously every other empire ever is exempt ...
24
MVS
16/02/2021 14:39:10 10 3
bbc
My ancestors were obviously all evil. They exploited the colonies by being doctors and teachers and engineers and nurses in India and Kenya and South Africa.
I am now so ashamed to be associated with these evil colonialists.
11
SCJ
16/02/2021 14:32:13 25 23
bbc
Except the 'left' don't have a monopoly do they ? Look at how the right wing press shout down anyone who expresses support for BLM or gives an anti-Brexit view. When the BBC tries to show balance, the Mails and Expresses of this world call for their de-funding. Now the Govt are trying to coerce things like the National Trust to adhere to the old establishment version of history.
25
16/02/2021 14:39:22 9 4
bbc
That is free speech, letting both sides and all views say what they like. 'Shouting down' is not banning the thing being reacted to. This is the left's problem. They do not accept others expressing views other than theirs.
Modern daft woke values placed on the past are plain wrong. The past had other values, that is what history is about, seeing how they saw things, not you now from another time!
13
16/02/2021 14:31:20 9 10
bbc
"the so-called 'woke' agenda is just people challenging the status quo"

No, its just regular, sensible people challenging stupidity.
26
SCJ
16/02/2021 14:41:27 8 4
bbc
That's what I said. Regular sensible people are branded as 'woke' by the very people whose stupidity they challenge
3
16/02/2021 14:20:32 9 15
bbc
Universities are a breeding ground for Leftist/Marxist Corbynista types.... I would have thought doing everything possible to silence students was beneficial.
27
16/02/2021 14:42:46 3 3
bbc
Don't forget that Bojo went to a left wing college at Oxford and had to hide his true colours his way to becoming head of Oxford Union. He continued this behaviour throughout the rest of his career.
3
16/02/2021 14:20:32 9 15
bbc
Universities are a breeding ground for Leftist/Marxist Corbynista types.... I would have thought doing everything possible to silence students was beneficial.
28
16/02/2021 14:42:52 4 1
bbc
You appear to be someone who's only a fan of free speech if you agree with it, ie. not a fan at all.
21
SCJ
16/02/2021 14:38:17 8 6
bbc
If this becomes law, a university or student union should then invite, say, a radical Islamist hate preacher to speak at a meeting on the grounds of freedom of speech and to challenge their views. Watch the so-called 'free speech' right wing culture warriors howl with indignation and note the hypocrisy. This is freedom of speech - provided it agrees with the establishment viewpoint
29
16/02/2021 14:43:16 10 3
bbc
By all means. Perhaps unlike many, I have absolutely no problem with others expressing any opinions whatever. Perhaps the left woke feeble types should practice it rather than their pc religious tyranny of their version of blasphemy, 'you can't say that'. Anything must be able to be said.
6
16/02/2021 14:25:39 28 18
bbc
ooooh look as soon as the left leaning establishments are threatened with views they dont like, they close ranks around their "autonomous" status.

no excuses woke worthies, you must be subject to the same laws as everyone else in society.
30
16/02/2021 14:44:23 2 8
bbc
Universities left leaning, what garbage! They are very much part of the elite establishment, which is very much on the right.

We know you would love to spread a bit of hate, hence your childish reference above, but the law of the land currently prevents you from doing so. Tough isn't it?!
113
16/02/2021 15:20:54 6 2
bbc
"They are very much part of the elite establishment, which is very much on the right"

What rubbish.
The elite are globalist neo liberal remainers.
401
16/02/2021 17:40:15 2 0
bbc
Uni's are pretty commonly considered as being more left leaning than right Oracle. I'm pretty middleish (spelling, apology) but your insinuation that someone 'would love to spread a bit of hate' does come across to some as doing exactly what you accuse others of doing.
18
16/02/2021 14:35:35 47 24
bbc
It's not just the Uni's - The BBC & Channel 4 suppresses free speech EVERY DAY, seeking to promote their own agenda.

Even an innocent 1970's sitcom now comes with a 'Health Warning' least some obscure, yet to be identified, minority might be offended !!
31
16/02/2021 14:44:24 28 39
bbc
You seem confused about what free speech is.

Putting a warning about a sitcom isn't suppression of free speech.

At least try and use a cogent example.
76
16/02/2021 15:03:44 12 7
bbc
The sitcom analogy is an example of the slippery slope, the next step is a total ban and in many cases that has already happened.
20
16/02/2021 14:38:08 10 9
bbc
A Government-appointed "free speech" czar?

How chillingly Orwellian.
32
16/02/2021 14:44:36 9 7
bbc
With freedom comes responsibility.

Unfortunately the rabid right-wing press has demonstrated a shameful lack of respect for the truth, leading to the present malaise. Fake news is just anything that doesn't reinforce a populist agenda.
66
16/02/2021 14:59:44 2 3
bbc
So what! What is wrong with you censorship lovers? Only media publications have to check facts. Opinion is not a fact. Papers and the bbc can interview people for opinions. It is entirely the reader, listener's, task to check facts. Social media is not a place to believe a word without checking facts, if they might be relevant. Politicians are masters at lying ‘factually'. Fake surveys etc.
33
jon
16/02/2021 14:44:58 6 4
bbc
You must acknowledge your prejudice 100%. Nothing else is acceptable at Somerville College, Oxford. At least the college principle has backed down, but only partially. In reality Baroness Royall is imposing a programme of re-education every bit as bad as the Chinese communist party.

https://freespeechunion.org/letter-to-baroness-royall-regarding-unconscious-bias-training-at-somerville-college/
34
16/02/2021 14:45:03 36 17
bbc
When snowflakes get too close to the heat they simply melt away.
114
16/02/2021 15:23:24 9 13
bbc
but if there are enough they put the fire out eh?
207
16/02/2021 15:55:53 3 8
bbc
These terms "snowflake" and "woke" are nothing more than derision of those who have empathy for the plight of others. I'd rather be a snowflake or woke than a bigot, thanks.
35
16/02/2021 14:45:15 6 6
bbc
Censorship works in any way possible. As soon as someone has "authority" to decide what is "free speech" it is not free anymore...
This government shows series fascist tendencies. Aren't they also doubling down on freedom of information legislation? This is only going one way...
36
16/02/2021 14:45:16 8 3
bbc
If you didn't go to university and don't like alternative views, let people know here.
47
16/02/2021 14:50:31 9 7
bbc
The sad thing is it is those that go or have been to university that tend to be anti free speech, the whole 'no platforming' is a university thing! They are the problem.
52
16/02/2021 14:53:55 4 4
bbc
its universities who don't like alternative views, hence the non platforming prevalents amongst its woke worthies
12
16/02/2021 14:32:42 5 11
bbc
Political defence going on here. Read the other day Farage's new Reform party is concentrating on free speech. Now that may be opportunist on his part. However it is like leaving the eu, a very strongly widespread held view that has been suppressed by the same sort of arrogance of the ruling middle rich class forcing the pc religion & its blasphemy laws on everyone else. Bbc on wrong side again!
Removed
20
16/02/2021 14:38:08 10 9
bbc
A Government-appointed "free speech" czar?

How chillingly Orwellian.
38
16/02/2021 14:46:50 2 2
bbc
Have you read 1984? The government in the novel is the antithesis of free speech and not the supporters of it.
51
16/02/2021 14:53:20 4 1
bbc
Errr, that was my point Dave.
8
SCJ
16/02/2021 14:26:35 13 13
bbc
Worrying. Given that Dowden was yesterday meeting with bodies like the National Trust to 'warn' them against re-examining British history and we now find that one of the front runners for this new post is alt-right zealot Toby Young, this smacks of a new round of government censorship. The so-called 'woke' agenda is just people challenging the status quo - it seems the powers don't want that now.
39
16/02/2021 14:47:44 5 1
bbc
Re-examine BUT don't change it, it's happened.
At that period in time what happened was what the world wanted.
As time and human compassion changed so did life.
But, you cannot change what happened to fit todays agenda.
They you learn from your mistakes.
What is hate speech?
I fear that the streets of South East London are terrorised by gangs of predominantly young black youths dealing drugs. Whenever there is a stabbing crime we should immediately be told the ethnicity of all those involved so that we can accurately gauge the extent to which this true - or not.
Is that hate speech, or merely expressing a rational view?
Removed
40
16/02/2021 14:47:56 1 2
bbc
Absolutely NOT hate speach. If there is a pattern, be it ethnicity, or maybe a rapid bunch of grannies with balaclavas and walking sticks, we of course should know since i think it pretty reasonable to then be more cautios around that segment of people. It is completely unreasonable and illogical to sue the pattern to day along the lines of 'dont mention the war'
41
bbc
Well the BBC have spent the last three years supporting peoples rights to deface, replace or simply destroy every statue in towns that has a remote link to the past. This almost Pol Pot take us back to year zero campaign has been supported by the Liberal elite who hate Britain and its history. Removed
50
16/02/2021 14:52:35 2 1
bbc
No it hasn't.

Prove it.
78
16/02/2021 15:05:50 1 0
bbc
Factually bogus - and you really DO need to stop reading the Daily Express "Andy"
What is hate speech?
I fear that the streets of South East London are terrorised by gangs of predominantly young black youths dealing drugs. Whenever there is a stabbing crime we should immediately be told the ethnicity of all those involved so that we can accurately gauge the extent to which this true - or not.
Is that hate speech, or merely expressing a rational view?
Removed
42
16/02/2021 14:48:44 4 2
bbc
There’s nothing wrong with letting communities know the names of people/families engaging in criminal behaviour within their neighbourhood. Anything else should not be relevant.
53
MVS
16/02/2021 14:54:34 4 4
bbc
Are you saying that ethnicity in this case is not relevant? Because all of the statistics suggest that it in fact is.
Surely if we want to build a better more cohesive society we should identify and root out ALL those "communities" where crime is endemic.
That includes the white sex-slave traders from East Europe, the Cypriot gangs in Soho and the black drug dealers on the streets of London
16
16/02/2021 14:36:36 46 84
bbc
Sensible comment, but it won't be long before the far-right bots descend to attack anything they vaguely see as being left-wing.

My problem with the Tory Government interference is that what they are championing as free speech is no such thing. There is no legal right to spread hatred, racism, homophobia, or anything else the right like to use to divide society.
43
16/02/2021 14:48:46 26 4
bbc
I defend their right to just as I defend your right to oppose them in argument, it's called free speech. As an atheist I've no desire to be dragged back to the middle ages and be burnt at the stake for heresy.
62
16/02/2021 14:58:07 8 13
bbc
You can defend their right (or, is it yours?), but the law is quite clear about what people can and can't say in public. We've had libel/defamation laws for aeons, as there has been for swearing and inciting violence etc...

As for you last sentence, it is non sequitur!
105
16/02/2021 15:19:23 4 2
bbc
I am glad you defend the right to freedom of speech. Would you allow views such as those below to be expressed on campuses?

I am curious.

https://extinctionrebellion.uk/

https://www.christian.org.uk/

https://j4mb.org.uk/

https://www.bmj.com/rapid-response/2011/10/30/smacking-bans-may-do-more-harm-good
.
7
MVS
16/02/2021 14:26:24 15 13
bbc
Freedom of speech is a fundamental right in this country. Any attempt by any group of people to restrain this right is a direct attack on our history, culture and mores. The Left have tried for far too long to constrain people from saying what they think.
Orwell described this as The Thought Police.
Time to reverse the trend.
44
16/02/2021 14:48:46 3 2
bbc
Orwell was a socialist, and it always amazes me that the far right are so uneducated to not know this.

But you are going to be grossly disappointed because the law stops the far right from spreading hate still and will continue to do so.

As long as what you have to say is reasonable no one will prevent you from saying so.
64
MVS
16/02/2021 14:59:11 3 1
bbc
As someone who has studied Orwell for over 50 years I kinda guessed he might have been a socialist, but thank you for letting me know. That does not mean that he was wrong when pointing out the evils of extreme politics on either wing.
His description of the dangers behind The Thought Police should be a very real warning about what is happening in our Universities today.
404
16/02/2021 17:42:28 1 0
bbc
Oracle - you make some fairly reasonable comments, but then ruin it all by accusing anyone with a differing view to yours as being 'far right'. Do you not see that your action of doing that is part of the problem?
9
16/02/2021 14:29:43 40 3
bbc
No problems with freedom of speech, however I can’t help but think this just another strand to the tiresome culture war. Free speech - yes by all means, hate speech - no thanks.
45
16/02/2021 14:48:52 2 3
bbc
The true evil controlling censorship in play. Nothing is unacceptable to say or express. You have free will not to take any notice or be a feeble copy cat. If mere words worked we would all by obeying every government utterance. Supposed hate is no worse or different to love a mere emotion. In you not the words.
79
16/02/2021 15:06:35 2 4
bbc
So let’s say someone says they hate me and threatens physical harm against me on social media, then that’s freedom of speech? Would you have been happy with Hitler’s ramblings?
3
16/02/2021 14:20:32 9 15
bbc
Universities are a breeding ground for Leftist/Marxist Corbynista types.... I would have thought doing everything possible to silence students was beneficial.
46
16/02/2021 14:50:21 2 3
bbc
You're just spreading your ill-informed far-right propaganda, but at least you recognise the Tories are really about stifling free-speech!
36
16/02/2021 14:45:16 8 3
bbc
If you didn't go to university and don't like alternative views, let people know here.
47
16/02/2021 14:50:31 9 7
bbc
The sad thing is it is those that go or have been to university that tend to be anti free speech, the whole 'no platforming' is a university thing! They are the problem.
70
16/02/2021 15:02:14 3 2
bbc
I went to university and wasn’t aware of no-platforming. Then again, I was never involved in any political society. As for free speech advocates, I’ll point to that QAnon nutter in Congress (Green). Wearing a face mask saying she’s being silenced whilst talking in Congress on National TV. If people like her didn’t exist, you couldn’t have made them up ??
95
16/02/2021 15:15:46 2 2
bbc
The notion that university graduates tend to be anti free speech is not only ridiculous, it's repugnant as well Millions of British people from all walks of life and backgrounds have attended uni and amen to that! Even nearly all the cabinet and opposition front bench went to uni. I doubt you even believe your own post but merely have issues with young people
48
16/02/2021 14:51:25 4 8
bbc
If hate speech in this country is banned how have the BBC got away with every single report on Donald Trump in the last 4 years. They should be ashamed of their reporting record.
58
16/02/2021 14:55:23 4 1
bbc
Provide an example of what you are claiming.
98
16/02/2021 15:17:59 1 0
bbc
I exercise my right of free speech - Mr D Trump is a misogynist, a racist, a liar, an inciter to violence because he does not like democracy and a thoroughly bad egg! You only have to listen and read his own words to know this. You are perfectly welcome to disagree – that is called free speech!
49
16/02/2021 14:52:18 8 7
bbc
Tory peer appointed as "independent" head of student watchdog.

Now we're having a Government-appointed "free speech" commissar.

Doesn't sound much like the Government wants to support free speech, only that it wants to control universities.

Sinister.
Well the BBC have spent the last three years supporting peoples rights to deface, replace or simply destroy every statue in towns that has a remote link to the past. This almost Pol Pot take us back to year zero campaign has been supported by the Liberal elite who hate Britain and its history. Removed
50
16/02/2021 14:52:35 2 1
bbc
No it hasn't.

Prove it.
38
16/02/2021 14:46:50 2 2
bbc
Have you read 1984? The government in the novel is the antithesis of free speech and not the supporters of it.
51
16/02/2021 14:53:20 4 1
bbc
Errr, that was my point Dave.
36
16/02/2021 14:45:16 8 3
bbc
If you didn't go to university and don't like alternative views, let people know here.
52
16/02/2021 14:53:55 4 4
bbc
its universities who don't like alternative views, hence the non platforming prevalents amongst its woke worthies
42
16/02/2021 14:48:44 4 2
bbc
There’s nothing wrong with letting communities know the names of people/families engaging in criminal behaviour within their neighbourhood. Anything else should not be relevant.
53
MVS
16/02/2021 14:54:34 4 4
bbc
Are you saying that ethnicity in this case is not relevant? Because all of the statistics suggest that it in fact is.
Surely if we want to build a better more cohesive society we should identify and root out ALL those "communities" where crime is endemic.
That includes the white sex-slave traders from East Europe, the Cypriot gangs in Soho and the black drug dealers on the streets of London
463
16/02/2021 19:14:30 0 0
bbc
There are times when it is totally irrelevant to bring in gender, race, culture.... into the argument. You mention Cypriot gangs in Soho, are they the **only** gang? or should the warnings be about **all** gangs?

To me positive discrimination is still discrimination & can very easily be twisted. ie David Lammy & his "white saviour" comment resulted in less money being raised
21
SCJ
16/02/2021 14:38:17 8 6
bbc
If this becomes law, a university or student union should then invite, say, a radical Islamist hate preacher to speak at a meeting on the grounds of freedom of speech and to challenge their views. Watch the so-called 'free speech' right wing culture warriors howl with indignation and note the hypocrisy. This is freedom of speech - provided it agrees with the establishment viewpoint
54
16/02/2021 14:54:56 4 1
bbc
...and vice-versa. Free speech is a right we all have, but it comes with responsibilities. Anyone who clearly promotes violence, or prejudices a group of people based on traits not of their choosing, should not be given an audience. Should we perhaps be discussing freedom of opinion?
82
16/02/2021 15:08:10 2 0
bbc
Wrong. All and anything is acceptable. It is only words. You can disagree, or ignore, and not suddenly adopt any expressed views. Pc values like you mentioned are the worst religious belief style imposed blasphemy rules. Along with ‘witch-hunting' persecuting, the unbelievers, apostates!
55
16/02/2021 14:55:00 12 3
bbc
When I hear of 'no-platforming' that is done 'for the sake of those who have been abused' or 'to protect those who may be offended' I think of what C S Lewis said,

'Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive.'
235
16/02/2021 16:11:06 6 1
bbc
The Paradox of Tolerance applies:

"The paradox of tolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant. Karl Popper described it as the seemingly paradoxical idea that in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance."
56
16/02/2021 14:55:02 12 3
bbc
If want to call myself a tree that is my right in free speech to do that but accordingly it is someone else's right in free speech to point out my cells do not contain chloroplasts and are in fact animal cells.
65
16/02/2021 14:59:34 2 9
bbc
You wut?
57
16/02/2021 14:55:17 3 0
bbc
'Freedom of speech' counts little without education and experience, vocabulary and understanding. Why the 'quieting' of SAGE on need of material freedom for isolation? Why the stamping of 'NOT GOVERNMENT POLICY' on SAGE eventual listing of logical scenarios, 28.10.20? Truth unto power with tyranny tends to have adverse impacts on career and family and survival. 'Regulators of corruption' TRUSTED?
Removed
48
16/02/2021 14:51:25 4 8
bbc
If hate speech in this country is banned how have the BBC got away with every single report on Donald Trump in the last 4 years. They should be ashamed of their reporting record.
58
16/02/2021 14:55:23 4 1
bbc
Provide an example of what you are claiming.
59
16/02/2021 14:57:28 52 14
bbc
I agree with the government on this. At my university, like many others, free speech is under attack on campus, not only because conservative voices are suppressed and the Union's focus upon a "woke" agenda, but most importantly, our academic institutions are terrified of the "China" debate due to international students. As PhD student, I have been encouraged to "self-censor" my research
69
16/02/2021 15:01:46 19 47
bbc
Let's see some evidence and less of the hearsay !

You show your agenda when you use "woke" in such a childish manner.
691
17/02/2021 08:48:26 0 0
bbc
It's a shame that a person who is a doctoral student cannot say what they really want to. I doubt if you are a rude person and you would never harm anyone through speech, however being over careful could harm you future. I hope the 'woke' (how I loathe that word) will grow up, get a job and become taxpayers, I won't hold my breath though.n
22
16/02/2021 14:38:33 36 9
bbc
Free speech is being able to say whatever you like by however you want as your opinion. As long as we have the idiotic phase free speech within the law there can never be such a thing as free spech. My father fought in WW2 to keep things like free speech if he could see things now would wonder if it was worth it.
60
jon
16/02/2021 14:57:38 48 10
bbc
I gave up reading the Guardian after it abandoned free speech in favour of permitted opinion. Just look at how Suzanne Moore was hounded out by her journalist colleagues for holding the wrong opinion.
68
16/02/2021 15:01:38 15 2
bbc
Yep, it reminds me of the stoning scene from Life of Brian, beware the self righteous mob armed with rocks.
61
16/02/2021 14:57:51 2 3
bbc
Can today's freedom of speech bring back the dead, wipe the memories of suffering, or restore to our young such chances as might have been theirs with SAGE 'repeated circuit breaks', ROBUST response to the challenges well appreciated from Covid-19 (as a highly infectious, potentially-deadly, mutating respiratory virus). Please do not understate what is at stake, in 'democracy real versus sham'.
43
16/02/2021 14:48:46 26 4
bbc
I defend their right to just as I defend your right to oppose them in argument, it's called free speech. As an atheist I've no desire to be dragged back to the middle ages and be burnt at the stake for heresy.
62
16/02/2021 14:58:07 8 13
bbc
You can defend their right (or, is it yours?), but the law is quite clear about what people can and can't say in public. We've had libel/defamation laws for aeons, as there has been for swearing and inciting violence etc...

As for you last sentence, it is non sequitur!
77
16/02/2021 15:04:56 12 3
bbc
"As for you last sentence, it is non sequitur!"

It isn't, sadly it still happens in the World but rarely fire.
63
16/02/2021 14:57:51 27 4
bbc
Trying to restrict what people say didn't work when the govt tried it with the IRA, and it won't ultimately work with "no platforming".

Repugnant views are beaten by debate and challenge, and by demonstrating the logical inconsistencies and incoherence, not by trying to stop those views being stated in the first place.
137
16/02/2021 15:35:31 12 26
bbc
"You'll never win an argument by silencing the opponent; you only win by proving them wrong."

Oh, if only that was true!!

The right-wing just deny deny deny, that is their tactic. They tell lies as if it's out of fashion.

Facts & scientific evidence are rubbished by them, by using these tactics.
638
17/02/2021 02:06:02 1 2
bbc
Erm the govt isn't deplatforming anyone only private institutions are. I am betting there is language you do not allow in your home, or if you have kids you do not allow them to use in your presence, universities and the NUS have the same right in their private property, and that is what a campus is.
44
16/02/2021 14:48:46 3 2
bbc
Orwell was a socialist, and it always amazes me that the far right are so uneducated to not know this.

But you are going to be grossly disappointed because the law stops the far right from spreading hate still and will continue to do so.

As long as what you have to say is reasonable no one will prevent you from saying so.
64
MVS
16/02/2021 14:59:11 3 1
bbc
As someone who has studied Orwell for over 50 years I kinda guessed he might have been a socialist, but thank you for letting me know. That does not mean that he was wrong when pointing out the evils of extreme politics on either wing.
His description of the dangers behind The Thought Police should be a very real warning about what is happening in our Universities today.
56
16/02/2021 14:55:02 12 3
bbc
If want to call myself a tree that is my right in free speech to do that but accordingly it is someone else's right in free speech to point out my cells do not contain chloroplasts and are in fact animal cells.
65
16/02/2021 14:59:34 2 9
bbc
You wut?
88
16/02/2021 15:12:27 4 0
bbc
Asleep in science class were you ?
296
SCJ
16/02/2021 16:36:46 2 0
bbc
It's an analogy - I know what they mean
32
16/02/2021 14:44:36 9 7
bbc
With freedom comes responsibility.

Unfortunately the rabid right-wing press has demonstrated a shameful lack of respect for the truth, leading to the present malaise. Fake news is just anything that doesn't reinforce a populist agenda.
66
16/02/2021 14:59:44 2 3
bbc
So what! What is wrong with you censorship lovers? Only media publications have to check facts. Opinion is not a fact. Papers and the bbc can interview people for opinions. It is entirely the reader, listener's, task to check facts. Social media is not a place to believe a word without checking facts, if they might be relevant. Politicians are masters at lying ‘factually'. Fake surveys etc.
67
16/02/2021 15:01:21 11 8
bbc
"Defund the BBC"

"Shut down BLM"

"Ban Unions"

"Gag Greta"

"Universities are cesspools of leftism"

The far-right "champions of free speech", very keen on free speech but only if it's their own.

Personally, I'm happy with anything as long as it doesn't instigate hatred, serious harm or violence towards others.
71
16/02/2021 15:03:19 7 13
bbc
Sums up the hypocrisy of the right-wing quite succinctly!
75
16/02/2021 15:03:40 2 3
bbc
Bang on the rag week money, mate!
116
16/02/2021 15:24:07 5 3
bbc
BBC defund - nil to do with free speech
Shut down BLM - says who? Nobody. What I object to is compulsion to applaud it.
Ban unions - Again, says who?
Gag Greta - Nobody says this though they may think she is woefully over-exposed and unchallenged.
Universities are cesspools of leftism - Small vocal groups tend to give this impression though there's a silent moderate majority
Free speech for all!
60
jon
16/02/2021 14:57:38 48 10
bbc
I gave up reading the Guardian after it abandoned free speech in favour of permitted opinion. Just look at how Suzanne Moore was hounded out by her journalist colleagues for holding the wrong opinion.
68
16/02/2021 15:01:38 15 2
bbc
Yep, it reminds me of the stoning scene from Life of Brian, beware the self righteous mob armed with rocks.
126
16/02/2021 15:30:23 4 0
bbc
Didn't the mob just want any excuse to stone someone?
59
16/02/2021 14:57:28 52 14
bbc
I agree with the government on this. At my university, like many others, free speech is under attack on campus, not only because conservative voices are suppressed and the Union's focus upon a "woke" agenda, but most importantly, our academic institutions are terrified of the "China" debate due to international students. As PhD student, I have been encouraged to "self-censor" my research
69
16/02/2021 15:01:46 19 47
bbc
Let's see some evidence and less of the hearsay !

You show your agenda when you use "woke" in such a childish manner.
273
16/02/2021 16:28:46 14 2
bbc
"Woke" is the accurate description, a term invented by followers of that agenda to describe themselves.
458
16/02/2021 19:08:21 7 1
bbc
So never notice you say anything bad about any left wing group, other than they are too tory-lite.

Whether Emporoer Xi the Merciless is aware of each infraction is irrelevant. China treatment of minorities is well reported, yet how often do the Uni VC say anything about it. Not as if they dont express their opinions on lesser issues
531
SJ
16/02/2021 20:52:36 1 0
bbc
Yes. Show us evidence.
47
16/02/2021 14:50:31 9 7
bbc
The sad thing is it is those that go or have been to university that tend to be anti free speech, the whole 'no platforming' is a university thing! They are the problem.
70
16/02/2021 15:02:14 3 2
bbc
I went to university and wasn’t aware of no-platforming. Then again, I was never involved in any political society. As for free speech advocates, I’ll point to that QAnon nutter in Congress (Green). Wearing a face mask saying she’s being silenced whilst talking in Congress on National TV. If people like her didn’t exist, you couldn’t have made them up ??
96
16/02/2021 15:17:22 2 1
bbc
You won't know they are 'nutters' unless they are free to say what they like. I guess, not into USA politics, she got closed down on some social media? Or the very nasty ruling class pressure to attack free speech platforms for the 'not one of us' lot. Only full free speech reveals the nutters.
67
16/02/2021 15:01:21 11 8
bbc
"Defund the BBC"

"Shut down BLM"

"Ban Unions"

"Gag Greta"

"Universities are cesspools of leftism"

The far-right "champions of free speech", very keen on free speech but only if it's their own.

Personally, I'm happy with anything as long as it doesn't instigate hatred, serious harm or violence towards others.
71
16/02/2021 15:03:19 7 13
bbc
Sums up the hypocrisy of the right-wing quite succinctly!
72
16/02/2021 15:03:39 7 4
bbc
I wonder how many of those on here (a public forum) complaining about their freedom of expression being curtailed realise that it is Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights that explicitly protects that right?
97
16/02/2021 15:17:31 5 3
bbc
Er, no, there's no such thing as 'human rights'.
What defends the rights of British subjects is the British common Law system rather than foreign importations.
73
16/02/2021 15:04:09 2 3
bbc
There never has been a period in history when speech has been truly free. In the mid 20th C fascists were banned; in the 80s and 90s the far right were not allowed to voice their views. These groups were silenced by general consensus. Today that consensus seems to be split along generational lines. We talk of the Woke generation and outrage against Woke is generally voiced by the older generation.
84
16/02/2021 15:10:34 1 3
bbc
But it is the Woke generation that want to close down freedom of speech and rewrite history at the same time. It is sad that our freedoms are being eroded by political correctness and the bizarre egos of those on the left.
74
16/02/2021 15:02:51 5 1
bbc
All for free speech even when it's a little radical. British universities have always nurtured fresh thought - even 500 years ago in the midst of the reformation. Also the boomers (the working class ones were the first in their families to get to uni) need to remember what the 1960s were like. Women's rights, the sexual revolution, Viet Nam and dozens of other protests aside. Dwell on this
67
16/02/2021 15:01:21 11 8
bbc
"Defund the BBC"

"Shut down BLM"

"Ban Unions"

"Gag Greta"

"Universities are cesspools of leftism"

The far-right "champions of free speech", very keen on free speech but only if it's their own.

Personally, I'm happy with anything as long as it doesn't instigate hatred, serious harm or violence towards others.
75
16/02/2021 15:03:40 2 3
bbc
Bang on the rag week money, mate!
31
16/02/2021 14:44:24 28 39
bbc
You seem confused about what free speech is.

Putting a warning about a sitcom isn't suppression of free speech.

At least try and use a cogent example.
76
16/02/2021 15:03:44 12 7
bbc
The sitcom analogy is an example of the slippery slope, the next step is a total ban and in many cases that has already happened.
No, the warning note is a good thing. It means I can help my children to grow up without the casual racism that used to exist in this country, but which you clearly do not have the intelligence to recognise.
62
16/02/2021 14:58:07 8 13
bbc
You can defend their right (or, is it yours?), but the law is quite clear about what people can and can't say in public. We've had libel/defamation laws for aeons, as there has been for swearing and inciting violence etc...

As for you last sentence, it is non sequitur!
77
16/02/2021 15:04:56 12 3
bbc
"As for you last sentence, it is non sequitur!"

It isn't, sadly it still happens in the World but rarely fire.
Well the BBC have spent the last three years supporting peoples rights to deface, replace or simply destroy every statue in towns that has a remote link to the past. This almost Pol Pot take us back to year zero campaign has been supported by the Liberal elite who hate Britain and its history. Removed
78
16/02/2021 15:05:50 1 0
bbc
Factually bogus - and you really DO need to stop reading the Daily Express "Andy"
45
16/02/2021 14:48:52 2 3
bbc
The true evil controlling censorship in play. Nothing is unacceptable to say or express. You have free will not to take any notice or be a feeble copy cat. If mere words worked we would all by obeying every government utterance. Supposed hate is no worse or different to love a mere emotion. In you not the words.
79
16/02/2021 15:06:35 2 4
bbc
So let’s say someone says they hate me and threatens physical harm against me on social media, then that’s freedom of speech? Would you have been happy with Hitler’s ramblings?
129
16/02/2021 15:32:20 8 1
bbc
That someone hates you is not a crime, nor are you entitled not to be "hated" (doesn't matter how virtuous or otherwise you may be). Threat of physical violence is.

There is no immutable right not to be offended. The terms "hate speech" and "hate crimes" are being wildly over-extended and should probably be curtailed.
131
MVS
16/02/2021 15:33:05 4 1
bbc
Almost anything anyone does on social media (and that includes BBC HYS streams) should be covered under freedom of speech. No one has to participate, so it is up to each of us to decide the level of stupidity from others that we can put up with. We can always ban ourselves from using any platform.
Hardly the same as State managed propaganda put out by Hitler.
80
16/02/2021 15:06:50 24 5
bbc
If you are not offending someone then you are not thinking. If you are not thinking then you are not free. If you are not free then you will manufacture hatred.
81
16/02/2021 15:07:29 51 5
bbc
I think restrictions on what people are allowed to say should be very, very limited. Unfortunately too many people *say* that they support free speech, but it turns out that they are not all that keen on it when people say things they don't like.
86
16/02/2021 15:11:38 23 5
bbc
I think there should be no restrictions at all. I also think people should be responsible for what they say.
634
17/02/2021 01:56:14 0 0
bbc
Restrictions and consequences are not the same thing, as they are not being silenced or prosecuted for what they say in this case they are just not being invited to speak on private property. I am sure there is certain language you won't allow in your home which is your private property even if you are renter.
54
16/02/2021 14:54:56 4 1
bbc
...and vice-versa. Free speech is a right we all have, but it comes with responsibilities. Anyone who clearly promotes violence, or prejudices a group of people based on traits not of their choosing, should not be given an audience. Should we perhaps be discussing freedom of opinion?
82
16/02/2021 15:08:10 2 0
bbc
Wrong. All and anything is acceptable. It is only words. You can disagree, or ignore, and not suddenly adopt any expressed views. Pc values like you mentioned are the worst religious belief style imposed blasphemy rules. Along with ‘witch-hunting' persecuting, the unbelievers, apostates!
83
16/02/2021 15:08:45 7 3
bbc
Youve got the air-conditioning man holding up

YOUR academic freedoms

YOUR freedom of expression

YOUR history

YOUR comedy

The academics

ARE EGGING IT ON!

We've all repeatedly got to accept whatever brain fart of the day is trending on twitter and chant along with it

There's a twitter mob!

Its VICIOUS and obsessed with control

Everyone is terrified to say anything

Stand up to it!
73
16/02/2021 15:04:09 2 3
bbc
There never has been a period in history when speech has been truly free. In the mid 20th C fascists were banned; in the 80s and 90s the far right were not allowed to voice their views. These groups were silenced by general consensus. Today that consensus seems to be split along generational lines. We talk of the Woke generation and outrage against Woke is generally voiced by the older generation.
84
16/02/2021 15:10:34 1 3
bbc
But it is the Woke generation that want to close down freedom of speech and rewrite history at the same time. It is sad that our freedoms are being eroded by political correctness and the bizarre egos of those on the left.
305
SCJ
16/02/2021 16:40:56 0 2
bbc
History has already been rewritten. It's the so-called 'woke' generation that want ALL history - good, bad, indifferent - to be on record, not just a sanitised version that suits the narrative of the establishment.
85
16/02/2021 15:11:16 7 3
bbc
The BBC and Iran.

"It's not just the Uni's - The BBC & Channel 4 suppresses free speech EVERY DAY, seeking to promote their own agenda."

Yet you're on here, literally every day, exercising your right to criticise the BBC and exercising your right to free speech on this very platform. So how on earth does that work? You seem very, very confused.
90
16/02/2021 15:14:01 6 5
bbc
But can’t say what he wants though, only a snippet and within guidelines, there is no free speech anymore, unless it’s on messages very PC and can’t offend anyone
103
16/02/2021 15:17:39 1 3
bbc
There is no such thing as free speech anymore, if you say something that someone might object to then the objector has the right to stop you, the minority brigade has used closing down free speech in universities to gain control and further a small number of self interested people, rolled over to media, mainstream think a minority group (no not racial) might be wrong and minority shouts rights
138
16/02/2021 15:35:32 0 3
bbc
Your comment would have more validity if the BBC had not conducted a complete shutdown of HYS debate on the US elections. I guess that bit of free speech is a bit to free for the BBC.
Removed
81
16/02/2021 15:07:29 51 5
bbc
I think restrictions on what people are allowed to say should be very, very limited. Unfortunately too many people *say* that they support free speech, but it turns out that they are not all that keen on it when people say things they don't like.
86
16/02/2021 15:11:38 23 5
bbc
I think there should be no restrictions at all. I also think people should be responsible for what they say.
122
16/02/2021 15:27:24 4 4
bbc
I agree to some extent but not on the internet where the poster can be anonymous
206
SCJ
16/02/2021 15:55:45 2 8
bbc
I have no personal issues with that - but then watch the right wing media explode with indignation when radical Islamist or anti-royalty views are aired.
87
16/02/2021 15:09:47 3 3
bbc
Freedom of speech seems to be controlled so not really freedom, I don’t mind what someone says I can disagree, find so many want to control people saying what they want unless it’s within their agenda.

Some have strong views which one might think insane but they have the right to say what they want.

Frustration is not being allowed to be free to speak, probably why so many problems on HYS
184
16/02/2021 15:46:29 0 1
bbc
nope the internet is a place where you can post anonymously that must not happen as trolls abound on social media
65
16/02/2021 14:59:34 2 9
bbc
You wut?
88
16/02/2021 15:12:27 4 0
bbc
Asleep in science class were you ?
57
16/02/2021 14:55:17 3 0
bbc
'Freedom of speech' counts little without education and experience, vocabulary and understanding. Why the 'quieting' of SAGE on need of material freedom for isolation? Why the stamping of 'NOT GOVERNMENT POLICY' on SAGE eventual listing of logical scenarios, 28.10.20? Truth unto power with tyranny tends to have adverse impacts on career and family and survival. 'Regulators of corruption' TRUSTED?
Removed
85
16/02/2021 15:11:16 7 3
bbc
The BBC and Iran.

"It's not just the Uni's - The BBC & Channel 4 suppresses free speech EVERY DAY, seeking to promote their own agenda."

Yet you're on here, literally every day, exercising your right to criticise the BBC and exercising your right to free speech on this very platform. So how on earth does that work? You seem very, very confused.
90
16/02/2021 15:14:01 6 5
bbc
But can’t say what he wants though, only a snippet and within guidelines, there is no free speech anymore, unless it’s on messages very PC and can’t offend anyone
104
16/02/2021 15:19:18 4 0
bbc
Yes he can, and does. So can you.

I'm afraid that you seem to be making stuff up.
115
16/02/2021 15:22:26 3 1
bbc
And rightly so! Hate speech and racism not to mention disinformation is abounding all over social media put there by anonymous cowards. Thank God the BBC keep these things in check and by the way radical thought that offends is one thing, but there are plenty that simply get off by being offensive there IS a huge difference
91
16/02/2021 15:14:39 3 5
bbc
I tend to think there is a serious problem with free speech, not just in universities but in the public sector and in the country in general. Its almost like we have George Orwell's 'thought police'.

I'm a centralist floating voter, and it seems that some far left views are acceptable, slightly to the right views aren't. Some things which are reasonable and logical are not acceptable.
100
16/02/2021 15:18:14 6 2
bbc
I just cannot understand how you can claim this.

We are a right wing country, we have a right wing government, the majority of the press is right wing, and right wing commentators, think tanks etc are everywhere.

How can you claim that "slightly to the right views" aren't acceptable. It's demonstrable nonsense.
92
16/02/2021 15:15:07 3 1
bbc
People are free to believe the lies that pander to their stereotypes and prejudice.

Alternatively, objective facts are available.
108
MVS
16/02/2021 15:20:43 1 6
bbc
Are opinions that differ from mine "lies" or "alternatively, objective facts"?
Your comment rather suggests that only those "facts" that support my opinion are valid, and yet they may be nothing other than lies that pander to my prejudices.
The debate works both ways.
93
16/02/2021 15:15:26 2 3
bbc
Yes- Universities should be independent: of taxpayers.
Instead, and as they're already charities at law, let them live on income from their student customers rather than off taxpayers' subsidies.
NB: the University of Buckingham is already independent, as it the University [ex-'College'] of Law.
102
16/02/2021 15:19:17 4 1
bbc
Sigh!
111
16/02/2021 15:19:25 2 1
bbc
Nope WHAT kind of nation do you want? The boomers who went to uni got GRANTS but young people today simply get DEBTS this is the Britain of tomorrow we MUST invest in them. If you want to see unis stuffed full of the wealthy and kids from abroad just say so but watch them pull up that ladder behind them
94
16/02/2021 15:16:13 97 19
bbc
"The National Union of Students says there is "no evidence" of a freedom of speech crisis on campus."....and they'll ban anyone who says otherwise.
Let's ask Germaine Greer, Jordan Peterson, Amber Rudd etc etc
183
RSO
16/02/2021 15:49:14 61 23
bbc
Maybe the BBC Reality Check could look to see if there is no evidence as they suggest or in fact the NUS are telling fibs. My experience is that university is a hot bed of left wing activism and other views are not permitted
215
16/02/2021 16:00:22 3 1
bbc
For those who are not familiar with Jordan Peterson here he is talking about free speech,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44pERGAaKHw
.
246
16/02/2021 16:18:21 14 1
bbc
Isn't a " free speech tsar" an oxymoron?

What is the remit and how do they decide what is offensive or not or to who?
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".

Some people need to calm down a bit and learn how to have a rational discussion without being offended where no offence is meant. As for the bigots, they can easily be dismantled with debate.
491
16/02/2021 19:45:46 6 0
bbc
I think this problem is very real and exists across the public spectrum, not just universities. This quote from the article "Freedom of speech doesn't mean you have freedom from consequences" exemplifies the problem. Consequences in the modern world mean having your name dragged through the mud on social media and much worse when you have a view that doesn't fit with popular consensus.
632
17/02/2021 01:53:10 1 0
bbc
Their house their rules as it is your house your rules. Student unions have their own premises and so can invite or uninvite who they please. I may not agree with it but it is their right. I personally draw the line at directs threats or incitement to violence, terrorism and slander outside of that anything goes. Apparently I am lefty so not all lefties are tyrants.
733
17/02/2021 09:19:25 0 0
bbc
Yeah those poor famous people with absolutely no platform who we’ve never heard from again ??
47
16/02/2021 14:50:31 9 7
bbc
The sad thing is it is those that go or have been to university that tend to be anti free speech, the whole 'no platforming' is a university thing! They are the problem.
95
16/02/2021 15:15:46 2 2
bbc
The notion that university graduates tend to be anti free speech is not only ridiculous, it's repugnant as well Millions of British people from all walks of life and backgrounds have attended uni and amen to that! Even nearly all the cabinet and opposition front bench went to uni. I doubt you even believe your own post but merely have issues with young people
224
16/02/2021 16:03:33 2 1
bbc
Generalising yes but on the whole the entire pc religious culture a top down imposition. Those in gov as you point out largely the uni going rich middle class imposing their ideas and attitudes including by laws against the lower non uni goers who tended to not have any time for their effete beliefs. Like the religion it is, getting on requires public display of adherence to the dominant religion.
70
16/02/2021 15:02:14 3 2
bbc
I went to university and wasn’t aware of no-platforming. Then again, I was never involved in any political society. As for free speech advocates, I’ll point to that QAnon nutter in Congress (Green). Wearing a face mask saying she’s being silenced whilst talking in Congress on National TV. If people like her didn’t exist, you couldn’t have made them up ??
96
16/02/2021 15:17:22 2 1
bbc
You won't know they are 'nutters' unless they are free to say what they like. I guess, not into USA politics, she got closed down on some social media? Or the very nasty ruling class pressure to attack free speech platforms for the 'not one of us' lot. Only full free speech reveals the nutters.
72
16/02/2021 15:03:39 7 4
bbc
I wonder how many of those on here (a public forum) complaining about their freedom of expression being curtailed realise that it is Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights that explicitly protects that right?
97
16/02/2021 15:17:31 5 3
bbc
Er, no, there's no such thing as 'human rights'.
What defends the rights of British subjects is the British common Law system rather than foreign importations.
200
16/02/2021 15:54:30 2 1
bbc
The European Convention on Human Rights was signed in Rome on 4 November 1950. The UK was the first signatory to the Convention. The Convention entered into force on 3 September 1953.
48
16/02/2021 14:51:25 4 8
bbc
If hate speech in this country is banned how have the BBC got away with every single report on Donald Trump in the last 4 years. They should be ashamed of their reporting record.
98
16/02/2021 15:17:59 1 0
bbc
I exercise my right of free speech - Mr D Trump is a misogynist, a racist, a liar, an inciter to violence because he does not like democracy and a thoroughly bad egg! You only have to listen and read his own words to know this. You are perfectly welcome to disagree – that is called free speech!
150
16/02/2021 15:40:17 0 0
bbc
Exactly! And sadly, you are right in your assessment of Trump and the national debate in the USA is much the poorer for such an individual ever becoming president of that fabulous nation
What is hate speech?
I fear that the streets of South East London are terrorised by gangs of predominantly young black youths dealing drugs. Whenever there is a stabbing crime we should immediately be told the ethnicity of all those involved so that we can accurately gauge the extent to which this true - or not.
Is that hate speech, or merely expressing a rational view?
Removed
99
16/02/2021 15:18:10 3 1
bbc
Really hasn't got anything to do with the topic, has it? It's more of a rant.

If you go back down the centuries (well before immigration) you will find that in poor areas there has always been gang violence.

We wouldn't be watching programmes like Peaky Blinders if what I have just said isn't true.

But you would rather make a big issue out of skin colour, than one of socioeconomics.
91
16/02/2021 15:14:39 3 5
bbc
I tend to think there is a serious problem with free speech, not just in universities but in the public sector and in the country in general. Its almost like we have George Orwell's 'thought police'.

I'm a centralist floating voter, and it seems that some far left views are acceptable, slightly to the right views aren't. Some things which are reasonable and logical are not acceptable.
100
16/02/2021 15:18:14 6 2
bbc
I just cannot understand how you can claim this.

We are a right wing country, we have a right wing government, the majority of the press is right wing, and right wing commentators, think tanks etc are everywhere.

How can you claim that "slightly to the right views" aren't acceptable. It's demonstrable nonsense.