Tesco tells chancellor to hit online rivals with sales tax
08/02/2021
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Boss Ken Murphy has asked Chancellor Rishi Sunak for a "level playing field" when it comes to tax.
People do want the high street otherwise all of the shops would close overnight. Don't be fooled by this "on-line convenience" mantra. I have recently had a number of bad experiences with on-line, something which has crept in over recent years (too much demand, not able to cope??). I have been purchasing online for well over 10 years, but it's starting to creak. Always pick high street where I can
People used to use high streets until supermarkets moved out of town and started to sell everything.
Sure all of the small bricks and mortar retailers who survive by way of ancillary online sales will be thrilled by another tax burden. And if it's on sales, just remember that quite a high % of Amazon sales aren't actually made by Amazon.
Sure all of the small bricks and mortar retailers who survive by way of ancillary online sales will be thrilled by another tax burden. And if it's on sales, just remember that quite a high % of Amazon sales aren't actually made by Amazon.
People are gluttons for convenience, the question is at what price. Not just for bricks and mortar shops, but other aspects like whether the online store pays taxes fairly, or respects your privacy.
No doubt someone will point out that what Amazon / Boots / Branson etc are doing is legal.
Well yes, it may be legal. But it stinks.
Why won't the government change this situation ?
Well yes, it may be legal. But it stinks.
Why won't the government change this situation ?
What stinks? Oh, capitalism, right... how dare one company make a profit when another does not.
How do they change it? It's massively complex and the whole world needs to change. A company in Germany lists a £500 laptop on Amazon which is then dropshipped from Taiwan, the payment is processed through Canada and the customer lives in Wales. How much tax should be paid in the UK on that transaction then?
They lack the talent required but they worry about being out of step with other countries. Should tax on revenue accrued in the UK but the tax charge needs to be fairly small to start with. The issue is transfer pricing where profit is essentially moved to lower tax jurisdictions via charging the target country for HR, Legal, IT development services etc.
It is vastly better for us consumers!
No sane person battles out to high streets for goods.
It has zero to do with any tax avoidance it is not even about price like stupid street shops think!
High streets are revolting, impossible places to get to and find any goods you actually want.
No sane person battles out to high streets for goods.
It has zero to do with any tax avoidance it is not even about price like stupid street shops think!
High streets are revolting, impossible places to get to and find any goods you actually want.
Because if they tax businesses fairly they lose party donations and upset the voters when prices rise to cover the businesses "loses".
Amazon simply has a different business model to Tesco, Morrisons etc. If you don't like what they do then don't use them. We could take the Burma model & just shut the Internet completely & return to a high street of the 1950's.
Being in government is about winning votes. Increasing prices for all people across the board is not a vote winner. But it would be typically the sort of policy put forward b y Labour, who would then spend another five years wondering why they have lost yet another general election!
Why change it if it isn't broken? Yes Tesco are suffering, so what? Better that they improve their inline presence and adapt. It's not the online stores' fault that Tesco chose to be locked into ridiculously long leases, besides it's not like amazon are completing for their business. Yes they offer fresh fruit etc, but people will still buy from supermarkets.
Learn to adapt!
Learn to adapt!
That's the same Tesco that sells cards when the card shops are forced to close, sells clothes when clothes shops are forced to close etc etc. All of the supermarkets have profited greatly from the lockdowns and should be included in any windfall tax imposed.
You know this tax would apply on their online sales too right?
My Tescos has had it's clothes section closed since the lockdown started as it's non-essential.
You do know taxes pay for the public services used by the people that live in the country, as more sales transfer to online giants like Amazon how will the public services be paid for, eventually something will have to change.
Not relevant.
Old fashioned shops are dying out way before covid. Because they are horrible places to attempt to find and get any goods at all, when and if they are ever open. Unlike on line, open and perfect any hour of the day or night.
High street shops are like the canals, quaint, not useful. Museum, historical, attractions if anything at all.
Old fashioned shops are dying out way before covid. Because they are horrible places to attempt to find and get any goods at all, when and if they are ever open. Unlike on line, open and perfect any hour of the day or night.
High street shops are like the canals, quaint, not useful. Museum, historical, attractions if anything at all.
If you kept buying your cards from the local shop they would have stayed in business.
Hope they are going to apply this tax to their delivery services too.
Instead of creating another tax that hurts consumers, how about actually doing something about the rates paid. Only only does that help balance things out, but it also removes a barrier to entry that might put off startups and so on.
It isn't tax evasion, though, is it.
They are paying full rates for the building in which they operate. Why would they pay rates for a shop when they're not operating from a shop.
They are paying full rates for the building in which they operate. Why would they pay rates for a shop when they're not operating from a shop.
What taxes are they evading?
What tax evasion?
If it's legal, it's not evasion. Get your facts right before spouting partisan nonsense.
Oh please, tax avoidance is legal, tax evasion is illegal. If you have evidence that Tesco are evading taxes please contact the SFO.
No it’s tax evaders who like tax evasion regardless of political persuasion.
The problem is the loopholes of tax avoidance. Large sums of money disappearing to offshore accounts and holding companies taking franchise payments that magically match profits.
The problem is the loopholes of tax avoidance. Large sums of money disappearing to offshore accounts and holding companies taking franchise payments that magically match profits.
Yes, that's right ... this sort of thing never happened under Labour.
Oh, wait a minute .....
Oh, wait a minute .....
So point us towards one other country that has managed to tax these companies properly?
If you want to see how Amazon et al avoid tax you should look not at the Tories but at Europhile stalwarts like Luxemburg and Ireland, who boast high nominal tax rates but whose 'sweetheart' deals allow big online retailers to hide their profits from the taxman in all the other EU countries, as well as UK
If you want to see how Amazon et al avoid tax you should look not at the Tories but at Europhile stalwarts like Luxemburg and Ireland, who boast high nominal tax rates but whose 'sweetheart' deals allow big online retailers to hide their profits from the taxman in all the other EU countries, as well as UK
And Labour LOVE high taxes.
as do labour, they are all rich looking after the rich
People don't want high streets. If they did, they wouldn't be dying.
People want the best price and convenience of delivery. That happens online.
If you introduce an online sales tax to create a level playing field all you will do is raise prices but online will still win out on convenience. It won't abate the demise of physical shopping.
People want the best price and convenience of delivery. That happens online.
If you introduce an online sales tax to create a level playing field all you will do is raise prices but online will still win out on convenience. It won't abate the demise of physical shopping.
Unpatriotic? Oh dear, the "everything is made in Britain and it's top quality" fantasists are on the loose again.
Then 90% of the UK is unpatriotic then.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/07/almost-90-of-uk-shoppers-use-amazon-research-reveals
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/07/almost-90-of-uk-shoppers-use-amazon-research-reveals
Why? Nearly 50% of Amazon's sales in the UK are not actually made by Amazon. Sure some of those sellers may well be English,
A disability tax. Nice.
What taxes are they avoiding?
They call it the future?
Tax them then pass it onto the consumers, no free lunches UK has record debts to pay wracked up in 11 years.
Tax them then pass it onto the consumers, no free lunches UK has record debts to pay wracked up in 11 years.
Quite.
Pandora's Box, in relation to the facility of online shopping, was opened many years - and the in the last year has it has shown that it is a necessity.
If brick and mortar stores can't compete without tax inequality then maybe it's time for them to go.
Pandora's Box, in relation to the facility of online shopping, was opened many years - and the in the last year has it has shown that it is a necessity.
If brick and mortar stores can't compete without tax inequality then maybe it's time for them to go.
Is your suggestion that taxes should not be charged as they get passed to the consumer? Your wages get passed to the consumer so maybe you shouldnt be paid either? There is an option other than single flat tax for business and people and that is zero tax on business. If you are going down the second that must be ALL business. BUT dividends must be taxed exactly the same way as income.
11 years? Labour were handed a booming economy in 1997 and handed it back destroyed in 2010.
Taxes are the people's charity.
Do the right thing
you know it makes sense
you know it makes sense
Tesco didn't care about the high street when they massively expanded their range nor did they when they moved out of town, both of which severely hampered the high street. Now they are having to work harder, they don't like it.
This should have been implemented years ago - will the government finally get their act together!??
Business rates need to be scrapped and replaced with a fee for services that the council provides (basically nothing in reality) and the only modern option - a sales tax. Yes the consumer pays, but we pay for any tax as where does the money come from for the company to pay their taxes - us! A company cannot really fiddle a sales invoice and so a sales tax is the best and fairest option.
Agree with having a tax, bricks and mortar sites simply cannot compete with the well oiled Amazon machine.
I'd make the tax higher and only for companies that reach a particular threshold of sales.
Use the proceeds to provide rate relief for small businesses, the unique kind that offer character to a place. Don't want our high streets to be like the homogenised North American ones.
I'd make the tax higher and only for companies that reach a particular threshold of sales.
Use the proceeds to provide rate relief for small businesses, the unique kind that offer character to a place. Don't want our high streets to be like the homogenised North American ones.
So you would have supported horse drawn carriage manufactures getting handouts from the sale of internal combustion engine vehicles? No business has a right to make a profit just because they used to and there are other options for hight streets than retail - why are GP surgeries not on high-streets, and dentists and more cheists etc... people need more than fifty quid jumpers.
Every article someone parrots this line but no one ever says what they are avoiding. Amazingly, business rates are more onerous for high street/prime out of town retail locations than for warehouses in the middle of nowhere. What annoys me is the nerve of Tesco who didn't bat an eyelid about the plight of the high street when they moved out of it and expanded their range massively.
Taxes are the people's charity.
Good luck with getting a reply to that question. If anyone is struggling to see examples of tax evasion in the real world, have a look at the corporate structure of the Guardian.
Tesco are simply worried about losing market share to Amazon (and rightly so) but there is a bigger issue at stake - and that is providing sustainable, ethical, affordable and quality produce.
As long as these companies insist on stocking kumquats from China (or whatever), supporting slave labour, wrapping them in plastic and transporting them across the planet our world is not going to improve!
As long as these companies insist on stocking kumquats from China (or whatever), supporting slave labour, wrapping them in plastic and transporting them across the planet our world is not going to improve!
Tesco weren't so concerned when supermarkets were killing local shops.
Councils killed Local Shops by charging High Rents. Plus Many in Villages struggle to get to the shops. Thanks to Conservative cuts to Bus Services.
No one wanted small shops they were less efficient, in our time and money. Same as now on line is better by being much more convenient. Change to better is good for all an£ never a thing to deter by prejudiced tax.
Much indirect tax is paid by online retailers. There is tax/NI on staff wages. Tax on packaging. Tax on fuel for delivery. Tax on vehicles. Rates on warehousing and distribution depots etc. Not to mention VAT.
Not a fan of Tesco but the point that Online Tech giants are avoiding £billions in tax is a genuine issue.
The UK economy is moving online (retail, advertising, media, etc) and the tax man is failing collect the same % tax on underlying profits... because the tech giants hide and transfer them off shore. Time to fix this or UK public will loose out and have to fund the gap.
The UK economy is moving online (retail, advertising, media, etc) and the tax man is failing collect the same % tax on underlying profits... because the tech giants hide and transfer them off shore. Time to fix this or UK public will loose out and have to fund the gap.
Yep, this online tax proposal is incredibly stupid. There are thousands of small online shops run by independents, slapping a 2% tax on them they can't afford that doesn't apply to the likes of Tesco will be their death knell. This won't fix the Amazon problem, councils charging fairer business rates and landlords reducing extortionate city centre rent is what's needed to save the high street.
Excellent retort
SOOOOOOPA comment
Don't forget that Tesco has a significant online presence these days. That means that they are voting to tax themselves... Wonderful.
Dave
Actually you make a good point and not only Tesco but all other super market chains. So I suppose what goes around comes around. However there is a very serious side to this when a high street dies through lake of support so do the funds which keeps a towns amenities and services alive. So in this case maybe they are right this discrimination in favour of online companies rates should stop.
Actually you make a good point and not only Tesco but all other super market chains. So I suppose what goes around comes around. However there is a very serious side to this when a high street dies through lake of support so do the funds which keeps a towns amenities and services alive. So in this case maybe they are right this discrimination in favour of online companies rates should stop.
Then 90% of the UK is unpatriotic then.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/07/almost-90-of-uk-shoppers-use-amazon-research-reveals
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/07/almost-90-of-uk-shoppers-use-amazon-research-reveals
When shops collapse everyone is very quick to say "oh that is a shame, I remember when... I used to... I loved...".
All past tense.
And you wonder why the high street is dying.
All past tense.
And you wonder why the high street is dying.
The high street dies when the likes of Debenhams and M&S leave (ask Grimsby people about what befell Freeman Street when M&S went). Also when the pubs & cafés are forced to close.
This is just retail evolution. Tesco's put all the other high st retailers in trouble when they bought in megastores selling everything. Now Amazon is doing it to them. Sure one day someone else will come along and beat Amazon.
Retail changes and evolves or we would still be bartering out of caves!
Retail changes and evolves or we would still be bartering out of caves!
And in Victorian times the department stores that we're now mourning must have driven many independent drapers, candlestick-makers and many more out of business.
Government and local authorities always need to adapt ways of taxation to keep up with changing times.
Government and local authorities always need to adapt ways of taxation to keep up with changing times.
Amazon has Web Services (accounting for 58% of profit) offering it's services to the likes of the US government, Alphabet has Deepmind with NHS contracts. The tech companies will weave themselves within government and society to a point where I don't see them failing unless something drastic happens to the way we live.
It's interesting that supermarkets are backing this when they are at the same time benefitting as far as alcohol sales are concerned and are probably responsible for the closure of a whole host of pub businesses who are undoubtedley going to be hit even harder with the pandemic
They call it the future?
Tax them then pass it onto the consumers, no free lunches UK has record debts to pay wracked up in 11 years.
Tax them then pass it onto the consumers, no free lunches UK has record debts to pay wracked up in 11 years.
Stores are needed for social for social interaction something that's being lost since 2000.
Well said, its like horse drawn carriage manufactures demanding increased tax on these darn internal combustion engines. Dont forget the BBC champions the cause for the high-street and cash, #livingInThePast.
But aren't they having to compete against tax inequality now? Amazon etc. seem to be quite effective about paying next to nothing on their UK turnover because electronically it happens abroad.
Perhaps we'll see town centre rates fall and out of town rates rise, although that's as likely to getTesco as Amazon.
Perhaps we'll see town centre rates fall and out of town rates rise, although that's as likely to getTesco as Amazon.
While we're at it,
can local councils cease the habit of incentivising chains to the high street
via £100,000 sweeteners using resident's council taxes?
can local councils cease the habit of incentivising chains to the high street
via £100,000 sweeteners using resident's council taxes?
and stop using council taxes to invest in other authorities'
doomed shopping centre vanity projects
doomed shopping centre vanity projects
Why increase taxes on Amazon etc.
Why not reduce business rates on shops?
Why is the answer always to tax success?
Why not level the playing field by reducing tax for a change?
Why not reduce business rates on shops?
Why is the answer always to tax success?
Why not level the playing field by reducing tax for a change?
Problem being we have a generation that just think life is all online, using your legs is really good for your health. Tax them.
9 in 10 use Amazon services. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/07/almost-90-of-uk-shoppers-use-amazon-research-reveals
You think 9 in 10 adults are the young generation?
You think 9 in 10 adults are the young generation?
Yup, seems fair. Also though the likes of Tesco etc. should pay profit tax in the UK like the corner shop does. So single flat tax on all income for people and business works best with a single flat benefit for all legally here. Two numbers, easy to see which gvmt is doing the best job AND the whole dss/tax could be on a single lap top in number 11. All brilliant.
Coming from Tesco, that rich.
Personally, I hope it hits them in the pocket.
My town had thriving High Street small food businesses, grocers, bakers etc., but nearly all gone now thanks to Tesco, then by the addition of Aldi.
Maybe Tesco should put some of their profits into regenerating the High street instead of whinging about the competition.
Personally, I hope it hits them in the pocket.
My town had thriving High Street small food businesses, grocers, bakers etc., but nearly all gone now thanks to Tesco, then by the addition of Aldi.
Maybe Tesco should put some of their profits into regenerating the High street instead of whinging about the competition.
But it saved consumers money.
But governments just ignored.
Those that couldn't travel
Cost on environment
and the now replacement of smaller shops with Tesco Local et al that charge higher prices than supermarkets, like well local shops did.
Got to keep that profit up so they can falsely report it you know.
But governments just ignored.
Those that couldn't travel
Cost on environment
and the now replacement of smaller shops with Tesco Local et al that charge higher prices than supermarkets, like well local shops did.
Got to keep that profit up so they can falsely report it you know.
Just as bad is that they have they're small Tesco, Sainsburys etc and have the cheek to charge higher prices for the same products.
While we're at it,
can local councils cease the habit of incentivising chains to the high street
via £100,000 sweeteners using resident's council taxes?
can local councils cease the habit of incentivising chains to the high street
via £100,000 sweeteners using resident's council taxes?
I own a small shop and this last 10 months or so has been devastating... I will not be able to reopen... 16 years of successful trade destroyed...This pandemic has laid this uneven playing field wide open. It was tough before, with how this has been "managed" and the clear bias demonstrated - this in power may say they want a high street etc, I fear it's too late, the damage is done.
The damage was done a long time ago. The problem is that none of us want to take the responsibility, but for all we point at the big boys - Amazon etc, the simple truth is if we had continued to shop on the high street instead of online, the high street would still be thriving. We can blame who we want, but the truth is, the demise of the high street is down to each and every one of us!
Problem being we have a generation that just think life is all online, using your legs is really good for your health. Tax them.
9 in 10 use Amazon services. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/07/almost-90-of-uk-shoppers-use-amazon-research-reveals
You think 9 in 10 adults are the young generation?
You think 9 in 10 adults are the young generation?
Problem being we have a generation that just think life is all online, using your legs is really good for your health. Tax them.
Agree on this : online does have major advantages over physical stores.
'Levelling up' of some kind is required : a mix perhaps of a tax and certainly rates reform. Landlords will also have to be more realistic.
'Levelling up' of some kind is required : a mix perhaps of a tax and certainly rates reform. Landlords will also have to be more realistic.
What taxes are they avoiding?
Every article someone parrots this line but no one ever says what they are avoiding. Amazingly, business rates are more onerous for high street/prime out of town retail locations than for warehouses in the middle of nowhere. What annoys me is the nerve of Tesco who didn't bat an eyelid about the plight of the high street when they moved out of it and expanded their range massively.
If I cannot buy on the High St., clothing, shoes and books, I will just have to start making my own, as I can not buy them on line as I am not able to try them on. They could always bring in a new classification for business rates on the online traders warehouses.
Tesco is very lucky, they can still sell clothes, cards etc , whilst many smaller shops only selling these goods are forced to close.
So give it a rest Tesco
So give it a rest Tesco
They don't though as they are non-essential purchases. The clothes section of my local Tescos has been closed since Christmas.
The smaller shops all could have bought some tins of beans and put them in the window... then open for selling groceries so could be open. I do know some places where the owner actually did it - its legal and in my opinion totally moral.
People don't want high streets. If they did, they wouldn't be dying.
People want the best price and convenience of delivery. That happens online.
If you introduce an online sales tax to create a level playing field all you will do is raise prices but online will still win out on convenience. It won't abate the demise of physical shopping.
People want the best price and convenience of delivery. That happens online.
If you introduce an online sales tax to create a level playing field all you will do is raise prices but online will still win out on convenience. It won't abate the demise of physical shopping.
People do want the high street otherwise all of the shops would close overnight. Don't be fooled by this "on-line convenience" mantra. I have recently had a number of bad experiences with on-line, something which has crept in over recent years (too much demand, not able to cope??). I have been purchasing online for well over 10 years, but it's starting to creak. Always pick high street where I can
Quite.
Pandora's Box, in relation to the facility of online shopping, was opened many years - and the in the last year has it has shown that it is a necessity.
If brick and mortar stores can't compete without tax inequality then maybe it's time for them to go.
Pandora's Box, in relation to the facility of online shopping, was opened many years - and the in the last year has it has shown that it is a necessity.
If brick and mortar stores can't compete without tax inequality then maybe it's time for them to go.
certainly true for the high street, not so sure about edge of town supermarkets.
An online sales tax does not help high street businesses struggling with high rates.
Retail parks would be the ultimate winner as they already pay lower rates vs. the high street.
Fix the rates system - don't create another tax.
Retail parks would be the ultimate winner as they already pay lower rates vs. the high street.
Fix the rates system - don't create another tax.
The solution is obvious, get rid of business rates and increase VAT. The population would not like that (myself included) - then again I dont want to subsidize the high street either. I dont want to use the high street why would I want to pay for it? If nobody wants to pay for it, why subsidise it?
I agree with you guys. The High St is gone, lost to superstores, on-line shopping and out-of-town shopping centres. There is no longer any advantage in being in town centres and therefore their rates should be reduced. The only issue is how will the lost Inland Revenue be made-up? Either we all pay more income tax or a new revenue line is needed e.g. on-line sales tax. Discuss :)
oh the irony
It is rather pot/kettle, when Tesco et al did to small independent shops and smaller supermarket chains what they are complaining about Amazon etc doing now. But then, we're not supposed to remember that are we?
A business should be able to operate anywhere. Take for instance an app that lives on a server, yet could make millions/billions and pay no business rates as it doesn't have a physical premises. Business rates are based on an outdated 20th century system whereby businesses had physical properties of a certain type, in particular places. It isn't suitable today and needs to be scrapped/replaced.
Very few people shop online because it's cheaper I think. It's the convenience more than anything. I can either drive to the local high street, pay for parking and then spend ages walking from shop to shop in the vain hope they have what I want or I can go online and get exactly what I want delivered in 24 hours.
Why do the shops have to survive? Did tesco stop selling cards when card shops pointed out they would make less money? Did horse drawn carriage makers get handouts from internal combustion sales? You could put something else on the high street if shops close, e.g. GP surgeries as you have good transport links etc...
Actually shop are deluding themselves if they think people shop on line instead of the high street is down to price.
On line is better, easier, more pleasant, you can actually find what you want, it is delivered to the door, you need run no expensive car, it is vastly less polluting than people going to get goods too.
Shops are the 2nd/3rd best way to get any goods. Mail order is poss better.
On line is better, easier, more pleasant, you can actually find what you want, it is delivered to the door, you need run no expensive car, it is vastly less polluting than people going to get goods too.
Shops are the 2nd/3rd best way to get any goods. Mail order is poss better.
In real terms business rates have been increased by over 37% since their introduction in1990. HMG now takes about 1/3 of the combined rent/rates paid by occupiers so effectively they are getting 1/3rd of the value of all commercial property in the UK. Furthermore if rents fall the rateable value only decreases slowly so many shops are now let at very low rents but the rates stay very high.
The online business model has created a far more consumer friendly environment but has left the various tax authorities across the World lagging behind the technology
A simple transactional tax at the point of sale (much like the consumer tax on fuel) should be introduced thus overcoming the arguments as to corporate residency and company tax liabilities
A simple transactional tax at the point of sale (much like the consumer tax on fuel) should be introduced thus overcoming the arguments as to corporate residency and company tax liabilities
There already is a transactional tax at point of sale, its called VAT. :-) All very well on-street businesses complaining about the unfairness of online companies, but they failed to adapt to a changing market, and are now facing the consequences. History is full of the skeletons of past businesses that failed as a result.
Another layer of VAT you mean that is simply collected by Amazon?
Amazon and their like are all about destroying the competition, then they will hike prices and force you to take up Amazon Prime or the alternative will be no free P&P. Don't come on her whinging when that happens, the warning signs are clear to see. As for Tesco, they too grew by blowing away the small independant stores. A bit rich. They also feel the bite from Aldi and Lidl, hence the ads.
A business should be able to operate anywhere. Take for instance an app that lives on a server, yet could make millions/billions and pay no business rates as it doesn't have a physical premises. Business rates are based on an outdated 20th century system whereby businesses had physical properties of a certain type, in particular places. It isn't suitable today and needs to be scrapped/replaced.
You're missing the point. It could be people collaborating from home. Why should a business like I used as an example not have to pay taxes (which business rates are) and other businesses have to? Fewer businesses have/need the physical presence that business rates were designed for and that's the issue.
So a person in Germany writes the app, it's maintained by a team in India, transactions are processed through Luxembourg and Canada. The virtual cloud it runs on is spread over several different countries. Where does the tax for someone buying that app get paid? That's the reality of the modern world. We need a global tax system but it's not in the interest of many Governments.
Really people. The situation is simple. Companies are skipping paying taxes (legally, various gvmts have people owning part of these big companies) by offshoring profit. I pay tax on my income, companies should do the same. Money comes from the consumer to the company, they pay the same rate of tax on that as I do. Thats simple and fair. Avoids offshoring profit.
It's not that simple. Amazon is a US company and that's where they pay the majority of their tax. Should British companies that sell to Saudi Arabia, India, China etc pay all their tax there rather than here?
People don't want high streets. If they did, they wouldn't be dying.
People want the best price and convenience of delivery. That happens online.
If you introduce an online sales tax to create a level playing field all you will do is raise prices but online will still win out on convenience. It won't abate the demise of physical shopping.
People want the best price and convenience of delivery. That happens online.
If you introduce an online sales tax to create a level playing field all you will do is raise prices but online will still win out on convenience. It won't abate the demise of physical shopping.
People used to use high streets until supermarkets moved out of town and started to sell everything.
Sure all of the small bricks and mortar retailers who survive by way of ancillary online sales will be thrilled by another tax burden. And if it's on sales, just remember that quite a high % of Amazon sales aren't actually made by Amazon.
Sure all of the small bricks and mortar retailers who survive by way of ancillary online sales will be thrilled by another tax burden. And if it's on sales, just remember that quite a high % of Amazon sales aren't actually made by Amazon.
Ironic that Tesco (along with others having all but ruined high street shopping with out of town superstores) is complaining that on-line trading are putting them out of business!
I remember articles with headlines like "high streets too crammed, nowhere to park, too many people" - why would you want everyone to go to the same small place to shop? Its stupid, you end up paying a fiver to park for what? It made sense 100 years ago, when only 5% of the population could afford to buy new things from shops.
Yes, it's inevitable. Activity will always flow to where the cost is lowest.
High streets face doom unless they can reinvent themselves.
High streets face doom unless they can reinvent themselves.
Yes but to a certain extent you still had a choice, it was not a single supermarket.
Unchecked Amazon will be a global monopoly and about the only thing you will still be able to buy from anyone else will be a burger. They are worse than any supermarket and have one goal, global domination. Amazon should never have been permitted to move into food and pharmacy.
Unchecked Amazon will be a global monopoly and about the only thing you will still be able to buy from anyone else will be a burger. They are worse than any supermarket and have one goal, global domination. Amazon should never have been permitted to move into food and pharmacy.
That's the same Tesco that sells cards when the card shops are forced to close, sells clothes when clothes shops are forced to close etc etc. All of the supermarkets have profited greatly from the lockdowns and should be included in any windfall tax imposed.
Not the point, supermarkets are making storming profits right now and not only because of online.
A Treasury spokesperson said: "We want to see thriving High Streets..." Why?
What taxes are they evading?
Not a difficult one to solve, get rid of business rates and then apply a sales tax to all sales, that way larger organisations who sell more will pay more.
Sales tax is just like VAT. It's the customer that pays in the end not the business.
oh the irony
Not a difficult one to solve, get rid of business rates and then apply a sales tax to all sales, that way larger organisations who sell more will pay more.
The customer pays all tax, sale, rates, corp tax, or anything else - it's all factored in to the price you pay.
A simple sales tax makes more sense, as does a flat rate income tax with lower incomes supported by personal allowances.
A simple sales tax makes more sense, as does a flat rate income tax with lower incomes supported by personal allowances.
True. But then, as has been said elsewhere, once Amazon etc have the virtual monopoly, they will start raising prices anyway, so the customer will pay regardless. So many just go straight to Amazon, assume it will be cheaper, and don't even look elsewhere, that it has started already.
You're missing the point. It could be people collaborating from home. Why should a business like I used as an example not have to pay taxes (which business rates are) and other businesses have to? Fewer businesses have/need the physical presence that business rates were designed for and that's the issue.
Why should online stores pay more tax ? Why do the retailers move their operations more online too ? Reduce the number of similar lines etc and reduce the size of their stores and go back to High Street locations but with better parking - the Councils have a role to play here too - it is not purely down to the retailers - joined up thinking is needed !
The UK will do nothing about tax dodging; To many of our top politicians (across all parties) have overseas interests & money hidden away around the globe for tax avoidance purposes.
For our leaders to implement anti-tax dodging methods they would have to sacrifice some of their personal wealth.
For our leaders to implement anti-tax dodging methods they would have to sacrifice some of their personal wealth.
I own a small shop and this last 10 months or so has been devastating... I will not be able to reopen... 16 years of successful trade destroyed...This pandemic has laid this uneven playing field wide open. It was tough before, with how this has been "managed" and the clear bias demonstrated - this in power may say they want a high street etc, I fear it's too late, the damage is done.
The damage was done a long time ago. The problem is that none of us want to take the responsibility, but for all we point at the big boys - Amazon etc, the simple truth is if we had continued to shop on the high street instead of online, the high street would still be thriving. We can blame who we want, but the truth is, the demise of the high street is down to each and every one of us!
True but austerity policies has hit the high street badly. Prior to it low income groups would spend a day in town with a bit of cash they had, now people have to pay exorbitant cost of living hikes and live with cuts. No money to go to the high street any more.
Furthermore many people have higher debt today than in the halcyon decades after the War.
Furthermore many people have higher debt today than in the halcyon decades after the War.
Sure it is, and why? Because we all want to pay less for what we buy. Besides, how many times can you honestly say you enjoy walking up and down the high street in the rain to 5 different small shops when you can click buy on Amazon? Talk to my mum, she loves everything being delivered!
I gave up climbing over drunks/druggies in the shop centre car park with inadequate lighting, and stopped paying excessive fees there to use the shops. That's what killed Croydon, that and greedy Councillors ahnd in glove with developers who fleeced them without mercy.Now town centre is dead, offices have gone, car parks even more squalid, why we don't shop in town any more, that's what killed it.
Really people. The situation is simple. Companies are skipping paying taxes (legally, various gvmts have people owning part of these big companies) by offshoring profit. I pay tax on my income, companies should do the same. Money comes from the consumer to the company, they pay the same rate of tax on that as I do. Thats simple and fair. Avoids offshoring profit.
Stop taxing business premises & profit, simply increase VAT to be the single (variable)tax on goods/services sold and a tax on the value of goods exported, this way it can't be avoided.
The online business model has created a far more consumer friendly environment but has left the various tax authorities across the World lagging behind the technology
A simple transactional tax at the point of sale (much like the consumer tax on fuel) should be introduced thus overcoming the arguments as to corporate residency and company tax liabilities
A simple transactional tax at the point of sale (much like the consumer tax on fuel) should be introduced thus overcoming the arguments as to corporate residency and company tax liabilities
There already is a transactional tax at point of sale, its called VAT. :-) All very well on-street businesses complaining about the unfairness of online companies, but they failed to adapt to a changing market, and are now facing the consequences. History is full of the skeletons of past businesses that failed as a result.
Tesco didn't care about the high street when they massively expanded their range nor did they when they moved out of town, both of which severely hampered the high street. Now they are having to work harder, they don't like it.
I agree with you guys. The High St is gone, lost to superstores, on-line shopping and out-of-town shopping centres. There is no longer any advantage in being in town centres and therefore their rates should be reduced. The only issue is how will the lost Inland Revenue be made-up? Either we all pay more income tax or a new revenue line is needed e.g. on-line sales tax. Discuss :)
A uniform tax rate based on the volume of a commercial property, be it shop or warehouse, would seem to do the trick. The (rateable) value of the property then becomes immaterial, and not subject to dispute.
Tax on stinky ICE vehicle fuel. It has not been put up for ages. Whack it up now.
NNDR does need an overhaul or at the least a rates revaluation. Problem is, although it may be good for the end retailer, I can't see the landlords going for it as I would hazard a guess that a downward revaluation would absolutely slaughter their balance sheets and breach covenants which would instigate a brand new set of problems.
They call it the future?
Tax them then pass it onto the consumers, no free lunches UK has record debts to pay wracked up in 11 years.
Tax them then pass it onto the consumers, no free lunches UK has record debts to pay wracked up in 11 years.
Is your suggestion that taxes should not be charged as they get passed to the consumer? Your wages get passed to the consumer so maybe you shouldnt be paid either? There is an option other than single flat tax for business and people and that is zero tax on business. If you are going down the second that must be ALL business. BUT dividends must be taxed exactly the same way as income.
Sour grapes from 20th century food retail ?
I'm sure businesses have objected. Do consumers get a say - I use amazon daily , amazon prime is fantastic value, especially if you watch amazon prime. why would I want to pay another adhoc tax -VAT is bad enough. John Lewis is competitive offering excellent post-purchase surface so I buy TVs, white goods from them in preference to Amazon -food M&S, Sainsburys - horses for courses.
Amazon and their like are all about destroying the competition, then they will hike prices and force you to take up Amazon Prime or the alternative will be no free P&P. Don't come on her whinging when that happens, the warning signs are clear to see. As for Tesco, they too grew by blowing away the small independant stores. A bit rich. They also feel the bite from Aldi and Lidl, hence the ads.
"our competitors should pay more tax" - not a new statement and not exactly unexpected, given how much profit supermarkets make this also seems more than a little dishonest. VAT is already 20%, seems high enough to me, this all seems to be a grand plan to force people to drive to physical shops, because "thats what we have always done" -you know its more environmentally friendly to deliver right?
Not a difficult one to solve, get rid of business rates and then apply a sales tax to all sales, that way larger organisations who sell more will pay more.
I agree that online shops should overall pay more tax (if they are aren't already) but why should they pay property tax if they're not occupying any property?
Running an online shop comes with a different cost structure (returns, cloud hosting etc) that physical shops don't incur, should Tesco etc, be forced to pay those too to create a "level playing field"?
Running an online shop comes with a different cost structure (returns, cloud hosting etc) that physical shops don't incur, should Tesco etc, be forced to pay those too to create a "level playing field"?
Coming from Tesco, that rich.
Personally, I hope it hits them in the pocket.
My town had thriving High Street small food businesses, grocers, bakers etc., but nearly all gone now thanks to Tesco, then by the addition of Aldi.
Maybe Tesco should put some of their profits into regenerating the High street instead of whinging about the competition.
Personally, I hope it hits them in the pocket.
My town had thriving High Street small food businesses, grocers, bakers etc., but nearly all gone now thanks to Tesco, then by the addition of Aldi.
Maybe Tesco should put some of their profits into regenerating the High street instead of whinging about the competition.
But it saved consumers money.
But governments just ignored.
Those that couldn't travel
Cost on environment
and the now replacement of smaller shops with Tesco Local et al that charge higher prices than supermarkets, like well local shops did.
Got to keep that profit up so they can falsely report it you know.
But governments just ignored.
Those that couldn't travel
Cost on environment
and the now replacement of smaller shops with Tesco Local et al that charge higher prices than supermarkets, like well local shops did.
Got to keep that profit up so they can falsely report it you know.
Taxation has two purposes
1. To provide gov’t revenue to fund our services
2. To encourage certain types of behaviour (sticks & carrots).
Our system penalises city centre bricks and mortar sales over online and out of town - this is no accident.
It is also no accident that it benefits big business over small independents.
Our taxation system is not fit for purpose and it's time for a rethink!
1. To provide gov’t revenue to fund our services
2. To encourage certain types of behaviour (sticks & carrots).
Our system penalises city centre bricks and mortar sales over online and out of town - this is no accident.
It is also no accident that it benefits big business over small independents.
Our taxation system is not fit for purpose and it's time for a rethink!
So a person in Germany writes the app, it's maintained by a team in India, transactions are processed through Luxembourg and Canada. The virtual cloud it runs on is spread over several different countries. Where does the tax for someone buying that app get paid? That's the reality of the modern world. We need a global tax system but it's not in the interest of many Governments.
My local Tesco supermarket has continued to sell clothes and all 'non essential' items, as has the huge M&S next door to it
In the Tesco stores around Manchester the clothing and greeting cards sections are still open, as are all other aisles containing non-essential goods .
It seems as if there's no conformity throughout the stores if your local store closed the above lanes.
I wonder why that is
It seems as if there's no conformity throughout the stores if your local store closed the above lanes.
I wonder why that is
You don't need clothes?
All the tesco superstores in Chester are still open for 'non essential' items and have been all the way through the lockdowns
Must be the only one, I've been in one in Lancashire and nothing is closed off
I think you must live in Wales - in the rest of the UK there have been no restrictions on selling "non-essential" goods. Although in the weather we're having, I think even nudists would consider clothes essential!
You are aware that its tax on amazon boohoo etc the companies that are killing the high street and local jobs do you think its fare that John Lewis who employs local people should pay 170 million business rates while amazon pays 14 million.
That's the same Tesco that sells cards when the card shops are forced to close, sells clothes when clothes shops are forced to close etc etc. All of the supermarkets have profited greatly from the lockdowns and should be included in any windfall tax imposed.
Problem being we have a generation that just think life is all online, using your legs is really good for your health. Tax them.
Good Point, I am sorry your right,
People want the best price and convenience of delivery. That happens online.
If you introduce an online sales tax to create a level playing field all you will do is raise prices but online will still win out on convenience. It won't abate the demise of physical shopping.