Vote on Premiership relegation delayed
05/02/2021 | sport | rugbyunion | 220
A crucial decision on whether to scrap relegation from the Premiership this season is delayed.
1
05/02/2021 10:45:13 4 2
bbc
If you're going to ring-fence it for one season only, you might as well not bother. Anyone who goes down will likely bounce back up anyway.

I'm with BT on this one.
2
05/02/2021 10:49:11 3 3
bbc
Can't see anybody cancelling their BT sport subs just because there's no relegation.

Not like there's anything else to do except watch the box, and there's nothing else on worth watching anyway.
3
05/02/2021 10:50:51 7 12
bbc
No relegation, promote Sarries and Pathfinders and ringfence the premiership.

Make a 12 team tier two with each teams having an affiliation with a top tier club to be used to give academy players experience, returning players fitness and clubs financial security.
12
05/02/2021 10:56:18 5 7
bbc
Should go back to the days when there was no league table. Rugby trying to copy football. The idea that it should be ringfenced is nonsense. Is it a sport or a money making cartel?
4
05/02/2021 10:51:14 8 13
bbc
If relegation was scrapped for this season, which I personally agree with, why would Saracens automatically be promoted back into the premiership for the 21/22 season?

Not much of a punishment for consistent rule breaking....
8
05/02/2021 10:54:16 12 15
bbc
So instead, you're doubling the punishment for no reason. They're already missing out on this season.
9
05/02/2021 10:54:32 6 3
bbc
Especially since they wouldn't have had to do a sod of work to achieve it.
10
05/02/2021 10:55:31 3 2
bbc
Where does it state Saracens would be automatically promoted?
166
05/02/2021 17:27:23 0 0
bbc
Prem rules state no top loaded contracts, and any promoted the club has to release its accounts to be viewed to prove that 1)they have not broken salary cap, 2)contracts have not been top loaded (£1.0m first year and on £20k second / 3rd year) 3)accounts have to comply with Prem rules for previous 2 years. woops that means some (one) team/s can not be promoted due to previous salary cap breaches!
5
05/02/2021 10:51:32 17 7
bbc
As a Gloucester supporter at the moment I want there to be no relegation this season!! If we had cancelled two matches because of Covid we would have an extra four points and be off the bottom--crazy. Cancel relegation, have a larger league next year and let us loyal supporters see a couple of extra matches to make up for what we have missed this past year.
7
05/02/2021 10:53:08 12 1
bbc
I follow Tigers, so can sympathise, but there's no point ring-fencing just for one season.
6
05/02/2021 10:53:00 8 2
bbc
The way things are going (re the Championship actually getting played) will there actually be anyone to promote for relegation to be an issue?
Or are Sarries just getting automatically back into the league.....
26
05/02/2021 11:14:27 6 4
bbc
Why are you assuming this ? Any team that wins the Championship should be promoted and any team that is not good enough to play in the Premiership should be relegated
208
05/02/2021 20:26:36 0 0
bbc
As many Championship teams as choose to play should make up the league. Winner takes all, no messing about with playoffs. If there must be a playoff, go two up, one down, winner goes up, bottom of the Prem plays off with second for the 'extra' place
5
05/02/2021 10:51:32 17 7
bbc
As a Gloucester supporter at the moment I want there to be no relegation this season!! If we had cancelled two matches because of Covid we would have an extra four points and be off the bottom--crazy. Cancel relegation, have a larger league next year and let us loyal supporters see a couple of extra matches to make up for what we have missed this past year.
7
05/02/2021 10:53:08 12 1
bbc
I follow Tigers, so can sympathise, but there's no point ring-fencing just for one season.
101
05/02/2021 13:08:56 1 1
bbc
So given that there have been no games in the Championship and none happening any time soon, how will promotion work?
148
05/02/2021 15:45:08 0 0
bbc
Me too. Not being relegated 2 seasons ago was a disaster as it would have cleared out once and for all the dross at the very top of our club. As it is, we're still stuck with them.
4
05/02/2021 10:51:14 8 13
bbc
If relegation was scrapped for this season, which I personally agree with, why would Saracens automatically be promoted back into the premiership for the 21/22 season?

Not much of a punishment for consistent rule breaking....
8
05/02/2021 10:54:16 12 15
bbc
So instead, you're doubling the punishment for no reason. They're already missing out on this season.
15
05/02/2021 11:00:59 2 4
bbc
My heart bleeds for them.
43
05/02/2021 11:30:59 4 4
bbc
They should not be allowed back into the Premiership until they show their accounts to the RFU! If that takes 10 years, thats up to them!
4
05/02/2021 10:51:14 8 13
bbc
If relegation was scrapped for this season, which I personally agree with, why would Saracens automatically be promoted back into the premiership for the 21/22 season?

Not much of a punishment for consistent rule breaking....
9
05/02/2021 10:54:32 6 3
bbc
Especially since they wouldn't have had to do a sod of work to achieve it.
4
05/02/2021 10:51:14 8 13
bbc
If relegation was scrapped for this season, which I personally agree with, why would Saracens automatically be promoted back into the premiership for the 21/22 season?

Not much of a punishment for consistent rule breaking....
10
05/02/2021 10:55:31 3 2
bbc
Where does it state Saracens would be automatically promoted?
13
05/02/2021 10:58:34 4 1
bbc
To be fair it doesnt, but the inference is there......
11
05/02/2021 10:56:11 21 1
bbc
Re >>> "With five matches this season already cancelled following coronavirus outbreaks, and points allocated to the teams involved, the clubs have argued that relegating a side in these circumstances would be unfair."

Well by that logic, then surely it would be unfair on other clubs in the Championship to promote 1 or 2 to the Premiership....

What's good for the goose etc etc
3
05/02/2021 10:50:51 7 12
bbc
No relegation, promote Sarries and Pathfinders and ringfence the premiership.

Make a 12 team tier two with each teams having an affiliation with a top tier club to be used to give academy players experience, returning players fitness and clubs financial security.
12
05/02/2021 10:56:18 5 7
bbc
Should go back to the days when there was no league table. Rugby trying to copy football. The idea that it should be ringfenced is nonsense. Is it a sport or a money making cartel?
27
05/02/2021 11:15:54 2 1
bbc
In Wales we used to have the Merit table, it was a farce... Ring fenced and for years the whipping boys were Glamorgan Wanderers

You need a league structure to grow quality players and clubs need ambition, no one can deny Exeter set a great example and all junior clubs should be able to aspire to follow

Ring fencing is ridiculous and sadly clubs that don’t perform drop but it’s a necessary evil
10
05/02/2021 10:55:31 3 2
bbc
Where does it state Saracens would be automatically promoted?
13
05/02/2021 10:58:34 4 1
bbc
To be fair it doesnt, but the inference is there......
24
05/02/2021 11:11:28 2 2
bbc
So why mention it ? What punishment would you have liked to have been handed out ?
14
05/02/2021 11:00:10 9 3
bbc
Why when the majority view is that players are being asked to play too much rugby in a year is there a possible proposal to increase the size of the league? Or could it possibly be to get a certain rule breaking team back. If it was increased and it looking likely that the Championship league is going to be postponed this year who will choose which teams get voted into the closed shop?
143
05/02/2021 15:25:51 0 0
bbc
Likelihood would be that Anglo Welsh Cup would be binned off again to reduce games and bring in mandatory rest periods to ensure same or near enough same game time for players.
8
05/02/2021 10:54:16 12 15
bbc
So instead, you're doubling the punishment for no reason. They're already missing out on this season.
15
05/02/2021 11:00:59 2 4
bbc
My heart bleeds for them.
35
05/02/2021 11:23:49 3 3
bbc
Or are you more worried you might be dragged into the relegation battle at the end of the season and Saracens take your place ? Leicester only avoided relegation last year due to Sarries being relegated. Maybe you should be great full !
16
05/02/2021 11:02:06 4 6
bbc
Relegate the bottom club simple
23
05/02/2021 11:11:14 3 5
bbc
Totally agree- those clubs that are relegation contenders are looking to use COVID cancellations and the fear that Saracens might be promoted are generally against relegation when the fact of the matter is they are not good enough to stay in the Premiership
17
05/02/2021 11:05:07 9 2
bbc
The issue with the current point allocation system is i can see teams with injuries facing a long trip, suddenly having positive tests and claiming 2 points, rather than playing and getting none
18
05/02/2021 11:05:27 4 17
bbc
For England’s sake Saracens need to go back up or Itoje et al find other clubs.
22
05/02/2021 11:09:15 14 6
bbc
Who cares about Sarries ?

If you can’t do the time.......
19
05/02/2021 11:06:48 0 1
bbc
So Busby gets a big say on the relegation issue?
20
05/02/2021 11:07:01 38 12
bbc
Is there any chance we can cancel relegation, but not expand the league next season? I can't see how we can have relegation with sides getting points for covid cancelled games, and then who do you promote? as there's been no games to decide it.

Frankly I can't help but think that if it weren't Saracens then we wouldn't be talking about automatically promoting sides.
175
Ben
05/02/2021 18:18:41 3 2
bbc
Absolutely spot on. As a Falcons fan, if it were us down there (again) I'm sure we'd be left there quite happily by the various blazers that still 'run' the game.
21
05/02/2021 11:08:25 13 2
bbc
Which way will Glawz vote ?

Tigers can’t be too cocky, Sarries bookkeeping saved them
18
05/02/2021 11:05:27 4 17
bbc
For England’s sake Saracens need to go back up or Itoje et al find other clubs.
22
05/02/2021 11:09:15 14 6
bbc
Who cares about Sarries ?

If you can’t do the time.......
32
05/02/2021 11:21:44 1 4
bbc
Nobody is talking about Sarries as this thread is about relegation from the Premiership
16
05/02/2021 11:02:06 4 6
bbc
Relegate the bottom club simple
23
05/02/2021 11:11:14 3 5
bbc
Totally agree- those clubs that are relegation contenders are looking to use COVID cancellations and the fear that Saracens might be promoted are generally against relegation when the fact of the matter is they are not good enough to stay in the Premiership
45
05/02/2021 11:31:31 0 2
bbc
At least they would be relegated on merit.
13
05/02/2021 10:58:34 4 1
bbc
To be fair it doesnt, but the inference is there......
24
05/02/2021 11:11:28 2 2
bbc
So why mention it ? What punishment would you have liked to have been handed out ?
126
05/02/2021 14:45:08 2 1
bbc
Removal of the titles they won whilst consistently, for a number of years!, breaking a rule they agreed to ....

Mentioned it due to the inference, and of course ‘everyone ‘ expects it!
25
05/02/2021 11:12:42 14 19
bbc
Seems to be a lot of peoples reasoning here is just anti Saracens whinging. They've been relegated. They're serving their punishment, they're not playing in the top flight! Any cheating, happened at board level. It's not like 'bloodgate' where Quins actively cheated in an on field game. They are a Prem Club whether you lot like it or not and hopefully they will be back automatically if necessary.
29
05/02/2021 11:17:58 14 8
bbc
"They are a Prem Club whether you lot like it "

Well, patently, they aren't, i don't see them in the Prem Table?

Any disruption to their (inevitable) promotion is tough. Their cheating and subsequent relegation coincided with a pandemic.

Own it Saracens.
37
05/02/2021 11:26:36 7 4
bbc
Off course it was cheating on the field. How do you think they could continue to play a team full of internationals every single week even when the 6N was taking place?
42
05/02/2021 11:30:38 5 5
bbc
But Sarries "board level" directly effected what happened on the field, as Sarries were able to field are much stronger team than they were allowed. As such they cheated in every on field game that had this team, so far wore than bloodgate, which was just one game
53
05/02/2021 11:42:22 3 6
bbc
Saracens players did actively cheat for years. They knew they were breaking the remuneration rules. Pure and simple.
It's exactly like Quins. Saracens cheated in every on field game by fielding players they shouldn't have on their books.
6
05/02/2021 10:53:00 8 2
bbc
The way things are going (re the Championship actually getting played) will there actually be anyone to promote for relegation to be an issue?
Or are Sarries just getting automatically back into the league.....
26
05/02/2021 11:14:27 6 4
bbc
Why are you assuming this ? Any team that wins the Championship should be promoted and any team that is not good enough to play in the Premiership should be relegated
12
05/02/2021 10:56:18 5 7
bbc
Should go back to the days when there was no league table. Rugby trying to copy football. The idea that it should be ringfenced is nonsense. Is it a sport or a money making cartel?
27
05/02/2021 11:15:54 2 1
bbc
In Wales we used to have the Merit table, it was a farce... Ring fenced and for years the whipping boys were Glamorgan Wanderers

You need a league structure to grow quality players and clubs need ambition, no one can deny Exeter set a great example and all junior clubs should be able to aspire to follow

Ring fencing is ridiculous and sadly clubs that don’t perform drop but it’s a necessary evil
28
05/02/2021 11:16:40 22 2
bbc
I may be confused but given the Premiership & Championship are out of sync, with no confirmed timescale for the latter, how would promotion & relegation even work? Presumably the only issue here is actually managing when & how Saracens get 'promoted'?
136
jay
05/02/2021 15:18:02 6 5
bbc
They will rig it so that they play one game against Ealing and call it a decider. The Premiership need Sarries as much as Sarries need them hence them overlooking obvious payments breeches for years until it became so bad.
25
05/02/2021 11:12:42 14 19
bbc
Seems to be a lot of peoples reasoning here is just anti Saracens whinging. They've been relegated. They're serving their punishment, they're not playing in the top flight! Any cheating, happened at board level. It's not like 'bloodgate' where Quins actively cheated in an on field game. They are a Prem Club whether you lot like it or not and hopefully they will be back automatically if necessary.
29
05/02/2021 11:17:58 14 8
bbc
"They are a Prem Club whether you lot like it "

Well, patently, they aren't, i don't see them in the Prem Table?

Any disruption to their (inevitable) promotion is tough. Their cheating and subsequent relegation coincided with a pandemic.

Own it Saracens.
haha yes I knew I'd catch some little fishies. Reality is they'll be back on top soon enough. Enjoy it while you can, try not to get too upset when they're champions. Again. Removed
30
Pip
05/02/2021 11:19:13 51 6
bbc
It won't be ruined, sorry 'Ring fenced' until Sarries are back up.

As a Chiefs fan, dead against ring fencing. There's a few other clubs in the SW would like to emulate our success, and why shouldn't they...........?
46
05/02/2021 11:31:55 18 3
bbc
Chiefs are a massive argument against ringfencing. Who's to say to the Pirates, sorry guys you'll never make it?
63
05/02/2021 11:51:28 14 1
bbc
As a Bath fan, my hopes and prayers are that relegation is scrapped this season, along with our Gloucester and Worcester cousins I imagine!

But I don't agree with it, as a grass roots rugby fan. And I think ring-fencing to appease the big money men would be nothing short of scandalous and another nail in the rugby integrity coffin.

As has been said, Exeter's story is exhibit A.
147
05/02/2021 15:35:47 0 0
bbc
The proposal seems to be to halt relegation for one season, but not promotion, therefore expanding the Premiership to 13 or 14 clubs. That seems to negate the Chiefs point made frequently on this thread - which would otherwise be a stand-alone argument that is very strong
170
05/02/2021 17:54:51 0 0
bbc
Which are these clubs? Other than Sarries and Ealing I am not sure there are any others who have a rich enough backer or even want promotion.
201
05/02/2021 20:19:47 2 0
bbc
Would Exeter be where they are now without the financial input of Tony Roe over the last 23 years ?
31
05/02/2021 11:21:01 49 10
bbc
a lot of comments ref Sarries - lets remember they chose relegation above disclosing their books .
100
05/02/2021 13:06:47 6 2
bbc
I don't think anyone other than the club and their fans want to see them get special treatment.

The point is more that they remain influential and rightly or wrongly, will almost certainly have a say in what happens.
189
05/02/2021 19:46:26 2 0
bbc
They refused because the other clubs ran a mile when asked to do the same thing !
209
05/02/2021 20:27:26 0 0
bbc
Because nobody else had to
22
05/02/2021 11:09:15 14 6
bbc
Who cares about Sarries ?

If you can’t do the time.......
32
05/02/2021 11:21:44 1 4
bbc
Nobody is talking about Sarries as this thread is about relegation from the Premiership
33
05/02/2021 11:21:56 3 17
bbc
Without Saracens in the Premiership, England will not win another match. Exeter have shown how they can't maintain any form. Bristol and Wasps are great teams but do not have any consistency. I can see why the BBC and other anti English rugby supporters would want Saracens kept in the Championship.
85
05/02/2021 12:23:01 1 2
bbc
Or! there are enough teams who, in time, could become as big as Saracens and therefore have the best English players play for them. Without the cheating obviously. if one team makes the entire league then there are massive problems.
34
05/02/2021 11:22:07 18 17
bbc
Ring fence it and keep the cheats out.......are you listening Saracens.
Tom no Brain more like. Removed
44
05/02/2021 11:31:29 0 3
bbc
Its been delayed so Saracens CAN get back in !!
210
05/02/2021 20:29:23 0 0
bbc
Few cheats left in there by Lord Dysons reckoning. The pact with the devil's was to not stir the pot and risk absolute chaos with about quarter of the Prem guilty of similar 'crimes'
15
05/02/2021 11:00:59 2 4
bbc
My heart bleeds for them.
35
05/02/2021 11:23:49 3 3
bbc
Or are you more worried you might be dragged into the relegation battle at the end of the season and Saracens take your place ? Leicester only avoided relegation last year due to Sarries being relegated. Maybe you should be great full !
34
05/02/2021 11:22:07 18 17
bbc
Ring fence it and keep the cheats out.......are you listening Saracens.
Tom no Brain more like. Removed
39
05/02/2021 11:29:21 0 2
bbc
Your wit is scintillating....look in a dictionary ??
25
05/02/2021 11:12:42 14 19
bbc
Seems to be a lot of peoples reasoning here is just anti Saracens whinging. They've been relegated. They're serving their punishment, they're not playing in the top flight! Any cheating, happened at board level. It's not like 'bloodgate' where Quins actively cheated in an on field game. They are a Prem Club whether you lot like it or not and hopefully they will be back automatically if necessary.
37
05/02/2021 11:26:36 7 4
bbc
Off course it was cheating on the field. How do you think they could continue to play a team full of internationals every single week even when the 6N was taking place?
38
05/02/2021 11:27:56 29 1
bbc
Good news.

Ring-fencing would make the entire second half of the season completely pointless for any clubs down the bottom end of the table.
206
05/02/2021 20:25:14 0 1
bbc
Trying for top 6 would be the carrot.
Tom no Brain more like. Removed
39
05/02/2021 11:29:21 0 2
bbc
Your wit is scintillating....look in a dictionary ??
58
05/02/2021 11:46:06 0 2
bbc
Lol I thought it was quite good.
40
05/02/2021 11:30:21 0 5
bbc
My money is on no relegation and bring Saracens back. Suits just working out how to sell it without looking like sell-outs.
57
05/02/2021 11:44:48 4 2
bbc
Surely if one team is admitted it should be Ealing as they recently beat Saracens.
41
05/02/2021 11:30:32 8 20
bbc
Lets be honest Saracens were caught, others have defiantly got away.
Saracens have paid the price they should not be punished twice
Scrap the salary cap
25
05/02/2021 11:12:42 14 19
bbc
Seems to be a lot of peoples reasoning here is just anti Saracens whinging. They've been relegated. They're serving their punishment, they're not playing in the top flight! Any cheating, happened at board level. It's not like 'bloodgate' where Quins actively cheated in an on field game. They are a Prem Club whether you lot like it or not and hopefully they will be back automatically if necessary.
42
05/02/2021 11:30:38 5 5
bbc
But Sarries "board level" directly effected what happened on the field, as Sarries were able to field are much stronger team than they were allowed. As such they cheated in every on field game that had this team, so far wore than bloodgate, which was just one game
67
05/02/2021 12:05:49 1 2
bbc
Exactly, look at some of the players other teams had to leave go because of making those hard choices with the cap, then look at who Sarries were playing when the the 6n's were on, still a full bench of seasoned internationals.
8
05/02/2021 10:54:16 12 15
bbc
So instead, you're doubling the punishment for no reason. They're already missing out on this season.
43
05/02/2021 11:30:59 4 4
bbc
They should not be allowed back into the Premiership until they show their accounts to the RFU! If that takes 10 years, thats up to them!
34
05/02/2021 11:22:07 18 17
bbc
Ring fence it and keep the cheats out.......are you listening Saracens.
44
05/02/2021 11:31:29 0 3
bbc
Its been delayed so Saracens CAN get back in !!
23
05/02/2021 11:11:14 3 5
bbc
Totally agree- those clubs that are relegation contenders are looking to use COVID cancellations and the fear that Saracens might be promoted are generally against relegation when the fact of the matter is they are not good enough to stay in the Premiership
45
05/02/2021 11:31:31 0 2
bbc
At least they would be relegated on merit.
30
Pip
05/02/2021 11:19:13 51 6
bbc
It won't be ruined, sorry 'Ring fenced' until Sarries are back up.

As a Chiefs fan, dead against ring fencing. There's a few other clubs in the SW would like to emulate our success, and why shouldn't they...........?
46
05/02/2021 11:31:55 18 3
bbc
Chiefs are a massive argument against ringfencing. Who's to say to the Pirates, sorry guys you'll never make it?
118
05/02/2021 14:23:27 0 1
bbc
Why not? Facts please.
172
05/02/2021 18:07:47 1 0
bbc
Chiefs are the ONLY positive. Many teams have tried and failed to make the jump. Many of them gave serious financial problems from doing so.
184
05/02/2021 19:11:56 0 0
bbc
Or Ealing? ??
47
05/02/2021 11:32:10 6 1
bbc
If covid is unfair on relegation then they should just scrap the league. By the same logic it's unfair on every other league position. So we can't have playoffs and we cant have league positions determining cup spots.
193
05/02/2021 20:00:15 0 0
bbc
Exactly. If teams are not required to be at their peak for every game the right to be named Champions is seriously undermined.
48
05/02/2021 11:32:12 9 4
bbc
If ring-fencing is approved, it should not include any additional teams.

League is big enough already and those in Championship should only be admitted if and when they win the league after ring-fencing is relaxed.
49
05/02/2021 11:32:33 26 12
bbc
This is has been delayed so Saracens - who have totally undermined the competition - can be let in. Rugby values - not.
61
05/02/2021 11:48:21 7 6
bbc
What about the other clubs/coaches that have previously undermined the competition ?
137
jay
05/02/2021 15:20:16 0 0
bbc
It has been delayed so there are more games played and the viewers think there is relegation and BT get viewers late on they will say no relegation when in realty everyone knows it wont happen. Win for broadcasters and win for teams.
156
05/02/2021 16:24:28 1 0
bbc
The pieman on a proper rugby site!
How very dare you!!
200
05/02/2021 20:18:47 0 0
bbc
We have been punished for our inadvertent breaches. Given we have 30% of the England team playing tomorrow, it seems perverse to ringfence with no ability to be able to regain our P/ship place. This was not envisioned when we were relegated. COVID has caused this. Is this because one of the “old school” might get relegated this season? If no relegation will there be no champ, no Champ cup places?
50
05/02/2021 11:34:11 7 13
bbc
Relegation frozen? NO!!! Got to reward Sorrycens for years of deliberate cheating and get them back to the Premiership, the 3rd Division of European Rugby.

Surely it's of immense importance to the English Rugby Union that their beloved Sorrycens be plucked from lowly English Championship and placed in the lowly Premiership. Ideally with no record the grubby little cheats ever having play a game.
59
05/02/2021 11:46:39 2 3
bbc
What has relegation got to do with Saracens? If your not good enough you should be relegated and the team that wins the Championship is promoted. Do you support a team that is looking at winning the Premiership or facing relegation ?
51
05/02/2021 11:38:59 4 1
bbc
Until Covid had gone and teams start playing in front of proper crowds I don't see the point in even talking about ring-fencing or changes to the league structures.
120
dad
05/02/2021 14:27:12 0 1
bbc
That would please National One
52
05/02/2021 11:40:08 7 2
bbc
Must hold on to promotion and relegation. Remember that Exeter, Bristol, and in the past Saracens have all been 2nd tier clubs. Preventing others from joining and refreshing the gene pool is just wrong.

I read Stephen Jones in the Times and whilst most of his articles are tosh, his view on how France operate the two divisions is wortt a read and emulating
54
05/02/2021 11:43:23 8 1
bbc
"Remember that Exeter, Bristol, and in the past Saracens have all been 2nd tier clubs"

Also, so have saints, Quins and Falcons.
60
05/02/2021 11:47:47 0 1
bbc
Majority of clubs simply dont want it though.
105
05/02/2021 13:31:08 1 1
bbc
The debate is not whether to do away with relegation permanently. It’s about doing away with it this season.
25
05/02/2021 11:12:42 14 19
bbc
Seems to be a lot of peoples reasoning here is just anti Saracens whinging. They've been relegated. They're serving their punishment, they're not playing in the top flight! Any cheating, happened at board level. It's not like 'bloodgate' where Quins actively cheated in an on field game. They are a Prem Club whether you lot like it or not and hopefully they will be back automatically if necessary.
53
05/02/2021 11:42:22 3 6
bbc
Saracens players did actively cheat for years. They knew they were breaking the remuneration rules. Pure and simple.
52
05/02/2021 11:40:08 7 2
bbc
Must hold on to promotion and relegation. Remember that Exeter, Bristol, and in the past Saracens have all been 2nd tier clubs. Preventing others from joining and refreshing the gene pool is just wrong.

I read Stephen Jones in the Times and whilst most of his articles are tosh, his view on how France operate the two divisions is wortt a read and emulating
54
05/02/2021 11:43:23 8 1
bbc
"Remember that Exeter, Bristol, and in the past Saracens have all been 2nd tier clubs"

Also, so have saints, Quins and Falcons.
69
05/02/2021 12:08:23 0 1
bbc
when was Saracens a second tier club
135
05/02/2021 15:12:22 0 0
bbc
Er, and London Irish
211
05/02/2021 20:29:57 0 0
bbc
And Warriors.
25
05/02/2021 11:12:42 14 19
bbc
Seems to be a lot of peoples reasoning here is just anti Saracens whinging. They've been relegated. They're serving their punishment, they're not playing in the top flight! Any cheating, happened at board level. It's not like 'bloodgate' where Quins actively cheated in an on field game. They are a Prem Club whether you lot like it or not and hopefully they will be back automatically if necessary.
55
05/02/2021 11:43:52 2 3
bbc
It's exactly like Quins. Saracens cheated in every on field game by fielding players they shouldn't have on their books.
29
05/02/2021 11:17:58 14 8
bbc
"They are a Prem Club whether you lot like it "

Well, patently, they aren't, i don't see them in the Prem Table?

Any disruption to their (inevitable) promotion is tough. Their cheating and subsequent relegation coincided with a pandemic.

Own it Saracens.
haha yes I knew I'd catch some little fishies. Reality is they'll be back on top soon enough. Enjoy it while you can, try not to get too upset when they're champions. Again. Removed
Just own the current situation, there's a good boy. Removed
40
05/02/2021 11:30:21 0 5
bbc
My money is on no relegation and bring Saracens back. Suits just working out how to sell it without looking like sell-outs.
57
05/02/2021 11:44:48 4 2
bbc
Surely if one team is admitted it should be Ealing as they recently beat Saracens.
76
05/02/2021 12:14:31 0 1
bbc
No thanks, there's enough London / ex London clubs already.
86
05/02/2021 12:24:28 4 2
bbc
Really? Chiefs fan here. Sarries only fielded Billy from their top flight and Ealing beat them by 1 point! They've been punished so that should be that. Move on boys.
39
05/02/2021 11:29:21 0 2
bbc
Your wit is scintillating....look in a dictionary ??
58
05/02/2021 11:46:06 0 2
bbc
Lol I thought it was quite good.
50
05/02/2021 11:34:11 7 13
bbc
Relegation frozen? NO!!! Got to reward Sorrycens for years of deliberate cheating and get them back to the Premiership, the 3rd Division of European Rugby.

Surely it's of immense importance to the English Rugby Union that their beloved Sorrycens be plucked from lowly English Championship and placed in the lowly Premiership. Ideally with no record the grubby little cheats ever having play a game.
59
05/02/2021 11:46:39 2 3
bbc
What has relegation got to do with Saracens? If your not good enough you should be relegated and the team that wins the Championship is promoted. Do you support a team that is looking at winning the Premiership or facing relegation ?
64
05/02/2021 11:56:42 1 2
bbc
And if you're good enough to finish top of the Premiership, you should be crowned the champions!
181
05/02/2021 18:59:04 0 0
bbc
Paapaa is Irish btw
52
05/02/2021 11:40:08 7 2
bbc
Must hold on to promotion and relegation. Remember that Exeter, Bristol, and in the past Saracens have all been 2nd tier clubs. Preventing others from joining and refreshing the gene pool is just wrong.

I read Stephen Jones in the Times and whilst most of his articles are tosh, his view on how France operate the two divisions is wortt a read and emulating
60
05/02/2021 11:47:47 0 1
bbc
Majority of clubs simply dont want it though.
49
05/02/2021 11:32:33 26 12
bbc
This is has been delayed so Saracens - who have totally undermined the competition - can be let in. Rugby values - not.
61
05/02/2021 11:48:21 7 6
bbc
What about the other clubs/coaches that have previously undermined the competition ?
102
05/02/2021 13:10:40 3 3
bbc
What about them?

This isn't about them and 'whataboutism' tends to be the last vestige of those with an indefensible position.

It's like getting caught stealing a car and justifying it by pointing at shoplifters.
62
05/02/2021 11:50:57 17 1
bbc
RFU cutting funding for the championship is a disgrace. This doesn't affect Saracens but it hurts the other less well off clubs badly.

This has been swept under the carpet.

I know there are many fans who sit in their ivory towers who don't care about this but it's worse than whether Gloucester has to spend one season in the championship or not.

Bristol and Exeter came from the championship.
173
05/02/2021 18:09:15 0 0
bbc
Bristol have jumped back and forth for many years.
30
Pip
05/02/2021 11:19:13 51 6
bbc
It won't be ruined, sorry 'Ring fenced' until Sarries are back up.

As a Chiefs fan, dead against ring fencing. There's a few other clubs in the SW would like to emulate our success, and why shouldn't they...........?
63
05/02/2021 11:51:28 14 1
bbc
As a Bath fan, my hopes and prayers are that relegation is scrapped this season, along with our Gloucester and Worcester cousins I imagine!

But I don't agree with it, as a grass roots rugby fan. And I think ring-fencing to appease the big money men would be nothing short of scandalous and another nail in the rugby integrity coffin.

As has been said, Exeter's story is exhibit A.
97
05/02/2021 12:59:21 1 2
bbc
It might fit some team purposes but while I'm completely against ring-fencing in principle.

The points this year are a bit of a lottery and the Championship isn't going to take place in any substantial sense, so it does seem reasonable to give it a miss this year since both the relegation and promotion are likely to be unearned.
59
05/02/2021 11:46:39 2 3
bbc
What has relegation got to do with Saracens? If your not good enough you should be relegated and the team that wins the Championship is promoted. Do you support a team that is looking at winning the Premiership or facing relegation ?
64
05/02/2021 11:56:42 1 2
bbc
And if you're good enough to finish top of the Premiership, you should be crowned the champions!
65
05/02/2021 11:59:31 4 5
bbc
I'm not sure what the expectations are from a ring fenced league? The 6 nations has shown that you can still end up with a "dead duck" team being carried. There are a number of well organised 2nd tier clubs that deserve the opportunity to fight for a seat at the top table. Lack of competition breeds stagnation. English top flight is a little washed out without Sarries.
71
05/02/2021 12:10:02 3 1
bbc
Exactly. Look at Ealing as well. They have ambitious plans.

The RFU should be looking to revitalise the championship not kill it. It's also great for development of players.

Both Genge and M.Vunipola were originally Bristol players when they were in the championship.

Exeter are the big success story of the championship of course.
73
05/02/2021 12:12:35 1 1
bbc
Agree, but only talking about one season though.
82
05/02/2021 12:19:34 0 1
bbc
your 'dead duck' team is still a good deal better than any of the tier two nations who have been mentioned regarding replacements in the 6 nations.
haha yes I knew I'd catch some little fishies. Reality is they'll be back on top soon enough. Enjoy it while you can, try not to get too upset when they're champions. Again. Removed
66
bbc
Just own the current situation, there's a good boy. Removed
88
05/02/2021 12:26:38 2 2
bbc
We'll own the championship, then be back for the prem don't you worry ma'am.
42
05/02/2021 11:30:38 5 5
bbc
But Sarries "board level" directly effected what happened on the field, as Sarries were able to field are much stronger team than they were allowed. As such they cheated in every on field game that had this team, so far wore than bloodgate, which was just one game
67
05/02/2021 12:05:49 1 2
bbc
Exactly, look at some of the players other teams had to leave go because of making those hard choices with the cap, then look at who Sarries were playing when the the 6n's were on, still a full bench of seasoned internationals.
68
05/02/2021 12:06:43 2 1
bbc
with the amount of matches called off, and the amount of team affected by non availability due to Covid, also the Championship not having a full season, seems inevitable to scrap relegation, but after last season, and the amount of matches played with weakened teams, theres going to be a lot of pointless matches towards the back end of the season,
54
05/02/2021 11:43:23 8 1
bbc
"Remember that Exeter, Bristol, and in the past Saracens have all been 2nd tier clubs"

Also, so have saints, Quins and Falcons.
69
05/02/2021 12:08:23 0 1
bbc
when was Saracens a second tier club
72
Pip
05/02/2021 12:10:36 4 1
bbc
Now..........?
Removed
80
05/02/2021 12:18:41 1 1
bbc
Early 90's before Nigel Wray became a backer. I think Nigel Wray became a backer of Saracens in 1995.

Only 4 clubs have been in the premiership every year - Gloucester, Wasps, Leicester and Bath.

Of course for three of them there is the serious threat of relegation this year.
90
05/02/2021 12:29:33 2 2
bbc
If you can't remember Saracens being a 2nd tier club, then you can't have a very good memory.
180
05/02/2021 18:57:19 1 0
bbc
To be fair, before Nigel Wray came along Saracens were a park team where they had to clear the dog mess before kick off
70
TY
05/02/2021 12:09:24 21 2
bbc
Glaws Supporter here.

You play the team that is put in front of you. We have had 7 chances to win games this season. Same number of chances as any other team in the league. Simply, we haven’t performed. We are the makers of our own destiny and we are at the bottom of the league as a result. I am not in favour of ring fencing.
110
05/02/2021 13:39:13 5 1
bbc
Absolutely, if we can play our way out of trouble all well and good. Otherwise we are due an overhaul, at the moment our game management is woeful. No excuses.
Dave P - Shedside
132
05/02/2021 15:00:42 1 0
bbc
Never yet met a Glaw that wasn't proper rugby, you lose you take a drink then you come back
140
05/02/2021 15:25:00 4 0
bbc
We deserve to be bottom on our form don't get me wrong, but it doesn't seem right that teams are ahead of us purely based on points they have received for not being able to field a team due to covid.
141
05/02/2021 15:25:01 4 0
bbc
If that was true I'd agree. Others haven't had 7 chances to play games though have they. They've just had points allocated as pot luck. If Glos go down by a point when the next best team has been given freebies that is not right.
187
05/02/2021 19:24:36 1 0
bbc
Also a Glaws supporter, can only agree 100 percent with your comments Sir.
65
05/02/2021 11:59:31 4 5
bbc
I'm not sure what the expectations are from a ring fenced league? The 6 nations has shown that you can still end up with a "dead duck" team being carried. There are a number of well organised 2nd tier clubs that deserve the opportunity to fight for a seat at the top table. Lack of competition breeds stagnation. English top flight is a little washed out without Sarries.
71
05/02/2021 12:10:02 3 1
bbc
Exactly. Look at Ealing as well. They have ambitious plans.

The RFU should be looking to revitalise the championship not kill it. It's also great for development of players.

Both Genge and M.Vunipola were originally Bristol players when they were in the championship.

Exeter are the big success story of the championship of course.
134
05/02/2021 15:08:22 1 0
bbc
Exeter, Bristol, Newcastle, London Irish, all had recent, 10 years ish, stints in the Championship, Ealing RFC are an old club but they have little support, just big money
69
05/02/2021 12:08:23 0 1
bbc
when was Saracens a second tier club
72
Pip
05/02/2021 12:10:36 4 1
bbc
Now..........?
65
05/02/2021 11:59:31 4 5
bbc
I'm not sure what the expectations are from a ring fenced league? The 6 nations has shown that you can still end up with a "dead duck" team being carried. There are a number of well organised 2nd tier clubs that deserve the opportunity to fight for a seat at the top table. Lack of competition breeds stagnation. English top flight is a little washed out without Sarries.
73
05/02/2021 12:12:35 1 1
bbc
Agree, but only talking about one season though.
74
05/02/2021 12:12:53 1 1
bbc
Why not ring fence the top 2 leagues together protecting the professional all the full time pro teams. Put all 24 sides into 4 pools of 6 and play home and away in regions, with secondary pool /finals stage add in a valuable KO cup comp too.
75
05/02/2021 12:13:56 9 4
bbc
No relegation for this season from Premiership.
No promotion from "Championship".....if it goes ahead.
Start again next season.
Saracens can then....probably...win the Championship and go back to where they should be and the bottom club in Premiership goes to the Championship....where they should be.
57
05/02/2021 11:44:48 4 2
bbc
Surely if one team is admitted it should be Ealing as they recently beat Saracens.
76
05/02/2021 12:14:31 0 1
bbc
No thanks, there's enough London / ex London clubs already.
83
05/02/2021 12:21:19 1 1
bbc
ah so it's not down to merit? purely Geography?
69
05/02/2021 12:08:23 0 1
bbc
when was Saracens a second tier club
77
bbc
Removed
78
05/02/2021 12:17:24 6 1
bbc
Bring up 2 from the Championship... then next season have a relegation battle that would include the bottom 2
79
05/02/2021 12:18:38 4 1
bbc
are we not forgetting, all sport is about competing at the highest level you're capable of, ring fencing the premiership just means some great clubs, not just in the championship but also in tier 3 and 4 will not be able to have that dream any more, it wasn't that long ago one of those great clubs was Exeter. It would be a total travesty to sport not just rugby if this is allowed to happen.
69
05/02/2021 12:08:23 0 1
bbc
when was Saracens a second tier club
80
05/02/2021 12:18:41 1 1
bbc
Early 90's before Nigel Wray became a backer. I think Nigel Wray became a backer of Saracens in 1995.

Only 4 clubs have been in the premiership every year - Gloucester, Wasps, Leicester and Bath.

Of course for three of them there is the serious threat of relegation this year.
81
05/02/2021 12:19:01 3 1
bbc
The Championship, although scheduled, may well not happen this season. I suspect that the final outcome will be no relegation, but the return of Saracens and in order to avoid any legal argument, Ealing also. There are other clubs with aspirations to the Premiership, but given the slashing of the RFU funding no other clubs will be ready or able to compete in the Prem for years, if ever.
65
05/02/2021 11:59:31 4 5
bbc
I'm not sure what the expectations are from a ring fenced league? The 6 nations has shown that you can still end up with a "dead duck" team being carried. There are a number of well organised 2nd tier clubs that deserve the opportunity to fight for a seat at the top table. Lack of competition breeds stagnation. English top flight is a little washed out without Sarries.
82
05/02/2021 12:19:34 0 1
bbc
your 'dead duck' team is still a good deal better than any of the tier two nations who have been mentioned regarding replacements in the 6 nations.
76
05/02/2021 12:14:31 0 1
bbc
No thanks, there's enough London / ex London clubs already.
83
05/02/2021 12:21:19 1 1
bbc
ah so it's not down to merit? purely Geography?
84
05/02/2021 12:22:26 0 2
bbc
what they should be voting for is to stop league games when England playing, and if they want more teams then it would have to be 14 as 13 would mean a team would miss a weekend. how would they decide who comes up if they don't play the league?
33
05/02/2021 11:21:56 3 17
bbc
Without Saracens in the Premiership, England will not win another match. Exeter have shown how they can't maintain any form. Bristol and Wasps are great teams but do not have any consistency. I can see why the BBC and other anti English rugby supporters would want Saracens kept in the Championship.
85
05/02/2021 12:23:01 1 2
bbc
Or! there are enough teams who, in time, could become as big as Saracens and therefore have the best English players play for them. Without the cheating obviously. if one team makes the entire league then there are massive problems.
57
05/02/2021 11:44:48 4 2
bbc
Surely if one team is admitted it should be Ealing as they recently beat Saracens.
86
05/02/2021 12:24:28 4 2
bbc
Really? Chiefs fan here. Sarries only fielded Billy from their top flight and Ealing beat them by 1 point! They've been punished so that should be that. Move on boys.
87
05/02/2021 12:25:07 1 1
bbc
Realistically the vote to scrap relegation will easily be won. The only way I could see it being stopped is if all 12 clubs have to agree.
91
05/02/2021 12:29:51 4 1
bbc
I expect the clubs have already agreed, but the RFU council have the final say and we all know how ridiculous the RFU suits can be at times. For example, "let's grow the game by slashing funding to the Championship"
Just own the current situation, there's a good boy. Removed
88
05/02/2021 12:26:38 2 2
bbc
We'll own the championship, then be back for the prem don't you worry ma'am.
93
05/02/2021 12:38:34 1 4
bbc
For good reason, the only thing Saracens will 'own' now and for years to come, is the legacy of success bought by cheating.
89
05/02/2021 12:27:29 1 1
bbc
Let's be honest there will be no meaningful Championship this year. Therefore no justification for anyone getting promoted. However longer term we need to look across the channel to see how they run 2 fully professional leagues and are looking to add a 3rd the FFR also support a much larger community rugby set-up below that, all levels having Promotion & Relegation.
69
05/02/2021 12:08:23 0 1
bbc
when was Saracens a second tier club
90
05/02/2021 12:29:33 2 2
bbc
If you can't remember Saracens being a 2nd tier club, then you can't have a very good memory.
87
05/02/2021 12:25:07 1 1
bbc
Realistically the vote to scrap relegation will easily be won. The only way I could see it being stopped is if all 12 clubs have to agree.
91
05/02/2021 12:29:51 4 1
bbc
I expect the clubs have already agreed, but the RFU council have the final say and we all know how ridiculous the RFU suits can be at times. For example, "let's grow the game by slashing funding to the Championship"
92
05/02/2021 12:32:00 0 1
bbc
If no relegation happens, it will simplify watching, no need to bother until end of season to see who wins it :(
88
05/02/2021 12:26:38 2 2
bbc
We'll own the championship, then be back for the prem don't you worry ma'am.
93
05/02/2021 12:38:34 1 4
bbc
For good reason, the only thing Saracens will 'own' now and for years to come, is the legacy of success bought by cheating.
¯\_(?)_/¯ Lol so bitter Removed
94
05/02/2021 12:49:34 1 1
bbc
If the championship happens this year, there should be promotion and relegation. this should be sorted out at the start of the season, not half way through.
95
05/02/2021 12:52:33 2 2
bbc
Monumentally terrible idea to ring fence the premiership. Which ever goon thought of it, should be relegated themselves. Then again, they come out with this stupid story every year.
96
05/02/2021 12:57:19 1 1
bbc
Not really what why're saying though is it.

They're saying that nobody should be relegated this season, which given how points have been allocated through cancellations combined with the Championship looking like it will be decided by a 3 game round-robin (or whatever), doesn't sounds like such a stupid idea now does it.

Sarries won't be happy, which I'm sure is why they haven't decided yet.
95
05/02/2021 12:52:33 2 2
bbc
Monumentally terrible idea to ring fence the premiership. Which ever goon thought of it, should be relegated themselves. Then again, they come out with this stupid story every year.
96
05/02/2021 12:57:19 1 1
bbc
Not really what why're saying though is it.

They're saying that nobody should be relegated this season, which given how points have been allocated through cancellations combined with the Championship looking like it will be decided by a 3 game round-robin (or whatever), doesn't sounds like such a stupid idea now does it.

Sarries won't be happy, which I'm sure is why they haven't decided yet.
63
05/02/2021 11:51:28 14 1
bbc
As a Bath fan, my hopes and prayers are that relegation is scrapped this season, along with our Gloucester and Worcester cousins I imagine!

But I don't agree with it, as a grass roots rugby fan. And I think ring-fencing to appease the big money men would be nothing short of scandalous and another nail in the rugby integrity coffin.

As has been said, Exeter's story is exhibit A.
97
05/02/2021 12:59:21 1 2
bbc
It might fit some team purposes but while I'm completely against ring-fencing in principle.

The points this year are a bit of a lottery and the Championship isn't going to take place in any substantial sense, so it does seem reasonable to give it a miss this year since both the relegation and promotion are likely to be unearned.
93
05/02/2021 12:38:34 1 4
bbc
For good reason, the only thing Saracens will 'own' now and for years to come, is the legacy of success bought by cheating.
¯\_(?)_/¯ Lol so bitter Removed
99
05/02/2021 13:05:42 1 2
bbc
The Championship hasn't, and maybe won't start so how can you relegate anyone from the Premiership as there is no Championship winner to replace them ?
Or maybe the RFU are just waiting to promote Saracens anyway !!!
31
05/02/2021 11:21:01 49 10
bbc
a lot of comments ref Sarries - lets remember they chose relegation above disclosing their books .
100
05/02/2021 13:06:47 6 2
bbc
I don't think anyone other than the club and their fans want to see them get special treatment.

The point is more that they remain influential and rightly or wrongly, will almost certainly have a say in what happens.
171
05/02/2021 17:57:44 3 0
bbc
They will have a say because they are shareholders.

The RFU want them up because they produce international quality players. No other team does this to the same extent.