Climate change: Boris Johnson 'risks humiliation' over coal mine
04/02/2021 | news | science | 1,032
A leading scientist warns Boris Johnson digging for coal undermines the UK's climate change efforts.
1
04/02/2021 10:47:54 20 16
bbc
Ridicule isn’t a deterrent for Johnson, see the rest of his career
469
04/02/2021 12:25:28 0 0
bbc
How stupid of you lot to use it then
2
04/02/2021 10:48:44 10 14
bbc
Presumably Johnson thinks "f the environment", like he did with business ?
3
04/02/2021 10:48:46 90 31
bbc
Hardly humiliation. Just one opinion versus another. Remember China and India are building coal fired power stations with gay abandon and are the real danger to climate change.
Two wrongs always make a right in BrexitClown Land
48
04/02/2021 10:55:07 9 4
bbc
It’s ok we can rely on China to supply us with steel or we can use plastic instead HA!
69
04/02/2021 10:57:22 13 10
bbc
If you are going to take this approach then i'd point out that 2 wrongs don't make a right. I would also point out that 25% of Chinas energy is from renewables and they are one of the world leaders in solar power.

Whataboutism is pointless when you don't acknowledge all relevant factors.
213
04/02/2021 11:14:32 3 3
bbc
So let’s just join them decades after deep coal mining ceased in the UK?
4
04/02/2021 10:48:59 8 13
bbc
Its only one mine
Lets do the numbers and see what the yield is in money, co2 etc
Plenty of jobs
05/02/2021 21:44:11 0 0
bbc
About 8Mt CO per year, more than the entire UK steel industry.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/30/coal-mine-decision-gives-negative-impression-of-uks-climate-priorities

There could be safer, cleaner jobs in decarbonising industry. And here's the latest:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-55953887
5
04/02/2021 10:49:48 5 7
bbc
If it's a case of climate VS coal and steel, the gov could give an incentive for new and sustainable industries to open shop in coal + steel dependant areas.
Change must come, and people may have to change jobs in some cases.
6
MVS
04/02/2021 10:49:58 10 16
bbc
I do not understand the very negative slant in the headline. "Humiliation" in the opinion of the biased scientist, but there are some very eco-friendly reasons for mining coking coal in this country.
2 BBC agendas on display here.
22
04/02/2021 10:52:45 4 3
bbc
Give the Bozo party anti BBC stuff a rest please
33
04/02/2021 10:54:10 4 0
bbc
There are no eco-friendly reasons for mining coking coal. None. It may be less damaging to mine it in the UK than import it but to say there are eco-friendly reasons for mining coal is utter nonsense.
38
04/02/2021 10:54:35 5 0
bbc
No, there aren't any 'eco-friendly' reasons for mining coking coal here. Transport of this material is a very small part of its overall impact, which is significantly negative wherever you mine it if you then use it as it is traditionally used to manufacture steel with.
67
04/02/2021 10:53:33 3 0
bbc
poppycock
84
04/02/2021 10:59:19 4 0
bbc
Johnson is hosting an international climate summit and his government is ducking out of making a stance. Who is going to believe our commitment when we run away from difficult decisions on the subject. You seem to conclude that anyone disagreeing with you has an agenda.
05/02/2021 22:56:39 0 0
bbc
The word 'humiliation' of course comes from the letter from NASA veteran James Hansen, which is worth reading.

This should explain a bit more too.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/feb/05/experts-pile-pressure-on-boris-johnson-over-shocking-new-coalmine

There no 'eco-friendly' reasons for new coal and an understanding of the climate crisis will show there's no possible excuses for it.
7
04/02/2021 10:50:03 7 13
bbc
There's a world overcapacity of steelmaking production of 700MT per annum.
There's also ongoing development into hydrogen reduction of steel. Meaning you don't need coking coal to make it - see:

https://www.hybritdevelopment.com/

This plant is a white elephant as regards steelmaking, as the market is moving away from coke. Possibly has merit for producing coal as a chemical feedstock though.
05/02/2021 23:03:50 0 0
bbc
It's also a white elephant in that they were talking about mining for 50 years, while the Committee on Climate Change says all coal must stop in 15. It shouldn't be used for feedstock either as the resulting products will probably be incinerated.

Trying to show climate leadership in COP26 at the same time as adding a *new* source of *coal* emissions makes the UK look very thick or dishonest.
8
04/02/2021 10:50:16 25 22
bbc
Humiliated over a coal mine?

Not for being sacked several times from a job as a journalist for lying?
Not for being caught cheating on his wife while she received cancer treatments?
Not for skipping the country so he didn’t have to cast a vote on the airport expansion?
Not for his family & top advisors flout lockdown rules?
Not for his “fantastic” NI deal?
Not for Harding's £14bn T&T app?
46
04/02/2021 10:52:54 4 4
bbc
well said.
200
04/02/2021 11:13:04 0 0
bbc
80 seat majority.
05/02/2021 23:07:18 0 0
bbc
Those are mostly points about Johnson personally. What Dr Hansen was describing would also be humiliation for the whole country.

Coal is well known as worse even than oil or fossil gas, and unless stopped this will be a new coal mine producing more emissions than all other coal use combined.
9
04/02/2021 10:50:26 84 30
bbc
Coal from a UK mine will have a smaller carbon footprint than imported coal. It will create British jobs and pay taxation towards paying for Covid. If the UK needs to use the coal it should be British.
45
04/02/2021 10:52:19 28 55
bbc
Smaller carbon footprint???? words fail me
52
04/02/2021 10:55:31 2 1
bbc
However, coal use in Britain is tiny compared to just a few years ago and is tending to zero.
760
04/02/2021 17:31:37 0 1
bbc
Your last sentence doesn’t make sense. Do you you know why?
10
04/02/2021 10:50:43 9 11
bbc
Coalmine, HS2 and trade with pacific group. What green credentials has this govt got????
189
04/02/2021 11:11:50 1 2
bbc
Coal mine needed for Steel (for your silly windmills and renewable energy, HS2 removes the need for cars (massive polluters that poision the very air you breath with PM2.5 and lower PMs (Particulate matter)), the only thing is Pacific.
11
04/02/2021 10:51:03 9 9
bbc
His voting record over last few decades has been awful on climate change if BBC bothered to report these facts...
36
04/02/2021 10:54:33 8 6
bbc
Do stop whining about the BBC please.
12
04/02/2021 10:51:22 24 6
bbc
I see 85% of it is destined for export to Europe. At least it won't go off while waiting for the right paperwork.
82
04/02/2021 10:58:57 22 10
bbc
Better to export this than use some of the dirty high sulphur coal burnt in Germany at the moment.
110
04/02/2021 10:58:57 5 2
bbc
practically ALL of the UK's quota for export of steel to Europe will be exhausted by the end of April in the exciting world of post Brexit Britain. This needs some thought
13
04/02/2021 10:51:23 111 23
bbc
We're not the only country building power stations.

If we're to produce our own steel etc then this is needed.
Everyone stating we shouldn't be so reliant on China etc
31
04/02/2021 10:53:40 30 30
bbc
Where do you plan on getting the iron ore for the steel industry?
137
04/02/2021 11:05:19 12 12
bbc
Its not for power its for the creation of steel in the UK & EU.

Obviously you fell for the lies from Roger Horrorbin & Green Peace. And they, 7 you, fail to say where all the steel is going to come from to support the thousands of Wind Turbines that the eco-alarmists want!
177
04/02/2021 11:10:14 11 8
bbc
this coal ISN'T for power stations, for goodness sake. it's for MAKING STEEL - that is entirely different function and today and for foreseeable future has NO decarbonised alternative
759
04/02/2021 17:29:38 0 0
bbc
What type of steel, what grade, what type of ore, what type of coal (both coal and ore are of different grades) plus the other ores/metal/fluxes required.
What about the oxygen requirements?, Bessemer converter availability?
So easy to set up isn’t it.
Tariffs anyone?
14
04/02/2021 10:51:30 98 35
bbc
Ridiculous headline - no "hunliation". I suggest Dr. Hansen develops a new process to make iron & steel (without coking coal) or shuts up.
106
04/02/2021 11:02:19 26 21
bbc
We are just trying to get to the same coal production levels as Germany has.
163
04/02/2021 11:08:32 3 0
bbc
We can but hope.??
184
04/02/2021 11:11:22 8 0
bbc
here, here - don't let the science get in the way of evangelical rantings mostly from people who pontificate and have never made anything in their life....
186
04/02/2021 11:11:34 6 7
bbc
It helps if you know what you're talking about. This is what a forward looking government would be encouraging instead of ancient technology: https://www.hybritdevelopment.com/
310
04/02/2021 11:35:53 1 4
bbc
There are far too many apologists for the status quo. There are several routes to CO2-free steel, including production cycles being seriousely investigated by Vatenfall, who run so many of our windfarms. The following blog from Australia is very interesting.
https://theconversation.com/albanese-says-we-cant-replace-steelmaking-coal-but-we-already-have-green-alternatives-126599
870
RPH
05/02/2021 07:12:12 0 0
bbc
Correct: "Hunliation" is ridiculous. Guess that's why Harrabin writes for the world's premier news organisation, Dr. Hansen was Nasa's leading global warming researcher and you just make inane comments in HYS.
15
04/02/2021 10:51:41 6 10
bbc
Why are we opening a coal mine? Build wind turbines, re-instate the tidal power plan in Swansea but let's not go backwards. I want a world for future generations and the UK should set the example in my opinion
37
04/02/2021 10:54:35 2 1
bbc
I’m all for wind turbines and tidal power, but how do you intend to make these without fossil fuels?
41
MVS
04/02/2021 10:54:49 1 2
bbc
All of which need steel...which needs coking coal to make it!
43
04/02/2021 10:54:58 0 2
bbc
We are setting a very good example in most areas.

You just need to take of your doom & gloom spectacles.
51
04/02/2021 10:55:28 1 1
bbc
"Why are we opening a coal mine?"

Read the article. To obtain coal for use in steel-making. Would you prefer us to use more fuel importing coal from elsewhere, or steel from China?

The UK should never cripple itself "setting the example" because no-one will follow that example, just laugh at us as we destroy what's left of our industry to satisfy vociferous greenies.
90
04/02/2021 11:00:37 0 1
bbc
What are wind turbine structures made from? The turbine blades are epoxy resin which is oil derived, land based wind turbines use approx 600 cubic metres of concrete for each base. Its a coke mine needed for steel making to build lots of our green projects so a necessary evil.
160
04/02/2021 11:08:16 0 1
bbc
There is no magic tree that produces steel etc. To build wind turbines etc. If we import steel then that carbon footprint will be huge compaired with home produced steel.
16
04/02/2021 10:51:45 10 14
bbc
Johnson is a lying (insert the very worst epithet - I suggest s... b..).

He'll put up statues to everyone to con the people into approving his murderous covid errors and his disastrous brexit stupidity.

BORIS ... do the right thing for once. RESIGN NOW.
17
04/02/2021 10:51:51 9 14
bbc
Warned Boris Johnson that he risks “humiliation“ Bit late for that
30
04/02/2021 10:53:37 0 2
bbc
People in glass houses...
18
04/02/2021 10:52:02 4 8
bbc
His voting record on climate change is the worst of any MP...
19
04/02/2021 10:52:02 230 66
bbc
To build railways, electrify railways, buses, other public transport, wind turbines, solar panels, hydroelectric power.... etc. All these things that help us reach zero carbon need steel. Steel needs coking coal, is it better to import it or dig it out ourselves?

Its an unfortunate truth of green infrastructure, you can't build it without this stuff.
154
04/02/2021 11:07:28 91 67
bbc
Steel doesn't need coking coal.

http://www.fchea.org/in-transition/2019/11/25/hydrogen-in-the-iron-and-steel-industry

Look at the direction of travel here. The big players are moving away from the use of this.
166
04/02/2021 11:08:45 5 18
bbc
Cant we use something less harmful like fiberglass, if its good enough for Greta to sail in then it must be green & good ??
Or biogradable plastic made from hemp ??
229
04/02/2021 11:16:28 17 5
bbc
Quite right, sadly people find it hard to think logically, easier to pick on a symbol than actually change anything in our lives eg driving less, turning the heating down etc which would make a substantial difference to the demand for energy which is the real issue in rich countries like the uk
391
04/02/2021 11:59:45 7 1
bbc
All I have seen is one point of view projected by the BBC on this subject, currently there is no fully proven alternative (hydrogen might work) to using carbon as a reducing agent in blast furnaces. Surely it's both better for our balance of payments, security of supply and provides welcome jobs. The only true way to reduce our ecological impact is to reduce our population over the coming years.
420
04/02/2021 12:08:55 2 7
bbc
Steel can be made without the use of coal.
554
04/02/2021 12:55:22 2 1
bbc
Totally agree. You cannot make an omellete without breaking eggs. Better to haver the mining done here under strict environmental and H&S laws rather than farmed out to the cheapest nastiest operator.
623
04/02/2021 14:02:52 0 2
bbc
Good point however this plant is going to export something like 85% of it's produce. So is it better to produce fantastically more than we actually need and export almost all of it, or import the small amount that we do need?

The answer is obvious.
Dr. Tim Ball is single handedly proving the C02 corruption of climate science, as Michael Mann only knows too well. Google it and you will see that the IPPC veteran (Mann) could not provide any scientific evidence whatsoever that substantiated the IPCC agenda on climate change!!!!! And you all believe what you are being told, get off the zero carbon bandwagon and check your facts people.
20
04/02/2021 10:52:22 5 8
bbc
Its another case of do what I say and not what I do.
Too many mates will lose money if cancelled.
94
04/02/2021 11:00:47 1 1
bbc
Really you have no idea what you are talking about.
159
04/02/2021 11:08:15 0 1
bbc
Or we cause greater damage by importing coal and steel. You want your environment cake and eat it, well this coal mine is vital. Steel is needed for wind turbines and pretty much the entire renewable energy stick.
21
Hex
04/02/2021 10:52:38 35 4
bbc
Need coking coal to make steel so don't have a lot of choice. We either get it here and support UK jobs or we import it.
75
04/02/2021 10:58:06 9 12
bbc
You can, unfortunately rather than looking to the future developing cleaner electrical methods for steel production we are relying on antiquated methods.
248
04/02/2021 11:18:12 0 6
bbc
We do have a choice and there is an alternative: https://www.hybritdevelopment.com/
6
MVS
04/02/2021 10:49:58 10 16
bbc
I do not understand the very negative slant in the headline. "Humiliation" in the opinion of the biased scientist, but there are some very eco-friendly reasons for mining coking coal in this country.
2 BBC agendas on display here.
22
04/02/2021 10:52:45 4 3
bbc
Give the Bozo party anti BBC stuff a rest please
23
04/02/2021 10:52:46 45 8
bbc
The choice is between mining coal in another country and transporting it to the UK or mine the coal in the UK. Which of these two options are better for the environment. The answer is mining in the UK and there are also economic benefits.
97
04/02/2021 11:01:12 8 29
bbc
There's nothing much in it. Transport is a *very* small part of the overall emissions from using coking coal.
221
04/02/2021 11:15:29 3 8
bbc
No, those aren't the only options. A forward thinking government would have helped accelerate the development of this alternative: https://www.hybritdevelopment.com/
24
04/02/2021 10:50:20 3 14
bbc
you can immidiately ignore anything being said by climate experts
25
04/02/2021 10:51:17 4 5
bbc
I wonder what Arthur Scargill would have to say! Vindicated.
47
04/02/2021 10:55:02 0 3
bbc
No probably want the num to pay for a new apartment.
54
04/02/2021 10:55:40 1 2
bbc
Hardly. Scargill would still have us all using burning coal to light our houses. He was fairly out of date in the 80s, now he would be positively fossilised.
26
04/02/2021 10:52:59 130 59
bbc
Give it a rest BBC. It is a coking coal mine. There is no renewable alternative. If we don't mine it here we have to import it - with even greater emissions.
55
04/02/2021 10:55:54 70 52
bbc
Don't think you can moan about the BBC on this one, they are just reporting it.
56
04/02/2021 10:56:00 13 19
bbc
Be careful, they don't like facts.
64
04/02/2021 10:56:59 5 7
bbc
Not to mention that in the Government's 10-point plan, we're investing £1bn in Carbon Capture, with a focus on power and industrial emissions. If the technology works then emissions from steel production could be sequestered under the north sea!
88
04/02/2021 11:00:30 14 7
bbc
There's a couple of renewable alternatives. One is hydrogen reduction of steel - see:

https://www.hybritdevelopment.com/

The other is electric arc furnace production using scrap steel. 45% of world steel is already made this way, and the proportion rises year on year. We've 700MT of excess capacity worldwide for steelmaking too.
164
04/02/2021 11:08:39 14 18
bbc
Why are you criticising the BBC for a factual report? It really is almost insane bias on your part.
280
04/02/2021 11:25:01 4 8
bbc
We're all suddenly steel-making experts. But there are alternatives. Hydrogen based alternatives are gathering steam (pun intended) and an ambitious government would seek to link spare wind generation capacity with a hydrogen supply chain. Steel-making will get cheaper over time using hydrogen and more expensive using coal. The UK will simply continue to fall behind unless we look to the future.
712
04/02/2021 16:06:01 4 4
bbc
Thanks.

I'll never tire of laughing at idiots who whine and sob at the BBC for reporting what someone else says, and the idiots then claim it's the BBC saying it.

You're the latest in a long line.
27
04/02/2021 10:53:12 134 39
bbc
So we lose the exports and have to import coking coal whilst feeling smug about our green credentials whilst queuing at the food banks
49
04/02/2021 10:55:07 62 22
bbc
Well said
59
04/02/2021 10:56:09 12 10
bbc
Foodbanks are directly caused by cutting benefits,poverty in work wages and other Tory govt policies...
448
Ian
04/02/2021 12:17:53 10 0
bbc
We export our waste and our manufacturing so we can be 'green'
476
04/02/2021 12:27:36 1 6
bbc
One thing does not equate to the other.

Tory policies on welfare have directly led to the necessity for food banks - export and imports are a separate problem exacerbated by Brexit.

We can be 'green' but we need to embrace it properly and not in half-measures trying to please everyone.

Embracing green energy will create jobs which should actually reduce the queues at foodbanks.
537
04/02/2021 12:47:31 1 3
bbc
Where would these exports go? The far east and USA produce steel much cheaper than us. Australia supply the far east steel making industry and the USA supply their own.
The EU is now a closed market to us due to the mountains
of red tape and the proposed EU - Australia trade deal
638
04/02/2021 14:14:40 1 8
bbc
The CCC says the Cumbrian mine will increase global emissions and compromise the UK’s legally binding carbon budgets.

The CCC said: “The decision to award planning permission [for the mine] to 2049 will commit the UK to emissions from coking coal.“ The body said coking coal will have to stop by 2035 if the country is to meet its climate change targets.
-------
No doubt Tories benefit financially!
28
04/02/2021 10:53:21 4 5
bbc
Technology has moved on you know. There is such a thing called clean coal. We still have big reserves of coal. It is ridiculous not to make more use of them.
80
04/02/2021 10:55:30 2 1
bbc
Bet you had a different view of coalmining and miners in the 80s mate. And none of your concerns involved the environment.
29
04/02/2021 10:53:30 64 20
bbc
We need this one mine to supply coal for steel manufacturing. Better this than importing the high polluting brown coal that is mined elsewhere.

Even those people who profess the greenest of credentials need steel for their electric cars and wind turbines.
72
04/02/2021 10:57:45 21 47
bbc
You don't need coking coal to make steel.

https://www.hybritdevelopment.com/
222
04/02/2021 11:15:41 3 0
bbc
You can't make steel with brown coal, apologies for being pedantic but brown coal is only suitable for power production and has pretty much been phased out around the world except in Victoria, Australia.
17
04/02/2021 10:51:51 9 14
bbc
Warned Boris Johnson that he risks “humiliation“ Bit late for that
30
04/02/2021 10:53:37 0 2
bbc
People in glass houses...
101
04/02/2021 11:01:49 0 0
bbc
People in glass houses are usually potting up plants
13
04/02/2021 10:51:23 111 23
bbc
We're not the only country building power stations.

If we're to produce our own steel etc then this is needed.
Everyone stating we shouldn't be so reliant on China etc
31
04/02/2021 10:53:40 30 30
bbc
Where do you plan on getting the iron ore for the steel industry?
211
04/02/2021 11:14:22 6 0
bbc
how about Australia, the worlds largest Iron ore exporter?
329
04/02/2021 11:40:39 6 1
bbc
All the scrapped German diesel cars!
344
04/02/2021 11:46:17 2 4
bbc
Don't tell me, the EU is going to stop us buying it?
719
04/02/2021 16:18:53 0 0
bbc
Same as we do now, from Brazil, the US & China.
723
04/02/2021 16:21:46 0 0
bbc
The North of England reopen the mines, plenty
32
04/02/2021 10:54:06 40 12
bbc
So its greener to ship coal from Australia to supply our steel works.

What these people are trying to do is destroy our remaining steel industry.
278
04/02/2021 11:20:32 8 10
bbc
Am I the only one reading this article correctly? 85% is being exported! Let the countries receiving it take responsibility for where they source it. We have to maintain our commitment to reducing fossil fuel extraction if we are to meet our legally agreed targets.
6
MVS
04/02/2021 10:49:58 10 16
bbc
I do not understand the very negative slant in the headline. "Humiliation" in the opinion of the biased scientist, but there are some very eco-friendly reasons for mining coking coal in this country.
2 BBC agendas on display here.
33
04/02/2021 10:54:10 4 0
bbc
There are no eco-friendly reasons for mining coking coal. None. It may be less damaging to mine it in the UK than import it but to say there are eco-friendly reasons for mining coal is utter nonsense.
34
04/02/2021 10:54:13 159 44
bbc
I am passionate about stopping climate change and protecting our planet and natural habitats. I do however think there may be a case for this mine. Energy generation doesn't need carbon, but steel production still does, there is no current alternative. Better we get the coal locally than abroad, better we create the steel here. Better for the global environment overall. Less emotion, more logic.
63
04/02/2021 10:56:51 64 47
bbc
Here's the alternative. It'll be operating at scale before this mine is producing coal.

https://www.hybritdevelopment.com/
121
04/02/2021 11:03:46 4 7
bbc
you cant stop it it been changing since the earth was formed
198
04/02/2021 11:12:50 14 7
bbc
spot on Dave. Agree with everything you say.

Roger - please answer this and stop grand standing about "embarassment" - address the FACTS

saying we need to get rid of coking coal by 2035 is like saying we need to make sure sun never sets - it simple isn't going to happen - no technology available and even when/if it does, it will be decades to implement.
334
04/02/2021 11:43:51 4 2
bbc
Did you miss the part of the article which mentioned "85% of [the coal mined] is destined for export to Europe..."?
576
04/02/2021 13:10:51 4 0
bbc
Well done Dave. This is a state of the art plant too and yes until we can find a current alternative not just for steel but this super high quality niche steel that this super hot coal (UK coal is the best), then the PM has made right decision. I wish the dear BBC would stop using this phrase "leading expert". This is leading and utterly subjective and NOT your role BBC.
637
04/02/2021 14:14:25 0 3
bbc
The CCC says the Cumbrian mine will increase global emissions and compromise the UK’s legally binding carbon budgets.

The CCC said: “The decision to award planning permission [for the mine] to 2049 will commit the UK to emissions from coking coal.“ The body said coking coal will have to stop by 2035 if the country is to meet its climate change targets.
-------
No doubt Tories benefit financially!
710
Rob
04/02/2021 16:01:16 0 2
bbc
I thought so too Dave P until I saw that ...

85% of this coal is not intended for UK steel production

The mine can only legally operate until 2035

30% of top-grade steel is made from recycling. We have a glut of scrap steel and recycling uses 30% of the energy of new steel and is carbon-neutral if renewable electricity is used

Demand for coking coal is falling

More logic - better outcome.
855
05/02/2021 01:32:49 0 0
bbc
Nobody who is "passionate about stopping climate change would ever say anything as contradictory as what you said. Its so easy to say by people who dont live next to a man made mountain of contaminated land from the remnants of the steel industry, like I do and this new mine is not far away either. I wonder if you would be so pro mining if you lived nearby and saw the huge environmental impact.
866
05/02/2021 06:34:47 0 1
bbc
Anyone with a background in geology knows that climates change over time - get over it. As for the mine people need jobs, this area now forgotten mined high grade iron ore as well as coal hence the once steel works in Workington, like Consett now gone as we import steel from overseas. A lot of money in climate change academia compared to geology these days as we just import instead! Protest fear!
986
Pip
05/02/2021 13:03:31 0 0
bbc
The tip of a dangerous ice berg, logically speaking........?
35
04/02/2021 10:54:27 12 8
bbc
All Johnson wants is the ultimate workplace photo opportunity. Lab coats, day-glo overalls and builders' hard hats are all very well and good but a coal miner's outfit and a miner's lamp? Gadzooks! Eat your heart out Maggie Thatcher!
11
04/02/2021 10:51:03 9 9
bbc
His voting record over last few decades has been awful on climate change if BBC bothered to report these facts...
36
04/02/2021 10:54:33 8 6
bbc
Do stop whining about the BBC please.
143
04/02/2021 11:06:36 0 2
bbc
Sorry but bbc should report facts not opinion.
555
04/02/2021 12:55:51 0 0
bbc
They use a hell of a lot of CO2 and by opening up HYS, cause you to do so too.
15
04/02/2021 10:51:41 6 10
bbc
Why are we opening a coal mine? Build wind turbines, re-instate the tidal power plan in Swansea but let's not go backwards. I want a world for future generations and the UK should set the example in my opinion
37
04/02/2021 10:54:35 2 1
bbc
I’m all for wind turbines and tidal power, but how do you intend to make these without fossil fuels?
6
MVS
04/02/2021 10:49:58 10 16
bbc
I do not understand the very negative slant in the headline. "Humiliation" in the opinion of the biased scientist, but there are some very eco-friendly reasons for mining coking coal in this country.
2 BBC agendas on display here.
38
04/02/2021 10:54:35 5 0
bbc
No, there aren't any 'eco-friendly' reasons for mining coking coal here. Transport of this material is a very small part of its overall impact, which is significantly negative wherever you mine it if you then use it as it is traditionally used to manufacture steel with.
39
04/02/2021 10:54:37 15 8
bbc
Currently we are becoming a bit too dependent on gas, (including from Russia), wind, (that can drop), and solar, (eh, what? Sun in the UK!!!). We don't have enough nuclear power plants so we do need adequate conventional supplies.

The beauty of coal is that it's easy and safe to store. As long as it's used as emergency back up, never as a primary power, it's fully justified.
60
04/02/2021 10:56:14 5 1
bbc
Most gas that is used in this country comes from Norway.
298
04/02/2021 11:29:01 2 0
bbc
None of the coal is destined for burning in power plants (in the UK at least). It is intended for producing coking coal for steel production - the coal is necessary as part of the chemical process of removing oxygen from the iron in the furnace. Heatin gof the furnace can be replaced by electrical heating, but it still requires the coal for the purpose of "reduction."
438
04/02/2021 12:14:23 2 0
bbc
This is coking coal for steel. It isn't just about the 'heat' you need to remove the oxygen from the Iron Oxide to produce Iron, the Carbon in coke does that.
40
04/02/2021 10:54:49 51 10
bbc
Currently there is no clean technology for producing steel. Hydrogen in early concept trials but probably 20-30 years from being adopted due to massive investment needed. Steel is not going away and shipping coke from the UK to Europe is better than from farther away.
138
04/02/2021 11:05:21 31 4
bbc
Steel is also used in wind turbines, so if you want more wind, more CO2 form coal is needed.
148
04/02/2021 11:04:23 0 0
bbc
How about shipping UK coke to the UK?
15
04/02/2021 10:51:41 6 10
bbc
Why are we opening a coal mine? Build wind turbines, re-instate the tidal power plan in Swansea but let's not go backwards. I want a world for future generations and the UK should set the example in my opinion
41
MVS
04/02/2021 10:54:49 1 2
bbc
All of which need steel...which needs coking coal to make it!
170
04/02/2021 11:07:09 1 0
bbc
you do not need coking coal to make steel go and research it please
42
04/02/2021 10:54:51 5 1
bbc
It isn't just about using less fossil fuel, it is also about fixing gaseous carbon back again
192
04/02/2021 11:12:17 1 0
bbc
I thought that was what photosynthesis does?
15
04/02/2021 10:51:41 6 10
bbc
Why are we opening a coal mine? Build wind turbines, re-instate the tidal power plan in Swansea but let's not go backwards. I want a world for future generations and the UK should set the example in my opinion
43
04/02/2021 10:54:58 0 2
bbc
We are setting a very good example in most areas.

You just need to take of your doom & gloom spectacles.
3
04/02/2021 10:48:46 90 31
bbc
Hardly humiliation. Just one opinion versus another. Remember China and India are building coal fired power stations with gay abandon and are the real danger to climate change.
44
04/02/2021 10:51:46 44 75
bbc
Two wrongs always make a right in BrexitClown Land
353
04/02/2021 11:48:54 7 2
bbc
Lol. Couldn't help yourself could you.
But you have managed to be in the headlines today mate. Daily Star. Have a look.
369
04/02/2021 11:54:12 6 1
bbc
LOL why don't you cull the excess UK population (Scrooge?) then we could close down so much of the country we would contribute diddly squat & China could turn up the thermostat in CCP HQ by half-a-degree.
584
04/02/2021 13:17:10 7 1
bbc
This has got nothing to do with energy production, a very necessary alternative to producing super high grade steel. All very niche and I am happy in Brexit land know that I get my jab this month as opposed to the EU where I might have to wait until the end of summer.
9
04/02/2021 10:50:26 84 30
bbc
Coal from a UK mine will have a smaller carbon footprint than imported coal. It will create British jobs and pay taxation towards paying for Covid. If the UK needs to use the coal it should be British.
45
04/02/2021 10:52:19 28 55
bbc
Smaller carbon footprint???? words fail me
129
04/02/2021 11:04:38 18 4
bbc
Why are you illiterate ?
259
04/02/2021 11:19:37 13 1
bbc
He said 'smaller carbon footprint than imported coal' which bit of that is wrong?
274
04/02/2021 11:22:37 13 1
bbc
Shipping coal from China or Australia has a huge carbon footprint. Ships are dirty oil burning vessels
383
04/02/2021 11:57:09 2 0
bbc
Good
768
04/02/2021 17:54:07 0 0
bbc
If only they would
849
04/02/2021 23:35:32 0 0
bbc
As es your capacity for logic apparently. Transporting coal around the world after it has been mined clearly adds the carbon footprint of the loading, transport & unloading to the mining activity.
875
WTB
05/02/2021 08:31:22 0 0
bbc
I think you will find it was your eyes and brain that failed. Reading is over rated though
8
04/02/2021 10:50:16 25 22
bbc
Humiliated over a coal mine?

Not for being sacked several times from a job as a journalist for lying?
Not for being caught cheating on his wife while she received cancer treatments?
Not for skipping the country so he didn’t have to cast a vote on the airport expansion?
Not for his family & top advisors flout lockdown rules?
Not for his “fantastic” NI deal?
Not for Harding's £14bn T&T app?
46
04/02/2021 10:52:54 4 4
bbc
well said.
25
04/02/2021 10:51:17 4 5
bbc
I wonder what Arthur Scargill would have to say! Vindicated.
47
04/02/2021 10:55:02 0 3
bbc
No probably want the num to pay for a new apartment.
168
04/02/2021 11:06:18 0 0
bbc
What about the Nottinghamshire lot? The DUM (dumb more like) they thought they'd be saved by the Tories by breaking ranks - no they ended up on the slagheap right next to Arthur. Silly petty comment. btw The NUM still own everything you think he ever got from them
3
04/02/2021 10:48:46 90 31
bbc
Hardly humiliation. Just one opinion versus another. Remember China and India are building coal fired power stations with gay abandon and are the real danger to climate change.
48
04/02/2021 10:55:07 9 4
bbc
It’s ok we can rely on China to supply us with steel or we can use plastic instead HA!
27
04/02/2021 10:53:12 134 39
bbc
So we lose the exports and have to import coking coal whilst feeling smug about our green credentials whilst queuing at the food banks
49
04/02/2021 10:55:07 62 22
bbc
Well said
704
04/02/2021 15:45:42 1 3
bbc
How so? Dennis presented an entirely false dilemma here.
50
04/02/2021 10:55:19 26 19
bbc
"Boris Johnson 'risks humiliation"
No problem. Nothing is EVER his fault when you have an electorate that has been totally duped by his and his media buddies lies.
214
04/02/2021 11:14:38 8 6
bbc
You insult the electorates intelligence because they don't agree with you.
15
04/02/2021 10:51:41 6 10
bbc
Why are we opening a coal mine? Build wind turbines, re-instate the tidal power plan in Swansea but let's not go backwards. I want a world for future generations and the UK should set the example in my opinion
51
04/02/2021 10:55:28 1 1
bbc
"Why are we opening a coal mine?"

Read the article. To obtain coal for use in steel-making. Would you prefer us to use more fuel importing coal from elsewhere, or steel from China?

The UK should never cripple itself "setting the example" because no-one will follow that example, just laugh at us as we destroy what's left of our industry to satisfy vociferous greenies.
9
04/02/2021 10:50:26 84 30
bbc
Coal from a UK mine will have a smaller carbon footprint than imported coal. It will create British jobs and pay taxation towards paying for Covid. If the UK needs to use the coal it should be British.
52
04/02/2021 10:55:31 2 1
bbc
However, coal use in Britain is tiny compared to just a few years ago and is tending to zero.
295
04/02/2021 11:28:10 10 0
bbc
I live near to a port which imports a Hugh amount of coal, for the steel industry and power generation. This will be need for a few years more. It has to be better to support uk employment and jobs. How will the UK manage once everyone in charging their 48kw cars at the same time, the power grid struggled at 1/2 time during big football matches due to 2 kw kettle demand
53
04/02/2021 10:55:39 7 3
bbc
Yes we need to keep coal in the ground for the sake of the planet. And that coal should be kept in the ground in Colombia, not in Cumbria.
155
04/02/2021 11:07:32 1 0
bbc
The planet will be fine. Humans maybe not.
25
04/02/2021 10:51:17 4 5
bbc
I wonder what Arthur Scargill would have to say! Vindicated.
54
04/02/2021 10:55:40 1 2
bbc
Hardly. Scargill would still have us all using burning coal to light our houses. He was fairly out of date in the 80s, now he would be positively fossilised.
147
04/02/2021 11:04:07 0 1
bbc
Not relevant. What IS relevant the opening of a new mine vindicates him and trashes the policies of the day which closed most of them.
26
04/02/2021 10:52:59 130 59
bbc
Give it a rest BBC. It is a coking coal mine. There is no renewable alternative. If we don't mine it here we have to import it - with even greater emissions.
55
04/02/2021 10:55:54 70 52
bbc
Don't think you can moan about the BBC on this one, they are just reporting it.
96
04/02/2021 11:01:04 25 13
bbc
But they aren’t just reporting. They are promoting an opinion by putting ‘risks humiliation’ in a headline.
114
04/02/2021 11:03:06 8 9
bbc
Humiliation not a fact
141
04/02/2021 11:05:36 17 13
bbc
they haven't reported news for ages its agenda based scaremongering with a leftist view
227
04/02/2021 11:16:17 16 6
bbc
No its not "just reporting" it.

Roger Harrabin should be making clear his articles are opinion pieces. Instead he conflates comments from his friends at GreenPeace FoE etc to bolster his dogma.

This is the 4th article he has push in 2 months on the same subject.

337
04/02/2021 11:42:27 7 7
bbc
We can moan about the BBC on this. It is just another one of their failed attempts to make the government look bad, because they are upset that their licence fee is going to be taken away in 2027. Expect a lot more of it.
358
04/02/2021 11:49:05 8 7
bbc
MISREPORTING. Spin. Just like they did with Brexit. Untrustworthy new source
362
04/02/2021 11:51:10 5 7
bbc
Convenient, they don't report on the things that don't fit their agenda, like Draghi, not even an MP, being shoe-horned in to form an Italian Government by the Europhiles. Nor do they investigate why the German & French Governments attacked (falsely) the AZ vaccine for use in the old, just after Pfizer's was withdrawn in Norway because elderly were dying after receiving it.
579
04/02/2021 13:13:32 4 2
bbc
No they are not, they are being subjective yet again by calling the antagonist in the story a "leading expert" and further showing no balance. There is no other choice, import or use our own where we have fire tighter green house emissions control.
767
04/02/2021 17:49:47 1 1
bbc
More irresponsible half-baked reporting from Harrabin, telling half a story - his half. Hydrogen can replace coking coal in steel-making but what fuels electricity generation to make the hydrogen by electrolysis? The Swedish examples cited here use hydroelectric power, abundant in Scandinavia but not in UK. (Power supplier is state-owned Vattenfall - Swedish for waterfall).
783
04/02/2021 18:49:11 2 1
bbc
Yes but Mr Harrabin's piece is, as usual, more comment and personal opinion than it is journalism. He needs reminding that he is a reporter and not an opinion piece writer.
796
04/02/2021 19:19:19 1 3
bbc
You must be extremely naive if you think the BBC is 'just reporting' anything about climate change. They are partisan, have never questioned the groupthink/orthodoxy. More holes in the 'man made global warming' theory than a seive. In any case - the answer to reducing carbon which wont prevent climate change, is nuclear power, but that's not enough for the middle class dungaree wearing zealots.
ros
05/02/2021 14:03:42 0 0
bbc
They chose the emotive language , though.
26
04/02/2021 10:52:59 130 59
bbc
Give it a rest BBC. It is a coking coal mine. There is no renewable alternative. If we don't mine it here we have to import it - with even greater emissions.
56
04/02/2021 10:56:00 13 19
bbc
Be careful, they don't like facts.
57
04/02/2021 10:56:03 73 17
bbc
Too much pseudo-propaganda, not enough reporting of the facts.
This has nothing to do with UK energy mix, but everything to do with supplying a UK steel plant with coking fuel.
149
04/02/2021 11:06:49 31 6
bbc
15% for UK steel production, 85%for export.
583
04/02/2021 13:15:00 2 2
bbc
Exactly.
58
04/02/2021 10:56:08 83 15
bbc
There is nothing humiliating about a need for steel-- to build homes and infrastructure (which will be built to the latest sustainability regulations).

If we don't mine the coal, it will be imported.
If we don't produce the steal, it will be imported.

Better to cause that damage in a nation with better wages, regulations, and carbon offsetting than the likes of India or China.
161
04/02/2021 11:08:16 29 37
bbc
There are alternatives for steel production to using coal such as electrolysis and charcoal from sustainable forests. Or just doing so much recycling here (instead of sending it to countries with cheap labour and no environmental laws) that the need for coal is reduced.

The greater flaw in Dr Hansen argument is that Boris Johnson has yet to demonstrate an ability to feel humiliation for anything.
281
04/02/2021 11:25:02 10 1
bbc
Agree fully. The Uks mining industry environmental standards including policing of the planning conditions and standards is the best in the world. We get some of our coking coal from Russia where standards are environmental standards is poor. It’s a no brainer we must produce or own coking coal and become self sufficient, best around.
27
04/02/2021 10:53:12 134 39
bbc
So we lose the exports and have to import coking coal whilst feeling smug about our green credentials whilst queuing at the food banks
59
04/02/2021 10:56:09 12 10
bbc
Foodbanks are directly caused by cutting benefits,poverty in work wages and other Tory govt policies...
718
04/02/2021 16:15:16 2 0
bbc
Nonsense.
39
04/02/2021 10:54:37 15 8
bbc
Currently we are becoming a bit too dependent on gas, (including from Russia), wind, (that can drop), and solar, (eh, what? Sun in the UK!!!). We don't have enough nuclear power plants so we do need adequate conventional supplies.

The beauty of coal is that it's easy and safe to store. As long as it's used as emergency back up, never as a primary power, it's fully justified.
60
04/02/2021 10:56:14 5 1
bbc
Most gas that is used in this country comes from Norway.
443
04/02/2021 12:15:12 1 2
bbc
Lucky, the EU would have switched it off if they supplied it.
61
04/02/2021 10:56:25 37 3
bbc
Maybe professor Hanson should use his influence with Kerry to reduce coal mining in US, push China, India, Australia who all have major mining operations, if the steel industry is to be maintained in UK then coking coal is required until other smelting operations are developed, getting it from UK and not importing from operations in rest of world where we have no control on emissions is a better.
885
05/02/2021 09:26:51 1 1
bbc
Hansen is an out and out lunatic who predicted that New York would be underwater by the year 2000. His retrospective manipulation of temperature data is another scandal.
Why does the BBC promote these pseudoscientists?
62
04/02/2021 10:56:40 4 12
bbc
The North wants employment and industry.
Thatcher destroyed our industrial base.
Now we must rebuild it starting with Coal and Steel.
We mustn’t let a little pollution stand in the way of progress.
108
04/02/2021 11:02:25 1 0
bbc
It's not 'a little pollution'. It's another step towards catastrophic changes for the entire planet. Steel can be produced in solar furnaces or electric arc. With some imagination both are possible in Cumbria, and without any emissions. The jobs and modern skills they'd create for Cumbrians would be rather more valuable in reversing Thatcher than having five people operating a computerised digger.
119
Ian
04/02/2021 11:03:17 1 0
bbc
Agree that we need an industrial base but with consideration for the environment.
A mass council housing program would be a good start, providing many jobs and much needed housing. No good leaving it to the unscrupulous big developers.
34
04/02/2021 10:54:13 159 44
bbc
I am passionate about stopping climate change and protecting our planet and natural habitats. I do however think there may be a case for this mine. Energy generation doesn't need carbon, but steel production still does, there is no current alternative. Better we get the coal locally than abroad, better we create the steel here. Better for the global environment overall. Less emotion, more logic.
63
04/02/2021 10:56:51 64 47
bbc
Here's the alternative. It'll be operating at scale before this mine is producing coal.

https://www.hybritdevelopment.com/
157
04/02/2021 11:08:01 8 3
bbc
Very interesting. There are always ways forward. Remember, coke replaced charcoal, allowing steel production at scale (along wit the Bessemer process etc)
208
04/02/2021 11:13:47 14 1
bbc
Really and you can **prove** this.

If the Climate Emergency is that big an emergency then you dont speculate on technology that is unreliable, or has not got a proven track record. It also needs use less resources.

Problem be solved with Nuclear Power.
Its proven, has a very good track record per TWh of energy produced, & would use less steel & concrete than the equivalent wind farms !
232
Bob
04/02/2021 11:16:47 19 0
bbc
This mine will begin producing coal in 2022.

Per your link "If successful" and "The goal is to have a solution for fossil-free steel by 2035".

So by 2035 they may or may not have their first plant which is some 13 years after this site begins producing coal. And that's before you get into how much supply it can give to the demand.

You are fake news.
264
OwO
04/02/2021 11:20:51 18 0
bbc
2035 is not quite "before" 2022, Roy. Perhaps leave the complicated maths to the adults?
332
04/02/2021 11:43:21 8 0
bbc
from the link .. "The goal is to have a solution for fossil-free steel by 2035. If successful .. " Proving the concept and having a working demonstrator will take until 2035, then scale-up of the facilities and material processes to produce steel in the quantities we need in the economy will take another 10 years. The intended mine has a license to produce until 2049, seems pretty sound thinking.
340
04/02/2021 11:45:32 5 1
bbc
Then we can swap once it is viable, can't we?
352
04/02/2021 11:48:33 5 0
bbc
I read "working by 2035 and if successful..." I think we need the coal for now.
418
04/02/2021 12:08:30 4 0
bbc
Fossil free fuel by 2035? Hardly helpful right now. The whole debate needs balance, if there is genuinely a cost effective fossil free steel producer that can meet our demands then ideally we’ll use that. In reality whilst technology is emerging it isn’t of adequate scale and so we come back to the same debate, pay another country, be in control of our own destiny or do nothing and argue about it
708
04/02/2021 15:55:09 4 0
bbc
No it won't.
The mine will be producing coal by 2024 & the small scale pilot plant you reference will be in the development stage until 2035.
865
05/02/2021 06:23:21 0 0
bbc
Made using hydrogen in Sweden which requires energy dense fossil fuels to produce. Engage your brain, dont just believe the PR. Also think about the sunk costs in steel plants, is this technology so cheap there is a compelling case for changing out old plant?
26
04/02/2021 10:52:59 130 59
bbc
Give it a rest BBC. It is a coking coal mine. There is no renewable alternative. If we don't mine it here we have to import it - with even greater emissions.
64
04/02/2021 10:56:59 5 7
bbc
Not to mention that in the Government's 10-point plan, we're investing £1bn in Carbon Capture, with a focus on power and industrial emissions. If the technology works then emissions from steel production could be sequestered under the north sea!
65
04/02/2021 10:57:11 11 3
bbc
Investing in endogenous diversified energy resources and production and devoloping and maintaining home industries are the signs of good UK governance.
66
04/02/2021 10:57:12 40 7
bbc
Do we need coal?
(perhaps for steel making)
If so mine it ourselves
Saves transport(CO2) from the other side of the world
The Green Revolution can make jobs in the UK
124
04/02/2021 11:04:06 2 7
bbc
We do need coal for wind turbines, this is the irony of "green" renewable energy. Wind turbines are made with steel, and steel is the worse offender of CO2. You are partly right, if we make our own steel, we still have the industy and buildings for it, then it does cut out a massive chunk but its still worse for the environment
238
04/02/2021 11:13:30 1 4
bbc
Who's we? The,article said 85% is being exported to Europe, so clearly it's not for UK use and has to be shipped anyway. There's always an economic excuse to use coal, but the long term cost to the environment far outweighs the short term benefits.
6
MVS
04/02/2021 10:49:58 10 16
bbc
I do not understand the very negative slant in the headline. "Humiliation" in the opinion of the biased scientist, but there are some very eco-friendly reasons for mining coking coal in this country.
2 BBC agendas on display here.
67
04/02/2021 10:53:33 3 0
bbc
poppycock
68
04/02/2021 10:55:10 10 11
bbc
I doubt Johnson cares, most young people despise him any way.
113
04/02/2021 11:00:10 3 0
bbc
Most PEOPLE now despise him. Period.
175
04/02/2021 11:09:45 0 1
bbc
How do you know this? At a secret ballot his party gained an 80 seat majority.
3
04/02/2021 10:48:46 90 31
bbc
Hardly humiliation. Just one opinion versus another. Remember China and India are building coal fired power stations with gay abandon and are the real danger to climate change.
69
04/02/2021 10:57:22 13 10
bbc
If you are going to take this approach then i'd point out that 2 wrongs don't make a right. I would also point out that 25% of Chinas energy is from renewables and they are one of the world leaders in solar power.

Whataboutism is pointless when you don't acknowledge all relevant factors.
70
Ian
04/02/2021 10:57:37 10 10
bbc
Britain's a world leader in climate change? Very worrying.

What I can't see, is why people can't wrap their heads around the real problem and that is capitalism. It's a system that is designed not to work for the vast majority by putting profit for the wealthiest few above everything else.

Corbyn had some good ideas including re nationalisation of what was stolen from us including the NHS!
95
04/02/2021 11:00:51 1 1
bbc
The opening of this mine is because there isn't the technology to produce steel, yet, without using coal.

Capitalism encourages innovation because it rewards people who invest, take risks, and invent things for profit.

You'll have to forgive me, but I'm struggling to remember which inventions we take for granted today that were produced under regimes that owned everything and restricted freedom
156
04/02/2021 11:07:37 0 2
bbc
To achieve power you need not just ideas, you need to be able to convince the voters to believe in you.

Corbyn didn't realise (and probably still doesn't) the perceived threat of Russian communism in the 20th century is ingrained in the UK voting population; his ideology was too similar to communism to be palatable.

Corbyn's policies that were ideology based and not driven by climate concerns.
71
04/02/2021 10:57:41 11 18
bbc
He's a humiliation to this country whatever he does........
91
04/02/2021 11:00:38 2 2
bbc
Missing shouting insults at the other 8 year olds in the playground are you?
126
04/02/2021 11:04:20 0 2
bbc
Do some research
29
04/02/2021 10:53:30 64 20
bbc
We need this one mine to supply coal for steel manufacturing. Better this than importing the high polluting brown coal that is mined elsewhere.

Even those people who profess the greenest of credentials need steel for their electric cars and wind turbines.
72
04/02/2021 10:57:45 21 47
bbc
You don't need coking coal to make steel.

https://www.hybritdevelopment.com/
268
04/02/2021 11:21:22 9 0
bbc
Please go and read your own link. Right at the start it says "During 2018, work started on the construction of a pilot plant for fossil-free steel production in Luleå, Sweden. The goal is to have a solution for fossil-free steel by 2035." How do you expect steel to be produced for the next 14 years without coking coal?
272
04/02/2021 11:22:14 3 0
bbc
The problem is its not eally viable, espically with no infrastucture
395
04/02/2021 12:00:30 4 0
bbc
You do on an industrial scale. Come back when that isn't an experiment.
737
04/02/2021 16:36:00 2 0
bbc
Wrong.

Stop telling lies.

Your link states this as yet unbuilt plant will be in its development stage until at least 2035.
790
ian
04/02/2021 19:07:32 0 0
bbc
Where will you get the carbon from then
73
04/02/2021 10:57:48 109 2
bbc
Genuine question - is there a current, viable method for making steel without coking coal? I'm sure there is research going on but how many years before alternatives can be rolled out?

I feel it is immoral to close coking coal mines and steel furnaces in this country only to pay someone in another country to do it all for us there so that we can say we are "greener".
102
04/02/2021 11:01:53 32 30
bbc
It can be done using hydrogen, it's just more expensive.
117
04/02/2021 11:03:15 6 5
bbc
"Genuine question - is there a current, viable method for making steel without coking coal? "

Recycle scrap.
183
04/02/2021 11:11:08 10 4
bbc
Yes.

http://www.fchea.org/in-transition/2019/11/25/hydrogen-in-the-iron-and-steel-industry

As for the recycling of scrap? 45% of steel is produced worldwide using electric arc furnaces and scrap steel. This figure increases annually. The traditional reasons for using blast furnaces (concerns over quality) are less pressing nowadays, as advances in electric arc remelt allow higher quality steel.
230
04/02/2021 11:16:37 2 6
bbc
Yes, there is an alternative: https://www.hybritdevelopment.com/
366
04/02/2021 11:53:02 5 2
bbc
In short no!
455
Ian
04/02/2021 12:19:41 5 2
bbc
The electric arc furnace is the alternative to the blast furnace. Electric arc furnaces use scrap metal as feedstock too - but it's not suitable for many steel products we need
721
04/02/2021 16:20:05 2 1
bbc
Importing stuff is probably the least green thing to do. We really want to be green stop importing. Not only are the products made in abhorrent Chinese pollution factories with appalling rates of pay/welfare, poor conditions, no pollution controls, inferior quality. They are then shipped in huge polluting container ships half way around the world. It is absolute madness!!
889
05/02/2021 09:42:54 0 0
bbc
Absolutely right.
Early iron production used charcoal as the carbon source, so a lot of trees were used.
As the demand for steel, a very useful product, rose, converting coal to coke was a more sustainable source.
Basically, you need to reduce iron oxide to iron at high temperature.
Some talk here of hydrogen.
OK, where does all this hydrogen come from? No free lunches I'm afraid.
74
Ian
bbc
Johnson ?? is using Covid ?? to bury ? stories of his incompetence.

As vaccinations ?? kick in, fewer headlines ?? will be about Covid ?? and the cracks in Johnson's ?? government will become uncovered in other areas. And they'll be mighty disturbing.
Removed
142
04/02/2021 11:06:02 0 1
bbc
You are a ?? for using emojies to draw attention to your banal comment....
21
Hex
04/02/2021 10:52:38 35 4
bbc
Need coking coal to make steel so don't have a lot of choice. We either get it here and support UK jobs or we import it.
75
04/02/2021 10:58:06 9 12
bbc
You can, unfortunately rather than looking to the future developing cleaner electrical methods for steel production we are relying on antiquated methods.
283
04/02/2021 11:25:14 5 0
bbc
The coal is not primarily for heating the furnace - although it does do that. It is needed to react with the iron oxides to remove the oxygen (a chemical process known as reducing). Hydrogen is also a reducing agent, but the Hydrogen alternative to coal is in early development and is only expected to be available for general steel production from around 2035.
294
04/02/2021 11:27:21 3 0
bbc
No you need the carbon from coal to obtain the required strength of the steel. It is not used to power the steel plant, it is an ingredient of steel making.
412
04/02/2021 12:06:19 3 0
bbc
You do realise don't you that the Carbon in the coal is the 'reducing agent' that removes the Oxygen from the Iron Oxide that it also heats the furnace is excellent. So we pump in electricity to heat up the ore - what do we use as the reducing agent? I believe they used to teach that as part of O level Chemistry.
748
04/02/2021 16:45:07 0 0
bbc
No. We're relying on the only economically viable, proven methods, whilst at the same time developing possible alternatives.
It's not an "either/or" thing...
789
ian
04/02/2021 19:04:45 0 0
bbc
What do you mean by electrical methods, you do know that steel is an alloy of iron and carbon ie coke
850
04/02/2021 23:39:14 0 0
bbc
Antiquated as in the only proven method currently available!
76
04/02/2021 10:58:09 6 5
bbc
I very much doubt that Johnson will feel any "humiliation" projected onto him by a former researcher.

Good click bait article though.
77
Bob
04/02/2021 10:58:15 9 7
bbc
Another classic case of a environment busy-body trying to make you think they're doing the world a favour when in reality they've just isolated an issue and refuse to accept the larger view.

A bit like how plastic consumption for shopping bags has grown since the introduction of the bag charge, not fallen, because reusable bags aren't reused enough to counterbalance the disposable ones.
123
04/02/2021 11:03:54 0 0
bbc
Billions of plastic masks going into landfill and the sea
78
DBM
04/02/2021 10:58:37 7 7
bbc
This very complex as the world is urging India, China, Australia to ditch coal and yet we are prepared rightly or wrongly to open up a new mine. As we have seen with the pandemic and wars in general, technology accelerates at times of crisis, our climate is in crisis so maybe its time to develop alternates and stop coal sending a message to the world.
79
04/02/2021 10:55:26 12 11
bbc
Well there’s a surprise.....all that blather about green initiatives and all the time Rees-Mogg and his mates were planning to lower standards in accordance with Hardline Deregulating ERG Spiv theology.
125
04/02/2021 11:04:16 0 2
bbc
How is mining coking coal in the UK as opposed to importing it lowering standards?
28
04/02/2021 10:53:21 4 5
bbc
Technology has moved on you know. There is such a thing called clean coal. We still have big reserves of coal. It is ridiculous not to make more use of them.
80
04/02/2021 10:55:30 2 1
bbc
Bet you had a different view of coalmining and miners in the 80s mate. And none of your concerns involved the environment.
81
04/02/2021 10:55:36 7 14
bbc
Boris Johnson 'risks humiliation' over coal mine.

Why not ? He has had to face up to humiliation over every word that comes out of his mouth.
12
04/02/2021 10:51:22 24 6
bbc
I see 85% of it is destined for export to Europe. At least it won't go off while waiting for the right paperwork.
82
04/02/2021 10:58:57 22 10
bbc
Better to export this than use some of the dirty high sulphur coal burnt in Germany at the moment.
586
04/02/2021 13:18:52 2 2
bbc
Ah but the Reomoaners would be happy with that as it comes from the EU
854
SJ
05/02/2021 00:33:39 1 0
bbc
Eh ?
83
04/02/2021 10:59:05 44 19
bbc
The only thing that's Humiliating is the headline.

We need to produce more in the UK
This will help us achieve that goal
959
jon
05/02/2021 11:28:40 1 0
bbc
Yes, Germany has no problem with non-green energy, even a pipeline from Russia.
6
MVS
04/02/2021 10:49:58 10 16
bbc
I do not understand the very negative slant in the headline. "Humiliation" in the opinion of the biased scientist, but there are some very eco-friendly reasons for mining coking coal in this country.
2 BBC agendas on display here.
84
04/02/2021 10:59:19 4 0
bbc
Johnson is hosting an international climate summit and his government is ducking out of making a stance. Who is going to believe our commitment when we run away from difficult decisions on the subject. You seem to conclude that anyone disagreeing with you has an agenda.
85
04/02/2021 10:59:57 15 3
bbc
Government Humiliated. I think he over exaggerates peoples attitudes. Personally I have no issues with this as coal is still needed in certain process's such as steel production. Better to do it here that ship it in from other countries. I get the urgency in wanting to reduce greenhouse gases. but we still need to remain realistic.
253
04/02/2021 11:19:00 3 6
bbc
We do have a choice and there is an alternative: https://www.hybritdevelopment.com/
86
04/02/2021 11:00:03 4 4
bbc
typical climate rubbish we need coal why? because we are too scared of the word nuclear and renewables are not economical only when the lights go out will you wake up to the truth
257
04/02/2021 11:19:25 0 0
bbc
We need steel for the renewable energy.
87
04/02/2021 11:00:12 8 3
bbc
The key reactions in the blast furnace are ;
CO2+C= 2CO....
Fe2O3+ 2CO= 2Fe + 2CO2....

The CO2 in the secong equation
becomes the feedstock for more carbon monoxide. This is why high carbon content "coke" is required.
131
04/02/2021 11:04:48 5 5
bbc
Not necessarily.
http://www.fchea.org/in-transition/2019/11/25/hydrogen-in-the-iron-and-steel-industry

Using hydrogen reduction gives you water vapour instead of CO2. Look at what the bigger players in the industry are doing - they're seeking to move away from coking coal.
26
04/02/2021 10:52:59 130 59
bbc
Give it a rest BBC. It is a coking coal mine. There is no renewable alternative. If we don't mine it here we have to import it - with even greater emissions.
88
04/02/2021 11:00:30 14 7
bbc
There's a couple of renewable alternatives. One is hydrogen reduction of steel - see:

https://www.hybritdevelopment.com/

The other is electric arc furnace production using scrap steel. 45% of world steel is already made this way, and the proportion rises year on year. We've 700MT of excess capacity worldwide for steelmaking too.
724
04/02/2021 16:23:32 3 1
bbc
Scrap steel is 30% & there's a global shortage.

Hydrogen steel is decades away - even your link admits to development being ongoing until at least 2035.

Plus, WHERE IS THE HYDROGEN GOING TO COME FROM?

If you say electrolysis, then where is the electricity going to come from?
89
04/02/2021 11:00:31 0 3
bbc
Well what do you expect, the stupidity of "green" energy is you need coal to make it. wind turbines (something that is "green" (though not really)) is made from steel, You need coal for steel. Want a better environment, use water wheels and wood. Steel is one of the worst offenders of CO2, and is much more intensive than even meat.
144
04/02/2021 11:06:40 3 0
bbc
You don't need coal to make steel.

http://www.fchea.org/in-transition/2019/11/25/hydrogen-in-the-iron-and-steel-industry

Wind generated electricity has the lowest carbon intensity of any power source bar large scale hydro.

'Steel is one of the worst offenders of CO2'? Not even close. There's numerous every day products with a higher embodied energy than steel. Embodied energy = CO2.
172
VoR
04/02/2021 11:09:24 2 0
bbc
Not all wind turbines are made from steel.
15
04/02/2021 10:51:41 6 10
bbc
Why are we opening a coal mine? Build wind turbines, re-instate the tidal power plan in Swansea but let's not go backwards. I want a world for future generations and the UK should set the example in my opinion
90
04/02/2021 11:00:37 0 1
bbc
What are wind turbine structures made from? The turbine blades are epoxy resin which is oil derived, land based wind turbines use approx 600 cubic metres of concrete for each base. Its a coke mine needed for steel making to build lots of our green projects so a necessary evil.
71
04/02/2021 10:57:41 11 18
bbc
He's a humiliation to this country whatever he does........
91
04/02/2021 11:00:38 2 2
bbc
Missing shouting insults at the other 8 year olds in the playground are you?
649
04/02/2021 14:33:43 0 0
bbc
He's not going to leave Carrie for you Jez........
92
04/02/2021 10:57:47 7 5
bbc
Total hypocrisy, but that is what we have come to expect under the current government.
240
04/02/2021 11:17:17 1 3
bbc
Just one word........vaccines.
93
04/02/2021 10:58:24 4 5
bbc
Trumpism.
20
04/02/2021 10:52:22 5 8
bbc
Its another case of do what I say and not what I do.
Too many mates will lose money if cancelled.
94
04/02/2021 11:00:47 1 1
bbc
Really you have no idea what you are talking about.
70
Ian
04/02/2021 10:57:37 10 10
bbc
Britain's a world leader in climate change? Very worrying.

What I can't see, is why people can't wrap their heads around the real problem and that is capitalism. It's a system that is designed not to work for the vast majority by putting profit for the wealthiest few above everything else.

Corbyn had some good ideas including re nationalisation of what was stolen from us including the NHS!
95
04/02/2021 11:00:51 1 1
bbc
The opening of this mine is because there isn't the technology to produce steel, yet, without using coal.

Capitalism encourages innovation because it rewards people who invest, take risks, and invent things for profit.

You'll have to forgive me, but I'm struggling to remember which inventions we take for granted today that were produced under regimes that owned everything and restricted freedom
515
CH
04/02/2021 12:39:43 0 0
bbc
The AK47 - roundly recognised as a brilliant bit of engineering copied the world over.

Or Lada cars. OK maybe not that one.
55
04/02/2021 10:55:54 70 52
bbc
Don't think you can moan about the BBC on this one, they are just reporting it.
96
04/02/2021 11:01:04 25 13
bbc
But they aren’t just reporting. They are promoting an opinion by putting ‘risks humiliation’ in a headline.
206
04/02/2021 11:13:31 4 14
bbc
The BBC are run by a tory.
503
04/02/2021 12:34:08 3 3
bbc
The very first line of the article, The LEADING climate scientist James Hansen has warned Boris Johnson that he risks “humiliation“ over plans for a new coal mine in Cumbria.

They are literally quoting someone, thats how it works, you report what experts say.

Perhaps for balance they should have quoted someone who said "Nuh Uh YOUR risking humiliation, cause I am rubber you are glue..."?
868
RPH
05/02/2021 07:06:31 0 0
bbc
No they put "Risks Humiliation' in quotes. Or shouldn't people you disagree with be heard?
23
04/02/2021 10:52:46 45 8
bbc
The choice is between mining coal in another country and transporting it to the UK or mine the coal in the UK. Which of these two options are better for the environment. The answer is mining in the UK and there are also economic benefits.
97
04/02/2021 11:01:12 8 29
bbc
There's nothing much in it. Transport is a *very* small part of the overall emissions from using coking coal.
250
04/02/2021 11:18:30 5 1
bbc
Provide a link. From a credible source
398
04/02/2021 12:02:12 2 2
bbc
LOL, 'small part'? Do you know the UK's contribution to CO2 compared to the RoW Anyway we need more global warming, look at Europe, covered in snow.
775
04/02/2021 18:35:31 3 1
bbc
Really? Have you given any thought to where the Ships suddenly appear from? I think you'll find they're made of steel: which needs large quantities of coke: which needs large quantities of coal.......Some where over the rainbow?
05/02/2021 23:53:54 0 0
bbc
Yes. I make shipping emissions of coal about 2% of that of its use. This is using a 2009 IMO study of greenhouse emissions of around 3gCO2e/tonne/km, and assuming imported coking coal comes from Australia (most actually comes from USA).

Where the coke for steel comes from is a red herring. What matters is the total extraction of fossil fuels.
98
04/02/2021 11:01:26 3 5
bbc
Ian 10:57
... Corbyn had some good ideas ...

Oh Ian, Ian, Ian, you were doing so well and then veered off into the world of fantasy ...
228
04/02/2021 11:16:19 0 1
bbc
Doing so well? Please evidence as can't think of any.
99
04/02/2021 11:01:40 2 4
bbc
A poor decision by the local council.The government caught out on this one.
100
04/02/2021 11:01:43 2 1
bbc
As I understand it, if you want Steel you need Coking coal. You could rely on China, have worse global emissions and risks, but is that a good idea
For me the issue is quite simple, if this new plant is more efficient, and less polluting, it is better than using other UK sources or importing it.
What I don't agree on, is that this is a local issue