Electric cars: Rollout of charging points still too slow
02/02/2021 | news | business | 395
The charge-point infrastructure may not be ready for when new petrol and diesel cars are banned.
1
02/02/2021 10:24:06 54 11
bbc
Unfortunately I will not be getting an electric car until they reduce the prices, and I also expect the eco warriors to go after the battery manufacturers in the future which will add more costs to new cars.
11
02/02/2021 10:36:05 34 8
bbc
I agree costs far too high at present. Also, I like long journeys and until VERY fast charging is available, electric cars are not suitable.
41
02/02/2021 11:04:37 5 3
bbc
Something tells me the 2030 ban won't happen unless very considerable strides have been taken with respect to both cost and usability. Pricing millions off the roads with all the social and economic consequences that entails will be a pretty big issue at the ballot box.
64
02/02/2021 11:07:36 5 3
bbc
The motor industry itself says price parity will be reached in about two years time. After that ICE ownership will be taxed heavily too. Whatever you think, you are unlikely to be driving an ICE vehicle in a decades time.
69
02/02/2021 11:12:02 0 5
bbc
I think you'll be seeing a lot of people buying self charging hybrids for the forseeable future. No need to plug them in.
144
02/02/2021 11:57:51 2 0
bbc
BEVs are expected to be cheaper than combustion vehicles in about 2-3 years, but they are already cheaper on total cost of ownership, in future only the rich will be able to run a combustion car (no matter how cheap it is to buy). More average earners will be able to afford a BEV just on the money they save on fuel.
2
02/02/2021 10:24:26 3 1
bbc
You don't say.
3
02/02/2021 10:29:44 5 1
bbc
the old picture of the rolls Royce being pulled by a horse comes to mind.
4
02/02/2021 10:31:19 9 4
bbc
Tell me, how will charging points be provided for every house on a traditional Victorian street with terraced houses which don't have driveways or garages? Its cloud cuckoo land.
210
02/02/2021 12:43:10 1 5
bbc
The chargers will be placed under the road and work in the same way as wireless charging used by mobile phones
323
02/02/2021 16:18:43 0 0
bbc
How many of those terraced houses have a petrol pump at them now?
5
02/02/2021 10:31:21 7 4
bbc
Electric Cars are exciting development BUT:
1. Difficult to buy until extensive infrastructure is in place/ proven
2. Car Battery manufacture/raw materials are among some of the most appalling CSR and standards in the world - DRC for example - and disposal of same (and associated carbon footprint) MUST be challenged now
3. Remember diesel to save CO2 then impact worked out batteries could be same
6
02/02/2021 10:32:12 2 7
bbc
It's not what the car manufacturers want to hear but this is the wrong debate!

The debate needs to switch to LESS car ownership with modern tech.

Once people move away from mass/multiple car ownership, brand obsession and back to its core function (mobility) we can have centralised charging, less cars on roads and better mobility options.
17
02/02/2021 10:40:30 3 2
bbc
Who wants to drive a car that some scumbag has just driven and left in a scummy state.
43
02/02/2021 11:07:31 0 0
bbc
Ooh spot the Trekkie fan??

" Greta Beam me to the COP26" !!!

Have you actually thought through the issues of removing too many cars?
NHS, trade-people a lone would be massively affected.

More public transport? Thats a false eco-argument! The number of buses that will be needed to be of any use to the majority is astronomical. Or you end up dictating when & how people can go anywhere.
7
02/02/2021 10:32:51 62 7
bbc
Can't remember which minister it was being interviewed
When asked about problems of charging points in highly congested/populated areas where people are lucky if they can park 100yds from home, her answer was, we don't know, that's for local councils to figure out
Simple fact, unless you can charge as quickly as you can fuel, our high density urban areas are just not suitable for electric charging
65
02/02/2021 11:08:43 21 49
bbc
A US company has a battery that ids close to being fully charged in 10 minutes. The technology is moving at pace. Stinky ICE cars will soon be museum pieces.
150
02/02/2021 12:01:01 1 0
bbc
Or you solve the overnight charging problem where you park. We need charge points and dedicated EV only permanent parking (ie you can park there as long as you want) for the 10M owners without public parking. Although many are fed up with the lack of parking and moving to car share schemes.
267
02/02/2021 13:41:20 2 2
bbc
'may not be ready'? It won't be even remotely ready and there's no sign yet of anything much happening about building the raft of nuclear power stations that will be needed to stop the National Grid collapsing under all the extra load on windless nights. When you add this 'enforced milkfloats' scheme of Priness Nut Nut's, relying on wind and sun to power the Grid looks even more stupid
386
03/02/2021 07:38:14 0 0
bbc
One solution for the ones not able to charge at home would be charging up at work, assuming the battery range was sufficient.
Not everyone needs to charge the car at home.
391
03/02/2021 09:48:18 0 0
bbc
Yes, that may be true. However they do have a head start compared with uncongested/low populated/rural areas when it come to PT. Does having a car in London make any sense when you can't park it nearby & if you can you may have to pay, the roads are congested & larger items can be (and usually are) delivered. Make local councils choose between spending on PT or subsidising home charging.
8
02/02/2021 10:33:10 9 3
bbc
I live in Newham London and I pay for zonal parking. If I was allocated a reserved bay outside of my house I would happily pay extra and install a charging point and purchase an electric vehicle. Untill that happens I cannot risk being unable to charge a vehicle.
381
03/02/2021 03:17:11 0 0
bbc
Yep and the council is now charging you for having a petrol car while we only have 4 electric car charging points!!
9
02/02/2021 10:34:49 2 6
bbc
people dont realize we can make diesel but not petrol so spend money looking at ways to make diesel more safe.
10
02/02/2021 10:34:52 9 2
bbc
If we are to stop the sale of new petrol and diesel cars by 2030 then the fact is we have to hurry up with rolling out the infrastructure needed. It’s okay having electric only by then but if people can’t power their cars there’s not much point!

Surely would have been a better idea to get all the infrastructure in place first? Could be very lucrative for British manufacturing.
46
02/02/2021 11:08:08 4 1
bbc
Seem to remember there was a free scheme back in 2013, but Cut the green crap Cameron put an end to that !!!
161
02/02/2021 12:10:17 0 2
bbc
Its not going to happen. Come 2030 they will still be arguing about where and how to install/power the charging points.

And before then all the pie in the sky ICE banning legislation will have been reversed.
1
02/02/2021 10:24:06 54 11
bbc
Unfortunately I will not be getting an electric car until they reduce the prices, and I also expect the eco warriors to go after the battery manufacturers in the future which will add more costs to new cars.
11
02/02/2021 10:36:05 34 8
bbc
I agree costs far too high at present. Also, I like long journeys and until VERY fast charging is available, electric cars are not suitable.
192
02/02/2021 12:26:30 2 1
bbc
UK needs to ad new nuclear stations quickly to meet demand, but they have the last two on order now cancelled...
12
02/02/2021 10:36:25 11 7
bbc
The council installed some of these in the streets where I live. I rarely (if ever) see them in use. Just takes away parking spaces for the rest of us. I think the council have over-estimated the demand.
13
02/02/2021 10:37:45 20 8
bbc
We could install charging points outside every house in the country, but it'd be pointless unless we build sufficient power stations to provide the electricity.
20
02/02/2021 10:42:25 13 5
bbc
Even then, wouldn't be enough charging points
Many households have multiple vehicle ownership
320
02/02/2021 16:06:33 3 0
bbc
If every car in UK was suddenly an EV, our average national electricity consumption would increase by just 6%. Installed generating capacity in the UK has increased 23% in the past 2 years, and EV's would provide a dispersed storage system. Some very clever people at National Grid have thought of this and are well ahead of you.
14
02/02/2021 10:38:26 12 6
bbc
It's not just the charging points we need. We also need the massive amounts of extra electricity to come out of those charging points (and it needs to be green or whats the point). No way in the world this is going to happen by 2030.
39
02/02/2021 11:02:08 14 8
bbc
Renewables is the answer, well according to the eco-worriers.

Yet we have 24GW of wind farms 11 GW of solar, etc. so more than 35GW of electricity. Yet we are burning Coal & Gas to keep the lights on & heating pumps running.

Greens on purpose forget the issues because it doesnt fit their religion. Add the 14GW needed on average to keep all the EVs running then even bigger issues.
169
02/02/2021 12:14:06 4 3
bbc
Ah, yes, solar energy for charging all the cars parked at night. Uh, hang on.....
15
02/02/2021 10:39:37 4 2
bbc
Ecowarriors will not be happy until all powered vehicle use is prohibited. Their tactics have changed, at first it was exhaust gasses but EVs do not have any. Then it was brake dust particulates but thanks to regen braking EVs use their brake pads much less than ICE vehicles (5-10x less) so now it is tyre particulates and EVs because they are heavier do produce more.
33
02/02/2021 10:57:23 5 1
bbc
They have caught up in there own web of fear.

Their dogma is so easy to debunk, like you have done.

Eco-alarmists forget all the logistics needed to keep society functioning. Yet to them they will happily destroy society by forbidding transport. Just hope they dont need NHS, food, or couples working 5 miles apart.
send aload of ferrets down the eco warriors tunnnel Removed
6
02/02/2021 10:32:12 2 7
bbc
It's not what the car manufacturers want to hear but this is the wrong debate!

The debate needs to switch to LESS car ownership with modern tech.

Once people move away from mass/multiple car ownership, brand obsession and back to its core function (mobility) we can have centralised charging, less cars on roads and better mobility options.
17
02/02/2021 10:40:30 3 2
bbc
Who wants to drive a car that some scumbag has just driven and left in a scummy state.
57
02/02/2021 11:15:34 0 0
bbc
Chauffeur driven versions are currently available, taxis.
18
02/02/2021 10:40:40 5 8
bbc
Charging points are no the answer. We need hot-swappable battery stations. Let someone else do the charging. Pick up a charged battery, drive away (for a cost) and save the charging time. Why haven't manufacturers latched on to this. We don't need charging points in our streets!
21
02/02/2021 10:43:47 6 2
bbc
Probably because it's not so simple as changing the batteries in your remote.
25
02/02/2021 10:48:36 2 1
bbc
Sounds like a good idea but can you ever see manufacturers agreeing? Remember VHS or Betamax video?? Even if they did agree, the practicalities of having compatible batteries and easily swappable fitting is a very big ask.
27
02/02/2021 10:50:43 3 1
bbc
Hot swap 250 kg. ie 4x the weight of an adult in the UK.

How? Its a nice idea but the devils in the detail.

Hydrogen solid storage is more realistic as it is more dense than the battery.
56
02/02/2021 11:01:49 0 0
bbc
I don't think you have studied or worked in any practical industries have you. This battery swap nonsense was put to bed years ago.
19
02/02/2021 10:41:36 26 10
bbc
The hardest places to put in enough chargers is highly populated City urban areas, often where people have to park on the path
These people won't be able to make use of an EV
Only those living in more spacious areas
Sadly this means the polluting vehicles are still going to be in the areas where their pollution is most damaging

EVs ??
Hydrogen ??
22
02/02/2021 10:44:07 19 2
bbc
Well if you live in a City urban area then you won't own a car by 2030 of any kind. That's really the plan.
255
02/02/2021 13:27:24 4 1
bbc
Hydrogen is not the answer. Hydrogen is more dangerous than petrol, even, and harder to ship and contain.
13
02/02/2021 10:37:45 20 8
bbc
We could install charging points outside every house in the country, but it'd be pointless unless we build sufficient power stations to provide the electricity.
20
02/02/2021 10:42:25 13 5
bbc
Even then, wouldn't be enough charging points
Many households have multiple vehicle ownership
321
02/02/2021 16:07:13 0 0
bbc
Do these multi vehicle households only have one electrical socket?
18
02/02/2021 10:40:40 5 8
bbc
Charging points are no the answer. We need hot-swappable battery stations. Let someone else do the charging. Pick up a charged battery, drive away (for a cost) and save the charging time. Why haven't manufacturers latched on to this. We don't need charging points in our streets!
21
02/02/2021 10:43:47 6 2
bbc
Probably because it's not so simple as changing the batteries in your remote.
363
02/02/2021 19:42:12 0 0
bbc
Yes it is. A lot of large warehouses have auto swap machines for forklifts. All it needs is common voltages, sizes and connections, after all we basically have diesel or unleaded fuel.

Simply say 'all you car makers decide within 18 months or the Government will decide for you' and it will happen.
19
02/02/2021 10:41:36 26 10
bbc
The hardest places to put in enough chargers is highly populated City urban areas, often where people have to park on the path
These people won't be able to make use of an EV
Only those living in more spacious areas
Sadly this means the polluting vehicles are still going to be in the areas where their pollution is most damaging

EVs ??
Hydrogen ??
22
02/02/2021 10:44:07 19 2
bbc
Well if you live in a City urban area then you won't own a car by 2030 of any kind. That's really the plan.
55
02/02/2021 11:01:01 3 0
bbc
Yep. In cities you will just have membership of organisations that allow you to call up a car as and when you need it. No need for car ownership in cities any more.
23
02/02/2021 10:44:22 38 6
bbc
This is a classic case of cart before the horse. Selling electric cars without proper infrastructure in place. How the hell are they going to put chargers outside houses in narrow streets and in urban areas where people end up parking on paths etc.
26
02/02/2021 10:49:15 24 4
bbc
I don't think it will matter because the overall plan is for no cars of any kind in cities. People will be expected to walk, cycle or use public transport.
40
02/02/2021 11:04:07 1 1
bbc
Plus tea leaves for the cables, can see this being big business!
66
02/02/2021 11:09:51 3 4
bbc
There is talk of legislation to ban pavement parking. Which I think is a good move, stinky fat revolting cars have no place on the pedestrian pavement.
105
02/02/2021 11:37:59 6 0
bbc
and yet ICE cars took off without a national network of petrol stations being built first - how did that happen?
133
02/02/2021 11:53:11 1 0
bbc
How about they just put the charger in the narrow streets? If you can fit cars you can fit chargers! They just need to be level 2 overnight chargers like people have in their houses. There are many options such a pop chargers, inductive road panels, pavement gullies etc. We don't want 10M people fast charging during the day, it defeats the benefit of BEVs for the grid.
243
02/02/2021 13:16:24 1 0
bbc
I wonder how they get the electricity into street lights? All it needs is a slow charge speed for overnight use. 5 Kw x 10 hours is enough to charge an EV for daily use
315
02/02/2021 15:57:02 2 0
bbc
When petrol cars were first introduced you had to go into a chemist shop to buy petrol in bottles, so it wasn't exactly convenient.
392
03/02/2021 12:29:43 0 0
bbc
80% of my BEV charging is using mains at my own premises. A further 18% is with premises owners' permission. Only 2% for very long journeys requires public chargers. Those who don't have on-premises charging still get much cheaper fuel from public charge points compared to cost of petrol/diesel.
24
02/02/2021 10:48:17 22 12
bbc
The cost of public charge point is around £20K. This is on top of the Public charge points are going to be on the business electric tariffs which are at least 3x more expensive than the domestic tariffs.

So yes EV charging is **not** cheap.
Shoves the pollution to somewhere else

Not exactly green

https://www.current-news.co.uk/news/cornwall-to-rollout-150-new-ev-chargers-with-2-9m-funding
74
02/02/2021 11:18:37 11 15
bbc
One of the big energy companies has just announced that it is introducing an economy rate for electric vehicle charging. Stop spreading oil industry disinformation.
77
02/02/2021 11:22:10 4 1
bbc
"Shoves the pollution to somewhere else"

The grid is getting cleaner all the time, see below.

"Coal generated only 1.6% of the electricity mix in 2020, compared with almost 25% five years ago."

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero-stories/2020-greenest-year-record-britain
79
02/02/2021 11:23:44 3 1
bbc
And your solution is ...... ?

Ah yes, we don't need to do anything at all, because everything is absolutely fine.
127
02/02/2021 11:49:11 3 1
bbc
Fast chargers cost about 20K, level 2 overnight chargers cost about £1000 after installation. Level 2 is supplied by off peak electricity and will be cheaper than normal or peak rate.
EV charging is "cheap" and is far more efficent than a combustion engine so it IS "green" even if that electricity is produced by fossil generators.
18
02/02/2021 10:40:40 5 8
bbc
Charging points are no the answer. We need hot-swappable battery stations. Let someone else do the charging. Pick up a charged battery, drive away (for a cost) and save the charging time. Why haven't manufacturers latched on to this. We don't need charging points in our streets!
25
02/02/2021 10:48:36 2 1
bbc
Sounds like a good idea but can you ever see manufacturers agreeing? Remember VHS or Betamax video?? Even if they did agree, the practicalities of having compatible batteries and easily swappable fitting is a very big ask.
23
02/02/2021 10:44:22 38 6
bbc
This is a classic case of cart before the horse. Selling electric cars without proper infrastructure in place. How the hell are they going to put chargers outside houses in narrow streets and in urban areas where people end up parking on paths etc.
26
02/02/2021 10:49:15 24 4
bbc
I don't think it will matter because the overall plan is for no cars of any kind in cities. People will be expected to walk, cycle or use public transport.
18
02/02/2021 10:40:40 5 8
bbc
Charging points are no the answer. We need hot-swappable battery stations. Let someone else do the charging. Pick up a charged battery, drive away (for a cost) and save the charging time. Why haven't manufacturers latched on to this. We don't need charging points in our streets!
27
02/02/2021 10:50:43 3 1
bbc
Hot swap 250 kg. ie 4x the weight of an adult in the UK.

How? Its a nice idea but the devils in the detail.

Hydrogen solid storage is more realistic as it is more dense than the battery.
35
02/02/2021 10:58:47 1 0
bbc
The technology for hot swapping has already been tried and tested. It is the political will that needs to be tested. If a declaration is made by all nations to take a particular route, then this can be accomplished. But you are asking a lot of politicians!
225
02/02/2021 12:52:35 0 0
bbc
Hot swapping is possible. See below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTsrDpsYHrw
28
02/02/2021 10:50:46 16 1
bbc
New Euro Garages in north wales, had 2 pods marked but then changed & installed 2 self car washers instead, no wonder so many are not even considering an EV as there is little Fast 100kWh charging in over 20 miles.
132
02/02/2021 11:52:46 7 2
bbc
No 100kW charging, but 50kW ones at Morrison's & the Ramada hotel across town, and multiple 7kW ones in the council car parks.
331
02/02/2021 16:37:54 0 2
bbc
EG will be sticking charge points in what they own now

ASDA

Big hype, charge your car up while you shop, a slow charge so you spend more time in Asda buying stuff you dont need.

bet they will charge top price as well to charge a car up
29
02/02/2021 10:52:07 34 21
bbc
Its still the wrong technology .... welcome to Betamax Britain...
31
02/02/2021 10:55:33 27 0
bbc
The funny thing is, Betamax was a better technology (not as good as Video2000 though), yet still failed in the consumer market.
73
02/02/2021 11:16:13 5 0
bbc
Please enlighten us on what is the right technology.
100
02/02/2021 11:36:32 4 6
bbc
Quite, it's going to cost billions to upgrade the National Grid to be able to cope and that's before we even add any extra generating capacity cost. The cost of smart meters is going to be £14bn and rising, that will look like chump change compared to what is to come.
30
02/02/2021 10:54:09 5 8
bbc
Insufficient power at grid level. Insufficient capacity at grid level.
60
02/02/2021 11:16:32 2 0
bbc
Not according to the National Grid, but I guess you must know more than they do about the national power grid, and generation capacity
102
02/02/2021 11:37:16 1 0
bbc
Another myth, one more and my card is filled for this article!
29
02/02/2021 10:52:07 34 21
bbc
Its still the wrong technology .... welcome to Betamax Britain...
31
02/02/2021 10:55:33 27 0
bbc
The funny thing is, Betamax was a better technology (not as good as Video2000 though), yet still failed in the consumer market.
44
LG
02/02/2021 11:07:36 5 0
bbc
Because JVC made the VHS open source
32
02/02/2021 10:56:45 0 4
bbc
SPOILER ALERT: hybrid and electric cars will it solve the global warming problem.
34
02/02/2021 10:58:22 3 1
bbc
Typo - will NOT solve.....sorry... old Apple device....
37
02/02/2021 10:59:49 0 2
bbc
where do think the majority of the electricity to power bEV/hybrid comes from... ??

It aint wind....
45
02/02/2021 11:07:37 2 0
bbc
REALITY CHECK - no one thing will solve climate change. A lot of things have to change including our sources of power. To imply we don't do any one thing unless we do all things at once is not the answer.
15
02/02/2021 10:39:37 4 2
bbc
Ecowarriors will not be happy until all powered vehicle use is prohibited. Their tactics have changed, at first it was exhaust gasses but EVs do not have any. Then it was brake dust particulates but thanks to regen braking EVs use their brake pads much less than ICE vehicles (5-10x less) so now it is tyre particulates and EVs because they are heavier do produce more.
33
02/02/2021 10:57:23 5 1
bbc
They have caught up in there own web of fear.

Their dogma is so easy to debunk, like you have done.

Eco-alarmists forget all the logistics needed to keep society functioning. Yet to them they will happily destroy society by forbidding transport. Just hope they dont need NHS, food, or couples working 5 miles apart.
32
02/02/2021 10:56:45 0 4
bbc
SPOILER ALERT: hybrid and electric cars will it solve the global warming problem.
34
02/02/2021 10:58:22 3 1
bbc
Typo - will NOT solve.....sorry... old Apple device....
27
02/02/2021 10:50:43 3 1
bbc
Hot swap 250 kg. ie 4x the weight of an adult in the UK.

How? Its a nice idea but the devils in the detail.

Hydrogen solid storage is more realistic as it is more dense than the battery.
35
02/02/2021 10:58:47 1 0
bbc
The technology for hot swapping has already been tried and tested. It is the political will that needs to be tested. If a declaration is made by all nations to take a particular route, then this can be accomplished. But you are asking a lot of politicians!
67
02/02/2021 11:18:21 1 0
bbc
Have you a link? Because if they have solved that issue then it does change the argument
36
02/02/2021 10:59:06 19 2
bbc
Standardisation is the problem, to many different types of connectors, apps etc... Get this sorted then I might consider going electric. Also, with the policy of all electric/hybrid from 2030 how are the people in terraced houses going charge there vehicles?
47
02/02/2021 11:09:10 9 7
bbc
They won't because the plan is for them not to own a car at all.
58
02/02/2021 11:06:04 1 1
bbc
Sounds like mobile phone chargers? I thought the EU was supposed to do something about standardising those, probably still having arguments about it in back offices somewhere. EU - is a snail. Perhaps the UK gov will be able to do something about standardisation.
98
02/02/2021 11:35:03 2 0
bbc
This is who the chargers are for. People with private parking will charge form their house. We already expect cars with 1000 miles range and solar charging, how far do you think people travel in one day?
122
02/02/2021 11:39:03 2 0
bbc
"how are the people in terraced houses going charge there vehicles?"

By putting public chargers where people go every week like supermarkets, Tesco and others are rolling them out.
32
02/02/2021 10:56:45 0 4
bbc
SPOILER ALERT: hybrid and electric cars will it solve the global warming problem.
37
02/02/2021 10:59:49 0 2
bbc
where do think the majority of the electricity to power bEV/hybrid comes from... ??

It aint wind....
134
02/02/2021 11:53:24 0 0
bbc
In Scotland it might be at present, 90-100 % of our electricity comes from renewables. Boris' "Saudi for renewables".

https://www.scottishrenewables.com/our-industry/statistics

Where there's a will......
38
02/02/2021 11:00:43 6 3
bbc
The policy needs to be Highbrid in the short term to allow for the technology to improve. So a two stage approach and keep the public on board.
42
02/02/2021 11:07:20 10 1
bbc
I agree. In fact we've began to do that with our diesel Mondeo. When we go on short journeys, I do the steering and the wife and kids push. Zero emissions and cheaper than gym membership.
14
02/02/2021 10:38:26 12 6
bbc
It's not just the charging points we need. We also need the massive amounts of extra electricity to come out of those charging points (and it needs to be green or whats the point). No way in the world this is going to happen by 2030.
39
02/02/2021 11:02:08 14 8
bbc
Renewables is the answer, well according to the eco-worriers.

Yet we have 24GW of wind farms 11 GW of solar, etc. so more than 35GW of electricity. Yet we are burning Coal & Gas to keep the lights on & heating pumps running.

Greens on purpose forget the issues because it doesnt fit their religion. Add the 14GW needed on average to keep all the EVs running then even bigger issues.
138
02/02/2021 11:52:38 6 0
bbc
The grid is getting cleaner every year.

"Coal generated only 1.6% of the electricity mix in 2020, compared with almost 25% five years ago. "

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero-stories/2020-greenest-year-record-britain
337
02/02/2021 17:27:32 0 0
bbc
If you look at the Gridwatch site you will soon see that the majority of electricity is generated by burning natural gas or biomass.
Both of which are major CO2 emitters. In fact gas-fired generation is only 50% efficient.
Unless there is a massive expansion of hydro; nuclear and tidal generation electric cars will actually make climate change worse, not better.
23
02/02/2021 10:44:22 38 6
bbc
This is a classic case of cart before the horse. Selling electric cars without proper infrastructure in place. How the hell are they going to put chargers outside houses in narrow streets and in urban areas where people end up parking on paths etc.
40
02/02/2021 11:04:07 1 1
bbc
Plus tea leaves for the cables, can see this being big business!
1
02/02/2021 10:24:06 54 11
bbc
Unfortunately I will not be getting an electric car until they reduce the prices, and I also expect the eco warriors to go after the battery manufacturers in the future which will add more costs to new cars.
41
02/02/2021 11:04:37 5 3
bbc
Something tells me the 2030 ban won't happen unless very considerable strides have been taken with respect to both cost and usability. Pricing millions off the roads with all the social and economic consequences that entails will be a pretty big issue at the ballot box.
215
02/02/2021 12:46:56 2 0
bbc
"Pricing millions off the roads with all the social and economic consequences that entails will be a pretty big issue at the ballot box."

===

As will drought, lack of food & fish, climate migration into Europe etc, as atmosphere continues to warm and the oceans and weather patterns change.
38
02/02/2021 11:00:43 6 3
bbc
The policy needs to be Highbrid in the short term to allow for the technology to improve. So a two stage approach and keep the public on board.
42
02/02/2021 11:07:20 10 1
bbc
I agree. In fact we've began to do that with our diesel Mondeo. When we go on short journeys, I do the steering and the wife and kids push. Zero emissions and cheaper than gym membership.
6
02/02/2021 10:32:12 2 7
bbc
It's not what the car manufacturers want to hear but this is the wrong debate!

The debate needs to switch to LESS car ownership with modern tech.

Once people move away from mass/multiple car ownership, brand obsession and back to its core function (mobility) we can have centralised charging, less cars on roads and better mobility options.
43
02/02/2021 11:07:31 0 0
bbc
Ooh spot the Trekkie fan??

" Greta Beam me to the COP26" !!!

Have you actually thought through the issues of removing too many cars?
NHS, trade-people a lone would be massively affected.

More public transport? Thats a false eco-argument! The number of buses that will be needed to be of any use to the majority is astronomical. Or you end up dictating when & how people can go anywhere.
31
02/02/2021 10:55:33 27 0
bbc
The funny thing is, Betamax was a better technology (not as good as Video2000 though), yet still failed in the consumer market.
44
LG
02/02/2021 11:07:36 5 0
bbc
Because JVC made the VHS open source
32
02/02/2021 10:56:45 0 4
bbc
SPOILER ALERT: hybrid and electric cars will it solve the global warming problem.
45
02/02/2021 11:07:37 2 0
bbc
REALITY CHECK - no one thing will solve climate change. A lot of things have to change including our sources of power. To imply we don't do any one thing unless we do all things at once is not the answer.
141
02/02/2021 11:56:14 0 0
bbc
Agreed and if we all used even 10% less then it may reflect as a 10% decrease in Co2 etc, so on and so forth ;-)
10
02/02/2021 10:34:52 9 2
bbc
If we are to stop the sale of new petrol and diesel cars by 2030 then the fact is we have to hurry up with rolling out the infrastructure needed. It’s okay having electric only by then but if people can’t power their cars there’s not much point!

Surely would have been a better idea to get all the infrastructure in place first? Could be very lucrative for British manufacturing.
46
02/02/2021 11:08:08 4 1
bbc
Seem to remember there was a free scheme back in 2013, but Cut the green crap Cameron put an end to that !!!
36
02/02/2021 10:59:06 19 2
bbc
Standardisation is the problem, to many different types of connectors, apps etc... Get this sorted then I might consider going electric. Also, with the policy of all electric/hybrid from 2030 how are the people in terraced houses going charge there vehicles?
47
02/02/2021 11:09:10 9 7
bbc
They won't because the plan is for them not to own a car at all.
168
02/02/2021 12:13:14 0 2
bbc
N Korea, here we come!
48
02/02/2021 11:09:12 3 6
bbc
BBC environmental agenda propaganda.
68
02/02/2021 11:10:58 1 0
bbc
No, just facts, but you Trump supporters don't seem to like facts!
95
02/02/2021 11:33:45 0 0
bbc
If you don't like it, you don't have to read it, but then what would you complain about?

I presume you think climate change is a myth, too...
49
02/02/2021 11:10:39 3 2
bbc
And the charge for the street charger?
Who pays?
The cost for the electricity supplied?
Almost certainly going to be far higher than your domestic tariff, maybe to pay for the charger
Nice little bonus for those a bit better off with a drive who can charge from their home supply at massively reduced prices.

Still think EVs are not the way forward, at best a stop gap
91
02/02/2021 11:32:29 0 0
bbc
Its depends on charging speed, but slow residential public parking chargers should only charge a small premium on your household bill.
142
02/02/2021 11:57:08 0 0
bbc
Some electricity suppliers offer specific tariffs for electric car owners, which reduce the price of power for several hours every night.
50
02/02/2021 11:10:50 4 2
bbc
It is not "Charging points" but FAST charging points that are required - without national rollout of these Electric Vehicles will remain toys and for those wishing to show their environmental credentials (even though most don't understand how "dirty" these vehicles actually are).
81
02/02/2021 11:25:16 3 1
bbc
Fast charging points will only add to the Grid issues & the need to burn even more fossil fuels to balance the demands.

Dinorwig was built to help cope with the 6pm news & kettles being boiled during adverts. With a much smaller population & not everyone had a TV.

Just think of 10,000 of cars fast charging stopping & starting at the same time . Million kettles is small fry in comparison!
89
02/02/2021 11:31:24 1 0
bbc
Actually it slow charging that is needed at residental publc parkers. As battery density improves fast charging will become a thing for people towing only. There is only so far you can drive in one day.
As for Electric vehicles being dirty, that is just oil industry propaganda. Try not to be sucked in.
51
02/02/2021 11:11:00 38 6
bbc
Here we go again! Comments saying until its fully developed etc. Just stop and think about how petrol cars were introduced -was it with a fully built network of petrol stations - no. Yet petrol cars replaced steam ones even though coal was available everywhere - shock news is that infrastructure follows the demand for it.
129
02/02/2021 11:43:12 13 17
bbc
Electric cars have been about since about 1910, but dirty tricks by the oil giants have kept them in check. Even ICE cars were total rubbish until after WW1, when technology raced ahead. BEV technology is racing ahead at the moment, it is why Tesla is worth more than the 3 biggest ICE manufacturers combined. Investors know that BEV is the future, filthy oil is the past.
209
02/02/2021 12:40:28 4 1
bbc
Whilst that is true, "in the old days" people carried a can of petrol with them. While you can carry a spare charging pack for your phone, one for your car would probably need to be towed!
307
02/02/2021 15:03:52 1 1
bbc
Yes, but we didnt introduce millions of cars all at once now did we
317
02/02/2021 16:01:30 1 0
bbc
It wasn't actually steam cars that were replaced by petrol, it was electric! It happened because new oil discoveries made petrol very cheap, but imagine where we would be now with an extra 100 years of battery development if petrol hadn't taken over.
329
02/02/2021 16:38:40 0 1
bbc
Ahh yes but you could care a spare can of fuel ......don't hink you can have a spare battery in the boot yet ??
52
02/02/2021 11:11:15 12 2
bbc
Electric cars and 'smart' motorways, what could go wrong?
85
02/02/2021 11:26:27 0 4
bbc
Designed by Johnson or Johnson ? ;-)
53
02/02/2021 11:11:38 6 7
bbc
Battery cars are NOT the way forward. We've raped the earth for oil and now we're going to do the same for Lithium, dysprosium, nedymium, cobolt etc. These rare earth elements are even scarcer than oil and won't be replaced. Cobalt is already being described as the new "blood diamonds" in southern saharan Africa. We need a sustainable way forward.
72
02/02/2021 11:16:01 0 2
bbc
There is no cobalt in the recent generation of car batteries. And you are deliberately spreading misinformation.
114
02/02/2021 11:40:27 0 0
bbc
Possibly true, but in the absence of any sensible alternatives (and by sensible I do not mean eveyone just going back into the last century and using inconvennient unreliable public transport) most people are going to see the electric vehicle as a slightly better option.

The trouble with pointing out all the downsides is that unless you can come up with an alternative, most of us see no choice...
54
02/02/2021 10:59:17 8 7
bbc
A message to all the industry oil 'lobbyists' on here. Battery vehicles are taking over, whether you like it or not. And Hydrogen, which uses large amounts of fossil fuels to make and emits as much CO2 in the process as ICE cars, are also a total red herring.
78
02/02/2021 11:23:31 5 1
bbc
And just how is electricity produced. How will millions of dead batteries be handled?
107
02/02/2021 11:38:38 1 1
bbc
think you need to look at the efficiency of electric vehicles from production to disposal, there is actually very little difference in overall energy consumption, think you have been eating the red herrings......
111
02/02/2021 11:39:22 0 0
bbc
I'm sure the swap off of fossil fuels (because its cheapest, not easiest) for hydrogen production wouldn't be too major a step if the will was there, and prices would drop as electrolysis and bio production methods increase output.
22
02/02/2021 10:44:07 19 2
bbc
Well if you live in a City urban area then you won't own a car by 2030 of any kind. That's really the plan.
55
02/02/2021 11:01:01 3 0
bbc
Yep. In cities you will just have membership of organisations that allow you to call up a car as and when you need it. No need for car ownership in cities any more.
18
02/02/2021 10:40:40 5 8
bbc
Charging points are no the answer. We need hot-swappable battery stations. Let someone else do the charging. Pick up a charged battery, drive away (for a cost) and save the charging time. Why haven't manufacturers latched on to this. We don't need charging points in our streets!
56
02/02/2021 11:01:49 0 0
bbc
I don't think you have studied or worked in any practical industries have you. This battery swap nonsense was put to bed years ago.
224
02/02/2021 12:51:49 0 0
bbc
Check out the NIO ES8 - see the link below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTsrDpsYHrw
17
02/02/2021 10:40:30 3 2
bbc
Who wants to drive a car that some scumbag has just driven and left in a scummy state.
57
02/02/2021 11:15:34 0 0
bbc
Chauffeur driven versions are currently available, taxis.
36
02/02/2021 10:59:06 19 2
bbc
Standardisation is the problem, to many different types of connectors, apps etc... Get this sorted then I might consider going electric. Also, with the policy of all electric/hybrid from 2030 how are the people in terraced houses going charge there vehicles?
58
02/02/2021 11:06:04 1 1
bbc
Sounds like mobile phone chargers? I thought the EU was supposed to do something about standardising those, probably still having arguments about it in back offices somewhere. EU - is a snail. Perhaps the UK gov will be able to do something about standardisation.
59
02/02/2021 11:16:26 1 0
bbc
Technology is rapidly advancing in this area, so you probably do not want to be an early-mover, as you might just install the wrong infrastructure or buy the wrong car.
76
02/02/2021 11:21:33 2 1
bbc
The technology is indeed moving at pace. A US company has a battery that is close to being fully charged in 10 minutes. Another company is working on super efficient solar panels. Others are looking at replicating photosynthesis to generate power. And a Norwegian company has a new cost effective way to recycle batteries, which in real world usage prove to last longer than forecast anyway.
30
02/02/2021 10:54:09 5 8
bbc
Insufficient power at grid level. Insufficient capacity at grid level.
60
02/02/2021 11:16:32 2 0
bbc
Not according to the National Grid, but I guess you must know more than they do about the national power grid, and generation capacity
92
02/02/2021 11:32:36 0 0
bbc
It's the local distribution network that is the bottleneck, not the National Grid. You can't just divert the MW that a steel plant consumes during the day into a nearby town for EV charging because the transformers and cables in the street aren't sized to handle that amount of power. You also need to consider that extra power isn't required just for EVs. The govt also wants to phase out gas usage
121
02/02/2021 11:44:26 0 0
bbc
the national grid moan every autumn that they are on the edge regarding sufficient power generation, and with the current paralysis regarding the building of new power stations (most of what we have is quite old), can you tell us where all this extra power will come from?
I do not want a nuclear power station in my back yard just to fuel your so called clean vehicle.
254
02/02/2021 13:27:24 0 0
bbc
The guy who installed my 7.5 kw charge point said that I was now close to the max for the house supply about 60 kw. If we didnt have gas heating we would not be able to charge the car and heat the house.
61
02/02/2021 11:17:12 6 4
bbc
It is not only the chargers that are needed. The whole distribution infrastructure needs a major upgrade. We need more generation capacity.
400000 charges will us 3.5 gigawatts of power.
It's not only public chargers but all the home chargers that will be needed and supplied with power. There are 33 million cars in the UK. That could be over 15 million cars charging nightly.
62
02/02/2021 11:17:37 0 3
bbc
Hydrogen power; but in the intermediate battery technology as a kick start.
Ultimately politics will play a bigger part as all countries in the world need to embrace the new way forward to a better future.
63
02/02/2021 11:17:52 3 5
bbc
If we are going electric sensible number of charging points are needed in towns and villages. It will be a massive task as people in cities seem to think its simple but try ask people in the orkneys, Lake District, etc, as we cant be leaving people behind. Hydrogen cars has to be a better step.
198
02/02/2021 12:29:41 0 0
bbc
How easy do you think it is to install Hydrogen fuel stations? The smallest one costs £2M. Residential public chargers cost about £1000 each and use off peak electricity. It makes your electricty cheaper. Hydrogen with its lower efficiency (35%) costs a huge amount more than batteries (90%), its cost 5-15 times more to run Hydrogen than a Battery vehicle.
1
02/02/2021 10:24:06 54 11
bbc
Unfortunately I will not be getting an electric car until they reduce the prices, and I also expect the eco warriors to go after the battery manufacturers in the future which will add more costs to new cars.
64
02/02/2021 11:07:36 5 3
bbc
The motor industry itself says price parity will be reached in about two years time. After that ICE ownership will be taxed heavily too. Whatever you think, you are unlikely to be driving an ICE vehicle in a decades time.
71
02/02/2021 11:20:36 2 2
bbc
Wrong. Many will be happy with their ice vehicle. Lots of use don’t change our cats every year, or even every decade.
7
02/02/2021 10:32:51 62 7
bbc
Can't remember which minister it was being interviewed
When asked about problems of charging points in highly congested/populated areas where people are lucky if they can park 100yds from home, her answer was, we don't know, that's for local councils to figure out
Simple fact, unless you can charge as quickly as you can fuel, our high density urban areas are just not suitable for electric charging
65
02/02/2021 11:08:43 21 49
bbc
A US company has a battery that ids close to being fully charged in 10 minutes. The technology is moving at pace. Stinky ICE cars will soon be museum pieces.
153
02/02/2021 11:57:56 8 17
bbc
Ooh, look at the oh-so-obvious oil industry 'lobbyists' voting me down. The things I write about improving technology are facts, they are freely available on the internet. ICE cars are dinosaurs, looking forward to them being relegated to museums. :-)
164
02/02/2021 12:12:40 8 1
bbc
I don't think you know much about charging, have a look at attached article's chart of charging times as the charging times shorten the kW rating goes up substantially one car requires up to 50kW to charge in 40mins if just this became norm, where is all this GREEN energy to come from apart from electrical infrastructure ??
https://pod-point.com/guides/driver/how-long-to-charge-an-electric-car
173
02/02/2021 12:16:29 12 1
bbc
"Stinky ICE cars will soon be museum pieces."

You keep complaining about people "spreading oil industry disinformation" and referring to "Stinky ICE cars", but you come across as an EV sales rep...

My next car will very likely be an EV, if I can find one that has a reliable 300+ miles range on a cold, wet, winters day, but rabid EV fanboys like you do a good job of putting me off!
218
02/02/2021 12:47:30 8 3
bbc
If you are comfortable with great swathes of china, africa etc being ravaged by mining to feed the battery habit, the health catastrophe that goes with it & think thats got no impact, so be it. On top of that we are becoming over reliant on china for rare metals. This will not end well environmentally, socially, politically or economically.
259
02/02/2021 13:32:13 3 2
bbc
You don't know much do you. It's all about energy and work. You can't plug a car into your domestic supply and charge a battery which will move a vehicle weighing 1 tonne, 150 miles in 10 minutes. It's simply impossible.
23
02/02/2021 10:44:22 38 6
bbc
This is a classic case of cart before the horse. Selling electric cars without proper infrastructure in place. How the hell are they going to put chargers outside houses in narrow streets and in urban areas where people end up parking on paths etc.
66
02/02/2021 11:09:51 3 4
bbc
There is talk of legislation to ban pavement parking. Which I think is a good move, stinky fat revolting cars have no place on the pedestrian pavement.
35
02/02/2021 10:58:47 1 0
bbc
The technology for hot swapping has already been tried and tested. It is the political will that needs to be tested. If a declaration is made by all nations to take a particular route, then this can be accomplished. But you are asking a lot of politicians!
67
02/02/2021 11:18:21 1 0
bbc
Have you a link? Because if they have solved that issue then it does change the argument
110
02/02/2021 11:39:21 1 0
bbc
Battery swap technology does exist - but you're not going to like it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTsrDpsYHrw
48
02/02/2021 11:09:12 3 6
bbc
BBC environmental agenda propaganda.
68
02/02/2021 11:10:58 1 0
bbc
No, just facts, but you Trump supporters don't seem to like facts!
1
02/02/2021 10:24:06 54 11
bbc
Unfortunately I will not be getting an electric car until they reduce the prices, and I also expect the eco warriors to go after the battery manufacturers in the future which will add more costs to new cars.
69
02/02/2021 11:12:02 0 5
bbc
I think you'll be seeing a lot of people buying self charging hybrids for the forseeable future. No need to plug them in.
148
02/02/2021 11:59:59 4 0
bbc
"self-charging hybrids" will also be subject to the 2030 ban, as they run on petrol.
70
PM
02/02/2021 11:20:26 11 1
bbc
Personally I think by 2030 the efficiency of the batteries will make this whole issue less important. I do a 70mile (1/4 range of car) commute everyday and have never worried about range as the car is always charged overnight. The mindset on fueling has got to change as the differnece between ICE and Electric is massive. You only understand the range issue once you drive one
75
02/02/2021 11:22:36 11 1
bbc
Its not efficiency which helps with that its energy density, but the main issue is residential charging for people without private parking. They need public charging.
80
02/02/2021 11:24:28 0 0
bbc
Get an idea of it by only putting 2 gallons of fuel into an IC car every fill-up.
93
02/02/2021 11:32:57 2 1
bbc
That’s ok but if you did a 150 mile trip and return would you be so enthusiastic? That holiday drive to Cornwall needs a bit more planning as well. Battery efficiency is much like nuclear fusion, it is always next decade.
99
02/02/2021 11:35:30 2 1
bbc
so is the price, electric cars are still way out of reach of a lot of drivers.
to those who keep saying prices will reduce as the take up increases, this is nonsense, prices always rise with demand, I have been selling new cars for 30 yrs, still waiting to see a price reduction on a popular model.......
126
02/02/2021 11:49:04 1 1
bbc
What about when everyone has an EV? Western Power Distribution reckons if every consumer had an EV there's enough power for 150 miles of range per week, per property. That would cover 2 of your daily commutes. Where do you charge it for the other 3 days, and for any journeys you make at the weekend? Or other EVs at the same address?
190
02/02/2021 12:25:51 0 0
bbc
Yes exactly, but its not the efficiency, its the energy density. Batteries are already 90% efficient in energy loses terms. You get back most of what you put in.
As range increases fast charging will be used by less people, maybe more commercial long distance deliveries.
308
02/02/2021 15:06:09 0 1
bbc
But you are lucky enough to be able to charge your car overnight. Huge numbers of people dont have drives or garages, or live in flats with no parking place, and so have no ability to charge their electric cars overnight.
64
02/02/2021 11:07:36 5 3
bbc
The motor industry itself says price parity will be reached in about two years time. After that ICE ownership will be taxed heavily too. Whatever you think, you are unlikely to be driving an ICE vehicle in a decades time.
71
02/02/2021 11:20:36 2 2
bbc
Wrong. Many will be happy with their ice vehicle. Lots of use don’t change our cats every year, or even every decade.
83
02/02/2021 11:23:35 10 0
bbc
The average lifespan of a domestic cat is 15 years, so not surprised that you don;t change your cat every decade!
53
02/02/2021 11:11:38 6 7
bbc
Battery cars are NOT the way forward. We've raped the earth for oil and now we're going to do the same for Lithium, dysprosium, nedymium, cobolt etc. These rare earth elements are even scarcer than oil and won't be replaced. Cobalt is already being described as the new "blood diamonds" in southern saharan Africa. We need a sustainable way forward.
72
02/02/2021 11:16:01 0 2
bbc
There is no cobalt in the recent generation of car batteries. And you are deliberately spreading misinformation.
88
02/02/2021 11:30:05 2 0
bbc
Just got my son to check the Tesla handbook. Battery metals include...cobalt. I hope they haven’t given me an old generation battery.
256
02/02/2021 13:28:29 0 0
bbc
The cobalt is in the motors...
29
02/02/2021 10:52:07 34 21
bbc
Its still the wrong technology .... welcome to Betamax Britain...
73
02/02/2021 11:16:13 5 0
bbc
Please enlighten us on what is the right technology.
24
02/02/2021 10:48:17 22 12
bbc
The cost of public charge point is around £20K. This is on top of the Public charge points are going to be on the business electric tariffs which are at least 3x more expensive than the domestic tariffs.

So yes EV charging is **not** cheap.
Shoves the pollution to somewhere else

Not exactly green

https://www.current-news.co.uk/news/cornwall-to-rollout-150-new-ev-chargers-with-2-9m-funding
74
02/02/2021 11:18:37 11 15
bbc
One of the big energy companies has just announced that it is introducing an economy rate for electric vehicle charging. Stop spreading oil industry disinformation.
124
02/02/2021 11:47:08 5 2
bbc
normal business model then, suck in your customers, build up demand, and then whack them with high charges once they are in the net.
what makes you think power generators have different morals to oil companies, this is a very naive idea.
195
02/02/2021 12:28:51 2 2
bbc
I have never had links or clients to the Oil industry. So you are the one spreading the misinformation.

Or do you believe that the public charge points dont cost money?
Domestic electric tariffs are also different to business tariffs. So the **public** accessible chargers will be charged on business tariffs.

Yet again you conflate & spin a web of misinformation to push your dogma.
244
02/02/2021 13:16:33 2 2
bbc
The disinformation is not oil industry disinformation. The oil industry is confident of surviving, and of surviving longer with a reduced demand for an increasingly scarce and expensive product. The disinformation comes from people who believe that reducing urban air pollution and our reliance upon imported energy are both "lefty nonsense."
70
PM
02/02/2021 11:20:26 11 1
bbc
Personally I think by 2030 the efficiency of the batteries will make this whole issue less important. I do a 70mile (1/4 range of car) commute everyday and have never worried about range as the car is always charged overnight. The mindset on fueling has got to change as the differnece between ICE and Electric is massive. You only understand the range issue once you drive one
75
02/02/2021 11:22:36 11 1
bbc
Its not efficiency which helps with that its energy density, but the main issue is residential charging for people without private parking. They need public charging.
118
PM
02/02/2021 11:43:06 1 0
bbc
Maybe the future will have induction charging in residential areas, thus avaoiding all need for cables.
59
02/02/2021 11:16:26 1 0
bbc
Technology is rapidly advancing in this area, so you probably do not want to be an early-mover, as you might just install the wrong infrastructure or buy the wrong car.
76
02/02/2021 11:21:33 2 1
bbc
The technology is indeed moving at pace. A US company has a battery that is close to being fully charged in 10 minutes. Another company is working on super efficient solar panels. Others are looking at replicating photosynthesis to generate power. And a Norwegian company has a new cost effective way to recycle batteries, which in real world usage prove to last longer than forecast anyway.
24
02/02/2021 10:48:17 22 12
bbc
The cost of public charge point is around £20K. This is on top of the Public charge points are going to be on the business electric tariffs which are at least 3x more expensive than the domestic tariffs.

So yes EV charging is **not** cheap.
Shoves the pollution to somewhere else

Not exactly green

https://www.current-news.co.uk/news/cornwall-to-rollout-150-new-ev-chargers-with-2-9m-funding
77
02/02/2021 11:22:10 4 1
bbc
"Shoves the pollution to somewhere else"

The grid is getting cleaner all the time, see below.

"Coal generated only 1.6% of the electricity mix in 2020, compared with almost 25% five years ago."

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero-stories/2020-greenest-year-record-britain
203
02/02/2021 12:35:38 0 1
bbc
Yes the grid is getting cleaner.

But as we have 35+ GW of installed capacity of renewables today it is struggling to provide 14GW. 18 GW is being generated by carbon based fuel so **not** clean.

You also need to look at what happens when there is too much wind. aka Constraint Payments.

Renewables is a ponzi scheme. Society needs reliable energy !
54
02/02/2021 10:59:17 8 7
bbc
A message to all the industry oil 'lobbyists' on here. Battery vehicles are taking over, whether you like it or not. And Hydrogen, which uses large amounts of fossil fuels to make and emits as much CO2 in the process as ICE cars, are also a total red herring.
78
02/02/2021 11:23:31 5 1
bbc
And just how is electricity produced. How will millions of dead batteries be handled?
112
02/02/2021 11:40:14 1 0
bbc
Currently EV batteries no longer suitable to deliver the power needed by cars are used for energy storage applications.
128
02/02/2021 11:50:55 0 1
bbc
There is solid evidence of EV batteries doing over 100,000 miles. And even after that they drop to 60-70% efficient and can be repurposed into domestic batteries. EV's have been around for a decade or so now - if this was an issue it would have shown up by now
131
02/02/2021 11:48:03 2 1
bbc
A Norwegian firm has a new efficient way to recycle batteries anyway. which will last 10-20 years in a car, then another 30 as electricity stores. There are scientists who solve these issues, and 8investment is moving away from filthy oil into BEVs ad renewable energy.
24
02/02/2021 10:48:17 22 12
bbc
The cost of public charge point is around £20K. This is on top of the Public charge points are going to be on the business electric tariffs which are at least 3x more expensive than the domestic tariffs.

So yes EV charging is **not** cheap.
Shoves the pollution to somewhere else

Not exactly green

https://www.current-news.co.uk/news/cornwall-to-rollout-150-new-ev-chargers-with-2-9m-funding
79
02/02/2021 11:23:44 3 1
bbc
And your solution is ...... ?

Ah yes, we don't need to do anything at all, because everything is absolutely fine.
205
02/02/2021 12:36:31 0 1
bbc
Didnt say that. You might want to check what a Strawman Argument is.
70
PM
02/02/2021 11:20:26 11 1
bbc
Personally I think by 2030 the efficiency of the batteries will make this whole issue less important. I do a 70mile (1/4 range of car) commute everyday and have never worried about range as the car is always charged overnight. The mindset on fueling has got to change as the differnece between ICE and Electric is massive. You only understand the range issue once you drive one
80
02/02/2021 11:24:28 0 0
bbc
Get an idea of it by only putting 2 gallons of fuel into an IC car every fill-up.
108
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02/02/2021 11:38:45 1 0
bbc
As I said, you've got to change your way of thinking how you fuel your vehicle
248
02/02/2021 13:21:54 1 0
bbc
No, that is not the same. Get an idea of it by having someone else put the ten litres in whilst you are asleep or whilst your car is in the car park where you work. Never have to go to the filling station on your way to somewhere else again.
50
02/02/2021 11:10:50 4 2
bbc
It is not "Charging points" but FAST charging points that are required - without national rollout of these Electric Vehicles will remain toys and for those wishing to show their environmental credentials (even though most don't understand how "dirty" these vehicles actually are).
81
02/02/2021 11:25:16 3 1
bbc
Fast charging points will only add to the Grid issues & the need to burn even more fossil fuels to balance the demands.

Dinorwig was built to help cope with the 6pm news & kettles being boiled during adverts. With a much smaller population & not everyone had a TV.

Just think of 10,000 of cars fast charging stopping & starting at the same time . Million kettles is small fry in comparison!
82
02/02/2021 11:25:40 3 1
bbc
I've looked at SMMT data and market share in 2020 of battery and plug-in hybrids was 10.7%, not 17%. Many of those plug-in hybrids were bought for the tax breaks and will never be charged from the mains.
272
02/02/2021 13:51:43 0 0
bbc
My in laws did that.
Now sold cars off cheap as write off against their tax.
Bonus is less well off get a cheap electric car with low running costs
71
02/02/2021 11:20:36 2 2
bbc
Wrong. Many will be happy with their ice vehicle. Lots of use don’t change our cats every year, or even every decade.
83
02/02/2021 11:23:35 10 0
bbc
The average lifespan of a domestic cat is 15 years, so not surprised that you don;t change your cat every decade!
84
02/02/2021 11:26:14 0 2
bbc
A well thought out network of subsidised electric public transport, (including HS2) which could also be used by cyclists to transport their bikes could save a lot of trouble.
185
02/02/2021 12:22:44 0 0
bbc
Why do people need to travel to London to goto an office, email and phone people all day when they could do that at home? Why not arrange a temporary office near where people live for meetings and brain storming?
52
02/02/2021 11:11:15 12 2
bbc
Electric cars and 'smart' motorways, what could go wrong?
85
02/02/2021 11:26:27 0 4
bbc
Designed by Johnson or Johnson ? ;-)
86
02/02/2021 11:28:25 1 1
bbc
General public charge points will be needed less as battery energy density improves and range increases. The problem currently is that the 10M (not 400,000) people who own cars but do not own private parking have nowhere to charge overnight. It is important that these people are provided with public chargers on their street. Councils need a policy on how to deal with this over the next 20yrs.
94
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02/02/2021 11:33:12 0 2
bbc
I agree, I see the possibility of induction charging on the horizon which would sort charging in residential areas. After all nobody would think they'd charge their phones without a wire 10 years ago.
87
02/02/2021 11:29:21 15 2
bbc
Not a good start when there are already different connectors, myriad different suppliers therefore requiring multiple registrations and payments, multiple charging speeds. All this should be standard stuff. The roll out needs regulating to ensure it is as simple to understand and use as possible. If it is left to develop as it is the punter will be the loser again.
72
02/02/2021 11:16:01 0 2
bbc
There is no cobalt in the recent generation of car batteries. And you are deliberately spreading misinformation.
88
02/02/2021 11:30:05 2 0
bbc
Just got my son to check the Tesla handbook. Battery metals include...cobalt. I hope they haven’t given me an old generation battery.
50
02/02/2021 11:10:50 4 2
bbc
It is not "Charging points" but FAST charging points that are required - without national rollout of these Electric Vehicles will remain toys and for those wishing to show their environmental credentials (even though most don't understand how "dirty" these vehicles actually are).
89
02/02/2021 11:31:24 1 0
bbc
Actually it slow charging that is needed at residental publc parkers. As battery density improves fast charging will become a thing for people towing only. There is only so far you can drive in one day.
As for Electric vehicles being dirty, that is just oil industry propaganda. Try not to be sucked in.
90
02/02/2021 11:31:41 2 1
bbc
Just John
11:17
There are 33 million cars in the UK. That could be over 15 million cars charging nightly.
//
True, but as the average car only travels about 25 miles /day (about 10% of a full charge) then they won't be charging for long each night.

It's not about the number of cars but more about the total consumption. You don't fill an ICE car with petrol every day.
113
02/02/2021 11:40:14 0 2
bbc
Western Power Distribution reckoned if every consumer had an EV there would be enough power for them to drive 150 miles per week. There's the solution. Ration EV owners to 45kWh of power per property, per week, and limit range to 200 miles. What's the point of making EVs with a longer range than you need?
49
02/02/2021 11:10:39 3 2
bbc
And the charge for the street charger?
Who pays?
The cost for the electricity supplied?
Almost certainly going to be far higher than your domestic tariff, maybe to pay for the charger
Nice little bonus for those a bit better off with a drive who can charge from their home supply at massively reduced prices.

Still think EVs are not the way forward, at best a stop gap
91
02/02/2021 11:32:29 0 0
bbc
Its depends on charging speed, but slow residential public parking chargers should only charge a small premium on your household bill.
60
02/02/2021 11:16:32 2 0
bbc
Not according to the National Grid, but I guess you must know more than they do about the national power grid, and generation capacity
92
02/02/2021 11:32:36 0 0
bbc
It's the local distribution network that is the bottleneck, not the National Grid. You can't just divert the MW that a steel plant consumes during the day into a nearby town for EV charging because the transformers and cables in the street aren't sized to handle that amount of power. You also need to consider that extra power isn't required just for EVs. The govt also wants to phase out gas usage
70
PM
02/02/2021 11:20:26 11 1
bbc
Personally I think by 2030 the efficiency of the batteries will make this whole issue less important. I do a 70mile (1/4 range of car) commute everyday and have never worried about range as the car is always charged overnight. The mindset on fueling has got to change as the differnece between ICE and Electric is massive. You only understand the range issue once you drive one
93
02/02/2021 11:32:57 2 1
bbc
That’s ok but if you did a 150 mile trip and return would you be so enthusiastic? That holiday drive to Cornwall needs a bit more planning as well. Battery efficiency is much like nuclear fusion, it is always next decade.
101
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02/02/2021 11:36:54 1 0
bbc
Yes, sure I've done longer trips (with enthuiasm) and yes you need to plan but its not that bad. I live in a semi-rural area of Wales, which isn't brimming with options for charging. You need to visualise where we're going :-)
119
02/02/2021 11:43:40 1 2
bbc
just buy an EV with a 200 mile range? 5 min fast recharge batteries are now coming through to production so its short term issue anyway
86
02/02/2021 11:28:25 1 1
bbc
General public charge points will be needed less as battery energy density improves and range increases. The problem currently is that the 10M (not 400,000) people who own cars but do not own private parking have nowhere to charge overnight. It is important that these people are provided with public chargers on their street. Councils need a policy on how to deal with this over the next 20yrs.
94
PM
02/02/2021 11:33:12 0 2
bbc
I agree, I see the possibility of induction charging on the horizon which would sort charging in residential areas. After all nobody would think they'd charge their phones without a wire 10 years ago.
48
02/02/2021 11:09:12 3 6
bbc
BBC environmental agenda propaganda.
95
02/02/2021 11:33:45 0 0
bbc
If you don't like it, you don't have to read it, but then what would you complain about?

I presume you think climate change is a myth, too...
96
02/02/2021 11:34:06 6 1
bbc
Until we have better ways of charging electric cars they will be restricted to people who have the physical space to charge them.
97
02/02/2021 11:34:25 11 1
bbc
I'd like to go electric but I live on a private housing estate. As we all have to park several hundred yards from our homes in communal areas there is just no way currently to charge a car overnight, which makes it impractical to use any of the cheaper low range runabouts. Introducing a planning requirement for all housing areas to install some chargers would help a lot of us to make the switch.
103
02/02/2021 11:37:26 9 1
bbc
It’s a similar problem for people who live in older homes. Terraced houses predate the car.
104
02/02/2021 11:37:29 2 2
bbc
I currently have a diesel car and the nearest garage is five miles away; no private filling station in my drive.

A little planning and improved charging times and range is all it will take.
36
02/02/2021 10:59:06 19 2
bbc
Standardisation is the problem, to many different types of connectors, apps etc... Get this sorted then I might consider going electric. Also, with the policy of all electric/hybrid from 2030 how are the people in terraced houses going charge there vehicles?
98
02/02/2021 11:35:03 2 0
bbc
This is who the chargers are for. People with private parking will charge form their house. We already expect cars with 1000 miles range and solar charging, how far do you think people travel in one day?
302
02/02/2021 15:00:03 0 1
bbc
Making stuff up, are we?

But until this bleeping virus, i regularly did 250-300 miles in a day, visiting SWMBO's sister.

There is, and will be, no option to charge at the far end, and the idea is to spend as much time as possible at the in-laws, not charging on journeys.

So, if I could get an EV with a genuine 350 mile range - in winter - I'd consider one as my next car.
70
PM
02/02/2021 11:20:26 11 1
bbc
Personally I think by 2030 the efficiency of the batteries will make this whole issue less important. I do a 70mile (1/4 range of car) commute everyday and have never worried about range as the car is always charged overnight. The mindset on fueling has got to change as the differnece between ICE and Electric is massive. You only understand the range issue once you drive one
99
02/02/2021 11:35:30 2 1
bbc
so is the price, electric cars are still way out of reach of a lot of drivers.
to those who keep saying prices will reduce as the take up increases, this is nonsense, prices always rise with demand, I have been selling new cars for 30 yrs, still waiting to see a price reduction on a popular model.......
123
PM
02/02/2021 11:45:50 1 0
bbc
I agree that the price is out of reach for a lot of people at the moment, but the prices have dropped considerably in the past five years and cars with a tidy range were 30k plus are now sub 30K indicating that the technology is starting to catch up with demand
29
02/02/2021 10:52:07 34 21
bbc
Its still the wrong technology .... welcome to Betamax Britain...
100
02/02/2021 11:36:32 4 6
bbc
Quite, it's going to cost billions to upgrade the National Grid to be able to cope and that's before we even add any extra generating capacity cost. The cost of smart meters is going to be £14bn and rising, that will look like chump change compared to what is to come.
120
02/02/2021 11:44:24 10 2
bbc
Utter rubbish, check the National Grid website, they have confirmed to gov't officially that the grid will be fine with the existing policies and incentives.
What has smart meters gto to do with it? You don't need one for an EV, but they provide benefits such as dynamic pricing so you can save money.