Prosperity comes at 'devastating' cost to nature
02/02/2021 | news | science | 855
Landmark review calls for fundamental change in our approach to economics to stem nature loss.
1
02/02/2021 12:53:02 120 18
bbc
Climate Change is never mentioned in December. That is because we buy a load of rubbish we don't need, including paper and card. Then in the New Year we send it off to another country and tell everyone we got emissions down. Food Corporations and financial institutions have far too much power. They want everyone in a circle of debt, including electric cars, change of diet, purely for profit.
130
02/02/2021 13:29:10 28 8
bbc
Developed world hypocrisy
196
02/02/2021 13:45:32 2 0
bbc
Financials institutions want everyone driving electric cars?
276
02/02/2021 14:17:29 0 0
bbc
You don't have to buy into it.
Removed
390
02/02/2021 14:52:57 0 6
bbc
So how are you going to pay your share of the 14 trillion pound socialist welfare state's pension debts? You owe £550,000 and next years increase is £50K. If you evade your taxes on that, the elderly die.

Not that the BBC will tell you. That would be being honest.
699
03/02/2021 00:38:11 2 0
bbc
The whole Christmas thing, and Halloween Easter, Mothers day, Valentine's day things are driven by major Corporations using emotional blackmail in order sell is more of the world resources and we foolishly fall for it like suckers.
736
03/02/2021 08:24:44 0 0
bbc
People who talk sitting in the universities don't convince people who should act, and people who should act are more worried about themselves and public who should get rightly acting people rarely get the right ones into the seat. All a vicious cycle. Everybody's responsibility. Will everyone understand it??????
822
03/02/2021 11:46:46 0 0
bbc
Utter rubbish...paper and card are renewable resources. Unlike many of the so called solutions of the climate hysteria crew.
840
03/02/2021 15:35:55 0 0
bbc
Electric cars are cheaper overall as they have lower running costs and vegetables are much cheaper than meat.
2
02/02/2021 12:55:05 242 24
bbc
Perpetual economic growth both drives and is driven by population growth (and resultant consumption increase): if we want to limit the latter we must stop the former, and as highlighted in this report, stop using GDP to dictate our economic policy, given all world Governments seem to want to do is boost it, despite infinite growth being impossible on a finite planet.
32
02/02/2021 13:09:17 101 11
bbc
It is about greed, and there is no accountability in this world corporatocracy. Bhutan has Gross Domestic Happiness as the key to their government policy, it is a beautiful country which limits tourism by law and by a very expensive price per day - but it works for them. I am sure tourist traps like Spain would like to emulate this on a larger scale.
43
02/02/2021 13:12:26 9 11
bbc
Global population growth is primarily due to people living longer, more old people. How do you want to stop people living longer?
109
02/02/2021 13:24:59 29 1
bbc
The problem is that most world governments may pretend that they are thinking long-term, but in reality they are only concerned about being re-elected next time.

So they won't make any tough decisions, however necessary, that my jeopardise their re-election prospects.
124
02/02/2021 13:28:09 21 2
bbc
The mega-billionaires and global corporations would never agree, they have the politicians in their back pockets. Lots of talk and signing protocols about all these issues but in reality little really done, and that which is implemented comes with big profits to the same people. Massive con trick, they even own the media to peddle their non existent credentials.
142
02/02/2021 13:31:45 9 2
bbc
GDP does not equal material consumption

Why, oh why, oh why, to people keep persisting promoting the false correlation between GDP (economic activity, etc) and material consumption?

It doesn't take much thought to see how flawed an assumption of a correlation is.

Nor does GDP drive population growth - science informs us it's the oppposite - richer nations (higher GDP) have lower birth rates.
204
02/02/2021 13:49:50 19 3
bbc
Nonsense. Nobody WANTS palm oil; if the supply of beef was halved then people would eat something else; if the gov't actually invested properly in public solar energy or electric cars instead of cutting and abandoning initiatives, people would jump at the schemes.

The problems lie in corporate greed, lobbying, and a lack of accountability for corporations.
295
02/02/2021 14:25:11 7 0
bbc
certain populations, even while shrinking are nevertheless consuming resources at a rate far above others. Esp. USA/UK/Australia. Look at per capita rates of consumption/emissions. It is not the dirt poor developing world populations you have in mind that cause the issue.
501
02/02/2021 15:50:15 1 2
bbc
Cancel the vaccines and the ecosystem will look after itself.
532
P2
02/02/2021 16:13:15 1 0
bbc
Absolutely bang on. People always say population is the cause and I have some sympathy with that view but the drive for growth ultimately needs more consumption by more consumers and therefore needs population growth to sustain it. A new way of valuing what is important is overdue I think.
783
03/02/2021 09:49:07 0 0
bbc
Incorrect. Economic growth is driven by profit making. According to the UN, there is already enough food for everybody. But capitalist not produces more than what we need but also wastes a lot of what is produced through different ways. Consumption? You mean in the north. Half of the world population are under consuming what they need. 92% of CO2 emission has been caused by the global north.
841
03/02/2021 15:44:18 0 0
bbc
I disagree that economic growth drives population growth. In most developed economies, population is stable or has been declining... certainly due to birth rate. Birth rate is higher in developing countries, and often people migrate from there looking for better opportunities. If those countries' economies developed, then their population and emigration would decline. Consumption might not.
3
FF
02/02/2021 12:55:29 45 17
bbc
I’d like to share a revelation that I’ve had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you’re not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not.
17
02/02/2021 13:01:54 19 10
bbc
Perhaps we just haven't reached our equilibrium yet - of course the "equilibrium" could be a desolate planet with no humans...

But in fact your observation is incorrect. Mammals - along with all other life on the planet - exist in complex ecosystems, which may equilibriate for long periods, but will now and then destabilise and move to new equilibria.
209
02/02/2021 13:53:02 0 3
bbc
Not true. For example look at the impacts of wild deer population on forestry. In many areas deer have changed the composition and structure of forest and woodland around the world by preferentially feeding on select plant species. If we do adopt a major tree planting exercise in the UK every new tree will need a "sleeve" to protect it from a rapidly expanding deer population.
284
PD
02/02/2021 14:21:34 4 0
bbc
Smith was right...
394
02/02/2021 14:54:10 0 2
bbc
I sympathise with your sentiment, but biologically, you are wrong

Consider the Norwegian lemming

They eat and breed without looking ahead or noticing their population exploding. Then one day the food runs out and they start running. No lemming elects to jump off cliffs but they often do because hunger and stress lead to bad and then worse decisions and they follow the one in front

Just like us
603
02/02/2021 18:14:55 0 0
bbc
Equilibrium will be like the trees on Easter Island but on a global scale.
The likelihood is that we will destroy pretty much everything in the name of "progress", at which point the realisation will dawn that we have used everything up. COVID should be the big wake up call but it will be quickly forgotten as consumerism takes hold again. It is just too inconvenient for many.
Removed
5
FF
02/02/2021 12:55:50 45 15
bbc
2/2 You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You’re a plague
9
02/02/2021 12:58:46 28 1
bbc
And we, Mr. Anderson, are the cure.
37
02/02/2021 13:11:17 0 1
bbc
No animal or plant for that matter cares much about competing species. It is part of nature kill or be killed.
93
02/02/2021 13:22:59 1 1
bbc
and what pray tell are you then?
6
02/02/2021 12:56:06 165 16
bbc
With too many people and limited resources, this situation will get worse until the population begins to fall and the "throw away society" ends.
53
02/02/2021 13:16:17 43 92
bbc
Common myth. The world population is levelling off at a sustainable level, it just needs us to adopt a higher standard of living so as to be sustainable.

This is our real chance to level up.
266
02/02/2021 14:14:11 5 11
bbc
Can't tell where the corporate shills end and the boomers begin!

OVERPOPULATION WHY IS NOONE TALKING ABOUT OVERPOPULATION

Because it's a distraction. That's why.

https://theconversation.com/why-we-should-be-wary-of-blaming-overpopulation-for-the-climate-crisis-130709

https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/12/12/16766872/overpopulation-exaggerated-concern-climate-change-world-population
314
02/02/2021 14:30:07 8 0
bbc
Unlikely to change - look at our own PM. 6 kids already (that we know of). You think people like him or Rhys Mogg are going to start banging that drum?
557
02/02/2021 16:36:24 1 0
bbc
The reason we have "too many people" is of course vastly increased longevity and reduced child mortality, due to improving medical standards. Mainly the former.
So what would you suggest?

"A new complex modelling study forecasts steep declines in total fertility rate by the end of this century, with most of 195 countries analysed unable to maintain their population levels."
625
02/02/2021 18:57:44 1 0
bbc
Dare I mention religion? God and procreation? We do need a few religious leaders to give some planet responsible leadership rather than out of date dogma.
7
ljs
02/02/2021 12:56:17 120 27
bbc
The problem AS ALWAYS is TOO MANY People.

The human population has trebled in my lifetime and I have not even retired yet !!!!!

ONE BILLION, NOT TEN should be our aim.
10
02/02/2021 12:59:24 41 14
bbc
What's your time frame, and how do you propose to meet the aim?
16
02/02/2021 13:01:40 23 4
bbc
Absolutely, unfortunately capitalism requires continuous growth, which is of course, impossible. At some point we need to accept that it's destined to fail but unfortunately humans just don't seem to be able to devise a different model. I wonder which will fail first, humanity or the planet?
33
02/02/2021 13:09:42 11 10
bbc
Let's just hope the corona virus keep's creating new variant's and becomes immune to new vaccines because most of the damage done to nature is coming from developing worlds needing more and more space as their population continues to grow.

Whilst the developing world stops destroying nature the developed world should reduce our carbon footprint.
36
02/02/2021 13:10:55 26 5
bbc
The US with 328m people has 5% of world population but consumes 24% of its resources

Let's pretend even they go 'green' and consume 20% (a 17% drop). That maths suggests maximum developed population of 1.6bn ....but even that strips the planet

The biggest issue Earth faces isn't climate change - Earth survives warmer and colder periods - but human overpopulation and annihilation of ecosystems
.
137
02/02/2021 13:30:39 1 1
bbc
Hopefully you’re not behind all the growth..............
163
02/02/2021 13:37:01 3 4
bbc
As mentioned above, you need to read the book called "Factfulness" by Rosling. The rate of population growth is leveling off, due to impressive gains made in eradicating poverty (even though people, without the facts, hold strongly to the belief it's getting worse). The more you provide good education, health services, food etc. the more families unconsciously decide to have fewer children.
178
02/02/2021 13:41:38 1 3
bbc
Whilst people in the "ONE BILLION" could see this as a valid direction the rest of the "TEN" are unlikely to agree.
197
02/02/2021 13:46:13 2 2
bbc
How do you propose to keep the population down? Any solutions up your sleeve ? Perhaps that solution would be final?
200
02/02/2021 13:47:35 3 4
bbc
Don't talk daft! The last time world population was 1 billion was around 1800!
258
02/02/2021 14:12:22 0 0
bbc
- and presumably, you want to be one of the billion - at least to enjoy your retirement...
311
LL
02/02/2021 14:28:44 2 1
bbc
Mother Nature trying to rectify this with Corna ! But we are creatures of caring for ourselves as humans more than our environment so all the focus is on OUR 'human' survival, what we miss is the environment/planet is our home and all creatures have equal rights to this home!
330
02/02/2021 14:33:53 2 1
bbc
So, what, let covid run rampant? Stop treating people for diseases? Lock people up for being pregnant? Forced abortions?

What's your solution and how will you get our PM (with his 6 kids that we know of) to agree to and enforce it?
391
02/02/2021 14:53:21 0 0
bbc
You could always make the first step
474
02/02/2021 15:33:47 1 0
bbc
How about a lottery? 1 billion tickets marked "A" the rest can be marked "B". Anyone who gets a "B" gets shot...?
No...?
Are there too many people? I honestly don't know. Are we consuming too many resources? Yes. Reduce what people consume first and then we can look at a sustainable population cull, which I guess is kind of what you're suggesting...?
561
02/02/2021 16:41:25 0 0
bbc
"The world is ill-prepared for the global crash in children being born which is set to have a "jaw-dropping" impact on societies, say researchers."
This just leaves us the problem of increasing longevity
So what shall we do about that?
A discussion about assisted dying perhaps?
845
03/02/2021 17:15:31 0 0
bbc
You must love covid-19 then as it is doing it's best to get the population down all on it's own.
8
02/02/2021 12:57:55 67 6
bbc
It has long been a fanciful hope of mine that economists, ecologists and governments will one day work together to tackle this prickly issue. The sooner the better please.
136
02/02/2021 13:30:38 46 4
bbc
In the meantime there is a lot that we can do. We can simplify our lifestyles and stop consuming so much. As the saying goes, there can be Joy in Enough.

See:

https://joyinenough.org/
.
5
FF
02/02/2021 12:55:50 45 15
bbc
2/2 You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You’re a plague
9
02/02/2021 12:58:46 28 1
bbc
And we, Mr. Anderson, are the cure.
246
FF
02/02/2021 14:05:54 0 2
bbc
Well played Sir :)
7
ljs
02/02/2021 12:56:17 120 27
bbc
The problem AS ALWAYS is TOO MANY People.

The human population has trebled in my lifetime and I have not even retired yet !!!!!

ONE BILLION, NOT TEN should be our aim.
10
02/02/2021 12:59:24 41 14
bbc
What's your time frame, and how do you propose to meet the aim?
23
ljs
02/02/2021 13:05:55 23 24
bbc
We could start with

(a) All men to have a vasectomy by the time they are 45 years old, I did at 42.

(b) An injectable contraceptive which last 12 years, given to all girls at age 12,
so they get a decent education, first.
28
02/02/2021 13:08:02 17 7
bbc
1 child per couple would do it, although not quickly. It's a fair way but would require people in developed countries to accept that they cannot keep increasing their standard of living at expense of others. People in poorer areas try to deal with this by emigrating to richer, which causes more problems.
66
02/02/2021 13:18:19 14 7
bbc
My name is Mother Nature and I intend to do it with coronaviruses.
69
02/02/2021 13:01:36 8 9
bbc
He doesn't know how to achieve his goal. It's just an inane catchphrase.
97
sw
02/02/2021 13:23:57 1 2
bbc
Check out ljs
328
02/02/2021 14:33:28 4 1
bbc
Answer: First announce the goal, to make it explicit. Then stop subsidised breeding (child allowance) immediately. Then sustained public awareness campaign to make over-replacement (more than 2 kids) visible as the antisocial behaviour it is

Like public views on smoking, momentum will develop gradually.
Timescale: quicker than anything you're proposing: likely a century.
Grandkids proud of you
408
02/02/2021 14:57:44 1 0
bbc
Global deadly pandemic?
585
02/02/2021 17:44:17 0 1
bbc
Three grenerations of 1 child per family would do the trick.
806
03/02/2021 10:28:47 0 0
bbc
Do nothing, and you will find out.

In the UK alone, the population has increased in my lifetime from about 50-million to about 65-million, that's 30%. That's a lot of people on a small island.
855
03/02/2021 22:52:50 0 0
bbc
Do like China did but have a 1 child limit globally for couples.
11
sw
02/02/2021 12:59:58 43 21
bbc
Too many people. 1 child per couple, should be the norm. The problem is making that happen.
74
02/02/2021 13:19:45 10 22
bbc
Yeah, let’s revert back to the Chinese policy of the eighties ?

??
Castration might work. Removed
175
02/02/2021 13:40:28 6 5
bbc
Two per couple should be the max. That way the population will fall, as some don’t want to / can’t breed.

Goverment should only give help to two children in any family in the future.
205
02/02/2021 13:50:16 9 3
bbc
total cack. More like too many people using too much of earths resources. We don't need massive houses, millions of cloths, lots of plastic crap and the amount of food waste is crazy. Having too much is glamourised and becomes an aspiration for too many
238
02/02/2021 14:03:42 2 4
bbc
Perhaps we should cut back on medical research too, so that people die younger. No? Thought not.
410
Ian
02/02/2021 14:58:44 4 1
bbc
Stop benefits after 1 child. Why should the taxpayer pay to over-populate the country.
543
02/02/2021 16:22:35 1 1
bbc
Fighting poverty and raising the living standards of the poor will incentivise them to have smaller families...in the main. Bear in mind too many affluent families are having too many kids also. Too many benefits going to them instead of those who NEED them.

UK corrupt.
12
02/02/2021 13:00:55 50 12
bbc
One suspects that for most polluters, just as for Trump, it's a matter of sovereignty, not economics.

A small, local example: it would cost my fellow directors of our property management company just 30p each to offset the 2020 emissions for our courtyard lighting. All but one refused.
92
02/02/2021 13:22:41 11 4
bbc
Good work.
All little efforts collectively add up!
248
02/02/2021 14:06:05 5 0
bbc
Is that lighting necessary? Is it just left on? Lighting is increasingly recognised as damaging, need to turn more off, not "offset emissions". Offset may work for climate change but is no help to wildlife.
396
02/02/2021 14:55:10 1 4
bbc
Ah the green extortion and black mail is working

What's needed is a Luther to deal with this payment of green indulgences.
13
02/02/2021 13:01:23 11 10
bbc
This Prof Dasgupta is an absolute genius. How did no one put the pieces together before?

Strange though. All I see is an opinion piece about opinions and absolutely no science at all.
22
02/02/2021 13:05:46 16 1
bbc
That's because you presumably haven't read the report. Find it here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/final-report-the-economics-of-biodiversity-the-dasgupta-review

... all 606 pages of it. Have fun!
55
02/02/2021 13:05:49 4 0
bbc
'This Prof Dasgupta is an absolute genius.'

Yes - that's why he has a chair at Cambridge and you are reduced to spouting nonsense on HYS!
121
02/02/2021 13:19:30 0 0
bbc
whoopsie
14
02/02/2021 13:01:28 113 14
bbc
An ever increasing population in a world of limited resources.
What could possibly go wrong.
21
Bru
02/02/2021 13:05:24 25 38
bbc
There's a great read called "Factfulness" btw - you'll realise that things aren't quite as dark on the population front as they seem, despite the current increase :)
179
02/02/2021 13:41:41 6 7
bbc
The global human population is already on course to decline in future, of its own accord.

Current trends in birth rates (richer countries have below sustainable birth rates), mean that as more countries become wealthier, the global human population will naturally start shrinking in the not too distant future.
283
02/02/2021 14:21:20 2 11
bbc
Remarkable the correlation in the names of those who are CC deniers & those who generally have far right-wing views. Occasionally they'll switch their argument to over population, blaming Africa & similar, when the problem is 10% of the world's population:

https://ourworld.unu.edu/en/the-worlds-richest-people-also-emit-the-most-carbon

Don't fall for right-wing lies! The poor = small footprint!
326
02/02/2021 14:32:33 3 0
bbc
People with lots of children are normally at one end of the social spectrum or the other - the rich elite who run the show (like Boris with his 6 kids that we know of) or the working class masses.

If you can stop either the people in charge or the majority from doing what they want, then you will be the first in history.
558
02/02/2021 16:38:20 0 0
bbc
Yep let's do something to address unsustainably increasing longevity and reducing child mortality! All caused by improved medical standards.
So what do you suggest?
15
02/02/2021 13:01:32 7 30
bbc
To Be honest right now..I don't really care...I care about increases in young people self harming and a near 20% increase in Alcohol related deaths in the last 9 months, direct consequences of LD policy....But let a HYS about a climate topic instead...
34
02/02/2021 13:10:39 8 1
bbc
So we should all decide to worry about one world problem at a time. That's going to work.
48
02/02/2021 13:14:01 1 1
bbc
BBC priorities mate. The urban elite have a different view on life and priorities. Working from home saves them commuting costs while no drop in income. Why on earth would they consider lockdowns a bad thing? When they want a meal out, they just break the rules and suffer no consequences like those Sky News hypocrites.
52
02/02/2021 13:16:02 6 0
bbc
And there you have encapsulated the whole problem in a nut shell... "I DON'T CARE" is the prime failure of humanity in the biological sense - humanity of the compassionate form is a rapidly dwindling resource like many other natural materials.
71
02/02/2021 13:02:41 0 3
bbc
I really could not care less.
81
02/02/2021 13:21:16 1 0
bbc
Very important, the microcosm, but it is the consequence [will be] of not equally addressing the macrocosm which might be the downfall of humankind.

Space junk for example. it os okay to [ut it all up there, but did anybody thing about the consequences and how to deal with it? Not only are we polluting our beautiful home, we will elsewhere. Perhaps jobs for future? Space junk recycling?
100
02/02/2021 13:18:45 1 0
bbc
Yet strangely you didn't care about those very same people 12 months ago.
7
ljs
02/02/2021 12:56:17 120 27
bbc
The problem AS ALWAYS is TOO MANY People.

The human population has trebled in my lifetime and I have not even retired yet !!!!!

ONE BILLION, NOT TEN should be our aim.
16
02/02/2021 13:01:40 23 4
bbc
Absolutely, unfortunately capitalism requires continuous growth, which is of course, impossible. At some point we need to accept that it's destined to fail but unfortunately humans just don't seem to be able to devise a different model. I wonder which will fail first, humanity or the planet?
150
02/02/2021 13:21:42 7 2
bbc
it wont be the planet. A few thousand years after man disappears it will be as though he/she never existed.
192
02/02/2021 13:44:17 3 4
bbc
@"Absolutely, unfortunately capitalism requires continuous growth, which is of course, impossible. "
---

Utter nonsense

GDP, economic growth, etc, do not equate to material consumption. In many areas - e.g. computers - less power consumption, less material consumption has a higher economic value

There are plenty of other similar economic areas where growth does not neet natural resources
228
02/02/2021 13:58:50 3 1
bbc
But in capitalism, growth can be equally come from generating the same output whilst using less resources. Quite simply, there is no credible alternative to capitalism.

As for socialism, it always results in poverty, corruption and police states.
469
02/02/2021 15:32:17 0 0
bbc
Why does "capitalism require continuous growth"?
3
FF
02/02/2021 12:55:29 45 17
bbc
I’d like to share a revelation that I’ve had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you’re not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not.
17
02/02/2021 13:01:54 19 10
bbc
Perhaps we just haven't reached our equilibrium yet - of course the "equilibrium" could be a desolate planet with no humans...

But in fact your observation is incorrect. Mammals - along with all other life on the planet - exist in complex ecosystems, which may equilibriate for long periods, but will now and then destabilise and move to new equilibria.
134
02/02/2021 13:30:31 1 3
bbc
Yes but your calculations forget to factor in that every other animal can live in harmony in it's environment without a plethora of trappings, straight out of the trap.

Modern humans would die quickly without all the technology and comforts required to sustain us.

It almost makes you think our evolution has been tampered with. Why would we evolve to lose hair then need to put on clothes?
156
02/02/2021 13:25:12 5 0
bbc
The planet would not be desolate, just devoid of humans. Other life would flourish.
290
FF
02/02/2021 14:23:59 1 0
bbc
It's a quote from a film.

Don't take it to seriously.
18
kr1
02/02/2021 13:02:47 43 10
bbc
Ultimately we will pay the highest price - the end of the human race. Nature will then recover, if there is any left.
27
02/02/2021 13:08:00 31 6
bbc
The end of the human race is looking like less and less of a high price with every day that goes by.
58
02/02/2021 13:17:08 3 0
bbc
Someone with far sightedness to realise something must be done now.
85
01
02/02/2021 13:10:28 5 0
bbc
I can't see the human race surviving another 10,000 years, they'll destroy themselves before then by either failing to contain yet another pathogen from a Chinese lab or all-put war, where nobody wins.
19
02/02/2021 13:02:59 7 6
bbc
Lets just invade, take over all developing countries.... restrict their child birth rates, use of natural resources and any kind of industrial revolution that places such as the UK had..... I mean who needs an NHS, drainage, standard or living etc anyway?

Team America......yeah!
51
02/02/2021 13:16:00 0 0
bbc
Perhaps that is why they were de-stabilised in the first place?
99
02/02/2021 13:17:24 1 0
bbc
This is utter drivel.
20
02/02/2021 13:04:23 4 5
bbc
'It is expected to set the agenda on government policy going forward.'
More meaningless drivel
41
02/02/2021 13:12:14 3 4
bbc
Another 'expert' brexitear?
50
02/02/2021 13:15:51 0 4
bbc
Correct. And it is the electorate who set government policy. I for one will not be voting for any party that wants to force civilisation into reverse. I am pretty sure that I am in the majority as well.
14
02/02/2021 13:01:28 113 14
bbc
An ever increasing population in a world of limited resources.
What could possibly go wrong.
21
Bru
02/02/2021 13:05:24 25 38
bbc
There's a great read called "Factfulness" btw - you'll realise that things aren't quite as dark on the population front as they seem, despite the current increase :)
45
02/02/2021 13:12:38 17 1
bbc
Current increase? I'm coming up for 63 and the world's population has pretty well tripled in my lifetime. Explosion more like.
Removed
798
03/02/2021 10:12:14 0 0
bbc
So, just carry on?

"We're on a path to nowhere" rings true.

There is still an opportunity to reverse the impact we have on the planet. All the animal, plants, oceans, atmosphere are our neighbours and haven't been magically put there for our convenience.
13
02/02/2021 13:01:23 11 10
bbc
This Prof Dasgupta is an absolute genius. How did no one put the pieces together before?

Strange though. All I see is an opinion piece about opinions and absolutely no science at all.
22
02/02/2021 13:05:46 16 1
bbc
That's because you presumably haven't read the report. Find it here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/final-report-the-economics-of-biodiversity-the-dasgupta-review

... all 606 pages of it. Have fun!
10
02/02/2021 12:59:24 41 14
bbc
What's your time frame, and how do you propose to meet the aim?
23
ljs
02/02/2021 13:05:55 23 24
bbc
We could start with

(a) All men to have a vasectomy by the time they are 45 years old, I did at 42.

(b) An injectable contraceptive which last 12 years, given to all girls at age 12,
so they get a decent education, first.
47
02/02/2021 13:13:34 6 7
bbc
And you intend to implement that... how?
63
02/02/2021 13:17:47 6 0
bbc
I understand your points. Would the vasectomy be compulsory? How would you deal with those who refuse? Same for the contraceptive. But I suspect both proposals would have little effect on population growth.
268
02/02/2021 14:15:14 1 1
bbc
now that's pretty drastic "social change"... - introduction of human engineering and upsetting several religious groups all at once...
357
02/02/2021 14:42:27 3 2
bbc
Well done for stating the answer that hides in plain sight. It's SO obvious that you have to wonder about the IQ of the downvoters, who either:
- were left out when it was dished out; or
- have educated themselves not on science and biology, but on footy and love island; or
- have such a deficit of self-awareness that they fail to see the stupidity of ignoring an existential threat.
24
02/02/2021 13:06:43 12 26
bbc
As Covid scare stories start to fade it is back to climate change scare stories. Always the same solution presented eg. "end capitalism and replace with socialism". Won't be long before Saint Greta is lecturing us again everyday.
38
02/02/2021 13:11:32 5 6
bbc
Please no.

I always find it amusing people who say climate change is a serious topic and serious emergency. Yes, I too listen to school drop outs with no life experience who have "read a lot on the topic" on all the serious decisions I make in my life about finance, housing, family.... oh wait. No I don't. I ignore bratty children who think they know it all when it comes to anything serious.
49
02/02/2021 13:15:05 5 1
bbc
I suggest you go to somewhere where there is devastation due to humankind greed, then, perhaps you might see why such people feel so strongly about such things and stand up against them.

Same for Covid deserters, I would advocate sending them to an ICU for a shift, I'm sure that would open their eyes also.
76
02/02/2021 13:19:46 1 1
bbc
So you fathered all the patsys who don't accept climate change?
105
02/02/2021 13:16:48 0 0
bbc
oh you poor thing, it must be so difficult for your family.
25
02/02/2021 13:07:30 16 8
bbc
We need to reduce the population......nature has a way of doing this....??????
104
02/02/2021 13:15:55 4 2
bbc
as we can see, yes it does.
110
02/02/2021 13:25:06 3 1
bbc
Overpopulation is a problem. One of many. But it is also a perfect excuse for certain people to sit back and do nothing themselves, because they've convinced themselves that it is all caused by too many brown people.
26
02/02/2021 13:07:45 6 13
bbc
Yeah... we should just like go back to the stone age. No more progress, we all need to live in huts and be natural and vegan and all that. You know, except for the extremely well off middle class folks who advocate this kind of stuff. Their lives shouldn't change at all.

Or maybe we could cut off their power/water supply and force them to experience net-zero carbon and use it as a pilot project?
67
02/02/2021 13:18:30 4 0
bbc
Ludicrous hyperbole - & those that resort to hyperbole are usually the ones clinging to their own weak arguments (or guilt).
With thanks to better housing, food, hygiene & access to fantastically advanced healthcare human life expectancy is much improved; Population has doubled in 40yrs, so despite cleaner industries etc. we're consuming more, nothing to do with veganism etc. just too many of us
103
02/02/2021 13:15:35 1 0
bbc
Yes, because any alternative to an extremist position has to be the entire opposite extreme. All of us need to make better choices.
170
02/02/2021 13:38:11 2 0
bbc
Reductio Ad Absurdum at its finest.
172
02/02/2021 13:38:36 2 0
bbc
My sweet you haven’t evolved beyond the Stone Age.
18
kr1
02/02/2021 13:02:47 43 10
bbc
Ultimately we will pay the highest price - the end of the human race. Nature will then recover, if there is any left.
27
02/02/2021 13:08:00 31 6
bbc
The end of the human race is looking like less and less of a high price with every day that goes by.
10
02/02/2021 12:59:24 41 14
bbc
What's your time frame, and how do you propose to meet the aim?
28
02/02/2021 13:08:02 17 7
bbc
1 child per couple would do it, although not quickly. It's a fair way but would require people in developed countries to accept that they cannot keep increasing their standard of living at expense of others. People in poorer areas try to deal with this by emigrating to richer, which causes more problems.
108
02/02/2021 13:24:56 3 3
bbc
One child per couple: the Chinese policy. But not a good model for civic society, in my view. You accept not quickly: what's the target, and when would you get there? And what is the present estimate of population growth over the next 50 years? Is the problem resource consumption rather than population?
138
02/02/2021 13:30:55 5 1
bbc
I don't want a child. I've got to the age of 47 without having one, and would like to keep it that way please.
193
02/02/2021 13:44:29 6 2
bbc
Yes reduce to c.6bill over 50yrs. Difficult to enforce, but maybe essential; need to listen to holistic science & don't be hijacked by myopic activism (like vegan woman last year who protested along with her 6 kids!)
Human diets haven't changed much in thousands of years & machines are cleaner than ever (well since 1800). Only curve that ties in is consumption has increased in line with pop growth
239
02/02/2021 14:03:51 3 0
bbc
Unfortunately that will only cause an issue where BOYS will be favoured to GIRLS and we have seen in the past where the latter are aborted or even killed after birth. Are we sure we want to go down that path. As a female it’s one less thing to worry about. plus the rich will still find a way to bypass this.
473
02/02/2021 15:33:39 1 0
bbc
When many of the poor migrate to richer areas they continue to have more than two kids - it's a cultural norm that doesn't stop straight away.
29
jon
02/02/2021 13:08:57 50 9
bbc
The problem with the over population argument is that those living in traditional rural communities e.g. India are the lowest polluters. Those living in richer consumer driven nations are by far the biggest polluters, per capita.
91
02/02/2021 13:13:45 34 3
bbc
so western countries need to pollute less.
177
02/02/2021 13:40:39 8 0
bbc
True but the better off people become the more they consume and this applies to India too.
216
02/02/2021 13:55:52 3 0
bbc
Yes but the overspill from the underdeveloped countries all heads for the developed countries.
448
02/02/2021 15:20:34 4 0
bbc
"Those living in richer consumer driven nations are by far the biggest polluters, per capita."

And they're also part of the over-population problem. We need to reduce the population in rich countries too.
467
02/02/2021 15:31:46 3 0
bbc
The UK is overpopulated. We wiped out much of our native fauna years ago. It isn't all about India. Also, Indians actually aspire to be like Europeans so are hardly likely to stay "traditional" or "rural" if they can help it. Sorry but this is not a good argument.
556
02/02/2021 16:36:07 2 0
bbc
So China with their billion in poverty still has higher emission than the UK?
So what is your point??

Also those billions in poverty admittedly dont consume a lot of fossil fuels, but they do destroy a lot of the carbon sinks to survive day2day. When they have exhausted the local soil they move to a new area leaving a barren infertile area behind them.

Its not as simple as you hope
590
02/02/2021 17:49:19 2 0
bbc
Sure but those 3rd-world high birthrate countries all apsire to a Western lifestyle and why should we stop them. They do need to cut their birthrate while we cut our consumption.
30
02/02/2021 13:09:01 9 10
bbc
Yeah send the rest of the world back to the stone age so you can enjoy your plant based moccha latte with a clear conscience.....
54
02/02/2021 13:16:39 1 1
bbc
Hey, better than an animal-based moccha latte.

Make mine an espresso.
31
ljs
02/02/2021 13:09:15 5 13
bbc
We could start with

(a) All men to have a vasectomy by the time they are 45 years old, I did at 42.

(b) An injectable contraceptive which last 12 years, given to all girls at age 12,
so they get a decent education, first.
40
02/02/2021 13:12:09 2 2
bbc
After you..........suggest you start this in somewhere like Iraq or the UAE....

Be like Christian crusades again....they went well, afterall we know best don't we?
62
02/02/2021 13:17:31 2 2
bbc
Ah yes, fascism. How we've missed you since the 1930s. Need to bring back those old SS breeding programs immediately so the plebs aren't making their own silly choices about having children.

More seriously, what you are suggesting is medically unethical. You cannot compel or coerce anyone into medical treatment against their will if they are mentally competent.
64
02/02/2021 13:17:57 0 1
bbc
Is there a word for when you can't agree with something but you can't disagree with it either? Because, for me, it would fit my response to this comment. "Attrition" I suppose?
65
02/02/2021 13:18:06 0 0
bbc
...and carry out FGM at the supermarket??
86
02/02/2021 13:11:32 1 0
bbc
or base it on the number of children the man has.
88
02/02/2021 13:12:56 1 1
bbc
cant even enforce the population to wear masks and stay 2m away from people, good luck with that.
2
02/02/2021 12:55:05 242 24
bbc
Perpetual economic growth both drives and is driven by population growth (and resultant consumption increase): if we want to limit the latter we must stop the former, and as highlighted in this report, stop using GDP to dictate our economic policy, given all world Governments seem to want to do is boost it, despite infinite growth being impossible on a finite planet.
32
02/02/2021 13:09:17 101 11
bbc
It is about greed, and there is no accountability in this world corporatocracy. Bhutan has Gross Domestic Happiness as the key to their government policy, it is a beautiful country which limits tourism by law and by a very expensive price per day - but it works for them. I am sure tourist traps like Spain would like to emulate this on a larger scale.
129
02/02/2021 13:29:01 2 2
bbc
How would the majority earn money then?
270
02/02/2021 14:15:51 3 2
bbc
Greed of the individual; buckpassing it onto some imaginary corporation. If you don't buy it people will stop selling it.
794
03/02/2021 10:04:51 0 0
bbc
The question is: where does greed come from? Is it from ‘human nature’ or from the dynamic of the system and its nature of profit-seeking? Are we born with a profit-seeking drive or is it the system we are born in inculcates the drive for profit and accumulation in some people? Also, what about the greed of the half of the world population that is barely surviving. Why aren’t greedy?
7
ljs
02/02/2021 12:56:17 120 27
bbc
The problem AS ALWAYS is TOO MANY People.

The human population has trebled in my lifetime and I have not even retired yet !!!!!

ONE BILLION, NOT TEN should be our aim.
33
02/02/2021 13:09:42 11 10
bbc
Let's just hope the corona virus keep's creating new variant's and becomes immune to new vaccines because most of the damage done to nature is coming from developing worlds needing more and more space as their population continues to grow.

Whilst the developing world stops destroying nature the developed world should reduce our carbon footprint.
15
02/02/2021 13:01:32 7 30
bbc
To Be honest right now..I don't really care...I care about increases in young people self harming and a near 20% increase in Alcohol related deaths in the last 9 months, direct consequences of LD policy....But let a HYS about a climate topic instead...
34
02/02/2021 13:10:39 8 1
bbc
So we should all decide to worry about one world problem at a time. That's going to work.
35
02/02/2021 13:10:53 56 7
bbc
Yes, population growth needs to stall & then reverse.

However, there's no mechanism to achieve that aim in the next few decades so we should look at other measures in the interim to stop the ongoing destruction of the natural world.

Measures such as disposing of the disposable culture, weaning humanity off its addiction to fossil fuels & stopping the obsession with unsustainable economic growth.
153
02/02/2021 13:22:51 23 1
bbc
Add to that by the govt investing in putting proper recycling systems in place and a big clampdown on littering would help stop the destruction of the planet.
554
02/02/2021 16:32:17 0 0
bbc
Family planning has an impact from day 1.

Or dont you think having a baby has any impact on the environment or resources? A 3am Calamari Milkshake ?? is certainly not eco-friendly, or squid friendly
563
02/02/2021 16:43:45 0 0
bbc
"The world is ill-prepared for the global crash in children being born which is set to have a "jaw-dropping" impact on societies, say researchers."
So that just leaves unsustainable increasing longevity
SO what shall we do about that?
7
ljs
02/02/2021 12:56:17 120 27
bbc
The problem AS ALWAYS is TOO MANY People.

The human population has trebled in my lifetime and I have not even retired yet !!!!!

ONE BILLION, NOT TEN should be our aim.
36
02/02/2021 13:10:55 26 5
bbc
The US with 328m people has 5% of world population but consumes 24% of its resources

Let's pretend even they go 'green' and consume 20% (a 17% drop). That maths suggests maximum developed population of 1.6bn ....but even that strips the planet

The biggest issue Earth faces isn't climate change - Earth survives warmer and colder periods - but human overpopulation and annihilation of ecosystems
.
154
02/02/2021 13:22:54 1 1
bbc
which includes climate change.
5
FF
02/02/2021 12:55:50 45 15
bbc
2/2 You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You’re a plague
37
02/02/2021 13:11:17 0 1
bbc
No animal or plant for that matter cares much about competing species. It is part of nature kill or be killed.
115
sw
02/02/2021 13:26:37 0 1
bbc
I theory, yes. But humans have ruined the ecosystem of the planet, so it is unbalanced.
24
02/02/2021 13:06:43 12 26
bbc
As Covid scare stories start to fade it is back to climate change scare stories. Always the same solution presented eg. "end capitalism and replace with socialism". Won't be long before Saint Greta is lecturing us again everyday.
38
02/02/2021 13:11:32 5 6
bbc
Please no.

I always find it amusing people who say climate change is a serious topic and serious emergency. Yes, I too listen to school drop outs with no life experience who have "read a lot on the topic" on all the serious decisions I make in my life about finance, housing, family.... oh wait. No I don't. I ignore bratty children who think they know it all when it comes to anything serious.
151
02/02/2021 13:22:16 3 0
bbc
I always find it amusing when people lacking any relevant qualifications, research experience or publication history stupidly denounce the opinion of experts and come onto an HYS to demonstrate their ignorance.
162
02/02/2021 13:36:25 3 0
bbc
Have you listened to the Scientists ? Noooo of course you haven’t. What you do is troll because an 18 year old has three times your intelligence and she says listen to the scientists and guess what, you are scared to.
39
02/02/2021 13:11:33 28 5
bbc
Like governments will do a lot, too many politicians with vested interests. Nature strikes back as best it can as we are seeing now.
31
ljs
02/02/2021 13:09:15 5 13
bbc
We could start with

(a) All men to have a vasectomy by the time they are 45 years old, I did at 42.

(b) An injectable contraceptive which last 12 years, given to all girls at age 12,
so they get a decent education, first.
40
02/02/2021 13:12:09 2 2
bbc
After you..........suggest you start this in somewhere like Iraq or the UAE....

Be like Christian crusades again....they went well, afterall we know best don't we?
20
02/02/2021 13:04:23 4 5
bbc
'It is expected to set the agenda on government policy going forward.'
More meaningless drivel
41
02/02/2021 13:12:14 3 4
bbc
Another 'expert' brexitear?
42
02/02/2021 13:12:24 21 5
bbc
What humankind does to nature is shameful! Good to hear more people are joining the tide of change. Just hope it is all not too late.

Let us hope once we have got through the worst of Covid, we can, all "collectively" "globally" get on with saving our beautiful planet! Even means making it economically appealing to bring it about.

Need to stabilise Nations which have been de-stabilised.
2
02/02/2021 12:55:05 242 24
bbc
Perpetual economic growth both drives and is driven by population growth (and resultant consumption increase): if we want to limit the latter we must stop the former, and as highlighted in this report, stop using GDP to dictate our economic policy, given all world Governments seem to want to do is boost it, despite infinite growth being impossible on a finite planet.
43
02/02/2021 13:12:26 9 11
bbc
Global population growth is primarily due to people living longer, more old people. How do you want to stop people living longer?
87
02/02/2021 13:22:26 25 7
bbc
Actually the countries with slowest population growth are the same countries with an ageing population. A large part of the issue is rapidly increasing populations in Africa and Asia. Religion being one of the main issues as most are against family planning.
132
sw
02/02/2021 13:29:53 9 2
bbc
Population growth is mostly due to less death in infancy, and more children.
304
02/02/2021 14:20:04 5 3
bbc
No. It is due to lower infant mortality in sub Saharan Africa and the fact that some cultures deliberately like to keep their women uneducated.
574
02/02/2021 17:10:50 0 2
bbc
Drivel.

Populations in countries with high longevity are either stable, or more often, declining, e.g. Japan, unless they're artifically bolstered by mass immigration, e.g. UK.

Population growth in fastest in the 'developing world' and countries with religions that encourage large families, e.g. most of Africa and Indonesia.

Global population growth is driven by some people having lots of kids
44
02/02/2021 13:02:47 96 20
bbc
The human race is the real virus on this planet.
It's about time politicians started taking overpopulation seriously before we rape every resource on this planet and the human race then becomes extinct.
Proffedor Wjnston said overpopulation will be see the end of the human race.
There should be no money in benefits for anyone starting a family and in the UK should be capped at 2 max per family
80
02/02/2021 13:20:21 16 76
bbc
Very silly comment

Germany is struggling with an ageing population and so is the UK

3rd world countries with space programs don’t care what you think

Let the damage run it’s course those mega polluting countries that have loads of children will be the 1st to suffer

The UK needs to move to electric and small generation and it’s own food stability

Let each country stand on its own feet
320
LL
02/02/2021 14:31:36 4 3
bbc
agree ! David Attenborough does too! let the Virus do it's job I say- and yes, If I died from it so be it! we all have to die after all! we need to learn we are caretakers of the planet!
327
02/02/2021 14:33:08 1 4
bbc
It is less about the number of people than the resources each person consumes. 2 british kids consume about 8 times more than 2 poor african kids. Keep UK max family size to 1 and encourage migration so that migrants' remittances enrich low income countries and richer, better educated people have smaller families.
824
03/02/2021 11:48:57 0 0
bbc
What a miserable person you are. Technology is the only way to solves these issue. Mass population control is just not feasible and wouldnt be supported.
838
03/02/2021 14:38:44 0 0
bbc
Capping families in UK at 2 per family will have no effect. It is 3rd world countries where the birthrate is too high. Just take a look at all the children in TV travel programmes in Africa who are starving, and the young men trying to get into the UK illegally. That is the problem.
21
Bru
02/02/2021 13:05:24 25 38
bbc
There's a great read called "Factfulness" btw - you'll realise that things aren't quite as dark on the population front as they seem, despite the current increase :)
45
02/02/2021 13:12:38 17 1
bbc
Current increase? I'm coming up for 63 and the world's population has pretty well tripled in my lifetime. Explosion more like.
46
02/02/2021 13:13:20 7 5
bbc
This is the greatest existential threat that we face. All the other very valid problems will not be solved if we don't put huge efforts into this one. There are many positive indications that businesses and large organisations are taking this on board and are moving on it. Don't be left behind with helpless pessimism.
23
ljs
02/02/2021 13:05:55 23 24
bbc
We could start with

(a) All men to have a vasectomy by the time they are 45 years old, I did at 42.

(b) An injectable contraceptive which last 12 years, given to all girls at age 12,
so they get a decent education, first.
47
02/02/2021 13:13:34 6 7
bbc
And you intend to implement that... how?
15
02/02/2021 13:01:32 7 30
bbc
To Be honest right now..I don't really care...I care about increases in young people self harming and a near 20% increase in Alcohol related deaths in the last 9 months, direct consequences of LD policy....But let a HYS about a climate topic instead...
48
02/02/2021 13:14:01 1 1
bbc
BBC priorities mate. The urban elite have a different view on life and priorities. Working from home saves them commuting costs while no drop in income. Why on earth would they consider lockdowns a bad thing? When they want a meal out, they just break the rules and suffer no consequences like those Sky News hypocrites.
24
02/02/2021 13:06:43 12 26
bbc
As Covid scare stories start to fade it is back to climate change scare stories. Always the same solution presented eg. "end capitalism and replace with socialism". Won't be long before Saint Greta is lecturing us again everyday.
49
02/02/2021 13:15:05 5 1
bbc
I suggest you go to somewhere where there is devastation due to humankind greed, then, perhaps you might see why such people feel so strongly about such things and stand up against them.

Same for Covid deserters, I would advocate sending them to an ICU for a shift, I'm sure that would open their eyes also.
20
02/02/2021 13:04:23 4 5
bbc
'It is expected to set the agenda on government policy going forward.'
More meaningless drivel
50
02/02/2021 13:15:51 0 4
bbc
Correct. And it is the electorate who set government policy. I for one will not be voting for any party that wants to force civilisation into reverse. I am pretty sure that I am in the majority as well.
146
02/02/2021 13:32:36 1 0
bbc
There won’t be a civilisation if we continue on the present path. Have you not noticed how thin a veneer it is anyway ?

I think you mean your luxury want it have it life not civilisation.
19
02/02/2021 13:02:59 7 6
bbc
Lets just invade, take over all developing countries.... restrict their child birth rates, use of natural resources and any kind of industrial revolution that places such as the UK had..... I mean who needs an NHS, drainage, standard or living etc anyway?

Team America......yeah!
51
02/02/2021 13:16:00 0 0
bbc
Perhaps that is why they were de-stabilised in the first place?
15
02/02/2021 13:01:32 7 30
bbc
To Be honest right now..I don't really care...I care about increases in young people self harming and a near 20% increase in Alcohol related deaths in the last 9 months, direct consequences of LD policy....But let a HYS about a climate topic instead...
52
02/02/2021 13:16:02 6 0
bbc
And there you have encapsulated the whole problem in a nut shell... "I DON'T CARE" is the prime failure of humanity in the biological sense - humanity of the compassionate form is a rapidly dwindling resource like many other natural materials.
6
02/02/2021 12:56:06 165 16
bbc
With too many people and limited resources, this situation will get worse until the population begins to fall and the "throw away society" ends.
53
02/02/2021 13:16:17 43 92
bbc
Common myth. The world population is levelling off at a sustainable level, it just needs us to adopt a higher standard of living so as to be sustainable.

This is our real chance to level up.
174
02/02/2021 13:40:25 16 7
bbc
Wishful thinking.
207
02/02/2021 13:50:44 15 3
bbc
Indeed forecasting suggests it will fall as countries become more developed and women in particular have better access to education and jobs. A cultural change I suppose in some places of women being mothers to part of the workforce

The rate of consumption is a bigger problem as succeeding in life is seen as having more than other people
220
02/02/2021 13:56:45 16 6
bbc
Not true, the world's population has now hit 8.2bn and increasing daily!
243
02/02/2021 14:05:13 11 5
bbc
Rubbish. 250 babies are born every minute. Death rates are nowhere near that, even with Covid around. Human population will continue to rise, that is a simple fact.
387
02/02/2021 14:51:27 1 3
bbc
Good lord. A sensible comment.

Why is everybody else so keen to criticise and moan?
392
02/02/2021 14:53:57 0 0
bbc
The RWA's with their FYJIA attitude wont agree. Their acolytes are all over HYS's but this one in particular.
416
02/02/2021 14:57:18 3 0
bbc
Are you for REAL?
444
02/02/2021 15:08:52 0 3
bbc
correct. also the population is aging. people are living longer and at the present rate there will not be enough young people to work and care for the growing elderly population.
458
02/02/2021 15:22:28 0 0
bbc
common myth ,really
459
02/02/2021 15:27:14 3 0
bbc
Your definition of levelling off and sustainable appear to be at odds with post Enlightenment reality. The global population has approximately trebled in just 70 years and is only projected to level off at an already unsustainable level bin some not especially trustworthy models.
460
02/02/2021 15:27:23 3 0
bbc
A "higher standard of living" is a more comfortable one - with more heating, wider ranges of foods, comfortable furniture, the ability to travel etc etc etc - causing more resource usage, not less.
466
02/02/2021 15:31:27 3 0
bbc
nearly 8 billion people isn't 'sustainable', and the population is still increasing at 80million a year (or just above). There's been a 3 billion increase since 1960 alone. We definitely need reducing in numbers
477
02/02/2021 15:36:57 5 0
bbc
No it isn't and there's literally no evidence out there that suggests we can live sustainably at a 8 billion population.

Even in the perfect world where we rely exclusively on renewables, the sheer surface area that needs to be utilised to account for this technology will continue to obliterate habitats and the ecosystem.

Any backing of current population levels is an excuse. Action is needed.
527
02/02/2021 16:09:25 2 1
bbc
There is a 50% chance that by 2100 the global population will exceed 11.2Billion and keep growing!

Numbers are by the World Health Organisation aka WHO.

https://population.un.org/wpp/Graphs/Probabilistic/POP/TOT/900
529
02/02/2021 16:11:06 1 0
bbc
Absolute crap!
793
03/02/2021 10:03:50 1 0
bbc
Higher standard of living? Explain.
Do you mean more cars, more gadgets, more stuff?

The only way the planet will recover from over-fishing, food production, demands on minerals etc. is to radically reduce the population. In the UK, we still celebrate large families.

We need to be part of nature, not top exploiter.
30
02/02/2021 13:09:01 9 10
bbc
Yeah send the rest of the world back to the stone age so you can enjoy your plant based moccha latte with a clear conscience.....
54
02/02/2021 13:16:39 1 1
bbc
Hey, better than an animal-based moccha latte.

Make mine an espresso.
13
02/02/2021 13:01:23 11 10
bbc
This Prof Dasgupta is an absolute genius. How did no one put the pieces together before?

Strange though. All I see is an opinion piece about opinions and absolutely no science at all.
55
02/02/2021 13:05:49 4 0
bbc
'This Prof Dasgupta is an absolute genius.'

Yes - that's why he has a chair at Cambridge and you are reduced to spouting nonsense on HYS!
56
02/02/2021 13:16:55 15 6
bbc
Frankly we're naive if we don't think COVID is a symptom of the way the planet is mistreated (loss of biodiversity).

If we don't change course, there is lots more pain to come.
118
02/02/2021 13:27:04 4 2
bbc
Covid was caused by a virus species jumping. That is it was caused by biodiversity. Too many different animals all together in wet markets.
158
02/02/2021 13:34:39 0 0
bbc
Shack on the target sir.
57
02/02/2021 13:17:07 9 4
bbc
Just introduce a global quota of two kids per couple (i.e. 1:1 replication), which will stop the explosion in global population. There will still be a gradual increase due to people living longer, but in a generation or so this would level out, and eventually start to fall, because some people/couples choose not to reproduce at all, or stop at 1. Also castrate all murderers/rapists/terrorists.
111
02/02/2021 13:25:37 3 8
bbc
So poor nations which lack a welfare safety net and health care should have fewer children. And parents their just hope their children survive to support them in old age. While wealthy nations already at or below 1:1 replication carry on as they are. When it is the wealth nations whose populations are disproportionately responsible for consumption/pollution.
18
kr1
02/02/2021 13:02:47 43 10
bbc
Ultimately we will pay the highest price - the end of the human race. Nature will then recover, if there is any left.
58
02/02/2021 13:17:08 3 0
bbc
Someone with far sightedness to realise something must be done now.
59
02/02/2021 13:17:10 2 4
bbc
If I shout fake news in a loud aggressive manner I find that inconvenient problems like this suddenly seem somehow unimportant.
60
02/02/2021 13:17:29 2 2
bbc
Not sure about this approach, hope it doesn't make people think, for example, if a forest is "worth" £100,000 but a factory will provide jobs worth £200,000 that they can then cut down the forest and build a factory instead.

Katie Edwards of UCL is spot on.

A California strategy, detailed in the book, "California Greenin': How the Golden State Became an Env. Leader" , could work well though.
262
02/02/2021 14:12:56 2 1
bbc
They can't even keep the lights on in California. Ridiculous eco taxes are driving jobs out of the state. Its watermelon politics.
61
02/02/2021 13:17:29 61 5
bbc
Its not "prosperity", its GREED. There's a huge difference...
628
02/02/2021 19:03:07 2 15
bbc
Very poor punctuation. People and societies that want to improve their material wealth are not greedy. That claim is just as fatuous as professor Dasgupta stating that we caused Covid by unbalancing nature. How does that fool think that 8% of the human genome became viral in the first place.
These pseudo experts just make stuff up.
31
ljs
02/02/2021 13:09:15 5 13
bbc
We could start with

(a) All men to have a vasectomy by the time they are 45 years old, I did at 42.

(b) An injectable contraceptive which last 12 years, given to all girls at age 12,
so they get a decent education, first.
62
02/02/2021 13:17:31 2 2
bbc
Ah yes, fascism. How we've missed you since the 1930s. Need to bring back those old SS breeding programs immediately so the plebs aren't making their own silly choices about having children.

More seriously, what you are suggesting is medically unethical. You cannot compel or coerce anyone into medical treatment against their will if they are mentally competent.
23
ljs
02/02/2021 13:05:55 23 24
bbc
We could start with

(a) All men to have a vasectomy by the time they are 45 years old, I did at 42.

(b) An injectable contraceptive which last 12 years, given to all girls at age 12,
so they get a decent education, first.
63
02/02/2021 13:17:47 6 0
bbc
I understand your points. Would the vasectomy be compulsory? How would you deal with those who refuse? Same for the contraceptive. But I suspect both proposals would have little effect on population growth.
31
ljs
02/02/2021 13:09:15 5 13
bbc
We could start with

(a) All men to have a vasectomy by the time they are 45 years old, I did at 42.

(b) An injectable contraceptive which last 12 years, given to all girls at age 12,
so they get a decent education, first.
64
02/02/2021 13:17:57 0 1
bbc
Is there a word for when you can't agree with something but you can't disagree with it either? Because, for me, it would fit my response to this comment. "Attrition" I suppose?
31
ljs
02/02/2021 13:09:15 5 13
bbc
We could start with

(a) All men to have a vasectomy by the time they are 45 years old, I did at 42.

(b) An injectable contraceptive which last 12 years, given to all girls at age 12,
so they get a decent education, first.
65
02/02/2021 13:18:06 0 0
bbc
...and carry out FGM at the supermarket??
10
02/02/2021 12:59:24 41 14
bbc
What's your time frame, and how do you propose to meet the aim?
66
02/02/2021 13:18:19 14 7
bbc
My name is Mother Nature and I intend to do it with coronaviruses.
253
02/02/2021 14:08:05 2 0
bbc
Not really. She needs to send an asteroid our way. We can beat viruses nowadays and their death tolls are tiny compared to the population.
842
03/02/2021 16:27:16 0 0
bbc
You will need to do better than a virus with less than 1% mortality rate. Something that kills around 20% of the infected population would have a much better effect.
26
02/02/2021 13:07:45 6 13
bbc
Yeah... we should just like go back to the stone age. No more progress, we all need to live in huts and be natural and vegan and all that. You know, except for the extremely well off middle class folks who advocate this kind of stuff. Their lives shouldn't change at all.

Or maybe we could cut off their power/water supply and force them to experience net-zero carbon and use it as a pilot project?
67
02/02/2021 13:18:30 4 0
bbc
Ludicrous hyperbole - & those that resort to hyperbole are usually the ones clinging to their own weak arguments (or guilt).
With thanks to better housing, food, hygiene & access to fantastically advanced healthcare human life expectancy is much improved; Population has doubled in 40yrs, so despite cleaner industries etc. we're consuming more, nothing to do with veganism etc. just too many of us
68
02/02/2021 12:59:22 5 8
bbc
Buried in snow here... again. Has the 'carbon' stopped working or summat? Please don't give me the old 'confusing weather with climate' drivel - I know more than you ever will. You've all fallen for it hook, line and sinker.
235
02/02/2021 14:02:20 0 1
bbc
Great to know you know or than I ever will because going by your posts on climate HYS you're very good at hiding your expertness. When do you plant to start demonstrating your knowledge?
503
02/02/2021 15:46:38 0 0
bbc
'Please don't give me the old 'confusing weather with climate' drivel - I know more than you ever will.'

That is the unlikliest proposition to be aired on HYS for a very long time!
10
02/02/2021 12:59:24 41 14
bbc
What's your time frame, and how do you propose to meet the aim?
69
02/02/2021 13:01:36 8 9
bbc
He doesn't know how to achieve his goal. It's just an inane catchphrase.
116
02/02/2021 13:26:48 5 6
bbc
Outside of the methods mentioned, it is not just an inane catchphrase.

5 year old children can tell you that population reduction needs to be done.

Yet apparently that simple balancing of the equation is beyond the grasp of a fully formed adult (I presume?).
70
02/02/2021 13:01:49 2 4
bbc
Comment posted by ljs, today at 12:56

"The problem AS ALWAYS is TOO MANY People.
The human population has trebled in my lifetime and I have not even retired yet !!!!!
ONE BILLION, NOT TEN should be our aim."

Maybe Covid will grant you your heart's desire. If not, there's always 'the vaccine' to take care of things.
15
02/02/2021 13:01:32 7 30
bbc
To Be honest right now..I don't really care...I care about increases in young people self harming and a near 20% increase in Alcohol related deaths in the last 9 months, direct consequences of LD policy....But let a HYS about a climate topic instead...
71
02/02/2021 13:02:41 0 3
bbc
I really could not care less.
72
02/02/2021 13:19:36 11 3
bbc
We need to take an honest holistic view of the plight we are in and develop appropriate solutions. We are all going to have to change the way we think and the way we live. It should be led by government and industry and make it easier for people to follow. If we don’t do it quickly we won’t get a chance to do it all.
73
02/02/2021 13:19:40 3 3
bbc
Religions, like the Catholicism and a sect of the Muslim religion are not helping with their respective 'have more children' pleas.
Greed is another angle, as with the US and a lack of Governance over populations.
Right-wing Governments are doing their best to set fire to the world and China has gone back to an 'over populate' stance.
What to do? Curtail freedoms, more wars or something else?
11
sw
02/02/2021 12:59:58 43 21
bbc
Too many people. 1 child per couple, should be the norm. The problem is making that happen.
74
02/02/2021 13:19:45 10 22
bbc
Yeah, let’s revert back to the Chinese policy of the eighties ?

??
140
sw
02/02/2021 13:31:34 1 1
bbc
Agree, good plan.
75
02/02/2021 13:19:46 4 6
bbc
human (species Homo sapians) don't belong to be called mammals because they don't live in some sort of harmony with their environment like other mammals do. they should be classified as parasites and that is particularly true if we look at the behaviours of viruses.
24
02/02/2021 13:06:43 12 26
bbc
As Covid scare stories start to fade it is back to climate change scare stories. Always the same solution presented eg. "end capitalism and replace with socialism". Won't be long before Saint Greta is lecturing us again everyday.
76
02/02/2021 13:19:46 1 1
bbc
So you fathered all the patsys who don't accept climate change?
77
02/02/2021 13:19:52 6 7
bbc
As many are saying. We need to reduce the human population. However that in itself will not be enough, we all need to change our habits whether that be drive electric, buy less plastic don’t fly etc. Trouble is that it is hard to give it up once you have it.
There are not many people that can say after the first lockdown that they did not slip back into their old ways.
267
02/02/2021 14:15:02 1 0
bbc
Where in the UK do you want to put the 30 plus new nuclear power stations?
78
02/02/2021 13:20:08 49 12
bbc
The wealthy always blame feckless poor people having too many kids rather than their own massive consumption and the pollution it causes. What we need is a behavioral change by those who are the consumers. Population growth in poorer nations will decrease if more girls go to school and are economically independent, marry later. Increase the GDP of poorer nations and population will fall.
297
02/02/2021 14:25:44 19 3
bbc
Not so. When these girls become economically independent, and maybe help to increase the GDP of poorer nations, what happens? Consumption in those nations goes up.

You are still fixated on increasing GDP. That is what has got the entire globe into this mess in the first place. Endless growth. Can't be done.

Before some clever dick asks me what the answer is, if I knew I wouldn't be posting here.
321
02/02/2021 14:31:44 0 4
bbc
"Prosperity comes at 'devastating' cost to nature"

Time to defund the BBC then and make it a whole lot poorer, think of the environment Beeb.
338
02/02/2021 14:36:16 2 0
bbc
Boris is wealthy and he doesn't blame "feckless poor people". That may be because he's a nice, morally sound, decent person. Then again, it may be because he has 6 kids (that we know of) and counting. Hard to tell really.
602
02/02/2021 18:09:58 1 0
bbc
Yes and no, one of the big issues is that the west spent a lot of time in developing nations "improving education and health" so that life expectancy and infant mortality improved. What was never addressed has been all the cultural issues around wanting a boy & contraception. China addressed this with a one-child policy however it is a very different regime to Asian or African countries.
79
02/02/2021 13:06:51 4 10
bbc
If everyone went vegan it would be great for the environment, but people are too selfish.
112
02/02/2021 13:25:51 0 0
bbc
This is bigger than that, although it is clearly a part of the mix.
274
02/02/2021 14:17:15 0 0
bbc
It would
be better to have less children
44
02/02/2021 13:02:47 96 20
bbc
The human race is the real virus on this planet.
It's about time politicians started taking overpopulation seriously before we rape every resource on this planet and the human race then becomes extinct.
Proffedor Wjnston said overpopulation will be see the end of the human race.
There should be no money in benefits for anyone starting a family and in the UK should be capped at 2 max per family
80
02/02/2021 13:20:21 16 76
bbc
Very silly comment

Germany is struggling with an ageing population and so is the UK

3rd world countries with space programs don’t care what you think

Let the damage run it’s course those mega polluting countries that have loads of children will be the 1st to suffer

The UK needs to move to electric and small generation and it’s own food stability

Let each country stand on its own feet
157
02/02/2021 13:34:38 4 3
bbc
I have a feeling the Coronavirus has taken care of part of the problem.
221
02/02/2021 13:56:54 11 0
bbc
The problem is that pollution does not recognise political boundaries, so everyone has to play ball if the planet is to sustain the biological systems that are necessary for human survival, let alone the survival of other species.
236
02/02/2021 14:02:36 3 1
bbc
Yes your comment is indeed very silly. Countries are human concepts that pollution ignores. Why didn't you learn about cooperation?
263
02/02/2021 14:13:37 4 0
bbc
UK, Germany, Japan might have aging populations but this is a global problem. Those 3 countries mean nothing when you look at population growth in Africa, India, South America. Let each country stand on its own feet? Populations migrate. Didn't you know there are Africans and Indians in the UK?
393
02/02/2021 14:54:05 3 2
bbc
There's no problem with an ageing population.

There's a massive problem with 14 trillion pounds of socialist welfare state pension debts.
443
02/02/2021 15:15:37 3 0
bbc
Yes, getting the population down implies an ageing population. We'll have to learn to deal with it. By, for example:

- increasing taxes
- requiring people to work longer
- investing in means to increase productivity

Just because it's going to be hard doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
536
02/02/2021 16:14:25 1 0
bbc
Really stupid comment - that's the problem.
825
03/02/2021 11:49:58 0 0
bbc
I dont agree with you on power, we need energy dense solutions such a nuclear, not inefficient wind and solar
15
02/02/2021 13:01:32 7 30
bbc
To Be honest right now..I don't really care...I care about increases in young people self harming and a near 20% increase in Alcohol related deaths in the last 9 months, direct consequences of LD policy....But let a HYS about a climate topic instead...
81
02/02/2021 13:21:16 1 0
bbc
Very important, the microcosm, but it is the consequence [will be] of not equally addressing the macrocosm which might be the downfall of humankind.

Space junk for example. it os okay to [ut it all up there, but did anybody thing about the consequences and how to deal with it? Not only are we polluting our beautiful home, we will elsewhere. Perhaps jobs for future? Space junk recycling?
11
sw
02/02/2021 12:59:58 43 21
bbc
Too many people. 1 child per couple, should be the norm. The problem is making that happen.
Castration might work. Removed
83
02/02/2021 13:21:45 7 6
bbc
We need to get rid of money as a system for running the world. It distorts value and gives power to random people.
242
02/02/2021 14:04:57 2 0
bbc
I guess you haven't got any
84
01
02/02/2021 13:08:34 2 2
bbc
If Covid can't wipe out half of the humans, Mother Nature will find another way.
18
kr1
02/02/2021 13:02:47 43 10
bbc
Ultimately we will pay the highest price - the end of the human race. Nature will then recover, if there is any left.
85
01
02/02/2021 13:10:28 5 0
bbc
I can't see the human race surviving another 10,000 years, they'll destroy themselves before then by either failing to contain yet another pathogen from a Chinese lab or all-put war, where nobody wins.
760
03/02/2021 09:13:53 0 0
bbc
10,000 years is very optimistic, realistically, could be lucky to see a thousand years, as we come to the end of the Age of Kali.
31
ljs
02/02/2021 13:09:15 5 13
bbc
We could start with

(a) All men to have a vasectomy by the time they are 45 years old, I did at 42.

(b) An injectable contraceptive which last 12 years, given to all girls at age 12,
so they get a decent education, first.
86
02/02/2021 13:11:32 1 0
bbc
or base it on the number of children the man has.
43
02/02/2021 13:12:26 9 11
bbc
Global population growth is primarily due to people living longer, more old people. How do you want to stop people living longer?
87
02/02/2021 13:22:26 25 7
bbc
Actually the countries with slowest population growth are the same countries with an ageing population. A large part of the issue is rapidly increasing populations in Africa and Asia. Religion being one of the main issues as most are against family planning.
271
02/02/2021 14:16:21 10 9
bbc
Remarkable the correlation in the names of those who are CC deniers & those who generally have far right-wing views. Occasionally they'll switch their argument to over population, blaming Africa & similar, when the problem is 10% of the world's population:

https://ourworld.unu.edu/en/the-worlds-richest-people-also-emit-the-most-carbon

Don't fall for right-wing lies! The poor = small footprint!
287
02/02/2021 14:23:03 9 0
bbc
Womens' education is shown to be the main factor in reducing family size. Educated women = smaller family size
359
02/02/2021 14:42:56 4 3
bbc
UN data
World Crude birth rate (births per 1,000 population)
1950-1955 36.94
1955-1960 35.42
1965-1970 34.01
1975-1980 28.49
1985-1990 27.38
1995-2000 22.21
2005-2010 20.34
2015-2020 18.49

Population growth is primarily down to people living longer. The mean age of the world's population is increasing.
791
03/02/2021 09:58:03 1 0
bbc
According to the UN, there is no overpopulation. The world is producing enough for everybody. Most of the waste and CO2 emission (93%) are generated by the global north. In Africa, e.g. people have more children because of economic reasons, not religion. In poor countries there is almost no welfare state, pensions are very meagre so parents rely on their children for a living/future security.
31
ljs
02/02/2021 13:09:15 5 13
bbc
We could start with

(a) All men to have a vasectomy by the time they are 45 years old, I did at 42.

(b) An injectable contraceptive which last 12 years, given to all girls at age 12,
so they get a decent education, first.
88
02/02/2021 13:12:56 1 1
bbc
cant even enforce the population to wear masks and stay 2m away from people, good luck with that.
89
01
02/02/2021 13:13:06 2 2
bbc
Logan's Run had the right idea. We need "carousels" where we all go at 80, I'd not want to be any older anyway.
120
02/02/2021 13:27:45 1 2
bbc
A better idea would be to cull anyone of reproductive age thus creating a mass gap which current children could grow into safe in the knowledge that their grandparents can take care of them until they are grown then conveniently pop off and further reduce the burden.
90
02/02/2021 13:13:29 1 2
bbc
Comment posted by LS Family, today at 13:07

"We need to reduce the population......nature has a way of doing this....??????"

In my homebrew vessels, a few million yeast cells quickly become many billions, gorging on the riches presented to them. Then they starve and are poisoned by their own by-product. That's how we're going. It's not a problem, just the natural sequence of events.
106
02/02/2021 13:24:47 1 1
bbc
It would be a problem if the yeast also poisoned every other available species alongside itself.
29
jon
02/02/2021 13:08:57 50 9
bbc
The problem with the over population argument is that those living in traditional rural communities e.g. India are the lowest polluters. Those living in richer consumer driven nations are by far the biggest polluters, per capita.
91
02/02/2021 13:13:45 34 3
bbc
so western countries need to pollute less.
160
02/02/2021 13:35:27 6 4
bbc
Not quite the largest polluters though, are they?
567
02/02/2021 16:45:46 0 0
bbc
And need to buy less from China, while simultaneously blaming them for polluting the planet
12
02/02/2021 13:00:55 50 12
bbc
One suspects that for most polluters, just as for Trump, it's a matter of sovereignty, not economics.

A small, local example: it would cost my fellow directors of our property management company just 30p each to offset the 2020 emissions for our courtyard lighting. All but one refused.
92
02/02/2021 13:22:41 11 4
bbc
Good work.
All little efforts collectively add up!
143
02/02/2021 13:31:59 1 0
bbc
But are never measured!
5
FF
02/02/2021 12:55:50 45 15
bbc
2/2 You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You’re a plague
93
02/02/2021 13:22:59 1 1
bbc
and what pray tell are you then?
94
02/02/2021 13:23:12 3 3
bbc
Continuous growth on a finite resource is impossible.
We need to have less use of the resource and this is achieved in 2 ways.
Existing population consuming less or less of us consuming the same.
The problem isn't huge Indian populations, they don't consume much (comparitively).
The western "civilisations" avocado toasts and 4 cars/family is.
Rethink, reuse and periodically, go without!
377
02/02/2021 14:48:07 1 0
bbc
"The problem isn't huge Indian populations, they don't consume much (comparitively)."

Not individually they don't, but when there are many millions of them the total consumption becomes a major matter.

It is the consumption rate that matters, not how many are doing how much of it individually - the overall consumption.
95
02/02/2021 13:23:19 4 3
bbc
Wow never thought I'd use the phrase "Eco-terrorists"

Some of the suggestions on here I think people need a good hard look in the mirror.

or are you self appointed "climate change freedom fighters" because you know one man's freedom fighter is a.....
96
02/02/2021 13:23:22 4 2
bbc
If there is a problem I DEMAND that some body else does something to sort it out.
Don't ask ME to do anything!
10
02/02/2021 12:59:24 41 14
bbc
What's your time frame, and how do you propose to meet the aim?
97
sw
02/02/2021 13:23:57 1 2
bbc
Check out ljs
98
02/02/2021 13:24:08 2 8
bbc
Oooh look! It's the rich people to blame. Not the poor people who refused to use contraception. Well blow me down! Who would have thought the BBC would publish dross like this?
117
02/02/2021 13:27:01 3 2
bbc
That’s because we consume and pollute infinitely more and thereby do the vast amount damage. Is that so hard to understand ?
127
02/02/2021 13:28:19 2 1
bbc
Engage brain before commenting please.

Who has more impact on the environment - a rich person with several cars, disposable lifestyle, flying around the word, or a family of six in a shack with a tin roof?

Take all the time you need.
171
02/02/2021 13:38:29 0 0
bbc
The population problem may not be with the new people joining but rather those hanging around at the other end.
19
02/02/2021 13:02:59 7 6
bbc
Lets just invade, take over all developing countries.... restrict their child birth rates, use of natural resources and any kind of industrial revolution that places such as the UK had..... I mean who needs an NHS, drainage, standard or living etc anyway?

Team America......yeah!
99
02/02/2021 13:17:24 1 0
bbc
This is utter drivel.
169
02/02/2021 13:38:09 0 0
bbc
Why because it's literally the advocation of people on this website? Read the posts...
15
02/02/2021 13:01:32 7 30
bbc
To Be honest right now..I don't really care...I care about increases in young people self harming and a near 20% increase in Alcohol related deaths in the last 9 months, direct consequences of LD policy....But let a HYS about a climate topic instead...
100
02/02/2021 13:18:45 1 0
bbc
Yet strangely you didn't care about those very same people 12 months ago.