'Reed's reputation precedes him'
01/02/2021 | sport | golf | 597
Patrick Reed and Rory McIlroy followed similar protocols when dealing with an embedded ball last week but the American is under more scrutiny because reputations matter, writes Iain Carter.
1
01/02/2021 13:17:14 13 15
bbc
I'm playing the worlds tiniest violin in a solemn tribute to these poor, victimised millionaires. Life has a way of giving you what you deserve. Serena Williams, Reed, Joelinton, Sharapova - you get the attention you earn. Rules is rules no matter how big you think you are.
454
01/02/2021 22:08:22 0 1
bbc
Serena. Sharapova and Reed all major champions. Joelinton’s not even good enough for Sunderland.
2
01/02/2021 13:17:41 57 19
bbc
He has got a reputation, but on this occasion I kind of feel for him, he was told by the ball spotter it didn't bounce, could he have handled it better? Definitely, but the rules official was happy so that should be the end of it.
120
01/02/2021 14:31:15 37 13
bbc
The ball spotter didn’t say that the ball didn’t bounce, she said she didn’t see it bounce, big difference.
If he had half a brain he would have waited for an official, perhaps with the same result but no sense of gaming the rules.
3
01/02/2021 13:18:11 81 11
bbc
I guess the key thing here is that the ball spotter allegedly said they didn't "see it" bounce which is not the same as saying "it didn't bounce". With that element of doubt Reed should have waited for an official. If he had asked for the referee before he moved the ball that would have been the correct procedure under the circumstances.
54
01/02/2021 13:53:32 44 77
bbc
Why wait? The Rules are clear that he doesn't have to.

It isn't up to the player to make new rules up as he goes around the course.

When Joe Bloggs is out on his Sunday Medal, will he call for a Rules Official?

One set of rules for ALL golfers. Unless Local Rules are in place that is.

Live with it. Don't let your personal prejudices cloud the scenario. Or call McIlroy out as a cheat too.
107
01/02/2021 14:24:26 10 4
bbc
I’m no fan of Reed, but on this occasion, I think he’s being unfairly hounded. He did ask the ball spotter if it bounced and she clearly said no.

He could have left the ball until the rules official arrived.

Within the law of the game, yes

Within the spirit of the game, the reaction worldwide says no.
259
01/02/2021 17:00:41 3 4
bbc
Everyone agrees that he didn’t break the rules so why do you seem to be suggesting that he did by not and waiting for a referee?
4
01/02/2021 13:19:45 11 16
bbc
I REALLY DON'T TRUST REED AT ALL. Golf is a game requiring integrity, and the evidence is that he doesn't have any of that. He repeatedly gets caught doing things you're not meant to - and getting away with it. GOLF WOULD BE BETTER OFF WITHOUT HIM!!!
You Idiot Grow Up Removed
5
01/02/2021 13:20:16 12 15
bbc
Nothing really to say is there. The man's a devious cheat. He needs to be reprimanded for the good of the game.
44
01/02/2021 13:50:52 5 2
bbc
Yes reprimand him for sticking to the Rules.

You'd better do the same to McIlroy as he did the same, as probably did a large number of players in this and every tournament since the rules were clarified
6
01/02/2021 13:22:35 12 10
bbc
Golf is a game all about integrity, something which Reed seems to lack. A shame really as he is undoubtedly a phenomenal golfer who doesn't need to break any rules, I think it's just the type of person he is.
7
01/02/2021 13:23:33 10 12
bbc
Reed sounds a bit like Trump
8
01/02/2021 13:24:31 134 20
bbc
If you make rules that when followed to the letter cause controversy you have only yourself to blame. I’m no fan of Reed and he hasn’t done himself any favours but it’s a bit rich him being criticised for following rules.
202
Ian
01/02/2021 15:45:51 37 6
bbc
Agree. Recent rule changes have done nothing but muddy the waters. Designed to speed up play, make the game more enjoyable and inclusive rather than to make the game fair for all. Those who play the game for more than a month or two can see something is awry. Reed broke no rules.
368
01/02/2021 19:32:45 5 1
bbc
Question seems to be did he apply the rule for an embedded ball incorrectly since it clearly was unlikely to be embedded. I think he manipulated the situation when he didn't like the lie... That's misapplying rules. Only he truly knows but he also could easily have avoided the situation should he have cared to.
375
01/02/2021 19:48:14 1 2
bbc
Yea, if you're not sure. You pick your ball up yourself, move it then tell official you want a ruling. Might try that next time I'm behind something or an ant is on my ball.
524
02/02/2021 08:46:59 0 4
bbc
The rules do not allow you to move your ball then tell the marker YOU tell the marker first
551
02/02/2021 10:42:44 0 0
bbc
Unfortunately you are correct as the PGA officials have given him the OK but the problem is the rule itself is open to abuse and their is no doubt in my mind that Reed and probably several other Pro's took advantage of this.I believe the 'embedded ball' must be verified by a fellow competitor before relief is taken.
9
01/02/2021 13:26:20 10 12
bbc
He did nothing wrong. Get over it.
10
DLY
01/02/2021 13:26:50 2 5
bbc
Shame really as the game needs some edgy characters - but not cheats. VJ Singh still suffers from a reputation and that was from his amateur career - amongst the players, they do not forget and word will spread rapidly. Personally I like the water off a duck's back attitude he has, especially for RC but this is a continuing theme for Reed.
42
01/02/2021 13:49:38 2 1
bbc
So using your logic, it is Fine to call McIlroy a cheat as well?
115
01/02/2021 14:29:43 0 1
bbc
I watched Vijay Singh play at The Grove a few years back - he had a reputation as a hot head strangely. He drove his ball into the rough on one hole and I watched an elderly official shuffle towards his ball and accidentally tread on it, pushing it 90% below the mud. The other officials quickly ushered the culprit away before VS could find him and tell him what he thought.
11
01/02/2021 13:27:45 1 19
bbc
Didn't even know the US Open was on... BBC hardly promoted one of the 4 major golf events of the year. Shame.
14
01/02/2021 13:31:28 12 1
bbc
If you actually follow golf properly and/or read the article properly, you’ll find it was NOT the US Open. So desparate to bash the BBC. Get out from under that rock fgs.
15
01/02/2021 13:32:32 3 1
bbc
What? It says it's a US Open course it wasn't the US Open and you owe the much maligned BBC an apology.
16
01/02/2021 13:33:59 1 1
bbc
It wasn't the US Open, the event was just held at a former US Open venue
556
02/02/2021 10:54:58 0 0
bbc
You should get a rules official to check your eyesight
12
01/02/2021 13:28:48 5 6
bbc
You can't have it both ways. We want play speeded up and Reed resembles new golf. The outcome would have been the same whether he called an official first or after. The spotter said it didn't bounce. End of.
13
01/02/2021 13:28:53 4 28
bbc
Reed is the best golfer in the world show some respect you peasants!
109
01/02/2021 14:25:46 1 1
bbc
Think Dustin Johnson might have something to say about that......
11
01/02/2021 13:27:45 1 19
bbc
Didn't even know the US Open was on... BBC hardly promoted one of the 4 major golf events of the year. Shame.
14
01/02/2021 13:31:28 12 1
bbc
If you actually follow golf properly and/or read the article properly, you’ll find it was NOT the US Open. So desparate to bash the BBC. Get out from under that rock fgs.
11
01/02/2021 13:27:45 1 19
bbc
Didn't even know the US Open was on... BBC hardly promoted one of the 4 major golf events of the year. Shame.
15
01/02/2021 13:32:32 3 1
bbc
What? It says it's a US Open course it wasn't the US Open and you owe the much maligned BBC an apology.
11
01/02/2021 13:27:45 1 19
bbc
Didn't even know the US Open was on... BBC hardly promoted one of the 4 major golf events of the year. Shame.
16
01/02/2021 13:33:59 1 1
bbc
It wasn't the US Open, the event was just held at a former US Open venue
108
01/02/2021 14:25:14 0 1
bbc
the 2021 US Open Venue.
17
01/02/2021 13:36:54 112 27
bbc
We golfers know when a ball in plugged or not, and if that ball bounced up about a foot, how can it possibly be plugged when it fell back from about a foot? Reed knew it wasn't plugged, yes deep down in the grass but not plugged. The rules official got it wrong but I think he was influenced by Reed.
47
01/02/2021 13:51:15 24 115
bbc
You haven't played much it seems.
51
01/02/2021 13:52:37 12 16
bbc
The rules don't say 'plugged' they say 'embedded' which is ANY part of the ball below the ground. If the ground is soggy enough, you could PLACE it on the ground and it would sink. I don't know if it was embedded, neither do you. The rules official said it was. Should be the end of the story.
59
01/02/2021 13:55:56 8 6
bbc
But NOBODY knew it bounced!
67
wb1
01/02/2021 13:58:50 14 8
bbc
Spot on ... everyone knows it wasn't plugged. If a ball is embedded it's obvious to any "golfer". Sad that a top tour pro can't or chooses not to tell the difference?!
160
01/02/2021 15:12:42 23 3
bbc
Wholeheartedly agree. And contrasting with Rory McIlroy's ball replacement, there seemed to be no lie improvement for Rory at all, whereas Patrick Reed's ball went from deep rough to fringe rough - so no comparison
263
01/02/2021 17:09:50 5 13
bbc
i have seen balls bounce 3 times and plug, you have no clue how wet the ground was where his ball went. At Torey Pines they actually put hose pipes in the rough and leave them on all night to grow the rough...you can drop it in some places from knee height and it will plug !
351
01/02/2021 18:56:10 2 5
bbc
Reed went out of his way to call the rules official over (unlike Rory). He didn't know that the official could be 'influenced'; if there had not been an obvious dip in the ground, the official would have called it - or might have, Reed couldn't be sure of that. So if you think it was a deliberate pre-meditated cheat, Reed must be a new Derren Brown, confident of his ability to control minds...
362
01/02/2021 19:22:38 2 3
bbc
Drop your golf ball from 2-3 feet not 1 foot into very soft wet ground and you’ll find it makes a slight indentation! That’s all that it needs to be classed as plugged! Reed wasn’t at fault here! It’s all about his reputation which isn’t great... rorys and reeds were identical as they both bounced and Rory swore on his life his was plugged! So either both are liars or both telling the truth!
420
01/02/2021 20:47:31 1 1
bbc
The evidence is damming for Reed. However I’m surprised at McIlroy his ball bounced aswell surely he could tell his ball wasn’t plugged aswell
462
01/02/2021 22:22:46 1 0
bbc
Funny how the Marshall reported that it did not bounce.
500
02/02/2021 06:26:46 1 0
bbc
When you say Reed you actually meant to say Reed and MaclLroy?
520
02/02/2021 08:34:37 1 0
bbc
Then..... you would also say that Rory got it wrong also?
18
01/02/2021 13:37:23 0 1
bbc
The rules of golf are written expecting the players to act with integrity and respect the spirit of the game. Unfortunately there is so much money in the professional game this is always going to happen 90% of the golf in tournaments isnt on tv. So there is probably a lot more of this going on. Reeds just on tv more than the others
19
01/02/2021 13:37:31 18 4
bbc
For me The Rules Committee left themselves wide open to exploitation...
38
01/02/2021 13:48:41 1 7
bbc
Why, they ALL abode by the Rules.
20
01/02/2021 13:37:49 29 7
bbc
He has a reputation now so everything he does comes under the spotlight. I don't think, on this occasion, did anything wrong. The people walking alongside the fairway said the ball didn't bounce. I also think the Sky commentators love to stir the pot too!
21
01/02/2021 13:38:13 13 11
bbc
As usual in the reporting of sporting events and stars the media are more interested in controversy than they are in celebrating performance. Patrick Reeds golf throughout this tournament was superb, particularly his short game. Everything he did was within the Rules of Golf. My admiration and congratulations go to Mr Reed for a stunning performance/
216
01/02/2021 16:14:16 1 1
bbc
Thank you for the comment from Patrick Reed's father.
4
01/02/2021 13:19:45 11 16
bbc
I REALLY DON'T TRUST REED AT ALL. Golf is a game requiring integrity, and the evidence is that he doesn't have any of that. He repeatedly gets caught doing things you're not meant to - and getting away with it. GOLF WOULD BE BETTER OFF WITHOUT HIM!!!
You Idiot Grow Up Removed
23
01/02/2021 13:38:34 6 4
bbc
Reed was very close to the edge on the rules but has been exonerated by the ruling body so I guess we have to accept that. Within the rules yes, within the spirit - questionable! No one seems to have questioned the rules official as, clearly, the ball was not embedded. I think Rory has a question to answer too as his ball also can not have been embedded.
43
01/02/2021 13:50:38 0 1
bbc
He was nowhere near the edge. Rory was closer to the edge - but both were fine. Look at the comments other pros have made - they were more in line with Rory's actions.
83
01/02/2021 14:10:21 2 2
bbc
Erm - given that it was out of sight and you are not one of the two people who know for sure (Reed and the rules official who felt the indentation the ball sat in) your claim that it was "clearly not embedded" is just a figment of your imagination.
24
01/02/2021 13:39:22 1 8
bbc
This is why grassroots dont play golf. Stuck up clubs and officials rules from the arc class bias and general la de da attitude Im a member at this and that club. Last year a member where I play let out a volley of expletives when someone spoke as he hit his tee shot. The guy couldnt reach the end of the tee box on a good day he was there to be seen and heard obviously. lighten up !!
33
01/02/2021 13:45:44 2 1
bbc
Grassroot players have no idea of all the rules and nuances.
46
01/02/2021 13:51:14 1 1
bbc
Grassroots don't play golf? Memberships surged in 2020. They were growing in previous years, but surged bigtime last year.
25
01/02/2021 13:40:33 8 9
bbc
The Champion Golfer that everybody loves to hate did not break any rules

read the above out loud and then calm down !
40
01/02/2021 13:48:58 2 2
bbc
Spot on.
26
01/02/2021 13:41:27 5 5
bbc
This new rule, whereby you do not even have to consult you’re playing partners is just the tip of the iceberg in a catalogue of ridiculous rule changes. Yes, he won, but this win will always have an asterisk next to it. Silly thing is, he probably doesn’t need to try and gain these advantages, his short-game is off the charts-good!
39
01/02/2021 13:48:44 5 3
bbc
Utter rubbish.

Reed deserves his past reputation BUT he did nothing wrong here. In fact he went above and beyond what most pros have commented they would do - as also evidenced by what Rory did.

Past transgressions he deserves more scrutiny but this weekend he did nothing wrong.
74
01/02/2021 14:05:04 1 2
bbc
No it wont - the asterisk will be carried by those with the chips on their shoulders
27
01/02/2021 13:41:47 1 5
bbc
With the amount of money involved in golf it seems naive to have “rules” that rely on personal integrity and not realize that, at some time, they will be abused.

PGA should clear this up , they can
1) leave problem unchanged & accept future mistakes.
2) penalize reed 2 shots (won’t affect result) & clarify the rule
3) state reed acted in good faith & clarify the rule
4) change rule.
32
01/02/2021 13:44:58 4 2
bbc
The only way to do this would be to have a rules official with each player. Which is ludicrous.

He stuck to the rules and yet because he is an abrasive character people don't like it and castigate him.

Not like Tiger when he got the crowd to move a loose impediment, a boulder weighing several hundredweight!
72
01/02/2021 14:04:25 1 1
bbc
They did issue a clarification - which said that Reed and McIlroy did the correct thing and there is no issue.

When will people realise that this is just the media stirring things up for click bait.
101
01/02/2021 14:18:25 0 1
bbc
But don't penalise rory? He did the same thing, his ball bounced, you can't plug a ball from 6 inches high. He cheated.
28
Dys
bbc
The man's a cheat.

You don't lose that stain. He will always be dirty.
Removed
29
01/02/2021 13:43:51 0 1
bbc
"your ball is embedded only if it is in its own pitch-mark made as a result of your previous stroke and part of your ball is below the ground".

If a pitch mark is the mark left by a ball landing on the ground and your previous stroke is over when the ball comes to rest, I don't see why a ball that bounces in soggy ground can't have two (or more) pitch marks. Is there more to this rule?
30
mc
01/02/2021 13:43:59 4 3
bbc
he knew what he was doing and so do we. With his reputation it would be best to wait for official but he probably saw his pitch mark and walked over it first, no respect for this man at all
31
01/02/2021 13:44:12 38 4
bbc
Let's not forget Tiger Woods loose impediment interpretation when he asked for assistance from fans to move a boulder which resulted in an unobstructed swing and ball flight.
62
01/02/2021 13:57:00 36 5
bbc
Remember it well and a long list of questionable acts from him. But as the darling of the American media and USPGA he can do no wrong. Should have been kicked out of the Masters a few years back but escaped.
235
01/02/2021 16:34:40 6 2
bbc
You mustn't accuse Woods of cheating, the whole of golf will collapse. But yes, that was cheating and not his only indiscretion.
27
01/02/2021 13:41:47 1 5
bbc
With the amount of money involved in golf it seems naive to have “rules” that rely on personal integrity and not realize that, at some time, they will be abused.

PGA should clear this up , they can
1) leave problem unchanged & accept future mistakes.
2) penalize reed 2 shots (won’t affect result) & clarify the rule
3) state reed acted in good faith & clarify the rule
4) change rule.
32
01/02/2021 13:44:58 4 2
bbc
The only way to do this would be to have a rules official with each player. Which is ludicrous.

He stuck to the rules and yet because he is an abrasive character people don't like it and castigate him.

Not like Tiger when he got the crowd to move a loose impediment, a boulder weighing several hundredweight!
309
01/02/2021 18:05:17 0 0
bbc
They are paid enough - why not have your own rules official and a caddy? Fitness coach, psychologist, physio, 'quiet please' board holder and make an 8 seat Golf Kart compulsory (with extra points for customisation) - y'know y'all modernise the game
24
01/02/2021 13:39:22 1 8
bbc
This is why grassroots dont play golf. Stuck up clubs and officials rules from the arc class bias and general la de da attitude Im a member at this and that club. Last year a member where I play let out a volley of expletives when someone spoke as he hit his tee shot. The guy couldnt reach the end of the tee box on a good day he was there to be seen and heard obviously. lighten up !!
33
01/02/2021 13:45:44 2 1
bbc
Grassroot players have no idea of all the rules and nuances.
34
01/02/2021 13:46:15 55 9
bbc
Once a cheat, rightly or wrongly, you are tarred with this for the rest of your life. Reed has 'history' and will never lose the tag.
70
01/02/2021 14:02:30 22 79
bbc
...and that is the problem with golf. Bigoted to the core.
261
01/02/2021 17:07:44 2 12
bbc
Golf fans live in the 1950s hence the tweed and slacks.
287
01/02/2021 17:39:10 4 3
bbc
Golf is gentleman's game and if you have to cheat it says a lot about your character in life in general. I know he didn't cheat by the letter of the law but defo a grey area in the way he did it.
35
01/02/2021 13:46:51 3 3
bbc
Given his previous, he should have called over the official and got a ruling. Then he could be seen to be abiding by the rules. Whether it bounced or not, he could not see it and has to rely on the ball spotter and the rules official, THEN pick it up once a ruling has been made.
68
01/02/2021 14:01:05 2 2
bbc
Do you mean Reed or McIlroy? If Reed, he did - the marshal and others said it didnt bounce. Are they all in the big conspiracy as well?
36
01/02/2021 13:47:49 3 2
bbc
The rules are there to protect everyone. You cannot choose which ones to use and which ones not to use depending on the player concerned.

Reed dis exactly what was allowed, so no issues, as did McIlroy. So are we going to call him a cheat as well?

How many amateurs will call for a rules official to come out when in a similar situation? NONE.
37
01/02/2021 13:47:58 2 3
bbc
a storm in a tea cup!
19
01/02/2021 13:37:31 18 4
bbc
For me The Rules Committee left themselves wide open to exploitation...
38
01/02/2021 13:48:41 1 7
bbc
Why, they ALL abode by the Rules.
143
01/02/2021 14:57:20 0 2
bbc
Abide
26
01/02/2021 13:41:27 5 5
bbc
This new rule, whereby you do not even have to consult you’re playing partners is just the tip of the iceberg in a catalogue of ridiculous rule changes. Yes, he won, but this win will always have an asterisk next to it. Silly thing is, he probably doesn’t need to try and gain these advantages, his short-game is off the charts-good!
39
01/02/2021 13:48:44 5 3
bbc
Utter rubbish.

Reed deserves his past reputation BUT he did nothing wrong here. In fact he went above and beyond what most pros have commented they would do - as also evidenced by what Rory did.

Past transgressions he deserves more scrutiny but this weekend he did nothing wrong.
176
01/02/2021 15:29:47 1 1
bbc
So why are his fellow pro’s (Schauffele’s comments) questioning what he did?
Difference is Mcilroy notified one of his playing partners beforehand. PR marked/picked the ball up of his own accord. Clearly don’t know what you’re talking about if you think it’s ok to just mark you’re ball without at least consulting a playing partner. As a pro, he has an obligation to protect his fellow competitors!
25
01/02/2021 13:40:33 8 9
bbc
The Champion Golfer that everybody loves to hate did not break any rules

read the above out loud and then calm down !
40
01/02/2021 13:48:58 2 2
bbc
Spot on.
41
01/02/2021 13:49:01 5 5
bbc
I've never seen a ball plugged after a second bounce, would'nt look plugged, would'nt feel plugged, especially in grass. Both cheated to gain advantage.
49
01/02/2021 13:52:04 3 7
bbc
I have. But then I have played far more than you and at a much higher level.
10
DLY
01/02/2021 13:26:50 2 5
bbc
Shame really as the game needs some edgy characters - but not cheats. VJ Singh still suffers from a reputation and that was from his amateur career - amongst the players, they do not forget and word will spread rapidly. Personally I like the water off a duck's back attitude he has, especially for RC but this is a continuing theme for Reed.
42
01/02/2021 13:49:38 2 1
bbc
So using your logic, it is Fine to call McIlroy a cheat as well?
87
DLY
01/02/2021 14:11:42 0 1
bbc
Where is the logic that implied that in my comment? Both made a similar call but RM doesn't have a reputation - as Carter says in his article. My point is that there are far too many boring players and it's enjoyable (for me) when there's a bit of edge in the game.
23
01/02/2021 13:38:34 6 4
bbc
Reed was very close to the edge on the rules but has been exonerated by the ruling body so I guess we have to accept that. Within the rules yes, within the spirit - questionable! No one seems to have questioned the rules official as, clearly, the ball was not embedded. I think Rory has a question to answer too as his ball also can not have been embedded.
43
01/02/2021 13:50:38 0 1
bbc
He was nowhere near the edge. Rory was closer to the edge - but both were fine. Look at the comments other pros have made - they were more in line with Rory's actions.
5
01/02/2021 13:20:16 12 15
bbc
Nothing really to say is there. The man's a devious cheat. He needs to be reprimanded for the good of the game.
44
01/02/2021 13:50:52 5 2
bbc
Yes reprimand him for sticking to the Rules.

You'd better do the same to McIlroy as he did the same, as probably did a large number of players in this and every tournament since the rules were clarified
45
01/02/2021 13:51:09 7 7
bbc
Everything that is wrong with golf, he has done nothing wrong whatsoever but the sore losers can't wait to chuck him under the bus, pathetic.
24
01/02/2021 13:39:22 1 8
bbc
This is why grassroots dont play golf. Stuck up clubs and officials rules from the arc class bias and general la de da attitude Im a member at this and that club. Last year a member where I play let out a volley of expletives when someone spoke as he hit his tee shot. The guy couldnt reach the end of the tee box on a good day he was there to be seen and heard obviously. lighten up !!
46
01/02/2021 13:51:14 1 1
bbc
Grassroots don't play golf? Memberships surged in 2020. They were growing in previous years, but surged bigtime last year.
17
01/02/2021 13:36:54 112 27
bbc
We golfers know when a ball in plugged or not, and if that ball bounced up about a foot, how can it possibly be plugged when it fell back from about a foot? Reed knew it wasn't plugged, yes deep down in the grass but not plugged. The rules official got it wrong but I think he was influenced by Reed.
47
01/02/2021 13:51:15 24 115
bbc
You haven't played much it seems.
387
01/02/2021 20:05:34 1 3
bbc
Are you an American by any chance... we can't have an American being criticised/scrutinised? However; it's perfectly 'fine' for Americans to
'lambast' the rest of the world, pathetic really.
446
Ed
01/02/2021 22:00:04 0 0
bbc
No, you haven't Numpty
48
01/02/2021 13:51:23 1 1
bbc
I wouldn't defend Reed at all in this situation, but the wording of the article seems to suggest he wasn't allowed to clean the ball. If it was embedded, he is allowed to clean it.
41
01/02/2021 13:49:01 5 5
bbc
I've never seen a ball plugged after a second bounce, would'nt look plugged, would'nt feel plugged, especially in grass. Both cheated to gain advantage.
49
01/02/2021 13:52:04 3 7
bbc
I have. But then I have played far more than you and at a much higher level.
50
01/02/2021 13:52:33 1 3
bbc
our game is about integrity-and a whole lot of dosh.
17
01/02/2021 13:36:54 112 27
bbc
We golfers know when a ball in plugged or not, and if that ball bounced up about a foot, how can it possibly be plugged when it fell back from about a foot? Reed knew it wasn't plugged, yes deep down in the grass but not plugged. The rules official got it wrong but I think he was influenced by Reed.
51
01/02/2021 13:52:37 12 16
bbc
The rules don't say 'plugged' they say 'embedded' which is ANY part of the ball below the ground. If the ground is soggy enough, you could PLACE it on the ground and it would sink. I don't know if it was embedded, neither do you. The rules official said it was. Should be the end of the story.
467
01/02/2021 22:29:18 0 0
bbc
Rubbish..exploiting the rules. The official was confused.
52
01/02/2021 13:52:52 15 2
bbc
Having watched this, and his interview, my take on it is that he did everything by the rules, even asking the spotter, so the rest is pure conjecture...if you look hard enough for something, you will probably find it. BUT....at my club, in my 4-ball, if in doubt YOU PLAY IT AS IT LIES. Why does this not apply to tour pros, who have a far better chance of executing the shot than we do anyway?
53
01/02/2021 13:53:27 5 1
bbc
I'm not a fan of Reed, and it's pretty obvious that his PGA colleagues are diving on the opportunity to bury him here.

But I prefer the idea of players making calls on the course and getting on with the game, like we do, rather than the game grinding to a halt every time a player needs to apply a simple rule. Yes, there will be errors, but better to keep the game moving.
174
01/02/2021 15:29:30 2 1
bbc
,,, they're probably more annoyed he won by five strokes.
3
01/02/2021 13:18:11 81 11
bbc
I guess the key thing here is that the ball spotter allegedly said they didn't "see it" bounce which is not the same as saying "it didn't bounce". With that element of doubt Reed should have waited for an official. If he had asked for the referee before he moved the ball that would have been the correct procedure under the circumstances.
54
01/02/2021 13:53:32 44 77
bbc
Why wait? The Rules are clear that he doesn't have to.

It isn't up to the player to make new rules up as he goes around the course.

When Joe Bloggs is out on his Sunday Medal, will he call for a Rules Official?

One set of rules for ALL golfers. Unless Local Rules are in place that is.

Live with it. Don't let your personal prejudices cloud the scenario. Or call McIlroy out as a cheat too.
140
01/02/2021 14:55:34 15 4
bbc
Reed wasn't playing a Sunday medal. It was a tour event.
158
01/02/2021 15:10:58 15 4
bbc
No we wouldn’t call out a Referee in our monthly medal...what we all do...or should do, is ask our marker, if there’s a doubt then we play it as it lies, and then ask the question of the handicap secretary when we hand the card in. Which is exactly what McIlroy did and Reed didn’t. The ball spotter isn’t an official or a marker of Reeds card...they’re there as volunteers helping find balls!
377
01/02/2021 19:49:17 3 2
bbc
Patrick Reed isn't Joe Bloggs. Joe Bloggs doesn't have 20 rule officals on course.
496
02/02/2021 01:28:21 0 0
bbc
He would call one or both of the three ball to check it.
55
01/02/2021 13:53:47 4 5
bbc
I don't see what the issue is here. He did it in the rules, asked a nearby spotter if they had seen the ball bounce and they said no. It is difficult...it is a small ball travelling at speed often over 200 yards into thick rough. It is difficult to see. He even had an official come out to him. Mountain out of a molehill. Rory did it....Reed did it. End of story.
56
01/02/2021 13:53:47 7 4
bbc
For me the key is that Reed picked up his ball to see IF his ball was plugged and then he judged that it had. However, TV clearly showed the ball had bounced and therefore could and would not have plugged. So how can he have determined the ball was below ground level? He should have carefully lifted it an inch or two, seen it was not plugged, and replaced it.
444
01/02/2021 21:59:11 0 0
bbc
So we will have to have cameras for every player on the course to ensure nobody is advantaged over, or disadvantaged by the lack of them. Then add in the time to get the video reviewed and we could be in for 10 hour rounds.

What a dozy comment.
57
01/02/2021 13:54:03 2 1
bbc
Not haven't played for a while, I hadn't heard of this new rule about lifting plugged balls. Does this apply in bunkers also? (Since that's where I seem to spend most time on a golf course)
65
01/02/2021 13:57:38 2 1
bbc
Sadly not!
58
01/02/2021 13:54:03 4 6
bbc
It's the rule that's at fault, not Patrick Reed who is being vilified as an anti establishment figure. You don't get to pick out of a plugged lie in a bunker or to take relief from a water hazard. If you put the ball into wet ground off the fairway, your only options should be to play as it lies of take relief with a penalty stroke.
63
01/02/2021 13:57:21 2 1
bbc
But you are NOT required to do that, according to the rules.
81
01/02/2021 14:09:51 1 1
bbc
relief from casual water applies anywhere on the course outside a water hazard ,not just on the fairway.
17
01/02/2021 13:36:54 112 27
bbc
We golfers know when a ball in plugged or not, and if that ball bounced up about a foot, how can it possibly be plugged when it fell back from about a foot? Reed knew it wasn't plugged, yes deep down in the grass but not plugged. The rules official got it wrong but I think he was influenced by Reed.
59
01/02/2021 13:55:56 8 6
bbc
But NOBODY knew it bounced!
114
01/02/2021 14:29:35 10 3
bbc
There is the evidence of the TV coverage, showing clearly that it did indeed bounce.
60
01/02/2021 13:56:00 21 3
bbc
Having watched a 4 minute video of the incident (thank you ESPN), his behaviour was a bit odd.

He was told by the spotter she hadn't seen it bounce, said to playing partners he was going to check it and then marked and picked up the ball pretty quickly. He then called the official who checked the spot and said he felt a lip so the drop was fine. He was able to drop in a much nicer spot of grass
481
01/02/2021 23:03:58 8 2
bbc
He is then interviewed and misquoted the spotter by saying she said it hadn’t bounced instead of didn’t know. He then went on to misquote the adjudicator as well - who was patently in awe of him! A Trumpster !
61
01/02/2021 13:56:01 4 2
bbc
Why don't the authorities introduce something like VAR? That's worked a treat!
89
01/02/2021 14:12:16 3 3
bbc
The officials have walkie talkies and can ask for TV coverage to be reviewed so they'd have seen both balls bounced, Reed and rory cheated there isn't really much debate after seeing both balls bounce.
31
01/02/2021 13:44:12 38 4
bbc
Let's not forget Tiger Woods loose impediment interpretation when he asked for assistance from fans to move a boulder which resulted in an unobstructed swing and ball flight.
62
01/02/2021 13:57:00 36 5
bbc
Remember it well and a long list of questionable acts from him. But as the darling of the American media and USPGA he can do no wrong. Should have been kicked out of the Masters a few years back but escaped.
58
01/02/2021 13:54:03 4 6
bbc
It's the rule that's at fault, not Patrick Reed who is being vilified as an anti establishment figure. You don't get to pick out of a plugged lie in a bunker or to take relief from a water hazard. If you put the ball into wet ground off the fairway, your only options should be to play as it lies of take relief with a penalty stroke.
63
01/02/2021 13:57:21 2 1
bbc
But you are NOT required to do that, according to the rules.
64
01/02/2021 13:57:30 7 4
bbc
It's all very well saying that he followed the rules IF he believed it was embedded. My issues are Did it actually break ground and did he truly believe that? It fell from about 1 foot high into lengthy grass so why would it look embedded. And if he really was convinced it had broken ground, why not let the official see it before lifting it. He was calling him over anyway.
57
01/02/2021 13:54:03 2 1
bbc
Not haven't played for a while, I hadn't heard of this new rule about lifting plugged balls. Does this apply in bunkers also? (Since that's where I seem to spend most time on a golf course)
65
01/02/2021 13:57:38 2 1
bbc
Sadly not!
66
01/02/2021 13:58:45 6 5
bbc
Unfortunately Iain Carter displays the behaviours of all that is wrong with golf. The nasty bigotry that demonises people because they dont follow the norm. Usually it is women or people with the "wrong" clothes who tare the victims. Today it is Reed, and Carter desperately tries to engender hatred towards him.

If Caters piece was a HYS comment it'd be moderated out
75
01/02/2021 14:06:15 3 4
bbc
nonsense Reed gets what he deserves
17
01/02/2021 13:36:54 112 27
bbc
We golfers know when a ball in plugged or not, and if that ball bounced up about a foot, how can it possibly be plugged when it fell back from about a foot? Reed knew it wasn't plugged, yes deep down in the grass but not plugged. The rules official got it wrong but I think he was influenced by Reed.
67
wb1
01/02/2021 13:58:50 14 8
bbc
Spot on ... everyone knows it wasn't plugged. If a ball is embedded it's obvious to any "golfer". Sad that a top tour pro can't or chooses not to tell the difference?!
214
01/02/2021 16:10:21 4 3
bbc
It's not a case of plugged, it's a case of is it slightly below the surface level hence they say it broke the ground in both cases as dirt was on the ball. They may be incorrect in their drops but your adding something in which isn't part of the rules.
35
01/02/2021 13:46:51 3 3
bbc
Given his previous, he should have called over the official and got a ruling. Then he could be seen to be abiding by the rules. Whether it bounced or not, he could not see it and has to rely on the ball spotter and the rules official, THEN pick it up once a ruling has been made.
68
01/02/2021 14:01:05 2 2
bbc
Do you mean Reed or McIlroy? If Reed, he did - the marshal and others said it didnt bounce. Are they all in the big conspiracy as well?
69
01/02/2021 14:02:12 6 6
bbc
His ball was very deeply buried considering it had bounced and given the ball spotter's assurance that it hadn't bounced, Reed probably felt he was safe and genuinely thought it had plugged. The rules official then inspected the lie forensically and declared that the ball was lying in an indentation which meant a free drop (whether it had bounced or not). Reed is more appreciated in the UK.
90
01/02/2021 14:12:47 7 1
bbc
'the ball was lying in an indentation which meant a free drop'. That's not correct, the rules say "your ball is embedded only if it is in its own pitch-mark made as a result of your previous stroke". It's not a free drop if it rolls into an existing mark. It's just tough luck.
100
01/02/2021 14:17:58 3 2
bbc
The ball has to be lying in an impression that it created on landing, for a free drop. If it bounces and rolls into another indentation, it isn't a free drop.
34
01/02/2021 13:46:15 55 9
bbc
Once a cheat, rightly or wrongly, you are tarred with this for the rest of your life. Reed has 'history' and will never lose the tag.
70
01/02/2021 14:02:30 22 79
bbc
...and that is the problem with golf. Bigoted to the core.
148
01/02/2021 15:00:20 18 6
bbc
No it is a game where the individual golfer decides whether to play by the rules or cheat.

Reed cheated previously of his own volition because he thought he could get away with it.

He is forever now a cheat.
180
01/02/2021 15:31:41 11 2
bbc
prejudiced not bigoted - try learning the difference. Bigotry is totally unjustified prejudice.
Higher motor insurance premiums for a driver with a long accient record is prejudice; higher motor insurance premiums for a driver because you don't like his parent's choice of Christian names is bigotry.
320
01/02/2021 18:18:32 5 0
bbc
What a ridiculous comment !
441
01/02/2021 21:55:14 1 0
bbc
What? Are you suggesting that if your a golfer you must be a bigot?
71
01/02/2021 14:03:09 4 8
bbc
What a time English golf is in and has it ever happened before?

During the course of 3 massive tourneys we have had 4 English Champs.

Westy and Fitzy winning on the same day then Hatton wiping the floor with MclLRoy then Casey giving Bob an almighty beating.

The ball was plugged. Pat Reed did everything right. Verdict - PLAY ON which he did, in great style too.

73 and 15th? LOL
92
01/02/2021 14:13:38 3 2
bbc
Pity Victor faded so badly when he had a chance to win.
97
01/02/2021 14:15:29 3 3
bbc
Apart from Reed is a cheat that’s been caught before whereas Rory hasn’t.

LOL.
27
01/02/2021 13:41:47 1 5
bbc
With the amount of money involved in golf it seems naive to have “rules” that rely on personal integrity and not realize that, at some time, they will be abused.

PGA should clear this up , they can
1) leave problem unchanged & accept future mistakes.
2) penalize reed 2 shots (won’t affect result) & clarify the rule
3) state reed acted in good faith & clarify the rule
4) change rule.
72
01/02/2021 14:04:25 1 1
bbc
They did issue a clarification - which said that Reed and McIlroy did the correct thing and there is no issue.

When will people realise that this is just the media stirring things up for click bait.
73
01/02/2021 14:04:48 5 5
bbc
Just want to remind people critsing Reed here, please bear in mind McIlroy did exactly the same thing.
146
01/02/2021 14:58:23 1 2
bbc
Not quite. Picked the ball up
26
01/02/2021 13:41:27 5 5
bbc
This new rule, whereby you do not even have to consult you’re playing partners is just the tip of the iceberg in a catalogue of ridiculous rule changes. Yes, he won, but this win will always have an asterisk next to it. Silly thing is, he probably doesn’t need to try and gain these advantages, his short-game is off the charts-good!
74
01/02/2021 14:05:04 1 2
bbc
No it wont - the asterisk will be carried by those with the chips on their shoulders
178
01/02/2021 15:30:34 1 1
bbc
Do you just pick you’re ball up when you fancy a better lie?
66
01/02/2021 13:58:45 6 5
bbc
Unfortunately Iain Carter displays the behaviours of all that is wrong with golf. The nasty bigotry that demonises people because they dont follow the norm. Usually it is women or people with the "wrong" clothes who tare the victims. Today it is Reed, and Carter desperately tries to engender hatred towards him.

If Caters piece was a HYS comment it'd be moderated out
75
01/02/2021 14:06:15 3 4
bbc
nonsense Reed gets what he deserves
76
01/02/2021 14:07:02 1 3
bbc
The problem with golf is that there too many ambiguous rules, make the game simpler, by the way get rid of caddies helping the players on distance , club selection and reading greens, would speed up golf enormously
77
01/02/2021 14:07:18 4 6
bbc
When will people realise that this is just the media stirring things up for click bait. They do it all the time - its their little game of creating social division by setting people off against each other.
78
01/02/2021 14:08:15 0 2
bbc
Reed picked his ball up (without marking it) approximately 18” from the adjacent concrete path - but then directed the rules official to inspect a ‘hole’ approximately 36” from the path! He then took his relief from the wrong spot.
79
01/02/2021 14:09:19 8 6
bbc
Trial by tv, nothing wrong here, golf is the most honest of sports, another naff report from the BBC
116
01/02/2021 14:29:56 3 5
bbc
When Tiger's not playing they need to find something to talk about.
80
01/02/2021 14:09:20 7 3
bbc
You can tell when a ball is embedded. you may need to lift the ball to tell; but you can tell. If the rules official looked at the 'indentation' and said it was embedded - it was. It can be embedded from a 300 yard drive or a 2 foot bounce if the ground is soft enough.
58
01/02/2021 13:54:03 4 6
bbc
It's the rule that's at fault, not Patrick Reed who is being vilified as an anti establishment figure. You don't get to pick out of a plugged lie in a bunker or to take relief from a water hazard. If you put the ball into wet ground off the fairway, your only options should be to play as it lies of take relief with a penalty stroke.
81
01/02/2021 14:09:51 1 1
bbc
relief from casual water applies anywhere on the course outside a water hazard ,not just on the fairway.
82
01/02/2021 14:10:17 6 3
bbc
I am not particularly a fan of Reed but think that part of the reason that Reed has a "questionable reputation" is that he does not trust the media and is not open to them, in contrast to Rory etc who love the attention. Reed could have handled the situation better, but didn't break the rules. It seems to me like he mostly needs to get more media savvy and realise how things will be played.
124
01/02/2021 14:32:30 6 2
bbc
The media hated Faldo for that reason.

If a player is not interested in all the media stuff, they're gonna get that negative reputation if their name's not Tiger Woods.
177
01/02/2021 15:30:05 1 1
bbc
It's not just down to being media savvy. That's not why his fellow professionals on the PGA tour don't like him. Keep thinking.
222
01/02/2021 16:21:15 0 1
bbc
He has a questionable reputation because he has a history of cheating
23
01/02/2021 13:38:34 6 4
bbc
Reed was very close to the edge on the rules but has been exonerated by the ruling body so I guess we have to accept that. Within the rules yes, within the spirit - questionable! No one seems to have questioned the rules official as, clearly, the ball was not embedded. I think Rory has a question to answer too as his ball also can not have been embedded.
83
01/02/2021 14:10:21 2 2
bbc
Erm - given that it was out of sight and you are not one of the two people who know for sure (Reed and the rules official who felt the indentation the ball sat in) your claim that it was "clearly not embedded" is just a figment of your imagination.
84
01/02/2021 14:10:29 7 5
bbc
Reed and rory both cheated, as clear as day! Both balls bounced so embedded is out, rory's nestled into long grass, unfortunately these pampered millionaires want it every way now. Long grass is now embedded? Wow someone tell Bryson! He wins every week going forward then.
85
01/02/2021 14:11:08 2 5
bbc
Has anyone seen their ball bounce into a bunker only to get there and find it partially embedded - just saying..........
86
01/02/2021 14:11:09 7 7
bbc
When told by the ball spotter that she hadn’t seen it bounce, he followed to rules guidance. It is this sort of thing that puts people off golf, he didn’t break any rules and others get their knickers in a twist.
I joined my club in 1992 , back then , you had to wear a tie in the bar after 7pm unless the captain was present and gave permission not to. Utter madness.
104
01/02/2021 14:23:28 5 2
bbc
Not quite clear how the rule about wearing a tie in the bar after 7 pm relates to the rules of golf.
118
01/02/2021 14:30:30 5 2
bbc
If the "tie in the bar" was one of the club's traditions which identifies it as being a "club" and not just a random collection of people, who are you to say it is "madness"?
171
01/02/2021 15:27:16 2 1
bbc
If you had such a problem with the stuffiness of the club that you joined, why did you join? Why not join a club that suited you better?
42
01/02/2021 13:49:38 2 1
bbc
So using your logic, it is Fine to call McIlroy a cheat as well?
87
DLY
01/02/2021 14:11:42 0 1
bbc
Where is the logic that implied that in my comment? Both made a similar call but RM doesn't have a reputation - as Carter says in his article. My point is that there are far too many boring players and it's enjoyable (for me) when there's a bit of edge in the game.
88
01/02/2021 14:12:14 3 8
bbc
Reed should be kicked off the tour, this is the 3rd time he has been caught on camera, how many times has he done it when nobody is about
61
01/02/2021 13:56:01 4 2
bbc
Why don't the authorities introduce something like VAR? That's worked a treat!
89
01/02/2021 14:12:16 3 3
bbc
The officials have walkie talkies and can ask for TV coverage to be reviewed so they'd have seen both balls bounced, Reed and rory cheated there isn't really much debate after seeing both balls bounce.
69
01/02/2021 14:02:12 6 6
bbc
His ball was very deeply buried considering it had bounced and given the ball spotter's assurance that it hadn't bounced, Reed probably felt he was safe and genuinely thought it had plugged. The rules official then inspected the lie forensically and declared that the ball was lying in an indentation which meant a free drop (whether it had bounced or not). Reed is more appreciated in the UK.
90
01/02/2021 14:12:47 7 1
bbc
'the ball was lying in an indentation which meant a free drop'. That's not correct, the rules say "your ball is embedded only if it is in its own pitch-mark made as a result of your previous stroke". It's not a free drop if it rolls into an existing mark. It's just tough luck.
192
01/02/2021 15:40:43 0 3
bbc
These was no chance of any roll in that deep rough after a bounce. If it was in an indentation it was probably self-made, second bounce or not. I do think it's a stretch but there only has to be a slight indentation for it to be a plugged ball and the course had been hit by heavy rain and hail, see: https://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/videos/rules/rules-of-golf-plugged-lie
91
01/02/2021 14:13:05 3 2
bbc
A player used a homophobic word last week, and another player took a questionable drop this week. How much scandal can the game of golf take??
71
01/02/2021 14:03:09 4 8
bbc
What a time English golf is in and has it ever happened before?

During the course of 3 massive tourneys we have had 4 English Champs.

Westy and Fitzy winning on the same day then Hatton wiping the floor with MclLRoy then Casey giving Bob an almighty beating.

The ball was plugged. Pat Reed did everything right. Verdict - PLAY ON which he did, in great style too.

73 and 15th? LOL
92
01/02/2021 14:13:38 3 2
bbc
Pity Victor faded so badly when he had a chance to win.
105
01/02/2021 14:23:49 1 5
bbc
Yes Viktor dropped from 2nd to tied 2nd.
Pat Reed really is Captain America?
His short game his phenomenal?
93
gdj
01/02/2021 14:13:48 3 3
bbc
Patrick did nothing wrong, as stated by the PGA ref and its the media that just wants to make something out of it. Get of his back and report on the quality of his golf.
94
01/02/2021 14:14:41 19 3
bbc
He has a poor "track record" and given a number of pro's felt he was wrong regardless of rules officials statements that is worrying.... why not wait for official to confirm embedded? Then no room for doubt, otherwise the "critics" could say he "created" dent when recovering ball so official would see - how many times does a bounce leave an indent? His fellow pros including Zander felt same!
169
01/02/2021 15:24:50 11 5
bbc
It was in the rough and as a pro golfer myself, I would accept the consequences and played the ball as it was. I understand the rulings for poor course conditions, but sometimes, making a rule to suit you is poor practice.
221
01/02/2021 16:21:05 0 0
bbc
Depends on the softness of the ground or if a burrowing animal had disturbed the surface. Both give rise to the possibility
325
01/02/2021 18:20:54 0 0
bbc
Rory didn’t call a rules official and his ball bounced.
589
02/02/2021 15:52:15 0 0
bbc
Mcilroy did not even call rule official over when he had sam problem. One rule for everyone
95
01/02/2021 14:15:03 4 2
bbc
He spent so long kneeling over struggling to make a round impression with his thumb.
96
01/02/2021 14:15:21 7 4
bbc
Reed has a lot of bottle and unlike Mcilroy thrives under pressure. There has however been far too many cases of dodgy behaviour from Reed for there to be nothing in it. It first came to the attention of the golf authorities while he was at college, when even his own teammates called him out for cheating.
144
01/02/2021 14:57:26 3 1
bbc
It was theft that he got kicked out of his Uni programme for, rather than cheating.
330
01/02/2021 18:27:38 0 0
bbc
There was only one other incident that infringe the rules that I know of are can you tell me.
71
01/02/2021 14:03:09 4 8
bbc
What a time English golf is in and has it ever happened before?

During the course of 3 massive tourneys we have had 4 English Champs.

Westy and Fitzy winning on the same day then Hatton wiping the floor with MclLRoy then Casey giving Bob an almighty beating.

The ball was plugged. Pat Reed did everything right. Verdict - PLAY ON which he did, in great style too.

73 and 15th? LOL
97
01/02/2021 14:15:29 3 3
bbc
Apart from Reed is a cheat that’s been caught before whereas Rory hasn’t.

LOL.
98
01/02/2021 14:15:56 2 2
bbc
Once a cheat always a cheat. Reed has not integrity or respect for the game.
99
01/02/2021 14:16:01 6 4
bbc
It was palming the ball and not replacing it in the alleged indentation, then placing the ball several feet away! Why not place the ball back where it was and then let official make decision? The fact he moved it means the official may not have been checking Reeds own ball indent! Then to show no remorse/sportsmanship at all when he was shown that it actually BOUNCED FORWARD on impact!!
69
01/02/2021 14:02:12 6 6
bbc
His ball was very deeply buried considering it had bounced and given the ball spotter's assurance that it hadn't bounced, Reed probably felt he was safe and genuinely thought it had plugged. The rules official then inspected the lie forensically and declared that the ball was lying in an indentation which meant a free drop (whether it had bounced or not). Reed is more appreciated in the UK.
100
01/02/2021 14:17:58 3 2
bbc
The ball has to be lying in an impression that it created on landing, for a free drop. If it bounces and rolls into another indentation, it isn't a free drop.