Lost school time 'could cost pupils £40,000 in earnings'
01/02/2021
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news
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education
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Institute for Fiscal Studies warns the "long-run costs" of the pandemic will hit children disproportionately.
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Nimrod Ping
01/02/2021 10:01:20
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bbc
May, could, might, perhaps...etc. Please report news, not speculation.
Despite the uncertainty they’re sure the poorest will suffer the most?
Surely the poorest wouldn’t be earning anyway - so won’t be any worse off?
Surely the poorest wouldn’t be earning anyway - so won’t be any worse off?
Ultimately this has been proven before. Here is just one example. http://barrett.dyson.cornell.edu/NEUDC/paper_179.pdf
And it is not just monetary effects either. Health as well.
And it is not just monetary effects either. Health as well.
If you don't want speculation, perhaps news websites aren't for you. News, but it's nature, it largely speculation.
I'll chuck a few more "coulds" into the equation - it could make children more self dependent, it could make parents more supportive, not falling back on "it is the school's job" all the time and it could recognised when exam time comes around with adjustments in the grading. We could also find a single parent somewhere who says "my kids have flourished during lockdown" but that's not news.
This is the BBC. No news, just speculation.
Have you noticed how half the news headlines on here end with a question mark Facts are followed by a full stop.
Have you noticed how half the news headlines on here end with a question mark Facts are followed by a full stop.
You are talking about verifiable facts which takes a longer time in most cases .
That isn't possible in the vast majority of News stories by its very nature. ie its News.
It would be somewhat pointless to have a headline then ' can you hang on a bit for the story while we check it out'.
As long as its qualified in the article its fine and lo and behold it is
That isn't possible in the vast majority of News stories by its very nature. ie its News.
It would be somewhat pointless to have a headline then ' can you hang on a bit for the story while we check it out'.
As long as its qualified in the article its fine and lo and behold it is
Someone has produced this and you're asking for it not to be reported. You don't believe in a free press? As this is talking about the future, then of course it is "may, could, might" - you can't say with certainty what will happen in the future. The point of this is to try to plan for a better outcome.
" the Institute for Fiscal Studies said"
They reported on what someone said, that's not speculation, it happened.
They reported on what someone said, that's not speculation, it happened.
The News:
Some people did some thinking and produced some findings, predictions, and an assessment of the impact. As it refers to the future, it is not a historical fact yet.
Please troll elsewhere.
Some people did some thinking and produced some findings, predictions, and an assessment of the impact. As it refers to the future, it is not a historical fact yet.
Please troll elsewhere.
Personally I would say 40k is a bit light
I'd say that an income loss of only 1k pa would be a let off- I lost far more than that after just 2008
Obviously you don't think it is worth a discussion, presumably as one of the I'm-all -right-jack richest pensioners ever, but you might want to talk to your kids......
I'd say that an income loss of only 1k pa would be a let off- I lost far more than that after just 2008
Obviously you don't think it is worth a discussion, presumably as one of the I'm-all -right-jack richest pensioners ever, but you might want to talk to your kids......
I'm not sure that figure is correct, but estimating is always challenging.
If correct though it highlights that kids should really just repeat a year as 1 year of lost earnings would on average be less than 40,000 (would it not)
If correct though it highlights that kids should really just repeat a year as 1 year of lost earnings would on average be less than 40,000 (would it not)
kids in households , where parents don't care , will have just had 6 months off school. They will never make it up.
And therein lies the problem that will never go away - parents who are unable, for whatever reason, to parent their children properly. Money should be invested on those who genuinely deserve the support, and this means sorting out the line used to describe ‘poverty’ - those on free school meals who cannot be a*sed to pick stuff up from school and go to McDonalds because it’s easier don’t count!
Kids in households where both parents work?
Depends. If the teachers had already done a decent job of exciting interest the may have watched the royal institution educational videos and tried experiments and be far ahead of where school would get them. My daughter is that's for sure. An 8 year old who can explain solid liquid gas, hydraulics, how a rocket works demo them and a number of other things, nothing would have happened at schiol
A year off. Maybe longer.
Whether the parents care or not is not quite right. We can care all we like, but cannot replace a decent education, partly because we are not skilled, trained, and do not have access to educational resources. That's why we need teachers and schools.
Whether the parents care or not is not quite right. We can care all we like, but cannot replace a decent education, partly because we are not skilled, trained, and do not have access to educational resources. That's why we need teachers and schools.
The way to tackle that is investment to promote growth, give more and better opportunities to develop skills and provide better opportunities earlier in their careers.
Endless growth is not possible; nor is it sustainable. The way to tackle things is to stop assigning arbitrary, invented monetary values to everything and think about the wider picture.
"A report suggests ..." What a load of speculative aged shoe repairers.
We are all about that much in debt.
£2trn / population is about £38,000 each.
£2trn / population is about £38,000 each.
Your figure, while probably correct, shows the utter uselessness of "statistics."
Neither my wife nor I owe anyone any money at all, for instance, so statistically out there is someone who owes £104,000 - their own £38 K and "ours"!
Like so many "facts", figures and percentages, the only response that can properly be applied is "Yes, so you say, but so what?"
Neither my wife nor I owe anyone any money at all, for instance, so statistically out there is someone who owes £104,000 - their own £38 K and "ours"!
Like so many "facts", figures and percentages, the only response that can properly be applied is "Yes, so you say, but so what?"
Better than being dead maybe dunno close call.
Pure guesswork. Nobody knows what the effects will be.
Impossible to quantify. I don't actually envisage much jobs will be around for the particularly young children when they leave school.
We'll be up to our waist in Black Mirror territory by then.
We'll be up to our waist in Black Mirror territory by then.
On line teaching is a fantasy that needs to be called out now
Schools are providing lessons where all the pupils are blanked screens because this is a "safeguarding" issue
Apparently unions are not happy that teachers might see something that is "reportable" going on the background and teachers aren't responsible for that
What really happens is no pupils are "present" just logged on
Schools are providing lessons where all the pupils are blanked screens because this is a "safeguarding" issue
Apparently unions are not happy that teachers might see something that is "reportable" going on the background and teachers aren't responsible for that
What really happens is no pupils are "present" just logged on
Add to that, sending emails at 7pm to inform of on line lessons the next day, and yes most are recorded or 1 way download type, so very little interaction - it's sort of semi live lessons. Not blaming the teachers as I know they are trying hard, but between poor home equipment/safeguarding/school IT capability and classroom teaching the 40% still going..on line is very much a stop gap at best!
Any effects are likely to be concentrated among children from disadvantaged backgrounds, the Institute for Fiscal Studies said.
Who, as reported by the BBC are mainly white males.
Who, as reported by the BBC are mainly white males.
And what does race or colour have to do with it , Take it you not for a poor northern town where their is shedload of poor white people.
BBC....what a joke! No HYS on the EU vaccine debacle or Article 16 re NI.
Your pro EU stance has never been so apparent! Removed
Your pro EU stance has never been so apparent! Removed
Not always a defender of the BBC but HYS was open on this for much of the weekend.
Indeed BBC and especially Katie Adler have been more than forthright on EU difficulties with this.
Indeed BBC and especially Katie Adler have been more than forthright on EU difficulties with this.
yes, need to discus. Problem with Boris ordering 20 doses for each of the population so as to exclude the rest of the world... Dictator
The only rhetoric you're ever going to see in political news on here, from now until god knows when, is UK vs EU. I thought we were all meant to 'get over it'?
Headline the other week was M&S difficulties with ‘percy pigs’ due to Brexit. Can’t make it up.
puhleeeeeeeeeeeez get your facts right! HYS on this at the weekend
"Could." So it might, or it might not and lets be honest it's impossible to know without a crystal ball. Still, nice one for the BBC on a Monday morning.
The war time generation lost much of their schooling for 5 years. Somehow they succeeded in producing the industrialists, scientists and professionals that our society thrived on in the 1950s and 1960s. Fighting for what you want in life can be very character building. Ask Captain Tom.
R
Comment posted by Ready, today at 10:12Ready
10:12
The bigger problem is that mass, uncontrolled immigration is costing UK workers £100,000s over their lifetimes!
How about a discussion on that? Removed
Comment posted by Ready, today at 10:12Ready
10:12
The bigger problem is that mass, uncontrolled immigration is costing UK workers £100,000s over their lifetimes!
How about a discussion on that? Removed
Don't use Cap'n Tom as an example which suggests the poor are largely responsible for their own poverty (offensive) the roots of the problems lie in underinvestment of young people via schools and apprenticeships and social mobility was great back in the Boomers' day (thank you Labour) now it's collapsed. The monies being stolen and stashed in the tax dens would be very welcome right now
Genuinely saddens me that someone would use Captain Tom to try and get some keyboard-warrior point scoring on young people.
How do you know how he feels? You with him in hospital?
How do you know how he feels? You with him in hospital?
Saying "Lost school time 'could cost pupils £40,000 in earnings'" is not helpful to anyone right now, since what is the viable alternative?
And saying that school-kids are not at risk from the virus misses the point too.
The point is that schools are long-proven super-spreaders of all manner of infections to the wider population; many of whom would die as a direct consequence of catching Covid.
And saying that school-kids are not at risk from the virus misses the point too.
The point is that schools are long-proven super-spreaders of all manner of infections to the wider population; many of whom would die as a direct consequence of catching Covid.
Ah yes, because something happened in the past we can ignore the present.
Why do some idiots insist in comparing our woes to what happened in a war 8 decades ago? I seem to remember that the post war era witnessed a massive decline in our industry through the 60s and steadily continued. Far from thriving we were the "sick man of Europe" until we joined the EEC. Our biggest gains in education were in the early 2000s, but we need opportunities for an educated workforce.
"A report suggests" it is so speculative it becomes worthless
I would like to know who the hell comes up with all this bull shite.
They were entering a new world that the West dominated
Reduced competition from pervious cohorts as many of them had been shot/blown to bits or they were suffering mental/physical injuries.
Also, where did all those success stories come from? The middle/upper middle class?
The modern equivalent kids will again be fine as they have been studying in their spare room, using their mac book pros.
Reduced competition from pervious cohorts as many of them had been shot/blown to bits or they were suffering mental/physical injuries.
Also, where did all those success stories come from? The middle/upper middle class?
The modern equivalent kids will again be fine as they have been studying in their spare room, using their mac book pros.
While this is a significant and valid issue, these vague 'reports' that attribute a pound value to the impact with little no to no justification are really little more than press releases designed to promote the bodies creating them.
Do you ever get the feeling that some "inequalities" are at least partially self-imposed?
It's because it's so easy to hide behind excuses just like in this BBC "report".
Read this story from 100 years ago and you can see what can be done. This person was a woman and black. Neither of those "excuses" stopped her doing what she wanted to.
https://www.amightygirl.com/fly-high?fbclid=IwAR1kuX7PzK0xW41uOUWqdBiiiufrO3fZnb9OvAewxkYnoJXU8NAXniAbPxM
Read this story from 100 years ago and you can see what can be done. This person was a woman and black. Neither of those "excuses" stopped her doing what she wanted to.
https://www.amightygirl.com/fly-high?fbclid=IwAR1kuX7PzK0xW41uOUWqdBiiiufrO3fZnb9OvAewxkYnoJXU8NAXniAbPxM
£40,000 ?? Sign of the times. Some "expert", desperate for a few minutes of fame picks a number out of the air and jumps on the "let's milk" covid bandwagon.
Yep. All people and businesses are facing losses due to Covid. The government has done everything possible to prioritise education with teachers on full pay, while ignoring musicians, artists and others.
Some poster, desparate for something to say, observer on the basis of nothing at all that the researchers just made it up on the spot.
Do you suppose they got a bonus for relating this to covid?
Do you suppose they got a bonus for relating this to covid?
Better than being dead maybe dunno close call.
Here we go again, "could" and "a report suggests" another pointless story, get a grip BBC. At least they'll be alive to earn a wage, let me guess someone's bound to suggest we compensate them all with £40,000 when they leave school!
Agreed. They should stick with more precise, definitive figures like the £350m pw the NHS will get from Brexit.
Not sure how they can quantify anyway. It's more about quality of life, if you are not properly educated
Your post is equally a "could" and "suggests", based on your "guess" that "someone" is "bound" to do something.
Guess + Unknown = Certainty?
Unknown number multiplied by unknown variable is 100% certain?
Here we go again.
Guess + Unknown = Certainty?
Unknown number multiplied by unknown variable is 100% certain?
Here we go again.
Yes, that would just about pay for 3 years in Uni and enough packet noodles to not starve while studying.
flpipmode just wanted to sneak some racism in there, as well as BBC bashing. Best not to try to talk with such types.
200 years ago the population of the UK was 10 million, now over 60 million - not every child can expect to have a well paid job - with so many on this tiny island a lot will have to accept they will never get a job.
So that comes to £1,000 per year over a 40 year career. Hardly earth shattering.
Much less than £1,000 per year after deduction of tax and national insurance of course
BBC room and gloom and bull shite
As the pension age keeps increasing, then most of those will be working closer to 50 years so only £800/year or £15/week.
£20 a week. Will you cut your own income by £20 a week? Plenty of charities need your help now.
NB: Headline didn't say "Earth shattering event / report / prediction"
NB: Headline didn't say "Earth shattering event / report / prediction"
I'm sure it won't make much difference to the rich kids at Harrow and Eton. Their silver spoons will help. Shame the free laptops and a better tool out of high speed wifi promise was not kept.
How do you do it BBC? You always mannage to grab the glass half empty don't you?
Instead of the good news of pupils spending more of their precious childhood with their parents which is something I sure they will look back with appreciation in the future, you monetize it and in a negative way.
Why? Why can you not report positively? Is your version of news always negative?
Instead of the good news of pupils spending more of their precious childhood with their parents which is something I sure they will look back with appreciation in the future, you monetize it and in a negative way.
Why? Why can you not report positively? Is your version of news always negative?
Gosh yeah but, have you never read a newspaper- they sell those solely on the basis of how much joy they bring to our lives, no scandal, no backbiting no money grubbing foulness, don’t you find it refreshing the BBC takes a middle line instead of all that positivity from the papers
What, exactly, is good about educational disruption? Please be specific. You're clearly not a parent of school aged children, or you would get this. It's not the government's fault, agreed, but it is anything but positive.
Yeah but all the parents are doing is whining about the loss of free babysitting.
Not to mention some parents teaching much more than the school would have.
Oh do stop whining.
The BBC is just reporting on a study from the Institute of Fiscal Studies - like a number of other media are - it's not BBC research.
If you don't like it, don't read it.
The BBC is just reporting on a study from the Institute of Fiscal Studies - like a number of other media are - it's not BBC research.
If you don't like it, don't read it.
"good news of pupils spending more of their precious childhood with their parents"
My son is at home, alone, while his parents are at work. He is unable to see anyone he knows at all. Friends, teachers, enemies, family, neighbours. This is worse than solitary confinement for him.
Did you imagine we took the year off work, that he is having a positive experience?
My son is at home, alone, while his parents are at work. He is unable to see anyone he knows at all. Friends, teachers, enemies, family, neighbours. This is worse than solitary confinement for him.
Did you imagine we took the year off work, that he is having a positive experience?
Distorting things based on incomplete data. The govt should say to schools we are adding an extra year (min 6 months) to every child’s education, the kids will hopefully get something back.
In 20 years time you will be hearing “I could have really done something with my life if it wasn’t for coronavirus when I was at school”. Your whole life is an opportunity to learn, I got my maths A-level as a mature student and my sister aged 60 gained a Doctorate from Open University.
and how much did she earn from that?
Yep, left school with no qualis
Took myself to Uni in my 30s and did my degree
Took myself to Uni in my 30s and did my degree
Well done now we know your username is appropriate
B.Sc. as a mature student in my late 30s. Went on ti become a consultant. and I was useless at school.
Horses for courses.
Horses for courses.
Yep the blame culture . Then they will start to sue the government for it . The big lesson in all of this is taking responsibility for your own learning and parents having to face their responsibilities as well instead of relying on the government to do everything
Totally agree, worked as an Engineeer for 33 years until the bottom dropped out of it in the northwest, countless of companies closed. At age 50 decided to go to University, did a maths degree alongside QTS(Qualified Teacher Status) been teaching since 2102. If you want something you have got to put the effort in.
DId you understand the article?
Miss a year of school = earn less. Less than if you didn't miss that year.
Unrelated: learning, other education, whatever anecdotal stuff
Miss a year of school = earn less. Less than if you didn't miss that year.
Unrelated: learning, other education, whatever anecdotal stuff
Any government's first duty is to protect its citizens and its territory. At last, Boris is doing just that. If we have sufficient vaccines for the entire population, and plenty in reserve, that is something GOOD at last.
It is not and never was the UK's job to look after every other damn country in the world. Long past time our politicians realised and accepted that.
It is not and never was the UK's job to look after every other damn country in the world. Long past time our politicians realised and accepted that.
May, could, might, perhaps...etc. Please report news, not speculation.
The poorest WILL be earning they will be doing the jobs no one else wants then they'll join the ONE MILLION and counting who need food banks to stay alive to the most part these people are the working poor
While this is a significant and valid issue, these vague 'reports' that attribute a pound value to the impact with little no to no justification are really little more than press releases designed to promote the bodies creating them.
Even £75 per month is on the high side with 50 yrs of work ahead of them. With only 1% inflation this reduces to £55 after 32 years and 2% inflation it reduces to £40. Not exactly a 'wow' story.
On line teaching is a fantasy that needs to be called out now
Schools are providing lessons where all the pupils are blanked screens because this is a "safeguarding" issue
Apparently unions are not happy that teachers might see something that is "reportable" going on the background and teachers aren't responsible for that
What really happens is no pupils are "present" just logged on
Schools are providing lessons where all the pupils are blanked screens because this is a "safeguarding" issue
Apparently unions are not happy that teachers might see something that is "reportable" going on the background and teachers aren't responsible for that
What really happens is no pupils are "present" just logged on
Add to that, sending emails at 7pm to inform of on line lessons the next day, and yes most are recorded or 1 way download type, so very little interaction - it's sort of semi live lessons. Not blaming the teachers as I know they are trying hard, but between poor home equipment/safeguarding/school IT capability and classroom teaching the 40% still going..on line is very much a stop gap at best!
Of course it is a stop-gap. What else happening in the country today is NOT a stop-gap? Things are not as they were - hadn't you noticed?
How do you do it BBC? You always mannage to grab the glass half empty don't you?
Instead of the good news of pupils spending more of their precious childhood with their parents which is something I sure they will look back with appreciation in the future, you monetize it and in a negative way.
Why? Why can you not report positively? Is your version of news always negative?
Instead of the good news of pupils spending more of their precious childhood with their parents which is something I sure they will look back with appreciation in the future, you monetize it and in a negative way.
Why? Why can you not report positively? Is your version of news always negative?
The ones who want to knuckle down and improve their grades, will. Others will use this whole thing as an excuse and try wing their way through.
Please read article and make coherent comment, not write nonsense
The IFS says its report contains an "illustration, rather than a precise prediction" of what could happen.
In other news, it may rain today, perhaps not.
In other news, it may rain today, perhaps not.
The BBC has provided the article as an illustration. It is not given as a fact. The 40k is very likely to be an average also. A hotel porter, for example, is never going to be on a salary that would 'lose' them that amount, but someone in management would be.
This is one of the worst examples of attaching spurious monetary values that I've read. the headline is gratuitous as even the IFS say that it's a what 'could' happen and acknowledge the speculative nature of the problem. We actually have exactly zero evidence of the long-term impact of this bout of disrupted schooling. Catching up should be a priority but beyond that we simply don't know.
Go read one of the countless papers on REAL data from REAL incidences where schooling was disrupted for a long time - here is one covering long-term strikes in Argentina. http://barrett.dyson.cornell.edu/NEUDC/paper_179.pdf
Lost learning never recovered. Loss of earnings results in poorer health and the need to vote Labour.
Lost learning never recovered. Loss of earnings results in poorer health and the need to vote Labour.
Adults don't put children in harm's way; that is a well established evolutionary principle. Yet here we are at the first hint of real danger in living memory, and we're content to throw children under a bus.
Sadly, it’s the world we now live in, everything is money orientated.
Just listen - really listen - to any of our government officials answering questions.
Every time they dodge the real question with an answer “we have invested £££££’s”, to deflect the issues.
Same today about education the answer, to reasonable questions about planning recovery for lost schooling was “we’ve invested £££’s”.
Just listen - really listen - to any of our government officials answering questions.
Every time they dodge the real question with an answer “we have invested £££££’s”, to deflect the issues.
Same today about education the answer, to reasonable questions about planning recovery for lost schooling was “we’ve invested £££’s”.
I agree. Spurious monetary values were also used by the Tony Blair government to justify the idea of sending 50% of each age group to university and bringing in tuition fees. This policy has distorted the higher education system, and resulted in many misled young people acquiring pointless mediocre degrees along with enormous debts.
It is a mistake to try to quantify education in this way.
It is a mistake to try to quantify education in this way.
Get some private tutors ... works well for child engagement and general wellbeing ... :-))
Thought BC in BBC stood for broadcasting corporation not BNC b***** negative corporation.
Lost £40k in earnings ? Were they hoping to work at the BBC for a few weeks ?
Or as a footballer for a day?
The bigger problem is that mass, uncontrolled immigration is costing UK workers £100,000s over their lifetimes!
How about a discussion on that?
How about a discussion on that?
Another racist response. Disgraceful.
Complete nonsense. School is largely a mechanism to occupy children to allow the parents to work. Vested interests put so much value on this early years education. What you use at work is a fraction of what is thrown at you at school, completely surpassed by specialising in your late teens, at university and in work training.
This article is another load of nonsence from the BBC, always ready to exagerate something. i dont think parents will give up there summer and half term holidays alsowho will pay teachers and support staff the overtime, You live in a dream world, print something that is not laughable.
Redo the year, restart it in September for all. Those that have been tutored and far enough along move up a year- everyone else redo’s, not just for educational reasons, it takes off pressure getting back into education, stress, mental health etc.
Exams back a year and A levels at 19, no penalty for uni and All get NI credit for year.
Support all effectively throughout
Exams back a year and A levels at 19, no penalty for uni and All get NI credit for year.
Support all effectively throughout
There is a reason the Open University for example exists. Many who missed school through illness, other reasons go into further education later in life. This generation will have to do the same. We all face tough times, what do you think happens when children become chronically ill>? They have obstacles stacked against them. Do they sit on their laurels? No they fight back, as you will have to do.
Not always a defender of the BBC but HYS was open on this for much of the weekend.
Indeed BBC and especially Katie Adler have been more than forthright on EU difficulties with this.
Indeed BBC and especially Katie Adler have been more than forthright on EU difficulties with this.
you never looked at the existing HYS Matt crawling with xenophobes too you'd have loved it
The bigger problem is that mass, uncontrolled immigration is costing UK workers £100,000s over their lifetimes!
How about a discussion on that?
How about a discussion on that?
Grow up, I'm actually a LEGAL non white immigrant!
Removed
Thought provoking article, but really total pants.
Just another one of those ‘wokey’ articles that blandly labels people saying that they are incapable of doing anything for themselves throughout their entire lives. Add the total ***t storm of global overpopulation, climate change, pollution & war fast approaching…. £40000? Get real!
Just another one of those ‘wokey’ articles that blandly labels people saying that they are incapable of doing anything for themselves throughout their entire lives. Add the total ***t storm of global overpopulation, climate change, pollution & war fast approaching…. £40000? Get real!
Every day, we get an even more preposterous story from these hacks ? 40k in a working lifetime is peanuts. It’s effectively £20 a week. I’ve slashed more up the wall on a weekender.
What a load of rubbish kids are loving it learning on line is what they will be doing in the future. Let them catch up by making academic year 47 weeks with 3 weeks off in august 1 week at christmas 1 week at easter and longer school days. let teachers teach and parents be parents which has become a bit of a shock to parents during lockdown BUT they are your kids so take responsibility
The Unions will decide when kids go back.
Guarantee if the PM announces it is safe for schools to go back to normal on 8th March, the Unions (backed by Labour) will tell their members that it is not safe and will demand all staff be vaccinated before full classes resume.
Guarantee if the PM announces it is safe for schools to go back to normal on 8th March, the Unions (backed by Labour) will tell their members that it is not safe and will demand all staff be vaccinated before full classes resume.
"...a report suggests".
It must be true then, eh?
It must be true then, eh?
Good grief! Only a tiny proportion of UK kids ever accessed Erasmus, and the kind of privileged kids who did are always going to be fine!
You'll be one of those who predicted all scientific research would stop in the UK after 2016 as all the scientists would leave. I think the Oxford vaccine team proved you wrong!
You'll be one of those who predicted all scientific research would stop in the UK after 2016 as all the scientists would leave. I think the Oxford vaccine team proved you wrong!
i kinda agree as employers will be looking at exam results and may be thinking to themselves that years 20 and 21 were just a waste of time as qualifications were just 'given' by teachers to keep everyone happy. So with that in mind the employer doesn't really know what their true abilities really are do they, brainiac or thicko?
If you have a half way decent recruitment process, you should be able to tell.
The war time generation lost much of their schooling for 5 years. Somehow they succeeded in producing the industrialists, scientists and professionals that our society thrived on in the 1950s and 1960s. Fighting for what you want in life can be very character building. Ask Captain Tom.
"The bigger problem is that mass, uncontrolled immigration is costing UK workers £100,000s over their lifetimes!"
Yeah, that isn't true at all, most migrants add value to the economy of the host country rather than cost us money:
https://www.oecd.org/migration/OECD%20Migration%20Policy%20Debates%20Numero%202.pdf
Get your facts right
Yeah, that isn't true at all, most migrants add value to the economy of the host country rather than cost us money:
https://www.oecd.org/migration/OECD%20Migration%20Policy%20Debates%20Numero%202.pdf
Get your facts right
It's not costing anything as those too are UK workers, or do you just mean white British ones? In any case that immigration is needed because the jobs are beneath the entitled UK workers, as you call them, otherwise there wouldn't be a need for immigrates. Don't confuse immigrants with refugees.
If a person who can not speak a word of English is taking your job, you have to ask yourself whose fault that is.
We don't have mass, uncontrolled immigration, we never have. These are conspriacy theories. Plus, immigrants contribute to the UK economy eaulkly if not more so that residents, they're a benefit. Only racists and xenophobes deny this.
Nice to see those old brexit prejudices against "forriners" haven't gone away.
oh dear. You went there didnt you. What uncontrolled immigration are you talking of? The EU one that we signed up to that gave free movement to other EU members from some of the richest economies in the world or the made up one that involves thousands of people entering the govenrment and avoiding our immigration rules?
I'm not sure that it is over all. I agree that it should be discussed, and there are some jobs that certainly have lost out to immigrants; builders, plumbers, etc. However they also boost the economy and create other jobs and *increase* income of some, I know a building developer who (pre covid) said that employing immigrants enabled him to grow much quicker than if he waited for UK workers.
There are some people who bring immigration into a lot of these discussions. Some immigrants are better educated than some UK people and are assets to the workplace. If I were an employer, I would prefer to have them, rather than some of the Brits I have met.
How do you do it BBC? You always mannage to grab the glass half empty don't you?
Instead of the good news of pupils spending more of their precious childhood with their parents which is something I sure they will look back with appreciation in the future, you monetize it and in a negative way.
Why? Why can you not report positively? Is your version of news always negative?
Instead of the good news of pupils spending more of their precious childhood with their parents which is something I sure they will look back with appreciation in the future, you monetize it and in a negative way.
Why? Why can you not report positively? Is your version of news always negative?
Pointless study. In long run £40,000 hardly means anything (accounting for future inflation), then secondly the schools/college/uni will try their best to catch up on the lost time & finally, kids are getting smarter & smarter and the techonology is moving so fast that this period would be a distant history like any other period
What a waste of money/resources in conducting such pointless studies
What a waste of money/resources in conducting such pointless studies
Every day, we get an even more preposterous story from these hacks ? 40k in a working lifetime is peanuts. It’s effectively £20 a week. I’ve slashed more up the wall on a weekender.
BBC NEWS, hang your head in shame!!!
Completely speculative, not fact based at all as the article tries to profess to be.
Maybe go and speak to headteachers and teachers at schools and the amazing efforts they are putting in place to give pupils an education, not trying to scaremonger and coming up with useless non fact based assumptions!
Something you would expect to read on the Daily Mail!
Completely speculative, not fact based at all as the article tries to profess to be.
Maybe go and speak to headteachers and teachers at schools and the amazing efforts they are putting in place to give pupils an education, not trying to scaremonger and coming up with useless non fact based assumptions!
Something you would expect to read on the Daily Mail!
Is the author sure it’s not 39k?
This is exactly what has been said all along. People who miss out on education never catch up and earn less than those who didn't. It has been documented many times before with long-term strikes in other countries.
With teachers half as likely to die vs. the working age population it is shameful that pressure is applied to shirk out of work.
With teachers half as likely to die vs. the working age population it is shameful that pressure is applied to shirk out of work.
What a load of utter carp. The same jobs will still need doing whether they miss school or not! Including a lot of over paid jobs at useless "think tanks"!!
I think we all underestimate the ability of children to bounce back. The generation whose world was turned upside down by war and evacuation (sometimes to the other side oft he world) some how managed to rebuild the country afterwards.
I think we all underestimate the ability of children to bounce back. The generation whose world was turned upside down by war and evacuation (sometimes to the other side oft he world) some how managed to rebuild the country afterwards.
Massively unlikely as the average wage isn't even that. could the BBC please stop reporting unverified statistics from pressure groups self interested "charities" who appear to be mainly interested in paying their senior staff. If OIlver Barnes could maybe do is own copy less based on facebook scare stories? Try checking a fact before you report
Massively unlikely as you can't do reading. £40k average, not each.
Another racist response. Disgraceful.
i kinda agree as employers will be looking at exam results and may be thinking to themselves that years 20 and 21 were just a waste of time as qualifications were just 'given' by teachers to keep everyone happy. So with that in mind the employer doesn't really know what their true abilities really are do they, brainiac or thicko?
Loss of earnings is possible.
Extra taxation to pay for government spending is inevitable
Extra taxation to pay for government spending is inevitable
And THAT is the real loss of earnings. Unless, of course, you are already super-rich when of course you don't have to pay any tax at all.
Utter rubbish. There are years for most children to catch up on education and earn if the economy rebounds.
But we do need to stop waste such as ridiculous reports such as this and BBC wasting time reporting on it.
But we do need to stop waste such as ridiculous reports such as this and BBC wasting time reporting on it.
Main problem is that ALTHOUGH schools could make up the lost time, a lot of schools simply AREN'T up to it. For instance, Johnson would have got nowhere NEAR Downing St., without going to Eton college. Bright working class kids who are willing to work and learn achieve NOTHING if we don't invest in the young generation PROPERLY.
May, could, might, perhaps...etc. Please report news, not speculation.
Ultimately this has been proven before. Here is just one example. http://barrett.dyson.cornell.edu/NEUDC/paper_179.pdf
And it is not just monetary effects either. Health as well.
And it is not just monetary effects either. Health as well.
Yes, but Tories don't like facts.
Don't bother writing anything about the harm caused to young people and children by the lockdown for a disease that does not really affect them.
No one on HYS cares they just want to extend the lockdown and shout abuse at covidiot 'youngsters and students'.
No one on HYS cares they just want to extend the lockdown and shout abuse at covidiot 'youngsters and students'.
R
Comment posted by Ready, today at 10:12Ready
10:12
The bigger problem is that mass, uncontrolled immigration is costing UK workers £100,000s over their lifetimes!
How about a discussion on that? Removed
Comment posted by Ready, today at 10:12Ready
10:12
The bigger problem is that mass, uncontrolled immigration is costing UK workers £100,000s over their lifetimes!
How about a discussion on that? Removed
"The bigger problem is that mass, uncontrolled immigration is costing UK workers £100,000s over their lifetimes!"
Yeah, that isn't true at all, most migrants add value to the economy of the host country rather than cost us money:
https://www.oecd.org/migration/OECD%20Migration%20Policy%20Debates%20Numero%202.pdf
Get your facts right
Yeah, that isn't true at all, most migrants add value to the economy of the host country rather than cost us money:
https://www.oecd.org/migration/OECD%20Migration%20Policy%20Debates%20Numero%202.pdf
Get your facts right
While you are right that there is a benefit to the economy from migration, but that was not their statement which is that uncontrolled immigration is costing workers £100,000 in their lifetime (amount debatable) but uncontrolled immigration lowers wages which was the point being made far more than approx. £1000 per year for a working life time
There is clearly a left wing agenda at work, only half the facts are reported. Most migrants do contribute. However thanks to migration, Britain has to spend £8Billion every year on counter terrorism trying to prevent migrants or the children of migrants blowing us up, hacking us to death or deliberately running us over.
Removed
Well done in answering a different question, Ready has not put his question in the most eloquent of ways but they are correct. Immigration drives down wages for certain sectors, however on the other side the economy benefits, the question you need to answer if you're going to rudely slap them down is where the money goes ;)
It is not the true migrant you should be focused on it is the generations of scroungers - that is those that physically and mentally that could work but instead TAKE from the mouths of those that do, that is an area that needs looking into along with girls who have kids with no accountability from the "donor" just to get state support and housing.
Leading the way in industry, innovation, healthcare or perhaps more suited to maritime careers?
The OECD report is a "one size fits all" claim & one the UK government itself has found to be untrue in our case.
From the BBC, based on a UCL study
"over the longer term, immigrants to the UK have been a burden on the state.
They estimate that between 1995 and 2011, all immigrants to the UK - from outside the EU and inside - were a net drain on public resources of between £114bn and £31bn.."
EU migrants were a net positive- non-EU immigration was negative
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29912945
"over the longer term, immigrants to the UK have been a burden on the state.
They estimate that between 1995 and 2011, all immigrants to the UK - from outside the EU and inside - were a net drain on public resources of between £114bn and £31bn.."
EU migrants were a net positive- non-EU immigration was negative
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29912945
Firstly, the pandemic has been a life changing event for everyone, let’s acknowledge that and move forward. The problem can be dealt with through the tax system by allowing those who have been impacted to pay less tax. In many ways the current situation isn’t any different to that faced by people after a war or natural disaster.
What a load of rubbish. At the school my grandchildren attend the headteacher sent a letter to all parents explaining that course education packs will be provided. However when the pupils return to school if they have fallen behind its the parents fault! Now even when they have received the vaccine the unions are saying keep schools closed. Shocking abdication of responsibility!!
This is one of the worst examples of attaching spurious monetary values that I've read. the headline is gratuitous as even the IFS say that it's a what 'could' happen and acknowledge the speculative nature of the problem. We actually have exactly zero evidence of the long-term impact of this bout of disrupted schooling. Catching up should be a priority but beyond that we simply don't know.
Go read one of the countless papers on REAL data from REAL incidences where schooling was disrupted for a long time - here is one covering long-term strikes in Argentina. http://barrett.dyson.cornell.edu/NEUDC/paper_179.pdf
Lost learning never recovered. Loss of earnings results in poorer health and the need to vote Labour.
Lost learning never recovered. Loss of earnings results in poorer health and the need to vote Labour.
I would also state that given the Argentinian economy is a basket case that is more than like to be the cause of those issues.
Labour would have kept the schools open throughout the pandemic then, would they Bob?
You did read the study?
During the period it covers, most of the time the Gov was centralist socialist or left leaning
Voting 'Labour' in Argentina is what caused a lot of the problems with teachers strikes
During the period it covers, most of the time the Gov was centralist socialist or left leaning
Voting 'Labour' in Argentina is what caused a lot of the problems with teachers strikes
Well you would have to be stupid to vote Labour in Argentina. There is no such party.
Then again as a lifetime Labour voter it is surprising that I can even spel wirds propaly.
Then again as a lifetime Labour voter it is surprising that I can even spel wirds propaly.
I don't know what your experience of Labour governments is, but having lived through every failed Labour government since Harold Wilson I cannot understand why anyone would vote Labour: unless of course you just want handouts for layabouts?
Don't think they had teachers working full time teaching online in Argentina . Context mate , context
The most corrupt country in the Americas. Not many parallels to be drawn I'm afraid. I have a large Argentine family and most of that generation left in their teens to seek work in Europe. Italy and Spain mostly.
Muppet.
100% Inheritance tax for the next 10 years should cover it
Any government's first duty is to protect its citizens and its territory. At last, Boris is doing just that. If we have sufficient vaccines for the entire population, and plenty in reserve, that is something GOOD at last.
It is not and never was the UK's job to look after every other damn country in the world. Long past time our politicians realised and accepted that.
It is not and never was the UK's job to look after every other damn country in the world. Long past time our politicians realised and accepted that.
but a contract is a contract.
Tell that one to the "commonwealth" who have been promised much but have to wait
Is the author sure it’s not 39k?
BBC NEWS, hang your head in shame!!!
Completely speculative, not fact based at all as the article tries to profess to be.
Maybe go and speak to headteachers and teachers at schools and the amazing efforts they are putting in place to give pupils an education, not trying to scaremonger and coming up with useless non fact based assumptions!
Something you would expect to read on the Daily Mail!
Completely speculative, not fact based at all as the article tries to profess to be.
Maybe go and speak to headteachers and teachers at schools and the amazing efforts they are putting in place to give pupils an education, not trying to scaremonger and coming up with useless non fact based assumptions!
Something you would expect to read on the Daily Mail!
Removed
Agree this is off topic but as mentioned by others why no HYS on the EU vaccine or NI debacle, or how Mr Macron has been so UK negative...obviously does not fit the agenda
That's nothing compared to the vast amount of damage that's being visited upon the education and the mental health of so many kids.
A couple of days ago, Katharine Birbalsingh, a well known headmistress from the Michaela Community School, stated that she "doesn't think there is any such thing as good online learning".
Sadly, for our children, a lot of cowardly people won't accept this truth.
A couple of days ago, Katharine Birbalsingh, a well known headmistress from the Michaela Community School, stated that she "doesn't think there is any such thing as good online learning".
Sadly, for our children, a lot of cowardly people won't accept this truth.
Oh god. Not another pointless might happen report.Is there someone who lies in bed thinking "what report can we invent today"
Lots of things might happen. They also might not.
Lots of things might happen. They also might not.
Mass repetition of school years just won't work. Think of that down the line. Will there be double sized classes until the kids leave school, potentially 10 years for the youngest? Will the UK universities have no British intake for a year, then a double dose of applicants the next?