Covid-hit pupils 'should be allowed to repeat a year'
29/01/2021 | news | education | 724
Education think-tank says pupils should have the right to repeat the school year after Covid disruption.
1
29/01/2021 10:21:34 5 9
bbc
BBC loves a think tank. Would love to know who these people really are because they are well removed from the thoughts of "normal" people.
4
29/01/2021 10:25:44 9 4
bbc
And you are an expert on ?????
2
29/01/2021 10:23:26 81 16
bbc
Great idea.

No doubt some HYS authoritarian grump will be along shortly, to slag off teachers.

The same grumps who wouldn't have the guts to do a teaching job.
3
29/01/2021 10:25:30 116 21
bbc
Those who can, teach.

Those who can't, make disparaging comments about teachers.
8
29/01/2021 10:33:44 28 6
bbc
Not only don't have the guts, but also lack the skills.

These lockdowns show just how important teachers are to daily life whether as helping our education or as glorified child minders. And yet a lot of people benefiting from the teachers don't think they deserve a pay rise or safe working conditions. Disgraceful really
19
29/01/2021 10:42:50 9 27
bbc
"The same grumps who wouldn't have the guts to do a teaching job."

Gee, someone's a bit sensitive.

I'm sorry but teacher's aren't above criticism, no one is.

And if you're so thin skinned not to accept that I'm just very glad you've not walked the paths I have
140
29/01/2021 11:54:55 6 17
bbc
I was a teacher, many of them are militant lefties, many others are now corporate shills who get out the classroom asap and have no love for education.
I was not brilliant, but I always did my best for the pupils, that was frowned upon by the lefties and shills, heaven forbid you teach them more than they need to get a C or worse still, suggest that a trade is a perfectly good career.
688
30/01/2021 12:46:11 0 0
bbc
Totally agree with you. I taught for over 30 until I was injured. Not only are teachers day in day out putting up with poor behaviour, unsupportive parents, over zealous lesson observations, mounting paper work which slowly grinds away at their confidence and enthusiasm, only for some self opinionated ignoramus to come along and have a go!! No wonder young staff don't want to stay.
2
29/01/2021 10:23:26 81 16
bbc
Great idea.

No doubt some HYS authoritarian grump will be along shortly, to slag off teachers.

The same grumps who wouldn't have the guts to do a teaching job.
3
29/01/2021 10:25:30 116 21
bbc
Those who can, teach.

Those who can't, make disparaging comments about teachers.
81
29/01/2021 11:32:52 22 1
bbc
One thing we've learnt this past year is the value of teachers. Many parents have acknowledged they just don't have the time, patience or skills - not just to step up and support the academic side of education at this time of need, but also the behavioural side. I cringed watching a parent on tv saying she couldn't stop her child doing handstands rather than schoolwork- how did it get to that?
144
29/01/2021 11:55:57 5 10
bbc
Exactly the rubbish chat that made me quit the job!
Physics and maths shortage, good luck, I don't get patronised in my new profession!
440
29/01/2021 14:40:22 1 1
bbc
That wasn't the version I heard

Those who can, do.........
1
29/01/2021 10:21:34 5 9
bbc
BBC loves a think tank. Would love to know who these people really are because they are well removed from the thoughts of "normal" people.
4
29/01/2021 10:25:44 9 4
bbc
And you are an expert on ?????
5
29/01/2021 10:26:06 42 11
bbc
Can’t help but think England should’ve closed a week early before Christmas like schools in Wales, who are now looking at a phased reopening after the February half term because of falling cases.
10
29/01/2021 10:35:04 71 31
bbc
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. If only labour or someone suggested that we had a circuit breaker before christmas at the time....

oh wait, they did
17
Bob
29/01/2021 10:41:51 10 9
bbc
Doesn't change much though, really. They're saying they may return no earlier than a date that is a little over a week earlier Boris has given for English schools.

So if you enter it a week or so earlier and come out of it a week or so earlier, you haven't had a shorter duration than the other party.
32
29/01/2021 11:00:34 3 7
bbc
"Can’t help but think England should’ve closed a week early before Christmas like schools in Wales, who are now looking at a phased reopening after the February half term because of falling cases."

That assumes that closure of schools 6 weeks ago in Wales & Scotland (as opposed to 5 weeks in England) is linked to a fall in cases now.

I don't think we can say for sure, there are so many factors
45
29/01/2021 11:17:45 1 1
bbc
Until schools go back.

Wales ended its 17 day ld in autumn, cases dipped, but not enough, so rose quickly, reentered ld again.

Same in Eng - too soft and short ld saw dip, and then rapid rises as eased.

School kids, esp teens e.g. the exam years likely to be prioritised again, are a proven vector for virus spread into homes.

A few wks may help, but it wont fill gap of missing months.
156
29/01/2021 12:00:15 4 1
bbc
Yes, and many people signed petitions saying just this yet received spite and vitriol from there for doing so!
6
29/01/2021 10:29:25 99 5
bbc
In principle, sure? Why not.

In practice our class sizes are already too large without a load of extra kids joining them. Its also an interesting gamble on final outcome. Do you chance your 2021 exam results and be in the year with fewer university applications or do you gamble you'll do MUCH better next year and chance being in the year with 50% more uni applications than normal?
33
29/01/2021 11:03:52 153 9
bbc
Society really does need to rethink the uni is the norm for so many.

3 or 4 years, and an aver of 40k debt, often followed by low wages ( such that so few c25% will repay that debt).

A good uni degree used to be a passport to a decent life, today it has simply replaced a decent school education for many jobs, many not well enough paid to clear debts.
34
29/01/2021 11:05:58 3 13
bbc
Why do class sizes increase is all years repeat?
87
29/01/2021 11:35:38 1 1
bbc
Nicely put, my choice would be chance it, particularly if key exams are at least 2 years away

A child's decision may be flavoured by:

Do they see themselves as a competent student?

- are they fired up to race through the curriculum, with hopefully a new found interest in effective studying with peers/teachers after a long, sporadic lay-off?

(I was a rubbish student 'til aged about 18!)
90
29/01/2021 11:36:20 5 1
bbc
In terms of exam students, I would imagine after last year the majority would be happy to take predicted grades and potentially only do small exams or no exams then wait a year and gamble on amazing exams raising their marks..
188
29/01/2021 12:15:28 1 2
bbc
Regarding class sizes, if say on average 10% decide to repeat a year, you would expect every year to have kids that are repeating a year. Therefore is you are lucky, class sizes in a particular school might stay roughly the same, except for perhaps the reception year, that might go from 30 to say 35, assuming all the 3-4 years olds start as normal. Might work.
190
29/01/2021 12:17:19 0 3
bbc
Most of them would be better off with catch-up classes. There are lots of retired graduates who could give free on-line lessons. Also the universities should be organising catch-up sessions to start with. Use PhD students for mentors if necessary.
298
29/01/2021 12:57:45 2 3
bbc
That wouldn't be an issue if the gov pulled finger out and just took decision that everyone repeats whole academic year (including uni) from September. All have suffered disruption. All that would mean would be later primary start - which is needed anyway! They currently start far too young and much earlier than in other countries.
402
29/01/2021 14:16:35 1 4
bbc
I'd rather make sure I had an education than worry about whether the classes are slightly bigger. EVERY grade from 2020 and most likely 2021 will have an asterisk next to it, and like it or not, that's a stigma.
509
DSA
29/01/2021 15:19:09 1 1
bbc
Class sizes are not too large.

Back in the early 60's the class size at the grammar school I attended was about 40.

It could have been that those at the school wanted to actually learn rather than mess about and make trouble like many too many today.
7
29/01/2021 10:31:11 6 3
bbc
I think those that are at exam stage should repeat the year. It will give them the chance to complete work and projects - especially for those subjects that have practical elements to them.
2
29/01/2021 10:23:26 81 16
bbc
Great idea.

No doubt some HYS authoritarian grump will be along shortly, to slag off teachers.

The same grumps who wouldn't have the guts to do a teaching job.
8
29/01/2021 10:33:44 28 6
bbc
Not only don't have the guts, but also lack the skills.

These lockdowns show just how important teachers are to daily life whether as helping our education or as glorified child minders. And yet a lot of people benefiting from the teachers don't think they deserve a pay rise or safe working conditions. Disgraceful really
Another pay rise???!! I think you will find you earn plenty.

Teachers throughout this pandemic have done nothing but show just how greedy they are and that the world revolves around them and them only!

Stop being greedy and demanding!!
Removed
9
29/01/2021 10:33:59 2 9
bbc
Why would they? They'll get all the qualifications they want and won't have to sit any exams.

Everyone a winner!
5
29/01/2021 10:26:06 42 11
bbc
Can’t help but think England should’ve closed a week early before Christmas like schools in Wales, who are now looking at a phased reopening after the February half term because of falling cases.
10
29/01/2021 10:35:04 71 31
bbc
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. If only labour or someone suggested that we had a circuit breaker before christmas at the time....

oh wait, they did
18
29/01/2021 10:42:05 12 14
bbc
Is that the circuit breaker that labour in Wales tried which was an abject failure?

And is not Wales saying some schools might be able to have a phased opening.
28
29/01/2021 10:55:06 16 3
bbc
Numpties love the term "hindsight". It saves them from having to think.
29
29/01/2021 10:42:28 10 2
bbc
Eejits love the term "hindsight". It prevents them from having to think about the issues.
142
29/01/2021 11:55:29 5 2
bbc
Amazing how many people are marking down a factual statement because it doesn't fit with their narrative - if you marked this down, go back and watch some Prime Ministers Questions in parliament during this pandemic.
159
29/01/2021 12:02:22 1 6
bbc
Yeah, but Boris will never admit he's wrong - and will always describe Starmer as Captain Hindsight. Even though we know Boris is wrong the majority will still vote Tory next time, because financially they are the least bad option. Vote labour and there's a real risk that the someone paying the bills will be you, not the someone else you meant.
181
29/01/2021 12:12:46 2 5
bbc
Labour leader Captain Sir Kneeler Hindsight never has anything to offer!
241
29/01/2021 12:46:26 1 2
bbc
Like the circuit breaker Wales had...that worked well.
253
29/01/2021 12:54:42 2 2
bbc
"Hindsight is a wonderful thing. If only labour or someone suggested that we had a circuit breaker before christmas at the time....
oh wait, they did"

Wales went through with it and it was an unmitigated disaster
470
29/01/2021 14:57:39 0 1
bbc
I would guess that if Labour suggested not having a circuit breaker before Christmas we may well have had one!
11
29/01/2021 10:37:48 3 8
bbc
IF schools can open March 8th-they could remain open until end of August.A short 4 day break over easter the same in may,a few days off end of june and a week at the end of august.This will at least help by 8 to 10 weeks the non exam groups catch-up.This practical step will have the support of all who care about childrens wellbeing and future education!!!!!!!!!
53
29/01/2021 11:22:52 6 1
bbc
And where are the extra teachers for this coming from? People really don’t understand how educational facilities work. Schools have been open throughout lockdown and teachers have been working both with face to face teaching for key workers children and for online learning.
12
29/01/2021 10:38:06 10 4
bbc
What about children entering schooling for the first time? This would result in a knock on effect - Twice the size of Reception classes for 2021-22 as new starters will be joining those 'repeating' the year then ongoing each year doubling up Year 1 - Y2. Just a thought.
103
29/01/2021 11:41:15 2 2
bbc
Obviously they would be taught in portacabins on the playing field and you'd have a double-sized form going through school for 13 years. Yes, it's unworkable, unless you permanently raised the entrance age for school.
13
29/01/2021 10:39:58 8 6
bbc
Repeating the year is a dreadful idea, both in practical and psychological terms. Many children have worked very hard and this would be a slap in the face to them. Practically it's impossible because we'd have to fundamentally change the age range of schooling forever.

Much better to target the children who need extra help.
27
29/01/2021 10:55:02 5 1
bbc
Why is the calendar stuck in stone ?

And not like schools or unis are feeding a thriving jobs market right now.

Kids in all years suffered missed education. Exams and qual equalization abandoned, grade inflation rife.

Maybe 50%+ kids remote taught, to widely diff standards when in LD, between educ auth and indiv schools.

This is not a small minority disadvantaged, its millions of kids.
191
29/01/2021 12:17:33 1 1
bbc
Changing the age range of schooling is not impossible. It has been done before, for example when the leaving age was raised.
8
29/01/2021 10:33:44 28 6
bbc
Not only don't have the guts, but also lack the skills.

These lockdowns show just how important teachers are to daily life whether as helping our education or as glorified child minders. And yet a lot of people benefiting from the teachers don't think they deserve a pay rise or safe working conditions. Disgraceful really
14
bbc
Another pay rise???!! I think you will find you earn plenty.

Teachers throughout this pandemic have done nothing but show just how greedy they are and that the world revolves around them and them only!

Stop being greedy and demanding!!
Removed
22
29/01/2021 10:45:30 26 3
bbc
teachers earn between £25,714 to £41,604 going by my google search there. Now, if you've had to deal with your own kids when homeschooling, do you think this is cheap or expensive. As I think most will find the service they offer as cheap
23
29/01/2021 10:46:14 17 3
bbc
P.s. im not a teacher, nor am i married to one. So how am i being greedy asking for more for people that have no relation to me whatsover... it's literally the opposite of greed
Removed
15
29/01/2021 10:40:56 3 4
bbc
Given that by time schools go back, many kids will have effectively missed 2 of the 3 terms, last spring and this winter, some will have had 1 or more isolation periods in the autumn term, that's pretty close to a full year.

Repeat more logical than plasters put over last year.

Resitting 1 term last summer for all would have saved kids and govts from the farce of last years grade inflation.
16
Ugg
29/01/2021 10:41:03 3 10
bbc
Keeping schools open throughout the Easter and summer holidays this year would give kids at least some catch-up time?
21
29/01/2021 10:43:57 6 6
bbc
As long as this only applied to children who hadn't been able to access the work at home. Many many children have continued to work very hard and it would be unfair to make them attend school in their holidays when they've been following a full timetable.
48
29/01/2021 11:19:45 2 1
bbc
You would have to find someone to teach them....
58
mc
29/01/2021 11:12:43 0 5
bbc
so 4 teachers not working by look of it so far
72
29/01/2021 11:29:47 2 1
bbc
It's the best solution, but... the problem is that teachers will need time off, and time to prepare the next term's work. Some will be willing to do a couple of weeks to help pupils catch up, IF the government pays for it. Another problem is that different pupils will be behind in different ways, so a general catch-up class will be ineffective.
5
29/01/2021 10:26:06 42 11
bbc
Can’t help but think England should’ve closed a week early before Christmas like schools in Wales, who are now looking at a phased reopening after the February half term because of falling cases.
17
Bob
29/01/2021 10:41:51 10 9
bbc
Doesn't change much though, really. They're saying they may return no earlier than a date that is a little over a week earlier Boris has given for English schools.

So if you enter it a week or so earlier and come out of it a week or so earlier, you haven't had a shorter duration than the other party.
10
29/01/2021 10:35:04 71 31
bbc
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. If only labour or someone suggested that we had a circuit breaker before christmas at the time....

oh wait, they did
18
29/01/2021 10:42:05 12 14
bbc
Is that the circuit breaker that labour in Wales tried which was an abject failure?

And is not Wales saying some schools might be able to have a phased opening.
30
29/01/2021 10:57:00 12 1
bbc
Northern Ireland did the same and it worked better for us.

How did Englands approach go again? That's right, we've had >30,000 Covid related deaths since christmas.
2
29/01/2021 10:23:26 81 16
bbc
Great idea.

No doubt some HYS authoritarian grump will be along shortly, to slag off teachers.

The same grumps who wouldn't have the guts to do a teaching job.
19
29/01/2021 10:42:50 9 27
bbc
"The same grumps who wouldn't have the guts to do a teaching job."

Gee, someone's a bit sensitive.

I'm sorry but teacher's aren't above criticism, no one is.

And if you're so thin skinned not to accept that I'm just very glad you've not walked the paths I have
178
29/01/2021 12:11:27 2 3
bbc
*teachers
179
29/01/2021 12:11:52 3 3
bbc
No one's claiming teachers are above criticism. But the fact is, every time there is a HYS on education, a significant number of posters are hugely critical. What do you think that does for teacher's morale? It doesn't help, of course, that the Education Secretary shows little support for the profession he is meant to be in charge of.
288
29/01/2021 13:08:58 3 3
bbc
Criticism is one thing, knee jerk bloviating Daily Mail politically drive drivel is quite another.
654
TJ
29/01/2021 22:54:25 1 0
bbc
Oh, please enlighten us mere mortals about the 'paths you've walked'... and enlighten us about why you are qualified to make such condescending comments about teachers who are working flat out during this crisis in extremely difficult circumstances, which you clearly know so much about.
20
29/01/2021 10:43:53 75 5
bbc
Good idea but how many of the schools have the capacity to accomadate the pupils?
106
29/01/2021 11:43:06 50 35
bbc
Accommodate.
126
29/01/2021 11:49:35 4 5
bbc
All if do all years.
189
29/01/2021 12:16:22 5 1
bbc
School pupils have always been able to repeat a year usually to improve their GCSE or A level results
252
29/01/2021 12:53:59 1 2
bbc
My kids school doesn't even have capacity for key workers. Need to stay home and only do half my hospital job.
340
29/01/2021 13:30:05 0 1
bbc
My local high school has a capacity of 1300, presently teaching 672.
16
Ugg
29/01/2021 10:41:03 3 10
bbc
Keeping schools open throughout the Easter and summer holidays this year would give kids at least some catch-up time?
21
29/01/2021 10:43:57 6 6
bbc
As long as this only applied to children who hadn't been able to access the work at home. Many many children have continued to work very hard and it would be unfair to make them attend school in their holidays when they've been following a full timetable.
74
29/01/2021 11:30:24 0 1
bbc
I presume the need for the remedial catch-up classes would be assessed once the pupils return to school.
89
Wet
29/01/2021 11:36:11 0 1
bbc
I don't think there is any intention to force pupils to stay down en bloc.
Another pay rise???!! I think you will find you earn plenty.

Teachers throughout this pandemic have done nothing but show just how greedy they are and that the world revolves around them and them only!

Stop being greedy and demanding!!
Removed
22
29/01/2021 10:45:30 26 3
bbc
teachers earn between £25,714 to £41,604 going by my google search there. Now, if you've had to deal with your own kids when homeschooling, do you think this is cheap or expensive. As I think most will find the service they offer as cheap
Another pay rise???!! I think you will find you earn plenty.

Teachers throughout this pandemic have done nothing but show just how greedy they are and that the world revolves around them and them only!

Stop being greedy and demanding!!
Removed
23
29/01/2021 10:46:14 17 3
bbc
P.s. im not a teacher, nor am i married to one. So how am i being greedy asking for more for people that have no relation to me whatsover... it's literally the opposite of greed
24
29/01/2021 10:47:12 5 9
bbc
That's a year less that they won't be earning, paying taxes or contributing to their own pensions/savings, while adding extra burdens to our education system.

Stuff being a school child at the moment - they're being rather done over by the failures of adults.
124
29/01/2021 11:48:37 3 2
bbc
Do you really think there are enough jobs out there now?

A year resit, a proper exam grade, in school, not on dole ?

And re earnings, schools "push" c50pct to uni, no earning for 3 or 4 yrs, an ave debt of 40k (loans that only 25% will repay fully) (gov 2019 figs).

Millions of adults are also done over by Covid. 100k dead.

Pubs, rest and retail - 100,000s of jobs - closed to open schools.
25
29/01/2021 10:41:51 8 9
bbc
In this instance "think tank" really is an oxymoron.

Do these Einsteins really imagine for a second that most kids have the least desire to repeat a year.

This just goes to show how totally detached these fools are from how things work in the real world.

"Fairness to young people"

Empty words! That would have meant never shutting schools in the first place, and now opening them at once.
67
29/01/2021 11:27:34 1 1
bbc
Think tanks are usually more political than intellectual.
73
29/01/2021 11:30:10 1 1
bbc
Think tank is not an oxymoron "seriously funny" is. An Oxymoron is the linking of 2 words that mean the opposite "think" and "tank" are not opposites. Still, you could repeat the year
86
Wet
29/01/2021 11:35:07 0 2
bbc
Nobody want to have to do "one more year of schooling", but if they are actually serious about getting their education, they will consider doing it.
Another pay rise???!! I think you will find you earn plenty.

Teachers throughout this pandemic have done nothing but show just how greedy they are and that the world revolves around them and them only!

Stop being greedy and demanding!!
Removed
Removed
13
29/01/2021 10:39:58 8 6
bbc
Repeating the year is a dreadful idea, both in practical and psychological terms. Many children have worked very hard and this would be a slap in the face to them. Practically it's impossible because we'd have to fundamentally change the age range of schooling forever.

Much better to target the children who need extra help.
27
29/01/2021 10:55:02 5 1
bbc
Why is the calendar stuck in stone ?

And not like schools or unis are feeding a thriving jobs market right now.

Kids in all years suffered missed education. Exams and qual equalization abandoned, grade inflation rife.

Maybe 50%+ kids remote taught, to widely diff standards when in LD, between educ auth and indiv schools.

This is not a small minority disadvantaged, its millions of kids.
10
29/01/2021 10:35:04 71 31
bbc
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. If only labour or someone suggested that we had a circuit breaker before christmas at the time....

oh wait, they did
28
29/01/2021 10:55:06 16 3
bbc
Numpties love the term "hindsight". It saves them from having to think.
10
29/01/2021 10:35:04 71 31
bbc
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. If only labour or someone suggested that we had a circuit breaker before christmas at the time....

oh wait, they did
29
29/01/2021 10:42:28 10 2
bbc
Eejits love the term "hindsight". It prevents them from having to think about the issues.
18
29/01/2021 10:42:05 12 14
bbc
Is that the circuit breaker that labour in Wales tried which was an abject failure?

And is not Wales saying some schools might be able to have a phased opening.
30
29/01/2021 10:57:00 12 1
bbc
Northern Ireland did the same and it worked better for us.

How did Englands approach go again? That's right, we've had >30,000 Covid related deaths since christmas.
31
29/01/2021 10:58:46 22 7
bbc
I said this back in March. It was, and still is, quite common for pupils to re-do a year, for any number of reasons. Put all pupils in the same boat, then none will be disadvantaged. In fact it might be beneficial as those who left school in 2019 did not have the chance to join apprenticeships or enter work, so now there will be two year groups after the same posts, which aren't even there yet..
39
29/01/2021 11:14:00 10 7
bbc
But where will they be educated if the schools do not have the space or the teaching staff?
49
29/01/2021 11:20:18 3 2
bbc
Two of our kids had to repeat a secondary year overseas in the UK system due to administrative issues and dates between schools. It was worrying at the time obviously but both went on to university eventually, and achieved first and upper second degrees. One has since started up their own business.
Bottom line repeating a year anywhere doesn’t have to be a problem, it might even be an advantage!
64
29/01/2021 11:26:58 2 3
bbc
Great, where do you put the new intake at the bottom?
132
29/01/2021 11:52:02 4 4
bbc
It was a daft idea then as it is now. Who would teach them? Two additional year groups? Hundreds of thousands of additional pupils? Where would you teach them?
160
29/01/2021 12:02:22 0 1
bbc
You had incredible foresight back in March. No money was wasted on your education.
165
29/01/2021 12:03:43 1 1
bbc
Although I would say that they don't all do a whole lot better.
396
29/01/2021 14:10:39 0 2
bbc
I agree. Just redo the year for all students university included. Central government can cover the marginal extra cost. First year intake are just delayed a year. No capacity issues. Students who have a viable other option would be free to take that. Many jobs will be in short supply anyway.
5
29/01/2021 10:26:06 42 11
bbc
Can’t help but think England should’ve closed a week early before Christmas like schools in Wales, who are now looking at a phased reopening after the February half term because of falling cases.
32
29/01/2021 11:00:34 3 7
bbc
"Can’t help but think England should’ve closed a week early before Christmas like schools in Wales, who are now looking at a phased reopening after the February half term because of falling cases."

That assumes that closure of schools 6 weeks ago in Wales & Scotland (as opposed to 5 weeks in England) is linked to a fall in cases now.

I don't think we can say for sure, there are so many factors
6
29/01/2021 10:29:25 99 5
bbc
In principle, sure? Why not.

In practice our class sizes are already too large without a load of extra kids joining them. Its also an interesting gamble on final outcome. Do you chance your 2021 exam results and be in the year with fewer university applications or do you gamble you'll do MUCH better next year and chance being in the year with 50% more uni applications than normal?
33
29/01/2021 11:03:52 153 9
bbc
Society really does need to rethink the uni is the norm for so many.

3 or 4 years, and an aver of 40k debt, often followed by low wages ( such that so few c25% will repay that debt).

A good uni degree used to be a passport to a decent life, today it has simply replaced a decent school education for many jobs, many not well enough paid to clear debts.
76
29/01/2021 11:31:14 19 2
bbc
What's worse is, HR departments up and down the land have put a blanket requires a degree on many positions when in reality it does not.

Not all students benefit from an academic education, instead vocational training and apprenticeships need a fund overhaul.

The most logical step these days are sponsored degrees following apprenticeship, that way earn while learning and no 50k worth of debt.
125
29/01/2021 11:49:20 3 1
bbc
Good A-Levels used to be that passport, the degree just gave you the opportunity to have that decent life in a job you really loved.
175
29/01/2021 12:09:42 4 2
bbc
Depends upon which degree you choose and where you study. Maths at Cambridge vs Tourism or Media at a.n.other etc. Can still be a very good choice
207
29/01/2021 12:29:11 3 2
bbc
Forcing cost of university onto the students has meant uni is at risk of becoming a privilege. It not the middle class kids that won't go
210
29/01/2021 12:31:51 2 2
bbc
Misleading post. Look at the ONS lifetime earnings data for graduates versus non graduates. The other thing is that a poorly educated population lets in a dangerous figure like Trump. It can happen here too.
238
29/01/2021 12:45:41 2 3
bbc
The Uni funding model is a swindle aimed at funding Tory donors.
It costs the country more to pay off the remaining loans when they come due after 30 years than it would cost to pay it all up front.

The UK gov base rate being so much lower than the rate charged on student loans means the amount unpaid grows to more than the entire debt with base rate interest by the time it comes due.
250
29/01/2021 12:52:32 5 1
bbc
I agree but not new news. Uni has been an "everyone goes" for years now. I know people back early 2000's that did mickey mouse degrees worth nothing and ended up stacking shelves with huge debts. Pushing everyone to Uni isn't a good idea, often the better option is a trade. We can't all be Engineers, scientists (and lawyers).
461
29/01/2021 14:47:42 3 1
bbc
You don't have to go to University.
6
29/01/2021 10:29:25 99 5
bbc
In principle, sure? Why not.

In practice our class sizes are already too large without a load of extra kids joining them. Its also an interesting gamble on final outcome. Do you chance your 2021 exam results and be in the year with fewer university applications or do you gamble you'll do MUCH better next year and chance being in the year with 50% more uni applications than normal?
34
29/01/2021 11:05:58 3 13
bbc
Why do class sizes increase is all years repeat?
108
29/01/2021 11:43:24 9 2
bbc
Because the kids who are scheduled to start next year will still start next year. More kids will be entering the school system while less leave. Its pretty simple really.
221
29/01/2021 12:38:04 3 1
bbc
"Why do class sizes increase is all years repeat?"

Because there is a new cohort of the youngest children. Where do the new children go?
233
29/01/2021 12:43:54 3 1
bbc
I think you need to go back to school for a n extra year of maths.
639
29/01/2021 18:26:21 1 0
bbc
If you're suggesting that every year is effectively held back then they don't. You then need to find sufficient space, resources and teachers to teach around a million extra kids, who would normally have left for college, uni, work, etc.
716
30/01/2021 18:43:10 0 0
bbc
They don't but a new cohort would still enter at the bottom hence all infant primary schools would have an extra repection year any thing from 30 -90 children ( or more) depending on the size of school. This will cause a staffing, funding and room issue. My school would need 3 more classrooms, 3 more teachers, 3 more TAs etc.
35
Ros
29/01/2021 10:55:25 2 1
bbc
My son is stuck in groundhog day. This is the third time he has taken year 1 in college as he works towards his A levels.. It has pushed him and me as his mother to our limit, had him question "why bother", messed up his sleep routine (why get out of bed?) in the end it got to the point he nearly dropped out of college completely, but we are worried if he will ever get past year 1
63
29/01/2021 11:26:05 1 3
bbc
So he failed the first attempt all on his own (pre-covid), failed the second attempt (only one term was affected there), and is failing the third attempt despite the first two attempts that should have made this easier? Don't give him excuses! Give him a routine.
36
sci
29/01/2021 11:07:53 4 7
bbc
I can't imagine that separating youngsters from their friends, by putting them into a lower year group to repeat a school year, would be very good for their mental health.
38
29/01/2021 11:13:05 4 1
bbc
Has always happened in the past though, not in large numbers however.
37
29/01/2021 11:12:17 50 3
bbc
Whilst I strongly agree with the sentiment, the reality is that there may well not be the space or teaching staff in schools to handle the extra pupils.
41
29/01/2021 11:14:56 23 7
bbc
In the UK we give out children 4 extra years of compulsory schooling compared to many other 'advanced' countries. So with a bit of creativity there is the capacity to do this.
36
sci
29/01/2021 11:07:53 4 7
bbc
I can't imagine that separating youngsters from their friends, by putting them into a lower year group to repeat a school year, would be very good for their mental health.
38
29/01/2021 11:13:05 4 1
bbc
Has always happened in the past though, not in large numbers however.
31
29/01/2021 10:58:46 22 7
bbc
I said this back in March. It was, and still is, quite common for pupils to re-do a year, for any number of reasons. Put all pupils in the same boat, then none will be disadvantaged. In fact it might be beneficial as those who left school in 2019 did not have the chance to join apprenticeships or enter work, so now there will be two year groups after the same posts, which aren't even there yet..
39
29/01/2021 11:14:00 10 7
bbc
But where will they be educated if the schools do not have the space or the teaching staff?
69
29/01/2021 11:28:20 0 3
bbc
At home online. Why do you assume, school is the best / only place to learn?
258
29/01/2021 12:57:05 1 2
bbc
well universities would be missing most of an intake year seeing as they would be resitting a year. if a university cant figure out how to teach the final year of A'levels then maybe they shouldn't be teaching degrees?
40
29/01/2021 11:14:13 16 9
bbc
This just clarifies what we already knew: kids have lost a year of their lives in lockdown. Life doesn't get 'delayed', it just gets lost - noone will get a year of their life reimbursed at the end.
I've lost loved ones to covid and I don't dispute how serious the situation is. The average covid death costs someone 10 years of their life. The lockdowns have cost everyone 1 year of theirs.
52
29/01/2021 11:22:46 16 13
bbc
Rubbish, the lockdowns have cost most people a couple of weeks of holiday and some nights out, some people on furlough have gained months off work but still paid, and - on-topic - (for many pupils) a couple of terms of partial schooling that could be made up with government money and summer schools (to minimise the number who need to repeat the year), should teachers for these be found.
195
29/01/2021 12:21:22 3 3
bbc
Are you really equating a year of disrupted education with losing 10 years of life?
37
29/01/2021 11:12:17 50 3
bbc
Whilst I strongly agree with the sentiment, the reality is that there may well not be the space or teaching staff in schools to handle the extra pupils.
41
29/01/2021 11:14:56 23 7
bbc
In the UK we give out children 4 extra years of compulsory schooling compared to many other 'advanced' countries. So with a bit of creativity there is the capacity to do this.
130
29/01/2021 11:50:27 2 2
bbc
would you care to offer an example of the creative thinking to which you refer?
42
29/01/2021 11:15:03 4 1
bbc
I think if families are comfortable with the arrangement that’s fair enough. Only question is how it would impact on those starting this coming autumn and class space.
43
29/01/2021 11:15:28 7 2
bbc
So the think-tank think only a small number of pupils should be allowed to do this, what criteria would they use? Have the thinkers thought it through?
329
29/01/2021 13:26:29 2 2
bbc
Yeah, it should be everyone. You'd both start and finish school a year later.
44
29/01/2021 11:17:28 26 20
bbc
All years should be held back for one year
117
29/01/2021 11:46:05 14 4
bbc
But what about the 3-4 year olds who would move into formal education next year? Where do they go in an already full school?
131
29/01/2021 11:50:43 2 4
bbc
Perhaps you could explain who would teach them and where they would be taught? You would have to accommodate all those children, then the reception pupils, and year 11 pupils retaking the year. Who would teach them?!!!
180
Vk
29/01/2021 12:12:09 11 3
bbc
You'd have to raise the starting age, perhaps permanently. Which might not be a bad thing. Many other countries don't start formal education until later than us and their children seen to do well.
198
29/01/2021 12:25:14 3 3
bbc
There are just so many practical issues with this.
No space in nurseries - plus cost to parents of an extra year.
FE and HE would have an empty year - who is going to fund them to stay open and not teach.
Getting all the teenagers in the country to accept that they have to stay in school for another year - no thanks - most don't want to be there anyway.
264
29/01/2021 12:49:52 3 2
bbc
Totally agree! What UK child hasn't suffered adverse consequences from a year of disruption! Our children already start primary school way earlier than in other countries; just extend pre-school funding and delay primary start. Every child needs to repeat year. Would take pressure off kids and teachers now.
294
GEH
29/01/2021 13:10:31 1 1
bbc
This would also mean pupils could sit exams as normal and their qualifications will have some validity. The current suggestion of them studying half the syllabus and not sitting exams but getting results that match other cohorts is deeply flawed.
446
29/01/2021 14:46:36 2 2
bbc
It is not possible to simply cancel this school year and begin again. Some students would benefit from repeating a year, many would not. There would be great organisational problems, as some people are pointing out here.
690
30/01/2021 13:11:00 2 0
bbc
No thank you. Some schools have done an excellent job, teaching a live full curriculum and minimised the academic impact on their pupils.
I don't want my son bored stupid next year, studying content he has already covered.
A Good idea for those who need it but must be optional.
5
29/01/2021 10:26:06 42 11
bbc
Can’t help but think England should’ve closed a week early before Christmas like schools in Wales, who are now looking at a phased reopening after the February half term because of falling cases.
45
29/01/2021 11:17:45 1 1
bbc
Until schools go back.

Wales ended its 17 day ld in autumn, cases dipped, but not enough, so rose quickly, reentered ld again.

Same in Eng - too soft and short ld saw dip, and then rapid rises as eased.

School kids, esp teens e.g. the exam years likely to be prioritised again, are a proven vector for virus spread into homes.

A few wks may help, but it wont fill gap of missing months.
46
29/01/2021 11:18:21 2 7
bbc
Sadly due to government policy, school classes are packed. For someone to repeat a year, then someone in the year below also needs to repeat a year, all the way down, to make space. However the only pupils who will really want to repeat a year will be those in exam years who perform worse than they wanted. How about Summer catch-up school, with need assessed by summer term in-class testing.
57
29/01/2021 11:24:57 4 10
bbc
They're packed due to 600k immigration a year, something most BBC fans fully support.
47
29/01/2021 11:19:00 85 21
bbc
So glad we have teachers doing children's education, and not Daily Mail readers.
62
29/01/2021 11:26:03 39 126
bbc
Of course teachers know best! Methinks not. Too many left learning progressives / apologists with daft ideas about how to teach. No wonder we don't have an effective online curriculum despite 9 months of the Pandemic.
453
29/01/2021 14:48:28 0 4
bbc
Based on what I am hearing teachers are not doing much in the way of educating children at the moment
16
Ugg
29/01/2021 10:41:03 3 10
bbc
Keeping schools open throughout the Easter and summer holidays this year would give kids at least some catch-up time?
48
29/01/2021 11:19:45 2 1
bbc
You would have to find someone to teach them....
31
29/01/2021 10:58:46 22 7
bbc
I said this back in March. It was, and still is, quite common for pupils to re-do a year, for any number of reasons. Put all pupils in the same boat, then none will be disadvantaged. In fact it might be beneficial as those who left school in 2019 did not have the chance to join apprenticeships or enter work, so now there will be two year groups after the same posts, which aren't even there yet..
49
29/01/2021 11:20:18 3 2
bbc
Two of our kids had to repeat a secondary year overseas in the UK system due to administrative issues and dates between schools. It was worrying at the time obviously but both went on to university eventually, and achieved first and upper second degrees. One has since started up their own business.
Bottom line repeating a year anywhere doesn’t have to be a problem, it might even be an advantage!
50
29/01/2021 11:21:41 34 11
bbc
Raise the starting age to 7 instead of 5 as in many other developed countries. We have just raised the leaving age from 16 to18, defer that by repeating year 11 & 13 which will mean students not leaving until they are 19. It is do-able. Things are not like they were in the 70's when I could leave at 14 and go into a job. Children typically leave home and marry at a much older age these days.
84
29/01/2021 11:33:52 14 16
bbc
So we now force more children to spend more time in education, for what? There are many jobs that need to be done, such as roofing, scaffolding refuse collection, post sorting, driving etc that require few / no qualifications. Let young people leave school when they are ready, get jobs, marry and get a mortgage when they are 16 and not 30.
88
29/01/2021 11:35:56 3 2
bbc
Leaving age was 16 in the 70s.
133
29/01/2021 11:52:41 3 4
bbc
Early years is underfunded by a huge amount already. Imagine how dire the situation would be if nurseries and pre-schools had to cater for another 2 years of pupils without adequate funding.
271
29/01/2021 12:52:00 2 1
bbc
Totally agree - all kids have disruption for a whole year. How on earth can the current year ten have any chance of fair and accurate GCSE assessment / predictions next year! Dont even need to raise starting age to 7! The currently start at age 4, the academic year they turn 5! Ridiculous!
443
29/01/2021 14:43:32 4 1
bbc
This system works well in Scandinavian countries, but in the UK we have a large group of children coming to school with poor language and social skills because they have been poorly parented. Some early years children apparently lack manual dexterity because they have spent all their time on touch screens. These children need to start as soon as possible. I taught in some tough secondary schools.
51
29/01/2021 11:22:10 1 1
bbc
In a single class children educational and maturity levels differs by 1 or 2 years, so kids will catch up.
40
29/01/2021 11:14:13 16 9
bbc
This just clarifies what we already knew: kids have lost a year of their lives in lockdown. Life doesn't get 'delayed', it just gets lost - noone will get a year of their life reimbursed at the end.
I've lost loved ones to covid and I don't dispute how serious the situation is. The average covid death costs someone 10 years of their life. The lockdowns have cost everyone 1 year of theirs.
52
29/01/2021 11:22:46 16 13
bbc
Rubbish, the lockdowns have cost most people a couple of weeks of holiday and some nights out, some people on furlough have gained months off work but still paid, and - on-topic - (for many pupils) a couple of terms of partial schooling that could be made up with government money and summer schools (to minimise the number who need to repeat the year), should teachers for these be found.
187
zoe
29/01/2021 12:14:22 4 1
bbc
And what about the people who have work throughout and their families, they didn't get months off work unpaid. Not only did they work through all this they couldn't do anything else on any rest days due to lockdown and their children missed out most. Children have suffered massively in this and we now need to do al we can to support them, they are the future
11
29/01/2021 10:37:48 3 8
bbc
IF schools can open March 8th-they could remain open until end of August.A short 4 day break over easter the same in may,a few days off end of june and a week at the end of august.This will at least help by 8 to 10 weeks the non exam groups catch-up.This practical step will have the support of all who care about childrens wellbeing and future education!!!!!!!!!
53
29/01/2021 11:22:52 6 1
bbc
And where are the extra teachers for this coming from? People really don’t understand how educational facilities work. Schools have been open throughout lockdown and teachers have been working both with face to face teaching for key workers children and for online learning.
70
29/01/2021 11:28:57 3 1
bbc
Quite agree. I am fed up with this myth that schools have been "closed". Workload has actually been much higher delivering face to face classes for at least 30% of pupils and the rest online. Why not compulsory redeploy private school teachers and require they have a class size of 30+?
54
29/01/2021 11:23:14 9 4
bbc
Good idea. In general students should be held back (like they are in Germany) until they reach the required minimum standard for the particular Year Group. This will ensure standards rise. After all who would want to be 14 but still in a Year 7 class!
82
29/01/2021 11:33:30 5 5
bbc
Indeed Col B, however unfortunately in this damn country there would be a never ending trail of certain parents and wide boys representing various firms of Solicitors being paraded on the BBC, other news outlets are available, giving off about their childrens mental health and threats to sue education authorities for Human Rights infringements. What have we become?
112
29/01/2021 11:33:50 3 1
bbc
In Germany there's a limit on how often you can stay down: generally twice.
143
29/01/2021 11:55:53 1 2
bbc
and as a taxpayer I assume you'd be happy to pay for all the extra space and teachers required to provide for that massive increase in students?
55
29/01/2021 11:24:16 3 13
bbc
I'm a bit puzzled why teachers are saying they are continuing to work but every parent I know complains that they are home-schooling.

Something seems wrong here.
71
29/01/2021 11:29:13 5 2
bbc
Something seems wrong with your comment - you think teachers only work while the kids are in school?
85
29/01/2021 11:34:41 3 2
bbc
The teachers can't be in other peoples' homes making sure the kids are working. They are preparing and giving the lessons though.
107
29/01/2021 11:43:14 2 1
bbc
Teachers are sat behind a desk either at home or in an empty classroom teaching every student in every class they have for the full school day, delivering the curriculum as best they can present conditions. Parents are 'home schooling' and realising that little johnny has the attention span of a gnat and needs about 5000 prompts to remain on task and stop doing handstands in the lounge.
123
29/01/2021 11:48:24 1 1
bbc
John, just because most children are at not in the classroom and 'home-schooling' (the correct term is home learning) doesn't mean that teachers are not working. Some teachers are teaching live via Teams so children in class and at home get a similar experience. Others are devising home learning packs with worksheets, resources for families without access to the internet or a PC, tablet etc.
148
29/01/2021 11:57:58 0 2
bbc
oh I seem to have it a raw nerve amongst the teachers

I wasn't suggesting that teachers were doing no work at all, I was just questioning how much.

This probably varies quite a bit as the responses above are a little divergent from what some parents are saying
56
29/01/2021 11:24:26 3 4
bbc
How would this work in practice? Schools would in effect need to have the capacity for an extra year's worth of pupils.
60
Wet
29/01/2021 11:25:54 2 1
bbc
It says in the article that this would only apply to limited numbers. (It doesn't say how they would be chosen.)
46
29/01/2021 11:18:21 2 7
bbc
Sadly due to government policy, school classes are packed. For someone to repeat a year, then someone in the year below also needs to repeat a year, all the way down, to make space. However the only pupils who will really want to repeat a year will be those in exam years who perform worse than they wanted. How about Summer catch-up school, with need assessed by summer term in-class testing.
57
29/01/2021 11:24:57 4 10
bbc
They're packed due to 600k immigration a year, something most BBC fans fully support.
16
Ugg
29/01/2021 10:41:03 3 10
bbc
Keeping schools open throughout the Easter and summer holidays this year would give kids at least some catch-up time?
58
mc
29/01/2021 11:12:43 0 5
bbc
so 4 teachers not working by look of it so far
59
29/01/2021 11:25:27 7 6
bbc
I agree with this otherwise it's grossly unfair to those who have been through this and leaves them at a disadvantage. Pensioners get your hands in your pockets as we have spent billions to save you from Covid.
56
29/01/2021 11:24:26 3 4
bbc
How would this work in practice? Schools would in effect need to have the capacity for an extra year's worth of pupils.
60
Wet
29/01/2021 11:25:54 2 1
bbc
It says in the article that this would only apply to limited numbers. (It doesn't say how they would be chosen.)
61
29/01/2021 11:25:59 18 6
bbc
Totally agree - my kids would definitely benefit from this. Their school has tried but failed to do remote teaching to any decent standard and we can only do so much whilst working full time.
135
29/01/2021 11:54:01 13 6
bbc
Who would teach them? You can't just magic up teachers to teach the new reception children and year 11s who have to stay on. Where would they be taught?
47
29/01/2021 11:19:00 85 21
bbc
So glad we have teachers doing children's education, and not Daily Mail readers.
62
29/01/2021 11:26:03 39 126
bbc
Of course teachers know best! Methinks not. Too many left learning progressives / apologists with daft ideas about how to teach. No wonder we don't have an effective online curriculum despite 9 months of the Pandemic.
77
29/01/2021 11:31:17 34 2
bbc
Talking of Daily Mail readers, step forward Colonel B. 'Methinks'? Please....
92
29/01/2021 11:37:36 26 5
bbc
Outstanding ignorance
110
29/01/2021 11:34:34 20 3
bbc
And your evidence for this opinion is...?
113
29/01/2021 11:44:52 13 2
bbc
It’s 12, actually. But don’t let counting get in the way, eh?!
116
29/01/2021 11:46:01 12 1
bbc
Colonel Boring
129
29/01/2021 11:50:03 32 5
bbc
What do you mean by left leaning? That we want everyone to have an equal opportunity to a good education, without prejudice or based on background etc? Or should we be a little right leaning, where you can get a better education if you've got the right parents (yes - I get private education exists) or only kids who might pass are taught well, forget the others. Is left leaning so very bad?
139
29/01/2021 11:54:32 35 3
bbc
Yeah, Lockdown has really held up my mass indoctrination of Year 7s. I was just about to go through Das Kapital with them when the virus struck. There goes my scheme of work on barricade building and forming workers collectives. Thank goodness there’s Ill informed people like you out there to call us teachers out eh?
158
29/01/2021 12:01:45 10 2
bbc
Wish I could be bothered to reply to this properly.
278
29/01/2021 13:05:09 2 2
bbc
C- Trolling. Must do better. See me after class.
282
29/01/2021 13:06:44 3 2
bbc
Wonderful! The B stands for Blimp, presumably! How to teach is very much influenced by OfSTED (that hotbed of left-leaning progressives). The curriculum is determined by HMG, whether it's delivered online or face-to-face, so best take that up with Gavin. What are these daft lefty ideas about how to teach? I'd be interested to know?
428
29/01/2021 14:28:59 2 1
bbc
REALLY? So you're training to teach now are to, you ensure the next generation know they should ... what exactly? Do you plan to force rote learning (which has been proven to do nothing to actually education) and bring back the cane? Or shall we respect the fact that teaching is a discipline underpinned be substantive research. That you apparently have done none of.
433
29/01/2021 14:34:04 1 3
bbc
The Beeb and ITv had very good televised learning in the 70s, I watched the repeats through the 80s. Unfortunately they are way too advanced for the curriculum today.
437
29/01/2021 14:35:39 1 1
bbc
You are 30 years out of date. New teachers are rigorously trained, possibly too much so, and you can be put on competence measures quickly if your lesson plans are not of the Ofsted approved pattern, or your students' results fall short of their predicted progress.
550
29/01/2021 15:55:06 2 0
bbc
An effective online curriculum depends on both teachers and students having access to a good laptop or desktop, with excellent internet connection, and a quiet room, so they can concentrate on the lesson. So many families don't have this luxury. Don't forget that most parents are working from home too, so find it hard to supervise their children's learning.
653
TJ
29/01/2021 22:46:36 1 0
bbc
Please define 'left learning progressive' and your valid evidence to supports this. The curriculum has not changed in the last 9 months as it is dictated by the government but the ability to deliver it has been inhibited by the DFE and Williamson's incompetence. Please enlighten us with your expertise and experience of teaching and the education system to provide credibility for your statement.
689
30/01/2021 12:51:49 0 0
bbc
What are you on about, teachers use evidence based learning to accelerate learning. Please read the research conducted by the Education Endowment Foundation, no teachers would ask students to copy off the board.
What exactly are these daft ideas?? Please tell me, or don't you have a clue what you are talking about??
722
RPH
30/01/2021 21:57:13 0 0
bbc
You, of course, could do better. You just choose not to...
35
Ros
29/01/2021 10:55:25 2 1
bbc
My son is stuck in groundhog day. This is the third time he has taken year 1 in college as he works towards his A levels.. It has pushed him and me as his mother to our limit, had him question "why bother", messed up his sleep routine (why get out of bed?) in the end it got to the point he nearly dropped out of college completely, but we are worried if he will ever get past year 1
63
29/01/2021 11:26:05 1 3
bbc
So he failed the first attempt all on his own (pre-covid), failed the second attempt (only one term was affected there), and is failing the third attempt despite the first two attempts that should have made this easier? Don't give him excuses! Give him a routine.
31
29/01/2021 10:58:46 22 7
bbc
I said this back in March. It was, and still is, quite common for pupils to re-do a year, for any number of reasons. Put all pupils in the same boat, then none will be disadvantaged. In fact it might be beneficial as those who left school in 2019 did not have the chance to join apprenticeships or enter work, so now there will be two year groups after the same posts, which aren't even there yet..
64
29/01/2021 11:26:58 2 3
bbc
Great, where do you put the new intake at the bottom?
65
29/01/2021 11:27:29 172 5
bbc
Of course: one of the biggest issues in contemporary education is the insistence that all pupils move through the system in age-related lockstep rather than progress at their own pace.
150
29/01/2021 11:58:17 95 5
bbc
Bang on, most do fit the curve, but there's no room for manoeuvre (up or down) and we have gravitated to a system that rewards mediocrity.
Get rid of the National Curriculum too, it stiffles education, it may promote league tables and publishing companies, but does not educate!
193
29/01/2021 12:19:03 14 8
bbc
Schooling is a totally out of date system pretending to be for education when as has been made thoroughly clear it is only free childcare. That is what the half open schools are allowed for. Herds by age is an appalling mass average botch job good enough for basic factory fodder not this age when we are individuals and the means are easily available not ever to use old schooling means ever again.
227
29/01/2021 12:40:42 5 5
bbc
Individual assessment and planning can only be obtained with full individual support by a TA.
277
29/01/2021 13:05:01 1 1
bbc
Agree. Worked out quite well for Adam Sandler
299
29/01/2021 12:58:55 5 1
bbc
100%

The evidence for mastery learning is good. The evidence for repeating a year isn’t.
311
29/01/2021 13:18:57 13 6
bbc
Agreed. Those at the top of a class are held back while the slowest catch up. But the left frown on selection & streaming, its seen as unfair they prefer to see everyone receive a participation medal rather than be allowed to fail or excel
441
29/01/2021 14:42:16 1 2
bbc
The clown and cabinet are actually still completing their education at their own pace; how long will it be before they talk sense?
465
29/01/2021 14:55:03 3 1
bbc
Cries of horror that children are falling behind academically do not take into account that what they are “falling behind” are artificial targets set by the government, especially at primary school level. They will learn what they need to learn when they get back in the classroom.
485
29/01/2021 15:04:00 1 0
bbc
I suppose it wouldn't matter if 15 year olds were in year 4 for a few years....would it?
640
29/01/2021 18:30:36 1 2
bbc
So pupils have to find new friends if they move up
They are ridiculed if they repeat a year and made to feel like a dunce
157 "idealists" v 4"realists"
That is seriously worrying about the people who contribute to this conversation
GET REAL
669
30/01/2021 02:25:23 1 0
bbc
If my son had been allowed to progress at is own pace he would have been in primary school again this year.... he's 32 years old
66
29/01/2021 11:27:31 6 4
bbc
Im no politician, or indeed academic (5 scraped o levels) however its strange that around May/June last year I suggested this to my wife as the most sensible solution for all concerned. Now, almost a year later and after much shouting and ranting by teachers and parents, the 'genius' politicians and academics within our country have finally come up with this suggestion. Speaks volumes really.
25
29/01/2021 10:41:51 8 9
bbc
In this instance "think tank" really is an oxymoron.

Do these Einsteins really imagine for a second that most kids have the least desire to repeat a year.

This just goes to show how totally detached these fools are from how things work in the real world.

"Fairness to young people"

Empty words! That would have meant never shutting schools in the first place, and now opening them at once.
67
29/01/2021 11:27:34 1 1
bbc
Think tanks are usually more political than intellectual.
68
29/01/2021 11:27:42 66 2
bbc
Time spent at school doesn't equal amount learnt, just as time spent at work doesn't equal productivity.
All sorts of things affect learning: attitude, ability, support level, personal circumstances, learning environment, ability to self-learn, etc.
One kid could probably catch up on a missed year in a few weeks with a textbook at home, another kid could repeat a year and still not get it.
115
29/01/2021 11:45:01 22 4
bbc
I agree that time could be spent far more efficiently. However, 'text' book learning is not what goes on in schools these days, teaching is far more sophisticated. Unfortunately the general population, employers and ministers still think in terms of the 3Rs. Exams require understanding and application of learning as opposed to regurgitated facts. The world of work fails to tap into this.
318
29/01/2021 13:08:23 1 1
bbc
That’s true.

Some are suggesting concentrating on soft skills - it’s a good idea. Teaching a child healthy productive habits & self-regulation makes a child more committed to learning.

Unfortunately policy seems to be decided by people who prefer a Victorian classical approach where children are forced to be at desks facing the front, memorising facts & fighting the process all the way
360
29/01/2021 13:42:20 0 1
bbc
Excellent point.
39
29/01/2021 11:14:00 10 7
bbc
But where will they be educated if the schools do not have the space or the teaching staff?
69
29/01/2021 11:28:20 0 3
bbc
At home online. Why do you assume, school is the best / only place to learn?
136
29/01/2021 11:54:14 4 2
bbc
okay, who will be delivering the online lessons? All the teachers will be teaching already. Perhaps we could get the army of education experts such as yourself to deliver the online learning?
53
29/01/2021 11:22:52 6 1
bbc
And where are the extra teachers for this coming from? People really don’t understand how educational facilities work. Schools have been open throughout lockdown and teachers have been working both with face to face teaching for key workers children and for online learning.
70
29/01/2021 11:28:57 3 1
bbc
Quite agree. I am fed up with this myth that schools have been "closed". Workload has actually been much higher delivering face to face classes for at least 30% of pupils and the rest online. Why not compulsory redeploy private school teachers and require they have a class size of 30+?
55
29/01/2021 11:24:16 3 13
bbc
I'm a bit puzzled why teachers are saying they are continuing to work but every parent I know complains that they are home-schooling.

Something seems wrong here.
71
29/01/2021 11:29:13 5 2
bbc
Something seems wrong with your comment - you think teachers only work while the kids are in school?
16
Ugg
29/01/2021 10:41:03 3 10
bbc
Keeping schools open throughout the Easter and summer holidays this year would give kids at least some catch-up time?
72
29/01/2021 11:29:47 2 1
bbc
It's the best solution, but... the problem is that teachers will need time off, and time to prepare the next term's work. Some will be willing to do a couple of weeks to help pupils catch up, IF the government pays for it. Another problem is that different pupils will be behind in different ways, so a general catch-up class will be ineffective.
25
29/01/2021 10:41:51 8 9
bbc
In this instance "think tank" really is an oxymoron.

Do these Einsteins really imagine for a second that most kids have the least desire to repeat a year.

This just goes to show how totally detached these fools are from how things work in the real world.

"Fairness to young people"

Empty words! That would have meant never shutting schools in the first place, and now opening them at once.
73
29/01/2021 11:30:10 1 1
bbc
Think tank is not an oxymoron "seriously funny" is. An Oxymoron is the linking of 2 words that mean the opposite "think" and "tank" are not opposites. Still, you could repeat the year
21
29/01/2021 10:43:57 6 6
bbc
As long as this only applied to children who hadn't been able to access the work at home. Many many children have continued to work very hard and it would be unfair to make them attend school in their holidays when they've been following a full timetable.
74
29/01/2021 11:30:24 0 1
bbc
I presume the need for the remedial catch-up classes would be assessed once the pupils return to school.
75
29/01/2021 11:30:57 3 17
bbc
Why don't they just cancel the 6 week summer holiday for a starters? In normal times, schools are shut for 13 weeks anyway so there is plenty of spare time.

Teachers have had it far too easy during the last year.
95
29/01/2021 11:37:55 2 2
bbc
cant imagine saying teachers have it easy is going to do you any favours
161
29/01/2021 11:48:06 1 1
bbc
Teacher workload has increased with the need to teach children in school and online. Students were also in for a term being taught by teachers with only open windows as protection. Teachers are paid by the hour, so you'd have to pay for holiday work. And are you also arguing the 8 million furloughed workers should get no holiday entitlement until they've "worked off" lock down? Thought not.
363
29/01/2021 13:45:48 0 1
bbc
You are incredibly ill informed.
33
29/01/2021 11:03:52 153 9
bbc
Society really does need to rethink the uni is the norm for so many.

3 or 4 years, and an aver of 40k debt, often followed by low wages ( such that so few c25% will repay that debt).

A good uni degree used to be a passport to a decent life, today it has simply replaced a decent school education for many jobs, many not well enough paid to clear debts.
76
29/01/2021 11:31:14 19 2
bbc
What's worse is, HR departments up and down the land have put a blanket requires a degree on many positions when in reality it does not.

Not all students benefit from an academic education, instead vocational training and apprenticeships need a fund overhaul.

The most logical step these days are sponsored degrees following apprenticeship, that way earn while learning and no 50k worth of debt.
111
29/01/2021 11:44:06 2 1
bbc
Agreed but the same problem remains. Those will be less in demand this year and more in demand next year so competition will be harder.
334
29/01/2021 13:27:24 1 2
bbc
No they have not you are talking rubbish.

As someone who regularly interviews people for roles on large projects in one of the worlds biggest IT companies no such rule exists here, or in any other company I have worked for.
No such rule exists in the customers I work with.
We regularly employ those who gained their experience and qualifications without going to uni, as do our customers.
444
BD
29/01/2021 14:43:53 2 1
bbc
I agree on sponsored degrees. This is what I did a few decades ago in science. The day-release opportunity was available up to post-doctoral level. And me and my working, day-release peers had so much more experience and understanding to offer potential employers than the school-uni-we-know-it-all brigade ...
62
29/01/2021 11:26:03 39 126
bbc
Of course teachers know best! Methinks not. Too many left learning progressives / apologists with daft ideas about how to teach. No wonder we don't have an effective online curriculum despite 9 months of the Pandemic.
77
29/01/2021 11:31:17 34 2
bbc
Talking of Daily Mail readers, step forward Colonel B. 'Methinks'? Please....
99
29/01/2021 11:39:58 16 2
bbc
Possibly, although not enough CAPITAL LETTERS to mark their outrage
78
29/01/2021 11:31:37 2 4
bbc
Sensible idea bet the government did not come up with this.
Russian / Offshore Tax Dodgers Brexit and Chinese Covid have really screwed our young over, big time. Make Offshore tax dodgers, Russia and China pay.
80
29/01/2021 11:32:13 3 4
bbc
Schools are major contributor to infection rates, because it joins households by proxy.

If they play a big role in case rates why not open some of the other places first, like zoo's, it seems this government is intent on repeating its mistakes.
3
29/01/2021 10:25:30 116 21
bbc
Those who can, teach.

Those who can't, make disparaging comments about teachers.
81
29/01/2021 11:32:52 22 1
bbc
One thing we've learnt this past year is the value of teachers. Many parents have acknowledged they just don't have the time, patience or skills - not just to step up and support the academic side of education at this time of need, but also the behavioural side. I cringed watching a parent on tv saying she couldn't stop her child doing handstands rather than schoolwork- how did it get to that?
237
29/01/2021 12:45:22 1 6
bbc
because of psychology and peer pressure. A child at home will never react to instruction from parents the same as a teacher in a room full of 'friends'. Not understanding this is why teachers are not as clever as they think they are.
508
29/01/2021 15:19:05 2 0
bbc
The behaviours start in the home and transfer into the schools. Basically bad behaviour is home grown.
656
TJ
29/01/2021 22:56:56 1 0
bbc
Thank you for your support of teachers. It is appreciated. We are not perfect but the vast majority of us as working flat out and doing our best to support your children during this difficult time.
54
29/01/2021 11:23:14 9 4
bbc
Good idea. In general students should be held back (like they are in Germany) until they reach the required minimum standard for the particular Year Group. This will ensure standards rise. After all who would want to be 14 but still in a Year 7 class!
82
29/01/2021 11:33:30 5 5
bbc
Indeed Col B, however unfortunately in this damn country there would be a never ending trail of certain parents and wide boys representing various firms of Solicitors being paraded on the BBC, other news outlets are available, giving off about their childrens mental health and threats to sue education authorities for Human Rights infringements. What have we become?
169
29/01/2021 12:05:27 2 1
bbc
Really? You've heard this in relation to forcing students repeating a year? Never in 22 years of teaching have I come across this.
83
29/01/2021 11:33:33 3 2
bbc
This makes total sense to me & all it would do is put us in line with the vast majority of other countries who start there kid at school aged 6. some like America 7.
50
29/01/2021 11:21:41 34 11
bbc
Raise the starting age to 7 instead of 5 as in many other developed countries. We have just raised the leaving age from 16 to18, defer that by repeating year 11 & 13 which will mean students not leaving until they are 19. It is do-able. Things are not like they were in the 70's when I could leave at 14 and go into a job. Children typically leave home and marry at a much older age these days.
84
29/01/2021 11:33:52 14 16
bbc
So we now force more children to spend more time in education, for what? There are many jobs that need to be done, such as roofing, scaffolding refuse collection, post sorting, driving etc that require few / no qualifications. Let young people leave school when they are ready, get jobs, marry and get a mortgage when they are 16 and not 30.
55
29/01/2021 11:24:16 3 13
bbc
I'm a bit puzzled why teachers are saying they are continuing to work but every parent I know complains that they are home-schooling.

Something seems wrong here.
85
29/01/2021 11:34:41 3 2
bbc
The teachers can't be in other peoples' homes making sure the kids are working. They are preparing and giving the lessons though.
25
29/01/2021 10:41:51 8 9
bbc
In this instance "think tank" really is an oxymoron.

Do these Einsteins really imagine for a second that most kids have the least desire to repeat a year.

This just goes to show how totally detached these fools are from how things work in the real world.

"Fairness to young people"

Empty words! That would have meant never shutting schools in the first place, and now opening them at once.
86
Wet
29/01/2021 11:35:07 0 2
bbc
Nobody want to have to do "one more year of schooling", but if they are actually serious about getting their education, they will consider doing it.
6
29/01/2021 10:29:25 99 5
bbc
In principle, sure? Why not.

In practice our class sizes are already too large without a load of extra kids joining them. Its also an interesting gamble on final outcome. Do you chance your 2021 exam results and be in the year with fewer university applications or do you gamble you'll do MUCH better next year and chance being in the year with 50% more uni applications than normal?
87
29/01/2021 11:35:38 1 1
bbc
Nicely put, my choice would be chance it, particularly if key exams are at least 2 years away

A child's decision may be flavoured by:

Do they see themselves as a competent student?

- are they fired up to race through the curriculum, with hopefully a new found interest in effective studying with peers/teachers after a long, sporadic lay-off?

(I was a rubbish student 'til aged about 18!)
50
29/01/2021 11:21:41 34 11
bbc
Raise the starting age to 7 instead of 5 as in many other developed countries. We have just raised the leaving age from 16 to18, defer that by repeating year 11 & 13 which will mean students not leaving until they are 19. It is do-able. Things are not like they were in the 70's when I could leave at 14 and go into a job. Children typically leave home and marry at a much older age these days.
88
29/01/2021 11:35:56 3 2
bbc
Leaving age was 16 in the 70s.
21
29/01/2021 10:43:57 6 6
bbc
As long as this only applied to children who hadn't been able to access the work at home. Many many children have continued to work very hard and it would be unfair to make them attend school in their holidays when they've been following a full timetable.
89
Wet
29/01/2021 11:36:11 0 1
bbc
I don't think there is any intention to force pupils to stay down en bloc.
6
29/01/2021 10:29:25 99 5
bbc
In principle, sure? Why not.

In practice our class sizes are already too large without a load of extra kids joining them. Its also an interesting gamble on final outcome. Do you chance your 2021 exam results and be in the year with fewer university applications or do you gamble you'll do MUCH better next year and chance being in the year with 50% more uni applications than normal?
90
29/01/2021 11:36:20 5 1
bbc
In terms of exam students, I would imagine after last year the majority would be happy to take predicted grades and potentially only do small exams or no exams then wait a year and gamble on amazing exams raising their marks..
447
BD
29/01/2021 14:46:52 0 1
bbc
But what do those predicted grades tell an employer?
Apart from the fact that although the youngster may have potential, she or he has missed a year of valuable education ...
91
29/01/2021 11:37:11 0 2
bbc
the cost would be too much
62
29/01/2021 11:26:03 39 126
bbc
Of course teachers know best! Methinks not. Too many left learning progressives / apologists with daft ideas about how to teach. No wonder we don't have an effective online curriculum despite 9 months of the Pandemic.
92
29/01/2021 11:37:36 26 5
bbc
Outstanding ignorance
93
29/01/2021 11:37:37 0 1
bbc
Look how far we have come with education. We've gone from "should be made to repeat" to "should be allowed to repeat". Progress?
94
Wet
29/01/2021 11:37:49 2 1
bbc
This always happened in the past where someone has fallen behind and the school and family think it is a good idea. Have they stopped doing it? Is it just too inconvenient now? Kids who want to do a year repeat should be given the opportunity.
98
29/01/2021 11:39:32 3 1
bbc
pretty sure its about 6k (per child) to keep a child back a year, would be cheaper to give them intense one to one tuition
75
29/01/2021 11:30:57 3 17
bbc
Why don't they just cancel the 6 week summer holiday for a starters? In normal times, schools are shut for 13 weeks anyway so there is plenty of spare time.

Teachers have had it far too easy during the last year.
95
29/01/2021 11:37:55 2 2
bbc
cant imagine saying teachers have it easy is going to do you any favours
96
29/01/2021 11:38:11 2 3
bbc
2020 and 2021 exam results on a CV will be treated with more scorn and scepticism than exam results attained in other years. It's harsh on these kids and through no fault of their own.
100
29/01/2021 11:40:10 2 3
bbc
pure speculation
359
29/01/2021 13:41:42 0 1
bbc
I dunno they will have shown the ability to sit around all day being told what to do and what they’re not allowed to do by their superior masters whom have made some terrible decisions that make their lives harder

Sounds like great preparation for work to me
97
29/01/2021 11:38:56 8 2
bbc
Universities should refund some of their fees this year and offer the same option. At the moment you cannot retake your final year in most institutions. My two chldren have not met any lecturers face to face for a year. They were conned into going back in September and are paying for both the lectures that have gone on line and the accommodation they cannot use.
563
29/01/2021 16:00:30 1 0
bbc
But their lecturers are still working to prepare and present lectures...
94
Wet
29/01/2021 11:37:49 2 1
bbc
This always happened in the past where someone has fallen behind and the school and family think it is a good idea. Have they stopped doing it? Is it just too inconvenient now? Kids who want to do a year repeat should be given the opportunity.
98
29/01/2021 11:39:32 3 1
bbc
pretty sure its about 6k (per child) to keep a child back a year, would be cheaper to give them intense one to one tuition
77
29/01/2021 11:31:17 34 2
bbc
Talking of Daily Mail readers, step forward Colonel B. 'Methinks'? Please....
99
29/01/2021 11:39:58 16 2
bbc
Possibly, although not enough CAPITAL LETTERS to mark their outrage
96
29/01/2021 11:38:11 2 3
bbc
2020 and 2021 exam results on a CV will be treated with more scorn and scepticism than exam results attained in other years. It's harsh on these kids and through no fault of their own.
100
29/01/2021 11:40:10 2 3
bbc
pure speculation