UK borrowing hits highest December level on record
22/01/2021 | news | business | 461
Government borrowing hit £34.1bn last month, as the cost of pandemic support measures weighed on the economy.
We should pass the bill to the Chinese laboratory if it did originate there
This should never been allowed to happen
Removed
10
22/01/2021 10:45:11 15 20
bbc
So should we be liable for this current lockdown in europe given the most recent variant came from the UK?
73
22/01/2021 11:38:47 1 0
bbc
If it was proved beyond doubt that the virus did come from a Chinese laboratory due to bad bio security and all the C19 effected countries stuck together for reparations we might be lucky otherwise we’re just whistling in the wind ??
133
22/01/2021 12:14:25 0 0
bbc
But we have an English mutant and a South African mutant..so careful, the bill might be returned!
169
22/01/2021 12:46:56 1 0
bbc
I just spoke to China- they said they're happy to pay, just as soon as we pay for BSE and Foot & Mouth
179
22/01/2021 13:02:22 0 0
bbc
Be serious.
It was always going to happen

Our government was warned to expsct it 4 years avo, and made no provision for dealing with it.
We are fortunate researchers were working on other coroncirus vaccines, for flu, SARS, and MERS, and were able to produce vaccines so rapidly.
2
22/01/2021 10:38:13 3 3
bbc
Is this borrowing sustainable?
14
22/01/2021 10:47:02 3 4
bbc
Who cares. It will an unborn generation who will have to pay it back.
33
22/01/2021 11:04:25 1 1
bbc
In case you hadn't noticed, the entire economic system at the moment is unsustainable, in an objective scientific sense. Look up 'planetary boundaries' and the 'great acceleration'.

Deficit and borrowing are just ideas.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/reel/video/p08jbbry/why-we-need-to-debunk-the-deficit-myth-

Need to begin discussion by prioritising human and ecological needs, per Doughnut Economics
3
22/01/2021 10:40:04 11 13
bbc
More no s**t Sherlock journalism from the BBC.
8
22/01/2021 10:44:28 13 3
bbc
Would you rather know the facts or just make assumptions about what is going on in the world?
4
22/01/2021 10:40:07 0 2
bbc
Sustainable ?
I hope so.
5
22/01/2021 10:40:50 3 5
bbc
0% borrowing is a no brainer as this Government will be long gone when it has to be paid back.
54
22/01/2021 11:28:27 1 0
bbc
And every 1% increase adds £20bn to the annual cost at current debt levels
6
22/01/2021 10:42:12 61 8
bbc
Not surprising the amount the government is handing out to everyone
79
22/01/2021 11:41:39 49 4
bbc
Ive had nothing.
196
22/01/2021 13:17:53 12 7
bbc
Yeah the billions handed to fake PPE companies and many other close Tory donators with questionable companies needs an independent inquiry with jail time for those using taxpayers money to line the pockets of their friends. Neoliberalism is the cancer here.
204
22/01/2021 13:30:29 9 0
bbc
Indeed, but a lot people / companies abuse it. Anyone found to be profiteering from this should be publically humiliated and/or go to prison. I set up my own company just over a year ago so I was already prepared for no income for several months, but it ended up being a year. I had to keep working, no furlough for me, but I've coped. If others can cope, they should not ask for taxpayers' money.
310
22/01/2021 17:54:06 4 1
bbc
Yep, and no cost-benefit analysis to justify any of it. It's said to be about 'saving lives' but we have lost huge numbers of lives as well as wrecking the economy. If you take into account Quality Adjusted Life Years, & the fact that you don't improve the health of a nation by making it poorer, I'm sure the costs over the coming years will far exceed the benefits.
323
22/01/2021 19:07:08 2 0
bbc
I’ve just had to self isolate .... so tried to claim the £500 but because we aren’t on benefits we’re not able to claim

So I could claim the £5000 + available to me under the SEISS
403
23/01/2021 13:49:56 1 0
bbc
What annoys me about the article & UK journalism in general is the lies it perpetuates & what it doesn't tell us.

Since 2008 most Government borrowing has been through its bank, the BoE, buying Government corporate bonds:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/08/the-verdict-on-10-years-of-quantitative-easing
404
23/01/2021 13:51:35 1 0
bbc
The BoE is part of Government:

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/knowledgebank/who-owns-the-bank-of-england

The BoE has conjured the money it has used to buy Government bonds out of thin air.

The BoE has also been, since the 2008 crash, buying back Government bonds from financial institutions, who have in turn bought more Government bonds; and it's been going in that circular motion ever since.
405
23/01/2021 13:53:07 1 1
bbc
This is all funded by the money conjured out of thin air: it has redirected lots more wealth to the rich, whilst we have been sold the lie we need to repay it through austerity & wage freezes.

When interest rates are extremely low or, as they are currently, at a negative rate, institutions are paying the Government to look after their money.
406
23/01/2021 13:54:16 1 1
bbc
It's a game of smoke & mirrors proving that the economy has always been contrived & manipulated.

There is no need to raise our taxes, depress our wages or impose austerity on us. Will YOU fall for it again?
407
23/01/2021 13:56:02 1 1
bbc
If people doubt what I am saying they can read up on it here:

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/quantitative-easing

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/markets/market-notices/2020/asset-purchase-facility-additional-corporate-bond-purchases

It's not as if the process is being hidden, it's just glossed over by the media every now and again.

The WW2 debt dwarfs this debt.
413
23/01/2021 14:30:37 0 0
bbc
Nothing here...many have had their jobs removed by lockdowns.... so Govt has to pay-then charge us tax later (Autumn).

Tory spens and tax- whilst they are not bright enough to stop Neo lib privatised profit and socialised losses... now they might be able to see what they having been doing for Corp chums for 15 years at the expense of normal uk peoples living standards..
ps - Sweden did better.
426
PCS
23/01/2021 17:30:15 0 0
bbc
Not a penny in this household! Meanwhile if UK Gov had used its intelligence assets inside top level China state citadel via GCHQ, we might have done a New Zealand style holdoff, but just like WWII Enigma saving armed forces lives the UK did not want to reveal it's assets so UK lives have been sacrificed! And we'll never know the truth because of National Security!
7
22/01/2021 10:43:54 4 10
bbc
Debt is well over 2 trillion now, which is far worse than what labour left the tories with after the banking sector crash.

Disastrous
11
22/01/2021 10:45:53 7 7
bbc
Labour left a massive deficit, of course debt was going to rise
51
22/01/2021 11:26:37 0 0
bbc
How much has the economy grown in the same period?

Although we cannot afford the extra population in respect of housing etc current borrowing has always been on the back of an increasing economy being able to pay for it which is why a falling population has caused problems in other advanced nations
64
22/01/2021 11:34:12 0 1
bbc
Well done for showing you have absolutely no idea about the economy, or how the government had reduce a £160bn/year deficit inherited from Labour.

And then you also complain about austerity, which was government attempts to reduce the debt.

Hilarious.
3
22/01/2021 10:40:04 11 13
bbc
More no s**t Sherlock journalism from the BBC.
8
22/01/2021 10:44:28 13 3
bbc
Would you rather know the facts or just make assumptions about what is going on in the world?
12
22/01/2021 10:46:23 3 7
bbc
Sadly the BBC and facts have been strangers for a very long time.

Now if it is opinion you are after they are your guys.
31
22/01/2021 10:53:37 4 3
bbc
Facts? Dream on mate! The only "facts" the BBC and other media outlets publish are the ones they want you to know about.
60
22/01/2021 11:32:11 0 1
bbc
It's not the raw data I have issue with, it is the way it is reported.

We know why borrowing is at record highs.
219
22/01/2021 13:40:56 0 0
bbc
He already makes the assumptions to suit his beliefs.
9
22/01/2021 10:45:08 6 6
bbc
Oh my goodness what a shock The msm has driving project fear half of the country are now afraid of their own shadow and wont leave the house and are being paid to do nothing is it any wonder
13
22/01/2021 10:46:43 4 4
bbc
Yawn
We should pass the bill to the Chinese laboratory if it did originate there
This should never been allowed to happen
Removed
10
22/01/2021 10:45:11 15 20
bbc
So should we be liable for this current lockdown in europe given the most recent variant came from the UK?
18
22/01/2021 10:51:07 7 4
bbc
It didn't come from the UK, it was first identified here. Given it's spread through Kent and the SE, it is almost certain that it came form continental Europe in fact.
57
22/01/2021 11:30:29 2 4
bbc
It was first spotted in the UK because we were tracking it. Not necessarily here first though. Being in Kent could have come across the Channel?
83
22/01/2021 11:44:17 1 0
bbc
Go back to the source rather than its variants.
180
22/01/2021 13:03:15 0 0
bbc
What should we have paid towards the cost of BSE?
7
22/01/2021 10:43:54 4 10
bbc
Debt is well over 2 trillion now, which is far worse than what labour left the tories with after the banking sector crash.

Disastrous
11
22/01/2021 10:45:53 7 7
bbc
Labour left a massive deficit, of course debt was going to rise
15
22/01/2021 10:47:58 3 3
bbc
And how's that deficit after 10 years of tory austerity exactly? yeah it's still there
35
22/01/2021 11:08:20 1 3
bbc
National debt under labour 780 billion with great public services.
Debt under the Conservatives . 2 trillion with devastated public services.
Who has the money then ???
Think about that
344
22/01/2021 20:11:57 0 0
bbc
No they didn’t. The information is available if you want to look for it.
8
22/01/2021 10:44:28 13 3
bbc
Would you rather know the facts or just make assumptions about what is going on in the world?
12
22/01/2021 10:46:23 3 7
bbc
Sadly the BBC and facts have been strangers for a very long time.

Now if it is opinion you are after they are your guys.
17
22/01/2021 10:49:09 4 0
bbc
So where do you get your "truth" from, and if this is all false why are you here?

Why dont you highlight all of the opinions in that article
9
22/01/2021 10:45:08 6 6
bbc
Oh my goodness what a shock The msm has driving project fear half of the country are now afraid of their own shadow and wont leave the house and are being paid to do nothing is it any wonder
13
22/01/2021 10:46:43 4 4
bbc
Yawn
2
22/01/2021 10:38:13 3 3
bbc
Is this borrowing sustainable?
14
22/01/2021 10:47:02 3 4
bbc
Who cares. It will an unborn generation who will have to pay it back.
192
22/01/2021 13:13:22 0 0
bbc
Tru dat! Let's party like it's 1999!
11
22/01/2021 10:45:53 7 7
bbc
Labour left a massive deficit, of course debt was going to rise
15
22/01/2021 10:47:58 3 3
bbc
And how's that deficit after 10 years of tory austerity exactly? yeah it's still there
67
22/01/2021 11:36:25 0 0
bbc
The deficit came down every year, until the pandemic hit, at which point the government had no choice but to increase borrowing. Are you telling me Labour would not have increased borrowing.
16
22/01/2021 10:48:05 17 15
bbc
"The country is bankrupt."

"Kaputt, bust, broke" were other terms used.

That's what Tory politicians and Tory supporters said if John McDonnell borrowed a fraction of what Sunak has borrowed this year.

So Tory supporters, is the UK bankrupt or were you telling lies?
20
22/01/2021 10:54:44 23 8
bbc
Mmmm, yes. Well the point then (pre-Covid) was that Corbyn/McDonnell were planning to borrow these sums, indefinitely as I recall, when there wasn't a global pandemic that killed millions. Not quite a like-for-like comparison, is it.
30
22/01/2021 10:51:05 3 0
bbc
Its bankrupt but as money isn't real and has no real value, who cares?
68
22/01/2021 11:36:28 2 2
bbc
And Labour, by demanding more and more pandemic spending, prove that under them, the numbers would be much higher.
12
22/01/2021 10:46:23 3 7
bbc
Sadly the BBC and facts have been strangers for a very long time.

Now if it is opinion you are after they are your guys.
17
22/01/2021 10:49:09 4 0
bbc
So where do you get your "truth" from, and if this is all false why are you here?

Why dont you highlight all of the opinions in that article
10
22/01/2021 10:45:11 15 20
bbc
So should we be liable for this current lockdown in europe given the most recent variant came from the UK?
18
22/01/2021 10:51:07 7 4
bbc
It didn't come from the UK, it was first identified here. Given it's spread through Kent and the SE, it is almost certain that it came form continental Europe in fact.
24
22/01/2021 10:58:34 5 2
bbc
No. Either new variant B.1.1.7 originated in Kent, or the index case arrived in Kent from elsewhere somehow without seeding it anywhere else. This is clear from the lineages and genomics.

https://virological.org/t/preliminary-genomic-characterisation-of-an-emergent-sars-cov-2-lineage-in-the-uk-defined-by-a-novel-set-of-spike-mutations/563
26
22/01/2021 10:59:58 2 1
bbc
Exact same could be said about China, that was the point of my comment. Cases of COVID were spotted in europe in November 2019... before when china reported theirs
109
22/01/2021 12:00:22 0 0
bbc
strange that the cases were here though for quite some time before we exported it again, or is it better to assume that all the foreign devils kept quiet about it till they were safely in dover?
19
22/01/2021 10:51:43 35 11
bbc
Its about to get worse if the latest hair brained scheme is implemented People who have virtually zero risk from covid will be able to make sure they get it and get a nice fat taxpayer five hundred pounds for their trouble I'm afraid covid house parties will become well worth it.Unbelievable
32
22/01/2021 11:03:11 14 5
bbc
...hare-brained.
36
22/01/2021 11:10:06 2 4
bbc
Even from the point of view of maximising consumer spending, encouraging people to test and if necessary isolate is a good idea as it means you could reduce distancing by the uninfected and non-contacts.

Countries that contained Covid (like NZ) saw it as local public health measure, delivering essentials or quarantining in hotels as well as supporting income.

BTW "It's" "hare-brained".
38
22/01/2021 11:14:58 6 8
bbc
It's not what grows on your head but the things that run around like idiots without a clue about the direction they are going in. Bit like Johnson, Sunak and the rest of the Tories.
43
22/01/2021 11:20:53 1 2
bbc
Pay £800 fine to get £500 is not exactly clever though
185
22/01/2021 13:07:37 5 2
bbc
You really do have a low opinion of people, don't you?
Risking death, or long-term disability for £500?

On the other hand, they do risk their lives for a £10,000 fine, for a few hours of " fun" so you may be right.
198
22/01/2021 13:21:04 4 6
bbc
Never mind the billions handed to dodgy companies with close links to the tory party, its joe bloggs fault down the street for trying to make a living when the government tells them they cant work. Socialism for the rich, austerity for everyone else, but that is neoliberalism for you.
207
22/01/2021 13:32:29 3 3
bbc
It's mad. Incredible that this is coming from a Conservative Government - it is quite wild even by labour terms. Rishi has a lot of financial experience so I wonder what he is thinking. It is just a leak though so it might not happen.
237
22/01/2021 13:57:49 6 3
bbc
As has now been pointed out in small letters hidden on the BBC news site, the £500 idea was one from civil servants, not an actual policy, and it looks like Boris has rightly shot it down.
303
22/01/2021 17:34:17 2 0
bbc
Yes the media got excited but it is so stupid they are downplaying the suggestion. It was never got as far as intended.
16
22/01/2021 10:48:05 17 15
bbc
"The country is bankrupt."

"Kaputt, bust, broke" were other terms used.

That's what Tory politicians and Tory supporters said if John McDonnell borrowed a fraction of what Sunak has borrowed this year.

So Tory supporters, is the UK bankrupt or were you telling lies?
20
22/01/2021 10:54:44 23 8
bbc
Mmmm, yes. Well the point then (pre-Covid) was that Corbyn/McDonnell were planning to borrow these sums, indefinitely as I recall, when there wasn't a global pandemic that killed millions. Not quite a like-for-like comparison, is it.
27
22/01/2021 11:01:12 4 8
bbc
Doesn't matter. BoJo and co (like the usual culprit, Daily Mail) were at pains emphasising, just as Mayhem was before them, that there is no Magic Money Tree.

Suddenly, Sunak, again just as Mayhem before him, has found one!....
45
22/01/2021 11:22:19 5 1
bbc
Think how much more JC would have been borrowing - everyone being paid by the state to do nothing?
144
22/01/2021 12:26:18 2 3
bbc
Untrue. Corbyn/McDonnell were not planning to borrow indefinitely. And they were borrowing to invest in things like the NHS which would have been such a help during this pandemic.

Borrowing money to invest or borrowing money for the pandemic is still borrowing money. Either the country is bankrupt or not.

You failed to answer the question....just like a Tory would.
167
22/01/2021 12:45:52 1 2
bbc
Still borrowing the money. That' s like for like.
206
22/01/2021 13:32:14 1 1
bbc
Ignorance personified.
21
22/01/2021 10:54:54 18 11
bbc
Extended borrowing is not necessarily a problem, as even the City economists acknowledge.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/reel/video/p08jbbry/why-we-need-to-debunk-the-deficit-myth-

I worry that Sunak shares the half-educated view of economics that Osborne did when shooting the country in the foot. Should be thinking instead of _what_ undesirable activities to tax, and what desirable ones to incentivise.
72
22/01/2021 11:37:58 12 8
bbc
You could also say that excessive debt is absolutely a massive problem if you can't pay it back on time....so i'm not sure what your point is?
150
22/01/2021 12:31:04 3 1
bbc
Yep, another decade of disastrous, counter-productive, financially illiterate 'austerity measures' supposed to 'rebalance the economy' and clear government debt which will have none of the intended effects, while the 'economic advisors' yet again, just scratch their heads and make excuses while refusing to accept they were wrong and that there is another, for them, 'unpalatable' way forward.
157
22/01/2021 12:39:26 1 1
bbc
Call me cynical but. . .

So the man from the government, in charge of economy who previously worked for a company that makes a fortune by lending money, says the only way forward is for the government to borrow money.

Wow, its almost as if he has been parachuted into that position to influence policy for the benefit of his previous employers and their neoliberalist tendencies.
161
22/01/2021 12:43:35 1 0
bbc
Call me cynical but. . .

So the man from the government, in charge of economy who previously worked for a company that makes a fortune by lending money, says the only way forward is for the government to borrow money.

Wow, its almost as if he has been parachuted into that position to influence policy for the benefit of his previous employers and their neoliberalist tendencies.

Malfeasance?
299
22/01/2021 17:16:06 0 0
bbc
See my post just now.... Yours is a good one.
353
22/01/2021 21:43:13 0 0
bbc
rather take chances on Sunak than Dodds....
428
23/01/2021 18:57:53 0 0
bbc
On the subject of being half-educated in ecoonomics, the previous Labour government made the financial crisis worse by over-spending.
443
23/01/2021 20:23:57 0 0
bbc
UK, as a major world economy, has been trusted not to default on its debt.
However, our status is declining while our debt reaches new heights.
Eventually, a debt looks unsustainable
especially if no attempt to reduce it is made.
Osborne never imposed austerity. That is a myth.
But ask Argentina, Zimbabwe and Venezuela what hardship to expect when no one will buy your bonds.
22
22/01/2021 10:55:12 5 6
bbc
The debt under the Tories was getting out of control before the pandemic and it started with Osborne and Cameron. Tories now not so prudent with the nation's finances and the days of sound money as they used to say are gone. We are living on tick.
50
22/01/2021 11:26:22 2 1
bbc
So the Government should not have borrowed to save all the Jobs?
52
22/01/2021 11:19:20 2 0
bbc
Of course debt was increasing because of the deficit labour created.
75
22/01/2021 11:39:09 1 0
bbc
So they hadn't reduced the £160bn/yr deficit left by Labour to around £30bn pre-pandemic, despite all the gnashing and wailing over "austerity".

I must have dreamt that then.......
23
22/01/2021 10:58:29 5 8
bbc
Ah, Party of the Rich trashing the UK economy yet again!

Some things never change...
49
22/01/2021 11:25:16 4 1
bbc
Not all Tories are Rich, Just like not all Labour supporters are Idiots
18
22/01/2021 10:51:07 7 4
bbc
It didn't come from the UK, it was first identified here. Given it's spread through Kent and the SE, it is almost certain that it came form continental Europe in fact.
24
22/01/2021 10:58:34 5 2
bbc
No. Either new variant B.1.1.7 originated in Kent, or the index case arrived in Kent from elsewhere somehow without seeding it anywhere else. This is clear from the lineages and genomics.

https://virological.org/t/preliminary-genomic-characterisation-of-an-emergent-sars-cov-2-lineage-in-the-uk-defined-by-a-novel-set-of-spike-mutations/563
The government will recover some of the debt from the 100,000 fewer State pensions it will no longer be paying to those who have sadly died from Covid - plus the other costs usually associated with the poor elderly. Removed
18
22/01/2021 10:51:07 7 4
bbc
It didn't come from the UK, it was first identified here. Given it's spread through Kent and the SE, it is almost certain that it came form continental Europe in fact.
26
22/01/2021 10:59:58 2 1
bbc
Exact same could be said about China, that was the point of my comment. Cases of COVID were spotted in europe in November 2019... before when china reported theirs
121
22/01/2021 12:08:46 1 1
bbc
"Cases of COVID were spotted in europe in November 2019... before when china reported theirs"

Yes, China only got to reporting it long, long after it had got out from there and infected the world. They did not voluntarily report it, it was only after the WHO enquired.
146
22/01/2021 12:26:40 0 0
bbc
And cases of Covid 19 date back to September 25th in China or do you seriously believe everything China reports ?
20
22/01/2021 10:54:44 23 8
bbc
Mmmm, yes. Well the point then (pre-Covid) was that Corbyn/McDonnell were planning to borrow these sums, indefinitely as I recall, when there wasn't a global pandemic that killed millions. Not quite a like-for-like comparison, is it.
27
22/01/2021 11:01:12 4 8
bbc
Doesn't matter. BoJo and co (like the usual culprit, Daily Mail) were at pains emphasising, just as Mayhem was before them, that there is no Magic Money Tree.

Suddenly, Sunak, again just as Mayhem before him, has found one!....
28
22/01/2021 11:01:33 2 1
bbc
What do you think Homer? "Doh"
29
22/01/2021 10:50:34 2 2
bbc
Borrowed from whom? Surely, they have given up on it by now.
16
22/01/2021 10:48:05 17 15
bbc
"The country is bankrupt."

"Kaputt, bust, broke" were other terms used.

That's what Tory politicians and Tory supporters said if John McDonnell borrowed a fraction of what Sunak has borrowed this year.

So Tory supporters, is the UK bankrupt or were you telling lies?
30
22/01/2021 10:51:05 3 0
bbc
Its bankrupt but as money isn't real and has no real value, who cares?
8
22/01/2021 10:44:28 13 3
bbc
Would you rather know the facts or just make assumptions about what is going on in the world?
31
22/01/2021 10:53:37 4 3
bbc
Facts? Dream on mate! The only "facts" the BBC and other media outlets publish are the ones they want you to know about.
59
22/01/2021 11:32:00 3 0
bbc
Is That your opinion or fact. Here's a fact for you, you're a Tory Brexit Bigot who believes anything the BBC says is wrong, surprise, surprise.
19
22/01/2021 10:51:43 35 11
bbc
Its about to get worse if the latest hair brained scheme is implemented People who have virtually zero risk from covid will be able to make sure they get it and get a nice fat taxpayer five hundred pounds for their trouble I'm afraid covid house parties will become well worth it.Unbelievable
32
22/01/2021 11:03:11 14 5
bbc
...hare-brained.
2
22/01/2021 10:38:13 3 3
bbc
Is this borrowing sustainable?
33
22/01/2021 11:04:25 1 1
bbc
In case you hadn't noticed, the entire economic system at the moment is unsustainable, in an objective scientific sense. Look up 'planetary boundaries' and the 'great acceleration'.

Deficit and borrowing are just ideas.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/reel/video/p08jbbry/why-we-need-to-debunk-the-deficit-myth-

Need to begin discussion by prioritising human and ecological needs, per Doughnut Economics
34
22/01/2021 11:05:53 4 12
bbc
I expect that we may need an IMF bailout inside the next 10 years after which we will start negotiating to rejoin EU. It will be a very short negotiation as EU will give us a choice of standard deal or no deal. Thus we will have euro, schengen membership, no rebate, no exemptions.
42
22/01/2021 11:18:06 11 2
bbc
That assumes that the EU and the Euro still exist as well though
80
22/01/2021 11:42:38 2 0
bbc
The EU had run up a £3tn QE bill prior to Covid, and has committed to £700bn of Covid spending.
92
22/01/2021 11:51:35 2 0
bbc
I can't see many EU countries, or even the EU, surviving this.

Look at how long it took the EU to approve vaccines that Britain and America were already going 'full steam ahead' with. A vaccine developed in Germany, that is!!!
11
22/01/2021 10:45:53 7 7
bbc
Labour left a massive deficit, of course debt was going to rise
35
22/01/2021 11:08:20 1 3
bbc
National debt under labour 780 billion with great public services.
Debt under the Conservatives . 2 trillion with devastated public services.
Who has the money then ???
Think about that
66
22/01/2021 11:35:22 0 1
bbc
National debt in 2010 was £1.1tn, with an annual deficit of £160bn/year. It takes time to turn that around, but pre-pandemic, that's what the Tories were doing.
71
22/01/2021 11:37:25 0 0
bbc
You don’t understand what a large deficit does to debt so perhaps you should not be commenting
19
22/01/2021 10:51:43 35 11
bbc
Its about to get worse if the latest hair brained scheme is implemented People who have virtually zero risk from covid will be able to make sure they get it and get a nice fat taxpayer five hundred pounds for their trouble I'm afraid covid house parties will become well worth it.Unbelievable
36
22/01/2021 11:10:06 2 4
bbc
Even from the point of view of maximising consumer spending, encouraging people to test and if necessary isolate is a good idea as it means you could reduce distancing by the uninfected and non-contacts.

Countries that contained Covid (like NZ) saw it as local public health measure, delivering essentials or quarantining in hotels as well as supporting income.

BTW "It's" "hare-brained".
37
22/01/2021 11:10:17 20 16
bbc
Osborne doubled government debt in 6 years despite the Tories claiming Labour had spent all the money. May said there was no magic money tree but now it turns out there is. Only inflation can save the government now...mind how you go everyone
91
22/01/2021 11:51:06 18 9
bbc
No he didn't.

The debt in 2010 was £1.1bn, with an annual deficit running at £160bn.The UK debt in 2016 was £1.7tn, with an annual deficit of £67bn.

You can't erase a £160bn/yr deficit overnight.

Maths not your strong point.
327
22/01/2021 19:17:37 1 0
bbc
Here we go again

When labour left office the annual deficit was £165 billion pounds,

Cutting £165 billion from the uk government spending in one go wasn’t practical, so over a few years budgets were tightened and the national debt rose.

If Labour had been re-elected in 2010, they would have had to do exactly the same

Next
449
23/01/2021 20:54:33 0 0
bbc
Inflation erodes the value of debt
but that discourages investors
If investors stop buying government bonds, this whole teetering edifice that is the UK economy will collapse.
Nothing will save the government's finances now.
Some really hard times are coming.
19
22/01/2021 10:51:43 35 11
bbc
Its about to get worse if the latest hair brained scheme is implemented People who have virtually zero risk from covid will be able to make sure they get it and get a nice fat taxpayer five hundred pounds for their trouble I'm afraid covid house parties will become well worth it.Unbelievable
38
22/01/2021 11:14:58 6 8
bbc
It's not what grows on your head but the things that run around like idiots without a clue about the direction they are going in. Bit like Johnson, Sunak and the rest of the Tories.
39
22/01/2021 11:16:20 22 14
bbc
It would be good to see other countries borrowing figures during the pandemic...Spain, France and Italy would be a good start..... If people are moaning that we are not a rich country why the complaining about cutting the foreign aid budget (no other country give 7%) - we need it.
58
22/01/2021 11:31:43 15 11
bbc
It is 0.7% not 7% which going to be cut to 0.5%, also all EU countries give 0.7% not sure about any others.
63
22/01/2021 11:34:01 2 0
bbc
It is 0.7% but you point is still valid
77
22/01/2021 11:41:03 2 1
bbc
I expect they will moan if we include donated vaccine in that 0.7% as well
143
22/01/2021 12:23:09 1 6
bbc
Other EU countries will benefit from bailout most of which will be subsidised by industrial powerhouse Germany. What will UK get-nothing
254
22/01/2021 14:19:19 3 2
bbc
Yes GDP has declined and the UK and EU will be feeling it, but there are people starving out there without access to clean water. We are not poor as a nation.

If you discount national borders, and look at the human population as a whole, the % GDP aid contribution is abysmal and a further decline when the poorest need it most is disgusting. Both the UK and EU need to step up.
In the meantime the fishermen are bitterly complaining that Brexit is destroying their industry.

You just couldn't make that up!

Where is Farage to ride to the rescue?....
Removed
76
22/01/2021 11:39:43 3 3
bbc
EU bureaucracy is destroying their industry because it wants to be petty and punish ordinary Brits. If the self-same fish were caught by EU boats it would be acceptable.
41
22/01/2021 11:17:52 19 8
bbc
The debt before C19, £1,000,000,000,000+ plus some BOE vodoo wasn't sustainable.
Despite Austerity for some but Tax Breaks for others, cutting services to the bone Police Nurses Councils. Tax was always having to go up.

To regain services to pre 2010 levels then big tax rises are required for all, in addition to CT rises.
The problem is the politicians don't want to do it, or face reality
124
22/01/2021 12:09:44 20 3
bbc
To be frank there needs to be pan-national consensus building around taxing multi-national companies and mobile billionaires.
193
22/01/2021 13:13:44 1 3
bbc
Forget austerity this time round, the economy, and not just ours, is being destroyed by covid and the oncoming brexit .
There is nothing left to cut, and with businesses, and therefore employment, devastated, there is no margin for tax rises, except for the rich. Even that will not be enough.
The only way out is to borrow to invest, which, arguably, should have been the case 10 years ago.
202
22/01/2021 13:24:33 2 2
bbc
Thats because austerity is a neoliberal political philosophy that has no groundings in helping an economy get going or reducing national debt, it does the contrary it sucks public money out into private hands and stagnates the economy as cash flow is restricted when its hoarded in offshore tax havens. Both the labour and conservative party ascribe to these policies as do all western banks.
34
22/01/2021 11:05:53 4 12
bbc
I expect that we may need an IMF bailout inside the next 10 years after which we will start negotiating to rejoin EU. It will be a very short negotiation as EU will give us a choice of standard deal or no deal. Thus we will have euro, schengen membership, no rebate, no exemptions.
42
22/01/2021 11:18:06 11 2
bbc
That assumes that the EU and the Euro still exist as well though
48
22/01/2021 11:24:07 5 2
bbc
Well said
342
22/01/2021 20:09:58 0 0
bbc
They are not going anywhere.
The pound Sterling is a at best a 2nd world currency, the US dollar, Euro, Chinese Yuan and Japanese Yen are GLOBAL TRADING CURRENCIES.
The pound is an irrelevance to most traders.
19
22/01/2021 10:51:43 35 11
bbc
Its about to get worse if the latest hair brained scheme is implemented People who have virtually zero risk from covid will be able to make sure they get it and get a nice fat taxpayer five hundred pounds for their trouble I'm afraid covid house parties will become well worth it.Unbelievable
43
22/01/2021 11:20:53 1 2
bbc
Pay £800 fine to get £500 is not exactly clever though
44
SJ
22/01/2021 11:21:36 18 2
bbc
What about private sector debt ? We're only getting half the picture here.
95
22/01/2021 11:52:26 21 4
bbc
Private sector debt far exceeds public sector debt. Prior to Thatcher's financial deregulation in the 1980s, private sector debt never ever exceeded 75% of GDP. It is now at 224% of GDP! This is now at dangerous levels.
20
22/01/2021 10:54:44 23 8
bbc
Mmmm, yes. Well the point then (pre-Covid) was that Corbyn/McDonnell were planning to borrow these sums, indefinitely as I recall, when there wasn't a global pandemic that killed millions. Not quite a like-for-like comparison, is it.
45
22/01/2021 11:22:19 5 1
bbc
Think how much more JC would have been borrowing - everyone being paid by the state to do nothing?
46
22/01/2021 11:23:03 24 14
bbc
Big tax increases are inevitable, the problem for the politicians is that the poor haven't got anything left to give, but they will take it anyway.

That means pain for most but not the ones that benefit everytime.

The general population hasn't benefitted from North Sea oil, sale of industries, assets or QE, but it will be us that pays, while those that benefitted most laugh their tits off.
61
22/01/2021 11:32:35 49 10
bbc
The poor pay very little in tax anyway. The burden will be placed on the middle classes as it always does
70
22/01/2021 11:37:04 12 0
bbc
The general population did benefit from North Sea oil in taxes lower than they otherwise would have been. It is just that we spent it all whereas countries like Norway, Saudi Arabia, Brunei etc set up National Wealth funds to future-proof their windfalls
114
22/01/2021 12:02:50 5 1
bbc
Surely the tax system knows who has been getting the free furlough money, the free self-employed money, the free UC £1,000 covid-bonus - so the tax system knows who to approach for more tax over the next five years.
153
22/01/2021 12:35:33 0 1
bbc
Absolutely true
417
23/01/2021 14:55:51 0 0
bbc
I think everyone knows someone who does not pay their correct tax, sort this out make sure everyone pays their tax. Make sure tax is fair and collected .
47
bbc
Removed
42
22/01/2021 11:18:06 11 2
bbc
That assumes that the EU and the Euro still exist as well though
48
22/01/2021 11:24:07 5 2
bbc
Well said
267
22/01/2021 14:36:45 0 0
bbc
Not something I greatly fear

The US was kin a similar situation couple of hundred years avo.
They survived.
Isolated countries do.
not.
23
22/01/2021 10:58:29 5 8
bbc
Ah, Party of the Rich trashing the UK economy yet again!

Some things never change...
49
22/01/2021 11:25:16 4 1
bbc
Not all Tories are Rich, Just like not all Labour supporters are Idiots
82
22/01/2021 11:43:31 0 1
bbc
Are you sure?
343
22/01/2021 20:11:15 0 0
bbc
Anyone working to make others rich at their expense and voting Tory hasn’t really worked things out
22
22/01/2021 10:55:12 5 6
bbc
The debt under the Tories was getting out of control before the pandemic and it started with Osborne and Cameron. Tories now not so prudent with the nation's finances and the days of sound money as they used to say are gone. We are living on tick.
50
22/01/2021 11:26:22 2 1
bbc
So the Government should not have borrowed to save all the Jobs?
273
22/01/2021 14:44:09 0 0
bbc
As they have said, they could not save all the jobs.
But, yes generally, furlough was a good attempt.
Some European countries, not all, went further, though.
7
22/01/2021 10:43:54 4 10
bbc
Debt is well over 2 trillion now, which is far worse than what labour left the tories with after the banking sector crash.

Disastrous
51
22/01/2021 11:26:37 0 0
bbc
How much has the economy grown in the same period?

Although we cannot afford the extra population in respect of housing etc current borrowing has always been on the back of an increasing economy being able to pay for it which is why a falling population has caused problems in other advanced nations
22
22/01/2021 10:55:12 5 6
bbc
The debt under the Tories was getting out of control before the pandemic and it started with Osborne and Cameron. Tories now not so prudent with the nation's finances and the days of sound money as they used to say are gone. We are living on tick.
52
22/01/2021 11:19:20 2 0
bbc
Of course debt was increasing because of the deficit labour created.
53
22/01/2021 11:28:03 4 1
bbc
Those saying that it doesn't matter because:-
Interest rates are so low we can afford it.
Its only BOE printing money so not real.

Are just burying their heads in the sand, if that is the case why haven't we made a dent in the debt in over 12 years and have 0% interest rates despite 2 years above BOE inflation target at least.

Politicians and BOE have a lot to answer for, but still carry on.
65
22/01/2021 11:34:21 2 0
bbc
Everyone is being encouraged to borrow and spend and look where it gets some big companies drowning in debt?
5
22/01/2021 10:40:50 3 5
bbc
0% borrowing is a no brainer as this Government will be long gone when it has to be paid back.
54
22/01/2021 11:28:27 1 0
bbc
And every 1% increase adds £20bn to the annual cost at current debt levels
55
22/01/2021 11:28:46 5 3
bbc
Good.

As the Government borrows at preferential rates, it pays far lower interest than business and individuals. It's therefore far better that the Government borrows than business and individuals.

So what about the banks? It's about time they became more efficient.

In particular, general penalties, e.g. punitive interest on overdraft and credit card borrowing should be made illegal.
62
22/01/2021 11:32:37 6 2
bbc
Punitive interest rates pay for the defaulters. Unauthorised overdrafts are effectively theft of other peoples money
56
nfn
22/01/2021 11:30:27 5 3
bbc
and this is a surprise?????
113
22/01/2021 12:02:11 4 0
bbc
no..but it is avoidable...try to keep up
10
22/01/2021 10:45:11 15 20
bbc
So should we be liable for this current lockdown in europe given the most recent variant came from the UK?
57
22/01/2021 11:30:29 2 4
bbc
It was first spotted in the UK because we were tracking it. Not necessarily here first though. Being in Kent could have come across the Channel?
69
22/01/2021 11:36:54 4 1
bbc
Read cedders point above and link... you are wrong
39
22/01/2021 11:16:20 22 14
bbc
It would be good to see other countries borrowing figures during the pandemic...Spain, France and Italy would be a good start..... If people are moaning that we are not a rich country why the complaining about cutting the foreign aid budget (no other country give 7%) - we need it.
58
22/01/2021 11:31:43 15 11
bbc
It is 0.7% not 7% which going to be cut to 0.5%, also all EU countries give 0.7% not sure about any others.
123
22/01/2021 12:09:32 8 1
bbc
"All EU countries give 0.7% (GNI)" - where did you pull that one from?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_development_aid_country_donors

Most EU countries do NOT hit the 0.70% the UK has been - Germany 0.6%, France 0.44%, Austria 0.27%, Belgium 0.42%, Spain 0.21%.
130
22/01/2021 12:12:30 7 1
bbc
"also all EU countries give 0.7%..." Absolute rubbish. Another throwaway pro-EU line with no truth whatsoever. In 2019 (according to OECD figures), apart from the UK, only Denmark, Sweden and Luxembourg exceed 0.7%. France gave a 0.4%, Germany 0.6% and Italy a pitiful 0.24%.
195
22/01/2021 13:17:44 4 5
bbc
By international agreement, all developed countries signed to gove 0
7%.
as our GDP is falling, the amount being given would have fallen anyway, so cutting by another 0.2% is callous.
Have we lost our humanity, to those far worse off than us?
Sickening.
31
22/01/2021 10:53:37 4 3
bbc
Facts? Dream on mate! The only "facts" the BBC and other media outlets publish are the ones they want you to know about.
59
22/01/2021 11:32:00 3 0
bbc
Is That your opinion or fact. Here's a fact for you, you're a Tory Brexit Bigot who believes anything the BBC says is wrong, surprise, surprise.
8
22/01/2021 10:44:28 13 3
bbc
Would you rather know the facts or just make assumptions about what is going on in the world?
60
22/01/2021 11:32:11 0 1
bbc
It's not the raw data I have issue with, it is the way it is reported.

We know why borrowing is at record highs.
74
22/01/2021 11:38:58 0 0
bbc
So what specifically is your issue?
46
22/01/2021 11:23:03 24 14
bbc
Big tax increases are inevitable, the problem for the politicians is that the poor haven't got anything left to give, but they will take it anyway.

That means pain for most but not the ones that benefit everytime.

The general population hasn't benefitted from North Sea oil, sale of industries, assets or QE, but it will be us that pays, while those that benefitted most laugh their tits off.
61
22/01/2021 11:32:35 49 10
bbc
The poor pay very little in tax anyway. The burden will be placed on the middle classes as it always does
84
22/01/2021 11:44:43 6 4
bbc
The middle classes have benefitted enormously through QE in share and house prices and it has only cost £60,000 per household.

Very little changed in tax because what went from direct tax was put straight on indirect taxes.

I think 10 years of austerity hit the poor a great deal more than middle class. Bedroom Tax against HTB £600,000 houses.
88
22/01/2021 11:49:36 6 3
bbc
The top 1% of earners in the UK pay about 27% of all income tax. With the top rate at only 45% that gives an idea of how colossal their earnings are. In part this has led to a very inefficient wealth distribution.
135
22/01/2021 12:17:07 8 3
bbc
The poor don't pay enough tax to cover the services they use - they are net takers from the UK coffers.
136
22/01/2021 12:17:12 4 0
bbc
Lowest-paid 20% shell out 35% of their income as tax, mostly in VAT & other spending-taxes.
For highest-paid 20% it's 40%, mostly in income tax.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/datasets/theeffectsoftaxesandbenefitsonhouseholdincomefinancialyearending2014
320
22/01/2021 19:04:25 0 0
bbc
In fact most poor people take out far more than they contribute ....fact
334
22/01/2021 19:54:58 0 0
bbc
Economics along with basic humanity not a strong point.
415
23/01/2021 14:37:37 0 0
bbc
the middle class are the poor since 2008 ... Dual parent Incomes of £50k with a family gets you into the poor class these days ........ so many middle class struggle already and joing the underclass ... In a Democracy that means the other party wil get in next .....
55
22/01/2021 11:28:46 5 3
bbc
Good.

As the Government borrows at preferential rates, it pays far lower interest than business and individuals. It's therefore far better that the Government borrows than business and individuals.

So what about the banks? It's about time they became more efficient.

In particular, general penalties, e.g. punitive interest on overdraft and credit card borrowing should be made illegal.
62
22/01/2021 11:32:37 6 2
bbc
Punitive interest rates pay for the defaulters. Unauthorised overdrafts are effectively theft of other peoples money
110
22/01/2021 12:00:26 1 1
bbc
Just like not paying your rent is effectively theft of other peoples money - yet the gov seem to be encouraging that.
116
22/01/2021 12:03:16 2 0
bbc
can i sell you a second hand boat, one owner, few holes?
214
22/01/2021 13:37:54 1 0
bbc
Then why were rates so much lower, befors the FSA chsnged the rules?
The current rates are just thd bznks' revenge on clients.
And collaboration is illegal, so why is 39.9% the common rate?
39
22/01/2021 11:16:20 22 14
bbc
It would be good to see other countries borrowing figures during the pandemic...Spain, France and Italy would be a good start..... If people are moaning that we are not a rich country why the complaining about cutting the foreign aid budget (no other country give 7%) - we need it.
63
22/01/2021 11:34:01 2 0
bbc
It is 0.7% but you point is still valid
7
22/01/2021 10:43:54 4 10
bbc
Debt is well over 2 trillion now, which is far worse than what labour left the tories with after the banking sector crash.

Disastrous
64
22/01/2021 11:34:12 0 1
bbc
Well done for showing you have absolutely no idea about the economy, or how the government had reduce a £160bn/year deficit inherited from Labour.

And then you also complain about austerity, which was government attempts to reduce the debt.

Hilarious.
53
22/01/2021 11:28:03 4 1
bbc
Those saying that it doesn't matter because:-
Interest rates are so low we can afford it.
Its only BOE printing money so not real.

Are just burying their heads in the sand, if that is the case why haven't we made a dent in the debt in over 12 years and have 0% interest rates despite 2 years above BOE inflation target at least.

Politicians and BOE have a lot to answer for, but still carry on.
65
22/01/2021 11:34:21 2 0
bbc
Everyone is being encouraged to borrow and spend and look where it gets some big companies drowning in debt?
35
22/01/2021 11:08:20 1 3
bbc
National debt under labour 780 billion with great public services.
Debt under the Conservatives . 2 trillion with devastated public services.
Who has the money then ???
Think about that
66
22/01/2021 11:35:22 0 1
bbc
National debt in 2010 was £1.1tn, with an annual deficit of £160bn/year. It takes time to turn that around, but pre-pandemic, that's what the Tories were doing.
15
22/01/2021 10:47:58 3 3
bbc
And how's that deficit after 10 years of tory austerity exactly? yeah it's still there
67
22/01/2021 11:36:25 0 0
bbc
The deficit came down every year, until the pandemic hit, at which point the government had no choice but to increase borrowing. Are you telling me Labour would not have increased borrowing.
16
22/01/2021 10:48:05 17 15
bbc
"The country is bankrupt."

"Kaputt, bust, broke" were other terms used.

That's what Tory politicians and Tory supporters said if John McDonnell borrowed a fraction of what Sunak has borrowed this year.

So Tory supporters, is the UK bankrupt or were you telling lies?
68
22/01/2021 11:36:28 2 2
bbc
And Labour, by demanding more and more pandemic spending, prove that under them, the numbers would be much higher.
57
22/01/2021 11:30:29 2 4
bbc
It was first spotted in the UK because we were tracking it. Not necessarily here first though. Being in Kent could have come across the Channel?
69
22/01/2021 11:36:54 4 1
bbc
Read cedders point above and link... you are wrong
46
22/01/2021 11:23:03 24 14
bbc
Big tax increases are inevitable, the problem for the politicians is that the poor haven't got anything left to give, but they will take it anyway.

That means pain for most but not the ones that benefit everytime.

The general population hasn't benefitted from North Sea oil, sale of industries, assets or QE, but it will be us that pays, while those that benefitted most laugh their tits off.
70
22/01/2021 11:37:04 12 0
bbc
The general population did benefit from North Sea oil in taxes lower than they otherwise would have been. It is just that we spent it all whereas countries like Norway, Saudi Arabia, Brunei etc set up National Wealth funds to future-proof their windfalls
418
23/01/2021 14:59:05 0 0
bbc
Oh to be in Norways position going into any crisis-you know there is a war chest. We just have a printer at the BOE.But it has proved money is not real going forward and we could all be given a basic living income (lifetime pension from 21 to work or not) with those that want to aspire for more than a basic life working on top of that.A much better system-Each person starts with 12.5K per annum.
35
22/01/2021 11:08:20 1 3
bbc
National debt under labour 780 billion with great public services.
Debt under the Conservatives . 2 trillion with devastated public services.
Who has the money then ???
Think about that
71
22/01/2021 11:37:25 0 0
bbc
You don’t understand what a large deficit does to debt so perhaps you should not be commenting
21
22/01/2021 10:54:54 18 11
bbc
Extended borrowing is not necessarily a problem, as even the City economists acknowledge.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/reel/video/p08jbbry/why-we-need-to-debunk-the-deficit-myth-

I worry that Sunak shares the half-educated view of economics that Osborne did when shooting the country in the foot. Should be thinking instead of _what_ undesirable activities to tax, and what desirable ones to incentivise.
72
22/01/2021 11:37:58 12 8
bbc
You could also say that excessive debt is absolutely a massive problem if you can't pay it back on time....so i'm not sure what your point is?
122
22/01/2021 12:09:13 5 1
bbc
Think the point is that - as the govt effectively owes the debt to itself - it doesn't have to pay it back at any special time.
197
22/01/2021 13:19:55 2 0
bbc
The debt can be extended, the interest needs to be paid on time.
Interest rates are at record lows, although they can be expected to rise.
We should pass the bill to the Chinese laboratory if it did originate there
This should never been allowed to happen
Removed
73
22/01/2021 11:38:47 1 0
bbc
If it was proved beyond doubt that the virus did come from a Chinese laboratory due to bad bio security and all the C19 effected countries stuck together for reparations we might be lucky otherwise we’re just whistling in the wind ??
60
22/01/2021 11:32:11 0 1
bbc
It's not the raw data I have issue with, it is the way it is reported.

We know why borrowing is at record highs.
74
22/01/2021 11:38:58 0 0
bbc
So what specifically is your issue?
22
22/01/2021 10:55:12 5 6
bbc
The debt under the Tories was getting out of control before the pandemic and it started with Osborne and Cameron. Tories now not so prudent with the nation's finances and the days of sound money as they used to say are gone. We are living on tick.
75
22/01/2021 11:39:09 1 0
bbc
So they hadn't reduced the £160bn/yr deficit left by Labour to around £30bn pre-pandemic, despite all the gnashing and wailing over "austerity".

I must have dreamt that then.......
In the meantime the fishermen are bitterly complaining that Brexit is destroying their industry.

You just couldn't make that up!

Where is Farage to ride to the rescue?....
Removed
76
22/01/2021 11:39:43 3 3
bbc
EU bureaucracy is destroying their industry because it wants to be petty and punish ordinary Brits. If the self-same fish were caught by EU boats it would be acceptable.
39
22/01/2021 11:16:20 22 14
bbc
It would be good to see other countries borrowing figures during the pandemic...Spain, France and Italy would be a good start..... If people are moaning that we are not a rich country why the complaining about cutting the foreign aid budget (no other country give 7%) - we need it.
77
22/01/2021 11:41:03 2 1
bbc
I expect they will moan if we include donated vaccine in that 0.7% as well
127
22/01/2021 12:10:43 7 3
bbc
The UK is indeed the single largest donor to the WHO and the covax plan to donate vaccines to developing countries.

Where are the other EU luvlies in stepping up?
78
22/01/2021 11:41:03 20 2
bbc
The true cost of Covid is either not known or hidden. I say hidden because my London friend tells me of increased homeless people and regular suicides. They even rescued one potential suicide only to have nowhere to send them, then the person reached his goal a few hours later.
This will continue well after "LOCKDOWN" has gone and then we will have Bankrupt people in abundance as well as business.
311
22/01/2021 18:21:30 6 4
bbc
The lockdown brigade are too brainwashed to give up now. Like those quacks who doubled down on leeching when leeching wasn't working in the first place.
Voodoo science is destroying our society.
6
22/01/2021 10:42:12 61 8
bbc
Not surprising the amount the government is handing out to everyone
79
22/01/2021 11:41:39 49 4
bbc
Ive had nothing.
145
22/01/2021 12:26:36 6 0
bbc
Me neither
183
22/01/2021 13:06:27 7 2
bbc
Do you deserve or need any?
231
22/01/2021 13:50:54 8 2
bbc
Me neither, I don’t receive a penny from the state not even family allowance. I bet they will up my taxes to pay it back though while half the nation has been sat on their rears getting paid
318
22/01/2021 18:31:43 1 0
bbc
Do you qualify for any?
330
22/01/2021 19:35:59 1 0
bbc
Diddley squat here too???? ....breathe in ....now breathe out ????
34
22/01/2021 11:05:53 4 12
bbc
I expect that we may need an IMF bailout inside the next 10 years after which we will start negotiating to rejoin EU. It will be a very short negotiation as EU will give us a choice of standard deal or no deal. Thus we will have euro, schengen membership, no rebate, no exemptions.
80
22/01/2021 11:42:38 2 0
bbc
The EU had run up a £3tn QE bill prior to Covid, and has committed to £700bn of Covid spending.
268
22/01/2021 14:38:28 0 0
bbc
We had £2tn debt in a country with 1/6th the population
81
22/01/2021 11:42:43 19 13
bbc
Safety vs. the economy is a false trade-off. A more timely lockdown response would have saved more lives AND had a less negative impact on the economy.

As it is, Johnson has failed on both counts.
99
22/01/2021 11:56:21 5 5
bbc
True and sadly it's too late for many, but a better co-ordinated response than we have at the moment could still save thousands of lives. It's not just lockdown, but support for those isolating has been a key failing according to Anthony Costello.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-dithering-delay-cost-21000-lives-spring-analysis/
108
22/01/2021 11:59:21 2 1
bbc
So say most back seat drivers in most countries about their leaders.
235
22/01/2021 13:55:01 2 1
bbc
on a few more than 2.
49
22/01/2021 11:25:16 4 1
bbc
Not all Tories are Rich, Just like not all Labour supporters are Idiots
82
22/01/2021 11:43:31 0 1
bbc
Are you sure?
10
22/01/2021 10:45:11 15 20
bbc
So should we be liable for this current lockdown in europe given the most recent variant came from the UK?
83
22/01/2021 11:44:17 1 0
bbc
Go back to the source rather than its variants.
147
22/01/2021 12:28:05 0 0
bbc
There wouldn't have been a UK variant if we had just managed the outbreak better. Variants can only happen if they have a human petri dish to evolve in and thats exactly what happened here with our spikes in cases
61
22/01/2021 11:32:35 49 10
bbc
The poor pay very little in tax anyway. The burden will be placed on the middle classes as it always does
84
22/01/2021 11:44:43 6 4
bbc
The middle classes have benefitted enormously through QE in share and house prices and it has only cost £60,000 per household.

Very little changed in tax because what went from direct tax was put straight on indirect taxes.

I think 10 years of austerity hit the poor a great deal more than middle class. Bedroom Tax against HTB £600,000 houses.
203
22/01/2021 13:29:27 3 1
bbc
£60,000 per household is 6 years income for me.
I want it back!!!!!!
85
22/01/2021 11:45:50 10 7
bbc
Well as living in a morally bankrupt country we will shortly be in a financially bankrupt economy.

Never mind we have record house prices.
86
22/01/2021 11:46:17 4 7
bbc
THANK GOODNESS we have a government that had got more on top of debt BEFORE this horrible import from China hit us.

Just imagine if we STARTED this all with Gordon Brown levels of debt!!!
90
22/01/2021 11:50:37 6 1
bbc
did Brown just borrow for the sake of it? Seem to recall a bit of a worldwide financial crash, and you know, not to get in the way of your bias, but worth mentioning
93
22/01/2021 11:52:17 3 2
bbc
You are clearly Alt-Right and possibly a Brexit supporter as well.
111
22/01/2021 12:00:52 3 0
bbc
Your memory doesn't stretch back far enough. Go do some homework, homie.

Take your out dated prejudice with you. BJ and Gove are in charge not Brown.
120
22/01/2021 12:08:02 0 0
bbc
and when will you LEARN that using CAPITALS just advertises were you get your OPINIONS
225
22/01/2021 13:44:00 2 0
bbc
Finance along with economics obviously not one of your strengths.
263
22/01/2021 14:26:53 1 0
bbc
Or even Osborne's level of debt, twice that of Brown's?
87
22/01/2021 11:47:56 35 6
bbc
Batten down the hatches ..Storm Taxman is coming your way soon
105
22/01/2021 11:58:30 25 6
bbc
It should be clear who got given the furlough and self-employed and UC covid bonus money - so it should be clear whose income tax rates need amending in the future - a 5% covid-tax for the next five years for those who have been given so much.
151
22/01/2021 12:32:03 3 1
bbc
What and make themselves unpopular. Stealth on the way
286
22/01/2021 15:59:48 0 0
bbc
Certainly there will be a taxation increase price to pay, I think a whole plethora of taxes will rise with VAT likely to jump / be extended to current zero rated items. Put simply, we all (at whatever life stage) can generally not avoid the VAT mans reach.
61
22/01/2021 11:32:35 49 10
bbc
The poor pay very little in tax anyway. The burden will be placed on the middle classes as it always does
88
22/01/2021 11:49:36 6 3
bbc
The top 1% of earners in the UK pay about 27% of all income tax. With the top rate at only 45% that gives an idea of how colossal their earnings are. In part this has led to a very inefficient wealth distribution.
139
22/01/2021 12:19:18 2 1
bbc
Yes, noticed you put "Income Tax" rather than tax as much lower levels pay a much higher percentage in indirect taxes.

Interestingly they also equate for 17% of the countrys income.
Also benefitted by a wide margin from allowances.
Lets not mention the estimated £128,000 calculated to be better off via QE.
Peskey facts Eh!
89
22/01/2021 11:41:45 7 5
bbc
"Borrowing so far this financial year is at its highest level since monthly records began in 1993". Once again we can thank Faisal for incisive reporting and analysis, hopefully we'll have sound bite from Annelise later.
86
22/01/2021 11:46:17 4 7
bbc
THANK GOODNESS we have a government that had got more on top of debt BEFORE this horrible import from China hit us.

Just imagine if we STARTED this all with Gordon Brown levels of debt!!!
90
22/01/2021 11:50:37 6 1
bbc
did Brown just borrow for the sake of it? Seem to recall a bit of a worldwide financial crash, and you know, not to get in the way of your bias, but worth mentioning
96
22/01/2021 11:54:42 0 3
bbc
Brown borrowed to fund a lot of stupid things. He also sold off gold when it was rock-bottom prices. Thank goodness he has not had his hands on things for a long time before this trouble.
37
22/01/2021 11:10:17 20 16
bbc
Osborne doubled government debt in 6 years despite the Tories claiming Labour had spent all the money. May said there was no magic money tree but now it turns out there is. Only inflation can save the government now...mind how you go everyone
91
22/01/2021 11:51:06 18 9
bbc
No he didn't.

The debt in 2010 was £1.1bn, with an annual deficit running at £160bn.The UK debt in 2016 was £1.7tn, with an annual deficit of £67bn.

You can't erase a £160bn/yr deficit overnight.

Maths not your strong point.
34
22/01/2021 11:05:53 4 12
bbc
I expect that we may need an IMF bailout inside the next 10 years after which we will start negotiating to rejoin EU. It will be a very short negotiation as EU will give us a choice of standard deal or no deal. Thus we will have euro, schengen membership, no rebate, no exemptions.
92
22/01/2021 11:51:35 2 0
bbc
I can't see many EU countries, or even the EU, surviving this.

Look at how long it took the EU to approve vaccines that Britain and America were already going 'full steam ahead' with. A vaccine developed in Germany, that is!!!
270
22/01/2021 14:39:37 0 0
bbc
But they cooperate, we are on our own.
86
22/01/2021 11:46:17 4 7
bbc
THANK GOODNESS we have a government that had got more on top of debt BEFORE this horrible import from China hit us.

Just imagine if we STARTED this all with Gordon Brown levels of debt!!!
93
22/01/2021 11:52:17 3 2
bbc
You are clearly Alt-Right and possibly a Brexit supporter as well.
106
22/01/2021 11:58:50 1 2
bbc
You are clearly a Corbyn supporter!!
94
22/01/2021 11:52:22 6 8
bbc
If Corbyn had of got in with his magic money tree manifesto the debt would be considerably higher
104
22/01/2021 11:58:17 4 4
bbc
Chip, shoulder.

Proof, none.

Give it a rest pal. This forum is like your home, no one is listening to you.
142
22/01/2021 12:21:19 3 0
bbc
Your ignorance is simply astounding! The National Debt has more than DOUBLED since 2010, all in order to bail out bankrupt banks. Of course you don't worry about this because you are kept in ignorance and TOLD not to by the corporate media. Corbyn wanted to spend 40 billion and you are horrified, but give 400 billion to banks and like the good little fool you are you don't even raise a murmur!
156
22/01/2021 12:39:10 1 1
bbc
And there's no magic money tree now. Where's Johnson going to get his levelling up money from. Got to do that or his red wall MP's will be on the warpath. Watch this space.
168
22/01/2021 12:46:43 2 1
bbc
So even though the Tories have delivered the highest debt and the biggest recession in UK history, all you can say is "but Labour..."?
216
22/01/2021 13:38:40 2 0
bbc
Terrible attempt at deflection and whatiffery.
Would get a see me at school.
256
22/01/2021 14:20:37 1 0
bbc
Can we stick to reality?
Corbyn didn't win, Labour has a minority, , the Nasty Party have a record 80 seat majority, so the buck stops with our esteemrd PM and his selected bunch of incompetents.
Talking of which, Grayling is quiet.
44
SJ
22/01/2021 11:21:36 18 2
bbc
What about private sector debt ? We're only getting half the picture here.
95
22/01/2021 11:52:26 21 4
bbc
Private sector debt far exceeds public sector debt. Prior to Thatcher's financial deregulation in the 1980s, private sector debt never ever exceeded 75% of GDP. It is now at 224% of GDP! This is now at dangerous levels.
217
22/01/2021 13:38:45 5 4
bbc
Due, largely, though not entiry, to misplaced austerity.
386
23/01/2021 11:29:07 0 0
bbc
you are aptly named Lone Voice
good luck with that tub
the easing of lending still blows my mind
I'm old enough to remember crawling in to a bank manager's office to beg for a business loan
proof of years worth of earnings shackled to my back
with two senior family members prepared to act as guarantors dragged along for good measure

aaaaah, the good old days...
387
23/01/2021 11:29:37 0 0
bbc
I also fondly remember 'productivity'
whatever happened to that?
388
23/01/2021 11:32:25 0 0
bbc
the first Credit Card I saw was an American Express Diner's Club Card
a colleague produced one at the juicer one night
I naively asked if he banked with them

he explained that it was their money for his use

I quickly put it down on the table
I was raised to fear God and debt in roughly equal degrees of terror
I sat and watched it, suspiciously, all night long
90
22/01/2021 11:50:37 6 1
bbc
did Brown just borrow for the sake of it? Seem to recall a bit of a worldwide financial crash, and you know, not to get in the way of your bias, but worth mentioning
96
22/01/2021 11:54:42 0 3
bbc
Brown borrowed to fund a lot of stupid things. He also sold off gold when it was rock-bottom prices. Thank goodness he has not had his hands on things for a long time before this trouble.
103
22/01/2021 11:57:59 5 0
bbc
cough*financial crash*cough

selective memory syndrome
138
22/01/2021 12:17:51 0 1
bbc
And raided pension funds..........
97
22/01/2021 11:42:51 3 2
bbc
still people screaming for more
101
22/01/2021 11:56:45 5 1
bbc
So many with their noses in the trough, next they'll want the government to feed their kids even though they already get child support and an extra £1,000pa covid bonus. Oh!
117
22/01/2021 12:05:08 4 0
bbc
And Mrs May wants us to borrow even more to give away abroad
98
22/01/2021 11:55:55 7 2
bbc
The result of being penny wise and pound foolish since the start of the pandemic and in the years before.
158
22/01/2021 12:41:20 3 7
bbc
Rubbish.
335
22/01/2021 19:56:06 0 0
bbc
Economic ignorance as displayed by “experts “.
81
22/01/2021 11:42:43 19 13
bbc
Safety vs. the economy is a false trade-off. A more timely lockdown response would have saved more lives AND had a less negative impact on the economy.

As it is, Johnson has failed on both counts.
99
22/01/2021 11:56:21 5 5
bbc
True and sadly it's too late for many, but a better co-ordinated response than we have at the moment could still save thousands of lives. It's not just lockdown, but support for those isolating has been a key failing according to Anthony Costello.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-dithering-delay-cost-21000-lives-spring-analysis/
100
22/01/2021 11:56:29 35 5
bbc
A TV Economics pundit summed it up very well recently. In the good times we borrow. Then when the economy turns bad we borrow massively. Govts will not do what's needed to balance the budget because voters don't like it.
306
22/01/2021 17:40:50 7 4
bbc
That is why UK government steal from the ordinary in less clear terms by inflation. Which is deliberately targeted for one reason it 'coin clips' every penny ordinary people posses every year, while the rich gain massively as their wealth is in assets. Add in masses crowd appeasement pay rises that are carefully undone by devaluation since the gold standard was escaped from to enable it.
424
23/01/2021 17:03:12 0 0
bbc
When they try, it gets labelled forced austerity.