Covid: 'No furlough because they shut the company'
20/01/2021 | news | business | 559
Out-of-date tax systems mean people are falling through the cracks for help, MPs say.
1
20/01/2021 10:51:28 54 12
bbc
Rishi Sunak said no one would be left behind which is untrue because 3 million in the country were excluded from any support.
Rishi Sunak has been told many times about the excluded but he chooses to ignore them and says how he has helped everyone else.
199
20/01/2021 14:02:07 13 5
bbc
..he ignores us at his peril, the very people he will turn to to help bail out the governments selective largesse.
460
20/01/2021 18:58:57 2 2
bbc
They were not excluded. Furlough still applies. You will get 80& of your declared salary. Same as everyone else. And yes - I run a PSC. What you are saying is that you think you should be treated better than anyone else. That grates.
555
Bob
21/01/2021 14:28:59 0 1
bbc
Most have not been left behind. Many chose to pay themselves almost no pay to avoid tax and NI
2
20/01/2021 10:52:54 12 20
bbc
Freelancers can live on some of the National Insurance they didn't pay, and some of the taxes they avoided. Can't be having it both ways.
6
20/01/2021 11:30:17 9 3
bbc
Accept that there is some tax incentive to set up on your own. Part of that is with respect to the risk you are taking and the potential reward to the government of being a viable business with employees in the future. But regardless of that saving a grand or so a year in tax still doesn't make up for almost a year of lost income for the average self employed person or company director.
196
CJR
20/01/2021 14:09:15 0 0
bbc
Please back that up with your facts, not some half baked idea that everyone who works for themselves is on the fiddle.
According to your logic no one would have been able to apply for the self employed grant, as we had not paid any taxes or made a profit which the grant is paid on not 80% of our wages as on furlough.
3
20/01/2021 10:55:17 2 4
bbc
More generally, people have to choose (vote) between lower taxation and fit-for-purpose infrastucture (eg. taxation systems). Can't have both. People chose Tory tax cuts.
4
20/01/2021 11:12:56 4 6
bbc
When has the Labour led Public Accounts Committee not criticised the government?

I'd take more notice of them if they weren't so blatantly biased.
5
dg
20/01/2021 11:17:45 15 3
bbc
Ministers have been asked over and over again about the lack of support to over 3 million freelancers and self-employed. Ministers have never justified the lack of support. They only talk about those who have received support. It sort of chimes with a philosophy that says "if you have nothing, don't complain; it is enough that other people do have plenty"
11
Bob
20/01/2021 11:55:05 13 20
bbc
Unfortunately the 3m figure is pure hogwash and isn't just freelancers.

For starters over half a million refers to new starters & newly self-employed. They are rightly excluded. If you didn't exclude those people then the fraud levels would be through the roof. It also includes over 1m for those whose self-emp accounts for a fraction of their income (ie. side jobs in addition to normal work).
169
20/01/2021 13:51:10 0 3
bbc
If you can't get Universal Credit then there's income coming into the household or £16k in savings. Use that instead
2
20/01/2021 10:52:54 12 20
bbc
Freelancers can live on some of the National Insurance they didn't pay, and some of the taxes they avoided. Can't be having it both ways.
6
20/01/2021 11:30:17 9 3
bbc
Accept that there is some tax incentive to set up on your own. Part of that is with respect to the risk you are taking and the potential reward to the government of being a viable business with employees in the future. But regardless of that saving a grand or so a year in tax still doesn't make up for almost a year of lost income for the average self employed person or company director.
7
20/01/2021 11:39:15 8 7
bbc
If you earn £37.5k and are furloughed your wage support is up to £2.5k/mth - over 12mths that's £30k of gov't subsidy despite only paying c£8k in tax p.a. (NI plus IT).

If you earn £11,820 and take dividends of £50k on sales of say £100k you'll have paid c.£695 in NI, £6,780 in dividend tax (and probably c. £15k in CT) - i.e. c.£23k overall. Your furlough = £788/month.

Who's subsidising who?!
16
20/01/2021 12:06:12 4 2
bbc
Dont forget about the VAT. on 50k of sales thats means actually £41.6K net of VAT is profit. So you can add potential total of £8,334 contribution to the pot. And that is regardless of profit!
8
20/01/2021 11:16:58 3 12
bbc
Notice they didn't complain when HMRC weren't deducting nearly 30% of their income which is what we Employed PAYE sapps pay as a minimum
15
Stu
20/01/2021 12:06:04 14 4
bbc
Are you aware how much tax they pay? For example:
1) Corporation tax
2) VAT
3) NIC
4) Tax on dividends
5) Personal / Self assessment tax
6) Pension contributions with no employer contributions

They also don't get sick pay, holiday pay, redundancy pay so they aren't as wealthy as permanent employees think.
127
20/01/2021 13:24:49 1 0
bbc
Erm .... it’s pretty much the same for freelancers; and many of those were employees for years paying PAYE. I see many new employees furloughed having paid next to nothing in tax.
9
20/01/2021 11:42:52 58 22
bbc
Ltd co's protect against liability risk. Most dont know what their profit will be or how much they will need to reinvest each year, so dividends are reliant on a variable level of profit which is already taxed at 19% before its even paid, ON TOP IF THAT is a Div tax of 7.5%/31.5%/38.1% . On top of that(!) they are unpaid VAT collectors. Ltd co directors contribute more in tax than any employee.
13
Bob
20/01/2021 11:58:49 46 45
bbc
You can do mathematical gymnastics all you like it doesn't avoid the sheer fact that in the main less tax is paid and that is why people do it.

If there was no benefit people would not do so and there wouldn't be a cottage industry in making it happen.
17
Stu
20/01/2021 12:06:24 9 6
bbc
Also once IR35 is implemented I think the government will be shocked at how little revenue they will receive as business are offering Fixed Term contracts instead of day rate contracts, Good old Tories, possibly have less of a grasp on reality than labour economic advisers!
138
20/01/2021 13:38:40 2 1
bbc
The other reason for doing it is that you can keep dividends at a rate you want.

If you need £29k a year to live as a family, you can pay £12500 salary and £2,000 dividends to both spouses. No Personal Tax that way.

If the company makes £200,000 profit it doesn't matter. It pays the 19%, you pay 7.5% by just drip feeding it later.

You'd be paying 45% on the top part of that as a sole trade.
324
20/01/2021 16:48:42 0 0
bbc
The oh so simple rebuttle to your obfusticated argument is thus - most of the tax you talk about is paid on proffit, which can easily be hidden (e.g. one company rents kit/site from another at a level high enough to use all the proffit) while normal people pay tax on most (or all if they earn enough) of what they earn. 30% of everything is a lot, 50% of a "proffit, probably zero" is not.
411
20/01/2021 17:59:11 1 0
bbc
I agree re Ltd liability but it is rubbish to say you cant pay yourself a salary. As a director you can pay yourself once a year when you know how much profit you have made. I note you have conveniently omitted NI in your calcs as it is here where all the savings are made. Oh and for the record self employed people are also unpaid vat collectors
484
20/01/2021 19:23:40 1 0
bbc
No if it is your company or your self employment you can choose not to take pay out until you know what you made, or need to leave in the business. If more stopped treating it as a way to take monthly incomes from first, rather than leave it in there, they would all survive a lot longer and better. When you retire you catch up with what is left.
10
Bob
20/01/2021 11:46:41 3 7
bbc
The "quirks in the tax system" that they use (or ab-use in some people's eyes) was attempted to be addressed by Mr Hammond a few years back.

Of course it meant in general they'd be contributing more tax. Quite naturally they all threw a hissy fit and Mr Hammond rowed back on his plan.

Alas if only he had stuck to his guns, those people wouldn't be in a spot of bother today!
21
20/01/2021 12:15:14 1 3
bbc
Wrong, it was because the gov't would have to give everyone the full state pension regardless of NI contributions and years in, they would also have to re-invent an 'employee tax' to cover Employer NI. Spreading tax via different names gives the gov't greater freedom for tinkering and revenue generation and putting into all into one single tax makes this harder.
5
dg
20/01/2021 11:17:45 15 3
bbc
Ministers have been asked over and over again about the lack of support to over 3 million freelancers and self-employed. Ministers have never justified the lack of support. They only talk about those who have received support. It sort of chimes with a philosophy that says "if you have nothing, don't complain; it is enough that other people do have plenty"
11
Bob
20/01/2021 11:55:05 13 20
bbc
Unfortunately the 3m figure is pure hogwash and isn't just freelancers.

For starters over half a million refers to new starters & newly self-employed. They are rightly excluded. If you didn't exclude those people then the fraud levels would be through the roof. It also includes over 1m for those whose self-emp accounts for a fraction of their income (ie. side jobs in addition to normal work).
159
T F
20/01/2021 13:46:42 1 1
bbc
The 3 million figure comes from the National Audit Office, the Public Accounts Committee, and the Treasury Select Committee.

What makes you right and them wrong when you deny the figure is accurate?

Newly employed were not excluded. Newly self-employed have been. It does NOT include those who receive under 50% of income from self employment.
271
20/01/2021 15:36:44 3 0
bbc
You are wrong! I went self employed in Aug 2019 after 2 decades of paying taxes as PAYE. Why the gov didn't take my last 3 years of earnings? It's all in black and white on the HMRC website! In these last 10 months I had no work and only managed to claim about £150 a month in UC with a £900 mortgage to pay. Where is the fraud here?
279
20/01/2021 15:42:36 2 0
bbc
Don't talk sense. Of course if there was no cut off date, the system would have got battered. I also have no wish to start supporting shareholders because once that start's far bigger hands would be looking for a hand out.
544
Bo
21/01/2021 09:40:42 0 0
bbc
So it doesn’t matter that freelance person was PAYE before? I can see that everybody around me who is on furlough or has job easily is judging excluded.
Talking about fraud level, half or the people receiving help is fraud, and don’t think that they will pay higher taxes, some of them got grants and still working the same hours , they will use “clever” accounting
12
20/01/2021 11:34:00 57 7
bbc
I will love to highlight the last comment "Those not eligible for support through these schemes can still benefit from the strengthened welfare safety net, accessing help like universal credit."
Is Funny because if you live with partner and he get even a minimum pay from furlough the Universal credit are equal to 0 !!!!how do you pretend to live in london with this? And pay bills/rent/food???????
18
20/01/2021 12:07:13 26 8
bbc
And I wonder why if thats a good enough fall back for self employed, why isnt it good enough for employees?
262
20/01/2021 15:24:00 2 0
bbc
I’d love to know that too?! I did a calculation that said I was entitled to £0 UC but I could claim £73 a week JSA but then on the governments website it says you can no longer claim JSA but you can claim UC but you’re eligible for that because you’re married?! I’m a teacher, my FTC ended 31st Dec, all supply was cancelled due to school closures, I have 2 kids, there are no jobs of any kind?
327
20/01/2021 16:49:24 0 1
bbc
Move out of london... we should subsidise your lifestyle because?
510
20/01/2021 21:58:19 0 0
bbc
Too true, my wife was made redundant just before the first lockdown. Managed to claim job seekers allowance. Decided to open a shop as things started to improve, only to have it all (forcibly) closed down ...again. Can't claim UC as her (dwindling) savings are too high. And when they drop low enough, they then look at the partners incomes etc. As she said, we should divorce! She'd get money then!
554
Bob
21/01/2021 14:27:58 0 0
bbc
So many scams with the self employed companies come and go. Tax and NI avoided
9
20/01/2021 11:42:52 58 22
bbc
Ltd co's protect against liability risk. Most dont know what their profit will be or how much they will need to reinvest each year, so dividends are reliant on a variable level of profit which is already taxed at 19% before its even paid, ON TOP IF THAT is a Div tax of 7.5%/31.5%/38.1% . On top of that(!) they are unpaid VAT collectors. Ltd co directors contribute more in tax than any employee.
13
Bob
20/01/2021 11:58:49 46 45
bbc
You can do mathematical gymnastics all you like it doesn't avoid the sheer fact that in the main less tax is paid and that is why people do it.

If there was no benefit people would not do so and there wouldn't be a cottage industry in making it happen.
20
20/01/2021 12:13:00 13 5
bbc
If youre not a civil servant, then you'll be working for business started because there was a motivation/reward via the tax system Taxation is used to promote activities that contribute to economic growth. Its called risk v reward. Maybe you should share your sneering, nasty, ill educated views with those who started the business you work for risking everything they had? Let us know how you get on
67
20/01/2021 13:14:08 8 7
bbc
Entirely disagree

Having worked for myself for some 7 years, I pay in tax 75% of what I used to earn gross as 40% PAYE employee

So don't tell me HMRC receive less tax as a consequence of me working for myself
134
Pip
20/01/2021 13:36:51 2 1
bbc
Spoons will be open soon enough so back to you daytime job, beer tasting...........?
141
T F
20/01/2021 13:39:46 2 1
bbc
In the 2018/19 tax year, when I did the figures...

First £8424 - employees and self-employed pay the same tax
£8424 to £11850 - se pay £240 more a year
11851 - 13850 - employees pay £20 more a year
30000 - employees pay £1134 more
40000 - employees pay £1824 more
100000 - employees pay £496 more
120000 - se pay £164 more

Take out costs of running a business and the savings are tiny!
148
20/01/2021 13:42:04 2 1
bbc
Oooh! Yes! Being self-employed is like getting a free pass to every VIP lounge.
For pity's sake.
229
20/01/2021 14:37:15 1 2
bbc
You are wrong, we pay more tax into the system than you would as an employee, search it online, we pay 19% corporation Tax and then when we pay ourselves a dividend thats also taxed again @ 7.5% also pay NI and collect VAT for HMRC, also factor in we don't get sick pay or holiday pay either like you do as PAYE.
241
20/01/2021 15:06:26 1 0
bbc
This is nonsense, I have run my Ltd company for 20+ years, initially set up as a Ltd company meant you were not personally liable for debts and that protected my hard worked for home, but banks and car companies now make directors sign personal liability forms.
14
20/01/2021 11:40:44 2 3
bbc
I've lost about one third of my income.
No SEISS because my self employed income is less that 50% of my total, thanks to my pension and a rental property (which pays little or no rent at the moment, due to COVID).
No BBL because my turnover is too small.
No UC because of owning a second property — and I used to have savings too!
No COVID relief when self-isolating as not eligible for UC.
8
20/01/2021 11:16:58 3 12
bbc
Notice they didn't complain when HMRC weren't deducting nearly 30% of their income which is what we Employed PAYE sapps pay as a minimum
15
Stu
20/01/2021 12:06:04 14 4
bbc
Are you aware how much tax they pay? For example:
1) Corporation tax
2) VAT
3) NIC
4) Tax on dividends
5) Personal / Self assessment tax
6) Pension contributions with no employer contributions

They also don't get sick pay, holiday pay, redundancy pay so they aren't as wealthy as permanent employees think.
62
20/01/2021 12:49:49 1 2
bbc
Exactly!
128
Bob
20/01/2021 13:33:04 0 1
bbc
You could pay 1,000,000 different taxes. It doesn't change the fact the overall amount is less!
7
20/01/2021 11:39:15 8 7
bbc
If you earn £37.5k and are furloughed your wage support is up to £2.5k/mth - over 12mths that's £30k of gov't subsidy despite only paying c£8k in tax p.a. (NI plus IT).

If you earn £11,820 and take dividends of £50k on sales of say £100k you'll have paid c.£695 in NI, £6,780 in dividend tax (and probably c. £15k in CT) - i.e. c.£23k overall. Your furlough = £788/month.

Who's subsidising who?!
16
20/01/2021 12:06:12 4 2
bbc
Dont forget about the VAT. on 50k of sales thats means actually £41.6K net of VAT is profit. So you can add potential total of £8,334 contribution to the pot. And that is regardless of profit!
9
20/01/2021 11:42:52 58 22
bbc
Ltd co's protect against liability risk. Most dont know what their profit will be or how much they will need to reinvest each year, so dividends are reliant on a variable level of profit which is already taxed at 19% before its even paid, ON TOP IF THAT is a Div tax of 7.5%/31.5%/38.1% . On top of that(!) they are unpaid VAT collectors. Ltd co directors contribute more in tax than any employee.
17
Stu
20/01/2021 12:06:24 9 6
bbc
Also once IR35 is implemented I think the government will be shocked at how little revenue they will receive as business are offering Fixed Term contracts instead of day rate contracts, Good old Tories, possibly have less of a grasp on reality than labour economic advisers!
12
20/01/2021 11:34:00 57 7
bbc
I will love to highlight the last comment "Those not eligible for support through these schemes can still benefit from the strengthened welfare safety net, accessing help like universal credit."
Is Funny because if you live with partner and he get even a minimum pay from furlough the Universal credit are equal to 0 !!!!how do you pretend to live in london with this? And pay bills/rent/food???????
18
20/01/2021 12:07:13 26 8
bbc
And I wonder why if thats a good enough fall back for self employed, why isnt it good enough for employees?
95
20/01/2021 13:23:11 2 2
bbc
Not sure it helps, turning on each other.
328
20/01/2021 16:49:40 0 1
bbc
It is.
19
20/01/2021 11:44:33 29 4
bbc
The Gov have always been happy to take my taxes while employed/Self Employed. Now self employed so not able to claim from my previous employer & have been cut out by the 50/50 Rule. I for one am fed up of people I know buying fancy cars etc with this gifted money. I hope the same parity is applied to paying back this huge deficit. I had none so expect to pay none!
126
Pip
20/01/2021 13:32:46 1 2
bbc
Unfortunately when it comes to pay back time you'll be on list, and probably near the top as you'll have got yourself a job, being self employed............?
347
20/01/2021 17:01:14 0 0
bbc
I also have had none, funny I dont view you having none as so much of a problem as you clearly do. Yes we will both help pay it back, thats what happens when you live in a nation of 60 million people
13
Bob
20/01/2021 11:58:49 46 45
bbc
You can do mathematical gymnastics all you like it doesn't avoid the sheer fact that in the main less tax is paid and that is why people do it.

If there was no benefit people would not do so and there wouldn't be a cottage industry in making it happen.
20
20/01/2021 12:13:00 13 5
bbc
If youre not a civil servant, then you'll be working for business started because there was a motivation/reward via the tax system Taxation is used to promote activities that contribute to economic growth. Its called risk v reward. Maybe you should share your sneering, nasty, ill educated views with those who started the business you work for risking everything they had? Let us know how you get on
136
Bob
20/01/2021 13:37:25 1 1
bbc
And if you put your shoes on back to front you'll walk funny. But just like your post, that's not relevant to the debate. Throwing in extra bits without actually passing comment on what was written is a classic case of admitting to losing the argument without actually admitting it.

Nicely done.
489
20/01/2021 19:28:03 2 0
bbc
Vast swathes that work for themselves as there is no alternative in their craft. Basically it is self virtual unemployment not a tax or business risk taking greedy eyes on the gains. Most do not want to be 'in business' just want to do their thing and get by.
10
Bob
20/01/2021 11:46:41 3 7
bbc
The "quirks in the tax system" that they use (or ab-use in some people's eyes) was attempted to be addressed by Mr Hammond a few years back.

Of course it meant in general they'd be contributing more tax. Quite naturally they all threw a hissy fit and Mr Hammond rowed back on his plan.

Alas if only he had stuck to his guns, those people wouldn't be in a spot of bother today!
21
20/01/2021 12:15:14 1 3
bbc
Wrong, it was because the gov't would have to give everyone the full state pension regardless of NI contributions and years in, they would also have to re-invent an 'employee tax' to cover Employer NI. Spreading tax via different names gives the gov't greater freedom for tinkering and revenue generation and putting into all into one single tax makes this harder.
119
20/01/2021 13:28:57 0 1
bbc
Wrong You would get a noncon pension anyway.
22
20/01/2021 11:57:50 2 3
bbc
I work in the beauty sector (s/employed) & haven’t received any money since the 23.03.20! 303 days ago

- No SEIS too newly self employed
- Central Beds C rejected my 3 applications for LRG as I don’t have b/rates. I rent a room so b/rates are part of the room rent. Bedford (9 miles away) paid grants to those who rent rooms.
- CBC have rejected my app for ARG as beauty isn’t a supported sector.
122
Bob
20/01/2021 13:29:57 0 1
bbc
You either have substantial savings or have left part of your story out. Benefit system exists for people with no income and no money.
Time for employees to put a sock in it and stop commenting. You clearly havent got a clue. Its the risk takers that will drag us out of the economic mess we are about to descend in to. Not you. You just take your furlough, or do your job and stop the whining about the tiny tax advantage small biz owners get for the enormous risk they take to provide you with a job. We are sick and tired of it. Removed
57
20/01/2021 12:51:33 38 29
bbc
Clap Clap Clap .... Oddly, this page doesn't seem to be as badly infiltrated by Socialism as is the normal on this site !
70
xlr
20/01/2021 13:15:42 11 14
bbc
If the 'risk takers' are that gifted I'm sure they'll survive. It is, after all, why they keep saying they justify large salaries.

But sadly I fear they're already banging on Boris' door demanding the 48 hour week and break times come under more pressure.
84
20/01/2021 13:18:59 15 6
bbc
Yes let's blame the people who do the work, not the mechanisms of the antiquated tax system.

Bit weird you want to attack them and not Amazon, who did rather well in 2020 thank you very much. Each to their own...
102
20/01/2021 13:24:52 8 6
bbc
You've been found out mate. At least accept it gracefully and take comfort in what you made while it lasted. Hopefully HMRC will wake up and we won't go back to those times.
107
20/01/2021 13:25:49 12 1
bbc
I don't think it really helps, turning on each other.
120
Bob
20/01/2021 13:29:03 10 6
bbc
No. It is the people who pay the just amount of tax that keep the country going. Tax is what helps the country pay it's way in the world. Not people doing what they can to pay at little as possible.
130
20/01/2021 13:34:24 2 4
bbc
Well said.
190
20/01/2021 14:06:58 1 1
bbc
No it is time employers paid more tax so we can increase benefits for those not fortunate enough to have a job...
200
20/01/2021 14:02:43 2 1
bbc
If businesses are struggling, it can't have been a very good idea to start with. Risk vs Reward. As for freelances, you wanted control, now you have all the control you ever wanted - completely self-reliant.
257
20/01/2021 15:23:02 1 0
bbc
yes and with Risk there is reward, but ultimately there is failure otherwise there is no risk! This is about tax structures for employement not about risking ones capital! The will be some soul searching by freelancers on what is the right structure for themselves to gain income.
289
20/01/2021 16:06:22 2 2
bbc
A lot of people set up companies and have employed only themselves. All have taken advantage of the furlough scheme.
303
20/01/2021 16:23:43 2 0
bbc
Exploiters, we need protecting from egotistical narcissistic predators like yourself. Dangerous, deluded and with a massive self entitlement complex.
314
20/01/2021 16:39:03 1 0
bbc
I agree, then again this is the BBC so handouts are obviously the order of the day and trying to help doesnt figure, why would it...
323
20/01/2021 16:46:03 2 2
bbc
What a delightful employer you are. Anybody who is employed by you is extremely lucky, and should bow in gratitude at your generosity.

How dare anyone criticise a legend like you, who runs his business solely to employ the less well off, with no personal gain. You truly are "special".

From a business owner employing 15 people, that has run throughout the pandemic.
479
20/01/2021 19:21:26 0 0
bbc
I don't work for a 'small business', have never been furloughed or claimed any benefits, and don't employ someone to ensure I pay next to no tax. As for risk taking, when you frack it up you just close the biz and open a new one.
491
20/01/2021 19:32:01 0 0
bbc
What an arrogant ignorant fool you are...

Those "risk takers" as you call them with employees would not be making any money if it wasn't for their employees...

So YOU put a sock in it and shut your ignorant gob and remember that without those employees you'd make sod all you arrogant pretentious imbecile and be grateful anyone wants to work for a self serving foul person like you...
24
20/01/2021 12:20:48 14 4
bbc
Inevitably, some here may be saying self-employed or ltd co. don't pay taxes as general statement, however, we pay corp tax & NIC on salary & tax on dividends inline with HMRC rates. Luckily my work wasn't affected during pandemic but there are lot of people without any support.Govt happy to pay big corps so that they can pay dividends and executive pays but not small companies or Self employed
27
20/01/2021 12:22:31 11 14
bbc
Yes, you're right...the issue is more with people paying themselves a 12k salary and 100k in dividends.
28
20/01/2021 12:24:09 7 3
bbc
They do say that - all employees of course. When actually Ltd company owners contribute more in tax than any employee could ever hope to. Corporation Tax, NI, Dividend Tax and Income tax, we pay it all. And on top of that, everybody seems to forget the role of unpaid VAT collector!!!!
25
20/01/2021 12:20:59 17 3
bbc
between Covid and IR35 the tax revenue for the country is gong to be dramatically decreased for the next few years. I've been forced from a contract role to a FTC (worst of both worlds) and estimate my tax revenue will be about 40% down in the coming year for doing the same job. Fortunately I have continued to work through the pandemic but have friends who are royally stuff!
35
20/01/2021 12:44:14 18 6
bbc
Yep - IR35 has driven more technical knowledge/experience back overseas than Brexit ever could.
26
20/01/2021 12:21:58 3 2
bbc
I went s/e in 2018. By 2019 was increasing client base well & turning in a decent profit, some of which I re-invested in the business. In 2018, to cushion start-up, I had a p/t PAYE job one day a week. Not eligible for SEISS on the 50-50 rule. That PAYE employer refused to furlough me so no income or support for 10 months. Now drowning in debt with savings gone. "Nobody will be left behind"!
41
20/01/2021 12:47:44 1 2
bbc
Universal Credit?
114
Bob
20/01/2021 13:27:56 0 0
bbc
If you have no savings you are eligible for benefits. I suspect you are not telling the truth and your earnings from your PAYE job is high or being willing ignorant to support available.
24
20/01/2021 12:20:48 14 4
bbc
Inevitably, some here may be saying self-employed or ltd co. don't pay taxes as general statement, however, we pay corp tax & NIC on salary & tax on dividends inline with HMRC rates. Luckily my work wasn't affected during pandemic but there are lot of people without any support.Govt happy to pay big corps so that they can pay dividends and executive pays but not small companies or Self employed
27
20/01/2021 12:22:31 11 14
bbc
Yes, you're right...the issue is more with people paying themselves a 12k salary and 100k in dividends.
30
20/01/2021 12:31:58 7 3
bbc
Yes because that's what current rules allow & is not illegal. After first 2K in dividends one still have to pay all the income tax as per the HMRC income tax stipulated bands for different levels of earnings. Therefore, if you take into account, corp tax, NI on salary and tax on dividends, I pay more tax. The reason for consultancy work wasn't to save taxes but risk and approach to working.
31
20/01/2021 12:35:03 10 2
bbc
so thats an income of £112,000. A 100k dividend comes from 100k of profit on which 19% has already been paid in Corp Tax. So thats about £22k in CT. To generate that revenue, 20% VAT would have been paid, thats another £24k. On top of that, personal taxes inc div tax mean an additional £18,900. Total tax revenue contributed - approx £64,900. More than 50%.... so sorry, whats your point exactly?
203
20/01/2021 14:05:48 1 0
bbc
..and 100k dividend is still due 19k corp tax .....& btw, who the hell has 112k after costs ??
369
20/01/2021 17:19:52 0 1
bbc
And the issue with this is that there is zero employee NI on dividend and zero employer NI also. Essentially its a way to avoid NI (the empolyer NI is higher than the employee in most cases by the way). Also you can control profit if have a good accountant, its not like you are paying tax on the sum total of everything like everyone else.
519
20/01/2021 22:09:06 0 0
bbc
you do of course realise that those dividends have already been taxed via corporation tax?

I'm sure you know that, nobody could be foolish enough to make that mistake?
24
20/01/2021 12:20:48 14 4
bbc
Inevitably, some here may be saying self-employed or ltd co. don't pay taxes as general statement, however, we pay corp tax & NIC on salary & tax on dividends inline with HMRC rates. Luckily my work wasn't affected during pandemic but there are lot of people without any support.Govt happy to pay big corps so that they can pay dividends and executive pays but not small companies or Self employed
28
20/01/2021 12:24:09 7 3
bbc
They do say that - all employees of course. When actually Ltd company owners contribute more in tax than any employee could ever hope to. Corporation Tax, NI, Dividend Tax and Income tax, we pay it all. And on top of that, everybody seems to forget the role of unpaid VAT collector!!!!
29
20/01/2021 12:27:51 6 5
bbc
The government should have given a monthly support fee to ALL people with NI numbers.

£750 a month.

This would have been fairer.

And simple way of avoiding fraud.
61
20/01/2021 12:49:38 3 2
bbc
You know that you get a NI number even if you've NEVER worked a day in your life, don't you !!!!
27
20/01/2021 12:22:31 11 14
bbc
Yes, you're right...the issue is more with people paying themselves a 12k salary and 100k in dividends.
30
20/01/2021 12:31:58 7 3
bbc
Yes because that's what current rules allow & is not illegal. After first 2K in dividends one still have to pay all the income tax as per the HMRC income tax stipulated bands for different levels of earnings. Therefore, if you take into account, corp tax, NI on salary and tax on dividends, I pay more tax. The reason for consultancy work wasn't to save taxes but risk and approach to working.
27
20/01/2021 12:22:31 11 14
bbc
Yes, you're right...the issue is more with people paying themselves a 12k salary and 100k in dividends.
31
20/01/2021 12:35:03 10 2
bbc
so thats an income of £112,000. A 100k dividend comes from 100k of profit on which 19% has already been paid in Corp Tax. So thats about £22k in CT. To generate that revenue, 20% VAT would have been paid, thats another £24k. On top of that, personal taxes inc div tax mean an additional £18,900. Total tax revenue contributed - approx £64,900. More than 50%.... so sorry, whats your point exactly?
33
20/01/2021 12:37:01 2 3
bbc
well nearly more than 50% lol
198
20/01/2021 14:09:24 3 0
bbc
Indeed - so many have zero understanding of the corp tax and dividend tax system they seem to think it's all free money, whereas actually it comes out about the same.
32
20/01/2021 12:36:51 6 13
bbc
Those who actively avoided paying National Insurance and PAYE should accept that when you fail to pay into the system you cannot expect to take from the system.
37
20/01/2021 12:45:21 6 3
bbc
Before sharing your lack of knowledge and understanding, Can you please perform a calculation comparing a ltd company earning 120k and it's contribution in the form of corp tax, NI on salary of 12.5 and tax on dividends vs a employee earning 120K and his her contribution in tax and NI and come back and tell us who has contributed more in taxes (NI and all other taxes, not just pay as you earn)
38
BD
20/01/2021 12:45:33 2 3
bbc
The article was about certain groups of self-employed people not receiving financial assistance under the support scheme.
Are you accusing all self-employed of actively avoiding paying NI and tax?
I suggest you do some research before making such wildly inaccurate statements.
47
20/01/2021 12:44:46 2 3
bbc
You should get your information right before posting porkies!
112
20/01/2021 13:27:22 0 2
bbc
What's the betting Whoaml is a Brexiteer?
201
20/01/2021 14:09:30 1 0
bbc
Whoami: You are another person who has NO idea whatsoever about self employment or freelancing, who is only capable of making the most totally insane, uneducated and simple-minded remarks on this site.

If you are unable to post anything that is sensible or constructive to assist the current situation, then DO NOT post anything at all.
31
20/01/2021 12:35:03 10 2
bbc
so thats an income of £112,000. A 100k dividend comes from 100k of profit on which 19% has already been paid in Corp Tax. So thats about £22k in CT. To generate that revenue, 20% VAT would have been paid, thats another £24k. On top of that, personal taxes inc div tax mean an additional £18,900. Total tax revenue contributed - approx £64,900. More than 50%.... so sorry, whats your point exactly?
33
20/01/2021 12:37:01 2 3
bbc
well nearly more than 50% lol
34
20/01/2021 12:41:44 2 16
bbc
Get a proper job and start paying proper taxes, stop avoiding paying for everything and then moan when you get nothing. If you don't like it get a proper job.
36
20/01/2021 12:45:00 17 4
bbc
"start paying proper taxes, stop avoiding paying for everything " So you don't see Corporation Tax on the Companies profit as a proper tax? Like so many envious and greedy/lazy permanent employees; many of these Contractor staff pay more in Tax than you through PAYE. Get your facts straigh rather than showing your ignorance
68
20/01/2021 13:14:36 4 2
bbc
I went freelance as a sole trader after a redundancy and no jobs around. I worked out roughly what % I paid in-house for tax and student loan and saved that. ...it's been the same as I pay in tax and loan as a sole trader. Except I get no sick pay, no pension etc. etc. I like the perks of freelancing but the idea that ALL freelancers and self employed are out there playing the system is stupid.
109
20/01/2021 13:26:16 0 0
bbc
what's the betting Robert is Brexiteer?
184
20/01/2021 13:59:23 1 0
bbc
robert: Absolute totally insane rubbish, and you should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself for making such an uneducated, imbecilic comment.

For your information, the self employed and freelancers DO do proper jobs and pay taxes, it is just the case that you have NOT got any savvy at all to realise this.

So get your facts straight in future before posting such imbecilic filth as you have done.
25
20/01/2021 12:20:59 17 3
bbc
between Covid and IR35 the tax revenue for the country is gong to be dramatically decreased for the next few years. I've been forced from a contract role to a FTC (worst of both worlds) and estimate my tax revenue will be about 40% down in the coming year for doing the same job. Fortunately I have continued to work through the pandemic but have friends who are royally stuff!
35
20/01/2021 12:44:14 18 6
bbc
Yep - IR35 has driven more technical knowledge/experience back overseas than Brexit ever could.
173
20/01/2021 13:52:01 0 0
bbc
Oh know, people who should have been employees paying employee level tax can no longer tax dodge, whatever will we do...
353
20/01/2021 17:05:40 0 1
bbc
Clearly other countries dont collect tax, silly me I thought they did. My favorite is companies paying contractors in loans, which are never paid back, genius.
34
20/01/2021 12:41:44 2 16
bbc
Get a proper job and start paying proper taxes, stop avoiding paying for everything and then moan when you get nothing. If you don't like it get a proper job.
36
20/01/2021 12:45:00 17 4
bbc
"start paying proper taxes, stop avoiding paying for everything " So you don't see Corporation Tax on the Companies profit as a proper tax? Like so many envious and greedy/lazy permanent employees; many of these Contractor staff pay more in Tax than you through PAYE. Get your facts straigh rather than showing your ignorance
53
20/01/2021 13:01:54 3 2
bbc
Spot on!
Jobsworth mentality. Would these people use their "pensions " to bail themselves out of financial problems? No, they still want to paid their pension by the state and also have and out from the govt.
32
20/01/2021 12:36:51 6 13
bbc
Those who actively avoided paying National Insurance and PAYE should accept that when you fail to pay into the system you cannot expect to take from the system.
37
20/01/2021 12:45:21 6 3
bbc
Before sharing your lack of knowledge and understanding, Can you please perform a calculation comparing a ltd company earning 120k and it's contribution in the form of corp tax, NI on salary of 12.5 and tax on dividends vs a employee earning 120K and his her contribution in tax and NI and come back and tell us who has contributed more in taxes (NI and all other taxes, not just pay as you earn)
111
Bob
20/01/2021 13:26:47 1 1
bbc
The person paying themselves a full salary vs. dividends pays more tax.
32
20/01/2021 12:36:51 6 13
bbc
Those who actively avoided paying National Insurance and PAYE should accept that when you fail to pay into the system you cannot expect to take from the system.
38
BD
20/01/2021 12:45:33 2 3
bbc
The article was about certain groups of self-employed people not receiving financial assistance under the support scheme.
Are you accusing all self-employed of actively avoiding paying NI and tax?
I suggest you do some research before making such wildly inaccurate statements.
39
20/01/2021 12:46:43 3 12
bbc
"Louise, 28, of St Albans, in Hertfordshire, has not had a single penny of assistance since her last job ended eight months ago."

Why doesn't she claim Universal Credit?

Savings over £16,000 maybe?
43
20/01/2021 12:50:40 15 7
bbc
Why should she have to use her savings when others are handed out something for nothing. Rishi is playing God, deciding who gets and who doesn't.
Louise may have foregone a great deal to accrue those savings.
52
Stu
20/01/2021 13:01:05 3 2
bbc
So does that mean that if someone has equity in their home that is greater than £16k they too shouldn't be able to claim UC because after all that is money they have albeit not in the bank
140
20/01/2021 13:39:11 0 0
bbc
That was a totally stupid assumption to make. Just because someone is self employed or freelancing DOES NOT mean that they are super rich, as they DO have bills to pay just like millions of other people do.
40
20/01/2021 12:46:48 92 17
bbc
One things that's clear from the comments on HYS is that there is a lot of bitter and resentful people who don't like freelancers, self-employed and small company directors.

They might pay tax differently (and often more) than most, create employment and contribute to society in different ways than your traditional employee BUT that does not make them any less deserving for help if needed.
73
20/01/2021 13:16:05 40 14
bbc
True that. I used to be a contractor, until the Tory tax raid on IR35.

It then became more economical for me to be PAYE.

HYS is full of jealous grouches.
145
20/01/2021 13:40:35 5 2
bbc
The risk of being a business owner far outweighs the benefits of being so in most cases. But those who are employees don't realise this. Would they put their house on the line for their pay packets? Probably not. But business owners do, every day.
318
20/01/2021 16:44:13 4 0
bbc
They might equally pay the minimum tax they can get away with, sure everyone wants to minimise their tax its just that most of us cant and they can. We are free to think that nobody deserves help, if we wish, it is after all a free country. Fundamentally though, if you play the system, dont be surprised when the system plays you, and dont expect sympthay.
459
20/01/2021 18:56:58 1 0
bbc
Not true. Freelancers are extremely valued. What isn't valued is avoidance measures such as PSC Company Secretaries being spouses with no involvement in the PSC operation.
26
20/01/2021 12:21:58 3 2
bbc
I went s/e in 2018. By 2019 was increasing client base well & turning in a decent profit, some of which I re-invested in the business. In 2018, to cushion start-up, I had a p/t PAYE job one day a week. Not eligible for SEISS on the 50-50 rule. That PAYE employer refused to furlough me so no income or support for 10 months. Now drowning in debt with savings gone. "Nobody will be left behind"!
41
20/01/2021 12:47:44 1 2
bbc
Universal Credit?
175
20/01/2021 13:53:10 1 0
bbc
Have not been able to access yet as I had (past tense) savings just over the limit. There are all sorts of things that exclude people from accessing UC, including occupational pensions, owning property, legacy payents. being in receipt of a dead spouse's pension/PPI etc. Over 60% of all those excluded from support (2.9 million - NAO statistics) cannot access UC and have had nothing.
42
liz
20/01/2021 12:49:51 113 18
bbc
for those of you who seem to think the self employed pay no taxes this is not correct - we pay income tax, we pay NI, we pay corporation tax we pay tax on dividends over 2500
we get no benefits no holidays and no sick pay
I am sure there are the odd few who have worked the system but for the rest of us we have paid a lot in taxes and not to receive even £10 from the government is disgraceful
60
20/01/2021 12:54:58 67 44
bbc
80% of the salary you paid yourself from your Ltd Company would have been available for furlough payments IF, in the last 3 years, you'd actually paid yourself a salary and the tax/NI that goes with it !!!
79
Bob
20/01/2021 13:17:58 30 10
bbc
No one thinks the self employed pay no tax. You are putting words into people's comments.

What people, rightly, think is that many self employed people pay themselves in tax-efficient ways.

Few would do different.

But if you play the system, you have to take the hit when the system bites back. Can't have it both ways.

A director can still furlough on the small salary they did pay themselves.
167
20/01/2021 13:48:35 6 14
bbc
You chose it.
304
20/01/2021 16:26:27 1 2
bbc
A selfemployed person doesnt Pay Corp Tax or Dividend tax, as persons paying these taxs are employed under PAYE
305
20/01/2021 16:27:35 0 0
bbc
Additionally someone under PAYE could have been furloughed
316
20/01/2021 16:40:50 4 6
bbc
No benifits, no holidays and no sick pay? You get all of these, you just have to pay for them yourself - the clue is in the word "self" in "self employed". Oh, also, dont try and imply that everyone who is self-employed pays the correct tax, we all know that isnt true, maybe you do, maybe not, doesnt change much of anything.
404
20/01/2021 17:52:01 2 0
bbc
If you are self employed, yes you pay tax and nic, but not corporation tax nor would you have dividends - that is not self employment
472
20/01/2021 19:06:18 5 0
bbc
We all know most of you pay yourselves Min wage. Employ family members mind wage. Claim everything against tax. Then pay dividends rather than wages as they attract low tax.
That’s fine but stop bleating now your legal evasion has led to legal refusal to bail you out.
PAYE pay in far more so get the benefits at the other end.
504
20/01/2021 21:19:03 1 0
bbc
You cannot be self employed receive dividends and pay corporation tax at the same tome
552
Bob
21/01/2021 14:25:30 0 0
bbc
Many avoid tax by paying themselves minimum pay and paying themselves dividends that attract a lower rate of tax and no NI. IT is down to you as the employer whether you pay holidays or sick pay, You also pay a low rate of NI
39
20/01/2021 12:46:43 3 12
bbc
"Louise, 28, of St Albans, in Hertfordshire, has not had a single penny of assistance since her last job ended eight months ago."

Why doesn't she claim Universal Credit?

Savings over £16,000 maybe?
43
20/01/2021 12:50:40 15 7
bbc
Why should she have to use her savings when others are handed out something for nothing. Rishi is playing God, deciding who gets and who doesn't.
Louise may have foregone a great deal to accrue those savings.
89
Bob
20/01/2021 13:21:18 1 6
bbc
So you're saying that any time anything unexpected happens, pandemic or no pandemic, that you shouldn't dip into your savings and instead the government should pay out?
44
20/01/2021 12:50:45 41 10
bbc
It seems so unfair. As a director of my own small limited company and working from home for the last 11 years I too have "fallen through the gaps" My business is linked directly to the hospitality industry so there is no money coming in at all and yet because I don't pay commercial rates I can't make a claim. Can't even furlough myself!. It's brutal, really brutal.
No, you haven't ... You are getting back what you've paid in for the last 11 years ... Sounds like that's a big, fat zero ! Removed
171
20/01/2021 13:51:16 6 0
bbc
If you'd paid yourself a proper salary, you can furlough that. Just can't claim for time spent on the business.

If you paid yourself £8424 and dividended the rest, that's the risk. Dividends are not guaranteed, which is one reason for the lower tax rate.
344
20/01/2021 16:59:06 0 1
bbc
Not sure you should be able to furlough yourself even in a perfect world to be honest. The point of furlough isnt "free money for everyone" its "keep people employed for a short time until things improve". As a director, you are accountable and it sounds like you are taking accountability, though you would like to have had free money, obviously. I wouldnt say brutal, maybe for your employes.
461
20/01/2021 18:59:33 0 0
bbc
Not true. You can furlough yourself.
45
20/01/2021 12:38:38 7 12
bbc
Being based on the tax paid over the last 3 years was the fairest way to do it .... You didn't pay tax then, why should my tax now go to you !!!
59
20/01/2021 12:54:08 4 5
bbc
I was PAYE before going self employed in Aug 2019 and paid all my taxes. Get your facts right before making evil comments.
76
20/01/2021 13:11:56 0 1
bbc
Did pay tax. Plenty. Look at the “rules” HMRC created in order to exclude people fromSEISS.
101
JD
20/01/2021 13:24:39 0 0
bbc
I went self employed in October 2019, got some nice work which encouraged me to take more training, but since Feb 2020 have had 4 days work. I have had no help at all and have used the rainy-day-money I knew to save. My tax record is there to read, HMRC took every penny they should have, but I need the tax rebates, which I guess I will get, and I have supported myself when the govt did nothing.
46
20/01/2021 12:44:03 8 7
bbc
This is breach of equality and human rights. I went self employed in Aug 2019 after 2 decades of paying taxes as PAYE. Why the gov didn't take my last 3 years of earnings? It's all in black and white on the HMRC website! In these last 10 months I had no work and only managed to claim about £150 a month in UC with a £900 mortgage to pay. How can this be fair?????
75
20/01/2021 13:17:07 3 2
bbc
I'm the same, went self-employed in July 2019 and no help from Sunak aside from UC. Also no work out there for me either, so try explaining that to the Job Centre adviser on the monthly phone call about how I'm doing RE finding work! Sunak's plans have not helped anyone who really needs it.
32
20/01/2021 12:36:51 6 13
bbc
Those who actively avoided paying National Insurance and PAYE should accept that when you fail to pay into the system you cannot expect to take from the system.
47
20/01/2021 12:44:46 2 3
bbc
You should get your information right before posting porkies!
48
20/01/2021 12:54:23 27 14
bbc
Rishi Sunak thinks himself in favour because he's dishing out cash to furloughed workers when in fact he's playing God, deciding who get's money and who doesn't.

i.e. Directors may pay less NI but pay corporation tax at 20% on profits, dividend tax at 7.5% (LRT) and 32.5% (HRT) and VAT, probably 5-8% generated on invoices.

We're supposed to all be in this together, but aren't.
54
20/01/2021 13:02:28 23 11
bbc
Exactly, are you a Director of a Ltd company?. I am, I get zero help, my business is on its knees because they keep shutting the economy down. Now it would not be so bad if they stopped shutting the economy, but now, the economy is ruined mate. I refuse to pay a single penny in tax for the next 5 years whilst my business recovers from your purposeful made mess OK London Government, you hear that?
69
20/01/2021 13:15:06 2 1
bbc
Couldnt agree more many of us are now redundant and only qualify for Job seekers and nothing else but we still have bills and mortgages to pay, if we rented we get covered from UC but nothing for th emillions who have been in work and paid taxes and have no chance of finding new work in the current market, what about a tax rebate for all of use from last year to help out!
71
20/01/2021 13:15:43 5 7
bbc
Why dont you pay yourself a salary? then you save on the corp tax and divi tax.
We all know the reason - corp tax + dividend tax is less than PAYE rates.

Fair enough; but dont expect the same support in hard times when you pay in less in good.
124
20/01/2021 13:30:43 1 0
bbc
You are totally correct about the lies that the highly incompetent government keep stating about being in this together, which Johnson and his mob are NOT. They don't give a toss about anyone else as long as they are still holding onto their jobs and being paid extortionate, non-deserving salaries. In view of their incompetence, they all deserve to lose their jobs and stripped of their wealth.
354
20/01/2021 17:07:41 0 0
bbc
We are supposed to all contriubte to tax and NI, but dont. Dont expect sympethy for playing the system, its not big and its not clever.
419
20/01/2021 18:09:17 0 0
bbc
Earth to tango lima CT is actually 19% and VAT is only the money you have collected from customers on behalf of HMRC. It is not a tax on you or your company. Oh an BTW the NI you seem to dismiss is actually around 25% (13 for employer and 12 for employee) and this saving more than offsets your CT and Dividends
464
20/01/2021 19:01:51 0 0
bbc
Is your company Secretary your spouse for convenience? PSC consultancy charge rates should be agreed at a sustainable business level.
49
20/01/2021 12:55:53 10 9
bbc
I will give you 1 example , window company earns £150,000 a year, £50,000 paid through bank the rest in cash .He pays his 2 window installers , who also claim benefits £250 a week each no tax paid , he only pays tax on the bank payments and says he paid another £10,000 in cash . Typical self employed , just here'd he's now moaning because no one once to pay him in cash anymore .Time HMRC caught .
55
20/01/2021 13:02:59 12 1
bbc
If you have all that inside information of this window company you should report it to HMRC.
Go to:- Report fraud to HMRC - GOV.UK
80
20/01/2021 13:17:58 2 2
bbc
Typical self employed? So all self employed people are crooks and cheating the system. How arrogant.
I am not self-employed you ignorant arrogant and pompous English idiot. I am a Limited Company Director of a company that has been established for over 20 years. We are no fly by knight, like the company you work for, we are a highly profitable enterprise that claims NOTHING from this Government, NOTHING. So say again, your ignorance as a peoples in England knows no boundaries. You are not liked. Removed
50
20/01/2021 12:57:56 15 8
bbc
But this is the UK Gov for you. They have become obsessed with furloughing certain industry and that is it. No help for Limited Company Directors, none at all, these are at least 700,000 small businesses, possibly employing upwards of 5m their alone, but no help for the Directors. Not all Directors are minted you stupid London Government, very short sighted and very, very English in mentality.
72
20/01/2021 13:15:54 9 3
bbc
Sorry DCS but I'm the director of a small company who has always paid themselves through the payroll system. You just pay yourself via dividends as it is more tax efficient for you. You took that choice & no one saw the pandemic coming. HMRC must do what it can for the majority & where it can prove the data so someone will miss out. Good luck
51
20/01/2021 13:00:17 10 9
bbc
To those who are against the self employed, have you never paid in cash to avoid VAT?
Secondly if all self employed look for jobs, those of you who are in jobs will join the unemployment benefits Q!
66
20/01/2021 13:12:56 8 2
bbc
Agree. Not all self-employed people are crooks. I myself will only work if there are contracts in place and invoices to prove payment.
222
CJR
20/01/2021 14:28:19 0 0
bbc
Correct I don’t know how many jobs I have lost to abusive households when I say it’s not possible to avoid the VAT, threatened to leave negative reviews etc,personally now I steer well clear, you get a very good idea of the client after speaking to them on the phone surprise it’s normally the above average earning that’s wanting to avoid paying VAT.
39
20/01/2021 12:46:43 3 12
bbc
"Louise, 28, of St Albans, in Hertfordshire, has not had a single penny of assistance since her last job ended eight months ago."

Why doesn't she claim Universal Credit?

Savings over £16,000 maybe?
52
Stu
20/01/2021 13:01:05 3 2
bbc
So does that mean that if someone has equity in their home that is greater than £16k they too shouldn't be able to claim UC because after all that is money they have albeit not in the bank
36
20/01/2021 12:45:00 17 4
bbc
"start paying proper taxes, stop avoiding paying for everything " So you don't see Corporation Tax on the Companies profit as a proper tax? Like so many envious and greedy/lazy permanent employees; many of these Contractor staff pay more in Tax than you through PAYE. Get your facts straigh rather than showing your ignorance
53
20/01/2021 13:01:54 3 2
bbc
Spot on!
Jobsworth mentality. Would these people use their "pensions " to bail themselves out of financial problems? No, they still want to paid their pension by the state and also have and out from the govt.
48
20/01/2021 12:54:23 27 14
bbc
Rishi Sunak thinks himself in favour because he's dishing out cash to furloughed workers when in fact he's playing God, deciding who get's money and who doesn't.

i.e. Directors may pay less NI but pay corporation tax at 20% on profits, dividend tax at 7.5% (LRT) and 32.5% (HRT) and VAT, probably 5-8% generated on invoices.

We're supposed to all be in this together, but aren't.
54
20/01/2021 13:02:28 23 11
bbc
Exactly, are you a Director of a Ltd company?. I am, I get zero help, my business is on its knees because they keep shutting the economy down. Now it would not be so bad if they stopped shutting the economy, but now, the economy is ruined mate. I refuse to pay a single penny in tax for the next 5 years whilst my business recovers from your purposeful made mess OK London Government, you hear that?
82
20/01/2021 13:13:51 3 5
bbc
Me too, I just spent £17000 on 50 gold sovereigns to remove any corporation tax liability for this year. The accountants will put it through as stock and it wipes out my meagre profit for 2020. I got nothing, so they're getting nothing.
357
20/01/2021 17:10:28 0 0
bbc
I hope you try that and end up in prison, will be rather amusing. You realise COVID is a thing outside of London right? You should probably not post again, most people here are happy to see you brought down to their level. Im not getting any free money either, its terrible...
422
20/01/2021 18:10:30 0 0
bbc
Similar. My Ltd. business turnover has been extremely low and intermittent, so much so that salary has been set a £0 for almost two years. As for relying on UC, my NHS-employed wife has hard-earned life savings over the qualifying threshold so that makes any claim null and void. I have been doing handyman/decorating when snd where I can to help make ends meet.
49
20/01/2021 12:55:53 10 9
bbc
I will give you 1 example , window company earns £150,000 a year, £50,000 paid through bank the rest in cash .He pays his 2 window installers , who also claim benefits £250 a week each no tax paid , he only pays tax on the bank payments and says he paid another £10,000 in cash . Typical self employed , just here'd he's now moaning because no one once to pay him in cash anymore .Time HMRC caught .
55
20/01/2021 13:02:59 12 1
bbc
If you have all that inside information of this window company you should report it to HMRC.
Go to:- Report fraud to HMRC - GOV.UK
56
20/01/2021 12:48:18 36 9
bbc
Hand Car-Wash place with 30 people on their "books" at £8,000 a year, don't have to pay NI or benefits. Pay these people weekly salary out of the undeclared cash they take, oddly, £240,000 a year so ZERO Corporation tax either. £8,000 per employee through the books, no tax anywhere. Come furlough time, Company is going to get 80% of that £240,000 a year. SIMPLE THEFT !
63
20/01/2021 13:11:40 39 7
bbc
Report it to HMRC then. Bitching on here will not stop the practice!
186
20/01/2021 14:02:01 4 0
bbc
That's just plain wrong and highlights a complete ignorance of how furlough works (which is linked to PAYE/NIC and earnings) - what you are proposing just can't be done without alerting HMRC to a major fraud - stop spreading fake news and scaremongering!
214
CJR
20/01/2021 14:22:47 1 0
bbc
Please post your factual evidence, or is this your interpretation of what’s happening, there is a big difference in facts and fiction.
232
20/01/2021 14:41:09 1 0
bbc
Why is the company going to get 80% of £240,000??????
294
20/01/2021 16:14:33 3 0
bbc
If the £240,000 cash was never declared to HMRC then how would the company receive 80% of it via the Furlough scheme which uses real time PAYE data to calculate entitlements?
321
20/01/2021 16:45:14 0 0
bbc
I completely agree, this is theft. BUT... not all contractors receive cash in hand and operate as you suggest
351
20/01/2021 17:03:54 3 0
bbc
I'm sure at a place like that the workers will be on zero-hours contracts. So haven't received anything while not working.
Time for employees to put a sock in it and stop commenting. You clearly havent got a clue. Its the risk takers that will drag us out of the economic mess we are about to descend in to. Not you. You just take your furlough, or do your job and stop the whining about the tiny tax advantage small biz owners get for the enormous risk they take to provide you with a job. We are sick and tired of it. Removed
57
20/01/2021 12:51:33 38 29
bbc
Clap Clap Clap .... Oddly, this page doesn't seem to be as badly infiltrated by Socialism as is the normal on this site !
121
Pip
20/01/2021 13:29:08 6 3
bbc
I'm a life long Socialist, and have run my Engineering Design Ltd. company for 25 years, I've just had to close it down as no help coming my way. I agree with nearly all the comments from similar people on here, hope my infiltration doesn't bother your narrative to much......?
139
20/01/2021 13:38:54 2 0
bbc
as badly infiltrated by Socialism
Thank you bringing this to the discussion.
250
20/01/2021 15:18:48 1 0
bbc
What has the political opinion of someone got to do with fairness... cos the Tories are sooo socially aware... by the way Im self employed
482
20/01/2021 19:22:08 0 0
bbc
It's early yet...wait until they wake up.
44
20/01/2021 12:50:45 41 10
bbc
It seems so unfair. As a director of my own small limited company and working from home for the last 11 years I too have "fallen through the gaps" My business is linked directly to the hospitality industry so there is no money coming in at all and yet because I don't pay commercial rates I can't make a claim. Can't even furlough myself!. It's brutal, really brutal.
No, you haven't ... You are getting back what you've paid in for the last 11 years ... Sounds like that's a big, fat zero ! Removed
174
20/01/2021 13:49:22 1 0
bbc
Interested to hear how you came along the figure of Zero? NI, tax on dividends, corporation tax, workplace pension payments, employers NI need I go on??
45
20/01/2021 12:38:38 7 12
bbc
Being based on the tax paid over the last 3 years was the fairest way to do it .... You didn't pay tax then, why should my tax now go to you !!!
59
20/01/2021 12:54:08 4 5
bbc
I was PAYE before going self employed in Aug 2019 and paid all my taxes. Get your facts right before making evil comments.
42
liz
20/01/2021 12:49:51 113 18
bbc
for those of you who seem to think the self employed pay no taxes this is not correct - we pay income tax, we pay NI, we pay corporation tax we pay tax on dividends over 2500
we get no benefits no holidays and no sick pay
I am sure there are the odd few who have worked the system but for the rest of us we have paid a lot in taxes and not to receive even £10 from the government is disgraceful
60
20/01/2021 12:54:58 67 44
bbc
80% of the salary you paid yourself from your Ltd Company would have been available for furlough payments IF, in the last 3 years, you'd actually paid yourself a salary and the tax/NI that goes with it !!!
81
20/01/2021 13:13:48 12 11
bbc
Best to inform yourself before commenting - this would help you avoid public displays of ignorance
85
20/01/2021 13:19:00 26 5
bbc
Not all self-employed people are registered as limited companies.
177
20/01/2021 13:53:49 18 4
bbc
All easy to say, but you cant pay a fixed salary unless you know youve earned enough to cover all the bills and pay employees and contractors. So it has to be dividends, on which there is a personal tax as well as a tax on the profit the dividend is paid from. Honestly, for the love of God what the hell is difficult to understand here?
179
20/01/2021 13:54:13 12 2
bbc
When you pay yourself dividends the tax that goes with it is broadly equivalent - try an online calculator for £45K paye Vs Ltd co/dividends.
Removed
226
20/01/2021 14:32:13 8 1
bbc
We do pay our taxes get your facts straight, we also couldn't furlough ourselves as if we did we would have had to close our businesses down as it would have been illegal to even send an email to a client, unless you could claim as a freelancer or self employed under the 50/50 rule where you could claim up to £2500 per month and carry on working/earning, thats where this whole thing is wrong.
236
20/01/2021 14:54:46 5 1
bbc
Lets put it this way, if you had two legal ways you could pay tax, would you chose the most expensive one? If you are running a company you want to pay yourself in the most tax efficient way and keep more money in the company. Limited companies still pay tax, it's not a huge saving these days.
308
20/01/2021 16:29:15 3 0
bbc
Some small companies cannot pay a salary because payments are received at irregular intervals and the costs of running the business are also sometimes irregular. It is not a matter of choice, but of necessity. That does not mean that such companies or their directors do not pay their tax and it is offensive to suggest otherwise!
317
20/01/2021 16:42:10 2 3
bbc
Lol, nice gotcha. If they had done what they were supposed to then they would qualify for furlough BUT most of them paid the absolute minimum sallery (to minimise NI) hiding the rest of the money elsewhere. Well said.
553
Bob
21/01/2021 14:26:38 0 0
bbc
Yes many of the Self employed that avoided paying tax an NI are now upset that they get very little as they paid themselves only minimum pay
29
20/01/2021 12:27:51 6 5
bbc
The government should have given a monthly support fee to ALL people with NI numbers.

£750 a month.

This would have been fairer.

And simple way of avoiding fraud.
61
20/01/2021 12:49:38 3 2
bbc
You know that you get a NI number even if you've NEVER worked a day in your life, don't you !!!!
142
20/01/2021 13:40:12 0 0
bbc
Better to do this than spend millions of public money on commission grabbing middle man for PPE.
15
Stu
20/01/2021 12:06:04 14 4
bbc
Are you aware how much tax they pay? For example:
1) Corporation tax
2) VAT
3) NIC
4) Tax on dividends
5) Personal / Self assessment tax
6) Pension contributions with no employer contributions

They also don't get sick pay, holiday pay, redundancy pay so they aren't as wealthy as permanent employees think.
62
20/01/2021 12:49:49 1 2
bbc
Exactly!
56
20/01/2021 12:48:18 36 9
bbc
Hand Car-Wash place with 30 people on their "books" at £8,000 a year, don't have to pay NI or benefits. Pay these people weekly salary out of the undeclared cash they take, oddly, £240,000 a year so ZERO Corporation tax either. £8,000 per employee through the books, no tax anywhere. Come furlough time, Company is going to get 80% of that £240,000 a year. SIMPLE THEFT !
63
20/01/2021 13:11:40 39 7
bbc
Report it to HMRC then. Bitching on here will not stop the practice!
64
20/01/2021 13:12:46 8 5
bbc
Small businesses contractors & freelancers are easy picking for the Govt. They've turned us into the nasty guys to protect their paymasters at large outsources like Infosys, Serco etc.
Now, freelancers are being forced to PAYE, yet STILL aren't entitled to any help. Luckily I've stayed in work through this, but despite having paid £350k in tax over the past 11 years, I'm entitles to no help.
88
20/01/2021 13:21:01 0 0
bbc
That's the problem, you were seen as self sufficient and don't need help.
65
20/01/2021 13:12:55 9 10
bbc
It is simple, when the UK starts to deal with the debts, they should only extra tax those who have received furlough, all of them. But what you do not do, is tax those who have had nothing, so all company Directors of Ltd companies as an example, thats 700,000+, the numerous others left out in the cold to rot. I am paying no tax until you start to help small business UK Government, understand.
108
20/01/2021 13:26:15 1 0
bbc
Good luck with that one
51
20/01/2021 13:00:17 10 9
bbc
To those who are against the self employed, have you never paid in cash to avoid VAT?
Secondly if all self employed look for jobs, those of you who are in jobs will join the unemployment benefits Q!
66
20/01/2021 13:12:56 8 2
bbc
Agree. Not all self-employed people are crooks. I myself will only work if there are contracts in place and invoices to prove payment.
13
Bob
20/01/2021 11:58:49 46 45
bbc
You can do mathematical gymnastics all you like it doesn't avoid the sheer fact that in the main less tax is paid and that is why people do it.

If there was no benefit people would not do so and there wouldn't be a cottage industry in making it happen.
67
20/01/2021 13:14:08 8 7
bbc
Entirely disagree

Having worked for myself for some 7 years, I pay in tax 75% of what I used to earn gross as 40% PAYE employee

So don't tell me HMRC receive less tax as a consequence of me working for myself
125
Bob
20/01/2021 13:32:05 3 2
bbc
Did you actually read what you wrote or just puke it up?

You want to tell the world you pay just 75% of the amount of tax you used to pay and simultaneously tell the world that HMRC doesn't receive less tax from you?
34
20/01/2021 12:41:44 2 16
bbc
Get a proper job and start paying proper taxes, stop avoiding paying for everything and then moan when you get nothing. If you don't like it get a proper job.
68
20/01/2021 13:14:36 4 2
bbc
I went freelance as a sole trader after a redundancy and no jobs around. I worked out roughly what % I paid in-house for tax and student loan and saved that. ...it's been the same as I pay in tax and loan as a sole trader. Except I get no sick pay, no pension etc. etc. I like the perks of freelancing but the idea that ALL freelancers and self employed are out there playing the system is stupid.
48
20/01/2021 12:54:23 27 14
bbc
Rishi Sunak thinks himself in favour because he's dishing out cash to furloughed workers when in fact he's playing God, deciding who get's money and who doesn't.

i.e. Directors may pay less NI but pay corporation tax at 20% on profits, dividend tax at 7.5% (LRT) and 32.5% (HRT) and VAT, probably 5-8% generated on invoices.

We're supposed to all be in this together, but aren't.
69
20/01/2021 13:15:06 2 1
bbc
Couldnt agree more many of us are now redundant and only qualify for Job seekers and nothing else but we still have bills and mortgages to pay, if we rented we get covered from UC but nothing for th emillions who have been in work and paid taxes and have no chance of finding new work in the current market, what about a tax rebate for all of use from last year to help out!
Time for employees to put a sock in it and stop commenting. You clearly havent got a clue. Its the risk takers that will drag us out of the economic mess we are about to descend in to. Not you. You just take your furlough, or do your job and stop the whining about the tiny tax advantage small biz owners get for the enormous risk they take to provide you with a job. We are sick and tired of it. Removed
70
xlr
20/01/2021 13:15:42 11 14
bbc
If the 'risk takers' are that gifted I'm sure they'll survive. It is, after all, why they keep saying they justify large salaries.

But sadly I fear they're already banging on Boris' door demanding the 48 hour week and break times come under more pressure.
48
20/01/2021 12:54:23 27 14
bbc
Rishi Sunak thinks himself in favour because he's dishing out cash to furloughed workers when in fact he's playing God, deciding who get's money and who doesn't.

i.e. Directors may pay less NI but pay corporation tax at 20% on profits, dividend tax at 7.5% (LRT) and 32.5% (HRT) and VAT, probably 5-8% generated on invoices.

We're supposed to all be in this together, but aren't.
71
20/01/2021 13:15:43 5 7
bbc
Why dont you pay yourself a salary? then you save on the corp tax and divi tax.
We all know the reason - corp tax + dividend tax is less than PAYE rates.

Fair enough; but dont expect the same support in hard times when you pay in less in good.
188
20/01/2021 14:06:08 1 1
bbc
Is corp tax + dividend less than PAYE?

PAYE has £12,500 tax-free, before 20% tax up to £50K.

Corp has zero tax-free, before 19% corp tax and then a £2K tax-free before a further 7.5% dividend tax up to £50K.
194
20/01/2021 14:08:09 2 0
bbc
We don't pay in less, that's the whole point. Only NI contributions are less.
We are employed on a contract basis, get no job security or holiday/sick pay and on that basis get some gains, i.e. offset expenses. Taxation as I stated is paid pretty much on a par through corporation tax, dividend tax and VAT generation.
We do pay in, big time!
228
20/01/2021 14:33:11 1 0
bbc
There is a small tax difference between SE and employment. But that has to cover business risk, income risk and funding some kind of a pension, holiday/sick/naternity/paternity pay. But even if one were to accept your argument, support should at the very least be proportional to the amount to the relative tax proportions and not all or nothing. And many of us have also paid PAYE in former jobs.
373
20/01/2021 17:24:19 0 0
bbc
jolouhlin thinks the 'hard times' we should have prepared for includes planning for having our ability to earn a living taken from us and having our freedoms to do anything about it taken from us.... lets see your Pandemic Planning Fund then joloughlin... or are you as I suspect , full of BS ?
50
20/01/2021 12:57:56 15 8
bbc
But this is the UK Gov for you. They have become obsessed with furloughing certain industry and that is it. No help for Limited Company Directors, none at all, these are at least 700,000 small businesses, possibly employing upwards of 5m their alone, but no help for the Directors. Not all Directors are minted you stupid London Government, very short sighted and very, very English in mentality.
72
20/01/2021 13:15:54 9 3
bbc
Sorry DCS but I'm the director of a small company who has always paid themselves through the payroll system. You just pay yourself via dividends as it is more tax efficient for you. You took that choice & no one saw the pandemic coming. HMRC must do what it can for the majority & where it can prove the data so someone will miss out. Good luck
110
20/01/2021 13:26:19 2 3
bbc
A huh, and why are you telling me this?. I pay considerably more tax than you and that I do know. Because of your mentality as a peoples, we are already moving our operations out of the UK. See, this is what Brexit and Paranoia about Covid does, can you see that?, of course not, you are an Englishman. You can pay the extra tax when it comes, if you love their ideas so much. You are very pompous.
193
20/01/2021 14:07:51 1 1
bbc
Dividends allow you to pay yourself once you see how the year is going, it is also considerably simpler than setting up a PAYE system if you are a one-man-band. The tax difference is negligible.
40
20/01/2021 12:46:48 92 17
bbc
One things that's clear from the comments on HYS is that there is a lot of bitter and resentful people who don't like freelancers, self-employed and small company directors.

They might pay tax differently (and often more) than most, create employment and contribute to society in different ways than your traditional employee BUT that does not make them any less deserving for help if needed.
73
20/01/2021 13:16:05 40 14
bbc
True that. I used to be a contractor, until the Tory tax raid on IR35.

It then became more economical for me to be PAYE.

HYS is full of jealous grouches.
165
20/01/2021 13:48:18 8 6
bbc
If you fall foul of IR35, you should have been an employee anyway, paying tax like the rest of us. The Criteria are quite well done, you're unlikely to be caught unwittingly.

Can't cry about it after, you got away lightly before.
210
20/01/2021 14:17:15 5 3
bbc
Tory tax raid! haha. Yep, tax raids are an important part of the socialist arsenal that the Tories are well known for deploying.

IR35 has been abused by contractors for years and they still moan about tax. They got discounted flat rates on VAT, they expense things which subsidisies their cost of living, and then stick substitution clauses into contracts when they are the only employee.
273
20/01/2021 15:37:11 4 0
bbc
IR35 was introduced by Gordon Brown.
322
20/01/2021 16:45:46 3 0
bbc
Thinking someone is getting what they deserve is not exactly jealousy, more justice, then again you were probably not a contractor becuase of your highly developed sense of social responsibility, I suspect you are out of touch.
423
20/01/2021 18:11:09 4 0
bbc
You have hit the nail on the head. IR35 was brought in because so many were avoiding paying NI. It is precisely that avoidance of paying that so many are now unsympathetic to those who are now shafted by the system. Live by the sword, die by the sword.
74
20/01/2021 13:16:41 8 7
bbc
For those haters, who suggest contractors/Ltd company directors are abusing the system, have never paid tax (wrong) & could always 'furlough'. You need to wake up. Often, we're the SOLE employee, if we furlough, how do we actually find work to pay bills and of course tax. In effect, we'd be declaring the business insolvent. How does that help the country?
100
20/01/2021 13:24:22 2 1
bbc
Exactly, so many untruths and myths. Any loopholes were closed over 15 years ago.
46
20/01/2021 12:44:03 8 7
bbc
This is breach of equality and human rights. I went self employed in Aug 2019 after 2 decades of paying taxes as PAYE. Why the gov didn't take my last 3 years of earnings? It's all in black and white on the HMRC website! In these last 10 months I had no work and only managed to claim about £150 a month in UC with a £900 mortgage to pay. How can this be fair?????
75
20/01/2021 13:17:07 3 2
bbc
I'm the same, went self-employed in July 2019 and no help from Sunak aside from UC. Also no work out there for me either, so try explaining that to the Job Centre adviser on the monthly phone call about how I'm doing RE finding work! Sunak's plans have not helped anyone who really needs it.
290
20/01/2021 16:09:15 0 0
bbc
Well, they haven't called me yet, but they want me to apply for ANY job, 7 a week!! They sent messages reminding me about mental health support and free training courses but they didn't reply when I confirmed my availability to retrain.
45
20/01/2021 12:38:38 7 12
bbc
Being based on the tax paid over the last 3 years was the fairest way to do it .... You didn't pay tax then, why should my tax now go to you !!!
76
20/01/2021 13:11:56 0 1
bbc
Did pay tax. Plenty. Look at the “rules” HMRC created in order to exclude people fromSEISS.
77
20/01/2021 13:17:43 48 8
bbc
I loved watching this article this morning with Louise and her sky box having difficulty making ends meet during the pandemic. Try living within your means, cancel non-essential outgoings until things improve. In 2008 I was unemployed and had no income and a big mortgage so I had to do that. Sure it wasn't the best time of my life but I survived and didn't go crying for a free handout.
91
20/01/2021 13:21:59 18 16
bbc
er, ever thought that contract is cancelled and the box is just sat there as a freeview box??
231
20/01/2021 14:39:42 2 0
bbc
Its not a free handout, its paid with the taxes we pay so why shouldn't all tax payers be eligible
319
20/01/2021 16:44:16 3 0
bbc
People who 'think' they are self employed by going from contract to contract should think about maybe putting some money aside. What if they had an accident and could not work ? The true self employed have to manage their money on many different levels as we have no safety net . I think Rishi's payments are very fair giving money to those who have contributed
336
20/01/2021 16:54:35 3 0
bbc
Well said. The fundamental issue is that some people are geting furlough and those who are not dont like it, they feel entitled and hard done by. The BBC just love stories about anyone who feels hard done by so we were bound to get it thrown at us. In all honesty we have probably handed out too much free money during COVID, I havent seen any, maybe I sould QQ too.
78
20/01/2021 13:17:50 2 9
bbc
Taxi drivers who only drive special needs children to and from school, often paid cash in hand as it's such a small amount of cash for three hours a day. Often retired gentleman who just want a little extra cash to supplement a small pension have lost all pay through the destructive closure of schools. Last on the list for Vaccine, even though they have more close interaction with the kids.
213
CJR
20/01/2021 14:20:00 1 0
bbc
And your point is?
42
liz
20/01/2021 12:49:51 113 18
bbc
for those of you who seem to think the self employed pay no taxes this is not correct - we pay income tax, we pay NI, we pay corporation tax we pay tax on dividends over 2500
we get no benefits no holidays and no sick pay
I am sure there are the odd few who have worked the system but for the rest of us we have paid a lot in taxes and not to receive even £10 from the government is disgraceful
79
Bob
20/01/2021 13:17:58 30 10
bbc
No one thinks the self employed pay no tax. You are putting words into people's comments.

What people, rightly, think is that many self employed people pay themselves in tax-efficient ways.

Few would do different.

But if you play the system, you have to take the hit when the system bites back. Can't have it both ways.

A director can still furlough on the small salary they did pay themselves.
151
T F
20/01/2021 13:42:32 8 2
bbc
If you're a director, you have work that has to be done to meet your legal liabilities under the Companies Act. If you're doing work then you cannot be furloughed.

So how does a director balance the legal responsibilities with then saying "I did not work"?
441
20/01/2021 18:36:35 3 0
bbc
100% correct. These people who have paid themselves in the most tax efficient way, have saved a lot compared to us normal paye individuals
What have they done with this extra money. "Cake and eat it" springs to mind. No sympathy whatsoever.
49
20/01/2021 12:55:53 10 9
bbc
I will give you 1 example , window company earns £150,000 a year, £50,000 paid through bank the rest in cash .He pays his 2 window installers , who also claim benefits £250 a week each no tax paid , he only pays tax on the bank payments and says he paid another £10,000 in cash . Typical self employed , just here'd he's now moaning because no one once to pay him in cash anymore .Time HMRC caught .
80
20/01/2021 13:17:58 2 2
bbc
Typical self employed? So all self employed people are crooks and cheating the system. How arrogant.
60
20/01/2021 12:54:58 67 44
bbc
80% of the salary you paid yourself from your Ltd Company would have been available for furlough payments IF, in the last 3 years, you'd actually paid yourself a salary and the tax/NI that goes with it !!!
81
20/01/2021 13:13:48 12 11
bbc
Best to inform yourself before commenting - this would help you avoid public displays of ignorance
54
20/01/2021 13:02:28 23 11
bbc
Exactly, are you a Director of a Ltd company?. I am, I get zero help, my business is on its knees because they keep shutting the economy down. Now it would not be so bad if they stopped shutting the economy, but now, the economy is ruined mate. I refuse to pay a single penny in tax for the next 5 years whilst my business recovers from your purposeful made mess OK London Government, you hear that?
82
20/01/2021 13:13:51 3 5
bbc
Me too, I just spent £17000 on 50 gold sovereigns to remove any corporation tax liability for this year. The accountants will put it through as stock and it wipes out my meagre profit for 2020. I got nothing, so they're getting nothing.
83
20/01/2021 13:18:36 2 3
bbc
The company I work for is in the food industry so we are classified as key workers. However, we have got a company in checking our air con and none of their workers are wearing masks. This is surely not an essential job so why are they working and more importantly where are their masks?
92
20/01/2021 13:22:17 3 0
bbc
Ask them, not us.
Time for employees to put a sock in it and stop commenting. You clearly havent got a clue. Its the risk takers that will drag us out of the economic mess we are about to descend in to. Not you. You just take your furlough, or do your job and stop the whining about the tiny tax advantage small biz owners get for the enormous risk they take to provide you with a job. We are sick and tired of it. Removed
84
20/01/2021 13:18:59 15 6
bbc
Yes let's blame the people who do the work, not the mechanisms of the antiquated tax system.

Bit weird you want to attack them and not Amazon, who did rather well in 2020 thank you very much. Each to their own...
253
20/01/2021 15:20:23 3 0
bbc
Yep Amazon did well, people bought from them and through them... the very same people who complain about them not paying tax... thats the real issue - putting their X where it counts when it counts to get the Tax system they want - Low and dodgy
268
20/01/2021 15:34:18 0 2
bbc
Of course the leading internet based home delivery store did well out of a lockdown scenario. But as long as we get the daily anti Amazon comment.
60
20/01/2021 12:54:58 67 44
bbc
80% of the salary you paid yourself from your Ltd Company would have been available for furlough payments IF, in the last 3 years, you'd actually paid yourself a salary and the tax/NI that goes with it !!!
85
20/01/2021 13:19:00 26 5
bbc
Not all self-employed people are registered as limited companies.
146
20/01/2021 13:40:58 21 2
bbc
The guy literally said he paid corporation tax.
245
20/01/2021 15:13:24 1 4
bbc
No, but they can claim through the Self Employment Income Support Scheme.
86
20/01/2021 13:19:24 3 3
bbc
I love the fact that MPs from PAC are having a pop at HMRC for running a tax system that is over complex due to those very same PAC-sitting MPs not doing their jobs & ensuring that the tax system was fair(ish) for all. I would use the old phrase pot calling kettle but fear that the metro-liberal BBC may see that as someone racist & the pot may be targeted by BLM activists & chucked in the river
87
20/01/2021 13:20:47 4 6
bbc
I went from a £50k salary, to being furloughed in March on 60%. 31st July I was informed I was being made redundant due to the government changing the rules on furlough so that companies, even if they were unable to trade, had to cover pension & national insurance contributions. I've been trying to survive on £409 a month Universal Credit ever since, selling belongings and going deeper in to debt.
105
20/01/2021 13:25:27 8 3
bbc
on £50k salary you should have been able to save for a rainy day. No sympathy
64
20/01/2021 13:12:46 8 5
bbc
Small businesses contractors & freelancers are easy picking for the Govt. They've turned us into the nasty guys to protect their paymasters at large outsources like Infosys, Serco etc.
Now, freelancers are being forced to PAYE, yet STILL aren't entitled to any help. Luckily I've stayed in work through this, but despite having paid £350k in tax over the past 11 years, I'm entitles to no help.
88
20/01/2021 13:21:01 0 0
bbc
That's the problem, you were seen as self sufficient and don't need help.
43
20/01/2021 12:50:40 15 7
bbc
Why should she have to use her savings when others are handed out something for nothing. Rishi is playing God, deciding who gets and who doesn't.
Louise may have foregone a great deal to accrue those savings.
89
Bob
20/01/2021 13:21:18 1 6
bbc
So you're saying that any time anything unexpected happens, pandemic or no pandemic, that you shouldn't dip into your savings and instead the government should pay out?
166
20/01/2021 13:48:21 3 0
bbc
Bob: You certainly have absolutely NO idea at all what this is all about, which has been proved by you stupid comment. To try to educate you what this article is about, it what is fair and what is not.

I know full well you would be the first to complain if you were in the same position as these people, who have received absolutely NOTHING whatsoever due to the government's insanity.
90
20/01/2021 13:16:41 2 5
bbc
Policy is killing people. I am often in tears at the ignorance of our mainstream media. Doctors censored. Fit people being told not to do activities that keep them fit creating....the underlying health conditions. Its just shocking. totally shocking now. every day.
77
20/01/2021 13:17:43 48 8
bbc
I loved watching this article this morning with Louise and her sky box having difficulty making ends meet during the pandemic. Try living within your means, cancel non-essential outgoings until things improve. In 2008 I was unemployed and had no income and a big mortgage so I had to do that. Sure it wasn't the best time of my life but I survived and didn't go crying for a free handout.
91
20/01/2021 13:21:59 18 16
bbc
er, ever thought that contract is cancelled and the box is just sat there as a freeview box??
113
20/01/2021 13:27:48 3 1
bbc
Yes, it's a possibility. I was just being enraged as an old man set in my ways
332
20/01/2021 16:52:34 1 0
bbc
Nope, and nether did anyone else who has any understanding of human nature.
83
20/01/2021 13:18:36 2 3
bbc
The company I work for is in the food industry so we are classified as key workers. However, we have got a company in checking our air con and none of their workers are wearing masks. This is surely not an essential job so why are they working and more importantly where are their masks?
92
20/01/2021 13:22:17 3 0
bbc
Ask them, not us.
93
20/01/2021 13:22:55 2 3
bbc
Finally in the main press. So, why has it taken the BBC and national press TEN MONTHS to report this. Should be ashamed, I have heard over 12 people have already committed suicide because of this!
94
20/01/2021 13:23:09 2 1
bbc
Self employed means taking the risk

It is a choice

I hate those on furlough getting 80% to do up their home , went to coast etc etc

There are issues everywhere
Market should have been left but unemployment benefit increased to an appropriate level
UC always a nonsense
18
20/01/2021 12:07:13 26 8
bbc
And I wonder why if thats a good enough fall back for self employed, why isnt it good enough for employees?
95
20/01/2021 13:23:11 2 2
bbc
Not sure it helps, turning on each other.
267
20/01/2021 15:33:11 1 2
bbc
But turning against each other has been the Gov aim all along.
96
20/01/2021 13:19:15 2 2
bbc
The Tory jobs miracle seems to have been built on foundations of sand.
97
20/01/2021 13:23:47 18 11
bbc
Salary £12k, dividend £100k... such a scam right? WRONG. So thats an income of £112,000. A 100k dividend comes from 100k of profit on which 19% has already been paid in Corp Tax. So thats about £22k in CT. To generate that revenue, 20% VAT would have been paid, thats another £24k. On top of that, personal taxes inc div tax mean an additional £18,900. Total tax revenue contributed - approx £64,900.
143
20/01/2021 13:40:20 12 8
bbc
You must have a terrible accountant mate.
352
20/01/2021 17:04:39 1 1
bbc
And essentially zero NI AND essentillay zero employer NI. If you didnt pay less tax you WOULDNT DO IT so you clearly do pay less tax. Wake up and stop expecteting sympthay, you are playing the system and we dont think its fair, no free money for you.
443
20/01/2021 18:37:51 0 0
bbc
I love that overall, annually, I pay more in tax overall than I would actually earn as someone else's employee, but the other side who've never looked into it are always "BUT YOU DON'T PAY NI". It's like the 50% tax, which is twice as much as I used to earn nett, just isn't good enough. These people seem to want me to actively earn less so I pay NI, and pay less tax overall as a result. No sense!
98
mc
20/01/2021 13:20:52 3 4
bbc
yet wheb the pubs reopen these self employed workers will be down there every day for usual 5 to 6 ponts and tell everybody how much they made during lockdown
104
20/01/2021 13:25:12 3 1
bbc
Ponts?
212
CJR
20/01/2021 14:18:34 0 0
bbc
And you know this how? Or are you in the pub 24/7?
99
20/01/2021 13:24:12 4 3
bbc
It is amazing that so many companies use "interesting" company and tax structures, it make you wonder why.

Going forward the government does need to invest in training even loans for adults to switch careers. In post Brexit Briton we are going to have to switch from highly paid services, that has no deal with the EU, to industries to lower paid manufacture employment were we have a deal.
74
20/01/2021 13:16:41 8 7
bbc
For those haters, who suggest contractors/Ltd company directors are abusing the system, have never paid tax (wrong) & could always 'furlough'. You need to wake up. Often, we're the SOLE employee, if we furlough, how do we actually find work to pay bills and of course tax. In effect, we'd be declaring the business insolvent. How does that help the country?
100
20/01/2021 13:24:22 2 1
bbc
Exactly, so many untruths and myths. Any loopholes were closed over 15 years ago.