Coal mine go-ahead 'undermines climate summit'
19/01/2021 | news | politics | 1,184
The UK's push to secure a deal over fossil fuels is being undercut by a decision to allow a new coal mine, MPs warn.
1
19/01/2021 15:27:56 78 11
bbc
until the steel industry stops using coking coal there will be a demand for it,Why import from overseas when we have a uk supply,it creates jobs and benefits the local economy.Local Govt have approved the scheme so it should go ahead
20/01/2021 10:09:10 0 5
bbc
Earth will be destroyed if we keep making such short term anti-environmental decisions. This is the true reason for Brexit, so our Westminst Gov can do what it likes to make a quick buck without any consideration for the environment or our kids future. Banned bee-killing insecticides now in use, coal mines being okayed - state controlled BBC giving no coverage to the kids hunger striking over this
2
19/01/2021 15:29:00 27 9
bbc
so distant think-tanks and metropolitan intelligentsia showing a complete lack of understanding about employment opportunities in areas like Cumbria.
4
19/01/2021 15:36:09 13 43
bbc
There are plenty of alternatives - this is a political decision and one which flies in the face of all govt plans to reduc carbon - that they should so blithely renege on promises is wholly unsuprising - this is a govt who lie and disseminate fake news as the norm
551
19/01/2021 18:38:16 3 4
bbc
Article is about the hypocracy of telling others not to use fossil fuel. Keep up
3
19/01/2021 15:29:53 198 33
bbc
It's one mine! coal locally sourced not imported in from the other side of the world for the local steel plant so more environmentally friendly. You need coal to make steel and you need steel for wind turbines solar panels. This is a none story.
16
19/01/2021 16:10:35 59 240
bbc
It creates a precedent. It's hypocrisy worthy of any Tory government.
790
19/01/2021 19:43:30 0 4
bbc
What local steel, we import most of our steel as it’s cheaper. I have been doing it for years.
20/01/2021 00:25:00 0 2
bbc
It is one mine in a world of many mines. But maybe the country that led the world into the carbon-burning industrial era can help lead the world away from climate catastrophe? We are hosting the 26th International Climate Change conference later this year (COP26, postponed from 2020). How can we lead into the future when we're seen to be digging our way into the past?
2
19/01/2021 15:29:00 27 9
bbc
so distant think-tanks and metropolitan intelligentsia showing a complete lack of understanding about employment opportunities in areas like Cumbria.
4
19/01/2021 15:36:09 13 43
bbc
There are plenty of alternatives - this is a political decision and one which flies in the face of all govt plans to reduc carbon - that they should so blithely renege on promises is wholly unsuprising - this is a govt who lie and disseminate fake news as the norm
8
19/01/2021 15:48:47 19 3
bbc
Go on then: What's the viable current alternative to coke in steel production...
5
19/01/2021 15:43:02 10 4
bbc
With no specific plan of how to create a new tech/green economy, this outcome seems inevitable.

The Regime needs to stop concentrating on the City, and it's asset inflation economy, and come up with a plan for how sunrise industries can be encouraged into these areas.

But that means diverting investment from the City into R&D (universities) and tech infrastructure (science parks/broadband etc).
6
19/01/2021 15:46:53 4 3
bbc
Very easy to start Powering Past Coal Alliance when you have no coal mines due to the dash to the bottom of a service led no skill low wage economy.
No one is at all surprise of the go ahead for a new coal mine everything is short term.
7
19/01/2021 15:47:51 97 20
bbc
The coal is for coking & is a vital part of steel production for which there is NO viable alternative currently available. This will reduce emissions by shipping coal from abroad.
Those politicians criticising the decision are either doing so to score political points &/or through a failure to check facts or sheer ignorance.
The same applies to all the other detractors, including Thunberg.
Thunberg is a puppet. Her backers should focus her energies on things like brown coal-fired power stations, which make up 9 out of 10 of the most polluting businesses in Europe - 7 in Germany and 3 in Canada.

Or the massive coal-fired power station building plans in Asia and Africa.
Removed
255
19/01/2021 17:31:46 5 5
bbc
Greta Thinberg is the ventriloquist's dummy for extremist climate scaremongers, who in truth drive to their demonstrations in diesels.
4
19/01/2021 15:36:09 13 43
bbc
There are plenty of alternatives - this is a political decision and one which flies in the face of all govt plans to reduc carbon - that they should so blithely renege on promises is wholly unsuprising - this is a govt who lie and disseminate fake news as the norm
8
19/01/2021 15:48:47 19 3
bbc
Go on then: What's the viable current alternative to coke in steel production...
9
19/01/2021 15:53:48 107 13
bbc
The coal produced from this mine is coking coal used in the making of steel. Planning permission was refused for other lower quality coal, that would be used in power stations etc. If the coking coal is not mined, how is the steel to build environmental friendly transport etc. to be made?
12
19/01/2021 16:00:36 94 24
bbc
The green lobby cannot answer that. They can only tell you what's bad.
188
19/01/2021 17:20:32 2 6
bbc
...and then they say that they cannot make the mine work financially just selling coking coal so they mine the other stuff. Invest in high quality R&D jobs for alternative heat sources not coal mines
538
19/01/2021 18:34:00 2 3
bbc
With your 1950’s thinking you’ll never work it out.
794
19/01/2021 19:44:22 1 0
bbc
By the use of other methods e.g. hydrogen reduced steel production which is proven to work , it does cost more , but then no one is questioning making cars more expensive by battery tech to reduce carbon , so its not an issue for the steel is it ?
10
19/01/2021 15:56:55 26 16
bbc
'The Labour peer Baroness Worthington told BBC News: "This decision is real laziness of thinking from the government. Just think of signal it sends to all those countries who want to cling on to coal'

Bit rich when you consider that if Labour had got its way coalmining would still be one of our national industries.
21
19/01/2021 16:16:02 9 6
bbc
When the facts change, I change my mind - what do you do?
11
19/01/2021 15:59:51 90 15
bbc
It's a bit rich being preached to by Powershift Africa. Africa is a huge exporter of coal, and across Africa they are planning to build thousands of coal-fired power stations over the next decade.

We have a choice of buying in coking coal, with a bigger carbon footprint, or mining our own. There is currently no environmentally friendly alternative to coking coal.
62
19/01/2021 16:57:31 17 7
bbc
Hmm yeah, those very large coal stations in South Africa, total 40 GWh capacity. Just to put this into context the large twin PWRs of Sizewell C will produce 3.2 GWh

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_South_Africa#Coal_fired
9
19/01/2021 15:53:48 107 13
bbc
The coal produced from this mine is coking coal used in the making of steel. Planning permission was refused for other lower quality coal, that would be used in power stations etc. If the coking coal is not mined, how is the steel to build environmental friendly transport etc. to be made?
12
19/01/2021 16:00:36 94 24
bbc
The green lobby cannot answer that. They can only tell you what's bad.
267
19/01/2021 17:33:56 14 2
bbc
I think the 'green lobby' would say that, so long as governments allow steel manufacturers to use coking coal, they will have no incentives to do the R and D to make alternatives economically viable.

As an architect, I would also add that we should be promoting alternatives to steel in construction. Much of the time steel and concrete are used without any real thought for alternatives.
TV
20/01/2021 09:04:52 0 2
bbc
You don't need coal to make steel. There are alternative methods to power up the furnaces in steel production like the Electric Arc Furnace. We need investment in new technologies like this not old polluting ones.
7
19/01/2021 15:47:51 97 20
bbc
The coal is for coking & is a vital part of steel production for which there is NO viable alternative currently available. This will reduce emissions by shipping coal from abroad.
Those politicians criticising the decision are either doing so to score political points &/or through a failure to check facts or sheer ignorance.
The same applies to all the other detractors, including Thunberg.
Thunberg is a puppet. Her backers should focus her energies on things like brown coal-fired power stations, which make up 9 out of 10 of the most polluting businesses in Europe - 7 in Germany and 3 in Canada.

Or the massive coal-fired power station building plans in Asia and Africa.
Removed
31
19/01/2021 16:28:17 5 8
bbc
go on then. tell is who are "her backers"...?
58
19/01/2021 16:55:50 7 2
bbc
"10 of the most polluting businesses in Europe - 7 in Germany and 3 in Canada."

Canada is in Europe????
185
19/01/2021 17:19:50 2 5
bbc
Young lady Thunberg seems an awful lot cleverer than you .... perhaps you should rename as Mr Black Polluted Sky?
14
19/01/2021 16:05:01 14 7
bbc
The topsy turvy world of 2021 the Tories wanting to reopen coal mines and support local Steel industry and a Labour Baroness opposing the move. What does Starmer think? reckon he has a heck of a job on getting any hearing from the Red Wall with party member like Baroness Williamson, maybe he thinks same as her wouldn't surprise me with the new left.
265
19/01/2021 17:33:26 1 0
bbc
I bet the irony is not lost on Arthur Scargill.
15
19/01/2021 16:06:06 483 91
bbc
No coal=no steel. It's as simple as that. However, steel would still be made here, but with coal imported from Russia or China, which would be even more environmentally unfriendly. And then there's the heritage steam railway business which has an annual turnover of hundreds of millions of pounds. Is that going to have to stop too?

We need some brave forward thinking here.
19
19/01/2021 16:14:35 139 182
bbc
I reckon one "heritage" coal mine open for a part of the year only would hew enough coal for all the steam trains.... no need for a new open cast mine
56
19/01/2021 16:54:55 24 58
bbc
"brave forward thinking" ...if a 40 year old VW Beetle can run on electricity, why can't a steam train? Electricity can be used to make steam, you know.
108
19/01/2021 17:07:29 20 40
bbc
This is the Tories idea of levelling up the north, open the pits they closed in the 80’s. It will stop the new found Tory voters getting itchy feet.
130
19/01/2021 17:11:38 13 24
bbc
What happens when we run out of coal then = no steel? I’m sure they will come up with something else if coal wasn’t there anymore.
131
19/01/2021 17:11:39 12 4
bbc
But we are happy to sell the steel companies off?
135
19/01/2021 17:12:37 15 1
bbc
China is a net importer of Coal and only exports locally (North Korea Burma ect) Mainly for political influence. It also varies where it buys from for Political influence. Ask the Aussie`s not currently in favor.
150
19/01/2021 17:15:18 9 6
bbc
No coal =
no chemicals
no plastics,
no medicines
etc
who said all the coal is for burning
158
19/01/2021 17:16:32 23 4
bbc
Our coal is amongst the lowest sulphur content, it's almost too good to burn. And yes, it's needed for steel, it's a no brainer to dig it local rather than bringing in sulphur laden coal from other countries.
We also get a lot more than just heat out of coal, even making coke provides chemicals for agriculture.
Unfortunately the green agenda doesn't see past "climate change".
160
19/01/2021 17:17:12 5 1
bbc
Well for now anyway. Of course you can reduce iron oxide with hydrogen produced via electrolysis, once there's enough low cost renewable/nuclear electricity to make it worthwhile. The remaining miniscule fraction of carbon required to actually convert iron to steel could probably come from biomass,... since it would typically be ~1% of the carbon required for the actual reduction process.
213
19/01/2021 17:23:58 4 1
bbc
Not be long before all steel is from China or US, Tata are set to close what’s left of a great empire of high quality steel
218
19/01/2021 17:23:07 5 3
bbc
In steel (or rather iron) production, coke is used as a chemical reducing agent, to turn iron oxide into pure iron. This can also be achieved with hydrogen gas, which can be produced through hydrolysis of water using electricity produced from renewable sources. New tech can make coke obsolete.
331
19/01/2021 17:48:17 11 4
bbc
Utter Rubbish.
Already 30% of global steel production does not use coal.
Green steel is made by using hydrogen, rather than coal, to strip the oxygen out of iron ore. The byproduct is water rather than carbon dioxide
In the meantime there are large industrial plants operating today that use natural gas to produce direct-reduced iron followed by an electric arc furnace to turn that iron into steel.
352
19/01/2021 17:51:18 1 0
bbc
We won't have a steel industry soon. What's left is a shadow of what there used to be. Thank god for heritage - it's all there is.
501
19/01/2021 18:24:59 0 0
bbc
How lately have you checked the prices of the steel mate? BTW there are
open hearth furnaces that use the electricity in order to obtain steel from iron ore
531
19/01/2021 18:30:57 1 0
bbc
China gets a lot of its coal from Australia !
575
19/01/2021 18:42:57 1 3
bbc
But it's clearly not as simple as that. It just sounds like you want it to be.

We can import coking coal until an alternative is found, at speed hopefully, then turn the tap off instantly. That's likely to less carbon emitting than developing a new mine.

It's about leadership (which we're pretending to be), innovation (which we should be) and example setting.

Not simple at all.
580
19/01/2021 18:44:42 2 1
bbc
Its not as simple as that but you'd know that if you were a brave forward thinker. Go find out how New Zealand produce steel...true its not a panacea or miracle answer but it clearly shows your "no coal=no steel" is not as simple as that.
There is also work going on using other methods of steel production that dont involve coal - biocarbon and electrolysis to start.
741
19/01/2021 19:29:44 0 0
bbc
Take a look at the YouTube channel ‘Just Have a Think’ - Fossil Free Steel
748
19/01/2021 19:32:07 0 0
bbc
You're missing the point, this is not about coal it is deep excavation for nuclear waste.
755
19/01/2021 19:34:07 1 0
bbc
I was going to say exactly the same thing myself, so I give EL34 my full support. (isn't EL34 a valve??)
807
19/01/2021 19:46:54 0 1
bbc
Tories = Forward Thinking.
Think you may lose that one mate
Removed
911
TV
19/01/2021 20:22:56 0 2
bbc
A quick Google search shows there's alternative ways of heating a furnance without the use of coal. We should be investing in Electric Arc Furnace (EAF) instead. Absolutely no need for coal to make steel
3
19/01/2021 15:29:53 198 33
bbc
It's one mine! coal locally sourced not imported in from the other side of the world for the local steel plant so more environmentally friendly. You need coal to make steel and you need steel for wind turbines solar panels. This is a none story.
16
19/01/2021 16:10:35 59 240
bbc
It creates a precedent. It's hypocrisy worthy of any Tory government.
30
19/01/2021 16:26:27 29 3
bbc
Did you not read the comment you replied to? The coal is needed to stop importing more and more coal.
48
19/01/2021 16:52:34 36 4
bbc
Yes, we know you hate the Tories

Can't you make a comment without showing your latent Conservative hate? Just address the topic being discussed
145
19/01/2021 17:14:07 26 3
bbc
You just can't put your irrational hatred of the Conservatives to one side can you?
153
19/01/2021 17:16:05 20 1
bbc
I've got no time for this incompetent Tory government either, but this is one venture I support. For a start it's more environmentally friendly than importing coal, it's creating jobs boosting the local economy, providing vital resources for steel making and steam railways, which in turn provide tourism, benefiting the hospitality industry, both of which have been hit by the pandemic.
437
19/01/2021 18:05:21 11 0
bbc
It does not create a precedent. The precedent of closing down our coal industry was the 'precedent' too far. Imagine if UK had invested in cleaner more environmentally friendly 'coal mines' back in the day of Thatcher. UK could today be leading the way in innovative ways of production. But alas our 'short shortsightedness' is as much evident today as it was back then.
442
19/01/2021 18:07:37 14 2
bbc
What a sad world you live in.
834
19/01/2021 19:55:57 3 0
bbc
Net Zero doesn't mean we should ban all carbon intensive activities immediately. Sometimes there are strategic reasons to maintain them, sometimes they should be phased out carefully to assure the future of a domestic supply chain (jobs). Can the coking plant be associated with a carbon capture scheme - if so it could have zero impact!

And sometimes you need steel to build wind turbines......
875
19/01/2021 20:08:43 2 0
bbc
The Strawcat talking utter rubbish once again!!
17
19/01/2021 16:11:35 9 25
bbc
You don't have to open a coal mine in order to create local jobs. Tory hypocrisy is staggering but predictable.
28
19/01/2021 16:24:24 12 5
bbc
Ok, we'll have to import it then to make wind generators. 220 tonnes of coking coal per generator
Oh, Jenrick's involved ... brown paper envelopes ... 'donations' to the tory party ... say no more! Removed
15
19/01/2021 16:06:06 483 91
bbc
No coal=no steel. It's as simple as that. However, steel would still be made here, but with coal imported from Russia or China, which would be even more environmentally unfriendly. And then there's the heritage steam railway business which has an annual turnover of hundreds of millions of pounds. Is that going to have to stop too?

We need some brave forward thinking here.
19
19/01/2021 16:14:35 139 182
bbc
I reckon one "heritage" coal mine open for a part of the year only would hew enough coal for all the steam trains.... no need for a new open cast mine
54
19/01/2021 16:54:22 11 58
bbc
Or import it from somewhere else.

In any case how many "heritage railways" are going to survive coronamania?
99
19/01/2021 17:06:26 38 7
bbc
if you think that then you are clueless. I work in the forest of dean coal mines and heritage coal mines don't mine coal, they are not authorised to. we, as 8 working coal mines in the forest, could not supply enough for the heritage railways.
101
19/01/2021 17:06:44 40 8
bbc
It isn't opencast, it's to be mined from under the sea using deep mining techniques. Nice try at a FUD.
103
19/01/2021 17:06:50 22 4
bbc
oh and it's not an open cast.......
722
19/01/2021 19:25:54 3 0
bbc
Obviously, you didn't read the comment you replied to. The permission for this mine is a strategic decision to enable us to keep making steel which is vital in so many other industries such as automotive and construction. No mine =no steel = loss of 1,000,000 jobs.
893
19/01/2021 20:16:31 2 0
bbc
Its not a open cast mine. But deep underground stretching out under the sea.
20
19/01/2021 16:15:16 17 11
bbc
Typical Labour want to stop steam on heritage rail lines. Anything to destroy our history.
83
19/01/2021 17:03:06 0 1
bbc
So you're saying Labour's opposition to this is because of their desire to... "destroy our history" by denying coal to heritage steam trains?

Er... O-kaaaaaaaaaay
132
19/01/2021 17:11:57 0 0
bbc
Cumbria, we gave the planning permission, is a joint Labour controlled council.
10
19/01/2021 15:56:55 26 16
bbc
'The Labour peer Baroness Worthington told BBC News: "This decision is real laziness of thinking from the government. Just think of signal it sends to all those countries who want to cling on to coal'

Bit rich when you consider that if Labour had got its way coalmining would still be one of our national industries.
21
19/01/2021 16:16:02 9 6
bbc
When the facts change, I change my mind - what do you do?
385
19/01/2021 17:56:45 0 0
bbc
He keeps tugging his forelock like the good tory serf he is
22
19/01/2021 16:16:52 181 33
bbc
How are we going to make "stuff". To build bridges, buildings, you need STEEL. To make steel, you need COAL, and lots of COAL. We either import everything, and go bankrupt, or we BUILD STUFF and make Britain a global leader. You need a LOT of coal to make a Wind Turbine for example.,.. COAL is not going away anytime soon, this will HELP our climate goals!
50
19/01/2021 16:52:47 27 107
bbc
What if steel, wind turbines etc. can be purchased cheaper abroad than we can produce them here? (Which they can of course.)
66
19/01/2021 16:58:42 4 21
bbc
Don't be daft. Britain doesn't build anything.

Except resentment.... It's very good at resentment.
194
19/01/2021 17:21:34 1 18
bbc
Why did the tories sell off all the industry to their mates then?
781
19/01/2021 19:41:34 0 5
bbc
You don;t actually, you need loads of something that reduces the iron oxide. Hydrogen is perfectly capable of doing that , and its proven. Now it costs a lot more currently , and likely will work best with hydropower to generate the hydrogen and heat the furnace , but it possible , it is just cheaper to do it with coal.
Do you want carbon neutral steel or just cheap steel while the planet burns?
795
19/01/2021 19:44:35 0 0
bbc
it might be cheap on the £ but not cheap for the environment, it will cost more to import or are you only intersted in the bottom line £££££££££££££££££
801
19/01/2021 19:45:17 1 0
bbc
apologies replied to wrong comment yours is spot on
23
19/01/2021 16:18:35 268 38
bbc
We need coal for industrial process like steel making. It is also vital to heritage attractions like steam railways which make a significant financial contribution to the tourist industry. We have suitable grade coal in GB for such needs. Why import it from abroad at additional cost to the environment and bottom line? Imported coal is often unsuitable quality for the above specialised needs.
26
19/01/2021 16:23:02 235 28
bbc
Absolutely agree. The government has made wind farms a priority. It takes 220 tonnes of coking coal to make a wind generator. If we don't mine the (right type of) coal ourselves we have to import it imposing an even bigger carbon footprint.
223
19/01/2021 17:25:57 15 0
bbc
We should remember that the type of coal mine in this country is the high quality black coal and not the less pure and highly polluting brown stuff that is found elsewhere.
231
19/01/2021 17:27:28 2 24
bbc
Steam trains are worthless and the pennies they bring in wouldn’t find the OAP TRIPLE LOCK for more than a day
246
19/01/2021 17:29:47 14 1
bbc
I quite agree, but I was told by a driver on a heritage railway that Welsh steam coal has been substituted with Polish coal. We should mine our own, and this is a start.
24
19/01/2021 16:21:31 387 59
bbc
have the people complaining about this read anything about the purpose of the mine? its not for power, its coking coal for steel which would be imported if not mined here. Are the going to ban Steel? I think not. Usual virtual signally over sensible action. We need steel, therefore we need coking coal until we swop global steel production to coal free solutions, which will take time.
74
19/01/2021 17:00:18 116 23
bbc
Spot on!
157
19/01/2021 17:16:30 8 6
bbc
Who’s virtue signalling? All comments here seem to be pro. Such a lazy phrase which losses all meaning when people like you use it interchangeably to do scribe anyone that doesn’t agree with you.

Ask yourself why the government have allowed mills to close or be sold off.

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/18648463.ssi-150m-demolish-redcar-steelworks-creating-300-jobs/
429
19/01/2021 18:03:45 10 2
bbc
But coke is no longer necessary for producing steel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corex_Process
464
19/01/2021 18:15:17 9 3
bbc
"...the Climate Change Committee ... has said all coal - including coking coal - should be phased out by 2035" - so someone thinks there's an alternative and that's why this decision is hypocritical and undermines UK leadership. And justification on the grounds of deferring to local decision-making is so cowardly - pathetic!
506
19/01/2021 18:26:42 10 10
bbc
Steel in iron works is obtained in much modern ways
by open hearth furnace which is using the electricity - you British are always behind the world
559
19/01/2021 18:40:50 12 5
bbc
I'd also prefer us to have the coal here rather than importing from China who have a poor reputation in terms of health & safety in their mines. By importing from there we are condoning their practices.

Of course there is environmentalist comments from those who haven't looked at the bigger picture & just looking for the next protest, rather than dialogue of gradually moving away from coking coal
709
19/01/2021 19:21:08 6 5
bbc
As there is no UK steel industry, where is the market!
780
PT
19/01/2021 19:41:20 4 4
bbc
Steel furnaces can be electric. Electric arc furnaces where used back in the '70. No need for coal.
819
19/01/2021 19:46:00 2 0
bbc
Steel can be powered by green hydrogen... check it out for yourself. https://youtu.be/ywHJt88H5YQ
19/01/2021 23:25:58 1 0
bbc
We NEED to reduce our carbon emissions. We'd LIKE steel. Maybe we can have both? Direct Reduced Iron (DRI) plants (using Hydrogen instead of coke) are being built right now. Eg: Hybrit in Sweden, Mitsubishi Heavy & Voestalpine in Austria, and Arcelor Mittal in Germany. It's about direction of travel: A new mine is us going the wrong way
25
19/01/2021 16:22:49 82 24
bbc
Euronews today - Poland is worried about Biden causing them for having to go 'green' due to having 75% of electricity generated from coal and having 33 of the top 50 polluted cities in the EU. How could this still be the case in the lovely clean EU - Angela's origin East Germany much the same. Come on UK get on with some production - and save the shipping miles
59
19/01/2021 16:56:38 19 6
bbc
I read recently Poland will build Windfarms in the Baltic sea It takes time to transform your energy network They have only been in the EU for15 years. Germany started to phasing out Nuclear after Fukushima. So no choice to go to coal and Gas. However I do admire there local grid approach with local green production. The NIMBY issue of onshore wind go`s, don`t mind it so much if powers you cheaply
So you are comoaring the UK to Poland, the worst nation in the whole of the EU for coal burning and pollution?

Hmmmm so as a Brexiter you deem it acceotable to compare the UK with the very worst in order to make our nation seem better?

Personally as a remainer i would rather compare us to the worlds best and try to ensure we compete with them in every possible way
469
19/01/2021 18:16:44 6 1
bbc
Who said the ‘EU was lovely and clean’? Just like in the UK, there will be polluted cities and clean areas. Honestly, some of the guff that is talked from the little Englanders is beyond belief.
23
19/01/2021 16:18:35 268 38
bbc
We need coal for industrial process like steel making. It is also vital to heritage attractions like steam railways which make a significant financial contribution to the tourist industry. We have suitable grade coal in GB for such needs. Why import it from abroad at additional cost to the environment and bottom line? Imported coal is often unsuitable quality for the above specialised needs.
26
19/01/2021 16:23:02 235 28
bbc
Absolutely agree. The government has made wind farms a priority. It takes 220 tonnes of coking coal to make a wind generator. If we don't mine the (right type of) coal ourselves we have to import it imposing an even bigger carbon footprint.
260
19/01/2021 17:32:12 5 6
bbc
I am pretty certain it doesn't take anything like that. Not for the ones we make. All our cast components are aluminium and exclusively use power from Hydro Electric.
Use a fair amount of diesel however shipping them in from Canada where we moved to in order to better celebrate Brexit. :)
27
19/01/2021 16:23:33 293 56
bbc
Until we stop using steel - or it can be made using something other than coal - coal mines are indispensable. So why the outrage?

I'm all for using renewables where we can, but that's not what we're talking about. Nothing to see here. Move on.
39
19/01/2021 16:49:34 164 28
bbc
EEEEr wind turbines are made of..... steel
196
19/01/2021 17:21:51 17 18
bbc
It can be made using something other than coal. Hydrogen. By product? Water. But that would require some actual investment in the steel industry and REAL levelling up / new green economy that this government keep banging on about. Easier to just let this be approved though. Straight from the Trump playbook.
358
19/01/2021 17:52:23 5 7
bbc
Already 30% of global steel production does not use coal.
Green steel is made by using hydrogen, rather than coal, to strip the oxygen out of iron ore. The byproduct is water rather than carbon dioxide
In the meantime there are large industrial plants operating today that use natural gas to produce iron followed by an electric arc furnace to turn that iron into steel.
521
19/01/2021 18:31:00 3 0
bbc
"Until we stop using steel ..."

===

Steel is the ultimate high strength affordable recyclable material.

I remember forty odd years ago the engineering press heralding the brave new world of engineering grade plastics. Very little of which has actually been recycled. So that went well, didn't it?

There is more to being green than energy use.
731
19/01/2021 19:28:10 0 0
bbc
Have a look at the YouTube channel ‘Just Have a Think’. - Fossil Free Steel
20/01/2021 14:50:54 0 0
bbc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywHJt88H5YQ coal free steel production can be done.
17
19/01/2021 16:11:35 9 25
bbc
You don't have to open a coal mine in order to create local jobs. Tory hypocrisy is staggering but predictable.
28
19/01/2021 16:24:24 12 5
bbc
Ok, we'll have to import it then to make wind generators. 220 tonnes of coking coal per generator
29
19/01/2021 16:25:41 5 31
bbc
We don't need coke: Stop the Steel!
35
19/01/2021 16:38:45 14 3
bbc
buy it in bottles instead
63
19/01/2021 16:53:55 0 1
bbc
No steel means no civilisation, think of all the things you see everyday that are are made from steel. Think of the batteries in your smart phone or the environmental friendly car you drive, all the these require rare earth minerals and metals, that need to be mined, using mining machinery made from steel!
16
19/01/2021 16:10:35 59 240
bbc
It creates a precedent. It's hypocrisy worthy of any Tory government.
30
19/01/2021 16:26:27 29 3
bbc
Did you not read the comment you replied to? The coal is needed to stop importing more and more coal.
Thunberg is a puppet. Her backers should focus her energies on things like brown coal-fired power stations, which make up 9 out of 10 of the most polluting businesses in Europe - 7 in Germany and 3 in Canada.

Or the massive coal-fired power station building plans in Asia and Africa.
Removed
31
19/01/2021 16:28:17 5 8
bbc
go on then. tell is who are "her backers"...?
215
19/01/2021 17:24:13 2 3
bbc
Her parents and those that are glad that she has a voice. Odd that someone should call her a puppet. Shows that they have no idea of self determination. She started out on her own and the level of support has grown.
It would be good to know where the majority of coal used for steel production across the world is coming from today.
32
19/01/2021 16:30:33 148 43
bbc
Worried about one Coal mine in the UK? Come on! Think about the dozens China and India are continuing to build! The amount of Carbon the UK saves doesn't even on the worldwide scale.
113
19/01/2021 17:08:03 74 33
bbc
Poor argument. Everybody can only be responsible for their own carbon emissions.

The proper argument is how we get the steel we need for the least carbon, wherever it's produced.
169
19/01/2021 17:18:10 3 4
bbc
My neighbour is poorer than me, why shouldn’t I take on more debt? See why your argument is stupid
259
19/01/2021 17:32:09 5 4
bbc
excuses can be made for anything as one off's or its only a little one. The point is really that promises of carbon neutral by 2050 are meaningless unless we start now, any fool can say ok we will do that but reality means there is no come back especially as the gov in question will probably not be in power for all that time. Someone else's problem
714
Rob
19/01/2021 19:21:52 2 0
bbc
Thats not the point. Jest because someone else does it doesn't mean we have too.
730
19/01/2021 19:27:38 3 0
bbc
Classic response to blame China. We are responsible for their emissions because it's making stuff that we import.

We can't be self righteous about our own supply when we have outsourced much of the heavy energy usage production to the 3rd world.
33
19/01/2021 16:31:01 190 21
bbc
The arguments here are the need for the mine for steel production . If this is the only way to produce steel , then all the arguments against this are going to fall on deaf ears . Steel is needed , whether the mine is here or in another country .
44
19/01/2021 16:52:15 40 173
bbc
There are other ways of making steel. And steel itself usually isn't the best material for the job - it has lots of issues like being heavy and corroding easily.
This isn't the only way, clown.

The Tories have destroyed UK steel and have destroyed UK mining.

They are the ones who are running the upcoming global Green conference.

And they are the ones waving this through.

Any old gibberish from any old posh mediocrity will do for you, won't it Grandad?

You lot don't care just so long as you can blame all your lifes failures on Pakistan
Removed
127
19/01/2021 17:10:49 5 30
bbc
Coal was only needed in high quality steel produced from old open hearth furnaces which were scrapped 60 years ago,this country has had Arc Furnaces for 80 years requiring no coal.
20/01/2021 14:51:52 0 0
bbc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywHJt88H5YQ Steel can be made without coal.
34
stu
19/01/2021 16:31:03 81 28
bbc
I remember when the north was all like 'those bloomin tories shutting the mines' and now they open one and now they're all like 'those blooming tories opening up mines'
make your mind up. do you want jobs or not
53
19/01/2021 16:54:03 23 30
bbc
At the time the issue was that coal could be imported more cheaply from Poland. The environmental issues weren't to the fore at that point.

So a poor deflection as ever.
69
19/01/2021 16:59:21 15 6
bbc
Pedantic point but Labour instigated closure of the mines as a policy under the Callahan government which closed more coal mines than the subsequent Thatcher government.

Labour like to keep quiet about that fact...
85
19/01/2021 17:03:21 2 8
bbc
Not jobs that destroy the planet.
86
19/01/2021 17:03:32 2 3
bbc
It wasn't that the mines shut - miners were never compensated properly for such dangerous, health destroying work nobody in their right mind would miss. It was arbitrary & callous way it was done for political motives.

...and the Council that gave permission is a Labour Libdem coal-ition. SWIDT ;-)
619
19/01/2021 18:53:04 2 1
bbc
It's not people in the North complaining.
29
19/01/2021 16:25:41 5 31
bbc
We don't need coke: Stop the Steel!
35
19/01/2021 16:38:45 14 3
bbc
buy it in bottles instead
36
19/01/2021 16:40:08 17 18
bbc
There is sense and reason in all things but in this case the environmentalists have blown it. For campaigners climate change as now become a religion and a fundamentalist one at that and we all know where fundamentalism ends up. So the mine owners and the govt should make sure the mine workers are well protected against terrorist attacks not only at the mine but more importantly at their homes
80
19/01/2021 17:02:49 0 1
bbc
Any evidence of coal miners being attacked in this country. Yawn, I didn't think so.
168
19/01/2021 17:18:02 0 0
bbc
Your concern for the safety of those engaged in coal mining against attacks at their homes (as you fear) is noteworthy of record.
37
19/01/2021 16:45:06 9 26
bbc
Well at last someone with sense, the warmist religion has had its day,the lies should be apparent by now.
51
19/01/2021 16:53:30 10 5
bbc
Having witnessed the warmest 10 years on record!?? I just assume that any change might impact on your cushy lifestyle and we couldn't have that now. If you have kids I suspect they'd appreciate you leaving them a world as opposed to your house.
55
19/01/2021 16:54:27 3 4
bbc
If you have grandchildren, mate, you had better be prepared to look them in the eye in years to come, and tell them your opinions. Good luck with that!!!
67
19/01/2021 16:59:04 3 3
bbc
Speaks a man who never reads a thermometer and never goes outside. You clapped out Angry Grandads are smashing the planet up on your way out.
38
19/01/2021 16:48:08 52 10
bbc
We accept coal mining is a necessary evil because it's required for steel. So, to follow the logic, unless we stop needing steel we'll always need coal, which isn't an infinite resource. So when we run out of coal, we run out of steel.

Blimey, in that perspective it all seems rather bleak.
77
19/01/2021 17:01:21 10 59
bbc
Do we still make steel? And I wonder how much of this production will be used to make steel. The last thing we need in yet more coal.
27
19/01/2021 16:23:33 293 56
bbc
Until we stop using steel - or it can be made using something other than coal - coal mines are indispensable. So why the outrage?

I'm all for using renewables where we can, but that's not what we're talking about. Nothing to see here. Move on.
39
19/01/2021 16:49:34 164 28
bbc
EEEEr wind turbines are made of..... steel
163
19/01/2021 17:17:30 10 0
bbc
And busses and trains and trams.........
266
19/01/2021 17:33:42 9 9
bbc
Errrrrr you can use hydrogen or renewables to make steel!
296
tux
19/01/2021 17:40:00 2 7
bbc
Some tall wind turbines use wood instead of steel. Wood is surprisingly strong.
380
19/01/2021 17:55:16 9 2
bbc
EEEEr coking coal is needed to make steel and surely far better we make the product rather than encourage the importing of a cheaper dirtier product.
715
19/01/2021 19:22:12 0 0
bbc
Wind turbines made of steel would be too heavy to install.
887
19/01/2021 20:13:42 0 0
bbc
Actually the blades and nacelles are Glass Fibre.
40
19/01/2021 16:49:43 96 44
bbc
Everything in moderation, the problem with climate change activists is they won’t be happy unless we all live in caves and are dressed only in leaves.
What a deeply idiotic comment.
41
19/01/2021 16:50:31 17 9
bbc
Poor Greta not gonna be happy!
42
19/01/2021 16:50:56 11 25
bbc
Another instance of the Tory veneer of pretending to care about the environment to win middle class votes being scratched away.

Actions speak much lounder than empty words - and this Johnson government is expert at waffling out empty words.
43
19/01/2021 16:51:09 104 22
bbc
Coal is so useful it is astonishing we want to burn it. Would you object if the coal is extracted to make medicine or other products? I'm okay with the decision. I think of Coke manufacturing as a chemical process. The adverse climate effects of which are offset elsewhere. And here in the North we really need these jobs. So does South Wales and elsewhere that manufacture high quality steel.
227
19/01/2021 17:26:11 45 1
bbc
In my experience, if you don't allow a certain amount of mining, people will just take it underground.
268
19/01/2021 17:34:00 4 4
bbc
South Wales does not and never has produced top quality steel ! It's always produced lower grade stuff for canning etc. still needed but not high grade engineering quality!!
270
19/01/2021 17:34:23 3 0
bbc
then perhaps there should be more concentration on the magic of carbon capture?
275
19/01/2021 17:35:43 3 0
bbc
Can you make coke from coal without producing CO2? Can you make steel from coke without making CO2? No and no. Also it's not just coal, oil and gas are too valuable as chemical feedstock to burn too. We have to find another way.
33
19/01/2021 16:31:01 190 21
bbc
The arguments here are the need for the mine for steel production . If this is the only way to produce steel , then all the arguments against this are going to fall on deaf ears . Steel is needed , whether the mine is here or in another country .
44
19/01/2021 16:52:15 40 173
bbc
There are other ways of making steel. And steel itself usually isn't the best material for the job - it has lots of issues like being heavy and corroding easily.
129
19/01/2021 17:11:35 25 6
bbc
Utter nonsense
Aren't you a stupid PRAT! You obviously no nothing about steel or any other metal! What are you intending to replace it with? Removed
226
19/01/2021 17:26:11 7 1
bbc
It’s also made in the millions of tons globally. Even if there are other methods or materials it will take time.
236
19/01/2021 17:28:18 3 1
bbc
Other ways of making steel - please explain how this is done. Other materials that are as reasonable in cost and that are less polluting AND suitable for the purpose, list them.....
257
19/01/2021 17:32:03 5 1
bbc
I look forward to seeing your design for a skyscraper using (recycled) cardboard instead of steel
317
19/01/2021 17:44:43 5 0
bbc
Dear lord, is this comment a joke.
393
19/01/2021 17:58:03 5 1
bbc
what other ways of making steel Einstein?
408
19/01/2021 18:00:26 4 1
bbc
Really? Are these 'ways of making steel' more environmentally friendly? As cost effective? As sustainable? Are you saying steel itself is not the best material for making wind turbines? How about 'shipbuilding'? Until such time there are viable cost effective sustainable alternatives to 'making steel' the the best option is a home-grown option.
472
19/01/2021 18:17:36 7 1
bbc
Explain the other ways of making steel please I'm curious. If you know something we engineers need to know then please enlighten us. I'm interested in your elusive wonder material.
507
19/01/2021 18:26:57 3 2
bbc
As dim as a 10 watt bulb, but at least you are saving energy.
583
19/01/2021 18:45:17 4 0
bbc
"And steel itself usually isn't the best material for the job..."

===

Despite the energy cost of production, steel and glass are the most recycleable materials we have.

What do you plan to replace steel with? Wood rots quicker than steel rusts. Plastic is mostly an unrecycled pollutant and concrete is very limited without steel reinforcement.

You're either ignorant or trolling us.
746
19/01/2021 19:31:39 0 0
bbc
But the other materials are not as strong, are a lot more expensive because their (MINED) ores are rarer and they take even more energy to convert them into a useable metal. If we made a wind turbine pylon out of titanium we might have been able to afford just one instead of the thousands we have generating precious renewables around our coast.
Pip
20/01/2021 22:44:23 0 0
bbc
I'm still wondering whatever happened to 'Graphene' much stronger than steel and a fantastic conductor. No mining for anything...........?
45
19/01/2021 16:52:27 10 22
bbc
Anything to keep hold of Tory voters. Not even the planet will get in the way. That's why this is on the politics page not the business page.
46
19/01/2021 16:49:31 10 21
bbc
There is NO climate change only evolution
71
19/01/2021 16:57:47 2 1
bbc
Putting no in upper case must make it so!
156
19/01/2021 17:16:15 0 0
bbc
everything changes.... evolution itself is a product of changing environmental factors. the climate is one of those factors that changes, and one heavily influenced by biological proccesses. currently the climate is changing at a faster rate than any advanced lifes evolutionary process. how can you believe in both evolution and that the climate has never changed simultaneously?
47
19/01/2021 16:50:47 147 34
bbc
Sensible decision by local council and Government. We don't have to import coal when we have coal underground. It provides jobs and coal security for our steel industries. I'd imagine all the Environmental campaigners will understand the need for this given the huge investment in off-shore windfarms and the on-shore wind farms that have ruined the landscape. Well done Government.
676
19/01/2021 19:11:24 12 2
bbc
Environmental campaigners are also likely to object to the slag on aesthetic grounds, but I've always thought it to be something of a trade-off . . .
968
TV
19/01/2021 20:47:16 0 1
bbc
Foolish. Invest in new technologies not old polluting ones. Google Electric Arc Furnace (EAF)
16
19/01/2021 16:10:35 59 240
bbc
It creates a precedent. It's hypocrisy worthy of any Tory government.
48
19/01/2021 16:52:34 36 4
bbc
Yes, we know you hate the Tories

Can't you make a comment without showing your latent Conservative hate? Just address the topic being discussed
49
19/01/2021 16:52:45 2 8
bbc
Do you really think dubious Jenrick would be acted! Don't make we laugh!
22
19/01/2021 16:16:52 181 33
bbc
How are we going to make "stuff". To build bridges, buildings, you need STEEL. To make steel, you need COAL, and lots of COAL. We either import everything, and go bankrupt, or we BUILD STUFF and make Britain a global leader. You need a LOT of coal to make a Wind Turbine for example.,.. COAL is not going away anytime soon, this will HELP our climate goals!
50
19/01/2021 16:52:47 27 107
bbc
What if steel, wind turbines etc. can be purchased cheaper abroad than we can produce them here? (Which they can of course.)
109
19/01/2021 17:07:32 13 3
bbc
Mate these things are big. 220 meters tall, with 3 blades each107 meters long. They will be made in the UK then installed in the various wind farms around the UK. This is something the UK is truly a world beater at. Making the things and installing them. Transporting these things is just too expensive. (not sure where the steel comes from or what ever they are made of comes from)
140
19/01/2021 17:13:06 13 2
bbc
Do you have any proof that they are cheaper and better quality? I'm no expert but I'd guess not. Prove me wrong?
489
19/01/2021 18:22:38 10 0
bbc
What if we can make it here with the same or less carbon footprint? Then there is no carbon footprint for importing it, UK employment is boosted, and we get to work on improving the process to reduce the carbon footprint further. Laziness is continuing to import coking coal or to import steel.
727
19/01/2021 19:24:39 1 0
bbc
But, then, they have to be transported to Britain, so the overall carbon footprint os much worse.
742
19/01/2021 19:30:10 0 0
bbc
It’s cheaper because their Labour is paid cheaply. Presumably you want everyone, everywhere to enjoy the same quality of life you do? It will cost you more to be philanthropic.
756
19/01/2021 19:34:59 0 0
bbc
Actually, they can't, once you add in the shipping costs (not to mention the carbon footprint of said shipping) and the economic contribution of jobs in the UK. That's why we make them here.
805
19/01/2021 19:46:45 0 0
bbc
cheap how for the bank balance or the environment? because it will cost more if we import or do you only care about ££££££££££££££££££
838
19/01/2021 19:57:39 0 0
bbc
So then you will turn a blind eye to the carbon cost and let some other nation do your dirty work and take your jobs?
878
19/01/2021 20:09:15 1 0
bbc
Keep up. The discussion is about the environment not cheapness of slave labour from abroad! And importing coal / steel will impact the environment more than making our own coal / steel here. Oh and it puts UK people into work, making it cheaper for the Government of the day as they don't have to give them dole money!
Here endeth the lesson!
935
19/01/2021 20:31:09 1 0
bbc
Lots of things can be made cheaper abroad. Things like PPE, ventilators, glass vials for drugs. Trouble is when you need them you are beholden to others and sometimes hostile powers.
Self sufficiency and repatriation of industry will be the key to survival in future.
972
19/01/2021 20:49:37 0 0
bbc
then no jobs
19/01/2021 21:12:28 0 0
bbc
“What if steel, wind turbines etc. can be purchased cheaper abroad than we can produce them here? (Which they can of course.)”
If we follow your argument we should send every ill person to be treated abroad in a Chinese or Indian hospital as they are far cheaper. We can have our government and civil service run from abroad, far cheaper eh. Of course we can have teaching online from abroad cheaper.
37
19/01/2021 16:45:06 9 26
bbc
Well at last someone with sense, the warmist religion has had its day,the lies should be apparent by now.
51
19/01/2021 16:53:30 10 5
bbc
Having witnessed the warmest 10 years on record!?? I just assume that any change might impact on your cushy lifestyle and we couldn't have that now. If you have kids I suspect they'd appreciate you leaving them a world as opposed to your house.
52
19/01/2021 16:53:53 110 6
bbc
The focus on this project should be CO2 recovery from the end to end process.
Burning coal and recovering coal tar as a by product for other uses.
Recoveing CO2 from the reaction of coke with iron ore in steel blast furnaces.
If we buy in coke from other countries we are not in control, if we buy in steel we are not in control.
The way to a carbon neutral future is to be in control end to end
271
19/01/2021 17:34:42 11 11
bbc
It should be yes. But will it. This would be an ideal solution but it won't be implemented. CO2 recovery hasn't got very far yet and is not likely to happen because - expensive.
554
19/01/2021 18:39:34 1 0
bbc
Very good point indeed
34
stu
19/01/2021 16:31:03 81 28
bbc
I remember when the north was all like 'those bloomin tories shutting the mines' and now they open one and now they're all like 'those blooming tories opening up mines'
make your mind up. do you want jobs or not
53
19/01/2021 16:54:03 23 30
bbc
At the time the issue was that coal could be imported more cheaply from Poland. The environmental issues weren't to the fore at that point.

So a poor deflection as ever.
Rubbish. Climate control relies on the production of steel to make wind turbines. Steel production needs coking coal. Have your lot never heard of trade offs and the overall carbon footprint?
529
19/01/2021 18:33:05 1 0
bbc
Well, no - you're missing the point. If UK can mine the coal more environmentally friendly or as environmentally friendly as Poland, China, or wherever, and make the steel more environmentally friendly or as environmentally friendly as Poland, China, or wherever, then the carbon footprint of transporting coking coal or steel to UK is eliminated. Better we have our own footprint!
19
19/01/2021 16:14:35 139 182
bbc
I reckon one "heritage" coal mine open for a part of the year only would hew enough coal for all the steam trains.... no need for a new open cast mine
54
19/01/2021 16:54:22 11 58
bbc
Or import it from somewhere else.

In any case how many "heritage railways" are going to survive coronamania?
143
19/01/2021 17:13:53 14 0
bbc
Hopefully most as they have been given grants by the Heritage Lottery Fund to keep going
37
19/01/2021 16:45:06 9 26
bbc
Well at last someone with sense, the warmist religion has had its day,the lies should be apparent by now.
55
19/01/2021 16:54:27 3 4
bbc
If you have grandchildren, mate, you had better be prepared to look them in the eye in years to come, and tell them your opinions. Good luck with that!!!
15
19/01/2021 16:06:06 483 91
bbc
No coal=no steel. It's as simple as that. However, steel would still be made here, but with coal imported from Russia or China, which would be even more environmentally unfriendly. And then there's the heritage steam railway business which has an annual turnover of hundreds of millions of pounds. Is that going to have to stop too?

We need some brave forward thinking here.
56
19/01/2021 16:54:55 24 58
bbc
"brave forward thinking" ...if a 40 year old VW Beetle can run on electricity, why can't a steam train? Electricity can be used to make steam, you know.
146
19/01/2021 17:14:43 2 3
bbc
Batteries in the coal tender then?
164
19/01/2021 17:17:38 8 1
bbc
What do you make the electricity from?
Do you understand efficiency in making energy do work?
515
19/01/2021 18:28:48 6 1
bbc
No coal = no steel. And nothing to do with power. Nor a STEAM train can be run on a kettle full of boiling water. It has something to do with machine efficiency, physics, energy conversion and energy losses. And if it does not run on steam it is not a steam train.
642
19/01/2021 18:58:40 0 0
bbc
Heresy!
57
19/01/2021 16:55:01 23 10
bbc
We need some coal for many and varied purposes. Why import it? Asia and Eastern Europe are increasing coal production massively. If a little squirt of an island like ours needs some, it's a drop in the global ocean.
Thunberg is a puppet. Her backers should focus her energies on things like brown coal-fired power stations, which make up 9 out of 10 of the most polluting businesses in Europe - 7 in Germany and 3 in Canada.

Or the massive coal-fired power station building plans in Asia and Africa.
Removed
58
19/01/2021 16:55:50 7 2
bbc
"10 of the most polluting businesses in Europe - 7 in Germany and 3 in Canada."

Canada is in Europe????
25
19/01/2021 16:22:49 82 24
bbc
Euronews today - Poland is worried about Biden causing them for having to go 'green' due to having 75% of electricity generated from coal and having 33 of the top 50 polluted cities in the EU. How could this still be the case in the lovely clean EU - Angela's origin East Germany much the same. Come on UK get on with some production - and save the shipping miles
59
19/01/2021 16:56:38 19 6
bbc
I read recently Poland will build Windfarms in the Baltic sea It takes time to transform your energy network They have only been in the EU for15 years. Germany started to phasing out Nuclear after Fukushima. So no choice to go to coal and Gas. However I do admire there local grid approach with local green production. The NIMBY issue of onshore wind go`s, don`t mind it so much if powers you cheaply
60
19/01/2021 16:56:50 9 15
bbc
No, they said. Borris is nothing like Trump.

And then he allowed a NEW COAL MINE.

But nothing like Trump, honest.

Hillarious.
61
19/01/2021 16:57:04 8 13
bbc
Johnson & co have the same opinion of net-zero emission and the rest as his predecessor Cameron - remember Call Me Dave having his picture taken with a seal pup saying "we can't go on like this"?

As soon as Cameron was in office he's on the record as saying "forget all that green cr*p"

Johnson lies without thinking, about everything, and the Angry Grandads who vote for him literally DO NOT CARE
11
19/01/2021 15:59:51 90 15
bbc
It's a bit rich being preached to by Powershift Africa. Africa is a huge exporter of coal, and across Africa they are planning to build thousands of coal-fired power stations over the next decade.

We have a choice of buying in coking coal, with a bigger carbon footprint, or mining our own. There is currently no environmentally friendly alternative to coking coal.
62
19/01/2021 16:57:31 17 7
bbc
Hmm yeah, those very large coal stations in South Africa, total 40 GWh capacity. Just to put this into context the large twin PWRs of Sizewell C will produce 3.2 GWh

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_South_Africa#Coal_fired
753
19/01/2021 19:33:39 1 0
bbc
"they are planning to build thousands of coal-fired power stations over the next decade." what part of this statement do you not understand!!
29
19/01/2021 16:25:41 5 31
bbc
We don't need coke: Stop the Steel!
63
19/01/2021 16:53:55 0 1
bbc
No steel means no civilisation, think of all the things you see everyday that are are made from steel. Think of the batteries in your smart phone or the environmental friendly car you drive, all the these require rare earth minerals and metals, that need to be mined, using mining machinery made from steel!
64
19/01/2021 16:57:45 18 3
bbc
Hardly a return to early C20th production levels or use, so no grounds for zealous hysteria. Better to address all the other causes of pollution.
As for steam trains using coal, of which the Welsh coal was the cleanest; not as environmentally damaging as some of the modern diesel polluting trains. Again there needs to be some overall balance.
210
19/01/2021 17:23:54 0 3
bbc
The punk solution would be to replace the coal in locomotive tenders with hydrogen cylinders.
65
19/01/2021 16:58:34 10 6
bbc
At the end of the day Climate Change is just a convenience for many of those local people objecting to the development. They're just NIMBY's really who are jumping on the environmental bandwagon because it suits their argument.
22
19/01/2021 16:16:52 181 33
bbc
How are we going to make "stuff". To build bridges, buildings, you need STEEL. To make steel, you need COAL, and lots of COAL. We either import everything, and go bankrupt, or we BUILD STUFF and make Britain a global leader. You need a LOT of coal to make a Wind Turbine for example.,.. COAL is not going away anytime soon, this will HELP our climate goals!
66
19/01/2021 16:58:42 4 21
bbc
Don't be daft. Britain doesn't build anything.

Except resentment.... It's very good at resentment.
666
19/01/2021 19:04:54 8 0
bbc
The UK is the 6th largest manufacturer in the World, Germany is 3rd, there are no other European countries in the top 20.
20/01/2021 09:12:43 0 0
bbc
UK is the 10th largest manufacturer in the world.
Services, Banking etc are **not** included. So wrong yet again.
37
19/01/2021 16:45:06 9 26
bbc
Well at last someone with sense, the warmist religion has had its day,the lies should be apparent by now.
67
19/01/2021 16:59:04 3 3
bbc
Speaks a man who never reads a thermometer and never goes outside. You clapped out Angry Grandads are smashing the planet up on your way out.
68
19/01/2021 16:59:04 2 12
bbc
Anyone surprised given the frequency with which this government says one thing and ends up doing another? The steel furnaces will shine as beacons of Tory hypocracy.
34
stu
19/01/2021 16:31:03 81 28
bbc
I remember when the north was all like 'those bloomin tories shutting the mines' and now they open one and now they're all like 'those blooming tories opening up mines'
make your mind up. do you want jobs or not
69
19/01/2021 16:59:21 15 6
bbc
Pedantic point but Labour instigated closure of the mines as a policy under the Callahan government which closed more coal mines than the subsequent Thatcher government.

Labour like to keep quiet about that fact...
70
bbc
Lake district prone to floods now.
You reap what you sow.
They don't like tourists ,but like their money.
Never hear anyone say the people in the Lakes are great,just the scenery.
Removed
46
19/01/2021 16:49:31 10 21
bbc
There is NO climate change only evolution
71
19/01/2021 16:57:47 2 1
bbc
Putting no in upper case must make it so!
72
19/01/2021 16:59:04 25 4
bbc
I really wish folk would take the time to understand what's going on here: they need the coal for making steel. NOT for burning to make electricity. If you wish to support jobs in this country, then open the mine or else you're importing coal from other countries thereby creating a MUCH larger carbon footprint and supporting other country's jobs instead.
92
DR
19/01/2021 17:04:29 17 6
bbc
The greens don't care anymore it jobs, their only want is for us to be back in the middle ages again.
133
19/01/2021 17:12:06 1 3
bbc
You mean we should burn coal to make a nice profit for the Chinese owners of British Steel.
73
19/01/2021 16:59:54 28 7
bbc
How uneducated and stupid are the opposers, of course we need coal for other industries where there is no alternative. Open the pit reduce long haul imports and close it when we have alternatives. However if you want to live without steel and concrete shut it down, and we'll live in houses of straw with the other stupid piggies.
20/01/2021 15:36:12 2 0
bbc
And the big joke is that atmospheric CO2 levels have never driven the climate on Earth in all of geological history. Anthropogenic Global Warming is pseudoscientific drivel.
24
19/01/2021 16:21:31 387 59
bbc
have the people complaining about this read anything about the purpose of the mine? its not for power, its coking coal for steel which would be imported if not mined here. Are the going to ban Steel? I think not. Usual virtual signally over sensible action. We need steel, therefore we need coking coal until we swop global steel production to coal free solutions, which will take time.
74
19/01/2021 17:00:18 116 23
bbc
Spot on!
796
19/01/2021 19:44:46 3 2
bbc
You can always tell climate experts. But not much.
75
19/01/2021 17:00:19 3 12
bbc
We are currently at the thin end of the wedge. Things are only going to get worse with this government. Can't wait for Boris and co to bring in Trump as an advisor.
119
19/01/2021 17:09:49 0 2
bbc
Be careful, he might advise the storming of Westminster. Hmmm.
120
19/01/2021 17:10:05 0 0
bbc
There is enough insanity at the moment with Johnson and his mob, let alone having another rogue to add to it.
76
19/01/2021 17:00:51 2 3
bbc
Does that mean we might get to listen to a bit of Colliery Band music again?

Like in Brassed Off?
170
19/01/2021 17:18:14 0 0
bbc
Possibly, so long as they don't play modern test pieces. What happened to "Resurgam" and "Life Divine"? Even "Gallion's Reach" and London's River" were tuneful.
38
19/01/2021 16:48:08 52 10
bbc
We accept coal mining is a necessary evil because it's required for steel. So, to follow the logic, unless we stop needing steel we'll always need coal, which isn't an infinite resource. So when we run out of coal, we run out of steel.

Blimey, in that perspective it all seems rather bleak.
77
19/01/2021 17:01:21 10 59
bbc
Do we still make steel? And I wonder how much of this production will be used to make steel. The last thing we need in yet more coal.
114
19/01/2021 17:08:29 7 1
bbc
ask the 6000 well paid workers in port talbot if we still make steel?
122
19/01/2021 17:07:12 4 0
bbc
Yes we still make steel. And all of it since it produces coking coal which is used in steel making.
466
19/01/2021 18:15:45 1 0
bbc
Lack of research before your comment, certainly makes you live up to your name.
786
19/01/2021 19:42:41 2 0
bbc
Yes, in Scunthorpe just up the A15 from me. And the Coking coal will be shipped from this mine to Scunthorpe and Port Talbot on the rails 1500 tonnes at a time rather than using the roads.
78
19/01/2021 17:01:23 18 4
bbc
Plenty of indignation about this. Do any of these climate emergency activists really accept that in order to produce steel for the next generation some coal is going to have to be mined. Yes, we can limit coal use to the processes for which coal-based chemistry is essential. But preventing the opening of all new mines will mean an end of the steel age ? C.arbon fibre cannot carry this load alone
33
19/01/2021 16:31:01 190 21
bbc
The arguments here are the need for the mine for steel production . If this is the only way to produce steel , then all the arguments against this are going to fall on deaf ears . Steel is needed , whether the mine is here or in another country .
This isn't the only way, clown.

The Tories have destroyed UK steel and have destroyed UK mining.

They are the ones who are running the upcoming global Green conference.

And they are the ones waving this through.

Any old gibberish from any old posh mediocrity will do for you, won't it Grandad?

You lot don't care just so long as you can blame all your lifes failures on Pakistan
Removed
177
19/01/2021 17:19:14 17 2
bbc
UK steel was destroyed by cheap, subsidised, foreign imports
377
19/01/2021 17:54:54 4 1
bbc
Very partisan inaccurate comments there, you omit to mention we were tied into the EU, bound by rules that forbid the government to temporary support our steel industry with state funds.
497
19/01/2021 18:23:48 4 1
bbc
Not very bright are you.
36
19/01/2021 16:40:08 17 18
bbc
There is sense and reason in all things but in this case the environmentalists have blown it. For campaigners climate change as now become a religion and a fundamentalist one at that and we all know where fundamentalism ends up. So the mine owners and the govt should make sure the mine workers are well protected against terrorist attacks not only at the mine but more importantly at their homes
80
19/01/2021 17:02:49 0 1
bbc
Any evidence of coal miners being attacked in this country. Yawn, I didn't think so.
81
19/01/2021 17:02:57 8 2
bbc
All those armchair protesters on this thing, stop moaning about one coal mine. If you had any backbone or genuine conviction then you would be going over to China and demonstrating over there, but that would obviously take guts to do something like that, wouldn't it??! It's far easier to live in a cosy democracy and shout from your pathetic, ineffectual soapboxes. What a joke you all are!
144
19/01/2021 17:13:57 1 0
bbc
Slight problem: to get into China you need a visa. Who in China is going to sponsor you? I support the mine as you need carbon to make steel. Would have given a Like but for the abuse.
228
19/01/2021 17:26:33 1 0
bbc
Are these armchair protestors for or against armchairs or are they sitting on the fence?
82
19/01/2021 17:03:01 80 15
bbc
It is coking coal for steel, not for power stations. There isn’t a renewable alternative currently. This should be clear in the article but isn’t, misleading and sensationalised as usual from the BBC.
237
19/01/2021 17:28:24 9 25
bbc
No mention of the coalfield's gas problem, nor of the possibility of disturbing radioactive waste settled on the seabed.
Which newspaper or broadcaster has been objective on the subject?
20
19/01/2021 16:15:16 17 11
bbc
Typical Labour want to stop steam on heritage rail lines. Anything to destroy our history.
83
19/01/2021 17:03:06 0 1
bbc
So you're saying Labour's opposition to this is because of their desire to... "destroy our history" by denying coal to heritage steam trains?

Er... O-kaaaaaaaaaay
Yet again the Terrible Torys are sending mixed messages

They are now allowing bee killing pesticudes currently banned in the EU (after promosing they wouldnt lower enviromental standards post Brexit, Boris also branded himself as the "saviour of Christmas" & caused the current Covid spike. Now they allow new coal mines undercutting their previous promises regarding the enviroment
198
19/01/2021 17:22:14 2 0
bbc
Well, you've clearly mastered the art of reducing complex issues to Simple Slogans for Simple People! That little collection of partial truths, 'alt-facts' and deliberate distortions was worthy of Trump himself.
FWIW, the neonic 'ban' had a loophole that has seen them used legally across EU27 more than 70 times in the last 2 years; in similar circumstances to the UK's new exemption for sugar beet.
34
stu
19/01/2021 16:31:03 81 28
bbc
I remember when the north was all like 'those bloomin tories shutting the mines' and now they open one and now they're all like 'those blooming tories opening up mines'
make your mind up. do you want jobs or not
85
19/01/2021 17:03:21 2 8
bbc
Not jobs that destroy the planet.
34
stu
19/01/2021 16:31:03 81 28
bbc
I remember when the north was all like 'those bloomin tories shutting the mines' and now they open one and now they're all like 'those blooming tories opening up mines'
make your mind up. do you want jobs or not
86
19/01/2021 17:03:32 2 3
bbc
It wasn't that the mines shut - miners were never compensated properly for such dangerous, health destroying work nobody in their right mind would miss. It was arbitrary & callous way it was done for political motives.

...and the Council that gave permission is a Labour Libdem coal-ition. SWIDT ;-)
87
Rob
19/01/2021 17:01:56 33 6
bbc
Wind turbines are made of steel, so we need the steel to make the turbines, no brainer, or no brains like a lot of the environmentalists. Do you want us to import more of our steel, which would be even worse for the environment. Think before you shout out, then drive off in your cars, cook with your ovens, wash using taps, bath using boilers, etc, steel we need it, face the facts!
107
19/01/2021 17:07:14 5 17
bbc
Unfortunately we rarely make any of the turbine components and provide little of the labour force who construct them.I would dearly love to blame Labour for this , but it is entirely down to the Tories. We can of course blame Labour for the lack of carbon capture infrastructure, that was entirely down to lair and Broon as they are a pair of technical illiterates just like most Mp's.
490
19/01/2021 18:22:38 2 0
bbc
The problem in England is in places where the wind blows a bit more than in London eg Cumbria, planning permission for wind turbines is often rejected because local people don’t want it ‘spoiling their view of little hills and fields’.
88
19/01/2021 17:01:56 6 9
bbc
Wish the populist minority view would stop driving BBC headlines , not everyone believes climate change is manmade
94
19/01/2021 17:05:34 2 2
bbc
Yep, that's the problem because guess what... IT IS
124
19/01/2021 17:07:51 2 0
bbc
Yes but virtually all those qualified in climate science with relevant research experience and publication history do. It is only the scientifically illiterate that have any doubt.
89
19/01/2021 17:03:52 1 7
bbc
"The planning minister Robert Jenrick could have overruled it, but said the issue was best decided at a local level"

Remember this?

Government Overrules Council to Allow Fracking in Lancashire
https://www.simplyswitch.com/government-overrules-council-to-allow-fracking-in-lancashire/

Fracking in Lancashire given go-ahead by government
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-england-lancashire-37567866
90
19/01/2021 17:03:54 23 4
bbc
To make iron & steel from iron ore, it has to be roasted with coke (from coal) to convert it from iron oxide to iron plus C02. Basic chemistry. If its done in the UK, with locally mined coal, we can regulate the process and get employment benefits. Or we could outsource this from elsewhere and pretend that C02 wasn't emitted.
40
19/01/2021 16:49:43 96 44
bbc
Everything in moderation, the problem with climate change activists is they won’t be happy unless we all live in caves and are dressed only in leaves.
91
19/01/2021 17:04:18 31 62
bbc
What a deeply idiotic comment.
161
19/01/2021 17:17:18 17 6
bbc
Entirely true. Climate fanatics have no plan for how humans live in their dystopian nightmare.
252
19/01/2021 17:30:48 10 4
bbc
So far 60% of people on this HYS disagree with you!
736
19/01/2021 19:27:00 2 1
bbc
No, just a realistic observation.
991
19/01/2021 21:04:41 1 2
bbc
"green energy" is promoted by the big energy makers who suck up government money for wind turbines that cost more inenergy to build, run and then dismantle than they'll ever supply. Rooftop solar, even in the UK should be the only way to go not ruin the environment with wind farms that kill wildlife in droves and make living nearby a nightmare.
72
19/01/2021 16:59:04 25 4
bbc
I really wish folk would take the time to understand what's going on here: they need the coal for making steel. NOT for burning to make electricity. If you wish to support jobs in this country, then open the mine or else you're importing coal from other countries thereby creating a MUCH larger carbon footprint and supporting other country's jobs instead.
92
DR
19/01/2021 17:04:29 17 6
bbc
The greens don't care anymore it jobs, their only want is for us to be back in the middle ages again.
545
19/01/2021 18:37:03 1 1
bbc
You do understand that alternatives to fossil fuels are not only the future but also will create new jobs. You don’t just shut something and have nothing
93
19/01/2021 17:05:09 4 5
bbc
With the involvement of Jenrick, it raises in my mind the question of integrity because of his less than transparent dealings with a mega property developer in London who, as it happend, donated to Tory funds once Jenrick had rushed through his multi-million pound planning application.
115
19/01/2021 17:09:11 1 1
bbc
Let me put your mind at rest. There's no question of ANY integrity with Jenrick.
88
19/01/2021 17:01:56 6 9
bbc
Wish the populist minority view would stop driving BBC headlines , not everyone believes climate change is manmade
94
19/01/2021 17:05:34 2 2
bbc
Yep, that's the problem because guess what... IT IS
95
19/01/2021 17:03:45 17 2
bbc
In case people skipped this paticular class in secondary chool basic science, coal is REQUIRED to produce steel, not to mention a number of other things.
So unless anyone has a cheaper, stronger, more readily available building material, I think we can assume that we're still going to be needing coal for many decades yet, and better our own than the additional geo-impact of importing it.
96
19/01/2021 17:04:49 9 1
bbc
There are non-fuel uses for coal. So there may still be a need for it.
97
19/01/2021 17:05:53 12 3
bbc
China has opened dozens of coal fired power stations every year this century. This one mine is insignificant compared to that.
574
19/01/2021 18:42:42 1 1
bbc
We might lock up a few minorities too, only a few thousand so not as bad
98
19/01/2021 17:06:26 7 1
bbc
For the foreseeable future, coal is going to be needed for steel-making. We can mine it locally, or we can ship it around the world from countries with far lower environmental protections. Objectors to this mine just want to 'outsource' their pollution to China.

Global focus should instead be on reducing coal-use for electricity generation, where there are already plenty of viable alternatives.
19
19/01/2021 16:14:35 139 182
bbc
I reckon one "heritage" coal mine open for a part of the year only would hew enough coal for all the steam trains.... no need for a new open cast mine
99
19/01/2021 17:06:26 38 7
bbc
if you think that then you are clueless. I work in the forest of dean coal mines and heritage coal mines don't mine coal, they are not authorised to. we, as 8 working coal mines in the forest, could not supply enough for the heritage railways.
100
19/01/2021 17:06:33 0 8
bbc
Steel making is just a ruse by Kwarteng. This is the Tories idea of levelling up the north, reopen the pits they closed in the 80’s.