Insurers must pay many small firms for Covid lockdown losses
15/01/2021 | news | business | 1,424
A Supreme Court ruling provides a lifeline for many firms that had business interruption insurance.
1
15/01/2021 10:47:19 852 31
bbc
Quite right too.

It was scandalous, yet entirely predictable, that insurers tried to wriggle out of paying business interruption insurance risks. Especially the likes of Hiscox who had clear “disease” & “pandemic” cover in their policies yet still refused to pay out. Small businesses took out these often expensive policies in good faith and it’s disgusting that insurers tried to stiff them.
81
PCS
15/01/2021 11:03:15 316 22
bbc
In the dictionary under "Insurer" read "Bookie" both hate paying out!
159
15/01/2021 11:11:51 44 4
bbc
This is the correct decision. The down side is that premiums for everyone will inevitably increase over the next few years putting further financial pressure in the same small businesses.
182
15/01/2021 11:16:00 37 31
bbc
So small businesses
When you get these payments give back the money from the govt back too
Don’t commit fraud
208
15/01/2021 11:20:36 35 6
bbc
This case has actually been an example of good regulator involvement.

The Covid pandemic and subsequent lockdown was unprecedented - for insurers and insurance policies too. Insurers initially declined many claims but were quick and willing to work with the regulator in order to ensure the fairest outcome overall (esp. for customers).

It is in an insurer's long term interest to be fair.
220
15/01/2021 11:22:09 10 12
bbc
And when you get your payout do not spend it as you will need it to pay for the increased renewal premium.....
243
15/01/2021 11:26:18 25 21
bbc
What kind of low life actually down votes this comment?
264
15/01/2021 11:30:45 25 1
bbc
Completely agree. That’s insurance companies for you all over though. Take, take then make legitimate claimants jump through hoops.
309
15/01/2021 11:40:54 16 1
bbc
Well said , we as a small Company have paid thousands to Insurance Companies and there is always some wee small print they use to say the won't pay out, its a scandal. Well done for all those getting a payout you deserve it, shame of the greedy Insurers !
400
FF
15/01/2021 12:00:23 17 1
bbc
They are still trying to wriggle out of it. We lost a months trading due to Covid back in May 2020 and although our insurance was covered by disease and pandemic they argued because cases were low in our local area they did not pay out.

Insurers are in the same bracket as Lawyers.
559
15/01/2021 12:07:52 5 1
bbc
insurers never enjoy paying out
581
15/01/2021 12:32:24 1 2
bbc
Insurance companies never lose - all business insurance and probably personal insurance policies will be much more expensive next year because of the payouts - this year my businesses’ PI insurance increased by 30% and I was told by the broker it was due to risk of interruption insurance - the fact we have never had interruption insurance and never will was irrelevant. We will all pay for this!
600
15/01/2021 12:36:03 6 1
bbc
The problem with a lot of insurance policies is that they are written in convoluted legal speak and are the length of the King James Bible. Most normal people simply don't have the time or legal expertise to wade through them to find all the little holes that have been put in.
639
15/01/2021 12:46:54 2 4
bbc
Hiscox are an exception to the rule.

You can’t insure against something that didn’t resist when you took out insurance.

This will back fire and you’ll be disappointed when your premiums go up.

This isn’t socialism, not everything is paid for by someone else
749
15/01/2021 13:10:29 4 0
bbc
Hiscox just tried to put up my home insurance by 17%
Obviously I’ll go elsewhere.
Horrible people.
789
15/01/2021 13:20:42 2 0
bbc
disgusting, but un surprisingly foreseeable
15/01/2021 15:27:50 1 3
bbc
Not a single insurer has tried to wriggle out of paying a single claim they are contractually obliged to pay. You are talking nonsense stating Hiscox or any other insurer provided Pandemic cover and without charge.
2
15/01/2021 10:48:09 116 13
bbc
Great news - A HYS on something positive!
108
15/01/2021 11:06:28 75 12
bbc
Of course the whole industry will pay it all back in raised premiums but lets not let that detract from a positively spun article for a change!
3
15/01/2021 10:48:21 219 12
bbc
At last - a little bit of good news for small businesses!
118
15/01/2021 11:07:39 98 21
bbc
It's all part of a game of "pass the financial parcel".

Insurance companies will now try to pass the "buck" to the banks, the banks will then try to get the government to cough up.

All quite predictable!
171
15/01/2021 11:14:53 0 3
bbc
And treasury who’ve given money as insurers now top up not govt
335
15/01/2021 11:47:04 4 1
bbc
Now that insurance companies are paying out the small businesses who received grants can return that money to the tax payer. Great news indeed!
481
15/01/2021 12:11:57 3 2
bbc
Surving the first lockdown isnt a solution, most small buisneses who went under in the first lockdown would not survive the next anyway. The payouts may allow some to start another buisness post COVID but then again we have banks to lend small buisnesses money for exactly that so it changes very little.

It will make premiums go up a lot, right across the industry, insurance doesnt create money.
787
15/01/2021 13:19:56 2 1
bbc
and not good for families try too keep their heads financially afloat and now with insurance premiums going up.
854
15/01/2021 13:41:09 1 1
bbc
Most small businesses have milked governments handouts at the cost to the tax payer, now another blow to joe public with increased insurance premiums ????????
16/01/2021 05:29:19 0 0
bbc
insurers never lose.
4
15/01/2021 10:48:53 117 14
bbc
Makes a lot of sense or when it comes down to it, what's the point of having insurance?
238
15/01/2021 11:25:43 35 69
bbc
I assume you think that everything is covered, and policy wordings are meaningless?
526
15/01/2021 12:20:14 1 6
bbc
Its simple, when most people are doing well everyone pays a little so the few that have a problem can be given a little from everyone i.e. a lot to them. This does not work if everyone claims as everyone giving a little cannot result in everyone getting back a lot. Insurance only works if the bad thing you are protecting against doesnt happen to everyone, COVID is global, did you miss the memo?
5
15/01/2021 10:49:19 49 17
bbc
Excellent news. People 1, Insurance Fatcats 0
622
15/01/2021 12:41:49 15 10
bbc
Tomorrow everyones premiums go up, the fatcats dont use their own money, they use yours. If you think that is a win, maybe you deserve to have your money taken.
6
15/01/2021 10:49:33 386 12
bbc
Insurers must pay small firms for Covid lockdown losses

to be followed by

Small firms must pay higher premiums to insurers for Covid lockdown losses
157
15/01/2021 11:11:43 141 10
bbc
reply to Keith Absolutely right , when this Covid merry go round stops everyone in the UK will be worse off with lower living standards , and no insurance governmental or otherwise will cover this
206
15/01/2021 11:20:17 20 2
bbc
Insurance companies are only there to spread the financial risk. Ultimately it's the customers who collectively pay. And that's the way it should be.
233
15/01/2021 11:24:14 16 1
bbc
The losses of some companies that were disproportionally affected by the pandemic will be covered by all companies in the future.

That is the purpose of insurance, my house didn't catch fire or fall down last year but I still feel good about having house insurance.

It's good the Supreme Court moved so fast on this, we want to save the businesses not compensate the former owners.
234
15/01/2021 11:24:19 16 5
bbc
That's how insurance works, yes. Well done. It's the same when motor claim payouts go through the roof, or floods etc.

Or should everything be free? Let's get Marcus Rashford on the case!!!
252
15/01/2021 11:17:00 11 1
bbc
Too true, insurers aren't charities so they will need to cover these additional claims by increasing future premiums for all businesses.
320
15/01/2021 11:43:32 4 7
bbc
We already pay vast sums in Premiums....
328
15/01/2021 11:45:57 4 1
bbc
good luck to the small businesses but can I expect my own various (home..motor..life ) insurance premiums to rise as a result ? silly question really !!
452
15/01/2021 12:07:05 3 1
bbc
More likley there will be no insurance product on offer. COVID is real so the probability it could go on longer or happen again is not just non-zero, its actualy quite high.
456
15/01/2021 12:07:29 4 2
bbc
Possibly. But I think its more likely that (depending on how much more Yo-Yo Lockdown looks likely) the insurers would offer two policies. A hideously expensive one that covers future lockdowns, and one at the old price that specifically doesn't cover lockdowns.
484
15/01/2021 12:12:23 5 1
bbc
Correction - All to pay higher premiums to cover insurers losses
518
Bob
15/01/2021 12:18:22 6 1
bbc
Well that is how insurance works. Insurance is not a government-backed charity. If claims occur, premiums rise.

Insurance merely evens out the burden meaning people unaffected will pay for those who were.

To be honest I doubt either side expected this eventuality to occur.
660
15/01/2021 12:42:26 3 0
bbc
Not just small firms, we'll all be paying it, in motoring, travel, household insurance increases, the whole lot. And businesses can look forward to more exclusions in their future policies too! A hollow victory I suspect. And will firms that get insurance money have to reimburse the taxpayer for the support they have had? Only fair, they can;t get double compensation at our expense.
684
15/01/2021 12:56:09 0 0
bbc
I suspect most of the policy statements will now change for renewals like Travel insurance has changed making the insurance not worth the value of the paper it would be printed on in most cases regarding Covid19 and future diseases.
744
15/01/2021 13:09:54 0 0
bbc
Same thing happens when utilities companies screw up and get fined.
821
15/01/2021 13:31:03 3 0
bbc
To be followed by:

Customers must pay higher prices to said small firms for costly insurance policies.
883
15/01/2021 13:47:51 2 0
bbc
More likely as well:

Small firms find that insurers insert a very clear "no cover in the event of a pandemic" clause in the "what you are not covered for" section.
15/01/2021 14:37:06 1 0
bbc
No - everyone will pay higher premiums so that insurers can re-coup their losses, but at the same time all policies will have a force majeure clause that prevents claims resulting from a pandemic or lockdown. So we will pay a higher premium for less risk. Insurers never lose out.
15/01/2021 14:50:18 1 0
bbc
No matter how much you don't like insurers, they are businesses too and can't run at a loss or they no longer have a business so, yes, premiums will go up.
15/01/2021 15:14:25 0 0
bbc
Also followed by "insurers rewording their business interruption insurance to avoid paying out in future pandemics/waves"
15/01/2021 16:35:42 0 0
bbc
Hopefully not as most policies do not cover Covid lockdown losses
15/01/2021 18:24:01 0 0
bbc
We would bother with the cover again it’s clearly not worth the paper it’s printed on.
7
15/01/2021 10:50:01 186 20
bbc
Hurrah, why do insurance companies try it on when people make a fair claim, it's a disgrace !!!
145
15/01/2021 11:10:21 62 21
bbc
I would have thought that was obvious - it's profitability. If insurance companies pay every claim they receive without question they won't last very long, go bust, and everyone working for them will be looking for a new job and/or claiming benefits. Or, they heavily load their premiums to cover the losses, then it becomes unaffordable for customers who will then end up without cover anyway.
232
15/01/2021 11:23:58 6 1
bbc
and those not making a fair claim??? as several commercial policies clearly excluded this cover.
325
Oaf
15/01/2021 11:44:32 4 6
bbc
Because it's all a financial picture to them and they aren't truly governed by anyone. GP/Solicitor/Accountant etc makes enough mistakes, their licence is removed. Insurance company deliberately does something wrong, nothing happens except they have to set it right so it's effectively a no lose gamble for them each time they try it on.
364
15/01/2021 11:30:00 3 1
bbc
I have just been told by my insurance company that I can’t claim losses caused by a pandemic - so not all small businesses are going to be able to claim!
388
15/01/2021 11:58:45 3 1
bbc
They do it to protect themselves from paying out people who are trying it on with them... so they only pay out on genuine claims, thus keeping your premiums down
500
15/01/2021 12:14:38 0 2
bbc
They claim it is not fair, them having a diferent opinion to you is hardly a disgrace, at least not in a country where people are allowed to have diferent opinions. You are blindly assuming insurance companies are happy to cover people for things that affect the entire world, you are nieve, they hate the idea for good reason. Insurance only relaly works while most people dont need to claim.
15/01/2021 15:24:26 0 0
bbc
They dont. If a claim is covered, we will pay it. However please be aware that approximately 170,000 fraudulent insurance claims were discovered last year and that some things are just not covered. If your TV breaks down, why would you expect an insurer to replace it?
8
15/01/2021 10:50:28 6 2
bbc
Its good that business owners will be compensated but what about the staff who have been made redundant and had reduced wages during a furlough period as a result of the pandemic? For many staff the 20% reduction in wages has wiped out the redundancy payments they then received.
46
15/01/2021 10:58:07 3 1
bbc
That shouldn't be the case, you can't be on furlough whilst in the redundancy process so they have to calculate your pay on full wage, my company got in a right mess with it and ended up at tribunal
181
15/01/2021 11:15:51 1 1
bbc
Business Interruption insurance pay-outs will enable viable companies that have survived so far to continue and rebuild their business which is in everyone's interests, and will save jobs.
9
15/01/2021 10:50:50 118 16
bbc
Good. It is outrageous that Hiscox and others denied cover when it is so obviously covered by their policy
362
15/01/2021 11:29:30 37 9
bbc
Some insurers wording - like Hiscox were blatantly deficient. However others weren’t and it’s not fair to the diligent ones to tar everyone with the same brush.
384
15/01/2021 11:35:17 6 2
bbc
The whole point of the court case is that it wasn't obviously covered and was never intended to be!
435
15/01/2021 11:48:07 3 1
bbc
So obvious that the High Court largely found in the insurer's favour! But it is good that it is settled at what by the standards of our legal profession is lightening speed.
471
15/01/2021 12:09:41 6 1
bbc
That was the whole point of the case. It was NOT "so obviously covered". It was not an event foreseen or take into account in costings.
833
15/01/2021 13:34:09 0 0
bbc
You wait and see how the premiums change on such policies...........

Out of the reach of most small companies.
10
15/01/2021 10:50:55 435 37
bbc
Typical insurance. Sell a policy thinking you would never have to pay out. Serves them right.
28
MVS
15/01/2021 10:54:33 139 384
bbc
That is a complete mis-representation of what the insurance market does to protect so many people from financial misfortune. But hey! Why not blieve it if it makes you feel better?
279
15/01/2021 11:34:51 26 9
bbc
Why don’t you go away and do some research. Find out what proportion of claims made that insurers pay out. You will be pleasantly surprised that insurance companies pay out in the vast majority (98%+) of all claims made, which makes your comment ridiculous.
361
15/01/2021 11:29:30 9 1
bbc
The only spivs in the insurance industry are companies like Sun Life with their "guaranteed over 50's life cover" nonsense. Unless you die within 2 years of taking one of their policies you will pay more in premiums than you will get paid out.
560
15/01/2021 12:08:09 3 3
bbc
always read the small print..insurers never enjoy paying out
679
15/01/2021 12:55:20 1 1
bbc
Sadly the only way you find out if that policy you have to cover yourself is any good, is when you put in a claim.
682
15/01/2021 12:55:44 1 0
bbc
Makes you wonder why the poicyholders don't ask for all the "things that would never happen" to be removed from cover and negotiate a cheaper premium.
780
15/01/2021 13:17:53 0 0
bbc
Yeah mate and your insurance premiums will go through the roof to pay for it
844
15/01/2021 13:38:50 2 0
bbc
Yes, but, most companies have abused the ridiculous furlough scheme (I see it day in day out!) and now they will cream the insurers money. Guess what? The insurers will but their premiums up, and guess who’s going to pay extra on insurances going forward? You and I!! To don’t celebrate too much ????????
11
15/01/2021 10:51:28 56 8
bbc
Inevitable result. Watch premiums rocket next renewal.
237
15/01/2021 11:25:32 19 4
bbc
for everyone across all clases of insurance (car / life / house), or did you think it would be just business insurance that increased ?
295
15/01/2021 11:39:15 1 2
bbc
I’m not sure many will care. It is what it is. The insured companies just need these payouts just to survive in many cases.
612
15/01/2021 12:37:55 1 0
bbc
Worse, exepct premiums to go up and policies to cover less. Wouldnt surprise me if you couldnt get a policy which would cover another pandemic, from anyone.
12
15/01/2021 10:51:40 6 2
bbc
Wile I like this, I fear that the result will be the cancellation of large numbers of policies and many more coverage exclusions on any future ones.
31
15/01/2021 10:55:22 5 2
bbc
That is what always happens, same as living in a flood area you cant get cover.
62
15/01/2021 10:59:45 1 4
bbc
That's because insurance companies are crooks. They want your money every year but then refuse to pay out. Crooks.
13
15/01/2021 10:51:46 5 3
bbc
Yep Keith you are correct, policies price going up at next renewal
14
15/01/2021 10:51:59 3 12
bbc
Thank you Boris. Another brilliant move.
34
15/01/2021 10:56:32 7 3
bbc
Since when has Boris Johnson sat on the Supreme Court?

You're getting your legislature mixed up with your judiciary.
40
15/01/2021 10:57:09 2 2
bbc
Boris doesn't rule in the supreme court, mate.
69
15/01/2021 11:01:29 2 2
bbc
Nothing to do with Boris.
15/01/2021 17:48:15 0 0
bbc
and what has it to do with him
15
15/01/2021 10:52:41 155 27
bbc
Hooray! I worked in IT for an insurance company and it does not hurt me to say they are nothing more than leeches and sharks, this is a win for the small man/company.
If you feel that way maybe you should get yourself a conscience and resign ! Removed
546
15/01/2021 12:24:38 12 2
bbc
Absolutely, I worked in insurance for many years and they will do anything to avoid paying out if possible. There are very few insurance companies I would trust!!
665
15/01/2021 12:52:17 3 0
bbc
Leeches and Sharks defines most businessmen I have ever encountered.
713
15/01/2021 12:52:46 1 9
bbc
Working in IT does not make you an Insurance expert so perhaps you should concentrate on what you specialise in
779
Jon
15/01/2021 13:17:52 2 6
bbc
Just taking a balanced position here, but working in IT does not qualify someone to understand policy wordings or interpretations.

That's a specialist area. In the same way, you wouldn't ask an insurance underwriter to design a new computer system.

Also, you shouldn't include all companies in your criticism - though by all means call out the company you worked for if it was bad.
896
15/01/2021 13:50:49 0 6
bbc
So you worked as a helpdesk gopher before your job was outsourced to India. You didn't really work in insurance
15/01/2021 15:25:30 0 0
bbc
OK, if you worked in an IT dept. then your standard response was "switch it off and on again" . I wouldnt be taking lessons on what is and isnt covered from you chief.
15/01/2021 16:58:10 0 0
bbc
Where do you think you salary comes from?
16
MVS
15/01/2021 10:52:41 37 5
bbc
Sanity prevails. But there will be inevitable rises in premiums as a result.
229
15/01/2021 11:23:29 21 3
bbc
More likely very clear pandemic exclusions. Check your next travel insurance policy!
230
15/01/2021 11:23:53 0 1
bbc
... and that will premium rises accross the board - hope all the people cheering this result will still be cheering when their car / house / pet / life insurance premiums increase
17
15/01/2021 10:52:47 46 3
bbc
do get too over confident...seems to be a perception here that the insurers CEO pay it out his bonus; no YOU all pay it out your fees. And it just means two things in the fitureu 1.exclusions clauses will be tight for next time as is aleady happening and 2.Premiums go up
51
15/01/2021 10:58:23 25 14
bbc
If there are too many exclusion clauses people will just decide not to bother. The insurance companies will then lose far more money.
18
15/01/2021 10:52:53 64 12
bbc
"We recognise this has been a particularly difficult time for many small businesses"
So why when advised a large portion of policies would be ruled to be valid for these circumstances did they appeal? Absolute bottom of the swamp this lot.
368
15/01/2021 11:32:11 24 24
bbc
And yet when your house is flooded or someone smashes your car you’ll ask these swamp monsters to clean and pay for it....
841
15/01/2021 13:36:43 0 0
bbc
Mate forget insurance. If you're not happy with them why bother having it?
15/01/2021 15:19:20 1 0
bbc
Yep, total pond life bottom feeders, criminals don't like to part with ill gotten gains, that's why courts have the power to force them, good news for a change.
19
15/01/2021 10:53:07 74 14
bbc
"The insurance industry needs to face up to the fact that it failed customers at their greatest moment of need, destroying companies, livelihoods and jobs," he said.

And without fail every time they have an opportunity to cite `force majeure', which is far too often.
41
15/01/2021 10:57:22 34 79
bbc
You really don't understand Insurance do you?
594
15/01/2021 12:35:06 3 2
bbc
How can the premiums paid by everyone possibly cover the payouts if everyone claims? Insurance only works when most people dont claim, to ignore this is so incredibly blinkered and COVID is so obviously global. This isnt 100 houses geting flooded where the premiums of the remaining 40 million homes easily cover the cost...
834
15/01/2021 13:34:29 0 0
bbc
Yep maybe so but when you next renew your insurance, in big writing will be the clause, does not cover pandemics
903
15/01/2021 13:54:54 0 0
bbc
`force majeure' is a declared event by an authority (e.g. the Gov) in most contracts and this has not been declared as one yet (nor would it be, every contract would crumble).

Needless to say the large insurers will always avoid paying but then again the compo claiming public trying to claim £1000 for non-existent whiplash should not be surprised if premiums are high
15/01/2021 17:49:03 0 0
bbc
do you really think they are there for the good of the customers
really
20
15/01/2021 10:53:20 4 3
bbc
Now wait for the fraudsters to get going.
972
CJR
15/01/2021 14:22:04 0 0
bbc
Thought they already had the insurance company’s.
21
15/01/2021 10:53:27 244 18
bbc
Insurance companies are renowned for trying to get out of paying out. A excellent decision by the Supreme Court. Small business had payed in good faith, for a protection policy.
64
15/01/2021 11:00:30 40 205
bbc
But that policy didn’t include cover for a virus which didn’t exist when the policy was agreed.
144
15/01/2021 11:10:19 22 4
bbc
I work for an insurance company that is well known for paying out, sometimes even when legally we don't have to. But then I work for a Mutual.
805
15/01/2021 13:23:59 0 0
bbc
Not good for struggling families with an inevitable high insurance premium coming to pay for it
15/01/2021 15:22:53 0 0
bbc
Renowned for not paying out but wrongly so. Most insurers pay out in the region of 95% of all claims, those which aren't are those where the claims are found to be fraudulent, or less than an excess or just plain not covered. If a claim is covered, I can tell you from 34 years dealing with them, that its easier for us to pay them than argue about it but you need to know what you are covered for
22
15/01/2021 10:53:49 11 6
bbc
This is an unprecedented situation. Had Insurers paid out on policies that they believed were not on cover they would have faced claims from their shareholders. Establishing the coverage in Court was the only option. Good news for small businesses.
72
15/01/2021 11:01:50 6 3
bbc
Wrong...Insurance co know full well what’s in their policies they make sure it’s run by their legal teams, this is about trying to get away with it.
149
15/01/2021 11:10:56 1 1
bbc
The test case and appeal ruling is that insurers must honour the terms of their policies. Insurers go by the letter of the policies except with the Covid-19 Pandemic which they never anticipated so have been caught out. With our policy they rejected our claim because the tried to say policy did not cover the lockdown by the government in March. The court has no found that is not valid.
23
Rob
15/01/2021 10:53:56 5 6
bbc
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahadamnyoucharacterlimithahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
24
15/01/2021 10:54:08 11 1
bbc
Don't get excited people!
They've been called out this time, it won't happen again.
Just watch now as premiums go through the roof and additional clauses and restrictions get added come renewal time.
They won't get caught out a second time!
129
15/01/2021 11:08:34 1 4
bbc
Doesn't really matter. We won't have another pandemic like this for a few years.
25
15/01/2021 10:54:14 11 9
bbc
Next is for govt to tackle insurance companies hitting those poor people who have been flooded more than once, these companies have had a free ride making mega millions for years.
60
15/01/2021 10:59:18 11 3
bbc
So you want people who live on a flood plain to be able to have cheap insurance even though they have flood claims every year?

What kind of weird and wonderful socialism is that?

You clearly do not understand the fundamentals of anything
303
15/01/2021 11:20:36 0 1
bbc
There is already a scheme in place which limits the premiums paid by those at high risk of flooding. Google Flood Re.
Average home insurance premiums are £150 per year. Flood claims cost well over £10,000. Insurers are businesses and the cost of those claims has to be covered by premium income somehow. The question is how much it is fair to subsidise?
We need more money for flood defences.
26
15/01/2021 10:54:23 10 2
bbc
The Insurers will find a way to recoup the costs from every else. Nothing more than a case of musical chairs. Good victory small businesses though.
55
15/01/2021 10:59:02 4 2
bbc
Not a victory at all - small business premiums are now doubling and trebling right now - Im a broker so I see this every day now - those who are getting paid better tuck it away as they'll need it
27
15/01/2021 10:54:33 3 3
bbc
They are probably right to make them pay out but I would guess that when a policy covers disease it generally wouldn't be for a government enforced lockdown to most businesses.
42
15/01/2021 10:57:27 3 4
bbc
Correct - I work in the insurance industry and Gov have wiggled out of this.
49
15/01/2021 10:58:12 1 3
bbc
It wouldn’t be for a disease that doesn’t exist when the policy was agreed
10
15/01/2021 10:50:55 435 37
bbc
Typical insurance. Sell a policy thinking you would never have to pay out. Serves them right.
28
MVS
15/01/2021 10:54:33 139 384
bbc
That is a complete mis-representation of what the insurance market does to protect so many people from financial misfortune. But hey! Why not blieve it if it makes you feel better?
47
15/01/2021 10:58:08 76 15
bbc
Are you a spiv insurance seller in disguise? They never thought for one second last February that a month later the ship would sail in.
More cowboys in insurance than a spaghetti western.
196
15/01/2021 11:18:11 18 7
bbc
Clearly it isn't a misrepresentation
209
ken
15/01/2021 11:20:40 7 2
bbc
They did the same with flooding of properties what about the spread risk????
462
15/01/2021 12:08:17 8 11
bbc
Rubbish, Insurance Companies want the money without the risk! They are like banks who lend you an umbrella and want it back when it’s raining.
I made a claim on my car ins many years ago for vandalism. They paid out £500. The following year, my renewal cost was £500 more than the year before.
722
15/01/2021 13:05:12 4 4
bbc
Trololol. Only someone in the insurance industry would say that
794
15/01/2021 13:21:08 0 0
bbc
so no, to saying yes to MVS
798
15/01/2021 13:21:38 0 0
bbc
And break FCA rules?

When I gave my insurer an earful about it, they attempted to give me a stack of hush money. Long gone are the days of reasonable financial institutions.
837
15/01/2021 13:35:42 0 0
bbc
Go on then, give us the real picture.
850
15/01/2021 13:39:54 2 3
bbc
Actually as someone who works in that market its entirely an accurate representation of what insurers do. Avoid payout if possible, always refuse on anything that could make a precedent and argue blind your own terms meant something else. Even after this ruling we have been LITERALLY instructed to "take our time" getting assessors out.
858
15/01/2021 13:41:45 1 0
bbc
Vested interest perchance?
919
15/01/2021 14:02:18 1 1
bbc
Um that is literally the insurance business model.
15/01/2021 15:05:35 0 0
bbc
Sad you feel the need to trivialise what many small business owners have been put through. Acceptable to you, is it? Let me guess - you have a guaranteed income and no doubt fat pension to look forward to
15/01/2021 15:36:54 0 0
bbc
Then you might want to talk to an ex work colleague of mine, who after the floods the NE had a few years ago, ended up sitting on deckchairs for dunno how long as his insurance company kept delaying and delaying when he would get an insurance payout
BOF
15/01/2021 17:46:47 0 0
bbc
Insurance companies are in business to collect premiums not to make payments. One off claims are paid but where there is an event which gives rise to major loses the claims are to be avoided if possible after all profits and bonuses might take a hit.
15/01/2021 18:23:09 0 0
bbc
Bunch of Robbing bar stewards always looking at ways not to pay out. Never had a simple claim yet.

Would love this to bankrupt the lot
29
Lee
15/01/2021 10:54:37 10 7
bbc
Watch premiums quadruple next year, clever way for the Government to pass it on for the business to pay for.
48
15/01/2021 10:58:09 7 1
bbc
I got my contents insurance renewal quote yesterday.
It was 4 times what I paid last year without any real reason from what I could see and they would not reduce it when I calld.
So I moved elsewhere but even that was twice what I paid last year
15
15/01/2021 10:52:41 155 27
bbc
Hooray! I worked in IT for an insurance company and it does not hurt me to say they are nothing more than leeches and sharks, this is a win for the small man/company.
If you feel that way maybe you should get yourself a conscience and resign ! Removed
45
15/01/2021 10:57:38 50 2
bbc
Obviously you cannot read I said I worked, meaning past tense..so no longer working..
58
15/01/2021 10:59:09 28 2
bbc
"I worked" - past tense.
90
15/01/2021 10:59:41 23 2
bbc
He said ‘worked’ as in past tense.
91
15/01/2021 11:03:44 10 3
bbc
Talking loud..... and saying nothing.....
163
15/01/2021 11:13:09 21 4
bbc
Bet you feel stupid now.

You ought to . . . .
219
15/01/2021 11:22:01 16 2
bbc
last time I checked 'worked' was past tense - basic English
Dick Removed
563
15/01/2021 12:28:28 3 2
bbc
He said "leechers and sharks" not "doing something imoral and or illegal". It is odd you think nobody should work for an employer if they dont like that employer. Most people would define the threshold to rage quit as more than just being a bit unhappy.
650
15/01/2021 12:49:11 6 0
bbc
Worked is past tense - read the comment before you criticize
685
15/01/2021 12:56:30 3 0
bbc
The key word from officer dibble is WORKED!!!!!!!
848
15/01/2021 13:39:23 0 1
bbc
But sadly, most people will need insurance at some point, so the insurers will need staff to run the business...we'd be without insurance if everyone objected to working for them
892
15/01/2021 13:49:11 1 0
bbc
"worked"

If your eyesight is that bad maybe you should visit an optometrist!
15/01/2021 14:49:44 0 0
bbc
If you bother to read the text OD said 'worked' which is past tense and from that intimates that he may very well have had a conscience moment and resigned! Just a thought;-)
12
15/01/2021 10:51:40 6 2
bbc
Wile I like this, I fear that the result will be the cancellation of large numbers of policies and many more coverage exclusions on any future ones.
31
15/01/2021 10:55:22 5 2
bbc
That is what always happens, same as living in a flood area you cant get cover.
32
15/01/2021 10:55:57 157 5
bbc
"The ruling could cost the insurance sector hundreds of millions of pounds."

Actually the ruling will cost insurance policy holders hundreds of millions of pounds.
319
15/01/2021 11:43:18 94 2
bbc
A one-off event in all likelihood.
Expect to see a pandemic exclusion clause in just about every policy going forward.
382
15/01/2021 11:34:16 6 2
bbc
Correct. If insurers had planned for these losses, premiums would have been much higher in the first place and a lot of businesses wouldn't have paid for the extra cover as they too wouldn't have thought this could ever happen. If you want business interruption cover in the future its going to cost a small fortune
386
15/01/2021 11:58:30 2 2
bbc
Correct.
Its like giving a bank a fine for shady practices. They will just pass it on. The only way I can see it working for the banks is taking away their banking licence rather than fine them. I wonder if ther is a suitable deterrent for insurance companies?
545
15/01/2021 12:23:48 1 1
bbc
And result in changes to policies, dont expect all the changes to be in favor of the policy holder either.
573
QED
15/01/2021 12:31:01 0 1
bbc
Yes, but in affordable increases over years, not all at once.
15/01/2021 15:29:41 0 1
bbc
In fact, expect some insurance companies to close and many others to make staff redundant. Many didn’t believe their wordings gave this cover, they were thinking about small scale salmonella outbreaks or similar when they wrote the wordings.
15/01/2021 17:50:08 4 0
bbc
I cant think of an insurance company that has gone to the wall (other than for internal fraud)
33
15/01/2021 10:56:17 9 11
bbc
I work in the insurance industry & every single one of us will pay for this, many more than those who will get payouts - the majority will now pay for the minority for cover that was never underwritten for. - premiums are already rocketing up, with very penal terms applying. Insurers will NEVER lose out - a battle has been lost, but the war will be won by them - wait and see.
105
15/01/2021 11:06:09 0 1
bbc
We know that premiums will go up. So what? Let's hope a few syndicates lose out.
138
15/01/2021 11:09:49 0 3
bbc
I worked as an Expert Witness in Civil Liability claims, sometimes for the company/insurer and sometimes for the claimant/Union. One of the first things I was told by a national insurer was "We are a business - not a charity or public service. We MUST make a profit and it WILL come from policy holders.
140
15/01/2021 11:10:09 0 3
bbc
I've worked in the insurance industry and that's exactly what the whole insurance model is for. Plus, you should have reinsurance in place of 1 in 100 year events like this in any case. Always appalled at the thought that you shouldn't claim and should suffer in isolation instead of for what it's intended. Also, insurers are so disorganised that premium increase is mostly mismanagement
14
15/01/2021 10:51:59 3 12
bbc
Thank you Boris. Another brilliant move.
34
15/01/2021 10:56:32 7 3
bbc
Since when has Boris Johnson sat on the Supreme Court?

You're getting your legislature mixed up with your judiciary.
310
15/01/2021 11:41:29 1 3
bbc
Boris is the man.
35
15/01/2021 10:56:47 81 7
bbc
Good ruling. A pity it has to go all the way to the supreme court to get the result.
126
15/01/2021 11:08:16 23 6
bbc
Exactly.
170
15/01/2021 11:14:46 0 1
bbc
What is interesting, is that there is similar litigation in Ireland, on hold while awaiting the outcome of the UK case.

There may be more trouble ahead . . .
402
15/01/2021 12:00:30 0 2
bbc
the supreme Court that Johnson wants to get rid of
677
15/01/2021 12:54:57 0 2
bbc
Any payouts should go straight to the government to compensate tax payers for all the money business has claimed.
752
15/01/2021 13:11:21 0 0
bbc
I don't think that it is a pity. By going there and getting this sort of judgement it will ensure that the insured don't have to battle this going forward. There is no total clarity, and it proves that they system works.
15/01/2021 15:28:08 2 0
bbc
Also a pity that some insurers were not instructed to pay compensation for refusing to pay up when it stated explicitly in the contract that it would pay out for a pandemic
36
15/01/2021 10:56:51 1 10
bbc
The Supreme Court is, of course, an independent body and is no more a government puppet than the Hong Kong judiciary is Beijing's stooge.
37
15/01/2021 10:56:55 8 8
bbc
And all could have been avoided if they didn’t close the “unessential” businesses and hospitality, where as data shows, covid has not been spreading when measures were implemented.
38
15/01/2021 10:48:18 15 3
bbc
This is an incredibly important ruling, beeb.

I mean this most sincerely - I really hope this reduces the "desperation" of furlough fraud that we've been hearing about.

I own a business and we have been trading "above board" at all times using cash flow only. We did it the honest way.
94
15/01/2021 11:04:04 12 1
bbc
I don't think the majority of furlough fraud comes from desperation. I could be wrong and overly pessimistic, but I think fraud is mostly opportistic and malicious rather than a result of desperation.
39
15/01/2021 10:52:15 5 20
bbc
And just like that, fearing total collapse of their industry, insurers massively hiked up premiums. Thanks from someone who hasn't been furloughed and carried on working and paying tax during the PANdemIC, I'm so glad my home and car insurance will go up.....
57
15/01/2021 10:59:05 9 5
bbc
How dare people claim on the insurance they paid premiums into for years for exactly this sort of thing. Disgraceful.
65
15/01/2021 11:00:30 1 5
bbc
Thats right - you and I will now pay through the nose to keep a small percentage of business happy
106
15/01/2021 11:06:17 1 1
bbc
So your income has remained, but your future outgoings may increase - kindly think of those who's income has gone completely but still have obligations before posting your 'poor me' comment... and some have bereavements to deal with too.
112
15/01/2021 11:06:59 0 1
bbc
But you didn't pay their premiums Peter. Your point makes no sense at all.
14
15/01/2021 10:51:59 3 12
bbc
Thank you Boris. Another brilliant move.
40
15/01/2021 10:57:09 2 2
bbc
Boris doesn't rule in the supreme court, mate.
175
15/01/2021 11:15:28 1 2
bbc
Yet............
19
15/01/2021 10:53:07 74 14
bbc
"The insurance industry needs to face up to the fact that it failed customers at their greatest moment of need, destroying companies, livelihoods and jobs," he said.

And without fail every time they have an opportunity to cite `force majeure', which is far too often.
41
15/01/2021 10:57:22 34 79
bbc
You really don't understand Insurance do you?
79
15/01/2021 11:02:36 12 5
bbc
No it’s you that doesn’t understand the industry.
139
15/01/2021 11:09:50 7 8
bbc
Yes we do. Parasitical vermin. It's a long time since a significant insurance company went bust. (In the UK anyway.)
15/01/2021 16:18:54 0 0
bbc
He does, he worked at AON in total for 6 years.
27
15/01/2021 10:54:33 3 3
bbc
They are probably right to make them pay out but I would guess that when a policy covers disease it generally wouldn't be for a government enforced lockdown to most businesses.
42
15/01/2021 10:57:27 3 4
bbc
Correct - I work in the insurance industry and Gov have wiggled out of this.
43
15/01/2021 10:57:28 9 5
bbc
Truth in advertising: "We are the God forbid we should ever have to pay a claim Insurance Company Ltd."
44
15/01/2021 10:57:34 55 8
bbc
Great result for thousands of small businesses and all of their employees. Well done also to the courts for fast tracking this case to the highest court in the land. The decision is therefore final and can't be appealed further.
980
15/01/2021 14:25:33 3 6
bbc
Fast tracked by the courts? The courts don't do that, the appellant appeals to the next court up in the chain.
15/01/2021 16:58:09 0 0
bbc
Also great for the taxpayer. There will be lots of money coming back into the coffers as these businesses were insured and could afford to have stayed afloat.

So they are now able to pay back what they took.

Everyone wins except the insurers.
If you feel that way maybe you should get yourself a conscience and resign ! Removed
45
15/01/2021 10:57:38 50 2
bbc
Obviously you cannot read I said I worked, meaning past tense..so no longer working..
8
15/01/2021 10:50:28 6 2
bbc
Its good that business owners will be compensated but what about the staff who have been made redundant and had reduced wages during a furlough period as a result of the pandemic? For many staff the 20% reduction in wages has wiped out the redundancy payments they then received.
46
15/01/2021 10:58:07 3 1
bbc
That shouldn't be the case, you can't be on furlough whilst in the redundancy process so they have to calculate your pay on full wage, my company got in a right mess with it and ended up at tribunal
28
MVS
15/01/2021 10:54:33 139 384
bbc
That is a complete mis-representation of what the insurance market does to protect so many people from financial misfortune. But hey! Why not blieve it if it makes you feel better?
47
15/01/2021 10:58:08 76 15
bbc
Are you a spiv insurance seller in disguise? They never thought for one second last February that a month later the ship would sail in.
More cowboys in insurance than a spaghetti western.
155
MVS
15/01/2021 11:11:21 27 47
bbc
No, I am somebody who has been able to drive, and go on holiday and have a mortgage and cover for my possessions against theft and accident, and breakdown cover for my car and household appliances....and have never had a problem with an insurance company handling my applications and very occasional payouts in my 55 years of being a customer.
217
15/01/2021 11:21:45 14 19
bbc
Spiv insurance seller? Or the object of the UK's national sport - defrauding the insurance man. Spivs and liars; conmen and gullibles. We're all equal, in the end.
29
Lee
15/01/2021 10:54:37 10 7
bbc
Watch premiums quadruple next year, clever way for the Government to pass it on for the business to pay for.
48
15/01/2021 10:58:09 7 1
bbc
I got my contents insurance renewal quote yesterday.
It was 4 times what I paid last year without any real reason from what I could see and they would not reduce it when I calld.
So I moved elsewhere but even that was twice what I paid last year
27
15/01/2021 10:54:33 3 3
bbc
They are probably right to make them pay out but I would guess that when a policy covers disease it generally wouldn't be for a government enforced lockdown to most businesses.
49
15/01/2021 10:58:12 1 3
bbc
It wouldn’t be for a disease that doesn’t exist when the policy was agreed
50
15/01/2021 10:58:18 22 3
bbc
Amen to this ruling. Our Insurance company said the plague was covered but not COVID.
17
15/01/2021 10:52:47 46 3
bbc
do get too over confident...seems to be a perception here that the insurers CEO pay it out his bonus; no YOU all pay it out your fees. And it just means two things in the fitureu 1.exclusions clauses will be tight for next time as is aleady happening and 2.Premiums go up
51
15/01/2021 10:58:23 25 14
bbc
If there are too many exclusion clauses people will just decide not to bother. The insurance companies will then lose far more money.
245
15/01/2021 11:26:56 9 1
bbc
Dont be ridiculous - business need insurance for all sorts of events other than a pandemic - no one will simply 'not bother'
389
15/01/2021 11:38:25 1 2
bbc
If they are losing money then doing less will mean losing less money!!
Insurer profits on things like car insurance are zero
428
15/01/2021 12:03:38 5 1
bbc
You can't always "decide not to bother". If you're running businesses with loans, they'll be require insurance policies, in the same way your mortgage lender would on a house.

If you don't bother, what about break-ins, floods, death-in-service you may be liable for? You'd need to sit on a pile of cash to cover those eventualities without insurance.

You don't run a business do you?
619
15/01/2021 12:40:30 0 0
bbc
No, no and no again. Insurance works well when the insurer can pay the claims with the combined premiums i.e. for events where only a small proportion of people claim. This is where their proffit is and this is useful to the permium payers so there is no reason for it to stop. Its cover for global events that is the problem, and they should not be covered, its basic economics.
15/01/2021 15:36:12 0 0
bbc
Which is why many insurance policies are worded so that they look like they provide cover, but the small print allows them to not pay up or substantially reduce the payout.
For example my Professional Indemnity Cover with Hiscox allowed them to cancel cover if any legal action were threatened
52
15/01/2021 10:58:43 22 11
bbc
This was a ridiculous waste of time and money. All the insurers involved in this should be warned as to their future conduct. While there will be times when insurers can legitimately refuse claims this was not one of them and anyone who works or has worked in the insurance industry could see that. The insurers that took this to court should be ashamed.
53
MVS
15/01/2021 10:58:49 23 10
bbc
The complete lack of understanding of the insurance industry shown by so many posting on here, beggars belief.
The insurance industry provides almost all of us with the ability to carry out much of our lives without having to fear the financial ruin of an accident.
Sometimes insurance companies get stuff a bit wrong, but 99% of the time they are very good at looking after their customers.
84
15/01/2021 11:03:16 11 12
bbc
And which insurance company do you work for pray? Most people's experience is that insurance companies are very bad at looking after their customers 99% of the time.
95
15/01/2021 11:04:04 3 3
bbc
Many thanks for your input Mr Hiscox.
98
15/01/2021 11:04:21 2 6
bbc
A "bit" wrong? Several hundred millions' worth of wrong is more than a "bit" to me. They are sucm.
130
MVS
15/01/2021 11:08:43 1 4
bbc
Loving all of the responses from people who clearly do not drive, or go on holiday or have mortgages or breakdown cover for cars or household appliances, or home insurance against theft or accident.
160
VoR
15/01/2021 11:11:53 6 3
bbc
Not to mention that most insurers and their staff take pride in being there when people need them.
54
15/01/2021 10:58:56 19 16
bbc
Love all the posts here from the people who don't understand the first thing about insurance.
76
15/01/2021 11:02:21 3 12
bbc
Yes - i agree - I work in insurance and its absolutely laughable - so many ill thought out and short sighted comments. Like Ive said on here before, if its such a rip off, dont buy insurance apart from TP motor cover, EL cover and stat inspection for LOLER and PUWER plant.
87
15/01/2021 11:03:32 4 2
bbc
QUite a lot of do, I suspect, and bear the scars of trying to deal with insurers who all have massive resources to try to fight claims.
100
15/01/2021 11:04:28 1 3
bbc
What like you...
178
15/01/2021 11:01:33 2 2
bbc
You mean getting vouchers from an over inflated priced jewellers instead of cash or a shop of your choice?
179
15/01/2021 11:03:28 1 3
bbc
Most insurance is mandatory, hence a rip off.
271
15/01/2021 11:33:29 0 1
bbc
I do understand that if I enter into a contract I am legally obliged to uphold my part. If I taken a calculated risk (as insurance is all about) then I'm still liable.
15/01/2021 16:51:30 0 0
bbc
To be fair, not an industry renowned for hiring the brightest either.

As is perhaps evidenced by the poor legal wording in the Hiscox policies that has left them open to this?
26
15/01/2021 10:54:23 10 2
bbc
The Insurers will find a way to recoup the costs from every else. Nothing more than a case of musical chairs. Good victory small businesses though.
55
15/01/2021 10:59:02 4 2
bbc
Not a victory at all - small business premiums are now doubling and trebling right now - Im a broker so I see this every day now - those who are getting paid better tuck it away as they'll need it
103
15/01/2021 11:04:48 2 3
bbc
Sounds like a threat. No wonder people despise insurance companies. Legalised mafia.
148
15/01/2021 11:10:50 2 1
bbc
If anything this shows what an awful situation we're in, where insurers paying out comes with a free threat.
246
15/01/2021 11:27:19 1 1
bbc
Ever a true word but you know you will be knocked for being honest, all this talk of fat cat insurance companies, ignorance is bliss.
56
15/01/2021 10:59:03 93 15
bbc
Happy to take your premiums not happy to pay out disgraceful !
277
15/01/2021 11:34:37 49 85
bbc
I think it's disgraceful that people are so thick that they think that insurance covers 'everything'.

As a broker I know what we do. We send clients detailed quotes. There are IPIDs which say what is - and what is not - covered on the policy. We send policy wordings. But I suppose it's all too much - client's can't read all that, but want every claim paid though.
567
15/01/2021 12:30:04 3 7
bbc
Are you happy to pay for things? Do you overpay on your taxes? No, you do not. You pay the minimum you have to, like everyone else including insurance companies. You are no better, get off your high horse and drink your milk!
818
15/01/2021 13:30:04 0 2
bbc
Are you happy to pay my insurance premiums as they will now go sky high?
39
15/01/2021 10:52:15 5 20
bbc
And just like that, fearing total collapse of their industry, insurers massively hiked up premiums. Thanks from someone who hasn't been furloughed and carried on working and paying tax during the PANdemIC, I'm so glad my home and car insurance will go up.....
57
15/01/2021 10:59:05 9 5
bbc
How dare people claim on the insurance they paid premiums into for years for exactly this sort of thing. Disgraceful.
250
15/01/2021 11:13:38 1 2
bbc
but they didn't. No insurance contract says it will pay out because an idiotic government decided to close everything down because of a virus.
If you feel that way maybe you should get yourself a conscience and resign ! Removed
58
15/01/2021 10:59:09 28 2
bbc
"I worked" - past tense.
59
15/01/2021 10:59:15 8 5
bbc
I don't have a business I work in education but I have in the past read Hiscox' adverts & expected them to cover the lockdown losses based on their advertising material. I think they were ill advised to try not paying out as it will discourage businesses insuring with them. It will may higher premiums although not justified if new policies don't cover current lockdown type situations.
25
15/01/2021 10:54:14 11 9
bbc
Next is for govt to tackle insurance companies hitting those poor people who have been flooded more than once, these companies have had a free ride making mega millions for years.
60
15/01/2021 10:59:18 11 3
bbc
So you want people who live on a flood plain to be able to have cheap insurance even though they have flood claims every year?

What kind of weird and wonderful socialism is that?

You clearly do not understand the fundamentals of anything
121
15/01/2021 11:07:57 2 1
bbc
Er, it's not any form of socialism. Rather, it is a failure of the government planning system and a failure of the people stupid enough to buy h ouses by a watercourse.
61
15/01/2021 10:59:28 7 5
bbc
Fantastic news as those businesses who can claim will now be able to reimburse our great country with all the Covid support money they have had.
15/01/2021 14:42:22 0 0
bbc
Did you understand anything in the article?
12
15/01/2021 10:51:40 6 2
bbc
Wile I like this, I fear that the result will be the cancellation of large numbers of policies and many more coverage exclusions on any future ones.
62
15/01/2021 10:59:45 1 4
bbc
That's because insurance companies are crooks. They want your money every year but then refuse to pay out. Crooks.
189
15/01/2021 11:16:58 2 1
bbc
If you know something is definitely going to happen you really wouldn't get insurance.
449
15/01/2021 11:50:58 0 1
bbc
Not crooks at all. Valid claims are always paid. If your statistics say that every year you pay an average of £500 per property in flood plains , you arent going to charge premiums of £200 each are you!!
63
15/01/2021 10:59:53 13 5
bbc
Now for the FCA to go after wedding insurance companies who fell back on terms and conditions to refuse payouts for cancelled weddings. Default clause of "government regulation" not covered, then denying claims because people could attend /hold weddings with more than 15 people.
150
VoR
15/01/2021 11:11:02 7 4
bbc
So, it sounds like you are complaining that you didn't like the terms of the policy you bought, rather than them breaching any terms of it.

If a wedding wasn't cancelled, but was just scaled back, it's not obvious to me that wedding cancellation insurance would be expected to pay out.

And likewise, if gov't regulation is excluded, and that's causing a cancellation, why should it pay out?
21
15/01/2021 10:53:27 244 18
bbc
Insurance companies are renowned for trying to get out of paying out. A excellent decision by the Supreme Court. Small business had payed in good faith, for a protection policy.
64
15/01/2021 11:00:30 40 205
bbc
But that policy didn’t include cover for a virus which didn’t exist when the policy was agreed.
109
15/01/2021 11:06:44 52 3
bbc
That's the point of insurance, to cover you for the unexpected. This virus was unexpected circumstances
122
15/01/2021 11:07:58 38 2
bbc
Actually it did
Any notifiable disease within x miles of a workplace.
152
CJR
15/01/2021 11:11:07 47 6
bbc
The same could be said on your motor insurance, that road was not constructed when you took out your policy, so unfortunately your claim is rejected. Think about it.
158
15/01/2021 11:11:49 6 1
bbc
source required
166
15/01/2021 11:13:59 28 2
bbc
... but then it is still the insurers responsibility to anticipate such a development. The policies did not specifically state that unknown viruses were not covered.
215
Sam
15/01/2021 11:13:15 19 3
bbc
@theprowerwins So insurance should only cover you for things that actually exist at the time the policy was taken out? If my car is struck by a new Tesla, fresh from the showroom, that shouldn't be covered? Besides, there were plenty of viruses in existence before coronavirus that could have had a similar impact.
294
15/01/2021 11:39:07 18 1
bbc
The whole issue with viruses is that they don't exist the moment before actually they do.
They are a future event that insurance companies sell policies to cover and accept the financial risks in return. The calculation of the likelyhood of an event and the resulting costs is the Insurance company's.
337
15/01/2021 11:47:17 10 1
bbc
People insure themselves against unforseen circumstances.A new virus is an unforseen circumstance. Its one that the insurance company didnt forsee and subsequently add it to their long list of exceptions to the insured.
340
15/01/2021 11:24:43 4 1
bbc
A storm doesn't exist until it happens.
476
15/01/2021 12:11:05 4 2
bbc
In future, all insurance policies will explicitly exclude direct or indirect impacts of a pandemic (and some policies already did). But where this cover was included, it's only right that the insurers should pay out, and disgraceful that they tried to evade paying - an action that brought these companies into disrepute and undermines confidence in the whole principle of insurance.
506
15/01/2021 12:15:31 1 1
bbc
The article doesn't drill into details but presumably no contracts anywhere said "COVID" or "lockdown", but many might well have said things like "closure due to disease". Being ordered by the government to close to contain a disease would presumably fit this even if "lockdown" wasn't a scenario the insurer had specifically considered.
570
15/01/2021 12:30:39 0 1
bbc
That is the whole point of Insurance surely?
582
TC
15/01/2021 12:33:20 0 0
bbc
According to the Court it did.
617
15/01/2021 12:26:19 0 1
bbc
Our interruption insurance was for "notifiable disease". Covid-19 was added to the Government list of notifiable diseases before the lock-down, so the claim is valid. However, it also says the disease should "manifest itself on the premises". Hmmm. If the disease exists across the UK, then surely it's on the premises as much as anywhere else? I look forward to the fight continuing............
757
15/01/2021 13:12:43 1 0
bbc
It clearly DID, as the court ruled
767
15/01/2021 13:14:38 0 0
bbc
it did. it covered, explicitly, all notifiable diseases that force closure
795
15/01/2021 13:21:16 0 0
bbc
All policies are not the same. My company's insurance policy was worded to cover a pandemic but they've still managed to wriggle out of paying.

Hopefully we'll get something back now.
826
15/01/2021 13:18:06 0 0
bbc
It didn't exclude it either.

Greedy insurance companies
868
15/01/2021 13:44:26 0 0
bbc
actually in several cases it specifically did include "pandemic" cover. Next question?
895
15/01/2021 13:50:31 0 0
bbc
When insurance firms sells a policy it is for the future. Guess what, the future doesn't exist (and is unknown) at the time. It seems the future not existing only matters when the insurer has to pay out but it's irrelevant when it comes to collecting the premium.

As for a particular virus not existing at the time, therefore how can it be explicitly excluded
938
15/01/2021 14:11:11 0 0
bbc
My car insurance covers me against a crash that hasn't happened yet
15/01/2021 14:43:38 0 0
bbc
"But that policy didn’t include cover for a virus which didn’t exist when the policy was agreed."

Erm? Except that it did!
15/01/2021 14:56:53 0 0
bbc
Surely insurance pays for the unknown interruption risks which you cannot otherwise mitigate by yourself. The judge clearly ruled where the wording was clear.
15/01/2021 15:17:56 0 0
bbc
but did specify pandemic cover - which Covid is
15/01/2021 16:10:24 1 0
bbc
Viruses did exist. If the policy included pandemic then it should be covered. It seems that without knowing the detail of the policy you are arguing that the original court decisions and the appeal are both wrong.
Two court cases have found that the insurers are liable, and the fact that it has needed court cases is proof the insurer was trying to wriggle out of paying what they should.
15/01/2021 16:37:19 0 0
bbc
Bang on and wouldn't now cover any disease with the capability of bringing the entire world of commerce to a standstill.
15/01/2021 18:26:55 0 0
bbc
Ours covered the business being closed due to a notifiable illness within 25 miles. No list no mention of exceptions. We had even discussed pandemic as was planing the local schools pandemic response.
39
15/01/2021 10:52:15 5 20
bbc
And just like that, fearing total collapse of their industry, insurers massively hiked up premiums. Thanks from someone who hasn't been furloughed and carried on working and paying tax during the PANdemIC, I'm so glad my home and car insurance will go up.....
65
15/01/2021 11:00:30 1 5
bbc
Thats right - you and I will now pay through the nose to keep a small percentage of business happy
66
15/01/2021 11:00:51 3 2
bbc
Well done to everyone who fought this venal behaviour, great result! Time for a short celebration and to thank those who battled. Yes the gits will increase premiums, and yes they will almost certainly exclude all future pandemics - but they always would have done. So let's not moan about this until all claims have been paid in full.
67
15/01/2021 11:01:02 14 5
bbc
Good. The quote from the Association of British Insurers is an insult. The attempt by Hiscox in particular to wriggle out of claims was appalling, especially considering they like to push their "aren't we nice and lovely" advertising. They're a disgrace.
442
15/01/2021 11:48:26 3 2
bbc
Nonsense. Its a bit like me saying I'll give you 10k if you have a cold but then you expect the money because you have to sneeze. Its assumed that because you sneeze, you therefore have a cold
68
15/01/2021 11:01:02 4 9
bbc
Insurance companies in general are morally foul companies so it’s no surprise. I worked for one that rhymes with Hadrian Ducks once - they’re racist attitude to risk often relied on the name of the customer (I.e. Mohammed would not meet their criteria but Richard would). Each unbefitting person would simply be given a sky high price in the hope that they would go elsewhere. Needless to say I left.
165
VoR
15/01/2021 11:13:40 0 1
bbc
That company certainly sounds bad, but most are not like that these days.
14
15/01/2021 10:51:59 3 12
bbc
Thank you Boris. Another brilliant move.
69
15/01/2021 11:01:29 2 2
bbc
Nothing to do with Boris.
70
15/01/2021 11:01:33 0 3
bbc
Insurance must pay all the small business to recover
71
15/01/2021 11:01:44 2 3
bbc
If renewal costs do increase there should be a price cap on any potential price increase. The insurance companies should not be allowed to recoup these covid losses from policy holders. Insurance should be affordable for all.
93
15/01/2021 11:04:00 5 3
bbc
Your understanding of insurance is non existent !
99
15/01/2021 11:04:27 1 1
bbc
If the likelihood of something happening goes up, so do premiums, right? I'd be surprised if the premiums didn't raise sharply for this particular type of cover.
22
15/01/2021 10:53:49 11 6
bbc
This is an unprecedented situation. Had Insurers paid out on policies that they believed were not on cover they would have faced claims from their shareholders. Establishing the coverage in Court was the only option. Good news for small businesses.
72
15/01/2021 11:01:50 6 3
bbc
Wrong...Insurance co know full well what’s in their policies they make sure it’s run by their legal teams, this is about trying to get away with it.
321
15/01/2021 11:43:37 2 1
bbc
You really should stick to IT matters because your knowledge of how insurers work is nil. Don't feel bad about that because I know quite a lot about insurance and insurers but nothing about IT
73
15/01/2021 11:01:56 4 2
bbc
Good. Every little helps. Insurers know that they take the bad times with the good.
Insurers are generally scum. Glad to see them kicked like this. Removed
75
15/01/2021 11:02:20 3 6
bbc
Insurance companies are a disgrace!
54
15/01/2021 10:58:56 19 16
bbc
Love all the posts here from the people who don't understand the first thing about insurance.
76
15/01/2021 11:02:21 3 12
bbc
Yes - i agree - I work in insurance and its absolutely laughable - so many ill thought out and short sighted comments. Like Ive said on here before, if its such a rip off, dont buy insurance apart from TP motor cover, EL cover and stat inspection for LOLER and PUWER plant.
77
15/01/2021 11:02:26 6 2
bbc
I do hope that the Insurers will have to pay all the legal costs involved. Too often these guys try to get away with not paying hoping that that their clients are too small to challenge them in court. Well done Supreme Court Justtices.
78
15/01/2021 11:02:35 1 6
bbc
You do realise everyone will pay more in their insurance for a bunch of business so desperate for money because the government failed in their duty to them
125
15/01/2021 11:08:12 0 1
bbc
Monopoly rules prevent that from happening in the short term.
154
15/01/2021 11:11:14 1 1
bbc
Since when did the government have a duty to compensate private businesses (with money forcibly taken from tax payers) for business losses?
41
15/01/2021 10:57:22 34 79
bbc
You really don't understand Insurance do you?
79
15/01/2021 11:02:36 12 5
bbc
No it’s you that doesn’t understand the industry.
80
15/01/2021 11:02:59 1 3
bbc
Just hope insurance companies inform government who receives insurance handouts so any taxpayers Grant's etc given to these companies is reclaimed
1
15/01/2021 10:47:19 852 31
bbc
Quite right too.

It was scandalous, yet entirely predictable, that insurers tried to wriggle out of paying business interruption insurance risks. Especially the likes of Hiscox who had clear “disease” & “pandemic” cover in their policies yet still refused to pay out. Small businesses took out these often expensive policies in good faith and it’s disgusting that insurers tried to stiff them.
81
PCS
15/01/2021 11:03:15 316 22
bbc
In the dictionary under "Insurer" read "Bookie" both hate paying out!
172
15/01/2021 11:15:08 35 92
bbc
Love it when people who know nothing think they can have a valid comment. Insurance policies are contracts - they should ONLY pay out if the wording says so. As a broker I know FOR A FACT that before January virtually no clients ANYWHERE asked if a global pandemic would be covered. The ONLY reason anyone will get ANY pay out is because there is wiggle room in the wordings to allow it!
202
15/01/2021 11:19:40 24 3
bbc
What nonsense....bookmakers have clearly defined rules, if you don’t know them then educate yourself!
318
15/01/2021 11:42:34 11 2
bbc
I've always considered insurance to be a form of gambling, but with the "luck" reversed. You are placing a bet that a "bad thing" will happen to you. If you are unlucky and that "bad thing" happens, you "win" and there is a payout. If you are lucky, the "bad thing" doesn't happen, so you "lose" and don't get the payout.
556
15/01/2021 12:27:25 9 2
bbc
Indeed.

I've been paying for building/contents insurance since January 1988, yet I've only ever made one claim in my entire life (£500 for roof damage during 1989's storms), so insurance companies have made £1000s out of me since then.

We don't pay for insurance to fill their greedy pockets, we pay to make sure we can cover the costs of the unexpected, so genuine payouts should be guaranteed.
696
15/01/2021 12:58:51 2 1
bbc
Don't forget Ryan Air.
873
15/01/2021 13:45:56 2 0
bbc
It's obvious you are shooting from the hip, rather like a certain blond puff-ball (thankyou, The Times!). Bookies have rules and apply them both ways. I worked in and around the insurance industry for around 40 years and have found far more integrity in the bookies I have dealt with!
82
15/01/2021 11:03:15 0 4
bbc
Premiums will rise like they did after 9/11 through the roof.
115
15/01/2021 11:07:28 0 1
bbc
I'm still waiting for the abolishment of free bank accounts after we were told would happen after PPI.
83
15/01/2021 11:03:16 2 2
bbc
This is great if these businesses get all their losses paid for through their insurance claims...however... does that mean that they will now pay back the busines rates they didnt have to pay? and the interest free loans and the furlough payments they've paid to themselves as earnings and all the other relief they have had too?
113
15/01/2021 11:07:03 2 1
bbc
No chance! Given all the freebie handouts that you've noted, alongside countless others, the majority of businesses' demonstrable losses will likely be tiny.

Presumably that's the only reason the insurer's allowed the government (via the FCA) to bring the case. If had the potential to cost the insurers more than loose change Bojo would have had it stopped.
53
MVS
15/01/2021 10:58:49 23 10
bbc
The complete lack of understanding of the insurance industry shown by so many posting on here, beggars belief.
The insurance industry provides almost all of us with the ability to carry out much of our lives without having to fear the financial ruin of an accident.
Sometimes insurance companies get stuff a bit wrong, but 99% of the time they are very good at looking after their customers.
84
15/01/2021 11:03:16 11 12
bbc
And which insurance company do you work for pray? Most people's experience is that insurance companies are very bad at looking after their customers 99% of the time.
111
15/01/2021 11:06:55 1 5
bbc
Congratulations for proving MVS's point so elequantly
489
15/01/2021 12:12:59 3 1
bbc
I must be the 1% then.

I have not often needed to make a claim. When I have, they paid up.

I hear the same about travel companies, but got my money back in about 14 days.
85
15/01/2021 11:03:19 1 3
bbc
Proper order they should pay. It's scandalous that businesses pay huge insurance premiums for cover and peace of mind and then when they make a legitimate claim the Insurance Companies look for every excuse and loophole to not pay out. Where a policy explicitly covers pandemics and deceases impacting business it should not even be a debate. The fat cat insurers are an absolute disgrace.
338
15/01/2021 11:48:07 0 1
bbc
It's not a proper order against any entity other than the 6 insurers who participated, and in respect of anything other than the specific circumstances of the claim.
86
15/01/2021 11:03:25 3 3
bbc
It makes a change to see insurers failing to avoid paying out as we know they usually find any way to do so. Unfortunately, it does mean that their customers will be the ones funding these payouts. The insurers are just middlemen creaming off huge profits and will never be the ones paying out of their own pockets.
54
15/01/2021 10:58:56 19 16
bbc
Love all the posts here from the people who don't understand the first thing about insurance.
87
15/01/2021 11:03:32 4 2
bbc
QUite a lot of do, I suspect, and bear the scars of trying to deal with insurers who all have massive resources to try to fight claims.
88
15/01/2021 10:56:31 1 2
bbc
This is good, right and proper. That’s it!
89
15/01/2021 11:03:42 4 8
bbc
Good! Can’t stand insurers
If you feel that way maybe you should get yourself a conscience and resign ! Removed
90
15/01/2021 10:59:41 23 2
bbc
He said ‘worked’ as in past tense.
If you feel that way maybe you should get yourself a conscience and resign ! Removed
91
15/01/2021 11:03:44 10 3
bbc
Talking loud..... and saying nothing.....
92
Rob
15/01/2021 11:03:51 8 3
bbc
To those people complaining that their premium will go up to pay for this, ask yourselves what the bugger you think you're paying for.

Insurance policies that do not pay out when you need them to are simply a waste of money- a needless expense.

The next time you have a warehouse fire or get sued by a worker who broke his leg in an accident, by all means don't claim for the sake of everyone else.
71
15/01/2021 11:01:44 2 3
bbc
If renewal costs do increase there should be a price cap on any potential price increase. The insurance companies should not be allowed to recoup these covid losses from policy holders. Insurance should be affordable for all.
93
15/01/2021 11:04:00 5 3
bbc
Your understanding of insurance is non existent !
38
15/01/2021 10:48:18 15 3
bbc
This is an incredibly important ruling, beeb.

I mean this most sincerely - I really hope this reduces the "desperation" of furlough fraud that we've been hearing about.

I own a business and we have been trading "above board" at all times using cash flow only. We did it the honest way.
94
15/01/2021 11:04:04 12 1
bbc
I don't think the majority of furlough fraud comes from desperation. I could be wrong and overly pessimistic, but I think fraud is mostly opportistic and malicious rather than a result of desperation.
707
15/01/2021 13:02:11 0 1
bbc
That's why people go into business. Rarely for altruistic reasons. I speak from experience as an investigator.
53
MVS
15/01/2021 10:58:49 23 10
bbc
The complete lack of understanding of the insurance industry shown by so many posting on here, beggars belief.
The insurance industry provides almost all of us with the ability to carry out much of our lives without having to fear the financial ruin of an accident.
Sometimes insurance companies get stuff a bit wrong, but 99% of the time they are very good at looking after their customers.
95
15/01/2021 11:04:04 3 3
bbc
Many thanks for your input Mr Hiscox.
96
15/01/2021 11:04:20 4 3
bbc
The very reason this went to court, is because business interruption was built with property damage in mind, the extras including disease were for window dressing, as effectively a sales tool, and in some insurers instances, specified non prevalent diseases - this is not about insurers trying to 'get out of a claim'.
146
15/01/2021 11:10:45 0 2
bbc
It is about insurers trying to avoid paying a claim.
97
15/01/2021 11:04:20 1 4
bbc
Watch out, I've been warned that the insurance companies are putting a cap of £25K on all payouts. Most businesses will have lost much more than that (it's been nearly a year).
107
15/01/2021 11:06:26 4 2
bbc
Well they can't just add a cap. Depends on what your policy said.
53
MVS
15/01/2021 10:58:49 23 10
bbc
The complete lack of understanding of the insurance industry shown by so many posting on here, beggars belief.
The insurance industry provides almost all of us with the ability to carry out much of our lives without having to fear the financial ruin of an accident.
Sometimes insurance companies get stuff a bit wrong, but 99% of the time they are very good at looking after their customers.
98
15/01/2021 11:04:21 2 6
bbc
A "bit" wrong? Several hundred millions' worth of wrong is more than a "bit" to me. They are sucm.
999
15/01/2021 14:33:44 1 0
bbc
Many claims are handled just fine. This massive *class of* claim was not, and only on final appeal was the decision made in the claimants' favour.

The losers in this case are you and me, as our pensions funds are invested in the insurance companies shares.

The winners are you and me, as these businesses continue to provide their services, jobs, taxes, and reduce their demand on taxes paid.
71
15/01/2021 11:01:44 2 3
bbc
If renewal costs do increase there should be a price cap on any potential price increase. The insurance companies should not be allowed to recoup these covid losses from policy holders. Insurance should be affordable for all.
99
15/01/2021 11:04:27 1 1
bbc
If the likelihood of something happening goes up, so do premiums, right? I'd be surprised if the premiums didn't raise sharply for this particular type of cover.
54
15/01/2021 10:58:56 19 16
bbc
Love all the posts here from the people who don't understand the first thing about insurance.
100
15/01/2021 11:04:28 1 3
bbc
What like you...
104
15/01/2021 11:05:50 1 4
bbc
Hardly. Almost 40 years in the business.