Covid-19: UK sees over 80,000 excess deaths during pandemic
22/12/2020 | news | health | 1,836
The UK is continuing to see more deaths than expected for this time of year, ONS data shows.
1
22/12/2020 13:42:18 16 25
bbc
Christmas is not an excuse to break the rules. Anyone who does should be locked up and the key thrown away.
Thanks, Hitler. Good to know. Removed
13
22/12/2020 13:47:26 9 7
bbc
Get a grip and do some research instead of swallowing all you are being told by the cowardly and incompetent media and government. Far more harm caused by lockdowns and tiers. You can not hide from a virus so should be protecting the vulnerable and letting the vast majority get on with their lives.
22/12/2020 19:05:11 1 0
bbc
we wont be seeing much more of Boris, Hancock, Whitty and Vallance then after Christmas. Probably a good thing as they are the reason the UK is in such a mess.
2
22/12/2020 13:43:50 390 23
bbc
Cant wait for the inevitable inquest in to how this has been handled by both the media and government, really hope people are held accountable.
32
22/12/2020 13:51:36 278 16
bbc
The triumph of hope over experience. We need to stop hoping elected officials will be held accountable for their policies and begin building a system in which they are
58
22/12/2020 13:56:21 20 40
bbc
What exactly are the media responsible for again? Only people to blame are the politicians
66
22/12/2020 13:57:42 19 2
bbc
I would echo your sentiments completely but if you think there'll be any accountability then you haven't been paying attention.
67
22/12/2020 13:57:51 18 14
bbc
We seem to be doing better than Belgium, Italy and Spain though - this is far from over
73
22/12/2020 13:59:36 27 6
bbc
Ha. Nice one. All BoJo has to do is resign and then, like Cameron with Brexit, its someone else's problem. Off to write his biography and his column. That's why they talk in meaningless soundbites, its none committal.
95
22/12/2020 14:03:11 15 30
bbc
Glad you included the media to accountability. As for example this article has a misleading title. The over 80,000 deaths includes the 67000 from covid; so in reality there has been an excess of 13000 deaths not accounted for. It's not good news, but will keep the anxiety level down in these difficult times.
165
22/12/2020 14:09:29 30 13
bbc
I agree the media and government handled this really badly, but there is ultimately only one reason this is spreading, and that’s the public.
167
Ron
22/12/2020 14:37:22 15 18
bbc
There are three Governments on the mainland. The percentage excess death rate in Wales has been higher than in England since July.

In the week referred to above it was 25% higher than England and 200% higher than London. In the week before, Wales was 54% above England and 600% higher than London.

It wasn't Wales Scotland and England that caused this it was virus that which mutated in China.
205
22/12/2020 14:45:18 18 5
bbc
When you say ‘people’ to be held accountable, I assume you include all those who felt that common-sense actions did not apply to them.
299
PCS
22/12/2020 15:02:32 9 8
bbc
Held accountable! You're being delusional remember millions of english folk voted for Boris Inc. They don't give a flying XXXX that they have the blood of thousands' on their hands! The same folk will probably vote them back in!!!!
324
22/12/2020 15:06:53 2 5
bbc
The government haven't given any evidence for their restrictions on civil liberties, only wild projections that have been debunked soon after.

Peru had the strictest lockdown and no effect on mortality.
380
22/12/2020 15:11:56 4 3
bbc
They will just lie. It’s the only thing they are good at!
420
22/12/2020 15:24:26 3 1
bbc
It would be great to know this.

But the reality of any enquiry will be that it will take years to complete, at huge cost to already bled-dry taxpayers and even in the unlikely event that it finds any fault or failure at an official level; the people concerned will have moved on from their current roles, so any censure against them will be too late to have any impact.
426
22/12/2020 15:25:21 9 3
bbc
The media have been an absolute disgrace......scaremongering at every opportunity.....disgusting parasites!!!!!!!!!!!!!
428
DG
22/12/2020 15:25:55 10 1
bbc
Whilst an inquest is required, it must be noted that we would all be in a better place if so many had not repeatedly broken the rules. No Gov or organisation can manage the pure arrogance of some people. And, it only takes a few to spread the virus.
435
22/12/2020 15:27:52 2 3
bbc
Yeah the right wing media have played down the crisis and the mail has even encouraged people to hug their granparents! They made it their crusade and now look where that will get us.
459
22/12/2020 15:33:37 2 3
bbc
You do appreciate that all elected officials and the media are always held to account. When an election or referendum is called, vote. As for media , its a voluntary activity, just dont read articles you don't agree with. Simples.
465
22/12/2020 15:32:24 1 1
bbc
They're in it together....this is about money and control...governments worldwide throw billions at this and guess what? They just print more money!!
535
22/12/2020 15:50:50 1 1
bbc
You mean put all the people who broke the rules in jail. How can you blame the Gov when the people do not do as they should. The Gov do not infect the people the people do it themselves and then blame everybody else.
540
22/12/2020 15:51:56 0 0
bbc
This needs to be initiated by the Good Law Project. They are the only group who are in a position to hold politicians truly accountable.
547
22/12/2020 15:51:33 2 0
bbc
Inevitable whitewash you mean.
3
22/12/2020 13:44:09 22 20
bbc
These numbers are beyond acceptable and are only going to increase significantly as the current high number of cases works its way through. The gov has to accept responsibility.
24
22/12/2020 13:50:13 19 7
bbc
No. People need to accept responsibility - and I unfortunately too many people haven't taken this seriously from the start - through mass groupings, parties, marches etc

The government have been broadly clear with their advice on hygiene. People who blame the government are like children and take no personal responsibility for their actions.
56
22/12/2020 13:55:57 1 2
bbc
Address your complaints and criticisms to the numpties who continue to spread the virus.

People travelling 200miles from tier 3 areas to tier 1 areas as reported just for a drink in a pub. People moving out of York for the same reason.

Thankfully the Police are stamping down on this. Perhaps cell time to supplement the fines might need to be considered for some of the more excessive cases.
4
22/12/2020 13:44:16 11 18
bbc
No matter which of the three figures you look at, it all makes grim reading.
152
22/12/2020 14:01:20 1 5
bbc
Not that grim when you consider it's only 0.12% of the population, and that about 615,000 die every year. But, don't let these FACTS stop you feeling bad.
5
22/12/2020 13:44:56 132 89
bbc
One of the reasons that death rates are increasing (albeit gradually) year on year is due to the population explosion in the U.K. in recent years. In the 1980s there were 56m in the country - now almost 70m - a growth of 25% in little more than 3 decades. So naturally a higher volume of deaths, year on year, will follow.
19
22/12/2020 13:48:49 133 85
bbc
Utter nonsense. The stats show a sharp rise this year.
26
22/12/2020 13:50:27 32 20
bbc
This is 80k more deaths this year than the average of the last five years.

Nothing to do with population growth and everything to do with an inept response to a crisis from our amateurish and incompetent government.
71
22/12/2020 13:58:46 23 12
bbc
But is the population increase has been in the last 40 years, then the percentage of people over 40 will have dropped substantially. The level of elderly deaths will not have been impacted by the births of the young.

I take it maths and statistics along with analysis isn't your strongest suit.
317
22/12/2020 15:05:36 3 0
bbc
In which case the figures should be re-shown as a proportion of the population. Then we'll get a fairer reflection of your hypothesis.
609
22/12/2020 16:02:26 2 3
bbc
True/not true. Death rates fell dramatically 20 years ago when the flu jab came in. Not really a surprise that those very old, 'walking dead', got clobbered by a flu type disease with no vaccine
719
22/12/2020 16:16:50 1 0
bbc
I'm amazed by how you have chosen to advertise your stupidity by posting that comnent. Death rate, pal. PERCENTAGE OF POPULATION, however big or small that population. See?
(Probably not)
823
22/12/2020 16:45:21 0 0
bbc
You do know that excess deaths are based on a baseline adjusted for population change?

Here's a helpful link (if the BBC allows such things)

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps#z-scores-by-country
950
dan
22/12/2020 17:03:44 2 0
bbc
True.
So let's do a proper breakdown of the numbers
Deaths in 2019: 530,841.
Deaths (based on 80k excess deaths) in 2020: 610,000
So a 15% rise in deaths year on year
UK population in 2019 66.5mil
UK population in 2020 67.9mil
So a 2% rise in population year on year

15%>>>2%.
To try to claim the spike in death rates this year is due to population growth is frankly absurd.
22/12/2020 17:23:14 2 0
bbc
You are confusing rate of deaths with number of deaths. This is why we have scientists and don't leave the analysis to HYS posters
22/12/2020 18:16:42 0 0
bbc
Wait, wait, wait. So people born in in either March or November in the in the 1950 and 1960 have suddenly decided to die becuase of ... let me guess .. immigration since the 1980s? Please tell me your trying to make a different, less insane point.
23/12/2020 01:59:53 0 0
bbc
"a growth of 25% in little more than 3 decades"

Do you realize that's less than 1% per year?

insignificant relative to the ~17% excess deaths this year.
1
22/12/2020 13:42:18 16 25
bbc
Christmas is not an excuse to break the rules. Anyone who does should be locked up and the key thrown away.
Thanks, Hitler. Good to know. Removed
25
22/12/2020 13:50:14 6 3
bbc
Next they'll be shooting people for not wearing a mask in Tescos.
7
22/12/2020 13:45:17 302 59
bbc
What seems to be eye-catching on that graph is the chunk of Covid deaths that actually are not excess, and the large grey area should serve as a reminder that Covid is not the only cause of death, which seems to have been forgotten.
49
22/12/2020 13:54:14 174 204
bbc
Correct BSUB.
Clear from the graph that the "deadly second wave" is little more than a ripple. Time to stop this madness.
239
22/12/2020 14:51:57 38 8
bbc
Not sure anyone has forgotten that though. COVID deaths are in addition to the usual expected deaths - hence the use of excess deaths as a key indicator. No one is suggesting people have stopped dying of other causes ??
425
22/12/2020 15:25:16 21 8
bbc
"the chunk of Covid deaths that actually are not excess" - the correct way to look at it is that precuations against Covid also reduce fatalities from other communicable diseases (notably, influenza).
So the red bit below the dotted line represents where social distancing has saved lives from influenza etc. However, Covid has more than offset this.
437
22/12/2020 15:28:50 5 3
bbc
The large grey area is thought to be Covid but because of lack of testing not recorded as such. That's why excess deaths are mention in an article on Covid.

Also the overlap of red actually shows that underlying non-Covid deaths are probably BELOW the background death rate which implies that deaths from Covid are even higher than the excess deaths tally of 80,000.
446
22/12/2020 15:30:38 3 1
bbc
I don't think anyone has yet claimed to be working on a cure for ageing
559
22/12/2020 15:54:21 4 1
bbc
Generally , it's old age. in this case corona was the proximate reason in a small number of cases - around 10%
668
22/12/2020 16:13:50 1 2
bbc
It also does not give a clear picture of a true death from covid as it is recorded as mentioned on the death certificate and only a positive test but they could have no symptom's and die of a heart attack
681
22/12/2020 16:08:38 0 0
bbc
Is stating the very obvious a fatal condition, do you think?
707
22/12/2020 16:21:31 1 2
bbc
Also worth noticing that this is compared to the average over the last five years. How does it compare to the worst of those years? A five year average is great but if we've had 4 extraordinarily low years amongst them then should we be comparing to something else?
951
VoR
22/12/2020 17:03:54 1 0
bbc
Flu is often driving up deaths at this time of year, but this year flu deaths are low because of the Southern hemisphere having locked down in their winter, which then benefits us in our winter, in the form of lower UK flu deaths.

So I'd say the graph is pretty reasonable, although your point is valid.
22/12/2020 17:22:08 0 1
bbc
That "large chunk of grey" is below the 5 year average.

What remains to be seen is the cause of the blue areas. Nowhere near as large as Covid death rate, but perhaps an indication of the strain that the NHS has been under.
Mo
22/12/2020 18:34:49 0 0
bbc
Give it a week or two when the 2nd wave deaths start to figure.
22/12/2020 18:53:06 0 0
bbc
If vulnerable people die from Covid, they won't die from something else so excess deaths can understate Covid deaths.
However, the lack of spare capacity in the NHS (about the worst in Europe) has increased other (non-Covid) deaths.
Other factors include higher uptake on flu jabs and the wearing of masks/social distancing reducing non-Covid disease.
But 81,000 is a fearful figure.
Bob
22/12/2020 20:08:35 0 0
bbc
How on earth does this illogical comment one of the top rated comments?

Take away the COVID deaths. Are deaths above or below the line/grey area? Answer is they're below.

To say that COVID deaths are not excess is a disgrace to all those who died.
22/12/2020 20:24:01 0 0
bbc
I think you have failed to understand what is a straight-forward graph!
22/12/2020 21:29:45 0 0
bbc
Agreed. Mis-reporting is causing the panic
22/12/2020 21:40:26 0 0
bbc
perhaps not using the last 5 year average but the last 20 years so we get the previous bad years included not just the last 5 light years ?
8
22/12/2020 13:45:49 21 15
bbc
Congratulations BBC, that’s a fantastic way to bamboozle.
Now break it down it layman’s terms so people can clearly see the truth.
178
22/12/2020 14:39:40 12 11
bbc
The truth is the UK has one of the worse death rates in the world and the hardest hit economy in the G7 leading group nations.

Incompetent Government.
884
22/12/2020 16:54:16 0 0
bbc
?? I thought they had done a good job of explaining it in layman's terms.
9
22/12/2020 13:45:49 346 193
bbc
I have had two elderly distant relatives die and had 'Corona' on their death certificates.
Their relatives are disputing this. They didn't 'die' of C19. They happened to be tested in the old folks home and had 'C19' with no symptoms.

What they DID have due to their 90+ ages were dementia, lots of issues and in one case terminal cancer due to a life of smoking.

Lies, damned lies and statistics.
79
22/12/2020 14:01:29 302 192
bbc
Mate your anecdotal evidence of a friend of a friend (or relative of a relative) means nothing. I have 2 relatives who died in care homes during this and didn't have C19 on their death certificates even though one died in a covid isolation ward.

Stop muddying the waters with what could easily be your own lie and misinformation, it helps no one
142
22/12/2020 14:08:32 69 32
bbc
That's what excess deaths show, doofus. It's how many extra people have died than in a typical year (80K). Your anecdote is irrelevant, and I can't believe there are so many stupid people that they've upvoted it.
148
22/12/2020 13:58:39 20 31
bbc
Naughty!

The BJ and Hancock propaganda machine doesn't want people telling stories like this: it's bad for dictatorship.
149
22/12/2020 13:59:27 41 18
bbc
Sorry but anyone who understands how deaths are classified knows this is a bare-faced lie. Which hospital? Name names. This would be malpractice by the coroner.
158
22/12/2020 14:06:20 20 22
bbc
Would you be less insensitive and dismissive about the cause of death potentially being covid if they weren’t “distant” relatives?
195
22/12/2020 14:42:38 46 20
bbc
Whatever they died from we're still heading for 100,000 excess deaths this year compared to the average for the past 10 years. Explain that one away as conspiracy matey!
215
22/12/2020 14:47:06 34 6
bbc
That’s the difference between single data references and statistics. It’s easy to find data which buck the trend. The important thing is the trend

We used to justifiably criticise people who claimed that smoking didn’t cause cancer because “My 100 year-old granny has smoked 80 a day all her life and is as fit as a lop”

So don’t be surprised (or offended) if you are criticised following your loss
217
22/12/2020 14:47:45 30 3
bbc
I am very sorry for your loss. The excess deaths number is the key output here. This is the best comparison of how many people have died this year compared to how many people “normally” die in an average year. This takes away the factors of people being either incorrectly diagnosed as dying of COVID, or incorrectly as not of COVID.
225
22/12/2020 14:49:32 15 9
bbc
Sounds like made-up denialist nonsense to me. Even if some mistakes have been made on death certificates it doesn't change the bigger picture of excess deaths (and no - they aren't all mental health suicides etc - the Samaritans have already released info to say there was no significant change in suicide rates).
309
22/12/2020 15:04:19 15 3
bbc
So you're in a better position to say what your "distant relatives" died of than the person who drew up their death certificate? That's good to know. Since you have this sixth sense, perhaps you could explain what the 80,000 extra deaths this year were caused by. The fact that these deaths occurred at the same time as the coronavirus is just a coincidence, right?
394
OFH
22/12/2020 15:18:17 8 1
bbc
444
22/12/2020 15:30:07 3 1
bbc
My friend slipped on a banana and found a winning lottery ticket, it happened every Saturday for 6 months and now he is Britain’s richest man
502
22/12/2020 15:43:47 1 2
bbc
Terminal cancer due to a lifetime of smoking? 90+ age?? LOL
532
22/12/2020 15:49:39 4 1
bbc
Regardless of your vague "fact", the fact that you and other conspiracy theorists are ignoring are the 80k excess deaths in a year when we've been on near permanent lockdown of one kind or another since March. When was the death rate normal? After we came out of lockdown - i.e. the initial lockdown was a success until the numbers increased again. How can you not see that?
682
22/12/2020 16:09:29 1 0
bbc
TRILL ALERT! TROLL ALERT!
769
22/12/2020 16:35:07 1 0
bbc
None of hich influences the 'excess deaths' figure.
870
22/12/2020 16:52:42 1 1
bbc
Stop making up stuff for likes on the Internet.
905
22/12/2020 16:57:16 1 0
bbc
I suspect the lies are coming from you
22/12/2020 17:44:46 0 0
bbc
You're making it up, aren't you?
22/12/2020 18:37:52 1 0
bbc
"I have had two elderly distant relatives die and had 'Corona' on their death certificates.
Their relatives are disputing this."

I don't believe you. There is no reason to dispute the cause of death.
22/12/2020 18:44:18 0 0
bbc
"I have had two elderly distant relatives"

My second cousin's next door neighbour's best friend died in a morris dancing accident and the cause of death was recorded as 'being a silly billy'. His vet's sister in law is disputing it.
22/12/2020 18:58:49 0 0
bbc
Anacdotes can be highly misleading.
Human error does occur but doctors aren't fools.
Frankly, I find your stories less than credible. Very few elderly have asymptomatic Covid.
10
22/12/2020 13:45:59 44 41
bbc
Speak to funeral directors, undertakers etc. and they will tell you they're not any busier than before the plandemic. Go figure......
28
22/12/2020 13:51:09 33 17
bbc
nonesense if not pure lies
41
22/12/2020 13:53:16 12 8
bbc
Yet an article on here a month ago was about a cemetery digging graves in shifts and was struggling to keep up. So not sure who you have been talking to
61
22/12/2020 13:56:44 7 7
bbc
and yet here in Buckinghamshire you will find exactly the opposite.

So where do you get your so called information?
141
22/12/2020 14:08:20 5 3
bbc
And Trump won the election. That's what you were going to say next, right?
168
22/12/2020 14:37:22 4 3
bbc
I spoke to one and he said they have been flat out this year
11
alf
22/12/2020 13:46:21 9 23
bbc
To put this into some perspective, 70,000 civilians were killed in the UK in World War 2 - that's 70,000 during the whole 5 year period of the war. This year alone, we have lost 10,000 more people than that to Covid.
22
22/12/2020 13:49:51 16 6
bbc
Nonsense, the majority of those were with people having underlying issues and were already dying. Mortality for people with no health issues is negligible. Those stats are "with" covid and not "of" covid.
38
22/12/2020 13:52:49 6 4
bbc
No we haven't! They are putting Covid on everything, that isn't what kills you it's just a related symptim. I do wish people would wake up to this nonsense.
111
22/12/2020 13:50:23 0 1
bbc
Nope.
113
22/12/2020 13:56:45 2 3
bbc
No! The proper perspective is that about 615,000 people die in the UK every year.

You see, things don't look nearly so bad when one is honest.
151
22/12/2020 14:00:39 1 2
bbc
But the average age of those that died in WWII wasn't 82 was it?
12
22/12/2020 13:47:17 19 4
bbc
Lots of different numbers that are intended to add context to our situation; it’s interesting, yet people will only pick up on the ones that support their opinion and disregard the rest...
76
22/12/2020 14:00:18 10 4
bbc
That is if they actually make the effort to understand any of the data and analyse it to grasp the nuances.

Too many years of poor education/learning being reflected in the Comments here.
1
22/12/2020 13:42:18 16 25
bbc
Christmas is not an excuse to break the rules. Anyone who does should be locked up and the key thrown away.
13
22/12/2020 13:47:26 9 7
bbc
Get a grip and do some research instead of swallowing all you are being told by the cowardly and incompetent media and government. Far more harm caused by lockdowns and tiers. You can not hide from a virus so should be protecting the vulnerable and letting the vast majority get on with their lives.
14
22/12/2020 13:47:59 10 14
bbc
With all those excess deaths Bojo et al position is untenable they should all fall on their swords and have a GE by iphone. He made a taytotal bollix of Brexit and now he made a taytotal bollix of cov-19 by giving wee jobs and PPE contracts to his incompetent pals. Thank goodness we in Ireland had a miles better government and public health policy.
31
22/12/2020 13:51:32 3 3
bbc
That's hilarious
15
22/12/2020 13:48:04 518 61
bbc
Patel clamed today that the government were 'always ahead of the curve' as far as their response to Covid.

How minister can come out with lies like that and keep a straight face I'll never know.

Their response has been woeful & reactionary. They have never acted with any foresight nor had any plans for what might happen. They cannot be allowed to re-write recent history by spinning it like this.
59
22/12/2020 13:56:23 85 32
bbc
Well this is traditionally how governments have operated, so why change now.
143
22/12/2020 14:08:38 43 10
bbc
This country's response to the pandemic has been absolutely diabolical. The blame goes beyond the PM and Cabinet and also towards Whitehall and the scientific advisors (see SAGE papers from March). Lessons need to be learned from this economic and public health disaster. The shocking performance has not only destroyed our international standing but may well lead to the break up of the UK.
274
22/12/2020 14:59:19 54 4
bbc
And she isn’t a bully - because BJ says she isn’t, evidence never matters as they are above accountability, great job to have were loyalty matters more than capability
282
22/12/2020 15:00:26 56 4
bbc
Their attitude to Covid is exactly the same as their attitude to Brexit - just hope everything turns out okay without planning anything. Blame others when things go wrong and deny all facts that don't suit their political aims.
318
22/12/2020 15:05:50 38 4
bbc
BS Britain, where 2+2=5, or 3 (depending on which way suits the Johnson and co. narrative).
340
22/12/2020 15:09:01 9 10
bbc
not sure what the issue is

everyone will vote for them again next time
362
22/12/2020 15:12:00 4 29
bbc
Stop talking nonsense.
369
22/12/2020 15:13:20 4 47
bbc
Many would argue they have done too much & over-reacted . They argue they have tried to keep the economy going as much as possible (a good intent). Any idiot can shut us down and save lives but that costs jobs, businesses & leads to economic collapse. I would argue they have not kept business open enough, have listened to scientists too much and have let the tail wag the dog
390
22/12/2020 15:17:44 2 0
bbc
That's how they become politicians
406
22/12/2020 15:20:47 17 0
bbc
You can always tell when she is telling lies by watching her eyes, the same with Boris. Their body language says the opposite to the words of crap coming out of the mouths. This is a populist reactionary government which is not what we need at any time but in a pandemic it magnifies there inadequacies 100 fold.
422
22/12/2020 15:24:36 11 0
bbc
Never trust or listen to anything a bully says !!!
496
22/12/2020 15:42:28 9 0
bbc
?? Patel just another bojo puppet as she crap as Home Secretary also / as for being ahead of curve we never act straight away sorry to say it will get worse b4 it gets better
543
22/12/2020 15:52:22 1 12
bbc
I see that you and your sort have used your method of fraudulently manufacturing upticks again.
Does the BBC know about this?
Do they care?
553
22/12/2020 15:53:52 1 5
bbc
They have been lying all along. How many if these deaths were actually & truly because of Covid 19
582
22/12/2020 15:57:40 2 6
bbc
I wonder what your job is? Makes me laugh how easy everyone things running a country is. I doubt you’d last 2 days.
639
22/12/2020 16:05:58 6 0
bbc
Because Patel assumes she's never going to face any consequences for her lies. That is how!
706
22/12/2020 16:21:31 0 0
bbc
Patel? Patel? No, you lost me. Who is Patel? Never heard of anyone in government with that name. Oh, wait a minute there was that bully. Is it her? What she look like? Never seen her.
728
22/12/2020 16:27:05 2 4
bbc
Their response has been supported at every step by the Opposition.
733
22/12/2020 16:28:43 5 0
bbc
Another example was Shapps last night he said the 500 or so lorries queuing on the Motorway were now (yesterday evening) down to 150. Utter rubbish as there were over 1500 as of lunchtime today.
763
22/12/2020 16:33:48 3 0
bbc
They can say this with a straight face (well, maybe not in Patel's case) because they're not very bright and they believe it or at least believe their thick subjects will. Sadly they're not entirely wrong.
802
22/12/2020 16:40:58 4 1
bbc
I'd love to blame the government too, really I would, I am no Boris fan or Tory, but regardless of how they reacted, if people had used their nowse and just been sensible from the start, not matter what the government was saying, we wouldn't be in this position now. It's people being bloody minded or just thick that has out us here. People have to use their own judgement, simple as.
834
22/12/2020 16:47:24 0 0
bbc
and you know all this how?
898
22/12/2020 16:56:01 7 0
bbc
Patel is a dreadful person, a bully and always on the make. Doing business for her family whilst on the taxpayers pound. her fabulously wealthy family built their business after being given asylum in the UK, Asylum she will not grant to others. She is a typical Tory, they are either Toffs or Spivs
900
22/12/2020 16:56:44 0 0
bbc
even if you leave things to luck you can get it right 50% of the time
939
VoR
22/12/2020 17:01:48 5 0
bbc
She is a disgrace. It's just one flaw after another being revealed. But Boris won't mind as long as she has personal loyalty to him (which to be honest I wouldn't count on either).
977
22/12/2020 17:09:41 0 2
bbc
No worse than any other! Damned if they do and damned if they don’t. Tell you what let’s shut everything down until it’s gone away and see where that leads us. Somewhere down the line we’ll all be picking up a very big bill for this.
22/12/2020 17:19:15 4 0
bbc
Never trust a Tory!

At least Sturgeon has said that if she had her time again, she would act sooner and harder.
BOF
22/12/2020 17:22:40 2 0
bbc
Because if ministers say thing like that with a straight face some gormless will believe them and to the rest of us, in imitation of Mr Putin, they are saying “I know you don’t believe me but it is to make you understand that I am in power and can say and do as I like”
22/12/2020 17:22:51 2 0
bbc
I am afraid we deserve them. We voted for them in despite knowing fully well that they were not trustworthy. And we are also too placid to get out and demonstrate for their removal. Three more years of lockdown before our liberation.
22/12/2020 17:50:58 2 0
bbc
Steady on now, the bully's going to be the clown's replacement.
22/12/2020 18:07:49 2 0
bbc
There are liars in all walks of life. Why the UK public keep enthusiastically voting for them is the real question. Do they know they're liars and don't care, or can they simply not judge characters?
16
22/12/2020 13:48:39 184 93
bbc
Many of those who died did so with COVID not because of it. I know from personal experience. A relative died of septicaemia related to end stage leukaemia but was added to the COVID death stats when she contracted the virus days before her predicted
death.
120
22/12/2020 14:06:01 191 29
bbc
You do realise these figures are about excess deaths?
155
22/12/2020 14:09:44 10 18
bbc
Perhaps Covid contributed to or accelerated that death. Then can include as a Covid death.
355
22/12/2020 15:11:30 5 10
bbc
the sample size is 7 billion

there's going to be +/- % error
443
22/12/2020 15:29:30 20 8
bbc
Her death would been counted as a death with 28 days of a first positive test, but probably not as a death with covid on the death certificate. Conversely, a death of covid 29 days after their first positive test would be the other way round.

It's very clear from the excess mortality figures that deaths from covid (even by death certificate) have been *under*-reported, especially March to May.
683
22/12/2020 16:11:02 2 1
bbc
I see. You think you can only for from one thing at a time?
Don't apply for a job as a medic. We cured his cancer, but he bled out!
751
22/12/2020 16:31:32 5 3
bbc
I've heard many almost identical 'personal stories' about how some distant relative died and it was wrongly attributed to Covid-19.

All to undermine the effort to fight the disease.
865
22/12/2020 16:52:01 4 1
bbc
that's irrelevant, this is about Excess deaths, not what it did or didn't say on the certificate. Don't you get that???
915
22/12/2020 16:58:39 1 0
bbc
and therefore Covid-19 was mentioned on the death certificate, what is your problem?
17
22/12/2020 13:48:39 5 7
bbc
I'd argue having two numbers closer together 79,351 and 81,361 is more accurate than the "outlier" of 67,616. So official figure is probably short by about 13,400.
18
22/12/2020 13:48:44 95 74
bbc
When this is all over we will probably realise that removing liberties and destroying small businesses does more damage than COVID ever could have. The whole thing stinks... why couldn’t we just be treated like adults rather than kids. If people want to risk their own lives let them.
34
22/12/2020 13:51:52 73 63
bbc
Because as the irresponsible show, its not just their lives they are risking. Thinking like that is why we have almost 70,000 excess deaths from covid!!
160
22/12/2020 14:10:21 5 4
bbc
Perhaps when Johnson said F' Business was the only time he has ever knowingly told the truth.
370
22/12/2020 15:13:25 4 6
bbc
please print this out:

the government does not know what it's doing

when are we going to stop taking any notice of what they say?
524
22/12/2020 15:48:23 1 4
bbc
Snowflake generation
692
22/12/2020 16:18:51 1 2
bbc
We should be allowed our freedom covid a smokescreen it about powerful governments want to cripple us for a referendum to leave EU
978
22/12/2020 17:09:45 1 0
bbc
People must be free to risk their own lives. I used to free climb mountains and ride racing motorbikes, if I fell off either and got killed that would have been on me.

People must not be free to risk other peoples lives. I can't dangle you off a cliff and invite you to climb down.
22/12/2020 22:12:40 0 0
bbc
Selfish, greedy, Tory voting, Brexit loving loser. I hope you lose everything.
22/12/2020 23:01:03 0 0
bbc
Do you know 100% COVID won’t kill you? If you do then do you know 100% you won’t pass it on to someone it will kill.
5
22/12/2020 13:44:56 132 89
bbc
One of the reasons that death rates are increasing (albeit gradually) year on year is due to the population explosion in the U.K. in recent years. In the 1980s there were 56m in the country - now almost 70m - a growth of 25% in little more than 3 decades. So naturally a higher volume of deaths, year on year, will follow.
19
22/12/2020 13:48:49 133 85
bbc
Utter nonsense. The stats show a sharp rise this year.
257
22/12/2020 14:55:29 12 17
bbc
Average age of those dying is over 80. Old people die. Wasn't long ago most wouldn't live to 80. Those people dying now are not going to be around to die next year or the year after, so death rates will drop and average out, after all we are looking at averages here! The effects of lockdown will last 2 or more generations. This mass hysteria will cost more lives than saved.
488
22/12/2020 15:40:25 1 4
bbc
But not from Covid-19
799
Cjo
22/12/2020 16:40:45 0 2
bbc
The stats show we have had less deaths this year than each year of the last five..
rob
22/12/2020 17:39:52 1 0
bbc
Actually they don't check the ONS, last year there was 530,841deaths (in England and Wales alone not ALL UK), this year according to the article at the top is 524,000,(and that's for ALL the UK) Now I appreciate that it is not the end of the year, but it is highly unlikely, that in the remainder there will be a massive rise in death rates.
22/12/2020 18:33:12 0 0
bbc
They don't if you take the average deaths at this time of year over the last 10 years.
22/12/2020 19:17:09 0 0
bbc
Yes,the sharp rise is due to the extra number of people numbnuts!
22/12/2020 22:09:16 0 0
bbc
These idiots know no limits do they. Each need a high viral load, then see how they feel a few weeks later. No wonder this country is going to hell.
20
22/12/2020 13:49:04 133 94
bbc
Absolute nonsense this. It really proves that old adage that statistics can be manipulated to say what you like. Actually the overall death rate is L LOWER this year than last, they don't say that though because it doesn't fit the agenda.
29
22/12/2020 13:51:24 15 22
bbc
Good point, but it should be going up anyway as per my earlier point.
45
22/12/2020 13:53:37 11 2
bbc
based on what? I'm interested
48
22/12/2020 13:54:13 12 2
bbc
Evidence?
159
22/12/2020 14:07:26 10 3
bbc
How on earth can you interpret the data and conclude that death rates are lower this year than average? I can only see that the deaths from non-COVID factors are lower than average in Q4, but I'd assume this is the effect often mentioned by COVID deniers in lookdown 1 - that many of those who died in wave1 would have died later in the year. However, current COVID deaths exceed this reduction.
170
22/12/2020 14:37:55 26 4
bbc
Absolute lie. The Actuarial profession do their analysis looking at standardised populations, ie removing any differences in age/sex profile. Their statistics published today (and all year) show that this year's mortality rate is way higher than last year's.

You do no-one any favours by peddling your misinformation.
447
22/12/2020 15:30:58 9 2
bbc
Many illnesses haven’t been as bad because many (not you or your mob) have been wearing masks and staying in where possible. So there are fewer other illnesses such as flu this year
556
22/12/2020 15:54:17 4 0
bbc
Good statement, could you provide a link to the ONS data that shows this? Last time I looked they were showing approaching 80,000 extra deaths this year compared to the 5 year average. Even the lower error limit on the numbers was 78000 above average.
660
22/12/2020 16:12:13 1 0
bbc
You're the one talking absolute nonsense. How on earth did 76 people upvote this when it's demonstrably false? I can only imagine it didn't fit their agenda.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending11december2020
22/12/2020 20:40:20 0 0
bbc
Got any stats to back that up? No? I thought so.
21
22/12/2020 13:49:49 2 6
bbc
Death rate slowly down was previous news item with hys...
One swallow does not a summer maketh..
11
alf
22/12/2020 13:46:21 9 23
bbc
To put this into some perspective, 70,000 civilians were killed in the UK in World War 2 - that's 70,000 during the whole 5 year period of the war. This year alone, we have lost 10,000 more people than that to Covid.
22
22/12/2020 13:49:51 16 6
bbc
Nonsense, the majority of those were with people having underlying issues and were already dying. Mortality for people with no health issues is negligible. Those stats are "with" covid and not "of" covid.
85
22/12/2020 14:02:39 4 5
bbc
Another armchair doctor. So by your logic a terminal ill cancer patient who gets hit by a lorry is still killed by cancer and died 'with lorry'. If the medical experts ascertain the straw that breaks the camel's back is Covid then it's covid same as any other circumstance. Careless whether they we're suffering with any number of other illnesses, covid is the likely reason death is accelerated.
157
22/12/2020 14:09:58 1 1
bbc
Each and every one of us is 'already dying', and who among us has absolutely no 'underlying issues'? EXCESS deaths numbers worldwide should make you realise the reality of the situation.
320
22/12/2020 15:06:21 0 0
bbc
Perhaps you don't realise that the life expectancy of an 80 year-old male with COPD or heart disease is 5-10 years (see: https://www.theactuary.com/features/2020/05/07/co-morbidity-question).

Even those with comorbidities aren't necessarily at death's door.
23
22/12/2020 13:50:05 17 16
bbc
This report made grim reading, but thanks for publishing it.

My own plan (and advice for those who want it) is simple:

Stay home.
Stay safe.
Watch a Christmas Day service online.
Call friends and family by phone, Skype etc.
36
22/12/2020 13:52:41 9 8
bbc
Unfortunately, advice that is too simple for some to follow.
46
22/12/2020 13:53:41 1 1
bbc
Happy Xmas. I'll make my own deceit thank you.
3
22/12/2020 13:44:09 22 20
bbc
These numbers are beyond acceptable and are only going to increase significantly as the current high number of cases works its way through. The gov has to accept responsibility.
24
22/12/2020 13:50:13 19 7
bbc
No. People need to accept responsibility - and I unfortunately too many people haven't taken this seriously from the start - through mass groupings, parties, marches etc

The government have been broadly clear with their advice on hygiene. People who blame the government are like children and take no personal responsibility for their actions.
Thanks, Hitler. Good to know. Removed
25
22/12/2020 13:50:14 6 3
bbc
Next they'll be shooting people for not wearing a mask in Tescos.
5
22/12/2020 13:44:56 132 89
bbc
One of the reasons that death rates are increasing (albeit gradually) year on year is due to the population explosion in the U.K. in recent years. In the 1980s there were 56m in the country - now almost 70m - a growth of 25% in little more than 3 decades. So naturally a higher volume of deaths, year on year, will follow.
26
22/12/2020 13:50:27 32 20
bbc
This is 80k more deaths this year than the average of the last five years.

Nothing to do with population growth and everything to do with an inept response to a crisis from our amateurish and incompetent government.
622
22/12/2020 16:04:56 4 7
bbc
no. it isnt. Read again . BBC trick. they have left out the unusually low deaths before the COVID. those old ill people were always going to die later in the year. it's 70.000 if you check the ONS
27
22/12/2020 13:50:32 41 35
bbc
Clear from the graph that the "deadly second wave" is little more than a ripple. Time to stop this madness.
37
22/12/2020 13:52:45 35 24
bbc
Madness as in you being able to make absurd comments like that??
39
22/12/2020 13:52:58 16 11
bbc
It's a ripple because of the lockdowns. How do you think it would look if we'd had a free-for-all since October?
40
22/12/2020 13:53:02 14 11
bbc
There are none so blind as those who WILL not see.

It is clear from the graph that it is a horrendous toll of innocent lives.

I take it you never did maths, statistics or any form of analysis in any education you may have attended.
44
22/12/2020 13:53:34 7 12
bbc
A death is a death it doesn't matter how many occur if they can be prevented thy should be. People are left devastated or are you so inhuman not to realise this.
10
22/12/2020 13:45:59 44 41
bbc
Speak to funeral directors, undertakers etc. and they will tell you they're not any busier than before the plandemic. Go figure......
28
22/12/2020 13:51:09 33 17
bbc
nonesense if not pure lies
22/12/2020 18:23:23 0 0
bbc
I drive round a major city and its suburbs daily for work, I don't see an excess of hearses.
20
22/12/2020 13:49:04 133 94
bbc
Absolute nonsense this. It really proves that old adage that statistics can be manipulated to say what you like. Actually the overall death rate is L LOWER this year than last, they don't say that though because it doesn't fit the agenda.
29
22/12/2020 13:51:24 15 22
bbc
Good point, but it should be going up anyway as per my earlier point.
30
22/12/2020 13:51:32 6 7
bbc
One can only assume that these figures are what Priti Patel is using to show how Britain has been ahead of the curve when it comes to handling the Covid1crisis. If Priti can provide the evidence to support her claim, without using Trump-like claims, then I'm sure we would all like to see it. Our country need leadership to reduce the death rate, not the excuse for leadership we currently have.
14
22/12/2020 13:47:59 10 14
bbc
With all those excess deaths Bojo et al position is untenable they should all fall on their swords and have a GE by iphone. He made a taytotal bollix of Brexit and now he made a taytotal bollix of cov-19 by giving wee jobs and PPE contracts to his incompetent pals. Thank goodness we in Ireland had a miles better government and public health policy.
31
22/12/2020 13:51:32 3 3
bbc
That's hilarious
2
22/12/2020 13:43:50 390 23
bbc
Cant wait for the inevitable inquest in to how this has been handled by both the media and government, really hope people are held accountable.
32
22/12/2020 13:51:36 278 16
bbc
The triumph of hope over experience. We need to stop hoping elected officials will be held accountable for their policies and begin building a system in which they are
65
22/12/2020 13:57:31 8 3
bbc
@djrbfhssi

Agreed.
194
22/12/2020 14:42:24 15 11
bbc
We need to build a system where people are accountable for their actions, instead of trying to blame the government for their own failings.
319
22/12/2020 15:06:13 8 0
bbc
And the media? Appalling and apparently unaccountable too. Some noble exceptions on these pages but the BBC is not above criticism
541
22/12/2020 15:52:00 0 2
bbc
Not much chance of that in China - whether the virus came from their live meat markets - or escaped from a laboratory- the blame lies with the Chinese Government - but we will never know the truth...
33
22/12/2020 13:51:41 19 23
bbc
and still there are some idiots out there, that think its fake!!
42
22/12/2020 13:53:28 7 20
bbc
Yes mostly Tory voters and Brexiteers.
50
22/12/2020 13:54:16 2 4
bbc
And there always will be, just like the idiots who think the moon landings were fake or that Elvis is still alive.
51
22/12/2020 13:54:51 3 3
bbc
More idiots actually believe this tripe which is the real worry.
60
22/12/2020 13:56:34 3 1
bbc
A minority think it is fake and you should stop lumping others who are questioning how it is being handled which is what the incompetent media. should be doing.
130
22/12/2020 14:03:03 0 1
bbc
It's unfortunately been proven to be the way many deal with this sort of event. Most people are simple, their brains cannot process the magnitude of something like a pandemic or a war. Has been documented for centuries, plenty of stories of people laughing and joking in the streets as an army surrounds their city, or the denial much like this time around that happened during the Spanish Flu.
18
22/12/2020 13:48:44 95 74
bbc
When this is all over we will probably realise that removing liberties and destroying small businesses does more damage than COVID ever could have. The whole thing stinks... why couldn’t we just be treated like adults rather than kids. If people want to risk their own lives let them.
34
22/12/2020 13:51:52 73 63
bbc
Because as the irresponsible show, its not just their lives they are risking. Thinking like that is why we have almost 70,000 excess deaths from covid!!
93
22/12/2020 14:03:04 5 14
bbc
Billy it’s an opinion not truth. I am simply applying critical thinking, these death figures are inaccurate and out of context. I am suggesting that which we cannot yet quantify, or probably ever can fully, may well be worse than this disease nothing more. What scares me more than COVID is an authoritarian socialist government... now that kills and spreads poverty! Just look at history!
107
22/12/2020 14:04:56 6 6
bbc
No we dont. That is all deaths, few are from Covid only
267
22/12/2020 14:57:37 5 9
bbc
Average age of those dying is 83 years old. I don’t dispute the figs but lockdowns have failed totally and won’t suppress the virus, why keep doing them. All I want to put my mind at rest is a proper Cost benefit analysis of lockdowns. As the govt won’t do one they will constantly be questioned and useless conspiracy theorists will appear. Your anger should be at govt not Conpiracy theorists
767
22/12/2020 16:34:48 0 0
bbc
Totally agree. A large part of our population are acting irresponsibly. I've seen it with my own eyes. Our 3 neighbours, retirees and able to work from home civil servant, have been having visitors and ignoring the rules about staying at home unless it's imperative to go somewhere. These are people who you would think are sensible professionals....Clearly not!
22/12/2020 18:40:03 0 0
bbc
People rebel against unjust and illogical rules and laws.
We should be advised, not told what to do.
We can no longer be classed as a free country, and yet millions have died to maintain that privalidge in the past.
Disgusting.
22/12/2020 19:20:13 0 0
bbc
Excess deaths because the virus is being put down as cause of death even though it was not the main cause.Ridiculous!
35
22/12/2020 13:52:18 12 3
bbc
I seem to recall a BMJ article mentioning a health Trust in England which was reported instructing doctors to list 'pneumonia', 'CAP' or 'HAP' instead of covid-19 on death certificates at the beginning of the pandemic. This was challenged by a judicial review by Jolyon Maugham QCs Good Law project and the order was then rescinded.
23
22/12/2020 13:50:05 17 16
bbc
This report made grim reading, but thanks for publishing it.

My own plan (and advice for those who want it) is simple:

Stay home.
Stay safe.
Watch a Christmas Day service online.
Call friends and family by phone, Skype etc.
36
22/12/2020 13:52:41 9 8
bbc
Unfortunately, advice that is too simple for some to follow.
27
22/12/2020 13:50:32 41 35
bbc
Clear from the graph that the "deadly second wave" is little more than a ripple. Time to stop this madness.
37
22/12/2020 13:52:45 35 24
bbc
Madness as in you being able to make absurd comments like that??
11
alf
22/12/2020 13:46:21 9 23
bbc
To put this into some perspective, 70,000 civilians were killed in the UK in World War 2 - that's 70,000 during the whole 5 year period of the war. This year alone, we have lost 10,000 more people than that to Covid.
38
22/12/2020 13:52:49 6 4
bbc
No we haven't! They are putting Covid on everything, that isn't what kills you it's just a related symptim. I do wish people would wake up to this nonsense.
27
22/12/2020 13:50:32 41 35
bbc
Clear from the graph that the "deadly second wave" is little more than a ripple. Time to stop this madness.
39
22/12/2020 13:52:58 16 11
bbc
It's a ripple because of the lockdowns. How do you think it would look if we'd had a free-for-all since October?
27
22/12/2020 13:50:32 41 35
bbc
Clear from the graph that the "deadly second wave" is little more than a ripple. Time to stop this madness.
40
22/12/2020 13:53:02 14 11
bbc
There are none so blind as those who WILL not see.

It is clear from the graph that it is a horrendous toll of innocent lives.

I take it you never did maths, statistics or any form of analysis in any education you may have attended.
10
22/12/2020 13:45:59 44 41
bbc
Speak to funeral directors, undertakers etc. and they will tell you they're not any busier than before the plandemic. Go figure......
41
22/12/2020 13:53:16 12 8
bbc
Yet an article on here a month ago was about a cemetery digging graves in shifts and was struggling to keep up. So not sure who you have been talking to
33
22/12/2020 13:51:41 19 23
bbc
and still there are some idiots out there, that think its fake!!
42
22/12/2020 13:53:28 7 20
bbc
Yes mostly Tory voters and Brexiteers.
43
Rob
22/12/2020 13:53:32 31 18
bbc
Coke and Pineapples test positive for Covid. Tests are highly inaccurate.
Deaths are measured by who tested positive within 28 days before dying.
See the problem?
52
22/12/2020 13:55:28 14 30
bbc
yes - lots of people die more than 28 days after being tested positive. The numbers are understated.
64
22/12/2020 13:57:28 3 5
bbc
No they didn't. And before you post. I saw them and those tests were not done properly...other than properly contaminated.
359
22/12/2020 15:11:46 3 0
bbc
This article is about excess deaths. It says nothing about testing or what appears on death certificates. It is the number of people who have died this year from all causes more than you would expect in an average year.
27
22/12/2020 13:50:32 41 35
bbc
Clear from the graph that the "deadly second wave" is little more than a ripple. Time to stop this madness.
44
22/12/2020 13:53:34 7 12
bbc
A death is a death it doesn't matter how many occur if they can be prevented thy should be. People are left devastated or are you so inhuman not to realise this.
20
22/12/2020 13:49:04 133 94
bbc
Absolute nonsense this. It really proves that old adage that statistics can be manipulated to say what you like. Actually the overall death rate is L LOWER this year than last, they don't say that though because it doesn't fit the agenda.
45
22/12/2020 13:53:37 11 2
bbc
based on what? I'm interested
23
22/12/2020 13:50:05 17 16
bbc
This report made grim reading, but thanks for publishing it.

My own plan (and advice for those who want it) is simple:

Stay home.
Stay safe.
Watch a Christmas Day service online.
Call friends and family by phone, Skype etc.
46
22/12/2020 13:53:41 1 1
bbc
Happy Xmas. I'll make my own deceit thank you.
140
22/12/2020 14:08:20 0 1
bbc
Deceit is defined as 'the action or practice of deceiving someone by concealing or misrepresenting the truth.'

Can you please tell us what deceit you are planning to make?
47
22/12/2020 13:54:09 45 24
bbc
The figures really are meaningless, not lies, but at the same time not a true reflection of deaths from Covid 19. Unfortunately, in the distant future the historians will see a figure and make an assumption based on a grey area.
If some one commits suicide from depression it could be reasoned that it was Covid 19 related, but is that justified?
62
22/12/2020 13:56:55 52 27
bbc
Yes, but it's not a COVID death. It's an unfortunate death that could have been prevented if things like the NHS had not been woefully underfunded by 10 years of austerity, meaning 43,000 less nurses, nurses that would have worked the nightingale hospitals meaning normal hospitals would have still be opened.
23/12/2020 02:10:20 0 0
bbc
"not a true reflection of deaths from Covid 19"

They're the best number you have when those in charge are proven daily liars on all topics of government.

We have same in USA, it's criminal how official figures are being fudged, but no one can hide the total deaths v expected deaths measure.
20
22/12/2020 13:49:04 133 94
bbc
Absolute nonsense this. It really proves that old adage that statistics can be manipulated to say what you like. Actually the overall death rate is L LOWER this year than last, they don't say that though because it doesn't fit the agenda.
48
22/12/2020 13:54:13 12 2
bbc
Evidence?
88
22/12/2020 14:02:40 5 7
bbc
100
22/12/2020 14:03:54 5 12
bbc
Look it up. It's not me saying it. If nothing else the population increase over a five yearbooks will increase deaths by 10%.
7
22/12/2020 13:45:17 302 59
bbc
What seems to be eye-catching on that graph is the chunk of Covid deaths that actually are not excess, and the large grey area should serve as a reminder that Covid is not the only cause of death, which seems to have been forgotten.
49
22/12/2020 13:54:14 174 204
bbc
Correct BSUB.
Clear from the graph that the "deadly second wave" is little more than a ripple. Time to stop this madness.
174
22/12/2020 14:38:13 46 17
bbc
I new a man who used to complain bitterly about having to take medication for his blood pressure. "Every time they check it it's normal" he used to say.

The deadly second wave is little more than a "ripple" because of the "madness".
311
22/12/2020 15:04:38 23 22
bbc
and to add to that, the 'average' line for the past 5 years does not/cannot show the highest death rate for that time period. The 'excess deaths' may be only a little worse than the worst of these 5 years (could be fewer! I've not seen that data). Furthermore, ANY death where covid was implicated in the previous 28 days counts, further distorting the perception of the death rate due to covid.
348
22/12/2020 15:10:10 7 18
bbc
you are so right, GIGO. you are so right

so right.

so right.
436
22/12/2020 15:28:26 10 4
bbc
So true, the best thing would be a gagging order for Hancock.
475
22/12/2020 15:37:17 7 4
bbc
this 'madness' is what's kept the deaths down. Having thousands of additional deaths to 'justify' the lockdowns, is that what you want?
520
22/12/2020 15:44:29 7 5
bbc
Indeed, stop the conspiracy theory anti-mask idiots who are causing hospitals to become overstretched.
732
22/12/2020 16:28:35 4 1
bbc
I think an almost 50% increase in average deaths is a little more than a ripple.
850
22/12/2020 16:48:59 2 2
bbc
You may think that many thousands of deaths is only a ripple, but it has been kept at "only" many thousands (as opposed to many tens of thousands or more) by the actions we have taken to limit transmission.
22/12/2020 17:19:24 2 3
bbc
The madness is people still insisting that this isn't dangerous
22/12/2020 17:23:32 1 0
bbc
Better treatments and understanding of the virus, plus a less steep gradient in the increased case rate makes it less deadly in the second wave.
BOF
22/12/2020 17:25:09 0 2
bbc
OK but to stop the NHS being overwhelmed those with Covid over the age of 60 should not be treated and should be left to live or die as fate dictates.
22/12/2020 20:28:17 0 0
bbc
Are you serious? We are only just starting the second wave of infections and as you should know by now it takes a week or two before people end up in hospital and a further week or two to become a statistic on the graph in question.
33
22/12/2020 13:51:41 19 23
bbc
and still there are some idiots out there, that think its fake!!
50
22/12/2020 13:54:16 2 4
bbc
And there always will be, just like the idiots who think the moon landings were fake or that Elvis is still alive.
33
22/12/2020 13:51:41 19 23
bbc
and still there are some idiots out there, that think its fake!!
51
22/12/2020 13:54:51 3 3
bbc
More idiots actually believe this tripe which is the real worry.
43
Rob
22/12/2020 13:53:32 31 18
bbc
Coke and Pineapples test positive for Covid. Tests are highly inaccurate.
Deaths are measured by who tested positive within 28 days before dying.
See the problem?
52
22/12/2020 13:55:28 14 30
bbc
yes - lots of people die more than 28 days after being tested positive. The numbers are understated.
69
Rob
22/12/2020 13:58:38 6 6
bbc
All people in hospital are tested as a matter of routine.
They never go over 28 days without getting another test.
People in hospital die of all ailments.
There's probably a huge number of false positives in there.
53
22/12/2020 13:55:35 53 30
bbc
Approx 10k "excess" is due to population increase. Publishing numbers without any context or explanation is misleading & unprofessional.
125
22/12/2020 14:06:33 25 13
bbc
I'm glad you said that. My thoughts exactly. Don't know whay 5 year average is being used.
513
22/12/2020 15:46:18 1 1
bbc
Presumably, not just a population increase, but an increase in the elderly as a percentage of the population.
22/12/2020 17:31:19 0 0
bbc
10k would be a very crude measure based on overall death rates for the entire population. If changes to age ranges are considered then 34k is nearer. Allow for the "extra" week in this year's figures and we are up to 44k. Allow for a normal range and it's 34 to 54k. Add that to the average number - 605k and that's what we should expect.
22/12/2020 18:22:03 3 0
bbc
Ha! You guys and your adorable ignorance of statistics. It would be really amusing if it was DIRECTLY LEADING TO INCREASES IN INFECTIONS.
Mo
22/12/2020 18:38:44 1 0
bbc
Jerry, it’s a 5 year average. You’re suggesting we’ve had a massive population jump in those 5 years? Give your head a wobble.
54
22/12/2020 13:55:50 23 17
bbc
So overall the deaths are not much different to the five year norm.

Does anyone know anyone who has died from the flu this winter, or do doctors put Covid on the death certificate by default?
82
22/12/2020 14:02:08 1 1
bbc
Try looking on the Web, the BBC have reported it as have most media outlets as well as HMG and the various health services around the UK and Europe.

Look and ye shall find.
22/12/2020 19:59:37 0 0
bbc
Riiiiight.

Just the largest deviation from normal since, let's see, 1919.

That's with, perhaps, 10% of the population having been infected.
55
22/12/2020 13:55:56 9 13
bbc
How many of these lives were lost directly because of the actions of bumbling Boris Johnson?

Remember he failed to prepare the NHS with PPE from Jan - March

He locked down the nation far too late in March - Cheltenham races etc

He wasted all Summer faling to prepare for the inevitable 2nd wave

Knew about the new more infections strain since September

Again locked down too late in the 2nd wave
He has failed the UK and her people since day one

The Tory Party will never be forgiven for this
92
22/12/2020 14:03:01 0 1
bbc
Boris gave advice on staying safe,lots of people ignored his advice ,these idiots are more responsible
3
22/12/2020 13:44:09 22 20
bbc
These numbers are beyond acceptable and are only going to increase significantly as the current high number of cases works its way through. The gov has to accept responsibility.
56
22/12/2020 13:55:57 1 2
bbc
Address your complaints and criticisms to the numpties who continue to spread the virus.

People travelling 200miles from tier 3 areas to tier 1 areas as reported just for a drink in a pub. People moving out of York for the same reason.

Thankfully the Police are stamping down on this. Perhaps cell time to supplement the fines might need to be considered for some of the more excessive cases.
57
22/12/2020 13:55:58 36 17
bbc
Tragic!

Bad news that should be reported, however, I was watching Rossiya1 yesterday and watched President Putin and the chiefs of AstraZeneca and Gamaleya Research institute signing an agreement to work together to defeat this virus

Why no mention of this BBC? I do not even expect a HYS but I do expect to be informed by my own National broadcaster of potential positive news.
77
22/12/2020 14:00:34 29 18
bbc
Because the last time the russians exported something to be introduced with a syringe, it was in Salisbury, and that didn't go too well.. I trust the russians less than the vaccine we say is safe..
80
22/12/2020 14:01:33 5 5
bbc
The bbc should really try to be a flagship news organisation, not a second rate alternative.
115
22/12/2020 14:05:39 5 5
bbc
It doesn't fit the cynical negative disaster fantacy that seems to have taken over the population.
116
Guy
22/12/2020 14:05:40 3 3
bbc
Yea, the Russians are experts at drugs, for cheating in sport
275
22/12/2020 14:59:19 5 3
bbc
The BBC are the cheerleaders of bad news, with their secure jobs why not it’s far easier
300
22/12/2020 15:02:40 4 4
bbc
I think you will find that no news outlet broadcasts every item of news, good or bad. Indeed, I suspect that Rossiya1 might not broadcast quite everything.
And I also suspect that you (Spolmit) are leaving something out - like who you are and what is your agenda?
510
22/12/2020 15:45:45 2 0
bbc
No mention of the failure in the vaccine being made by French company Sanofi which the EU ordered up in millions of doses due to the political pressure of France!!!
798
22/12/2020 16:40:39 3 0
bbc
There was an article a few days ago about it (specifically that the UK and Russia were going to work together testing Sputnik V and the AstraZeneca vaccine in tandem), I'm too lazy to look it up; however there was even an HYS on it.
22/12/2020 17:28:17 1 1
bbc
AstraZeneca have signed dozens of agreements, the BBC can hardly expect to cover them all.

But a quick search revealed that this is old news, maybe you missed it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w172x1946wvn1ln
23/12/2020 09:34:48 0 0
bbc
By all means let's collaborate with Russia on things chemical and pharmaceutical. But let's not forget to keep our best gas masks and decontamination suits to hand.
2
22/12/2020 13:43:50 390 23
bbc
Cant wait for the inevitable inquest in to how this has been handled by both the media and government, really hope people are held accountable.
58
22/12/2020 13:56:21 20 40
bbc
What exactly are the media responsible for again? Only people to blame are the politicians
110
22/12/2020 14:05:20 35 2
bbc
Should the media influence politicians? Obviously not. Do they? Obviously yes.
136
22/12/2020 14:07:33 21 10
bbc
@arcangel

The media are there to question the government and not simply print what they are being told. Also the censorship by the media has been shocking.
221
22/12/2020 14:48:30 18 4
bbc
Think the general public are also very Accountable for their actions, Govt can only advise when there is a GLOBAL pandemic. people who choose to ignore are the ones who should be questioned. Obviously my opinion and may not be that of others.
332
22/12/2020 15:08:05 2 1
bbc
@arcangel

You thought this may have made the news.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq8SXOBy-4w&t=10s
433
22/12/2020 15:27:38 5 1
bbc
The media's reporting style has often been done in a way that incites, enables and encourages those members of the public who have chosen to ignore the rules intended to limit the spread of the virus.
537
22/12/2020 15:51:19 0 4
bbc
scaremongering. deceit. Its not 80,000; the below average deaths in the first quarter has to average out. can give you hundreds of examples like this.
15
22/12/2020 13:48:04 518 61
bbc
Patel clamed today that the government were 'always ahead of the curve' as far as their response to Covid.

How minister can come out with lies like that and keep a straight face I'll never know.

Their response has been woeful & reactionary. They have never acted with any foresight nor had any plans for what might happen. They cannot be allowed to re-write recent history by spinning it like this.
59
22/12/2020 13:56:23 85 32
bbc
Well this is traditionally how governments have operated, so why change now.
137
22/12/2020 14:07:59 44 5
bbc
I can give you 80,000 reasons
680
22/12/2020 16:08:00 8 0
bbc
No British government has lied as frequently and blatantly as this one. Nor has there ever been such naked corruption, from awarding contracts to friends to ministers like Rees Mogg gaming the economy and profiting from it while being in a position to make the very policies he can game!
766
22/12/2020 16:34:24 5 0
bbc
Thats not really true. Its about the most pathetic justification for this government there is.......to claim every other government was just as bad. Those that continue to support them have no ammunition.
22/12/2020 17:26:07 0 0
bbc
Well they should
33
22/12/2020 13:51:41 19 23
bbc
and still there are some idiots out there, that think its fake!!
60
22/12/2020 13:56:34 3 1
bbc
A minority think it is fake and you should stop lumping others who are questioning how it is being handled which is what the incompetent media. should be doing.
118
22/12/2020 14:05:52 1 2
bbc
The media are incompetent. They have spread fear and panic, they have twisted government advice, they have splashed photos of empty shelves creating panic where there wasn't any. The media have been agitators, no better than the deluded marches against lockdown.
10
22/12/2020 13:45:59 44 41
bbc
Speak to funeral directors, undertakers etc. and they will tell you they're not any busier than before the plandemic. Go figure......
61
22/12/2020 13:56:44 7 7
bbc
and yet here in Buckinghamshire you will find exactly the opposite.

So where do you get your so called information?
288
22/12/2020 15:00:57 3 0
bbc
Who talks to lots of funeral directors, undertakers (same thing), etc (what could etc be?)?

It's just made up.
47
22/12/2020 13:54:09 45 24
bbc
The figures really are meaningless, not lies, but at the same time not a true reflection of deaths from Covid 19. Unfortunately, in the distant future the historians will see a figure and make an assumption based on a grey area.
If some one commits suicide from depression it could be reasoned that it was Covid 19 related, but is that justified?
62
22/12/2020 13:56:55 52 27
bbc
Yes, but it's not a COVID death. It's an unfortunate death that could have been prevented if things like the NHS had not been woefully underfunded by 10 years of austerity, meaning 43,000 less nurses, nurses that would have worked the nightingale hospitals meaning normal hospitals would have still be opened.
131
22/12/2020 14:04:44 13 11
bbc
The NHS is not woefully underfunded. It is woefully inefficient and wasteful.
22/12/2020 19:44:19 1 1
bbc
This rhetoric has to stop, if you had given the NHS another billion a year they would still claim under funding, look at all unnecessary road works and local council 'improvements' that are started every Feb/March, before the financial year end, use or lose. The NHS is a victim of its own success and needs radical over haul but cannot be done as it would impact on services, see the problem?
22/12/2020 21:57:06 1 1
bbc
How can a system/business that is supplied with billions of pounds a year be underfunded!! Whilst the British population continue to live a life of shocking diets, lack of exercise and outright neglect there will never, ever be enough money to fund the medicines needed for the bad health of this shocking and obese population. Billions spent on avoidable diseases every year
63
22/12/2020 13:57:27 61 13
bbc
They are reporting excess deaths as a result of a new disease cov-19. If you look at figures 10 years back to now you will see that with the added cov-19 factor deaths are in excess of those expected that is all these data can show. Most if not all cov-19 related deaths were also co-morbidities. In a sense cov-19 was the straw that broke the camel's back.
Absolutely not, without Covid, they would not have died, jesus! ... think before you write. READ and EDUCATE your stupid self on what Covid does. Removed
23/12/2020 01:56:26 0 0
bbc
"that is all these data can show"

They also show how much official figures are under-reported. UK's aren't bad, 67K v 81K, roughly 17% under.

Here in USA, many counties have stopped reporting numbers, as have some states. Anywhere Trumpets are involved is suspect.

So the only source for what's really happening is tracking excess deaths.

Pray UK doesn't get as corrupt as here, it's not good.
43
Rob
22/12/2020 13:53:32 31 18
bbc
Coke and Pineapples test positive for Covid. Tests are highly inaccurate.
Deaths are measured by who tested positive within 28 days before dying.
See the problem?
64
22/12/2020 13:57:28 3 5
bbc
No they didn't. And before you post. I saw them and those tests were not done properly...other than properly contaminated.
32
22/12/2020 13:51:36 278 16
bbc
The triumph of hope over experience. We need to stop hoping elected officials will be held accountable for their policies and begin building a system in which they are
65
22/12/2020 13:57:31 8 3
bbc
@djrbfhssi

Agreed.
2
22/12/2020 13:43:50 390 23
bbc
Cant wait for the inevitable inquest in to how this has been handled by both the media and government, really hope people are held accountable.
66
22/12/2020 13:57:42 19 2
bbc
I would echo your sentiments completely but if you think there'll be any accountability then you haven't been paying attention.
554
22/12/2020 15:52:53 1 0
bbc
See further the Grenfell cover up and non appearance of witnesses!
2
22/12/2020 13:43:50 390 23
bbc
Cant wait for the inevitable inquest in to how this has been handled by both the media and government, really hope people are held accountable.
67
22/12/2020 13:57:51 18 14
bbc
We seem to be doing better than Belgium, Italy and Spain though - this is far from over
302
22/12/2020 15:02:51 6 0
bbc
NOT according to the excess death stats - which is what this article is highlighting.
585
22/12/2020 15:55:47 4 0
bbc
Seeing as we have more deaths than either, and a far more incompetent and corrupt government, I am not sure how you arrive at that conclusion. Certainly it's going to get a lot worse here in the plague island with the Brexi-tories lining their pockets from shorting sterling and handing contracts to their incompetent mates though.
How many of these lives were lost directly because of the actions of bumbling Boris Johnson?

Remember he failed to prepare the NHS with PPE from Jan - March

He locked down the nation far too late in March - Cheltenham races etc

He wasted all Summer faling to prepare for the inevitable 2nd wave

Knew about the new more infections strain since September

Again locked down too late in the 2nd wave
68
22/12/2020 13:58:19 7 12
bbc
He has failed the UK and her people since day one

The Tory Party will never be forgiven for this
105
22/12/2020 14:04:16 0 1
bbc
"The Tory Party will never be forgiven for this"

Let me guess - you're a staunch Labour voter who has never, and will never, vote Tory? You'd bemoan anything and everything they do regardless.

You vote for who you want. Let others do the same. Just don't be surprised when less people agree with you than you would like.
52
22/12/2020 13:55:28 14 30
bbc
yes - lots of people die more than 28 days after being tested positive. The numbers are understated.
69
Rob
22/12/2020 13:58:38 6 6
bbc
All people in hospital are tested as a matter of routine.
They never go over 28 days without getting another test.
People in hospital die of all ailments.
There's probably a huge number of false positives in there.
921
22/12/2020 16:59:38 0 0
bbc
The figures for deaths within 28 days are for deaths within 28 days of the *first* positive test though.
70
22/12/2020 13:58:40 17 13
bbc
People keep saying this is end of second wave
The first wave hasn't gone yet! It only goes when there's 0 deaths a day!!
981
22/12/2020 17:11:00 0 0
bbc
There isn't a generally accepted definition of a pandemic "wave", but since our 7-day moving average daily death rate dropped below 1% of its peak in April, it's hard to see how the first wave wasn't over.

Americans think they're in their third wave btw, despite never getting below 23% of their peak. Looks like they're still in their first wave to me.
986
22/12/2020 17:11:40 0 0
bbc
Look at the red areas on the graph.
5
22/12/2020 13:44:56 132 89
bbc
One of the reasons that death rates are increasing (albeit gradually) year on year is due to the population explosion in the U.K. in recent years. In the 1980s there were 56m in the country - now almost 70m - a growth of 25% in little more than 3 decades. So naturally a higher volume of deaths, year on year, will follow.
71
22/12/2020 13:58:46 23 12
bbc
But is the population increase has been in the last 40 years, then the percentage of people over 40 will have dropped substantially. The level of elderly deaths will not have been impacted by the births of the young.

I take it maths and statistics along with analysis isn't your strongest suit.
357
22/12/2020 15:11:43 7 0
bbc
Nor yours it seems. Population growth in the UK has two rot causes, immigration and increased longevity. The population has become "older" over the last four decades.
676
22/12/2020 16:16:25 0 0
bbc
I take it sarcasm is yours.
22/12/2020 18:02:00 0 0
bbc
"But if the population increase has been in the last 40 years, then the percentage of people over 40 will have dropped substantially."
Possibly, if the population increase was due solely to births.
Strongest suit?
72
22/12/2020 13:58:52 12 11
bbc
When we have our elected leaders, albeit voted in by a minority of the electorate, prepared to spin, deceive, speak untruths and even lie on this issue and the issues related to it why should we believe anything?
138
22/12/2020 14:08:12 3 1
bbc
Jesus, more down votes than up.
Anyone who thinks this Government have done a decent job or have had anyone's interests at heart other than their own needs their head tested.
2
22/12/2020 13:43:50 390 23
bbc
Cant wait for the inevitable inquest in to how this has been handled by both the media and government, really hope people are held accountable.
73
22/12/2020 13:59:36 27 6
bbc
Ha. Nice one. All BoJo has to do is resign and then, like Cameron with Brexit, its someone else's problem. Off to write his biography and his column. That's why they talk in meaningless soundbites, its none committal.
589
22/12/2020 15:57:59 1 0
bbc
Precisely why he needs to be held to account. Fully to account. For every contract to every incompetent Brexit backer who has sought to profit from this Tory created disaster.
74
Sam
22/12/2020 13:59:47 7 5
bbc
Can someone post the Twitter link with the real facts... I lost it.

More seriously - whatever your politics or what flavour of statistics you like consuming, it cannot be denied that many people are getting sick and a lot don't make it through this.

We need to do whatever we can to contain this until the vaccine squashes it.

Plenty of time when it's all over to do the after action reports
109
22/12/2020 14:05:12 6 6
bbc
We could have protected the vulnerable without wrecking the economy as per many epidemiologists were saying. If the vulnerable have to isolate anyway then they wouldn't be in contact with anyone else carrying the virus allowing the majority to continue living.
75
22/12/2020 14:00:00 0 9
bbc
Have I missed something. What is an "excess death"?
94
22/12/2020 14:03:08 2 2
bbc
These are additional deaths above the annual level one would expect for the given time period. Most were co-morbidities, at least 50% in care homes since in UK they discharged folk untested.
96
Guy
22/12/2020 14:03:12 0 1
bbc
Did you read the whole article ? It is explained.
97
22/12/2020 14:03:30 0 1
bbc
Try reading the article
104
22/12/2020 14:04:16 0 1
bbc
Clearly you have missed something ??
112
22/12/2020 14:05:25 1 1
bbc
In excess of the very predictable amount each year, which is about 580,000 for UK.
144
BOF
22/12/2020 14:08:40 1 1
bbc
It is the difference between the number of deaths which we would normally expect from end March to the beginning of December as a 5 year average and the number we have actually had this year. To put it in proportion we expect normally roughly 10,000 deaths a week we have probably had over 1,500 extra deaths a week since the beginning of March.
12
22/12/2020 13:47:17 19 4
bbc
Lots of different numbers that are intended to add context to our situation; it’s interesting, yet people will only pick up on the ones that support their opinion and disregard the rest...
76
22/12/2020 14:00:18 10 4
bbc
That is if they actually make the effort to understand any of the data and analyse it to grasp the nuances.

Too many years of poor education/learning being reflected in the Comments here.
57
22/12/2020 13:55:58 36 17
bbc
Tragic!

Bad news that should be reported, however, I was watching Rossiya1 yesterday and watched President Putin and the chiefs of AstraZeneca and Gamaleya Research institute signing an agreement to work together to defeat this virus

Why no mention of this BBC? I do not even expect a HYS but I do expect to be informed by my own National broadcaster of potential positive news.
77
22/12/2020 14:00:34 29 18
bbc
Because the last time the russians exported something to be introduced with a syringe, it was in Salisbury, and that didn't go too well.. I trust the russians less than the vaccine we say is safe..
128
22/12/2020 14:06:40 4 2
bbc
Fortunately intelligent scientists around the world can see the value in working together.

I was commenting on the lack of reporting of positive collaboration- but then you knew that.
78
22/12/2020 14:01:10 4 3
bbc
As Gove said "We as an independent nation think we can do better".
Well Mikey, We certainly have this time.
To quote the PM, Apparent success.!
9
22/12/2020 13:45:49 346 193
bbc
I have had two elderly distant relatives die and had 'Corona' on their death certificates.
Their relatives are disputing this. They didn't 'die' of C19. They happened to be tested in the old folks home and had 'C19' with no symptoms.

What they DID have due to their 90+ ages were dementia, lots of issues and in one case terminal cancer due to a life of smoking.

Lies, damned lies and statistics.
79
22/12/2020 14:01:29 302 192
bbc
Mate your anecdotal evidence of a friend of a friend (or relative of a relative) means nothing. I have 2 relatives who died in care homes during this and didn't have C19 on their death certificates even though one died in a covid isolation ward.

Stop muddying the waters with what could easily be your own lie and misinformation, it helps no one
200
22/12/2020 14:43:56 41 18
bbc
The whole purpose of a forum like this is precisely so that people like adeyb can put their own stories out there. Not necessarily to blindly accept what we are fed.
If his 'muddying' helps no one, then what SHOULD people be posting.
It's a forum of views, anecdotes, opinions (like yours) for ordinary people so I think his view (that YOU suggest is a lie) is perfectly valid.
247
22/12/2020 14:53:16 10 7
bbc
‘Stop muddying the waters with what could easily be your own lie and misinformation, it helps no one‘

And does this mean yours isn’t ?? Assume you have evidence that the post is mudding the water and potentially a lie or misinformation??

Find it very poor that in this country rather than debate we just call others liars when they don’t support the narrative
290
22/12/2020 15:01:14 4 2
bbc
Irony isn't your forte?
334
22/12/2020 15:08:18 3 7
bbc
So your anecdote is better than his /hers? Mate? Really?
507
22/12/2020 15:45:30 3 1
bbc
Well said no scaremongering on HYS
570
22/12/2020 15:56:04 0 4
bbc
may not help you. Us with a brain know, most deaths were people above the normal life expectancy.
961
VoR
22/12/2020 17:05:33 0 0
bbc
I like how he says he has a relative who died, then says that "their" relatives are disputing it. Strange phrasing to use for someone who is a relative.
Jim
22/12/2020 17:20:24 2 1
bbc
You do realise you rebuffed that anecdotal evidence with anecdotal evidence?
22/12/2020 18:00:29 1 1
bbc
Perhaps you too could stop muddying the waters with what could easily be your own lie and misinformation as it helps no one .
22/12/2020 18:22:49 0 0
bbc
adeyb and arcangel. Sympathies to you both.

Your stories show the need for the unambiguous "death with 28 days of diagnosis" which avoids the arguments as to whether C19 caused the death or not - for some it will and for some it won't. It is useful because it lets us see if death rates are going up or down from week to week - which we really need to know.
57
22/12/2020 13:55:58 36 17
bbc
Tragic!

Bad news that should be reported, however, I was watching Rossiya1 yesterday and watched President Putin and the chiefs of AstraZeneca and Gamaleya Research institute signing an agreement to work together to defeat this virus

Why no mention of this BBC? I do not even expect a HYS but I do expect to be informed by my own National broadcaster of potential positive news.
80
22/12/2020 14:01:33 5 5
bbc
The bbc should really try to be a flagship news organisation, not a second rate alternative.
81
22/12/2020 14:01:50 3 3
bbc
A really useful metric would be obesity of those who've died.
Looking at countries with large populations, USA, Brazil, Mexico they have high deaths and high obesity (30%)

Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Indonesia all have many fewer deaths and much lower obesity (3% - 9%)

Coincidence?
101
22/12/2020 14:03:59 1 2
bbc
Er, no the majority of the populations of those countries live in rural obscurity (think Cornwall for example).. so the vast majority of their deaths are unreported to the authorities
54
22/12/2020 13:55:50 23 17
bbc
So overall the deaths are not much different to the five year norm.

Does anyone know anyone who has died from the flu this winter, or do doctors put Covid on the death certificate by default?
82
22/12/2020 14:02:08 1 1
bbc
Try looking on the Web, the BBC have reported it as have most media outlets as well as HMG and the various health services around the UK and Europe.

Look and ye shall find.
83
22/12/2020 14:02:08 7 3
bbc
There are two certainties in this world - taxes and death. It is not nice when a loved one does pass, but people cannot live forever! Lockdowns are causing more younger deaths through missed cancer diagnoses and suicide etc.

Open up the country again and let the older generation see their loved ones before they pass on from everything else
22/12/2020 17:18:31 0 0
bbc
It won't happen because the media would show pictures of people dying in hospital corridors. Makes the government look bad.
84
22/12/2020 14:02:25 2 4
bbc
And yet the fake news peddlers will tell you its really only 4k for all of the EU which is quite blatantly a lie.

If you don't think the virus is deadly and find 80k excess deaths ok, can i just ask why you think that?
22
22/12/2020 13:49:51 16 6
bbc
Nonsense, the majority of those were with people having underlying issues and were already dying. Mortality for people with no health issues is negligible. Those stats are "with" covid and not "of" covid.
85
22/12/2020 14:02:39 4 5
bbc
Another armchair doctor. So by your logic a terminal ill cancer patient who gets hit by a lorry is still killed by cancer and died 'with lorry'. If the medical experts ascertain the straw that breaks the camel's back is Covid then it's covid same as any other circumstance. Careless whether they we're suffering with any number of other illnesses, covid is the likely reason death is accelerated.
86
22/12/2020 13:46:09 3 3
bbc
Please add context - this continual decision to imply all/almost all excess deaths are Covid is disgraceful. The harsh reality is that at least half, if not more Covid deaths are people who would probably have died anyway (80+ age group), so a lot of the excess deaths are from the measures imposed on society itself. And you are allowing, and indeed complicit, in this.
87
22/12/2020 14:02:39 3 3
bbc
I remain objective about all aspects of Covid, but what is blatantly apparent is that the “figures” do not accurately represent deaths from Covid - they capture deaths with Covid and in many cases death from Covid is presumed unless proven otherwise (and many families don’t want to delay a funeral for weeks simply to change cause of death).

So on this occasion I do not trust the figures at all.
48
22/12/2020 13:54:13 12 2
bbc
Evidence?
88
22/12/2020 14:02:40 5 7
bbc
627
22/12/2020 16:06:33 4 0
bbc
England & Wales deaths 2019 up to week ending 27th December 527k.
England & Wales deaths 2020 up to week ending 11th December 579k.
So unless Scotland & NI have had far fewer deaths than last year, the number of deaths this year seems to be well up on 2019.
89
22/12/2020 14:02:48 13 5
bbc
Without knowing the variance. Trotting out a figure relative to the average number of deaths is meaningless.

These are the very basics of statistics.
90
22/12/2020 14:02:51 6 6
bbc
lots of people on here arguing about tests not working, cause of death being recorded inaccurately etc etc. Which complete ignores the point of the article that 80k more people than normal have died. Look at Apr/May. Twice as many people than normal were suddenly dying. Would love to know from the Covid deniers what they think that was.
145
22/12/2020 14:08:56 3 3
bbc
It's more than the recent 5-year average. Go back in time slightly and you'll see that the rise isn't particularly dramatic. And by the way, I'm not a "denier".
I'm curious as to how many of these "excess deaths" were due to the lock down - cancer patients being ignored, etc. When we have those kinds of figures, we can really assess the the efficacy of the lock down.
163
22/12/2020 14:08:24 0 1
bbc
Given that 50% of Covid cases in hospitals actually catch the virus whilst in hospital for other problems it’s hard to tell. Don’t think many people are denying COVID, just don’t trust the numbers and policies as we are consistently lied to so have no idea how severe COVID actually is.
91
22/12/2020 13:48:17 4 4
bbc
Looking at the years prior to COVID, it seems that we had a couple of mild winters where the mortality rates were lower. This could have had an impact on excess deaths for 2020. Also, I'm not convinced by 'deaths with COVID' on the death certificate. Unless the deceased has been tested this is unreliable: my father died with respiratory problems - but it was the lung cancer that killed him.
121
22/12/2020 14:06:04 1 4
bbc
You are not convinced, well most of the rest of us are. But I expect your are a virology expert? No? thought not.
How many of these lives were lost directly because of the actions of bumbling Boris Johnson?

Remember he failed to prepare the NHS with PPE from Jan - March

He locked down the nation far too late in March - Cheltenham races etc

He wasted all Summer faling to prepare for the inevitable 2nd wave

Knew about the new more infections strain since September

Again locked down too late in the 2nd wave
92
22/12/2020 14:03:01 0 1
bbc
Boris gave advice on staying safe,lots of people ignored his advice ,these idiots are more responsible
34
22/12/2020 13:51:52 73 63
bbc
Because as the irresponsible show, its not just their lives they are risking. Thinking like that is why we have almost 70,000 excess deaths from covid!!
93
22/12/2020 14:03:04 5 14
bbc
Billy it’s an opinion not truth. I am simply applying critical thinking, these death figures are inaccurate and out of context. I am suggesting that which we cannot yet quantify, or probably ever can fully, may well be worse than this disease nothing more. What scares me more than COVID is an authoritarian socialist government... now that kills and spreads poverty! Just look at history!
209
TDW
22/12/2020 14:45:50 7 7
bbc
“What scares me more than COVID is an authoritarian socialist government“
What scares me more than a government telling me to shelter and stay safe is a killer disease that will fill my lungs with mucus thus drowning me.
687
22/12/2020 16:18:10 1 2
bbc
What scares me more is the negligent incompetence from this complacent adminstration who have diverted £billions from taxpayers to their business chums and family who often just happen to be Tory party donors. Sickening.
982
22/12/2020 17:11:19 1 0
bbc
The death figures are entirely accurate.

Unless you think the government doesn't keep really accurate records of who is alive and who is dead?

Otherwise, I look forward to drawing my pension until I am at least 500 years old.
75
22/12/2020 14:00:00 0 9
bbc
Have I missed something. What is an "excess death"?
94
22/12/2020 14:03:08 2 2
bbc
These are additional deaths above the annual level one would expect for the given time period. Most were co-morbidities, at least 50% in care homes since in UK they discharged folk untested.
2
22/12/2020 13:43:50 390 23
bbc
Cant wait for the inevitable inquest in to how this has been handled by both the media and government, really hope people are held accountable.
95
22/12/2020 14:03:11 15 30
bbc
Glad you included the media to accountability. As for example this article has a misleading title. The over 80,000 deaths includes the 67000 from covid; so in reality there has been an excess of 13000 deaths not accounted for. It's not good news, but will keep the anxiety level down in these difficult times.
293
22/12/2020 15:01:38 10 0
bbc
I don't understand your point. The title says (currently at 15.00) 'excess' deaths. There have, apparently, been 80,000 excess deaths so in why is this misleading? Of that 80,000, 67k may well have been directly due to Covid. Even though we know this they can still be excess.
314
22/12/2020 15:05:13 8 2
bbc
Those excess deaths ARE Covid related. What do you think they are from? In fact the FT has a series of articles and graphs explaining how background deaths are actually down this year, and Covid deaths are even higher than the excess death tally.
588
22/12/2020 15:58:55 3 0
bbc
80k excess deaths, 67k of which were within 28 days of a positive test.

However, many other causes of death have dramatically dropped (like road deaths, flu deaths etc). So, it's actually likely that more than 80k have died from COVID, but they hadn't been tested before they died.
75
22/12/2020 14:00:00 0 9
bbc
Have I missed something. What is an "excess death"?
96
Guy
22/12/2020 14:03:12 0 1
bbc
Did you read the whole article ? It is explained.
75
22/12/2020 14:00:00 0 9
bbc
Have I missed something. What is an "excess death"?
97
22/12/2020 14:03:30 0 1
bbc
Try reading the article
98
22/12/2020 14:03:40 1 3
bbc
Who cares about the UK figure?? It's as much use as the EU figure. I want comparators for the UK. Show me just how bad Boris and Westminster was compared to devolved nations.
126
22/12/2020 14:06:37 0 1
bbc
This is a good reference graphs are normalised for population https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps
333
22/12/2020 15:08:17 0 0
bbc
The population density of England is far higher than the other nations that make up the UK. Since number of interaction is an important factor in spreading the virus, that would need to be considered.
Population Densities of UK nations:
England 275 people per square km
Wales 151.4
Norther Ireland 133
Scotland 65
The population of London is almost twice that of the whole of Scotland
99
22/12/2020 14:03:44 16 3
bbc
Interesting to see what last year's average death rate was. Five year average figures will need to be adjusted for population growth..... have they been?
48
22/12/2020 13:54:13 12 2
bbc
Evidence?
100
22/12/2020 14:03:54 5 12
bbc
Look it up. It's not me saying it. If nothing else the population increase over a five yearbooks will increase deaths by 10%.