Covid curbs scandalous, says Revolution Bars chief
17/12/2020 | news | business | 324
Chief executive Rob Pitcher says the government is "sacrificing businesses and people's livelihoods".
1
17/12/2020 10:21:40 16 13
bbc
Yes, but isn't saving lives more important
4
17/12/2020 10:26:51 16 4
bbc
So why not close the schools then, if saving lives trumps all other considerations?
11
17/12/2020 10:30:39 3 2
bbc
But there is no evidence that bars and restaurants help spread covid. The worst places are supermarkets.
17
17/12/2020 10:34:16 3 2
bbc
A question government asks itself constantly. The answer is "it depends whose life". Some are seen as important while others are simply not so.
45
17/12/2020 11:02:17 3 0
bbc
which lives? Lockdown/restrictions causing deaths from inadequate cancer treatment/ too slow response to strokes/heart attacks, suicides depression. Don't these count of only coviditus deaths important?
66
17/12/2020 11:21:31 1 0
bbc
Resources are not finite, in a moral thought experiment I can either save 50 lives now for £1bn or 100 for £1bn in 10 years time but I cannot do both, which would you choose knowing that you are destined to send some people to their deaths ?
2
17/12/2020 10:21:51 37 14
bbc
With what I’ve seen when the pubs and restaurants where open in my area they where doing a fantastic job of keeping people safe, when I had to nip to the shops the other day at a large retail centre the place was rammed and not as safe as the pubs, they could have let them open till 6 and let them do lunch and early dinner to earn some income shutting completely is ridiculous.
3
17/12/2020 10:25:08 28 20
bbc
Sick to death hearing about pubs & bloody food......is that all UK can think about ?????
8
17/12/2020 10:28:14 26 11
bbc
Why do you think our population is one of the most obese/unhealthy worldwide (which has negatively impacted our COVID death rate).

I think a lot of us could benefit with these places being closed for a while
9
17/12/2020 10:28:27 7 4
bbc
It's not about pubs and food, it's about millions of jobs and the economy.
33
17/12/2020 10:56:25 3 3
bbc
Perhaps those working in the hospitality industry deserve to keep their jobs.
Are you so self centred that you haven't considered that?
279
17/12/2020 16:45:44 0 0
bbc
I'm not obsessed by pubs and food. However, I live alone & have been working at home alone for 9 months. I have no-one close by and for 9 months haven't been able to go to anyone's home - not that this was common earlier.
A pub or cafe is simply a venue where I can have some human contact. I NEED SOME!
Should I arrange to stand out for 2 hours in the dark, cold and rain to speak to another human?
1
17/12/2020 10:21:40 16 13
bbc
Yes, but isn't saving lives more important
4
17/12/2020 10:26:51 16 4
bbc
So why not close the schools then, if saving lives trumps all other considerations?
15
17/12/2020 10:33:41 2 0
bbc
So why not close fudging everything then?
142
17/12/2020 12:22:48 0 0
bbc
Schools should be closed until Easter - it is clear that the virus is spreading amongst school children rapidly. Unfortunately there will be no jobs left for school leavers in future as the hospitality, leisure, retail sector, which is a prime employer, will be on its knees.
5
17/12/2020 10:27:03 15 14
bbc
Oh I am shocked, head of a bar industry says lock downs are bad for business and they should stop....

it's not like they would have an ulterior motive now would they?
6
17/12/2020 10:27:07 32 21
bbc
Equally you could say bars are risking peoples lives for money.
71
17/12/2020 11:25:55 8 4
bbc
Supermarkets are the most common 'exposure setting' for Covid as official data shows 20% of patients had visited one in the week before testing positive. (17/12/2020)
304
17/12/2020 23:24:49 0 0
bbc
How many outbreaks in bars have killed 85 people ?

One hospital outbreak has ...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55248658

Being kept quiet on the back pages.
7
17/12/2020 10:27:38 10 8
bbc
Well the blond one did say F... business - looks like he meant it!
3
17/12/2020 10:25:08 28 20
bbc
Sick to death hearing about pubs & bloody food......is that all UK can think about ?????
8
17/12/2020 10:28:14 26 11
bbc
Why do you think our population is one of the most obese/unhealthy worldwide (which has negatively impacted our COVID death rate).

I think a lot of us could benefit with these places being closed for a while
3
17/12/2020 10:25:08 28 20
bbc
Sick to death hearing about pubs & bloody food......is that all UK can think about ?????
9
17/12/2020 10:28:27 7 4
bbc
It's not about pubs and food, it's about millions of jobs and the economy.
10
17/12/2020 10:29:56 7 2
bbc
The economy isn't just pubs and cafes mate....
9
17/12/2020 10:28:27 7 4
bbc
It's not about pubs and food, it's about millions of jobs and the economy.
10
17/12/2020 10:29:56 7 2
bbc
The economy isn't just pubs and cafes mate....
30
17/12/2020 10:50:28 6 0
bbc
You are correct; neither is it about McDonalds, KFCs and the many high street fast food joints either (we can all live without them as well). Many non-food shops portrayed themselves as essential and opened when that wasn't allowed and how a pub or bar with Covid Secure measures in place is treated differently to a supermarket who have removed all social distancing measures, is scandlous.
1
17/12/2020 10:21:40 16 13
bbc
Yes, but isn't saving lives more important
11
17/12/2020 10:30:39 3 2
bbc
But there is no evidence that bars and restaurants help spread covid. The worst places are supermarkets.
23
17/12/2020 10:44:36 4 1
bbc
"The worst places are supermarkets."

Where's your evidence for that? It seems extremely unlikely to me, people are only in supermarkets for a relatively short time, and they are generally not in close proximity to others. And most people are not there to get drunk and lose all sense of covid-awareness.
12
17/12/2020 10:31:37 35 17
bbc
He's right. The Govt seems happy to impose pay cuts and mass unemployment on private sector workers, while the politicians and bureaucrats continue to trouser full pay and other perks like gold-plated pensions. I wonder, if people like Whitty and Johnson and the public sector were to share in the financial pain (pay cuts) caused by the lockdowns, they would not clamour so loudly for lockdowns.
105
17/12/2020 11:52:32 20 1
bbc
Please don't tarnish all public sector workers with the same brush. Most simply implement the policy (e.g. those in your local tax office or job centre), rather than having any influence over it.
207
17/12/2020 13:16:06 2 0
bbc
They are too busy lapping up the good life paid for by the private sector.
13
17/12/2020 10:31:39 76 12
bbc
This is a huge part of our economy and people shouldn't be so quick to dismiss them. Good economy = good health care. The NHS doesnt run on goodwill & energy from clapping. There's a reason why countries with good economies have longer average life spans & better health generally. Good economies save lives too.
51
17/12/2020 11:04:42 36 37
bbc
Are you sure about that. USA has the best economy in the world and just look at how it's coping right now. over 300,000 COVID deaths now and rising fast.
167
17/12/2020 12:45:41 1 1
bbc
""This is a huge part of our economy and people shouldn't be so quick to dismiss them. Good economy = good health care. """

And thats exactly why we have poor health service, insufficient police, services etc. Because our economy is stuffed. Over £2,000,000,000,000 in debt and not counting BOE QE Vodoo. Record poverty etc etc. So where is this good economy?
254
17/12/2020 14:56:13 0 0
bbc
First of all, you have to be alive, only then are you able to have the opportunity to benefit from a a good economy
14
17/12/2020 10:32:39 15 6
bbc
"The boss of UK bar chain Revolution Bars has launched a scathing attack on the government's coronavirus curbs."

Which "government" is he attacking as all four nations of the UK are responsible for implementing their own rules. Is it England (Tories), Scotland (SNP), Wales (Labour) or Northern Ireland (DUP & Sinn Fein)?

Does he even know?
260
17/12/2020 15:02:31 0 0
bbc
Seeing as it’s now, 2 days into London’s tier 3, it’s the English Gov, otherwise it would have been sooner
4
17/12/2020 10:26:51 16 4
bbc
So why not close the schools then, if saving lives trumps all other considerations?
15
17/12/2020 10:33:41 2 0
bbc
So why not close fudging everything then?
16
17/12/2020 10:33:42 11 10
bbc
Yet another criticise the government rant, but with no constructive counter proposals. Bit like Starmer really.
1
17/12/2020 10:21:40 16 13
bbc
Yes, but isn't saving lives more important
17
17/12/2020 10:34:16 3 2
bbc
A question government asks itself constantly. The answer is "it depends whose life". Some are seen as important while others are simply not so.
18
17/12/2020 10:35:06 23 10
bbc
No wonder a pub chain thinks the governments decisions to impose lockdown are wrong, but it's clear to any onlooker that has seen the pictures of crowds flooding into streets at closing time and hugging each other, that feeding Brits alcohol leads to spread of Covid.

Having said that, they are correct in calling out the ineptness and insulting behaviour of the govt in managing all this.
46
JGC
17/12/2020 11:02:29 24 10
bbc
Nothing to do with the government, this is all about peoples welfare. In the end there is a group of people who abuse the rules and have initiated the 2nd spike which has compelled the shutdowns. Blame them if you want to blame someone
47
17/12/2020 11:03:15 0 5
bbc
80 seat majority who cares about your comment boris doesnt
85
17/12/2020 11:40:30 3 2
bbc
We were told back in the summer that when making decisions as to further measures that would be put in place to control the spread of coronavirus we would potentially face a choice between either shutting down the hospitality sector or closing the schools. This just seems to be an implementation of that announcement
19
17/12/2020 10:37:23 6 0
bbc
It’s not the lockdowns that don’t work, but the support schemes for businesses & workers
Ministers in the beginning were quick to say ‘non viable’ jobs will not be supported, but have had to reverse their decisions till March
Rishi is already on his ‘no more borrowing’ mission
I hope they fix this before next winter. I really think the health of an unemployed nation will put this winter to shame.
56
17/12/2020 11:09:23 4 3
bbc
And I hope Rishi will keep his hands in his pockets for a change
20
17/12/2020 10:34:14 22 9
bbc
he's right too....destroy parts of the economy and there won't be money for any type of health service
35
17/12/2020 10:57:17 10 23
bbc
stuff the pubs
37
17/12/2020 10:57:35 4 1
bbc
spot on
42
17/12/2020 11:01:15 1 3
bbc
As Boris says **** business
Removed
22
17/12/2020 10:40:32 9 6
bbc
The virus is spread by transmission. Transmission is facilitated by close contact. It is not possible to shovel alcohol into a group of people without them being all over one another by the end of the evening. Until all this is under control, businesses like this have to close. We can go a few weeks without a drink. It's less of a deal than spreading the virus is.
60
17/12/2020 10:47:19 3 5
bbc
It is obvious that the virus is getting out of control because of the spread amongst secondary school students who don't follow social distancing rules. Pubs don't allow children in. Therefore pubs should be reopened as a safe haven.
11
17/12/2020 10:30:39 3 2
bbc
But there is no evidence that bars and restaurants help spread covid. The worst places are supermarkets.
23
17/12/2020 10:44:36 4 1
bbc
"The worst places are supermarkets."

Where's your evidence for that? It seems extremely unlikely to me, people are only in supermarkets for a relatively short time, and they are generally not in close proximity to others. And most people are not there to get drunk and lose all sense of covid-awareness.
24
17/12/2020 10:45:31 4 4
bbc
i really do not know if the devolved powers understand what is happening in the world outside the devolved parliaments,
well the shops are closing never to re-open so they do not understand what riots will insure.
34
17/12/2020 10:57:01 2 8
bbc
bit silly you must be one of them brexiteer numpties
25
17/12/2020 10:47:52 44 10
bbc
Every sympathy for businesses in distress. No sympathy for 'coviditus' scaremongers. At the end of the day, funding for NHS and all benefits of a civilised society depend on a strong economy.
120
Neb
17/12/2020 11:58:23 21 17
bbc
Not true, NHS was created right after the war. Country was devastated, economy in tatters, huge debt burden.
193
17/12/2020 13:01:17 3 3
bbc
They were underfunded when we supposedly had a strong economy. It was certainly strong enough to give tax cuts for the rich. But that underfunding of the NHS like austerity for the poor and vulnerable is a political choice, not an economic one.

And having a collapsing NHS is not an option regardless of short term cost to the economy. A "strong economy" is worthless if it can't combat a pandemic.
267
AMc
17/12/2020 15:37:45 0 2
bbc
People are not getting access to the NHS because it is being overrun by Covid admissions.

Is this really so difficult to get.
Perhaps it'll only sink in when you're the one gargling your last breaths of life whilst stuck out in an Ambulance for 24hrs because you can't get in to A&E, but hey "Cheers and Bottoms up to that eh"!!??
26
17/12/2020 10:48:00 3 1
bbc
COVID curbs dont apply if you are part of the great and the good. Tobias Ellwood MP and Chair of the Commons Defence Committee, was pictured at an Iraq Britain Business Council event at the Cavalry and Guards Club in Piccadilly on Tuesday. The MP insisted he was visiting strictly as part of a "business meeting", despite his now-removed online diary entry describing the event as a 'Christmas party'
27
mm
17/12/2020 10:48:57 7 10
bbc
So who cares if a few overpriced bar chains go under. Sure, a lot of money goes through their tills but they add nothing to the true value of our economy as much of their stock is imported wine and beer, to say nothing of the cost burden alcohol places on the NHS. Yes jobs will be lost but that provides a pool of generally young customer focused labour with better prospects than pulling pints.
44
17/12/2020 11:01:52 5 0
bbc
Absolute nonsense.
53
17/12/2020 11:08:12 0 0
bbc
Spot on!
what a complete and utter idiot you are.... Removed
70
17/12/2020 11:25:54 2 0
bbc
Wow, you really do have a bigoted, selfish and wrong view. Pubs don't just create jobs behind a bar, the drinks maybe imported but that creates thousands of professional supply chain jobs. Yes alcohol can cause problems but the greater majority of people are responsible drinkers, those who have issues will still be able to buy from retail so this wont solve that problem either.
200
17/12/2020 13:09:38 0 0
bbc
Bear in mind that bars, pubs & cafés bring peole into towns where they spend money in other shops and help grow the economy, thus providing the funds for the NHS.
28
17/12/2020 10:49:38 1 2
bbc
'Drinks in wits out' dead easy really to understand this 'dead' being the important bit.
29
17/12/2020 10:50:00 23 12
bbc
Self interest rules. Money rules!

Ignore the virus - I want to open my bar.
32
17/12/2020 10:56:11 1 4
bbc
save up for a rainy day not your motto then
10
17/12/2020 10:29:56 7 2
bbc
The economy isn't just pubs and cafes mate....
30
17/12/2020 10:50:28 6 0
bbc
You are correct; neither is it about McDonalds, KFCs and the many high street fast food joints either (we can all live without them as well). Many non-food shops portrayed themselves as essential and opened when that wasn't allowed and how a pub or bar with Covid Secure measures in place is treated differently to a supermarket who have removed all social distancing measures, is scandlous.
50
17/12/2020 11:03:23 4 0
bbc
I agree with your point, but we should be coming down harder on these businesses breaking the restrictions and ruining it for everyone else.

Personally I don't know any one or any business that has actually received a fine or enforcement over breaking covid laws... which in my mind is scandalous
31
17/12/2020 10:55:40 2 4
bbc
oh poor little londoners are so special they want bailed out because of the virus,levelling up means the same happens to you as the north has suffered,bleeding hearts because their in that city doesnt mean your special,london has to many people looking for handouts,let them eat cake/
29
17/12/2020 10:50:00 23 12
bbc
Self interest rules. Money rules!

Ignore the virus - I want to open my bar.
32
17/12/2020 10:56:11 1 4
bbc
save up for a rainy day not your motto then
3
17/12/2020 10:25:08 28 20
bbc
Sick to death hearing about pubs & bloody food......is that all UK can think about ?????
33
17/12/2020 10:56:25 3 3
bbc
Perhaps those working in the hospitality industry deserve to keep their jobs.
Are you so self centred that you haven't considered that?
24
17/12/2020 10:45:31 4 4
bbc
i really do not know if the devolved powers understand what is happening in the world outside the devolved parliaments,
well the shops are closing never to re-open so they do not understand what riots will insure.
34
17/12/2020 10:57:01 2 8
bbc
bit silly you must be one of them brexiteer numpties
20
17/12/2020 10:34:14 22 9
bbc
he's right too....destroy parts of the economy and there won't be money for any type of health service
35
17/12/2020 10:57:17 10 23
bbc
stuff the pubs
300
17/12/2020 22:06:41 0 0
bbc
To lonely and sad to go to one chief
36
17/12/2020 10:57:33 13 5
bbc
Transmission starts in the home and then spreads via the schools. It happens every year with the flu. Close the schools! They are the biggest contributor to infection rates so why do we focus on a minority source rather than the biggest??
48
17/12/2020 11:03:17 3 1
bbc
We had this months ago with the hospitality is only. Spread at home much bigger percentage etc. That point schools were closed, so couldn't blame that.

If you follow that argument to its conclusion then if everybody stayed home the infection rates would be astronomical. But we all know its just BS the virus is picked up outside Shops Bars etc. then transferred at home.
20
17/12/2020 10:34:14 22 9
bbc
he's right too....destroy parts of the economy and there won't be money for any type of health service
37
17/12/2020 10:57:35 4 1
bbc
spot on
38
17/12/2020 10:58:57 4 2
bbc
I hope people are making a mental note of the ones that couldn't give a monkeys.

Revolution Bars Values
= Integrity - Just doing the right thing - because its the right thing to do.

Nice to see you openly admit to not walking the talk. A classic case of less substance more spin.
39
17/12/2020 10:59:27 12 3
bbc
Note the BBC reports that, after approval by the EMA, all 27 EU countries will start anti-Covid jabs on 27th December.

Will they update their misleading "Reality Check" stating the UK roll out 3 weeks earlier had nothing to do with Brexit?

Yes the UK could have triggered "emergency" legislation, but the REALITY is it just isn't the "done" thing which is why NONE of the 27 have already started!
57
17/12/2020 11:14:01 13 11
bbc
The EU mandates that each member has a public services broadcaster. The EU, supporting the EBU, of which the BBC is obviously a member, is the only thing keeping the BBC going. Now, you think that such an organisation can be truely impartial?
40
17/12/2020 11:00:51 2 0
bbc
And yet hospitality Ulster have stated that they support a full lockdown as a short hard lockdown that works at reducing cases is far less damaging to the economy than a stream of increased restrictions that accomplish nothing. This organisation should take a leaf out of HUs book

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55339234#comp-comments-button
41
17/12/2020 11:00:53 4 2
bbc
look at the tv channels all the toime talking to londoners as if the rest dont matter in england.south london,north london is where all the interviews are coming from,shame the bbc and sky dont get out and about talking with the english nation,better give london 100% furlough boris their not happy with your covid rules,they prefer to mingle in crowds and not distance at all,they deserve tier 3
20
17/12/2020 10:34:14 22 9
bbc
he's right too....destroy parts of the economy and there won't be money for any type of health service
42
17/12/2020 11:01:15 1 3
bbc
As Boris says **** business
43
17/12/2020 11:01:36 46 11
bbc
As in war there are casualties, however if you destroy your entire armoured divisions for the sake of saving a certain amount of lives then you have to reconsider your strategy when the price is too high and future lives will be put at risk, poverty has it's own cost in lives.

I wonder if we are paying to high a price, over to you trolley problem.
49
17/12/2020 11:03:17 20 6
bbc
Absolutely true, well said.
128
17/12/2020 12:05:29 3 4
bbc
Hospitality is the cannon fodder though... being sacrificed to protect the specialist divisions. Pubs and restaurants are among the easier businesses to start up once we get back to normality, there is no risk to them being "off-shored" during the closure.

They also happen to be the businesses that cause the most risk to the public, their sacrifice is saving, not costing, lives.
139
17/12/2020 12:18:37 3 0
bbc
As you insinuate, there must be a level at which the price we pay outweighs the benefits. The problem here is that we, the public, don't really have enough information to hand to draw an conclusion.

We vote in ur Gov't (UK, Scot, Wales & NI) and then need to hold them to account, that's how our democracy works and how we ensure we learn from such matters.
185
17/12/2020 12:56:25 2 4
bbc
Which "armoured divisions" have been destroyed. What a load of nonsensical rhetoric. Losing to Covid is not an option. Once you have made that decision, you do whatever it takes. Unfortunately our current process of straddling the fence is a disastrous compromise. We need to go all in to get rid of it. Like the Chinese did. Not this mincing about the Tories and their media insist on.
265
AMc
17/12/2020 15:33:42 1 1
bbc
so let's just get this clear, You're happy to actually, knowingly kill people to save a few bars and temporary jobs that will reappear shortly after the vaccine is fully distributed.

That is what you're saying.

Of course the Economic and Social impact is hard, but you're comparing that to people actually dying at the rate of 500+ EVERY DAY.

You need a serious reality check!
27
mm
17/12/2020 10:48:57 7 10
bbc
So who cares if a few overpriced bar chains go under. Sure, a lot of money goes through their tills but they add nothing to the true value of our economy as much of their stock is imported wine and beer, to say nothing of the cost burden alcohol places on the NHS. Yes jobs will be lost but that provides a pool of generally young customer focused labour with better prospects than pulling pints.
44
17/12/2020 11:01:52 5 0
bbc
Absolute nonsense.
1
17/12/2020 10:21:40 16 13
bbc
Yes, but isn't saving lives more important
45
17/12/2020 11:02:17 3 0
bbc
which lives? Lockdown/restrictions causing deaths from inadequate cancer treatment/ too slow response to strokes/heart attacks, suicides depression. Don't these count of only coviditus deaths important?
18
17/12/2020 10:35:06 23 10
bbc
No wonder a pub chain thinks the governments decisions to impose lockdown are wrong, but it's clear to any onlooker that has seen the pictures of crowds flooding into streets at closing time and hugging each other, that feeding Brits alcohol leads to spread of Covid.

Having said that, they are correct in calling out the ineptness and insulting behaviour of the govt in managing all this.
46
JGC
17/12/2020 11:02:29 24 10
bbc
Nothing to do with the government, this is all about peoples welfare. In the end there is a group of people who abuse the rules and have initiated the 2nd spike which has compelled the shutdowns. Blame them if you want to blame someone
151
Si
17/12/2020 12:28:40 1 1
bbc
The second spike was not caused by people, it was caused by winter. The next one will also be caused by winter. And the one after that and the one after that.
299
17/12/2020 22:06:15 0 0
bbc
What when schools opened in a complete free for all
303
17/12/2020 23:23:27 0 1
bbc
"In the end there is a group of people who abuse the rules"

Yes ... and by far the worst offenders are people managing hospitals & care homes. Who get off SCOT FREE every time dozens of people die.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55248658

"..where 85 people linked to the outbreak have died."

85

Whereas when Piers Corbyn organises a protest that no one dies from he is fined £10K.
18
17/12/2020 10:35:06 23 10
bbc
No wonder a pub chain thinks the governments decisions to impose lockdown are wrong, but it's clear to any onlooker that has seen the pictures of crowds flooding into streets at closing time and hugging each other, that feeding Brits alcohol leads to spread of Covid.

Having said that, they are correct in calling out the ineptness and insulting behaviour of the govt in managing all this.
47
17/12/2020 11:03:15 0 5
bbc
80 seat majority who cares about your comment boris doesnt
312
18/12/2020 09:32:52 0 0
bbc
That is absurd and presumably Sir Keir Starmer does? They BOTH do but,sadly, the huge government machine has made errors. A simple examination of European countries shows a vast amount of chopping and changing strategies - Scotland and Wales too. I have no doubt respective leaders get blame whereas they are trying to get the approach right
36
17/12/2020 10:57:33 13 5
bbc
Transmission starts in the home and then spreads via the schools. It happens every year with the flu. Close the schools! They are the biggest contributor to infection rates so why do we focus on a minority source rather than the biggest??
48
17/12/2020 11:03:17 3 1
bbc
We had this months ago with the hospitality is only. Spread at home much bigger percentage etc. That point schools were closed, so couldn't blame that.

If you follow that argument to its conclusion then if everybody stayed home the infection rates would be astronomical. But we all know its just BS the virus is picked up outside Shops Bars etc. then transferred at home.
43
17/12/2020 11:01:36 46 11
bbc
As in war there are casualties, however if you destroy your entire armoured divisions for the sake of saving a certain amount of lives then you have to reconsider your strategy when the price is too high and future lives will be put at risk, poverty has it's own cost in lives.

I wonder if we are paying to high a price, over to you trolley problem.
49
17/12/2020 11:03:17 20 6
bbc
Absolutely true, well said.
30
17/12/2020 10:50:28 6 0
bbc
You are correct; neither is it about McDonalds, KFCs and the many high street fast food joints either (we can all live without them as well). Many non-food shops portrayed themselves as essential and opened when that wasn't allowed and how a pub or bar with Covid Secure measures in place is treated differently to a supermarket who have removed all social distancing measures, is scandlous.
50
17/12/2020 11:03:23 4 0
bbc
I agree with your point, but we should be coming down harder on these businesses breaking the restrictions and ruining it for everyone else.

Personally I don't know any one or any business that has actually received a fine or enforcement over breaking covid laws... which in my mind is scandalous
138
17/12/2020 12:18:03 2 1
bbc
if it was true -there are numerous instances all over the country, gyms, pubs and the classic down in Barnes where a local council employee entrapped a landlord, look it up
181
17/12/2020 12:53:40 1 0
bbc
To adopt a one-size fits all approach to pubs, bars and other hospitality & leisure venues, does a complete disservice to those businesses who have implemented 100% of the Government recommended advice on how to adapt their premises in order to provide a safe environment. I agree, I wish more premises (shops) were tested but just because they aren't, the alternative likewise isn't correct either.
13
17/12/2020 10:31:39 76 12
bbc
This is a huge part of our economy and people shouldn't be so quick to dismiss them. Good economy = good health care. The NHS doesnt run on goodwill & energy from clapping. There's a reason why countries with good economies have longer average life spans & better health generally. Good economies save lives too.
51
17/12/2020 11:04:42 36 37
bbc
Are you sure about that. USA has the best economy in the world and just look at how it's coping right now. over 300,000 COVID deaths now and rising fast.
64
17/12/2020 11:18:54 15 10
bbc
as always, no distinction between deaths FROM covid and deaths WITH covid.
81
17/12/2020 11:34:38 9 4
bbc
The impact of coronavirus on the US is an indictment of the leadership of the US. If Trump hadn't downplayed coronavirus despite knowing full well how serious it was because he didn't want to panic people or seem weak then perhaps the US might not have 300,000 deaths
131
17/12/2020 12:06:48 10 4
bbc
That's not the point. The point is do the lockdown restrictions work. No they don't. They just damage the economy.
140
17/12/2020 12:20:07 8 0
bbc
Yes but the USA is financially strong enough to provide good healthcare. It just choses not to.
149
Si
17/12/2020 12:24:05 4 3
bbc
That would be because the USA has a very high number of obese people with Type 2. Also a lot of heart issues. All due to over eating and a bad diet.
This is why we have suffered badly too. Bad diet and bad lifestyle.
162
17/12/2020 12:42:58 4 6
bbc
America's economy is not doing well under Covid. Meanwhile China who prioritised lives are in growth. As are most of the countries in Africa where despite having less resources have prioritised restrictions.

Prioritising greed over saving lives has been an utter failure both for the families who have lost loved ones, and for the economy they are supposedly trying to save.
172
17/12/2020 12:48:27 1 3
bbc
MSM love to have a go at the US, particularly while Trump was in power
Fact is tho, deaths per capita, US is 10th, UK 9th, Spain 7th, Italy 3rd, Belgium 1st
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
191
17/12/2020 13:00:59 1 0
bbc
The UK is higher pro rata and the UK only counts up to 28 days
204
17/12/2020 13:14:29 1 1
bbc
No the US economy is not the best it is lagging behind the Chinese economy look at growth figures for economic performance 2020.
244
17/12/2020 14:35:37 1 0
bbc
0.10% of the population has died then. Thats not a lot is it? Similar to our rate and many others. a 0.1% death rate has cost us hundreds of billions, put hundreds of thousands on the dole, bankrupt tens of thousands of businesses, put the same on the streets/into destitution. My assessment is that's poor value for money!
245
17/12/2020 14:37:16 0 0
bbc
This is cos TRUMP, and yes they do have a strong economy but the man doesn't give a dam about people's lives. WAKE UP
52
17/12/2020 11:06:55 3 2
bbc
As long as these stories are about hospitality I'm ok. If it involves manufacturing, production etc. I'm not. Former easy to resurrect and plenty will invest - latter not so as it's too much like hard work
61
17/12/2020 11:15:53 1 1
bbc
" ...plenty will invest"
----
I'm not so sure. After seeing the way in which the Government has brutally suppressed the hospitality industry, with hopelessly inadequate compensation for investors and business owners, many investors will think twice about investing in this sector again.
It's probably safer to invest in Bitcoin.
27
mm
17/12/2020 10:48:57 7 10
bbc
So who cares if a few overpriced bar chains go under. Sure, a lot of money goes through their tills but they add nothing to the true value of our economy as much of their stock is imported wine and beer, to say nothing of the cost burden alcohol places on the NHS. Yes jobs will be lost but that provides a pool of generally young customer focused labour with better prospects than pulling pints.
53
17/12/2020 11:08:12 0 0
bbc
Spot on!
54
17/12/2020 11:08:45 7 5
bbc
I expect Revolution Bar chiefs would deem it less scandalous to see their profits increase and a higher number of Covid deaths!!
55
17/12/2020 11:09:07 5 4
bbc
People and only people spread this virus and where and when do people forget to adhere to the guidance to minimise transmission?

When meeting (and drinking) with other people.

Regrettably people have shown since the end of first lockdown they cannot be trusted to do the right thing and so harsher and harsher rules come in. It's our own fault.

Be the solution, not the problem!
19
17/12/2020 10:37:23 6 0
bbc
It’s not the lockdowns that don’t work, but the support schemes for businesses & workers
Ministers in the beginning were quick to say ‘non viable’ jobs will not be supported, but have had to reverse their decisions till March
Rishi is already on his ‘no more borrowing’ mission
I hope they fix this before next winter. I really think the health of an unemployed nation will put this winter to shame.
56
17/12/2020 11:09:23 4 3
bbc
And I hope Rishi will keep his hands in his pockets for a change
39
17/12/2020 10:59:27 12 3
bbc
Note the BBC reports that, after approval by the EMA, all 27 EU countries will start anti-Covid jabs on 27th December.

Will they update their misleading "Reality Check" stating the UK roll out 3 weeks earlier had nothing to do with Brexit?

Yes the UK could have triggered "emergency" legislation, but the REALITY is it just isn't the "done" thing which is why NONE of the 27 have already started!
57
17/12/2020 11:14:01 13 11
bbc
The EU mandates that each member has a public services broadcaster. The EU, supporting the EBU, of which the BBC is obviously a member, is the only thing keeping the BBC going. Now, you think that such an organisation can be truely impartial?
156
17/12/2020 12:33:54 2 0
bbc
EU regulations state that Public Service Media boards are answerable to parliment, so unless national legislation or poor parlimentary oversight allows, it should be perfectly possible to achieve a reasonable level of impartiality.

But i appreciate the take-over of a non Brexit HYS to push your unrelated personal agenda.
196
17/12/2020 13:03:23 3 0
bbc
"Now, you think that such an organisation can be truely impartial?"

Not clear which "organisation" you mean. If the BBC, having seen some reporting and the way is selects what to highlight, and what to omits, it does seem to have become politicised in it's reporting.
It is necessary to double check with many other sources, though not dodgy social media conspiracies fantasists
211
17/12/2020 13:22:01 0 3
bbc
Sell off the BBC and raise funds, let the BBC stand on its own see how it fares. Outdated, biased. License fee a joke.
58
17/12/2020 11:14:21 2 9
bbc
Rob Pitcher has a vested interest and would, it seems, sacrifice lives for the right to open his pubs.

I know that pubs play a role in the mental well-being of some, or so they would claim but the truth is that if every pub closed forever, the country would be healthier and more productive. We’d find new ways to enjoy social intercourse.
59
17/12/2020 11:14:35 28 3
bbc
I'm in the North East (Tier 3) and since last weekend, Covid-19 cases have begun to increase significantly across the region. Yet much of the hospitality industry has been closed since the national lockdown in November. We were doing better in September and October, when we were in Tier 2. But back then, people weren't hitting the shops en masse as they have done this month. Go figure.
118
17/12/2020 11:57:38 8 0
bbc
I figure that some sort of festival must be coming up.
127
17/12/2020 12:04:21 2 2
bbc
Imagine what it would be like then if hospitality was open
253
17/12/2020 14:51:37 0 0
bbc
It’s either that people are picking this up in shops, or they are back to mixing in doors. This is what track and trace is for, to see exactly who and where. Waiting for symptoms misses asymptomatic. Our Manchester rates are increasing, tier three till April by the looks of things. Nightmare
282
Rob
17/12/2020 17:08:10 0 0
bbc
That doesn't mean that hospitality doesn't help transmission. All social interactions do. The Govt have made many mistakes but they are trying to keep R below 1 and shopping, hospitality, education, seeing people at home all increase R. The Govt have prioritised education and shopping over hospitality. If you want to reopen hospitality, something else will have to give - close schools?
22
17/12/2020 10:40:32 9 6
bbc
The virus is spread by transmission. Transmission is facilitated by close contact. It is not possible to shovel alcohol into a group of people without them being all over one another by the end of the evening. Until all this is under control, businesses like this have to close. We can go a few weeks without a drink. It's less of a deal than spreading the virus is.
60
17/12/2020 10:47:19 3 5
bbc
It is obvious that the virus is getting out of control because of the spread amongst secondary school students who don't follow social distancing rules. Pubs don't allow children in. Therefore pubs should be reopened as a safe haven.
52
17/12/2020 11:06:55 3 2
bbc
As long as these stories are about hospitality I'm ok. If it involves manufacturing, production etc. I'm not. Former easy to resurrect and plenty will invest - latter not so as it's too much like hard work
61
17/12/2020 11:15:53 1 1
bbc
" ...plenty will invest"
----
I'm not so sure. After seeing the way in which the Government has brutally suppressed the hospitality industry, with hopelessly inadequate compensation for investors and business owners, many investors will think twice about investing in this sector again.
It's probably safer to invest in Bitcoin.
27
mm
17/12/2020 10:48:57 7 10
bbc
So who cares if a few overpriced bar chains go under. Sure, a lot of money goes through their tills but they add nothing to the true value of our economy as much of their stock is imported wine and beer, to say nothing of the cost burden alcohol places on the NHS. Yes jobs will be lost but that provides a pool of generally young customer focused labour with better prospects than pulling pints.
what a complete and utter idiot you are.... Removed
63
17/12/2020 11:18:34 33 3
bbc
With freedom comes responsibility. We don't need the government to dictate or run our lives. What matters is taking ownership and personal responsibility to act in a manner that is consistent with the safety of others. Good old common sense is what's required. Sadly the self entitled, offended by everything and sorry for nothing brigade like Kay Burley et al recklessly spoil it for everyone else.
152
17/12/2020 12:30:15 10 10
bbc
Exactly right. But they tried that in March, it didn't work, most of the population ignored the advice. A significant minority STILL don't even understand how the virus spreads or see why they should take any precautions. And since half the population take no responsibility for anything, decisions have to be taken for them.
261
17/12/2020 15:05:47 3 1
bbc
And it's precisely because personal responsibility is so fickle, and "common sense" is such a presumptuous concept, that freedom can't be an absolute that trumps all. If common sense meant that EVERYBODY had understood and then done "the right thing" from March onwards we wouldn't be in the mess we are still in now.
51
17/12/2020 11:04:42 36 37
bbc
Are you sure about that. USA has the best economy in the world and just look at how it's coping right now. over 300,000 COVID deaths now and rising fast.
64
17/12/2020 11:18:54 15 10
bbc
as always, no distinction between deaths FROM covid and deaths WITH covid.
92
17/12/2020 11:45:01 2 1
bbc
So how do america report their covid deaths then?
165
17/12/2020 12:44:27 3 3
bbc
How about EXCESS DEATHS which imply a death tally ten thousand HIGHER than the massaged government figures. People like you will only listen when it happens to you sadly.
65
17/12/2020 11:19:20 28 7
bbc
The main reason why some areas are doing well and others are not in terms of infection is down to whether people are following the rules. It is easy to blame Boris but short of using 'force' which we try not to do in this country he and the Govt. can only give the advice and EVERYONE has to take personal responsibility (most do) instead of being selfish and having no regard for society as a whole
257
17/12/2020 14:59:05 2 0
bbc
No, I disagree
There is something definitely not right, it’s either complete burnout from restrictions here, or shops are a larger risk than they’re saying
We were 85 per 100,000, at weekend, now we are at 90 something, even I’ve lost faith, nothing as I see has changed other than Christmas shopping. I don’t know though, there could be other things at play, no one knows
306
18/12/2020 08:26:22 0 0
bbc
Is it really related to how well everyone follows the rules? So people in Cornwall, Anglesey and Shetland are brilliant at following the rules? Or maybe population density is a bigger factor?
309
18/12/2020 09:01:38 0 0
bbc
Yes, I go with that. I live in a suburb of a major NE town which HAD the 4 th highest UK rate. I suspect in poorer areas compliance is minimal. My neighbour has had a gym garage going 4 most of the time but the other neighbour is good. In Wales social mixing, front doors open, is a way of life ( understandable)hence their rates. Other countries more severe.
1
17/12/2020 10:21:40 16 13
bbc
Yes, but isn't saving lives more important
66
17/12/2020 11:21:31 1 0
bbc
Resources are not finite, in a moral thought experiment I can either save 50 lives now for £1bn or 100 for £1bn in 10 years time but I cannot do both, which would you choose knowing that you are destined to send some people to their deaths ?
67
17/12/2020 11:23:31 7 1
bbc
It is clear that you are not going to please everyone. There needs to be a balance between protecting public health and protecting the economy. It is interesting you get the same people attack the government because these lockdowns damage the economy and quite often the same people attack the government when COVID deaths start to rise
124
17/12/2020 12:02:18 7 0
bbc
Remember there will always be more people against what the government does than supports it - it is the nature of our democracy. Yet it is still one of the most stable democracies in the world and long may it stay so
68
kr1
17/12/2020 11:23:46 3 3
bbc
Tough choice - sacrificing business and livelihoods or killing people
69
17/12/2020 11:24:39 2 3
bbc
We will not be going out but instead getting together with our two Daughters and their Husbands (+1 Grandson) at Christmas. We all agreed to 'self isolate' for the 6 days before which will significantly reduce the risk and we've all been being careful up to then by not visiting pubs, restaurants or going where there are crowds. Hospitality will get the jobs and customers back next year.
27
mm
17/12/2020 10:48:57 7 10
bbc
So who cares if a few overpriced bar chains go under. Sure, a lot of money goes through their tills but they add nothing to the true value of our economy as much of their stock is imported wine and beer, to say nothing of the cost burden alcohol places on the NHS. Yes jobs will be lost but that provides a pool of generally young customer focused labour with better prospects than pulling pints.
70
17/12/2020 11:25:54 2 0
bbc
Wow, you really do have a bigoted, selfish and wrong view. Pubs don't just create jobs behind a bar, the drinks maybe imported but that creates thousands of professional supply chain jobs. Yes alcohol can cause problems but the greater majority of people are responsible drinkers, those who have issues will still be able to buy from retail so this wont solve that problem either.
6
17/12/2020 10:27:07 32 21
bbc
Equally you could say bars are risking peoples lives for money.
71
17/12/2020 11:25:55 8 4
bbc
Supermarkets are the most common 'exposure setting' for Covid as official data shows 20% of patients had visited one in the week before testing positive. (17/12/2020)
95
17/12/2020 11:46:33 7 1
bbc
ShaunPH - 11:32
Where people are catching COVID - 20% Supermarkets, 26% in the workplace, 29% in care homes, 26% in educational facilities - 5.4% IN HOSPITALITY!

20% + 26% + 29% + 26% + 5.4% = 106.4%

When using percentages to reinforce your argument its always best to make sure your figures don't add up to more than 100% otherwise people might think that you've just made them up.
133
17/12/2020 12:08:27 4 1
bbc
Supermarkets are necessary... hospitality isn't. It is risk vs reward that matters, not just risk.
136
17/12/2020 12:12:46 5 0
bbc
Which shows you can do anything with statistics , does not prove they caught the virus in a supermarket
144
17/12/2020 12:23:46 0 0
bbc
Given that online shopping couldn't cope with demand, so shopping in store is a necessity, both matters are not really equal.
148
17/12/2020 12:26:43 4 0
bbc
It's astonishing the figure is so low. The proportion of the population who have visited a supermarket in the last week MUST be higher than 20%, so this proves the exact opposite of what you are arguing.
154
17/12/2020 12:31:41 2 1
bbc
Yes, but supermarkets are necessary in that without them, we would all starve!?
Much as I sympathise with the plight of pubs, they are not a necessity.
237
17/12/2020 14:08:57 6 0
bbc
Interesting viewpoint - I'm guessing that 99.9% of people testing positive had eaten breakfast, does that mean that eating breakfast causes Covid ?
72
17/12/2020 11:28:00 14 3
bbc
What's this all got to do with Brexit? Businesses are folding because of the restrictions imposed on them in response to the pandemic. I think its time now to re-evaluate the statistics, reasons and efficacy of lockdowns. A crippled economy will cause many more problems in the future.
73
17/12/2020 11:28:10 6 6
bbc
So 800,000 jobs lost (which will be replaced in many cases when the vaccine has protected the over 60s) is worse than 80,000 deaths?

I suspect Mr Pitcher and Mr Martin would think differently if their relations were the ones affected.

I feel for the people who have lost jobs but anyone who thinks that overwhelming the NHS is worth keeping pubs open for is either biased or deranged
74
17/12/2020 11:29:42 9 6
bbc
Closing down the country is killing more people in the long run and doing more damage than COVID ever will. Its time we started a phased reopening of society.

Lockdowns don't work. Especially when schools stay open
77
17/12/2020 11:31:21 3 3
bbc
Bang right. And haven’t they released today figures saying hospital beds are actually lower occupancy than this time last year
80
17/12/2020 11:33:37 1 1
bbc
"Lockdowns don't work. Especially when schools stay open"

Please will you explain why the infection rates dropped everywhere during lockdown and increased once they stopped. Please be specific and quote the regions that didn't conform to the observed national results that proved that lockdowns did work.

If the Govt pulls it's finger out we have 3 more months of this, that's all!
75
17/12/2020 11:29:48 14 4
bbc
So they ban pubs and restaurants but gladly allow thousands to mingle shoulder to shoulder and say come to regent street car free shopping days. Ludicrous thoughtless useless shower in charge.
320
18/12/2020 12:16:07 0 0
bbc
I think you'll find that the government didn't invite people to shopping days.

They say shops can open (because people generally spend less time in those than in restaurants), but can't legislate against the stupidity of businesses taking advantage of this, or the stupidity of people who unnecessarily go to busy shopping locations.
76
17/12/2020 11:29:51 5 10
bbc
Profits before lives.
Covidiot.
74
17/12/2020 11:29:42 9 6
bbc
Closing down the country is killing more people in the long run and doing more damage than COVID ever will. Its time we started a phased reopening of society.

Lockdowns don't work. Especially when schools stay open
77
17/12/2020 11:31:21 3 3
bbc
Bang right. And haven’t they released today figures saying hospital beds are actually lower occupancy than this time last year
113
17/12/2020 11:54:51 0 0
bbc
You're right - they haven't.
119
17/12/2020 11:58:09 0 0
bbc
That is only because they are having to keep beds vacant until required by covid patients and not performing routine surgery. Also a lot of beds previously were occupied by long-term elderly who have been moved out
78
17/12/2020 11:32:38 7 4
bbc
Where people are catching COVID - 20% Supermarkets, 26% in the workplace, 29% in care homes, 26% in educational facilities - 5.4% IN HOSPITALITY!
86
17/12/2020 11:40:34 3 3
bbc
Are you sure about this? Identify your source.
89
17/12/2020 11:43:32 1 0
bbc
20% + 26% + 29% + 26% + 5.4% = 106.4%

When using percentages to reinforce your argument its always best to make sure your figures don't add up to more than 100% otherwise people might think that you've just made them up.
109
17/12/2020 11:53:37 0 0
bbc
Difficult to catch in hospitality when hospitality is closed.
112
17/12/2020 11:54:50 0 0
bbc
Given that the list exceeds 100% and no mention of hospitals or at home gives me to think an error somewhere.

Also, what would the rate be for hospitality if there were no restrictions in place?
79
Ray
17/12/2020 11:33:24 10 2
bbc
Am I the only one who finds it odd that you can join thousands of others crowding into the shops but can't get a drink or a meal while your out doing it.
Agree or disagree with Bob Pitcher it's clear there are far more dangerous places than pubs. Schools, shops and supermarkets for starters and they are not under any restrictions.
88
17/12/2020 11:42:16 5 7
bbc
I don't have to go to the pub or a restaurant. I do need to buy food. I can do that when it is quietest or I can shop on line. Drinking and Eating out arer not essential. That's why these places need to remain closed.
74
17/12/2020 11:29:42 9 6
bbc
Closing down the country is killing more people in the long run and doing more damage than COVID ever will. Its time we started a phased reopening of society.

Lockdowns don't work. Especially when schools stay open
80
17/12/2020 11:33:37 1 1
bbc
"Lockdowns don't work. Especially when schools stay open"

Please will you explain why the infection rates dropped everywhere during lockdown and increased once they stopped. Please be specific and quote the regions that didn't conform to the observed national results that proved that lockdowns did work.

If the Govt pulls it's finger out we have 3 more months of this, that's all!
51
17/12/2020 11:04:42 36 37
bbc
Are you sure about that. USA has the best economy in the world and just look at how it's coping right now. over 300,000 COVID deaths now and rising fast.
81
17/12/2020 11:34:38 9 4
bbc
The impact of coronavirus on the US is an indictment of the leadership of the US. If Trump hadn't downplayed coronavirus despite knowing full well how serious it was because he didn't want to panic people or seem weak then perhaps the US might not have 300,000 deaths
99
17/12/2020 11:49:08 9 1
bbc
Ok, lets work through the G9 shall we
UK- Complete mess, 70k+ deaths
USA - complete mess, 300k+ deaths
France - Complete mess deaths rising fast
Germany - Not quite as big a mess but high number of deaths
Italy - Complete mess
Russia - struggling but hard to get correct info
China - source of the whole thing also hard to get correct info
Japan - actually doing ok
Canada - actually doing ok
.....
178
17/12/2020 12:51:28 1 2
bbc
MSM love to have a go at the US, particularly while Trump was in power
Fact is tho, deaths per capita, US is 10th, UK 9th, Spain 7th, Italy 3rd, Belgium 1st

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
82
17/12/2020 11:38:16 5 3
bbc
I love going to the pub but haven't since March, cos I'm 61 and have medical issues. These guys can bleat all they want but all I see are crowded pubs on the news, no social distancing, not following rules even when the pubs have them in place, especially in London, Manchester etc where they have high rates. I don't go to the shops for the same reason. And no I am not miserable! Vaccine=pub for me
117
17/12/2020 11:56:21 1 0
bbc
The news is misleading and sensationalist. There was plenty of space in October when I last went to a pub.
83
17/12/2020 11:39:26 2 6
bbc
Bars, restaurants and hospitality businesses have had little real prospect of surviving the pandemic since the first Lockdown in March. These businesses should have been mothballed / wound up months ago and the people retrained / redeployed to do something else. Chucking public money at them is wasteful. And taking out loans on them just details the inevitable.
93
17/12/2020 11:45:31 1 3
bbc
Sounds like your brain has been redeployed
Better to sacrifice their businesses than their lives...
94
17/12/2020 11:46:14 1 0
bbc
Zzz typical government drone repeating their mantra
111
17/12/2020 11:54:43 2 0
bbc
Now you're being silly. You can't pretend that heal;th and wealth are separate: you can't have one without the other.

It's only a moderately nuanced problem but you seem to want to avoid the simplest of them.
18
17/12/2020 10:35:06 23 10
bbc
No wonder a pub chain thinks the governments decisions to impose lockdown are wrong, but it's clear to any onlooker that has seen the pictures of crowds flooding into streets at closing time and hugging each other, that feeding Brits alcohol leads to spread of Covid.

Having said that, they are correct in calling out the ineptness and insulting behaviour of the govt in managing all this.
85
17/12/2020 11:40:30 3 2
bbc
We were told back in the summer that when making decisions as to further measures that would be put in place to control the spread of coronavirus we would potentially face a choice between either shutting down the hospitality sector or closing the schools. This just seems to be an implementation of that announcement
78
17/12/2020 11:32:38 7 4
bbc
Where people are catching COVID - 20% Supermarkets, 26% in the workplace, 29% in care homes, 26% in educational facilities - 5.4% IN HOSPITALITY!
86
17/12/2020 11:40:34 3 3
bbc
Are you sure about this? Identify your source.
87
17/12/2020 11:40:42 8 4
bbc
Pubs, restaurants and other hospitality businesses have been left hanging the whole year.

There is no evidence that transmission is taking place in restaurants or even pubs. Both have spent thousands to comply with safety, both were operating for months with no impact on the transmission rates.

Hospitality is paying the price to keep schools and uni's open when they could have operated online.
216
17/12/2020 13:30:43 0 0
bbc
"Hospitality is paying the price to keep schools and uni's open when they could have operated online."

I agree. Not to mention flying people in and out of the country which we already know has caused infections with an estimated 80% of infections in the UK now linked to a strain from Spain.

This partial lockdown strategy - defending one activity/attacking another is uselessly divisive.
79
Ray
17/12/2020 11:33:24 10 2
bbc
Am I the only one who finds it odd that you can join thousands of others crowding into the shops but can't get a drink or a meal while your out doing it.
Agree or disagree with Bob Pitcher it's clear there are far more dangerous places than pubs. Schools, shops and supermarkets for starters and they are not under any restrictions.
88
17/12/2020 11:42:16 5 7
bbc
I don't have to go to the pub or a restaurant. I do need to buy food. I can do that when it is quietest or I can shop on line. Drinking and Eating out arer not essential. That's why these places need to remain closed.
305
17/12/2020 23:29:53 0 1
bbc
Having enjoyment & socialising ARE ESSENTIAL.

Obviously not to someone of your mentality, but definitely to normal people.
78
17/12/2020 11:32:38 7 4
bbc
Where people are catching COVID - 20% Supermarkets, 26% in the workplace, 29% in care homes, 26% in educational facilities - 5.4% IN HOSPITALITY!
89
17/12/2020 11:43:32 1 0
bbc
20% + 26% + 29% + 26% + 5.4% = 106.4%

When using percentages to reinforce your argument its always best to make sure your figures don't add up to more than 100% otherwise people might think that you've just made them up.
Hospitality is non essential. Shopping for essentials is well - essential. That is why shops are open.

But to limit the spread of C-19 other non essential businesses are closed. This means the spread of C-19 is less than it would have been with pubs etc open - it is not rocket science - but clearly it still is too difficult for some to grasp...
100
17/12/2020 11:49:13 3 1
bbc
People like you have probably never entered a pub in your life just sit there watching your brain washing t v
106
17/12/2020 11:52:50 1 1
bbc
Misleading. It's remarkable how dead a town is when the cafés & pubs are closed. Where it's "non-essential" nobody goes and the only businesses open are the out-of-town supermarkets. When people get out of a habit they often stay out of it. The result will be that many of even the "essential" shops will close, with the concommitant reduction in everything but poverty & consequential health loss.
91
17/12/2020 11:44:57 2 2
bbc
Meanwhile MP's are caught boozing in private members clubs in Mayfair. One rule for them etc
104
17/12/2020 11:52:01 0 0
bbc
And 100s of people (including celebrities and social influencers) have been caught speeding, drug taking, and other anti social crimes.
But if doing the right thing requires personal responsibility I guess it's easier to do what you like and shout it's not fair he did it.
64
17/12/2020 11:18:54 15 10
bbc
as always, no distinction between deaths FROM covid and deaths WITH covid.
92
17/12/2020 11:45:01 2 1
bbc
So how do america report their covid deaths then?
83
17/12/2020 11:39:26 2 6
bbc
Bars, restaurants and hospitality businesses have had little real prospect of surviving the pandemic since the first Lockdown in March. These businesses should have been mothballed / wound up months ago and the people retrained / redeployed to do something else. Chucking public money at them is wasteful. And taking out loans on them just details the inevitable.
93
17/12/2020 11:45:31 1 3
bbc
Sounds like your brain has been redeployed
114
17/12/2020 11:55:11 1 0
bbc
More like yours has.
Better to sacrifice their businesses than their lives...
94
17/12/2020 11:46:14 1 0
bbc
Zzz typical government drone repeating their mantra
71
17/12/2020 11:25:55 8 4
bbc
Supermarkets are the most common 'exposure setting' for Covid as official data shows 20% of patients had visited one in the week before testing positive. (17/12/2020)
95
17/12/2020 11:46:33 7 1
bbc
ShaunPH - 11:32
Where people are catching COVID - 20% Supermarkets, 26% in the workplace, 29% in care homes, 26% in educational facilities - 5.4% IN HOSPITALITY!

20% + 26% + 29% + 26% + 5.4% = 106.4%

When using percentages to reinforce your argument its always best to make sure your figures don't add up to more than 100% otherwise people might think that you've just made them up.
263
17/12/2020 15:22:19 1 1
bbc
But you have misinterpreted the data, ShaunPH is suggesting people who had a positive test had visited these type venues in the week prior to testing positive. It's entirely possible for all those testing positive to have visited a supermarket in the week prior but also a quarter of them could also have visited a restaurant. Using your logic that would be 100% + 25% = 125% which is nonsense.
96
17/12/2020 11:46:58 1 0
bbc
For many businesses it is probably better that they force the closures and compensate rather than they carry on trading and fewer customers turn up.
Sure if you have a trendy bar in a student town you may get enough customers to make a profit, but so many other venues that rely on older regulars might open to empty bars. Maybe that's what the trendy chain owners want more cheap premises
97
17/12/2020 11:47:40 3 3
bbc
Dear Mr Pitcher. The NHS has been picking up the tab for your industry for years. Now its payback time and, naturally enough, you are getting it in the neck. Follow that science.
98
17/12/2020 11:48:18 3 2
bbc
Hospitality industry is nothing more than a glorified parasite selling overpriced undrinkable lagers and not very wholesome flavoursome foods. We very rarely eat out now owing to these reasons espacially as it is impossible to get a pint of Draught Bass anymore, the food just not up to the same standards that both my wife and I cook at home and have done so, long before the present problems.
102
17/12/2020 11:51:11 5 1
bbc
Wow you cook at home and both of you ? Applause. Why would you need the atmosphere of a vibrant fun hospitality venue ? How about a pint of personality ?
81
17/12/2020 11:34:38 9 4
bbc
The impact of coronavirus on the US is an indictment of the leadership of the US. If Trump hadn't downplayed coronavirus despite knowing full well how serious it was because he didn't want to panic people or seem weak then perhaps the US might not have 300,000 deaths
99
17/12/2020 11:49:08 9 1
bbc
Ok, lets work through the G9 shall we
UK- Complete mess, 70k+ deaths
USA - complete mess, 300k+ deaths
France - Complete mess deaths rising fast
Germany - Not quite as big a mess but high number of deaths
Italy - Complete mess
Russia - struggling but hard to get correct info
China - source of the whole thing also hard to get correct info
Japan - actually doing ok
Canada - actually doing ok
.....
130
17/12/2020 12:06:05 4 4
bbc
Countries with worse deaths, USA, Brazil, Mexico, UK have highest obesity rates.
India (pop. 1.4bn), Pakistan (200m+), Bangladesh (160m+), Indonesis (270m) have low obesity rates, and low covid deaths.

The infirm and obese should shield, they're the ones at risk.
158
17/12/2020 12:36:37 2 4
bbc
You make no account of population sizes, just blindly quoting (predominantly geriatrric) deaths.....
184
17/12/2020 12:55:28 3 1
bbc
G9? Never really existed and even the G8 became the G7 in 2014.
China never being a member and Russia suspended in 2014 when it became G7.
As for China's present situation handling the pandemic, it is clear from foreign reporters there how well it is doing. Some even have time to pander to rapture fanatics allegations
Germany better than Canada, 283 compared to 364 per million, Japan under 21
296
17/12/2020 19:38:44 0 0
bbc
You've only got to read the Stats...
Death rate in confirmed c19 cases
75+ 11.6%
65-74 - 3.1%
45.64 - 0.5
15-44 0.03

Factor into the above people who have had covid, survived but haven't been tested and don't form part of the above stats.
People who are part of the above stats who were obese/already suffering from some form of life changing illness
and you got the rest of us paying the price..
Hospitality is non essential. Shopping for essentials is well - essential. That is why shops are open.

But to limit the spread of C-19 other non essential businesses are closed. This means the spread of C-19 is less than it would have been with pubs etc open - it is not rocket science - but clearly it still is too difficult for some to grasp...
100
17/12/2020 11:49:13 3 1
bbc
People like you have probably never entered a pub in your life just sit there watching your brain washing t v
worked in pubs for years when I was younger.