Fraud victims' pay deducted for money they don't owe
17/12/2020 | news | business | 59
Letters sent from the DWP demanding repayment of benefits they have never claimed or received.
1
Tex
17/12/2020 10:35:24 9 7
bbc
Only to be expected from our Public Servants.
13
SOH
17/12/2020 11:54:48 5 1
bbc
On behalf of others I have had many dealings with DWP.
Most civil servants are OK, some are highly capable, a very few are awful - as in any large organization.

As a government department they must implement government policy.

Often they know the failings within the system but have neither the responsibility nor (political) power to change those failings.
15
17/12/2020 12:24:52 0 0
bbc
No it's not and mostly isn't. Of course there are exceptions as with any walk of life.
2
17/12/2020 10:49:51 28 0
bbc
Easier to recoup the fraudulently claimed monies from the alleged recipient than it is to actually introduce checks to see whether the named applicant actually applied, or seek out and prosecute the fraudsters.

Not a good look for the DWP.
3
17/12/2020 10:50:41 37 1
bbc
DWP should be able to trace which bank account the money has been sent to and then recover the money. The Banks are not properly identifying people when opening accounts and should be responsible for returning funds due to failures under money laundering rules. The same has happened with large numbers of fraudulent claims for the Bounce Back loans. What are the police doing about this, nothing!
16
17/12/2020 12:26:38 4 0
bbc
Agree. If DWP (or Gov in general) cannot achieve this, how can they expect others to do better.
28
17/12/2020 13:37:11 0 1
bbc
Maybe the DWP should have made sure they are paying who they thought they are paying. The banks just execute the transfer instructions they receive.
41
17/12/2020 15:29:38 1 0
bbc
"The Banks are not properly identifying people ..."
True. I was getting loads of letters to my house addressed to someone else. The return address was my bank's loan chasing dept. - I've been a customer at my address for 20 years. If they had properly checked their database they would have seen the chap taking the loan out did not live here. Kicked up a fuss and got £75 compensation. Sloppy bank.
42
17/12/2020 15:49:29 0 0
bbc
What more can banks do beyond what they already do? If a bank opens an account in a fictitious name for a fraudster, having failed to apply due diligence in identifying the applicant, they lay themselves open to a civil action for conversion if funds are subsequently misappropriated through the account. They may also face possible criminal prosecution under the Money Laundering Regulations.
4
17/12/2020 10:53:11 33 1
bbc
Quite disgraceful to start deducting money without victims first being able to put their case and the DWP to prove it's them. Where is the judicial oversight ?

A Kafkaesque nightmare for those involved.
5
17/12/2020 11:01:31 32 2
bbc
DWP need to trace every bank account paid and recover the money from that Bank - then perhaps Banks will implement tougher systems to help it not happening over and over again
18
17/12/2020 12:29:03 9 3
bbc
If DWP fail to catch this at source, why should banks be responsible? That's only one step back from blaming the victims.
6
17/12/2020 11:25:30 14 0
bbc
Inform your employer that fraud has taken place and that any deduction will therefore be fraudulent. Get them on your side. These organisations are far slower to pay back anything taken in error than they take it!

(I had a similar issue concerning a student loan that I'd not had, the Student Loan Company failed to pay attention when informed of this and attempted to take money from my wages.)
7
17/12/2020 11:26:16 16 1
bbc
Sadly DWP haven’t got a clue about the real world, and they are understaffed and disorganised!
26
17/12/2020 13:18:17 9 2
bbc
Sadly I don't think it's the quantity of staff that is to blame, but the quality of staff.
You walk into your average civil service office and you'll find there's a much higher staffing level per task compared to the private sector.

Amongst the obligatory 'zany' tea cup to fit in with the idle working ethos.
The level of ineptitude running this country is unreal. UK gov et al is a joke.
8
17/12/2020 11:38:56 14 6
bbc
A Tory Gvt making their problem your problem. Fancy that.
19
17/12/2020 12:32:55 9 3
bbc
I don’t care for Politicians regardless of their Politics, but I don’t blame the Tories, the rest don’t care a damn either, or they would be creating a department that is sympathetic with those in need. The government loses billions from fraud in one department or the other, but only try to get récompense from the vulnerable.
20
17/12/2020 12:33:24 2 1
bbc
It's news to me the DWP is part of the Tory (or any other) party. The party in power may decide on policy, it's Civil Servants who are responsible for implementing it. It's not like the CS is headed up by lowly paid clerks, they are well paid for their work.
9
17/12/2020 11:43:22 23 0
bbc
Where is the proper checking by DWP?!

When we were due to receive money from our solicitor we had to prove to them who we were & that we had had the bank account the funds were going to for at least 12 months...... & that was for our own money from the sale of a house!!!

DWP appears to just hand money out, guess it’s easy when it’s not your money!
38
17/12/2020 15:04:07 2 0
bbc
The difference is the solicitor is acting in your (and their) interests as if the money goes missing somebody is liable (and out of pocket) and it won't be the bank!
10
17/12/2020 11:49:09 10 0
bbc
The Circus of dysfunctionality grows bigger by the day....
11
17/12/2020 11:50:14 12 1
bbc
it is easier to get money back from the victims than the perpetrators.
As commented earlier, the banks should be held responsible for all the fraudulent activities.
But, this will never happen as banks are sacred and cannot be held responsible.
It is no good making it a Tory issues as we all know the Labour did nothing with 2008 bank collapse.
As usual it is Honest people who suffer.
22
17/12/2020 12:40:29 11 0
bbc
Fair play. Banks like other businesses have a responsibility for preventing systematic fraud (failed in 2008), but individual cases may just be carelessness, the unwitting/unwise or even fraudsters trying it on. A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.

You're right though, it's always the honest and careful who pay.
24
17/12/2020 12:53:19 2 1
bbc
This article is not actually about banks but why should the banks be responsible when one of their customers is conned by a criminal into giving away their money? Are you just looking to pin the loss on whoever has the deepest pockets, rather than on who is actually at fault? This post will, of course, be howled down by all those who believe it's always someone else's responsibility but their own.
12
17/12/2020 11:52:13 10 8
bbc
Utterly despicable treatment of these poor victims by the govt. is this what we are leaving the EU for, so people haven't recourse to European courts?
1
Tex
17/12/2020 10:35:24 9 7
bbc
Only to be expected from our Public Servants.
13
SOH
17/12/2020 11:54:48 5 1
bbc
On behalf of others I have had many dealings with DWP.
Most civil servants are OK, some are highly capable, a very few are awful - as in any large organization.

As a government department they must implement government policy.

Often they know the failings within the system but have neither the responsibility nor (political) power to change those failings.
14
17/12/2020 12:23:12 1 1
bbc
"Often they know the failings within the system but have neither the responsibility nor (political) power to change those failings."

Or will. On political power, they certainly shouldn't have, it was (I assume still is) against the Civil Service code to show political favouritism, rightly so. It is evident that some of those spending somebody else's money are less careful than spending their own.
21
17/12/2020 12:35:04 0 1
bbc
Then may be they should stand up and be counted. It’s the wrong things that we should be screaming about.
13
SOH
17/12/2020 11:54:48 5 1
bbc
On behalf of others I have had many dealings with DWP.
Most civil servants are OK, some are highly capable, a very few are awful - as in any large organization.

As a government department they must implement government policy.

Often they know the failings within the system but have neither the responsibility nor (political) power to change those failings.
14
17/12/2020 12:23:12 1 1
bbc
"Often they know the failings within the system but have neither the responsibility nor (political) power to change those failings."

Or will. On political power, they certainly shouldn't have, it was (I assume still is) against the Civil Service code to show political favouritism, rightly so. It is evident that some of those spending somebody else's money are less careful than spending their own.
1
Tex
17/12/2020 10:35:24 9 7
bbc
Only to be expected from our Public Servants.
15
17/12/2020 12:24:52 0 0
bbc
No it's not and mostly isn't. Of course there are exceptions as with any walk of life.
3
17/12/2020 10:50:41 37 1
bbc
DWP should be able to trace which bank account the money has been sent to and then recover the money. The Banks are not properly identifying people when opening accounts and should be responsible for returning funds due to failures under money laundering rules. The same has happened with large numbers of fraudulent claims for the Bounce Back loans. What are the police doing about this, nothing!
16
17/12/2020 12:26:38 4 0
bbc
Agree. If DWP (or Gov in general) cannot achieve this, how can they expect others to do better.
17
17/12/2020 12:27:02 13 1
bbc
With all the complaints and mistakes, the arrogant attitude by the DWP is it fit for purpose. Do we want a department that prides itself in bullying the disabled and under privileged. I met a person who worked there, who says they fist pump in the air, if they can claw money back from a person, who they have judged/juried and condemned, without hearing any defence.
5
17/12/2020 11:01:31 32 2
bbc
DWP need to trace every bank account paid and recover the money from that Bank - then perhaps Banks will implement tougher systems to help it not happening over and over again
18
17/12/2020 12:29:03 9 3
bbc
If DWP fail to catch this at source, why should banks be responsible? That's only one step back from blaming the victims.
48
17/12/2020 21:58:54 1 1
bbc
Because the bank has probably not carried out basic identification and verification procedures. If it had then it would quickly be able to identify the perpetrators of the fraud and be able to pass on this information when properly requested.
8
17/12/2020 11:38:56 14 6
bbc
A Tory Gvt making their problem your problem. Fancy that.
19
17/12/2020 12:32:55 9 3
bbc
I don’t care for Politicians regardless of their Politics, but I don’t blame the Tories, the rest don’t care a damn either, or they would be creating a department that is sympathetic with those in need. The government loses billions from fraud in one department or the other, but only try to get récompense from the vulnerable.
8
17/12/2020 11:38:56 14 6
bbc
A Tory Gvt making their problem your problem. Fancy that.
20
17/12/2020 12:33:24 2 1
bbc
It's news to me the DWP is part of the Tory (or any other) party. The party in power may decide on policy, it's Civil Servants who are responsible for implementing it. It's not like the CS is headed up by lowly paid clerks, they are well paid for their work.
13
SOH
17/12/2020 11:54:48 5 1
bbc
On behalf of others I have had many dealings with DWP.
Most civil servants are OK, some are highly capable, a very few are awful - as in any large organization.

As a government department they must implement government policy.

Often they know the failings within the system but have neither the responsibility nor (political) power to change those failings.
21
17/12/2020 12:35:04 0 1
bbc
Then may be they should stand up and be counted. It’s the wrong things that we should be screaming about.
11
17/12/2020 11:50:14 12 1
bbc
it is easier to get money back from the victims than the perpetrators.
As commented earlier, the banks should be held responsible for all the fraudulent activities.
But, this will never happen as banks are sacred and cannot be held responsible.
It is no good making it a Tory issues as we all know the Labour did nothing with 2008 bank collapse.
As usual it is Honest people who suffer.
22
17/12/2020 12:40:29 11 0
bbc
Fair play. Banks like other businesses have a responsibility for preventing systematic fraud (failed in 2008), but individual cases may just be carelessness, the unwitting/unwise or even fraudsters trying it on. A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.

You're right though, it's always the honest and careful who pay.
23
17/12/2020 12:46:20 19 0
bbc
Banks, the DWP and numerous others are always quick enough to exploit the benefit of technology or other costs savings. It's time they used some of the money saved to make sure replacement systems & processes are robust and safe, so that we can all share the benefit. "Computer say no" is not an acceptable answer.
11
17/12/2020 11:50:14 12 1
bbc
it is easier to get money back from the victims than the perpetrators.
As commented earlier, the banks should be held responsible for all the fraudulent activities.
But, this will never happen as banks are sacred and cannot be held responsible.
It is no good making it a Tory issues as we all know the Labour did nothing with 2008 bank collapse.
As usual it is Honest people who suffer.
24
17/12/2020 12:53:19 2 1
bbc
This article is not actually about banks but why should the banks be responsible when one of their customers is conned by a criminal into giving away their money? Are you just looking to pin the loss on whoever has the deepest pockets, rather than on who is actually at fault? This post will, of course, be howled down by all those who believe it's always someone else's responsibility but their own.
32
17/12/2020 14:21:50 1 0
bbc
Are the banks carrying out proper checks when opening accounts (as they are required to under anti money laundering laws)?

If yes then they shouldn't be liable but if no then they should be!
25
17/12/2020 13:15:51 22 0
bbc
It's an outrage that HMRC can receive information about identity theft and benefit fraud, but then still help themselves to money direct from a victims pay packet that they aren't entitled to. And anyone who has tried to get money they are owed from HMRC - it seems to go one way very easily and very very slowly in the other direction.
29
17/12/2020 14:15:01 7 2
bbc
Would never have happened 30/40 years ago slack standards and slack staff
39
17/12/2020 15:11:27 0 0
bbc
Do you mean DWP as this article is all about them and not HMRC.
7
17/12/2020 11:26:16 16 1
bbc
Sadly DWP haven’t got a clue about the real world, and they are understaffed and disorganised!
26
17/12/2020 13:18:17 9 2
bbc
Sadly I don't think it's the quantity of staff that is to blame, but the quality of staff.
You walk into your average civil service office and you'll find there's a much higher staffing level per task compared to the private sector.

Amongst the obligatory 'zany' tea cup to fit in with the idle working ethos.
The level of ineptitude running this country is unreal. UK gov et al is a joke.
27
17/12/2020 13:29:52 15 0
bbc
Fraud is enabled by banks and the payee

HMRC as payee out to verify identity of the claimant

Banks as enabler of the transfer ought to verify identity of recipient

If recipient is not claimant there is fraud

HMRC and Bank fraud prevention systems

Must check
Identity of recipient = identity of claimant

Fraudsters are clever but banks and HMRC should be able to spot them.
40
17/12/2020 15:13:27 1 0
bbc
The payee in this case is DWP. The article as nothing to do with HMRC as this concerns Universal Credit not "Tax Credits".
3
17/12/2020 10:50:41 37 1
bbc
DWP should be able to trace which bank account the money has been sent to and then recover the money. The Banks are not properly identifying people when opening accounts and should be responsible for returning funds due to failures under money laundering rules. The same has happened with large numbers of fraudulent claims for the Bounce Back loans. What are the police doing about this, nothing!
28
17/12/2020 13:37:11 0 1
bbc
Maybe the DWP should have made sure they are paying who they thought they are paying. The banks just execute the transfer instructions they receive.
36
17/12/2020 14:48:31 0 0
bbc
As somebody who in an average working day sends out 30 payments and on really busy days can easily send 60 I can honestly say there are some safeguards in the banking system and some glaring holes which need fixing (I won't detail here as don't want to give tips) and the whole system is set up to put the risk onto the payee.
25
17/12/2020 13:15:51 22 0
bbc
It's an outrage that HMRC can receive information about identity theft and benefit fraud, but then still help themselves to money direct from a victims pay packet that they aren't entitled to. And anyone who has tried to get money they are owed from HMRC - it seems to go one way very easily and very very slowly in the other direction.
29
17/12/2020 14:15:01 7 2
bbc
Would never have happened 30/40 years ago slack standards and slack staff
30
17/12/2020 14:16:49 5 0
bbc
I send out loads of payments every working day and we have some checks we carry out to make sure that the money is going where it should and most of it is basic common sense!

I suspect that the DWP staff don't have time to check what are small amounts to them but large amounts to people they try to recoup them.

The banks cost cutting as also made it easier for fraudsters.
31
17/12/2020 14:16:56 7 0
bbc
Ah a Government Department...…… you have your answer.... next case.
24
17/12/2020 12:53:19 2 1
bbc
This article is not actually about banks but why should the banks be responsible when one of their customers is conned by a criminal into giving away their money? Are you just looking to pin the loss on whoever has the deepest pockets, rather than on who is actually at fault? This post will, of course, be howled down by all those who believe it's always someone else's responsibility but their own.
32
17/12/2020 14:21:50 1 0
bbc
Are the banks carrying out proper checks when opening accounts (as they are required to under anti money laundering laws)?

If yes then they shouldn't be liable but if no then they should be!
35
17/12/2020 14:45:04 1 0
bbc
I agree with you. However, I have concerns that the basic concept of remoteness of damage is, increasingly, being overlooked in favour of chasing those best positioned to stand a loss irrespective of their degree of culpability. It's all too easy to lay a loss on those with the deepest pockets; a popular outcome rather than an equitable one.
33
17/12/2020 14:41:12 10 0
bbc
Stolen identity fraud can only work with the tacit agreement of the banks.

They will now only open new bank accounts via telephone calls and on-line applications.

If the banks were interested, all of this fraud could be traced very easily and the criminals brought to book quickly. Why don't the banks do something effective about it?

One does not wish to presume the obvious answer.
50
18/12/2020 07:31:41 1 0
bbc
Banks are trying to strike a balance between very rigorous identity checks and making the process of opening an account reasonably easy for legitimate customers. Unfortunately fraudsters are cunning and constantly adapt their techniques.
34
17/12/2020 14:44:07 16 0
bbc
To be clear, it is not the individual who has been defrauded, it is the DWP. That they attempt to recover their losses from individuals without proper investigation should be treated as further criminality.
32
17/12/2020 14:21:50 1 0
bbc
Are the banks carrying out proper checks when opening accounts (as they are required to under anti money laundering laws)?

If yes then they shouldn't be liable but if no then they should be!
35
17/12/2020 14:45:04 1 0
bbc
I agree with you. However, I have concerns that the basic concept of remoteness of damage is, increasingly, being overlooked in favour of chasing those best positioned to stand a loss irrespective of their degree of culpability. It's all too easy to lay a loss on those with the deepest pockets; a popular outcome rather than an equitable one.
37
17/12/2020 14:58:26 1 0
bbc
I agree with you. It is all too easy too go after those with the deepest pockets rather than those responsible. Also since these are organised criminal gangs the DWP needs experienced investigators to deal with this.
28
17/12/2020 13:37:11 0 1
bbc
Maybe the DWP should have made sure they are paying who they thought they are paying. The banks just execute the transfer instructions they receive.
36
17/12/2020 14:48:31 0 0
bbc
As somebody who in an average working day sends out 30 payments and on really busy days can easily send 60 I can honestly say there are some safeguards in the banking system and some glaring holes which need fixing (I won't detail here as don't want to give tips) and the whole system is set up to put the risk onto the payee.
35
17/12/2020 14:45:04 1 0
bbc
I agree with you. However, I have concerns that the basic concept of remoteness of damage is, increasingly, being overlooked in favour of chasing those best positioned to stand a loss irrespective of their degree of culpability. It's all too easy to lay a loss on those with the deepest pockets; a popular outcome rather than an equitable one.
37
17/12/2020 14:58:26 1 0
bbc
I agree with you. It is all too easy too go after those with the deepest pockets rather than those responsible. Also since these are organised criminal gangs the DWP needs experienced investigators to deal with this.
9
17/12/2020 11:43:22 23 0
bbc
Where is the proper checking by DWP?!

When we were due to receive money from our solicitor we had to prove to them who we were & that we had had the bank account the funds were going to for at least 12 months...... & that was for our own money from the sale of a house!!!

DWP appears to just hand money out, guess it’s easy when it’s not your money!
38
17/12/2020 15:04:07 2 0
bbc
The difference is the solicitor is acting in your (and their) interests as if the money goes missing somebody is liable (and out of pocket) and it won't be the bank!
57
18/12/2020 16:27:25 0 0
bbc
I’m aware, what I’m saying is - As custodians of taxpayers money the DWP should be undertaking similarly extensive checking to protect taxpayers & their interests.

If the money goes missing (as it appears to have done) DWP appear to be liable.....
25
17/12/2020 13:15:51 22 0
bbc
It's an outrage that HMRC can receive information about identity theft and benefit fraud, but then still help themselves to money direct from a victims pay packet that they aren't entitled to. And anyone who has tried to get money they are owed from HMRC - it seems to go one way very easily and very very slowly in the other direction.
39
17/12/2020 15:11:27 0 0
bbc
Do you mean DWP as this article is all about them and not HMRC.
27
17/12/2020 13:29:52 15 0
bbc
Fraud is enabled by banks and the payee

HMRC as payee out to verify identity of the claimant

Banks as enabler of the transfer ought to verify identity of recipient

If recipient is not claimant there is fraud

HMRC and Bank fraud prevention systems

Must check
Identity of recipient = identity of claimant

Fraudsters are clever but banks and HMRC should be able to spot them.
40
17/12/2020 15:13:27 1 0
bbc
The payee in this case is DWP. The article as nothing to do with HMRC as this concerns Universal Credit not "Tax Credits".
44
17/12/2020 16:39:39 0 0
bbc
The difference here is wholly semantic. It is "the government".
3
17/12/2020 10:50:41 37 1
bbc
DWP should be able to trace which bank account the money has been sent to and then recover the money. The Banks are not properly identifying people when opening accounts and should be responsible for returning funds due to failures under money laundering rules. The same has happened with large numbers of fraudulent claims for the Bounce Back loans. What are the police doing about this, nothing!
41
17/12/2020 15:29:38 1 0
bbc
"The Banks are not properly identifying people ..."
True. I was getting loads of letters to my house addressed to someone else. The return address was my bank's loan chasing dept. - I've been a customer at my address for 20 years. If they had properly checked their database they would have seen the chap taking the loan out did not live here. Kicked up a fuss and got £75 compensation. Sloppy bank.
3
17/12/2020 10:50:41 37 1
bbc
DWP should be able to trace which bank account the money has been sent to and then recover the money. The Banks are not properly identifying people when opening accounts and should be responsible for returning funds due to failures under money laundering rules. The same has happened with large numbers of fraudulent claims for the Bounce Back loans. What are the police doing about this, nothing!
42
17/12/2020 15:49:29 0 0
bbc
What more can banks do beyond what they already do? If a bank opens an account in a fictitious name for a fraudster, having failed to apply due diligence in identifying the applicant, they lay themselves open to a civil action for conversion if funds are subsequently misappropriated through the account. They may also face possible criminal prosecution under the Money Laundering Regulations.
43
ajv
17/12/2020 16:14:58 6 0
bbc
We always get blamed by the authorities for their inadequacies. Lack of care and concern for their "customers". Must try harder. It shouldn't always be down to the victim to prove it is the DWP error.
40
17/12/2020 15:13:27 1 0
bbc
The payee in this case is DWP. The article as nothing to do with HMRC as this concerns Universal Credit not "Tax Credits".
44
17/12/2020 16:39:39 0 0
bbc
The difference here is wholly semantic. It is "the government".
45
Bob
17/12/2020 18:05:35 2 0
bbc
Its easier for the DWP and its political overlords to blame the people rather than their financial industry paymasters. This is yet another situation where gullible people need protecting from themselves and direct action taken AGAINST crooked and corrupt politicians.
46
17/12/2020 18:21:37 6 0
bbc
It's been going on for months
My son had money deducted for a 2nd student loan he didn't have
Despite telling DWP, & presuming it'd been 'flagged' as spurious, it continued since August
Each time he contacted them he got a new 'Little Britainesque' 'Computer says no' type response
They didn't take his 'identity theft' seriously until last week but 'will rectify it soon'
Compensation & apology due?
47
17/12/2020 21:19:58 5 0
bbc
Surely this fraudulently claimed money has been paid by DWP into a bank account, which must be owned by someone and should be traceable to the fraudsters responsible.
49
18/12/2020 07:27:40 2 0
bbc
Bank accounts are often set up with stolen or fake id and the money rapidly transferred and then withdrawn as cash.
18
17/12/2020 12:29:03 9 3
bbc
If DWP fail to catch this at source, why should banks be responsible? That's only one step back from blaming the victims.
48
17/12/2020 21:58:54 1 1
bbc
Because the bank has probably not carried out basic identification and verification procedures. If it had then it would quickly be able to identify the perpetrators of the fraud and be able to pass on this information when properly requested.
47
17/12/2020 21:19:58 5 0
bbc
Surely this fraudulently claimed money has been paid by DWP into a bank account, which must be owned by someone and should be traceable to the fraudsters responsible.
49
18/12/2020 07:27:40 2 0
bbc
Bank accounts are often set up with stolen or fake id and the money rapidly transferred and then withdrawn as cash.
33
17/12/2020 14:41:12 10 0
bbc
Stolen identity fraud can only work with the tacit agreement of the banks.

They will now only open new bank accounts via telephone calls and on-line applications.

If the banks were interested, all of this fraud could be traced very easily and the criminals brought to book quickly. Why don't the banks do something effective about it?

One does not wish to presume the obvious answer.
50
18/12/2020 07:31:41 1 0
bbc
Banks are trying to strike a balance between very rigorous identity checks and making the process of opening an account reasonably easy for legitimate customers. Unfortunately fraudsters are cunning and constantly adapt their techniques.
52
18/12/2020 10:32:47 0 0
bbc
This is true. Customer ‘advocacy’ groups shouted for years that the process for opening a bank account was ‘too long’, ‘too obstructive’ or ‘excluded vulnerable customers’.
So, the banks try to make it easier and the same customer groups are now whining about fraud. Can’t win.
51
18/12/2020 08:09:08 3 2
bbc
we need a tightening up of ID in general. a National ID Card has been suggested, but then we get loads of "it's an invasion on privacy" whines.
But with an ID card required to rent or buy property, open and operate a bank or building society account. hold a UK driving license, access NHS treatment, get state benefits. loads of other problems are eliminated.
run the country for the legal majority.
50
18/12/2020 07:31:41 1 0
bbc
Banks are trying to strike a balance between very rigorous identity checks and making the process of opening an account reasonably easy for legitimate customers. Unfortunately fraudsters are cunning and constantly adapt their techniques.
52
18/12/2020 10:32:47 0 0
bbc
This is true. Customer ‘advocacy’ groups shouted for years that the process for opening a bank account was ‘too long’, ‘too obstructive’ or ‘excluded vulnerable customers’.
So, the banks try to make it easier and the same customer groups are now whining about fraud. Can’t win.
53
18/12/2020 13:01:05 1 0
bbc
The government urgently needs to appoint a regulator dedicated to online fraud, chasing the perpetrators and the recovery of stolen money.

It beats me that the DWP should seek redress when victims can clearly show from their bank statements that the fraudulent claims money never entered their accounts.
54
18/12/2020 13:18:25 2 0
bbc
Absolute disaster. DWP needs a much stronger method to check the identity of those applying. Especially with the unprecedented power they have to auto deduct money from your pay. The problem is protection of your rights helps the fraudsters equally. My card was used to buy something fraudulently, and the selling company cannot provide me or the police the address it was sent to! Crazy system!
55
18/12/2020 15:10:33 0 1
bbc
Never thought I would be in favour of a national identity card scheme, but this seems to be the only way forward to stop the many cases of fraudulent activity currently being perpetrated in the UK.
Although they could be seen as a loss of liberty etc, I genuinely believe that the majority of law abiding UK citizens would have no objection to their introduction.
56
18/12/2020 16:24:06 0 1
bbc
In think ID cards are a great idea. Could have picture & basic info on (name, address, DoB etc).

Could also make them chip & pin for added security & require them to be shown when accessing all services (NHS etc).
59
18/12/2020 20:48:19 0 0
bbc
Wouldn't have helped even if it did exist as the application is online no face to face meetings and no way to attach supporting documents in a way that the DWP accept them as they want physical copies that are then entered into the files for future use.

The biggest problem with the last one was the amount of info involved and you had to pay for them.
55
18/12/2020 15:10:33 0 1
bbc
Never thought I would be in favour of a national identity card scheme, but this seems to be the only way forward to stop the many cases of fraudulent activity currently being perpetrated in the UK.
Although they could be seen as a loss of liberty etc, I genuinely believe that the majority of law abiding UK citizens would have no objection to their introduction.
56
18/12/2020 16:24:06 0 1
bbc
In think ID cards are a great idea. Could have picture & basic info on (name, address, DoB etc).

Could also make them chip & pin for added security & require them to be shown when accessing all services (NHS etc).
38
17/12/2020 15:04:07 2 0
bbc
The difference is the solicitor is acting in your (and their) interests as if the money goes missing somebody is liable (and out of pocket) and it won't be the bank!
57
18/12/2020 16:27:25 0 0
bbc
I’m aware, what I’m saying is - As custodians of taxpayers money the DWP should be undertaking similarly extensive checking to protect taxpayers & their interests.

If the money goes missing (as it appears to have done) DWP appear to be liable.....
58
18/12/2020 17:57:30 1 0
bbc
IDS said in 2011 Uni Cred WOULD stop people nicking money.This seems to have made things worse.Why?As you can only get Uni Cred ON LINE so there is no face to face meetings.If there was face to face meetings this would not be happening as the DWP would see who was really getting the money and they would need all their details including bank accounts.IDS no longer cares hes out of the DWP now.
55
18/12/2020 15:10:33 0 1
bbc
Never thought I would be in favour of a national identity card scheme, but this seems to be the only way forward to stop the many cases of fraudulent activity currently being perpetrated in the UK.
Although they could be seen as a loss of liberty etc, I genuinely believe that the majority of law abiding UK citizens would have no objection to their introduction.
59
18/12/2020 20:48:19 0 0
bbc
Wouldn't have helped even if it did exist as the application is online no face to face meetings and no way to attach supporting documents in a way that the DWP accept them as they want physical copies that are then entered into the files for future use.

The biggest problem with the last one was the amount of info involved and you had to pay for them.