MPs slam 'woeful' plans to recover Covid-19 loans
16/12/2020
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The Public Accounts Committee says taxpayers will lose out because billions of pounds may never be recovered.
Is this the same committee that has 5 Labour Members and 9 Conservative members?
Chaired by Labour, but more Tories than Labour on committee. So democratic, nearly.
Stuff happens in an emergency. We have still not been paid back after Gordon Brown’s tax-payer bail-out of RBS.
I think you may find the whole world economy was going over a cliff at the time, that included the UK which may come as a surprise.
Yes, and who has been in power since 2010 and failed to recover money from the banks ?
Can you answer me that one ???
Can you answer me that one ???
That's different of course, because it wasn't the "Tories".
It's the easiest thing in the world to dish out money. It's a totally different ball game getting it back.
Dishing out money for no good reason is basic incompetence from our government.
Only 5 Covid deaths in the whole of London (populist 9 million) on Saturday, but they have locked us down again.
Only 5 Covid deaths in the whole of London (populist 9 million) on Saturday, but they have locked us down again.
Well, they had never elevated a cold virus into plague territory before, so they were bound to get somethings wrong.
Hopefully the voodoo scientists and authoritarians will keep a lid on the massive overreaction next time.
Hopefully the voodoo scientists and authoritarians will keep a lid on the massive overreaction next time.
Some people are just born to criticise. No solutions, just problems.
Personally, I wouldn't object to a struggling small business bending the rules a little, because the majority in this category have been caught between a rock & a hard place. What I detest is the 'professional' fraudsters, who're probably not even within our shores & nor too is the money, but as usual, it'll be the easy targets on the doorstep that'll be taken to task.
We wasted over £400BN on an ineffective response to Covid
Deaths just followed the expected Gompertz Curve based on seasons without deviating (just like Flu)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EpSonKVXUAASuRK?format=png
Interventions (e.g. Lockdowns/Tiers) had no discernible effect.
If you can see any impact then I have a Wheres Wally book for you
Hint : Downing Street (when not on holiday)
Deaths just followed the expected Gompertz Curve based on seasons without deviating (just like Flu)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EpSonKVXUAASuRK?format=png
Interventions (e.g. Lockdowns/Tiers) had no discernible effect.
If you can see any impact then I have a Wheres Wally book for you
Hint : Downing Street (when not on holiday)
Thats why No Lockdown Sweden looks so similar to the multi interventions UK
https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?time=2020-03-16..latest&country=SWE~GBR®ion=World&deathsMetric=true&interval=smoothed&perCapita=true&smoothing=7
The virus will naturally evolve to be more infectious but less lethal and in time become just like its earlier Coronavirus Cold sibblings.
https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?time=2020-03-16..latest&country=SWE~GBR®ion=World&deathsMetric=true&interval=smoothed&perCapita=true&smoothing=7
The virus will naturally evolve to be more infectious but less lethal and in time become just like its earlier Coronavirus Cold sibblings.
We wasted over £400BN on an ineffective response to Covid
Deaths just followed the expected Gompertz Curve based on seasons without deviating (just like Flu)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EpSonKVXUAASuRK?format=png
Interventions (e.g. Lockdowns/Tiers) had no discernible effect.
If you can see any impact then I have a Wheres Wally book for you
Hint : Downing Street (when not on holiday)
Deaths just followed the expected Gompertz Curve based on seasons without deviating (just like Flu)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EpSonKVXUAASuRK?format=png
Interventions (e.g. Lockdowns/Tiers) had no discernible effect.
If you can see any impact then I have a Wheres Wally book for you
Hint : Downing Street (when not on holiday)
Thats why No Lockdown Sweden looks so similar to the multi interventions UK
https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?time=2020-03-16..latest&country=SWE~GBR®ion=World&deathsMetric=true&interval=smoothed&perCapita=true&smoothing=7
The virus will naturally evolve to be more infectious but less lethal and in time become just like its earlier Coronavirus Cold sibblings.
https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?time=2020-03-16..latest&country=SWE~GBR®ion=World&deathsMetric=true&interval=smoothed&perCapita=true&smoothing=7
The virus will naturally evolve to be more infectious but less lethal and in time become just like its earlier Coronavirus Cold sibblings.
The Swedish constitution prevented the Swedish government from imposing a lockdown it wasn't an option available to their government.
Any chance you've compared the number of cases between each of the Scandinavian countries as that provides a much better basis for comparison to Sweden? Although Norway, Finland and Denmark all have far fewer Covid cases than Sweden after they imposed lockdowns
Any chance you've compared the number of cases between each of the Scandinavian countries as that provides a much better basis for comparison to Sweden? Although Norway, Finland and Denmark all have far fewer Covid cases than Sweden after they imposed lockdowns
Steve-T
Personally, I wouldn't object to a struggling small business bending the rules a little, because the majority in this category have been caught between a rock & a hard place. What I detest is the 'professional' fraudsters, who're probably not even within our shores..
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I would agree its like those that get a 50% pay rise before being sacked, break the rules they devised but go un-punished.
Personally, I wouldn't object to a struggling small business bending the rules a little, because the majority in this category have been caught between a rock & a hard place. What I detest is the 'professional' fraudsters, who're probably not even within our shores..
+
I would agree its like those that get a 50% pay rise before being sacked, break the rules they devised but go un-punished.
Ah yes, lockdowns should only happen if deaths are spiking even though by that point it is already too late. death spikes occur 3 weeks after covid spikes due to delay, you are better acting while cases go up and bed occupancy increases than wait till its too late
You do realise that today’s death and from infections 3 to 6 weeks ago ?
It’s not about the current death rate, it’s about what it’s likely to be in a few weeks, London R rate is running out of control if it does not come down a huge increase in hospitalisation and death will follow.
It’s not about the current death rate, it’s about what it’s likely to be in a few weeks, London R rate is running out of control if it does not come down a huge increase in hospitalisation and death will follow.
How much involvement does the Uncivil Service have in these schemes, it’s obvious they think they are in charge.
Bring back Cummings.
Bring back Cummings.
How much involvement does the Uncivil Service have in these schemes, it’s obvious they think they are in charge.
Bring back Cummings.
Bring back Cummings.
I didn't get any grants, any loans, nothing.
I didn't need them because I run my business well and have reserves.
The Government handed out cash with no thought as to how to get it back.
Now they are going to tax my home, my business and my pension to fill the gap.
It's just BS.
I didn't need them because I run my business well and have reserves.
The Government handed out cash with no thought as to how to get it back.
Now they are going to tax my home, my business and my pension to fill the gap.
It's just BS.
You have to remember that theses committees are actually run by the Labour party who want to do everything they can to hurt the government at every turn.I am one who has not been able to get one penny since March and am very happy in the way the Government has acted in many of the things they have done
The PAC has just become a Labour mouthpiece for Meg Hillier.
In Spring Labour and the MSM were screeching about how businesses were going bust because applications were taking so long, and the credit checks were too strict. Now they are complaining the rules are too lax and open to fraud.
They are the party of hindsight.
In Spring Labour and the MSM were screeching about how businesses were going bust because applications were taking so long, and the credit checks were too strict. Now they are complaining the rules are too lax and open to fraud.
They are the party of hindsight.
Thats why No Lockdown Sweden looks so similar to the multi interventions UK
https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?time=2020-03-16..latest&country=SWE~GBR®ion=World&deathsMetric=true&interval=smoothed&perCapita=true&smoothing=7
The virus will naturally evolve to be more infectious but less lethal and in time become just like its earlier Coronavirus Cold sibblings.
https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?time=2020-03-16..latest&country=SWE~GBR®ion=World&deathsMetric=true&interval=smoothed&perCapita=true&smoothing=7
The virus will naturally evolve to be more infectious but less lethal and in time become just like its earlier Coronavirus Cold sibblings.
The Swedish constitution prevented the Swedish government from imposing a lockdown it wasn't an option available to their government.
Any chance you've compared the number of cases between each of the Scandinavian countries as that provides a much better basis for comparison to Sweden? Although Norway, Finland and Denmark all have far fewer Covid cases than Sweden after they imposed lockdowns
Any chance you've compared the number of cases between each of the Scandinavian countries as that provides a much better basis for comparison to Sweden? Although Norway, Finland and Denmark all have far fewer Covid cases than Sweden after they imposed lockdowns
More Billions lost through poor management, the crims must be laughing all the way.
The health alarmists seized the agenda from the off. The MSM - cheerleader in chief the BBC - picked up the chants and helped to put the fear of God into ordinary people, and the government panicked and put us all into lockdown.
In March Sunak put together a reasonable set of measures to mitigate the damage.
Since then any attempt to bring a sense of sanity to the debate is howled down!
In March Sunak put together a reasonable set of measures to mitigate the damage.
Since then any attempt to bring a sense of sanity to the debate is howled down!
How much involvement does the Uncivil Service have in these schemes, it’s obvious they think they are in charge.
Bring back Cummings.
Bring back Cummings.
Some people are just born to criticise. No solutions, just problems.
You have to remember that theses committees are actually run by the Labour party who want to do everything they can to hurt the government at every turn.I am one who has not been able to get one penny since March and am very happy in the way the Government has acted in many of the things they have done
How much involvement does the Uncivil Service have in these schemes, it’s obvious they think they are in charge.
Bring back Cummings.
Bring back Cummings.
How would these MP'S survive in the real world.......
The answer, of course, is that they wouldn't ... that's why very few of them have ever had a proper job outside politics - the same goes for all those 'staff' that they employ from within their own family or the family of other MPs.
And now we have multiple generations of MPs, Stephen Kinnock, Hilary Benn, Nick Hurd etc to name a few - even less real world experience.
And now we have multiple generations of MPs, Stephen Kinnock, Hilary Benn, Nick Hurd etc to name a few - even less real world experience.
Yes the small business should be scrutinised as to how much they were given and if it was legit, BUT, so should all the PPE and track and trace beneficiaries where money was literally thrown at MP's friends and families "businesses" for poor or non-existent resources.
This government has treated our tax-payers money as their personal piggy bank, to give to their favourites, literally £millions
This government has treated our tax-payers money as their personal piggy bank, to give to their favourites, literally £millions
Its only the taxpayers money after all???
Incompetence with a Glazed Cherry on Top..
Incompetence with a Glazed Cherry on Top..
Yet another rabid labour supporters comment here.
I’ve just paid my corporation tax today. I used to feel I was making a small, but useful contribution to help the smooth running of the country. Today I felt I was throwing my money down the drain to be squandered by an incompetent Government run by a bunch of nincompoops.
The climate of any organisation comes from the top. Johnson's just not bothered is he? Money's never been an issue in his life so it has no value. And certainly when it's not his.
You can't expect responsibility from people who lead consequence-free lives.
You can't expect responsibility from people who lead consequence-free lives.
Thoughtful
11:56
You have to remember that theses committees are actually run by the Labour party who want to do everything they can to hurt the government at every turn.
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Absolute nonsense, there are 16 members of the PAC, 9 of who are conservatives.
11:56
You have to remember that theses committees are actually run by the Labour party who want to do everything they can to hurt the government at every turn.
---
Absolute nonsense, there are 16 members of the PAC, 9 of who are conservatives.
You have to remember that theses committees are actually run by the Labour party who want to do everything they can to hurt the government at every turn.I am one who has not been able to get one penny since March and am very happy in the way the Government has acted in many of the things they have done
How would these MP'S survive in the real world.......
The answer, of course, is that they wouldn't ... that's why very few of them have ever had a proper job outside politics - the same goes for all those 'staff' that they employ from within their own family or the family of other MPs.
And now we have multiple generations of MPs, Stephen Kinnock, Hilary Benn, Nick Hurd etc to name a few - even less real world experience.
And now we have multiple generations of MPs, Stephen Kinnock, Hilary Benn, Nick Hurd etc to name a few - even less real world experience.
When the Furlough plans were first announced people were up in arms. What about me, it doesn't go far enough, I don't have those records! So, it changed over the months. Became easier to claim and by more people. The BBC rolled out someone new who wasn't getting it nearly everyday. Well, less evidence needed makes fraud easier. The ones at fault here are those who claimed fraudulently.
Your description of the BBC as cheerleader of every individual hardship case is totally accurate.
Seldom ( if ever!) have I seen or heard on BBC a balanced report suggesting that the Chancellor has in fact covered far more edge cases than any other European country. And those he struggled to cover were largely because the systems to manage fraud for those groups could not be put in place
Seldom ( if ever!) have I seen or heard on BBC a balanced report suggesting that the Chancellor has in fact covered far more edge cases than any other European country. And those he struggled to cover were largely because the systems to manage fraud for those groups could not be put in place
Those defending the govt by attacking the Public Accounts Committee for doing its job should read the following extracted from this page:-
In October, the National Audit Office, the government's spending watchdog, estimated that up to 60% of emergency pandemic loans may never be repaid. It said as much as £26bn could be lost from fraud, organised crime or default.
Taxpayers are footing the bill
In October, the National Audit Office, the government's spending watchdog, estimated that up to 60% of emergency pandemic loans may never be repaid. It said as much as £26bn could be lost from fraud, organised crime or default.
Taxpayers are footing the bill
Dishing out money for no good reason is basic incompetence from our government.
Only 5 Covid deaths in the whole of London (populist 9 million) on Saturday, but they have locked us down again.
Only 5 Covid deaths in the whole of London (populist 9 million) on Saturday, but they have locked us down again.
Since no loans have yet fallen due for repayment, why is there as yet any problem at all?
And, if there are later problems re repayment due to fraud, surely that's the fraudsters' fault and nobody else's?
And, if there are later problems re repayment due to fraud, surely that's the fraudsters' fault and nobody else's?
If the Government is lending taxpayers money it should carry out due diligence to ensure those it lends to will repay it. If you’re running a successful business that’s what you are doing. The Government is being incompetent with the money given to them in taxes. It’s due to successfully run businesses that have the money to squander. Maybe you can understand why I’m pi*sed of with them.
No, if I come along saying lend me some money, wouldn't you do the odd check to see if you thought I could pay it back? The Government didn't but not only that, they TOLD businesses not to check!
When the Furlough plans were first announced people were up in arms. What about me, it doesn't go far enough, I don't have those records! So, it changed over the months. Became easier to claim and by more people. The BBC rolled out someone new who wasn't getting it nearly everyday. Well, less evidence needed makes fraud easier. The ones at fault here are those who claimed fraudulently.
Your description of the BBC as cheerleader of every individual hardship case is totally accurate.
Seldom ( if ever!) have I seen or heard on BBC a balanced report suggesting that the Chancellor has in fact covered far more edge cases than any other European country. And those he struggled to cover were largely because the systems to manage fraud for those groups could not be put in place
Seldom ( if ever!) have I seen or heard on BBC a balanced report suggesting that the Chancellor has in fact covered far more edge cases than any other European country. And those he struggled to cover were largely because the systems to manage fraud for those groups could not be put in place
If the Government is lending taxpayers money it should carry out due diligence to ensure those it lends to will repay it. If you’re running a successful business that’s what you are doing. The Government is being incompetent with the money given to them in taxes. It’s due to successfully run businesses that have the money to squander. Maybe you can understand why I’m pi*sed of with them.
This was rushed because it had to be, if not all those real business that have these loans would have gone bust which would have cost a lot more than 26 billion. This is what media/business asked for at the time now you complain when you were given what you wanted
I thought labour kept saying the government help to business did not go far enough, now the chair of the PAC, who seems to be a labour MP, is complaining that the government gave too much money to businesses.
I feel sorry for our current government, they really are in a no win situation. Labour and their supporters will complain no matter what the government do.
I feel sorry for our current government, they really are in a no win situation. Labour and their supporters will complain no matter what the government do.
It's what oppositions do. As unprincipled as those in power, but less accountable. When are the opposition ever taken to task for their dishonesty!
Dishing out money for no good reason is basic incompetence from our government.
Only 5 Covid deaths in the whole of London (populist 9 million) on Saturday, but they have locked us down again.
Only 5 Covid deaths in the whole of London (populist 9 million) on Saturday, but they have locked us down again.
Hadn't realised that Labour has been in power for the last decade so now totally understand why the Tories/Brexit supporters are blaming them for all the countries current woe's. Sarcasm aside, remember when the Tories blamed the Labour party for the "World" financial meltdown in 2008 (US sub prime), also hadn't realised they were in charge of the whole worlds banking practises.
Just typical of the people give them a chance to cheat and they will. This is great just add it to the fraud of benefit cheats, what's new. Give people something for nothing and they will take it, meanwhile the hard working Tax payer has to fund it. I know of people who got thousands from this and boast about how easy it was. If you try to tell authorities about these people they dont want to know
If only someone had the wit to get them to supply evidence of actual loss. Still maybe they can do it retrospectively or is that deemed unfair to fraudsters or just too embarrassing to do so.
Plan, What Plan. A Government voted in by 45% of the population based on a 3 word slogan "Get Brexit Done". What do people expect from this bunch of liars?
The Brexit bonus will cover the bill for this.
The government need to start directing the Brexit bonus to cover this loss.
The government need to start directing the Brexit bonus to cover this loss.
Their is NO Brexit bonus! They made that bit (and all the rest of the Brexit BS) up! As it happens, this has nothing to do with Brexit but it indicates an attitude of mind. Spend money which you haven't got on something that does little good and blame something or someone else when reality bites.
Hopefully the new laws about recovering debts from companies that get 'Phoenixed' (i.e. liquidated and then restarted under a new name by the same directors) will limit this to some degree.
Sunak the successful businessman on the back of his wife's father.
Why buy a scratch card, Fill in a government form and win every time.
Come 1st Jan with no deal, the dosh will come rolling in faster than HM Gov can count it.
That's what Gove said yesterday and he doesn't mislead or lie.
Come on 1st Jan, and let's start rolling in those Brexit greenbacks.
The leavers said we'd be in clover come January, our own money and billions saved every month to spend on what we want.
I do hope Mr Farage and Mr Cummings weren't exaggerating.
That's what Gove said yesterday and he doesn't mislead or lie.
Come on 1st Jan, and let's start rolling in those Brexit greenbacks.
The leavers said we'd be in clover come January, our own money and billions saved every month to spend on what we want.
I do hope Mr Farage and Mr Cummings weren't exaggerating.
"I do hope Mr Farage and Mr Cummings weren't exaggerating." They weren't exaggerating at all. It's going to be disaster because they said it would be wonderful. You just take the opposite of what they say.
Come 1st Jan with no deal, the dosh will come rolling in faster than HM Gov can count it.
That's what Gove said yesterday and he doesn't mislead or lie.
Come on 1st Jan, and let's start rolling in those Brexit greenbacks.
The leavers said we'd be in clover come January, our own money and billions saved every month to spend on what we want.
I do hope Mr Farage and Mr Cummings weren't exaggerating.
That's what Gove said yesterday and he doesn't mislead or lie.
Come on 1st Jan, and let's start rolling in those Brexit greenbacks.
The leavers said we'd be in clover come January, our own money and billions saved every month to spend on what we want.
I do hope Mr Farage and Mr Cummings weren't exaggerating.
Why is it many welfare fraudsters seem to have looted 6 figures before actually caught and sometimes given a derisory sentence? Given the high level of white collar crime ,fraud and sheer naked greed in this country - Did anyone seriously doubt a massive abuse of taxpayers money would be a hall mark of this crisis .
I’ve just paid my corporation tax today. I used to feel I was making a small, but useful contribution to help the smooth running of the country. Today I felt I was throwing my money down the drain to be squandered by an incompetent Government run by a bunch of nincompoops.
Crack down on fraud? Britain invented fraud, so should be good at it.
Just typical of the people give them a chance to cheat and they will. This is great just add it to the fraud of benefit cheats, what's new. Give people something for nothing and they will take it, meanwhile the hard working Tax payer has to fund it. I know of people who got thousands from this and boast about how easy it was. If you try to tell authorities about these people they dont want to know
I thought labour kept saying the government help to business did not go far enough, now the chair of the PAC, who seems to be a labour MP, is complaining that the government gave too much money to businesses.
I feel sorry for our current government, they really are in a no win situation. Labour and their supporters will complain no matter what the government do.
I feel sorry for our current government, they really are in a no win situation. Labour and their supporters will complain no matter what the government do.
Of course if government took less off us all in taxes, they could legitimately argue it's our responsibility make provisions for a "rainy day", live within our means, etc. but no they want the rush of being able to dole the money out to their own supporters so here we are (again).
Politics, eh?