High death rate 'may be starting to fall'
15/12/2020 | news | health | 1,899
Total deaths in the UK have been 20% above normal in recent weeks, but that figure has now dropped.
1
15/12/2020 13:02:11 2 5
bbc
Wow
2
15/12/2020 13:03:20 54 24
bbc
Wish they'd make their minds up figures up and down like a brides nightie.
71
15/12/2020 13:05:33 31 36
bbc
They are gaslighting us.
15/12/2020 16:56:57 0 2
bbc
That is easy quite an offensive post. Surprised the BBC let it through. Sad mind you have.
3
15/12/2020 13:03:34 18 24
bbc
Scientists don't like the plans for Christmas....will guess what, people are gonna mix at Christmas regardless....you can introduce all the 'rules' you want but short of putting the army on the streets (don't give Hancock any ideas)….we all need a good blow out.

Time to go back to misery and lockdown in the New Year.
9
15/12/2020 13:05:55 19 13
bbc
Or we could avoid lockdown and misery in the new year by adhering to the most basic of basic scientific advice.
13
15/12/2020 13:06:54 1 4
bbc
The army and the police would do as their told

But as you’ve probably noticed from the police they are not exactly being “overzealous” in policing these lockdowns

I live in London and haven’t seen any since March when they were quite visible initially

Guess they are busy dealing with actual crime and stuff
22
15/12/2020 13:04:47 5 10
bbc
Yes, I am gonna see my family. And I don't care if that upsets HYS grumps who are scared of their own shadows.

Me and my family have been VERY careful and made huge sacrifices this year. No grinch is gonna steal our Xmas.
4
15/12/2020 13:04:12 34 28
bbc
The figure has dropped because we had a lockdown preceded and followed by tiered restrictions across the country. The Christmas plan will simply reverse the trend. It's a terrible idea and should be ditched now in order to give families time to amend their plans.
10
15/12/2020 13:05:57 18 29
bbc
I've made my plans....I'm not changing them for you or anyone.

Let me know where to send my cheque when they fine me.
17
15/12/2020 13:07:13 8 14
bbc
Ah....the 'hide under your bed' brigade out in force.

Sorry but we're not playing.
24
DM
15/12/2020 13:08:10 11 5
bbc
Are people so stupid that they STILL need to be told what to do (hands / face / space), or are you suggesting that people think the Christmas plans mean the virus is taking a few days off? Actually people are stupid - those who think the rules don't apply to them and that they can do what they like - they are the ones that have spread the virus. It is not rocket science.
54
15/12/2020 13:12:35 5 7
bbc
Or you could seek alternative information from other sources within the scientific community instead of believing everything the media spouts...……...you may be surprised!
58
15/12/2020 13:12:57 6 1
bbc
The Christmas relaxation will increase the spread and deaths, but the reality is that people will ignore restrictions over Xmas anyway. The relaxation may encourage people to stick to some sort of social limitation, and it will reduce the burden on police.
103
15/12/2020 13:17:17 2 9
bbc
The Christmas plans of families are no business of the government. They have no control over what people do in their own homes, and that is how it should be.
Their job is to advise us, as they face, then back off.
This is not Chins or North Korea.........yet.
372
15/12/2020 13:41:21 0 2
bbc
Even with the lockdown, there is no reason for it to fall exponentially like this when it in circulation.
5
15/12/2020 13:04:19 14 10
bbc
...or it may not be falling
27
15/12/2020 13:08:55 10 4
bbc
It just fell by 20% in a week.
Hidden in the article.
6
15/12/2020 13:04:54 67 42
bbc
Still no reason not to continue adhering to social distancing, face cover wearing, and basic hygiene.

The virus is still being spread. We don't know the full extent of the long term effects on those who receive a bad dose of the virus.

But then, people in the UK seem to be too thick to understand the consequences of their actions, so expect deaths to start to rise again.
207
15/12/2020 13:26:47 15 9
bbc
Well said
324
15/12/2020 13:37:46 0 6
bbc
People DO understand the consequences, just as much as you do, but they dont all reach the same conclusion as you. That is just as likely to mean you are thick, not them!
15/12/2020 15:43:21 2 0
bbc
Spot on!
7
15/12/2020 13:05:15 24 21
bbc
Clearly the restrictions do have a significant impact, and with the vaccination program underway now is not the time to lift restrictions.
34
15/12/2020 13:09:48 6 3
bbc
If only it was just Covid related deaths that restrictions had a significant impact on.
8
15/12/2020 13:05:32 126 48
bbc
Only the Beeb could possibly caveat good news so heavily.
The question is, why?
68
15/12/2020 13:13:55 60 16
bbc
Statisticians caveat their data if the publicly are unlikely to understand or will misinterpret them. There doesn't always have to be some sinister reason behind it...
Removed
151
15/12/2020 13:21:17 7 12
bbc
I see the russian bots have arrived
298
15/12/2020 13:35:43 8 6
bbc
Thats not the question, the question is where your marker is? You dislike the BBC for whatever reason, but where do you believe does a better job of reporting the news, who do you believe are more balanced?
992
15/12/2020 14:59:37 2 1
bbc
Could it be that they say 'may' because, for future events, there is always an element of uncertainty? Are you saying that they should say 'it will rise' or 'it will not rise'?
Grow up and think,now and again.
15/12/2020 15:55:19 1 2
bbc
You think you know why!
It's your imaginary remainder conspiracy theory, surely, isn't it Tory boy?
15/12/2020 16:02:31 1 0
bbc
Because the infection rate is now rising again (check the Zoe app) - therefore in a month it will start to rise again - add in the proposed Christmas relaxation of rules, plus the general attitudes seeming prevalent now (let's blame the old and sick because it is interfering with my right to go to the pub) and high rates are inevitable. Also this Trumpian knocking the media is just boring now.
3
15/12/2020 13:03:34 18 24
bbc
Scientists don't like the plans for Christmas....will guess what, people are gonna mix at Christmas regardless....you can introduce all the 'rules' you want but short of putting the army on the streets (don't give Hancock any ideas)….we all need a good blow out.

Time to go back to misery and lockdown in the New Year.
9
15/12/2020 13:05:55 19 13
bbc
Or we could avoid lockdown and misery in the new year by adhering to the most basic of basic scientific advice.
36
15/12/2020 13:09:51 6 10
bbc
Don't be daft....control is an illusion....and we will be back in lockdown in the New Year regardless of infections, death rates, r numbers.....because the government want us in lockdown.
4
15/12/2020 13:04:12 34 28
bbc
The figure has dropped because we had a lockdown preceded and followed by tiered restrictions across the country. The Christmas plan will simply reverse the trend. It's a terrible idea and should be ditched now in order to give families time to amend their plans.
10
15/12/2020 13:05:57 18 29
bbc
I've made my plans....I'm not changing them for you or anyone.

Let me know where to send my cheque when they fine me.
47
15/12/2020 13:11:42 18 3
bbc
It's all about you, isn't it?
Removed
"Boohoohoo stop restricting my freedom, I want to be a selfish moron. I dont care if it makes me look pathetic and a disgrace to the British people. Boohoohoo" snowflake. Removed
15/12/2020 18:04:01 0 0
bbc
Don't worry about being fined; worry about being implicated in the death of another.
11
15/12/2020 13:06:05 36 16
bbc
This is us starting to see the effects of the lockdown.

Whilst the government is allowing mixing over Xmas, people should be responsible and keep mixing to a minimum. Otherwise, we'll see the Xmas spike 6 weeks after too.
884
15/12/2020 14:42:04 5 5
bbc
No it isn't infections were falling before lock-down ,HMG is always 2 weeks late, that way they can lock-down as rates are falling then claim lock-down worked, as they know most people won't bother checking the figures
Can our media take Xmas off please. Thanks Removed
48
15/12/2020 13:11:51 1 1
bbc
Try asking Santa for that- good luck!
3
15/12/2020 13:03:34 18 24
bbc
Scientists don't like the plans for Christmas....will guess what, people are gonna mix at Christmas regardless....you can introduce all the 'rules' you want but short of putting the army on the streets (don't give Hancock any ideas)….we all need a good blow out.

Time to go back to misery and lockdown in the New Year.
13
15/12/2020 13:06:54 1 4
bbc
The army and the police would do as their told

But as you’ve probably noticed from the police they are not exactly being “overzealous” in policing these lockdowns

I live in London and haven’t seen any since March when they were quite visible initially

Guess they are busy dealing with actual crime and stuff
14
15/12/2020 13:06:59 27 12
bbc
The headline says the death rate is falling, but there's nothing in this article about the death rate, just the number of deaths. It would be really interesting to know about the change to the death rate over time.
32
15/12/2020 13:09:40 15 6
bbc
It does talk about death rate, it takes about the percentage change in deaths in different weeks. Death per unit time is death rate.
117
Bob
15/12/2020 13:18:24 0 1
bbc
From the article:

"In the week ending 4 December there were 13,956 deaths - 15% above the five-year average.

But that is down on the previous week when deaths were 20% higher."
139
15/12/2020 13:20:39 2 1
bbc
Read the first paragraph. The bit where drath rates are mentioned.
878
15/12/2020 14:40:47 0 0
bbc
a month ago when I looked at annual rate data, the first 8 years of the 21st Century had higher death rates than 2020.
15
15/12/2020 13:07:10 56 10
bbc
This is always being benchmarked against "average". Would be useful to also have this benchmarked against the variance of max/min for the time of year.
124
15/12/2020 13:19:07 43 20
bbc
Its benchmarked against the average for the time of year, not for the year as a whole. Providing the min/max would do nothing other than confuse those who dont understand data, mislead the selfish into ignoring advice and killing more people, and give ammunition to those who lack the cognitive abilities to not believe in conspiracy theories to spread more conspiracy theories.
VoR
15/12/2020 15:45:09 1 0
bbc
The year on year variance would be affected by things like severity of weather, and annual flu virus impact. Given there's less flu this year (thanks to southern hemisphere lockdown in their winter), and fairly moderate weather, the 5 year average probably isn't a bad reference point.
15/12/2020 15:56:27 0 0
bbc
Quite. 2019 was a substantially low year in terms of deaths, if you take that year out the deaths this year aren't actually very exceptional.
15/12/2020 23:59:46 0 0
bbc
Or 10 year average
16
15/12/2020 13:07:10 12 8
bbc
Very irresponsible journalism, 'may'? The NHS are going to be fuming, even more excuses for people to ignore the rules, I give up??
37
15/12/2020 13:09:53 5 3
bbc
You not noticed they always say ‘may’?
43
15/12/2020 13:11:20 0 2
bbc
Yep. This morning we’ve had BBC headlines that suggest opposite conclusions. One minute, the end of the world. Next: relax, it’s all ok! Click bait, I’m afraid. People don’t read the article, they pick the headline they like and go with that in their daily lives.
510
15/12/2020 13:55:46 0 0
bbc
Perhaps because there is always uncertainty about the future?
868
15/12/2020 14:39:30 0 0
bbc
The NHS are always fuming, must be because so many aren't doing very much at present, after all there are 1.3 Million of them.
4
15/12/2020 13:04:12 34 28
bbc
The figure has dropped because we had a lockdown preceded and followed by tiered restrictions across the country. The Christmas plan will simply reverse the trend. It's a terrible idea and should be ditched now in order to give families time to amend their plans.
17
15/12/2020 13:07:13 8 14
bbc
Ah....the 'hide under your bed' brigade out in force.

Sorry but we're not playing.
143
15/12/2020 13:20:49 2 4
bbc
quit right!!! bring on the festivities
164
15/12/2020 13:22:23 9 3
bbc
Ah, the stupid selfish brigade out in force.
15/12/2020 18:04:36 0 0
bbc
Playing is for kids. Enough said.
18
15/12/2020 13:07:22 147 62
bbc
The selfish muppets will just do as they want at Christmas irrespective of any rules. We live in a me me society.
Jog on you miserable oxygen thief. Removed
231
15/12/2020 13:28:53 15 12
bbc
Spot on Woodie , selfish AND ignorant.
257
Pip
15/12/2020 13:31:30 0 3
bbc
As your comments suggest, we do, don't we.............?
299
15/12/2020 13:35:47 17 4
bbc
No, we live in a FREE society. At the moment.
448
Rob
15/12/2020 13:49:12 23 21
bbc
The only selfish muppets are those who think they have a right to dictate what another person can and can't do in their own homes with their own families. Get off your high horse and consider exactly who is being selfish here?
628
Alf
15/12/2020 14:08:42 17 7
bbc
It's selfish to think that any person has a right to say who another person can spend their time with.
807
15/12/2020 14:30:02 6 6
bbc
"We live in a me economy".......Thatcher would be so proud
862
15/12/2020 14:38:14 4 5
bbc
says someone who wants everyone else to go into house arrest when they manage it for themselves because they were so frightened.
898
15/12/2020 14:45:04 1 0
bbc
So, So true
15/12/2020 15:08:59 3 0
bbc
Its what you get in a liberal society - maybe you would prefer to live in china?
15/12/2020 15:10:09 3 1
bbc
There are some people like this but the idea that there are 50 million odd in the country as portrayed by some people and the media is ridiculous. Where I live (which is considered an area that has had cases) by and large people have followed the rules, wore masks, avoided gatherings - there is nowhere for them to go for starters. So please just stop lazily referring to almost everyone as a muppet
15/12/2020 15:34:11 1 0
bbc
Correct
15/12/2020 15:49:44 4 2
bbc
More like we live in a society where many are terrified of their own shadow.
15/12/2020 15:57:21 0 1
bbc
That is Brexit Britain.
And now we going to find we ain't that special!
In fact we are not even adequate!
PJ
15/12/2020 16:59:51 1 1
bbc
We really do. The only reason anyone cares is because covid is HERE. How many virtue signallers give a monkey's about TB, HIV, malaria, cholera, ebola? Not many I guess because it only affects 'other people'. Same selfishness, calm down with the name calling at look at yourself.
19
15/12/2020 13:07:29 55 36
bbc
If there is one thing I've learned in 2020, it is that a large segment of British people are spoiled rotten and have no manners.

So many people take our public services for granted. But I never thought I'd see the day when individuals threaten to kill off-duty medics.

We need a blacklist. Anyone who disregards COVID rules or threatens key workers should be barred from NHS treatment.
347
15/12/2020 13:39:51 21 6
bbc
And smokers, and the people injured in sport, and those that holiday in dangerous places like Belgium, and anybody that disagrees with me!
365
15/12/2020 13:30:23 0 5
bbc
Well, Mr Authoritarian :

Selfish Tory policies create selfish people.

Proud, are you ?
675
Rob
15/12/2020 14:14:24 0 1
bbc
Says "Lockdown4ever"...
856
15/12/2020 14:36:58 1 0
bbc
If you haven't got covid, you already appear to be.
15/12/2020 15:28:23 2 1
bbc
" should be barred from NHS treatment."
There is no NHS treatment outside of the virus, haven't you noticed, with one family member dead through not getting any treatment till to late and another failing to even get to see a consultant for kidney cancer diagnosed in July I don't think you know what you are talking about.
15/12/2020 15:50:25 0 0
bbc
Totally, totally agree.
15/12/2020 18:39:45 0 0
bbc
Zero tolerance usually comes back and bites us all.
20
15/12/2020 13:07:39 11 9
bbc
Just wait until January - a month that always has a high death rate anyway - when COVID-19 peaks following everyone mixing at Christmas.
845
15/12/2020 14:36:24 0 1
bbc
Given it was here last Christmas, and until HMG started emptying hospitals into care homes it hadn't 'taken off' are you sure?
21
15/12/2020 13:03:00 2 5
bbc
Well done British public. Well done NHS.
3
15/12/2020 13:03:34 18 24
bbc
Scientists don't like the plans for Christmas....will guess what, people are gonna mix at Christmas regardless....you can introduce all the 'rules' you want but short of putting the army on the streets (don't give Hancock any ideas)….we all need a good blow out.

Time to go back to misery and lockdown in the New Year.
22
15/12/2020 13:04:47 5 10
bbc
Yes, I am gonna see my family. And I don't care if that upsets HYS grumps who are scared of their own shadows.

Me and my family have been VERY careful and made huge sacrifices this year. No grinch is gonna steal our Xmas.
78
15/12/2020 13:15:16 5 3
bbc
You've made huge sacrifices, and you want to squander those sacrifices now, on the eve of the nation being vaccinated? Why did you bother with sacrifices if you are going to give it all up to eat Brussels Sprouts together?
215
15/12/2020 13:27:27 1 3
bbc
So your are willing to make your huge sacrifices worth naught when you kill your beloved ones? Your deserve to suffer with the virus, and i sincerely hope you do.
23
15/12/2020 13:07:54 4 4
bbc
False hope.
4
15/12/2020 13:04:12 34 28
bbc
The figure has dropped because we had a lockdown preceded and followed by tiered restrictions across the country. The Christmas plan will simply reverse the trend. It's a terrible idea and should be ditched now in order to give families time to amend their plans.
24
DM
15/12/2020 13:08:10 11 5
bbc
Are people so stupid that they STILL need to be told what to do (hands / face / space), or are you suggesting that people think the Christmas plans mean the virus is taking a few days off? Actually people are stupid - those who think the rules don't apply to them and that they can do what they like - they are the ones that have spread the virus. It is not rocket science.
45
15/12/2020 13:11:38 2 7
bbc
Drop the hands face space thing and you'll get more people listening to you, sound bites only make people hate what you're saying no matter how good the advice. Condescension is no prevention...dammit!
25
15/12/2020 13:08:14 737 236
bbc
The death count is flawed I'm afraid... I can test positive for Covid on Day 1, show no symptoms for 26 days and on Day 28 have a heart attack. Result? Covid death.

The harsh reality is that a lot of people in the 64,402 count were quite ill to begin with.

What is really required is a count of deaths OF covid, not WITH covid.
38
15/12/2020 13:09:56 301 97
bbc
I couldn't agree more.
79
15/12/2020 13:15:31 25 86
bbc
So you are approving of eugenics?
80
15/12/2020 13:15:32 102 49
bbc
COVID causes damage to organs particularly heart and lungs. If COVID causes scarring on the heart that then leads to you having a heart attack then yes, you had a covid related death (those are the terms under which they report them).
101
dan
15/12/2020 13:17:10 116 29
bbc
Except it isn't. Throughout this ALL the experts have said excess deaths is the most reliable figure, and ours is actually HIGHER THAN the 64,000 deaths associated with Covid.
132
15/12/2020 13:19:45 76 16
bbc
Even if death rates are falling we must not clog up the NHS will the ill. So hands, masks and distancing is STILL the most important thing to do.
145
15/12/2020 13:21:01 35 13
bbc
Sounds clever but of course it's total nonsense based on s**-all information.
146
xlr
15/12/2020 13:21:07 74 15
bbc
So there are 20% more heart attacks lately?

It's your logic that's flawed.
153
15/12/2020 13:21:26 65 14
bbc
And I'm sure there are plenty that die after the 28 days with Covid not recorded
178
15/12/2020 13:23:53 14 7
bbc
Whole thing is flawed.
183
15/12/2020 13:24:08 18 16
bbc
So if an already poorly person is hit by a bus would you suggest we don't report it as bus related?
186
15/12/2020 13:25:02 24 11
bbc
Or have Covid, die from it on day 29 and NOT be counted! That's why the '28 days' number above (you did look at the article and understand it, didn't you?) is the lowest of the three. Excess deaths are the most meaningful over the period and are at 80,000 now!
200
15/12/2020 13:26:15 10 18
bbc
The common sense of a True Believer of the Boris cult
214
15/12/2020 13:27:23 19 18
bbc
That's what they won't tell us
Doctor in Edinburgh royal infirmary told my wife they are no busier than normal
223
15/12/2020 13:27:50 18 8
bbc
Firstly, just look at EXCESS deaths, which the article conveniently displays for you.

Secondly, how exactly do you draw a distinction between deaths "with" and deaths "from"? The only question which makes sense to ask when a person who has been infected with Covid dies, is: "Would this person have had a significantly longer life expectancy had they NOT been infected with Covid".
238
15/12/2020 13:29:26 20 3
bbc
You did notice that this story was about the % higher death rate than normal? That's the amount that are dying more than the average over the last 5 years, whether that be from Covid or not.

Covid may be incorrectly used in cause of death as you say but that does not detract from the fact more folk are dying than usual.
239
15/12/2020 13:29:26 7 6
bbc
In addition, the earlier hysteria estimating rates over 4.00% have now been removed to be replaced by a range of 0.00% to 0.31% for <70s, median 0.05% (as per recent WHO bulletins). Interestingly, some medics were criticized in April when referring to the lower estimates, I am glad they had the courage to look at the data and make their own assessments, which have now been shown to be correct.
259
15/12/2020 13:31:44 3 1
bbc
By which you mean excess deaths?
272
15/12/2020 13:33:10 11 3
bbc
Except that it's near impossible to count "deaths OF covid". Infection can seriously damage internal organs - so if someone dies e.g. of heart failure within the 28 days, how do you know if it was as a result of covid or not?
Conversely, just relying on excess deaths overlooks that many will have resulted from missed clinical interventions.

The simple answer is that there is no simple answer.
278
15/12/2020 13:33:30 7 5
bbc
Completely agree that we need to know deaths from Covid rather than with Covid.

Problem is it is impossible to know how much or little Covid has played in a lot of deaths, with obvious exceptions such as car accidents.

Every media organisation has also been guilty of saying Covid deaths instead of deaths with Covid, not just the BBC. It makes for better headlines you see.
293
15/12/2020 13:35:11 11 3
bbc
So if someone with a heart condition dies because Covid has exacerbated that condition, have they died with or from Covid? The with/from distinction simply does not make sense in many (perhaps even the majority) of cases.
312
15/12/2020 13:36:31 7 4
bbc
You could also test positive for COVID, die of complications 29 days later - result.. not in COVID figures - swings and roundabouts
321
15/12/2020 13:37:18 10 8
bbc
The ONS stars themselves suggest fewer than 5000 of the total deaths were people with no underlying health problems. Whilst that’s obvious tragic, it does not justify the measures that have been put it place.
337
15/12/2020 13:39:18 3 1
bbc
Conversely, however, you could also be intensive care for 28 days, die on day 29 and your death will not be counted in the stats. The excess death rate is higher than the 5 year average and majority of deaths occurred in the first wave - so too early to be the impact of non-treatment.
358
15/12/2020 13:40:53 5 5
bbc
@Stuart
"I can test positive for Covid on Day 1, show no symptoms for 26 days and on Day 28 have a heart attack. Result? Covid death. "

Because most people have heart attacks on a monthly basis right?
Sure there's a margin of error, but don't be stupid.
373
15/12/2020 13:41:28 4 2
bbc
The death count is flawed I’m afraid. I could test positive for Covid on day 1, be critically ill for 28 days, and die on day 29 of direct Covid-19 related causes, ARDS, or kidney failure. But I’d not be a Covid-19 death.
383
15/12/2020 13:42:22 4 1
bbc
Yes it is flawed , the only certainty is that there is nearly 80k excess deaths, covid will be responsible for.some, what we will never no is how much higher would the excess deaths be without the restrictions.
387
15/12/2020 13:42:38 3 2
bbc
Exactly Stuart. And how many people have died WITH/OF flu last winter and so far this winter??????????

I suspect we all know the answer to that one!
400
15/12/2020 13:44:06 5 1
bbc
The best measure is the number of excess deaths, this stands at 80k. They might not all of died of Covid, but most will of died from it and other issues arising from the pandemic such as worse treatment of other illnesses such as Cancer
440
15/12/2020 13:48:22 2 3
bbc
And the 80000 excess deaths so far this year, how do you account for them?
442
15/12/2020 13:48:34 2 2
bbc
"The death count is flawed I'm afraid... I can test positive for Covid on Day 1, show no symptoms for 26 days and on Day 28 have a heart attack. Result? Covid death."

What about the many people who get covid and die without getting a test? That would more than offset your example.
443
15/12/2020 13:48:48 5 4
bbc
Hardly the zombie apocalypse especially as most had time to congregate in the hospital car parks and give themselves a right old round of applause. Of course the figures are fiddled and the WHO told them to do it. For some reason.
463
15/12/2020 13:50:27 0 0
bbc
and how do you propose that is achieved? If it was easy don't you think that would have been done already?
465
15/12/2020 13:50:43 3 0
bbc
Don’t forget those who died due to lockdown, or the tens of thousands of excess deaths in care homes which coincides with sending vulnerable group people with Covid from hospitals and into those care homes.
471
15/12/2020 13:51:28 7 1
bbc
That would require post mortems to be carried out and there is no appetite to do that, goodness the NHS can't even be bothered to perform their normal cancer/heart screening, never mind PM's
481
15/12/2020 13:52:16 2 1
bbc
The point you make is valid but the fact is that ONS excess deaths figures don't lie. They are higher than the Covid specific measure. So unless there is some other silent epidemic going unrecorded and unreported then its reasonably certain Covid has indeed killed this many people. To say otherwise is nothing more than conspiracy theory.
26
15/12/2020 13:08:51 149 32
bbc
Hopefully the death rate will continue to fall.

Look after your loved ones this Christmas.
Stick to the guidelines.

If you do hopefully you'll be able to spend many more Christmas's with them.
900
15/12/2020 14:45:20 64 56
bbc
Every death that could have been avoided is a tragedy for families, friends and loved ones. Seems many on here are in complete denial of the realities of the situation confronting us. Covid-19 is a killer and not one single person of any age can be certain that they will escape unscathed if infected.
M12
15/12/2020 15:18:17 17 3
bbc
If you fact checked what the MSM feed you, you would realise that if you expand their graph out, the 'excess deaths' in the so called 'second wave' is so horrendous, we haven't seen so many since... 2018-19!! and before that, yep 0217-18!!

you are being manipulated to live in fear. wake up!
15/12/2020 15:46:17 4 0
bbc
How anyone can downvote this is beyond belief
15/12/2020 17:03:01 0 0
bbc
I'm fed up with this oversentimental, overused, 'your loved ones'. What ever happened to good old-fashioned friends and family?
5
15/12/2020 13:04:19 14 10
bbc
...or it may not be falling
27
15/12/2020 13:08:55 10 4
bbc
It just fell by 20% in a week.
Hidden in the article.
28
15/12/2020 13:08:56 179 88
bbc
This graph clearly shows that the pandemic basically ended in June. I would imagine that hospitals not treating people for other illnesses for a large part of the year hasn’t helped excess deaths, and clearly ‘deaths within 28 days of a positive test’ does not tell us how many people have actually died due to C-19. They need to start using proper stats, not stats designed to project fear.
74
15/12/2020 13:14:41 101 112
bbc
You are bad at reading and analysing data, so I would recommend not making public statements about data that make you look foolish.
83
15/12/2020 13:15:50 27 10
bbc
I guess you didn't do statistics or maths at school.

What an absurd remark and doesn't reflect the data shown in the charts.
115
4wd
15/12/2020 13:18:11 16 28
bbc
It's over-reliance on the absurdly inaccurate PCR test driving policy.
The death rate as we go into winter is similar to a number of recent years.
Without the daily media hoo-ha most of us would not be aware of anything unusual.
This is not a deadly pandemic, it barely qualified in the original wave back in April.
147
JT
15/12/2020 13:21:09 21 8
bbc
That simply isn't the case. The large red area to the right above the dotted line shows excess deaths due to Covid. It is no coincidence this follows a surge in confirmed cases and a large increase in the number of people being hospitalised with Covid. Whilst we don't know the exact number of people dying because of Covid, we do know that it is many thousands, even post June.
15/12/2020 15:07:14 3 0
bbc
That is clearly wrong. Have a good hard proper look at the USA and Brazil. This shows what can happen if you treat Covid-19 like a flu’ virus.
15/12/2020 15:09:50 4 0
bbc
Do you specialise in fake news by any chance
15/12/2020 15:50:05 1 0
bbc
No it didn't. You can't read or perceive the world around you. Try to keep up. Ignorance like this could kill you.
15/12/2020 15:54:02 2 1
bbc
Oh, I see Doctor! Is that why my local ICU unit is at capacity with covid cases for the second time so far this year then?
29
15/12/2020 13:09:09 357 103
bbc
What we’re actually doing here, by enlarge, is counting old people dying.
Average age of Covid death is 82.4.
360 otherwise healthy under 60's have been lost to Covid.
1600 people die every day in the UK, we just don’t normally shine a spotlight on it.
61
15/12/2020 13:13:29 166 322
bbc
What we are actually seeing here is the number of deaths from a virus that could have have been avoided with competent leadership. You are conveniently forgetting about the long term effects this is going to have on people of all ages. But that wouldnt fit into your agenda, I suppose.
99
15/12/2020 13:14:55 32 41
bbc
Yes, but COVID doesn't just kill. It leaves people in a seriously debilitated state. The effects of 'long COVID' are not yet fully understood.
205
15/12/2020 13:26:31 25 5
bbc
"...by enlarge..."! Ha, ha, ha!
234
15/12/2020 13:29:03 26 28
bbc
By enlarge? By and large older people are dying before they should, usually because they've been infected with Covid19 by younger people.
303
15/12/2020 13:23:33 8 7
bbc
I would like to know where you get a number of 360 under 60s that have died of COVID-19. The actual number is 4340 up until 4h December.
378
15/12/2020 13:41:44 6 10
bbc
But if the death rate is significantly higher than we usually see then it’s right to shine a spotlight on that, surely?

Also the average 82.4 year old probably has another 7-8 years left. These aren’t people who are on their last legs necessarily.
478
15/12/2020 13:52:08 1 5
bbc
I think what you mean to say is 'I don't want a lockdown so I'll make up some nonsense to explain it away'. Bit like Trumpy-Wumpy and his non-election.
505
15/12/2020 13:46:22 0 0
bbc
Excess deaths
545
15/12/2020 13:58:57 2 0
bbc
What we are also not counting is those in their 50s, 60s, 70s who are going into retirement with long lasting impacts from battling this virus, for many it's a really rough ride.
875
15/12/2020 14:40:14 2 2
bbc
Insensitive claptrap. Most people over 80 are fit and healthy and would regard themselves as anything but being "old". What you have said is insulting to well over 3million people in the UK.
30
15/12/2020 13:09:10 8 10
bbc
I know it takes years of dedication and ability to be a Professor in virology who can engineer the DNA of a virus to create a working vaccine which could save millions of lives, but I've just watched this really compelling youtube video on how vaccines are bad so I really don't know what to think now.
160
15/12/2020 13:22:14 1 4
bbc
There is a lot of misinformation on the internet - some folk just like the fame. However, think about this - would you rather believe some bloke who hasn't any proven scientific background or someone who has studied the subject at university and spent decades working in the field?

And as for conspiracy theories about the Gov. "controlling you" etc. ask yourself why would they want to do that?
820
15/12/2020 14:32:35 0 0
bbc
what arguments did they put forward and have you followed them up? Have you checked the numbers they may claim, or are you just winding people up on here trying to suggest anyone not in the Covid Cult is a anti-vaxxer?
31
15/12/2020 13:09:37 13 13
bbc
Only to rise again in January due to stupidity at Christmas
14
15/12/2020 13:06:59 27 12
bbc
The headline says the death rate is falling, but there's nothing in this article about the death rate, just the number of deaths. It would be really interesting to know about the change to the death rate over time.
32
15/12/2020 13:09:40 15 6
bbc
It does talk about death rate, it takes about the percentage change in deaths in different weeks. Death per unit time is death rate.
33
15/12/2020 13:09:42 12 18
bbc
The other countries in Europe which had an October/November resurgence now have far fewer cases than the UK.
We seem to be almost uniquely lacking in common sense.
46
15/12/2020 13:11:39 16 3
bbc
What about Italy? Plus Germany recored their highest death rate last week?
65
15/12/2020 13:13:42 3 1
bbc
Then why are they now imposing draconian Lockdowns over the whole Xmas New Year period across much of the EU.

try getting your facts right.
77
4wd
15/12/2020 13:15:14 0 1
bbc
It's really only London and the SE which is rising, further north positive tests are still generally falling or stable.
93
15/12/2020 13:17:01 1 1
bbc
Are you reading last month's news.
134
15/12/2020 13:19:47 2 1
bbc
That’s because the cases number isn’t real
788
15/12/2020 14:28:14 1 0
bbc
Maybe you should look in the mirror or read more widely, our mortality for Wk49 is described as Low excess, Netherlands, Belgium & Austria are the same, Portugal, are higher - moderate excess, Italy is much higher - 'high excess' Scandinavia no excess, has been like that since wk29 except for Finland in Wk37
7
15/12/2020 13:05:15 24 21
bbc
Clearly the restrictions do have a significant impact, and with the vaccination program underway now is not the time to lift restrictions.
34
15/12/2020 13:09:48 6 3
bbc
If only it was just Covid related deaths that restrictions had a significant impact on.
35
bbc
This comment would be removed, so I thought I’d save you the trouble!!! Removed
9
15/12/2020 13:05:55 19 13
bbc
Or we could avoid lockdown and misery in the new year by adhering to the most basic of basic scientific advice.
36
15/12/2020 13:09:51 6 10
bbc
Don't be daft....control is an illusion....and we will be back in lockdown in the New Year regardless of infections, death rates, r numbers.....because the government want us in lockdown.
116
15/12/2020 13:18:12 2 4
bbc
Breakout the tin foil.
224
15/12/2020 13:27:55 2 3
bbc
Why do they want us in lockdown? To what end?
663
15/12/2020 14:12:52 1 0
bbc
I'm also curious why the government would want us in lockdown? Who is benefitting from it? I'm open to the idea that those in power manipulate the masses to their own ends, but with lockdown conspiracy and flat earthers, I just don't understand the potential motive. Oh and chemtrails, "the elites are poisoning the air"... but don't they breathe the same air?.... ".........".
16
15/12/2020 13:07:10 12 8
bbc
Very irresponsible journalism, 'may'? The NHS are going to be fuming, even more excuses for people to ignore the rules, I give up??
37
15/12/2020 13:09:53 5 3
bbc
You not noticed they always say ‘may’?
25
15/12/2020 13:08:14 737 236
bbc
The death count is flawed I'm afraid... I can test positive for Covid on Day 1, show no symptoms for 26 days and on Day 28 have a heart attack. Result? Covid death.

The harsh reality is that a lot of people in the 64,402 count were quite ill to begin with.

What is really required is a count of deaths OF covid, not WITH covid.
38
15/12/2020 13:09:56 301 97
bbc
I couldn't agree more.
39
15/12/2020 13:09:57 8 7
bbc
Oh don't worry, it will go back up again over Christmas.
40
15/12/2020 13:10:13 7 15
bbc
Good old scaremongering disinformation service headline UK will blunder into Xmas what an absolute load of tosh people are not stupid they will take care of themselves as best they can and no doubt quite responsibly, but methinks the BBC are, the BBC is finished when Brexit is done they will sort you out and sorting out is what is needed.
50
15/12/2020 13:12:08 10 5
bbc
try that again in English?
75
15/12/2020 13:14:54 2 3
bbc
So people are not stupid? People will take care of themselves? Quite responsibly? So how did those 80000 excess deaths occur if people were being so responsible in looking after themselves? You're rant mentioned BBC and Brexit, just wainting to hear that you wear a tinfoil hat as well
41
15/12/2020 13:10:23 58 30
bbc
The government are allowing some mixing at Christmas, but there are serious and valid concerns.
Simple solution.....don’t mix with others outside of your household, celebrate Christmas in your own home and reduce the risk of spreading or catching the virus.
It’s one Christmas, not the end of the world.
67
4wd
15/12/2020 13:13:51 27 15
bbc
Since schools and many workplaces will be closed for a number of days anyway the risk is being overhyped IMO
70
15/12/2020 13:14:19 4 1
bbc
Plus, most people aren't Christian anyway so it shouldn't be treated any differently to any other religious festival of 2020. In fact, for true Christians, Easter is more important.
86
15/12/2020 13:15:53 2 8
bbc
Who died and made you King?
552
15/12/2020 13:59:20 4 1
bbc
Totally agree See relatives/friends Next year. Could never understand why people Had to go abroad for a holiday this year - really couldn't give it a miss for one year? Know it all
737
15/12/2020 14:22:31 1 1
bbc
and keep your cats quarantined?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-54918267

Then again, keep your chickens in, Bird Flu is around again, and we remember that 2005 lock-down don't we? That saved us, otherwise it was going to kill 150M. So far covid has made it to 1.5 M globally after 12 months.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/sep/30/birdflu.jamessturcke
42
15/12/2020 13:10:37 13 18
bbc
Watch that death rate sky rocket again from mid January thanks to the selfish idiots not maintaining lockdown over Christmas. The results of these people are costing lives.

Jesus Christ would say stay in and protect the vulnerable.
62
15/12/2020 13:13:37 1 1
bbc
Do you blame the shepherds or the sheep?
97
15/12/2020 13:13:25 1 1
bbc
Who gives a damn about Jesus ?

And I WILL see my family. You can't stop me.
98
15/12/2020 13:14:54 0 1
bbc
Have you asked him?
677
15/12/2020 14:14:50 0 0
bbc
Matthew 8:21-22 is probably what he would say if he had seen the data
16
15/12/2020 13:07:10 12 8
bbc
Very irresponsible journalism, 'may'? The NHS are going to be fuming, even more excuses for people to ignore the rules, I give up??
43
15/12/2020 13:11:20 0 2
bbc
Yep. This morning we’ve had BBC headlines that suggest opposite conclusions. One minute, the end of the world. Next: relax, it’s all ok! Click bait, I’m afraid. People don’t read the article, they pick the headline they like and go with that in their daily lives.
44
15/12/2020 13:11:29 16 15
bbc
The BBC will always dilute any good news about the virus, after all they are simply a PR branch of the government, nothing more, worried about losing their funding so they have to toe the line. Rates of positive tests are falling rapidly.
150
15/12/2020 13:21:16 2 2
bbc
Why would they dilute any good news if they are in bed with the government?
24
DM
15/12/2020 13:08:10 11 5
bbc
Are people so stupid that they STILL need to be told what to do (hands / face / space), or are you suggesting that people think the Christmas plans mean the virus is taking a few days off? Actually people are stupid - those who think the rules don't apply to them and that they can do what they like - they are the ones that have spread the virus. It is not rocket science.
45
15/12/2020 13:11:38 2 7
bbc
Drop the hands face space thing and you'll get more people listening to you, sound bites only make people hate what you're saying no matter how good the advice. Condescension is no prevention...dammit!
33
15/12/2020 13:09:42 12 18
bbc
The other countries in Europe which had an October/November resurgence now have far fewer cases than the UK.
We seem to be almost uniquely lacking in common sense.
46
15/12/2020 13:11:39 16 3
bbc
What about Italy? Plus Germany recored their highest death rate last week?
110
15/12/2020 13:17:46 0 4
bbc
Italy last 7 day average 16120 (down from 35,000 on Nov 16) and dropping steadily.
UK 18815 and going up with a bullet.

+ Germany only had a gradual October/November resurgence. Their resurgence is now.
HTH
809
15/12/2020 14:30:30 0 0
bbc
Covid Cultists don't look further than the BBC "Scare of the Week", in line with SAGE's advice to HMG "If you want people to obey, terrify them" (I paraphrase SAGE, it is science, but psychological stuff, not viral )
10
15/12/2020 13:05:57 18 29
bbc
I've made my plans....I'm not changing them for you or anyone.

Let me know where to send my cheque when they fine me.
47
15/12/2020 13:11:42 18 3
bbc
It's all about you, isn't it?
Can our media take Xmas off please. Thanks Removed
48
15/12/2020 13:11:51 1 1
bbc
Try asking Santa for that- good luck!
49
15/12/2020 13:11:53 60 22
bbc
92% of statistics are made up on the spot.
87
15/12/2020 13:16:11 58 9
bbc
You're wrong. It's 93%
349
15/12/2020 13:39:52 5 1
bbc
Most amusing.
15/12/2020 16:27:20 1 0
bbc
The other 8% are a pack of lies.
40
15/12/2020 13:10:13 7 15
bbc
Good old scaremongering disinformation service headline UK will blunder into Xmas what an absolute load of tosh people are not stupid they will take care of themselves as best they can and no doubt quite responsibly, but methinks the BBC are, the BBC is finished when Brexit is done they will sort you out and sorting out is what is needed.
50
15/12/2020 13:12:08 10 5
bbc
try that again in English?
118
15/12/2020 13:18:35 1 1
bbc
Try singing it! Suddenly it makes sense!
51
15/12/2020 13:12:18 423 42
bbc
What about the other deaths not from Covid being ignored, like that father in his 20s lost to cancer, because he was repeatedly refused an MRI scan and resultant treatment as revealed yesterday; why did he and the young family left behind seemingly not matter?
91
15/12/2020 13:16:36 229 32
bbc
Because it's much easier to virtue signal a soundbite than it is to understand the nuances of your decisions and thus make difficult moral decisions.

I sympathise immensely with all those who have faced irrepairable damage due to the imposed lockdowns.
135
15/12/2020 13:19:50 16 6
bbc
Yes BSUB, 700+ extra deaths at home now, each week for 36 weeks (bar 1), we desperately need some balance.
141
15/12/2020 13:20:45 10 16
bbc
Ah yes because one case is indicative of all cases....

Deaths data is reported weekly, you can already see the number of deaths coming from other causes. The reason it isn't being reported is because maybe there is no story there. I mean the data is in the public domain, sure onl=e anti-vax or anti-covid group would be publicising these figures if your point was valid
154
15/12/2020 13:21:27 11 10
bbc
Those are in these stats. They are all excess deaths. Tragic incidents like his have unfortunately always been with us. Any increase would show up in the data presented in this article.
173
15/12/2020 13:23:26 27 27
bbc
Because the Government and the NHS believe deaths from Covid are more important than deaths from anything else, that's why.

They say that's not true, but the case of the father in his 20s that you highlight shows that's simply not reality.

Reality is they simply don't care about such people.
264
15/12/2020 13:32:20 8 5
bbc
Those deaths will show up in the excess death rates, which the article conveniently shows you.
296
15/12/2020 13:35:26 12 10
bbc
They represent a tiny percentage of excess deaths. Hence you are forced to pick one headline grabbing outlier to illustrate a point. No statistical significance. We are dealing in numbers not emotive claptrap.
369
15/12/2020 13:41:11 6 1
bbc
Because the government will be blamed for every covid death, deaths from anything else they will not get blamed for, unfortunately its more about politics than health.
504
15/12/2020 13:45:57 5 1
bbc
All the more reason to get on top of covid so other conditions can also be treated.
647
Sam
15/12/2020 14:10:51 4 2
bbc
These deaths can be attributed to covid too. Better suppression of covid19 would mean other treatments continuing more normally. There are only so many beds, and medical professionals. No preventative measures would make things worse not better. Best thing everyone can do is wash hands, wear a mask, social distance and isolate when required, to help for all health issue treatment.
674
15/12/2020 14:14:03 7 4
bbc
Completely agree. People in the prime of their lives being taken from us for missed treatment to protect seriously ill 80+ year olds. Its all wrong. Add to that 1m job losses, 1m households ruined.

Protect the vulnerable not ruin everybody else.
722
15/12/2020 14:20:20 1 1
bbc
very good point. Unfortunately all the people who are terrified of covid and doing the right thing to save lifes are very picky as to whose lives really matter
937
15/12/2020 14:50:53 3 3
bbc
In our warped new world only deaths from Covid matter anymore.
977
15/12/2020 14:57:33 2 1
bbc
Sadly neither the government or the NHS are not measuring themselves against none COVID deaths; that’s why their actions are actually costing other lives and those will keep mounting over the coming months and years.
995
15/12/2020 14:59:51 1 3
bbc
What aboydeaths FROMcovid not counted in the Brexi-tory massaged stats because they occur more than 28 days after infection?
Well???
15/12/2020 15:02:42 1 0
bbc
I think his GP seems to be getting off lightly ? ( if he visited him with his symptoms ), I had a large skin mole on my leg checked within 3 weeks back in the summer after seeing/talking with my GP.
15/12/2020 15:06:29 2 2
bbc
You're going to have to prove a CAUSAL LINK between treatment delay and death before you do 'whatabout' theory on that kind of specious argument.
BD
15/12/2020 15:24:04 0 0
bbc
Most of us know only what the media choose to tell us, and perhaps should not react hysterically.
While this father lost to cancer after being refused scans is heart-breaking, I do not think that his situation is purely down to current Covid restrictions in the NHS - perhaps similar stories, but with a lesser excuse on the NHS's part have been ongoing over previous years ...
VoR
15/12/2020 15:33:29 1 0
bbc
They are not ignored. They are factored into the excess death figure.
15/12/2020 15:47:14 2 0
bbc
Yes and that person was denied treatment because the hospitals were full of Covid patients. The hospitals were full because we didn't take Covid-19 seriously enough. We have probably the worst death rate and damage to our economy in Europe. Other countries have controlled and even eliminated the virus so it is not impossible.
15/12/2020 17:02:42 0 0
bbc
If he had been treated though, maybe a 50:50 chance he would have gone as a CV death instead.
15/12/2020 17:41:18 0 0
bbc
Tragic case but it will be reflected in the 'excess deaths figure' - the most meaningful number.
15/12/2020 22:29:59 0 0
bbc
Haven't you heard, the NHS is still open for you?
18
15/12/2020 13:07:22 147 62
bbc
The selfish muppets will just do as they want at Christmas irrespective of any rules. We live in a me me society.
Jog on you miserable oxygen thief. Removed
130
15/12/2020 13:19:38 2 7
bbc
Reported
53
15/12/2020 13:12:25 9 3
bbc
With men being twice as likely as women to die from Covid should men be first in line for the vaccine?
102
15/12/2020 13:17:13 5 2
bbc
How would you treat people who identify as other than their birth gender?
289
15/12/2020 13:34:56 3 1
bbc
Yeah. It’s odd isn’t it. Ive heard arguments that BAME people should be prioritised for vaccines, but nothing about men. IIRC the male/female Covid divide is far greater than any ethnic one.
902
15/12/2020 14:45:43 0 0
bbc
Wash your mouth out with soap, we'll have all the wimmin on here flaming you and filling up the BBC's storage capacity.
4
15/12/2020 13:04:12 34 28
bbc
The figure has dropped because we had a lockdown preceded and followed by tiered restrictions across the country. The Christmas plan will simply reverse the trend. It's a terrible idea and should be ditched now in order to give families time to amend their plans.
54
15/12/2020 13:12:35 5 7
bbc
Or you could seek alternative information from other sources within the scientific community instead of believing everything the media spouts...……...you may be surprised!
55
15/12/2020 13:12:38 3 11
bbc
Despite being on lockdown for 9 months, we have 80,000 excess. Please don’t push headlines like this that encourage Covidiots and anti vaxxers to rant about opening pubs now etc. With the mutation seen in London, it’s clear we are just entering the worse part
Look at the Graph above in this article you idiot, look at the numbers of deaths for the week mentioned 11,856 WERE NOT COVID, of the 3,100 classed as that, how many do you think were 'with' not 'of' it. March & April built up that total & that because we emptied the NHS into care homes, were it would kill. Covid Cultists need to be vaccinated against stupidity Removed
56
15/12/2020 13:12:52 7 7
bbc
rates up in London cancel xmas for everyone immediately ,what a joke, rates up in the north...all good...suddenly handcock and the head buffoon , and the mickey mouse scare mongering of the "second strain" want us all to stay home..Give us a brake ,its grim up north but were not all as thick as the southerners think...Merry xmas all
57
15/12/2020 13:12:56 221 34
bbc
I’ve decided to bring my New Years resolution forward to Christmas. No more reading or listening to the MEDIA.
279
15/12/2020 13:33:30 24 45
bbc
Why capital letters for Media? It covers many different areas, some that are controlled in content through law and some that are not. I would advise simply to simply stop looking at the press, they make they agencies that have morals, impose or no, look a lot worse than they are.
359
Rob
15/12/2020 13:40:56 10 4
bbc
Take off your mask whilst you're at it. They clearly don't work.
424
15/12/2020 13:46:40 3 1
bbc
That will not last
551
15/12/2020 13:59:20 5 4
bbc
Bye :) ??
595
me
15/12/2020 14:04:39 2 0
bbc
That’s an excellent idea though difficult to stick to when you’re stuck indoors
15/12/2020 15:59:14 2 1
bbc
I'm guessing you aren't a doctor, but the rest of your user name probably sums you up nicely :)
15/12/2020 19:50:03 0 0
bbc
Just online conspiracy theories from now on?
4
15/12/2020 13:04:12 34 28
bbc
The figure has dropped because we had a lockdown preceded and followed by tiered restrictions across the country. The Christmas plan will simply reverse the trend. It's a terrible idea and should be ditched now in order to give families time to amend their plans.
58
15/12/2020 13:12:57 6 1
bbc
The Christmas relaxation will increase the spread and deaths, but the reality is that people will ignore restrictions over Xmas anyway. The relaxation may encourage people to stick to some sort of social limitation, and it will reduce the burden on police.
I think people need to start considering that the 'authorities at large' are covertly promoting widespread infection. Convenient way of bursting the economical hot-air bubble and losing a multitude of pension funds through 'natural expiry' of the older generations. It occurs every 10-12 years. This is the mechanic of how 'they' (Anglo-American Oil Mafia) maintain power and control. Removed
644
15/12/2020 14:10:42 0 0
bbc
Rubbish, we have a peculiar flu like illness that a very large majority, particularly people under 45 don't know they have when they get it. It kills the very old and very sick whom we infected to save the NHS. The cure is vastly worse than the disease in terms of effect, and the incompetent leadership of the Western World believed China that lock-down was the answer & so destroyed economies
60
gjb
15/12/2020 13:13:14 278 61
bbc
Is it not about time we had a discussion about death and life expectancy in this country. Alot of people who have died were frail or had underlying health conditions and were probably going to die anyway. Sounds brutal but we need to be realistic. Quality of life far outweighs quantity of life, many of my elderly relatives are of this opinion and have living wills indicating their wishes.
90
15/12/2020 13:16:34 161 36
bbc
100 per cent right,pity the media refuse to give the same story
161
15/12/2020 13:22:16 22 18
bbc
That many of the victims of the virus had other conditions is a fact. But many of them will have been living a full and valued life before this came along.
Many victims also have diabetes, would you consider them expendable also?
220
15/12/2020 13:27:40 20 42
bbc
You make life seem so cheap. Pathetic individual.
327
15/12/2020 13:38:09 18 29
bbc
Ah, the old eugenics argument. Class act.
376
15/12/2020 13:41:38 5 1
bbc
The world assumes every failed millionaire wishes to live forever passing away in front of their computer screen or holding their most frequently used screwdriver, where a replacement is simply unpacked. Thanks but no thanks. Declining life expectancy and rises in suicides arent the best adverts for the pre packed replacements.
429
Rob
15/12/2020 13:47:11 45 12
bbc
My 87 year old Gran died on Friday. Her standard of living was severely reduced over the last 9 months as a result of the Covid restrictions inflicted on her without her consent. Positive life experiences such as my wedding, and her sons 60th birthday were taken away from her. No wonder she simply gave up in the end. I suspect most lockdownists don't have much of a quality of life to start with.
494
15/12/2020 13:54:20 20 25
bbc
I am totally fed up with people making comments regarding the elderly, frail and people with underlying health conditions. Your selfishness is beyond reason. Leave these people alone and get on with your narrow minded life.
498
15/12/2020 13:54:38 24 7
bbc
Yes.
I'm 82 and from the thought processes your comment reveals, my life quality is far better than yours. My brain is still active.
513
15/12/2020 13:51:50 17 6
bbc
I wonder if you'd feel the same way if someone wanted to have this discussion about whether your mum or dad should live?
521
15/12/2020 13:56:46 26 1
bbc
But as a 78 year-old who doesn't want to die to suit someone else's agenda, I liked the late Bob Hope's wisecrack at a Hollywood party when he was within a year of reaching his century. A much younger man asked his companion, whilst looking over at Hope, "Who the hell would want to live to be 100?" The comedian snapped back, "Someone who's 99, buddy!"
572
15/12/2020 14:02:00 3 1
bbc
OK, fine, but we also need to consider the impact of those with long term health implications from the damage this disease can do.
682
15/12/2020 14:15:03 3 0
bbc
it's natures way.
762
15/12/2020 14:25:29 3 0
bbc
They (We) are all going to die anyway. Thousands of stillbirths, etc , etc, is too high a price.
812
15/12/2020 14:31:14 3 2
bbc
Technically we're all 'going to die anyway'; so I'd be interested to know you're view on 'Quality of Life', since you're choosing on behalf of everyone else.
Plenty of oldies who'd enjoy sports, hobbies & contribute to the community via voluntary activities if not isolating; equally there's plenty of younger folk who are only enjoying full lives thanks to medical intervention e.g. diabetics.
881
15/12/2020 14:41:26 2 0
bbc
...and many elderly people are not of that opinion.
882
15/12/2020 14:41:26 10 2
bbc
On another forum about climate change there was a strong push against over population, however when it comes to covid there is public demands that no person should die until > 100. Go figure.
915
15/12/2020 14:47:21 6 4
bbc
It is brutal, and you're only saying that because you're younger. Your 'evidence', based on a few elderly relatives, is anecdotal and proves nothing. If you reach the age of 80, and you're in good physical and mental health, have a think about how you'd feel if others were happy to let you go so easily.
938
15/12/2020 14:50:57 0 0
bbc
I disagree
Where’s the cut off?
At which point do the lower classes make this choice?
When they’re suicidal?
Life expectancy for those is lower
It’s not only genetic vulnerability involved, our asthma rates are through the roof because of pollution
They need a discussion about quality of life, social mobility and access to services, which many need to realise is at opposite ends of the spectrum
947
15/12/2020 14:52:49 4 2
bbc
As you can see from the wingnut accusing you of being a eugenicist, a sensible, adult discussion about death and life expectancy is unlikely to be an easy road.

I look at how we treat the dying and am ashamed, we treated my dog better. Voluntary euthanasia should be part of the options available.
15/12/2020 15:10:19 1 1
bbc
Yes, gjb.
Let's have a discussion about death.
You start.
And when we've finished, we can have one about life expectancy.

What on earth are you talking about?
15/12/2020 15:13:39 2 1
bbc
OK, let's start that conversation. 80,000 people have died due to COVID despite most of us being in lockdown most of the year. If we came out of lockdown, what do you think would happen to hospital capacity and thus the death rate of younger people who need life saving care for other illnesses?
15/12/2020 15:14:31 0 1
bbc
You are making assumptions about older people, as many do since this pandemic. Wait until YOU get old.
15/12/2020 15:16:13 0 1
bbc
Only if it's linked to social and emotional intelligence.
In which case it ain't looking promising for you.
Removed
VoR
15/12/2020 15:37:52 0 0
bbc
And yet, the graph shows that we have far more deaths than we would have "got anyway".
15/12/2020 15:55:11 0 0
bbc
So we will volunteer you to stand at the hospital door and decide which person's life is not worth living? We are not part of 'Logan's Run' disposing of the old and infirm. The truth is many older people are already only given palliative care when they get Covid-19. Why should a healthy 75-80 year old have to die because we were not competent enough to stem this infection - other countries have.
15/12/2020 16:50:44 1 0
bbc
I remember visiting my Uncle in a care home, he had a terminal illness but mentally he was all there. The sights and sounds i saw in there will stay with me forever. Many of the residents had no idea who they were, where they were, screamed in pain or confusion and many were bedridden. It might sound brutal but if you had a pet in
this state you'd do the kindest thing by them.
29
15/12/2020 13:09:09 357 103
bbc
What we’re actually doing here, by enlarge, is counting old people dying.
Average age of Covid death is 82.4.
360 otherwise healthy under 60's have been lost to Covid.
1600 people die every day in the UK, we just don’t normally shine a spotlight on it.
61
15/12/2020 13:13:29 166 322
bbc
What we are actually seeing here is the number of deaths from a virus that could have have been avoided with competent leadership. You are conveniently forgetting about the long term effects this is going to have on people of all ages. But that wouldnt fit into your agenda, I suppose.
84
15/12/2020 13:15:50 34 8
bbc
It's the long term effects all this is going to have on people of all ages that I'm worried about.
188
dan
15/12/2020 13:25:11 55 8
bbc
What about the long term effects of missed cancer screenings, mental health, and job losses!! Doesn't fit your agenda?
208
15/12/2020 13:26:54 33 12
bbc
Accepting your view that leadership has been incompetent. Which equally is the case is Italy, Spain, and France and quite a few other European country's. What could the government have done differently? Lock down earlier for longer? And how would that have gone down? Should we have simply accepted the cull of old people?
It seems more like you have the agenda than the OP.
237
15/12/2020 13:29:22 36 15
bbc
So people like you were pointing at Germany as managing this really well for months with a marvelous trace and trace system, but they are in exactly the same position as us now, as are France, Italy, Belgium, Holland and Sweden now.

No matter what governments do , we all end up in the same place. It's a virus. We need to live with it. The vaccine will make little difference for at least 5 years.
333
15/12/2020 13:38:44 15 3
bbc
Long term effects are mass job losses , increase in welfare costs , complete loss of any future plans for the young working generation and those in education . Any of those lucky enough to get a job in the future will be taxed to the hilt to pay off debt . Not to mention mental health issues which will arise
432
BTJ
15/12/2020 13:47:27 8 7
bbc
Facts certainly don't fit your agenda. No doubt you have a crystal ball to see the long term effects of Covid or are you just making it up, like SAGE! Here are SAGE FACTS! Prof. Neil Ferguson, 250,000 deaths with lockdown. Chris Whitty, 4000 deaths per day...no, no, no!
436
15/12/2020 13:48:06 4 5
bbc
Nothing to do with leadership all to do with those who think they know better than the Government Advisors and refuse to follow the rules thereby endangering us all.
446
15/12/2020 13:49:10 8 1
bbc
I don’t think the leadership makes much of a difference, it isn’t as if the U.K. is out of Kilter with the rest of Europe, who have different leaders. More than 25 European nations have death rates over 500, and the U.K. isn’t the worst in terms of total numbers or death rate. U.K. handled it badly in March when the virus got into care homes, since then lots of countries have been worse
629
15/12/2020 14:08:44 0 1
bbc
It really is easy to keep blaming Boris Johnson isn’t it ? No government in the world has got everything right - that’s been impossible when dealing with this unprecedented global pandemic(except of course China (who had a head start after all! )
692
15/12/2020 14:16:17 3 1
bbc
Perhaps you could tell us how the virus could have been avoided. I am sure there are many leaders throughout the world who would welcome your advice.
708
15/12/2020 14:17:59 8 1
bbc
Utter nonsense gibberish. Is that why Germany is having 400 deaths a day now and is in total lockdown over Christmas? Germany the supposed perfect response. Is that Boris fault too?

Worldwide human pandemic that infects regardless of politics. Only NZ got away with it, a country 1500 miles from anywhere and a population of just 4m sparsely spread.
751
15/12/2020 14:24:10 2 2
bbc
Not true. We've artificially extended the lives of older people by applying massive medical resources to them over decades. The Flu vaccine artificially extended many lives for 15 years now. Those peolpe will die. In particular from many novel, flu, cold, corona, adeno, and other viruses. The price of 3000 to 5000 still births etc is too high to save 80 to 90 year olds with terminal conditions.
831
15/12/2020 14:34:21 3 1
bbc
The long term effects are called 'Economy destroying lock-down hysteria' or do you care to give us some numbers for all these people laid low long term?
42
15/12/2020 13:10:37 13 18
bbc
Watch that death rate sky rocket again from mid January thanks to the selfish idiots not maintaining lockdown over Christmas. The results of these people are costing lives.

Jesus Christ would say stay in and protect the vulnerable.
62
15/12/2020 13:13:37 1 1
bbc
Do you blame the shepherds or the sheep?
129
15/12/2020 13:19:28 0 2
bbc
Just idiots who refuse to stay in and do the right thing over Christmas.
63
15/12/2020 13:13:39 22 12
bbc
Whoever you are regardless of your political persuasion.

Just for 1 year stick to a few select family/friends who you come into contact with over Christmas.

Keep yourself and your family safe with masks & 2 metre rule where you can.
Then hopefully you’ll be able to spend many more years together
380
15/12/2020 13:41:55 4 0
bbc
Sensible.

Be kind, smile at your neighbour.
687
Rob
15/12/2020 14:15:31 1 1
bbc
Masks. Are you having a laugh! If masks worked then you wouldn't be seeing a spike in cases now.
64
15/12/2020 13:13:40 105 41
bbc
We're all dead at the end of the day. Excess deaths today will lead to a lower annual death toll in years to come. It's all playing with figures isn't it.
82
15/12/2020 13:15:44 28 9
bbc
At the end of the day? Would've stayed home from work o
If i knew, ah well might as well go out and mingle
with huge crowds now.
112
15/12/2020 13:17:53 15 3
bbc
What a b****y silly comment.
Tell your covid-racked grandfather he's just a number.
Yes, we're all dead at the end of the day. But I'd like to live the full 24 hours.
923
15/12/2020 14:49:13 3 0
bbc
You missed out a vital clause... "in the long term".

Life is surely not as hopeless or pointless as you make it sound.
15/12/2020 15:56:01 0 0
bbc
I have no idea what that post is supposed to even mean!
15/12/2020 17:50:30 0 0
bbc
No that would be playing with real peoples lives... Unless you want to throw all the 65+ year olds on the scrap heap.
15/12/2020 17:52:21 0 0
bbc
No doubt they said that during WW1.
33
15/12/2020 13:09:42 12 18
bbc
The other countries in Europe which had an October/November resurgence now have far fewer cases than the UK.
We seem to be almost uniquely lacking in common sense.
65
15/12/2020 13:13:42 3 1
bbc
Then why are they now imposing draconian Lockdowns over the whole Xmas New Year period across much of the EU.

try getting your facts right.
66
15/12/2020 13:13:44 1 5
bbc
Deaths lag cases by 2-4 weeks.
The decrease in cases is due to the dip in new cases during lockdown.
You've seen what has happened to the number of cases in the SE, so you know what's coming just after Christmas..... and as for January....
41
15/12/2020 13:10:23 58 30
bbc
The government are allowing some mixing at Christmas, but there are serious and valid concerns.
Simple solution.....don’t mix with others outside of your household, celebrate Christmas in your own home and reduce the risk of spreading or catching the virus.
It’s one Christmas, not the end of the world.
67
4wd
15/12/2020 13:13:51 27 15
bbc
Since schools and many workplaces will be closed for a number of days anyway the risk is being overhyped IMO
15/12/2020 16:58:32 0 0
bbc
Oh No it isn't
8
15/12/2020 13:05:32 126 48
bbc
Only the Beeb could possibly caveat good news so heavily.
The question is, why?
68
15/12/2020 13:13:55 60 16
bbc
Statisticians caveat their data if the publicly are unlikely to understand or will misinterpret them. There doesn't always have to be some sinister reason behind it...
125
15/12/2020 13:19:08 17 13
bbc
Hidden in the article is the fact that deaths dropped 20% in a week.
Had they risen by 20% it would be screaming from the headline.
The BBC's role is, or should be, to report news not to scaremonger or to dampen news that doesn't fit the script.
557
15/12/2020 14:00:12 2 0
bbc
Because Christmas, a fairly unique social even in the UK is 10 days away and likely to have quite the impact.
771
15/12/2020 14:26:26 7 7
bbc
It's the BBC . Britain's no 1 fake news outlet.
893
15/12/2020 14:43:39 2 1
bbc
11,856 non covid deaths v 3,100 'with' covid deaths surely doesn't need a statistician to explain, if it does, then HYS Covid Cultists are even dumber than I thought.
69
15/12/2020 13:14:15 19 14
bbc
What a badly written and confused article.
41
15/12/2020 13:10:23 58 30
bbc
The government are allowing some mixing at Christmas, but there are serious and valid concerns.
Simple solution.....don’t mix with others outside of your household, celebrate Christmas in your own home and reduce the risk of spreading or catching the virus.
It’s one Christmas, not the end of the world.
70
15/12/2020 13:14:19 4 1
bbc
Plus, most people aren't Christian anyway so it shouldn't be treated any differently to any other religious festival of 2020. In fact, for true Christians, Easter is more important.
726
15/12/2020 14:21:01 0 0
bbc
A festival at this time of year has been going since well before chrisianity came on the scene. The christians just took over the ancient pagan festival of Yule (three days after the winter solstice) as the populations of europe would be celecbrating it anyway.
2
15/12/2020 13:03:20 54 24
bbc
Wish they'd make their minds up figures up and down like a brides nightie.
71
15/12/2020 13:05:33 31 36
bbc
They are gaslighting us.
92
BZ
15/12/2020 13:16:49 3 3
bbc
Sorry what does that mean?
72
15/12/2020 13:05:50 23 5
bbc
Very grateful to Hancock / England for medical assistance being offered to us here in Wales - unfortunately our Government's handling of the pandemic has been disastrous compared to yours;
human Rights breaches in our Care Homes,
failed Welsh track & trace system (had to go cap in hand then too, to join Boris'),
failed 'fire break',
no masks worn in shops etc for weeks after England did it etc
133
15/12/2020 13:19:46 8 21
bbc
Hancock should be sitting in a cell for Christmas.
8
15/12/2020 13:05:32 126 48
bbc
Only the Beeb could possibly caveat good news so heavily.
The question is, why?
Removed
28
15/12/2020 13:08:56 179 88
bbc
This graph clearly shows that the pandemic basically ended in June. I would imagine that hospitals not treating people for other illnesses for a large part of the year hasn’t helped excess deaths, and clearly ‘deaths within 28 days of a positive test’ does not tell us how many people have actually died due to C-19. They need to start using proper stats, not stats designed to project fear.
74
15/12/2020 13:14:41 101 112
bbc
You are bad at reading and analysing data, so I would recommend not making public statements about data that make you look foolish.
Removed
838
15/12/2020 14:35:01 0 1
bbc
Would you care to explain the graph then?
943
15/12/2020 14:52:17 0 3
bbc
All statistics are governed by degrees of confidence. Nobody knows what variables are being used to work out the figures. Remember the saying . There are Lies, untruths and statistics.
VoR
15/12/2020 15:40:13 1 0
bbc
How did this comments get more downvotes than upvotes when it is clearly accurate? The original poster says the graph "clearly" indicates something which it does not.
15/12/2020 16:26:43 1 1
bbc
And you’re an expert are you?
15/12/2020 22:33:08 0 0
bbc
so, maybe you can tell us how many people have died exclusively from Covid, no one else can.
40
15/12/2020 13:10:13 7 15
bbc
Good old scaremongering disinformation service headline UK will blunder into Xmas what an absolute load of tosh people are not stupid they will take care of themselves as best they can and no doubt quite responsibly, but methinks the BBC are, the BBC is finished when Brexit is done they will sort you out and sorting out is what is needed.
75
15/12/2020 13:14:54 2 3
bbc
So people are not stupid? People will take care of themselves? Quite responsibly? So how did those 80000 excess deaths occur if people were being so responsible in looking after themselves? You're rant mentioned BBC and Brexit, just wainting to hear that you wear a tinfoil hat as well
157
dan
15/12/2020 13:21:43 1 2
bbc
Maybe the excess deaths, were because deaths have been low for the last 5 years?
76
15/12/2020 13:15:11 10 4
bbc
The death rate should fall as the vaccine should mean that people either do not get Covid or at least do not get so ill. Why increase the number of areas in tier 3 why not ask/make possible for those most at risk to quarantine until they get their vaccinations.
136
15/12/2020 13:20:23 7 6
bbc
Why does the BBC & HMG keep pushing this, the majority of those excess deaths occurred 9 months ago, mainly because HMG (and across Europe) Covid ill patients were put into care homes, the very places it would kill. The Euromomo statistics just do not back up this black-death scenario, we have had Flu years with almost as many deaths where we had a vaccine & we didn't infect the old & infirm
138
15/12/2020 13:20:34 1 2
bbc
Very few people have been vaccinated thus far and those that have won't be protected for several weeks yet...
189
15/12/2020 13:25:22 0 1
bbc
Yep lock em all up until after Easter.

How do you identify people most at risk? How do you look after people most at risk, or are you suggesting we don't.
33
15/12/2020 13:09:42 12 18
bbc
The other countries in Europe which had an October/November resurgence now have far fewer cases than the UK.
We seem to be almost uniquely lacking in common sense.
77
4wd
15/12/2020 13:15:14 0 1
bbc
It's really only London and the SE which is rising, further north positive tests are still generally falling or stable.
22
15/12/2020 13:04:47 5 10
bbc
Yes, I am gonna see my family. And I don't care if that upsets HYS grumps who are scared of their own shadows.

Me and my family have been VERY careful and made huge sacrifices this year. No grinch is gonna steal our Xmas.
78
15/12/2020 13:15:16 5 3
bbc
You've made huge sacrifices, and you want to squander those sacrifices now, on the eve of the nation being vaccinated? Why did you bother with sacrifices if you are going to give it all up to eat Brussels Sprouts together?
25
15/12/2020 13:08:14 737 236
bbc
The death count is flawed I'm afraid... I can test positive for Covid on Day 1, show no symptoms for 26 days and on Day 28 have a heart attack. Result? Covid death.

The harsh reality is that a lot of people in the 64,402 count were quite ill to begin with.

What is really required is a count of deaths OF covid, not WITH covid.
79
15/12/2020 13:15:31 25 86
bbc
So you are approving of eugenics?
159
Pip
15/12/2020 13:21:52 19 18
bbc
Of course he isn't, just stating reality...........?
25
15/12/2020 13:08:14 737 236
bbc
The death count is flawed I'm afraid... I can test positive for Covid on Day 1, show no symptoms for 26 days and on Day 28 have a heart attack. Result? Covid death.

The harsh reality is that a lot of people in the 64,402 count were quite ill to begin with.

What is really required is a count of deaths OF covid, not WITH covid.
80
15/12/2020 13:15:32 102 49
bbc
COVID causes damage to organs particularly heart and lungs. If COVID causes scarring on the heart that then leads to you having a heart attack then yes, you had a covid related death (those are the terms under which they report them).
180
15/12/2020 13:24:02 23 5
bbc
arcangel,
Those are not "the terms under which they report them". It's death from any cause within 28 days of a positive test.
"Survivors" should be reported to add perspective, using the same criteria - people who had a positive test and didn't die within 28 days.
81
dan
15/12/2020 13:15:36 4 10
bbc
The gov needs to do the smart thing and u-turn on relaxing rules over Christmas.

It's simply passing the buck, causing families to fight over whether to mix over Christmas.

My family is already in a no win situation with an elderly relative who is at risk but naive. Invite her and she could get covid, don't and she brands us "selfish" because all her friends are having a "normal" Christmas.
89
15/12/2020 13:16:30 5 2
bbc
Her decision
114
15/12/2020 13:18:03 1 2
bbc
That's your problem, it's up to your family to sort it. My family isn't fighting at all, just looking forward to spending Xmas together.
119
15/12/2020 13:18:41 2 2
bbc
Maybe you should stop treating your elderly relative like a child and let her make her mind up....I'm sure she knows the risks, she's old....not stupid.
158
15/12/2020 13:21:50 2 1
bbc
So you want the nanny state to look after you instead of having a straight up conversation with an elderly woman to tell her she is being selfish for not listening to your point of view?
226
15/12/2020 13:28:13 2 1
bbc
You could always exercise your free will and stay by yourself somewhere.
615
15/12/2020 14:06:35 1 0
bbc
Are you an adult or not? You need the Government to tell you what to do? I have a book by Nada Takashi "A Paean of Great Love - Kim Jong Il and the people." Reading the Covid Cultists on here is almost as unbelievable as the Paean to Kim Jong Il, but not half so funny.
64
15/12/2020 13:13:40 105 41
bbc
We're all dead at the end of the day. Excess deaths today will lead to a lower annual death toll in years to come. It's all playing with figures isn't it.
82
15/12/2020 13:15:44 28 9
bbc
At the end of the day? Would've stayed home from work o
If i knew, ah well might as well go out and mingle
with huge crowds now.
28
15/12/2020 13:08:56 179 88
bbc
This graph clearly shows that the pandemic basically ended in June. I would imagine that hospitals not treating people for other illnesses for a large part of the year hasn’t helped excess deaths, and clearly ‘deaths within 28 days of a positive test’ does not tell us how many people have actually died due to C-19. They need to start using proper stats, not stats designed to project fear.
83
15/12/2020 13:15:50 27 10
bbc
I guess you didn't do statistics or maths at school.

What an absurd remark and doesn't reflect the data shown in the charts.
61
15/12/2020 13:13:29 166 322
bbc
What we are actually seeing here is the number of deaths from a virus that could have have been avoided with competent leadership. You are conveniently forgetting about the long term effects this is going to have on people of all ages. But that wouldnt fit into your agenda, I suppose.
84
15/12/2020 13:15:50 34 8
bbc
It's the long term effects all this is going to have on people of all ages that I'm worried about.
265
15/12/2020 13:32:26 2 28
bbc
What long term effects are these? Also any long term effects could have been avoided with competent leadership.
85
15/12/2020 13:15:51 67 22
bbc
For all those judging people for breaking lockdown, visiting friends over Christmas etc can you honestly, hand in heart, say that you have never gone too fast in a car? Or gone to work with a touch of flu? All of these things can also endanger lives.
But this puritanical “burn the witch” approach that many adopt is divisive and not helpful.
120
15/12/2020 13:18:53 42 19
bbc
Too many pathetic witch burners on here. They have no life so think others shouldn't have either, and will prove so by marking down our comments.
131
15/12/2020 13:19:44 2 2
bbc
BURN THE WITCH !!!!

Sorry, couldn't resist :)
203
15/12/2020 13:26:30 7 6
bbc
Speeding, going to work with the flu... you know you are doing that. It's your decision, you are aware of the consequences and the risks - completely different. A lot of people have COVID and don't show symptoms so are passing it around their friends and family. That is the dangerous part and the reason for social distancing.
VoR
15/12/2020 15:49:02 1 1
bbc
To all those complaining against Belarus's police crippling political opponents, can you, hand on heart, say that you've never dropped a banana peel and potentially crippled someone?

The relative risks are orders of magnitude different. Taking just flu as an example, we have partial immunity to it already, because it isn't a completely new virus each time.
15/12/2020 16:39:02 1 0
bbc
Burning witches is NEVER the right course of action...
15/12/2020 18:52:08 1 0
bbc
And for all those people breaking lockdown and not using common sense, putting others lives at risk do you realise you are the ones causing deaths, pubs and restaurants closing, unemployment etc. etc. Its on your head. So by all means keep your 'rights' but take responsibility for the consequences. Its not 'puritanical' its about being a responsible adult.
41
15/12/2020 13:10:23 58 30
bbc
The government are allowing some mixing at Christmas, but there are serious and valid concerns.
Simple solution.....don’t mix with others outside of your household, celebrate Christmas in your own home and reduce the risk of spreading or catching the virus.
It’s one Christmas, not the end of the world.
86
15/12/2020 13:15:53 2 8
bbc
Who died and made you King?
456
15/12/2020 13:49:27 5 0
bbc
What has that got to do with anything?
People are raising concerns about the risks. I’m simply saying if you have concerns, then don’t mix with your family at Christmas.
If you have a problem with that, it’s your look out.
49
15/12/2020 13:11:53 60 22
bbc
92% of statistics are made up on the spot.
87
15/12/2020 13:16:11 58 9
bbc
You're wrong. It's 93%
248
15/12/2020 13:30:40 13 1
bbc
Actually you may be suprised to hear that 92% of 93 year olds believe 94% of the statistics that they read. Thats enough to fill 6 Olympic Size Swimming Pools or in other words 47 Double Decker Buses placed end to end.
980
15/12/2020 14:57:40 0 1
bbc
I think you both just made that up on the spot. Statistically, you're both incorrect.
15/12/2020 15:12:34 1 0
bbc
is that 50% of the time with a probablility of +/- 10%
15/12/2020 15:28:38 1 0
bbc
I was sure it was 91%
88
15/12/2020 13:16:18 1 2
bbc
Well.. This is getting rid of the old and the non-producers.
Was out.
Sorry I missed you.
81
dan
15/12/2020 13:15:36 4 10
bbc
The gov needs to do the smart thing and u-turn on relaxing rules over Christmas.

It's simply passing the buck, causing families to fight over whether to mix over Christmas.

My family is already in a no win situation with an elderly relative who is at risk but naive. Invite her and she could get covid, don't and she brands us "selfish" because all her friends are having a "normal" Christmas.
89
15/12/2020 13:16:30 5 2
bbc
Her decision
60
gjb
15/12/2020 13:13:14 278 61
bbc
Is it not about time we had a discussion about death and life expectancy in this country. Alot of people who have died were frail or had underlying health conditions and were probably going to die anyway. Sounds brutal but we need to be realistic. Quality of life far outweighs quantity of life, many of my elderly relatives are of this opinion and have living wills indicating their wishes.
90
15/12/2020 13:16:34 161 36
bbc
100 per cent right,pity the media refuse to give the same story
Top yourself if you want, Tory boy. Nobody going to stop you. It's the one area I'd encourage you to exercise those libertarian sentiments on yourself. Removed
51
15/12/2020 13:12:18 423 42
bbc
What about the other deaths not from Covid being ignored, like that father in his 20s lost to cancer, because he was repeatedly refused an MRI scan and resultant treatment as revealed yesterday; why did he and the young family left behind seemingly not matter?
91
15/12/2020 13:16:36 229 32
bbc
Because it's much easier to virtue signal a soundbite than it is to understand the nuances of your decisions and thus make difficult moral decisions.

I sympathise immensely with all those who have faced irrepairable damage due to the imposed lockdowns.
15/12/2020 15:26:09 0 0
bbc
Yes but here’s the problem: if the virus is left to run unchecked, the hospital situation will get even worse than it is now.
There is only one solution: tighter control of the virus. Complete lockdown. When the numbers are actually DOWN, schools go back on a Rota, use masks more widely. Open the nightingale hospitals: those that test positive can recover there, to save their families.
VoR
15/12/2020 15:35:15 1 0
bbc
You speak from experience, I notice.

If fewer cancer patients die from postponing scans and treatment than die from attending them with some catching covid as a direct result, it would still make sense to postpone, without then pointing at those who die as evidence that the decision would be wrong. But you seem to have overlooked this in your rush to deliver your own sound bite.
71
15/12/2020 13:05:33 31 36
bbc
They are gaslighting us.
92
BZ
15/12/2020 13:16:49 3 3
bbc
Sorry what does that mean?
162
15/12/2020 13:22:20 10 2
bbc
Not what Palatable thinks it does.! He's just heard a new word.
201
Pip
15/12/2020 13:26:16 1 3
bbc
Type 'Gaslighting' into Google, tells you all...........?
222
15/12/2020 13:27:50 9 2
bbc
It means I've heard a clever sounding phrase (it isn't) to make myself sound clever (it doesn't).
361
15/12/2020 13:28:33 2 8
bbc
Have you heard of Google ? I am not your personal search engine.
33
15/12/2020 13:09:42 12 18
bbc
The other countries in Europe which had an October/November resurgence now have far fewer cases than the UK.
We seem to be almost uniquely lacking in common sense.
93
15/12/2020 13:17:01 1 1
bbc
Are you reading last month's news.
94
15/12/2020 13:10:57 26 2
bbc
Listening to journalists outside No. 10, "Are we getting Christmas this year?". Idiotic.

If Boris cancels the relaxation plans, he'll be the PM who "cancelled Christmas". Whatever that means in the midst of a global pandemic.

Yet, if he doesn't do anything then he'll be blamed for any COVID death over the festive season.
171
15/12/2020 13:23:11 22 2
bbc
I agree, Christmas happens every year, a lot of people don't celebrate it anyway.

Just celebrate carefully and on your own/household
196
15/12/2020 13:26:04 2 2
bbc
Maybe that's the difference between a populist and a responsible leader; the one of the two does what's right regardless of what the journalists might or might not say.
199
15/12/2020 13:26:13 2 3
bbc
And deserves all the blame that comes his way.. a clown appointing a cabinet if fellow clowns ...what did the country expect
15/12/2020 15:41:42 1 0
bbc
We have a useless bunch of journos in the UK, who bring the profession into disrepute.
95
15/12/2020 13:12:53 2 3
bbc
mike
13:09
"Oh don't worry, it will go back up again over Christmas"

Yay!!
198
15/12/2020 13:26:11 1 2
bbc
*as planned
10
15/12/2020 13:05:57 18 29
bbc
I've made my plans....I'm not changing them for you or anyone.

Let me know where to send my cheque when they fine me.
Removed
42
15/12/2020 13:10:37 13 18
bbc
Watch that death rate sky rocket again from mid January thanks to the selfish idiots not maintaining lockdown over Christmas. The results of these people are costing lives.

Jesus Christ would say stay in and protect the vulnerable.
97
15/12/2020 13:13:25 1 1
bbc
Who gives a damn about Jesus ?

And I WILL see my family. You can't stop me.
42
15/12/2020 13:10:37 13 18
bbc
Watch that death rate sky rocket again from mid January thanks to the selfish idiots not maintaining lockdown over Christmas. The results of these people are costing lives.

Jesus Christ would say stay in and protect the vulnerable.
98
15/12/2020 13:14:54 0 1
bbc
Have you asked him?
29
15/12/2020 13:09:09 357 103
bbc
What we’re actually doing here, by enlarge, is counting old people dying.
Average age of Covid death is 82.4.
360 otherwise healthy under 60's have been lost to Covid.
1600 people die every day in the UK, we just don’t normally shine a spotlight on it.
99
15/12/2020 13:14:55 32 41
bbc
Yes, but COVID doesn't just kill. It leaves people in a seriously debilitated state. The effects of 'long COVID' are not yet fully understood.
137
15/12/2020 13:20:23 47 24
bbc
Scaremongering much?! Some people yes, a very very small number. When considering overall risk it's very low.
166
15/12/2020 13:22:41 64 26
bbc
Long Covid is perhaps the most ridiculous of all the “scare tactics” used. Many viruses , including the seasonal flu, can have debilitating effects.
653
15/12/2020 14:11:35 7 2
bbc
a tiny minority may have lasting effects but that's the same with influenza, pneumonia, glandular fever. The biggest lasting effect is more likely as a result of the economical impact to lives.
803
15/12/2020 14:29:37 6 0
bbc
I had "long chickenpox" in my 30's - was wiped-out for 6 months afterwards. It happens with a lot of viruses, I was fine after that.
100
15/12/2020 13:14:58 1 3
bbc
Surrey Soothsayer

"Jesus Christ would say stay in and protect the vulnerable".

Who's that then?
343
15/12/2020 13:39:27 0 0
bbc
Why would he say that, when he could cure sick people and bring the dead back to life?
577
15/12/2020 14:03:06 0 0
bbc
or more bluntly Matthew 8:21-22