Ireland and Scotland in same RWC pool
14/12/2020 | sport | rugbyunion | 1,090
Ireland and Scotland will face each other in the pool stages of the 2023 Rugby World Cup in France.
1
14/12/2020 12:22:54 38 9
bbc
As a Welshman, I'm happy with that. Should manage top two, even with our atrocious current form! Three years to sort ourselves out, so surely we can't get any worse?
16
jmw
14/12/2020 12:27:38 30 4
bbc
Agreed, good draw for Wales. New Zealand and France should both get out of their group as well unless Italy improve markedly. England should beat both Japan and Argentina, but neither matches are anything like certainties. The SA group looks like the ‘group of death’ this time.
69
14/12/2020 12:36:37 1 1
bbc
Agreed. And likely to be Georgia and (if the same qualifier as the last WC I think either Canada or Uruguay) which isn't too bad
219
14/12/2020 13:41:45 0 2
bbc
Dont worry HertfordPaul Wales will be ready you can be certain of that.
416
14/12/2020 16:25:02 5 1
bbc
Didn’t Fiji knock Wales out a few tournos ago.....
560
14/12/2020 18:39:54 0 1
bbc
Agreed, a very easy draw for Wales.
2
14/12/2020 12:24:05 2 1
bbc
Does anyone know which pool plays off against which in the knockout stages?
11
14/12/2020 12:26:43 0 1
bbc
Usually AvD and BvC
13
14/12/2020 12:27:26 0 1
bbc
Not sure but I'm guessing AvsB and CvsD as it has been in previous tournaments
33
14/12/2020 12:30:25 0 1
bbc
If it's the same as 2019, it's C1 v D2 and B1 v A2 in one half and C2 v D1 and B2 v A1 in the other
39
14/12/2020 12:31:04 1 1
bbc
It would be a useful article if they told us that.
3
kai
14/12/2020 12:24:07 5 3
bbc
Why is it always the same groups every single time?something needs to change.its getting ridiculous now..
32
14/12/2020 12:30:22 2 4
bbc
It's not. Suggest you look back through previous World Cup groupings.
4
14/12/2020 12:24:43 18 1
bbc
Well that had a kind of inevitability about it for Wales
5
14/12/2020 12:24:59 8 14
bbc
So England almost get bye to the knock out stages??
21
14/12/2020 12:28:43 11 4
bbc
So Argentina, who recently beat NZ and drew twice away to Australia are nothing? Or how about Japan who beat both Ireland and Scotland and topped their group last WC?
50
14/12/2020 12:32:37 3 2
bbc
Against Argentina who just beat NZ. Yeah
55
jmw
14/12/2020 12:34:14 4 2
bbc
Do you watch any rugby then or did you miss Argentina’s results against the All Blacks and Australia this year and Japan making the WC quarter finals last year?
312
14/12/2020 14:38:44 0 1
bbc
It was a cunning plan to do that. Sigh...

There are many teams I’d prefer England to meet than Argentina and most closer to home.
490
14/12/2020 17:33:56 0 1
bbc
about time!
6
14/12/2020 12:25:16 10 15
bbc
I know it’s done by rankings, but England’s pool is a joke.
19
14/12/2020 12:27:55 7 5
bbc
Why? Japan and Argentina are good teams.
26
14/12/2020 12:28:56 6 2
bbc
Not sure having the strongest 3rd band team makes it a joke.

Japan topped their pool in the last RWC as well!
63
14/12/2020 12:35:46 1 5
bbc
It always is...the hand of Billy Beumont!
321
14/12/2020 14:43:55 1 1
bbc
How would you do it? Base it in what you think best on a given day? It’s never perfect.

Why are Wales seeded would be a better question. If they weren’t, we might have have had an england, Japan, Wales pool which would have been fun.
7
14/12/2020 12:25:20 6 8
bbc
France NZ final then
173
14/12/2020 13:17:09 0 1
bbc
Genuinely wouldn’t be surprised!
8
14/12/2020 12:25:44 11 13
bbc
could be an early ticket home for the welsh.... Great for England
27
14/12/2020 12:29:11 8 3
bbc
Amazing you can see three years in advance, how do you do that?
34
jmw
14/12/2020 12:30:29 3 2
bbc
Clearly you’re not much of an England rugby fan if you’re just assuming we can stroll past Japan and Argentina. Or are you just a WUM looking to get the whole arrogant England thing going again?
73
14/12/2020 12:37:59 2 3
bbc
Take it you didn't see Argentina, with a weeks preparation beat NZ a couple of weeks ago
9
14/12/2020 12:25:51 109 7
bbc
Also how have Wales ended up in the same group for the 100th time in a row?
99
14/12/2020 12:44:35 29 3
bbc
Given that Georgia are basically nailed on for the Europe 1 spot, I'm getting a real sense of deja vu right now.
113
14/12/2020 12:49:36 1 1
bbc
Just worked it out - once Georgia were placed in C there was a 2% chance of Wales, Oz and Fiji being drawn in the same group...
134
14/12/2020 12:59:16 0 1
bbc
Every single time!! ??
152
14/12/2020 13:07:13 0 1
bbc
It does seem odd, still, it makes it easier for basing myself with my Australian mate I always go to the World Cup with
212
14/12/2020 13:34:38 7 9
bbc
Because you are lucky, you shouldn't have been seeded, Argentina should have been.
305
14/12/2020 14:30:30 3 8
bbc
It's quite simple really, rugby still isn't a big enough sport to have a 'World Cup', so you continually meet the same teams, who are pretty much the same ones you play against every year anyway.
479
14/12/2020 17:18:11 0 1
bbc
And New Zealand and Italy are always in the same group
559
14/12/2020 18:39:35 0 6
bbc
That's impossible there hasn't been 100 tournaments
763
14/12/2020 23:14:09 1 1
bbc
Yes and how come England have never met Ireland and Scotland have never met Wales?
10
14/12/2020 12:26:36 2 5
bbc
Wales get Fiji and Aus again! When will England meet Ireland in a pool stage?

As for England not bad, could have been a whole load worse. France will win if they don't do a England and implode at home.
2
14/12/2020 12:24:05 2 1
bbc
Does anyone know which pool plays off against which in the knockout stages?
11
14/12/2020 12:26:43 0 1
bbc
Usually AvD and BvC
12
14/12/2020 12:26:59 2 1
bbc
Somewhat happy about the draw as a Welshman. Could've been a lot worse! Fiji a definite banana skin though
2
14/12/2020 12:24:05 2 1
bbc
Does anyone know which pool plays off against which in the knockout stages?
13
14/12/2020 12:27:26 0 1
bbc
Not sure but I'm guessing AvsB and CvsD as it has been in previous tournaments
14
14/12/2020 12:27:30 10 2
bbc
Reasonably happy as an England fan. Weakest 2nd seed, strongest 3rd seed. Should be solid favourites to top the pool.

NZ and Australia fans will probably be happiest. Scotland fans not so much.
31
14/12/2020 12:30:12 8 5
bbc
I don’t think NZ will be happy to play hosts France who are having a massive resurgence. You have to say that the top 4 will be NZ, France, SA and England in no particular order.
200
14/12/2020 13:30:31 0 1
bbc
I disagree about NZ. The last pool 2 side whey wanted were the hosts, and France are the coming team. I fancy France to have a very good chance at the next WC. If they drop NZ in the pool stage and head the group, all predicted routes through the KO stages will be thrown into chaos.
15
14/12/2020 12:27:34 6 1
bbc
We're going to have to start to shift the six nations dominance of Ireland in this fixture over the next couple of years to have any chance of beating them in France. SA fairly guaranteed of a QF place I'd have thought.
496
14/12/2020 17:37:56 0 1
bbc
as usual
1
14/12/2020 12:22:54 38 9
bbc
As a Welshman, I'm happy with that. Should manage top two, even with our atrocious current form! Three years to sort ourselves out, so surely we can't get any worse?
16
jmw
14/12/2020 12:27:38 30 4
bbc
Agreed, good draw for Wales. New Zealand and France should both get out of their group as well unless Italy improve markedly. England should beat both Japan and Argentina, but neither matches are anything like certainties. The SA group looks like the ‘group of death’ this time.
209
14/12/2020 13:33:50 5 1
bbc
It’s a poor draw for NZ/Fra as one of them plays SA in the 1/4s. On current form it will be a poorer tournament with one of those 3 missing from the last 4.
222
14/12/2020 13:43:26 1 1
bbc
Yeah for Scotland
225
14/12/2020 13:44:56 4 4
bbc
SA the group of death ! If I was a SA supporter that is the group I would want to be in.
447
14/12/2020 16:48:17 0 2
bbc
Yeah, coz all the NH teams will be fighting for 2nd place.
17
14/12/2020 12:27:40 8 1
bbc
Japan v Argentina should be an interesting match. As a half English half Japanese house could be fun!
18
14/12/2020 12:27:45 1 12
bbc
England Have the group of Death again.
38
roy
14/12/2020 12:31:02 3 1
bbc
I hope you’re joking
52
14/12/2020 12:33:35 0 1
bbc
:-D
54
14/12/2020 12:33:55 1 5
bbc
Hardly! Their usual pass to the semi-finals ...and won't play all their pool games because of a tsunami!
6
14/12/2020 12:25:16 10 15
bbc
I know it’s done by rankings, but England’s pool is a joke.
19
14/12/2020 12:27:55 7 5
bbc
Why? Japan and Argentina are good teams.
20
14/12/2020 12:28:24 1 2
bbc
SPICY
5
14/12/2020 12:24:59 8 14
bbc
So England almost get bye to the knock out stages??
21
14/12/2020 12:28:43 11 4
bbc
So Argentina, who recently beat NZ and drew twice away to Australia are nothing? Or how about Japan who beat both Ireland and Scotland and topped their group last WC?
22
14/12/2020 12:28:45 7 11
bbc
Already comments about England's pool being too easy. Clearly nobody watched Argentina in the Tri Nations, or Japan in the last 8 years. Wales and South Africa have easier groups.
41
14/12/2020 12:31:11 2 2
bbc
Plus one of Samoa or Tonga - that's going to take its toll as a physical match
46
14/12/2020 12:32:08 2 2
bbc
For sure. Australia like us are in a transition. Fiji can be hit and miss. But Argentina and Japan are going to be well drilled and up for the fight
95
14/12/2020 12:43:53 2 1
bbc
SA have an easier group - seriously!
Japan not playing at home next go around so will depend on development but I'd rather Japan & Argentina to Ireland & Scotland.

If Fiji could play together more then they would be a hell of a team as they are unbelievable going forward, defensively and up front need improvement but most of that is attitude - imagine Gatland & Edwards coaching Fiji - frightening
23
14/12/2020 12:28:47 8 2
bbc
If this was played today, I could see Wales missing out

What a pool B

Can’t wait
96
14/12/2020 12:43:55 5 17
bbc
If this was played today Wales should beat Fiji comfortably
24
14/12/2020 12:28:53 7 1
bbc
Wales and Fiji - written in the stars...
25
14/12/2020 12:28:55 85 3
bbc
Are Wales contractually obliged to play at least one of Australia and Fiji every world cup?
374
14/12/2020 15:37:21 18 31
bbc
Australia could not beat their women's team and Fiji are a sevens team at best a great pool for Wales to finish top 1
398
14/12/2020 15:59:25 1 1
bbc
No. Contractually obliged to play both every WC and I believe Georgia too.
652
14/12/2020 20:06:30 2 1
bbc
I'd love to know how they get a band A billing with a band C team
693
14/12/2020 21:11:52 0 1
bbc
Yes
6
14/12/2020 12:25:16 10 15
bbc
I know it’s done by rankings, but England’s pool is a joke.
26
14/12/2020 12:28:56 6 2
bbc
Not sure having the strongest 3rd band team makes it a joke.

Japan topped their pool in the last RWC as well!
43
14/12/2020 12:31:36 0 1
bbc
Rankings based on pre covid.
8
14/12/2020 12:25:44 11 13
bbc
could be an early ticket home for the welsh.... Great for England
27
14/12/2020 12:29:11 8 3
bbc
Amazing you can see three years in advance, how do you do that?
28
14/12/2020 12:29:24 4 1
bbc
So is it Winner pool D plays runner up pool C in QF? I hope that match is England vs Wales if so. Before anyone says it, absolutely nothing to do with wanting Wales to lose a pool game - would just love the anticipation and build up to that game! We owe Wales one from 2015!

Watched the draw live, fair few people in the room and they all groaned when NZ were drawn in France's pool!
51
14/12/2020 12:32:51 12 13
bbc
Assuming England win their group! Usual arrogance! :)
29
14/12/2020 12:29:34 9 2
bbc
Wales, Australia and Fiji... Again!!
I called it as soon as I saw Fiji drawn
767
14/12/2020 23:18:50 0 0
bbc
Lol I think a lot of people called it BEFORE Fiji were drawn
30
14/12/2020 12:29:39 3 4
bbc
Why is it Wales get Australia and Fiji all of the time it's a fix
48
14/12/2020 12:32:30 1 2
bbc
Only this time Wales have got them as the top seed. They should be fancying their chances against anyone they could possibly have drawn.
14
14/12/2020 12:27:30 10 2
bbc
Reasonably happy as an England fan. Weakest 2nd seed, strongest 3rd seed. Should be solid favourites to top the pool.

NZ and Australia fans will probably be happiest. Scotland fans not so much.
31
14/12/2020 12:30:12 8 5
bbc
I don’t think NZ will be happy to play hosts France who are having a massive resurgence. You have to say that the top 4 will be NZ, France, SA and England in no particular order.
58
14/12/2020 12:34:42 3 3
bbc
Both are almost guaranteed to qualify for the quarter finals and they avoid each other in the knockout stages.

Really it's better to be in a pool where top 2 is basically guaranteed.

Pool B and D are pools where you basically have a 3 way shootout for 2 spots.

England missed out in 2015 for that very reason.

SA and England should top their pools but potential banana skins in their pools.
86
14/12/2020 12:41:34 5 3
bbc
NZ, France & SA cannot all make last 4.
743
14/12/2020 22:39:26 0 1
bbc
No that is impossible now because of the draw. SA will face either Fra or NZ in the quarters.
3
kai
14/12/2020 12:24:07 5 3
bbc
Why is it always the same groups every single time?something needs to change.its getting ridiculous now..
32
14/12/2020 12:30:22 2 4
bbc
It's not. Suggest you look back through previous World Cup groupings.
2
14/12/2020 12:24:05 2 1
bbc
Does anyone know which pool plays off against which in the knockout stages?
33
14/12/2020 12:30:25 0 1
bbc
If it's the same as 2019, it's C1 v D2 and B1 v A2 in one half and C2 v D1 and B2 v A1 in the other
8
14/12/2020 12:25:44 11 13
bbc
could be an early ticket home for the welsh.... Great for England
34
jmw
14/12/2020 12:30:29 3 2
bbc
Clearly you’re not much of an England rugby fan if you’re just assuming we can stroll past Japan and Argentina. Or are you just a WUM looking to get the whole arrogant England thing going again?
35
14/12/2020 12:30:48 2 2
bbc
If A runners up play B winners, AB’s could play springboks in the quarters? France could win that group.
36
14/12/2020 12:30:52 19 3
bbc
England should have a safe passage, Wales have to focus on beating Fiji - if they can't do that, do they deserve to progress?
I feel sorry for Scotland - tough ask to beat SA or Ire to escape.
After a dismal year, something good to look forward to - can hardly wait !!
57
14/12/2020 12:34:35 15 3
bbc
As long as your patient it's 3.5 years to go
37
14/12/2020 12:31:02 56 2
bbc
Swear to god Wales get Australia and Fiji at literally every single World Cup
61
14/12/2020 12:35:02 14 22
bbc
Yeah, makes you wonder how random the draw really is
155
14/12/2020 13:10:48 3 2
bbc
True - but would you rather face the ABs in the pool stages? The Welsh boys should be able to qualify easily from this group - probably top the table.
339
14/12/2020 14:53:54 4 1
bbc
Fiji 5 in a row, Australia 4 out of the last 5
18
14/12/2020 12:27:45 1 12
bbc
England Have the group of Death again.
38
roy
14/12/2020 12:31:02 3 1
bbc
I hope you’re joking
2
14/12/2020 12:24:05 2 1
bbc
Does anyone know which pool plays off against which in the knockout stages?
39
14/12/2020 12:31:04 1 1
bbc
It would be a useful article if they told us that.
40
14/12/2020 12:31:11 29 2
bbc
Put Samoa in the SA, Ireland & Scotland group - ouch!
Wales have the same group again.
England need to not underestimate the Japanese and Args.
452
14/12/2020 16:51:26 4 2
bbc
More likely to be Tonga, Samoa will probably be Oceania 1 ie. in England's group.
984
15/12/2020 14:03:55 0 0
bbc
They won't.
22
14/12/2020 12:28:45 7 11
bbc
Already comments about England's pool being too easy. Clearly nobody watched Argentina in the Tri Nations, or Japan in the last 8 years. Wales and South Africa have easier groups.
41
14/12/2020 12:31:11 2 2
bbc
Plus one of Samoa or Tonga - that's going to take its toll as a physical match
42
14/12/2020 12:31:16 11 19
bbc
England get their usual draw of Narnia, Lapland and Lilliput just like in the football. TV audiences count for something after all.
26
14/12/2020 12:28:56 6 2
bbc
Not sure having the strongest 3rd band team makes it a joke.

Japan topped their pool in the last RWC as well!
43
14/12/2020 12:31:36 0 1
bbc
Rankings based on pre covid.
44
14/12/2020 12:31:38 14 8
bbc
"Group of death" is probably South Africa, Ireland and Scotland. Although if Japan are as good as last world cup and Argentina improve back towards their 2015 standard England's group will rival, if not exceed it.
66
jmw
14/12/2020 12:36:02 22 2
bbc
Argentina have already ‘improved’ back to that level, played 4 this year, one win and one loss against the All Blacks, two draws against Australia.
45
14/12/2020 12:32:06 2 2
bbc
Wales have been drawn with Fiji 5 times in a row
22
14/12/2020 12:28:45 7 11
bbc
Already comments about England's pool being too easy. Clearly nobody watched Argentina in the Tri Nations, or Japan in the last 8 years. Wales and South Africa have easier groups.
46
14/12/2020 12:32:08 2 2
bbc
For sure. Australia like us are in a transition. Fiji can be hit and miss. But Argentina and Japan are going to be well drilled and up for the fight
47
14/12/2020 12:32:27 5 1
bbc
Well it wouldn’t be a Rugby World Cup if we didn’t draw Australia ??
769
14/12/2020 23:23:07 0 0
bbc
Would you rather NZ instead? ??
30
14/12/2020 12:29:39 3 4
bbc
Why is it Wales get Australia and Fiji all of the time it's a fix
48
14/12/2020 12:32:30 1 2
bbc
Only this time Wales have got them as the top seed. They should be fancying their chances against anyone they could possibly have drawn.
91
14/12/2020 12:43:23 0 1
bbc
Why do Wales have such influence that they got the seeding date back to before they started their run of defeats. The draw should have been postponed till Spring 2023, or December 2022 using rankings at these dates
49
14/12/2020 12:32:35 14 3
bbc
That will be good for England, with extremely competitive matches with Japan and Arg ahead but they will be confident.
Already buzzing for Fra vs NZ !!
449
14/12/2020 16:49:04 4 3
bbc
Could be the final.
5
14/12/2020 12:24:59 8 14
bbc
So England almost get bye to the knock out stages??
50
14/12/2020 12:32:37 3 2
bbc
Against Argentina who just beat NZ. Yeah
28
14/12/2020 12:29:24 4 1
bbc
So is it Winner pool D plays runner up pool C in QF? I hope that match is England vs Wales if so. Before anyone says it, absolutely nothing to do with wanting Wales to lose a pool game - would just love the anticipation and build up to that game! We owe Wales one from 2015!

Watched the draw live, fair few people in the room and they all groaned when NZ were drawn in France's pool!
51
14/12/2020 12:32:51 12 13
bbc
Assuming England win their group! Usual arrogance! :)
64
14/12/2020 12:35:58 4 3
bbc
Haha ok fair enough. Guess I kind of deserved that. To be fair though, I had assumed that Eng would come up with a plan other than KICK IT DOWN THE MIDDLE by 2023, otherwise it''ll be Wales vs Japan or Argentina!
143
14/12/2020 13:02:50 4 2
bbc
Totally agree!! Arrogant England, thinking they can beat a team that's never beaten them and a team that last beat an England As side in 2009 lions year summer tour. I can't believe their hubris
144
14/12/2020 13:03:13 2 1
bbc
England are number 2 in the world only behind the Springboks so should win group. If number 2 doesn't win the group who will
18
14/12/2020 12:27:45 1 12
bbc
England Have the group of Death again.
52
14/12/2020 12:33:35 0 1
bbc
:-D
53
Nic
14/12/2020 12:33:54 61 1
bbc
I don't get the logic of World Rugby. There's a global pandemic and they choose to do the bands even earlier than the already ridiculous method of working out the bands. As much as FIFA have their flaws at least they have common sense to do the bands/draw leading up to the competition.
963
15/12/2020 12:55:13 0 0
bbc
At least wait until all teams have qualified
18
14/12/2020 12:27:45 1 12
bbc
England Have the group of Death again.
54
14/12/2020 12:33:55 1 5
bbc
Hardly! Their usual pass to the semi-finals ...and won't play all their pool games because of a tsunami!
88
14/12/2020 12:42:20 1 1
bbc
Mistral this time... ;)
5
14/12/2020 12:24:59 8 14
bbc
So England almost get bye to the knock out stages??
55
jmw
14/12/2020 12:34:14 4 2
bbc
Do you watch any rugby then or did you miss Argentina’s results against the All Blacks and Australia this year and Japan making the WC quarter finals last year?
56
14/12/2020 12:34:22 4 1
bbc
Wales playing Fiji and Australia again.Deja vu thrice over.A bit of variety would be nice for a change.Just need Uruguay to complete the group.
36
14/12/2020 12:30:52 19 3
bbc
England should have a safe passage, Wales have to focus on beating Fiji - if they can't do that, do they deserve to progress?
I feel sorry for Scotland - tough ask to beat SA or Ire to escape.
After a dismal year, something good to look forward to - can hardly wait !!
57
14/12/2020 12:34:35 15 3
bbc
As long as your patient it's 3.5 years to go
136
14/12/2020 12:59:41 4 1
bbc
3.5 years? Are you sure you have the right World Cup? It will all be over in 2. 5. England should play Wales or Australia in the Quarter Finals
147
14/12/2020 13:05:26 1 1
bbc
I guess you have a Phd in maths
269
14/12/2020 14:10:22 1 1
bbc
2.5 years
31
14/12/2020 12:30:12 8 5
bbc
I don’t think NZ will be happy to play hosts France who are having a massive resurgence. You have to say that the top 4 will be NZ, France, SA and England in no particular order.
58
14/12/2020 12:34:42 3 3
bbc
Both are almost guaranteed to qualify for the quarter finals and they avoid each other in the knockout stages.

Really it's better to be in a pool where top 2 is basically guaranteed.

Pool B and D are pools where you basically have a 3 way shootout for 2 spots.

England missed out in 2015 for that very reason.

SA and England should top their pools but potential banana skins in their pools.
111
14/12/2020 12:48:57 1 1
bbc
Pool B is a 2 way shoot out for 1 spot - no way SA are missing out in that.
440
14/12/2020 16:44:18 2 1
bbc
England missed out in 2015 because Robshaw can’t count.
59
14/12/2020 12:34:51 246 7
bbc
What other global comp makes its draw based on seedlings 999 days before tournament. Absolutely ridiculous!
77
14/12/2020 12:39:46 165 4
bbc
Like my spelling of “seedings”. Thanks iPad.
87
14/12/2020 12:41:35 8 1
bbc
Very good point, it is ludicrous!
217
14/12/2020 13:41:26 4 7
bbc
It's not perfect, but you can (possibly worryingly) already more or less predict who is going through to the last 8 from each group, with the sole exception of Pool D, which will come down to the winner of Argentina v Japan. Fiji *might* squeak past Wales, but that's the only other wildcard.
227
14/12/2020 13:46:58 4 1
bbc
Emergency Services Cup?
245
14/12/2020 13:58:24 3 2
bbc
As the way they calculate the world rankings leads to the top 8 changing at regular intervals it does seem strange to use seedings which will not reflect form nearer the competition.

But in reality will it actually make any difference as the only 4 countries have ever won this tournament NZ, AUS, SA and ENG.
251
14/12/2020 14:00:25 1 4
bbc
Based upon how well teams did in the previous World cup - hence Band 1 teams included Wales.
281
14/12/2020 14:14:46 10 1
bbc
Just rip it up and draw it again in two years
323
14/12/2020 14:44:16 3 1
bbc
Does it really make much difference when the draw is made

The top 4 seeds are any 4 from 6 and the next 4 similar

The top 12 teams only vary by one or two at the bottom

So in essence the same 12 teams will be there somewhere with a couple of whipping dogs per group
The tournament will always have a few surprises which is what makes sport great and even if the draw is1 yr before form will change
405
14/12/2020 16:05:43 6 1
bbc
It happened in 2015. Group A was Aus, Eng and Wales - at the time of the draw, Wales were 9th seeds. When it came to the finals these teams were all in the top 5 in the rankings

Stupid - why draw it now? whats the rush
644
14/12/2020 19:48:56 0 3
bbc
what difference does it make when the draw is made? 999 days is a bit better than 9 days eh.
745
14/12/2020 22:43:53 1 1
bbc
Absolutely right! Absolutely no need. They could waited two years and used cthe then current seedings.
807
15/12/2020 01:01:12 1 1
bbc
It means the same teams that are always seeded top statistically have a better chance of getting to the semis and increasing their rankings for the next world cup.

Then spend the next few years developing your squad without having to care about rankings.

Rinse and repeat
60
14/12/2020 12:34:52 4 3
bbc
Crikey pool B is tough!!
Wales, Australia & Fiji is quite tasty too.
England looks the easier route but you never know.
Really exciting groups, long time to go but France must be excited with their crop of youngsters coming through.
83
14/12/2020 12:40:54 3 1
bbc
Wales should beat Fiji comfortably. Australia at present are mediocre and are not getting consistent performances.
37
14/12/2020 12:31:02 56 2
bbc
Swear to god Wales get Australia and Fiji at literally every single World Cup
61
14/12/2020 12:35:02 14 22
bbc
Yeah, makes you wonder how random the draw really is
141
14/12/2020 13:01:58 5 2
bbc
It's because it's random that things like this can happen!
307
14/12/2020 14:32:01 2 3
bbc
Would you rather Wales had SA or NZ/France?

Wales have had several easy rides now - Aus are by far the easiest of the previous winners to play...
982
15/12/2020 14:01:15 0 1
bbc
That's bollocks. Eng often get a tough group... 2015....but they don't moan.
62
14/12/2020 12:35:40 25 5
bbc
I'm English.

Clearly we got the best draw and that's pleasing.

Wales will beat Fiji and so I just wouldn't be concerned if I were Welsh.

I wouldn't fancy being Scotland; it's not looking good for them.
82
14/12/2020 12:40:47 15 1
bbc
True - we rarely do well against Ireland
193
14/12/2020 13:25:17 0 1
bbc
They can blame a bad performance in the knock out stages due to being 'undercooked' in the pool stage.
6
14/12/2020 12:25:16 10 15
bbc
I know it’s done by rankings, but England’s pool is a joke.
63
14/12/2020 12:35:46 1 5
bbc
It always is...the hand of Billy Beumont!
51
14/12/2020 12:32:51 12 13
bbc
Assuming England win their group! Usual arrogance! :)
64
14/12/2020 12:35:58 4 3
bbc
Haha ok fair enough. Guess I kind of deserved that. To be fair though, I had assumed that Eng would come up with a plan other than KICK IT DOWN THE MIDDLE by 2023, otherwise it''ll be Wales vs Japan or Argentina!
121
14/12/2020 12:53:44 4 3
bbc
You did deserve it, but at least you are man enough to fess up to it! Under Eddie, I fear you are trapped: I reckon Marcus Smith at Quins should be your lynchpin. But I fear Eddie won't pick him...
164
14/12/2020 13:14:59 0 1
bbc
You would hope so! I am sure Eddie has a cunning plan already!
65
-_-
14/12/2020 12:35:59 4 1
bbc
My early prediction is top 2 seeds from each group to go through with exception of pool D where I think England and Argentina will go through.
44
14/12/2020 12:31:38 14 8
bbc
"Group of death" is probably South Africa, Ireland and Scotland. Although if Japan are as good as last world cup and Argentina improve back towards their 2015 standard England's group will rival, if not exceed it.
66
jmw
14/12/2020 12:36:02 22 2
bbc
Argentina have already ‘improved’ back to that level, played 4 this year, one win and one loss against the All Blacks, two draws against Australia.
67
14/12/2020 12:36:08 2 2
bbc
Wales always get Australia and Fiji; it can't be a draw with balls out of a hat for this to keep happening.
68
14/12/2020 12:36:24 8 1
bbc
Please remember that this is 2023. Right now I would agree I am pleased with Pool D and think Pool B and C are harder. But we are not playing tomorrow and recently France, Argentina, Ireland have all been playing well and Wales went in as top seeds. We can argue about the ease/ hardness of the pools in a few years!
380
14/12/2020 15:42:17 0 1
bbc
Well I'd agree with that apart from the bit about Ireland (coming from an Irishman). Plus the group we are in will be a horrible one once completed.
1
14/12/2020 12:22:54 38 9
bbc
As a Welshman, I'm happy with that. Should manage top two, even with our atrocious current form! Three years to sort ourselves out, so surely we can't get any worse?
69
14/12/2020 12:36:37 1 1
bbc
Agreed. And likely to be Georgia and (if the same qualifier as the last WC I think either Canada or Uruguay) which isn't too bad
70
14/12/2020 12:37:10 30 3
bbc
Ooft - The draw has not been kind to Scotland and with Samoa likely to be the group there is only 1 "easy" game
84
jmw
14/12/2020 12:41:03 18 2
bbc
Nope, don’t think the draw has been kind to any of the teams in that group, including South Africa. Still, provided there are no serious injuries whoever comes out of that group should be properly ‘battle hardened’ for the knock-out rounds.
833
15/12/2020 07:47:30 1 0
bbc
At least Samoa have two easy games...
71
14/12/2020 12:37:39 103 3
bbc
It's completely absurd that the draw is being conducted nearly 3 years before the actual competition. Serves no real purpose and ensures that for the next few years the importance of the rankings, and thus the summer and autumn internationals, is reduced.
139
14/12/2020 13:01:07 23 2
bbc
It also puts a sense of pressure for the next 3 years on games between countries in the same group. That pressure is not necessary or welcome.
334
14/12/2020 14:51:02 3 1
bbc
Effectively more than three years since they are using the January rankings.
15/12/2020 14:54:13 0 0
bbc
They've done it to try and increase sales and revenue. Everyone can plan ahead for venues etc and also launch ticket sales before the Olympics. Source is Claude Atcher.
72
14/12/2020 12:37:48 9 5
bbc
Predicted on earlier HYS that Wales would get Aus and Fiji
That is 4 of the last 5 world cups with Aus and Fiji, Aus 5 in a row.
Does not matter about rankings.
Bit boring always getting same match ups
Don't want to sound like Trump, but RIGGED DRAW
102
14/12/2020 12:47:17 0 2
bbc
MAGA....Making Australia Great Again.
484
14/12/2020 17:23:23 0 1
bbc
We should start some lawsuits to overturn the draw. We've got 3.5 years, that's surely enough time to get a few dozen going.
486
14/12/2020 17:26:18 0 1
bbc
3.5 years til the games start, should be enough time for a few lawsuits.
8
14/12/2020 12:25:44 11 13
bbc
could be an early ticket home for the welsh.... Great for England
73
14/12/2020 12:37:59 2 3
bbc
Take it you didn't see Argentina, with a weeks preparation beat NZ a couple of weeks ago
74
14/12/2020 12:38:24 0 1
bbc
Japan and Argentina, nice! I don't think we can have any complaints with our group. Poor Scotland LOL. Wales will also struggle against an emerging Aussie side and Fiji who love to stick it to them.
94
jmw
14/12/2020 12:43:41 1 1
bbc
Sorry, would that be the Argentina who have just won 1 lost 1 against the All Blacks and drawn 2 against Australia? Or the Japan side that made the last RWC quarter finals?
75
14/12/2020 12:38:51 0 1
bbc
????.
76
14/12/2020 12:39:12 1 7
bbc
I can see this leading to an Italy Wales final two magnificent rugby teams
59
14/12/2020 12:34:51 246 7
bbc
What other global comp makes its draw based on seedlings 999 days before tournament. Absolutely ridiculous!
77
14/12/2020 12:39:46 165 4
bbc
Like my spelling of “seedings”. Thanks iPad.
177
14/12/2020 13:17:56 16 1
bbc
They have plenty of time to grow!
216
14/12/2020 13:40:41 6 1
bbc
No you are right it is so early they are still seedlings... I’m sorry I will get my coat.
510
You
14/12/2020 17:57:16 3 1
bbc
Treemendous spelling.
78
14/12/2020 12:40:19 5 2
bbc
Poor Italy, they always seem to get an awful draw!

From a Wales perspective I would have happily taken a harder group just for some variety. So boring playing the same teams every world cup - that's 4 groups in a row with Fiji and 3 with Australia.

Who knows what form teams will be in come 2023...
92
14/12/2020 12:43:29 2 1
bbc
My bad, 5 in a row with Fiji!
280
14/12/2020 14:13:32 0 1
bbc
Chance for revenge for last world cup. Italy missed out on chance to get out of group when New Zealand v Italy was cancelled.

Can't see them winning the game but little extra zest to it.
79
14/12/2020 12:40:22 0 2
bbc
On paper England have good draw we'll see as we get closer Argentina and Japan, though we would expect to win are not the easy games they may have been, that said overall pleased.
80
14/12/2020 12:40:41 4 4
bbc
So probably Scotland out in the group stages again, and a decent chance of Wales also.
93
14/12/2020 12:43:29 3 1
bbc
Won’t be at our home tournament though, that’s what embarrassing looks like!
81
14/12/2020 12:40:47 3 1
bbc
In RWC19, Pool A played Pool B and Pool C played Pool D in the quarters. Which means that Ire/ Scot need to win their group and then play poss France. In short, no semi final for either team.
108
Ral
14/12/2020 12:48:14 1 1
bbc
I assumed it would be QF as in last world cup eg A1vsB2, A2vsB1, C1vsD2 and D1vsC2 but cant see that confirmed anywhere. Would of thought for sporting credibility that it would have been made plain beforehand.
62
14/12/2020 12:35:40 25 5
bbc
I'm English.

Clearly we got the best draw and that's pleasing.

Wales will beat Fiji and so I just wouldn't be concerned if I were Welsh.

I wouldn't fancy being Scotland; it's not looking good for them.
82
14/12/2020 12:40:47 15 1
bbc
True - we rarely do well against Ireland
642
14/12/2020 19:47:47 1 1
bbc
Clearly longer memory than you pal. In 1960s-90s Scotland usually beat Ireland. Just more recent years we have been underdogs.
60
14/12/2020 12:34:52 4 3
bbc
Crikey pool B is tough!!
Wales, Australia & Fiji is quite tasty too.
England looks the easier route but you never know.
Really exciting groups, long time to go but France must be excited with their crop of youngsters coming through.
83
14/12/2020 12:40:54 3 1
bbc
Wales should beat Fiji comfortably. Australia at present are mediocre and are not getting consistent performances.
135
14/12/2020 12:59:37 3 1
bbc
Really? Fiji looked really good in their one game in Autumn Cup and will only get stronger. Aus ALWAYS raise their game in RWC.
As an aside, if any England fan had the audacity to say "Eng should beat X comfortably" then the howls of claims of arrogance would be deafening.
274
14/12/2020 14:11:24 1 1
bbc
aus aren't that bad, they've ave beaten all blacks this season. we haven't done that for 50 plus years.
70
14/12/2020 12:37:10 30 3
bbc
Ooft - The draw has not been kind to Scotland and with Samoa likely to be the group there is only 1 "easy" game
84
jmw
14/12/2020 12:41:03 18 2
bbc
Nope, don’t think the draw has been kind to any of the teams in that group, including South Africa. Still, provided there are no serious injuries whoever comes out of that group should be properly ‘battle hardened’ for the knock-out rounds.
85
14/12/2020 12:41:04 21 3
bbc
Who’s pulling these out of the hat Bugs bunny ? Wales , Australia & Fiji again giv us a break .
31
14/12/2020 12:30:12 8 5
bbc
I don’t think NZ will be happy to play hosts France who are having a massive resurgence. You have to say that the top 4 will be NZ, France, SA and England in no particular order.
86
14/12/2020 12:41:34 5 3
bbc
NZ, France & SA cannot all make last 4.
343
14/12/2020 14:56:40 4 1
bbc
Don't know why you've been downvoted, assuming all 3 get out of their pools SA will be facing either France of NZ in the 1/4s
59
14/12/2020 12:34:51 246 7
bbc
What other global comp makes its draw based on seedlings 999 days before tournament. Absolutely ridiculous!
87
14/12/2020 12:41:35 8 1
bbc
Very good point, it is ludicrous!
54
14/12/2020 12:33:55 1 5
bbc
Hardly! Their usual pass to the semi-finals ...and won't play all their pool games because of a tsunami!
88
14/12/2020 12:42:20 1 1
bbc
Mistral this time... ;)
89
14/12/2020 12:42:31 5 3
bbc
That’s amazing - South Africa have been drawn in the same group 3 times lol
90
14/12/2020 12:43:09 6 1
bbc
It's 3 years off lots can change. For example look how Wales have gone backwards alarmingly in 12 months. There's nothing to say they or anyone else's form won't change dramatically in 30 off months time.
48
14/12/2020 12:32:30 1 2
bbc
Only this time Wales have got them as the top seed. They should be fancying their chances against anyone they could possibly have drawn.
91
14/12/2020 12:43:23 0 1
bbc
Why do Wales have such influence that they got the seeding date back to before they started their run of defeats. The draw should have been postponed till Spring 2023, or December 2022 using rankings at these dates
78
14/12/2020 12:40:19 5 2
bbc
Poor Italy, they always seem to get an awful draw!

From a Wales perspective I would have happily taken a harder group just for some variety. So boring playing the same teams every world cup - that's 4 groups in a row with Fiji and 3 with Australia.

Who knows what form teams will be in come 2023...
92
14/12/2020 12:43:29 2 1
bbc
My bad, 5 in a row with Fiji!
80
14/12/2020 12:40:41 4 4
bbc
So probably Scotland out in the group stages again, and a decent chance of Wales also.
93
14/12/2020 12:43:29 3 1
bbc
Won’t be at our home tournament though, that’s what embarrassing looks like!
100
14/12/2020 12:45:37 2 2
bbc
Wales were the first team to fail to get out of their group at their own tournament, look it up.
110
14/12/2020 12:48:51 0 2
bbc
Grasping.
74
14/12/2020 12:38:24 0 1
bbc
Japan and Argentina, nice! I don't think we can have any complaints with our group. Poor Scotland LOL. Wales will also struggle against an emerging Aussie side and Fiji who love to stick it to them.
94
jmw
14/12/2020 12:43:41 1 1
bbc
Sorry, would that be the Argentina who have just won 1 lost 1 against the All Blacks and drawn 2 against Australia? Or the Japan side that made the last RWC quarter finals?
22
14/12/2020 12:28:45 7 11
bbc
Already comments about England's pool being too easy. Clearly nobody watched Argentina in the Tri Nations, or Japan in the last 8 years. Wales and South Africa have easier groups.
95
14/12/2020 12:43:53 2 1
bbc
SA have an easier group - seriously!
Japan not playing at home next go around so will depend on development but I'd rather Japan & Argentina to Ireland & Scotland.

If Fiji could play together more then they would be a hell of a team as they are unbelievable going forward, defensively and up front need improvement but most of that is attitude - imagine Gatland & Edwards coaching Fiji - frightening
23
14/12/2020 12:28:47 8 2
bbc
If this was played today, I could see Wales missing out

What a pool B

Can’t wait
96
14/12/2020 12:43:55 5 17
bbc
If this was played today Wales should beat Fiji comfortably
224
14/12/2020 13:44:04 2 2
bbc
They really wouldn’t

Wales are terrible right now
97
14/12/2020 12:44:00 6 7
bbc
Is anyone shocked?

Japan get the money draw against England as planned.

Scotland get shafted by the unnecessary early rankings and will struggle to get out this kind of group.

Then everyone will start taking about how Scotland haven't got out the group in 2 world cups, should they be there...

All about opening up markets and scotland are the sacrificial lambs
107
14/12/2020 12:48:00 9 5
bbc
If Scotland are good enough, they will progress. They will only struggle if they are not good enough. Simple really.
124
14/12/2020 12:54:19 4 1
bbc
You think the Japanese will believe England and Argentina are easy games?

Scotland shafted themselves by failing to beat Japan at the last RWC.

Scotland will struggle to get out of any group that has two other decent teams in it!
210
14/12/2020 13:33:55 3 1
bbc
As a scot, we are where we are because we failed to beat Japan in a key game last year and they thoroughly deserved to win - they also beat the number 1 seed in the group. It will be an exceptionally tough group for Scotland to get out of but is it impossible - no, looking forward to it already.
223
14/12/2020 13:43:31 0 2
bbc
I’m shocked you think Scot have been shafted by anyone other than themselves. Their 3rd level seeding is fully justified by poor performance in RWC 2019.
On current form I think most top seeds would prefer Ire & Scot instead of Japan & Argentina or Australia & Fiji in their group.
They’d all take any group with Italy as 3rd seed.
233
14/12/2020 13:51:02 1 1
bbc
Oh cry me a river.
98
14/12/2020 12:44:16 4 1
bbc
lets hope the so called tier one nations give Japan and Fiji regular fixtures (and in agreed international windows) in the run up to the WC so that both have the best opportunity to be competitive in 2023. Wales and England groups will then be truly tough with no guarantees
9
14/12/2020 12:25:51 109 7
bbc
Also how have Wales ended up in the same group for the 100th time in a row?
99
14/12/2020 12:44:35 29 3
bbc
Given that Georgia are basically nailed on for the Europe 1 spot, I'm getting a real sense of deja vu right now.
165
14/12/2020 13:15:04 4 3
bbc
If you're Welsh must be hoping Georgia don't improve.
182
14/12/2020 13:20:23 0 1
bbc
What are the odds of Uruguay being "Qualifier" too?
349
14/12/2020 15:08:11 0 1
bbc
Yup...same old, same old!
93
14/12/2020 12:43:29 3 1
bbc
Won’t be at our home tournament though, that’s what embarrassing looks like!
100
14/12/2020 12:45:37 2 2
bbc
Wales were the first team to fail to get out of their group at their own tournament, look it up.
116
14/12/2020 12:51:13 3 1
bbc
I’m Scottish. Anyway it’s years away. You never know the Irish may keep Farrell and we have a chance!