Brexit: PM and EU say trade deal unlikely by Sunday
11/12/2020
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politics
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Boris Johnson urges Brussels to make a "big change" as the deadline set by the two sides approaches.
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Roger
11/12/2020 10:27:31
97
82
bbc
Time up on Sunday, they have had there chances. Time to stop this and move on
Get this man a chlorinated chicken stat
Yes, unfortunately for the UK, Boris' bluff didn't work.
Man up! Doom slayer
Oh dear.
'Brexit: Malcolm Turnbull tells UK 'be careful what you wish for' over EU trade'
'Brexit: Malcolm Turnbull tells UK 'be careful what you wish for' over EU trade'
As a European living in the UK, I already plan my return to my home country - I don't see a happy ending for Britain.
Especially the company I work for, what works internationally will make some tough decisions next year. HQ is already unofficially split between England and Germany - they might movie the company from the London exchange to the NY or German one.
Especially the company I work for, what works internationally will make some tough decisions next year. HQ is already unofficially split between England and Germany - they might movie the company from the London exchange to the NY or German one.
we don't need luck we need determination and commitment from us all.. try giving it some instead of 'rolling over in surrender' and whinging
Yes we will need it, starting with me and then you
Not luck just people ALL PEOPLE to show what we are made of, that is apart from those amongst us who would sooner have a miserable existence rather than accept leave was right for Britain- shameful
Vladimir Putin must be so pleased at what is unfolding in the UK, at the moment.
It doesn't make any difference to Putin, NATO is intact and will remain so!
... yes, he'll be looking forward to tying up alongside Angela and the ECCP ...
Along with Xi, Kim, etc., etc. In fact all world leaders.
Except Donald, of course. He can't see further than the end of Melania's lead.
Except Donald, of course. He can't see further than the end of Melania's lead.
He'll be taking over large swathes of Europe soon, With or Without us in NATO.
It's on the cards and has been for a good while
It's on the cards and has been for a good while
Not necessarily. Current events in the UK are the result of a democratic vote. Putin hates democracy.
UK should ask Vladimir for a Free Trade Deal. He won't say no, would he?
What do you mean the UK would have to accept Vladimir's requests for Free Money Laundering in the UK?
Certainly not.
But he already does it... so not so easy to get a FTA with him either.
Uhmm...
What do you mean the UK would have to accept Vladimir's requests for Free Money Laundering in the UK?
Certainly not.
But he already does it... so not so easy to get a FTA with him either.
Uhmm...
Nah, he's too busy getting Nordstream 2 up and running.
The Tories are funded by Kremlin oligarchs - this isn't even an allegation, its a recorded register of interests fact.
God alone know what dark money is flooding around but even the money we know about is Russian.
Putin is getting what he paid for, here and in the US. Utter chaos.
God alone know what dark money is flooding around but even the money we know about is Russian.
Putin is getting what he paid for, here and in the US. Utter chaos.
Not as pleased as when Trump got elected.
Why? Are you a conspiracy theorist? What evidence do you have that Russia is behind Brexit?
Cummings and Farage were sent to infiltrate UK politics, launder Russian bent money through the Leave campaign and send us into a 20 year recession.
Putins work. Not so far fetched now ...
Putins work. Not so far fetched now ...
ah, put your tin foil hat on, they really are out to get you.
The reverse I suspect.
Without the comfort of UK forces under the feeble Captain Mainwaring management of the EU, the EU will be forced to pay attention to their own military efforts which apart from France have been pathetic to date - see EU involvement in Bosnian war as an example.
A strong EU military and an independent UK will be more of a buffer should Putin decide to antagonise the West.
Without the comfort of UK forces under the feeble Captain Mainwaring management of the EU, the EU will be forced to pay attention to their own military efforts which apart from France have been pathetic to date - see EU involvement in Bosnian war as an example.
A strong EU military and an independent UK will be more of a buffer should Putin decide to antagonise the West.
And don't forget Emporer Xi Jinping, between them preparing to carve up the world with both USA and UK on suicide missions
It's extraordinary!
Look at the head chef. No further comment needed.
When everyone can see that he cannot operate the oven, let alone run a « country »!
The "oven ready deal" referred to the withdrawal agreement not the the trade deal. Even the BBC fact checker was forced to concede that point and the BBC have a reputation for being anti Brexit.
Oven ready anything is garbage, push yourself and start from scratch, you'll get the hang of it when the shackles are off
Simple Bob they want to govern us tell us what we can and cannot do and steal our fish or can you not read.
The oven ready deal was the withdrawal agreement which was signed off within a month of Boris being elected. On that he has delivered. The free trade agreement was always going to be harder because the EU have no intentions to negotiate a fair deal.
It got sidelined by the "world beating" track and trace system.
Yawn. The 'oven ready ' phrase , quoted million of times by Remainers, referred to only to the Withdrawal Agreement, which has been implemented.
It’s a famous dessert called “Eton Mess”.
I'll let you into a secret, but don't tell anyone. He lied just to get elected.
Alas there was an oven-ready deal but Boris is more of a microwave man
Oh no, not another one that's trying to rewrite history by saying that the oven ready term applied to anything other than the withdrawal agreement.
Because Boris lied to the British people.
Lying is what he does.
Lying is what he does.
The oven ready deal was completed in December in Parluament. How many times doyou have to to be told?
THE TORIES !
Easy, you get the EU involved, as Fox pointed out the EU couldn't even manage the easiest trade deal in history, their politics would get in the way.
Quite simple - it wasn't created by the EU so they rejected it regardless of its merits. Except in this case, if it is the Canada deal that was oven ready, the EU did create it. Oops
Because the EU have changed their demands at the last minute. I suppose you see that as Boris's fault? Or would you just like him to agree to a poor deal for the UK like labour would have done?
Hopefully there will be no deal with the EU, who on earth wants to be connected to the EU.
Hundreds of millions of people in the UK and across Europe, that's who.
This comment sums it up. Leavers cannot count let alone make an informed decision. Illiterate!
I’m a firm rejoiner so I’ve naturally got the UK’s and the EU’s best interests at heart…
but…
I think the only way we, as a nation, are going to cure ourselves of the populist right-wing infection that grips our country is to go through the pain of no deal. Perhaps then we will recognise the folly of Brexit and elect pro-EU MPs at the next election and rejoin the EU and rebuild the UK.
but…
I think the only way we, as a nation, are going to cure ourselves of the populist right-wing infection that grips our country is to go through the pain of no deal. Perhaps then we will recognise the folly of Brexit and elect pro-EU MPs at the next election and rejoin the EU and rebuild the UK.
Perhaps. But I'm a lot less optimistic on that one unfortunately.
... while we're getting on with life, you may wish to move to your utopia on mainland Europe ...
There would be riots on the street before we re-entered the EU. It will never happen. The other thing is, there won't be an EU in 5-10 years probably.
Parliament was always pro EU . The majority of voters in the referendum want to leave .
So wont change the MPs because most New Tory MP's were steadfastly remain and kept telling people that. Quite a few are no longer MPs but apparently it was nothing to do with it all it was all that horrible Corbyn's fault.
I wonder what excuse the Liberal Non Democrats are using.
Globilisation zealot Phony Tony Tory Blair et al are very quiet at the moment now he has got MK2 elected as leader
I wonder what excuse the Liberal Non Democrats are using.
Globilisation zealot Phony Tony Tory Blair et al are very quiet at the moment now he has got MK2 elected as leader
Or more likely you ditch your fantasy of the 'right wing' infection.
Onwards to a poorer and less relevant future, just like you were promised during the referendum
Nice weather in St Pete's?
Damn! No more Strawberries in winter, I'll have to wait until the middle of summer from now on hahahahahaha
Oh well, that's the seasonality of living in this country and they'll taste even sweeter being our own!
Oh well, that's the seasonality of living in this country and they'll taste even sweeter being our own!
Rejoiners daren't move on, it would mean they'd just wasted years of their lives.
They'll be no more Von Der Lying (through her teeth) or Michel Barnier ever again, Amen to that!
How can you judge something as a failure before it has happened yet?
Only a failure depending on your perspective. Boris is PM: as far as he's concerned that's a win. The cabinet and its mates are getting richer: another win. Plebs like us getting poorer? Well, too bad.
As opposed to caving-in and signing-up to a poor arrangement just so that you don't have to be bothered with the subject anymore?
No different to Starmer and his 'just get a deal done' but offers no indication of how or what that 'deal' should look like... now that is a national embarrassment!
No different to Starmer and his 'just get a deal done' but offers no indication of how or what that 'deal' should look like... now that is a national embarrassment!
And what would you do - Surrender and agree to any rubbish deal?
Nobody has failed yet.
Yes it is, by 27 nations
For the EU you mean!
Nonsense. Leaving the EU is a huge success. Deal or no deal.
Cobblers, it's not a failure to say no to a 'deal' that stinks of EU and French mendacity.
Suez cubed. Suck it up.
Get on the next boat to europe and do one
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I bet all those brexiters who voted on the back of an immigration poster losely resembling those Asians who have been part of our British Socierty for more than 50 years are really confused by all this no-deal crisis. Most probably can't comprehend the scale of the problem.
Let me make it easy for you - No-deal = paying more for your pint at your new year get together with fellow Gammons.
Let me make it easy for you - No-deal = paying more for your pint at your new year get together with fellow Gammons.
Not at all its a breath of fresh air for UK to stand its ground
Quite the opposite actually.
Our PM is standing up for the people who voted for him (and all those who didn't if only they'd admit it), against a bureaucracy driven EU who's obsession with keeping alive a failed project obscures common sense.
Our PM is standing up for the people who voted for him (and all those who didn't if only they'd admit it), against a bureaucracy driven EU who's obsession with keeping alive a failed project obscures common sense.
THE failure is the EU .Leave the UK and go and live in the EU
Bozo called it himself, he's a failure.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49608822
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49608822
Yep, I agree, Sir kneel/Cpt hindsight and his party are a national disgrace.
If it's a failure then it's an EU failure as well. Leaving no deal is seen as a success by many.
Yes. The failure to accept a deal that lets France keep 80% of the value of fish landed from UK waters while The UK itself keeps 9%. A failure to accept a deal that the other side has exclusive rights to change.
All these quitter comments basically amounting to 'no but you though' neatly summing up the gammon attitude and capability to pursue coherent arguments.
sadly yes you are, time to stand up Dan. exciting new times out there for you.
Do you really think they wont pull something out of the bag at the last minute?
Re: ‘What an embarrassing national failure’.
Do you mean the way the Government has handled Coronavirus!
Do you mean the way the Government has handled Coronavirus!
Its just the sham 'Cool Britannia' nation that has failed. The real nation isn't what Tony Blair lied to you that it was in the 1990s. And the real nation doesn't count this as anything but a total success.
The EU, so we are told by rejoiners is a supra-national body, unless you know different.
Well who would have thought!!
The gross incompetence and corruption of the Tories will mean as per the Japan trade deal (see the small text) that the future trade deals with other countries will cause the Brexiteers final salary pension to be severely impacted.
The Brexiteers never thought - they were sitting pretty so did not care what happened. When the Tories sell them out too, then they will rue the day they were selfish
The Brexiteers never thought - they were sitting pretty so did not care what happened. When the Tories sell them out too, then they will rue the day they were selfish
Nobody who makes such an ignorant comment thinks about anything.
A recipe for post-Brexit British fare - dogfish and turnips.
Grab an enormous chopper. Brandish it threateningly, then hack randomly in the direction of the turnips.
Throw dogfish and chopped turnips in a pan and cover with water. bring to boil whilst muttering about sovereignty.
Cook until an unappealing grey mess.
Invite 17M people to dinner and tell them it's exactly what they ordered.
Grab an enormous chopper. Brandish it threateningly, then hack randomly in the direction of the turnips.
Throw dogfish and chopped turnips in a pan and cover with water. bring to boil whilst muttering about sovereignty.
Cook until an unappealing grey mess.
Invite 17M people to dinner and tell them it's exactly what they ordered.
EU trawlers catch Cod (among other fish), so Cod back on the UK menu, but off the EU's. ;-)
Wby eat Dogfish when you can go out and catch what'll no longer be finding itself on French and Spanish tables?
Think I'll have a Lobster surrounded by langoustine to celebrate
Think I'll have a Lobster surrounded by langoustine to celebrate
Do rejoiners ever post anything other than their dystopian fantasies or the partial truth so as to lie by omission?
Boris Johnson fails to achieve the only reason he was elected.
He was elected by vast swathes of Labour voters to implement Brexit which he is doing.
So is the EU genuinely going to throw away an FTA to its largest export market simply on fear that the UK might have slightly different regulations at some vague point in the future?
This not only suggests the extent of the EU’s paranoia and insecurity, but not sure they’re thinking straight.
This not only suggests the extent of the EU’s paranoia and insecurity, but not sure they’re thinking straight.
We may not know how many kids Johnson has, but we're all starting to get an idea of what it must've been like when he ran out on their mothers. "Look, I wanted a good relationship with you, but your mum insisted I make all sorts of commitments. She said that you'll be going to school soon, and I'd have to get involved in the PTA, and no proud Etonian could ever tolerate that, so I'm orrf."
Removed
Yup and that will cost the Conservative party when they next dare to call a General Election!!
Even with a FPTP system that is by far better than the Euro electoral system of proportional representation.
Even with a FPTP system that is by far better than the Euro electoral system of proportional representation.
You do know we have already left the cartel, ahem, I mean the EU?
NO he achieved it, he has got us out of the EU
Actually Boris has already achieved the reason he was voted. Within a month of being elected the withdrawal agreement was signed off and at the end of this month we will fully leave the EU. It's a shame there is no trade deal but we all knew the EU preferred to punish the UK. At least Boris has the spine to not cave in.
On the contrary. He was elected so that he, as one of the prime instigators of this fiasco, could personally carry the can when (not if) it all went pear shaped.
And he's doing a splendid job of setting himself up to take the blame.
Well done Boris - keep up the good work.
And he's doing a splendid job of setting himself up to take the blame.
Well done Boris - keep up the good work.
you guys dont get it do you.... a hard brexit is what we want, not this soft rubbish that you remoaners have been hoping for. And Boris will deliver just that.... exactly what the people voted for.
the EU fails to accept we are leaving. And will try everything in their power to stop other countries wanting to leave. I believe no PM would get a deal worth taking.
He was elected because racists thought he was 'our kind of man'
So what did you elect him to do? I elected him to get Brexit done, admittedly it's about the only thing he is getting done, but that will do for now.
It isn't over until it's over.
Wrong. He said he would get Brexit done. That is what he is doing. Get your facts straight.
31/12/20
No Deal Brexit - Brexit done as promised.
??????
No Deal Brexit - Brexit done as promised.
??????
Wait and see! We will be out of this mess with the EU on Sunday.
Racist comment.
so Tony, you are young, ageist and racist? Grow up.
nothing like a good old generalisation to further the debate...
Or Russian.
does this you are younger than Roger and disrespect other opinions
I love the abuse that is being given to this comment, but at no point does anyone actually prove that your statement is incorrect.
It might be a generalization, but it is statistically supported by Brexit opinion demographics and probability.
It might be a generalization, but it is statistically supported by Brexit opinion demographics and probability.
Wrong , an old person wouldn’t write “ there” chances .
... and perhaps gets his news from the Telegraph or the Mail, and hasn't got a degree.
And rather ill-educated to judge by his grammar and spelling. Yes, I think it is relevant to mention that fact because he has chosen to publish his views and we are entitled to consider his credentials before we consider his views.
And can not spell.
Nah, the loyal yet deluded follower is stocking up on toilet rolls and baking powder to top up on all the stuff he is hoarding in his shed.
He has no idea - there never was an oven ready or any other deal on the table!! Doh!
He has no idea - there never was an oven ready or any other deal on the table!! Doh!
Yup Roger, probability is all 3. But not all. Many of us north of the border especially are of the opposite view and will remain so. For our, our children etc. Leavers want to protect their own interests above all. Surprise surprise, the EU likewise. How dare they? Soon we'll be having chaos and I won't say told you so. Just oh well an independent Scotland is now inevitable. Whatever Boris says
Better him to be old, white and retired than a snowflake Tony, eh what no deal here we come!
Let me guess, Tony, you are bigoted and prejudiced.
Is there a problem with being old, retired even, or heaven forbid, white?
Being old white and retired is not allowed an opinion?. I am all of those but voted to stay in for both referendums on the EU. You comment is uncalled for.
What’s with all the nastiness and insults? This isn’t how civilised people argue.
Not a leave voter then. Yesterday the rejoiners were blaming the lazy workers for not being able to compete in Europe - of course it might just be that rejoiners make it up as they go along ;-)
Having worked for 10 years in an EU quango, they are likely to leave this to the last minute. The biggest mistake has been to have 4 years of negotiation - 3 months was always more than enough.
... you're absolutely right. Enjoy Xmas feet up; expect serious stuff in the week before New Year ...
Absolutely, this should all have been done and dusted by Christmas 2016.
It’s abundantly clear that the vehemence with which opinions about “ failure” on this forum, is fuelled by a complete absence of experience in negotiating with Government officials. Securing a deal with the U.K. is a priority. If it wasn’t, why would so much effort be expended by the EU a over the last 2 months?
You are not telling the truth, working and quango.
Oh do tell oh master of the knowledge... why would any trade group waste time... all this time...
That would have made sense had the Con's, who brought about the vote, actually thought about what they would do in there was a no vote.
They will now try to push the blame on the EU (why change this habit even after we leave) and the other parties. Clearly it was an act of self indulgence on the part of the Con's, despicable!
They will now try to push the blame on the EU (why change this habit even after we leave) and the other parties. Clearly it was an act of self indulgence on the part of the Con's, despicable!
Mmmm you mean 4 years of people refusing to accept a ref vote then an election and still refuse to believe other people are entitled to a different viewpoint that's what's bad woke destroys all
Which EU quango exactly as I have become very suspicious of people who bash the EU constantly. Is this true?
Dream on Poindexter.
I really hope you are right. This is beyond a joke. Playing with people’s livelihoods isn’t funny.
Oh well. Potatoes and swede for tea next month. Little Britain rules the waves.
No veg or fruit as there are no eastern europeans to harvest them.
and breakfast .
No doubts you'll thrive on em and be far healthier for it, difficult decision, finally supporting our own farmers at long last.
Eat less meat. You’ll do your health a world of good, & help save the planet. So don’t complain.
You know just what is between the ears of people who can belittle our country like this...methinks very little.
Removed
Better diet in potatoes and swede than in fast food UK diet. Bring it on.
Don't worry, pate-de-foie-gras & Champagne will probably still arrive, you'll just have to dip more into Daddy's tust fund to afford it and might need to dispense with your Eastern European servants.
If you don't like Britain, leave.
This no deal scenario must be eating into your remoaner brain!
Also lots of fish that we can export if choose to do so!!!!
@NOSIDA "Oh well. Potatoes and swede for tea next month. Little Britain rules the waves."
I think you mean "Little Britain waives the rules" ;)
I think you mean "Little Britain waives the rules" ;)
And for that reason, Scotland is out of the UK but still in the EU. Or will england deny a democratic vote?
FAr better than giving into Von der Leyden and her German mafia. We do not need German cars or France and Belgium fishing in our waters ever agsin
Make that potatoes and potatoes - swedes not welcome here, apparently.
Add to that the Cheese, Lamb, Beef, Fruit Fish and loads of other foods we produce. A much lower carbon footprint and supporting our Farmers. Get out of the rut you're in and start looking at the positives
And lovely English cheeses, and Welsh lamb, and Scottish beef and vegetables and eggs from my local farmer, and locally produced ham...
Prove it then, lets see you eat potatoes and swede for a month.. or are you just being a petulant crying remainer who can't accept democracy?
Some interesting contributions from everybody. Some do not seem to get humour though. Others forget, or have never known, the days when you mostly ate what was grown in the UK and how rubbish many cars were!
Why stop at the return of eating seasonal vegetables? Why not bring back black and white television sets with only three channels, or the three date week and powercuts, to truly recreate those halcyon days of when we were last a 'sovereign' nation.
get a cookbook and see what you can do instead of moaning and being defeatist.. take a leaf of of JFK's statement in the 1960s' to the people of the USA
It's nothing to do with little Britain but global Brtian and little EU Leavers to trade with everyone haven't you read the text
Oven ready deal appears to have been hidden away in the freezer with Boris Johnson. Shame we can not hide him away too.
You could catch a Eurostar to Paris and claim asylum in the asylum. Bon voyage if you decide to do so, but something tells me you'll still be Isabella of the UK not Spain or France, next year.
Someone tell me again the benefits of BREXIT??
Sovereignty also you get what you vote for, dummy, it was never about what sort of deal we got, or next Thursday's dinner menu.
Removed
Here they are again for you:
... not having someone else tell us what we can and can't do. Being able to elect our own government, for all the weaknesses which apply to our form of democracy.
That should sort you out. If you have further doubts go and catch up on some history. If you're really serious, start with mon Generale in WW2 ...
That should sort you out. If you have further doubts go and catch up on some history. If you're really serious, start with mon Generale in WW2 ...
We no longer have to endure European corruption, and can replace it with our world beating British made corruption instead.
Not being in the corrupt, increasingly Federalist EU for starters. Us having 100% control of our own laws, standards, finances/financial policy, immigration policy, foreign policy etc etc. The EU is busting at the seams and will implode in time. They are scared to death we will act as a catalyst for that & want to stop us being successful at all costs.
A blue passport (that we could've had all along) which now gets you access to a slower queue at the airport.
Less opportunities to work in one of the biggest trading blocks in the world.
No opportunity for our fishermen to continue fishing in French waters.
Higher taxes on our exports, putting us at a distinct disadvantage (fish too).
Higher prices for our food (25% or more imported!)
Less opportunities to work in one of the biggest trading blocks in the world.
No opportunity for our fishermen to continue fishing in French waters.
Higher taxes on our exports, putting us at a distinct disadvantage (fish too).
Higher prices for our food (25% or more imported!)
They can't. The only reason they like it is so they can spit in the eyes of people telling them it's a bad idea.
Sovereignty.
Oh we know people like you do t care about that. But we/I do. And we prevailed. That’s democracy ??
Oh we know people like you do t care about that. But we/I do. And we prevailed. That’s democracy ??
Tim tams and Soya (sic) sauce imports apparently.
I have a benefit, Leavers to be happy for once in their life and shut up from next year?
That's the point, there are none that are known in advance. Sovereignty is a misnomer - no country (North Korea or Bhutan aside) in the world is able to make laws with no regard to its neighbours or its partners - that's just not the world we live in. And Britain will need to accept that it is now no longer a major player on the world scene, with all that this entails.
Let's face it the EU Referendum would have been a mandate for EU Federalisation. The majority said No. Time you accepted it really. That in itself is a huge benefit.
Someone tell me the benefits of an increase in population of 10% in a 10 year period mainly due to EU immigration
Not to have to follow rules that are set up primarily for the benefit of France and Germany
The EU has actually harmed other areas of EU/World/Environment in desire to benefit France and Germany
Just look at how bad CAP is, and how polluting Germany actually is
The EU has actually harmed other areas of EU/World/Environment in desire to benefit France and Germany
Just look at how bad CAP is, and how polluting Germany actually is
We get to be a sovereign. You know that unused worthless currency that the UK used to have
No being part of a gang that bullies it's members and the gang leaders (Germany & France) taking the rest of gangs takings.
1. Nothing
2. Zilch
3. Rien
4. Nichts
5. SFA
Get the idea?
2. Zilch
3. Rien
4. Nichts
5. SFA
Get the idea?
It is not even as if, with no deal, the issue will go away. We will have to make a trading agreement with the EU sooner or later. So this whole charade is going to drag on and on.......
I expect Johnson knows this. But he has his debts to pay to the ultra-zealous ERG. Business will suffer, but we know what he thinks about business (unprintable, probably).
I expect Johnson knows this. But he has his debts to pay to the ultra-zealous ERG. Business will suffer, but we know what he thinks about business (unprintable, probably).
He is far more focussed on Scottish Independence and the removal on UK deterrent.
Europe is seriously weakened with the UK leaving, a bad EU-UK relationship will sour the UK relationship in NATO. A colossal win for Russia and Putler's foreign policy. What he could never achieve with outdated weapons he's achieved by giving the Vote leave campaign millions to bankroll Brexit.
Trump and the US right have done enormous damage to NATO in recent years. The swivel eyed Tory Boys who promoted Brexit are also haters of NATO.
Money talks.
Theirs comes from Russian oligarchs.
Money talks.
Theirs comes from Russian oligarchs.
You dont getgoe politics, its notheing to do with weapons of war...
Do not be too sure. Having left the EU, we will now be unable to argue against an EU armed forces, which we always objected to as it would replace NATO. With the US focusing more and more towards China, where does that leave NATO? Where is our security in the future? At least Trump is on the way out, as here did not see the point of the US being a member of NATO, so NATO might last a bit longer
NATO is intact for as long as America is intact. That was coming to a halt with trump the past four years, the next populist egomaniac elected by western democracy will make it so
Sorry to say this, but NATO is irrelevant. When Russia annexed the Crimea, NATO did nothing. Russians now know that the fearsome North Atlantic Treaty Organisation won't do anything to stop them entering any country they choose with superior military force. Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia will be first, the rest are just dominoes waiting to topple. Just hope they stop at Calais!
It's the US that concerns Putin.....Russia could over run NATO easily if the US ever withdraws from it.
indeed Putin will be extremely pleased seeing EU weaker and UK first isolated then splitting up
No it doesn't make any difference to him from a military strategy perspective, but it makes a big difference to his economic strategy.
Seeing that any military strategy is essentially based on furthering an economic strategy anyway, then bypassing NATO and still fracturing a competitive economic bloc is a win.
Seeing that any military strategy is essentially based on furthering an economic strategy anyway, then bypassing NATO and still fracturing a competitive economic bloc is a win.
Oh really, Russia, China and USA are geopolitical/economic rivals to the EU and see it in their interests to destabilize it irrespective of NATO - to believe otherwise is incredibly naive.
Yeah if you don't mind fighting the Russians with knives tied to broom handles in 10 years time.
Vast ammounts of Russian money are hidden here.. Plus breaking up the EU will favour corrupt countries and terrorists alike.. And easier trade with UK for him and his cohorts, less checks..
UK is one of the major contributors to NATO's forces.
A weakened, impoverished UK will contribute much less.
The EU economies will also be weakened (if not by nearly so much), so they too will spend less on defence.
That is why Putin backed Brexit - although he was probably surprised how well his ruse worked.
The British were even more gullible than he thought.
A weakened, impoverished UK will contribute much less.
The EU economies will also be weakened (if not by nearly so much), so they too will spend less on defence.
That is why Putin backed Brexit - although he was probably surprised how well his ruse worked.
The British were even more gullible than he thought.
I’m a firm rejoiner so I’ve naturally got the UK’s and the EU’s best interests at heart…
but…
I think the only way we, as a nation, are going to cure ourselves of the populist right-wing infection that grips our country is to go through the pain of no deal. Perhaps then we will recognise the folly of Brexit and elect pro-EU MPs at the next election and rejoin the EU and rebuild the UK.
but…
I think the only way we, as a nation, are going to cure ourselves of the populist right-wing infection that grips our country is to go through the pain of no deal. Perhaps then we will recognise the folly of Brexit and elect pro-EU MPs at the next election and rejoin the EU and rebuild the UK.
I'm sure it'll be someone else's fault why their food has got so expensive. It'll be the EUs fault why travel will be more awkward and more expensive. etc.
LOL don't worry, the Labour party will always be there for you, oh, damn, no, even they've embraced UK independence!
There's only one side in these negotiations who have demanded control over the other side's fisheries, agriculture, state aid rules, courts, and both domestic and foreign trade for the whole duration. Guess which one? Given how hard the EU have tried to keep the UK shackled to them, it says everything you need to know about the potential success of Brexit.
This!
If only the remoaner MPs had voted for T May's Brino deal .. I bet they're regretting that now ??
It was the ERG that did for May's deal
So, you're keen for your savings to be devalued and your cost of living to increase dramatically in the next 12 months?
It was the ERG and other extremists who knifed her in the back
Mays deal was a withdrawal deal.
Never ceases to amaze me the ignorance of Leavers.
Never ceases to amaze me the ignorance of Leavers.
The EU and rejoiners are, listen to them whinge!
The more I read, the more convinced I am we made the right choice back in 2016. The day after the vote, we all became brexiters, like it or not. However, another day of the BBC HYS echo chamber commences...
I never was and never will be a brexiteer. Please don't speak for me.
Don't lump me with gullible fools who listened to Farage & twice-sacked serial liar Johnson. It's your mess, stop deflecting. Grow up & admit you helped create this mess.
The Conservatives have only one direction to go now and that's to attack everyone (liberals, foreigners, 'elites') lest they be held responsible for the absolute shame of this Brexit fiasco.
From the arrogant and foolish election to the lies which have brought us here.
From the arrogant and foolish election to the lies which have brought us here.
That's a bit unfair. I mean yeah, the referendum was proposed by the Tories, campaigned by the Tories and the result implemented by the Tories. And the withdrawal arrangement was agreed by the Tories to lead to discussions negotiated by Tories and a failure to achieve a deal by the Tories.
But it's definitely not their fault.
But it's definitely not their fault.
I think anyone with any common sense can see that its the EU who are acting like idiots, expecting us to agree to things that no independent country in its right mind would agree to that is the heart of the problems.
You sound like you don't like democracy very much. And that's probably why your poster girl Von Der Leyen is the unelected president of the EU cartel.
Yawn, yawn.
Don't let them. It's clear that they're a mendacious, self-serving bunch of troglodytes... But where was the 'opposition' when it was most needed... Oh yes, under the iron, allotment clodded heel of Jeremy Corbyn... You got what you asked for 'No deal, no problem' Say thanks to an old white man never elected to government... Niggle Fartrage and his allotment clodded fellow traveller... Lucky you.
Well said. People seem to forget that brexit is a tory project financed by tories, managed by tories, argued over by tories, built on tory lies, delayed by tories all so a few elite super rich with money in tax havens can make even more profit from us. And lets not forget, it was allowed easy passage by Labour.
At least after 31st December they cannot blame their failings on anyone else. They are leading the 'soveriegn' nation, they hold the parliament and therefore whatever they decide is their responsibility. Blaming anyone else is just plain lying after this date.
I am attacking Liberal idiots and I am attacking the German leadership which thinks it owns Europe
what colour?
Wacko, capital stuff. Maybe there is a picture of Boris on the front. The text inside saying "allow the holder of this passport to let or want enter the County of Kent. Can imagine that most UK citizens will not be allowed in to Kent. It will become a police state.
What colour does "disappointment" conjure up?
He told us he'd get a great deal ("There is no plan for no deal, because we're going to get a great deal.").
If not disappointment, then what colour does "lies" bring to mind?
How about murderous anger?
He told us he'd get a great deal ("There is no plan for no deal, because we're going to get a great deal.").
If not disappointment, then what colour does "lies" bring to mind?
How about murderous anger?
This reminds me of those moments in video games and movies where the main character accepts the doomsday reality, opens a bottle of whisky and just waits for the carnage that is approaching.
They'd be better keeping the whisky if no deal, and drinking brandy - they'll have a lot of brandy if no deal.
Boris's barely-coherent jabberings remind me more of Al Pacino in Scarface, with a mountain of Colombian marching powder.
Talking about whisky, I used to have this image of cameron in his shepherd's hut going through a litre a day and typing. Like Jack Nicholson, The same repetitious sentence. With him, lays a large portion of the blame. He should have followed the path of disgraced British Raj army officers
European leaders - including France's Emmanuel Macron and Germany's Angela Merkel - have been told the EU is unlikely to get a trade deal with the EU by Sunday's deadline.
Do you mean UK BBC.
Do you mean UK BBC.
Funny that when you say almost every other country handled the pandemic better than the UK government, all the Tory supporters say the geographical and demographic differences between countries make comparisons impossible. But the same people bang on about how the EU is prepared to make deals with Canada or Japan without including fishing or level playing field provisions, so why can't the UK?
The facts and figures state otherwise. If the EU can do deals without fishing included then why not with the UK. It's the EU that want everything, the UK just wants a comparable FTA
No. I say don't use raw numbers, use the right comparisons, mortality per capita, then the US is better than the EU, the hardest lock-down country in the world Peru, 2nd behind Belgium, home of the EU, and UK is behind them & Italy and Spain. Please keep up, a man who thinks democracy is bad should be better informed than us plebs or he won't remain in charge very long ;-)
No deal it is, I'm assuming the "negotiations" have moved on to mitigating issues such as border checks etc where they can.
The Republic of Ireland will be thrilled with the NO DEAL result, as it the ROI will be destitute six months or so.
Its farming communities will be hit the hardest.
Well done Leo V an outstanding result
Its farming communities will be hit the hardest.
Well done Leo V an outstanding result
We have the EU.
You have...?
You have...?
The stupidity of the Daily Mail reading population of the UK has visited very real economic problems on Ireland, and are now crowing about it. Ireland has for centuries had its economy ruined by the English (with a bit of help from the Scots). Now the English have discovered a whole new way to do it. The Brexiteer crowing and triumphalism is disgusting.
If the UK had its eyes open, it can kill off the Irish economy in one fell swoop. End the CTA.
And the IRA will be back. Let's reunite Ireland as it should be, the majority voted to remain as did Scotland. Let them have indolence so they can rejoin the EU and then we can be proper little Englanders
The Irish need to wise up as to who their friends are and Scotland too the EU is a busted flush the gravy train is over for the Irish the world awaits the UK which will be the Tiger economy of the next 20 years it has the intelligence the resources and the will which is exactl what the EU is scared stiff of.
They have just worked that out - genius.
The eu might be a good idea if it wasn't run by the eu.
Why do they all talk like the flower pot men?
The eu might be a good idea if it wasn't run by the eu.
Why do they all talk like the flower pot men?
Most want to be connected to Europe but couldnt give 2 hoots about the EU. anyone with any sense realises what a shambles it is.
maybe they will learn to watch where they are going next time - and what not to step into.
and their lives will be worse for it in many ways.. reap what you sow
Is that the oven-ready Brexit?
It amuses me that my Tory friends would always talk in patronising fashion of the economic illiteracy of the average Labour voter, of how the latter did not understand basic international relations, and pursued stupid fantasies. These presumably are the Labour voters who jumped ship to back Boris.
It amuses me that my Tory friends would always talk in patronising fashion of the economic illiteracy of the average Labour voter, of how the latter did not understand basic international relations, and pursued stupid fantasies. These presumably are the Labour voters who jumped ship to back Boris.
LOL - bet he Lied about the vote.
They voted for him because even they couldn't abide Corbyn. And The Sun told them to.
Incorrect he was elected by brexitard sheep like yourself who we told you were going to have a land of milk and honey, 78 virgins and 350 million quid a week for the NHS
Trouble is you were too stupid to realise it was all lies
Still you got a blue passport, you just can't go anywhere with it Removed
Trouble is you were too stupid to realise it was all lies
Still you got a blue passport, you just can't go anywhere with it Removed
He is not delivering what he promised but a shambles and some of those who will suffer most are in Northern England.
You cannot possibly take this clow seriously anymore? You're like the monty python man who keeps fighting even when his arms and legs are chopped off.
No he isn't. Anyone could drag us out of the EU with no deal. That's dead easy.
The hard bit is delivering on the promises made during the referendum. Remember those? So far, Johnson has failed to deliver a single one.
The hard bit is delivering on the promises made during the referendum. Remember those? So far, Johnson has failed to deliver a single one.
“He was elected by vast swathes of Labour voters to implement Brexit which he is doing.”
—-
No, he got in because there was no credible opposition.
And fear of Corbyn.
—-
No, he got in because there was no credible opposition.
And fear of Corbyn.
He’s also trashing the economy with his COVID failures and now is taking an extra dump on top by delivering no deal. How did this cretin rise to pm?
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vast swathes of what? uninformed, prejudiced Corbynites - No thanks. The entire country has been hoodwinked and brextremists should pay the price... not the rest of us. Pay up and shut up.
Who'd have thought that all the waffle about "easiest deal in history" was erm, waffle? The UK was never prepared to accept that leaving the EU had consequences; , "They need us more than we need them";, "BMW and Mercedes to the rescue" etc etc. The reality boat has docked and we will soon see how mightily we will prosper.
The easiest deal has always been there, its called free trade. The EU didnt want it, so bye bye.
Except had you bee smart enough to read the whole of what Fox said, not just cherry picked, you'd have got to the bit where Fox said 'the only thing that could stop it is EU politics' - so yet again leavers were right ;-)
We will prosper despite naysayers such as you you need to wise up and get with the program yes some doors may close but more doors will open the status quo was never an option but that is what the EU want and they live in a fools paradise not us.
Sad but so true, the UK electorate were misled & lets call it what it was, down right lied to by Boris and co. I dont think think they ever believed the EU would give them the deal or were so deluded actually believed the they need us more line. The other classic mistake was the old British tactic of divide & rule, EU unity has surprised everyone and shows no signs of being united, UK 3 own goals
The reality boat won’t be docking with any German cars on it, thank goodness, the indicators never worked on them anyway. Good to see the German centric eu penalise the emissions cheating though, oh wait no, they didn’t. They just took a small bung in a brown envelope off them and called it all good.
We will indeed prosper mightily, even though the UK is hampered by negative Remainers who do not believe in their own country.
Maybe that boat can't Dock. The major ports are already blocked and diverting boats to help supplies to the EU!
Why are you saying this now? I little bit nieive isnt it? There are 2 weeks left, there will be a deal and everyone will pretend that they are heroes
WE DONT EWant BMEW , WE DONT WANT Mercedes . WE DONT WANTYHING GERNMAN IN THIS COUNTRY > FULL STOP > GOT It AND I DONT WANT ANGE GERMANS IN THJIDS COUNTRY EBVER AGAIN
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They had to give you something to moan about and it looks like you'll be doing it, well, forever.
Meanwhile, the rest of us will move forward with pride in our country and the ability to shape our own destinies.
We won't be takers any longer.
Meanwhile, the rest of us will move forward with pride in our country and the ability to shape our own destinies.
We won't be takers any longer.
Hopefully we will but you must get out of the remainers habit of putting words in their opposition's mouths with the EU nothing is easy so where did you dream that one from neve heard a leaver saying that
Really should have been the easiest deal. If you did not know why, no point explaining it.
Bottom line love or hate the fact the EU have major issues and they are battling to hold a steady ship of 27 and its fraying at the edges. They are making this an impossible deal knowingly. Poland, Italy needed to be shown nobody can leave easily.
Anyone that cannot see these tactics should not be on here.
Bottom line love or hate the fact the EU have major issues and they are battling to hold a steady ship of 27 and its fraying at the edges. They are making this an impossible deal knowingly. Poland, Italy needed to be shown nobody can leave easily.
Anyone that cannot see these tactics should not be on here.
You can't legislate/account for dealing with EU idiots who want to continue to control us. That's the top & bottom of it.
We have something called a General election which determines who rules us. We also wrote some EU law, built the free market, ECJ etc. You could account for the EU by voting in elections - even useless liar Farage was elected. That's the REAL top & bottom of it. You need to do research beyond the front page of the Mail.
You can't legislate/account for dealing with UK idiots who believed we had surrendered sovereignty (we hadn't), who embraced deluded jingoism, and appealed to the very worst sort of nationalistic twaddle. Alas, this situation is entirely of the making of a bunch of rightwing Tories and an ill-informed population who lived off fantasies. This is all the fault of the UK, but everyone will suffer.
time to change that screen name if this is your reasoned opinion
Absolutely spot on they hoped their remainer friends Blair Major May Starmer et al would deliver.....they forgot about the people....and Boris.....
Because we think we are so powerful and so great, we are nothing and as Scotland and NI leave us we will be even less. We should stick together with our friends rather than hurt them, China will rule the world in 20 years time like the USA have done for decades, we need to be a part of something significant like the worlds biggest market. Gosh we are stupid
John The Wise One, you need to change your name mate, trade descriptions will be after you
It's not a racist comment at all. That's a problem these day, people use the term racist and racism without knowing what it actually means.
Love the way the EU's fallback contingency measures include them continuing to fish in British waters - even if there's no deal!
They just don't get it do they?
They just don't get it do they?
We can fish in French waters too. We've been able to do that for years. Not after a No Deal though, and due to the extra duty on fish we won't be able to sell it back to the EU because it'll be uncompetitive.
Without access. French fisherman would be out of stock overnight. Its the truth.
They do get it, nearly 90% of it in fact, our fish shop cod is imported from Greenland and 75-90% of what we catch is sold to EU as we're not keen on rollmops etc. Why are we so arrogant and stupid?
No they don't they are the ones wanting their cake and eating it but despite the remainer garbage on here the British people are no fools they see right through it all.
Removed
The current situation was agreed by the UK government as a way of opening up the waters around Europe as a European resource and is linked to the opening up of a single market for then selling fish. The EU is saying that if the UK wants to maintain the status quo in respect of the single market, the EU wants to retain the status quo in respect of fishing rights.
Are you aware that many British Fishermen sold off their quotas to highest bidders many years ago - irrespective of where they were from.
They have offered to carry on fishing in our waters if we agree to their level playing fields requirements (which they do not adhere to) and penalties for ever.
Fish represents a tiny fraction of our economy. Honestly if you voted Brexit because you were kept awake at night thinking about french blokes fishing in our sea then you really don’t deserve a vote.
umm, 7driver, i think YOU don't get it. Have you considered why Britain would agree, as it has done, to allow the EU to continue fishing in its waters? Have you considered that the EU provides an economic incentive to do that? And that Britain, cash strapped and in recession, is desperate for coin?
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If the UK turn down their offers, there will be no aircraft flying from here to the EU either, or over it.
Holidays in Clacton in future?
The offers are all tied.
Holidays in Clacton in future?
The offers are all tied.
The navy's going to be very busy indeed and then they'll get the message alright
The right to fish the waters were sold to them by British Fishermen.
If you'd legitimately bought a business in France, and the French government were going to simply take that back off you in 3 weeks, how would you be feeling right now?
Starting from January we will see EU fishing boats enter those areas to fish. What will follow will hopefully be a legal battle and not violence. What a mess.
If you'd legitimately bought a business in France, and the French government were going to simply take that back off you in 3 weeks, how would you be feeling right now?
Starting from January we will see EU fishing boats enter those areas to fish. What will follow will hopefully be a legal battle and not violence. What a mess.
And with all those 747 freighters sitting around, surely we can find export markets which would like fish usually sold in Europe? Japan? China? Korea?
Most of the fish we consume in the UK is cod and haddock... which live in Norwegian waters, which we lose the right to fish on 1 January. The EU's proposal is actually very fair.
Exaclty the reason we need to get clear of them and get some control back of what is happening
It shows their arrogance and contempt for the u.k no deal has to mean no fishing in our waters
even if we leave the french will fish in our waters always have and always will
Fishing is a tiny tiny portion of the British economy. We sold a lot of our fishing rights off to EU fleets years and years ago out of short term greed. Now I agree that we should have fishing rights in our waters, but the problem is the fish in our waters aren't what British people eat. So we export that fish. And import cod and haddock. With new tariffs both ways I'm sure you see the problem.
Who cares about fishing rights?! Its impact on the economy is negligible. Topshop going bust has a bigger impact on GDP than fishing rights for crying out loud!
Without a deal its now down to mini deals on specific areas. And guess what, they still hold most of the cards so we won't get anything without having to compromise which brings us full circle back to the main deal. There is no point in moaning that they don't want us to overly prosper outside the club - that should have been forseen instead of talking about the easiest deal in history
If you bothered listening to Ursula's great speech, she aluded to the expectation that although the EU fisheries arrangements may cease, there would be the expectation that pre EU fishing agreements could be resurrected. IF the UK wants to stop all current and past agreements then that is just plain childishness
If Britain isn't planning to diverge and really wants a deal, then why not just let them have it?
You think we're the largest export market for the EU! Oh dear.
The problem is you can replace the word EU in your comment with UK, and its actually even more true.
Is the UK the largest export partner of the EU? I don't think so.
they dont need us, the world is their oyster, with us at the back of the queue!!!
They make the mistake of believing UK rejoiners, and as everyone but the EU knows, they are never right, be it either through ignorance or design.
Hahaha. Rational you are irrational. EU is UK's largest market, we are not the EU's largest market. So you should be criticizing our government for throwing a way a deal because we might not like the regulations in the future. That is funny.
Four EU countries will each take 10% of the hit the UK takes.
The rest won't be too bothered.
The EU always held the strong cards.
The rest won't be too bothered.
The EU always held the strong cards.
LOL yep, thats' why they will lose thousands of auto workers jobs and fishermen's jobs and farmers, and the City will still be trading in Europe - so we get our cake and they haggle and can't agree over theirs
Really methinks not and not many real economists agree with you you should stop believing the scaremongering.
No it does not. Appreciation of EUR as the USD + GBP artificially devalue their currencies, WILL hurt zee Germans who now pay for the EU and why they supported the Project Euro in the late 90s. As ever the biased BBC does not discuss currency hedging for businesses and how it will hurt EU exporters. Tariffs are irrelevant for most businesses as fixed cost: currency hedging is a much higher cost
They sell more to us than we sell to them. We have the largest fishing grounds. We hold the cards.
And since 2016 the trade within the EU-27 has increased by more than their trade with the UK, so they won't even notice we have gone.
Meanwhile the UK takes a 43% hit. The trouble with Brexiteers is they still seem to think the EU is one country not 27.
I think more than 4 EU countries will be every so slighlty concerend considering we do consume a fair amount of goods from the EU
Civil war in EU will have nothing to do with us. Time is about right for another European war.
Until it falls apart and one corner of its foundation will no longer be offering its support, can't wait for it to happen and it will.
Italy, Greece, Poland and Hungary to start and then when Le Pen gets in, it'll be France's turn.
Italy, Greece, Poland and Hungary to start and then when Le Pen gets in, it'll be France's turn.
Perhaps if the EU population hadn't hated us so much the UK population wouldn't have voted to leave so much
But you can't live your life measuring your success against the failures of others. This is how a few leavers spoil themselves - by thinking its a competition. Its not, its a philosophical and moral change in a relationship that is no longer desirable and the best response is to simply not care what happens to them good or bad.
The French and Germans have to pick up the contributions the UK would have paid. They want to punish us, even if that means extra financial pain for them.
We are trying to sort a trade deal but its politics getting in the way. Politics prevents a win-win situation. We ALL lose.
We are trying to sort a trade deal but its politics getting in the way. Politics prevents a win-win situation. We ALL lose.
You really don't understand how this works, the four countries that take the hit are the ones that bankroll the rest of the EU countries, the rest will be bothered when their free money dries up or they might even have to contribute instead of recieve.
They will need to because they will have to make up the money the UK won't have to pay.
The eu has strong cards.I needed a joke today
Well the next big war we can tell them to get stuffed we are not coming to the rescue again.
Yes, it's almost as if an alliance of 27 countries with a combined population of 4.5 hundred million and a combined GDP of $15 trillion is more powerful than a single country with a population of 66 million and a GDP of $2.6 trillion.
Wrong!
Germany's been lending money to other nations within the E.U to buy its goods, now that some can't pay it back, they're on the back foot.
Losing our trade, especially on car's, might be a 'Bridge too far' even for their economy
Germany's been lending money to other nations within the E.U to buy its goods, now that some can't pay it back, they're on the back foot.
Losing our trade, especially on car's, might be a 'Bridge too far' even for their economy
Very strong hand
Losing one of currently four net contributors
They won't budge on anything ever cos they never do
And that is why we are here
The EUs complete inflexibility and failure to take it's population with it is why we are
Losing one of currently four net contributors
They won't budge on anything ever cos they never do
And that is why we are here
The EUs complete inflexibility and failure to take it's population with it is why we are
And since they will gain much of UK's remaining industry and banking plus taking over UK's current £300bn of exports to the EU a year, many will actually gain.
Yet Boris demands pragmatism?
Yet Boris demands pragmatism?
Replublic of Ireland takes 10x the hit
We simply find new markets. The EU probably won’t.
Best thing is to buy shares in UK demolition companies who will have loads of work knocking down empty factories
What factories? The UK has a small manufacturing base. The service sector is what runs the economy. Biris should be looking to China for investment (just like France).
Can't be true, you rejoiners have been telling us for four years the UK didn't make anything, so why would we have factories? With covid lock-down and it meaning no UK tourists to the EU in January and the EU allowing the CIty of London to keep trading in the EU, better invest in London's insolvency firms they'll have loads of EU business in Southern Europe in the coming months. ;-)
They went long ago. Also don't forget UK trade (visible and invisible) with the EU & EEA amounts to just 12% of our GDP. This is what the biased BBC does not portray. Neither sharp decline in percentage of GDP over 20 years and perhaps the real reason for Brexit and the difference between visible and invisible. Check out to huge difference before being flippant
Maybe we should bend over and surrender our territorial waters like Canada and Australia had to do... Oh wait.
Well that was intelligent wasn't it. Oh wait
Someone tell me again the benefits of BREXIT??
How would a ?? know what other people did or didn't vote for? £350m was on the bus, not sovereignty.
Ah, its just some people are still keen on being able to have dinner next Thursday. They don't want it to cost more, or be full of American chlorine or steroids.
Still, can always eat that soverignty. Nom nom nom
Still, can always eat that soverignty. Nom nom nom
"Sovereignty"
27 countries have sovereignty and work together
1 doesn't
27 countries have sovereignty and work together
1 doesn't
Ha ha ha ha ha!
Thanks for taking responsibility.
@cardoons "Sovereignty"? Being independent and refusing to obey other peoples' rules? What does that really mean? We are a nation that already manufactures too little and is now destroying our biggest overseas markets because we refuse to follow their quality and safety standards? We'll end up having two sets of standards that we have to measure everything against.
Hastening our decline.
Hastening our decline.
What do you even mean?! How was the EU actually impacting your waking life with regards to sovereignty?! You have no substance to your view. This is the problem with Brexiteers, none of you knew what you were voting for or realised the repercussions.
And now you’re too stubborn to admit it. At least the racist ones will simply admit it was about immigration.
And now you’re too stubborn to admit it. At least the racist ones will simply admit it was about immigration.
Sovereignty?
leave WTO?
leave NATO?
leave UN?
No?
Sovereignty, my A$$
leave WTO?
leave NATO?
leave UN?
No?
Sovereignty, my A$$
Right, it was about being racist, stupid and selfish.
"Sovereignty"?
We already had that, as I'm sure you'll recall when Gina Miller went court to ensure parliamentary rules were obeyed, and Brexiteers were throwing tantrums.
We already had that, as I'm sure you'll recall when Gina Miller went court to ensure parliamentary rules were obeyed, and Brexiteers were throwing tantrums.
We all know the super rich bankrolled Brexit to avoid the EU crackdown on their greedy practice of dodging tax Now they can continue stuffing offshore tax havens with their cash While the rest of us suffer the consequences No deal will lead to shortages & job losses & poverty It will cause problems 2 to 3X more than Covid19 The dummies you Cardoons you fell for it ! Unless of course you a bot?
Does Sovereignty put food on the table ? Does Sovereignty give your kids more choice in life ? Does Sovereignty give you more money in your pocket ? oh and we had Sovereignty before and after 2016 you were just brainwashed into thinking we did not. I bet your one of those who think the Covid vaccine contains a microchip. Ah bless
We may not know how many kids Johnson has, but we're all starting to get an idea of what it must've been like when he ran out on their mothers. "Look, I wanted a good relationship with you, but your mum insisted I make all sorts of commitments. She said that you'll be going to school soon, and I'd have to get involved in the PTA, and no proud Etonian could ever tolerate that, so I'm orrf."
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The more I read, the more convinced I am we made the right choice back in 2016. The day after the vote, we all became brexiters, like it or not. However, another day of the BBC HYS echo chamber commences...
Ditto, nor will I be, I'm too intelligent and unselfish to have voted for this mess.
Well if you voted for no deal you can enjoy explaining to your children and grandchildren for the next 20 years why they were not entitled to the same prosperity and freedom that you had.
I think you'll find that our children will be free to apply for and take jobs in EU nations just like they were before free movement.
But they can say the word Sovereignty over and over again with their fingers in your ears!!!
Any other events in the next 20 years that you can so expertly predict, please share.
What that 48% of those that voted remain gave up and went into a massive sulk
Are your Children that thick, that they need 20 Years to explain sovereignty.
I'm guessing you're a remainer. Removed
I'm guessing you're a remainer. Removed
Covid is the major explanation.... brexit will be less so
You seem to forget it was a secret ballot. I suspect in the future no one will admit to having voted for this if things go really badly.
Of course I'm sure if things go really well, OK its a remote possibility, you'll be surprised how many people actually will claim to have voted for Brexit.
Most likely you will never really know for sure.
Of course I'm sure if things go really well, OK its a remote possibility, you'll be surprised how many people actually will claim to have voted for Brexit.
Most likely you will never really know for sure.
You have no idea if this will be good or bad. But I bet you hope it is bad so you can keep banging the same drum. Sad
Couldn't afford any grandchildren because we've been being screwed by the EU for 40 years.
And if we didn't leave, we'd have to explain to our children why we were dragged down by the federalist EU project and the virtually bankrupt ECB. Remind us again how the negotiations went for the EU Budget a few weeks ago, where Poland and Hungary vetoed it because they don't want to be federally controlled from Germany. Yup, the definition of success right there.
What absolute tosh I will enjoy trying to give my grandkids a proper job when they leave school not stacking shelves in supermarkets. You belittle the British people with such negative and defeatist talk people like you are the reason we find ourselves where we are.
Erm,
The type of deal was not in the ballot form. It was a binary choice of leave or remain. Remain couldn't carry the argument. Did you even vote? You'd know that if you did. If you could have and did not, shut up. You are not in a position to lecture others if you weren't at the match.
The type of deal was not in the ballot form. It was a binary choice of leave or remain. Remain couldn't carry the argument. Did you even vote? You'd know that if you did. If you could have and did not, shut up. You are not in a position to lecture others if you weren't at the match.
Based on the Leave voting demographics, in 20 years time a serious chunk of Leave voters will no longer be around to have to explain anything to anyone.
Prosperity is a product of the country, not membership of a club, which has a large democratic deficit.
And perhaps you will explain to your grandchildren, who may well have an opposing view to you, as to why you spent 3 years+ whinging as to the outcome of a democratic referendum rather than knuckling-down and getting on with the decision?
How wet are you to think that Brexit will be a key determinate of a child's prosperity? I work tirelessly to ensure the prosperity of my family, come hell or high water, I will ensure they have what they need to prosper. If I had to shovel **** for 18 hours a day to guarantee it, I would. We all have a choice, resign to blaming brexit, unfairness and inequality or work hard and make it happen
Yawn. How many times have you posted this?
Can we just get this over and done with
This have become pathetic now... both sides giving a running commentary on what % chance there is of a No Deal (on a day to day bases). Really? This has just become pathetic and time to call it quits and move on
This have become pathetic now... both sides giving a running commentary on what % chance there is of a No Deal (on a day to day bases). Really? This has just become pathetic and time to call it quits and move on
Since joining the single market the growth of UK exports to *non EU countries* has grown far far quicker than growth of exports to EU countries. In fact all that has happened is we have developed a massive trade deficit with the EU while paying huge membership fees.
In the long run the UK will be absolutely fine.
In the long run the UK will be absolutely fine.
You realise percentage is meaninless, a 100% pay rise sounds good, but if you were on £20 a week, it isn't great. Oddly, the middle of the desert isn't going to buy our high tech or bank services.
Pedel youe excuses elsewhere please.
Pedel youe excuses elsewhere please.
Correct, paying the Eu Cabal to make ourselves poorer.
The proportion of our exports going to the EU has been falling year on year. The EU % of world GDP has been falling year on year.
And there will still be liars that say "this is what WE voted for"
It definitely is not what you were sold.
It definitely is not what you were sold.
You're right in many ways about how the "debate" from both sides ha been conjecture in the main, however It was rejected because the EU insisted that if it makes a new rule say on state aid at any point in the future the UK would have to comply of face sanctions. To most objective thinkers this isn't leaving, whether you voted for it or not.
Its a bit like a general election the vast majority will vote the way they vote irrespective of whats best for the country, anybody else etc. Usually that has meant how much free money am I getting.
Let you into a secret most people who voted didn't take any notice of what was said and certainly weren't sold it. If it makes you feel better that they were duped so be it.
Let you into a secret most people who voted didn't take any notice of what was said and certainly weren't sold it. If it makes you feel better that they were duped so be it.
If you are ‘sold’ something. It shows a certain weakness in oneself.
Yes, if what Farage, Johnson etc said was true, I think a vast majority of people would have voted for Brexit; I know I would have. It wasn't though - every single pro-Brexit argument was a lie - so the vote depended on gullibility.
the only vote i ever posted was for brexit, lets talk in 5 years shall we, times a great thing
It may not be exactly what we had in mind, but remember that we didn't vote remain either
I'm sorry to disappoint you but it is exactly what I voted for.
We voted to leave the EU......Clearly the word "leave" is not something you can understand or bring yourself to understand. And how is carrying out what we voted for a lie? I voted to leave the EU and that's what I want to happen with no strings or surrender of sovereignty to get a shabby deal that only benefits the EU.
Cameron himself said that a No vote would mean leaving the Single Market and Customs Union, so this is exactly what we voted for,
You could say that about nearly every election manifesto in past decades!
You could also look at fact that ukgov, parties and MPs didn't have a clue what ukpublic thought on brexit.. Inspite of a Web age when they could have polled, surveyed, explained online, overnight.
What else are victorian MPs clueless on?
You could also look at fact that ukgov, parties and MPs didn't have a clue what ukpublic thought on brexit.. Inspite of a Web age when they could have polled, surveyed, explained online, overnight.
What else are victorian MPs clueless on?
The referendum was a choice to leave or remain
The people voted to leave
Stop the negativity and get behind your peoples democratic decision
No deal is better than caving in to the EU
The people voted to leave
Stop the negativity and get behind your peoples democratic decision
No deal is better than caving in to the EU
I voted to end freedom of movement. DONE
I voted to leave the EU. DONE
I voted for my own country to make it's own decisions. DONE
You voted for the EU that openly wants to stop the UK being successful. That is logical.
I voted to leave the EU. DONE
I voted for my own country to make it's own decisions. DONE
You voted for the EU that openly wants to stop the UK being successful. That is logical.
No. What we voted for to rid ourselves of a second Government.
So what are going to do about it? Continue to moan or get on with it this will be test of all of us there aren't any exemptions
I think the problem has been all along is that there are a lot of people in this country who are inherently stupid.
Removed
The real cause of the problem is that just under half of the people in the country have treated just over a half of the people as being stupid for far too long and they got pi 55 ed off.
50% of the population has below average IQ .
And the most stupid of the stupid are running the country, ruining it would be more accurate.
And sadly they led both sides of the Brexit debate
And most of those you refer to probably never vote but whine about the referendum and GE results.
They're called Remoaners.
Presumably the 17.4 million people who voted to leave? It must be wonderful to be so much more intelligent than all of them.
Why does it always have to come down to name calling and direct attacks, you might not be able to run as fast as all these people but we do not berate you for it. My Mum always told me, "If you haven't got anything nice to say about someone, don't say anything at all" Wise words Mother.
no - not stupid, just incapable of seeing the big picture and having very little understaning of how rules are developed or trade works
“Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.”
- George Carlin
- George Carlin
Precisely that condescending attitude is why Labour heartlands voted in a party led by an Etonian.
Mostly delusional, provincial, myopic Tories wrapped in tweed underwear, who go to sleep at night with dog-eared, badly foxed histories of the british empire beneath their tear-streaked pillows, and their Labour fellow travellers who just hate foreign people.
"I think the problem has been all along is that there are a lot of people in this country who are inherently stupid."
Couldn't agree more.
Couldn't agree more.
Yep. It was just waiting on the time when that proportion reached over 50% and we had a referendum. In that situation, it doesn't matter how many intelligent people with common sense you have, or how many successful businesses contributing to our country, the idiots will drag everyone down with them, so here we are.
Why do the minorities or losers always feel the need to be insulting?
Yep. I've had that revelation. I must have been living a sheltered life for over 60 years: family, school, college, work with people who had different views but were inherently intelligent. But the last 4 years have revealed a whole underclass who are inherently stupid, can't see beyond the ends of their noses and do as the 'toffs' (their word) tell them. Can't sift truth from lies. Sad.
dead right
True, so true, middle-class remoaners always have been though.