Covid: NHS long waits 100 times higher than before
10/12/2020 | news | health | 773
Nearly 163,000 people had been waiting over a year at the end of October, compared with 1,600 in February.
1
10/12/2020 12:40:07 7 6
bbc
God bless the NHS
2
10/12/2020 12:40:07 113 4
bbc
I wonder what the excess death figure will be due to this waiting list?
8
10/12/2020 12:44:34 50 14
bbc
To be fair, those excess deaths will reduce the waiting list
12
10/12/2020 12:46:11 16 3
bbc
Unfortunately I suspect it will be significantly higher than the COVID deaths, simply because more diseases/conditions have been impacted. Also, a larger proportion of the general population will have been affected rather than mostly those over 65/70 with COVID.
132
10/12/2020 13:16:34 8 3
bbc
Far higher than the covid death count probably.
174
10/12/2020 13:26:59 12 3
bbc
There is no such thing as an excess death. Every year the numbers of deaths varies. The question is whether the number of deaths in a given year is within the normal range. For this year deaths are well within the normal range.
429
10/12/2020 14:22:16 5 3
bbc
Eventually, if they ever dare publish the figures more than the virus, and that is just deaths never mind the pain the blinded those permanently disabled, and we all still pay for this overmanaged untouchable shambles, but it is now a diety all applaud on command.
460
10/12/2020 14:35:09 0 6
bbc
These will likely be minor issues and not life threatening.
760
11/12/2020 09:14:20 0 0
bbc
Same as pre-2019.
That was fine for you though hey ?
3
10/12/2020 12:41:02 12 3
bbc
'Wonderif' the excess death figure will get hidden?
4
10/12/2020 12:41:56 7 0
bbc
I had to wait two years for an appointment about a health issue. Thankfully, I found out last week that all was good. But what if it wasn't?
14
10/12/2020 12:46:30 3 11
bbc
Well then that wasn't to do with covid was it???
290
10/12/2020 13:42:05 0 0
bbc
That's why you waited 2 years.
5
10/12/2020 12:42:40 52 10
bbc
If these patients aren’t being seen, what have the staff been doing? There weren’t all in ICU treating COVID patients, like the kissing GPs.
86
10/12/2020 13:08:41 48 4
bbc
Many NHS hospital staff who are not directly involved in treating patients with Covid-19 have been commenting for months on how quiet their wards have been.
95
10/12/2020 12:56:05 21 1
bbc
I know a nurse who wasn't working on Covid wards who was often sent home as there was no patients on her ward. Still got paid. I know a doctor who also wasn't working on Covid patients who seemed to spend the whole day on WhatsApp sending silly videos and jokes. And what possible excuse was there for GP practices refusing to operate? There is no reason GP practices couldn't have stayed open.
307
10/12/2020 13:44:18 3 3
bbc
Many were actually and now a load will be vaccinating people
399
10/12/2020 14:05:47 6 6
bbc
I'd like to see proof that your GP was shut. Most GPs worked harder than ever due to them doing their normal workload, and also picking up the pieces after the hospitals became no-go.

Remote consultations were used where possible to limit the spread of Covid-19.
I'm sure GPs are very sorry if a call rather than a direct face-to-face talk didn't satisfy your overwhelming sense of entitlement.
6
NGB
10/12/2020 12:43:14 133 39
bbc
So we have an NHS that costs tens of billions, employs hundreds of thousands and gets overwhelmed if more than a tiny number of us get seriously ill at once. What a shambles!
11
10/12/2020 12:45:54 29 10
bbc
Wonder happens if there was a national disaster - well- other than this one?
46
10/12/2020 13:00:16 16 7
bbc
Tiny number? Tens of billions? Hundreds of thousands? Just fling ridiculous non factual claims about why don't you? It costs £129 billion, and actually employs 1.5 million staff, when there are not loads of vacancies and the Tories are not cutting the workforce and budget, as they had done consistently for ten years before the covid crisis, which has caused the "tiny number" of 62thousand deaths
53
10/12/2020 13:03:27 16 7
bbc
There were only a limited number of itu beds nationally before covid and a limited number of itu nurses, if you think you can improve things your quite welcome to do your nursing or medical school training.
Thanks for your help!!
58
10/12/2020 13:04:11 17 2
bbc
It didn't get overwhelmed, the strategy used was entirely wrong - they shut down EVERYTHING to free up every resource rather than managing it on a risk basis. Many staff were still in the same departments seeing a fraction of the patients they had previously. GPs/Dentists were shut down effectively rather than using risk based management of patient care.
202
10/12/2020 13:31:05 10 8
bbc
Having been hopelessly unprepared for the first wave, you'd have thought the NHS would have reorganised to increase capacity for any second wave. Apparently not.
234
10/12/2020 13:35:40 6 1
bbc
Preventing the spread of Covid means everything takes much longer and face to face contact needs to kept to the barest minimum for the same reason.
273
10/12/2020 13:40:21 6 2
bbc
And yet it’s still better and more efficient than many alternatives.
286
10/12/2020 13:41:43 9 2
bbc
The demand for NHS services is seasonal and predictable. Therefore it is efficient to have just enough services to handle this demand.

The alternative is to pay for staff, hospitals and equipment that for a vast majority of years, are not required.

Moreover, no health system can handle the excess if transmission is not suppressed!
570
10/12/2020 15:28:59 2 1
bbc
NHS has 1 in 10 vacancies unfilled

We have an ageing obese population

Spare bed capacity has fallen by 70% since 2010

So yes NHS is easily overwhelemed
592
10/12/2020 15:37:55 2 1
bbc
Blame NHS managers, not the government, or blame the public, who will vote out any government which suggests raising NHS funding to the percentage of GDP spent elsewhere.
604
10/12/2020 16:04:20 0 1
bbc
The NHS has not even come close to collapse. I know surgeons in major hospitals who were pushing hard to re-start surgery lists but were prevented doing so by those running NHS policy. I also know someone 50 years old who has died because her operation was cancelled in May.

The NHS has let down a lot of people - is badly run. Of course you can’t criticise it as that would be heretical..
638
10/12/2020 16:22:44 0 1
bbc
I reckon if I had the option of paying into something like BUPA instead of the NHS over my working life I would have had much better service.
666
10/12/2020 16:45:56 1 1
bbc
GO INTO HOSPITAL?? I DID ..FOR EMERGENCY OPP.. THE STAF ON THE FLOOR WERE FANTASTIC!! BUT THE HIGHLY OVERPAYED MANAGERS,ETC WERE A TOTAL MESS,, THE STAFF HAD TO RUN ALL ACROS THE HOSPITAL FOR BITS OF PAPER ,,,BECAUSE THE OFFICE STAFF HAD GONE HOME,THE Drs, NURSES BRILLIANT.. STOP PAY FOR THE REST?? PAY THE Drs, NURSES A LOT MORE ,,,JOB DONE!!
7
10/12/2020 12:43:24 135 15
bbc
Coronavirus - The new excuse when something goes wrong...
73
10/12/2020 13:06:18 61 39
bbc
Yep. See also : Bojo blaming No Deal chaos on Covid.
324
10/12/2020 13:46:40 6 5
bbc
So how or when will MPs and ukgov be held to account?
BJ said 'not the moment' for inquiry.. Then delivers world beating deaths and gdp falls for 11 months.
Taiwan just 7 covid deaths, just 2% gdp fall.
See Japan, S Korea, ozz, nz.
Grenfell inquiry been going on ages.. And yet over 250 flammable hi rise UK wide. That's not the fault of one council or builder. Ukgov? World beating!!
371
10/12/2020 13:51:21 7 5
bbc
Nah, the remainers are still twittering on about Brexit. It will be quite some time before they're over it.
472
10/12/2020 14:41:38 2 2
bbc
Correct, the banks, insurance and holiday companies all blaming their inept ability on Covid.
639
10/12/2020 16:23:34 2 0
bbc
Managers across Britain in the public sector and private sector can now blame Brexit and Covid-19 for their incompetence
2
10/12/2020 12:40:07 113 4
bbc
I wonder what the excess death figure will be due to this waiting list?
8
10/12/2020 12:44:34 50 14
bbc
To be fair, those excess deaths will reduce the waiting list
155
10/12/2020 13:22:29 8 3
bbc
Well maybe we should have let Covid run its course then with that idea?
9
10/12/2020 12:45:04 209 22
bbc
What NHS ? have you tried to see a GP or dentist lately?
41
10/12/2020 12:59:11 118 9
bbc
My 90 year old father-in-law keeps requiring the doctor. Can we get them to come out to see him?

Not a chance

The last time they simply sent him a prescription for antibiotics. A day or so later he'd deteriorated to the point he was talking to his wife (who had died 15 years ago).

A day in the hospital before being booted out (because of Corona beds - but no test) back home...

Priceless
55
AJ
10/12/2020 13:03:49 20 9
bbc
Yes, had a GP consultation 3 weeks ago (everything now dealt with) and I've got a dentist appointment January.
63
10/12/2020 13:05:01 28 6
bbc
Our local GP usually has 3 doctors on call, yet for some reason there's only 1 per week at the moment. And they don't even see patients in person anymore.

It's a complete shambles. Trying to describe your issues over the phone is just awkward and feels impersonal.

You can't get properly assessed.
170
10/12/2020 13:25:57 19 3
bbc
Almost all GP's are private enterprise, they just have a contract to provide NHS with a service.

Very few are actually employed by the NHS directly. It has always been so since Bevan "stuffed their mouths with gold" to get the NHS started. Perhaps dentists are the same, I don't know.
198
10/12/2020 13:30:34 11 1
bbc
Look on the bright side. Masks are a godsend if your teeth have fallen out.
215
10/12/2020 13:33:10 16 6
bbc
Saw GP last week. Had blood tests and seen the dentist several times. Had loads of help over the phone and by video link.
250
10/12/2020 13:37:23 7 2
bbc
Saw the dentist twice this week with two more appointments first week in January ?
259
BTJ
10/12/2020 13:38:34 12 0
bbc
I broke a tooth & my NHS dentist said I'd need to wait until next year to have a crown fitted. I offered to go private & the new crown was fitted within three weeks. Cost me £550 though!
291
10/12/2020 13:42:08 12 4
bbc
Yes, was seen on the same day.
345
10/12/2020 13:51:08 2 1
bbc
GP's are part of the NHS NHS dentists are rarity many are Private Sector
430
Ian
10/12/2020 14:22:51 3 9
bbc
??The Tories will be pleased about this because they want to kill off the NHS. People will have no choice but to pay for private healthcare now.

??If you voted Conservative, you've no reason to complain about having to shell out money for you and your family
432
10/12/2020 14:23:45 1 2
bbc
It was bad here before Covid-19.
438
10/12/2020 14:24:59 2 0
bbc
My dentist has been brilliant as rang them with tooth pain. Got appt the following day and now got root canal on Monday and following Tuesday.
462
10/12/2020 14:35:45 10 3
bbc
Phoned my GP yesterday morning and had a face-to-face, virus-safe appointment with them at 4pm.

Had a reminder from my dentist last Thursday that my appointment for a check-up on Friday was still on.

I don't know where you live but my GP's, dentists and hospitals have been performing miracles these last few months.
473
10/12/2020 14:41:05 3 3
bbc
Used to be seen within a week by my GP practice but after immigration from new EU countries and Asia into my area it rose to two months. Greater workload for GPs and less face-to-face time with patients.
549
10/12/2020 15:19:14 2 2
bbc
Changed my dentist adn can see him readily. Doctors- do they still exist?
556
10/12/2020 15:20:52 1 0
bbc
you have no chance. i was told to call an ambulance
576
10/12/2020 15:31:10 2 0
bbc
I've seen my GP several times since March, each time within a day or two of requesting an appointment.
Several appointments with a practice nurse too.
Don't blame the NHS; blame your GP, as they're private contractors (Back in '47 GP's were utterly opposed to the formation of the NHS unless they were given this concession), not NHS staff.
577
10/12/2020 15:32:01 0 0
bbc
Erm, yes. I have seen my GP five times this year, four of those times being during lockdown......
585
10/12/2020 15:38:46 0 0
bbc
Yes, on both counts and no issues what so ever.
657
10/12/2020 16:39:09 0 1
bbc
NO CHANCE !THEY ARE ALL AT HOME ON FULL PAY!!
671
10/12/2020 16:48:46 0 1
bbc
Dentist is open OK - but then they are a private company where working pays.

The NHS is run for the benefit of the staff with health benefits a side show used to blackmail the taxpayer.

What to have done:
Split it in two.
Half runs as normal - but no CV patients
Half is in total isolation doing ONLY CV, patients and staff all quarantined, no popping into Tesco on the way home to infect people
691
sm1
10/12/2020 17:07:35 0 0
bbc
I'm a doctor. I'm working a 60 hour week at the moment. It really is a kick in the nuts when people say we're not working.
703
10/12/2020 17:16:12 0 0
bbc
Yes and not successfully. In fact very few get to see a GP. My next door neighbour had an emergency op to remove his gall-bladder. GP refused to see him. Ambulance called. M’learned friends being consulted.
706
10/12/2020 17:17:37 0 0
bbc
The only thing the NHS is good for these days is if you want to catch Covid.

A national embarrassment more like.
744
10/12/2020 18:59:42 0 0
bbc
De-woke the world? I'm very happy to be 'woke.' I'm liberal in politics, anti-misogynist, anti-homophobic, internationalist, anti-racist and I also love Harry & Megan. I don't worry too much about most things because I believe in people. If 'woke' means unduly privileged and unable to handle life's challenges then I reckon the accusers are the most 'woke' generation this country has ever had.
751
10/12/2020 20:33:12 0 0
bbc
NHS dentistry disappeared in all but name in about the 1980s.
10
10/12/2020 12:45:25 114 38
bbc
Why NHS is so sacred to you, Britons? Why are you so proud of it? What did work in Clement's times does not work now. NHS needs some kind of shock therapy.There are better national health services in most of the western countries. Today NHS executives come to Gdansk to learn( sic!) how to run HS effectively. Look at German, Swedish model. NHS is overfunded yet outdated with massive problems.
21
10/12/2020 12:49:33 48 22
bbc
Those are not completely state funded health services. How can you compare unlike for unlike?
29
10/12/2020 12:51:50 20 10
bbc
Agree - total reform needed. Too many lazy, unaccountable people in NHS at all levels from porter staff, nurses, consultants through to managers. Too much waste, and wasteful people. Too many malingerers. Yes, there are many great people in the NHS, but if was a private company, they would remain + be rewarded (with more like them recruited), and the rest of the deadwood lead-swingers rooted out.
30
10/12/2020 12:52:00 17 11
bbc
I suppose the compassionate people of Poland have saved a few euros for their health service by banning abortions
42
10/12/2020 12:59:19 5 4
bbc
Well said absolutely correct.
59
10/12/2020 12:53:44 7 1
bbc
Complete different demographics, population control on a small island with limited space is more of an issue
62
10/12/2020 13:04:41 27 3
bbc
The media and politicians feed us a diatribe about the selfless angels in the NHS

1) NHS staff vary from awful to amazing - just like in any other organisation
2) NHS staff are doing a job to get paid - they are not volunteers
3) Public sector T&C's in general are excellent - pensions, performance, holidays, job security

NHS staff are just people doing a job, they deserve respect, not adulation
162
10/12/2020 13:23:28 6 3
bbc
most worrying is that nearly 20% of Covid Cases are Hospital Acquired Infections, tested positive after being in hospital more than 7 days.
167
10/12/2020 13:25:06 7 7
bbc
That's so true. All the money in the world wouldn't be enough for our NHS it's just a money pit.
210
10/12/2020 13:32:19 12 4
bbc
Simply not true. The NHS is underfunded compared to the German system. That's why they have more excess capacity, including ICU beds and ventilators.

There's no affordability crisis in the NHS, we just keep electing governments that would rather give the money to their mates in exchange for non-existent or unusable PPE.
283
BTJ
10/12/2020 13:41:16 2 1
bbc
I provided business services to the NHS for many years. The waste & quality of management was appalling. The organisation was almost paralysed with inertia.
332
10/12/2020 13:47:59 4 7
bbc
Excellent comment. I bet if you asked the average person why the NHS is a national treasure they'd struggle to tell you. People have forgotten that there might just be some middle ground between the NHS and a what they have in the US, but of course if you mention an alternative that makes you a filthy Tory who hates the sick and loves big healthcare companies.
398
pTc
10/12/2020 14:05:18 0 2
bbc
People attribute it being 'Free' with Good. Execpt it is not free, it is funded via National Insurance contributions. Also it fares worse in many outcomes compared to other national health care providers. It is bloated with middle management, it lacks consistently in care across each hospital and it is horrendously inefficient.
485
10/12/2020 14:50:55 1 0
bbc
Please stop talking nonsense

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Healthcare_expenditure_statistics

The other countries you mention also require that people have healthcare insurance, something that the UK has so far managed to avoid.

Unfortunately the Tories are doing a spectacular job at convincing their idiot base they don't need free healthcare "NHS bad durrr"
593
10/12/2020 15:41:31 0 0
bbc
UK spends LESS public money on healthcare than France, Denmark, Belgium, Netherlands, Norway, Germany or Sweden, so how is it "overfunded"?
650
10/12/2020 16:30:12 1 0
bbc
The issue in UK is people get confused between”free at point of use” and “free”.
We pay enormous amounts into the NHS, which due to wastage isn’t economic.
But I don’t trust our Government enough to protect us in an honest German style insurance backed model....their ethics would allow us to slide into a money-grabbing US style model.
652
10/12/2020 16:34:21 1 0
bbc
The problem with a 'free' health service (which is how many people see it) is that it does not encourage people to take responsibility for their own health. The UK is full of overweight, unhealthy people who expect the NHS to sort them out when they get sick. You pay car insurance, you drive carefully because you know it will cost you if you have a crash. But if the state paid to fix your car....
6
NGB
10/12/2020 12:43:14 133 39
bbc
So we have an NHS that costs tens of billions, employs hundreds of thousands and gets overwhelmed if more than a tiny number of us get seriously ill at once. What a shambles!
11
10/12/2020 12:45:54 29 10
bbc
Wonder happens if there was a national disaster - well- other than this one?
40
10/12/2020 12:59:11 15 6
bbc
The only disaster is the way in which the government have managed their reaction to Covid.

They have been so typically linear in their approach to this, it was Covid or nothing... completely disregarding ALL other diseases, both physical and mental.
565
10/12/2020 15:25:23 0 0
bbc
There is - but it doesn't need the NHS!
761
11/12/2020 09:15:10 0 0
bbc
If people are foolish enough to trust Healthcare to the rightwing this is what happens.
2
10/12/2020 12:40:07 113 4
bbc
I wonder what the excess death figure will be due to this waiting list?
12
10/12/2020 12:46:11 16 3
bbc
Unfortunately I suspect it will be significantly higher than the COVID deaths, simply because more diseases/conditions have been impacted. Also, a larger proportion of the general population will have been affected rather than mostly those over 65/70 with COVID.
13
10/12/2020 12:46:24 73 3
bbc
Think that's bad? Northern Ireland's waiting lists are shocking. I was told by my GP it would be 3 years to see a rheumatologist. Yep folks, THREE YEARS just to have an initial consultation with a rheumatologist. To those responsible, hang your heads in absolute shame.
31
10/12/2020 12:53:24 18 9
bbc
They new a pandemic was 'when' not 'if'. They had operation Cygnus and one before that 'Wintergreen'(?) and did nothing. Short term politics?
216
10/12/2020 13:33:10 5 0
bbc
Totally agree. I had a similar experience at the start of this year. Was quoted 2½ to 3 years to see a specialist. I run my own business, so couldn't wait anywhere near that long. Gave the piggy bank a shake and went private, and was seen a couple of weeks later. Oh - and by the Consultant with the long waiting list.
246
10/12/2020 13:37:10 1 0
bbc
If doctors don’t want to work in NI there’s nothing politicians can do about it. If patients complained or demanded compensation less, perhaps more people would want to be doctors.
581
10/12/2020 15:35:49 0 0
bbc
They won't hang their heads in shame though.
628
10/12/2020 16:17:31 1 0
bbc
Isn't NI's health service devolved to Stormont?
If so, perhaps all parties in NI should stop fighting with each other and support the common good.
4
10/12/2020 12:41:56 7 0
bbc
I had to wait two years for an appointment about a health issue. Thankfully, I found out last week that all was good. But what if it wasn't?
14
10/12/2020 12:46:30 3 11
bbc
Well then that wasn't to do with covid was it???
15
10/12/2020 12:46:31 8 6
bbc
The NHS were seriously understaffed before the pandemic and the situation is worsening. Who remembers bozo and the cabinet parroting "50,000 more nurses" just a year ago. Where are they?
568
10/12/2020 15:28:01 0 1
bbc
Where exactly do you think this or any other country could find 50,000 nurses? If you choose to believe politicians' soundbites, then more fool you.
729
10/12/2020 18:00:31 0 0
bbc
POSSIBLY YOU DO NOT REALISE THE Drs,NURSES do not just happen,,, then they need paying!! that will only happen when somebody takes hold and removes the massive money sponge called middle/top management.
16
10/12/2020 12:47:23 17 4
bbc
Will they ever be able to produce an estimate of deaths due to Covid, even though the deceased weren't actually infected, just had diagnosis and treatment for other illnesses delayed until too late?
17
10/12/2020 12:48:07 19 7
bbc
Let's not forget that in 2015 Jeremy Hunt promised 5000 extra GPs by 2020 & delivered none, ignored the recommendations of the 2016 pandemic planning exercise to stockpile PPE, took funding out of the Public Health Service so it became bound to fail under the pressure of C-19 and so ran the NHS that when C-19 arrived 10% of NHS jobs were vacant.

"The NHS is safe with us" - a Conservative promise.
54
10/12/2020 13:03:28 12 4
bbc
Was it any safer under Labour?
118
10/12/2020 13:14:38 2 0
bbc
Have a look over Offa’ Dyke to Wales if you want to know what happens when Labour runs the NHS!
18
10/12/2020 12:41:28 10 3
bbc
Turns out the NHS doesn’t have infinite capacity. Who knew?
19
10/12/2020 12:41:42 28 10
bbc
"The NHS have been pretty busy since February, obviously" should be the headline here. There is no story here, you are a waste BBC.
20
jay
10/12/2020 12:49:08 78 9
bbc
shh, covid is the only important thing ,don't you know .......
299
10/12/2020 13:43:35 32 5
bbc
Saying anything else would be blasphemy
690
10/12/2020 17:07:15 0 0
bbc
Indeed, you’re not permitted to question the governments’ narrative, peddled non-stop by a compliant main stream media.
10
10/12/2020 12:45:25 114 38
bbc
Why NHS is so sacred to you, Britons? Why are you so proud of it? What did work in Clement's times does not work now. NHS needs some kind of shock therapy.There are better national health services in most of the western countries. Today NHS executives come to Gdansk to learn( sic!) how to run HS effectively. Look at German, Swedish model. NHS is overfunded yet outdated with massive problems.
21
10/12/2020 12:49:33 48 22
bbc
Those are not completely state funded health services. How can you compare unlike for unlike?
323
10/12/2020 13:46:38 0 4
bbc
money in v people treated. a simple measure. why does it matter if it is private or public funded run for profit or not.
347
10/12/2020 13:51:51 1 3
bbc
Well shall we just start at fit for purpose?
Is NHS fit for purpose?
Has it updated with tech?
At moment lm being investigated for some issue.. Gp can't seem to access or talk to hospital for records!? Snail mail letters are sent, taking 7 days. In 21st century!!??
Then account for austerity.
Public were told NHS, mod & foreign aid protected.
Weird Last few months extra money announced for MoD.
353
10/12/2020 13:52:35 0 2
bbc
Does it matter how NHS funded?
Is it fit for purpose?
384
10/12/2020 14:00:20 0 1
bbc
Simple you look at how they work what they do better? stop trying to limit the way we provide health services because there would be an outcry if we had a Private/Public service like France because we are stuck in mindset that everything must be funded from the Public Sector
22
KRM
10/12/2020 12:49:58 2 3
bbc
Just had a letter saying my appointment to get ears cleared of wax is likely to be a two year wait !
33
10/12/2020 12:55:36 3 0
bbc
pardon?
79
10/12/2020 13:07:22 0 0
bbc
ehhhea
81
AJ
10/12/2020 13:07:30 0 0
bbc
Try Otex eardrops - absolutely brilliant.
130
10/12/2020 13:15:36 0 0
bbc
Syringing ears has been removed from nhs treatments, you would be better seeking private treatment.
149
10/12/2020 13:20:29 0 0
bbc
Do it yourself!
23
10/12/2020 12:50:07 9 0
bbc
I am one of 160k waiting over 12mths , I did receive a call from my consultant during lockdown to enquire whether my degenerative ankle condition had 'improved' ? So I am on the (still) on the list to be seen within 10 weeks of normal service operating , but when will that be ?
279
10/12/2020 13:40:52 0 2
bbc
Is your condition cancerous?
24
jay
10/12/2020 12:50:30 15 3
bbc
lord help us a new breed of wasp will fly over and lockdown will resume
we could overwhelm the nhs with wasp stings....
425
10/12/2020 14:21:15 0 3
bbc
This doesn’t even make sense.
25
10/12/2020 12:51:19 5 1
bbc
Well, who would have guessed
26
10/12/2020 12:51:19 180 35
bbc
We were told to protect the NHS, we did and this is the result. Remember that the NHS is now our official religion, it's more important than anything else in our lives and if people have to die to protect it then so be it. Bend the knee to our new god...
69
10/12/2020 13:05:41 185 7
bbc
The NHS didn't actually ask to be protected, we want to treat patients, but they were told not to turn up and we were told to shut down in case we were needed.. even though it was obviously we weren't at the time.

It was a complete over reaction in part driven by the media who will now pass the buck as much as possible.
264
10/12/2020 13:39:07 13 2
bbc
Taiwan didn't shutdown over covid.
Just 7 covid deaths, just 2% gdp fall.
UKgov 60,000 dead, 12% gdp fall.

I was in Taiwan Feb to June 2020. Everything was open high street, mcds, cinemas, bars, events, hospitals.

Surely bbc has reporters in SE Asia? Where are their reports and pictures? Censored?

S Korea, Japan, ozz, nz.. All coped far better than UK on covid.. Less deaths, less gdp fall.
293
10/12/2020 13:42:27 4 9
bbc
Fewer people abused by nhs than priests
298
W 6
10/12/2020 13:43:20 20 6
bbc
Remember 10 months ago when the NHS was meant to protect us rather than the other way around?

Keep that NI flowing and those claps coming, suckers...
350
10/12/2020 13:52:26 4 0
bbc
I appreciate you sarcasm but as they say may a true word said in jest
436
10/12/2020 14:24:52 4 2
bbc
That says it all, they are actively removing posts that criticise MSM for the biased reporting.
27
10/12/2020 12:51:37 8 2
bbc
In other news... the moon orbits the earth roughly once every four weeks and it tends to go dark before morning.
76
10/12/2020 13:07:00 1 3
bbc
0/10 for originality
28
10/12/2020 12:51:46 5 3
bbc
i'm peering into my crystal ball and seeing lots of lawsuits
10
10/12/2020 12:45:25 114 38
bbc
Why NHS is so sacred to you, Britons? Why are you so proud of it? What did work in Clement's times does not work now. NHS needs some kind of shock therapy.There are better national health services in most of the western countries. Today NHS executives come to Gdansk to learn( sic!) how to run HS effectively. Look at German, Swedish model. NHS is overfunded yet outdated with massive problems.
29
10/12/2020 12:51:50 20 10
bbc
Agree - total reform needed. Too many lazy, unaccountable people in NHS at all levels from porter staff, nurses, consultants through to managers. Too much waste, and wasteful people. Too many malingerers. Yes, there are many great people in the NHS, but if was a private company, they would remain + be rewarded (with more like them recruited), and the rest of the deadwood lead-swingers rooted out.
83
10/12/2020 13:07:56 5 5
bbc
Go and buy some private medical insurance then.
296
10/12/2020 13:43:06 2 0
bbc
What’s your personal experience of this? Most other models are more expensive and less effecient
625
10/12/2020 16:17:12 0 0
bbc
Yup and costs would increase massively. Non profitably health care would cease and we would all pay a lot more for a lot less. No doubt the private health care providers would mostly be non uk so all profits would go abroad, probably to prop up foreign health systems.

What a fantastic idea.

How about we also privatise trains, power generation & water. That lead to so much less waste hasn't it!
10
10/12/2020 12:45:25 114 38
bbc
Why NHS is so sacred to you, Britons? Why are you so proud of it? What did work in Clement's times does not work now. NHS needs some kind of shock therapy.There are better national health services in most of the western countries. Today NHS executives come to Gdansk to learn( sic!) how to run HS effectively. Look at German, Swedish model. NHS is overfunded yet outdated with massive problems.
30
10/12/2020 12:52:00 17 11
bbc
I suppose the compassionate people of Poland have saved a few euros for their health service by banning abortions
Should we follow the "civilised western world" by aborting the most innocent ones- the unborn. Over 200 000 abortions in UK. Every single year! You call it compassion or the culture of death?
13
10/12/2020 12:46:24 73 3
bbc
Think that's bad? Northern Ireland's waiting lists are shocking. I was told by my GP it would be 3 years to see a rheumatologist. Yep folks, THREE YEARS just to have an initial consultation with a rheumatologist. To those responsible, hang your heads in absolute shame.
31
10/12/2020 12:53:24 18 9
bbc
They new a pandemic was 'when' not 'if'. They had operation Cygnus and one before that 'Wintergreen'(?) and did nothing. Short term politics?
372
10/12/2020 13:56:55 1 1
bbc
As well covid hit UK month(s) after it hit SE Asia.
Ukgov had months to watch, learn, copy, improve on SE Asia response.
Also SARs, Mers etc data and actions were available as models.
Ukgov 60,000 dead, 12% gdp fall.
Taiwan just 7 dead, 2% gdp fall.
Look at Japan, S Korea, ozz, nz.
UK will also have long covid afflicted to deal with.. I think another 60,000. Bbc seems not to report
701
10/12/2020 17:15:18 1 0
bbc
If local Council invested in new snow ploughs, gritting lorries and salt which was not used for the next ten years, you'd be up in arms. How much outcry would the British have generated if the govt had warehouses of PPE and ventilators, which were not used, had to be chucked when past use-by date, plus enough staff, who spent time doing nothing at all, just in case, for ten years with no virus?
32
10/12/2020 12:54:23 4 3
bbc
...I've been told that most people won't remember that it was Maggie Thatcher who promised "The NHS is safe with us" - that background against which recent Conservative starvation of funding and mismanagement should be judged

If we don't hold these buggers to account they'll continue to get away with it scot free...until the moment their public lives end and they take a lucrative consultancy role
580
10/12/2020 15:34:53 0 0
bbc
Maggie Thatcher is dead, and had been out of power for decades before that. Was it really not possible for any government since hers, regardless of political colour, to deal with the NHS. What some mad old bat said 30-odd years ago is irrelevant. Surprised someone doesn't post Winston flaming Churchill's opinion....
22
KRM
10/12/2020 12:49:58 2 3
bbc
Just had a letter saying my appointment to get ears cleared of wax is likely to be a two year wait !
33
10/12/2020 12:55:36 3 0
bbc
pardon?
34
10/12/2020 12:56:38 66 11
bbc
How can there be 4.4M people waiting for routine care. What was the NHS doing before C19? I can answer that as I have been waiting a stupidly long time. What is the point of the Nightingale hospitals? Why not use those just for Covid and then regular hospitals do the normal stuff. The NHS wastes resources and blames it on underfunding. Check out OECD health spending figures.
48
10/12/2020 13:01:50 65 5
bbc
Where do you think the staff will come from fpr the Nightingale Hospitals?
The gov knew full well they couldn't staff them when they built them but it was a good PR exercise. NHS gets plenty of money but is mismanaged by senior managers
84
10/12/2020 13:07:59 4 10
bbc
The OECD figues show the UK is 17th globally and spends considerably less per head than our European neighbours and approx 60% less than the USA per person (4.5k USD vs 11.5k USD). So yes, the NHS is underfunded thanks to 10 years of Tory austerity. You did actually read the chart?
91
10/12/2020 13:10:03 7 7
bbc
Ypu will find in the fullness of time that the Nightingale "Hospitals" were another Tory friends Disaster Capitalism scam. They will never open because there are NO staff.
108
10/12/2020 13:12:55 4 1
bbc
Whats the % of 64million people is 4.4M? about 8% of the population waiting? I wonder how many died?
147
10/12/2020 13:20:15 7 8
bbc
They don't have the staff since the EU nurses started leaving....
506
10/12/2020 14:57:48 1 0
bbc
What a ridiculous question.

Do you expect there to be no waiting list at all?

As soon as someone has a problem, off you pop to hospital, in and out the next day.

4.4million - how many are seen within a month? a week? they're still on a "waiting list"
651
10/12/2020 16:32:19 0 0
bbc
They don’t have the staff got Nightingales..... they were ‘seconded’ from other hospitals who then shut down treatment of ‘other’ specialties.
35
10/12/2020 12:56:42 41 18
bbc
Not the fault of Covid, the fault of governments.
612
10/12/2020 16:11:00 4 2
bbc
It is a typically BBC headline distortion.

They could have reported that of the 4.4m on waiting lists, 150,000 (3%) were now having to wait more than a year.

Instead they report that waiting lists over a year are 100 times higher.

Bosth are selective didtortions - but balanced jounalism it certainly is not!
36
10/12/2020 12:57:25 6 6
bbc
There's no doubt that we're in a dire situation and the delays to peoples' medical treatment is awful, worsened by 10 years of savage cuts.
The way Covid is being dealt with on a macro level is just as concerning. Bar yesterday's muted report on allergic responses to the vaccine, there's been no other mention of concerns on how fast it was approved etc all week in all the media. A bit Orwellian..
30
10/12/2020 12:52:00 17 11
bbc
I suppose the compassionate people of Poland have saved a few euros for their health service by banning abortions
37
10/12/2020 12:58:26 5 23
bbc
Should we follow the "civilised western world" by aborting the most innocent ones- the unborn. Over 200 000 abortions in UK. Every single year! You call it compassion or the culture of death?
70
AJ
10/12/2020 13:05:41 1 4
bbc
Compassion
621
10/12/2020 16:14:49 0 0
bbc
............the argument can be the other way too. By not aborting some we are condeming them to hardship and 'difficult' lives.
718
10/12/2020 17:35:28 1 0
bbc
absolutely stupid and meaningless comment, almost laughable...
38
10/12/2020 12:58:32 50 9
bbc
New game for Xmas, Find the GP and Dentist
47
10/12/2020 13:01:49 18 10
bbc
dentist? they are all private now . more money i suppose. cant blame em. money makes the world go around.
262
10/12/2020 13:38:42 3 3
bbc
Have you picked up a phone. I have had no trouble getting a phone or video consult. I would not want to share a crowded waiting room full of people who may have Covid and can’t even be bothered to wear a mask.
39
10/12/2020 12:58:51 7 1
bbc
i was told the waiting time for a hernia op was 7 months this was 6 years ago now. i waited 13 months then chased them up then told people way behind me on the list had their ops done. no reason given they justed passed the buck . it was their error. no apology no nothing. as i stated this was way before this awful virus. i can understand the issues now but no excuse 6 years ago. not impressed.
51
10/12/2020 13:02:45 8 1
bbc
Totally unaccountable - there's no excuse. It's just really poor culture, poor management and poor performance management.
329
10/12/2020 13:47:31 0 0
bbc
And you waited that long before checking. Of course they passed you by because you obviously don't care about yourself.
11
10/12/2020 12:45:54 29 10
bbc
Wonder happens if there was a national disaster - well- other than this one?
40
10/12/2020 12:59:11 15 6
bbc
The only disaster is the way in which the government have managed their reaction to Covid.

They have been so typically linear in their approach to this, it was Covid or nothing... completely disregarding ALL other diseases, both physical and mental.
689
10/12/2020 17:06:38 1 0
bbc
Catch 22 - the population/press will make a fuss if precautions are taken, the rest will fuss if it isn't. Maybe this pandemic will teach governments and authorities, not to mention supermarket managers, what to do next time, and there will definitely be a next time. Btw, France is no better than the UK, neither is Spain, but the BBC only focusses on UK and USA (the latter is a disaster).
9
10/12/2020 12:45:04 209 22
bbc
What NHS ? have you tried to see a GP or dentist lately?
41
10/12/2020 12:59:11 118 9
bbc
My 90 year old father-in-law keeps requiring the doctor. Can we get them to come out to see him?

Not a chance

The last time they simply sent him a prescription for antibiotics. A day or so later he'd deteriorated to the point he was talking to his wife (who had died 15 years ago).

A day in the hospital before being booted out (because of Corona beds - but no test) back home...

Priceless
266
10/12/2020 13:39:23 11 25
bbc
The price of Tory austerity and years of underinvestment and outsourcing of the easy treatments to private hospitals
405
10/12/2020 14:08:48 15 6
bbc
I'd like to see proof that your GP was shut. Most GPs worked harder than ever due to them doing their normal workload, and also picking up the pieces after the hospitals became no-go.

Remote consultations were used where possible to limit the spread of Covid-19.
I'm sure GPs are very sorry if a call rather than a direct face-to-face talk didn't satisfy your overwhelming sense of entitlement.
407
10/12/2020 14:09:32 8 6
bbc
I lost my mother with a very similar story. I have the utmost admiration for the front line hospital staff battling covid but I have lost all respect for GP's. Mine and my parents GP's have been in hiding since March watching the pandemic unfold from behind their sofas. The GP's I have contact with should hang their heads in shame!
10
10/12/2020 12:45:25 114 38
bbc
Why NHS is so sacred to you, Britons? Why are you so proud of it? What did work in Clement's times does not work now. NHS needs some kind of shock therapy.There are better national health services in most of the western countries. Today NHS executives come to Gdansk to learn( sic!) how to run HS effectively. Look at German, Swedish model. NHS is overfunded yet outdated with massive problems.
42
10/12/2020 12:59:19 5 4
bbc
Well said absolutely correct.
43
10/12/2020 12:59:44 0 4
bbc
I had my operation cancelled. I have decided too go private. I will have too pay.
57
10/12/2020 13:03:59 4 4
bbc
You should also pay for English Lessons.
64
jjs
10/12/2020 13:05:13 0 2
bbc
No you wont pay! You already paid by being part of the NHS. Have you gone soft? You go to the hospital or GP and demand the op. This is B S. You are worth more than to be treated like garbage. Stay safe. Sock it too them.
66
10/12/2020 13:05:15 2 0
bbc
i think it is sad when people have to go private due to the pain level and in many cases its their nest egg that is used. thats the situation now i dont believe it will improve.it seems to be survival of the fittest.
152
10/12/2020 13:09:04 0 0
bbc
Sorry to hear that
44
10/12/2020 13:00:13 54 13
bbc
If the NHS was a commercial entity, it would be swiftly going the same way as Arcadia. Yes, it needs more people etc. but the way the whole 'business' is operated needs to be looked at, from logistics to front line; save money before investing or at least a balance. E.g. three hospitals in my area, they all wear different uniforms, one uniform for all would surely save millions?
67
10/12/2020 13:05:20 14 2
bbc
Take a look at the 'Mutuales' system that works very well in France and Belgium. Way to go?
318
10/12/2020 13:45:50 0 0
bbc
Yes spending money on buying everyone the same uniform (so buying more) will def cut costs in the short term.
538
10/12/2020 15:10:35 1 0
bbc
If the NHS was a commercial entity hospitals would look like 5 star hotels, you'd have your own room, immediate treatment.

And all this, for the low, low price of total bankruptcy for the average person.

Can't afford it? We don't care, we're a commercial business, not some kind of national service that exists because the average citizen has the smallest amount of empathy. Go die in the streets
623
JT
10/12/2020 16:15:10 1 0
bbc
Maybe if the NHS Trusts weren't forced to compete with one another in an artificially created market, rather than co-operate with one another in a joined up system, things would be different . . .
748
10/12/2020 19:57:33 0 0
bbc
Your right, its a National Health Service, so every thing should be the same.
They could save more cash and employ more people by building and running their own factories that provide consumables at cost price. This would include cardboard bedpans, urine bottles etc. Cleaning wipes and drapes for the operating tables.
It would save a fortune, but there are to many fingers in to many pies.
45
10/12/2020 13:00:14 39 11
bbc
"The number of long waits is now at its highest level since 2008."

Back to where they were under Labour then.
50
10/12/2020 13:02:37 33 1
bbc
dose not matter who is in power they all lie.
417
10/12/2020 14:17:59 1 0
bbc
It’s much much worse
6
NGB
10/12/2020 12:43:14 133 39
bbc
So we have an NHS that costs tens of billions, employs hundreds of thousands and gets overwhelmed if more than a tiny number of us get seriously ill at once. What a shambles!
46
10/12/2020 13:00:16 16 7
bbc
Tiny number? Tens of billions? Hundreds of thousands? Just fling ridiculous non factual claims about why don't you? It costs £129 billion, and actually employs 1.5 million staff, when there are not loads of vacancies and the Tories are not cutting the workforce and budget, as they had done consistently for ten years before the covid crisis, which has caused the "tiny number" of 62thousand deaths
643
10/12/2020 16:26:46 0 1
bbc
Perhaps something that costs £129 billion and employs 1.5 million staff yet still makes people wait months and months for treatment (even before Covid) might actually be inefficient? What's your solution? Throw even more money at it?
649
10/12/2020 16:29:41 0 1
bbc
That demonstrates that its a very large organisation that consumes a significant proportion of the country’s income
And being funded by the taxpayer, most of whom can’t afford to pay for both the NHS and to go private rightly complain and criticise when it doesn’t meet their expectations of health care
38
10/12/2020 12:58:32 50 9
bbc
New game for Xmas, Find the GP and Dentist
47
10/12/2020 13:01:49 18 10
bbc
dentist? they are all private now . more money i suppose. cant blame em. money makes the world go around.
562
10/12/2020 15:24:29 0 0
bbc
I went private years ago, my old practice closed down completely for the first lockdown. After that you could get routine visits but treatment? No, we are only working two weeks ahead. Changed my dentist to a local one who was working and did an excellent job.
679
10/12/2020 16:56:02 0 3
bbc
Due TO EXCESSIVE COSTS ,,at DENTISTS I CANNOT AFFORD THEM ON STATE PENSION!! 50 odd? for check up HA,HA HAVE NOT BEEN IN 8 YEARS ,and probably will not in the next,, if granted the privilege..
762
11/12/2020 09:17:09 0 0
bbc
Murder makes the money work.
34
10/12/2020 12:56:38 66 11
bbc
How can there be 4.4M people waiting for routine care. What was the NHS doing before C19? I can answer that as I have been waiting a stupidly long time. What is the point of the Nightingale hospitals? Why not use those just for Covid and then regular hospitals do the normal stuff. The NHS wastes resources and blames it on underfunding. Check out OECD health spending figures.
48
10/12/2020 13:01:50 65 5
bbc
Where do you think the staff will come from fpr the Nightingale Hospitals?
The gov knew full well they couldn't staff them when they built them but it was a good PR exercise. NHS gets plenty of money but is mismanaged by senior managers
141
10/12/2020 13:18:29 10 4
bbc
Mismanaged by senior managers? Was it not DHSC and Johnsons idea to build the Nightingales, knowing that there was a desperate shortage of nurses? And why did the NHS Block book all private hospital beds and then not use them? Absolute incompetence.
528
10/12/2020 15:05:08 2 3
bbc
Doctors tried, and failed miserably, to manage healthcare budgets
542
10/12/2020 15:11:36 3 1
bbc
Things go well - all due to our wonderful NHS. Things go wrong - blame Boris.
618
JT
10/12/2020 16:13:16 0 0
bbc
And no doubt some of their mates got paid for building them !
675
10/12/2020 16:51:57 0 0
bbc
ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!
694
10/12/2020 17:10:41 1 0
bbc
The staff for the nightingale hospitals can come from those departments that have done sweet fa for several months now. When all non essential operations are cancelled that is a heck of a lot of nurses and doctors freed up. Ditto preventative medicine chemo', physio, dermatology. And as my GPs have been in hiding since March they could actually work there and earn their salaries for a change.
49
10/12/2020 13:02:13 16 4
bbc
Someone I know has been trying to get an appointment at our local GP for weeks now.

They've been calling every day for 3 weeks and are barely able to get through since the lines are so busy and when they do get through the doctor(s) are all booked up.

Our GP usually has 3 doctors on call, yet for some reason, during covid, it has only been one doctor on call per week.

Utter Shambles.
104
10/12/2020 13:11:52 10 1
bbc
And I can just walk into my GP in Germany, be seen within 20 minutes and get a referral to a specialist who I saw the next week. What has gone wrong with the NHS?
258
10/12/2020 13:38:29 1 0
bbc
Takes 10 minutes where I live.
375
10/12/2020 13:57:54 1 0
bbc
No problems getting an appointment where I live. Our GP has been most helpful.
45
10/12/2020 13:00:14 39 11
bbc
"The number of long waits is now at its highest level since 2008."

Back to where they were under Labour then.
50
10/12/2020 13:02:37 33 1
bbc
dose not matter who is in power they all lie.
39
10/12/2020 12:58:51 7 1
bbc
i was told the waiting time for a hernia op was 7 months this was 6 years ago now. i waited 13 months then chased them up then told people way behind me on the list had their ops done. no reason given they justed passed the buck . it was their error. no apology no nothing. as i stated this was way before this awful virus. i can understand the issues now but no excuse 6 years ago. not impressed.
51
10/12/2020 13:02:45 8 1
bbc
Totally unaccountable - there's no excuse. It's just really poor culture, poor management and poor performance management.
52
10/12/2020 13:03:26 4 3
bbc
Another non story...... What did you expect
123
10/12/2020 13:15:05 0 0
bbc
Selfish. Incapable of even imagining being in someone else's place.
6
NGB
10/12/2020 12:43:14 133 39
bbc
So we have an NHS that costs tens of billions, employs hundreds of thousands and gets overwhelmed if more than a tiny number of us get seriously ill at once. What a shambles!
53
10/12/2020 13:03:27 16 7
bbc
There were only a limited number of itu beds nationally before covid and a limited number of itu nurses, if you think you can improve things your quite welcome to do your nursing or medical school training.
Thanks for your help!!
524
10/12/2020 15:03:36 2 0
bbc
If We have limited number of itu beds nationally before covid and a limited number of itu nurses. Then why has the rest of the departments closed. + Doctors
17
10/12/2020 12:48:07 19 7
bbc
Let's not forget that in 2015 Jeremy Hunt promised 5000 extra GPs by 2020 & delivered none, ignored the recommendations of the 2016 pandemic planning exercise to stockpile PPE, took funding out of the Public Health Service so it became bound to fail under the pressure of C-19 and so ran the NHS that when C-19 arrived 10% of NHS jobs were vacant.

"The NHS is safe with us" - a Conservative promise.
54
10/12/2020 13:03:28 12 4
bbc
Was it any safer under Labour?
440
10/12/2020 14:25:28 0 0
bbc
Yes. Tories have defunded police and his through austerity
9
10/12/2020 12:45:04 209 22
bbc
What NHS ? have you tried to see a GP or dentist lately?
55
AJ
10/12/2020 13:03:49 20 9
bbc
Yes, had a GP consultation 3 weeks ago (everything now dealt with) and I've got a dentist appointment January.
56
10/12/2020 13:03:55 3 8
bbc
If we could ban everyone who refuses the C19 vaccine from elective surgery until we have herd immunity it would shorten the queue much quicker.
82
10/12/2020 13:07:35 3 0
bbc
What about those who cant currently take the vaccine as it causes an allergic reaction?

Personally I'd ban the NHS from performing all elective surgery, except for those that had medical need, eg women who had mastectomies, or other life threatening illnesses.
43
10/12/2020 12:59:44 0 4
bbc
I had my operation cancelled. I have decided too go private. I will have too pay.
57
10/12/2020 13:03:59 4 4
bbc
You should also pay for English Lessons.
6
NGB
10/12/2020 12:43:14 133 39
bbc
So we have an NHS that costs tens of billions, employs hundreds of thousands and gets overwhelmed if more than a tiny number of us get seriously ill at once. What a shambles!
58
10/12/2020 13:04:11 17 2
bbc
It didn't get overwhelmed, the strategy used was entirely wrong - they shut down EVERYTHING to free up every resource rather than managing it on a risk basis. Many staff were still in the same departments seeing a fraction of the patients they had previously. GPs/Dentists were shut down effectively rather than using risk based management of patient care.
208
10/12/2020 13:31:58 6 3
bbc
They did not shut down everything.
313
10/12/2020 13:44:49 0 4
bbc
Zat so? Mos innarestin. Appreciate your opinion on this. Great insight, love your energy. But - was you there, Charile? I was there, and I didn't see you there. Was you there?
446
10/12/2020 14:29:06 1 0
bbc
One might say that the strategy used was entirely wrong if it DID get overwhelmed. Care to explain your reasoning that overwhelming the health system would be a good thing?
10
10/12/2020 12:45:25 114 38
bbc
Why NHS is so sacred to you, Britons? Why are you so proud of it? What did work in Clement's times does not work now. NHS needs some kind of shock therapy.There are better national health services in most of the western countries. Today NHS executives come to Gdansk to learn( sic!) how to run HS effectively. Look at German, Swedish model. NHS is overfunded yet outdated with massive problems.
59
10/12/2020 12:53:44 7 1
bbc
Complete different demographics, population control on a small island with limited space is more of an issue
60
10/12/2020 13:04:20 8 2
bbc
Who'd have thought it?
61
10/12/2020 13:04:32 45 9
bbc
Goodbye National Health Service
Hello National Covid Service
72
10/12/2020 13:06:09 27 7
bbc
Lets all clap!
681
10/12/2020 16:57:04 0 0
bbc
WRONG! NO HEALTH SYSTEM??
10
10/12/2020 12:45:25 114 38
bbc
Why NHS is so sacred to you, Britons? Why are you so proud of it? What did work in Clement's times does not work now. NHS needs some kind of shock therapy.There are better national health services in most of the western countries. Today NHS executives come to Gdansk to learn( sic!) how to run HS effectively. Look at German, Swedish model. NHS is overfunded yet outdated with massive problems.
62
10/12/2020 13:04:41 27 3
bbc
The media and politicians feed us a diatribe about the selfless angels in the NHS

1) NHS staff vary from awful to amazing - just like in any other organisation
2) NHS staff are doing a job to get paid - they are not volunteers
3) Public sector T&C's in general are excellent - pensions, performance, holidays, job security

NHS staff are just people doing a job, they deserve respect, not adulation
9
10/12/2020 12:45:04 209 22
bbc
What NHS ? have you tried to see a GP or dentist lately?
63
10/12/2020 13:05:01 28 6
bbc
Our local GP usually has 3 doctors on call, yet for some reason there's only 1 per week at the moment. And they don't even see patients in person anymore.

It's a complete shambles. Trying to describe your issues over the phone is just awkward and feels impersonal.

You can't get properly assessed.
43
10/12/2020 12:59:44 0 4
bbc
I had my operation cancelled. I have decided too go private. I will have too pay.
64
jjs
10/12/2020 13:05:13 0 2
bbc
No you wont pay! You already paid by being part of the NHS. Have you gone soft? You go to the hospital or GP and demand the op. This is B S. You are worth more than to be treated like garbage. Stay safe. Sock it too them.
107
ME
10/12/2020 13:12:51 0 0
bbc
He didn’t say what the operation was for - could have been an in growing toenail or something non critical
65
10/12/2020 13:05:15 67 4
bbc
Protect the NHS, what about treating the public.
229
10/12/2020 13:34:52 13 29
bbc
They are
308
10/12/2020 13:44:34 2 0
bbc
Why didn’t the public show up?
755
10/12/2020 22:38:52 0 0
bbc
GPs are the gateway to the NHS - but since the GPs shut up shot and went into hiding (insert excuses here - you're all "working from home" nobody can get referred into hospital even if they had clinics open.

I work in the NHS, I have not worked from home at any point while a majority of those around me have, it's been a massive excuse to not work for many. GET BACK TO WORK.
43
10/12/2020 12:59:44 0 4
bbc
I had my operation cancelled. I have decided too go private. I will have too pay.
66
10/12/2020 13:05:15 2 0
bbc
i think it is sad when people have to go private due to the pain level and in many cases its their nest egg that is used. thats the situation now i dont believe it will improve.it seems to be survival of the fittest.
44
10/12/2020 13:00:13 54 13
bbc
If the NHS was a commercial entity, it would be swiftly going the same way as Arcadia. Yes, it needs more people etc. but the way the whole 'business' is operated needs to be looked at, from logistics to front line; save money before investing or at least a balance. E.g. three hospitals in my area, they all wear different uniforms, one uniform for all would surely save millions?
67
10/12/2020 13:05:20 14 2
bbc
Take a look at the 'Mutuales' system that works very well in France and Belgium. Way to go?
272
10/12/2020 13:40:16 3 0
bbc
Cost you an awful lot more money. Are you willing or able to pay ?
389
10/12/2020 14:01:48 1 1
bbc
This is the bbc!!
They only navel gaze UK issues.
715
10/12/2020 17:33:02 1 0
bbc
I live in France, but a mutuelle for a retired couple costs us nearly 2k€ per year, and covers the 20% of charges which France doesn't reimburse to us. There are still waiting lists, shorter than UK admittedly. Treatment and drugs are effectively privatised, so is testing, which means profit margin increases prices at each level. Paying to visit GP does make you take it seriously, though.
68
10/12/2020 13:05:24 8 3
bbc
A national disgrace. Long after Covid has gone, people will wonder what the Tories did with all that tax they paid.
87
10/12/2020 13:08:56 7 1
bbc
You can blame the government (this one and previous) all you like, but the problems and blame lie within the NHS. Too many managers and note enough dedicated staff.
145
10/12/2020 13:20:00 1 0
bbc
Some people have very short memories.

It did cost a lot to pay peoples wages, give rent & rates breaks, fund over a million new claims for benefit, build nightingale centres, buy loads of new health equipment & generally tried to prevent mass unemployment, homelessness & death in a closed down economy.

And for what?

To save taxpayers lives!

What a disgraceful waste. ;)
26
10/12/2020 12:51:19 180 35
bbc
We were told to protect the NHS, we did and this is the result. Remember that the NHS is now our official religion, it's more important than anything else in our lives and if people have to die to protect it then so be it. Bend the knee to our new god...
69
10/12/2020 13:05:41 185 7
bbc
The NHS didn't actually ask to be protected, we want to treat patients, but they were told not to turn up and we were told to shut down in case we were needed.. even though it was obviously we weren't at the time.

It was a complete over reaction in part driven by the media who will now pass the buck as much as possible.
124
10/12/2020 13:15:07 32 2
bbc
I'd love to see more NHS/ex NHS speak out about their experiences (not just COVID front line staff).

The NHS has removed 13,000 hospital beds this year (to make COVID space). There are 670k nurses in the UK, compared to 540k ten years ago.

Parts of the NHS have had a dreadful time with COVID but there always has been more capacity than we were led to believe.
136
10/12/2020 13:17:17 37 3
bbc
The media should be first up against the wall when this is over...
142
10/12/2020 13:18:35 4 0
bbc
Who gave the orders?
244
10/12/2020 13:36:56 23 1
bbc
I agree Phil. Hospitals in my area were virtually empty, and still are, supposedly for the thousands of cases that never came. I don't know what game the government, and senior NHS managers are playing with people's health, but it is a total disgrace. Massive over reaction, and because they don't seem to have learned from it, many are starting to think it's deliberate.
271
10/12/2020 13:40:14 22 1
bbc
The worst part is that the UK Gov had the summer and bags of data to come up with a strategy to protect the vulnerable and the NHS other than locking down and chucking away money left right and centre following a populist media driven agenda. The best decisions are not instantly popular and generally don't lead to re election. Westminster is full of weaklings on all sides and we suffer for it.
297
10/12/2020 13:43:07 5 2
bbc
Well Taiwan managed.
Just 7 covid deaths. Just 2% gdp drop.
Ukgov 60,000 deaths, 12% gdp fall.
See s Korea, Japan, ozz, nz.
Also ukgov had 11months now.. Surely could have designed, manufactured (lol) some form of reuseable, comfortable biosuit for use by medics etc so that they could see patients. Along lines of plastic bubble helmet, battery powered filters etc.
512
Dee
10/12/2020 14:59:30 6 2
bbc
It wasn't the media discharging infected patients back into care homes back in March and April, it was the NHS led by dangerously incompetent politicians and managers. When medicine is corrupted by politics, it's a disaster for all.
672
10/12/2020 16:45:21 0 2
bbc
That is the whole point;

DO WHAT IS RIGHT FOR THE PATIENT, NOT WHAT SOME BUREAUCRAT TELLS YOU TO DO !!!

ITS ABOUT BEING PAID TO MANAGE !!!
685
10/12/2020 17:01:42 1 1
bbc
At last some truth. The deaths that will follow from not being treated or diagnosed will far outweigh the real Covid deaths.......not the ones "with" Covid. The inquest in to how the government and their so called experts handled this will be very interesting.
773
11/12/2020 13:35:47 0 0
bbc
OK, I'll give you my surgery number and see how you get on.
I've pretty much given up.
Annual blood tests and medication reviews all cancelled and an important cardiac outpatient cancelled in July with no sniff of an appointment in 2021.
The only thing I have had was a flu jab and that was in a tent.
Should we follow the "civilised western world" by aborting the most innocent ones- the unborn. Over 200 000 abortions in UK. Every single year! You call it compassion or the culture of death?
70
AJ
10/12/2020 13:05:41 1 4
bbc
Compassion
71
10/12/2020 13:05:50 20 5
bbc
Went to the Docs yesterday with a sports injury. I was asked what I wanted to happen, thought that was the doctors job to diagnose and recommend, after all they spent 5 years training for this. He offered me stronger pain relief rather than sending me for an investigative x ray. Got the x ray in the end but the referral system at the mo is a joke.
98
ME
10/12/2020 13:11:01 8 20
bbc
So you actually think a sports injury is important at this point in time - I have one but figure there are people with more important issues - still, as long as YOU are OK that,s the important thing - unbelievable- complaining about not being able to get a referral for a self inflicted injury in the middle of a pandemic
253
10/12/2020 13:37:52 4 1
bbc
Wake up, the Dr. is telling you there's nothing wrong with you.
422
10/12/2020 14:20:06 1 1
bbc
The clue is in the name - general practitioner. I’ve had back issues, I went to a physio as they specialise in the issue that I had.

Do you think GP’s are able to do absolutely everything?
61
10/12/2020 13:04:32 45 9
bbc
Goodbye National Health Service
Hello National Covid Service
72
10/12/2020 13:06:09 27 7
bbc
Lets all clap!
7
10/12/2020 12:43:24 135 15
bbc
Coronavirus - The new excuse when something goes wrong...
73
10/12/2020 13:06:18 61 39
bbc
Yep. See also : Bojo blaming No Deal chaos on Covid.
361
10/12/2020 13:54:39 1 4
bbc
True when Barnier caught Covid he only isolated for a couple of weeks instead of a couple of years I wonder what progress we would have made?
636
10/12/2020 16:21:57 1 0
bbc
And you blaming everything on Johnson.
74
10/12/2020 13:06:25 32 2
bbc
Yes this is what happens when NHS trusts cancel all operations
684
10/12/2020 17:00:41 4 1
bbc
IN OUT HEALTH TRUST,,,, THE BOARD ARE ALL PAYED MASSIVE SALARIES, MANAGERS ON MASSIVE PAY,, BUT NOT AT WORK ,,WORK FROM HOME IF YOU GET CAUGHT?? OTHER WISE DO LITTLE??
75
10/12/2020 13:06:40 9 2
bbc
"That’s the standard technique of privatization: defund, make sure things don’t work, people get angry, you hand it over to private capital." - N Chomsky
100
10/12/2020 13:11:09 4 0
bbc
And wait for it still to be funded by tax payer and cost more
27
10/12/2020 12:51:37 8 2
bbc
In other news... the moon orbits the earth roughly once every four weeks and it tends to go dark before morning.
76
10/12/2020 13:07:00 1 3
bbc
0/10 for originality
77
10/12/2020 13:07:05 64 2
bbc
What do you expect when you stop all non essential surgery because of COVID-19
386
10/12/2020 14:01:00 5 15
bbc
But Taiwan didn't shutdown over covid.
Hospitals, hi street, cinemas, bars, public mass events all open. I was there Feb to June. Apparently no bbc though.
S Korea, Japan, ozz, nz?
In 11 months why didn't NHS, ukgov design reusable ppe or even comfortable, reusable biosuits.. Plastic bubbles, washable, battery powered filters.
78
10/12/2020 13:07:13 0 6
bbc
By Jingo, this is utterly disgraceful.

My uncle the right hon Doctor Smythe-Sinjin-Fawkes-Smith was able to see my straight away in Harley Street to cure my champers hangover.

Don't be such a bunch of whining ninnies and let's raise the regiments - By Jingo we'll show them.
22
KRM
10/12/2020 12:49:58 2 3
bbc
Just had a letter saying my appointment to get ears cleared of wax is likely to be a two year wait !
79
10/12/2020 13:07:22 0 0
bbc
ehhhea
80
10/12/2020 13:07:27 92 11
bbc
Will the stats ever be published.

How many died of Corona virus vs how many died of other causes as a result of Corona virus restrictions.
94
10/12/2020 13:10:39 64 12
bbc
Of course not as it doesn't fit the narrative
101
10/12/2020 13:11:14 3 14
bbc
the illionth time

if you can devise a method of going round every single individual cell in the human body, and work out exactly what micro biology process caused them to malfunction or die, then you might get very rich

until we have a video camera the size of a nanometer and enough resources to go through every single cell and analyse what happened, the information isn't available
150
10/12/2020 13:20:32 4 0
bbc
My mother for one
176
10/12/2020 13:27:05 7 0
bbc
Numbers of excess deaths are published continuously. Every year we see the excess death numbers over the winter due to flu.
388
10/12/2020 14:01:37 3 0
bbc
The ONS/Health have figures on types of deaths going back years you can make your own comparisons if you like
557
10/12/2020 15:21:21 6 0
bbc
We will never know how many died of Covid-19 because the data was never available. GP's certificates said Covid-19 without tests, tests within 28 days you died of Covid-19 but it was probably your heart etc.
610
10/12/2020 16:08:39 6 0
bbc
No, in the UK we officially record a Covid death as anyone testing positive within 30 days of death. The actual cause can be literally anything, even gunshot to the head and we will still add them to the list. Other countries don't even bother to clarify.
669
10/12/2020 16:47:56 4 0
bbc
I AM OF THE OPINION MANY DEATHS NOW ,,,ARE RELATED TO COVID?? and are not really anything, to do with Covid, good excuse??
22
KRM
10/12/2020 12:49:58 2 3
bbc
Just had a letter saying my appointment to get ears cleared of wax is likely to be a two year wait !
81
AJ
10/12/2020 13:07:30 0 0
bbc
Try Otex eardrops - absolutely brilliant.
56
10/12/2020 13:03:55 3 8
bbc
If we could ban everyone who refuses the C19 vaccine from elective surgery until we have herd immunity it would shorten the queue much quicker.
82
10/12/2020 13:07:35 3 0
bbc
What about those who cant currently take the vaccine as it causes an allergic reaction?

Personally I'd ban the NHS from performing all elective surgery, except for those that had medical need, eg women who had mastectomies, or other life threatening illnesses.
29
10/12/2020 12:51:50 20 10
bbc
Agree - total reform needed. Too many lazy, unaccountable people in NHS at all levels from porter staff, nurses, consultants through to managers. Too much waste, and wasteful people. Too many malingerers. Yes, there are many great people in the NHS, but if was a private company, they would remain + be rewarded (with more like them recruited), and the rest of the deadwood lead-swingers rooted out.
83
10/12/2020 13:07:56 5 5
bbc
Go and buy some private medical insurance then.
403
10/12/2020 14:07:52 1 4
bbc
I have. As well as paying large amounts of tax revenue to pay for my public health provision. So I'm forced to pay twice then. Say, you're not one of those lazy malingerers yourself are you?
34
10/12/2020 12:56:38 66 11
bbc
How can there be 4.4M people waiting for routine care. What was the NHS doing before C19? I can answer that as I have been waiting a stupidly long time. What is the point of the Nightingale hospitals? Why not use those just for Covid and then regular hospitals do the normal stuff. The NHS wastes resources and blames it on underfunding. Check out OECD health spending figures.
84
10/12/2020 13:07:59 4 10
bbc
The OECD figues show the UK is 17th globally and spends considerably less per head than our European neighbours and approx 60% less than the USA per person (4.5k USD vs 11.5k USD). So yes, the NHS is underfunded thanks to 10 years of Tory austerity. You did actually read the chart?
529
10/12/2020 15:05:19 6 2
bbc
Statistics, eh! Look at just one - the USA. Most of that money goes to private businesses and hence in profits for shareholders. The NHS is not "underfunded", it is under-managed by a surplus of managerial staff who couldn't run the proverbial drinks party, and hamstrung by moronic PPI agreements designed to shovel public funds into private businesses.
85
10/12/2020 13:08:00 2 5
bbc
Gp service has been very good, prefer telephone consultation.
the rest of the NHS stinks, private health insurance has been a godsend
5
10/12/2020 12:42:40 52 10
bbc
If these patients aren’t being seen, what have the staff been doing? There weren’t all in ICU treating COVID patients, like the kissing GPs.
86
10/12/2020 13:08:41 48 4
bbc
Many NHS hospital staff who are not directly involved in treating patients with Covid-19 have been commenting for months on how quiet their wards have been.
68
10/12/2020 13:05:24 8 3
bbc
A national disgrace. Long after Covid has gone, people will wonder what the Tories did with all that tax they paid.
87
10/12/2020 13:08:56 7 1
bbc
You can blame the government (this one and previous) all you like, but the problems and blame lie within the NHS. Too many managers and note enough dedicated staff.
88
10/12/2020 13:09:15 4 8
bbc
Covid is manna from heaven for the Right Wing.

Tories have been defunding the NHS for years to work up an excuse to privatise swathes of it to Tory lackeys.

Now they can just blame Covid-19.
89
10/12/2020 13:09:52 18 4
bbc
All this to save the "most vulnerable" who still had a 98% survival rate if they contracted covid ??
109
10/12/2020 13:13:22 10 4
bbc
Yeah, needn't have closed the pubs either. What a complete fiasco! :(
90
10/12/2020 13:10:03 6 6
bbc
Well if you vote Tory what do you expect
34
10/12/2020 12:56:38 66 11
bbc
How can there be 4.4M people waiting for routine care. What was the NHS doing before C19? I can answer that as I have been waiting a stupidly long time. What is the point of the Nightingale hospitals? Why not use those just for Covid and then regular hospitals do the normal stuff. The NHS wastes resources and blames it on underfunding. Check out OECD health spending figures.
91
10/12/2020 13:10:03 7 7
bbc
Ypu will find in the fullness of time that the Nightingale "Hospitals" were another Tory friends Disaster Capitalism scam. They will never open because there are NO staff.
92
10/12/2020 13:10:12 5 1
bbc
Great plan to scrap the NHS?and get the private medical care like America, Wouldn't trust Hancock,..
119
10/12/2020 13:14:45 7 0
bbc
You really don't want the American system!
315
10/12/2020 13:45:16 0 0
bbc
Who is planning to scrap the NHS?
93
10/12/2020 13:10:14 9 7
bbc
As someone who is affected by this I blame the countless idiots who have flouted the rules from the beginning. I know this doesn't fit the narrative for some who's go-to is to blame Boris. Strange times we are living in when some in society cannot see what is right in front of their faces
235
10/12/2020 13:35:50 1 3
bbc
Well said sir !!
80
10/12/2020 13:07:27 92 11
bbc
Will the stats ever be published.

How many died of Corona virus vs how many died of other causes as a result of Corona virus restrictions.
94
10/12/2020 13:10:39 64 12
bbc
Of course not as it doesn't fit the narrative
394
10/12/2020 14:03:14 5 6
bbc
That's because you're too lazy to look at the stats that already published The figures are in the public domain so start looking instead of writing lazy comments
5
10/12/2020 12:42:40 52 10
bbc
If these patients aren’t being seen, what have the staff been doing? There weren’t all in ICU treating COVID patients, like the kissing GPs.
95
10/12/2020 12:56:05 21 1
bbc
I know a nurse who wasn't working on Covid wards who was often sent home as there was no patients on her ward. Still got paid. I know a doctor who also wasn't working on Covid patients who seemed to spend the whole day on WhatsApp sending silly videos and jokes. And what possible excuse was there for GP practices refusing to operate? There is no reason GP practices couldn't have stayed open.
287
10/12/2020 13:41:52 5 4
bbc
GPs are only closed to people with Covid symptoms. They are open but to limit the spread of Covid they are working on the phone or online.
96
10/12/2020 13:10:49 11 1
bbc
Then maybe the first round of vaccines should be given to all essential healthcare professionals who can start catching up on the huge backlog of operations, instead of to 90 year old's who will have the vaccine and go back home and sit in their house for the next few months.
97
10/12/2020 13:10:53 14 0
bbc
It would be interesting to know how many people have died indirectly from COVID.
111
10/12/2020 13:13:48 4 0
bbc
'Wonderif' that figure will get hidden underneath lies and obfuscation?
169
10/12/2020 13:14:21 1 0
bbc
The same number who have died directly of it. (or died of something else within 28 days of a covid test, according to the BBC)
71
10/12/2020 13:05:50 20 5
bbc
Went to the Docs yesterday with a sports injury. I was asked what I wanted to happen, thought that was the doctors job to diagnose and recommend, after all they spent 5 years training for this. He offered me stronger pain relief rather than sending me for an investigative x ray. Got the x ray in the end but the referral system at the mo is a joke.
98
ME
10/12/2020 13:11:01 8 20
bbc
So you actually think a sports injury is important at this point in time - I have one but figure there are people with more important issues - still, as long as YOU are OK that,s the important thing - unbelievable- complaining about not being able to get a referral for a self inflicted injury in the middle of a pandemic
133
10/12/2020 13:17:02 4 3
bbc
And mental health isn't important?
712
10/12/2020 17:24:20 1 0
bbc
It saddens me that people have thoroughly been duped into believing the non stop propaganda being peddled by the media. You included. Covid, a virus that kills a limited number by itself, is king it seems!
99
10/12/2020 13:11:01 5 3
bbc
They could utilise the nightingales, but there isn't enough available staff to do so. But of a white elephant. The NHS was not in danger of being overwhelmed the first time around.
106
10/12/2020 13:12:45 4 0
bbc
It's like insurance you hope you don't need it but when the time comes you are glad you have it.
724
10/12/2020 17:46:21 0 0
bbc
REDUCE THE WASTE ON MANAGEMENT!! PAY THE NURSES, AND Drs,, better and your problem will go away slowly
75
10/12/2020 13:06:40 9 2
bbc
"That’s the standard technique of privatization: defund, make sure things don’t work, people get angry, you hand it over to private capital." - N Chomsky
100
10/12/2020 13:11:09 4 0
bbc
And wait for it still to be funded by tax payer and cost more