B&Q owner Kingfisher to return £130m in Covid rates relief
07/12/2020 | news | business | 103
DIY specialist Kingfisher becomes the latest retailer to hand back support, taking the total to £2bn.
1
07/12/2020 13:02:14 6 8
bbc
I assume Waitrose did not take this relief? as they are notedly absent from the list of shops giving it back....
2
07/12/2020 13:05:41 11 1
bbc
They did and won't give it back.
3
BZ
07/12/2020 13:07:58 2 7
bbc
they already give back by running an ethical business that inspires us to want better from other companies
6
07/12/2020 13:13:59 5 3
bbc
Their John Lewis shops were badly hit.
1
07/12/2020 13:02:14 6 8
bbc
I assume Waitrose did not take this relief? as they are notedly absent from the list of shops giving it back....
2
07/12/2020 13:05:41 11 1
bbc
They did and won't give it back.
12
07/12/2020 13:23:33 2 1
bbc
Thanks, i've been looking for that but couldn't find anything.
Thanks also to the people that give a thumbs down to someone asking a question.....Your special.
21
Ish
07/12/2020 13:41:35 0 3
bbc
Are you absolutely sure about that?
1
07/12/2020 13:02:14 6 8
bbc
I assume Waitrose did not take this relief? as they are notedly absent from the list of shops giving it back....
3
BZ
07/12/2020 13:07:58 2 7
bbc
they already give back by running an ethical business that inspires us to want better from other companies
7
07/12/2020 13:14:49 6 3
bbc
Lol utter trash. Greedy taking hand out while they boomed. I think you might be thinking of thecCo-Op who try on any marketing ethical con line. Not Waitrose. They also have not yet joined in either, last I heard. So much for marketing ethics!
4
07/12/2020 13:08:55 6 4
bbc
Good response from them, perhaps next all media outlets who've profited from pathetic scaremongering reporting this year can return their profits next (one can dream).
36
Ben
07/12/2020 15:32:48 1 0
bbc
Return their profits to who? Advertisement firms, investors, subscribers and customers? Their reporting was dreadful, but they're business'. I think it's silly to consider them as anything else.
5
07/12/2020 13:11:05 11 3
bbc
Good to see another sector now joining in not taking hand outs that weren't needed. A bit less borrowing needed.

They may not hit the headlines but there are huge numbers of individual owned or tiny shops in the food sector particularly, that boomed in this crisis. About time the bbc did some real research rather than print big company press releases. Name and shame the small takers as wel as big
1
07/12/2020 13:02:14 6 8
bbc
I assume Waitrose did not take this relief? as they are notedly absent from the list of shops giving it back....
6
07/12/2020 13:13:59 5 3
bbc
Their John Lewis shops were badly hit.
11
07/12/2020 13:18:52 3 3
bbc
Sainsbury paid back their food operation hand outs, but just kept their Argos related bit. No excuses for John Lewis not to do the same. Cheating cross subsidising hanging on to tax payer money to fund a failing department store operation.
3
BZ
07/12/2020 13:07:58 2 7
bbc
they already give back by running an ethical business that inspires us to want better from other companies
7
07/12/2020 13:14:49 6 3
bbc
Lol utter trash. Greedy taking hand out while they boomed. I think you might be thinking of thecCo-Op who try on any marketing ethical con line. Not Waitrose. They also have not yet joined in either, last I heard. So much for marketing ethics!
64
07/12/2020 17:19:50 1 1
bbc
try checking facts before talking tripe. john lewis partnership has not boomed. 600million pound loss. staff on fairly low pay and no bonus next year. but hey lets kick them all out of a job...
8
MVP
07/12/2020 13:16:05 17 2
bbc
This is good PR from B&Q

The pressure is now on other retailers who have stayed open through the pandemic to follow
9
07/12/2020 13:17:38 12 1
bbc
Now if the estate agents who urged higher house prices who got rates relief paid money back, and the taxpayers get paid back the unnecessary £3.8 billion lost on a stamp duty holiday, which as predicted inflated even more asking prices.

I can understand chains with city centre stores predominantly, whose main customers use to be office workers who are now "working" from home, not repaying.
10
07/12/2020 13:18:09 5 8
bbc
I don't see Amazon's name on the list. Not that that surprises me.
14
07/12/2020 13:25:06 12 5
bbc
They received none. They have no 'retail, hospitality and leisure businesses' but warehouses and offices probably, which did not get the hand out. Best to keep off the cheap prejudice anti the future and how goods are now acquired in the world. Street shops were dying before covid, just too slowly.
15
07/12/2020 13:27:20 6 2
bbc
Because they didn't receive it. But don't let facts get in the way.
6
07/12/2020 13:13:59 5 3
bbc
Their John Lewis shops were badly hit.
11
07/12/2020 13:18:52 3 3
bbc
Sainsbury paid back their food operation hand outs, but just kept their Argos related bit. No excuses for John Lewis not to do the same. Cheating cross subsidising hanging on to tax payer money to fund a failing department store operation.
13
07/12/2020 13:24:04 2 3
bbc
Saw stand alone Argos shops open for collection during the recent 4 week close down
2
07/12/2020 13:05:41 11 1
bbc
They did and won't give it back.
12
07/12/2020 13:23:33 2 1
bbc
Thanks, i've been looking for that but couldn't find anything.
Thanks also to the people that give a thumbs down to someone asking a question.....Your special.
11
07/12/2020 13:18:52 3 3
bbc
Sainsbury paid back their food operation hand outs, but just kept their Argos related bit. No excuses for John Lewis not to do the same. Cheating cross subsidising hanging on to tax payer money to fund a failing department store operation.
13
07/12/2020 13:24:04 2 3
bbc
Saw stand alone Argos shops open for collection during the recent 4 week close down
23
Ish
07/12/2020 13:44:06 0 2
bbc
Were they? Are you sure about that?
10
07/12/2020 13:18:09 5 8
bbc
I don't see Amazon's name on the list. Not that that surprises me.
14
07/12/2020 13:25:06 12 5
bbc
They received none. They have no 'retail, hospitality and leisure businesses' but warehouses and offices probably, which did not get the hand out. Best to keep off the cheap prejudice anti the future and how goods are now acquired in the world. Street shops were dying before covid, just too slowly.
19
07/12/2020 13:37:43 2 1
bbc
Yes they did, however they have said they will be repaying £2,047,471
10
07/12/2020 13:18:09 5 8
bbc
I don't see Amazon's name on the list. Not that that surprises me.
15
07/12/2020 13:27:20 6 2
bbc
Because they didn't receive it. But don't let facts get in the way.
18
07/12/2020 13:36:46 2 3
bbc
Yes they did. Don't let ignorance get in the way of the truth.
16
07/12/2020 13:29:23 2 0
bbc
I should think so, because they were open, seems they were saying they were a essential service ??
17
07/12/2020 13:32:10 27 0
bbc
Thank you B&Q and thank you to the other stores that have given back their rate relief.
15
07/12/2020 13:27:20 6 2
bbc
Because they didn't receive it. But don't let facts get in the way.
18
07/12/2020 13:36:46 2 3
bbc
Yes they did. Don't let ignorance get in the way of the truth.
14
07/12/2020 13:25:06 12 5
bbc
They received none. They have no 'retail, hospitality and leisure businesses' but warehouses and offices probably, which did not get the hand out. Best to keep off the cheap prejudice anti the future and how goods are now acquired in the world. Street shops were dying before covid, just too slowly.
19
07/12/2020 13:37:43 2 1
bbc
Yes they did, however they have said they will be repaying £2,047,471
54
07/12/2020 16:22:49 0 0
bbc
Ah thanks for that snippet of info. A tiny few shops, never heard of them but I guess these big companies have all sorts of bits testing ideas. Good they paid back too.
10
07/12/2020 13:18:09 5 8
bbc
I don't see Amazon's name on the list. Not that that surprises me.
84
07/12/2020 21:44:32 0 1
bbc
Utter rubbish
2
07/12/2020 13:05:41 11 1
bbc
They did and won't give it back.
21
Ish
07/12/2020 13:41:35 0 3
bbc
Are you absolutely sure about that?
22
bdp
07/12/2020 13:42:48 12 8
bbc
And yet the middle to upper class stores like waitrose john Lewis and m &s and the coop that charges over the odds for most products are keeping there grubby little hands on their
63
07/12/2020 17:14:11 4 2
bbc
and another comment that doesnt care about facts. john lewis i believe has lost 600 million pounds this year. i guess you will be happy for them to make redundant lots of there low paid staff just to satisfy your hate
66
07/12/2020 17:52:11 0 0
bbc
Assume you've never been in a M&S stores. Did you know that they sell clothes as well & they make up the most floor space of their stores.
And that John Lewis is a department store where the food section is a very small part of the stores.
But hey, don't let reality get in the way of a moan.
Can't say why Co-op didn't or why £3.8 billion of taxpayers money used to inflate house prices
83
07/12/2020 21:42:50 0 0
bbc
Facts, facts, read about them before posting nonsense
97
AMc
08/12/2020 09:48:10 0 0
bbc
Oh bdp the clairvoyant, please enlighten us wise one, substantiate your comments with facts. Just how have the operating profits, balance sheets, Debt to Revenue, staffing levels, supply chains of M&S, John Lewis etc been affected compared to, e.g. Tesco?

Or are you so sad sitting in little sad bdp world that the best you can offer is based on companies that sell posh mince pies, PATHETIC
13
07/12/2020 13:24:04 2 3
bbc
Saw stand alone Argos shops open for collection during the recent 4 week close down
23
Ish
07/12/2020 13:44:06 0 2
bbc
Were they? Are you sure about that?
41
07/12/2020 15:49:32 2 0
bbc
Milton Keynes was open after many months.
Possibly with to run up to Christmas they could not afford to remain closed.
65
07/12/2020 17:46:58 1 0
bbc
Cheapside in City of London just one example
24
07/12/2020 13:49:43 23 1
bbc
Good to see big business doing what's right and having a moral compass. B&Q have done well during the pandemic and they are doing what is right and proper returning the business rate relief.
25
07/12/2020 14:03:10 9 6
bbc
Marks and Spencer have been open....this is a disgrace! Anyway they will never sell me anything again as I won't even buy a prawn sandwich in there. We should vote with our feet against these 'highwaymen and women' who distort the facts and should shop with those that aren't ripping us off...yes 'us' because we will pay for this tax relief eventually
68
07/12/2020 17:54:23 3 0
bbc
Have the non-food shop parts of their stores been open and have all their shops in city centres which office workers no longer frequent as "working"(sic) from home stayed open?
Certainly not the case near me
90
07/12/2020 23:59:43 1 0
bbc
"Anyway they will never sell me anything again as I won't even buy a prawn sandwich in there."

Good man.

More sandwiches for me then, plus not having to rub shoulders with haters.

M&S are a great business. Just not as successful as they used to be.
26
07/12/2020 14:28:19 2 7
bbc
Business always screaming how bad it is lol Government always falls for it.....as they have no spine....Tori is nothing as a Business lobby group...
27
07/12/2020 14:30:35 2 6
bbc
Tesco's got all the money a company which had a massive finance scandal with not much consequences for the managers.....all got their fat pensions still....all still serve as directors...
89
07/12/2020 23:57:08 1 0
bbc
Yeah lets close Tesco down, why not.

COVID, NO DEAL BREXIT, NO TESCO.

That will help the country won't it ?
28
07/12/2020 14:33:50 0 6
bbc
Many charities that run trading arms didn't qualify for this rate relief in the first place - they have had to pay their rates regardless of the fact they have had virtually no commercial income since March and little prospect until well into 2021. Help has not been consistently shared out.
55
07/12/2020 16:25:12 4 0
bbc
The vast majority of Charity shops do not pay business rates in the first place (under 15k per year RV) - they I believe would of got the 10k grant, the few bigger retail units probably fall in the 15-50k RV band and those receive a 90% discount and those units would of qualified for the 25k grant - so charities havnt done too badly.
29
07/12/2020 14:37:07 5 0
bbc
Pleased to see this- the big chains that have done well out of these odd circumstances should absolutely all do the same. The country is building up a debt ( rightly so to help) that will ultimately have to be dealt with- so repaying these tax concessions that were not necessary is welcomed. Should be enforced on those yet to do it
88
07/12/2020 23:55:43 0 1
bbc
You can't enforce people to pay back something they were offered unconditionally in the first place.

It would be like you asking for a donation to charity to be returned because one of the people the charity helped won £5000 on Thunderball.
96
AMc
08/12/2020 09:40:28 0 0
bbc
'Some' big firms have done well, for others indeed for many it's been disastrous and we don't yet see the full scale of this.

You thought 2020 was bad, just wait for 2021.
30
07/12/2020 14:38:17 21 3
bbc
If Mark and Spencer thinks that because it has clothing stores therefore they shouldn’t return business rates relief, then just return their Foodhall part. Just divide the Foodhall area by their total rental area multiply by total business rates relief. I will volunteer to calculate for them.
70
07/12/2020 18:01:52 4 1
bbc
Seems you do not understand how rateable values are set for business properties. Not as simple as you imagine. It is based on a property's annual market rent, its size and usage. And that rateable value is multiplied by a central government multiplier depending on property's total rateable value i.e. size. So just a food hall could have a smaller multiplier.
31
07/12/2020 14:50:29 0 8
bbc
The conversation probably went like.

How are we going to support retail?

Something easy - the civil service can't implement as drinking binge in a brewery in the amount of time we have.

They keep moaning about rates let's do it through rates.

And we have the bag of a fag packet effort we have.

Then the shopaholic Brits couldn't help themselves and stampeded to the essentail shops and got C19
32
07/12/2020 14:54:07 10 0
bbc
The one thing we've learned is closing retail is pointless

Indeed it's counterproductive and we just pile into the few shops left open because we can't resist it

Emotional intelligence never was a govt strength - and they had no courage to say "whatever we do it won't work"

Every "successful" European spring lockdown has been followed by a massive 2nd wave - merely delaying the inevitable
87
07/12/2020 23:52:48 1 1
bbc
"Every "successful" European spring lockdown has been followed by a massive 2nd wave - merely delaying the inevitable"

Yes .. even the Germans who thought they had "won" out of the big European countries now has more cases than the UK.

Politicians are WAY out of their depth. They should have kept restrictions to a minimum rather than trying to be the "big I am"
94
AMc
08/12/2020 09:33:22 0 0
bbc
....and your point is what exactly....
Do nothing
Don't bother
Pretend it's not happening and it'll all just go away

The fact is it DID AND IS working, it's kept numbers down. There was never going to be a silver bullet till a vaccine. All countries have tried different options with mixed results.

But I guess you're more informed than the global community of health specialists, eh!?
33
07/12/2020 15:26:37 6 1
bbc
They're doing it to avoid a PR disaster; as the weeks unfold none of the big retailers who remained open and did relatively well want to be in the News for keeping this money while so many others do to the wall. If they could have found a way to keep it I am sure they would.
61
07/12/2020 16:55:10 4 2
bbc
That may be so, but it's still good that they're doing "the right thing".
95
AMc
08/12/2020 09:38:07 0 0
bbc
"They're doing it to avoid a PR disaster" by paying it back
OR
"They're doing it to avoid a PR disaster" by not paying it back and being found out.

What is it exactly do you expect them to do, or you're just bored at home fat on furlough but happy to point your greasy critical finger at everyone else but yourself!?
34
Ben
07/12/2020 15:27:57 7 3
bbc
Lockdown was about preventing the NHS from being overwhelmed, which kinda' worked and I agree it should have happened. However, closing the economy for months has had a severe effect. Frankly, with the sheer number of business' announcing redundancies/closures and many of the other in severe debt, I wonder where we'll be in a year's time? People seriously underestimate how bad things are.
43
07/12/2020 15:53:36 13 2
bbc
I think one lockdown and then shielding the vulnerable would've been the best bet for saving the economy.

We've effectively "saved the NHS" by throwing millions of people's jobs under a bus which i think in the long run will lead to terrible issues - homelessness, crime, repossessions etc, etc
35
07/12/2020 15:31:42 25 6
bbc
If any businesses is holding onto businesses rate relief money then the must not pay out dividends or bonuses. If they have the cash to pay out those then they have the money to pay the taxpayers back.
38
07/12/2020 15:45:40 11 13
bbc
So anyone who recieved furlough shouldn't be allowed to buy Christmas presents?
60
07/12/2020 16:53:31 1 0
bbc
Also tempting to suggest what they are given must be less than and in proportion to the tax they pay.
86
07/12/2020 23:48:48 0 1
bbc
Businesses didn't fail to close the border, that was the governments failure.

If you dislike business so much, that open border DOES allow you to fly off to N Korea or Belarus if you can only manage a short flight.
4
07/12/2020 13:08:55 6 4
bbc
Good response from them, perhaps next all media outlets who've profited from pathetic scaremongering reporting this year can return their profits next (one can dream).
36
Ben
07/12/2020 15:32:48 1 0
bbc
Return their profits to who? Advertisement firms, investors, subscribers and customers? Their reporting was dreadful, but they're business'. I think it's silly to consider them as anything else.
37
07/12/2020 15:38:27 10 7
bbc
Waitrose and M&S Food are refusing the repay the business rate relief too. They claim they need to support their sister companies John Lewis and M&S. However both are distinct legal entities which would mean an inter company transfer of funds. Any intercompany transfer up to the value of the un-repaid BRR shoudl have a special tax of 100% levied.
35
07/12/2020 15:31:42 25 6
bbc
If any businesses is holding onto businesses rate relief money then the must not pay out dividends or bonuses. If they have the cash to pay out those then they have the money to pay the taxpayers back.
38
07/12/2020 15:45:40 11 13
bbc
So anyone who recieved furlough shouldn't be allowed to buy Christmas presents?
39
Ben
07/12/2020 15:48:41 3 1
bbc
There's a difference between the support given to individuals and the support given to companies still paying dividends. Furloughed workers received less than normal to cover the basics. Companies paying dividends right now is frankly wrong, just wrong. Especially when half are making half their staff redundant...
92
AMc
08/12/2020 09:18:25 0 0
bbc
No that's different, if you're on furlough you're not working and not earning a wage from your employer.

A business that can continue to operate, and indeed many of these did OK or even very well WERE receiving an income so didn't need to dip into these rates fully even partially.
103
08/12/2020 13:04:03 0 0
bbc
Tesix2; Nearly read you views wrong, so apologies. I see your sarcasm and frustration at some simplistic comments, so I have voted for you. Re; Madashell Complain to John Lewis Partnership who refuse to hand back Waitrose relief money since the JLP stores were closed and so using it to subsidise them.
38
07/12/2020 15:45:40 11 13
bbc
So anyone who recieved furlough shouldn't be allowed to buy Christmas presents?
39
Ben
07/12/2020 15:48:41 3 1
bbc
There's a difference between the support given to individuals and the support given to companies still paying dividends. Furloughed workers received less than normal to cover the basics. Companies paying dividends right now is frankly wrong, just wrong. Especially when half are making half their staff redundant...
44
07/12/2020 15:55:29 0 6
bbc
People who were made redundant should also get 80% of their pay as unemployment benefits.
40
07/12/2020 15:49:29 7 6
bbc
We are getting to the point where we need a list published:
Top 10,000 UK tax payers (individuals and companies).
Companies that took >£1million from UK government over Covid (furlough, grants etc).
45
Ben
07/12/2020 15:55:39 5 4
bbc
Problem is, including individuals sets a precedent. A dangerous one. After all, why not publish a list of the Top 10,000 UK net recipients from the state, including their names? There's no real difference between saying 'Martina Cole paid £257,996.32 in income tax' and 'Vicky Pollard claimed £257,996.32 in Child Benefits'. Do one, you have set a legal precedent for the other to be done.
53
07/12/2020 16:14:22 2 0
bbc
Part of this is coming. HMRC are going to publish the names of every employer that took money under the furlough scheme. They have done it, of course, to encourage disgruntled employees or ex-employees to grass the companies who claimed and them told people to carry on working or asked them to "volunteer" to carry on working.
23
Ish
07/12/2020 13:44:06 0 2
bbc
Were they? Are you sure about that?
41
07/12/2020 15:49:32 2 0
bbc
Milton Keynes was open after many months.
Possibly with to run up to Christmas they could not afford to remain closed.
42
07/12/2020 15:50:59 13 6
bbc
I want the list of the top 20 that are not paying it back , so I can stop buying from them immediately
46
Ben
07/12/2020 16:01:17 8 3
bbc
But what if they can't? Agree that if they've claimed and made profits, boycott them. But what if they haven't made any profit? the top 20 probably consist of the following: Topshop, Topman, Burton, Debenhams...
81
07/12/2020 21:38:04 0 1
bbc
I'm sure they are worried??
34
Ben
07/12/2020 15:27:57 7 3
bbc
Lockdown was about preventing the NHS from being overwhelmed, which kinda' worked and I agree it should have happened. However, closing the economy for months has had a severe effect. Frankly, with the sheer number of business' announcing redundancies/closures and many of the other in severe debt, I wonder where we'll be in a year's time? People seriously underestimate how bad things are.
43
07/12/2020 15:53:36 13 2
bbc
I think one lockdown and then shielding the vulnerable would've been the best bet for saving the economy.

We've effectively "saved the NHS" by throwing millions of people's jobs under a bus which i think in the long run will lead to terrible issues - homelessness, crime, repossessions etc, etc
39
Ben
07/12/2020 15:48:41 3 1
bbc
There's a difference between the support given to individuals and the support given to companies still paying dividends. Furloughed workers received less than normal to cover the basics. Companies paying dividends right now is frankly wrong, just wrong. Especially when half are making half their staff redundant...
44
07/12/2020 15:55:29 0 6
bbc
People who were made redundant should also get 80% of their pay as unemployment benefits.
50
07/12/2020 16:08:21 1 0
bbc
Only if they pay 50% of their pay in income tax going forwards.
40
07/12/2020 15:49:29 7 6
bbc
We are getting to the point where we need a list published:
Top 10,000 UK tax payers (individuals and companies).
Companies that took >£1million from UK government over Covid (furlough, grants etc).
45
Ben
07/12/2020 15:55:39 5 4
bbc
Problem is, including individuals sets a precedent. A dangerous one. After all, why not publish a list of the Top 10,000 UK net recipients from the state, including their names? There's no real difference between saying 'Martina Cole paid £257,996.32 in income tax' and 'Vicky Pollard claimed £257,996.32 in Child Benefits'. Do one, you have set a legal precedent for the other to be done.
49
07/12/2020 16:06:49 0 1
bbc
Sounds great, we should be able to see who is taking from the system.
42
07/12/2020 15:50:59 13 6
bbc
I want the list of the top 20 that are not paying it back , so I can stop buying from them immediately
46
Ben
07/12/2020 16:01:17 8 3
bbc
But what if they can't? Agree that if they've claimed and made profits, boycott them. But what if they haven't made any profit? the top 20 probably consist of the following: Topshop, Topman, Burton, Debenhams...
47
07/12/2020 16:04:05 17 4
bbc
You have to ask the question - Why were these businesses given rates relief in the first place? They were allowed to stay open - surely that's an obvious criteria that should have been put in place initially.
48
07/12/2020 16:05:49 3 0
bbc
Speed heading into the unknown.
85
07/12/2020 23:46:00 0 1
bbc
"Why were these businesses given rates relief in the first place?"

Ooooh .. I don't know .. how about the enormous cost of implementing all the safety measures, dealing with panic buying, needing to employ extra staff because some were shielding ?

Costs that they were forced to bear because of the inaction of the Clown government in closing the border.
93
AMc
08/12/2020 09:24:55 0 0
bbc
Cash flow
liquidity
security
In unprecedented times.

Had the government not acted in the way it had the economic and therein social impact would have been devastating, akin to the 1920's

Due to the sheer scale & short time it had to be done inevitably some money would have gone where it was not needed & sadly in worse cases stolen. I run a business & took a gov backed loan, but it is a LOAN
47
07/12/2020 16:04:05 17 4
bbc
You have to ask the question - Why were these businesses given rates relief in the first place? They were allowed to stay open - surely that's an obvious criteria that should have been put in place initially.
48
07/12/2020 16:05:49 3 0
bbc
Speed heading into the unknown.
45
Ben
07/12/2020 15:55:39 5 4
bbc
Problem is, including individuals sets a precedent. A dangerous one. After all, why not publish a list of the Top 10,000 UK net recipients from the state, including their names? There's no real difference between saying 'Martina Cole paid £257,996.32 in income tax' and 'Vicky Pollard claimed £257,996.32 in Child Benefits'. Do one, you have set a legal precedent for the other to be done.
49
07/12/2020 16:06:49 0 1
bbc
Sounds great, we should be able to see who is taking from the system.
52
Ben
07/12/2020 16:15:04 2 0
bbc
Yes but to what effect? Idiots would throw a brick through your window shouting "get a job". Wonder how long it would be until we see the headline '6 month old killed by brick as mother on public list showing she claimed £28,000 in benefits last year'.
44
07/12/2020 15:55:29 0 6
bbc
People who were made redundant should also get 80% of their pay as unemployment benefits.
50
07/12/2020 16:08:21 1 0
bbc
Only if they pay 50% of their pay in income tax going forwards.
51
07/12/2020 16:11:57 13 4
bbc
For the last time, none of these businesses have given anything back. They weren't given any money in the first place, they were just let off paying their rates for 2020/21 and have now decided they will pay them.
56
07/12/2020 16:28:23 11 3
bbc
Yes and the money fairy let real people off from paying Council Tax, BBC Licence Fee, fuel Tax, VAT and many other taxes for a year. Like hell it did.
58
07/12/2020 16:37:45 1 5
bbc
Q. are you so small minded to actual post this tripe? The point is they could have gained hundreds of millions extra if they did not pay. Please go and see your GP, have your dosage checked OR have you stopped your medication?
49
07/12/2020 16:06:49 0 1
bbc
Sounds great, we should be able to see who is taking from the system.
52
Ben
07/12/2020 16:15:04 2 0
bbc
Yes but to what effect? Idiots would throw a brick through your window shouting "get a job". Wonder how long it would be until we see the headline '6 month old killed by brick as mother on public list showing she claimed £28,000 in benefits last year'.
40
07/12/2020 15:49:29 7 6
bbc
We are getting to the point where we need a list published:
Top 10,000 UK tax payers (individuals and companies).
Companies that took >£1million from UK government over Covid (furlough, grants etc).
53
07/12/2020 16:14:22 2 0
bbc
Part of this is coming. HMRC are going to publish the names of every employer that took money under the furlough scheme. They have done it, of course, to encourage disgruntled employees or ex-employees to grass the companies who claimed and them told people to carry on working or asked them to "volunteer" to carry on working.
19
07/12/2020 13:37:43 2 1
bbc
Yes they did, however they have said they will be repaying £2,047,471
54
07/12/2020 16:22:49 0 0
bbc
Ah thanks for that snippet of info. A tiny few shops, never heard of them but I guess these big companies have all sorts of bits testing ideas. Good they paid back too.
28
07/12/2020 14:33:50 0 6
bbc
Many charities that run trading arms didn't qualify for this rate relief in the first place - they have had to pay their rates regardless of the fact they have had virtually no commercial income since March and little prospect until well into 2021. Help has not been consistently shared out.
55
07/12/2020 16:25:12 4 0
bbc
The vast majority of Charity shops do not pay business rates in the first place (under 15k per year RV) - they I believe would of got the 10k grant, the few bigger retail units probably fall in the 15-50k RV band and those receive a 90% discount and those units would of qualified for the 25k grant - so charities havnt done too badly.
51
07/12/2020 16:11:57 13 4
bbc
For the last time, none of these businesses have given anything back. They weren't given any money in the first place, they were just let off paying their rates for 2020/21 and have now decided they will pay them.
56
07/12/2020 16:28:23 11 3
bbc
Yes and the money fairy let real people off from paying Council Tax, BBC Licence Fee, fuel Tax, VAT and many other taxes for a year. Like hell it did.
77
07/12/2020 19:32:17 2 0
bbc
True but not relevant.
57
07/12/2020 16:35:36 10 14
bbc
Everyone is starting to payback where they unfairly gained extra business EXCEPT WAITROSE! JOHN LEWIS insist they are "entitled" to keep the move to subsidise John Lewis Stores = PURE GREED. Avoid John Lewis and Partners, make this their WORST Christmas ever GREED, PURE and SIMPLE. Never Knowingly Honest????
62
07/12/2020 17:02:03 11 3
bbc
i suggest before spouting your hate you check some facts. john lewis i believe has lost 600 million pounds this year and its staff who are not highly paid anyway are not getting a bonus next year. so you saying greed is a total lie. unless your intention is to add to the unemployment in this country
67
07/12/2020 17:52:44 2 1
bbc
That's not going to happen, John Lewis is far too popular. Silly suggestion anyway.
69
07/12/2020 17:57:20 4 0
bbc
John Lewis Partnership plc includes Waitrose but the group made a loss of £635 million for the first 6 months of 2020.

The issue with the big supermarkets is that they were paying dividends to shareholders whilst taking the rate relief. John Lewis, as a partnership, only pays a 'dividend to employees' - they've scrapped this for 2020, last time was 1953 so that shows how bad things are for them.
51
07/12/2020 16:11:57 13 4
bbc
For the last time, none of these businesses have given anything back. They weren't given any money in the first place, they were just let off paying their rates for 2020/21 and have now decided they will pay them.
58
07/12/2020 16:37:45 1 5
bbc
Q. are you so small minded to actual post this tripe? The point is they could have gained hundreds of millions extra if they did not pay. Please go and see your GP, have your dosage checked OR have you stopped your medication?
78
07/12/2020 19:32:27 1 1
bbc
What?
59
07/12/2020 16:50:11 0 3
bbc
given how much a PITA getting out of this Eu trade cartel is we know NEVER to do it again at least!
35
07/12/2020 15:31:42 25 6
bbc
If any businesses is holding onto businesses rate relief money then the must not pay out dividends or bonuses. If they have the cash to pay out those then they have the money to pay the taxpayers back.
60
07/12/2020 16:53:31 1 0
bbc
Also tempting to suggest what they are given must be less than and in proportion to the tax they pay.
33
07/12/2020 15:26:37 6 1
bbc
They're doing it to avoid a PR disaster; as the weeks unfold none of the big retailers who remained open and did relatively well want to be in the News for keeping this money while so many others do to the wall. If they could have found a way to keep it I am sure they would.
61
07/12/2020 16:55:10 4 2
bbc
That may be so, but it's still good that they're doing "the right thing".
57
07/12/2020 16:35:36 10 14
bbc
Everyone is starting to payback where they unfairly gained extra business EXCEPT WAITROSE! JOHN LEWIS insist they are "entitled" to keep the move to subsidise John Lewis Stores = PURE GREED. Avoid John Lewis and Partners, make this their WORST Christmas ever GREED, PURE and SIMPLE. Never Knowingly Honest????
62
07/12/2020 17:02:03 11 3
bbc
i suggest before spouting your hate you check some facts. john lewis i believe has lost 600 million pounds this year and its staff who are not highly paid anyway are not getting a bonus next year. so you saying greed is a total lie. unless your intention is to add to the unemployment in this country
22
bdp
07/12/2020 13:42:48 12 8
bbc
And yet the middle to upper class stores like waitrose john Lewis and m &s and the coop that charges over the odds for most products are keeping there grubby little hands on their
63
07/12/2020 17:14:11 4 2
bbc
and another comment that doesnt care about facts. john lewis i believe has lost 600 million pounds this year. i guess you will be happy for them to make redundant lots of there low paid staff just to satisfy your hate
7
07/12/2020 13:14:49 6 3
bbc
Lol utter trash. Greedy taking hand out while they boomed. I think you might be thinking of thecCo-Op who try on any marketing ethical con line. Not Waitrose. They also have not yet joined in either, last I heard. So much for marketing ethics!
64
07/12/2020 17:19:50 1 1
bbc
try checking facts before talking tripe. john lewis partnership has not boomed. 600million pound loss. staff on fairly low pay and no bonus next year. but hey lets kick them all out of a job...
23
Ish
07/12/2020 13:44:06 0 2
bbc
Were they? Are you sure about that?
65
07/12/2020 17:46:58 1 0
bbc
Cheapside in City of London just one example
22
bdp
07/12/2020 13:42:48 12 8
bbc
And yet the middle to upper class stores like waitrose john Lewis and m &s and the coop that charges over the odds for most products are keeping there grubby little hands on their
66
07/12/2020 17:52:11 0 0
bbc
Assume you've never been in a M&S stores. Did you know that they sell clothes as well & they make up the most floor space of their stores.
And that John Lewis is a department store where the food section is a very small part of the stores.
But hey, don't let reality get in the way of a moan.
Can't say why Co-op didn't or why £3.8 billion of taxpayers money used to inflate house prices
57
07/12/2020 16:35:36 10 14
bbc
Everyone is starting to payback where they unfairly gained extra business EXCEPT WAITROSE! JOHN LEWIS insist they are "entitled" to keep the move to subsidise John Lewis Stores = PURE GREED. Avoid John Lewis and Partners, make this their WORST Christmas ever GREED, PURE and SIMPLE. Never Knowingly Honest????
67
07/12/2020 17:52:44 2 1
bbc
That's not going to happen, John Lewis is far too popular. Silly suggestion anyway.
25
07/12/2020 14:03:10 9 6
bbc
Marks and Spencer have been open....this is a disgrace! Anyway they will never sell me anything again as I won't even buy a prawn sandwich in there. We should vote with our feet against these 'highwaymen and women' who distort the facts and should shop with those that aren't ripping us off...yes 'us' because we will pay for this tax relief eventually
68
07/12/2020 17:54:23 3 0
bbc
Have the non-food shop parts of their stores been open and have all their shops in city centres which office workers no longer frequent as "working"(sic) from home stayed open?
Certainly not the case near me
57
07/12/2020 16:35:36 10 14
bbc
Everyone is starting to payback where they unfairly gained extra business EXCEPT WAITROSE! JOHN LEWIS insist they are "entitled" to keep the move to subsidise John Lewis Stores = PURE GREED. Avoid John Lewis and Partners, make this their WORST Christmas ever GREED, PURE and SIMPLE. Never Knowingly Honest????
69
07/12/2020 17:57:20 4 0
bbc
John Lewis Partnership plc includes Waitrose but the group made a loss of £635 million for the first 6 months of 2020.

The issue with the big supermarkets is that they were paying dividends to shareholders whilst taking the rate relief. John Lewis, as a partnership, only pays a 'dividend to employees' - they've scrapped this for 2020, last time was 1953 so that shows how bad things are for them.
74
07/12/2020 18:41:06 1 0
bbc
Trouble is Sharon White CEO of John Lewis has no retail experience......google her and see ! Her team is weak.
30
07/12/2020 14:38:17 21 3
bbc
If Mark and Spencer thinks that because it has clothing stores therefore they shouldn’t return business rates relief, then just return their Foodhall part. Just divide the Foodhall area by their total rental area multiply by total business rates relief. I will volunteer to calculate for them.
70
07/12/2020 18:01:52 4 1
bbc
Seems you do not understand how rateable values are set for business properties. Not as simple as you imagine. It is based on a property's annual market rent, its size and usage. And that rateable value is multiplied by a central government multiplier depending on property's total rateable value i.e. size. So just a food hall could have a smaller multiplier.
72
07/12/2020 18:28:51 2 0
bbc
I'm sure you're correct...technically, but what M& S need to understand is that Morally the public and wider business community expect them to do the right thing and pay 'something' back. Remember..perception IS reality and if they are perceived to be pulling a fast-one.....then that's what they are doing !?
71
07/12/2020 18:15:56 15 1
bbc
No money returned from labour supporting coop
70
07/12/2020 18:01:52 4 1
bbc
Seems you do not understand how rateable values are set for business properties. Not as simple as you imagine. It is based on a property's annual market rent, its size and usage. And that rateable value is multiplied by a central government multiplier depending on property's total rateable value i.e. size. So just a food hall could have a smaller multiplier.
72
07/12/2020 18:28:51 2 0
bbc
I'm sure you're correct...technically, but what M& S need to understand is that Morally the public and wider business community expect them to do the right thing and pay 'something' back. Remember..perception IS reality and if they are perceived to be pulling a fast-one.....then that's what they are doing !?
73
07/12/2020 18:39:42 4 5
bbc
It’s good that all of these companies are returning the rates relief money - it should be re-distributed to hospitality, entertainment venues and the arts in my opinion as they’ve been ravaged this year by Covid.
Use it to support community businesses that won’t be there when this is over otherwise.
69
07/12/2020 17:57:20 4 0
bbc
John Lewis Partnership plc includes Waitrose but the group made a loss of £635 million for the first 6 months of 2020.

The issue with the big supermarkets is that they were paying dividends to shareholders whilst taking the rate relief. John Lewis, as a partnership, only pays a 'dividend to employees' - they've scrapped this for 2020, last time was 1953 so that shows how bad things are for them.
74
07/12/2020 18:41:06 1 0
bbc
Trouble is Sharon White CEO of John Lewis has no retail experience......google her and see ! Her team is weak.
75
07/12/2020 18:51:42 0 0
bbc
She is a career civil servant, but she does have the right connections as well as a degree and post-graduate degree in Economics. And previous CEOs with retail experience have simply overseen John Lewis's decades of decline.
74
07/12/2020 18:41:06 1 0
bbc
Trouble is Sharon White CEO of John Lewis has no retail experience......google her and see ! Her team is weak.
75
07/12/2020 18:51:42 0 0
bbc
She is a career civil servant, but she does have the right connections as well as a degree and post-graduate degree in Economics. And previous CEOs with retail experience have simply overseen John Lewis's decades of decline.
76
07/12/2020 18:57:11 3 6
bbc
Some of this could go towards rescuing parts of the hospitality sector from ruin!
56
07/12/2020 16:28:23 11 3
bbc
Yes and the money fairy let real people off from paying Council Tax, BBC Licence Fee, fuel Tax, VAT and many other taxes for a year. Like hell it did.
77
07/12/2020 19:32:17 2 0
bbc
True but not relevant.
58
07/12/2020 16:37:45 1 5
bbc
Q. are you so small minded to actual post this tripe? The point is they could have gained hundreds of millions extra if they did not pay. Please go and see your GP, have your dosage checked OR have you stopped your medication?
78
07/12/2020 19:32:27 1 1
bbc
What?
79
07/12/2020 19:48:16 1 9
bbc
They should have kept the money and gave a pay rise to the shopfloor workers.
80
07/12/2020 21:37:53 1 2
bbc
Whilst this has some cause for comment, the continued dumbing down & lack of information from the BBC on the stock market & general state of economy is lamentable. So we have lost the date of the items on stock (?) & shares & can no longer see any useful information. Do the BBC not see what is going on or are they co-conspiratorial in the lack of information? What about Co's with no rate relief?
99
08/12/2020 10:44:19 0 0
bbc
Yes the BBC should do a Panorama on the conditions of the U.K. economy .

Key indicators last ten years.

Be impartial ,just data.

People will be surprised
42
07/12/2020 15:50:59 13 6
bbc
I want the list of the top 20 that are not paying it back , so I can stop buying from them immediately
81
07/12/2020 21:38:04 0 1
bbc
I'm sure they are worried??
82
07/12/2020 21:42:11 3 0
bbc
There were countless businesses that didn't close, but received grants and rate relief. Our pub didn't get one, as the property we lease is expensive, but Dominos Pizza and the local One Stop did, and they didn't even close, nor do they even pay rates as below the threshold. A disgrace.
102
08/12/2020 11:34:11 0 0
bbc
If they don't pay rates, what relief did they get?
22
bdp
07/12/2020 13:42:48 12 8
bbc
And yet the middle to upper class stores like waitrose john Lewis and m &s and the coop that charges over the odds for most products are keeping there grubby little hands on their
83
07/12/2020 21:42:50 0 0
bbc
Facts, facts, read about them before posting nonsense
84
07/12/2020 21:44:32 0 1
bbc
Utter rubbish
47
07/12/2020 16:04:05 17 4
bbc
You have to ask the question - Why were these businesses given rates relief in the first place? They were allowed to stay open - surely that's an obvious criteria that should have been put in place initially.
85
07/12/2020 23:46:00 0 1
bbc
"Why were these businesses given rates relief in the first place?"

Ooooh .. I don't know .. how about the enormous cost of implementing all the safety measures, dealing with panic buying, needing to employ extra staff because some were shielding ?

Costs that they were forced to bear because of the inaction of the Clown government in closing the border.
35
07/12/2020 15:31:42 25 6
bbc
If any businesses is holding onto businesses rate relief money then the must not pay out dividends or bonuses. If they have the cash to pay out those then they have the money to pay the taxpayers back.
86
07/12/2020 23:48:48 0 1
bbc
Businesses didn't fail to close the border, that was the governments failure.

If you dislike business so much, that open border DOES allow you to fly off to N Korea or Belarus if you can only manage a short flight.
32
07/12/2020 14:54:07 10 0
bbc
The one thing we've learned is closing retail is pointless

Indeed it's counterproductive and we just pile into the few shops left open because we can't resist it

Emotional intelligence never was a govt strength - and they had no courage to say "whatever we do it won't work"

Every "successful" European spring lockdown has been followed by a massive 2nd wave - merely delaying the inevitable
87
07/12/2020 23:52:48 1 1
bbc
"Every "successful" European spring lockdown has been followed by a massive 2nd wave - merely delaying the inevitable"

Yes .. even the Germans who thought they had "won" out of the big European countries now has more cases than the UK.

Politicians are WAY out of their depth. They should have kept restrictions to a minimum rather than trying to be the "big I am"
29
07/12/2020 14:37:07 5 0
bbc
Pleased to see this- the big chains that have done well out of these odd circumstances should absolutely all do the same. The country is building up a debt ( rightly so to help) that will ultimately have to be dealt with- so repaying these tax concessions that were not necessary is welcomed. Should be enforced on those yet to do it
88
07/12/2020 23:55:43 0 1
bbc
You can't enforce people to pay back something they were offered unconditionally in the first place.

It would be like you asking for a donation to charity to be returned because one of the people the charity helped won £5000 on Thunderball.
27
07/12/2020 14:30:35 2 6
bbc
Tesco's got all the money a company which had a massive finance scandal with not much consequences for the managers.....all got their fat pensions still....all still serve as directors...
89
07/12/2020 23:57:08 1 0
bbc
Yeah lets close Tesco down, why not.

COVID, NO DEAL BREXIT, NO TESCO.

That will help the country won't it ?
25
07/12/2020 14:03:10 9 6
bbc
Marks and Spencer have been open....this is a disgrace! Anyway they will never sell me anything again as I won't even buy a prawn sandwich in there. We should vote with our feet against these 'highwaymen and women' who distort the facts and should shop with those that aren't ripping us off...yes 'us' because we will pay for this tax relief eventually
90
07/12/2020 23:59:43 1 0
bbc
"Anyway they will never sell me anything again as I won't even buy a prawn sandwich in there."

Good man.

More sandwiches for me then, plus not having to rub shoulders with haters.

M&S are a great business. Just not as successful as they used to be.
91
08/12/2020 08:29:05 1 2
bbc
Good to get the money back but don’t be fooled. Most of these companies want to pay high director bonuses and dividends and would be under a lot of moral pressure if they kept the rates cash. Goor PR but done for the wrong reasons.
100
08/12/2020 10:47:09 0 0
bbc
Some people is impossible to please.
101
08/12/2020 11:33:13 0 0
bbc
No money has "come back".
38
07/12/2020 15:45:40 11 13
bbc
So anyone who recieved furlough shouldn't be allowed to buy Christmas presents?
92
AMc
08/12/2020 09:18:25 0 0
bbc
No that's different, if you're on furlough you're not working and not earning a wage from your employer.

A business that can continue to operate, and indeed many of these did OK or even very well WERE receiving an income so didn't need to dip into these rates fully even partially.
47
07/12/2020 16:04:05 17 4
bbc
You have to ask the question - Why were these businesses given rates relief in the first place? They were allowed to stay open - surely that's an obvious criteria that should have been put in place initially.
93
AMc
08/12/2020 09:24:55 0 0
bbc
Cash flow
liquidity
security
In unprecedented times.

Had the government not acted in the way it had the economic and therein social impact would have been devastating, akin to the 1920's

Due to the sheer scale & short time it had to be done inevitably some money would have gone where it was not needed & sadly in worse cases stolen. I run a business & took a gov backed loan, but it is a LOAN
32
07/12/2020 14:54:07 10 0
bbc
The one thing we've learned is closing retail is pointless

Indeed it's counterproductive and we just pile into the few shops left open because we can't resist it

Emotional intelligence never was a govt strength - and they had no courage to say "whatever we do it won't work"

Every "successful" European spring lockdown has been followed by a massive 2nd wave - merely delaying the inevitable
94
AMc
08/12/2020 09:33:22 0 0
bbc
....and your point is what exactly....
Do nothing
Don't bother
Pretend it's not happening and it'll all just go away

The fact is it DID AND IS working, it's kept numbers down. There was never going to be a silver bullet till a vaccine. All countries have tried different options with mixed results.

But I guess you're more informed than the global community of health specialists, eh!?
33
07/12/2020 15:26:37 6 1
bbc
They're doing it to avoid a PR disaster; as the weeks unfold none of the big retailers who remained open and did relatively well want to be in the News for keeping this money while so many others do to the wall. If they could have found a way to keep it I am sure they would.
95
AMc
08/12/2020 09:38:07 0 0
bbc
"They're doing it to avoid a PR disaster" by paying it back
OR
"They're doing it to avoid a PR disaster" by not paying it back and being found out.

What is it exactly do you expect them to do, or you're just bored at home fat on furlough but happy to point your greasy critical finger at everyone else but yourself!?
29
07/12/2020 14:37:07 5 0
bbc
Pleased to see this- the big chains that have done well out of these odd circumstances should absolutely all do the same. The country is building up a debt ( rightly so to help) that will ultimately have to be dealt with- so repaying these tax concessions that were not necessary is welcomed. Should be enforced on those yet to do it
96
AMc
08/12/2020 09:40:28 0 0
bbc
'Some' big firms have done well, for others indeed for many it's been disastrous and we don't yet see the full scale of this.

You thought 2020 was bad, just wait for 2021.
22
bdp
07/12/2020 13:42:48 12 8
bbc
And yet the middle to upper class stores like waitrose john Lewis and m &s and the coop that charges over the odds for most products are keeping there grubby little hands on their
97
AMc
08/12/2020 09:48:10 0 0
bbc
Oh bdp the clairvoyant, please enlighten us wise one, substantiate your comments with facts. Just how have the operating profits, balance sheets, Debt to Revenue, staffing levels, supply chains of M&S, John Lewis etc been affected compared to, e.g. Tesco?

Or are you so sad sitting in little sad bdp world that the best you can offer is based on companies that sell posh mince pies, PATHETIC
98
RDG
08/12/2020 09:59:51 1 0
bbc
Marks and Spencer should do the right thing and return the rates relief they received for their food stores.
80
07/12/2020 21:37:53 1 2
bbc
Whilst this has some cause for comment, the continued dumbing down & lack of information from the BBC on the stock market & general state of economy is lamentable. So we have lost the date of the items on stock (?) & shares & can no longer see any useful information. Do the BBC not see what is going on or are they co-conspiratorial in the lack of information? What about Co's with no rate relief?
99
08/12/2020 10:44:19 0 0
bbc
Yes the BBC should do a Panorama on the conditions of the U.K. economy .

Key indicators last ten years.

Be impartial ,just data.

People will be surprised
91
08/12/2020 08:29:05 1 2
bbc
Good to get the money back but don’t be fooled. Most of these companies want to pay high director bonuses and dividends and would be under a lot of moral pressure if they kept the rates cash. Goor PR but done for the wrong reasons.
100
08/12/2020 10:47:09 0 0
bbc
Some people is impossible to please.