'England need to recognise prime time to attack'
07/12/2020
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sport
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rugbyunion
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England showed they can adapt under pressure in the Autumn Nations Cup final but there is room for improvement in their attack, says Matt Dawson.
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dazza
07/12/2020 12:51:10
27
8
bbc
We still won just not in the fashion I would have liked. 2 trophies in the last 2 months can't grumble even the all blacks have an off day. Which is who I measure the England squad against. But French rugby seems to be catching up very quickly.
Catching who? I hope you mean the All Blacks. They beat England in the last 6N and are surely favourites in 2021, even at Twickers. France are the NH team to beat at the moment, and SA are the SH equivalent.
That's the problem - NZ would eat England for breakfast with the current game plan. To be clear, I don't consider the currect game plan to be the same as the one that beat the ABs in the semi-final, we have regressed significantly since then.
With Eddie Jones on this. Is it boring? Yes. Do I like England winning? Also yes. If we were losing games it would be ok to moan but with his record, let's trust him. I'm sure if England could have scored lovely tries they would have been very happy to do so.
With Ireland and Wales seemingly weaker I agree it is England best chance of a Grand Slam with France and Scotland at home.
Also agree they’re not looking for attacking opportunities.
Malins and Robson included with Tuilagi back would create more dynamism.
Also agree they’re not looking for attacking opportunities.
Malins and Robson included with Tuilagi back would create more dynamism.
And Nowell.
You can say whatever you like about England but at the moment they are playing boring, predictable rugby. All that power and relentless kicking might work against lesser teams, but it falls flat against equally powerful teams and especially ones that can catch the balls we kick away. We need to mix it up a lot more. We have great runners and playmakers who are being seriously under-used. Yawn!
100% - my rugby loving lads refuse to watch England - I can't blame them. Can blame EJ though for making brand England the unpalatable brand it is and refusing to pick form over caps.
Totally agree but it’s rife as Wales and Ireland play exactly the same game but not quite as well. Awful viewing
Agree, England have largest of all resources to compete on world stage. No excuse for failure Eddie!
Totally agree. When England do not dominate the opposing pack, they seem to run out of ideas and options pretty quickly. We saw that in the World Cup and on Saturday. The warning bells should be sounding now for EJ; develop your back play or suffer against the teams with more accomplished forwards. They have the quality out wide (May, Slade, et al) .. use them!!
Yes, I agree too much box kicking not enough running from Youngs. He does the same thing all the time and gives possession back to the opposition with his box kicks which are very predictable.
Whatever happened to the grubber kick? its never used with England now. A good grubber kick to make the defender bend down for the ball often brings rewards with handling errors!
Whatever happened to the grubber kick? its never used with England now. A good grubber kick to make the defender bend down for the ball often brings rewards with handling errors!
I must say I knew the French would give us a good game, by the end I actually felt for them. They played all the rugby and our back line seems incapable of running. This reminds me of 2018 when we were shocking out wide. Since our RWC backs coach left we simply do not look as dangerous. I almost wish we were beaten, sadly we want to win but we need entertaining rugby. Thats consumerism for you!
I agree with you that Eng kicked the ball away before ANY thoughts otherwise. And some of the kicks appeared aimless, hoping for a mistake. Thats sad and negative.
I hate the words EJ uses. “Fans are disrespectful” because they dont like this style of winning.
TBH both sides should have won it in 80 minutes.
If it had been France what would he have said?
I hate the words EJ uses. “Fans are disrespectful” because they dont like this style of winning.
TBH both sides should have won it in 80 minutes.
If it had been France what would he have said?
the 50-50 cross field kick with no penalty advantage when we were camped in the French 22 was utterly criminal.
Message for EJ, fans have a right to express their views and he needs to be remember that RESPECT has to be earned not to be expected irrespective of his team's level performance or indeed lack of.
EJ should bear in mind that he is being disrespectful to both his players and spectators in coaching a team with such negative aspirations
This will give Eng more confidence than a 30-0 cakewalk
Owen mislaid his kicking boots, 7 pts down with 1 minute to go and they still get the result.
In sudden death they played very professionally - France didn't have a sniff
Owen mislaid his kicking boots, 7 pts down with 1 minute to go and they still get the result.
In sudden death they played very professionally - France didn't have a sniff
England was lucky re calls from the ref in the last 10 minutes - against an inexperienced scratch French B/C team. Nothing to get excited about really.
I would have preferred to watch marathon runners on a 100m oval track. The game was boring, relied on extra time and the distress win. Rugby Union is getting boring and can no longer be carried by 80,000 crowds drinking 5 pints and eating 4 pies. Too many rules, too much play in trying to get the opposition to infringe the rules rather than trying to out play them. A cure is needed.
England have always been up and under specialists (Davies, Andrew et al) - it's know as the English game in France (where I live). Except it used to be kick for touch, challenge the line out..... Never stopped Twickers being full.
This coach was employed to win the World Cup which he didn't - what has he done?
The cure might have something to do with his position....
This coach was employed to win the World Cup which he didn't - what has he done?
The cure might have something to do with his position....
All the rule changes have been attempts by the SH, usually Aus, to try to compete with RL down there.
Because of Super Rugby, virtually a non contact sport, they’re holding their own.
The rules don’t translate to NH conditions. Slippery (relatively) balls cab nt be chucked around.
Because of use it or lose it, defences spread out.
There’s 0 space.
Plus referees don’t referee any offside line.
Because of Super Rugby, virtually a non contact sport, they’re holding their own.
The rules don’t translate to NH conditions. Slippery (relatively) balls cab nt be chucked around.
Because of use it or lose it, defences spread out.
There’s 0 space.
Plus referees don’t referee any offside line.
Wrong ... Farrell is not creative .... please share evidence in 2020
Any other player would have been dropped for his dire efforts this autumn.
100% For the life of me I think Farrell is a penalty kicking ace par excellence. That said, he lacks pace which ultimately stifles any hope of England running the ball when the opportunity arises. His tackling leaves huge amounts to be desired as well. He has had a miserable tournament and we should not gloss over his lack of attacking instinct.
Farrell and Biggar are similar: both regarded as undroppable by their nations, but both incapable of engendering flowing moves for the backs.
Farrell has been creative over the years. Watch some of his Saracens performances against Europe’s best , albeit when quicker ball than Young’s delivers come’s his way. Historically for England as well he has done a lot more. Recently however hard to argue he has played well. Look at Ford though , he has created nothing either. Have to look at Youngs and coaches.
Is Matt Dawson attempting to defend a player who should be dropped - never mind his poor captaincy ??
Where was the captain to give orders to play the ball out to the (left) wing at the end of first half, where there was about a 6 man overlap???
Good to grind out a win, becoming a little predictable, so opposition organize well to stifle any good ball. My disappointment is when they fail to do the basics timing of pass and quality of pass thus not scoring tries when on offer. Forwards also don't seem to dominate as they recently did. Look forward to the 6 nations. Does Eddie know his best team.
When is a ref actually going to ping players for advancing from in front of the kicker? Stop telling them to hold - just ping them. That will slow down the defense setting and get to some open rugby. Then we would have seen France's superior backline running more freely - but equally would bring a change in style to England's rugby approach.
The important point is that England came from behind and found a way to win against a side that fronted. It's the first time I've seen this in a long time and is hugely encouraging. A key strength of the 2003 team (against the SH teams at least) is that they always found a way to win, even when they weren't playing well or were behind. In this respect at least, Sunday was very encouraging.
For the benefit of Wales, Scotland and Ireland a final is what you get to play in when you win a semi final. Sorry for any confusion caused when reading this article.
It sounds a bit like the Welsh word "final" meaning the game against England the outcome of which defines your entire rugby season.
Final day obviously starts with the traditional singing of "as long as we beat the English", never has a song summed up a nation's ambitions so completely
Final day obviously starts with the traditional singing of "as long as we beat the English", never has a song summed up a nation's ambitions so completely
England lack a move-it-up-the-middle man, in the mold of a Mickey Tindall or Carling - knees up, elbows pumping, in yer face.
The pack was found out by SA a year ago - where's the yeoman player in the mold of Corry, Easter, Hall, or Dooley in the modern game.
Too many spend too much time carping and ref / oppos and whooping decisions, rather than getting stuck in.
The pack was found out by SA a year ago - where's the yeoman player in the mold of Corry, Easter, Hall, or Dooley in the modern game.
Too many spend too much time carping and ref / oppos and whooping decisions, rather than getting stuck in.
Tuilagi?
Fords a better 10 than Faz, and Slades a better 12 than Faz... Whats needed is a bigger 13 if England persist on the metres through tackles. The wings of Cokanasiga and Jack Nowell would be better suited to a bigger center pairing.
Will Carling retired by Lomu! Will Greenwood the best!
Simon Amor should spend all the time he has with the England backs teaching them how to align in attack and how to catch and pass a ball. How many times during this tournament have we seen a pass thrown to the inside shoulder, over the head and at the feet. Easier to kick the ball than try to attack through the hands. Basic schoolboy stuff !
Think they are just out of practice... some of the outside backs have only touched the ball a handful of times in the last two months.
A win is a win but it felt unimaginative and one-dimensional and I think we couldn't have complained if we'd lost.
Well done England for winning but the one dimensional issue is not theirs alone. felt for their one game Fiji were the best watch.
All Celtic teams were fairly average, really disappointed with Scotland's display against French, just kicking it away and their no-show, again, against Irish !
All Celtic teams were fairly average, really disappointed with Scotland's display against French, just kicking it away and their no-show, again, against Irish !
England are flirting with disproving the maxim that the side that makes the least mistakes will win the game. If the error count is kept artificially low by taking zero measured risks then sides with less ability to control territory and possession will always have the chance to pick England off by being incisive and not wasting their chances when they do come.
England just do enough, it's the mark of a good side.
They would have still beaten France had their first team started, and they'll win the 6N again next year.
They would have still beaten France had their first team started, and they'll win the 6N again next year.
If the full French XV had played a scratch England B/C team, doing 'just enough' would not have been acceptable and it's not the mark of a good side; England did not click. Without a few dodgy reffing calls, England would/could have lost this game.
Funny how 'kick and clap rugby' is ok unless it's anyone other than England doing it. When Ireland were smashing them off the park up front all we heard from Eddie was, 'Boring old Ireland', But now England have developed a strong defensive 15, boring rugby isn't so much of an issue, and Eddie gets awfully offended if you say otherwise...
You're wrong there - the press have hammered England for this in the past - to the point where they once completely changed their tactics for a World Cup final!
No, its the other way around, if anyone else does it its OK once England start doing it they are "destroying the whole of rugby"!
Massive hypocrisy!
Massive hypocrisy!
Last year just before RWC final - Dawson said that not one S.African would make the England squad or words to that effect. After beating a weakened Ireland & Wales he compared England to the All Blacks. I just can't take him seriously - he's the click-bate king.
England is on a good run against weakened opposition & but must probably improve significantly to beat the full French side in the 6N.
England is on a good run against weakened opposition & but must probably improve significantly to beat the full French side in the 6N.
I was pleased to hear Dawson say the Ire vs Eng game in Dublin is a foregone conclusion.
England should have murdered the France Extra B XV - but they didn't. The French team were magnificent. It seems that a few of those England players on display are in the twilight of their international careers.
I would like to see the TMO/Assistant Refs identify and penalise those who do not retire when a ball is kicked. Maybe we can get rid of the awful kicking tennis just by applying the rules.
I would like to see the TMO/Assistant Refs identify and penalise those who do not retire when a ball is kicked. Maybe we can get rid of the awful kicking tennis just by applying the rules.
yet they were the only side that got anywhere near England. Says little for the other sides in the tournament. Both French sides could expect a top 3 finish in the 6N.
A little perspective David. They spent virtually the entire second half camped in their own 22, where they defended magnificently without any doubt. But they hardly 'played' brilliantly either. If Farrell had worn his kicking boots the game would have be comfortably over within the 80.
With Ireland and Wales seemingly weaker I agree it is England best chance of a Grand Slam with France and Scotland at home.
Also agree they’re not looking for attacking opportunities.
Malins and Robson included with Tuilagi back would create more dynamism.
Also agree they’re not looking for attacking opportunities.
Malins and Robson included with Tuilagi back would create more dynamism.
Not very impressed with England this autumn, except for the Ireland game, but have to say there seems to be a lot of over reaction to yesterday. A lot of players had off days yesterday with Faz top of the list, but that happens sometimes and ultimately they did the job. Yes- against a French second team, but they were the best side we've faced this autumn by some distance...
my concern is the reliance on plan a, there is no plan b,c etc. and a total lack of ability to switch to take advantage of whats in front of them. maybe once or twice all season have they taken advantage of a turnover etc and scored and usually its one individual that has done it. for france however the future looks bright they need to get some of these youngsters in the squad and shake things up
This is the key for me. It's very obvious that Eddie Jones has these players 100% under the thumb. If you deviate even slightly from the plan you are for the chop, even if your inventiveness leads to a try, that's no excuse.
Anyone remember ‘I am the ref not your coach’? No on-field thinking.
Totally agree. Not having a plan B has been a major issue for England for quite some time. They rely on forward muscle but if this doesn't work, as demonstrated in the RWC Final, they are clueless. It's a complete waste of talented individuals like May, Nowell, Watson, Daly etc. The French seem to have plenty of muscle up front but also play with passion & flair in the backs.
Funny how 'kick and clap rugby' is ok unless it's anyone other than England doing it. When Ireland were smashing them off the park up front all we heard from Eddie was, 'Boring old Ireland', But now England have developed a strong defensive 15, boring rugby isn't so much of an issue, and Eddie gets awfully offended if you say otherwise...
Correct 1991 .
England should have murdered the France Extra B XV - but they didn't. The French team were magnificent. It seems that a few of those England players on display are in the twilight of their international careers.
I would like to see the TMO/Assistant Refs identify and penalise those who do not retire when a ball is kicked. Maybe we can get rid of the awful kicking tennis just by applying the rules.
I would like to see the TMO/Assistant Refs identify and penalise those who do not retire when a ball is kicked. Maybe we can get rid of the awful kicking tennis just by applying the rules.
Funny how 'kick and clap rugby' is ok unless it's anyone other than England doing it. When Ireland were smashing them off the park up front all we heard from Eddie was, 'Boring old Ireland', But now England have developed a strong defensive 15, boring rugby isn't so much of an issue, and Eddie gets awfully offended if you say otherwise...
Regardless of whatever hypocrisy you perceive from your own media, when your head coach is slamming Ireland for kick and clap, then setting up his team to do exactly that two years later, THAT'S a whole new level of hypocrisy. Jones thinks he's the new Mourinho, pity everyone knew when he started spouting before the game about free flowing rugby England would be set up to do the exact opposite.
A good win but nowhere near convincing!
England will never win a Grand Slam with that overly defensive performance.
England will never win a Grand Slam with that overly defensive performance.
Wales managed it two years ago. So it possible but i agree they need to find an attacking edge. I think that it will be easier to adopt and bring in. Only the French really played any attacking rugby this Autumn. No other team looked willing to play either unless the match meant nothing. Weather also didnt help.
At the moment there is a huge strength in depth in both English and French rugby. The side France put out would have given the full side a run for their money, and England could easily pick a reserve 15 capable of running the first team close, off the top of my head, Williams, Dunn, Hepburn, Ewels, Attwood, Wilson, Willis, Simmonds, Spencer, Smith, Joe C, Devoto, Marchant, Thorley, Furbank.
I am happy England can grind out results when the pressure is on. I am happy our forwards can match any team out there. But I too have been extremely bored watching England hoping for a spark of magic from one of our talented backs. And they are talented, but never get the chance to prove it because the ball very rarely gets past Farrell or Ford.
The forwards definitely didn't match The Bokke in the RWC final - move on 12 months against a French scratch B/C team; the English forwards only dominated the lineout. The forwards are great in the loose & at the breakdown, but yesterday they couldn't breach the French line after 10 phases from less than 1m; most mauls were stopped; scrum dominance was not as it should have been. Lacking grunt.
I'd say the lack of outside edge has come from the back 3 over or under running each other and Henry Slade more than it comes from Ford or Farrell being unwilling to give it to them.
England pack will always keep them competitive. They certainly wont be 'found out'.
It's hard with youngs slow and predictable service. An out of form Ford, an out of form farrell an out of form full back... Backs not exactly hard to defend against are we
Absolutely spot on!!!
I just checked the recent results. It turns out that England won all 4 of their Nations Cup games and WON THE TOURNAMENT!
Yes Well done England for winning all 4 Nations Cup Matches - BUT.... lets look a little closer - England fielded their strongest team at each round AND... Beat a very Poor Wales side but didnt beat them convincingly, Beat an Irish side that pretty much had a second string back line and blooding lots of new young players,
labored to a win against a tier 2 nation in Georgia and stuttered to a win against a French 'C' Team (more or less their U21's) SO yeah Well done england for looking ordinary against severly underpar opponents
And the biggar tournament before that one .
The laws need to be modified. At the moment the fear of a player becoming isolated is too severe. Even the times there were line breaks yesterday, it frequently resulted in a turnover or a penalty for failure to release. Teams are essentially being incentivised to keep the ball close to their support, and in essence playing this way won South Africa the WC, so no surprises to see it copied.
I think you need to watch the game again. I don't disagree about players fearing being isolated but SA used a combination to achieve the result. Softened England up and took opportunities clinically when they came. They were nothing like that England team yesterday. Surely that's good rugby. Balance between attack and defence.
Absolutely
There has to be a benefit for breaking the line
With blitz defense leaving opposition players in the way of support players the instant release rule has to be changed
The reward for attacking play at the moment is to get jackeled and lose the ball!!
There has to be a benefit for breaking the line
With blitz defense leaving opposition players in the way of support players the instant release rule has to be changed
The reward for attacking play at the moment is to get jackeled and lose the ball!!
Agreed but players need to anticipate and support the breaking player.
SA had a monster pack, in the final their big beasts were bigger and harder than ours
Yes, you need to watch the World Cup again too. SA defeated England in every aspect of the final, frequently put the ball wide, and scored two superb tries through skilful and inventive back play. And not only were their pack bigger and tougher than England's, they were more dynamic.
Some voices on here suggesting that England should have smashed France... have you forgotten that France have won the last 2 U21 world cups ? *And* have acquired the best defence coach in the NH ? Strength, depth and competition for places.
And at least England now know who their 6N fullback should be.
And at least England now know who their 6N fullback should be.
England won the U20 world cup in 2013, 2014 and 2016. France won in 2018 and 2019 i.e their youth world champions who are now only 20/21 years old, while England's U20 world champions are now in their prime (3 teams!!).
Daly failed to straighten his running line and passed too early thus butchering two certain tries. School boy errors really.
Agree.
Seemed really low on confidence. I'm a Daly fan, but struggling to see his place in this team.
Seemed really low on confidence. I'm a Daly fan, but struggling to see his place in this team.
Just couldn't see Daly setting up any sort of attack. I know the game was a bit more open but when Malins came on he looked dangerous.
I think Mike Brown would be more exciting than Daly at Full back at the moment.
I think Mike Brown would be more exciting than Daly at Full back at the moment.
Yep, there should have been a straight forward 2 on 1 run in for Watson but Daly: I) did not fix the last defender; 2) did not straighten his line ; and 3) passed too early, allowing the last defender to not commit to tackling Daly & to drift onto to Watson- criminal!!
Yes I agree. Glad that was picked up, France held the line well and didn't commit but I was yelling at Daly to hold and create create the 2 on 1, basics really. I'm a fan of his but not at full back.
I was also screaming this at the TV. It's strange because he is normally so good at running the right lines! Call it an off day, he wasn't the only one...
Yeah the clearest was when the winger turned to commit to him but he just passed it straight away. if he just hold the ball longer the winger could never have turned back round to tackle Watson. Such a simple error. Also he runs back with the ball then does this on the spot sidestepping and loses all pace. the difference Malins made by just hitting the line at speed was clear.
England appear to be flat track bullies and play with little or no style or flair.
Great kick to convert a penalty by Daly. And another long one into touch.
Passing radar was all over the shop though
Passing radar was all over the shop though
Agreed, Daly is an outside centre...for goodness sake play him there!!!
Watson, when fully fit, has to play at 15. He has the X factor. Oppos would hate kicking to him. Mallins looked a prospect.
Daly does plenty of excellent work but too often wastes, chances usually by failing to commit the defence.
Daly does plenty of excellent work but too often wastes, chances usually by failing to commit the defence.
Nothing mentioned about the blatant Knock-on in the lead up to England's 'try'. Try should have been disallowed, and France should have been the real victors.
And they say VAR is bad in football. It seemed the lack of an intervention suited the narrative that England should win.
And they say VAR is bad in football. It seemed the lack of an intervention suited the narrative that England should win.
I am happy England can grind out results when the pressure is on. I am happy our forwards can match any team out there. But I too have been extremely bored watching England hoping for a spark of magic from one of our talented backs. And they are talented, but never get the chance to prove it because the ball very rarely gets past Farrell or Ford.
The forwards definitely didn't match The Bokke in the RWC final - move on 12 months against a French scratch B/C team; the English forwards only dominated the lineout. The forwards are great in the loose & at the breakdown, but yesterday they couldn't breach the French line after 10 phases from less than 1m; most mauls were stopped; scrum dominance was not as it should have been. Lacking grunt.
Indeed, South Africa won because they out muscled our pack.
People can complain about Youngd, Farrell et al, but backs who can win you a game when the pack are under that sort of pressure are very rare.
Wasnt all about Cole either, the pack was too lightweight.
People can complain about Youngd, Farrell et al, but backs who can win you a game when the pack are under that sort of pressure are very rare.
Wasnt all about Cole either, the pack was too lightweight.
Correct. But the performance of the respective packs in that single game cannot be held as the sole piece of evidence on which to judge them. On a different day, (say, not having just had to front up and beat Aus and NZ in successive knock-out games) England may have had parity or better. That's how sport works. Only a fool would try to claim England's pack is not excellent.
I am happy England can grind out results when the pressure is on. I am happy our forwards can match any team out there. But I too have been extremely bored watching England hoping for a spark of magic from one of our talented backs. And they are talented, but never get the chance to prove it because the ball very rarely gets past Farrell or Ford.
Poor article - too nice. Fails to call out how low in quality and entertainment that kick fest actually was. The sport is going backwards at a rate of knots
England should have murdered the France Extra B XV - but they didn't. The French team were magnificent. It seems that a few of those England players on display are in the twilight of their international careers.
I would like to see the TMO/Assistant Refs identify and penalise those who do not retire when a ball is kicked. Maybe we can get rid of the awful kicking tennis just by applying the rules.
I would like to see the TMO/Assistant Refs identify and penalise those who do not retire when a ball is kicked. Maybe we can get rid of the awful kicking tennis just by applying the rules.
England lack a move-it-up-the-middle man, in the mold of a Mickey Tindall or Carling - knees up, elbows pumping, in yer face.
The pack was found out by SA a year ago - where's the yeoman player in the mold of Corry, Easter, Hall, or Dooley in the modern game.
Too many spend too much time carping and ref / oppos and whooping decisions, rather than getting stuck in.
The pack was found out by SA a year ago - where's the yeoman player in the mold of Corry, Easter, Hall, or Dooley in the modern game.
Too many spend too much time carping and ref / oppos and whooping decisions, rather than getting stuck in.
An embarrassing WIN!
le bleu robbed!
le bleu robbed!
Some players have a few big seasons then fade out... personally I think Sarries was the wrong club for him... Brizzle could afford him when he left Wasps and Lam would get more out of Daly..
Last year just before RWC final - Dawson said that not one S.African would make the England squad or words to that effect. After beating a weakened Ireland & Wales he compared England to the All Blacks. I just can't take him seriously - he's the click-bate king.
England is on a good run against weakened opposition & but must probably improve significantly to beat the full French side in the 6N.
England is on a good run against weakened opposition & but must probably improve significantly to beat the full French side in the 6N.
What did Robbie Savage ever win?
England lack a move-it-up-the-middle man, in the mold of a Mickey Tindall or Carling - knees up, elbows pumping, in yer face.
The pack was found out by SA a year ago - where's the yeoman player in the mold of Corry, Easter, Hall, or Dooley in the modern game.
Too many spend too much time carping and ref / oppos and whooping decisions, rather than getting stuck in.
The pack was found out by SA a year ago - where's the yeoman player in the mold of Corry, Easter, Hall, or Dooley in the modern game.
Too many spend too much time carping and ref / oppos and whooping decisions, rather than getting stuck in.
I bet those 2000 Eng/Fra fans at twickenham would have preferred to be at Murrayfield this weekend instead...
Fiji reminding the world that professional rugby is supposed to be an "entertainment business".
Fiji reminding the world that professional rugby is supposed to be an "entertainment business".
Fiji missed the memo that sport is no longer about having fun and showing some entertainment.
Fiji were entertaining, and it’s a shame they had only one match to show off their brand of rugby.
I am hoping that it was the tournament format that led to the safety first, defensive kicking rugby rather than a more positive approach that the one off AI’s can bring. It was still great to see international rugby back, even if it wasn’t all about entertainment.
I am hoping that it was the tournament format that led to the safety first, defensive kicking rugby rather than a more positive approach that the one off AI’s can bring. It was still great to see international rugby back, even if it wasn’t all about entertainment.
pretty dire to watch even it was only 15 minutes on an "hour" highlight show on c4 with two crap presenters
i think all teams have become scared to play, certainly anywhrer near their own half. The rules now seem to heavily favour the defenders, where getting your hands on the ball for a millisecond results in a penalty for the defence. Theres no incentive for teams to throw it wide, where they may get potentially isolated.
But better enforcement off offside would help.
But better enforcement off offside would help.
I must have watched a different game from Dawson.. I don’t think any of the home nations will agree with his home bias.. any one of them are capable of living with and beating England! Deluged arrogant nonsense as usual!
Pity that hasn't happened recently then!
Some voices on here suggesting that England should have smashed France... have you forgotten that France have won the last 2 U21 world cups ? *And* have acquired the best defence coach in the NH ? Strength, depth and competition for places.
And at least England now know who their 6N fullback should be.
And at least England now know who their 6N fullback should be.
I am happy England can grind out results when the pressure is on. I am happy our forwards can match any team out there. But I too have been extremely bored watching England hoping for a spark of magic from one of our talented backs. And they are talented, but never get the chance to prove it because the ball very rarely gets past Farrell or Ford.
A little perspective David. They spent virtually the entire second half camped in their own 22, where they defended magnificently without any doubt. But they hardly 'played' brilliantly either. If Farrell had worn his kicking boots the game would have be comfortably over within the 80.
Players at this level should have the skills , it is the structure and tactics that need developing. Our 2nd team that would give the so called gun 15 a game, Malins ,Nowell James, Lawrence, Thorley, Simmons j, Robson, Genge, Cowan Dickie, Williams, Hill, Lawes, Willis, Dombrant, Simmonds s
I would LOVE for Matt Dawson to hold court in a rugby club and read out his latest script. As long as plenty of ales were had, I truly believe that all the posters on here would sound equally informative, inspired, outrageous and no double checking allowed.
God I miss post match three sheets to the wind conversations at your local Rugby club bar!
God I miss post match three sheets to the wind conversations at your local Rugby club bar!
What was disappointing was we never got on the front foot we where stopped dead by a strong defence compliments of Mr Edwards.Which meant we had very little attacking ball and Ford and Farrell where sat deep with no options but kick.We don’t seem to recognise when to attack and some of the passing when we do is not international class.But we won and France where the best side we’ve played so far.
England were very very lucky
You won't win RWCs playing like that, prob even not the 6N.
Beaver knows it, we all know it.
Big improvements in attacking intent needed.
Beaver knows it, we all know it.
Big improvements in attacking intent needed.
One of the reasons for this was surely that Jones continues to pick out of form players in the backs: Daley was most obvious example but he seems to be there more for his howitzer boot than attacking form - could he not have picked Watson at FB and had a look at one of our talented young wingers?
A couple of times runners didnt straighten up and passed too early failing to draw the man resulting in outside man getting tackled. Would prefer to see Watson at f/b Cockanasiga on the wing.
agree on Watson but Thorley next winger
England strolled it just like the All Blacks would.....@mattdawsontalkingcrap
People seem to forget where England were a few years ago. They now have a really solid, destructive Plan A. It's not always pretty, it won't satisfy the 'purists' but it gets results, and at times they have looked awesome.
The question is whether they have a Plan B, and we won't know the answer to that until they need to produce it.
How I wish Wales were in such a position
The question is whether they have a Plan B, and we won't know the answer to that until they need to produce it.
How I wish Wales were in such a position
Matt you fail 2 ask let alone answer questions fans have of Yoda & his on field team Youngs/F&F what is Plan B? For a group in camp for 4+ weeks played 4 games the lack of attacking moves shocking passing was criminal Jones needs to pick form players ditch those relying on past glories For all his success in improving England one GS poor 2021 needs another Otherwise thanks Eddie Hello Rob!
A couple of times runners didnt straighten up and passed too early failing to draw the man resulting in outside man getting tackled. Would prefer to see Watson at f/b Cockanasiga on the wing.
If the full French XV had played a scratch England B/C team, doing 'just enough' would not have been acceptable and it's not the mark of a good side; England did not click. Without a few dodgy reffing calls, England would/could have lost this game.
At the moment there is a huge strength in depth in both English and French rugby. The side France put out would have given the full side a run for their money, and England could easily pick a reserve 15 capable of running the first team close, off the top of my head, Williams, Dunn, Hepburn, Ewels, Attwood, Wilson, Willis, Simmonds, Spencer, Smith, Joe C, Devoto, Marchant, Thorley, Furbank.
Was with you till you mentioned Furbank NO!! Hammersley at Sale never mentioned a better bet at 15 As for Ewels I'd say both Stooke & McNally are better locks than he is Jones likes him because he puts his hand up"
Should return to the good old days when the tackled player had to release the ball immediately or suffer the consequences of 'the cherry blossom treatment' - led to more open watchable game and encourage tackling advantage
England won, but it was against a very inexperienced French team. Think England had just over 780 caps between them, the French just over 60 caps. All the pre match hype for England did not materialise, with Edwards looking after the French defence, they can only get better so England will have to develop some attacking flair quickly.
Maybe France lacked experience but not Talent. The French players are very good and played very well. England did not play well but their greater experience hepled them win the game in the end. Englands second choice XV would push the 1st XV too if they played to their best.
No, its the other way around, if anyone else does it its OK once England start doing it they are "destroying the whole of rugby"!
Massive hypocrisy!
Massive hypocrisy!
Regardless of whatever hypocrisy you perceive from your own media, when your head coach is slamming Ireland for kick and clap, then setting up his team to do exactly that two years later, THAT'S a whole new level of hypocrisy. Jones thinks he's the new Mourinho, pity everyone knew when he started spouting before the game about free flowing rugby England would be set up to do the exact opposite.
So, when England win against Ireland, Scotland and Wales, as the regularly do, it is invariably due to an imbalance of power in the pack. It really does therefore, beg the question, how a team composed of players that were taking to the field as U20’s up until very recently, can match them if not over power the England pack during that game?? ??????
Wales managed it two years ago. So it possible but i agree they need to find an attacking edge. I think that it will be easier to adopt and bring in. Only the French really played any attacking rugby this Autumn. No other team looked willing to play either unless the match meant nothing. Weather also didnt help.
Massive respect to France, they'll be favourites for the next World Cup. It was a pretty dreadful tournament - hopefully we get a few rule changes (caterpillar rucks, reduce the substitutions) to liven up the game.
People moaning about the officials should have watched our game against Harlequins last night (this isn’t excusing our performance by the way)
2 offside tries given and a missed headbutt from Chris Ashton on Tom Seabrook in the first half
Also seen a couple of Quins fans claiming that Lloyd Evans faked his injury when they did get their red, a very rich claim coming from them
2 offside tries given and a missed headbutt from Chris Ashton on Tom Seabrook in the first half
Also seen a couple of Quins fans claiming that Lloyd Evans faked his injury when they did get their red, a very rich claim coming from them
brilliant game that was. Really exciting for the neutral
A Gloucester fan complaining about a Referee. Some things don't change. I remember a few seasons ago I read all of the write ups on the Gloucester website and they didn't lose a single game that wasn't blamed on poor officials.
Just learn to enjoy the game.
Just learn to enjoy the game.
my concern is the reliance on plan a, there is no plan b,c etc. and a total lack of ability to switch to take advantage of whats in front of them. maybe once or twice all season have they taken advantage of a turnover etc and scored and usually its one individual that has done it. for france however the future looks bright they need to get some of these youngsters in the squad and shake things up
A loss would have been better as it means the cracks wouldn't be papered over.
Yet again the attack has faltered. England should have scored a try before half time by not just trucking the ball through the forwards. Also Daly butchered a try by not doing the basics, a simple running straight and passing later would have seen Watson score.
I'd like to see Malins at 15.
Yet again the attack has faltered. England should have scored a try before half time by not just trucking the ball through the forwards. Also Daly butchered a try by not doing the basics, a simple running straight and passing later would have seen Watson score.
I'd like to see Malins at 15.
Those saying we were lucky against this French team, what does that make Wales and Ireland. (who we beat fairly easily) Either France played very well (which they did) and England had an off day. Or England are terrible and got lucky, meaning Wales and Ireland have not got a chance against France.
I felt that England really missed a dominating presence in the backline. There was no-one like Tuilagi or Cokanasiga who was a genuine running threat, so it was too easy to defend against.
So, when England win against Ireland, Scotland and Wales, as the regularly do, it is invariably due to an imbalance of power in the pack. It really does therefore, beg the question, how a team composed of players that were taking to the field as U20’s up until very recently, can match them if not over power the England pack during that game?? ??????
So no power required just before half time then...????????
People moaning about the officials should have watched our game against Harlequins last night (this isn’t excusing our performance by the way)
2 offside tries given and a missed headbutt from Chris Ashton on Tom Seabrook in the first half
Also seen a couple of Quins fans claiming that Lloyd Evans faked his injury when they did get their red, a very rich claim coming from them
2 offside tries given and a missed headbutt from Chris Ashton on Tom Seabrook in the first half
Also seen a couple of Quins fans claiming that Lloyd Evans faked his injury when they did get their red, a very rich claim coming from them
A solid and destructive Plan A?
If you to only play in your opponents 22 and use only your forwards to pick, go, drive /maul over the line at least pick the players who are best at doing it.
Williams, LCD, Hepburn,Hill, Ewers and Simmonds x2 would have walked the ball over the French line at the end of the first half.
And you also have a 10 that can release his backs(only with a proper 9 in tow)
If you to only play in your opponents 22 and use only your forwards to pick, go, drive /maul over the line at least pick the players who are best at doing it.
Williams, LCD, Hepburn,Hill, Ewers and Simmonds x2 would have walked the ball over the French line at the end of the first half.
And you also have a 10 that can release his backs(only with a proper 9 in tow)
Possibly true, but the French Tight head was injured as he stopped Genge, by using his head and no arms, should have been a pen try and at least a yellow card.
One issue this tournament has been the quality of the officiating, the amount of obvious things being missed is ridiculous, especially with the TMO in real time. We micro analyse a forward pass but miss really blatant things seen on TV
One issue this tournament has been the quality of the officiating, the amount of obvious things being missed is ridiculous, especially with the TMO in real time. We micro analyse a forward pass but miss really blatant things seen on TV
Last year just before RWC final - Dawson said that not one S.African would make the England squad or words to that effect. After beating a weakened Ireland & Wales he compared England to the All Blacks. I just can't take him seriously - he's the click-bate king.
England is on a good run against weakened opposition & but must probably improve significantly to beat the full French side in the 6N.
England is on a good run against weakened opposition & but must probably improve significantly to beat the full French side in the 6N.
When did he say that?
I agree with you that Eng kicked the ball away before ANY thoughts otherwise. And some of the kicks appeared aimless, hoping for a mistake. Thats sad and negative.
I hate the words EJ uses. “Fans are disrespectful” because they dont like this style of winning.
TBH both sides should have won it in 80 minutes.
If it had been France what would he have said?
I hate the words EJ uses. “Fans are disrespectful” because they dont like this style of winning.
TBH both sides should have won it in 80 minutes.
If it had been France what would he have said?
When I was coaching my sons team, at U12's level. I would have subbed the player who did that, then discussed why he had felt that he should waste such a great opportunity to apply pressure and score, through a mindless act!
The forwards definitely didn't match The Bokke in the RWC final - move on 12 months against a French scratch B/C team; the English forwards only dominated the lineout. The forwards are great in the loose & at the breakdown, but yesterday they couldn't breach the French line after 10 phases from less than 1m; most mauls were stopped; scrum dominance was not as it should have been. Lacking grunt.
Peter Steph du Toit is the best 6 in world rugby, Etzebeth not too bad either.... the Boks haven’t seen anything this autumn from any of the home countries that will cause them any concern....
The Lions will have to box clever and I think our only chance is to beat the Boks out wide, make it a fast running game and tire their big lads out... get Lions back 3 on the ball with speed...
The Lions will have to box clever and I think our only chance is to beat the Boks out wide, make it a fast running game and tire their big lads out... get Lions back 3 on the ball with speed...
Farrell hadn't played any Rugby since August due to his band for "that" shocking tackle. He played like someone who was rusty and low on game time.
He now returns to Sarries who don't know when their games will re-start due to the uncertainty regarding the Championship.
I understand he is their captain but there must come a point where others are played ahead of him in these circumstances.
He now returns to Sarries who don't know when their games will re-start due to the uncertainty regarding the Championship.
I understand he is their captain but there must come a point where others are played ahead of him in these circumstances.
England won, but it was against a very inexperienced French team. Think England had just over 780 caps between them, the French just over 60 caps. All the pre match hype for England did not materialise, with Edwards looking after the French defence, they can only get better so England will have to develop some attacking flair quickly.
With Ireland and Wales seemingly weaker I agree it is England best chance of a Grand Slam with France and Scotland at home.
Also agree they’re not looking for attacking opportunities.
Malins and Robson included with Tuilagi back would create more dynamism.
Also agree they’re not looking for attacking opportunities.
Malins and Robson included with Tuilagi back would create more dynamism.
Don’t think anyone’s suggesting building a team around him but if he’s fit and available by 2022 and playing well enough, Jones would be hard pressed not to select him for 2023 World Cup.
Marcus Smith at 10 please
Anyone else like to see referees SHUT UP? Apart from calls they are obliged to make such as ‘use it’ or ‘advantage / over’ etc I don’t want to hear them repeatedly warning players not to infringe.
Just ping them and it soon stops! Calling once, twice and even three times on occasion is well into the realms of coaching...
Just ping them and it soon stops! Calling once, twice and even three times on occasion is well into the realms of coaching...
yet to see any referee take action for delays after repeated warnings, and Farrell must surely go over his kicking time repeatedly without reproach.
Eddie Jones is a smart operator, analyses the rules and focuses on how England can win most conclusively with the resources they've got. This currently means kicking away possession and pressuring the opposition into a mistake at the breakdown (how very 2005 Ireland!). However, eventually performances will drop off as the players eventually get bored out of their minds playing that way.
"...Eddie Jones' side are naturally going to be favourites in most matches for the next two or three years" - say no more!!
People moaning about the officials should have watched our game against Harlequins last night (this isn’t excusing our performance by the way)
2 offside tries given and a missed headbutt from Chris Ashton on Tom Seabrook in the first half
Also seen a couple of Quins fans claiming that Lloyd Evans faked his injury when they did get their red, a very rich claim coming from them
2 offside tries given and a missed headbutt from Chris Ashton on Tom Seabrook in the first half
Also seen a couple of Quins fans claiming that Lloyd Evans faked his injury when they did get their red, a very rich claim coming from them