Government to cut £1bn from rail budget
04/12/2020 | news | business | 281
The cut comes at a time when the industry is suffering from low passenger numbers due to the pandemic.
1
04/12/2020 11:16:48 64 7
bbc
Wondering if this has something to do with having to fund the latest in a series of spiralling costs for Crossrail?

Wouldn’t be surprising given how disastrously this has been managed, combined with the London-centric economy we have (and really need to move away from).
21
MB
04/12/2020 11:31:06 18 11
bbc
Best of it is, they now no Crossrail runs in the wrong direction, should be North to South.
210
04/12/2020 17:55:55 0 3
bbc
London centric? London, the South East and East subsidise the rest of the country - which spends more than it raises in taxes - to the tune of £35B a year. Without that subsidy the rest of the country would be in dire trouble. Be thankful for your subsidy! Move away from it? OK, but that means you lose that subsidy, still think it's a good idea?
2
04/12/2020 11:17:03 127 21
bbc
Saves many more billions by scrapping HS2 and using some of that money to fix the existing structure
6
04/12/2020 11:20:21 14 7
bbc
You mean fixing it again ...
8
04/12/2020 11:20:43 4 2
bbc
The government don't want to spend the money on anything else. That's the point.
18
04/12/2020 11:28:53 5 16
bbc
Not possible. HS2 is a Major Investment Project, it's not funded by the taxpayer, cancelling it does not make a single penny available for anything else.
130
04/12/2020 14:52:18 8 0
bbc
HS2 will add much needed extra capacity between London and Birmingham; there are frequent delays to travel at the moment.

It's utterly stupid to be cutting £1 billion in rail investment, especially when at the same time announcing increased road building; it seems the road lobby still owns the Tory Party.

It also contradicts Bozo's claims about policy to reduce our carbon output.
203
04/12/2020 17:44:44 0 1
bbc
HS2 will allow the West Coast mainline to have more freight trains running on it which will remove lots off lorries from the motorways.

Personally I'm not that keen on HS2 as it won't be very scenic with all those tunnels and the journey will be over far too quickly. I'd prefer if they restore the Colne to Skipton and the Boarders Railway from Tweedbank to Carlisle instead.
3
Bob
04/12/2020 11:18:01 2 14
bbc
They could start by filling in the channel tunnel, only 27 days to go Clingons!!
19
04/12/2020 11:28:54 7 1
bbc
Another manual job that lazy Brits wouldn't do anyway.
20
MB
04/12/2020 11:29:15 3 0
bbc
Mainly adults on here making sensible comments, sorry about this one.
4
04/12/2020 11:18:10 24 6
bbc
So an extra £16.5bn in defence spending to "extend Britain's influence" but £1bn less to extend Britain's rail infrastructure.
5
04/12/2020 11:18:49 16 9
bbc
Infrastructure spending cut.

U-turn on Tory manifesto. One of the many to come.
2
04/12/2020 11:17:03 127 21
bbc
Saves many more billions by scrapping HS2 and using some of that money to fix the existing structure
6
04/12/2020 11:20:21 14 7
bbc
You mean fixing it again ...
7
04/12/2020 11:20:28 13 3
bbc
For many years, during British Rail years in particular, the railways were starved of investment. Only in recent years has it started to catch up on that underinvestment. Well, seems we are going back in time. The end result will be a delay in providing longer platforms and trains so more overcrowding on services and no improvements in journey times - for a few more years!
35
04/12/2020 11:40:26 3 11
bbc
Rail is a 19th century technology trying to solve 21st century problem.

A fantastic way to transport goods and people compared to the barge and mud tracks in 1850, but the world has moved on!

It is simply not fit for purpose, except for commuting into large urban areas.

And Covid may already have sounded the death nell for mass commuting.
189
04/12/2020 17:17:26 0 0
bbc
That is why I always laugh when people want it Nationalised as if there was ever money for Rail when it was Nationalised. Just look at how it was funded and managed after it was nationalised. Terrible wages/working conditions everything done on the cheap however being one entity it was done cohesively which now it is spread around hundreds of companies is not the case

But there is no going back
2
04/12/2020 11:17:03 127 21
bbc
Saves many more billions by scrapping HS2 and using some of that money to fix the existing structure
8
04/12/2020 11:20:43 4 2
bbc
The government don't want to spend the money on anything else. That's the point.
9
04/12/2020 11:21:16 27 3
bbc
Austerity alive and kicking, a lot more cuts to come.
47
04/12/2020 11:50:53 20 4
bbc
But they said it was an end to austerity, you don't think they're lying chancers do you?
10
04/12/2020 11:21:23 8 5
bbc
Same day as an announcement on reducing emissions this cut seems to be disjointed by reducing the likelihood of people using the trains.

Can little Rishi make a plan that he can try and stick to for at least a few days, might help you know people trying to make big decisions.......
11
04/12/2020 11:22:17 4 16
bbc
Before anyone says anything about cancelling HS2, it is a Major Investment Project, it's not financed by the taxpayer and cancelling it won't make a single penny available for anything else, so forget that idea!
29
04/12/2020 11:35:35 3 1
bbc
Do tell Tel who is financing this, can you also add their cost of capital compared to say cost of borrowing for UK Govt, no didn't think so, sigh......
44
04/12/2020 11:49:36 2 1
bbc
Terry, where's this magic money tree that finances Major Investment Projects, we could use it for loads of stuff. Are there Unicorns too Tel?
58
04/12/2020 12:04:47 2 2
bbc
You must be very grateful to the EBC for providing you with a platform to post your false information Tio Terry.
12
04/12/2020 11:23:04 9 3
bbc
There'll be much less commuting post pandemic as so many are now more used to working from home. Businesses will save costs by having smaller offices etc, less travel. It's right that we invest in technology of the future not the past. Could rail travel to the extent we were used to be a thing of the past?
13
04/12/2020 11:23:47 23 4
bbc
If I had a pound for every time someone said cancel HS2 I'd have enough money to build it anyway.
14
04/12/2020 11:24:18 17 4
bbc
That is 1 way of screwing passengers, you know the companies will look for emergency increases in fares. Does make you wonder what goes through the head of the people making these decisions. Maybe we should ask kindergarten kids to take over they probably make a better choice.
15
MVP
04/12/2020 11:24:38 24 4
bbc
This is not the time to be cutting budgets for public transport

The UK has a commitment to reduce emissions and should be encouraging people to use the rail service rather than cars.
16
MB
04/12/2020 11:25:53 32 2
bbc
Clearly we can save tax payers money by not giving it to shareholders who do nothing to improve the service. Even the USA doesn't have a privately run rail network.
50
04/12/2020 11:58:50 2 11
bbc
AmTrak declares a consistent loss every year and operating losses of ~USD400M/yr. Do you really want such in public ownership to be paid for through increased taxation.
64
04/12/2020 12:12:58 0 0
bbc
Do tell me, when were the US and Canadian railraod companies nationalised?
Your first sentence is lacking evidence; your second is untrue.
Removed
11
04/12/2020 11:22:17 4 16
bbc
Before anyone says anything about cancelling HS2, it is a Major Investment Project, it's not financed by the taxpayer and cancelling it won't make a single penny available for anything else, so forget that idea!
2
04/12/2020 11:17:03 127 21
bbc
Saves many more billions by scrapping HS2 and using some of that money to fix the existing structure
18
04/12/2020 11:28:53 5 16
bbc
Not possible. HS2 is a Major Investment Project, it's not funded by the taxpayer, cancelling it does not make a single penny available for anything else.
31
04/12/2020 11:36:40 19 1
bbc
If HS2 isn't being funded by the taxpayer then please do let us know who is actually paying for it?
41
04/12/2020 11:46:37 9 1
bbc
I think that you need to check the facts ??? Government has already spent Bn on this project. Try naming the investors and how they are funding any of the work.
126
04/12/2020 14:42:25 7 2
bbc
Tio, you keep spouting this nonsense. How do you think its funded?!

It funded by grant-in-aid from the Government. where does the Government get its money from? The taxpayers.....
196
04/12/2020 17:27:42 1 0
bbc
HS2 is funded by Grant-in-Aid (G-i-A). See:
www.gov.uk/government/organisations/high-speed-two-limited
Grant-in-Aid is "a payment by a government department". That money comes directly or indirectly from us.
(G-i-A) is fully defined by the UK Government here:
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/654680/2017-09-27_Grant_Definitions.pdf
3
Bob
04/12/2020 11:18:01 2 14
bbc
They could start by filling in the channel tunnel, only 27 days to go Clingons!!
19
04/12/2020 11:28:54 7 1
bbc
Another manual job that lazy Brits wouldn't do anyway.
3
Bob
04/12/2020 11:18:01 2 14
bbc
They could start by filling in the channel tunnel, only 27 days to go Clingons!!
20
MB
04/12/2020 11:29:15 3 0
bbc
Mainly adults on here making sensible comments, sorry about this one.
1
04/12/2020 11:16:48 64 7
bbc
Wondering if this has something to do with having to fund the latest in a series of spiralling costs for Crossrail?

Wouldn’t be surprising given how disastrously this has been managed, combined with the London-centric economy we have (and really need to move away from).
21
MB
04/12/2020 11:31:06 18 11
bbc
Best of it is, they now no Crossrail runs in the wrong direction, should be North to South.
45
04/12/2020 11:50:06 6 0
bbc
That'll be Crossrail 2 if you're interested,
22
04/12/2020 11:31:34 12 6
bbc
Austerity by back door. Little cut here. Little from there. No pay rises here. Broken promises there.

But it is NOT austerity mark 2. Oh no BoJo would never allow that.
32
04/12/2020 11:37:05 5 7
bbc
Spending £9,4Bn instead of £10 ,Bn is still spending not a cut., as such.
23
04/12/2020 11:34:47 14 10
bbc
The privatized rail system created by the Evil Tories is an utter shambles. Now they cut a £1 billion off an already pathetic infrastructure budget?

Madness!

You put these idiots in power England.

You put a clown in charge of a Brexit Farce and it turned into a Pandemic Tragedy.

Business bust, jobs gone, public debt through the roof. Future generations will pay the price of your stupidity.
46
04/12/2020 11:50:38 5 11
bbc
You really are not having a good day, week, year ... or even life, it seems.

Still, we can all celebrate transitioning out of the EUSSR in a few days time.

yipeeeeeee !

(and, no, I don't care that you have a whinge-fest about it - in fact, it gladdens my heart)
147
04/12/2020 15:16:33 3 0
bbc
The tragic irony is that it was Corbyn who really put the clown in charge because he offered no credible alternative. He could also have made Brexit more palatable had he supported TM in her withdrawal bill.
Had the current Labour leadership been their 2 years ago, many outcomes might be very different.
Timing, as they say is everything, and we have Boris and his big majority because of Corbyn.
24
04/12/2020 11:19:07 30 9
bbc
It would be ridiculous to go ahead with HS2 at this point.
25
04/12/2020 11:21:13 13 6
bbc
And yet again we have an example of how we and future generations are going to pay very dearly for not doing what the very sensible Swedes did.

For some people private transport is necessary, but for most it is a truly evil blight on the planet. So we need to make all public transport as useful cheap and comfortable as possible. But the selfish rich think only about whether it will cost them tax.
26
04/12/2020 11:22:55 61 29
bbc
SCRAP HS2!!! NO ONE WANTS IT!
59
04/12/2020 12:05:42 33 14
bbc
I hope you're not as shouty when travelling on public transport. I tend to give people like you disapproving stares.
101
04/12/2020 13:46:44 10 1
bbc
The railway industry does.
129
04/12/2020 14:46:31 10 0
bbc
It's a populist claim but the fact is we desperately need extra rail capacity.
219
04/12/2020 18:49:14 3 1
bbc
Doubt you even use the train.
261
05/12/2020 11:27:46 1 0
bbc
Actually some people, who don’t happen to live in London, do want it.
269
05/12/2020 13:22:44 0 0
bbc
Yes they do!
All the people who will benefit when freight is priced off the road and has to go by rail. There is not enough capacity to do that at the moment. HGVs are wrecking towns and villages.
27
04/12/2020 11:35:04 84 19
bbc
Meanwhile the totally useles HS2 ploughs ahead at the eye watering waste of over £100Bn!. Capacity arguments, used as the business case is now even more dead in the water, are better addressed by proper investment in Network Rail now being deprived of it. You couldn't make it up.
40
04/12/2020 11:45:50 12 44
bbc
Do you know the difference between the way Major Investment Projects and other improvements are financed? Thought not.
190
04/12/2020 17:19:02 6 0
bbc
Yep it's a complete joke!!! Get rid of HS2 and improve the existing infrastructure.
28
04/12/2020 11:35:22 103 17
bbc
A drop in the ocean compared to the £100bn and counting being wasted on HS2.
Removed
11
04/12/2020 11:22:17 4 16
bbc
Before anyone says anything about cancelling HS2, it is a Major Investment Project, it's not financed by the taxpayer and cancelling it won't make a single penny available for anything else, so forget that idea!
29
04/12/2020 11:35:35 3 1
bbc
Do tell Tel who is financing this, can you also add their cost of capital compared to say cost of borrowing for UK Govt, no didn't think so, sigh......
30
04/12/2020 11:36:38 59 18
bbc
The best way of saving money would be to scrap HS2, which is not fit for purpose and will give no benefit to anybody.
33
Tex
04/12/2020 11:40:00 10 6
bbc
Plus it will reduce our Carbon footprint, as it will have a concrete bed, not sleepers on a gravel bed.
39
04/12/2020 11:44:29 7 4
bbc
Rubbish.
Treasury would not have agreed to progress if the Business Case did not show otherwise.
218
04/12/2020 18:48:20 1 0
bbc
Scrapping it, ripping up all contract and firing thousands of workers would cost more.

Just get it over with.
18
04/12/2020 11:28:53 5 16
bbc
Not possible. HS2 is a Major Investment Project, it's not funded by the taxpayer, cancelling it does not make a single penny available for anything else.
31
04/12/2020 11:36:40 19 1
bbc
If HS2 isn't being funded by the taxpayer then please do let us know who is actually paying for it?
114
04/12/2020 13:59:37 1 7
bbc
Check out how Major Investment Projects - not just HS2, Hinckley Point comes to mind - are financed. Government issued Bonds is one way - but also check out what the Business Case says, without that the Treasury would never have allowed the project to start.
149
PH
04/12/2020 15:20:26 0 0
bbc
The invisible man. The man who throws money into the air for Rishi to spend like water when he sees fit. And then it’s given back to the invisible man by Mr. Nobody. Back on planet Earth.....
22
04/12/2020 11:31:34 12 6
bbc
Austerity by back door. Little cut here. Little from there. No pay rises here. Broken promises there.

But it is NOT austerity mark 2. Oh no BoJo would never allow that.
32
04/12/2020 11:37:05 5 7
bbc
Spending £9,4Bn instead of £10 ,Bn is still spending not a cut., as such.
167
04/12/2020 16:00:30 0 0
bbc
I did sat little cut .
30
04/12/2020 11:36:38 59 18
bbc
The best way of saving money would be to scrap HS2, which is not fit for purpose and will give no benefit to anybody.
33
Tex
04/12/2020 11:40:00 10 6
bbc
Plus it will reduce our Carbon footprint, as it will have a concrete bed, not sleepers on a gravel bed.
34
04/12/2020 11:40:01 6 3
bbc
It would be better if the government set up an independent investigation into why infrastructure costs comparatively so much more than neighbouring developed countries. Land costs are extortionate and all the Risk Assessments/H&S measures, Method Statements, Impact Statements cost a fortune before even starting work and materials and procurement costs are much higher than they probably should be.
7
04/12/2020 11:20:28 13 3
bbc
For many years, during British Rail years in particular, the railways were starved of investment. Only in recent years has it started to catch up on that underinvestment. Well, seems we are going back in time. The end result will be a delay in providing longer platforms and trains so more overcrowding on services and no improvements in journey times - for a few more years!
35
04/12/2020 11:40:26 3 11
bbc
Rail is a 19th century technology trying to solve 21st century problem.

A fantastic way to transport goods and people compared to the barge and mud tracks in 1850, but the world has moved on!

It is simply not fit for purpose, except for commuting into large urban areas.

And Covid may already have sounded the death nell for mass commuting.
42
04/12/2020 11:48:42 5 1
bbc
Ever heard of freight? That's a greener way to transport goods. HS2 will free up extra freight capacity too.
163
04/12/2020 15:41:53 1 1
bbc
Not what most developed nations think, who are busy putting in thousands of miles of high speed track. Even the US is planning high speed rail links.

High speed rail is designed to get people out of planes, not commuting in urban areas.
36
04/12/2020 11:40:43 1 13
bbc
A non story where the BBC is trying to link overall spending to levelling up.

Next.
38
MB
04/12/2020 11:44:27 5 1
bbc
Of course it isn't, the two are clearly linked.
57
04/12/2020 12:03:57 0 0
bbc
The story is about leveling down.
37
MB
04/12/2020 11:43:42 4 15
bbc
HS2 is needed more than ever now as a good investment and large scale project that will create jobs and restart the economy. Far better than Trident and other useless spending in the past that created few jobs. Try reading Keynes about avoiding a lengthy recession.
71
04/12/2020 12:24:48 1 1
bbc
Trident has created about 15,000 jobs.
36
04/12/2020 11:40:43 1 13
bbc
A non story where the BBC is trying to link overall spending to levelling up.

Next.
38
MB
04/12/2020 11:44:27 5 1
bbc
Of course it isn't, the two are clearly linked.
30
04/12/2020 11:36:38 59 18
bbc
The best way of saving money would be to scrap HS2, which is not fit for purpose and will give no benefit to anybody.
39
04/12/2020 11:44:29 7 4
bbc
Rubbish.
Treasury would not have agreed to progress if the Business Case did not show otherwise.
51
04/12/2020 11:59:34 4 1
bbc
Business cases and what actually happens usually bear little resemblance particularly with high profile expensive public projects.
68
04/12/2020 12:19:18 8 2
bbc
A business case, made up guess in reality, I know someone that did them forvthe channel tunnel, numbers made to fit what customer wanted.

No busines case considered 20% shift to home working, and busines ending trios for Zoom. HS2 is dead in all common sense terms. Only corrupt goverment aiding mates left.
27
04/12/2020 11:35:04 84 19
bbc
Meanwhile the totally useles HS2 ploughs ahead at the eye watering waste of over £100Bn!. Capacity arguments, used as the business case is now even more dead in the water, are better addressed by proper investment in Network Rail now being deprived of it. You couldn't make it up.
40
04/12/2020 11:45:50 12 44
bbc
Do you know the difference between the way Major Investment Projects and other improvements are financed? Thought not.
77
04/12/2020 12:54:26 9 3
bbc
Could you enlighten us and explain as to how they are financed so we can make a rational judgment before commenting.
185
04/12/2020 17:09:54 2 2
bbc
Looks as if the majority of down markers don't either.

But everyone knows how to run a railway...

...until they actually have to
215
04/12/2020 18:21:14 1 0
bbc
My guess. Work out what the public will swallow then plough on knowing the final cost will be at least 4 times that!
18
04/12/2020 11:28:53 5 16
bbc
Not possible. HS2 is a Major Investment Project, it's not funded by the taxpayer, cancelling it does not make a single penny available for anything else.
41
04/12/2020 11:46:37 9 1
bbc
I think that you need to check the facts ??? Government has already spent Bn on this project. Try naming the investors and how they are funding any of the work.
116
04/12/2020 14:00:24 1 3
bbc
Please see my reply to Trip Hazard, above.
35
04/12/2020 11:40:26 3 11
bbc
Rail is a 19th century technology trying to solve 21st century problem.

A fantastic way to transport goods and people compared to the barge and mud tracks in 1850, but the world has moved on!

It is simply not fit for purpose, except for commuting into large urban areas.

And Covid may already have sounded the death nell for mass commuting.
42
04/12/2020 11:48:42 5 1
bbc
Ever heard of freight? That's a greener way to transport goods. HS2 will free up extra freight capacity too.
43
04/12/2020 11:45:37 8 10
bbc
All the idiots now screaming for HS2 to be scrapped might like to consider what a pathetic joke our rail system is compared to that of most developed countries. The UK needs a lot more of this. What we have belongs to the Victorian era.
66
04/12/2020 12:15:26 2 2
bbc
Trains belong in the Victorian era. Even HS2. Out of date before it is built. Mag lev. Even India has hyperloop plans.

In reality driverless cars replace all public transport. Door to door, unbeatable by any old fashioned track constrained, timetable limited, accessed by minuscule points, rail.
11
04/12/2020 11:22:17 4 16
bbc
Before anyone says anything about cancelling HS2, it is a Major Investment Project, it's not financed by the taxpayer and cancelling it won't make a single penny available for anything else, so forget that idea!
44
04/12/2020 11:49:36 2 1
bbc
Terry, where's this magic money tree that finances Major Investment Projects, we could use it for loads of stuff. Are there Unicorns too Tel?
21
MB
04/12/2020 11:31:06 18 11
bbc
Best of it is, they now no Crossrail runs in the wrong direction, should be North to South.
45
04/12/2020 11:50:06 6 0
bbc
That'll be Crossrail 2 if you're interested,
95
04/12/2020 13:22:17 1 2
bbc
Crossrail 2 isn't happening.
23
04/12/2020 11:34:47 14 10
bbc
The privatized rail system created by the Evil Tories is an utter shambles. Now they cut a £1 billion off an already pathetic infrastructure budget?

Madness!

You put these idiots in power England.

You put a clown in charge of a Brexit Farce and it turned into a Pandemic Tragedy.

Business bust, jobs gone, public debt through the roof. Future generations will pay the price of your stupidity.
46
04/12/2020 11:50:38 5 11
bbc
You really are not having a good day, week, year ... or even life, it seems.

Still, we can all celebrate transitioning out of the EUSSR in a few days time.

yipeeeeeee !

(and, no, I don't care that you have a whinge-fest about it - in fact, it gladdens my heart)
54
04/12/2020 12:00:26 3 1
bbc
Jolly good for you!

Criticizing people who cut taxes for the rich and benefits for the poor - the Evil Tories (aka the Christmas Eve Scrooges) - is a vocation of mine which I enjoy very much too.

Under their watch food banks and homelessness have increased.

While ex servicemen sleep in doorways in London, billionaires have buy-to-leave mansions in London.

That's Evil Tory ideology!
9
04/12/2020 11:21:16 27 3
bbc
Austerity alive and kicking, a lot more cuts to come.
47
04/12/2020 11:50:53 20 4
bbc
But they said it was an end to austerity, you don't think they're lying chancers do you?
103
04/12/2020 13:48:02 0 3
bbc
No, this is not austerity.
177
04/12/2020 16:30:20 0 2
bbc
The last true austerity was in during the 1940s and 1950s. What people call 'austerity' today, from 2008, was only a reduction of the rate at which public spending was growing.
48
04/12/2020 11:55:32 31 6
bbc
I forecast when HS2 was first muted that the companies that were pushing for it would not be in business by the time it was completed. Now with the results of the pandemic and the fact that a lot of people can work from home I am probably right. It only continues because there are probably too many vested interests in the govt who probably have shares in the companies.
93
04/12/2020 13:18:47 11 4
bbc
Quite. Kleptocracy or Chumocracy? Both, I'd say.
143
04/12/2020 15:07:41 0 0
bbc
But if those companies would be out of business by the time it's completed, they're a bit misguided having shares in them aren't they? One part of your prediction must therefore be wrong.
49
04/12/2020 11:58:11 38 9
bbc
HS2 is now obsolete, the need for it replaced by digital communication technology. Just like Crossrail, HS2 would be an ever escalating financial burden which the country cannot afford. In the current financial climate a small percentage of the "rolling," HS2 budget distributed across the UK would be better value. Sadly political vanity gets in the way.
53
04/12/2020 12:00:24 16 22
bbc
Cancelling HS2 won't make a single penny available for anything else. Check out how Major Investment Projects are financed.
16
MB
04/12/2020 11:25:53 32 2
bbc
Clearly we can save tax payers money by not giving it to shareholders who do nothing to improve the service. Even the USA doesn't have a privately run rail network.
50
04/12/2020 11:58:50 2 11
bbc
AmTrak declares a consistent loss every year and operating losses of ~USD400M/yr. Do you really want such in public ownership to be paid for through increased taxation.
86
04/12/2020 13:04:32 5 1
bbc
Better a loss of public money instead of dividends to private shareholders and so-called "executives" who pocked massive bonusses!
155
04/12/2020 15:30:34 3 0
bbc
Strange how whenever the 'operator of last resort' (nationalisation by another name) took over failed private services customer satisfaction and revenues to the Government increased.

Are you equally in favour of privatising the roads I wonder?
39
04/12/2020 11:44:29 7 4
bbc
Rubbish.
Treasury would not have agreed to progress if the Business Case did not show otherwise.
51
04/12/2020 11:59:34 4 1
bbc
Business cases and what actually happens usually bear little resemblance particularly with high profile expensive public projects.
52
04/12/2020 12:00:17 34 8
bbc
Government to cut £1bn from rail budget.....but goes full speed ahead with the totally reckless HS2 project, which will bankrupt the country as Moses couldn't deliver it on time or within budget.
49
04/12/2020 11:58:11 38 9
bbc
HS2 is now obsolete, the need for it replaced by digital communication technology. Just like Crossrail, HS2 would be an ever escalating financial burden which the country cannot afford. In the current financial climate a small percentage of the "rolling," HS2 budget distributed across the UK would be better value. Sadly political vanity gets in the way.
53
04/12/2020 12:00:24 16 22
bbc
Cancelling HS2 won't make a single penny available for anything else. Check out how Major Investment Projects are financed.
62
04/12/2020 12:11:43 4 1
bbc
It would ease borrowing capability. Certainly not spending it is a huge positive.
69
04/12/2020 12:20:11 6 1
bbc
No, but putting that CapEx investment into other sustainable, long term, tech-led projects will potentially be far more beneficial. The world has shifted massively since HS2 was first considered 10 yrs ago, Without it, by the time HS2 turns a profit the rest of the transport infrastructure, (including projects like HS2) will need a massive injection of re-investment and the cycle begins again.
72
04/12/2020 12:24:50 3 1
bbc
I'm sure there are 'creative' ways to curtail the spend or reallocate the funding. The UK certainly can't afford this ever increasing cost burden.
46
04/12/2020 11:50:38 5 11
bbc
You really are not having a good day, week, year ... or even life, it seems.

Still, we can all celebrate transitioning out of the EUSSR in a few days time.

yipeeeeeee !

(and, no, I don't care that you have a whinge-fest about it - in fact, it gladdens my heart)
54
04/12/2020 12:00:26 3 1
bbc
Jolly good for you!

Criticizing people who cut taxes for the rich and benefits for the poor - the Evil Tories (aka the Christmas Eve Scrooges) - is a vocation of mine which I enjoy very much too.

Under their watch food banks and homelessness have increased.

While ex servicemen sleep in doorways in London, billionaires have buy-to-leave mansions in London.

That's Evil Tory ideology!
55
04/12/2020 12:01:47 40 15
bbc
Yep this is just the start.

Our rail network is shocking compared to Europe, oh and we have the highest ticket prices too. Am sure all the Brexiteers are happy to keeo spending more of their hard earned cash on a worsening service.

But a drop in the ocean compared to next year Brexit impact. Govt pricing people off the road, pushing electric without infrastructure and cutting rail. Brilliant.
83
04/12/2020 13:02:58 21 8
bbc
You are blaming those who wanted to leave the e.u. for this debacle called HS2?
On your bike mate--this is purely politicians self-promotion. Ask 1 million of the public if they want this stupid rail line and I'll bet you get 90% region of "no's"! Nowt to do with leaving the e.u.!
115
04/12/2020 14:00:03 1 0
bbc
Our rail infrastructure is by no means the worst in Europe, there are far worse. Stop spreading fake news and Facebook science ??
121
04/12/2020 14:13:18 1 0
bbc
"Am sure all the Brexiteers are happy to keeo spending more of their hard earned cash on a worsening service"?
I was annoyed we handed so much money over to the EU to modernise other Countries whilst our own infrastructure was denied funding. New roads in Poland, Hungary, 6x times as much motorways in Spain - ours just crumbling and potholed. Yes to Brexit & more so seeing how our friends behave
186
04/12/2020 17:13:14 0 0
bbc
The cost per passenger kilometre in the UK is very reasonable compared to most of Europe. Large Government subsidies overt and covert however takes the bulk of the costs and funding. Here there was a massive shift into 'User Pays' which is why the cost to the passenger appears so high.
56
04/12/2020 12:03:10 24 0
bbc
price rises here we come. am surprised anyone can afford to use a train these days.
36
04/12/2020 11:40:43 1 13
bbc
A non story where the BBC is trying to link overall spending to levelling up.

Next.
57
04/12/2020 12:03:57 0 0
bbc
The story is about leveling down.
11
04/12/2020 11:22:17 4 16
bbc
Before anyone says anything about cancelling HS2, it is a Major Investment Project, it's not financed by the taxpayer and cancelling it won't make a single penny available for anything else, so forget that idea!
58
04/12/2020 12:04:47 2 2
bbc
You must be very grateful to the EBC for providing you with a platform to post your false information Tio Terry.
26
04/12/2020 11:22:55 61 29
bbc
SCRAP HS2!!! NO ONE WANTS IT!
59
04/12/2020 12:05:42 33 14
bbc
I hope you're not as shouty when travelling on public transport. I tend to give people like you disapproving stares.
60
04/12/2020 12:10:07 10 7
bbc
Cut out most of it. Train use is going to collapse, with a sizeable proportion getting to work from home and save a fortune for people and companies. Business not going to pay for trips when they got used to Zoom etc. The entire HS2 can be scrapoed too. Time just pased rail by into a canal like useage, holiday makers only. Dead Victorian tech. We went on line.
65
04/12/2020 12:14:52 11 4
bbc
How many ships containers can you send down your FO cable?
61
04/12/2020 12:10:19 28 0
bbc
…and that budget cut will be passed on to travellers in the form of the cost of fares hiked up yet again with no tangible or visible improvement to the service.
53
04/12/2020 12:00:24 16 22
bbc
Cancelling HS2 won't make a single penny available for anything else. Check out how Major Investment Projects are financed.
62
04/12/2020 12:11:43 4 1
bbc
It would ease borrowing capability. Certainly not spending it is a huge positive.
97
04/12/2020 13:41:09 0 1
bbc
No. The government issues Bonds with a long term payment date, the whole amount is not borrowed at one time. the annual borrowing is not great.
63
04/12/2020 12:12:35 18 6
bbc
Emissions targets and rail cuts, not exactly complicated to see what's going on. This tory gov really is a mess and has sent the UK into a downward spiral of chaos.
16
MB
04/12/2020 11:25:53 32 2
bbc
Clearly we can save tax payers money by not giving it to shareholders who do nothing to improve the service. Even the USA doesn't have a privately run rail network.
64
04/12/2020 12:12:58 0 0
bbc
Do tell me, when were the US and Canadian railraod companies nationalised?
Your first sentence is lacking evidence; your second is untrue.
60
04/12/2020 12:10:07 10 7
bbc
Cut out most of it. Train use is going to collapse, with a sizeable proportion getting to work from home and save a fortune for people and companies. Business not going to pay for trips when they got used to Zoom etc. The entire HS2 can be scrapoed too. Time just pased rail by into a canal like useage, holiday makers only. Dead Victorian tech. We went on line.
65
04/12/2020 12:14:52 11 4
bbc
How many ships containers can you send down your FO cable?
43
04/12/2020 11:45:37 8 10
bbc
All the idiots now screaming for HS2 to be scrapped might like to consider what a pathetic joke our rail system is compared to that of most developed countries. The UK needs a lot more of this. What we have belongs to the Victorian era.
66
04/12/2020 12:15:26 2 2
bbc
Trains belong in the Victorian era. Even HS2. Out of date before it is built. Mag lev. Even India has hyperloop plans.

In reality driverless cars replace all public transport. Door to door, unbeatable by any old fashioned track constrained, timetable limited, accessed by minuscule points, rail.
94
04/12/2020 13:19:13 1 0
bbc
Yes they have Mag Lev in China, but can't afford to run it at full speed as it uses too much electricity.
67
04/12/2020 12:19:04 36 4
bbc
They have just given Crossrail another £800m, another example of how badly out of control that project has gone.
70
04/12/2020 12:24:26 29 6
bbc
It is in the South so they will spend whatever they want.
Removed
39
04/12/2020 11:44:29 7 4
bbc
Rubbish.
Treasury would not have agreed to progress if the Business Case did not show otherwise.
68
04/12/2020 12:19:18 8 2
bbc
A business case, made up guess in reality, I know someone that did them forvthe channel tunnel, numbers made to fit what customer wanted.

No busines case considered 20% shift to home working, and busines ending trios for Zoom. HS2 is dead in all common sense terms. Only corrupt goverment aiding mates left.
53
04/12/2020 12:00:24 16 22
bbc
Cancelling HS2 won't make a single penny available for anything else. Check out how Major Investment Projects are financed.
69
04/12/2020 12:20:11 6 1
bbc
No, but putting that CapEx investment into other sustainable, long term, tech-led projects will potentially be far more beneficial. The world has shifted massively since HS2 was first considered 10 yrs ago, Without it, by the time HS2 turns a profit the rest of the transport infrastructure, (including projects like HS2) will need a massive injection of re-investment and the cycle begins again.
99
04/12/2020 13:42:27 0 1
bbc
If you think that is true you should be able to put together a Business Case the Treasury will be able to accept. Why don't you try it?
239
04/12/2020 20:51:27 1 0
bbc
Cars will be electric, driverless and might be some flying. It would be a £20 return journey to Nottingham to London straight with a family of four.
Contrary, drive to the station, pay exorbitant parking charges, pay £200 for the ticket, get off 10 minutes earlier, use dirty underground to the final destination and come back same way. Your car might be vandalized/fined in the parking lot.
67
04/12/2020 12:19:04 36 4
bbc
They have just given Crossrail another £800m, another example of how badly out of control that project has gone.
70
04/12/2020 12:24:26 29 6
bbc
It is in the South so they will spend whatever they want.
233
04/12/2020 20:27:48 0 0
bbc
Yawn.....Go eat ya pigeon pie they Dinosaur
37
MB
04/12/2020 11:43:42 4 15
bbc
HS2 is needed more than ever now as a good investment and large scale project that will create jobs and restart the economy. Far better than Trident and other useless spending in the past that created few jobs. Try reading Keynes about avoiding a lengthy recession.
71
04/12/2020 12:24:48 1 1
bbc
Trident has created about 15,000 jobs.
53
04/12/2020 12:00:24 16 22
bbc
Cancelling HS2 won't make a single penny available for anything else. Check out how Major Investment Projects are financed.
72
04/12/2020 12:24:50 3 1
bbc
I'm sure there are 'creative' ways to curtail the spend or reallocate the funding. The UK certainly can't afford this ever increasing cost burden.
100
04/12/2020 13:45:14 0 1
bbc
Try convincing the Treasury that you have a project, build a Business Case and let's see where you get with it. The funding will come from yet to be issued government bonds, the money currently is not available for anything else.
73
04/12/2020 12:34:34 10 4
bbc
No doubt the North will bear the brunt of these cuts meanwhile the never ending gravy train of cross rail and HS2 will continue unabated for London and the South East.
Levelling up pull the other one.
84
04/12/2020 13:03:37 7 5
bbc
Whilst one end of HS2 is in London I wouldn't say that it is in the South East at all!
105
04/12/2020 13:50:39 1 0
bbc
I believe if you read the article you will find that is not the case.
74
04/12/2020 12:46:03 10 2
bbc
£100bn spent on Hugely Stupid 2 has to paid for somehow , given the negative return on investment it will produce
82
04/12/2020 13:02:26 6 8
bbc
You need to check up on how Major Investment Projects are financed, they are not financed by the taxpayer.
75
04/12/2020 12:47:32 1 0
bbc
It was inevitable that cuts had to be made somewhere. And inevitable that some groups were going to be disappointed, that's the nature of cuts. It's a small cut in the larger picture. Let's wait and see where the money is being spent. It's too far down the line to cancel crossrail and HS2. If he has any sense then a large part of it will be spent on levelling up.
184
04/12/2020 17:05:56 1 0
bbc
The most sensible reply I've read on here so far, and a Beatle fan too! :-)
76
04/12/2020 12:50:11 3 6
bbc
Geoff Brown, alias 'The Local Bore, You Can't Ignore,' writes: It may sound extreme to some but I'm sick of money being poured into trains and tracks which fail to meet their purpose. We're living in latter part of 2020, not 1920 and they should tear up the tracks, using the space for electric car routes. Remember, rail is our priciest travel too!
40
04/12/2020 11:45:50 12 44
bbc
Do you know the difference between the way Major Investment Projects and other improvements are financed? Thought not.
77
04/12/2020 12:54:26 9 3
bbc
Could you enlighten us and explain as to how they are financed so we can make a rational judgment before commenting.
118
04/12/2020 14:02:02 3 8
bbc
You could Google it yourself!
78
04/12/2020 12:56:34 11 2
bbc
Even before Covid the justification for HS2 was, at best, thin.

No it has no purpose, scrap it.
79
04/12/2020 12:57:56 4 2
bbc
This at the same time another overspend on the London-only underground line was projected to be in the region of £850,000,000! Absolutely disgraceful!
80
04/12/2020 12:59:33 11 4
bbc
Whilst spending £100Bn plus on HS2?
What a complete JOKE !!!!
81
04/12/2020 13:00:59 0 2
bbc
Austerity
74
04/12/2020 12:46:03 10 2
bbc
£100bn spent on Hugely Stupid 2 has to paid for somehow , given the negative return on investment it will produce
82
04/12/2020 13:02:26 6 8
bbc
You need to check up on how Major Investment Projects are financed, they are not financed by the taxpayer.
139
04/12/2020 15:04:19 0 0
bbc
Grant-In-Aid funding is money from the gov/taxpayer
55
04/12/2020 12:01:47 40 15
bbc
Yep this is just the start.

Our rail network is shocking compared to Europe, oh and we have the highest ticket prices too. Am sure all the Brexiteers are happy to keeo spending more of their hard earned cash on a worsening service.

But a drop in the ocean compared to next year Brexit impact. Govt pricing people off the road, pushing electric without infrastructure and cutting rail. Brilliant.
83
04/12/2020 13:02:58 21 8
bbc
You are blaming those who wanted to leave the e.u. for this debacle called HS2?
On your bike mate--this is purely politicians self-promotion. Ask 1 million of the public if they want this stupid rail line and I'll bet you get 90% region of "no's"! Nowt to do with leaving the e.u.!
73
04/12/2020 12:34:34 10 4
bbc
No doubt the North will bear the brunt of these cuts meanwhile the never ending gravy train of cross rail and HS2 will continue unabated for London and the South East.
Levelling up pull the other one.
84
04/12/2020 13:03:37 7 5
bbc
Whilst one end of HS2 is in London I wouldn't say that it is in the South East at all!
85
04/12/2020 13:04:16 3 4
bbc
Rail passenger trains are a social service and should be run solely for the benefit of the end user, ie the passenger. They should not be run for profit irrespective of who that mught be, business, state or trade unions. They should be axing all bar maintainence for existing highways, and spending on public transport. The planet does not need private convenience or "sporting" motoring
96
04/12/2020 13:34:23 1 1
bbc
no they are not they benefit large corporations in cities in centralised systems and everyone else has to pay for it. Gone are the days of choice between rail or donkey! It is an expensive infrastructure that benefits the few.
50
04/12/2020 11:58:50 2 11
bbc
AmTrak declares a consistent loss every year and operating losses of ~USD400M/yr. Do you really want such in public ownership to be paid for through increased taxation.
86
04/12/2020 13:04:32 5 1
bbc
Better a loss of public money instead of dividends to private shareholders and so-called "executives" who pocked massive bonusses!
87
04/12/2020 13:04:49 5 2
bbc
Makes sense only if HS2 is mothballed.
92
04/12/2020 13:18:44 6 1
bbc
Scrapped......
88
04/12/2020 13:07:34 3 3
bbc
Somehow Rishi didn't mention this during his update last week, how convenient.

After all it's so easy to forget a cool £bn.

Otherwise known as loose change at HM Treasury...
89
04/12/2020 13:10:41 2 0
bbc
The government should be trying to get more freight back on to the rails. If they want to cut emissions, it makes sense to get more long distance freight back on to the rails, rather than having 100's of lorries driving up and down the country, just use them for the final link.
111
04/12/2020 13:53:54 3 2
bbc
Agreed, one reason why we need HS2. Through express services can use HS2 making space on the existing Classic lines for more freight services.
90
04/12/2020 13:14:44 1 5
bbc
Should cut it to zero. It was sold off into private hands so why are the public still funding decades later.
109
04/12/2020 13:52:36 2 0
bbc
No, it's all state owned, Networkrail owns the infrastructure.
91
04/12/2020 13:15:06 7 3
bbc
More reason to scrap HS2 - spend funds on increasing capacity of all existing trainlines (electrification, signaling & longer platforms/trains)

Would still have spare cash to accelerate role out of 5G & superfast broadband (increasing WfH & reducing demand on trainlines/increasing capacity?) & to build proposed RR nuclear plants (reducing emissions & securing infrastructure in public ownership)
108
04/12/2020 13:51:53 3 6
bbc
Cancelling HS2 would not make a single penny available for anything else. Check up on how Major Investment Projects are financed.
87
04/12/2020 13:04:49 5 2
bbc
Makes sense only if HS2 is mothballed.
92
04/12/2020 13:18:44 6 1
bbc
Scrapped......
48
04/12/2020 11:55:32 31 6
bbc
I forecast when HS2 was first muted that the companies that were pushing for it would not be in business by the time it was completed. Now with the results of the pandemic and the fact that a lot of people can work from home I am probably right. It only continues because there are probably too many vested interests in the govt who probably have shares in the companies.
93
04/12/2020 13:18:47 11 4
bbc
Quite. Kleptocracy or Chumocracy? Both, I'd say.
66
04/12/2020 12:15:26 2 2
bbc
Trains belong in the Victorian era. Even HS2. Out of date before it is built. Mag lev. Even India has hyperloop plans.

In reality driverless cars replace all public transport. Door to door, unbeatable by any old fashioned track constrained, timetable limited, accessed by minuscule points, rail.
94
04/12/2020 13:19:13 1 0
bbc
Yes they have Mag Lev in China, but can't afford to run it at full speed as it uses too much electricity.
45
04/12/2020 11:50:06 6 0
bbc
That'll be Crossrail 2 if you're interested,
95
04/12/2020 13:22:17 1 2
bbc
Crossrail 2 isn't happening.
117
04/12/2020 14:01:15 4 1
bbc
Yet.
85
04/12/2020 13:04:16 3 4
bbc
Rail passenger trains are a social service and should be run solely for the benefit of the end user, ie the passenger. They should not be run for profit irrespective of who that mught be, business, state or trade unions. They should be axing all bar maintainence for existing highways, and spending on public transport. The planet does not need private convenience or "sporting" motoring
96
04/12/2020 13:34:23 1 1
bbc
no they are not they benefit large corporations in cities in centralised systems and everyone else has to pay for it. Gone are the days of choice between rail or donkey! It is an expensive infrastructure that benefits the few.
62
04/12/2020 12:11:43 4 1
bbc
It would ease borrowing capability. Certainly not spending it is a huge positive.
97
04/12/2020 13:41:09 0 1
bbc
No. The government issues Bonds with a long term payment date, the whole amount is not borrowed at one time. the annual borrowing is not great.
98
04/12/2020 13:36:30 1 1
bbc
Surely if rail is privatised then there should be no taxpayer money going toward it.
106
04/12/2020 13:50:41 2 1
bbc
It's not privatised. Networkrail, a government owned company, owns the infrastructure and the Train Operators are now paid a fixed fee to run the services on behalf of the government.
107
04/12/2020 13:51:36 2 0
bbc
Only the services are privatised. The infrastructure is still state-owned. Its been that way for over 20 years.
69
04/12/2020 12:20:11 6 1
bbc
No, but putting that CapEx investment into other sustainable, long term, tech-led projects will potentially be far more beneficial. The world has shifted massively since HS2 was first considered 10 yrs ago, Without it, by the time HS2 turns a profit the rest of the transport infrastructure, (including projects like HS2) will need a massive injection of re-investment and the cycle begins again.
99
04/12/2020 13:42:27 0 1
bbc
If you think that is true you should be able to put together a Business Case the Treasury will be able to accept. Why don't you try it?
72
04/12/2020 12:24:50 3 1
bbc
I'm sure there are 'creative' ways to curtail the spend or reallocate the funding. The UK certainly can't afford this ever increasing cost burden.
100
04/12/2020 13:45:14 0 1
bbc
Try convincing the Treasury that you have a project, build a Business Case and let's see where you get with it. The funding will come from yet to be issued government bonds, the money currently is not available for anything else.