Coronavirus: Government publishes data behind stricter tiers
30/11/2020 | news | politics | 1,337
Some Conservative backbenchers have threaten to vote against the plan for England on Tuesday.
1
30/11/2020 17:56:01 40 22
bbc
Tiers of a clown...
3
30/11/2020 17:57:02 8 6
bbc
There's no one else around.
260
Ish
30/11/2020 19:55:21 0 4
bbc
Please do not drag the name of one of my favourite records of all time into this sub juvenile comments page.
2
30/11/2020 17:56:54 6 4
bbc
Any chance of a summary or some key points. Not really sure we can have our say without any details...
4
IJB
30/11/2020 17:58:21 15 20
bbc
From the BBC, it will have to be negative and anti government
1
30/11/2020 17:56:01 40 22
bbc
Tiers of a clown...
3
30/11/2020 17:57:02 8 6
bbc
There's no one else around.
262
Ish
30/11/2020 19:56:42 0 1
bbc
It's "When there's no-one around".
402
lai
30/11/2020 21:23:04 1 1
bbc
But there’s a smile on their face.. only there just to fool the public..
2
30/11/2020 17:56:54 6 4
bbc
Any chance of a summary or some key points. Not really sure we can have our say without any details...
4
IJB
30/11/2020 17:58:21 15 20
bbc
From the BBC, it will have to be negative and anti government
156
30/11/2020 18:52:08 2 1
bbc
Its called the news...
5
30/11/2020 18:00:48 14 14
bbc
The lock down has always been based on protecting NHS , which is the bottom line. Any other basis, like protecting the hospitality industry or Cost Benefit Analysis, bears no comparison.
8
30/11/2020 18:05:22 14 4
bbc
Surely the point of the cost-benefit analysis is to work out whether it bears comparison? The decrease in life expectancy due to poverty is very significant, so the economic damage needs to be factored in
14
IJB
30/11/2020 18:07:21 6 4
bbc
Well said, it's about time the clowns flouting the rules were named and shamed, fined, locked up and strung up, keeping a few pubs, coffee shops and nail bars open is ridiculous
33
30/11/2020 18:13:10 0 6
bbc
But the tier allocation doesn’t support this. South East England is mostly T2 with Kent in T3. Ventilator patients around 30% of April peak, weekly deaths 2.1% above 5yr average. What are we protecting the NHS from? Looks to me like a draconian measure with little justification
6
30/11/2020 18:02:03 15 12
bbc
There will still be issues in Jan&Feb so a tiered approach is still needed. The alternative is a further lockdown between mid Jan and early Mar which still might happen if people mess with the rules.
595
30/11/2020 22:01:57 2 1
bbc
We will get another lockdown in January/Feb with or without the Tier system.
7
30/11/2020 18:02:39 184 56
bbc
Lots of hospitality venues with no food offering will be obliterated unless further support is forthcoming. Tory break up of a key part of our social fabric, particularly, yes you guessed it, in the North of England. The necessary support would be a drop in the ocean compared to what is being spent on testing and track & trace.
16
30/11/2020 18:08:07 59 73
bbc
Real question is how easily and quickly can the pubs and restaurants be restarted (possibly under new ownership).

I assume the demand will be there on the vaccine gets rolled out.
18
30/11/2020 18:08:35 16 46
bbc
So rich are the north it seems they only live on eating out and drinking in pubs at exorbitant costs. If we are to believe your northern whining. Strange as I thought the London set were the eating out partying rich hedonists! Still any excuse made up for free money from other people's tax pockets into the future I guess goes.
100
30/11/2020 18:32:50 18 16
bbc
Yeah, the evil Tories want to close all the pubs & clubs, despite the owners of them being mostly Tory supporters & in the case of the brewing industry, big donators to Tory coffers.

I've never yet worked out the twisted "logic" used by the left.
133
30/11/2020 18:45:48 22 6
bbc
You are portraying the north as being dependant on pubs as a 'key part of societal fabric'
I'm a northerner and don't set foot in a pub more than 2-3 times a year. There are better things to do.
The days of a pub on every corner are long gone
250
DSA
30/11/2020 19:48:56 4 24
bbc
So you can't manage without a pint then.

Would you prefer a pint and a nasty disease for Xmas?

That's the alternative.
252
30/11/2020 19:51:13 29 4
bbc
People whine about alcohol, nothing to do with that, I can drink what I want at home. Walk down Winchester high street- 60% pubs, bars, restaurants. Same in most towns. These places keep the UK going, we make nothing anymore. Kill off the service industries, no students get jobs to help pay their stupid fees, high streets become ghost towns etc. Getting this back will take decades
348
30/11/2020 21:10:01 7 11
bbc
Really? Pubs, bars and restaraunts are 'key' part of our social fabric. Get grip, yes their fun but essential - no. Food, healthcare, public safety - now that's essential
811
30/11/2020 23:13:14 1 0
bbc
Does anyone every consider that the hospitality industry will be one of the first to be cut as people stop going out post pandemic as they can't afford it? Who'll get the blame for that? I like a drink as much as anyone but if it comes down to making savings it will be the first to go. So why chuck a fortune at it now? It's just another waste of money on furlough. Wasted money - Insanity prevails!
01/12/2020 11:21:52 0 0
bbc
"Tory break up of a key part of our social fabric

Why "Tory"? Labour are not voting against these measures. Sir Kier wanted a full national lockdown only a month or so ago. Equally, look at Wales, are they Tories? Then, look at Germany, France et al. - are they all Tories too? And across the pond, look at Canada, it' in full Lockdown. Justin Truedeu, is he a Tory

Question policy, not persuasion.
5
30/11/2020 18:00:48 14 14
bbc
The lock down has always been based on protecting NHS , which is the bottom line. Any other basis, like protecting the hospitality industry or Cost Benefit Analysis, bears no comparison.
8
30/11/2020 18:05:22 14 4
bbc
Surely the point of the cost-benefit analysis is to work out whether it bears comparison? The decrease in life expectancy due to poverty is very significant, so the economic damage needs to be factored in
29
30/11/2020 18:11:47 3 3
bbc
So you would be prepared to say who lives and dies in any Cost Benefit Analysis comparison. I think not.
103
30/11/2020 18:34:42 1 2
bbc
It IS being factored in.
If it wasn't, we'd have been in TOTAL lockdown from late February through June, then again from early September & we sure as heck wouldn't be seeing things being eased for December/Christmas.
9
30/11/2020 18:05:35 13 11
bbc
If media stopped sucking up the the whingers, looking for hard luck stories, fanning the flames of He didn't so I can get away with not either, that just do not seem to exist in the everyday world, there might be a chance of getting this virus under control & public pressure on the rule avoiders, breakers. Less selfishness about what you want to do, more play it safe for everyone's best interests.
10
30/11/2020 18:05:49 8 8
bbc
Much of the data used is up to 2 weeks old - a week is a long time in politics and a pandemic.

And very little justifying how the tiers are set, and how regions can reduce their allocated tier.

Quite simply:

- less restrictions = more deaths
- less restriction make January lockdown more likely

Should review tiers on a weekly basis starting 9th December - it would look like being responsive!
24
30/11/2020 18:10:11 5 4
bbc
... and if they did that people would still complain about not being able to plan, not knowing whether they are coming or going etc.
53
30/11/2020 18:19:18 0 5
bbc
More Deaths of the already dying you mean
11
30/11/2020 18:05:55 165 48
bbc
I really have got to the stage where I no longer give credence to this slew of so called evidence.Raab secondguesses Johnson' Gove both...There is a power struggle now in Cabinet and the Nation can go hang...
146
30/11/2020 18:50:00 36 71
bbc
Your evidence?? or it must be r***ish
12
30/11/2020 18:06:05 89 45
bbc
The data is made up and manipulated. Use your common sense. Ignore this disorganised government and do what makes sense. Dont mix with vulnerable people. Keep a safe distance from everyone. Next year will be different.. maybe even a different PM. Stay safe!
190
30/11/2020 19:06:19 39 54
bbc
Could you provide us all with the 'correct' data, verified by suitably qualified people? If you can't then your statement has no validity
01/12/2020 09:11:50 0 1
bbc
How do you know it is made up?
13
30/11/2020 18:06:02 122 21
bbc
Looks like it is weak(sic) old piffle & balderdash - which doesn't address why Luton is in Tier 2 with worse matrices than North Tyneside who are in Tier 3.
34
30/11/2020 18:13:47 94 20
bbc
Same for London. One burrough recording 360 per 100,000. Political decision.
132
30/11/2020 18:44:57 11 14
bbc
Perhaps you would like the tiers by streets?? Now that would really confuse and allow everyone to break the rules. There will always be anomalies congratulations on having the time to find them. It does not help.
170
30/11/2020 18:57:23 11 2
bbc
What you have to remember is that North Tyneside along with Durham is lumped together with the other 5 councils, who joined together to ask the government for restrictions. So unfortunately it will only take one or two of these areas to have high rates, then the others are affected
312
30/11/2020 20:54:58 3 1
bbc
Fair point, but you could have picked examples like Warrington, Carlisle, Carven and Selby.

At the other end, Cambridge, Dorset, Brighton, West Oxfordshire and Camden all seem a bit hard done by, with scores lower than the Isle of Wight, but being put in tier 2. Though you can understand the Isle of Wight being made a special example, Dorset seems very hard done by.
694
30/11/2020 22:40:04 1 1
bbc
Do the people who have voted you down believe the publication actually has the data Handcock claimed it would? If so they are very gullible and should make the effort to actually read it and stop deluding themselves!
5
30/11/2020 18:00:48 14 14
bbc
The lock down has always been based on protecting NHS , which is the bottom line. Any other basis, like protecting the hospitality industry or Cost Benefit Analysis, bears no comparison.
14
IJB
30/11/2020 18:07:21 6 4
bbc
Well said, it's about time the clowns flouting the rules were named and shamed, fined, locked up and strung up, keeping a few pubs, coffee shops and nail bars open is ridiculous
15
30/11/2020 18:07:33 39 19
bbc
Time for these decisions makers to put in the stocks.....
95
30/11/2020 18:30:06 47 52
bbc
I'm sure you're a global expert & would make it all work in 5 seconds flat...

...or perhaps you're just political point scoring like most of the left.

Looking at the rest of Europe, the UK is doing pretty damn' well at handling this crisis.
977
01/12/2020 01:26:26 0 0
bbc
Nope, Universal Credit makes men out of women, put them on that
7
30/11/2020 18:02:39 184 56
bbc
Lots of hospitality venues with no food offering will be obliterated unless further support is forthcoming. Tory break up of a key part of our social fabric, particularly, yes you guessed it, in the North of England. The necessary support would be a drop in the ocean compared to what is being spent on testing and track & trace.
16
30/11/2020 18:08:07 59 73
bbc
Real question is how easily and quickly can the pubs and restaurants be restarted (possibly under new ownership).

I assume the demand will be there on the vaccine gets rolled out.
72
Dee
30/11/2020 18:23:51 34 6
bbc
And the people who spent decades and tens of thousands turning those venues into businesses? Just told to join the dole queue and lose their house?
77
W 6
30/11/2020 18:25:12 32 2
bbc
Sorry but you cannot just turn them off and on again. People need capital to invest to get the businesses off the ground again - where's that going to come from if they've been shut for the best part of a year?
175
30/11/2020 18:59:17 8 12
bbc
You clearly have not read what Prof Mike Yeadon has said about the vaccine. Go ahead and be lab Rat.
383
30/11/2020 21:19:39 3 3
bbc
The Demand is there now. It's the government that stands in the way.
544
30/11/2020 21:50:14 1 1
bbc
Yeah dont worry about the current owners etc, they're all expendable.
730
30/11/2020 22:49:29 0 0
bbc
Great idea. Destroy someone's livelihood and let someone else take advantage of the tragedy.
856
30/11/2020 23:37:42 0 0
bbc
Why would you bother. I've run pubs. There's no money in it. Hasn't been for 30 years. Restaurants may come back but frankly who cares.
01/12/2020 10:28:50 0 0
bbc
demand will be, but supply will not.
How long will brexit take to be functional?
50 years,?
And with the redundancies declared at the current rates, a substantial meal will need to be a packet of.crisps.
17
30/11/2020 18:08:24 19 14
bbc
At the end of the day, they are basing all their decisions on incorrect data. We know that the testing is completely incorrect, in fact pillar 2 testing has a false positive rate of about 90%, and marking deaths as C-19 when someone has had a positive test within 28 days is farcical.
32
30/11/2020 18:13:08 10 6
bbc
Partly agree, several EU countries use both less days and specifically clarify if patient death was brought about by covid impact, if they had covid but not intensive care and died of Heart failure then it’s not listed as covid. UK numbers are probably 5-10,000 less.
89
30/11/2020 18:28:09 6 3
bbc
Go on then; where is this magical "correct data" hiding & why wouldn't the government use it, IF it existed (which it doesn't).
We know nothing of the sort & P2 testing does NOT have "a false positive rate of about 90%".
Do you deniers get some kind of kick from fabricating nonsense?
7
30/11/2020 18:02:39 184 56
bbc
Lots of hospitality venues with no food offering will be obliterated unless further support is forthcoming. Tory break up of a key part of our social fabric, particularly, yes you guessed it, in the North of England. The necessary support would be a drop in the ocean compared to what is being spent on testing and track & trace.
18
30/11/2020 18:08:35 16 46
bbc
So rich are the north it seems they only live on eating out and drinking in pubs at exorbitant costs. If we are to believe your northern whining. Strange as I thought the London set were the eating out partying rich hedonists! Still any excuse made up for free money from other people's tax pockets into the future I guess goes.
264
30/11/2020 19:58:48 6 3
bbc
Funny I thought us whining northerners stood up to Bojo. With southern Tory MPs backing him now the Tier system affects them the whining is on the other foot.
282
30/11/2020 20:14:23 4 1
bbc
yeh but northern eating comes in at £30 for the family all in. not per drink
517
30/11/2020 21:45:48 3 0
bbc
Please remove the St from your name
The North does allow visitors under normal conditions, the kind that spend money
Hospitality is more than pubs and clubs
Hotels, cinemas, playgroups, small businesses all stay closed
We don’t want an increase in deaths, but while the South reopens on an increasing infection rate during a lockdown while ours will hopefully open in 2weeks I’d be careful with words
523
30/11/2020 21:46:49 0 0
bbc
See you on Tuesday mate
19
30/11/2020 18:08:38 154 62
bbc
Don't trust a single word this PM says, so far what has transpired is the opposite of what he promises.
31
30/11/2020 18:12:10 43 77
bbc
He's only the PM working with what others tell him will happen.
35
IJB
30/11/2020 18:13:52 6 23
bbc
He's a fine upstanding citizen, who requires praise not knocking
144
30/11/2020 18:49:13 18 7
bbc
well the virus does not listen to him or you for that matter. Nor did/do hordes of people who still congregate, have parties, will not wear masks, will not refuse to serve people without masks and they have and will bring further misery to all of us.
01/12/2020 09:09:02 0 0
bbc
Rubbish, everything He has said has been supported by the scientists. So far nobody has suggested viable alternative.
01/12/2020 13:20:10 0 0
bbc
Everything he has promised has been accurate,what evidence have you to the contrary?
20
30/11/2020 18:09:11 47 16
bbc
Not much problem with the tiers themselves - just the allocation in specific areas. Worthing has lowest rate in England but T2! Hampshire in T2 because people commute to Portsmouth & Southampton even though NE Hants is 50 miles away. Isle of Wight is T1 despite the fact that many commute to Portsmouth & Southampton. So the allocation is indefensible.
54
30/11/2020 18:19:35 43 11
bbc
False point...you can’t start having likes of Worthing in tier 1 but Brighton in tier 2 people will be even more confused, next step is then street by street...
76
30/11/2020 18:25:02 6 3
bbc
Worthing is an island in the midst of higher numbers, so the allocation IS reasonable under the circumstances.
So in Buxton in the High Peak we had 3 cases last week and were in T3 with 27000 people. FFS this is stupidity on a grand scale. They have lost all my compliance by the injustice and stupidity. Only idiots and Lemmings follow the insane. Removed
536
30/11/2020 21:49:15 0 1
bbc
Hancock claimed that Warwickshire was in T3 because people from Solihull travel to Stratford on Avon for work and shopping. What planet is he on? Very few people from Solihull work or shop in Stratford. Solihull has a much bigger shopping centre and most Silhillians work in Solihull or Birmingham. I’ve visited Stratford twice in 2 years. Both times to visit the theatre which is now closed.
989
01/12/2020 04:29:54 0 0
bbc
Cornwall is in Tier 1, but then Cornwall, has always lived in the past, somewhere between the 50's and 70's, so they will never see it. So we should all have headed off to Cornwall , before the tier system came into effect. Most of the UK would then be in Tier 1, except Cornwall, then everyone there could be tested and those not infected could return to their home county. JOB DONE, virus contained
21
KL
30/11/2020 18:09:33 72 5
bbc
Richard Burgon's position is actually that the current nationwide lockdown should continue until Christmas. Given that has no support in Parliament a vote against the tier system is a vote for no restrictions whatsoever which is the opposite of what he wants. I think too many politicians have lost the art of pragmatism.
286
30/11/2020 20:18:45 27 2
bbc
Agree with that last point.
492
30/11/2020 21:40:50 0 2
bbc
the tories are shorten shortening the post christmas lives in case they lose the vote...they cant make there minds save the nhs, or safe face in a vote...shambolic
01/12/2020 10:50:26 0 0
bbc
we will find out later today how much support there is in Parliament.
See how clear your crystal ball is then.
After the chaos of the last 5 years, I will predict the results after they are out.
22
NGB
30/11/2020 18:09:46 296 114
bbc
What disturbs me most is that the NHS costs billions of pounds and employs hundreds of thousands of staff, yet we are all being subject to house arrest as it can't cope with more than 0.01% of the population being seriously ill at once. It needs a serious shake up.
48
30/11/2020 18:17:42 148 92
bbc
If it can’t cope it ain’t fit for purpose
59
30/11/2020 18:20:25 72 30
bbc
I have to agree on your last point - the NHS has had money chucked at it for decades but is still incredibly wasteful and badly managed - throughout and down to ward level where,...no ones in charge.
62
30/11/2020 18:20:39 65 56
bbc
"House arrest"?
Arrant nonsense, as nobody is prevented from leaving their home & only those tested positive must isolate & even that for a limited time.
Give yourself a shake, as you're being hysterical.
129
30/11/2020 18:44:35 82 58
bbc
The facts:

The NHS has been underfunded massively by the Tories since 2010. In GDP terms NHS spending has fallen from 7.6% to 7.1% (Nuffield Trust figures). That's a massive cut.

On top of that huge costs have been piled onto the NHS because the Tories slashed Social Care funding. In response the NHS has made cuts to services of over £80B to-date.

A Tory NHS always ends up in crisis!
141
30/11/2020 18:48:29 66 32
bbc
The Tories have been told for years that even a bad flu outbreak would cause a crisis in the NHS.

Seems you Tory Bots have forgotten all about the Tory binned "Exercise Cygnus" report.

"Exercise Cygnus uncovered: the pandemic warnings buried by the government"

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/28/exercise-cygnus-uncovered-pandemic-warnings-buried-government/

Used the Torygraph link!
201
30/11/2020 19:14:49 30 13
bbc
The job of the NHS is to keep the working population working, so the revenue they create can taxed and distributed. Not to fit around the ideas of a utopian state. They are the equivalent of a racing stable vet. To protect revenue.
287
30/11/2020 20:22:38 14 6
bbc
There is barely anyone in the Nightingales partly because there are not enough staff to run them without taking from existing hospitals. So we are protecting the NHS in case in gets so busy they have to use the Nightingales. So why build them if there are not enough staff? Surely we should have imported some staff from abroad/paid loads to get people back and allowed them to fill up?
371
30/11/2020 21:17:37 7 11
bbc
If we have to crash our economy and kill thousands of health people to save a few then the NHS needs to be overhauled but the tail should not wag the dog.
I am done with saving the NHS over this travesty this government must go.
398
30/11/2020 21:21:49 5 5
bbc
The NHS is the 3rd largest employer in the world, it employs over 1,700, 000 staff.
426
30/11/2020 21:27:17 10 7
bbc
0.01% = almost 68,000 people. So quite a challenge during the winter. Try doing the sums first.
452
Bob
30/11/2020 21:33:17 6 3
bbc
So if you're unhappy that it can't cope with 0.01% of the population laying in a hospital bed, what percentage would make you happy?

Even if you were happy at just 1% you're going to need to pay 2-3x more tax to fund that.
461
30/11/2020 21:35:17 6 8
bbc
Couldn’t agree more. Money wasted keeping very old people “alive” regardless of quality of life. Just because we can, it doesn’t mean we should. Now we create a generation of debt and impoverishment for our children just to keep those same people alive. Utter madness.
462
30/11/2020 21:35:17 9 4
bbc
The NHS is probably the most inefficient organisation on the planet. It takes my GP surgery 5 days to write a few lines letter, which has been dictated in advance. The front line are great, the admin, back office and bureaucracy are terrible. The front line staff I know share my view. Sadly no one seems able to make patients the priority. A self-serving institution.
465
30/11/2020 21:35:56 9 3
bbc
Lets for a minute imagine increasing the NHS budget by the 20% that track and trace/testing is costing and spend that every year for the next 20 years curing cancer. The result? We spend the same as this debacle will cost us but we save otherwise healthy people dying rather than the old and seriously ill. Which way would it be? I know the muppets in the Cabinet have never thought of this!!
466
30/11/2020 21:36:17 5 2
bbc
How much of the billions the NHS costs is on actual care, If you scratch under the surface , you will find s fair proportion of it ends up in the hands of a few select consultants and private sector companies with links to Government under the guise of NHS spending.
499
30/11/2020 21:41:26 5 1
bbc
The government like us to think the NHS is coping with the pandemic, but it's never coped with it. If it could treat the regular patients AND the Covid patients, that would be coping.
538
30/11/2020 21:49:22 5 0
bbc
Hancock, no not the Will Smith character although he could have done alot better job should have been fired a long time ago, he is dreadful, who in the private sector owning the track and trace app with the amount of money spent and its failure to deliver would still be in a job.
543
30/11/2020 21:50:11 4 3
bbc
Probably look no further than the last 10 years of funding. It costs a lot to have the most up to date tech & a motivated, well paid staff to keep the country healthy... it’s worth the investment
547
30/11/2020 21:51:02 0 2
bbc
??????????????
551
30/11/2020 21:52:10 1 3
bbc
Sshhh, to criticise the NHS is treason I think!
608
30/11/2020 22:05:15 2 2
bbc
The NHS is not infinite and has to deal with a great number of patients who refuse to look after themselves. The risk of NHS collapse should be enough for people to take responsibility for themselves
620
30/11/2020 22:07:17 6 2
bbc
It needs 10 years of investment that was cut by the tories just to catch up and the removal of expensive privatisation.
630
30/11/2020 22:11:34 1 2
bbc
I agree. People are scared of critisizing the NHS, but why are our deaths Vs CV19 positive test so high? The data suggest we have the worst record for successfully treating CV19 in the world.

Check worldometers for amount of tests Vs Positive test Vs deaths. eg, France many more CV cases, many less deaths??? We also carried out far more tests.
644
30/11/2020 22:18:38 3 1
bbc
The alternative is private health insurance, who wants that?
653
30/11/2020 22:23:20 4 3
bbc
Years of Tory underfunding
682
30/11/2020 22:36:07 0 1
bbc
Steady on, people aren't fond of the truth.
717
30/11/2020 22:46:41 3 0
bbc
Yet less is spent on it by a long way compared to countries like Germany.
759
30/11/2020 22:55:30 1 1
bbc
0.01% needing critical care. That is a lot.
826
30/11/2020 23:24:21 4 0
bbc
Best vote for Labour then. If you keep voting Tory you'll just get more of the same.
966
01/12/2020 00:43:20 2 0
bbc
America's health service is so much better - basically a death sentence for anyone who isn't rich.
23
30/11/2020 18:10:05 5 8
bbc
Anyone else feel like the delay was to allow time for a little tweaking?
79
30/11/2020 18:25:40 0 3
bbc
yep
10
30/11/2020 18:05:49 8 8
bbc
Much of the data used is up to 2 weeks old - a week is a long time in politics and a pandemic.

And very little justifying how the tiers are set, and how regions can reduce their allocated tier.

Quite simply:

- less restrictions = more deaths
- less restriction make January lockdown more likely

Should review tiers on a weekly basis starting 9th December - it would look like being responsive!
24
30/11/2020 18:10:11 5 4
bbc
... and if they did that people would still complain about not being able to plan, not knowing whether they are coming or going etc.
25
30/11/2020 18:10:19 25 16
bbc
If all the half wits had played the game from June, highly likely we wouldn't be in this position. But no do as we like attitude from people all over the UK means we are really no further forward. Looking forward to another month's lockdown from the middle of Jan, as the same people won't be able to control themselves over Xmas & New Year.
26
30/11/2020 18:10:23 14 13
bbc
I think they take numbers out of a bingo tumbler and then look them up on a chart to find out what the results are. They're taking the Michael - London not in Tier 3 or 4 despite being the most populace city in the UK. You can have a meal in a pub but the same amount of people in a pub can't drink beer? This is pure sociology for sociology's sake. Pure victimisation
27
30/11/2020 18:10:36 9 13
bbc
No doubt Johnson, his cabinet & scientific advisors will manage to massage the data figures to show that the “Tiers” solution is emphatically needed, out weighing any possible social/economic benefits. They’ve managed to use “Dodgy flawed” data in the past to bring about this lockdown. It’s about time the people had a direct say in these measures, instead of the draconian ones imposed by Johnson.
28
30/11/2020 18:11:40 4 10
bbc
SNP will abstain, well actually they can't vote anyway, utter rubbish coming out of BBC again.
37
30/11/2020 18:14:33 5 1
bbc
The SNP MPs in Westminster can indeed vote on this, or any other matter brought to a vote in the HoC.
44
30/11/2020 18:17:03 1 1
bbc
Wrong.
8
30/11/2020 18:05:22 14 4
bbc
Surely the point of the cost-benefit analysis is to work out whether it bears comparison? The decrease in life expectancy due to poverty is very significant, so the economic damage needs to be factored in
29
30/11/2020 18:11:47 3 3
bbc
So you would be prepared to say who lives and dies in any Cost Benefit Analysis comparison. I think not.
60
30/11/2020 18:20:29 0 4
bbc
Yep
30
30/11/2020 18:12:08 5 4
bbc
Don't expect any review of tiers until after Christmas at earliest. Governent will say the data isn't available, evem if it is.
19
30/11/2020 18:08:38 154 62
bbc
Don't trust a single word this PM says, so far what has transpired is the opposite of what he promises.
31
30/11/2020 18:12:10 43 77
bbc
He's only the PM working with what others tell him will happen.
379
30/11/2020 21:19:00 8 2
bbc
Just following orders... where have we heard this before. Nuremberg
451
30/11/2020 21:32:53 3 2
bbc
this is what we call an apologist.
664
30/11/2020 22:28:20 1 1
bbc
Johnson listening don't think so
01/12/2020 09:52:28 0 0
bbc
And no brains of his own to interpret what they are telling him!!
01/12/2020 10:44:17 0 0
bbc
we realise he has to be told what should happen; it took Carrie to get rid of Cain annd Cummings.
17
30/11/2020 18:08:24 19 14
bbc
At the end of the day, they are basing all their decisions on incorrect data. We know that the testing is completely incorrect, in fact pillar 2 testing has a false positive rate of about 90%, and marking deaths as C-19 when someone has had a positive test within 28 days is farcical.
32
30/11/2020 18:13:08 10 6
bbc
Partly agree, several EU countries use both less days and specifically clarify if patient death was brought about by covid impact, if they had covid but not intensive care and died of Heart failure then it’s not listed as covid. UK numbers are probably 5-10,000 less.
5
30/11/2020 18:00:48 14 14
bbc
The lock down has always been based on protecting NHS , which is the bottom line. Any other basis, like protecting the hospitality industry or Cost Benefit Analysis, bears no comparison.
33
30/11/2020 18:13:10 0 6
bbc
But the tier allocation doesn’t support this. South East England is mostly T2 with Kent in T3. Ventilator patients around 30% of April peak, weekly deaths 2.1% above 5yr average. What are we protecting the NHS from? Looks to me like a draconian measure with little justification
55
30/11/2020 18:19:36 4 2
bbc
That's now. They're not protecting now, they're protecting January, February and March. You don't want to wait until the hospitals are swamped because that's way too late.

Some clever people (Keir Starmer etc) have already whinged that Lockdown 1 was too late, so maybe blame them for where we are now?
65
30/11/2020 18:22:11 3 1
bbc
Need to protect the NHS from annual winter crisis (flu, other bugs, falls)in NHS hospitals which happens without COVID. Planning ahead is crucial during the winter period to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed.
13
30/11/2020 18:06:02 122 21
bbc
Looks like it is weak(sic) old piffle & balderdash - which doesn't address why Luton is in Tier 2 with worse matrices than North Tyneside who are in Tier 3.
34
30/11/2020 18:13:47 94 20
bbc
Same for London. One burrough recording 360 per 100,000. Political decision.
213
30/11/2020 19:24:23 8 7
bbc
Perhaps those who voted Tory thinking they give a damn for northern England want to reconsider?
306
30/11/2020 20:51:22 7 2
bbc
But several boroughs scoring under 100 per 100,000.
574
30/11/2020 21:57:05 2 0
bbc
It's not just the number of cases. In the list in Friday's paper of all districts within the 72 overall areas my district in Devon is the lowest in the country. The highest figure in Devon was 131.7 but we are in tier 2. We do have a generally older population and the normal winter hospital cases are increasing. Nightingale expected to be in use. London has a higher number of beds per head.
19
30/11/2020 18:08:38 154 62
bbc
Don't trust a single word this PM says, so far what has transpired is the opposite of what he promises.
35
IJB
30/11/2020 18:13:52 6 23
bbc
He's a fine upstanding citizen, who requires praise not knocking
258
30/11/2020 19:53:31 15 6
bbc
He is a liar and a cheat. In any other decade he would not have got anywhere near the cabinet, let alone PM, and if he did he would have been sacked 4 times already!
281
as
30/11/2020 20:13:37 5 1
bbc
Ironic!
359
30/11/2020 21:13:28 6 1
bbc
god.....why did I scroll down
676
30/11/2020 22:33:29 3 0
bbc
what ever your on it's making you delusional
01/12/2020 15:14:49 0 0
bbc
Who, Johnson?
Boris, not Samuel?
36
30/11/2020 18:14:15 35 12
bbc
The UK seems to have acquired quite a well practised knack at making even the simplest of solutions as complicated & confusing as possible.

This was one major problem with ex EU legislation, ie, half a dozen A4 pages were often ‘gold plated’ & resembling ‘War & Peace’ once the Civil Service had meddled with it & this gave faux impression that ‘we’ in UK were sinking under the weight of ‘EU Laws’.
272
30/11/2020 20:03:09 31 9
bbc
100% The good old straight banana analogy. It appears now the whole success/failure of the UK/EU deal/no deal is reliant on a fishing deal which represents about 0.2% of our GDP. You really could not make it up!
28
30/11/2020 18:11:40 4 10
bbc
SNP will abstain, well actually they can't vote anyway, utter rubbish coming out of BBC again.
37
30/11/2020 18:14:33 5 1
bbc
The SNP MPs in Westminster can indeed vote on this, or any other matter brought to a vote in the HoC.
38
30/11/2020 18:15:25 8 7
bbc
The govt is in a lose - lose war at the moment. If they have no restrictions cases and deaths will shoot up - as in the USA. That's bad politically.

If they do what the scientists want - total lockdown until everyone is vaccinated - the economy dies. That's bad too.

They have to strike a balance somewhere in the middle. There is no perfect solution. It'll be over in a few months so suck it up.
42
30/11/2020 18:16:32 3 5
bbc
Bad politically because a majority of old people vote Tory?
64
30/11/2020 18:21:54 0 2
bbc
Studies have shown that lockdown kills people. Many scientists believe that they will result in more coronavirus deaths long-term as well as the 'collateral damage'. Many are not prepared to 'suck that up', just to protect the reputations of the SAGE members who are pushing this.
84
30/11/2020 18:27:06 1 1
bbc
A lot of us don’t mind restrictions, just object to be put in tier 3 when we have lower cases than places like East London.
115
30/11/2020 18:37:22 0 2
bbc
over in a couple of months ..now when did I hear that from Johnson...
39
30/11/2020 18:16:02 59 8
bbc
Why is the analysis written by a political correspondent? Surely science and health should be taking the lead on this, not just in the press but in government.
346
30/11/2020 21:09:40 28 6
bbc
When did science and health pay the bills? Government needs to balance the needs of the health service and the economy. You can’t have one without the other.
403
30/11/2020 21:23:04 0 0
bbc
Spin SPIN SPIN
988
01/12/2020 04:17:45 0 0
bbc
Sadly we vote for the government to lead the country, not scientists, medical experts and others who tell the government, what action they they think should be taken. and who are those experts, passing on the science to the government. I would rather hear the science from those experts, that the government say they are taking their lead from, than hear what they say, IS based on THE SCIENCE.
40
30/11/2020 18:16:16 4 5
bbc
“Don’t Trust Johnson”
A nice little three word slogan that he can plaster on the front of his lectern.
He likes the simple ones, they seem to suit him really “Simple is as simple does”.
41
30/11/2020 18:16:20 62 18
bbc
It is another dodgy dossier.
153
30/11/2020 18:51:46 17 26
bbc
have you researched another one??
687
30/11/2020 22:37:34 0 0
bbc
Bang on!
01/12/2020 09:11:10 0 0
bbc
Have you read it? No. Please don't make such foolish statements without evidence.
38
30/11/2020 18:15:25 8 7
bbc
The govt is in a lose - lose war at the moment. If they have no restrictions cases and deaths will shoot up - as in the USA. That's bad politically.

If they do what the scientists want - total lockdown until everyone is vaccinated - the economy dies. That's bad too.

They have to strike a balance somewhere in the middle. There is no perfect solution. It'll be over in a few months so suck it up.
42
30/11/2020 18:16:32 3 5
bbc
Bad politically because a majority of old people vote Tory?
58
30/11/2020 18:19:53 1 1
bbc
Older people vote conservative because they have past experience of t'other lot !
Can you imagine the shambles if Corbyn had his hands on this.
43
30/11/2020 18:13:24 3 5
bbc
Liars
28
30/11/2020 18:11:40 4 10
bbc
SNP will abstain, well actually they can't vote anyway, utter rubbish coming out of BBC again.
44
30/11/2020 18:17:03 1 1
bbc
Wrong.
45
30/11/2020 18:17:04 13 11
bbc
If you were unsure about being taken for a ride now you can have no doubt. No cost benefit analysis is available, pull the other one. The govt have the tiger by the tale and to let it go would be admitting the total waste of 250 billion pounds (although they and friends have trousered plenty) and the fact that they have ruined millions of young lives. Average age of Covid death still over 82.
145
30/11/2020 18:49:21 4 3
bbc
Are you saying we should sacrifice our elders, people with relevant health conditions etc, or perhaps lock them in a concentration camp?
46
30/11/2020 18:17:26 177 30
bbc
Is 'nuanced' the latest way of saying "London pub jobs are more important than Manchester pub jobs, so we will leave London in Tier 2" ?
78
30/11/2020 18:25:15 97 14
bbc
Absolutely, London, particularly East London has much higher causes and is put in tier 2
148
30/11/2020 18:50:54 1 1
bbc
Well it was so clouded in fog that I did not get your nuance...where did you find it??
182
30/11/2020 19:02:37 8 2
bbc
Manchester rate 206; London rate 155
300
30/11/2020 20:48:39 7 2
bbc
Have you looked at the data rather than just commenting? The scoring system shows that, barring a couple of London boroughs, all have a far better score than Manchester (Camden's is better than the Isle of Wight so can feel hard done by not to be in tier 1), and that the "protected" are places like Cheshire, Carlisle, Ipswich and Warrington.
326
Cam
30/11/2020 20:59:46 7 3
bbc
Spot on. My area (T3) is lower than a half of those in T2 & is not bordering any overly high area. Indeed, our main border is a district down to 88 cases/100k & is (ludicrously) still T3.
There's scant intelligence behind the allocation of tiers, as simple condemning a whole county due to one bad district (in visa vera in some areas of the south east) is a retrograde step.
354
30/11/2020 21:12:15 2 2
bbc
when "whatever it is" reaches the end of heathrow's runway...it becomes important
706
30/11/2020 22:42:45 0 2
bbc
It would appear so, the whole pandemic has highlighted once and for all the preferential treatment given to London,
871
30/11/2020 23:43:32 0 0
bbc
It's sort of irrelevant. Real pubs will not survive in tier 2 anyway.
01/12/2020 08:11:04 0 0
bbc
Pubs open in tier 2 will be a nonsense for the trade . Will continue to lose money and will find it better to remain closed and keep staff on furlough.
01/12/2020 09:14:30 0 0
bbc
Michael Gove used lots of nuanced language on R4 this morning, but basically said that "London pub jobs are more important than Manchester pub jobs, so we will leave London in Tier 2".
01/12/2020 09:47:04 0 0
bbc
We all know that London is the centre of the universe and will get off light
47
30/11/2020 18:17:29 11 13
bbc
FULL lockdown. Nothing less will suffice. Nothing less will stop the spread.

Get rid of these 'tiers' and other silly get-out clauses and categories.

It's time for the government to act like a government.
80
Ian
30/11/2020 18:26:12 4 3
bbc
Coupled with a meaningful punishment for politicians and celebrities who break the rules.

£10k fine for Rita Ora was probably budgeted for when the "spur of the moment" party was planned. Fine every attendee and shut the restaurant for 3 months to make examples of them.
90
IJB
30/11/2020 18:28:45 1 1
bbc
Totally agree
Idiot! Removed
162
30/11/2020 18:53:08 0 1
bbc
I wonder if you would be saying this if you had invested thousands of pounds of your own money into a business less than 12mths ago and found yourself unable to qualify for any support and had a family to support ? Or have you been furloughed and enjoying being paid to sit on your backside all day. Cretinous posts like this make me sick, you don't value your freedom !
22
NGB
30/11/2020 18:09:46 296 114
bbc
What disturbs me most is that the NHS costs billions of pounds and employs hundreds of thousands of staff, yet we are all being subject to house arrest as it can't cope with more than 0.01% of the population being seriously ill at once. It needs a serious shake up.
48
30/11/2020 18:17:42 148 92
bbc
If it can’t cope it ain’t fit for purpose
255
Ish
30/11/2020 19:52:20 43 14
bbc
So what would you suggest replacing the N.H.S. with? Please enlighten me.
280
30/11/2020 20:13:01 18 13
bbc
That's Tories for you. Underfunded to sell off. Clap that.
719
30/11/2020 22:46:56 1 5
bbc
The NHS is a 1947 model with bit bolted on over the years. It has become inefficient, bureaucratic, management heavy, wasteful and open to abuse of use.

It needs a complete restructuring and overhaul.

Many procedures are much more complex, expensive and numerous compared to what the NHS did at its birth. Maybe we need to pay nominal amounts to see doctors like we do dentists for a start.
734
30/11/2020 22:50:26 2 2
bbc
Rubbish, it can cope with the normal load. Last year it admitted around 50 thousand people a day (weekdays) and 20 to 25 thousand at weekends.

But do you think it could cope if it had double those numbers per day over a sustained period of months, especially if a lot of them needed intensive care.
740
30/11/2020 22:51:23 1 3
bbc
Cant cope with what? A random and global pandemic?
In your eyes we just buy a load more ventilators (the reason for surgeries being cut) and build 1000s of wards (the reason for lockdown).
In the real world this is a waste of money when it wont be needed unless of the latter...

Use your loaf!
49
bbc
To be blunt, they are decimating the economy to give old dying people a month or two extra. Median average age of dying with Covid is 82 according to the Office of National Statistics. Death is due to comorbidity. This virus is not that devastating, it is the media sensationalising it and the government doing their typical knee jerk reaction. The NHS has not been overwhelmed TikTok showed that Removed
69
30/11/2020 18:22:51 1 1
bbc
I am no millennial snowflake, but this comment is bordering on obscene. God forgive you.
50
30/11/2020 18:17:46 5 5
bbc
ED Davey and the Liberal washouts - what a shower of populists.
I bet the Government are out of their minds with worry that whole Lib Dums will vote against them ....that would be how many again?
51
30/11/2020 18:18:11 12 10
bbc
Critics demand to see the data used to decide tiers.

Critics cry "it's all made up & we don't believe you".

Critics look very silly indeed.

I consider the government's actions to be balanced, reasonable & if anything, somewhat overly lenient.

As for demanding a "people's say" on the matter: Grow up, as a significant number have demonstrated their selfishness & ignorance already.
71
30/11/2020 18:23:16 4 3
bbc
... and sensible people say "the Tiers do not seem to be being applied objectively or equitably based on the case data, we would like to see your reasoning behind them please"
73
30/11/2020 18:23:53 4 1
bbc
Have you looked at the data? The data was out of date when they put parts of the country were put into tier 3, and quite frankly the decision looks even more silly now. What I object to is being put into tier 3, which means in theory I shouldn’t leave the area when the COVID cases in my area are well below average and less than places like London. Causing irreparable damage
97
30/11/2020 18:29:11 1 1
bbc
Have you actually read the government paper? It doesn't contain this data at a UTLA level, only by English region. I.e., it does not split out the metrics for each bucket that has been placed in a tier together
52
30/11/2020 18:18:27 2 9
bbc
We will never save the UK with this gov in charge. They are the opposite of king midal. Whatever they touch turns in shite. We are the worst hit economically in the G7 behind Italy. And brexit hasn't kicked in yet. Good luck everyone
70
30/11/2020 18:23:00 0 4
bbc
Factually incorrect..
10
30/11/2020 18:05:49 8 8
bbc
Much of the data used is up to 2 weeks old - a week is a long time in politics and a pandemic.

And very little justifying how the tiers are set, and how regions can reduce their allocated tier.

Quite simply:

- less restrictions = more deaths
- less restriction make January lockdown more likely

Should review tiers on a weekly basis starting 9th December - it would look like being responsive!
53
30/11/2020 18:19:18 0 5
bbc
More Deaths of the already dying you mean
20
30/11/2020 18:09:11 47 16
bbc
Not much problem with the tiers themselves - just the allocation in specific areas. Worthing has lowest rate in England but T2! Hampshire in T2 because people commute to Portsmouth & Southampton even though NE Hants is 50 miles away. Isle of Wight is T1 despite the fact that many commute to Portsmouth & Southampton. So the allocation is indefensible.
54
30/11/2020 18:19:35 43 11
bbc
False point...you can’t start having likes of Worthing in tier 1 but Brighton in tier 2 people will be even more confused, next step is then street by street...
397
lai
30/11/2020 21:21:47 1 1
bbc
You might have just accidentally given away the plan for lockdown number 3 there.
01/12/2020 14:40:09 0 0
bbc
You could certainly have borough /district areas within a County . Northamptonshire for example is tier 2 with County towns dominating population and covid cases . Rural districts such as Daventry have smaller % of population and significantly fewer cases per 100,000. Politicians to lazy / cannot be bothered to sort . People will do it for them by keeping heads down and doing own thing .
33
30/11/2020 18:13:10 0 6
bbc
But the tier allocation doesn’t support this. South East England is mostly T2 with Kent in T3. Ventilator patients around 30% of April peak, weekly deaths 2.1% above 5yr average. What are we protecting the NHS from? Looks to me like a draconian measure with little justification
55
30/11/2020 18:19:36 4 2
bbc
That's now. They're not protecting now, they're protecting January, February and March. You don't want to wait until the hospitals are swamped because that's way too late.

Some clever people (Keir Starmer etc) have already whinged that Lockdown 1 was too late, so maybe blame them for where we are now?
56
30/11/2020 18:19:46 8 10
bbc
They have been trying since March 23rd to keep it under control, but the irony is, it kept itself under control. After March, April & May it has followed the path of previous years and nothing we did or done would have changed that. They are deluded if they think they can influence an airborne virus. Now the pandemic is over can we kindly get back on with our lives.
96
30/11/2020 18:30:26 5 4
bbc
I feel that this pandemic is a long way off being over.

“This is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.”
57
30/11/2020 18:19:52 5 8
bbc
If this and other governments hadn't consistently reduced the investment in the NHS, cut the recruitment and training of Doctors and Nurses in this country. Closed local hospitals and the list goes ever on, they could have coped, in addition the mass exodus of medical staff who were made to feel unwelcome post Brexit vote.
42
30/11/2020 18:16:32 3 5
bbc
Bad politically because a majority of old people vote Tory?
58
30/11/2020 18:19:53 1 1
bbc
Older people vote conservative because they have past experience of t'other lot !
Can you imagine the shambles if Corbyn had his hands on this.
22
NGB
30/11/2020 18:09:46 296 114
bbc
What disturbs me most is that the NHS costs billions of pounds and employs hundreds of thousands of staff, yet we are all being subject to house arrest as it can't cope with more than 0.01% of the population being seriously ill at once. It needs a serious shake up.
59
30/11/2020 18:20:25 72 30
bbc
I have to agree on your last point - the NHS has had money chucked at it for decades but is still incredibly wasteful and badly managed - throughout and down to ward level where,...no ones in charge.
269
30/11/2020 20:02:11 6 13
bbc
well said
274
as
30/11/2020 20:06:49 36 9
bbc
For decades much of the new money "chucked at it" has come from so called efficiency savings, some of which they have been allowed to keep, so effectively governments handing it out with one hand and pulling it back (or a bit more) with the other.
Smoke and mirrors!
275
as
30/11/2020 20:08:07 8 2
bbc
You really haven't a clue.
599
30/11/2020 22:03:05 2 1
bbc
There are surprisingly few NHS managers. The NHS would probably benefit from more managers. Unfortunately that wouldn’t be a popular policy from any government.
There’s very little slack in the system, most treatments are done via outpatients, with inpatients kept to a minimum and for short stays. 95% bed occupancy is normal. Dramatic increases in patients are hence difficult to deal with.
602
30/11/2020 22:04:09 3 2
bbc
How pathetic are you and your kind, too stupid to have an informed opinion of your own, just blindly following whatever rag you read tells you to think.
29
30/11/2020 18:11:47 3 3
bbc
So you would be prepared to say who lives and dies in any Cost Benefit Analysis comparison. I think not.
60
30/11/2020 18:20:29 0 4
bbc
Yep
111
30/11/2020 18:35:59 1 3
bbc
Which is exactly why people like you don't deserve a say.
61
30/11/2020 18:20:36 7 10
bbc
We will never save the UK with this gov in charge. They are the opposite of king midal. Whatever they touch turns in ..... ??We are the worst hit economically in the G7 behind Italy. And brexit hasn't kicked in yet. Good luck everyone
22
NGB
30/11/2020 18:09:46 296 114
bbc
What disturbs me most is that the NHS costs billions of pounds and employs hundreds of thousands of staff, yet we are all being subject to house arrest as it can't cope with more than 0.01% of the population being seriously ill at once. It needs a serious shake up.
62
30/11/2020 18:20:39 65 56
bbc
"House arrest"?
Arrant nonsense, as nobody is prevented from leaving their home & only those tested positive must isolate & even that for a limited time.
Give yourself a shake, as you're being hysterical.
261
30/11/2020 19:55:25 26 14
bbc
Sorry, I cannot see any of my friends or family, who gives a stuff that I can go to Tescos!
63
30/11/2020 18:21:50 3 2
bbc
I feel sorry for pubs & restaurants. I went to one of the village pubs in Sept. The landlord had done everything he could, "pods", 2 marquees with lots of distancing, except account for some of the local idiots not doing as they should & getting bang out of order when he told them sort themselves out or leave. They did the latter.
38
30/11/2020 18:15:25 8 7
bbc
The govt is in a lose - lose war at the moment. If they have no restrictions cases and deaths will shoot up - as in the USA. That's bad politically.

If they do what the scientists want - total lockdown until everyone is vaccinated - the economy dies. That's bad too.

They have to strike a balance somewhere in the middle. There is no perfect solution. It'll be over in a few months so suck it up.
64
30/11/2020 18:21:54 0 2
bbc
Studies have shown that lockdown kills people. Many scientists believe that they will result in more coronavirus deaths long-term as well as the 'collateral damage'. Many are not prepared to 'suck that up', just to protect the reputations of the SAGE members who are pushing this.
33
30/11/2020 18:13:10 0 6
bbc
But the tier allocation doesn’t support this. South East England is mostly T2 with Kent in T3. Ventilator patients around 30% of April peak, weekly deaths 2.1% above 5yr average. What are we protecting the NHS from? Looks to me like a draconian measure with little justification
65
30/11/2020 18:22:11 3 1
bbc
Need to protect the NHS from annual winter crisis (flu, other bugs, falls)in NHS hospitals which happens without COVID. Planning ahead is crucial during the winter period to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed.
66
30/11/2020 18:22:32 14 9
bbc
We don't need to see the detailed data. From early July until this recent lockdown started, infection rates were increasing even in the lowest tier areas. That means the previous restrictions were not strong enough to control the virus. The current 4 week lockdown has reset things somewhat, but if we go back to the previous arrangement, rates will increase again. So stronger measures are needed.
134
37p
30/11/2020 18:46:00 0 5
bbc
It's not a great increase from early July to the start of September. The real increase was at the end of September. All on corornavirus.data.gov.uk

Why they increased isn't immediately obvious to me but I'm sure someone will tell me!
67
bri
bbc
Removed
68
30/11/2020 18:20:26 7 4
bbc
This is poor reporting. The first paragraph states that this is the data behind the decisions on the tier system. It is not.

It is the data behind taking a tiered approach and gives zero meaningful insight into the decision to stratify UTLAs in the way they have. Hard data on each UTLA please with clear data driven rationale on tier placement, exit and escalation criteria are what are needed.
613
30/11/2020 22:05:49 0 2
bbc
It's being reported by the BBC, what do you expect?
To be blunt, they are decimating the economy to give old dying people a month or two extra. Median average age of dying with Covid is 82 according to the Office of National Statistics. Death is due to comorbidity. This virus is not that devastating, it is the media sensationalising it and the government doing their typical knee jerk reaction. The NHS has not been overwhelmed TikTok showed that Removed
69
30/11/2020 18:22:51 1 1
bbc
I am no millennial snowflake, but this comment is bordering on obscene. God forgive you.
52
30/11/2020 18:18:27 2 9
bbc
We will never save the UK with this gov in charge. They are the opposite of king midal. Whatever they touch turns in shite. We are the worst hit economically in the G7 behind Italy. And brexit hasn't kicked in yet. Good luck everyone
70
30/11/2020 18:23:00 0 4
bbc
Factually incorrect..
51
30/11/2020 18:18:11 12 10
bbc
Critics demand to see the data used to decide tiers.

Critics cry "it's all made up & we don't believe you".

Critics look very silly indeed.

I consider the government's actions to be balanced, reasonable & if anything, somewhat overly lenient.

As for demanding a "people's say" on the matter: Grow up, as a significant number have demonstrated their selfishness & ignorance already.
71
30/11/2020 18:23:16 4 3
bbc
... and sensible people say "the Tiers do not seem to be being applied objectively or equitably based on the case data, we would like to see your reasoning behind them please"
16
30/11/2020 18:08:07 59 73
bbc
Real question is how easily and quickly can the pubs and restaurants be restarted (possibly under new ownership).

I assume the demand will be there on the vaccine gets rolled out.
72
Dee
30/11/2020 18:23:51 34 6
bbc
And the people who spent decades and tens of thousands turning those venues into businesses? Just told to join the dole queue and lose their house?
171
30/11/2020 18:57:42 12 16
bbc
and what about those who will be dead decades before they should be? That's OK with you then?
51
30/11/2020 18:18:11 12 10
bbc
Critics demand to see the data used to decide tiers.

Critics cry "it's all made up & we don't believe you".

Critics look very silly indeed.

I consider the government's actions to be balanced, reasonable & if anything, somewhat overly lenient.

As for demanding a "people's say" on the matter: Grow up, as a significant number have demonstrated their selfishness & ignorance already.
73
30/11/2020 18:23:53 4 1
bbc
Have you looked at the data? The data was out of date when they put parts of the country were put into tier 3, and quite frankly the decision looks even more silly now. What I object to is being put into tier 3, which means in theory I shouldn’t leave the area when the COVID cases in my area are well below average and less than places like London. Causing irreparable damage
74
30/11/2020 18:24:29 32 16
bbc
If there was any credible analysis to support the latest totalitarian policy, the Government would have published it days ago. Where has the "forensic" Keir Starmer gone, he's more like a nodding donkey these days
894
as
01/12/2020 00:00:28 5 1
bbc
Perhaps he was waiting for evidence to be produced before evaluating and commenting, unlike Boris who is inclined to shooting his mouth off without considering what it is he wants to say, and what effect it might have.
75
30/11/2020 18:24:37 4 5
bbc
Notice that the group calling themselves the CRG will mostly likely vote against it, interesting that several of this group are also part of ERG...sound familiar!
20
30/11/2020 18:09:11 47 16
bbc
Not much problem with the tiers themselves - just the allocation in specific areas. Worthing has lowest rate in England but T2! Hampshire in T2 because people commute to Portsmouth & Southampton even though NE Hants is 50 miles away. Isle of Wight is T1 despite the fact that many commute to Portsmouth & Southampton. So the allocation is indefensible.
76
30/11/2020 18:25:02 6 3
bbc
Worthing is an island in the midst of higher numbers, so the allocation IS reasonable under the circumstances.
16
30/11/2020 18:08:07 59 73
bbc
Real question is how easily and quickly can the pubs and restaurants be restarted (possibly under new ownership).

I assume the demand will be there on the vaccine gets rolled out.
77
W 6
30/11/2020 18:25:12 32 2
bbc
Sorry but you cannot just turn them off and on again. People need capital to invest to get the businesses off the ground again - where's that going to come from if they've been shut for the best part of a year?
46
30/11/2020 18:17:26 177 30
bbc
Is 'nuanced' the latest way of saying "London pub jobs are more important than Manchester pub jobs, so we will leave London in Tier 2" ?
78
30/11/2020 18:25:15 97 14
bbc
Absolutely, London, particularly East London has much higher causes and is put in tier 2
147
30/11/2020 18:50:33 5 3
bbc
Well come Dec 16th all may change , if people in tier 3 areas continue to bring figures down they will move down to tier 2 and vice versa if those in tier 2 don’t follow rules they will move to tier 3
421
Bob
30/11/2020 21:26:11 2 0
bbc
Fewer areas in London vs. areas in Manchester. Furthermore it isn't based on cases. As was mentioned before entering into the 'lockdown' age and hospital pressures will be taken into account and are primary contributors to decisions.

Crucially then hospital numbers, and therefore pressures are much lower in those areas you speak of.
503
30/11/2020 21:42:37 5 2
bbc
Number of Covid patients in the whole of Birmingham Last week (all four hospitals)= 458. Number of Covid patients in hospital in EAST London alone last week = 501. Birmingham out in Tier 3, London in Tier 2. How come?
01/12/2020 08:09:22 0 0
bbc
And south London significantly lower .
23
30/11/2020 18:10:05 5 8
bbc
Anyone else feel like the delay was to allow time for a little tweaking?
79
30/11/2020 18:25:40 0 3
bbc
yep
47
30/11/2020 18:17:29 11 13
bbc
FULL lockdown. Nothing less will suffice. Nothing less will stop the spread.

Get rid of these 'tiers' and other silly get-out clauses and categories.

It's time for the government to act like a government.
80
Ian
30/11/2020 18:26:12 4 3
bbc
Coupled with a meaningful punishment for politicians and celebrities who break the rules.

£10k fine for Rita Ora was probably budgeted for when the "spur of the moment" party was planned. Fine every attendee and shut the restaurant for 3 months to make examples of them.
155
37p
30/11/2020 18:52:07 0 1
bbc
Executions are the way to go!
81
30/11/2020 18:26:48 31 8
bbc
So...the NHS underpins society and the economy. But it is fine and dandy to wantonly destroy the only way this organisation can be paid for...a thriving private sector generating wealth and taxes.
94
30/11/2020 18:29:40 14 9
bbc
but what about those generating wealth and then not paying taxes like Philip Green's wife?
82
30/11/2020 18:26:53 2 2
bbc
I’m pretty certain that I read somewhere that to date the mortality rate within the UK is currently running at approx 20% higher than in ‘normal’ twelve month cycle.

If true, it’s quite difficult to conclude that C-19 is NOT an implication & can anyone point me to the ‘20%’ data?

Thanks very much in advance.
116
37p
30/11/2020 18:37:46 1 1
bbc
Data is on the ONS website.
120
30/11/2020 18:39:37 0 1
bbc
Mystic Meg might. It is nowhere near 20%
179
30/11/2020 19:01:10 0 1
bbc
Deaths 2.6% above average in SE England; hospitals at 30% level of peak in April and cases and admissions both falling despite being skewed by Kent. This clearly justifies a “high risk alert” (not)
Removed
38
30/11/2020 18:15:25 8 7
bbc
The govt is in a lose - lose war at the moment. If they have no restrictions cases and deaths will shoot up - as in the USA. That's bad politically.

If they do what the scientists want - total lockdown until everyone is vaccinated - the economy dies. That's bad too.

They have to strike a balance somewhere in the middle. There is no perfect solution. It'll be over in a few months so suck it up.
84
30/11/2020 18:27:06 1 1
bbc
A lot of us don’t mind restrictions, just object to be put in tier 3 when we have lower cases than places like East London.
85
30/11/2020 18:27:13 102 12
bbc
One of the most nausea inducing aspects of this catastrophic government is Door Matt Hancock being scrutinised by the parliamentary committee chaired by Jeremy Hunt who was responsible for denuding the NHS of staff and resources whilst Health Secretary.

He has the cheek to blame Hancock for problems when he planted all the seeds for failure.
360
30/11/2020 21:13:49 29 8
bbc
Can we have a data report on idiots like Rita
819
30/11/2020 23:18:27 2 1
bbc
They are both out of touch, money grabbing, thick as two sh*ts Tories. Regardless of their £80k+/a position in government.

But hey, at least we fixed the roof while the sun was.... oh wait, that was a lie.
01/12/2020 10:11:24 1 0
bbc
The NHS has a budget of £157 billion and employs 1.2 million people. How can it possibly be short of money or staff? The system is completely shot and not fit for purpose!
86
30/11/2020 18:27:15 183 45
bbc
by gum johnsons changed his tune. remember when he was condeming starmer for proposing a two week national lockdown which would harm areas where the virus wasnt high? johnson is the original captain hindsight. what a charlatan!!!!
337
30/11/2020 21:05:50 112 107
bbc
It's the appalling press and the left who are the captain hindsights and have no better idea what should be done, except to criticise. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. No PM in history would have stood a chance in such unchartered waters.
513
30/11/2020 21:44:57 12 1
bbc
The crazy part is telling us to keep the 'brakes' on to keep the infection rate down, when Xmas is going to be full speed ahead, with people mixing again. Walk, don't walk, eat out, don't eat out, stay in, go out..... crazy.
01/12/2020 13:14:08 0 0
bbc
I do not belie e he ever condemned anybody as you suggest.
87
30/11/2020 18:27:20 8 4
bbc
I've searched the report and I can't find the data they used to set the tiers other than in abroad brush sense despite what the BBC article says. Most is available elsewhere if you search hard enough but there is no information on localised NHS capacity or current occupancy levels so no chance of MPS genuinely challenging their tiering based on facts. That was what I thought they wanted?
172
30/11/2020 18:58:04 4 3
bbc
It is on the gov website - per upper tier local authority ie county and unitary. Sneakily the justification sometime groups together areas - so Hampshire is grouped with Southampton and Portsmouth which pushes the average up; same with Dorset and Bournemouth. Looks like number deliberately fiddled to justify places in T2 not T1
88
30/11/2020 18:28:06 23 3
bbc
The thing is people watch, read and listen these days to the news & stats that agree with them. No dossier is going to convince virus denier don't believe in experts types. Similarly no list of business failure and suicide stats is going to convince a pandemic first type. The world is divided on many issues because the internet makes possible selective facts. So people are going to have to die...
109
37p
30/11/2020 18:35:38 3 14
bbc
I think I know which you are!
17
30/11/2020 18:08:24 19 14
bbc
At the end of the day, they are basing all their decisions on incorrect data. We know that the testing is completely incorrect, in fact pillar 2 testing has a false positive rate of about 90%, and marking deaths as C-19 when someone has had a positive test within 28 days is farcical.
89
30/11/2020 18:28:09 6 3
bbc
Go on then; where is this magical "correct data" hiding & why wouldn't the government use it, IF it existed (which it doesn't).
We know nothing of the sort & P2 testing does NOT have "a false positive rate of about 90%".
Do you deniers get some kind of kick from fabricating nonsense?
106
30/11/2020 18:35:08 3 5
bbc
Read this: https://lockdownsceptics.org/lies-damned-lies-and-health-statistics-the-deadly-danger-of-false-positives/

We don’t get a kick out of fabricating nonsense. We simply want people to accept that the stuff they are told in the MSM may not be correct and it help so to do your own research to make an informed decision.
47
30/11/2020 18:17:29 11 13
bbc
FULL lockdown. Nothing less will suffice. Nothing less will stop the spread.

Get rid of these 'tiers' and other silly get-out clauses and categories.

It's time for the government to act like a government.
90
IJB
30/11/2020 18:28:45 1 1
bbc
Totally agree
91
30/11/2020 18:26:51 7 8
bbc
Just follow rules, until next year when hopefully we have vaccine. Those who wish to endanger lives by ignoring rules could succumb to Covid but don't expect sympathy. If only the anti-lockdowners, which includes Career MPs,could be turned away from Hospital if they become seriously ill. But they wont be. And the State, you, me ,us will watch as these senseless, deplorable citizens are treated.
139
NGB
30/11/2020 18:47:52 0 2
bbc
Delete 'anti-lockdowners' and insert 'granny-huggers'
92
30/11/2020 18:29:17 63 48
bbc
As always Labour are the political opportunists. No interest in public health just political points scoring. Until Starmer grows up then Labour will remain in permanent opposition.
102
30/11/2020 18:34:25 47 33
bbc
I just want to know when Tory Bots will grow up and stop with their propaganda. It's Tories who are going to vote against these measures, not Labour, despite their genuine concerns!
93
30/11/2020 18:29:19 32 14
bbc
A lot of people have asked why London is in tier 2 and not tier 3. The reason is that Downing Street is in London and Boris feels that after having to deal with the incompetence of Matt Hancock and Grant Shapps all day, and endure the bullying from Priti Patel as well he needs a drink down the pub. And if London was in Tier 3 he couldn't do that.
165
30/11/2020 18:55:31 12 7
bbc
No the reason is that London rate is 155; Manchester 206 & NW England is 173. Half of London is below 100. The mayor insists on keeping London together and therefore does run a high risk of being moved to T3 due to east London.
197
30/11/2020 19:10:32 4 3
bbc
London is in tier 2 because it's hospitals are not in any danger of being overwhelmed. However those in areas are, particularly those whose inhabitants have continually refused to comply any and all restrictions
401
30/11/2020 21:22:57 0 1
bbc
Yes he could - the government would line up to back him because he was testing his eyesight in the pub.
504
30/11/2020 21:43:07 1 1
bbc
Boris doesn't go for a drink down the pub, clot - he walks into one of the the subsidised bars in the HoC and drinks there because it is far cheaper.
81
30/11/2020 18:26:48 31 8
bbc
So...the NHS underpins society and the economy. But it is fine and dandy to wantonly destroy the only way this organisation can be paid for...a thriving private sector generating wealth and taxes.
94
30/11/2020 18:29:40 14 9
bbc
but what about those generating wealth and then not paying taxes like Philip Green's wife?
15
30/11/2020 18:07:33 39 19
bbc
Time for these decisions makers to put in the stocks.....
95
30/11/2020 18:30:06 47 52
bbc
I'm sure you're a global expert & would make it all work in 5 seconds flat...

...or perhaps you're just political point scoring like most of the left.

Looking at the rest of Europe, the UK is doing pretty damn' well at handling this crisis.
117
W 6
30/11/2020 18:38:28 12 11
bbc
Highest death toll per capita and worst recession out of all the G7 countries. What a triumph!
125
30/11/2020 18:41:41 15 6
bbc
Another far-righty who thinks all people with an opposite view to him are lefties.
266
30/11/2020 20:00:09 7 10
bbc
LOL worst deaths, worst economic impact in Europe. If thats good in your mind you must be a blinkered 'sunny uplands' brexiteer!
01/12/2020 11:08:29 1 0
bbc
Yes, highest expenditure, and highest death rates.
And highest proportion of unusable PPE.But, yes, we have done quite well despite Johnson et al.
56
30/11/2020 18:19:46 8 10
bbc
They have been trying since March 23rd to keep it under control, but the irony is, it kept itself under control. After March, April & May it has followed the path of previous years and nothing we did or done would have changed that. They are deluded if they think they can influence an airborne virus. Now the pandemic is over can we kindly get back on with our lives.
96
30/11/2020 18:30:26 5 4
bbc
I feel that this pandemic is a long way off being over.

“This is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.”
126
30/11/2020 18:41:59 0 5
bbc
You are sadly mistaken, it is well past its sell by date. It ended in May. Go to euromomo.eu and take a look at the graph for England in the years 2017 / 2018 and then compare to this from May. You will notice excess deaths higher in the previous years. Or go to Ivor Cummings youtube 8th September video on the watch his projection forecast. Im pleased to inform you it is over.
51
30/11/2020 18:18:11 12 10
bbc
Critics demand to see the data used to decide tiers.

Critics cry "it's all made up & we don't believe you".

Critics look very silly indeed.

I consider the government's actions to be balanced, reasonable & if anything, somewhat overly lenient.

As for demanding a "people's say" on the matter: Grow up, as a significant number have demonstrated their selfishness & ignorance already.
97
30/11/2020 18:29:11 1 1
bbc
Have you actually read the government paper? It doesn't contain this data at a UTLA level, only by English region. I.e., it does not split out the metrics for each bucket that has been placed in a tier together
98
30/11/2020 18:32:11 6 6
bbc
Bojo is showing his true colours about levelling up the north. It was yet another clear lie from him. He’s hell bent on destroying the north and driving it back to the early post war years. If you’re not on the border or south of the M25, Tories don’t care a damm.
112
30/11/2020 18:36:17 1 4
bbc
Where the hell did you get that from. Where is the data to support it
99
30/11/2020 18:32:28 1 4
bbc
The Lib Dems are happy for you to carry on regardless and if you catch the virus then tough. It's to be hoped that you don't die.
105
30/11/2020 18:35:01 3 4
bbc
Fake news. The LDs are in favour of all possible restrictions to prevent a melt down but are voting against these restrictions because they are too complicated and don't ensure the prevention of a third wave.
107
30/11/2020 18:35:19 1 4
bbc
Totally agree
7
30/11/2020 18:02:39 184 56
bbc
Lots of hospitality venues with no food offering will be obliterated unless further support is forthcoming. Tory break up of a key part of our social fabric, particularly, yes you guessed it, in the North of England. The necessary support would be a drop in the ocean compared to what is being spent on testing and track & trace.
100
30/11/2020 18:32:50 18 16
bbc
Yeah, the evil Tories want to close all the pubs & clubs, despite the owners of them being mostly Tory supporters & in the case of the brewing industry, big donators to Tory coffers.

I've never yet worked out the twisted "logic" used by the left.
121
30/11/2020 18:39:45 7 10
bbc
Lots of assumptions there with very little factual evidence. Apart from Tim can you off the top of your head name anyone else in brewing? The answer was no you couldn't!
691
PJB
30/11/2020 22:38:36 0 0
bbc
Your "twisted logic" is not a lefty thing it's a northern thing.

From one of many million ex Tories north of Warwick.