'Rugby needs to change its laws'
29/11/2020
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sport
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rugbyunion
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Former England scrum-half Matt Dawson says rugby needs to change its laws to keep it entertaining for all fans.
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jkparr
29/11/2020 11:36:30
55
11
bbc
Rugby Union is now so boring it is not worth watching on TV let alone paying a fortune to go to Twickenham. Get ride of the TMO, let the referee do his job, put the ball in straight at scrums and penalise the cheating at scrums, rucks and mauls by making the tackled player release the ball as soon as he hits the ground
Agreed, currently scrums are a waste of time as the scrum half puts the ball in to his own side, the ball should be put in straight in the middle then both sides can contest it
Thats easier said than done. Don't forget the tackler is hanging on for as long as he dare. That has to be dealt with first. But the laws are their to deal with everything. At the top level refs will tell you thay are asked to let things go in the interest of open play and spectators enjoyment. A subject that is condemned by grass roots refs, whose opinions are rarely taken into account
Regarding the put-in - scrums usually happen because a side has infringed so I’m not sure that a scrum should be a 50:50 contest.
Stopping the clock for scrums - we’d just get another 10 minutes of kicking tennis wouldn’t we?
Stopping the clock for scrums - we’d just get another 10 minutes of kicking tennis wouldn’t we?
Tom is good in principle, but refs ask loaded questions, e.g. "anything wrong with the grounding?"
"No."
But to isn't allowed to mention the forward pass before the grounding, or the obstruction and so on.
"No."
But to isn't allowed to mention the forward pass before the grounding, or the obstruction and so on.
If the tacked player releases the ball as soon as they hit the ground then they are likely to gift the ball to the defending team. This only adds to the problem of players not trying to be creative runners and risk being isolated.
"Rugby Union... so boring...not worth watching"
Since when?
RWC was BRILLIANT! Japan vs Scotland/Ireland, Uraguay vs Fiji, Australia vs Eng, Engl vs NZ. Loads of cracking games.
Oh yeah, What about Eng vs Wales in this year's 6N or Scotland vs France?
The death of rugby is THIS month's story. No need for new laws.
Teams will work out the rush defence and the game will evolve.
Since when?
RWC was BRILLIANT! Japan vs Scotland/Ireland, Uraguay vs Fiji, Australia vs Eng, Engl vs NZ. Loads of cracking games.
Oh yeah, What about Eng vs Wales in this year's 6N or Scotland vs France?
The death of rugby is THIS month's story. No need for new laws.
Teams will work out the rush defence and the game will evolve.
The Saints v Quins game was full of exciting running rugby. An outstanding performance by Marcus Smith. You don’t need law changes.
Smith ? ex England apprentice.... if he did things in training like passing, creating space, looking to get 3/4 line moving with ball in hand then Eddie will never call him up again...
Good point. Though the Falcons v Sharks game on Friday night was dire, even the commentators were complaining. Endless kicking and thoroughly turgid.
Start penalising the laws first. Countless offsides ignored by refs allow teams to close any space down.
Bring back the ruck which will force players to commit a little more also making more space and bring back a great competitive element.
In fact, lets make it easy and revert to the laws from 80s/90s.
Bring back the ruck which will force players to commit a little more also making more space and bring back a great competitive element.
In fact, lets make it easy and revert to the laws from 80s/90s.
Some really interesting points, but given how many tries were scored during the 2019 WC and some of the amazing rugby we saw I think it'd be rash to make big changes to rules. Would also be interested as with the other sports how differently sides play with no crowd and how much this is impacting the games.
Clock off on scrums definitely though, far too much dead time and sides abuse this.
Clock off on scrums definitely though, far too much dead time and sides abuse this.
Don't forget that rugby is more than just the professional game. At the lower levels there are only three substitutes. Resetting scrums gives players the chance of a breather. If amateur games were to go on for 90 or 100 minutes because of clock stops for scrums there would be far more injuries to tired bodies.
Interestingly Poite started calling penalties to get the game to move on from the scrum. I think this is the protocol.
Make it a freekick and one where a re-scrum cannot be called. Kick away or run. These are the new 'covid' rules for the womans game...
Make it a freekick and one where a re-scrum cannot be called. Kick away or run. These are the new 'covid' rules for the womans game...
If you turn the clock off for scrums, the game will last hours - its already over 2 hours most matches. Better to form a scrum quickly, e.g. within 20 seconds, and you have one attempt - if it collapses through no failt of either team there is a free kick, but if there is an offence its an immediate penalty.
I agree completely. I don't think rule changes would be of any use.
Some really interesting....take a look at the recent StHelens v Wigan game for fitness over 80mins, technique, tension, commitment, edge of the seat stuff....no crowds but made no difference whatsover. Local derby & one of the best Grand Final games ever. Reduce RU to 14 players & see the difference!!
Bring back the old method of setting a scrum. Ref's in the middle, hecks both teams and steps back, scrums engage, ball comes in, hooked or driven back and balls out.
Worked for decades.
Worked for decades.
If we clock off scrums we could end up with games taking 2 hours.
Offer the team a free kick OR scrum.
Sick of seeing a side that loses the ball in contact then awarded a dodgy penalty from the opposition scrum - net result is a gain from your own knock on.
If a side is getting beat at the scrum then there is no alternative out - they just leak penalties
Offer the team a free kick OR scrum.
Sick of seeing a side that loses the ball in contact then awarded a dodgy penalty from the opposition scrum - net result is a gain from your own knock on.
If a side is getting beat at the scrum then there is no alternative out - they just leak penalties
We don't need new laws. We need to apply the ones we have. Support your own body weight at a ruck. Shoulders above hips at a ruck. Offside at a ruck or maul. Forward pass, offside at kick, not straight at lineout and scrum, a 99bseocnd conference before each lineout, 8 replacements. Tmo ffs shut up and stop interfering.
Nope, don't agree otherwise it's thin end of wedge and in 10 years time we'll have American football style time outs and God knows what. Then they'll do away with proper contested scrum and it'll be league like, no line outs etc.
Had you watched last Friday's Grand Final, you might become a convert. Non-stop action & excellent use of VAR.
I can't stand players strolling up to line outs & ten-minute scrums. Sorry.
I can't stand players strolling up to line outs & ten-minute scrums. Sorry.
Greed mate, all tier 1 care about is money... paywall, pay per view... is it £80 for a replica shirt made in a 3rd world sweat shop ?
Totally agree, sat down to watch the match yesterday only to find its on Amazon, I don't need another subscription channel. Really disgusted, I'm finished with it!
Completely agree! Once the 6N goes behind a pay per view, I'll give up going. I'll spend my hard earned cash in the local pub.
What do you mean 'fans can access'? Fans can access every channel.
Every major sport has this problem. If it gets too big the powers that be commercialise it. And unless enough fans repel and vote with their wallets nothing's going to change e.g. £14.99 PPV few fans went for it so they got rid and are now looking at other ways to get money. The people in charge don't care about the real fans but they care about PR
Did you stop and think no other company wanted to pay a fair price?
Rugby Union being on the headline of prime video is more exposure than it would have got anywhere else.
Rugby Union being on the headline of prime video is more exposure than it would have got anywhere else.
Why? Football is mostly behind a paywall and is still the most watch sport in Britain. I would like the 6 nations to stay free but all the rest can go behind a paywall just preferably in one place but hasn’t stop football from growing. Amazon paid the rights for these games at a time when all the unions needed cash and it would cost you £19.98 to watch all the games don’t think that’s much to ask.
Signed up for a free month trial the day of the first match and watched all games live. You can even rewatch it back at a later date. Also got some of the xmas shopping done whilst I'm at it. At least it's not on sky. ??
Yesterdays game was on S4C, a free channel. Commentary in welsh, but it's not beyond the wit of man to turn the sound down and put BBC 5 Live Sports Extra on.
The two matches were available on Amazon Prime - either to watch live or later. This is available easily to almost any potential spectator. Since the nations have received no gate money for a year, is it any surprise that the match packages are sold to the highest bidder?
It was on SC4, Welsh commentary but listening to garbage in English is worse thana language one cannot understand (I am Welsh but dont speak the language). At least the broadcast quality is good. Unlike Amazon.
Autumn internationals have been on subscription channels for 20 years. But now people choose to complain. You can't please everyone and if BBC/ ITV etc aren't willing to pay a decent price you can't blame the RFU for seeking alternatives. Especially as they've lost millions because of Covid
You’re right of course, showing the match behind a pay wall on an marginal digital channel will do nothing for the game. Sadly the RFU is distancing itself from its grass roots.
You didn’t miss anything. You can watch most matches on 2x speed and not miss anything. It’s possible to make tea while a scrum sets.
And the kicking? Mostly dreadful, but necessary because there’s forwards all over the pitch. When they get tired, more come on. When Curry’s brother gets picked, they can play flat out for 80 mins. Underhill/Willis too.
Daft.
And the kicking? Mostly dreadful, but necessary because there’s forwards all over the pitch. When they get tired, more come on. When Curry’s brother gets picked, they can play flat out for 80 mins. Underhill/Willis too.
Daft.
I think the issue is Amazon - people already subscribe to two platforms for most sport and don’t want to have a third just for RU. I think people need to be very wary of Amazon or Google getting involved in live sport. They already dominate markets in such a way that has democratic governments rightly worried.
It wasn't advertised widely, but all the Autumn Nations matches involving Wales were free to view on the Welsh-language channel S4C.
No point if the rugby on offer not worth watching.
Knee jerk, looks like Eng are practicing after getting battered by SA in the WC final. Eddy said he isn't working on attack just yet. Fast defence is what beat the ABs and continues to cause them issues.
Don't like the gurning ,egotistical wannabe jungle celebrity (esp since Lions 2001 when him and Healey threw their dummies out when they weren't picked) but he is absolutely right on this. It's not players fault. OUR game is THE beautiful game but it's not pretty at the moment. Well said Dawson.
Things would be improved a long way by enforcing offside at rucks. The defending teams almost always steal a metre and that could be the difference between space being available and not.
Totally agree Drew. This is the main thing killing the game.
Excellent article. Can't say I agree with everything MD says, but we do need to talk as a sport! Rugby could begin by enforcing the rules we have. Obstruction, going off your feet at rucks are now tactics. Players train on how to obstruct players around the breakdown and while chasing play. Is any ruck contested properly these days? Players train to kill the ball at rucks.
How about offside seems most games I have watched recently the offside rule hasn't been adhered to or punished.
Spot on. Slowing down the rucks has been a defensive game plan for all major teams for a number of years now.
Many diehards will hate this - rugby pitches are of relatively fixed dimensions therefore the only way to create more space is to reduce the players per side - if it were by two, wing forwards or no 8 and centre are the obvious options - clearly some of the best players in the world occupy these roles currently - doing nothing is a guarantee that rugby union will eventually disappear
I think Rugby's biggest danger is that the sport will be put behind a paywall, especially the 6N. Just need to look at Cricket, the ECB got greedy and they are now paying the price with huge drop in numbers playing sport.
I agree as well with MD that they need to make the sport more enjoyable to watch with more emphasis on passing and running rather than kicking it up and down for possession.
I agree as well with MD that they need to make the sport more enjoyable to watch with more emphasis on passing and running rather than kicking it up and down for possession.
Bad enough now, to watch a wide range of rugby you need SKY very expensive or BT just expensive and now Amazon sort of OK if you have decent internet which I like lots of people don't have!
The 6N has Category B protection, so it must be available to be shown in full on free-to-air as soon as the final whistle blows. So Sky will have the 6Nations live in 2022 with the BBC 2 hours later.
Yes, when I was young cricket was always on the summer box and although I didn’t watch it, I thought that will be good in retirement. Now I’m old it’s just tat on auctions so I’m in the garden
Luckily I have prime for the rugby but my loathing of murdoch precludes subscribing to sky
Luckily I have prime for the rugby but my loathing of murdoch precludes subscribing to sky
At least let’s do away with the “mark” so the attacking team can press its advantage.
I'd go further ... taking test cricket off terrestrial TV has virtually killed the sport. In my day messers Gooch, Gatt, Gower, Beef, Lamb, Embers et al were household names that every schoolboy instantly knew - each one as big, at least, as an England footballer. That largely went out the window once the BBC lost the coverage rights. The "100" is a complete waste of effort. Rugby take note.
''Killing The Ball Is Killing The Game''.
They need to enforce the laws that are already in place. Tackler must release immediately. Ball carrier must then release immediately. Two players over the ball, one each team, is a ruck. That means no hands allowed. A few more yellow cards in the defending 22m are required, as well as a few more penalty tries. One season only, the players will learn.
They need to enforce the laws that are already in place. Tackler must release immediately. Ball carrier must then release immediately. Two players over the ball, one each team, is a ruck. That means no hands allowed. A few more yellow cards in the defending 22m are required, as well as a few more penalty tries. One season only, the players will learn.
Definitely more yellows. They’re all professionals, any indiscretions should be dealt with harshly. That will open the game up massively.
Bring back scrum half's hands on the ball constitutes it being out. They've made so many laws to increase/improve running that players are less able to do things quickly or spontaneously and the game is getting very very dull - small ruck after small ruck but no pace added to the ball, then just worked moves in the back line as they have 20 yards between the teams but no advantage/ground gained.
You’re right. The Laws used to say that players have a responsibility to know the Laws; professionals certainly do. Referees warning players all the time to stay onside etc deprives the non-offending side of legitimate penalties, and affects outcome. Too many referee controllers producing a formula, & pro refs afraid of losing their living if they don’t do what they’re told.
So the ball will be rucked with feet? Ask JPR and Phil de Glanville about that. Players lie on the ball because rucking the player has been outlawed. Only 2 players at ruck? Which 2? Do they wear different coloured shirts? Just when Eng have superb depth in 'jackals' they want to change the laws. Hmmm.
Forcing the ball carrier to release quickly is what is causing the problem. It makes throwing the ball wide or even making a line break too risky because you are likely to get isolated and turn the ball over, and a penalty is making it even worse. Not releasing the ball should be reduced to a free kick, unless you are in your own 22.
Rugby Union is now so boring it is not worth watching on TV let alone paying a fortune to go to Twickenham. Get ride of the TMO, let the referee do his job, put the ball in straight at scrums and penalise the cheating at scrums, rucks and mauls by making the tackled player release the ball as soon as he hits the ground
That ship sailed years ago - when was the last penalty from feeding? Scrums outcome a given- like League - just looks better as you have four extra fatties propping it up
That used to be the rule and a penalty was awarded for 'feeding to your own feet'.
The laws don’t need changing, the head coach does....
Other teams can throw the ball about but Eddie is obsessed with bish bash bosh......
Wallabies, All Blacks, France & to be fair the Islanders still seem to do the old stuff like passing across the backline...
England have a pack that wins ball but half backs that waste it...
Other teams can throw the ball about but Eddie is obsessed with bish bash bosh......
Wallabies, All Blacks, France & to be fair the Islanders still seem to do the old stuff like passing across the backline...
England have a pack that wins ball but half backs that waste it...
Sorry, this is an article about suggestions to changing the laws to improve the game. There’s 2 other threads for you to express your butthurt on
Watch more rugby. It’s not just England kicking... NZ France also kicked loads yesterday... and guess what they both won.
My suggestion- remove both flankers- the other forwards will need to be more mobile and lighter- reducing injury chances- and the game will open up.
Ridiculous statement, we already have that scenario, it's called rugby league. They just need to apply the laws that already exist and leave the scrums alone. As an ex-hooker I know front-rows instinctively know when to engage. Trying to figure out the cadence of different refs instructions must be a nightmare, hence the constant resetting of scrums. Also put the effing ball in straight!
Scrums are a nightmare, it's become bigger than the game itself. It's a way of restarting the game. If its doesn't improve the only way to go is rugby league style. Bring back proper rucking. If you end up on the wrong side of one tough. Rugby has gone to a game of who can get away with interpretations of the laws best.
Policing that the ball is put into the tunnel straight and not skewed under the feet of the second row would help a lot.
At last - a rugby union person admitting the game is too slow, too arcane & too boring.
Suggestions: 30 sec time clock for (uncontested) scrums. Offending pack = non-scoring penalty.
Kicking directly in to touch = free kick.
Drop goal = 1 point.
Penalty = 2 points.
Max. 8 phases per possession.
Alternatively, just watch RL and see stunners like last Friday's Grand Final.
Suggestions: 30 sec time clock for (uncontested) scrums. Offending pack = non-scoring penalty.
Kicking directly in to touch = free kick.
Drop goal = 1 point.
Penalty = 2 points.
Max. 8 phases per possession.
Alternatively, just watch RL and see stunners like last Friday's Grand Final.
Whilst I understand where Matt is coming from if we want a more open game we need the reverse of less players in rucks. More players in the ruck would increase the space for moving the ball. At the moment there often 14 players lined up in defence stifling attack. Also by favouring the defence at rucks there is more incentive for attacking players to avoid being tacked leading to more off loading.
agree, making it more difficult for the jackler would simply encourage pick n drives all the way up the pitch. I would propose doing to complete opposite. make it more difficult for the attacking team at the ruck, making sure the supporting players stay on their feet, not flying in to clear out.
Doubt this. We've watched Exeter put together 30-40 phases several times in a game over the last few years before the refs were told to crack down on attacking rucks since the first lockdown. That style was beyond boring and this article is knee jerk. Look at the points scored in the prem this weekend.
The Nations Cup going to Amazon was a real kick in the stones.
Where do you think all rugby teams would be without financial input? You are in cloud cuckoo land.
Stop moaning! So were do you think the 'money' goes? Owners? Shareholder's? No, it goes into ground improvements, players wages etc. Do you begrudge these players a wage that reflects their skill and comittment? Also, don't know about Celtic unions but the RFU have been excellent to lower clubs during these lockdowns. That's where the money goes.
Yes , go back to bring an amateur sport and play internationals in local parks as Union won’t be able to afford any decent club infrastructure. And I suspect the number of people who use Amazon prime on a daily basis is the same as the number of tv licences paid for . So these matches are probably more accessible than the last 15 years of Autumn internationals on Sky or 6N on terrestrial.
Quite a simple rule change would suffice 5 metres back from the breakdown as the scrum It will stop the rush defences and allow more room to attack.
There are two choices. reduce the number of players or just interpret the current laws correctly. Space is whats needed and there isn't any as long as the offside at the kick ahead etc is not controlled properly. Perhaps players should be behind the kicker at the point of impact, it rarely is. Backrows are breaking off early. When questioned referees want to see the ball moving, Where to?
You are spot on! The offside line being refereed properly is the key to opening up more space. Defending players are NEVER behind the back foot at rucks while the kick is routinely chased by players starting in front of the kicker. In addition the clock MUST stop for set piece scrums. So many collapse - it makes for painful viewing. Loathe to switch to RLeague but it's close.
Bill McLaren used to say that that the offside law is fundamental to rugby: if it isn't enforced, you don't have a game. Some of the current referees appear to be ignoring it wilfully.
The Saints v Quins game was full of exciting running rugby. An outstanding performance by Marcus Smith. You don’t need law changes.
Matt said that there wasn't a single South African player that would get in the England team before the rugby World Cup Final.
Give the fans what they want I guess....but insightful he ain't.
Give the fans what they want I guess....but insightful he ain't.
That was a team based on the Semi final performance. A team of the week type selection and on the basis of England bearing NZ and SA scraping through v Wales .
Prior to the final he was largely right... Winning the semi final cost England the final!
Ha ha he was also a yappy little sod, typical scrum half. They always know best and make a point of pointing it out all game. Despite only Captains allowed to talk to the ref. Daws was a classic.
I think Rugby's biggest danger is that the sport will be put behind a paywall, especially the 6N. Just need to look at Cricket, the ECB got greedy and they are now paying the price with huge drop in numbers playing sport.
I agree as well with MD that they need to make the sport more enjoyable to watch with more emphasis on passing and running rather than kicking it up and down for possession.
I agree as well with MD that they need to make the sport more enjoyable to watch with more emphasis on passing and running rather than kicking it up and down for possession.
Why? Most kids have access to Sky or many of the other streaming platforms
There's no such thing as free to air. Over 70% of the population has access to the required channels. IF people want to watch the games they can... it's simple and is NOT a priority.
The laws don’t need changing, the head coach does....
Other teams can throw the ball about but Eddie is obsessed with bish bash bosh......
Wallabies, All Blacks, France & to be fair the Islanders still seem to do the old stuff like passing across the backline...
England have a pack that wins ball but half backs that waste it...
Other teams can throw the ball about but Eddie is obsessed with bish bash bosh......
Wallabies, All Blacks, France & to be fair the Islanders still seem to do the old stuff like passing across the backline...
England have a pack that wins ball but half backs that waste it...
Read my 1st line, the laws don’t need changing...
Bath relic ? Perhaps your old enough to remember your backline, Hill, Barnes, Guscott, DeGlanville, Webb... Matt Perry, Iain Balshaw... Halliday... all would be wasted under Eddie, he’d be fuming at them for passing, sidestepping, counter attacking...
Bath relic ? Perhaps your old enough to remember your backline, Hill, Barnes, Guscott, DeGlanville, Webb... Matt Perry, Iain Balshaw... Halliday... all would be wasted under Eddie, he’d be fuming at them for passing, sidestepping, counter attacking...
So an opinion that says the laws don't need changing isn't relevant to an article about changing the laws? Fool.
Just watch Rugby League instead. I swapped many years ago and have never looked back
With League you know you are going to get a kick from 4th to 6th play and depending where the ball is on the pitch determines the type of kick - it's rarely a kick for the sake of kicking.
Fr were kicking and waiting for It's to make a mistake. Its a function of defence being favorised when the intention is to do the opposite!
League are the experts of offload, union priority protect ball...
Fr were kicking and waiting for It's to make a mistake. Its a function of defence being favorised when the intention is to do the opposite!
League are the experts of offload, union priority protect ball...
I did for a while, even went to some games but I found it all pretty much one-paced: run, tackle, run, tackle, run, tackle, run, tackle, run, tackle, kick. I like Union for its variety in pace and scenarios but England's constant ruck-pass-kick is now entering what I see as the repetitiveness of League.
I think Rugby's biggest danger is that the sport will be put behind a paywall, especially the 6N. Just need to look at Cricket, the ECB got greedy and they are now paying the price with huge drop in numbers playing sport.
I agree as well with MD that they need to make the sport more enjoyable to watch with more emphasis on passing and running rather than kicking it up and down for possession.
I agree as well with MD that they need to make the sport more enjoyable to watch with more emphasis on passing and running rather than kicking it up and down for possession.
It’s peculiar that the game gets far more interesting and enjoyable, with less players on the pitch, eg Sevens.
Excellent article. Can't say I agree with everything MD says, but we do need to talk as a sport! Rugby could begin by enforcing the rules we have. Obstruction, going off your feet at rucks are now tactics. Players train on how to obstruct players around the breakdown and while chasing play. Is any ruck contested properly these days? Players train to kill the ball at rucks.
Excellent article. Can't say I agree with everything MD says, but we do need to talk as a sport! Rugby could begin by enforcing the rules we have. Obstruction, going off your feet at rucks are now tactics. Players train on how to obstruct players around the breakdown and while chasing play. Is any ruck contested properly these days? Players train to kill the ball at rucks.
Rugby Union is now so boring it is not worth watching on TV let alone paying a fortune to go to Twickenham. Get ride of the TMO, let the referee do his job, put the ball in straight at scrums and penalise the cheating at scrums, rucks and mauls by making the tackled player release the ball as soon as he hits the ground
Thats easier said than done. Don't forget the tackler is hanging on for as long as he dare. That has to be dealt with first. But the laws are their to deal with everything. At the top level refs will tell you thay are asked to let things go in the interest of open play and spectators enjoyment. A subject that is condemned by grass roots refs, whose opinions are rarely taken into account
Old style rucks would soon stop holding on. Best spectacle of the game removed by the pc brigade.
The Saints v Quins game was full of exciting running rugby. An outstanding performance by Marcus Smith. You don’t need law changes.
Looking back, the tinkering with laws to make the game more 'entertaining' has been a negative. Remember that the scrum "engage" or 'hit' was brought in to do that which has led to bigger props and hookers and made it's way through the team.
Perhaps go back a bit and actually enforce the laws that exist?
Perhaps go back a bit and actually enforce the laws that exist?
The Autumn internationals have been dreadfully full. The changes to the laws are making the game less free flowing and more turgid. Something does need to be done to encourage more flair, more elan or basically what the french seem to be trying
Clock off for scrums, and straight feeds would be good. Also less replacements, so players get to tired and space opens up. Also new fresh players tackling the few who play the whole game risk injuring them.
Agree totally , reduce the number of replacements ,players will have to be fitter but space opens when teams get tired which just doesn't happen with so many replacements.and a penalty virtually every scrum that is just a farce I thought going forward was the advantage.
Completely agree. No replacements unless medical. Would mean only players fit enough to survive 80 minutes would make it. Final third of the match would then open up and the better teams would have the space to play entertaining rugby
The modern game with its abundance of fixtures as in other sports, dictates the use of the "squad" mentality, fresh legs less injuries. Careful what you mess about with! Robbing Peter to pay Paul is never the way forward. I like the comment about RLGrand Final, theses guys are hard and fit. It really is not such a bad game to watch. You do however have to put your bigotry on one side to do so !
At last - a rugby union person admitting the game is too slow, too arcane & too boring.
Suggestions: 30 sec time clock for (uncontested) scrums. Offending pack = non-scoring penalty.
Kicking directly in to touch = free kick.
Drop goal = 1 point.
Penalty = 2 points.
Max. 8 phases per possession.
Alternatively, just watch RL and see stunners like last Friday's Grand Final.
Suggestions: 30 sec time clock for (uncontested) scrums. Offending pack = non-scoring penalty.
Kicking directly in to touch = free kick.
Drop goal = 1 point.
Penalty = 2 points.
Max. 8 phases per possession.
Alternatively, just watch RL and see stunners like last Friday's Grand Final.
I would like to see the constant kick tennis eliminated, allow each side 1 return kick, but then any attempted kick penalised by a scrum at the point the 3rd kick landed.Thoughts?
so the team that did the 3rd (illegal kick) gets penalised by advancing 40 yards upfield - not really a punishment even if the opposition is getting the put-in?
Read my 1st line, the laws don’t need changing...
Bath relic ? Perhaps your old enough to remember your backline, Hill, Barnes, Guscott, DeGlanville, Webb... Matt Perry, Iain Balshaw... Halliday... all would be wasted under Eddie, he’d be fuming at them for passing, sidestepping, counter attacking...
Bath relic ? Perhaps your old enough to remember your backline, Hill, Barnes, Guscott, DeGlanville, Webb... Matt Perry, Iain Balshaw... Halliday... all would be wasted under Eddie, he’d be fuming at them for passing, sidestepping, counter attacking...
Balshaw? Hilarious. What a buffoon he was in an England shirt. I used to visibly cringe every time the ball went anywhere near him. Yet he was picked match after match. Another shining example of picking players that don't deserve to wear the shirt. The others you mention are absolutely spot on, all fantastic players in their day.
As a generalization Rugby union is infinitely more expansive and spectator friendly than pre-professionalism. The amount of kicking from England though, especially in opposition territory, is not only dire to watch but also a losing tactic - I am sure if it was NZ rather than SA that had put us to the sword in WC we'd be trying to mimic a get the ball to wings style gameplan right now.
There are two choices. reduce the number of players or just interpret the current laws correctly. Space is whats needed and there isn't any as long as the offside at the kick ahead etc is not controlled properly. Perhaps players should be behind the kicker at the point of impact, it rarely is. Backrows are breaking off early. When questioned referees want to see the ball moving, Where to?
You are spot on! The offside line being refereed properly is the key to opening up more space. Defending players are NEVER behind the back foot at rucks while the kick is routinely chased by players starting in front of the kicker. In addition the clock MUST stop for set piece scrums. So many collapse - it makes for painful viewing. Loathe to switch to RLeague but it's close.
Scrums that go on for ages with reset & reset with clock running, box kick after box kick, penalty takers with long routines, mauls that rules make it hard to defend, double and triple attached attackers bashing and bashing in the 25 to seek a score, knock ons by strong scrum sides favouring them, mayhem at the breakdown with clear out tactics, majority of players now built like tanks.
Change!!!
Change!!!
Got to agree, rather than waste energy trying to gain field position, kick it 60m, current use of subs can’t be right either, scrumming whilst clock continues, I think jackaling though an art form is unfair, the rule was meant to stop someone holding onto the ball waiting for support, now it’s an attacking part of the breakdown in attempt to get 3 points, change those and see how it looks ?????
Agree stop the clock at scrums until the ball comes out, reduce the time for kicks (conversions and penalties), start penalising teams for the slow ball at the ruck caterpillar - use it should be 3 seconds. Just needs a few tweaks to speed the game up. Too many teams like to slow play down be that international or domestic
I love rugby but it needs to be careful not to go the way of F1.
Too much kicking. Allow the catcher to mark from anywhere on the pitch?
Scrums take too long and the put in is so crooked.
Rest of it is great, so sort out those two issues.
Too much kicking. Allow the catcher to mark from anywhere on the pitch?
Scrums take too long and the put in is so crooked.
Rest of it is great, so sort out those two issues.
That takes me back. Playing as a fullback, I remember a time that you could only call for a mark inside your own 22 with both feet on the ground - making sure the chasing forwards didn’t clatter you in the process!
Allow marks anywhere, excellent idea. Also give the line out to the kicking team from a resulting kick to touch.
I'm afraid that Rugby has now joined Basketball as one of those sports that can only be played by abnormally proportioned people in the top tiers of their repective sports. That with ludicrous changes to the rules over the years makes rugby unwatchable for me now. I couldn't name a single player now. Back in the late 60s I could name most from England and Wales.
Really? Danny Care, Faf de Klerk, I could go on. Hardly "abnormally proportioned"
Rugby was slow and rather turgid in the 70s overall . Players jogged from one set piece to another on pitches of mud with the occasional flash of brilliance. There were 16 forwards pushing and shoving in uncoordinated heaps or it was kicked over the mud as backs couldn’t run through it . The top clubs played in parks and TV coverage was 1 hour of Herriots FP or Orrel highlights.Hardly a golden age
totally agree. Rugby has become American football. Size is all that matters
To make the game more interesting I would increase the size if the ball by half and see what happens then.
Or same size but increase the weight so you can't kick as far
To make England more interesting they should employ Scott Robertson and sack Skippy....
As Steve D has pointed out, it’s not the laws that need changing.... it’s a change of mentality....
As Steve D has pointed out, it’s not the laws that need changing.... it’s a change of mentality....
..or why not make it triangular and made of soap. Oh dear.
Rugby Union needs to stay on free to air television to keep everyone across the home nations watching.
Free to air? If you are referring to the BBC, they cost more per year than Amazon Prime.
Yep, lets go back to the good old days when the 5N were the only live rugby. When left to the BBC, coverage of club rugby meant 30 minutes of highlights on BBC2 on a Sunday evening.
Cant see the BBC showing all of the European games live, or showing 2 or 3 club games every week.
Cant see the BBC showing all of the European games live, or showing 2 or 3 club games every week.
To keep people interested and watching it needs to shown on terrestrial tv for all to see
Rugby fans watch the game - a massive minority compared to Football and those that want to watch and antiques auction.
The point is where you can see it doesn't change the product..
The point is where you can see it doesn't change the product..
I would be more than happy to watch live rugby on the BBC or ITV but they won’t pay for sport any one wants to watch. Women’s football or snooker is about your lot. As I said elsewhere rugby can’t survive without considerable financial support.
The Autumn Nations Cup matches are on Amazon Prime - which is terrestrial.
No-one is complaining France and NZ are boring or laws need changing for them. The Eng Wales game was always going to be tight, defensive orientated game. If Eng played say Aus then I would think game be a lot different.
I think we run risk of diluting what rugby union is if too many law changes made just to cater for "new" viewers/players. Enforce current laws properly and see.
I think we run risk of diluting what rugby union is if too many law changes made just to cater for "new" viewers/players. Enforce current laws properly and see.
Simply reduce the number of substitutions allowed to a max of 2. That would create more space as the game goes on. It also would discourage players from over bulking up as they know they’d need to run for 80mins and not 50/60 mins. Has the added advantage of probably reducing injuries as hits would not be as hard.
Yes but given nature of game and size/power of players highly likely to have injuries so could end up with 13 on one side which would be a farce.
You don't need red to change the number of subs. Just ban tactical substitutions and forwards will have to be aerobically for not just gym animals
Very interesting Matthew, I totally agree.
To speed up the game, reduce the number of scrums.
If a line out throw-in is not straight, have another line out but switch the throw in to the other team, do not have a scrum .
Also to increase spectator interest, bring back streakers. They should be compulsory at all internationals.
To speed up the game, reduce the number of scrums.
If a line out throw-in is not straight, have another line out but switch the throw in to the other team, do not have a scrum .
Also to increase spectator interest, bring back streakers. They should be compulsory at all internationals.
Great idea about giving the opposition a line out when not straight, to avoid another scrum.
On the second point, I’m old enough to remember Erica Roe. Also a great idea.
On the second point, I’m old enough to remember Erica Roe. Also a great idea.
Too much Recovery time in the game means heavier players and less space develops and so less off-loads as players are closer and more prepared. Reduce Times everywhere to: 30 seconds for a kick. 30 seconds fro a line out. 30 seconds for a scrum set, 30 seconds in a maul. Stop clock for all of these except maul too to prevent time-wasting.
I think you’re more or less describing Rugby League, apart from the streakers!
Like the line out idea. We need to develop the Simmonds bothers, Dombrandt and Marcus Smith; they are all good runners with good hands
Now you're reminding me of Erika Roe - now that was a proper set piece :-)
As long as the streaker has a chest the size of Bill Beaumonts backside.
Watch league. The scrum is one of the core components of rugby union.
Maybe award a free kick to the other side. Getting the throw 5 meters from your own line isn't always an advantage. Free kick men's they could clear their lines. Would also ensure that sides actually try to throw it straight.
Please do not make the game more like Rugby League. League is decent but compared to Union it is one-dimensional.I am no aficionado of the game but surely there is a place for the more esoteric of pastimes! Or is it all about money again?
Why have the slow process for safety reasons when engaging in the scrum.. Yet allow the flankers to break bind and bore in on props, yet to see anyone penalised for this, should be a yellow for endangering the safety of the prop.
Reduce replacements to three so that props have to play the entire game (as they should) & their size will reduce and so scrums will become much safer. Then have the feed down the middle so it's competitive. Ban lifting as its dangerous & makes line-outs uncompetitive. Allow proper mauling again so that forwards are not standing in a line waiting to tackle.
With League you know you are going to get a kick from 4th to 6th play and depending where the ball is on the pitch determines the type of kick - it's rarely a kick for the sake of kicking.
Fr were kicking and waiting for It's to make a mistake. Its a function of defence being favorised when the intention is to do the opposite!
League are the experts of offload, union priority protect ball...
Fr were kicking and waiting for It's to make a mistake. Its a function of defence being favorised when the intention is to do the opposite!
League are the experts of offload, union priority protect ball...
Woodward said in the Daily Mail that we will be facing a full strength France but Dawson says different. Does anyone have any idea??
I think Woodward thinks the french may ‘tweak’ their player rules... I hope they do
I did for a while, even went to some games but I found it all pretty much one-paced: run, tackle, run, tackle, run, tackle, run, tackle, run, tackle, kick. I like Union for its variety in pace and scenarios but England's constant ruck-pass-kick is now entering what I see as the repetitiveness of League.
Simply reduce the number of substitutions allowed to a max of 2. That would create more space as the game goes on. It also would discourage players from over bulking up as they know they’d need to run for 80mins and not 50/60 mins. Has the added advantage of probably reducing injuries as hits would not be as hard.
When you hear John Barclay state “I’m 33 and broken” then you know somethings wrong. In his opinion players now will be lucky to reach 30 before they too will be broken.
Something has to change. We need to discourage the emphasis on gym work that is sadly so prevalent in the game. Too many subs facilitates bulking up.
Something has to change. We need to discourage the emphasis on gym work that is sadly so prevalent in the game. Too many subs facilitates bulking up.
I do not enjoy watching rugby now. The odd moment of brilliance does not balance the rest of the game. Another point I would raise is club rugby. Am I the only one who is baffled by the structure of competitions? Also I often have little idea of which team I am watching as I have no idea of the silly names that now abound.
The most boring thing is all that handshaking at the start nonsense.
Whilst I greatly admire Princess Anne, it would be more fun if she was on a moped, quickly drove down the line giving high 5 to each of the players.
Whilst I greatly admire Princess Anne, it would be more fun if she was on a moped, quickly drove down the line giving high 5 to each of the players.
I say dont mess with the rules, look whats happened with footy and var game is not spectator friendly anymore.
But they did mess with them, which is why it's so dull. The maul, ruck, line-out & scrum rules have all been changed . So now the only way to gain territory is to kick, either a bomb or for touch from a penalty. Everything else is just 13 attackers against 15 in defence, phase after phase going nowhere.
I think Rugby's biggest danger is that the sport will be put behind a paywall, especially the 6N. Just need to look at Cricket, the ECB got greedy and they are now paying the price with huge drop in numbers playing sport.
I agree as well with MD that they need to make the sport more enjoyable to watch with more emphasis on passing and running rather than kicking it up and down for possession.
I agree as well with MD that they need to make the sport more enjoyable to watch with more emphasis on passing and running rather than kicking it up and down for possession.
Had you watched last Friday's Grand Final, you might become a convert. Non-stop action & excellent use of VAR.
I can't stand players strolling up to line outs & ten-minute scrums. Sorry.
I can't stand players strolling up to line outs & ten-minute scrums. Sorry.
Matt is totally right. Interesting comment by Sam Warburton on the Wales England game. He said scrum is not a mechanism for a restart, but "a means of gaining a penalty to move the ball upfield 40 yards". If that is the case, no wonder we have so much time wasted at scrum time. My suggestion would be a limited number of resets before the ref says it's an uncontested scrum.
I do not enjoy watching rugby now. The odd moment of brilliance does not balance the rest of the game. Another point I would raise is club rugby. Am I the only one who is baffled by the structure of competitions? Also I often have little idea of which team I am watching as I have no idea of the silly names that now abound.
Stop tinkering with the laws of the game in an effort to attract the casual fan who wants instant excitement and can't be bothered to learn the nuances of the game. I follow most team sports and it seems to be the same obsession in all off them, change the rules to give undue advantage to the attacking team so that more goals, points, runs are scored, so that allegedly, more fans will be attracted
To "keep the kids watching" you need first to keep the internationals on TV. Why wasn't yesterday's Wales v England match on the BBC or ITV, or even on Sky?
Previously, the RFU kept rugby in the public glare by ensuring that internationals were on free to view TV. Golf and cricket have suffered declining participation after going behind a paywall. Is rugby union now to go down the same road?
Previously, the RFU kept rugby in the public glare by ensuring that internationals were on free to view TV. Golf and cricket have suffered declining participation after going behind a paywall. Is rugby union now to go down the same road?
People who complain about sport not being on the BBC also whinge about the cost of the licence. Can’t have it both ways . The BBC cannot complete with Sky etc and we are in a different media age where people access sport in different ways . BBC cannot pay £2B for football unless it also moves to a pay per view model. That would mean paying more . Howls of protest all round !
The Saints v Quins game was full of exciting running rugby. An outstanding performance by Marcus Smith. You don’t need law changes.
The Autumn internationals have been dreadfully full. The changes to the laws are making the game less free flowing and more turgid. Something does need to be done to encourage more flair, more elan or basically what the french seem to be trying
Yes and no. Somehow the AB's can play running rugby in the winter so it can't just be about seasons. But agree harder pitches to encourage more free flowing rugby would be better
The problem for youngsters now is finding where to watch it on tv! Too many games on sky, bt and now Amazon! Multiple subscriptions needed!
This is an important point and is the same with many sports. The Open no longer being on the BBC, almost zero top tier football despite internationals which are often friendlies or low quality and the list goes on.
Cut out the mark, it kills momentum of the game and wastes time.
End the advantage rule after the gain line has been crossed... there was one two years ago which lasted nearly 90 seconds and multiple times the team had crossed the gain line.
End the advantage rule after the gain line has been crossed... there was one two years ago which lasted nearly 90 seconds and multiple times the team had crossed the gain line.
One of the problems of the breakdown is that the supporting players are often hampered by the tacklers and not necessarily deliberately. The ball carrier falls into the 'jackals' arms who always has a split second to attach before the support arrives to drive him off! By then it's too late and he generally wins a penalty.
The time the attacker is allowed to 'hold on' is critical...
The time the attacker is allowed to 'hold on' is critical...
Great interest and constructive comments from contributors. Only shows how people care about this game. Clever coaching nullifies most laws when changes are made.
The current breakdown situation must have been with us 10 years or so. Never got my head around ‘ supporting your own body weight’, when you are allowed to lean on or lean over other players. Otherwise players would fall over.
The current breakdown situation must have been with us 10 years or so. Never got my head around ‘ supporting your own body weight’, when you are allowed to lean on or lean over other players. Otherwise players would fall over.
Dawson why do we have a product that "everyone across the world wants to watch?" Face it, rugby won't expand beyond its current interest. Sport is too set in stone within each country's culture. You're never going to get the likes of Brazil, China and India for example taking it seriously. Accept that it has it's place. Rugby's main problem is players are fitter but the pitches aren't bigger
Rugby Union needs to stay on free to air television to keep everyone across the home nations watching.
There's no space because forwards are not committed to breakdowns & too many replacements means they don't get tired. Breaks get punished because there's no maul anymore. Compared to the 1980s, we have no mauls except from 5m, no competitive lineouts because of lifting, no competitive scrums because of feeding & no competitive rucks because you can't compete except for a brief second. Rugby League