AI 'doctor's assistant' among projects given £20m
27/11/2020 | news | science | 97
The UK government awards £20m to 15 artificial intelligence research projects.
1
27/11/2020 13:08:18 1 1
bbc
There's a lot of people who need it installed in their heads ASAP
2
27/11/2020 13:15:58 3 5
bbc
So me and my colleagues get pay freezes. MP's get an 11% pay rise then a short while later £10k to work from home, then another £3k payrise. While giving £100bn to a rail service that will benefit 200 members of the 68million population, and they give £20m to tech firms developing AI.... That money they're giving away is MY money, MY taxes....
3
27/11/2020 13:53:01 8 0
bbc
You need to become mates with a Conservative MP, then they'll give you all the money you like.
47
27/11/2020 20:33:47 0 0
bbc
You’ve paid a lot of tax.
2
27/11/2020 13:15:58 3 5
bbc
So me and my colleagues get pay freezes. MP's get an 11% pay rise then a short while later £10k to work from home, then another £3k payrise. While giving £100bn to a rail service that will benefit 200 members of the 68million population, and they give £20m to tech firms developing AI.... That money they're giving away is MY money, MY taxes....
3
27/11/2020 13:53:01 8 0
bbc
You need to become mates with a Conservative MP, then they'll give you all the money you like.
4
27/11/2020 13:55:41 1 12
bbc
Sorry, I don't want to be diagnosed or treated by an artificial idiot.
5
27/11/2020 14:01:39 3 7
bbc
I agree. There's enough emotionally bereft robotic consultants within the NHS already!
6
27/11/2020 14:04:27 3 0
bbc
Helps doctors. Helps patients. What's not to like?
14
27/11/2020 14:26:33 0 1
bbc
the correct way of doing it: it's not either or, it's both methods contributing to the outcome

of course that never happens. Boris Han-atel Cum-unak will say

THIS IS THE MAGIC BULLET THAT WE ARE GIVING RANDOX £500 million towards. and laying off 1,000 GP's.

I forgot to put "towards" in caps there didn't I.
32
27/11/2020 16:43:32 0 0
bbc
Must resist obvious straight line...
4
27/11/2020 13:55:41 1 12
bbc
Sorry, I don't want to be diagnosed or treated by an artificial idiot.
5
27/11/2020 14:01:39 3 7
bbc
I agree. There's enough emotionally bereft robotic consultants within the NHS already!
7
27/11/2020 14:08:49 3 0
bbc
Before being so blasé, look up clinical empathy. Imagine what it would do to the average human being, faced with making life altering and sometimes life limiting decisions day after day, if they were to get emotionally attached to their patients. They'd all end up gibbering wrecks.
4
27/11/2020 13:55:41 1 12
bbc
Sorry, I don't want to be diagnosed or treated by an artificial idiot.
6
27/11/2020 14:04:27 3 0
bbc
Helps doctors. Helps patients. What's not to like?
5
27/11/2020 14:01:39 3 7
bbc
I agree. There's enough emotionally bereft robotic consultants within the NHS already!
7
27/11/2020 14:08:49 3 0
bbc
Before being so blasé, look up clinical empathy. Imagine what it would do to the average human being, faced with making life altering and sometimes life limiting decisions day after day, if they were to get emotionally attached to their patients. They'd all end up gibbering wrecks.
15
27/11/2020 14:28:13 1 2
bbc
you have to think of AI, as being the medical equivalent of "press 1 for sales, press 2 for support, if your call is in regards to work done by Serco, press 3"
41
27/11/2020 19:06:46 1 0
bbc
My neighbour was shocked that his heart surgeon was so calm as he went into surgery - till she asked if he would like her to be as stressed as he was!
8
27/11/2020 14:07:12 9 2
bbc
Once again the government shows how completely illiterate it is with regard to science and technology. It's now years since IBM produced a system that's vastly better at diagnosis than most doctors. So this is an extremely promising area that merits vastly more than £20m.

Of course, it's doubtful that even this amount will be allocated wisely.
16
27/11/2020 14:43:02 7 2
bbc
Any links to this incredible system that has never been implemented? Maybe there's a reason why it didn't/wouldn't work?
9
27/11/2020 14:11:59 5 2
bbc
Helps doctors. Helps patients. What's not to like?
43
27/11/2020 19:27:02 0 2
bbc
lots Remember the 737 max...
10
27/11/2020 14:15:49 10 0
bbc
Many diagnostic tasks (reading smear tests or mammograms, for example) are simple, repetitious and rule-bound. IT can be taught to do them better than people (who get bored). The doctor can then confirm and tell the patient the outcome. It's already happening for some tests.
67
28/11/2020 05:42:05 1 2
bbc
Just make sure incompetent ukgov isn't involved in testing or standards.
How did Grenfell come about? Flammable cladding is on over 250 hi rise UK wide. That's not one council or builders fault.. That's hundreds.
An automated system should be easy to test.. Every day send a known fail, positive and borderline pass or fail through the system.
11
27/11/2020 14:16:05 2 3
bbc
What has not been mentioned and is badly needed is the detection of the effects of drug interaction.
13
27/11/2020 14:20:53 1 3
bbc
Big data would really have helped with this, but has been badly stymied by OTT privacy concerns.

Most people are clueless about just how much we could learn if everyone's medical records were available for data crunching.
12
27/11/2020 14:22:00 11 2
bbc
£20 million

half a napkin for HS/2?
70
28/11/2020 05:53:32 2 0
bbc
Yes weird.. And bjs covid fails mean huge covid debt and austerity / tax rises for decades to come.
If people will be wfh in future would seem to make more sense to spend £10 billion on mobile & cable.
Even if hs2 goes ahead to scale back construction time.
11
27/11/2020 14:16:05 2 3
bbc
What has not been mentioned and is badly needed is the detection of the effects of drug interaction.
13
27/11/2020 14:20:53 1 3
bbc
Big data would really have helped with this, but has been badly stymied by OTT privacy concerns.

Most people are clueless about just how much we could learn if everyone's medical records were available for data crunching.
19
27/11/2020 14:47:48 2 1
bbc
I'm not sure if this is relevant to your concerns but anyway it loks like we have to opt out of our records being used for other purposes? https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/about-the-nhs/sharing-your-health-records/
20
27/11/2020 15:06:20 3 0
bbc
I think that anonymised medical records are already being used. Read a report quite recently.
4
27/11/2020 13:55:41 1 12
bbc
Sorry, I don't want to be diagnosed or treated by an artificial idiot.
14
27/11/2020 14:26:33 0 1
bbc
the correct way of doing it: it's not either or, it's both methods contributing to the outcome

of course that never happens. Boris Han-atel Cum-unak will say

THIS IS THE MAGIC BULLET THAT WE ARE GIVING RANDOX £500 million towards. and laying off 1,000 GP's.

I forgot to put "towards" in caps there didn't I.
7
27/11/2020 14:08:49 3 0
bbc
Before being so blasé, look up clinical empathy. Imagine what it would do to the average human being, faced with making life altering and sometimes life limiting decisions day after day, if they were to get emotionally attached to their patients. They'd all end up gibbering wrecks.
15
27/11/2020 14:28:13 1 2
bbc
you have to think of AI, as being the medical equivalent of "press 1 for sales, press 2 for support, if your call is in regards to work done by Serco, press 3"
29
27/11/2020 16:17:00 3 0
bbc
No, you really don't. You might think that, but that's not my problem.
8
27/11/2020 14:07:12 9 2
bbc
Once again the government shows how completely illiterate it is with regard to science and technology. It's now years since IBM produced a system that's vastly better at diagnosis than most doctors. So this is an extremely promising area that merits vastly more than £20m.

Of course, it's doubtful that even this amount will be allocated wisely.
16
27/11/2020 14:43:02 7 2
bbc
Any links to this incredible system that has never been implemented? Maybe there's a reason why it didn't/wouldn't work?
68
28/11/2020 05:46:12 0 0
bbc
It's not disbelievable. Medics have written emergency medical care books before for expeditions, travellers.
Here's one that's just a chatbot

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/technology-44635134
17
27/11/2020 14:43:23 1 0
bbc
It doesn't say who's mate?
18
27/11/2020 14:44:36 2 2
bbc
Good news, pump priming, the real investment will flood in when the Unis work out the teething issues
13
27/11/2020 14:20:53 1 3
bbc
Big data would really have helped with this, but has been badly stymied by OTT privacy concerns.

Most people are clueless about just how much we could learn if everyone's medical records were available for data crunching.
19
27/11/2020 14:47:48 2 1
bbc
I'm not sure if this is relevant to your concerns but anyway it loks like we have to opt out of our records being used for other purposes? https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/about-the-nhs/sharing-your-health-records/
13
27/11/2020 14:20:53 1 3
bbc
Big data would really have helped with this, but has been badly stymied by OTT privacy concerns.

Most people are clueless about just how much we could learn if everyone's medical records were available for data crunching.
20
27/11/2020 15:06:20 3 0
bbc
I think that anonymised medical records are already being used. Read a report quite recently.
21
27/11/2020 15:11:43 11 2
bbc
It's often what patients don't say or don't divulge that tells a Dr the most

This needs face to face interaction at a personal level

There is a lot to be said for AI, one hell of a lot. However, I'm currently fighting one hell of a battle with poor mental health after years and years of ignoring what needed to be addressed until almost too late

It's no exaggeration to say my GP saved my life
38
27/11/2020 18:51:46 0 4
bbc
I doubt anyone thinks that AI will ever replace your doctor, except for the routine, rule-based enquiries. At least, if it does, it is far enough in the distance for you and I not to have to worry!
61
28/11/2020 04:18:42 0 0
bbc
Doctors are busy. Doctors are rushed. Doctors have trouble keeping up with the latest medical science and the latest drugs. Doctors even forget what they once learned. Doctors are fooled by patients & make subjective judgements.
Doctors make mistakes.
Potentially, AI can do much better.
Might cost more than £20m though.
66
28/11/2020 05:38:18 0 0
bbc
But could be a place for minor issues.
Could save GP time by having taken base questions, history and possible diagnosis.
Also NHS way, way behind on logging data.. From personal devices, from a diary type app.
All of the above, NHS single level health system and AI could form basis of better health monitoring, new discoveries, better health.
22
27/11/2020 15:18:58 4 2
bbc
AI is useful in the right application, such as medicine, I agree (of course), but what worries me is that there are many other possible applications that are not mentioned because they are not so good. Warfare for one, population manipulation for another.
The possible nefarious applications for AI are endless.
31
27/11/2020 16:18:20 2 1
bbc
By "population manipulation" you mean the current state of the art in advertising?
23
27/11/2020 15:20:08 4 1
bbc
First step towards the holographic doctor in Star Trek Voyager. LOL
28
27/11/2020 16:12:14 0 1
bbc
Wow, now there's an argument for "artificially intelligent" bedside manners!
24
27/11/2020 15:23:24 6 1
bbc
If the health service can benefit from much better use of AI, then what is not to like.

The £20m cost is a drop in the ocean compared to the total health budget of £100bn.

Covid has taught us that there are other way to get things done.
25
27/11/2020 15:41:04 4 4
bbc
£20 million is a drop in the ocean compared to the increase in wealth of UK billionnaires during this pandemic.
26
27/11/2020 15:47:16 1 3
bbc
I never knew MIT's Media Lab was part of the UK, Ms Solloway!

Systems will be intelligent when they can derive and communicate rules based on half a dozen wild examples, the same way animals do, not make an unacountable guess based on several million curated examples.
27
27/11/2020 15:43:49 3 0
bbc
and there we have it. The final blow.
Since government by AI is now a thing, can we just remove the pretence that politicians know what they are doing.
39
27/11/2020 18:56:04 1 0
bbc
AI works where the decision si based on a simple rule. Cells which look like this are cancerous. Cells which look like that, are benign.
Politics is a bit messier than that!
23
27/11/2020 15:20:08 4 1
bbc
First step towards the holographic doctor in Star Trek Voyager. LOL
28
27/11/2020 16:12:14 0 1
bbc
Wow, now there's an argument for "artificially intelligent" bedside manners!
15
27/11/2020 14:28:13 1 2
bbc
you have to think of AI, as being the medical equivalent of "press 1 for sales, press 2 for support, if your call is in regards to work done by Serco, press 3"
29
27/11/2020 16:17:00 3 0
bbc
No, you really don't. You might think that, but that's not my problem.
30
27/11/2020 16:17:23 20 0
bbc
Absolute peanuts. The government needs to invest much more in R&D. It has been so low down on the agenda for both Labour and the Conservatives because hardly anyone from STEM backgrounds go into politics
35
27/11/2020 18:03:54 9 1
bbc
Completely agree. £100M up needs to be invested. Living on the idea that we invented AI is such drivel.
53
27/11/2020 21:24:41 1 2
bbc
Totally agree. Forget road building (and HS2). We should 'go big' on AI, plsu technologies such as self-driving vehicles.
65
28/11/2020 05:34:21 0 2
bbc
My thought too.
UK gov manages to spend every year
£12 billion foreign aid
£35 billion Mod.
With nothing to show for it.

Elon musk and spacex had $1 billion initial funding.

So how is ukgov efficient with money?
22
27/11/2020 15:18:58 4 2
bbc
AI is useful in the right application, such as medicine, I agree (of course), but what worries me is that there are many other possible applications that are not mentioned because they are not so good. Warfare for one, population manipulation for another.
The possible nefarious applications for AI are endless.
31
27/11/2020 16:18:20 2 1
bbc
By "population manipulation" you mean the current state of the art in advertising?
46
27/11/2020 19:54:50 0 0
bbc
Yes, and campaigns like 'stop eating meat' eat vegans' etc.
4
27/11/2020 13:55:41 1 12
bbc
Sorry, I don't want to be diagnosed or treated by an artificial idiot.
32
27/11/2020 16:43:32 0 0
bbc
Must resist obvious straight line...
33
27/11/2020 16:55:19 23 0
bbc
Does anyone think that replacing the Government & MP’s with AI might be worth a try?
It’s hard to imagine that it could be any worse than the current shambles we have.
All joking aside that's probably the best thing we could do, apply some sort of veto actual ppl can put in, like say an election after 5 years. I'd be at least willing to read skynets manifesto :)
64
28/11/2020 05:31:40 2 1
bbc
Plus replace fptp with some form of PR so that more opinions and policies are heard. Not just lab / con flavour of the month or PM.
In an Internet age and Web.. Where's eVoting, surveying, Q&A for MPs etc online by public?.
Brexit has proved MPs aren't in touch with constituent views. Fptp means only 44% UK voters voted for Bj. Only 37% voted for Camoron.
34
27/11/2020 18:00:24 5 1
bbc
A Nurse told me recently "GPs need to be really careful with being too happy about remote consultations, because their job is vulnerable to being replaced by AI".

Dead on the ball.

COVID has seen a lot of GPs performing a triaging task, acting as middle men for the specialist units. Give that much of the time they were consulting a computer system, they've become a very expensive in-betweener.
37
27/11/2020 18:48:17 1 2
bbc
The decision will not be taken on the basis of whether it preserves or destroys GP jobs - at least, it should not be. But 'Does it work', or perhaps, 'does it work efficiently'?
Routine diagnosis is oten based on rules which AI can learn and perform better than people (who get bored). But questioning the patient and deciding what to do NOW is likely to remain a task for humans.
30
27/11/2020 16:17:23 20 0
bbc
Absolute peanuts. The government needs to invest much more in R&D. It has been so low down on the agenda for both Labour and the Conservatives because hardly anyone from STEM backgrounds go into politics
35
27/11/2020 18:03:54 9 1
bbc
Completely agree. £100M up needs to be invested. Living on the idea that we invented AI is such drivel.
36
27/11/2020 18:13:49 2 1
bbc
"I don’t think there is any question about it. It can only be attributable to human error. This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error." ....Bowman: "Open the pod bay doors " HAL 9000: I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that. I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.I`ll be back !
74
28/11/2020 06:03:59 0 0
bbc
So AI is late then?
It's 2021 (almost) not 2001.
34
27/11/2020 18:00:24 5 1
bbc
A Nurse told me recently "GPs need to be really careful with being too happy about remote consultations, because their job is vulnerable to being replaced by AI".

Dead on the ball.

COVID has seen a lot of GPs performing a triaging task, acting as middle men for the specialist units. Give that much of the time they were consulting a computer system, they've become a very expensive in-betweener.
37
27/11/2020 18:48:17 1 2
bbc
The decision will not be taken on the basis of whether it preserves or destroys GP jobs - at least, it should not be. But 'Does it work', or perhaps, 'does it work efficiently'?
Routine diagnosis is oten based on rules which AI can learn and perform better than people (who get bored). But questioning the patient and deciding what to do NOW is likely to remain a task for humans.
21
27/11/2020 15:11:43 11 2
bbc
It's often what patients don't say or don't divulge that tells a Dr the most

This needs face to face interaction at a personal level

There is a lot to be said for AI, one hell of a lot. However, I'm currently fighting one hell of a battle with poor mental health after years and years of ignoring what needed to be addressed until almost too late

It's no exaggeration to say my GP saved my life
38
27/11/2020 18:51:46 0 4
bbc
I doubt anyone thinks that AI will ever replace your doctor, except for the routine, rule-based enquiries. At least, if it does, it is far enough in the distance for you and I not to have to worry!
62
28/11/2020 04:26:01 0 0
bbc
AI will simply carry out a far more thorough examination in far less time
and then compare the results with a massive database of case histories.
But it will also learn. The more patients it examines and correctly diagnoses, the better its ability to assess the measured symptoms in future.
And it will make faultless recommendations on the latest treatment - that doctors don't always get right.
27
27/11/2020 15:43:49 3 0
bbc
and there we have it. The final blow.
Since government by AI is now a thing, can we just remove the pretence that politicians know what they are doing.
39
27/11/2020 18:56:04 1 0
bbc
AI works where the decision si based on a simple rule. Cells which look like this are cancerous. Cells which look like that, are benign.
Politics is a bit messier than that!
69
28/11/2020 05:51:06 0 0
bbc
Politics might be messy but current ukgov system surely has holes in fairness, representation etc.

Fptp? Bj only got 44% of UK votes to claim 80 seat majority & 100% power. How is that fair?
Camoron election got 37%, when lab got 30% & ukip 12%.
Its 21st century.. Where are moves over PR, eVoting, surveying, referenda etc by councils, MPs?
Brexit itself proved that MPs are clueless of ukpublic.
40
27/11/2020 19:05:02 5 1
bbc
When you go to your GP about a wart that's appeared on your hand, a good GP will be looking at the rest of you whilst treating the wart. I doubt AI would notice that you were a bit down in the dumps today and so think to ask why. Many things are diagnosed - warts and all. Sorry!
42
27/11/2020 19:20:10 1 4
bbc
Sorry but this is just the sort of rule that AI would excel at.
And lots more people can have the initial, virtual involvment, those who need it are referred on to the 'human' level.
71
28/11/2020 05:57:06 1 0
bbc
Currently Gp s offering phone consultations. They can't see rest of patient.
In recent news was bmj?(?) complaining GP's didn't have enough time with patients.
The times lve see gp they have never offered opinion or interest on any other issue, in fact they try to keep to one issue per 3 min appointment.
7
27/11/2020 14:08:49 3 0
bbc
Before being so blasé, look up clinical empathy. Imagine what it would do to the average human being, faced with making life altering and sometimes life limiting decisions day after day, if they were to get emotionally attached to their patients. They'd all end up gibbering wrecks.
41
27/11/2020 19:06:46 1 0
bbc
My neighbour was shocked that his heart surgeon was so calm as he went into surgery - till she asked if he would like her to be as stressed as he was!
40
27/11/2020 19:05:02 5 1
bbc
When you go to your GP about a wart that's appeared on your hand, a good GP will be looking at the rest of you whilst treating the wart. I doubt AI would notice that you were a bit down in the dumps today and so think to ask why. Many things are diagnosed - warts and all. Sorry!
42
27/11/2020 19:20:10 1 4
bbc
Sorry but this is just the sort of rule that AI would excel at.
And lots more people can have the initial, virtual involvment, those who need it are referred on to the 'human' level.
9
27/11/2020 14:11:59 5 2
bbc
Helps doctors. Helps patients. What's not to like?
43
27/11/2020 19:27:02 0 2
bbc
lots Remember the 737 max...
58
28/11/2020 01:13:15 0 0
bbc
The fact that you would say that suggests you've neither read this article, nor understand what the issue with the 737 max was. This system would be to diagnose, not treat, advising doctors who have the final say.

The 737 MCAS issue was a hidden system that the pilots neither knew about nor could they override it.
44
27/11/2020 19:31:40 3 2
bbc
Such systems can replace GPs, Doctors, only passing along the few non standard patients. What with robotic surgery, ai better at checking scans, the whole area of knowledge jobs can be replaced as were making jobs. By better machines.

Before you know it you will, wake up with a cough, Alexa will have listened to you coughing in your sleep, analysed your breath, pills arrive for breakfast.
73
28/11/2020 06:02:50 1 1
bbc
As you say AI could improve things.
Personalised medicine.
AI available 24/7.. Outside of office hours, bankholidays.
AI could also improve medicine.. There is more opportunity to collect medical data via sensors, logs etc (hopefully securely from amazon and Co).. Combined with NHS data set (again securely) could lead to new medical discoveries, insights, issues.
84
28/11/2020 13:28:11 0 0
bbc
And no doubt Amazon will make millions from the sale of many unnecessary pharmaceuticals.
33
27/11/2020 16:55:19 23 0
bbc
Does anyone think that replacing the Government & MP’s with AI might be worth a try?
It’s hard to imagine that it could be any worse than the current shambles we have.
45
27/11/2020 19:33:55 2 1
bbc
All joking aside that's probably the best thing we could do, apply some sort of veto actual ppl can put in, like say an election after 5 years. I'd be at least willing to read skynets manifesto :)
31
27/11/2020 16:18:20 2 1
bbc
By "population manipulation" you mean the current state of the art in advertising?
46
27/11/2020 19:54:50 0 0
bbc
Yes, and campaigns like 'stop eating meat' eat vegans' etc.
2
27/11/2020 13:15:58 3 5
bbc
So me and my colleagues get pay freezes. MP's get an 11% pay rise then a short while later £10k to work from home, then another £3k payrise. While giving £100bn to a rail service that will benefit 200 members of the 68million population, and they give £20m to tech firms developing AI.... That money they're giving away is MY money, MY taxes....
47
27/11/2020 20:33:47 0 0
bbc
You’ve paid a lot of tax.
48
27/11/2020 20:34:33 2 0
bbc
Totally agree with lm1950. £20m to transform how people live, work and communicate, cementing the UK's status as a world leader in AI and data. The problem is - if you pay peanuts...
49
27/11/2020 20:43:28 2 0
bbc
Please see the pilot movie of Max Headroom!
50
27/11/2020 21:03:02 2 1
bbc
I thought the government outsourced all kinds of intelligence years ago.
51
27/11/2020 21:10:19 6 5
bbc
£53.5 million of tax payers money was squandered on a doomed ridiculous garden bridge.

£20 m on helping doctors advance medical treatment is so sensible that it must hurt Bojo's head to think about it.
52
27/11/2020 21:22:02 1 3
bbc
its only repeated learning and algorithms not intelligence they will never think for themselves
30
27/11/2020 16:17:23 20 0
bbc
Absolute peanuts. The government needs to invest much more in R&D. It has been so low down on the agenda for both Labour and the Conservatives because hardly anyone from STEM backgrounds go into politics
53
27/11/2020 21:24:41 1 2
bbc
Totally agree. Forget road building (and HS2). We should 'go big' on AI, plsu technologies such as self-driving vehicles.
54
27/11/2020 22:01:40 10 1
bbc
Anything that assists with, and leads to a faster and more accurate diagnosis , coupled with a tailored, targeted treatment plan has got to be a good thing.
55
27/11/2020 22:03:49 3 1
bbc
ai, as we know it today, is based on collecting masses of data and using that data. guess the source of the data? yes you, me, all of us. surely we should be asking what the boundaries are before we get on board.
56
27/11/2020 22:34:14 2 1
bbc
Long time ago Nikola Tesla said that one day machines would discourse with us.
57
28/11/2020 01:06:19 4 0
bbc
Already in use. There was/is a language/medical learning chatbot (dressed up with smiley face) in Alder hey for children to talk to and it found out what really concerned children who asked it questions they never would of a doctor, and the most common was 'Am I going to die'. Diagnosing AI will replace medical doctors which otherwise are limited by their depth of knowledge . Robots 4 surgery
72
28/11/2020 05:58:40 2 0
bbc
Plus AI could be available 24/7 including out of office hours, weekends and Bank Holidays.
43
27/11/2020 19:27:02 0 2
bbc
lots Remember the 737 max...
58
28/11/2020 01:13:15 0 0
bbc
The fact that you would say that suggests you've neither read this article, nor understand what the issue with the 737 max was. This system would be to diagnose, not treat, advising doctors who have the final say.

The 737 MCAS issue was a hidden system that the pilots neither knew about nor could they override it.
59
28/11/2020 03:23:57 0 2
bbc
I think this says all that needs to be said

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXzJR7K0wK0
60
28/11/2020 04:07:05 6 0
bbc
Doctors have long been one of the professions most likely to be replaced by AI.
Visits to a GP typically result in a superficial examination, prescribing of a harmless medicine and instruction to come back if symptoms get worse. In a 10 minute appointment it's the best you can hope for.
Potentially, AI could run a battery of dozens of metrics/tests in the same time and make an accurate diagnosis.
21
27/11/2020 15:11:43 11 2
bbc
It's often what patients don't say or don't divulge that tells a Dr the most

This needs face to face interaction at a personal level

There is a lot to be said for AI, one hell of a lot. However, I'm currently fighting one hell of a battle with poor mental health after years and years of ignoring what needed to be addressed until almost too late

It's no exaggeration to say my GP saved my life
61
28/11/2020 04:18:42 0 0
bbc
Doctors are busy. Doctors are rushed. Doctors have trouble keeping up with the latest medical science and the latest drugs. Doctors even forget what they once learned. Doctors are fooled by patients & make subjective judgements.
Doctors make mistakes.
Potentially, AI can do much better.
Might cost more than £20m though.
38
27/11/2020 18:51:46 0 4
bbc
I doubt anyone thinks that AI will ever replace your doctor, except for the routine, rule-based enquiries. At least, if it does, it is far enough in the distance for you and I not to have to worry!
62
28/11/2020 04:26:01 0 0
bbc
AI will simply carry out a far more thorough examination in far less time
and then compare the results with a massive database of case histories.
But it will also learn. The more patients it examines and correctly diagnoses, the better its ability to assess the measured symptoms in future.
And it will make faultless recommendations on the latest treatment - that doctors don't always get right.
63
28/11/2020 04:33:39 3 0
bbc
The problem is that a machine capable of running multiple tests and measurements and then analysing the results and recommending treatment will cost a small fortune. It will require a technician to run it.
And then the BMA will insist that a doctor is present too.
So each appointment will cost 5 times as much as now.
And waiting lists will be even longer.
33
27/11/2020 16:55:19 23 0
bbc
Does anyone think that replacing the Government & MP’s with AI might be worth a try?
It’s hard to imagine that it could be any worse than the current shambles we have.
64
28/11/2020 05:31:40 2 1
bbc
Plus replace fptp with some form of PR so that more opinions and policies are heard. Not just lab / con flavour of the month or PM.
In an Internet age and Web.. Where's eVoting, surveying, Q&A for MPs etc online by public?.
Brexit has proved MPs aren't in touch with constituent views. Fptp means only 44% UK voters voted for Bj. Only 37% voted for Camoron.
30
27/11/2020 16:17:23 20 0
bbc
Absolute peanuts. The government needs to invest much more in R&D. It has been so low down on the agenda for both Labour and the Conservatives because hardly anyone from STEM backgrounds go into politics
65
28/11/2020 05:34:21 0 2
bbc
My thought too.
UK gov manages to spend every year
£12 billion foreign aid
£35 billion Mod.
With nothing to show for it.

Elon musk and spacex had $1 billion initial funding.

So how is ukgov efficient with money?
89
28/11/2020 14:44:50 1 0
bbc
UK PLC does very well out of Foreign Aid... "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours!".
21
27/11/2020 15:11:43 11 2
bbc
It's often what patients don't say or don't divulge that tells a Dr the most

This needs face to face interaction at a personal level

There is a lot to be said for AI, one hell of a lot. However, I'm currently fighting one hell of a battle with poor mental health after years and years of ignoring what needed to be addressed until almost too late

It's no exaggeration to say my GP saved my life
66
28/11/2020 05:38:18 0 0
bbc
But could be a place for minor issues.
Could save GP time by having taken base questions, history and possible diagnosis.
Also NHS way, way behind on logging data.. From personal devices, from a diary type app.
All of the above, NHS single level health system and AI could form basis of better health monitoring, new discoveries, better health.
10
27/11/2020 14:15:49 10 0
bbc
Many diagnostic tasks (reading smear tests or mammograms, for example) are simple, repetitious and rule-bound. IT can be taught to do them better than people (who get bored). The doctor can then confirm and tell the patient the outcome. It's already happening for some tests.
67
28/11/2020 05:42:05 1 2
bbc
Just make sure incompetent ukgov isn't involved in testing or standards.
How did Grenfell come about? Flammable cladding is on over 250 hi rise UK wide. That's not one council or builders fault.. That's hundreds.
An automated system should be easy to test.. Every day send a known fail, positive and borderline pass or fail through the system.
16
27/11/2020 14:43:02 7 2
bbc
Any links to this incredible system that has never been implemented? Maybe there's a reason why it didn't/wouldn't work?
68
28/11/2020 05:46:12 0 0
bbc
It's not disbelievable. Medics have written emergency medical care books before for expeditions, travellers.
Here's one that's just a chatbot

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/technology-44635134
39
27/11/2020 18:56:04 1 0
bbc
AI works where the decision si based on a simple rule. Cells which look like this are cancerous. Cells which look like that, are benign.
Politics is a bit messier than that!
69
28/11/2020 05:51:06 0 0
bbc
Politics might be messy but current ukgov system surely has holes in fairness, representation etc.

Fptp? Bj only got 44% of UK votes to claim 80 seat majority & 100% power. How is that fair?
Camoron election got 37%, when lab got 30% & ukip 12%.
Its 21st century.. Where are moves over PR, eVoting, surveying, referenda etc by councils, MPs?
Brexit itself proved that MPs are clueless of ukpublic.
12
27/11/2020 14:22:00 11 2
bbc
£20 million

half a napkin for HS/2?
70
28/11/2020 05:53:32 2 0
bbc
Yes weird.. And bjs covid fails mean huge covid debt and austerity / tax rises for decades to come.
If people will be wfh in future would seem to make more sense to spend £10 billion on mobile & cable.
Even if hs2 goes ahead to scale back construction time.
40
27/11/2020 19:05:02 5 1
bbc
When you go to your GP about a wart that's appeared on your hand, a good GP will be looking at the rest of you whilst treating the wart. I doubt AI would notice that you were a bit down in the dumps today and so think to ask why. Many things are diagnosed - warts and all. Sorry!
71
28/11/2020 05:57:06 1 0
bbc
Currently Gp s offering phone consultations. They can't see rest of patient.
In recent news was bmj?(?) complaining GP's didn't have enough time with patients.
The times lve see gp they have never offered opinion or interest on any other issue, in fact they try to keep to one issue per 3 min appointment.
57
28/11/2020 01:06:19 4 0
bbc
Already in use. There was/is a language/medical learning chatbot (dressed up with smiley face) in Alder hey for children to talk to and it found out what really concerned children who asked it questions they never would of a doctor, and the most common was 'Am I going to die'. Diagnosing AI will replace medical doctors which otherwise are limited by their depth of knowledge . Robots 4 surgery
72
28/11/2020 05:58:40 2 0
bbc
Plus AI could be available 24/7 including out of office hours, weekends and Bank Holidays.
44
27/11/2020 19:31:40 3 2
bbc
Such systems can replace GPs, Doctors, only passing along the few non standard patients. What with robotic surgery, ai better at checking scans, the whole area of knowledge jobs can be replaced as were making jobs. By better machines.

Before you know it you will, wake up with a cough, Alexa will have listened to you coughing in your sleep, analysed your breath, pills arrive for breakfast.
73
28/11/2020 06:02:50 1 1
bbc
As you say AI could improve things.
Personalised medicine.
AI available 24/7.. Outside of office hours, bankholidays.
AI could also improve medicine.. There is more opportunity to collect medical data via sensors, logs etc (hopefully securely from amazon and Co).. Combined with NHS data set (again securely) could lead to new medical discoveries, insights, issues.
36
27/11/2020 18:13:49 2 1
bbc
"I don’t think there is any question about it. It can only be attributable to human error. This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error." ....Bowman: "Open the pod bay doors " HAL 9000: I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that. I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.I`ll be back !
74
28/11/2020 06:03:59 0 0
bbc
So AI is late then?
It's 2021 (almost) not 2001.
75
28/11/2020 09:10:38 3 0
bbc
The machine in a surgery is unlikely to do tests other than temperature.
It could run through a sequence of questions to narrow down key points for doctor to review.
76
28/11/2020 09:33:18 1 4
bbc
We're all using google to self diagnose. On the other hand do you want AI, if your loved ones are at end of life and it decides to withdraw care... or maybe they are not. If AI kills someone, who is blamed, struck off? NHS staff already wont treat someone having a heart attack on the pavement due to lack of insurance. So AI could take more and more risks away from doctors in our litigious culture.
77
28/11/2020 09:36:48 4 1
bbc
NHS Staff will treat heart attack victims on pavements.
76
28/11/2020 09:33:18 1 4
bbc
We're all using google to self diagnose. On the other hand do you want AI, if your loved ones are at end of life and it decides to withdraw care... or maybe they are not. If AI kills someone, who is blamed, struck off? NHS staff already wont treat someone having a heart attack on the pavement due to lack of insurance. So AI could take more and more risks away from doctors in our litigious culture.
77
28/11/2020 09:36:48 4 1
bbc
NHS Staff will treat heart attack victims on pavements.
78
28/11/2020 09:38:32 3 1
bbc
AI will not be a decision maker in the near future in areas like health as the potential liability costs are huge.
It will be a tool.
79
28/11/2020 09:53:48 5 6
bbc
I’m guessing these contracts go to some friend of some minister, as is the usual.
80
28/11/2020 10:03:46 3 1
bbc
Please don't give it to Dido Harding to manage.
81
28/11/2020 11:59:57 7 0
bbc
I wish there was a term other than artificial intelligence. It is crunching of big datasets. An admirable thing but not intelligence. Like algorithms use you always need to do a sanity check on the results.
82
28/11/2020 12:30:53 2 1
bbc
Totally agree. It seems as soon as the word 'intelligence' is used, some consider this as human and must be sentient. One second later, although it's 'obviously' malevolent and we're all doomed, at least we have sold a few newspapers.
86
28/11/2020 13:50:59 1 0
bbc
Machine Learning is lesser buzzword, for a variety of methods, some are age old statistics methods like regression that improves as dataset grows, same for NN with models they can use more training to improve.
AI is good for media headlines and for getting budgets past ignorant purse string holders.
81
28/11/2020 11:59:57 7 0
bbc
I wish there was a term other than artificial intelligence. It is crunching of big datasets. An admirable thing but not intelligence. Like algorithms use you always need to do a sanity check on the results.
82
28/11/2020 12:30:53 2 1
bbc
Totally agree. It seems as soon as the word 'intelligence' is used, some consider this as human and must be sentient. One second later, although it's 'obviously' malevolent and we're all doomed, at least we have sold a few newspapers.
83
28/11/2020 12:51:27 2 2
bbc
NOSIDA
I wish there was a term other than artificial intelligence. It is crunching of big datasets.

#

No it isn't.

It's demonstrating concepts such as learning and problem solving.
44
27/11/2020 19:31:40 3 2
bbc
Such systems can replace GPs, Doctors, only passing along the few non standard patients. What with robotic surgery, ai better at checking scans, the whole area of knowledge jobs can be replaced as were making jobs. By better machines.

Before you know it you will, wake up with a cough, Alexa will have listened to you coughing in your sleep, analysed your breath, pills arrive for breakfast.
84
28/11/2020 13:28:11 0 0
bbc
And no doubt Amazon will make millions from the sale of many unnecessary pharmaceuticals.
85
28/11/2020 13:34:09 2 0
bbc
With doctors' appointments becoming increasingly difficult and then with extended waits, wouldn't it be better to use AI and an initial form of triage with TWO important benefits: (i) many people would be happy to tell a computer/robot more then they tell their doctor and (ii) very many unecessary 'doctor' appointments could be redirected to a nurse. Result: easier and quicker primary care for all
87
28/11/2020 13:56:43 2 0
bbc
Plus with AI you get as long as you want to consider your response.
81
28/11/2020 11:59:57 7 0
bbc
I wish there was a term other than artificial intelligence. It is crunching of big datasets. An admirable thing but not intelligence. Like algorithms use you always need to do a sanity check on the results.
86
28/11/2020 13:50:59 1 0
bbc
Machine Learning is lesser buzzword, for a variety of methods, some are age old statistics methods like regression that improves as dataset grows, same for NN with models they can use more training to improve.
AI is good for media headlines and for getting budgets past ignorant purse string holders.
85
28/11/2020 13:34:09 2 0
bbc
With doctors' appointments becoming increasingly difficult and then with extended waits, wouldn't it be better to use AI and an initial form of triage with TWO important benefits: (i) many people would be happy to tell a computer/robot more then they tell their doctor and (ii) very many unecessary 'doctor' appointments could be redirected to a nurse. Result: easier and quicker primary care for all
87
28/11/2020 13:56:43 2 0
bbc
Plus with AI you get as long as you want to consider your response.
88
28/11/2020 14:23:24 3 0
bbc
Perhaps the Federation’s EMH doctor on Voyager (Star Trek), Joe, could become a reality in the not to distant future then.
65
28/11/2020 05:34:21 0 2
bbc
My thought too.
UK gov manages to spend every year
£12 billion foreign aid
£35 billion Mod.
With nothing to show for it.

Elon musk and spacex had $1 billion initial funding.

So how is ukgov efficient with money?
89
28/11/2020 14:44:50 1 0
bbc
UK PLC does very well out of Foreign Aid... "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours!".
90
28/11/2020 15:51:46 3 0
bbc
Already near impossible to see a doc in person when you are actually ill , so this isn't such a big deal . It could be useful for specialist advice. Can't help feeling we are becoming too dependant on computers and tech . The basic knowledge is not being taught and we are vulnerable to faults , criminals and cyber disruption from myriad scourses.
91
28/11/2020 16:29:00 2 2
bbc
Science Minister Amanda Solloway said:
"The UK is the birthplace of artificial intelligence"

And here endeth todays quote of complete B/S.

Presumably she's talking about a "World Beating" artificial intelligence, the type a Buffoon Clown would pretend was unique to the UK. The only "World Beating" artificial artifact, is the johnson.
92
28/11/2020 17:29:03 0 1
bbc
The referendum has shown that the UK needs considerably more intelligence, whether that is delivered artificially or not is a matter of debate.
94
JHB
28/11/2020 19:53:35 1 0
bbc
The referendum showed us that there are some who have such low intelligence that they thought they could overturn a democratic vote
93
JHB
28/11/2020 18:50:24 1 0
bbc
No such thing as Ai, yet at least. It's just very clever algorithms. In other news, recent Ofcom polls show BBC one of the least trusted news outlets in the UK
96
28/11/2020 22:55:55 1 0
bbc
When you consider that the over 55s are really the 1st gen to grow up with TV - it was all new - its now not all new - but a rehash - a oh no different - and oh my god how many times - Grow up its a new world
92
28/11/2020 17:29:03 0 1
bbc
The referendum has shown that the UK needs considerably more intelligence, whether that is delivered artificially or not is a matter of debate.
94
JHB
28/11/2020 19:53:35 1 0
bbc
The referendum showed us that there are some who have such low intelligence that they thought they could overturn a democratic vote
95
28/11/2020 22:54:16 1 0
bbc
It reminds me of self help books - or googling lumps - its only when you get in front of a mega computer - or real doctor that you find out its either nothing or something. Been there done that - the computer would have killed me the doctor saved my life. Its in what you ask, how you ask... the doctor knows without asking...
93
JHB
28/11/2020 18:50:24 1 0
bbc
No such thing as Ai, yet at least. It's just very clever algorithms. In other news, recent Ofcom polls show BBC one of the least trusted news outlets in the UK
96
28/11/2020 22:55:55 1 0
bbc
When you consider that the over 55s are really the 1st gen to grow up with TV - it was all new - its now not all new - but a rehash - a oh no different - and oh my god how many times - Grow up its a new world
97
28/11/2020 23:03:00 0 0
bbc
Split amongst companies this is not a lot of money.....