Spending review 'undermines UK green vision'
25/11/2020 | news | science | 238
The UK chancellor's spending review is accused of undermining the prime minister’s “green” vision.
1
26/11/2020 10:36:54 4 6
bbc
If we trained more tradesmen such as plumbers etc they could possibly earn six figure salaries, have skills the UK needs and have a job for life
2
26/11/2020 10:58:57 14 1
bbc
The six figure salary is a myth created by tabloids. It might be possible for a small precentage of top tradesmen to earn that much, by working long hours, but the majority can still earn a very good living in the £50-£60K bracket if they are good at what they do, and are willing to work hard.
If you want a job with a high salary and perks, try politics
9
26/11/2020 11:28:07 3 1
bbc
Turnover is not the same as profit.
1
26/11/2020 10:36:54 4 6
bbc
If we trained more tradesmen such as plumbers etc they could possibly earn six figure salaries, have skills the UK needs and have a job for life
2
26/11/2020 10:58:57 14 1
bbc
The six figure salary is a myth created by tabloids. It might be possible for a small precentage of top tradesmen to earn that much, by working long hours, but the majority can still earn a very good living in the £50-£60K bracket if they are good at what they do, and are willing to work hard.
If you want a job with a high salary and perks, try politics
13
26/11/2020 11:32:48 3 6
bbc
Or working for the BBC, I believe the wages are quite good there but it's hard to get in without an Oxbridge degree or family members who already work there.
17
26/11/2020 11:57:39 2 1
bbc
Maybe the ones who are happy to travel overseas and work as truckers and mechanics in high paying industries(mines, tar-sands, e.t.c.) Unfortunately a sizable fraction of those guys are also in the habit of p!$$ing away their windfall on overpriced boomtown housing and various vices.
25
Alf
26/11/2020 12:30:59 3 0
bbc
£50-60k is a very good salary.
3
26/11/2020 11:02:42 28 8
bbc
If we trained more of every skill, trade and profession we’d do the greatest of services to our young. We’d then be better able to look after those who can’t, for what ever reason, look after themselves. Those who won’t learn, won’t work, won’t contribute and expect to be “carried” should be compulsorily employed by the State to do those tasks that require minimal training in return for benefits.
79
26/11/2020 16:31:17 14 4
bbc
Why does "compulsorily employed" sound like a euphemism for indentured servitude?
211
27/11/2020 13:37:49 0 0
bbc
Scientists say we can provide most of our energy needs through renewables... http://www.skepticalscience.com/print.php?r=374

"Borrowing" money now is incredibly cheap (free) and our government has the best opportunity it will ever have to ensure our energy needs are met for the decades to come by investing now.

It will also stimulate the economy and provide 1000s of jobs. Get on with it!
4
26/11/2020 11:18:52 8 14
bbc
BBC environmental agenda item.
8
26/11/2020 11:27:07 3 12
bbc
True, By Roger Harrabin has the job title of "BBC environment analyst"
So there is zero surprise how he reports his opinion as facts & seeks vindication for his views from the echo-chamber
12
26/11/2020 11:31:00 7 0
bbc
What's your point?
16
QED
26/11/2020 11:56:55 11 1
bbc
As opposed to your put your head in the sand and hope the human race will survive the damage we cause agenda?
5
26/11/2020 11:18:54 16 3
bbc
They're saying one thing but then doing something else?

No way!!
6
26/11/2020 11:26:39 17 3
bbc
Boris spouts green tinged verbiage in order to try to show that he cares. Fortunately, no-one believes a word he says will ever come to pass under a Tory Government - it's driven by short-termism as much as it's driven by cronyism and the urge to make ever higher the mountains of its sponsors' wealth.
24
Alf
26/11/2020 12:30:16 8 1
bbc
Boris doesn't care about the climate, it's his girlfriend.
7
26/11/2020 11:27:05 8 5
bbc
What the "Green Vision" really means is that carbon emissions are exported, along with the jobs that go with all manufacturing activities, to countries, such as China, who don't give a fig about green anything.
11
26/11/2020 11:30:14 9 5
bbc
China does care!! The want to go green by 2060!!! Years after ever other country has. They still building more coal power stations every year than the whole of Europe had at its peak.
4
26/11/2020 11:18:52 8 14
bbc
BBC environmental agenda item.
8
26/11/2020 11:27:07 3 12
bbc
True, By Roger Harrabin has the job title of "BBC environment analyst"
So there is zero surprise how he reports his opinion as facts & seeks vindication for his views from the echo-chamber
1
26/11/2020 10:36:54 4 6
bbc
If we trained more tradesmen such as plumbers etc they could possibly earn six figure salaries, have skills the UK needs and have a job for life
9
26/11/2020 11:28:07 3 1
bbc
Turnover is not the same as profit.
10
26/11/2020 11:29:29 5 15
bbc
BBC preaching to masses about climate change while belting out megawatts of RF when the Public are far more worried if they'll have a job next week.
19
26/11/2020 12:18:39 10 10
bbc
You forget the XR mob who use the latest smartphones to organise the protests so they can fly 1st class to wave banners made from fossil fuels stating others have to use less fossil fuels than they do.

But if its woke its okay to be a hypocrite??
7
26/11/2020 11:27:05 8 5
bbc
What the "Green Vision" really means is that carbon emissions are exported, along with the jobs that go with all manufacturing activities, to countries, such as China, who don't give a fig about green anything.
11
26/11/2020 11:30:14 9 5
bbc
China does care!! The want to go green by 2060!!! Years after ever other country has. They still building more coal power stations every year than the whole of Europe had at its peak.
14
26/11/2020 11:48:34 7 3
bbc
Interestingly they are also producing more renewables than anyone else on the planet.

They are seeing a lot of environmental damage and want to get through the fossil fuel transition as fast as possible.
4
26/11/2020 11:18:52 8 14
bbc
BBC environmental agenda item.
12
26/11/2020 11:31:00 7 0
bbc
What's your point?
46
26/11/2020 13:54:03 3 1
bbc
Doesn't have one.
2
26/11/2020 10:58:57 14 1
bbc
The six figure salary is a myth created by tabloids. It might be possible for a small precentage of top tradesmen to earn that much, by working long hours, but the majority can still earn a very good living in the £50-£60K bracket if they are good at what they do, and are willing to work hard.
If you want a job with a high salary and perks, try politics
13
26/11/2020 11:32:48 3 6
bbc
Or working for the BBC, I believe the wages are quite good there but it's hard to get in without an Oxbridge degree or family members who already work there.
11
26/11/2020 11:30:14 9 5
bbc
China does care!! The want to go green by 2060!!! Years after ever other country has. They still building more coal power stations every year than the whole of Europe had at its peak.
14
26/11/2020 11:48:34 7 3
bbc
Interestingly they are also producing more renewables than anyone else on the planet.

They are seeing a lot of environmental damage and want to get through the fossil fuel transition as fast as possible.
20
26/11/2020 12:27:14 5 7
bbc
See you falling for the usual PR from China.

Suggest you stop being a sycophant and look at the trail of ecological destruction that China has created. One of the largest sources of ocean waste, still burning coal. Generates 30% CO2 per capita than we do. Their mining processes turn are vast areas into barren waste.

To complement China as you do is like saying Boris is Green because cycled once
15
26/11/2020 11:51:10 11 5
bbc
This is a poor article. Green groups say no, transport group say yes, no one really is analysing the science of the motor car and the nation's ability to adapt to using them less. There is no new information, just opinioniated agendas from groups with ideologies or vested interests.
18
26/11/2020 12:16:18 10 3
bbc
Roads can make travelling more efficient, for logistics & less damage to vehicle.
Bypasses can reduce congestion & pollution.
Planes can be the most efficient way of travelling.

But should we commute to a job 100 miles away from where we live? Or do you travel abroad unnecessarily? Caroline Lucas flies to the US 4x per year, because to see family.

The facts arent simple whereas the agendas are.
4
26/11/2020 11:18:52 8 14
bbc
BBC environmental agenda item.
16
QED
26/11/2020 11:56:55 11 1
bbc
As opposed to your put your head in the sand and hope the human race will survive the damage we cause agenda?
26
26/11/2020 12:31:28 4 6
bbc
As opposed to believing the hype & promoting opinions as facts.

The IPCC reports do not forecast that the sealevel will kill billions, or the sealevel will drown Paris, London etc by the end of this century. There is a more scientific based stance to take about AGW which the BBC & Roger Hasbin dont promote.
2
26/11/2020 10:58:57 14 1
bbc
The six figure salary is a myth created by tabloids. It might be possible for a small precentage of top tradesmen to earn that much, by working long hours, but the majority can still earn a very good living in the £50-£60K bracket if they are good at what they do, and are willing to work hard.
If you want a job with a high salary and perks, try politics
17
26/11/2020 11:57:39 2 1
bbc
Maybe the ones who are happy to travel overseas and work as truckers and mechanics in high paying industries(mines, tar-sands, e.t.c.) Unfortunately a sizable fraction of those guys are also in the habit of p!$$ing away their windfall on overpriced boomtown housing and various vices.
15
26/11/2020 11:51:10 11 5
bbc
This is a poor article. Green groups say no, transport group say yes, no one really is analysing the science of the motor car and the nation's ability to adapt to using them less. There is no new information, just opinioniated agendas from groups with ideologies or vested interests.
18
26/11/2020 12:16:18 10 3
bbc
Roads can make travelling more efficient, for logistics & less damage to vehicle.
Bypasses can reduce congestion & pollution.
Planes can be the most efficient way of travelling.

But should we commute to a job 100 miles away from where we live? Or do you travel abroad unnecessarily? Caroline Lucas flies to the US 4x per year, because to see family.

The facts arent simple whereas the agendas are.
50
26/11/2020 14:06:33 5 1
bbc
But more roads doesn't make it more efficient. It's well proven that adding capacity just increases demand. I don't think anybody's doubting the speed of planes, but efficiency... depends how you measure that. mpg of most planes isn't very good.
10
26/11/2020 11:29:29 5 15
bbc
BBC preaching to masses about climate change while belting out megawatts of RF when the Public are far more worried if they'll have a job next week.
19
26/11/2020 12:18:39 10 10
bbc
You forget the XR mob who use the latest smartphones to organise the protests so they can fly 1st class to wave banners made from fossil fuels stating others have to use less fossil fuels than they do.

But if its woke its okay to be a hypocrite??
33
26/11/2020 13:21:20 7 1
bbc
Next you'll be telling everyone that 5G spreads covid.
51
26/11/2020 14:07:43 4 1
bbc
Oh dear you've set off my "woke" alarm. Now I can't take anything you say seriously.
14
26/11/2020 11:48:34 7 3
bbc
Interestingly they are also producing more renewables than anyone else on the planet.

They are seeing a lot of environmental damage and want to get through the fossil fuel transition as fast as possible.
20
26/11/2020 12:27:14 5 7
bbc
See you falling for the usual PR from China.

Suggest you stop being a sycophant and look at the trail of ecological destruction that China has created. One of the largest sources of ocean waste, still burning coal. Generates 30% CO2 per capita than we do. Their mining processes turn are vast areas into barren waste.

To complement China as you do is like saying Boris is Green because cycled once
122
26/11/2020 18:02:55 2 1
bbc
You've changed your tune, Grumpy. For years you have argued that developing countries should get their energy from coal, rather than jumping straight to renewables.

Now you are complaining when China, the largest developing country in the world, builds coal plants.
21
26/11/2020 12:28:06 16 2
bbc
How about the UK move more of its freight from roads to more efficient rail and sea. You'd think the latter would be especially attractive, given that GB is an island.
28
26/11/2020 12:39:17 4 20
bbc
Brilliant idea.

Lets rip out the centre of ever town & city and build a massive rail yard. And if the railways cant cope because they are already at capacity lets build more railways. Any town or village that doesnt have a railway will have to abandoned so that everyone will live in soulless urban hubs of railway yards.

Why havent the planners & politicians implemented your stupendous plan??
45
26/11/2020 13:50:32 4 0
bbc
Lack of capacity on the rail network is probably the biggest blocker to that right now.
22
Alf
26/11/2020 12:28:40 7 4
bbc
Easing congestion and reducing the time cars spend sitting stationary in traffic is wonderful news for the environment.
44
26/11/2020 13:49:02 2 3
bbc
It would, but more roads won't do that. It's well studied over decades. Every time capacity is added it very quickly gets filled up. Read about induced demand here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand#:~:text=Induced%20demand%20is%20demand%20that,%2Dup%22%20as%20latent%20demand.
23
26/11/2020 12:29:35 2 6
bbc
What a rubbish article. First announcement yesterday was monies for the next year not longer term. what do we need first and then with more data in how progress is being made, including the vaccine rollout, we are in a better place to announce areas
Second who cares or compares what Germany or France do! We are way ahead on lower emissions than Germany dirty brown coal that they use and France....
27
26/11/2020 12:32:19 8 1
bbc
Well France's electricity sector is overwhelmingly nuclear, with a good bit of the remainder coming from hydro, ...so pretty sure they're one of the top in Europe, if not the World, for low carbon electricity.
43
26/11/2020 13:48:04 3 0
bbc
What an ironic username you have.
59
26/11/2020 14:44:07 2 0
bbc
France has a lot of nuclear power stations, the UK imports quite a lot of electricity from France, it would be sensible for the UK to produce all of it's own electric and that means nuclear.
101
26/11/2020 17:16:29 0 0
bbc
Don't forget the coa; fired power stations in China and India etc.
6
26/11/2020 11:26:39 17 3
bbc
Boris spouts green tinged verbiage in order to try to show that he cares. Fortunately, no-one believes a word he says will ever come to pass under a Tory Government - it's driven by short-termism as much as it's driven by cronyism and the urge to make ever higher the mountains of its sponsors' wealth.
24
Alf
26/11/2020 12:30:16 8 1
bbc
Boris doesn't care about the climate, it's his girlfriend.
2
26/11/2020 10:58:57 14 1
bbc
The six figure salary is a myth created by tabloids. It might be possible for a small precentage of top tradesmen to earn that much, by working long hours, but the majority can still earn a very good living in the £50-£60K bracket if they are good at what they do, and are willing to work hard.
If you want a job with a high salary and perks, try politics
25
Alf
26/11/2020 12:30:59 3 0
bbc
£50-60k is a very good salary.
30
26/11/2020 12:54:54 2 0
bbc
Yes, but it's not a "six figure salary"
16
QED
26/11/2020 11:56:55 11 1
bbc
As opposed to your put your head in the sand and hope the human race will survive the damage we cause agenda?
26
26/11/2020 12:31:28 4 6
bbc
As opposed to believing the hype & promoting opinions as facts.

The IPCC reports do not forecast that the sealevel will kill billions, or the sealevel will drown Paris, London etc by the end of this century. There is a more scientific based stance to take about AGW which the BBC & Roger Hasbin dont promote.
47
26/11/2020 13:54:43 3 0
bbc
Any appropriate peer reviewed work you can point to about this?
92
26/11/2020 16:59:53 1 0
bbc
Really, how bad could the sea levels rising be? It's not like there are any Lowlands just across the English Channel which have a history of being flooded!
23
26/11/2020 12:29:35 2 6
bbc
What a rubbish article. First announcement yesterday was monies for the next year not longer term. what do we need first and then with more data in how progress is being made, including the vaccine rollout, we are in a better place to announce areas
Second who cares or compares what Germany or France do! We are way ahead on lower emissions than Germany dirty brown coal that they use and France....
27
26/11/2020 12:32:19 8 1
bbc
Well France's electricity sector is overwhelmingly nuclear, with a good bit of the remainder coming from hydro, ...so pretty sure they're one of the top in Europe, if not the World, for low carbon electricity.
118
tux
26/11/2020 17:55:47 0 2
bbc
Norway has 98% hydro power and is banning new fossil cars in 2025. That is 4 years time. Already only 20% of new cars are fossil cars, 20% hybrid, and 60% full battery EV. It can be done if you have the right government.
21
26/11/2020 12:28:06 16 2
bbc
How about the UK move more of its freight from roads to more efficient rail and sea. You'd think the latter would be especially attractive, given that GB is an island.
28
26/11/2020 12:39:17 4 20
bbc
Brilliant idea.

Lets rip out the centre of ever town & city and build a massive rail yard. And if the railways cant cope because they are already at capacity lets build more railways. Any town or village that doesnt have a railway will have to abandoned so that everyone will live in soulless urban hubs of railway yards.

Why havent the planners & politicians implemented your stupendous plan??
29
26/11/2020 12:49:27 8 0
bbc
Lol,.. as I understand it, major commercial transport hubs/werehouses would generally be built on the outskirts. Obviously local distribution would still be road based, ...long haul road could be moved to rail and sea in a country like the UK.
57
26/11/2020 14:38:57 9 0
bbc
That stupendous plan already existed before Beeching.. ALL ripped out to save a quid !!

Now we need it it's GONE !!
28
26/11/2020 12:39:17 4 20
bbc
Brilliant idea.

Lets rip out the centre of ever town & city and build a massive rail yard. And if the railways cant cope because they are already at capacity lets build more railways. Any town or village that doesnt have a railway will have to abandoned so that everyone will live in soulless urban hubs of railway yards.

Why havent the planners & politicians implemented your stupendous plan??
29
26/11/2020 12:49:27 8 0
bbc
Lol,.. as I understand it, major commercial transport hubs/werehouses would generally be built on the outskirts. Obviously local distribution would still be road based, ...long haul road could be moved to rail and sea in a country like the UK.
25
Alf
26/11/2020 12:30:59 3 0
bbc
£50-60k is a very good salary.
30
26/11/2020 12:54:54 2 0
bbc
Yes, but it's not a "six figure salary"
48
26/11/2020 13:56:03 0 0
bbc
£50,200.20
31
26/11/2020 13:00:05 7 11
bbc
The spending review does not undermine the environment

It does however undermine the agenda from the green welly brigade. That's a good thing in my book
56
26/11/2020 14:34:42 1 0
bbc
Other colour Wellies are available....
32
26/11/2020 13:14:51 21 4
bbc
The only alternative to improving roads is gradually nationalising the bus and train services, stop private companies charging a fortune for regular travel.

Because £3000+ for an annual ticket is BS you could buy and run a small second hand car for that. And so ... people do, resulting in fewer customers for the rail companies, meaning higher prices to keep the shareholders happy, Ad infinitum.
93
26/11/2020 17:02:47 12 8
bbc
Building more roads is totally consistent with a policy of promoting green transport and banning sales of ICE.

Public transport is proven to be costly and inflexible. It works only in large urban areas where passenger volumes justify the frequency of services.
119
26/11/2020 18:00:01 6 0
bbc
I'm not sure of other peoples awareness but it seems to be the case that the sole purpose of a politician is to steal or squander money from the public purse in as many different ways as possible.

What kind of an insane person thinks putting key infrastructure into private hands is a good idea, except those looking to benefit from it in some way.

Privatised profits, socialised loses...
19
26/11/2020 12:18:39 10 10
bbc
You forget the XR mob who use the latest smartphones to organise the protests so they can fly 1st class to wave banners made from fossil fuels stating others have to use less fossil fuels than they do.

But if its woke its okay to be a hypocrite??
33
26/11/2020 13:21:20 7 1
bbc
Next you'll be telling everyone that 5G spreads covid.
34
26/11/2020 13:22:04 12 8
bbc
"Environment groups are most angry at the roads programme"

We have a Green Party they have precisely one MP, win a general election if you want your agenda enacted...
81
26/11/2020 16:32:48 9 1
bbc
While we wait for the people who believed the lies about Brexit to open their eyes about climate change the planet will become ever harder for humans to live on. We need educated(?) MP's to tale the lead but instead we get bluster and catch phrases (Get Brexit Done) instead of intelligent responses.
83
26/11/2020 16:34:58 4 1
bbc
By percentage of the vote, they should have 17 or 18 seats.
35
26/11/2020 13:24:51 4 2
bbc
The academic led "greenie vision of everything" that effects everyone else is going to become a myth.
Next year if Corvid21 raises its head, those of us that are left are really are going to find out, what the cost of this virus is.
97
26/11/2020 17:09:27 1 0
bbc
Is Corvid21 a sci-fi raven?
36
26/11/2020 13:29:25 9 7
bbc
The ONLY way to be 'green' is to reduce the population. Anyone who thinks otherwise has not properly checked the data. Give child allowance for the first two, tax any after that. Problem solved in about a century (although nature will have done it by then anyway).
80
26/11/2020 16:32:42 1 0
bbc
Hello, the CCP called, they'd like their idea back.
115
tux
26/11/2020 17:48:45 1 0
bbc
Actually, we are heading for a crash in the population in the next century. The problem at the moment is the death rate is half the birth rate. It is the death rate that needs to increase because the bulge in the demographics is in the older generations. The median age of the population is steadily increasing each year. There will be more people over 65 than children.
37
26/11/2020 13:30:28 16 3
bbc
The last time I checked, public transport (apart from trains), EV's and bicycles all used roads.
42
26/11/2020 13:46:10 10 2
bbc
Indeed, and if the proposal was to add dedicated cycling or bus infrastructure, maybe some routes that can only be used by EVs (though I wouldn't advocate that) it might have legs, but this will merely result in more driving because of induced demand.
38
26/11/2020 13:31:18 21 2
bbc
Government spending on infrastructure in the next few years is going to be off the charts. We're going to see the biggest infrastructure splurge in history - it's the only way the government can soak up the unemployment that is coming - literally paying people to dig holes.

Although we'll all be paying for it in the long run.
234
27/11/2020 21:07:57 0 0
bbc
Many years ago road-building was a labour intensive activity, which is why governments considered it a good way to boost employment while cresting infrastructure. But nowadays road building is equipment intensive, and not a good antidote to unemployment. Government is using an outdated policy toolkit from last century.
39
26/11/2020 13:33:21 24 6
bbc
Surely everyone has realised by now that NOTHING that Boris Johnson says can be believed? I'll be amazed if ANY of his "pledges" ever materialise.
221
27/11/2020 14:32:53 2 0
bbc
if only people voted in the election like they voted on this comment
40
26/11/2020 13:35:30 10 8
bbc
More roads is good for the environment.

Long traffic jams with cars sitting idling for hours instead of getting quickly and efficiently to where they're going and turning the engine off... Not rocket science.

Also, buses, trams, bicycles and EVs use roads too.

All goes to prove that most of the green whingers aren't concerned with even simple reality: only their pseudo-religious dogma.
41
26/11/2020 13:44:24 7 8
bbc
Whilst this seems sensible on the surface it doesn't stand up. If you build roads people will use them. More roads leads directly to more driving rather than the same number of drivers moving more efficiently. We've seen this over the decades. Any added capacity is quickly filled. There can be a number of causes and the catchall term of "induced demand" is where you should start reading.
40
26/11/2020 13:35:30 10 8
bbc
More roads is good for the environment.

Long traffic jams with cars sitting idling for hours instead of getting quickly and efficiently to where they're going and turning the engine off... Not rocket science.

Also, buses, trams, bicycles and EVs use roads too.

All goes to prove that most of the green whingers aren't concerned with even simple reality: only their pseudo-religious dogma.
41
26/11/2020 13:44:24 7 8
bbc
Whilst this seems sensible on the surface it doesn't stand up. If you build roads people will use them. More roads leads directly to more driving rather than the same number of drivers moving more efficiently. We've seen this over the decades. Any added capacity is quickly filled. There can be a number of causes and the catchall term of "induced demand" is where you should start reading.
70
26/11/2020 15:37:49 4 3
bbc
Loving the downvotes. This has been known since the 1930s folks. Clicking that thumbs down doesn't change it you know.
In New York they couldn't understand why building more roads immediately led to more traffic congestion, not less..... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand#:~:text=Induced%20demand%20is%20demand%20that,%2Dup%22%20as%20latent%20demand.
37
26/11/2020 13:30:28 16 3
bbc
The last time I checked, public transport (apart from trains), EV's and bicycles all used roads.
42
26/11/2020 13:46:10 10 2
bbc
Indeed, and if the proposal was to add dedicated cycling or bus infrastructure, maybe some routes that can only be used by EVs (though I wouldn't advocate that) it might have legs, but this will merely result in more driving because of induced demand.
87
26/11/2020 16:46:51 1 6
bbc
One route I used had consistent traffic congestion. Other than when the buses didnt run the route due to a strike.

Buses dont automatically reduce congestion, they can add to it. But that would spoil your little monologue on private bad, public transport good??

The answer you really struggle with is "it depends"
23
26/11/2020 12:29:35 2 6
bbc
What a rubbish article. First announcement yesterday was monies for the next year not longer term. what do we need first and then with more data in how progress is being made, including the vaccine rollout, we are in a better place to announce areas
Second who cares or compares what Germany or France do! We are way ahead on lower emissions than Germany dirty brown coal that they use and France....
43
26/11/2020 13:48:04 3 0
bbc
What an ironic username you have.
22
Alf
26/11/2020 12:28:40 7 4
bbc
Easing congestion and reducing the time cars spend sitting stationary in traffic is wonderful news for the environment.
44
26/11/2020 13:49:02 2 3
bbc
It would, but more roads won't do that. It's well studied over decades. Every time capacity is added it very quickly gets filled up. Read about induced demand here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand#:~:text=Induced%20demand%20is%20demand%20that,%2Dup%22%20as%20latent%20demand.
21
26/11/2020 12:28:06 16 2
bbc
How about the UK move more of its freight from roads to more efficient rail and sea. You'd think the latter would be especially attractive, given that GB is an island.
45
26/11/2020 13:50:32 4 0
bbc
Lack of capacity on the rail network is probably the biggest blocker to that right now.
12
26/11/2020 11:31:00 7 0
bbc
What's your point?
46
26/11/2020 13:54:03 3 1
bbc
Doesn't have one.
26
26/11/2020 12:31:28 4 6
bbc
As opposed to believing the hype & promoting opinions as facts.

The IPCC reports do not forecast that the sealevel will kill billions, or the sealevel will drown Paris, London etc by the end of this century. There is a more scientific based stance to take about AGW which the BBC & Roger Hasbin dont promote.
47
26/11/2020 13:54:43 3 0
bbc
Any appropriate peer reviewed work you can point to about this?
89
26/11/2020 16:51:20 0 5
bbc
I know you struggle with any idea that is contrary to you. Try XR boasting how billions were going die, or their various eco-alarmists that post links to very selective articles that claim Exeter will be in danger from flooding by 2030. As if its 8m above sealevel.

Notice you never question the validity of the research that backs up your own view. Why would that be, baaa????
30
26/11/2020 12:54:54 2 0
bbc
Yes, but it's not a "six figure salary"
48
26/11/2020 13:56:03 0 0
bbc
£50,200.20
49
26/11/2020 13:58:28 10 2
bbc
The problem with more roads is it doesn't lead to everything flowing more freely, it leads to more driving. Added capacity is quickly filled. If extra capacity is dedicated to cycling or buses, or trams, that's a different matter... but it isn't what's being proposed.
52
26/11/2020 14:11:06 6 2
bbc
If you're not aware of the concepts behind induced demand, here's a bit of reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand#:~:text=Induced%20demand%20is%20demand%20that,%2Dup%22%20as%20latent%20demand.
18
26/11/2020 12:16:18 10 3
bbc
Roads can make travelling more efficient, for logistics & less damage to vehicle.
Bypasses can reduce congestion & pollution.
Planes can be the most efficient way of travelling.

But should we commute to a job 100 miles away from where we live? Or do you travel abroad unnecessarily? Caroline Lucas flies to the US 4x per year, because to see family.

The facts arent simple whereas the agendas are.
50
26/11/2020 14:06:33 5 1
bbc
But more roads doesn't make it more efficient. It's well proven that adding capacity just increases demand. I don't think anybody's doubting the speed of planes, but efficiency... depends how you measure that. mpg of most planes isn't very good.
19
26/11/2020 12:18:39 10 10
bbc
You forget the XR mob who use the latest smartphones to organise the protests so they can fly 1st class to wave banners made from fossil fuels stating others have to use less fossil fuels than they do.

But if its woke its okay to be a hypocrite??
51
26/11/2020 14:07:43 4 1
bbc
Oh dear you've set off my "woke" alarm. Now I can't take anything you say seriously.
49
26/11/2020 13:58:28 10 2
bbc
The problem with more roads is it doesn't lead to everything flowing more freely, it leads to more driving. Added capacity is quickly filled. If extra capacity is dedicated to cycling or buses, or trams, that's a different matter... but it isn't what's being proposed.
52
26/11/2020 14:11:06 6 2
bbc
If you're not aware of the concepts behind induced demand, here's a bit of reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand#:~:text=Induced%20demand%20is%20demand%20that,%2Dup%22%20as%20latent%20demand.
86
26/11/2020 16:43:56 0 6
bbc
YOU MUST ALL BELIEVE WHAT WIKIPEDEA STATES BECAUSE IT BACKS UP Mr Smith views ????

Or just use some common sense: look there is a faster route hmm perhaps I will use the newer road vs the country lanes.
53
26/11/2020 14:12:20 6 0
bbc
I would cycle to work 11 miles if there was a dedicated route.

However that would only to avoid the congestion.

It takes me 45 minutes by car and 1 hour 15 by bike.

When I make the same journey off peak it takes 25 mins.
62
26/11/2020 15:16:42 5 3
bbc
It's depressing how many people are so frightened of traffic that they won't cycle on roads. How have we got to this situation? I have been a cyclist for over 50 years and have never felt threatened by traffic. Just know and obey the rules of the road (and be aware always of what is going on around you) and you will very likely be fine.
54
26/11/2020 14:18:46 31 4
bbc
I suspect the biggest issue most people have with roads is their condition. Rather than build more, perhaps fix the infrastructure we already have. If you actually want to improve transport efficiency, given road use pricing is almost inevitable, time of use pricing should be trialed. Reduce demand by providing an incentive to flatten the demand peak. Building more roads will do the opposite.
96
26/11/2020 17:08:03 7 4
bbc
How the hell do you "reduce demand by providing an incentive to flatten the demand peak" when you have to be at work on time?
184
27/11/2020 10:03:44 3 0
bbc
To be fair 'road pricing' is already in effect. You drive lots, you pay lots of fuel duty. You drive lots in an inefficient wasteful car with a large engine you pay even more fuel duty. Road pricing is only being put forward to plug the gap in reduced fuel duty due to electric vehicles. The solution is less cars, more active travel and better public transport, plus more people working from home
220
27/11/2020 14:32:00 0 0
bbc
but accidents and insruance claims are good for the economy. things have to be repaired or replaced.

keeping existing technology working...very little profit to be made in that
231
27/11/2020 18:46:50 0 0
bbc
Northamptonshire's minor roads are largely dangerous. An absolute disgrace. They must be getting sued left right & centre by motorists and cyclists. If they are not, they should be.
55
26/11/2020 14:27:23 13 9
bbc
Even electric cars need roads, so the plan to increase road capacity and shorten journey times is perfectly sensible. The green lobby need to be more realistic.
68
26/11/2020 15:32:50 10 4
bbc
It isn't, because it won't. Added road capacity will just fill up due to induced/latent demand. It's been known for decades that you can't just build your way out of traffic congestion.
85
26/11/2020 16:40:41 2 5
bbc
"The green lobby need to be more realistic."

Some are, but they get drowned out by the hysterical hypocrites as the media rely on them for clickbait. Green Party said that a frequent flyer was a person who flies more than 4 times. Which is the number of times Caroline Lucas the *only* GreenParty MP flies to the US.

Bypasses can reduce pollution despite what Wikipedia claims ??
236
27/11/2020 21:17:12 0 0
bbc
Electric cars will develop alongside self-driving cars. And these will ultimately need much less road per car.
31
26/11/2020 13:00:05 7 11
bbc
The spending review does not undermine the environment

It does however undermine the agenda from the green welly brigade. That's a good thing in my book
56
26/11/2020 14:34:42 1 0
bbc
Other colour Wellies are available....
28
26/11/2020 12:39:17 4 20
bbc
Brilliant idea.

Lets rip out the centre of ever town & city and build a massive rail yard. And if the railways cant cope because they are already at capacity lets build more railways. Any town or village that doesnt have a railway will have to abandoned so that everyone will live in soulless urban hubs of railway yards.

Why havent the planners & politicians implemented your stupendous plan??
57
26/11/2020 14:38:57 9 0
bbc
That stupendous plan already existed before Beeching.. ALL ripped out to save a quid !!

Now we need it it's GONE !!
91
26/11/2020 16:53:35 1 5
bbc
And what was the population back then. Ever heard of context?
58
26/11/2020 14:34:02 31 12
bbc
Come on, you can't undermine something that hasn't been thought out properly, or even a little bit. Most of BJ's green suggestions are laughable. The only vision he has is of him remaining in power as long as possible, by making up implausibilities that most people don't' have the sense to submit to scrutiny: on which they disappear like the Cheshire Cat.
181
27/11/2020 09:37:54 4 10
bbc
The default position for politicians with no ideas is to virtue signal about climate. They really are that thick and craven. Never mind that atmospheric CO2 levels have never driven the climate in all of geological history.
23
26/11/2020 12:29:35 2 6
bbc
What a rubbish article. First announcement yesterday was monies for the next year not longer term. what do we need first and then with more data in how progress is being made, including the vaccine rollout, we are in a better place to announce areas
Second who cares or compares what Germany or France do! We are way ahead on lower emissions than Germany dirty brown coal that they use and France....
59
26/11/2020 14:44:07 2 0
bbc
France has a lot of nuclear power stations, the UK imports quite a lot of electricity from France, it would be sensible for the UK to produce all of it's own electric and that means nuclear.
60
26/11/2020 14:53:54 2 12
bbc
I can see the advantage of creating more roads, but no one has come up with a suitable plan for improving the grid for all these electric cars - thousands of cars charging at 7.5Kw will melt the local streets! Plus EVs aren't clean - electricity comes from power stations which burn fossil fuels - green energy is hitting walls coz people don't want wind farms, or solar panels anywhere near them.
63
26/11/2020 15:18:55 7 3
bbc
Electric car batteries will become more efficient, already manufactures are developing smaller more efficient batteries which need less electricity to fully charge, plus car engines will also become smaller, yet powerful. This country is already weaning itself off fossil fuels (coal/oil plants closing) to be replaced by wind, solar, wave power and nuclear when it comes to generating electricity.
66
26/11/2020 15:31:25 3 1
bbc
The national grid don't seem to share your concerns, but what do they know.
67
26/11/2020 15:31:40 2 2
bbc
Why do we need more roads? We are one of the most connected countries in the world. There is literally no where in this country that is more than 20 minutes from a road.
105
tux
26/11/2020 17:26:00 1 0
bbc
Electric cars charge during the night on cheap off-peak electricity such as Octopus Energy's Agile tariff where your rate varies every half an hour. During stormy nights in the North Sea, too much wind power is produced and the tariff decreases below 5p/kWh and sometimes goes negative meaning you are paid to charge your car (or use any device in your home). More wind turbines = cheap electricity.
108
tux
26/11/2020 17:35:10 2 1
bbc
7.5kW will not "melt the streets" because we used to have electric cookers so the infrastructure is already there. Many houses have 100A fuses which limits the house to about 23kW total. Also, 14kWh batteries can be deployed in homes to charge up using cheap off-peak electricity and discharge off-grid at peak times or sell back to the grid for a profit. So fewer number of power stations needed.
61
26/11/2020 15:11:55 26 8
bbc
There was never going to be a 'green' recovery - the Tories don't believe in ecological husbandry, only commerce and profits. Just another populist-seeking lie from BJ to add to the huge list.
172
27/11/2020 08:26:48 2 1
bbc
I agree
53
26/11/2020 14:12:20 6 0
bbc
I would cycle to work 11 miles if there was a dedicated route.

However that would only to avoid the congestion.

It takes me 45 minutes by car and 1 hour 15 by bike.

When I make the same journey off peak it takes 25 mins.
62
26/11/2020 15:16:42 5 3
bbc
It's depressing how many people are so frightened of traffic that they won't cycle on roads. How have we got to this situation? I have been a cyclist for over 50 years and have never felt threatened by traffic. Just know and obey the rules of the road (and be aware always of what is going on around you) and you will very likely be fine.
69
26/11/2020 15:34:31 3 1
bbc
There is a simple solution, the government should inverst in a cyling network that connects all towns and cities and is safe. Will they do it? Of course they won't, oligarchs travel by helicopter not bicycle and they are the puppet masters of dodo Johnson and his cabinet of crooks.
71
26/11/2020 15:40:43 6 1
bbc
The roads I have to travel on have lots of bends and hills where drivers have limited sight of you until they are on top of you.

I have no qualms about cycling in daylight, but on dark wet mornings and nights there is no way I am risking it.
124
26/11/2020 18:12:29 5 0
bbc
I don't know about you, but an 18 wheeler passing four feet from my right ear at 60mph definitely puts the fear of God into this old cyclist.
60
26/11/2020 14:53:54 2 12
bbc
I can see the advantage of creating more roads, but no one has come up with a suitable plan for improving the grid for all these electric cars - thousands of cars charging at 7.5Kw will melt the local streets! Plus EVs aren't clean - electricity comes from power stations which burn fossil fuels - green energy is hitting walls coz people don't want wind farms, or solar panels anywhere near them.
63
26/11/2020 15:18:55 7 3
bbc
Electric car batteries will become more efficient, already manufactures are developing smaller more efficient batteries which need less electricity to fully charge, plus car engines will also become smaller, yet powerful. This country is already weaning itself off fossil fuels (coal/oil plants closing) to be replaced by wind, solar, wave power and nuclear when it comes to generating electricity.
114
26/11/2020 17:47:45 1 2
bbc
Try looking at gridwatch for the power generation. This am at 9.30 we had 1%wind, 1%solar, 60% gas,15% nuclear,6% coal, the rest US woodchip. We need 75% more power generation just to electrify all cars. It cannot happen wit wind and solar.
125
26/11/2020 18:12:48 2 1
bbc
yes and where do we get the material for the batteries yes we use cheap labour and mine it again destroying more of the planet can you guys come up with anything as a alternative ever
132
26/11/2020 18:47:11 1 0
bbc
cannot get more energy OUT of a battery than you put into it in the first place
64
26/11/2020 15:28:21 16 1
bbc
It was only ever greenwashed lip service anyway.
65
26/11/2020 15:30:24 17 7
bbc
As with anything concerning the tories, actions speak louder than words, and so far the tories actions on cliamte change and the environment are pathetic.
75
26/11/2020 16:18:38 8 12
bbc
And what does that make Labour's then?!
They did absoultely zilch.
60
26/11/2020 14:53:54 2 12
bbc
I can see the advantage of creating more roads, but no one has come up with a suitable plan for improving the grid for all these electric cars - thousands of cars charging at 7.5Kw will melt the local streets! Plus EVs aren't clean - electricity comes from power stations which burn fossil fuels - green energy is hitting walls coz people don't want wind farms, or solar panels anywhere near them.
66
26/11/2020 15:31:25 3 1
bbc
The national grid don't seem to share your concerns, but what do they know.
90
26/11/2020 16:52:42 0 2
bbc
Got a peer reviewed paper for hat? You seem to always want one when someone even suggests an opinion that goes against your "world" view.
60
26/11/2020 14:53:54 2 12
bbc
I can see the advantage of creating more roads, but no one has come up with a suitable plan for improving the grid for all these electric cars - thousands of cars charging at 7.5Kw will melt the local streets! Plus EVs aren't clean - electricity comes from power stations which burn fossil fuels - green energy is hitting walls coz people don't want wind farms, or solar panels anywhere near them.
67
26/11/2020 15:31:40 2 2
bbc
Why do we need more roads? We are one of the most connected countries in the world. There is literally no where in this country that is more than 20 minutes from a road.
72
26/11/2020 15:43:09 1 0
bbc
I dont want more roads just better ones where the pinch points are improved.
55
26/11/2020 14:27:23 13 9
bbc
Even electric cars need roads, so the plan to increase road capacity and shorten journey times is perfectly sensible. The green lobby need to be more realistic.
68
26/11/2020 15:32:50 10 4
bbc
It isn't, because it won't. Added road capacity will just fill up due to induced/latent demand. It's been known for decades that you can't just build your way out of traffic congestion.
74
26/11/2020 16:12:55 5 4
bbc
Demand for road space is not infinite, the limiting factor is the number of drivers.
The green lobby seems to assume that there are millions of drivers waiting for the opportunity to drive round in pointless circles when the reality is that they just want to get to an essential destination in the shortest and most efficient fashion.
62
26/11/2020 15:16:42 5 3
bbc
It's depressing how many people are so frightened of traffic that they won't cycle on roads. How have we got to this situation? I have been a cyclist for over 50 years and have never felt threatened by traffic. Just know and obey the rules of the road (and be aware always of what is going on around you) and you will very likely be fine.
69
26/11/2020 15:34:31 3 1
bbc
There is a simple solution, the government should inverst in a cyling network that connects all towns and cities and is safe. Will they do it? Of course they won't, oligarchs travel by helicopter not bicycle and they are the puppet masters of dodo Johnson and his cabinet of crooks.
41
26/11/2020 13:44:24 7 8
bbc
Whilst this seems sensible on the surface it doesn't stand up. If you build roads people will use them. More roads leads directly to more driving rather than the same number of drivers moving more efficiently. We've seen this over the decades. Any added capacity is quickly filled. There can be a number of causes and the catchall term of "induced demand" is where you should start reading.
70
26/11/2020 15:37:49 4 3
bbc
Loving the downvotes. This has been known since the 1930s folks. Clicking that thumbs down doesn't change it you know.
In New York they couldn't understand why building more roads immediately led to more traffic congestion, not less..... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand#:~:text=Induced%20demand%20is%20demand%20that,%2Dup%22%20as%20latent%20demand.
62
26/11/2020 15:16:42 5 3
bbc
It's depressing how many people are so frightened of traffic that they won't cycle on roads. How have we got to this situation? I have been a cyclist for over 50 years and have never felt threatened by traffic. Just know and obey the rules of the road (and be aware always of what is going on around you) and you will very likely be fine.
71
26/11/2020 15:40:43 6 1
bbc
The roads I have to travel on have lots of bends and hills where drivers have limited sight of you until they are on top of you.

I have no qualms about cycling in daylight, but on dark wet mornings and nights there is no way I am risking it.
67
26/11/2020 15:31:40 2 2
bbc
Why do we need more roads? We are one of the most connected countries in the world. There is literally no where in this country that is more than 20 minutes from a road.
72
26/11/2020 15:43:09 1 0
bbc
I dont want more roads just better ones where the pinch points are improved.
73
26/11/2020 15:51:50 2 3
bbc
First rule of populist government is that the underlings take the flack. "The tsar is pious and good, it is the Boyars who implement everything who are venial and bad."
131
26/11/2020 18:45:28 0 1
bbc
You are aware that, despite the word now being used as a term of derision by the Left, if you go back to it's Latin roots then POPULISTS is exactly what politicians SHOULD be as it more or less means 'of or for the people'
68
26/11/2020 15:32:50 10 4
bbc
It isn't, because it won't. Added road capacity will just fill up due to induced/latent demand. It's been known for decades that you can't just build your way out of traffic congestion.
74
26/11/2020 16:12:55 5 4
bbc
Demand for road space is not infinite, the limiting factor is the number of drivers.
The green lobby seems to assume that there are millions of drivers waiting for the opportunity to drive round in pointless circles when the reality is that they just want to get to an essential destination in the shortest and most efficient fashion.
84
26/11/2020 16:39:39 1 0
bbc
107
26/11/2020 17:32:14 2 1
bbc
This isn't a "green lobby" thing... it's a long standing planning problem that's more about value for money than anything else. If congestion and efficient movement of people and goods are the problem, building roads might be the best solution but isn't necessarily. The key point is what seems obvious about adding capacity may not work as you expect. Clearly that has environmental consequences.
65
26/11/2020 15:30:24 17 7
bbc
As with anything concerning the tories, actions speak louder than words, and so far the tories actions on cliamte change and the environment are pathetic.
75
26/11/2020 16:18:38 8 12
bbc
And what does that make Labour's then?!
They did absoultely zilch.
77
26/11/2020 16:27:58 8 1
bbc
So, the govt that was last in power over 12 years ago is blamed for the Tories inadequate approach to climate change. How pathetic. Even if Labour didn't do enough that is no reason for the Tories sitting on their hands.
99
26/11/2020 17:15:44 3 1
bbc
Can't argue with that but it is a bit.... whatabouty don't you think. We don't make progress by comparing the current potential to do too little with the government in power over 10 years ago.
76
26/11/2020 16:19:48 5 3
bbc
The spending review doesn't undermine the Green Vision. Outside of London the car is the ONLY way to get from one place to another and our road network is stuck in the 19th century! Cars just need to run on Hydrogen - no charging points in the sticks for electric cars!
88
26/11/2020 16:49:02 6 1
bbc
Do you have lots of hydrogen filling stations?
102
tux
26/11/2020 17:16:31 2 2
bbc
A hydrogen fuel cell based car is a hybrid car that uses a small battery with an electric motor drivetrain. Battery technology is rapidly improving with vehicle range increasing by about 50 miles each year. The hydrogen fuel cell for cars has already been eliminated (lost the war) because batteries are the better solution. H2 is dead for cars. New Tesla model S has 400 miles range per charge.
176
27/11/2020 09:23:14 1 0
bbc
BEV's and PHEV's remind me of the Betamax vs VHS format, Hydrogen is the CD and DVD challenger, now these are becoming obsolete by on demand and digital format. The same will happen to the car if we create the need to change.
75
26/11/2020 16:18:38 8 12
bbc
And what does that make Labour's then?!
They did absoultely zilch.
77
26/11/2020 16:27:58 8 1
bbc
So, the govt that was last in power over 12 years ago is blamed for the Tories inadequate approach to climate change. How pathetic. Even if Labour didn't do enough that is no reason for the Tories sitting on their hands.
82
26/11/2020 16:34:47 1 7
bbc
"So, the govt that was last in power over 12 years ago is blamed for the Tories"

Really Gordon Brown was a Tory?? ??????????
78
26/11/2020 16:29:22 1 0
bbc
Why are they worried?

Boris gets everything wrong on first attempt then soon does a U Turn.

Same will happen here.
3
26/11/2020 11:02:42 28 8
bbc
If we trained more of every skill, trade and profession we’d do the greatest of services to our young. We’d then be better able to look after those who can’t, for what ever reason, look after themselves. Those who won’t learn, won’t work, won’t contribute and expect to be “carried” should be compulsorily employed by the State to do those tasks that require minimal training in return for benefits.
79
26/11/2020 16:31:17 14 4
bbc
Why does "compulsorily employed" sound like a euphemism for indentured servitude?
222
27/11/2020 14:35:20 0 0
bbc
David Cam said people are better off in work. the people he is referring to, are himself and his business colleagues (the tory party)
36
26/11/2020 13:29:25 9 7
bbc
The ONLY way to be 'green' is to reduce the population. Anyone who thinks otherwise has not properly checked the data. Give child allowance for the first two, tax any after that. Problem solved in about a century (although nature will have done it by then anyway).
80
26/11/2020 16:32:42 1 0
bbc
Hello, the CCP called, they'd like their idea back.
34
26/11/2020 13:22:04 12 8
bbc
"Environment groups are most angry at the roads programme"

We have a Green Party they have precisely one MP, win a general election if you want your agenda enacted...
81
26/11/2020 16:32:48 9 1
bbc
While we wait for the people who believed the lies about Brexit to open their eyes about climate change the planet will become ever harder for humans to live on. We need educated(?) MP's to tale the lead but instead we get bluster and catch phrases (Get Brexit Done) instead of intelligent responses.
77
26/11/2020 16:27:58 8 1
bbc
So, the govt that was last in power over 12 years ago is blamed for the Tories inadequate approach to climate change. How pathetic. Even if Labour didn't do enough that is no reason for the Tories sitting on their hands.
82
26/11/2020 16:34:47 1 7
bbc
"So, the govt that was last in power over 12 years ago is blamed for the Tories"

Really Gordon Brown was a Tory?? ??????????
98
26/11/2020 17:13:14 0 0
bbc
Well....
34
26/11/2020 13:22:04 12 8
bbc
"Environment groups are most angry at the roads programme"

We have a Green Party they have precisely one MP, win a general election if you want your agenda enacted...
83
26/11/2020 16:34:58 4 1
bbc
By percentage of the vote, they should have 17 or 18 seats.
195
27/11/2020 10:45:02 0 0
bbc
17 seats out of 650 seats. aka less than 3%!! So why is the media over hyping the green agenda? Would it be that the BBC is biased.
74
26/11/2020 16:12:55 5 4
bbc
Demand for road space is not infinite, the limiting factor is the number of drivers.
The green lobby seems to assume that there are millions of drivers waiting for the opportunity to drive round in pointless circles when the reality is that they just want to get to an essential destination in the shortest and most efficient fashion.
84
26/11/2020 16:39:39 1 0
bbc
135
26/11/2020 18:56:33 1 2
bbc
The congestion on other roads drops which is always ignored by environmentalists
55
26/11/2020 14:27:23 13 9
bbc
Even electric cars need roads, so the plan to increase road capacity and shorten journey times is perfectly sensible. The green lobby need to be more realistic.
85
26/11/2020 16:40:41 2 5
bbc
"The green lobby need to be more realistic."

Some are, but they get drowned out by the hysterical hypocrites as the media rely on them for clickbait. Green Party said that a frequent flyer was a person who flies more than 4 times. Which is the number of times Caroline Lucas the *only* GreenParty MP flies to the US.

Bypasses can reduce pollution despite what Wikipedia claims ??
95
26/11/2020 17:05:37 2 0
bbc
Please tell me you aren't calling Wikipedia unreliable.
106
26/11/2020 17:27:05 3 0
bbc
A bypass can definitely reduce pollution but take York's outer ring road as a simple example. It meant traffic could literally go around rather than through the city - great! However once the out of town shopping centres opened, it became the road to and from those. Now the bypass is as congested as the rest of the city. We're talking about a concept planners got their head around 80 years ago.
52
26/11/2020 14:11:06 6 2
bbc
If you're not aware of the concepts behind induced demand, here's a bit of reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand#:~:text=Induced%20demand%20is%20demand%20that,%2Dup%22%20as%20latent%20demand.
86
26/11/2020 16:43:56 0 6
bbc
YOU MUST ALL BELIEVE WHAT WIKIPEDEA STATES BECAUSE IT BACKS UP Mr Smith views ????

Or just use some common sense: look there is a faster route hmm perhaps I will use the newer road vs the country lanes.
109
26/11/2020 17:35:14 4 0
bbc
Oh Hai Grumps.... Thanks for that constructive contribution to the debate. There are definitely going to be places where new roads make sense but unless you have some insights that contradict what planners have found over the last 80 years, the issues with induced demand very much come to the fore.
42
26/11/2020 13:46:10 10 2
bbc
Indeed, and if the proposal was to add dedicated cycling or bus infrastructure, maybe some routes that can only be used by EVs (though I wouldn't advocate that) it might have legs, but this will merely result in more driving because of induced demand.
87
26/11/2020 16:46:51 1 6
bbc
One route I used had consistent traffic congestion. Other than when the buses didnt run the route due to a strike.

Buses dont automatically reduce congestion, they can add to it. But that would spoil your little monologue on private bad, public transport good??

The answer you really struggle with is "it depends"
117
26/11/2020 17:54:31 4 0
bbc
Hey Grumpo - really living up to your name today. Thanks for underlying my point though. If you add infrastructure dedicated to buses, cycling, whatever, the bonus is you take that traffic off the otherwise congested roads so you stop getting held up by the buses stopping :)
76
26/11/2020 16:19:48 5 3
bbc
The spending review doesn't undermine the Green Vision. Outside of London the car is the ONLY way to get from one place to another and our road network is stuck in the 19th century! Cars just need to run on Hydrogen - no charging points in the sticks for electric cars!
88
26/11/2020 16:49:02 6 1
bbc
Do you have lots of hydrogen filling stations?
47
26/11/2020 13:54:43 3 0
bbc
Any appropriate peer reviewed work you can point to about this?
89
26/11/2020 16:51:20 0 5
bbc
I know you struggle with any idea that is contrary to you. Try XR boasting how billions were going die, or their various eco-alarmists that post links to very selective articles that claim Exeter will be in danger from flooding by 2030. As if its 8m above sealevel.

Notice you never question the validity of the research that backs up your own view. Why would that be, baaa????
110
26/11/2020 17:39:23 1 0
bbc
Thanks Grumps... I'll take that as a "no" then.
66
26/11/2020 15:31:25 3 1
bbc
The national grid don't seem to share your concerns, but what do they know.
90
26/11/2020 16:52:42 0 2
bbc
Got a peer reviewed paper for hat? You seem to always want one when someone even suggests an opinion that goes against your "world" view.
103
26/11/2020 17:22:40 1 0
bbc
I can make you a hat if you like. It's worth stating there's no suggestion there isn't work to do, just no fear of the "meltdown" that's often talked about, largely this comes down to diversity. Lots of information linked from here. https://www.nationalgrid.com/uk/stories/journey-to-net-zero-stories/eso-future-energy-scenarios-next-30-years
57
26/11/2020 14:38:57 9 0
bbc
That stupendous plan already existed before Beeching.. ALL ripped out to save a quid !!

Now we need it it's GONE !!
91
26/11/2020 16:53:35 1 5
bbc
And what was the population back then. Ever heard of context?
94
26/11/2020 17:03:32 6 0
bbc
Oh, right, because clearly the population in 1963 was lower than it was in the 19th century when all the stations and lines were constructed.
127
26/11/2020 18:37:47 3 1
bbc
Ah yes context

1963 Beeching Report Comes out pop. UK 53.5m

Cuts made 2363 stations closed, 5500miles of track ripped up & 67,000 jobs lost.. Completed by end 1969.

1969 pop. UK 55.34 million..

2020 pop. UK 67.88 million.. Current cost of HS" to increase capacity £120bn.

CONTEXT !
26
26/11/2020 12:31:28 4 6
bbc
As opposed to believing the hype & promoting opinions as facts.

The IPCC reports do not forecast that the sealevel will kill billions, or the sealevel will drown Paris, London etc by the end of this century. There is a more scientific based stance to take about AGW which the BBC & Roger Hasbin dont promote.
92
26/11/2020 16:59:53 1 0
bbc
Really, how bad could the sea levels rising be? It's not like there are any Lowlands just across the English Channel which have a history of being flooded!
100
26/11/2020 17:16:07 0 1
bbc
@Anarcho-Totalitarian So how high do you think the sealevel is going to rise around the UK? Try the IPCC reports rather than Wiki

Many places I know by the coast have already put in adequate mitigation. So do you think that because a place has had a history of flooding it should now be protected regardless of the ecological damage that might have?
32
26/11/2020 13:14:51 21 4
bbc
The only alternative to improving roads is gradually nationalising the bus and train services, stop private companies charging a fortune for regular travel.

Because £3000+ for an annual ticket is BS you could buy and run a small second hand car for that. And so ... people do, resulting in fewer customers for the rail companies, meaning higher prices to keep the shareholders happy, Ad infinitum.
93
26/11/2020 17:02:47 12 8
bbc
Building more roads is totally consistent with a policy of promoting green transport and banning sales of ICE.

Public transport is proven to be costly and inflexible. It works only in large urban areas where passenger volumes justify the frequency of services.
133
26/11/2020 18:48:19 3 0
bbc
Maybe we should just ban city dwellers from owning or driving cars, allowing all us rural folk to have empty roads.
167
27/11/2020 07:00:42 2 0
bbc
Public transport was, once upon a time, relatively cheap and effective, with networks to enable many people to use and even enjoy it. So it may be helpful to examine what changed to see if the clock be turned back.
91
26/11/2020 16:53:35 1 5
bbc
And what was the population back then. Ever heard of context?
94
26/11/2020 17:03:32 6 0
bbc
Oh, right, because clearly the population in 1963 was lower than it was in the 19th century when all the stations and lines were constructed.
85
26/11/2020 16:40:41 2 5
bbc
"The green lobby need to be more realistic."

Some are, but they get drowned out by the hysterical hypocrites as the media rely on them for clickbait. Green Party said that a frequent flyer was a person who flies more than 4 times. Which is the number of times Caroline Lucas the *only* GreenParty MP flies to the US.

Bypasses can reduce pollution despite what Wikipedia claims ??
95
26/11/2020 17:05:37 2 0
bbc
Please tell me you aren't calling Wikipedia unreliable.
54
26/11/2020 14:18:46 31 4
bbc
I suspect the biggest issue most people have with roads is their condition. Rather than build more, perhaps fix the infrastructure we already have. If you actually want to improve transport efficiency, given road use pricing is almost inevitable, time of use pricing should be trialed. Reduce demand by providing an incentive to flatten the demand peak. Building more roads will do the opposite.
96
26/11/2020 17:08:03 7 4
bbc
How the hell do you "reduce demand by providing an incentive to flatten the demand peak" when you have to be at work on time?
113
26/11/2020 17:46:50 5 0
bbc
The only way governments know, tax, legislate or nudge theory
What I'm more interested in knowing, is who said every single adult person needs or should be "productive", given the levels of advancement. We seem to be stuck in a dogma, an insane economic value system which seems hellbent on infinite growth. The sad reality is, nations are competing AGAINST nations, it is a race to the bottom
116
26/11/2020 17:49:38 6 1
bbc
For sure you might have fixed time slots to hit but many people can choose to travel earlier, flexi-time is pretty common. a colleague favours starting work an hour before the rest of us to beat the traffic, maybe you hit the gym after work to avoid the road home at the expensive time. Appropriate pricing of the limited resource (road capacity) at peak demand will drive changes in behaviour.
35
26/11/2020 13:24:51 4 2
bbc
The academic led "greenie vision of everything" that effects everyone else is going to become a myth.
Next year if Corvid21 raises its head, those of us that are left are really are going to find out, what the cost of this virus is.
97
26/11/2020 17:09:27 1 0
bbc
Is Corvid21 a sci-fi raven?
82
26/11/2020 16:34:47 1 7
bbc
"So, the govt that was last in power over 12 years ago is blamed for the Tories"

Really Gordon Brown was a Tory?? ??????????
98
26/11/2020 17:13:14 0 0
bbc
Well....
75
26/11/2020 16:18:38 8 12
bbc
And what does that make Labour's then?!
They did absoultely zilch.
99
26/11/2020 17:15:44 3 1
bbc
Can't argue with that but it is a bit.... whatabouty don't you think. We don't make progress by comparing the current potential to do too little with the government in power over 10 years ago.
92
26/11/2020 16:59:53 1 0
bbc
Really, how bad could the sea levels rising be? It's not like there are any Lowlands just across the English Channel which have a history of being flooded!
100
26/11/2020 17:16:07 0 1
bbc
@Anarcho-Totalitarian So how high do you think the sealevel is going to rise around the UK? Try the IPCC reports rather than Wiki

Many places I know by the coast have already put in adequate mitigation. So do you think that because a place has had a history of flooding it should now be protected regardless of the ecological damage that might have?
126
26/11/2020 18:15:08 0 0
bbc
I was talking about the Netherlands. And my sources that the sea level will rise is this: https://www.climatechangepost.com/netherlands/coastal-floods/
Also, I would advise that you watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLqXkYrdmjY&t=1s and read rel="ugc nofollow noopener noreferrer" this: https://xkcd.com/1732/