Gigabit broadband: Watered-down plans a 'kick in the teeth'
25/11/2020 | news | technology | 87
Now the aim is to reach 85% of homes in the UK with gigabit broadband speeds by 2025.
1
26/11/2020 12:49:29 3 1
bbc
Here is the problem rural, rural, rural area are difficult to get to, and small numbers of people, Money dictates who gets the best first and then works down until the government stops funding...

used to live in an area years ago where you could get broadband 16 meg or 8 meg line, the majority would not pay the extra for the 16 meg line, people really want just enough at the lowest cost, yet moan
3
26/11/2020 13:21:47 2 0
bbc
Cost of electronics usually falls, but the cost of digging in cable doesn't.

For that reason 5G (& later 6G, etc.) may be more of a contender in rural areas where it's lack of capacity (because frequency spectrum is shared & limited) is less of an issue. I suspect that is one reason why BT wanted to have a mobile licence & then bought more of it (with EE) & more recently VM looked to buy up O2.
10
26/11/2020 14:07:20 1 0
bbc
Starlink will solve the extreme rural problem. The are already people testing the dish and they're achieving 100mbit plus in both directions, which is more than enough for most people. There are a few reviews worth watching on YouTube
2
26/11/2020 13:20:38 1 2
bbc
Maybe the picture has the solution. A tractor buries a cable with a set of telephone poles behind it. Surely using existing infrastructure wold be cheaper than digging trenches all over the country?
5
26/11/2020 13:34:39 6 0
bbc
What do you mean, that is what is already happening. Even done that way it remains very expensive per cable metre.

The poles you can see in the pic look like they are carrying electric cables not telecommunications. Besides it's a Getty stock picture, the "cable" being laid may not be for telecommunications either. A picture may tell a 1000 words, but it might be just as (or more) misleading.
1
26/11/2020 12:49:29 3 1
bbc
Here is the problem rural, rural, rural area are difficult to get to, and small numbers of people, Money dictates who gets the best first and then works down until the government stops funding...

used to live in an area years ago where you could get broadband 16 meg or 8 meg line, the majority would not pay the extra for the 16 meg line, people really want just enough at the lowest cost, yet moan
3
26/11/2020 13:21:47 2 0
bbc
Cost of electronics usually falls, but the cost of digging in cable doesn't.

For that reason 5G (& later 6G, etc.) may be more of a contender in rural areas where it's lack of capacity (because frequency spectrum is shared & limited) is less of an issue. I suspect that is one reason why BT wanted to have a mobile licence & then bought more of it (with EE) & more recently VM looked to buy up O2.
4
26/11/2020 13:29:53 7 4
bbc
Hard fact is, if you want the best of any services (not just broadband), don't live/work in the middle of nowhere. Or if a nice view really is your highest priority, you need to accept that you'll never enjoy the same level of service that you would in a city.
12
26/11/2020 14:11:30 9 2
bbc
You do realise that not everyone out in the country moved there by choice?

But that't mean you couldn't be all smug and superior about people with nice views, wouldn't it?
46
26/11/2020 17:24:05 4 0
bbc
I was born here, in the backend of nowhere, went to school here, my family & friends are here. I do accept that we'll probably never have traffic lights, streetlights, theatres or large sports stadia within 30 miles... & I'm glad of it. But we're getting priced out by folks like you buying houses with city wages, a pretty view is what attracts the likes of you, not what keeps us locals here.
2
26/11/2020 13:20:38 1 2
bbc
Maybe the picture has the solution. A tractor buries a cable with a set of telephone poles behind it. Surely using existing infrastructure wold be cheaper than digging trenches all over the country?
5
26/11/2020 13:34:39 6 0
bbc
What do you mean, that is what is already happening. Even done that way it remains very expensive per cable metre.

The poles you can see in the pic look like they are carrying electric cables not telecommunications. Besides it's a Getty stock picture, the "cable" being laid may not be for telecommunications either. A picture may tell a 1000 words, but it might be just as (or more) misleading.
6
26/11/2020 13:43:39 5 0
bbc
I'm in remote West Cornwall, I don't see this happening within the next ten years.
8
26/11/2020 13:52:40 3 1
bbc
All of Cornwall is West & remote to everyone else in the UK, except those living in Cornwall. LOL

Not alone, your fate is shared by those in all the remote and rural areas of the UK.
9
Jay
26/11/2020 14:03:47 2 0
bbc
Like Wales, Cornwall had a decent broadband project and investment. You'll probably have it before some far more urban areas.
7
26/11/2020 13:51:31 14 3
bbc
Why, why, are installations happening today of old technology? Virgin Media for example still installing Coaxial cable into homes, as we speak! Surely ANY new comms installation should be fibre only.

At the same time BT just bringing FTTC closer to the home but actual FTTP is still super rare.

Also VM's idea of gigabit being 1000Mbps down and 50Mbps up is NOT true gigabit broadband.

Farcical.
11
26/11/2020 14:08:38 6 1
bbc
Since when is Coax old technology. Its capable of multi-gigabit speed now, in fact VM have just released there 1Gb packages to their customers.
14
Bob
26/11/2020 14:17:57 3 1
bbc
1. Openreach installs full fibre by default and has done for a couple of years now. And that is done free of charge if the development is over 20 dwellings.
2. Virgin is capable of full fibre speeds. Like all residential connections upload is gimped - if you need more, and not sure why a consumer would, get a business line.
15
26/11/2020 14:25:56 2 1
bbc
Virgin will happliy sell you a business package, if you need more than 50Mbps upload speed, but that would ruin your moan, wouldn't it?
6
26/11/2020 13:43:39 5 0
bbc
I'm in remote West Cornwall, I don't see this happening within the next ten years.
8
26/11/2020 13:52:40 3 1
bbc
All of Cornwall is West & remote to everyone else in the UK, except those living in Cornwall. LOL

Not alone, your fate is shared by those in all the remote and rural areas of the UK.
6
26/11/2020 13:43:39 5 0
bbc
I'm in remote West Cornwall, I don't see this happening within the next ten years.
9
Jay
26/11/2020 14:03:47 2 0
bbc
Like Wales, Cornwall had a decent broadband project and investment. You'll probably have it before some far more urban areas.
1
26/11/2020 12:49:29 3 1
bbc
Here is the problem rural, rural, rural area are difficult to get to, and small numbers of people, Money dictates who gets the best first and then works down until the government stops funding...

used to live in an area years ago where you could get broadband 16 meg or 8 meg line, the majority would not pay the extra for the 16 meg line, people really want just enough at the lowest cost, yet moan
10
26/11/2020 14:07:20 1 0
bbc
Starlink will solve the extreme rural problem. The are already people testing the dish and they're achieving 100mbit plus in both directions, which is more than enough for most people. There are a few reviews worth watching on YouTube
7
26/11/2020 13:51:31 14 3
bbc
Why, why, are installations happening today of old technology? Virgin Media for example still installing Coaxial cable into homes, as we speak! Surely ANY new comms installation should be fibre only.

At the same time BT just bringing FTTC closer to the home but actual FTTP is still super rare.

Also VM's idea of gigabit being 1000Mbps down and 50Mbps up is NOT true gigabit broadband.

Farcical.
11
26/11/2020 14:08:38 6 1
bbc
Since when is Coax old technology. Its capable of multi-gigabit speed now, in fact VM have just released there 1Gb packages to their customers.
16
26/11/2020 14:28:59 3 1
bbc
"Since when is Coax old"? How do I even respond? It's the OLDEST comms cable technology ever used. It is copper, ie. not the fastest, and not guaranteed free of interference like fibre is.

Yes they are providing gigabit in one direction, so not true gigabit.
4
26/11/2020 13:29:53 7 4
bbc
Hard fact is, if you want the best of any services (not just broadband), don't live/work in the middle of nowhere. Or if a nice view really is your highest priority, you need to accept that you'll never enjoy the same level of service that you would in a city.
12
26/11/2020 14:11:30 9 2
bbc
You do realise that not everyone out in the country moved there by choice?

But that't mean you couldn't be all smug and superior about people with nice views, wouldn't it?
24
26/11/2020 14:58:08 3 0
bbc
Quite - No point anyone telling me that I should have thought about this before choosing where to live, as when we moved to the country (really remote...in the centre of Southern England!) there was no mobile phone network and no Internet, but there was a job.
72
27/11/2020 09:38:13 0 0
bbc
What, people are being forced to live or remain in rural areas? They made a choice to move or remain, it may not have been ideal or what they wanted to do but to claim they had no choice is nonsense.
13
26/11/2020 14:15:31 2 1
bbc
Keep an eye on Starlink. Its only in Beta phase in parts of North America for the moment - but that will change. It'll be somewhat expensive, but far short of the eye watering amounts OpenReach are charging to link up unprofitable communities.
7
26/11/2020 13:51:31 14 3
bbc
Why, why, are installations happening today of old technology? Virgin Media for example still installing Coaxial cable into homes, as we speak! Surely ANY new comms installation should be fibre only.

At the same time BT just bringing FTTC closer to the home but actual FTTP is still super rare.

Also VM's idea of gigabit being 1000Mbps down and 50Mbps up is NOT true gigabit broadband.

Farcical.
14
Bob
26/11/2020 14:17:57 3 1
bbc
1. Openreach installs full fibre by default and has done for a couple of years now. And that is done free of charge if the development is over 20 dwellings.
2. Virgin is capable of full fibre speeds. Like all residential connections upload is gimped - if you need more, and not sure why a consumer would, get a business line.
7
26/11/2020 13:51:31 14 3
bbc
Why, why, are installations happening today of old technology? Virgin Media for example still installing Coaxial cable into homes, as we speak! Surely ANY new comms installation should be fibre only.

At the same time BT just bringing FTTC closer to the home but actual FTTP is still super rare.

Also VM's idea of gigabit being 1000Mbps down and 50Mbps up is NOT true gigabit broadband.

Farcical.
15
26/11/2020 14:25:56 2 1
bbc
Virgin will happliy sell you a business package, if you need more than 50Mbps upload speed, but that would ruin your moan, wouldn't it?
18
26/11/2020 14:33:53 1 1
bbc
They will sell you a LEASED LINE, which is a completely new installation, to achieve more than 50Mbps. That is not the same as them selling you a package on their widely available network. We are also talking about fibre to the home, not businesses.

VM's gigabit isn't even gigabit because the provided hub can't handle it.

Companies such as Hyperoptic or community fibre do true gigabit services.
11
26/11/2020 14:08:38 6 1
bbc
Since when is Coax old technology. Its capable of multi-gigabit speed now, in fact VM have just released there 1Gb packages to their customers.
16
26/11/2020 14:28:59 3 1
bbc
"Since when is Coax old"? How do I even respond? It's the OLDEST comms cable technology ever used. It is copper, ie. not the fastest, and not guaranteed free of interference like fibre is.

Yes they are providing gigabit in one direction, so not true gigabit.
21
26/11/2020 14:40:08 2 1
bbc
And the laws of physics that coax uses wear out over time, do they?

And the reason consumer links are so cheap for download is because they are asymmetric - if you need the upload speed, you can get a business line, but the major providers will twist your wallet until it screams for that for normal home use...
27
26/11/2020 15:27:06 0 0
bbc
Not really, just uses the same material (copper). It was introduced to carry RF signals (so in the era of TV & Radar) long after copper cables pairs were first used for telephony & telegraphy. Agreed it's not state of the art modern, but it was more adequate for Cable TV and operators (like telecom counterparts) could not justify the cost of replacing it all with fibre.
34
26/11/2020 15:48:48 1 0
bbc
Old doesnt make it bad. It is just reliable. It can provide multi-gigabit (10+Gb) speed (with the right equipment). Whereas fibre is by its nature fragile and suseptible to breaking a lot easier than any coax line will.
17
26/11/2020 14:31:16 4 8
bbc
MEANWHILE CHINA HAS LAUNCHES 6G WHICH IS 100 TIMES FASTER THAN 5G

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-china-54852131

THANKS TO THE UK BOWING DOWN TH THE US GOV AND TECH LOBBYISTS WHO WANT NO COMPEITIOTN AND WOULD RATHER GIVE THE UK A RIP OFF US VERSION OF 5G LOADED WITH BACKDOORS.

Lets not forget about the Edward snowden revelations and the U.S global data spy programme.
23
26/11/2020 14:53:59 5 0
bbc
Available throughout China with capacity for about 90% of the population in each area? If not, it's only window dressing.
36
26/11/2020 15:52:40 2 0
bbc
Given that 6G is not even a standard yet and is years away from ratification it is just an experiment.
15
26/11/2020 14:25:56 2 1
bbc
Virgin will happliy sell you a business package, if you need more than 50Mbps upload speed, but that would ruin your moan, wouldn't it?
18
26/11/2020 14:33:53 1 1
bbc
They will sell you a LEASED LINE, which is a completely new installation, to achieve more than 50Mbps. That is not the same as them selling you a package on their widely available network. We are also talking about fibre to the home, not businesses.

VM's gigabit isn't even gigabit because the provided hub can't handle it.

Companies such as Hyperoptic or community fibre do true gigabit services.
41
26/11/2020 16:21:47 0 1
bbc
What on earth do you need Gigabit upload for, for home use?

On second thoughts, maybe I don't -want- to know...

And Hyperoptic don't appear from their site to have anyone connected within several miles of me, in the heart of the Black Country. But isn't that where we came in?
62
26/11/2020 22:37:26 0 0
bbc
here here.. I asked for a leased line quote recently to my premises (work from home office), anything reasonable, required at least £6-8k installation costs.. I opted for VM gig. I get roughly 750mpbs down, but the up speed which I need the most is 52mbps.. our office in Spain pays about £50 a month and gets gig down & gig up and for an additional £15 they get an SDSL backup line @ 100mbps !
MEANWHILE WE SEND £10,000,000,000 to SOME OF THE MOST CORRUPT COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD.

SOMALIA, NIGERIA, PAKISTAN (HAS MONEY FOR ILLEGAL NUKES BUT NOT FOOD)

PATHETIC!!!!

IM A BRITISH TAX PAYER WHO PAYS TAXES FOR THE BENEFIT OF HIS OWN COUNTRY.

THAT £10,000,000,000 COULD BE USED FOR 5G AND OTHER HIGH TECH PROGRAMMES.
Removed
20
26/11/2020 14:34:59 10 2
bbc
Most homes have no need of gigabit yet so why not finish getting reasonable speeds to everyone including those hard to reach areas with a basic 50Mb so they everyone can access services. Nothing worse than watching the rest of the country get gigabit when you are struggling on a <2Mb line.
22
26/11/2020 14:50:39 2 1
bbc
Nice idea but it doesn't really work that way. There are distinct breakpoints depending on line type All Copper & xDSL (lowest), FTTC [mix of copper + fibre] (medium) & FTTP (highest). It would need to be at least FTTC for 50Mb and still probably a no no in many rural areas because of cabinet distance to homes.

If it was easy and cheap, it would have already been done.
16
26/11/2020 14:28:59 3 1
bbc
"Since when is Coax old"? How do I even respond? It's the OLDEST comms cable technology ever used. It is copper, ie. not the fastest, and not guaranteed free of interference like fibre is.

Yes they are providing gigabit in one direction, so not true gigabit.
21
26/11/2020 14:40:08 2 1
bbc
And the laws of physics that coax uses wear out over time, do they?

And the reason consumer links are so cheap for download is because they are asymmetric - if you need the upload speed, you can get a business line, but the major providers will twist your wallet until it screams for that for normal home use...
20
26/11/2020 14:34:59 10 2
bbc
Most homes have no need of gigabit yet so why not finish getting reasonable speeds to everyone including those hard to reach areas with a basic 50Mb so they everyone can access services. Nothing worse than watching the rest of the country get gigabit when you are struggling on a <2Mb line.
22
26/11/2020 14:50:39 2 1
bbc
Nice idea but it doesn't really work that way. There are distinct breakpoints depending on line type All Copper & xDSL (lowest), FTTC [mix of copper + fibre] (medium) & FTTP (highest). It would need to be at least FTTC for 50Mb and still probably a no no in many rural areas because of cabinet distance to homes.

If it was easy and cheap, it would have already been done.
35
26/11/2020 15:50:19 2 0
bbc
The entire backbone of the country effectively needs to be replaced with fibre, even if it's on a rolling basis over several decades.
17
26/11/2020 14:31:16 4 8
bbc
MEANWHILE CHINA HAS LAUNCHES 6G WHICH IS 100 TIMES FASTER THAN 5G

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-china-54852131

THANKS TO THE UK BOWING DOWN TH THE US GOV AND TECH LOBBYISTS WHO WANT NO COMPEITIOTN AND WOULD RATHER GIVE THE UK A RIP OFF US VERSION OF 5G LOADED WITH BACKDOORS.

Lets not forget about the Edward snowden revelations and the U.S global data spy programme.
23
26/11/2020 14:53:59 5 0
bbc
Available throughout China with capacity for about 90% of the population in each area? If not, it's only window dressing.
12
26/11/2020 14:11:30 9 2
bbc
You do realise that not everyone out in the country moved there by choice?

But that't mean you couldn't be all smug and superior about people with nice views, wouldn't it?
24
26/11/2020 14:58:08 3 0
bbc
Quite - No point anyone telling me that I should have thought about this before choosing where to live, as when we moved to the country (really remote...in the centre of Southern England!) there was no mobile phone network and no Internet, but there was a job.
25
26/11/2020 15:18:19 5 0
bbc
If the government is truly concerned with getting people off the roads and supporting home workers, then get some money back from HS2. £100bn - surely that is now a misplaced investment given the lower demand going forward for public transport. We need fibre everywhere if we expect people to work from home. Copper is just not as reliable as fibre - it's a fact.
29
26/11/2020 15:34:57 5 3
bbc
Actually, they're both incredibly reliable statistically speaking (but there is a lot more copper lines, still, so it may not seem so), although fibre is probably better, but not by as much as you may think. Both are just as dead when a JCB (or similar) cuts through them.
31
26/11/2020 15:42:52 3 0
bbc
Agree with you about HS2, better to invest in more fibre rollout than a single high speed rail link. Even spreading the money around on the entire rail network makes more sense than HS2.
26
26/11/2020 15:24:45 2 1
bbc
Not all households require faster broadband, especially the older generation and are we saying shopping will be on-line only, I don't think so there will always room for the specialist and smaller shops to co-exist with the online retailers.
39
26/11/2020 16:17:50 2 0
bbc
Well I'm retired, and I don't want to have to wait even longer when my PC decides it is time to update Windoze 10 - admittedly that's the only thing that regularly maxes out my 230Mb connection, but stilll...
16
26/11/2020 14:28:59 3 1
bbc
"Since when is Coax old"? How do I even respond? It's the OLDEST comms cable technology ever used. It is copper, ie. not the fastest, and not guaranteed free of interference like fibre is.

Yes they are providing gigabit in one direction, so not true gigabit.
27
26/11/2020 15:27:06 0 0
bbc
Not really, just uses the same material (copper). It was introduced to carry RF signals (so in the era of TV & Radar) long after copper cables pairs were first used for telephony & telegraphy. Agreed it's not state of the art modern, but it was more adequate for Cable TV and operators (like telecom counterparts) could not justify the cost of replacing it all with fibre.
33
26/11/2020 15:47:41 1 0
bbc
Yeah replacing it all is obviously expensive and ought to be done when it's due for end of life anyway, but the question is why new installations are still not fibre to the premises. They're limiting future potential by not installing fibre (the fibre itself isn't what limits the speed to gigabit, in fact you can get 10gb down the very same line unlike copper). Who knows what future apps might be.
28
26/11/2020 15:32:55 1 7
bbc
gigabit broadband just so you can be (shadow) censored on whatever website you visit
30
26/11/2020 15:40:12 7 2
bbc
If you think consumer gigabit is required for that to be possible, you've been deluding yourself.
25
26/11/2020 15:18:19 5 0
bbc
If the government is truly concerned with getting people off the roads and supporting home workers, then get some money back from HS2. £100bn - surely that is now a misplaced investment given the lower demand going forward for public transport. We need fibre everywhere if we expect people to work from home. Copper is just not as reliable as fibre - it's a fact.
29
26/11/2020 15:34:57 5 3
bbc
Actually, they're both incredibly reliable statistically speaking (but there is a lot more copper lines, still, so it may not seem so), although fibre is probably better, but not by as much as you may think. Both are just as dead when a JCB (or similar) cuts through them.
28
26/11/2020 15:32:55 1 7
bbc
gigabit broadband just so you can be (shadow) censored on whatever website you visit
30
26/11/2020 15:40:12 7 2
bbc
If you think consumer gigabit is required for that to be possible, you've been deluding yourself.
38
26/11/2020 16:09:16 1 0
bbc
mm.
25
26/11/2020 15:18:19 5 0
bbc
If the government is truly concerned with getting people off the roads and supporting home workers, then get some money back from HS2. £100bn - surely that is now a misplaced investment given the lower demand going forward for public transport. We need fibre everywhere if we expect people to work from home. Copper is just not as reliable as fibre - it's a fact.
31
26/11/2020 15:42:52 3 0
bbc
Agree with you about HS2, better to invest in more fibre rollout than a single high speed rail link. Even spreading the money around on the entire rail network makes more sense than HS2.
32
26/11/2020 15:45:31 3 2
bbc
Don't forget the Govt doesn't do any of this as all new broadband is supplied by private sector, commercial companies and if they don't want to do it for any reason then they won't. Govts only set targets but commercial companies decide what and when installation occurs.
27
26/11/2020 15:27:06 0 0
bbc
Not really, just uses the same material (copper). It was introduced to carry RF signals (so in the era of TV & Radar) long after copper cables pairs were first used for telephony & telegraphy. Agreed it's not state of the art modern, but it was more adequate for Cable TV and operators (like telecom counterparts) could not justify the cost of replacing it all with fibre.
33
26/11/2020 15:47:41 1 0
bbc
Yeah replacing it all is obviously expensive and ought to be done when it's due for end of life anyway, but the question is why new installations are still not fibre to the premises. They're limiting future potential by not installing fibre (the fibre itself isn't what limits the speed to gigabit, in fact you can get 10gb down the very same line unlike copper). Who knows what future apps might be.
42
26/11/2020 16:24:22 0 0
bbc
I think that's been answered already by "Bob" (above) at least by Openreach. Undoubtable, technically it could certainly have been started sooner, but when you have bean-counters and politicians calling the shots...
16
26/11/2020 14:28:59 3 1
bbc
"Since when is Coax old"? How do I even respond? It's the OLDEST comms cable technology ever used. It is copper, ie. not the fastest, and not guaranteed free of interference like fibre is.

Yes they are providing gigabit in one direction, so not true gigabit.
34
26/11/2020 15:48:48 1 0
bbc
Old doesnt make it bad. It is just reliable. It can provide multi-gigabit (10+Gb) speed (with the right equipment). Whereas fibre is by its nature fragile and suseptible to breaking a lot easier than any coax line will.
43
26/11/2020 16:33:38 2 0
bbc
Physically, yes and don't forget many cables of all types will be armoured anyway. However fibre will not suffer from water damage including oxidisation (more so on Aluminium), dry joints (mainly Copper), nor crosstalk or electric field induced noise. Both are highly reliable, until some idiot sticks a JCB into them.
22
26/11/2020 14:50:39 2 1
bbc
Nice idea but it doesn't really work that way. There are distinct breakpoints depending on line type All Copper & xDSL (lowest), FTTC [mix of copper + fibre] (medium) & FTTP (highest). It would need to be at least FTTC for 50Mb and still probably a no no in many rural areas because of cabinet distance to homes.

If it was easy and cheap, it would have already been done.
35
26/11/2020 15:50:19 2 0
bbc
The entire backbone of the country effectively needs to be replaced with fibre, even if it's on a rolling basis over several decades.
40
26/11/2020 16:18:35 1 0
bbc
I think you'll find that's being going on for years, even decades. It's comparatively cheap & easy to do & the benefits are massive; it's certainly required if you have fibre at the edges (i.e. consumer lines), which is where the cost/benefit is more difficult to achieve. Fibre has been around, at least in the research labs since the early 70s & already being trialled by the mid 70s (in the UK).
17
26/11/2020 14:31:16 4 8
bbc
MEANWHILE CHINA HAS LAUNCHES 6G WHICH IS 100 TIMES FASTER THAN 5G

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-china-54852131

THANKS TO THE UK BOWING DOWN TH THE US GOV AND TECH LOBBYISTS WHO WANT NO COMPEITIOTN AND WOULD RATHER GIVE THE UK A RIP OFF US VERSION OF 5G LOADED WITH BACKDOORS.

Lets not forget about the Edward snowden revelations and the U.S global data spy programme.
36
26/11/2020 15:52:40 2 0
bbc
Given that 6G is not even a standard yet and is years away from ratification it is just an experiment.
37
26/11/2020 15:53:40 3 0
bbc
Why is there this continual perception that it’s only those in rural areas that struggle to access decent broadband. I get 2Mb down and Outreach quoted me £21k under the Universal Service Obligation to get a better connection!
71
27/11/2020 09:23:59 0 0
bbc
We know it isn't but it's certainly a minority in cities but the majority (if not all) in rural who cannot get faster BB.
30
26/11/2020 15:40:12 7 2
bbc
If you think consumer gigabit is required for that to be possible, you've been deluding yourself.
38
26/11/2020 16:09:16 1 0
bbc
mm.
26
26/11/2020 15:24:45 2 1
bbc
Not all households require faster broadband, especially the older generation and are we saying shopping will be on-line only, I don't think so there will always room for the specialist and smaller shops to co-exist with the online retailers.
39
26/11/2020 16:17:50 2 0
bbc
Well I'm retired, and I don't want to have to wait even longer when my PC decides it is time to update Windoze 10 - admittedly that's the only thing that regularly maxes out my 230Mb connection, but stilll...
35
26/11/2020 15:50:19 2 0
bbc
The entire backbone of the country effectively needs to be replaced with fibre, even if it's on a rolling basis over several decades.
40
26/11/2020 16:18:35 1 0
bbc
I think you'll find that's being going on for years, even decades. It's comparatively cheap & easy to do & the benefits are massive; it's certainly required if you have fibre at the edges (i.e. consumer lines), which is where the cost/benefit is more difficult to achieve. Fibre has been around, at least in the research labs since the early 70s & already being trialled by the mid 70s (in the UK).
18
26/11/2020 14:33:53 1 1
bbc
They will sell you a LEASED LINE, which is a completely new installation, to achieve more than 50Mbps. That is not the same as them selling you a package on their widely available network. We are also talking about fibre to the home, not businesses.

VM's gigabit isn't even gigabit because the provided hub can't handle it.

Companies such as Hyperoptic or community fibre do true gigabit services.
41
26/11/2020 16:21:47 0 1
bbc
What on earth do you need Gigabit upload for, for home use?

On second thoughts, maybe I don't -want- to know...

And Hyperoptic don't appear from their site to have anyone connected within several miles of me, in the heart of the Black Country. But isn't that where we came in?
52
26/11/2020 19:00:25 1 0
bbc
What on earth do you need more than 100Mbps download speed for? That'll happily stream 3+ 4K streams simultaneously. You already know, it's for the convenience of getting things done faster.

Why bother with 1Gbps when you can get by happily on 30Mbps?

Maybe you oft want to send 4K home or your drone videos to friends? Not everyone is simply a zombified consumer, there are hobbyists too.
33
26/11/2020 15:47:41 1 0
bbc
Yeah replacing it all is obviously expensive and ought to be done when it's due for end of life anyway, but the question is why new installations are still not fibre to the premises. They're limiting future potential by not installing fibre (the fibre itself isn't what limits the speed to gigabit, in fact you can get 10gb down the very same line unlike copper). Who knows what future apps might be.
42
26/11/2020 16:24:22 0 0
bbc
I think that's been answered already by "Bob" (above) at least by Openreach. Undoubtable, technically it could certainly have been started sooner, but when you have bean-counters and politicians calling the shots...
50
Bob
26/11/2020 18:50:28 0 1
bbc
Yes it was answered by me, and funny they never replied to my comment but replied to every other comment calling him out and yet still repeats the false claim.

Clearly they don't have a comeback for their fake news.
34
26/11/2020 15:48:48 1 0
bbc
Old doesnt make it bad. It is just reliable. It can provide multi-gigabit (10+Gb) speed (with the right equipment). Whereas fibre is by its nature fragile and suseptible to breaking a lot easier than any coax line will.
43
26/11/2020 16:33:38 2 0
bbc
Physically, yes and don't forget many cables of all types will be armoured anyway. However fibre will not suffer from water damage including oxidisation (more so on Aluminium), dry joints (mainly Copper), nor crosstalk or electric field induced noise. Both are highly reliable, until some idiot sticks a JCB into them.
44
26/11/2020 17:05:32 7 0
bbc
This was always an ambitious target - so it's not remotely surprising to see it watered down, and Covid is the perfect excuse.

Shame though - you might have thought that all the dodgy Zoom calls and dropped connections during lockdown might have made it obvious how poor our IT infrastructure is in this country - and how worthwhile it would be to improve it.

Apparently not.
45
26/11/2020 17:15:36 5 0
bbc
"struggling with speeds below 30 Mbps"... I'd love to get speeds as fast as that! Yes, I could choose to go & live in a city & earn city wages, but I've always lived here, I run a business here & support the local shops & Post Office. Internet speeds of >5Mbps would greatly help my business, I don't need gigabit speeds, just enough to be able to upload & download HiDef photos would be nice.
75
27/11/2020 10:47:36 0 2
bbc
"struggling with speeds below 30 Mbps...." sums up what a load of 1st world whingers we are. One might struggle to breath, eat, keep warm, walk, etc. Nobody struggles because they have less than 30Mbps BB.
4
26/11/2020 13:29:53 7 4
bbc
Hard fact is, if you want the best of any services (not just broadband), don't live/work in the middle of nowhere. Or if a nice view really is your highest priority, you need to accept that you'll never enjoy the same level of service that you would in a city.
46
26/11/2020 17:24:05 4 0
bbc
I was born here, in the backend of nowhere, went to school here, my family & friends are here. I do accept that we'll probably never have traffic lights, streetlights, theatres or large sports stadia within 30 miles... & I'm glad of it. But we're getting priced out by folks like you buying houses with city wages, a pretty view is what attracts the likes of you, not what keeps us locals here.
47
26/11/2020 17:31:26 1 4
bbc
More tabloid nonsense from them BBC ... can we have a picture of someone getting kicked in the teeth. Else use a headline based upon a truth and not a silly infantile emotion.

Is the BBC edited by a former journalist from the Sun or Mirror ?

At no point does the BBC even quote a person using the headline phrase.

Next we will have things like PM is secrete royal love Child says cleaner ...
48
26/11/2020 17:47:17 4 0
bbc
I've been involved with this, as there are many FTTP fibre providers assisting with the regional numbers. If you all knew the hard work required to roll out fibre in a logistical and IP networking sense, the sheer feats required in creating from scratch networks is huge. On top of this you've got private and public sector investment, with politics and targets foisted upon hard-working specialists.
49
26/11/2020 18:33:42 2 0
bbc
Ha Ha I have to laugh at this. I live in a semi-rural location, Max download spead 1.0Mb/s Max upload speed 0.3 Mb/s on a good day with little chance of getting anything faster unless I go 5G Wi-Fi when it rolls out in 2 years time here. The speeds people are complaining about here I can only dream about. I have friends in proper rural USA who get faster speeds than the the UK for lot cheaper.
42
26/11/2020 16:24:22 0 0
bbc
I think that's been answered already by "Bob" (above) at least by Openreach. Undoubtable, technically it could certainly have been started sooner, but when you have bean-counters and politicians calling the shots...
50
Bob
26/11/2020 18:50:28 0 1
bbc
Yes it was answered by me, and funny they never replied to my comment but replied to every other comment calling him out and yet still repeats the false claim.

Clearly they don't have a comeback for their fake news.
53
26/11/2020 19:05:04 1 0
bbc
Why are you deliberately misinterpreting what I said? I never said that BT was not installing FTTP, I said they were bringing FTTC closer to the home and that FTTP was still super rare. Maybe you live in a different region, but where I am new homes are not being built left right and centre.

I said that Virgin was still installing copper.

Where here is your so called "fake news"?
51
26/11/2020 18:52:45 3 1
bbc
why do we need gigabit to every door anyway - the number of domestic devices that could come withing a mile of using full gigabit ethernet is tiny. I work in I.T and the amount of traffic you can throw down a gigabit link without saturating it is pretty high even in a datacentre environment
54
26/11/2020 19:14:06 3 1
bbc
It's not that the line will constantly be saturated, it's for convenience and future-proofing.

We have 4K streaming now, well it's not hard to realise that 8K isn't far off, and there's no chance that kind of real-time consumption will happen over the air.

Games too, now hundreds of gigabytes each. The latest CoD is a 3 hour download on 100Mbps, with Gigabit that drops to 18 minutes.
70
27/11/2020 09:21:42 0 0
bbc
Well said. Poor performance at home is more likely to be because of using WiFi rather than a wired connection, throttling (deliberate) or bottlenecks (unintentional) by the ISP or at the far end or just doing too many things over the connection at the same time (it's like paying for a car, then expecting to transport a coachload of people).
41
26/11/2020 16:21:47 0 1
bbc
What on earth do you need Gigabit upload for, for home use?

On second thoughts, maybe I don't -want- to know...

And Hyperoptic don't appear from their site to have anyone connected within several miles of me, in the heart of the Black Country. But isn't that where we came in?
52
26/11/2020 19:00:25 1 0
bbc
What on earth do you need more than 100Mbps download speed for? That'll happily stream 3+ 4K streams simultaneously. You already know, it's for the convenience of getting things done faster.

Why bother with 1Gbps when you can get by happily on 30Mbps?

Maybe you oft want to send 4K home or your drone videos to friends? Not everyone is simply a zombified consumer, there are hobbyists too.
50
Bob
26/11/2020 18:50:28 0 1
bbc
Yes it was answered by me, and funny they never replied to my comment but replied to every other comment calling him out and yet still repeats the false claim.

Clearly they don't have a comeback for their fake news.
53
26/11/2020 19:05:04 1 0
bbc
Why are you deliberately misinterpreting what I said? I never said that BT was not installing FTTP, I said they were bringing FTTC closer to the home and that FTTP was still super rare. Maybe you live in a different region, but where I am new homes are not being built left right and centre.

I said that Virgin was still installing copper.

Where here is your so called "fake news"?
55
26/11/2020 19:20:17 0 1
bbc
You carefully missed the word "just" out of your quote there, which makes a big difference to how it reads....

But I suspect you know that.
51
26/11/2020 18:52:45 3 1
bbc
why do we need gigabit to every door anyway - the number of domestic devices that could come withing a mile of using full gigabit ethernet is tiny. I work in I.T and the amount of traffic you can throw down a gigabit link without saturating it is pretty high even in a datacentre environment
54
26/11/2020 19:14:06 3 1
bbc
It's not that the line will constantly be saturated, it's for convenience and future-proofing.

We have 4K streaming now, well it's not hard to realise that 8K isn't far off, and there's no chance that kind of real-time consumption will happen over the air.

Games too, now hundreds of gigabytes each. The latest CoD is a 3 hour download on 100Mbps, with Gigabit that drops to 18 minutes.
65
26/11/2020 23:24:55 1 2
bbc
so download your games overnight, what's the problem :-) The rollout is only slowed down not cancelled, the vast majority of people don't have 4k streaming yet and the manufacturers won't release 8k until we have all just finished buying 4k so everyone has to fork out for yet another 'technology refresh'
53
26/11/2020 19:05:04 1 0
bbc
Why are you deliberately misinterpreting what I said? I never said that BT was not installing FTTP, I said they were bringing FTTC closer to the home and that FTTP was still super rare. Maybe you live in a different region, but where I am new homes are not being built left right and centre.

I said that Virgin was still installing copper.

Where here is your so called "fake news"?
55
26/11/2020 19:20:17 0 1
bbc
You carefully missed the word "just" out of your quote there, which makes a big difference to how it reads....

But I suspect you know that.
81
27/11/2020 13:14:21 1 0
bbc
You should read a dictionary sometime, the word "just" means "barely"; it is not exclusionary.
56
pTc
26/11/2020 19:35:31 8 0
bbc
The HS2 budget should have been spent on 'future' communications technology. This year has proven that online business is the way forward.
85
27/11/2020 15:07:36 0 0
bbc
Absolutely right - and it would need but a small fraction of the HS2 budget.

HS2 only benefits those close to the terminals served - far from joining up the country it provides absolutely no benefit to South West, Wales, Scotland ......
57
26/11/2020 20:16:50 1 1
bbc
this was never going to happen in the time frame. maybe 2035. last to get anything good the uk.
58
26/11/2020 20:16:51 0 6
bbc
Here's the reality check

There are huge costs in living in the country - all services are not as good

With the robotisation of farming will mean virtually nobody need live there - move to a town
59
26/11/2020 21:19:17 3 0
bbc
How is it we keep on getting rid of crap leaders only to replace them with steadily worse ones? Just a thought...have we reached rock bottom yet?
64
26/11/2020 23:21:59 0 2
bbc
fortunately no - but only because Momentum lost the last election
60
26/11/2020 22:08:40 0 5
bbc
1Gb, Oh when can we have 2Gb so that guy can download COD5 in just 3 mins instead of 6. Suppose that's 'progress'
61
26/11/2020 22:29:33 0 0
bbc
I think people are missing the point here.. I seriously don't think the majority of people need Gigabit. I think the majority need upload and download speeds to match but at lower levels. More home based businesses could operate on 100/100 speeds.. but uploads of 5mbps when downloads are 72mbps are disgraceful ! and I'm sure rolling out to rural first would be of more benefit to the country.
69
27/11/2020 09:11:13 0 0
bbc
Worth checking your router stats. For most people, they will be downloading FAR more than they upload (probably by a factor of 10 or more), especially if they stream video regularly. If a lot of uploading is being done, it will show up in router stats. Most people really don't need it to be symmetrical - unless they are hosting (and that's more akin to business than consumer use).
18
26/11/2020 14:33:53 1 1
bbc
They will sell you a LEASED LINE, which is a completely new installation, to achieve more than 50Mbps. That is not the same as them selling you a package on their widely available network. We are also talking about fibre to the home, not businesses.

VM's gigabit isn't even gigabit because the provided hub can't handle it.

Companies such as Hyperoptic or community fibre do true gigabit services.
62
26/11/2020 22:37:26 0 0
bbc
here here.. I asked for a leased line quote recently to my premises (work from home office), anything reasonable, required at least £6-8k installation costs.. I opted for VM gig. I get roughly 750mpbs down, but the up speed which I need the most is 52mbps.. our office in Spain pays about £50 a month and gets gig down & gig up and for an additional £15 they get an SDSL backup line @ 100mbps !
82
27/11/2020 13:14:48 1 0
bbc
Exactly, we're far behind other countries, and for some reason we have a whole load of anticompetitive naysayers.
63
26/11/2020 23:20:28 3 3
bbc
kick in the teeth?

99% of the UK population couldn't begin to use anything like full gigabit bandwidth (1Gigabit lets you transmit the entire bible in 0.04 seconds) and the other 1% are running spambots
83
27/11/2020 13:51:32 0 0
bbc
I'm on a 900/900 connection, because it's there.
59
26/11/2020 21:19:17 3 0
bbc
How is it we keep on getting rid of crap leaders only to replace them with steadily worse ones? Just a thought...have we reached rock bottom yet?
64
26/11/2020 23:21:59 0 2
bbc
fortunately no - but only because Momentum lost the last election
54
26/11/2020 19:14:06 3 1
bbc
It's not that the line will constantly be saturated, it's for convenience and future-proofing.

We have 4K streaming now, well it's not hard to realise that 8K isn't far off, and there's no chance that kind of real-time consumption will happen over the air.

Games too, now hundreds of gigabytes each. The latest CoD is a 3 hour download on 100Mbps, with Gigabit that drops to 18 minutes.
65
26/11/2020 23:24:55 1 2
bbc
so download your games overnight, what's the problem :-) The rollout is only slowed down not cancelled, the vast majority of people don't have 4k streaming yet and the manufacturers won't release 8k until we have all just finished buying 4k so everyone has to fork out for yet another 'technology refresh'
80
27/11/2020 13:11:58 1 0
bbc
Most people I know stream in 4K, I've been doing it for years. 4K TVs have been sold at knockdown prices for the last 3+ years now.
66
27/11/2020 04:17:18 2 3
bbc
At this time I suspect the limited amount of money the Uk Government has could be better spent elsewhere.
67
27/11/2020 07:10:34 3 1
bbc
the cost of Broadband should be met by the user, not the Government.
new Build homes have Broadband fitted the same as power and water.
existing properties charged for fitting, but not the full amount, the remainder
to be recovered by usage charges, the monthly bill to reduce after cost met.
open the market to competition, allow not for profit, and community organisations
to provide Broadband.
68
27/11/2020 08:59:01 2 1
bbc
Progress & development of the entire country depends on this.

This high speed technology will also help stamp out inequality.

If only Bj showed the same enthusiasm as when he squandered tax payers money on designing a ridiculous garden.
61
26/11/2020 22:29:33 0 0
bbc
I think people are missing the point here.. I seriously don't think the majority of people need Gigabit. I think the majority need upload and download speeds to match but at lower levels. More home based businesses could operate on 100/100 speeds.. but uploads of 5mbps when downloads are 72mbps are disgraceful ! and I'm sure rolling out to rural first would be of more benefit to the country.
69
27/11/2020 09:11:13 0 0
bbc
Worth checking your router stats. For most people, they will be downloading FAR more than they upload (probably by a factor of 10 or more), especially if they stream video regularly. If a lot of uploading is being done, it will show up in router stats. Most people really don't need it to be symmetrical - unless they are hosting (and that's more akin to business than consumer use).
51
26/11/2020 18:52:45 3 1
bbc
why do we need gigabit to every door anyway - the number of domestic devices that could come withing a mile of using full gigabit ethernet is tiny. I work in I.T and the amount of traffic you can throw down a gigabit link without saturating it is pretty high even in a datacentre environment
70
27/11/2020 09:21:42 0 0
bbc
Well said. Poor performance at home is more likely to be because of using WiFi rather than a wired connection, throttling (deliberate) or bottlenecks (unintentional) by the ISP or at the far end or just doing too many things over the connection at the same time (it's like paying for a car, then expecting to transport a coachload of people).
37
26/11/2020 15:53:40 3 0
bbc
Why is there this continual perception that it’s only those in rural areas that struggle to access decent broadband. I get 2Mb down and Outreach quoted me £21k under the Universal Service Obligation to get a better connection!
71
27/11/2020 09:23:59 0 0
bbc
We know it isn't but it's certainly a minority in cities but the majority (if not all) in rural who cannot get faster BB.
12
26/11/2020 14:11:30 9 2
bbc
You do realise that not everyone out in the country moved there by choice?

But that't mean you couldn't be all smug and superior about people with nice views, wouldn't it?
72
27/11/2020 09:38:13 0 0
bbc
What, people are being forced to live or remain in rural areas? They made a choice to move or remain, it may not have been ideal or what they wanted to do but to claim they had no choice is nonsense.
73
27/11/2020 09:41:47 1 1
bbc
Really are people still banging about laying cable at the cost of £100.000's across miles of countryside, wait for masts with 5G to cover these areas at the fraction of the cost and homes can get a 5G receiver.
74
27/11/2020 09:56:48 0 4
bbc
4G is good enough for most. The rurals should have that with the compliments of the G, if not, the G will be shamed. As for 5G transmitters, erect them at the required distances, the result will be scenes that will seriously sting the eye, worse than power windmills.
77
27/11/2020 11:29:55 0 0
bbc
4G is OK, but the speeds seem to be slower further from the mast and cut-outs are regular mid-conference.
45
26/11/2020 17:15:36 5 0
bbc
"struggling with speeds below 30 Mbps"... I'd love to get speeds as fast as that! Yes, I could choose to go & live in a city & earn city wages, but I've always lived here, I run a business here & support the local shops & Post Office. Internet speeds of >5Mbps would greatly help my business, I don't need gigabit speeds, just enough to be able to upload & download HiDef photos would be nice.
75
27/11/2020 10:47:36 0 2
bbc
"struggling with speeds below 30 Mbps...." sums up what a load of 1st world whingers we are. One might struggle to breath, eat, keep warm, walk, etc. Nobody struggles because they have less than 30Mbps BB.
76
27/11/2020 11:23:55 0 0
bbc
As we move to more home working, personnel departments are looking at their employees potential home working capability. Work-based computing is shifting to cloud-based data storage and requires around 100 mbit/s connection for file synching.

Living in a rural spot in Aberdeenshire, we have pulled together a community fibre partnership to access the gigabit voucher scheme.
78
27/11/2020 12:05:32 0 3
bbc
"... requires around 100 mbit/s connection for file synching."

Between servers, maybe. Between a single home worker and remote storage, no way. You can stream HD TV at around 12Mbps. How many channels worth of HD (or higher def) content can a single homeworker simultaneously create or modify, even if their job is as a film editor. For normal office work, 100Kbps (just for file sync) is generous
74
27/11/2020 09:56:48 0 4
bbc
4G is good enough for most. The rurals should have that with the compliments of the G, if not, the G will be shamed. As for 5G transmitters, erect them at the required distances, the result will be scenes that will seriously sting the eye, worse than power windmills.
77
27/11/2020 11:29:55 0 0
bbc
4G is OK, but the speeds seem to be slower further from the mast and cut-outs are regular mid-conference.
79
27/11/2020 12:14:49 0 0
bbc
That just the laws of physics limitations on wireless signals (same as with home WiFi, just different distance scale). Even 5G & beyond will suffer from the same effects. That's ignoring issues arising at a conference hub, such as when everyone tries to join a call at "n" o'clock precisely.
76
27/11/2020 11:23:55 0 0
bbc
As we move to more home working, personnel departments are looking at their employees potential home working capability. Work-based computing is shifting to cloud-based data storage and requires around 100 mbit/s connection for file synching.

Living in a rural spot in Aberdeenshire, we have pulled together a community fibre partnership to access the gigabit voucher scheme.
78
27/11/2020 12:05:32 0 3
bbc
"... requires around 100 mbit/s connection for file synching."

Between servers, maybe. Between a single home worker and remote storage, no way. You can stream HD TV at around 12Mbps. How many channels worth of HD (or higher def) content can a single homeworker simultaneously create or modify, even if their job is as a film editor. For normal office work, 100Kbps (just for file sync) is generous
77
27/11/2020 11:29:55 0 0
bbc
4G is OK, but the speeds seem to be slower further from the mast and cut-outs are regular mid-conference.
79
27/11/2020 12:14:49 0 0
bbc
That just the laws of physics limitations on wireless signals (same as with home WiFi, just different distance scale). Even 5G & beyond will suffer from the same effects. That's ignoring issues arising at a conference hub, such as when everyone tries to join a call at "n" o'clock precisely.
65
26/11/2020 23:24:55 1 2
bbc
so download your games overnight, what's the problem :-) The rollout is only slowed down not cancelled, the vast majority of people don't have 4k streaming yet and the manufacturers won't release 8k until we have all just finished buying 4k so everyone has to fork out for yet another 'technology refresh'
80
27/11/2020 13:11:58 1 0
bbc
Most people I know stream in 4K, I've been doing it for years. 4K TVs have been sold at knockdown prices for the last 3+ years now.
55
26/11/2020 19:20:17 0 1
bbc
You carefully missed the word "just" out of your quote there, which makes a big difference to how it reads....

But I suspect you know that.
81
27/11/2020 13:14:21 1 0
bbc
You should read a dictionary sometime, the word "just" means "barely"; it is not exclusionary.
62
26/11/2020 22:37:26 0 0
bbc
here here.. I asked for a leased line quote recently to my premises (work from home office), anything reasonable, required at least £6-8k installation costs.. I opted for VM gig. I get roughly 750mpbs down, but the up speed which I need the most is 52mbps.. our office in Spain pays about £50 a month and gets gig down & gig up and for an additional £15 they get an SDSL backup line @ 100mbps !
82
27/11/2020 13:14:48 1 0
bbc
Exactly, we're far behind other countries, and for some reason we have a whole load of anticompetitive naysayers.
63
26/11/2020 23:20:28 3 3
bbc
kick in the teeth?

99% of the UK population couldn't begin to use anything like full gigabit bandwidth (1Gigabit lets you transmit the entire bible in 0.04 seconds) and the other 1% are running spambots
83
27/11/2020 13:51:32 0 0
bbc
I'm on a 900/900 connection, because it's there.
84
27/11/2020 14:29:20 1 0
bbc
reading some of the comments here, we might as well go back to sending information by carrier pigeon...
56
pTc
26/11/2020 19:35:31 8 0
bbc
The HS2 budget should have been spent on 'future' communications technology. This year has proven that online business is the way forward.
85
27/11/2020 15:07:36 0 0
bbc
Absolutely right - and it would need but a small fraction of the HS2 budget.

HS2 only benefits those close to the terminals served - far from joining up the country it provides absolutely no benefit to South West, Wales, Scotland ......
86
27/11/2020 15:24:27 0 0
bbc
Oh the days of my 1200 download/ 75 upload acoustic coupler baud dial up modem attached to my BBC Micro for Prestel and such like !! - even then no-one unless business needed much upload speed for home use!!
87
Dad
27/11/2020 21:33:39 0 0
bbc
Are people not aware that broadband is available via satellite? It is not as cheap as conventional line fed broadband but I suggest that the cost even if it was subsidised by the tax payer would be a tiny fraction of the cost of fttp. Come to think of it why should the tax payer subsidise the cost for people who choose to live in remote areas?
Satellite broadband is quite common on the continent.