Don't go to work when sick, 'peculiar' Brits told
24/11/2020 | news | health | 1,089
People have tendency to soldier on, potentially making colleagues sick, health secretary says.
1
24/11/2020 16:11:45 34 18
bbc
For once, something I actually agree with Matt Hancock on!
135
24/11/2020 16:39:00 14 6
bbc
Except its Utter pie in the sky!!
Tories pushed austerity decade and NHS cuts.
Invoking more tests for everything.. Means more NHS time (unless run by privatised chumocracy!) in blood letting, testing and follow up. New blood letting premises. It means 1 HR off sick for blood test even if you aren't sick. Are there tests (100% certain) for everything? Doubt it.
And your sickness record does count
2
24/11/2020 16:13:06 12 10
bbc
He really is an odious little man. Far better suited to being a provincial under performing school head than in charge of the nation's health.
3
24/11/2020 16:13:29 13 10
bbc
I wish Hancock would take some time off....

Give us all a bloody rest from his ineptitude...
4
24/11/2020 16:13:33 26 4
bbc
Nothing worse than someone 'soldiering on' and coming in to work while ill ... and passing it on to everyone else.
5
24/11/2020 16:13:48 21 5
bbc
Wow, something I agree with him on for once. Lets hope people will stop going into the office infecting people when they are ill. A lot of folk will now have the ability to work from home if this happens. Sufficient support should be provided for those who can't
264
24/11/2020 16:57:39 7 7
bbc
If anyone agrees with this totally insane person Hancock then they are very naive indeed. He is one of the biggest two faced liars on earth, and will be saying the exact opposite next week on December 2nd.

Perhaps he should be deported to somewhere like Afghanistan or Syria, where he would then know what soldiering on really means.
25/11/2020 11:23:30 0 0
bbc
As long as they are getting paid for it, which a lot aren't.
6
24/11/2020 16:13:51 1000 17
bbc
Maybe it's because these people lose money or are subject to disciplinary action if they take time off work
101
24/11/2020 16:32:44 261 42
bbc
My thought too.
Pretty sure pre covid employers / cons talked about sickness skivers.
What he is saying is in contradiction of austerity decade and NHS cutbacks.
Testing, blood taking etc will all take time (will employers welcome 1hr time off to test for a possible bug?).
Just proves ukgov incompetence will continue post covid.
121
24/11/2020 16:36:42 83 5
bbc
Exactly - employers in this country tend to frown on those absent from work, zero hour contracts do not help. £95 a week sick pay is a joke.
179
24/11/2020 16:45:02 33 3
bbc
Yes, exactly!
201
24/11/2020 16:48:00 24 60
bbc
Oh Great! Let's create a skivers culture to supplement the blame/claim culture.
Businesses, particularly small ones, cannot support this but lets pretend that everyone running a business has access to the magic money tree.
This would cause even greater business closures and resultant unemployment.
205
24/11/2020 16:48:25 97 4
bbc
Currently off sick after emergency brain surgery. When I return to work, if I take more sick leave in the next year, my employer will commence disciplinary action, potentially ending in dismissal. My employer is the government.
233
24/11/2020 16:52:33 44 29
bbc
spot on!! I work in the private sector and my company is now only paying SSP for time off due to sickness. This was made policy back in May due to downturn in business.
Don't expect to see any of us taking time off ill or to isolate.

Unfortunately, a lot of us don't work in the "full pay whatever the excuse" public sector.
240
24/11/2020 16:53:41 34 2
bbc
Employer should provide facility for staff to work from home where possible. My work computer is a desktop type, there were times when I had sniffles but still had to soldier on because I was expected to. The culture has to change.
249
fty
24/11/2020 16:49:05 47 3
bbc
Was just going to say the same....what a disingenuous ****. For "soldiering on", read "scared stiff not to"
282
24/11/2020 16:53:35 35 2
bbc
I used to work for a major british energy supplier, we got full sick pay for upto a year didn’t stop some people dragging themselves in and infecting half the open plan office with their germs. Used to drive me mad as I always seemed to pick something up??
297
24/11/2020 17:02:13 36 1
bbc
Nail meet head, head meet nail

The sooner the Dickensian Mill mentality of UK management goes and they learn they will get more out of people by treating them well, rather than as magic machines that maintain themselves & keep going no matter how hard you push them, the better it will be for everyone

Not just the workers but the business owners too, who'll have a more productive workforce
307
24/11/2020 17:04:01 15 1
bbc
Exactly. That's why I went to work when sick, even with a damaged arm that restricted what I could do. Even then, that was dim viewed as I wasn't able to do any heavy lifting for a while should it be needed. One guy who had a shoulder op ended up being removed from the group even though it wasn't affecting his work, it was just a blot on his record. He retired early because of that.
366
24/11/2020 17:13:07 14 2
bbc
I spent 5 days in hospital last December (thankfully before CV19 struck) with great nursing and consultancy. One senior nurse came into work 2 consecutive nights with an obvious heavy cold and cough. The nurse should have been off work. But it does make one think was the nurse HAVING to work to ensure an income for her family. Likewise support worker friends cannot afford to take time off!
448
24/11/2020 17:24:38 17 1
bbc
I agree - those on zero hours contracts get nothing if they don't work. Add to that women who take leave to look after sick children don't get paid either. They can't afford to stay home if they get ill. No work no pay has long been the way of things in this country, sadly.
468
24/11/2020 17:28:09 11 0
bbc
The company I used to work for, private sector, used number of sick days as one of the criteria for selecting people for the regular redundancy programmes. They paid lip service to not coming in when ill but it wasn’t the way they acted.
505
24/11/2020 17:34:35 6 1
bbc
I was in the public sector and our boss was very, very suspicious of us having sick leave. It was official policy from the area manager that you came to work unless physically incapable.
556
24/11/2020 17:44:33 10 1
bbc
Absolutely - the work culture of many places I’ve worked made clear that sickness=weakness and led to stupid and humiliating disciplinary meetings to discourage future absence. Shows how out of touch Hancock and his fellow idiot Tories are. They created this atmosphere so reap what you sow.
575
24/11/2020 17:49:37 2 0
bbc
Maybe now we have a "global-scale diagnostics capability" a confirmed result will be sufficient for that not to be the case. Way too many simply do not stop to think how to avoid such disciplinary action. Govt can help by making such action 'illegal' when a confirmed test result is presented. So easy to get this sorted.
596
24/11/2020 17:51:50 3 1
bbc
Yep, less job security, weaker employment rights and terms meant this was inevitable. It means less sick days for the employer but also less productivity so at best neutral. The government though stands to gain by lower claims of statutory sick pay.
623
24/11/2020 17:57:30 0 1
bbc
Yes - and especially true for the civil service !
712
24/11/2020 18:16:42 2 0
bbc
Got it in one, fear of losing your job, damned if you do, damned if you don't
730
24/11/2020 18:24:28 2 0
bbc
I work in the food industry. Unless it is coming out either end then I'm just told to work at the end of the kitchen away from other staff. One of the days where I did call in sick and stay home, I was phoned up and asked to come in to cover the lunch service.
749
24/11/2020 18:28:41 0 0
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Bradford factor. Evil
830
24/11/2020 18:51:38 0 0
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Anyone who has a decent job with a decent employer won't lose money or be subject to disciplinary action so whilst what you say might be true for some it certainly isn't true for all.
846
24/11/2020 18:56:21 0 0
bbc
Exactly. I only get SSP if i take time of work, which doesn't cover the bills. I have no entitlement to paid sick leave. If the government want us to this suggestion then they should pay full sick pay leave, and the tax payer will take another hit.
858
24/11/2020 18:57:46 1 0
bbc
Yep. All backed up by “so called” HR idiots
875
24/11/2020 19:03:13 0 0
bbc
Or maybe it's also because colds are just part of life and we can't hide from them. If you've actually got the flu you probably won't be able to get out of bed so definitely won't be going to work.
925
24/11/2020 20:11:47 1 1
bbc
.... not to mention people whispering "skiver" behind their backs.

Just think 1 year ago people (mostly women) thought "man flu" was funny and could make men who were actually ill the butt of jokes & workplace bullying.

And then it turned into "Gran flu" and they stopped laughing.
931
24/11/2020 20:24:24 0 0
bbc
I worked as a contractor (as opposed to being on the staff payroll) for most of my working life and the simple rule was, no work-no pay. Needless to say some people came to work in a totally unfit state and shared their affliction with the rest of us.
933
24/11/2020 20:25:42 1 0
bbc
Exactly, I was told I needed a back to work interview after 6 weeks off with a broken ankle. They were asking medical questions and I refused to answer, they threatened disciplinary action, I threatened to sue. Back at work and no interview!
7
24/11/2020 16:13:54 26 2
bbc
Get ready for a wave of tribunals with loose employers terminating employment at three absences in a year, because Matt told them to stay off work.
265
24/11/2020 16:57:41 9 2
bbc
Get ready for those people not to be quite so dumb as to risk their job, food, home on the word of a career liar without any legislative change.
8
24/11/2020 16:14:09 71 9
bbc
Before COVID, there were far too many colds going round my workplace entirely unnecessarily, with people insisting on coming in. Hopefully that will change for good.
113
24/11/2020 16:35:05 21 6
bbc
Could start a mask up if sick culture as in far east. Who etc were adamant masks didn't help.. Until.. They did.
As others sick time (& that would include hr off to get blood tests?) does count in your work record!!
437
24/11/2020 17:14:40 3 1
bbc
You would shut down every University in the first couple of weeks of term! As someone who gets Fresher's Flu every year, we can't afford to take time off work. Who's going to go and get a sick note for a cold? That's £15 a time.
9
24/11/2020 16:13:33 166 4
bbc
Does our 'peculiar' behaviour not have something do with the fact that we have some of the least generous sick pay arrangements amongst our peers? Hopefully going forward there will be more acceptance of and ability to work from home when required, but it strikes me as blinkered to ignore a huge part of what drives our tendency to work whilst sick.
678
24/11/2020 18:11:38 40 1
bbc
And also so many are on short term contracts and can be finished on a whim with very little notice and no reasons required.
25/11/2020 10:08:49 0 0
bbc
I think that's the silver lining on covid. I've worked from home when i'd normally call in sick this year when i'd of previously called in sick. Most of the time you can still work when sick (if you've got a desk job). My main reason for calling in sick is I don't want to give it to anyone else.
10
24/11/2020 16:13:40 4 15
bbc
If this clown new any teachers he’d no what absolute tosh he’s talking.
39
24/11/2020 16:19:50 6 2
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Perhaps if you KNEW any teachers you’d KNOW what he’s talking about. Teachers are no different to any other employee.
65
24/11/2020 16:24:56 4 1
bbc
Its clear you don't, especially English teachers!
86
RSA
24/11/2020 16:29:39 2 1
bbc
It doesn't look like you knew many teachers!
11
24/11/2020 16:15:02 406 9
bbc
Give your message to the many of UK bosses, who expect you to turn up regardless. Failure to do so is frowned upon, discouraged and interpreted as malingering, not wanting to climb the greasy promotion pole and unproductive. Sadly this view is also prevalent amongst peer groups too. It's obviously a nuts attitude as it usually lays low the rest of the workforce in stages.
166
24/11/2020 16:42:40 57 41
bbc
Attitudes need to change! Accepting bad attitudes isn't the solution. It's up to employees to demand a change of approach.
I worked for the government and they expect you to work regardless of your health or disciplinary action is taken against you and you get bullied by your managers Removed
221
Pez
24/11/2020 16:50:47 3 2
bbc
Have you never been to a "How to manage your career and climb the greasy pole" success event? /s
385
24/11/2020 17:15:36 3 12
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No. Man-up. Shake it off. Earn your crust
402
24/11/2020 17:17:53 6 9
bbc
Unfortunately many people think 'bullying' is being told to do something they are paid for. Like travelling to meetings, attending training courses etc.
522
24/11/2020 17:38:58 1 0
bbc
Yeah but those people are fewer and fewer especially after everyone WFH clearly shows you can be trusted to work
657
24/11/2020 18:02:32 0 4
bbc
Nonsense. Regardless UK bosses 'expectations', employment laws are crystal clear. You have a verifiable test result then all these archaic 'expectations' will 'disappear'. Simply stand up for yourself!
677
24/11/2020 18:11:01 0 0
bbc
You need to separate those who bring in a sick note and those who call in conveniently sick in order to attend some family, sport or recreational event.
There is usually sympathy for the former but if the latter develop a pattern of absences, they are soon recognised as chancers.
Too many exploit the system which is not fair on their employers, fellow workers or the genuinely sick.
12
24/11/2020 16:15:02 35 4
bbc
Easy for him to say! Try staying off work when you work in a hospital which is understaffed, or alternatively if you work in a job where you don't get paid unless you turn up. If you stayed at home every time you had a cold it starts to get rather ridiculous. No test available for that!
18
24/11/2020 16:16:45 12 19
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No, it wouldn't start to get ridiculous -- because you wouldn't get a cold anywhere near as often if everybody abides by this.
353
24/11/2020 17:02:58 0 0
bbc
Well said. This is where change needs to happen, to support critical health workers like yourself to : 1. prevent you from infecting others and 2. provide you with the right financial support and staffing framework that doesn't penalise you for doing the right thing, yet allows for enough people to cope with the healthcare centre's demands (i.e supply /bank staff)
13
24/11/2020 16:15:19 11 9
bbc
About time. There's always one in the office who comes in, does nothing, tells everyone how ill they are and then spreads the infection across the office, meaning half the staff are now off. Go home stay at home till you are better. Or, here's a novel approach, increase your hygiene levels and avoid being the one who's always ill, in the first place.
47
24/11/2020 16:21:37 10 0
bbc
Are you saying that sick people are unhygienic?
14
24/11/2020 16:15:37 74 3
bbc
Absolutely. However, I wonder to what extent it's a 'cultural' thing, and how much is down to employment law and practice - do people *want* to go to work while they're ill, or feel they have to?

(if it's the latter - which I guess is likely - then it needs to be a top-down solution, you can't just put emotional pressure on employees on top of existing 'turn-up-or-else' pressure from management)
23
24/11/2020 16:17:43 85 5
bbc
....not to mention that the UK has some of the lowest levels of statutory sick pay in Europe. And some of the most expensive housing (the driver of so many ills).
851
24/11/2020 18:57:49 0 0
bbc
There is always the possibility that you are working to deadlines in a high pressure environment and you don't want to let you colleagues down since they'll need to work through the night to finish what you didn't do
15
24/11/2020 16:15:43 226 6
bbc
I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that most minor illnesses that people go to work with last a few days and are done but to get a doctors appointment in many cases will mean a two week wait. In the meantime if you're off ill you may only get SSP and if it's more than a couple days you'll need the doctors note which you can't get for another week?

No can't be that.
I have always been annoyed at colleagues who come into work sick, coughing, sneezing, thinking they are some kind of heroic martyr.
I resent people coming in to work and spreading their germs. F*** off home!
Removed
695
24/11/2020 18:13:04 2 0
bbc
"and if it's more than a couple days you'll need the doctors note"

If it is more than a week. But certification makes no difference to the point being discussed here. Employment law makes no distinction between GP and self-certification.
770
24/11/2020 18:34:50 0 3
bbc
Al of these 'issues' can be sorted. It is down to you to get it sorted. You call and ask for a certificate. You build your 'evidence' and present it to your employer and should your employer not be willing to wait a week for the 'doctor's note' then you take it to an employment tribunal. Down to you to fight for your rights.
941
24/11/2020 20:38:02 0 0
bbc
Neaaah .. just Brits being unusual & peculiar.

Probably to annoy Matt Hancock and drive our COVID stats higher simply to embarrass him.

What are Doctors BTW ?
16
24/11/2020 16:15:50 11 5
bbc
need employers to be more understanding about illness and requiring time off then as the way some react is disgraceful and some offer no sick pay at all. Personally I have had 1 day off sick since 2004 and I've had plenty of illnesses, colds etc but unless I'm bedridden as I was on the 1 day off I had I always feel better for getting up and getting on with it.
17
24/11/2020 16:16:29 270 5
bbc
Whilst I totally agree, your absence record can and will be used against you - end that and then people might stay off - oh yes hey need paying too
95
JGC
24/11/2020 16:31:38 171 6
bbc
I agree, I've seen it where two employees were rated the same, so the one that got made redundant was the one that had taken more time off sick.
662
24/11/2020 18:06:01 0 3
bbc
'Absence record can and will be used against you'? ONLY if you are seen to abuse the system. People very rarely catch flu more than once a year and if everyone followed the BASICS 'Hands, Face, Space' - especially those who seem to have an absence record - then the reality is LESS TIME OFF SICK!
12
24/11/2020 16:15:02 35 4
bbc
Easy for him to say! Try staying off work when you work in a hospital which is understaffed, or alternatively if you work in a job where you don't get paid unless you turn up. If you stayed at home every time you had a cold it starts to get rather ridiculous. No test available for that!
18
24/11/2020 16:16:45 12 19
bbc
No, it wouldn't start to get ridiculous -- because you wouldn't get a cold anywhere near as often if everybody abides by this.
25/11/2020 10:49:57 0 0
bbc
But people can't abide by it if they aren't getting paid.
19
24/11/2020 16:16:47 127 13
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Hancock forgets that because of an erosion in the protection of workers' rights (thanks Tories), people are scared to stay at home when ill for fear of being the next ones to be laid off. And - of course - we know how easy it is to make people redundant now, compared with 20 years ago.
718
24/11/2020 18:19:50 28 4
bbc
"Hancock forgets that because of an erosion in the protection of workers' rights (thanks Tories)"

People voted for that to get far worse after leaving the EU. And it will.
20
24/11/2020 16:16:56 15 0
bbc
Works in an ideal world but who will cover for all the staff absent with a cold?
55
24/11/2020 16:22:36 4 6
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Your comment is implicitly assuming that the number of people likely to be absent with a cold would be similar to previous experience. If people abide by the advice to stay at home, then it should become a much rarer occurrence than in the past.
21
24/11/2020 16:17:11 1 12
bbc
if you are well enough to go to work then there is nothing wrong with you amen
22
24/11/2020 16:17:14 25 1
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And get disciplined and sacked for taking too much time off. Not to speak of what happens to the service you are providing if you’re not there.....
14
24/11/2020 16:15:37 74 3
bbc
Absolutely. However, I wonder to what extent it's a 'cultural' thing, and how much is down to employment law and practice - do people *want* to go to work while they're ill, or feel they have to?

(if it's the latter - which I guess is likely - then it needs to be a top-down solution, you can't just put emotional pressure on employees on top of existing 'turn-up-or-else' pressure from management)
23
24/11/2020 16:17:43 85 5
bbc
....not to mention that the UK has some of the lowest levels of statutory sick pay in Europe. And some of the most expensive housing (the driver of so many ills).
622
24/11/2020 17:57:09 0 3
bbc
You will find a lot of European folk live in apartments not a semi with garden
24
24/11/2020 16:18:04 301 8
bbc
With statutory sick pay set at £94 a week, people aren’t soldiering on for fun. They’re going to work when sick because they can’t afford to stay home and recover. We need a better sick pay system here, we have the lowest amount of sick pay in Europe and this needs to change.
34
EB
24/11/2020 16:19:05 78 6
bbc
Spot on.
53
RSA
24/11/2020 16:22:00 4 5
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How do we fare in the National Insurance and tax payments in Europe. Pay more in, get more out.
724
24/11/2020 18:23:07 0 5
bbc
If most continued to follow the BASICS of 'Hands, Face, Space' - as we should be doing now with COVID19 - and WEAR A MASK INDOORS and OUTDOORS - then the likelihood of you falling sick with a cold or flu is greatly reduced!
786
24/11/2020 18:39:26 0 0
bbc
At my place you get only SSP if you've been employed less than 12 months. At the start of the pandemic, one of my colleagues said if he got covid he would still try to come in because he was new and couldn't live on ssp. I reported this to the CEO and she changed the rules on contractual sick pay so that it kicked in straight away.
873
24/11/2020 19:02:43 0 0
bbc
It's actually worse than that, not £94 per week, you forgot to mention the mandatory 'waiting days'
940
24/11/2020 20:36:17 0 0
bbc
"we have the lowest amount of sick pay in Europe"

Neeeahh .. Brits are just cussed, peculiar & unusual.

One minute they are lazy Brits for not wanting to do jobs.
The next minute they are peculiar Brits for working when they are sick.

Get the narrative right MSM & other vocal types.

:-D
25
24/11/2020 16:18:10 14 0
bbc
I agree, especially in the current situation, runny nose, sneezes and masks, not a good mix.

However, some people can't afford to be off sick
and some employers frown upon it to even discipline their workforce for being sick.
26
24/11/2020 16:18:25 112 3
bbc
Comments like that just serve to show how aloof and out of touch he is with modern day HR practices. The comments from others about disciplinaries and job loss for being ill are much nearer the truth.
Because you don't want to incur the wrath from a Priti Patel type bullying Line Manager ... Removed
Excellent post. Removed
So true Removed
314
24/11/2020 17:05:04 3 2
bbc
She makes people do the jobs they supposed to do, but are refusing to do on account of being Far Left extremists who think they have the right to over ride the wishes of the electorate, simply because they are privileged middle class types.

Not the same as making people work when ill.
327
24/11/2020 17:06:25 0 0
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Very interested to see Priti case quoted on next harassment and bullying case within civil service especially if it goes to tribunal

Why me when priti did exactly same could well be a quote
387
24/11/2020 17:15:54 0 0
bbc
'Bullying'? I worked in the Civil Service. A female colleague complained of 'bullying' because her line manager told her to travel to Birmingham to a meeting, something that was expected of her pay grade.
28
24/11/2020 16:18:27 74 2
bbc
While I agree with Matt Hancock, sometimes people feel compelled to go into work because they fear being sacked if they take time off when they're ill.
29
24/11/2020 16:18:36 134 4
bbc
Yet again, the government is speaking without thinking. I wholeheartedly agree with what he is saying, people should stay at home if they are sick. But as usual the government has no actual plan for the consequences. As others have said, there is only so much time you can have off before getting fired.
381
24/11/2020 17:15:10 34 5
bbc
and I'm guessing that he wants individuals to pay for these tests - and they are probably manufactured/distributed/given by private companies that I'm sure many politicians have an interest in(not just Conservatives - all politicians are pretty much in it for their own well being, some mor blatant than others)
679
24/11/2020 18:11:44 0 2
bbc
"there is only so much time you can have off before getting fired"..........er, unless you work for a public sector organisation.
30
24/11/2020 16:18:45 309 6
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The majority of us go in when we sick because we don't get paid otherwise.
45
24/11/2020 16:21:10 64 87
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You need a job in the Public Sector mate.

We all do.

Why anyone would want to work in the private sector anymore is beyond me.
378
24/11/2020 17:14:52 5 1
bbc
I had that when I worked in a supermarket, one guy injured his back while shelf stacking he had 6 weeks off work with no pay.
405
24/11/2020 17:18:07 2 0
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some others do regardless if we get paid sick-pay or not.
706
24/11/2020 18:19:15 0 0
bbc
Nonsense. For sure you get paid when you provide a medical certificate and for sure you can get one where your employer insists you have one to get paid. And if your doctor charges you for a certificate your employer is obliged to pay for it.
31
24/11/2020 16:19:04 10 3
bbc
I've never understood the mentality of people who won't lose any earnings still going into workplaces with contagious diseases. Fair enough if you're self employed you might not be able to (though you should if at all possible).

I've had to do presentations etc I couldn't miss but on those occasions people were glad when I explained why I was denying them a handshake. No one wants your cold.
32
24/11/2020 16:19:04 42 4
bbc
Such an entitled thing to say. What about the many minimum wage workers that know full well taking a covid test and staying off work for more than a week could very well end their jobs? Which then leaves them facing debt, eviction and everything else.

People should be 100% not going to work if they have symptoms but they also need to get more help if they do that, not just a 'get on with it'.
33
24/11/2020 16:19:05 20 0
bbc
Some years back, the boss at my firm gave a warning that anyone taking more than a set number of sickies in a year would face disciplinary action. Some people rapidly worked out that if they kept their sickies to this number minus one, they were fireproof.
54
24/11/2020 16:22:19 10 0
bbc
Problem then is if they become genuinely too ill to work during the time period after having their alloted number of sick days.
345
24/11/2020 17:09:07 0 0
bbc
A very long time ago in the civil service (MOD civ) I got dragged in to HR in my 3rd year...ready....got told that my level of sickness for the last 18 months had been too low (3 days) so I must have been coming been ill as the average we see is around 10-11 days a year :-)!..So ended up basically taking sickies to make sure I hit the average number!!..so can go both ways!
859
24/11/2020 18:59:02 0 0
bbc
Most employers have changed that to 3 episodes or 10 days in a rolling year rather than a set year.
24
24/11/2020 16:18:04 301 8
bbc
With statutory sick pay set at £94 a week, people aren’t soldiering on for fun. They’re going to work when sick because they can’t afford to stay home and recover. We need a better sick pay system here, we have the lowest amount of sick pay in Europe and this needs to change.
34
EB
24/11/2020 16:19:05 78 6
bbc
Spot on.
35
24/11/2020 16:19:15 8 4
bbc
What about Monday flu?

A lot of people have that and they always take the day off
36
24/11/2020 16:19:38 36 5
bbc
He's a complete idiot doesn't he realise some of us miss out on the first three days of being sick.
81
24/11/2020 16:23:09 24 2
bbc
You have to remember, mps get paid even if they don't go to work, so his perception of reality is a bit warped in comparison to ours.
82
24/11/2020 16:23:35 1 0
bbc
it's a really stupid rule, it doesn't encourage you to go back if you feel better until the third day anyway so you can get some pay for it.
202
24/11/2020 16:48:01 2 0
bbc
He;s a complete politician, who knows this full well. He knows the better position: divide, blame, and get the useful idiots to blame each other.

As you'll see from the other posts saying "public sector blah blah made up lies blah blah".
37
24/11/2020 16:19:44 25 0
bbc
There are companies that pay bonuses - and decent ones too - to employees who don't have sick days. Why risk a juicy addition to the pay packet when struggling through work is seen as good behaviour?
38
24/11/2020 16:19:44 8 2
bbc
Easy to say now half of us working at home!

If he said that in Jan he’d have been sacked!
87
24/11/2020 16:29:45 1 2
bbc
He should have been sacked back in the spring of this year, as all he has proved to be is nothing but a big liar and highly incompetent.
10
24/11/2020 16:13:40 4 15
bbc
If this clown new any teachers he’d no what absolute tosh he’s talking.
39
24/11/2020 16:19:50 6 2
bbc
Perhaps if you KNEW any teachers you’d KNOW what he’s talking about. Teachers are no different to any other employee.
259
24/11/2020 16:56:36 0 2
bbc
High school teachers can be in a classroom with 150 different kids from 150 households over each day, and are obviously a zillion times more likely to get any and every infection that is going round any number of workplaces... so, not quite like any other employee that might drive a truck, sit with a dozen people in an office, etc.

but correcting a is typo far more important. Well done.
40
24/11/2020 16:19:53 9 5
bbc
He forgot the rest of the sentence - "Stay at home if you're sick if you work for the private sector, and go to work if you're well if you work for the civil service"
41
24/11/2020 16:20:01 130 6
bbc
Better improve SSP then or forced companies that are too tight to offer sickpay to do so.

You know like with the law.
52
24/11/2020 16:21:54 44 2
bbc
Spot on!!
78
24/11/2020 16:21:51 3 1
bbc
Nah why make laws when you can kindly ask or recommend they do it, I mean yes that's never worked before, but maybe this time it will.
317
24/11/2020 17:05:11 2 5
bbc
You have clearly never run anything in your life.
Where do you believe companies find this extra money? There are only a few Amazon's out there, the rest are run by owners who often struggle to pay bills themselves.
711
24/11/2020 18:16:32 2 0
bbc
"Better improve SSP then or forced companies that are too tight to offer sickpay to do so."

Reviewing the practice of enforced contractor status would be a start. Companies like Uber do that to avoid sick pay, as well as holidays, pensions and other employment benefits.
943
24/11/2020 20:40:42 2 0
bbc
AND ENFORCE IT.

Ha ha ha.... no chance with these clowns.
42
24/11/2020 16:20:17 7 14
bbc
Peculiar for having a work ethic ?

Suppose.

Of course it's always been common place in the Public Sector....pulling a sicky.

"Boss, can't come in today.....I've got a touch of the long covids."
145
24/11/2020 16:39:39 1 0
bbc
You have no idea, do you. I'm public sector and its a disciplinary if you have 3 days off sickness during one year.
192
24/11/2020 16:46:32 0 0
bbc
Of course, making up lies about the public sector is commonplace.

Obviously you haven't had a job nor met anyone in the public sector, but read the DM avidly.
43
24/11/2020 16:21:03 31 4
bbc
Is this man a complete moron!! The reason people have to keep working is sick pay for some people won't pay the bills
372
24/11/2020 17:13:53 1 1
bbc
certainly someone on full sick pay...which I would think most salaried office workers past 1-2 years service have..so its again a white collar disconnect thing, in my company we all get full sick pay for 14 days, ideally more than 7 get a Dr Note too. I do now as a manager say 'go home' but that's because the company culture and health/wellbeing support it.
44
24/11/2020 16:21:04 616 20
bbc
My employer, a former nationalised industry, if you have too much time off you get sacked. And that Mr Hancock, is why we keep going in while we are sick.
328
OwO
24/11/2020 17:06:29 63 242
bbc
That's against employment law, assuming you're able to show actual evidence of sickness i.e. a doctor's note.

If you just sit there and let it happen to you, instead of taking the routes that are available to you, there's no one else to blame.
329
24/11/2020 17:06:36 25 9
bbc
Define too much? I used to work in the civil service and people would use sick days as additional holiday. My first week there a senior manager came to HR and asked "how many sick days have I had this year" when he left the HR manager said "He'll be off for the next four week now" and sure enough he was.
359
24/11/2020 17:11:48 38 1
bbc
Tell that to the ladies working in the clothes industry in Leicester who were expected to work no matter what, covid be dammed, it was in the new a month or so ago, over worked underpaid and long shifts, or don't bother coming into work again
Clearly at best a, Liberal or at worst, a Labour voter. Removed
421
24/11/2020 17:20:59 8 8
bbc
What is wrong with that? Even in the soft Civil Service there is a limit to how many days sick you can have. Too many odd days and you have a meeting with your manager which can lead to a written warning. Or would you rather let people ring in sick at the start of every week because they don't like Mondays?
464
24/11/2020 17:27:11 34 3
bbc
I work for a nationalised company, 3 times off sick within 12 months puts you on stage 1, another sickness after that puts you on stage 2, another after that and your fired
625
24/11/2020 17:57:32 0 5
bbc
Poppycock. Simply does not happen where there is an authenticated confirmed test result. In anycase, no one catches 'flu' three times four times whatever in a year. Follow the BASICS of 'Hands, Face, Space' and you'd be really unlucky to catch flu once a year!
30
24/11/2020 16:18:45 309 6
bbc
The majority of us go in when we sick because we don't get paid otherwise.
45
24/11/2020 16:21:10 64 87
bbc
You need a job in the Public Sector mate.

We all do.

Why anyone would want to work in the private sector anymore is beyond me.
119
24/11/2020 16:36:24 39 3
bbc
Because the wages are terrible? Zero perks, zero social scene. No bonuses or Christmas dos. You literally get nothing on top of your meagre salary. Grass isn't always greener, believe me.
143
24/11/2020 16:39:30 44 8
bbc
Public sector get warning and sacked after couple of periods of sickness

Not the great job the daily mail says it is
173
24/11/2020 16:43:46 8 41
bbc
Those who can do, those who can't become civil servants.
181
24/11/2020 16:45:34 29 3
bbc
Really? Try looking at the NHS. OK you might be paid the first time, but then your record is marked. Too many sick days in a rolling period of time and you face disciplinary action. The irony is that many people are working around sick people.
195
24/11/2020 16:46:52 4 1
bbc
Unfortunately it's not a case of want, it's a case of need. There is limited job availability as is.
208
24/11/2020 16:49:03 11 2
bbc
But you made that up, as usual.
362
24/11/2020 17:12:39 12 8
bbc
Because you’re paid double if not more in private sector for same job
471
24/11/2020 17:28:34 3 2
bbc
I don't know in which part of the Public Sector you might work but all I can say is that in both teaching and local government one is expected to go in unless signed off by your doctor.
475
24/11/2020 17:29:33 0 1
bbc
Not true mate.. support staff have to take first two days unpaid.. read the contract!
490
24/11/2020 17:31:46 10 2
bbc
I used to work in the Public Sector for a local authority. It was made very clear that a cold or stomach bug didn't constitute sickness, and medical appointments were deducted from your annual leave allowance, regardless of the nature. In my case it was cancer so there were quite a few! I'm afraid it's a myth that PS is a cushy number.
534
24/11/2020 17:40:57 0 9
bbc
You do realise the reason the public sector isn’t as efficient as it could be is because they have pay peanuts to employ monkeys
551
24/11/2020 17:24:19 4 3
bbc
Public sector has very punitive policies on absence. Even Covid absence was questioned until put right
552
24/11/2020 17:24:25 7 2
bbc
I worked in the public sector for over 30 years (fire service) and now work in the private sector. I know which one treats its employees better and it aint the public sector.
795
24/11/2020 18:41:44 0 1
bbc
Because public sector is saturated.
833
24/11/2020 18:53:31 3 0
bbc
Public sector a,so runs the three episodes or 10 days and you are put on report old you. Stage 1 warning, stage 2 final warning, stage 3 dismissal. Even serious injuries and illnesses and cancer are included.
986
24/11/2020 23:53:25 0 0
bbc
Thereby demonstrating why the public sector should be paid considerably less. In need of a big pay cut across the lot not mere slow gentle freezes. Worst aspect is the pushing of such behavoirs out to proper commercial world expectations. Ending in us having no manufacturing, etc. Too easy get a State job, relax.
994
25/11/2020 06:07:28 0 0
bbc
Great advice, so do tell who in the "public sector", tends the farms, produces food in factories, keeps the power & gas flowing, staffs the shops, drives the delivery vans etc... etc.. ???

It's beyond me that if the Public sector is full of imbeciles like you as to why you haven't been sacked yet...
46
24/11/2020 16:21:27 348 10
bbc
Many employers, such as mine, have this policy. If have three periods of sickness (Covid symptoms doesn’t count at my employer ) you will get disciplined. Employees are scared and worried about getting a warning. Hence why get them coming to work full of cold.

Perhaps the govt needs to understand the situation. Employers do this to discourage employees doing sickies
164
24/11/2020 16:42:20 208 5
bbc
Yes, Three periods of absence or 10 days off sick in a rolling 12 month period and it is automatic review. Sacking people with absence records which contravene the absence policy is the easiest thing in the world as the evidence is irrefutable. And that is public sector, god knows what the private sector is like.
198
24/11/2020 16:47:10 4 2
bbc
I assume you work for a council too? Ours is 3 absences in 3 month or 6 in a year. I called in sick once and was asked to work at home. They don't do that if drs suggested time off though
308
24/11/2020 16:53:49 5 1
bbc
I have experienced this as a fitness class instructor where desk colleagues infect us by "soldiering on" causing us to take for example 3 hours off on separate days, then go to hearing after hearing to excuse why our attendance is so appalling. Managers (if present) should check all staff upon entering whether they are fit for work or not, however this decision is left entirely to the individual.
398
24/11/2020 17:17:15 1 18
bbc
If you are worried coming to work "full of cold",..if you can walk, eat, breath, you can work.
526
24/11/2020 17:39:34 7 2
bbc
Those kind of practices flourish under a Tory government.
676
24/11/2020 18:10:23 1 2
bbc
"If have three periods of sickness"? Are you really expecting us to believe that any number of people have three periods of cold/flu in a single year and THAT is the reason why they turn up to work 'sick'? Poppycock!
728
24/11/2020 18:24:03 0 0
bbc
The thing is that if everyone stopped turning up to work while sick then the amount of bugs flying around would be drastically reduced and none of us would get sick so often.
960
24/11/2020 21:46:39 0 0
bbc
For Managers it is hard. I used to question illnesses which involved just Friday or Monday off. No need to self-cert, but if they happen too often you do wonder. Have also sent people home rather than infect rest of team, and insisted someone saw their GP when I thought they weren't well or had come back too soon. Latter options reduced quick sickies in rest of team.You have to care about staff.
13
24/11/2020 16:15:19 11 9
bbc
About time. There's always one in the office who comes in, does nothing, tells everyone how ill they are and then spreads the infection across the office, meaning half the staff are now off. Go home stay at home till you are better. Or, here's a novel approach, increase your hygiene levels and avoid being the one who's always ill, in the first place.
47
24/11/2020 16:21:37 10 0
bbc
Are you saying that sick people are unhygienic?
48
24/11/2020 16:14:57 95 4
bbc
My employer does not pay anything for the first three days of any sickness absence - that's why people might go in.
543
24/11/2020 17:42:41 20 2
bbc
You need a union
49
24/11/2020 16:15:10 101 4
bbc
Maybe it's because people can't afford to be off sick. SSP is a pittance, and only pays out on the 4th day of being off
944
24/11/2020 20:42:50 6 1
bbc
"and only pays out on the 4th day of being off"

Oh COME ON .... you don't need to eat, keep warm, pay your mortgage etc until you have been sick for 4 days.

:-D
50
24/11/2020 16:15:47 16 3
bbc
But if we take time off when we have a sniffle - how long will it be before this Government berates us for Skiving?
51
24/11/2020 16:21:46 7 14
bbc
Utter rubbish

What doesn't kill you make you stronger isn't an old wives tail or Nietzsche tosh it has basis in fact

Mammalian immune systems have evolved for social living in primates for millions of years

When we don't use them - they turn on us hence the auto-immune epidemics we have caused by being scared

Being too ill to work is one thing - having a sniffle is quite another
180
24/11/2020 16:45:23 0 0
bbc
Utter rubbish is to present a partial picture as if it were the whole picture.

Spreading a cold around the office makes us all far less productive, more likely to make mistakes, and cost the company invisible money.

What is a mild cold for me might be a disaster for a colleague / their household. How arrogant to assume I'm alright (Jack) and fkk you if you're not.
41
24/11/2020 16:20:01 130 6
bbc
Better improve SSP then or forced companies that are too tight to offer sickpay to do so.

You know like with the law.
52
24/11/2020 16:21:54 44 2
bbc
Spot on!!
24
24/11/2020 16:18:04 301 8
bbc
With statutory sick pay set at £94 a week, people aren’t soldiering on for fun. They’re going to work when sick because they can’t afford to stay home and recover. We need a better sick pay system here, we have the lowest amount of sick pay in Europe and this needs to change.
53
RSA
24/11/2020 16:22:00 4 5
bbc
How do we fare in the National Insurance and tax payments in Europe. Pay more in, get more out.
333
24/11/2020 17:07:23 10 2
bbc
Personal income tax rate in the UK sits at 45% (when NI payments are included as well). EU average is 37.1%. Europe overall has an average of 41.7%. So we pay more and get less out.
356
OwO
24/11/2020 17:11:09 3 0
bbc
Pay in more, have less. Watch the machinations of bureaucracy reduce the value of your input, compared to if your spent it yourself.

The only nations in the EU with high taxes where people receive more *coincidentally* also have massive reserves of oil. Even with that, they still have to pay ludicrous amounts.
33
24/11/2020 16:19:05 20 0
bbc
Some years back, the boss at my firm gave a warning that anyone taking more than a set number of sickies in a year would face disciplinary action. Some people rapidly worked out that if they kept their sickies to this number minus one, they were fireproof.
54
24/11/2020 16:22:19 10 0
bbc
Problem then is if they become genuinely too ill to work during the time period after having their alloted number of sick days.
20
24/11/2020 16:16:56 15 0
bbc
Works in an ideal world but who will cover for all the staff absent with a cold?
55
24/11/2020 16:22:36 4 6
bbc
Your comment is implicitly assuming that the number of people likely to be absent with a cold would be similar to previous experience. If people abide by the advice to stay at home, then it should become a much rarer occurrence than in the past.
92
24/11/2020 16:30:51 0 0
bbc
I agree should reduce prevalence but I would think main reservoir of infection will remain children who get up to 10 colds a year.
56
24/11/2020 16:23:01 8 9
bbc
Further proof, not that any was needed, that the political 'elite' are so far removed from the real day to day lives - and financial hardships - of 'normal' people.
Anyway, I thought most people were supposed to be working from home, so this is a largely redundant comment - Then again, so is most of what this Government has to say.
170
24/11/2020 16:43:10 0 0
bbc
"supposed to be working from home" is not "are legally entitled to work from home" - hence I'm an the office with 1000 others, many of whom are extremely vulnerable, and 3 were sent home yesterday with obvious covid...
57
24/11/2020 16:23:15 193 4
bbc
This is so true in this country, but mainly from my experience due to being made to feel like a liar if you actually phone in sick.

Ive spent the last 8 tears working for a Dutch company, a few years ago my boss got particularly annoyed i turned up for work with some cold symptoms and sent me home immediately.

Same scenario in the UK 'just get into work and get on with it you big girls blouse'
182
24/11/2020 16:45:47 82 5
bbc
I have sent staff with symptoms home in the past. It's irresponsible and disrespects their colleagues. Plus sick people don't work as effectively and recover faster at home.
411
24/11/2020 17:19:07 0 4
bbc
Yes. get on with it you BGB: you're conflating a situ.
444
24/11/2020 17:23:56 11 0
bbc
My boss is one that takes great delight in telling us, his staff, that he hasn't had a sick day in years.
If we are sick, we have to go in to prove how sick we are & then, if he deems us ill enough, we can go home sick.
Personally, I'd rather work from home, as much as I'm able, until I feel well enough to return to the office, but he doesn't trust us to wfh either...it's a no win situation
701
24/11/2020 18:16:52 4 0
bbc
You want to work for this countries Postal service, every supervisor and manager think they’re consultant surgeons ??
790
24/11/2020 18:39:29 1 2
bbc
And isn't it down to all of us to CHANGE this? If only EVERYONE followed the BASICS as we are supposedly doing with COVID19 'Hands, Face, Space' indoors AND OUTDOORS then there would be far fewer cases of 'colds and flu'. As for 'made to feel like a liar', this can only be the case if you allow yourself to feel that way. Down to you to 'stand your grown'!
920
24/11/2020 19:43:45 1 0
bbc
I have been sent home by UK companies a couple of times. "thanks for making the effort, but you really don;t look well"!
25/11/2020 10:03:32 0 0
bbc
I've noticed that in the UK as well, spent the last 20 years working in Australia and going to work while unwell means being sent home as your just going to infect other staff. Better having one person off sick than infecting everyone.

Been in the UK for 2+ years now and seems like people are fine to come in and infect everyone else. Covid has been an exception lately though.
58
24/11/2020 16:24:19 13 1
bbc
Say what you like, but what he is proposing is pretty radical and could improve health in the UK

Gone are the days when "a bug is going around" we can now be specific and clamp down on bugs that are hidden in society. We are putting in place things that will stop us having future lockdowns.

Of course - politicians are clowns etc. But can we all just agree this is a positive idea?
163
24/11/2020 16:42:12 5 2
bbc
It's what we all used to do in the olden days, before the Tory governments removed employees' rights, reduced SSP, reduced GP availability, allowed GPOs to charge for a sick note...

Some employers are painfully Ebenezer Scrooge, living in some weird Dickensian time in their heads. Absent = skiving = no pay = sacked. Simples.

The same applies to WFH which, evidenced ad infinitum, can be better.
881
24/11/2020 19:06:56 0 0
bbc
Don’t be fooled. Nothing to do with improving people’s health.This is privatisation of NHS pathology services by the back door. When this is over the private Lighthouse labs will pick up routine Pathology testing contracts (stack them high & sell them cheap but make a profit tests) while NHS labs will be left with non profitable services such as emergency testing and expensive specialist testing
25/11/2020 11:29:34 0 0
bbc
Now they just need to make sure that everyone is paid a living wage when they are ill.
59
24/11/2020 16:24:27 26 1
bbc
As an employer, I've always told people to go home if they come in with a cold. If they come in, they won't be very productive, and they'll also pass it on to everyone else, making the whole team less productive.

However, I realise that some employers haven't worked out this simple fact. Also, some employees like gaming the system, but generally they're not that hard to discover.
344
24/11/2020 16:59:11 7 0
bbc
You are a very considerate employer, one of the few, many more should follow your example.
888
24/11/2020 19:08:59 0 0
bbc
Agreed. I run an SME and give full pay immediately for sickness (capped at 12 months full pay after 15 years’ service). I have low levels of absenteeism on the whole. If you’re a fair employer, staff largely WANT to come to work if they can, so the problem doesn’t really arise. Treat them poorly and they'll work damn hard to get one over you. Obvious.
60
24/11/2020 16:16:42 26 4
bbc
If those who work in front line public services (police, teachers, nurses and doctors - especially GPs) stopped work every time they had a runny nose or 'felt one degree under' - the whole system would collapse instantly.
396
24/11/2020 17:08:19 4 0
bbc
It certainly would but this is because the understaffed services are hanging by a thread. The system should be improved to support you when you are ill, so that you or the service you work for is not disadvantaged, especially when you have the potential to infect so many more people. Being ill ultimately affects the quality of service given, especially in critical professions.
61
24/11/2020 16:17:09 20 0
bbc
Stat pay could make you homeless very quickly.
62
24/11/2020 16:18:02 9 5
bbc
As a teacher whats the point. Easier to struggle in as still have to set work from home and get constant e mails. Puts the rest of the staff under stress to cover you being off as well. You stay off and return to ten times more work
128
24/11/2020 16:37:20 1 0
bbc
Sorry, but Teachers are not special in this regard, pretty much same for all jobs.
147
24/11/2020 16:32:26 1 0
bbc
Plus you still have to catch up on any work you didn't do while you were off.
63
24/11/2020 16:24:32 146 3
bbc
Perhaps he needs to penalise the large companies who utilise the Bradford Scale to penalise their staff, and force them to come to work out of fear of losing their jobs.
127
24/11/2020 16:37:07 47 4
bbc
Some police forces use it.
An absolute menace.
137
24/11/2020 16:39:09 7 3
bbc
Whether the Bradford scale is correct or not there is certainly a minority of the workforce who abuse sickness leave.
911
24/11/2020 19:31:52 0 0
bbc
As a small private employer we try to be fair to staff who are ill and to those who are still in work covering for them. It is not an easy balance. We don't use the Bradford Scale but it can make help make clear those who are perhaps not being fair either to the Company or to their colleagues. It should not be the final arbiter however.
64
24/11/2020 16:24:37 6 1
bbc
people should not go to work when sick!!..they should also not eat on the go without washing their hands!!!
10
24/11/2020 16:13:40 4 15
bbc
If this clown new any teachers he’d no what absolute tosh he’s talking.
65
24/11/2020 16:24:56 4 1
bbc
Its clear you don't, especially English teachers!
66
24/11/2020 16:24:56 11 0
bbc
Sickness presenteeism has been growing as a problem for years and interesting to see how a pandemic may change that trend. All research in this area suggests soldiering on may help in the short term but typically leads to bigger problems down the line. Employers need to be led more by the science.
709
24/11/2020 18:16:07 4 0
bbc
In my experience employers are led by profits and nothing else at the end of the day.
67
24/11/2020 16:25:55 14 3
bbc
Good idea. Now try getting it past the Rees-Mogg-type brigade. Forcing MPs in to the commons when remote working would have been better... mm. Can't see them being happy using tax payers' money for a national testing system, backed up by decent employment legislation and decent sick pay. Or am I being too cynical?
68
24/11/2020 16:25:55 4 0
bbc
Why do we see ourselves as unique in this country? “Soldiering on” when unwell (apparently) not obeying the rules around Covid, gathering en masse at the end of lockdown....

These, and more, are all perfectly typical of most western countries and their people.
69
24/11/2020 16:18:19 10 3
bbc
Hmm, I wonder if 10 years of NHS cuts and the atrocious statutory sick pay that's available has anything to do with this? Nah, must be the old stiff upper lip, that'll be why people work while sick. Peculiar old brits eh?
70
24/11/2020 16:19:39 4 3
bbc
I don't get paid for the first three days if I am off sick. If I'm able to work I go in. (We have an exception for Covid like symptoms and you get paid from day 1 if you get a test)
71
24/11/2020 16:26:50 2 4
bbc
Now that it is common practice to wear masks and are urged to do so by the government if you have a cold and need to go into work wear a mask.
91
24/11/2020 16:30:47 1 1
bbc
Just no. We need to get away from this idea that wearing a mask is normal. It is a temporary measure, and one that should be absolutely thrown in the bin (literally and figuratively) the minute these vaccines arrive. Noone wants them normalised.
72
24/11/2020 16:26:54 32 7
bbc
Get ur head out of your pampered backside ...the majority of workers get NO sick pay ..they MUST work ..or lose house / get behind in council tax ...ALL bills , direct debits et al ...SO if u dont like people struggling in to EARN a living ...YOU pay ALL workers their full weekly pay !!! what an imbecilic comment to come from someone in your position !!!!!!!!
116
24/11/2020 16:35:56 1 0
bbc
i
118
24/11/2020 16:36:18 1 3
bbc
Incoherent rant.
73
24/11/2020 16:27:09 26 2
bbc
People go to work when they're ill because they fear losing their job. Also, the fact that many companies have done away with decent sick pay. SSP isn't paying your bills.
74
24/11/2020 16:27:30 4 0
bbc
Weird, as before March, most companies were telling employees that unless you were at death's door, go to work, or will be penalised. Hopefully we return to some happy sensible middle-ground.
75
Nik
24/11/2020 16:27:30 8 0
bbc
Sick leave was considered as part of our holiday entitlement at one place I worked at. Coming from a retail background, where you`re expected to go in unless you`re dying I found this impossible to understand. I had managers encouraging me to take my two weeks sick leave before the end of the year, something I just couldn`t do. People even used to phone in sick from the airport...
76
24/11/2020 16:19:44 6 5
bbc
Thank you Mr. Hancock! To many Brits think they honorable of going to work coughing and sneezing.

No, you are just selfish.
90
24/11/2020 16:30:25 2 0
bbc
you are right, but if the choice is "go to work and sneeze and have a roof over your head" or "lose the roof over your head", then what do you do?

Unless people are off on full pay, then that hobson's choice will always exist.
77
24/11/2020 16:20:30 21 5
bbc
If you are self employed Mr Hancock you have to soldier on, you have no choice or you don't earn. You made sure of that during this Covid fiasco.
He really has no idea.
41
24/11/2020 16:20:01 130 6
bbc
Better improve SSP then or forced companies that are too tight to offer sickpay to do so.

You know like with the law.
78
24/11/2020 16:21:51 3 1
bbc
Nah why make laws when you can kindly ask or recommend they do it, I mean yes that's never worked before, but maybe this time it will.
79
24/11/2020 16:28:52 28 1
bbc
Many people go to work ill because there's disciplinaries and investigations that happen if you are off ill.

Eg the green supermarket has a three strike system: if you're off for 3 seperate ocassions due to sickness in 12 months rolling, you can be dismissed. I suspect there's similar in many retail jobs
850
24/11/2020 18:57:02 0 0
bbc
Same in the public sector.
80
24/11/2020 16:22:57 3 0
bbc
Not peculiar to the UK at all. Kiwis just take their concrete pills and turn up, even with tissue stuffed up their noses to stop the drips. Kiwis have no SSP and normally only 2 weeks sick leave so they go to work or don't get paid. I wonder how 'working from home' affects the working when sick culture going forward.
36
24/11/2020 16:19:38 36 5
bbc
He's a complete idiot doesn't he realise some of us miss out on the first three days of being sick.
81
24/11/2020 16:23:09 24 2
bbc
You have to remember, mps get paid even if they don't go to work, so his perception of reality is a bit warped in comparison to ours.
36
24/11/2020 16:19:38 36 5
bbc
He's a complete idiot doesn't he realise some of us miss out on the first three days of being sick.
82
24/11/2020 16:23:35 1 0
bbc
it's a really stupid rule, it doesn't encourage you to go back if you feel better until the third day anyway so you can get some pay for it.
83
24/11/2020 16:29:07 4 1
bbc
I'm the last person to defend Hancock but do you really think he HASN'T been told that SSP only kicks in after 3/4 days, or that some companies discriminate against workers who take too much sick leave? Or that he doesn't know?

Or perhaps these are just empty words to make him appear "caring" as opposed to his boss's "get back to work!" attitude? Perhaps in preparation for a leadership challenge?
84
Abz
24/11/2020 16:29:17 2 2
bbc
What a total fool this man is. Who is paying for all this? Not us when they have killed hundreds of thousands by stopping or slowing vital treatments for cancer and such. Which need to now be prioritised. Also, staying healthy in the first place means them reducing healthy food costs and adding extreme taxes to bad foods.
85
24/11/2020 16:29:33 6 2
bbc
He's right and you are all right.What is needed is decent sick pay and less pandering to bad employers and their bad practices.
Minister Hancock may have a job of persuading the Marley,Scrooge and Gradgrind brigade in the Neo Con structure of Govt, to behave like human beings.
10
24/11/2020 16:13:40 4 15
bbc
If this clown new any teachers he’d no what absolute tosh he’s talking.
86
RSA
24/11/2020 16:29:39 2 1
bbc
It doesn't look like you knew many teachers!
38
24/11/2020 16:19:44 8 2
bbc
Easy to say now half of us working at home!

If he said that in Jan he’d have been sacked!
87
24/11/2020 16:29:45 1 2
bbc
He should have been sacked back in the spring of this year, as all he has proved to be is nothing but a big liar and highly incompetent.
88
24/11/2020 16:29:48 7 2
bbc
Get a doctors certificate if you are ill. If your employer sacks you for being off take them to a tribunal for unfair dismissal.
105
24/11/2020 16:33:47 1 1
bbc
There is case law where even medically certified sickness absences can result in dismissal. Something to do with breach of contract or failing to provide work, can't remember the details exactly but something to be aware of.
108
24/11/2020 16:34:21 1 1
bbc
It’s not as simple as that. Previously taking companies to an employment tribunal was much more simple than it is today. I believe the last Tory government made sure it was particularly difficult and costly. The fees now are quite eye watering.
110
24/11/2020 16:34:53 2 1
bbc
You need to be in a job for 2 years before you can take your employer to a tribunal . It used to be 1 year - until the Tories changed it !!!
112
24/11/2020 16:34:59 1 0
bbc
I think there's quite a backlog for tribunal hearings due to other government cuts.
115
24/11/2020 16:35:49 1 0
bbc
Not that simple, an employee can be sacked because of persistent or long term illness so not as simple as you make out.
123
24/11/2020 16:36:54 1 1
bbc
That may be true in the year 1990. Certainly not useful now. GPs don't give sick notes; most charge £45 for them, and you need an appointment - but they are closed - and as others will attest, appointments for a sick note are not going to happen.

With less than 2 years employment, get nothing at all. Win a fortnight's wages and can't find a new job for the next ??? years. Not helpful.
263
LG
24/11/2020 16:57:27 0 0
bbc
...and it the meantime?
365
24/11/2020 17:12:58 0 0
bbc
Try it

You won’t win
89
24/11/2020 16:29:51 14 2
bbc
And as for company policies that discipline for time of sick (had a job where 3+ in a year was the threshold), you going to deal with that?
76
24/11/2020 16:19:44 6 5
bbc
Thank you Mr. Hancock! To many Brits think they honorable of going to work coughing and sneezing.

No, you are just selfish.
90
24/11/2020 16:30:25 2 0
bbc
you are right, but if the choice is "go to work and sneeze and have a roof over your head" or "lose the roof over your head", then what do you do?

Unless people are off on full pay, then that hobson's choice will always exist.
153
24/11/2020 16:41:02 0 0
bbc
or put it another way. If a colleague tried to exclude you from the office because you may have a cold (even if you didn't), and you lost a days pay, how would you feel?
71
24/11/2020 16:26:50 2 4
bbc
Now that it is common practice to wear masks and are urged to do so by the government if you have a cold and need to go into work wear a mask.
91
24/11/2020 16:30:47 1 1
bbc
Just no. We need to get away from this idea that wearing a mask is normal. It is a temporary measure, and one that should be absolutely thrown in the bin (literally and figuratively) the minute these vaccines arrive. Noone wants them normalised.
55
24/11/2020 16:22:36 4 6
bbc
Your comment is implicitly assuming that the number of people likely to be absent with a cold would be similar to previous experience. If people abide by the advice to stay at home, then it should become a much rarer occurrence than in the past.
92
24/11/2020 16:30:51 0 0
bbc
I agree should reduce prevalence but I would think main reservoir of infection will remain children who get up to 10 colds a year.
224
24/11/2020 16:50:58 0 0
bbc
so, reducing the spread of a cold by not going to work and spreading it *won't* reduce the spread of a cold - to toher people - who might have kids - who might spread it to other people - who might have jobs...

What on earth was lockdown for, or are you not thinking it all the way through?
93
24/11/2020 16:30:54 0 0
bbc
There go the Beechams ads...!
142
24/11/2020 16:39:21 0 0
bbc
94
24/11/2020 16:30:55 17 1
bbc
Like people have said, some people can't afford to go off sick or are threatened with disciplinary action (I've worked for one of those companies, never taken a day off sick in 3 years and didn't get sick pay - pleasant company they were) so therefore everyone else gets sick
17
24/11/2020 16:16:29 270 5
bbc
Whilst I totally agree, your absence record can and will be used against you - end that and then people might stay off - oh yes hey need paying too
95
JGC
24/11/2020 16:31:38 171 6
bbc
I agree, I've seen it where two employees were rated the same, so the one that got made redundant was the one that had taken more time off sick.
230
24/11/2020 16:52:17 8 10
bbc
Seems perfectly rational to me. presumably you would sack the person with the good attendance record?
361
24/11/2020 17:12:03 8 1
bbc
Same here except these two had had 42 and 43 days off sick in a year and took all their holidays. We also had one who decided she could be bothered to come in due to snow and then posted on FB what a great time she was having throwing snowballs in the park. Waste of oxygen.
425
24/11/2020 17:21:23 1 2
bbc
Fair enough surely?
426
24/11/2020 17:21:26 2 7
bbc
That's illegal......you cannot take sickness into account when deciding who to make redundant. If that really was the reason the employer gave, then they should be taken to a tribunal.
652
24/11/2020 18:00:44 5 0
bbc
"I agree, I've seen it where two employees were rated the same, so the one that got made redundant was the one that had taken more time off sick."

So have I. Time off sick is one of the factors typically used in a weighted scoring model for selecting candidates for redundancy.
666
24/11/2020 18:07:46 0 2
bbc
Perhaps the reality is that the one who had taken less time off sick had actually taken more basic precautions not to fall sick in the first place!
96
24/11/2020 16:32:02 2 2
bbc
That stems from a culture his party created by not taking care of workers rights. It effects everyone. How is it that a nation that has the NHS, famously caring nurses, be infamous for jokes about having wimpy men who make the worst of illness when women work through it? Conservativism. Hypocrisy arrives from those whom you expect it of.
97
24/11/2020 16:32:24 10 3
bbc
The gall of this awful man knows no bounds. A forgettable bureaucrat with his head up his horse.
98
24/11/2020 16:32:29 3 0
bbc
I completely agree, although it’s almost impossible to get a timely appointment at your GP to get tested or diagnosed for anything, it’s been like this for years.
99
24/11/2020 16:32:31 5 0
bbc
It is not just the British attitude towards 'soldiering on', it also comes down to the way companies almost criminalise people for being ill. Yes a lot of malingering does go on, but using the Bradford scoring system as a stick to beat people up with for having the temerity to be ill means that those with genuine illnesses - that they did not ask for, end up being punished alongside the guilty.
100
24/11/2020 16:32:38 3 1
bbc
My daughter in law has taken 1 day off (last year) sick in 3 years and boy was she poorly. Her company gave her a disciplinary on her return to work despite it being obvious she still wasn't well. Unbelievable - but that's why folks struggle in.