Covid: PPE price rises cost taxpayers £10bn, report says
25/11/2020 | news | health | 1,222
"Inadequate" stockpiles meant the government had to boost supplies quickly, the spending watchdog says.
1
25/11/2020 10:27:28 136 31
bbc
It isn't "hindsight" to ask difficult questions over government spending / cronyism.
462
25/11/2020 12:22:01 61 7
bbc
Indeed not. Especially when leaked documents seen by Good Law Project set out special pathways by which “VIP” and “Cabinet Office” contacts could be awarded lucrative PPE contracts at the height of the pandemic – and at inflated prices.

https://goodlawproject.org/news/special-procurement-channels/
553
25/11/2020 13:09:49 10 1
bbc
It is perfectly reasonable to criticise with hindsight those we have voted to govern us who should have had foresight and didn't (or did but ignored it).
26/11/2020 06:27:22 1 0
bbc
It's ridiculous. Next time maybe the government will think twice and decide to either delay or not buy vital equipment because the price has gone up and then what?
2
25/11/2020 10:28:03 2 10
bbc
useless
3
25/11/2020 10:30:10 10 20
bbc
As the majority of taxpayers take more out of the system than they put in it is highly unlikely that it has cost them anything.
28
25/11/2020 10:35:41 2 6
bbc
Always interested in down votes on these type of comments - its down voting fact, not opinion! The average person directly and indirectly takes far more from the system than they put in.
420
25/11/2020 11:56:30 3 1
bbc
Stupid thing to say - that money could be spent on education, the NHS, the roads etc . You're a ToryBrexit government apologist
4
25/11/2020 10:31:24 289 38
bbc
We understand that profiteering will go on in these strange times, but that doesnt mean we should ignore contracts being offered to people or companies for which ministers have a vested interest.

A full independent enquiry is required into PPE spending
224
25/11/2020 11:16:41 96 164
bbc
When you are marooned in a desert desperate for water is matters not how much it costs, nor who sells it to you.

You just need water.
279
25/11/2020 11:30:40 20 59
bbc
It's not profiteering. It's the simple economics of supply and demand. If you want something that's in short supply, then you have to pay for it!
578
25/11/2020 13:18:04 8 3
bbc
Couldn’t agree more
And for Boris’s chums who have profiteered maybe a good old fashioned spell in a clinker or in some stocks
645
25/11/2020 13:30:21 3 5
bbc
So you would have been happier if we had followed the usual tendering process, taken months to get around to agreeing a contract at a vastly inflated price (as ever with Govt contracts) and not had the items available at the time when they were needed?
The £10bn figure is absolute garbage of the worst kind- saying it could have been saved by magically buying in advance without knowing you need it.
970
25/11/2020 14:49:04 1 2
bbc
There is going to be one.... there are rules, if anyone has broken the rules then they will identified and dealt with...

This is not new, this is normal on all Government spending......

How many times have you told a pal that there is opportunity somewhere? why should they be any different? so long as it was done within the rules
25/11/2020 16:24:49 1 0
bbc
The trouble is any Independant Enquiry will be dragged out for a year or so, then never published or acted upon, but may be heavily redacted.
And the independancy depends on whether Gove will get involved in setting up the composition of the independant group looking into it

Cynical ..... maybe, but probably right all the same
26/11/2020 09:30:07 0 0
bbc
Lessons will be learned !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL
5
25/11/2020 10:31:31 18 18
bbc
Can you imagine what Labour would have said if the Government spent £5 Billion a year before the pandemic on PPE, that no-one knew we would need?
64
25/11/2020 10:41:27 9 4
bbc
That’s the point it would have cost a fraction of £10 billion to maintain and turnover a national stock of PPE ready for emergencies
689
25/11/2020 13:37:47 2 0
bbc
We knew it would be needed at some point. The Government chose to ignore a report telling them they'd need it and it would have cost nothing like £5 billion/year

What this Government and its apologists like yourself are doing is dressing up foresight as hindsight, with a unhealthy dose of exaggeration stuck on top, to create a smokescreen behind which utter incompetence can hide.
6
25/11/2020 10:31:50 210 53
bbc
The findings of Exercise Cygnus in 2016 were that the UK's preparedness and response were not sufficient to cope with a severe pandemic.

The Tory government did nothing and now we see the effects of their neglect.
46
25/11/2020 10:39:05 79 50
bbc
The reality is all governments of both leanings hold these exercises for many different scenarios and they do not action the findings on most of them because to do so for all these just in case scenarios is unaffordable. Their main point is to highlight the likely problems that will need to addressed if this event occurs
147
25/11/2020 10:58:44 22 12
bbc
And what will people do? Ignore the Covid mis-management; ignore the chaos of the Tory Brexit; ignore the bullying; ignore the lack of any progress for this country over the last 10 years - and re-elect the Tories in 2025.
171
25/11/2020 11:02:32 8 12
bbc
The results were shared across all four UK health services, collectively they had the same response, and theyre quietly trying to dodge the question on whether they were told!
203
25/11/2020 11:10:45 12 7
bbc
Absolutely. And the 'establishment' have got it down to a fine art to plant Toryfied opinions in peoples minds.
303
25/11/2020 11:34:59 13 3
bbc
Following the (much bigger) Exercise Winter Willow, UK stockpile of drugs & PPE rose 80% from 2008-2011.
Much of the drug stock (Tamiflu) & some PPE (e.g. aprons, not gowns) targetted flu - but a lot (masks, gloves) would still have been useful in 2020.

Or it would have been, if the govt hadn't let the stock run down from 2013 to save £325m
521
25/11/2020 13:00:33 3 5
bbc
13 years of previous Labour governments did nothing either, so the blame lies at least partly with them.
588
25/11/2020 13:20:07 3 2
bbc
NHS Trusts had access to the findings of Cygnus and didn't prepare. It's not the government's responsibility to provide PPE.
726
25/11/2020 13:42:48 3 0
bbc
What about the exercise in 2019 that found the UK and USA best prepared for a pandemic. Alas, it was a flu pandemic we were well prepared for. Also read the PHE response that they were in the middle of acting on the recommendations of 2019 when the pandemic struck and normal procurement rules that would have acquired the stuff in about 6 months would have been of little use.
949
25/11/2020 14:35:03 0 0
bbc
Indeed, right across Europe and the World - Tories to blame!
26/11/2020 07:20:53 0 0
bbc
Never mind, you will have a Labour majority at the next election, but in reality the unions will be running the country. Just think nothing msnufactured because of permanent strikes. Back to the 70's anyone, unfortunately many alive today weren't born then.
7
25/11/2020 10:32:36 47 34
bbc
Another lose lose for any government. If they had spent money on this in prior years to build up stocks it would have been called a waste with no Pandemic in site. Now its called a waste as supply/demand pushed up prices when the need was unexpectedly there.
34
25/11/2020 10:36:31 23 19
bbc
Successive governments invested heavily in nuclear defence. Was that a waste?
50
25/11/2020 10:39:45 7 5
bbc
Not a waste because the stock would have been used before it’s expiry date and replaced with new stock
158
25/11/2020 11:00:55 3 2
bbc
You also need to consider the time element - some of this equipment is only usable for a few years, after which it must be disposed of
8
25/11/2020 10:32:37 111 31
bbc
The Tories’ friends have done very well out of the Covid crisis with companies/individuals with no record of Covid-related success, but that just so happen to have links with the Tory party, receiving contracts and highly-paid jobs. Johnson, meanwhile, hopes for ‘Boris Saves Christmas’ headlines from his friends in the Press so that we can all forget the whole thing.
441
25/11/2020 12:07:52 51 15
bbc
I'm afraid to say that that is not a Tory only policy. It's the 'privilege' of ruling parties. It wasn't that long ago that the then labour run Monklands council gave almost every council building contract to companies run by their family and friends. Its called abuse of power and it runs across the entire political spectrum.
25/11/2020 16:21:03 2 0
bbc
The difference is that the government can and have wrecked the country in the process. Councillors rarely have the chance to go that far.
Think of what money we could have invested in the people of the UK by not volunteering for wars, rip off useless military kit, computerisation scams, tax breaks, non Dom’s, flogging UK assets to buy imported stuff.
Yet we keep voting the way the Mail tells us.
26/11/2020 06:28:08 1 0
bbc
Meanwhile back in the early 2000s it was Blair and Browns mates all getting contracts to build new hospitals.
9
25/11/2020 10:32:54 2 3
bbc
in the caption comp at
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-55064806

Trump "thats a beautiful turkey gobbler you have got"
10
25/11/2020 10:33:09 214 20
bbc
The volumes of PPE wasted due to being unsuitable highlights the problems of the loss of domestic manufacturing over decades: had we been able to make more of our own, we would have known what our standards were and ensured nothing was wasted to the extent that has been.
51
25/11/2020 10:39:49 73 86
bbc
We could have made more of our own - we had 10m people on furlough being paid by the gov't to sit at home. Surely they could have been put to good use? Is that not a fair quid pro quo for being helped out by the taxpayer?
70
25/11/2020 10:42:20 12 3
bbc
0.49%!
136
25/11/2020 10:54:55 24 11
bbc
Drop Maggie T a line on that one - she took us down the service economy route - and unregulated financial services.
156
25/11/2020 11:00:28 3 2
bbc
Maybe those poor b*ggers who worked for BooHoo ? Theyd be caught again and paid as little.
190
25/11/2020 11:07:29 13 18
bbc
But people will keep on voting Tory.
195
25/11/2020 11:08:46 7 6
bbc
Good point. Perhaps backing our own capability to start manufacturing items to make us more self-sufficient would be a smarter plan. I'd set up an business for £5bln. The same can be said across a few sectors of National / Strategic importance including Ship Building / Defence etc ...
213
25/11/2020 11:13:30 8 2
bbc
Agree, but the prices would have been even higher, when you consider a Chinese worker will cost significantly less than a UK worker, in 2019 the average wage in manufacturing in china was £8.500, at minimum wage in the UK would be double that.

Adding in other costs and assuming you can get people to work in the industry that would double the price of the PPE.
252
25/11/2020 11:25:45 4 3
bbc
I totally agree. Last week I needed to buy some sheets of sandpaper for a DIY project. The only available sandpaper was imported from France or Germany. Its come to something when UK don't have the means to make sandpaper. There are several examples like this.

We need manufacturing back to provide the young with a living wage which they don't always get working in the service sector
273
25/11/2020 11:29:01 5 3
bbc
Just because PPE isn't suitable for one purpose doesn't mean it cannot be used for something else. It's shameful to see the quantity of waste generated because PPE hasn't met one user's particular specification!
281
25/11/2020 11:31:10 7 3
bbc
Good luck training 10 mil to make specialist equipment...or do you want more shoddy ppe?
334
25/11/2020 11:40:26 1 1
bbc
Doubt that anybody had assumed that such large quantities would be needed, despite predictions done before. Existing stockpiles were not regularly updated since the last 2009 pandemic so a lot of it had gone past the use by date.

Since January, UK manufacturers were selling to the Far East, which was when I bought face masks made in UK.

Also lacked machines to make blow melt, now plentiful
347
25/11/2020 11:43:26 2 0
bbc
The amount wasted on unsuitable PPE highlights the issue of awarding contracts to mates without clear specifications and no penalty clauses to claw back the money if the goods were not up to the required standard.

It seems that we were buying substandard goods from party mates (at inflated prices plus "finders fees"), and ignoring UK standards manufacturers who ended up exporting to Italy.
417
25/11/2020 11:56:12 1 1
bbc
Absolutely correct, it’s the equivalent of us placing an order for tanks with Adolf Hitler in May 1940. Then trying to strike the enemy down with a suitcase full of cash. This is our Boris inflicted darkest hour2.
469
Ian
25/11/2020 12:25:54 2 0
bbc
Every country in the world was caught out by the lack of available PPE. Unfortunately, manufacturing has turned to just in time and gotten very good at it. To switch manufacturing to PPE would require the purchase of raw materials which just weren't available. The Gov. just like the public, resorted to panic buying to appease moaners who thought not enough was being done.
486
25/11/2020 12:45:11 2 0
bbc
Do you imagine British companies would have charged less? With higher labour costs?

All standards are the same throughout the EU for PPE, and usually stricter in other places such as the US.

This is nothing but a typical failure by the tories in their usual practice of stripping all public service to the bone, the pandemic simply shines a spotlight on their greed.
495
25/11/2020 12:49:48 1 0
bbc
You're confusing unsuitable with not having a tick from the right department
606
25/11/2020 13:24:06 0 0
bbc
Yes, those huge volumes of less than 0.5%...
But Mr Johnson replied "99.5%" of the 32 billion items of PPE bought between February and July 2020 "conform entirely to our clinical needs".

Earlier, the Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) said "only 0.49% of all the purchased PPE tested to date" had not been fit for purpose.
25/11/2020 16:06:15 0 0
bbc
Yeah, captain hindsight. The reason that we didn't make PPE was that other places did it cheaper. The market wins, cheapest is best. Just when should we have decided that we couldn't trust the market? And whilst we about talking about capacity, shouldn't we thinking about what we might need if Brexit doesn't run smoothly with that oven-ready deal?
25/11/2020 18:33:34 0 0
bbc
There were UK manufacturers of PPE and medical equipment on TV recently with huge amount of stock that the Government/NHS/PHE didn’t even approach for orders.
Would have been cheaper than open market supplies of poor spec materials from the likes of China, Turkey etc. If not fraud then just sheer incompetence.
11
25/11/2020 10:33:12 34 25
bbc
We all knew this back in the spring and it's neither news nor surprising. There was a mad scramble for PPE and normal rules were discarded. What is the point of this report now? Pulic spending needs auditing of course, but what a misdirection of resources in what's still a national emergency. Wonder what the authors would have had to say if we were at war?
37
25/11/2020 10:36:58 22 12
bbc
this has to be signed of first as legal and above board,fraud squad needed
309
25/11/2020 11:36:08 7 0
bbc
there were spivs in the war , and there are spivs now
25/11/2020 15:38:23 1 0
bbc
So, the past should be ignored as the past?

Ace. Can I borrow your credit card? Feel free to not bother to audit my use of it after the event.
12
25/11/2020 10:33:15 12 15
bbc
This proves Tories have neglected contingency plans for short term gain. Now it has cost the taxpayer 10bn. Is the economy really safe in their hands?
13
25/11/2020 10:33:28 12 11
bbc
Clown car government from Boris and the morons in Westmonster
think your comment shows where the morons are - a lot closer to home Removed
14
25/11/2020 10:33:46 12 13
bbc
How many of you people rush out and buy a load of binbags before you can see the pile of shi** about to be dumped in your back yard?
Give it a rest.
27
25/11/2020 10:35:32 8 3
bbc
Have you heard of Exercise Cygnus?
15
25/11/2020 10:33:50 13 8
bbc
The TV program last night on the Govt handling at the outset was shocking. Leading experts ignored. The timeline of what the Govt didn't do was disgraceful. I was concerned the very first time that I heard 'we have taken the best scientific & medical advice'. That was always a ploy to have an oven ready excuse. We didn't learn anything from other countries. The PPE cronyism was a disgrace.
62
25/11/2020 10:41:18 2 4
bbc
Isn't hindsight wonderful! Things are rather different when you are in the thick of it.
16
25/11/2020 10:33:59 15 11
bbc
Worldwide pandemic increases demand, and prices rise. No s**t Sherlock. Oh! and bears defecate in the woods!
183
25/11/2020 11:05:36 0 1
bbc
And did you spot which country had stockpiled this equipment in preparation for selling it back to the world?
17
25/11/2020 10:34:27 68 37
bbc
Perhaps Boris said, "I don't care what it costs (we'll worry about that later) just make sure we procure sufficient PPE now to keep our front line staff safe."
159
25/11/2020 11:01:03 38 53
bbc
Yes, maybe. And maybe Corbyn was saying, "I don't care what it costs, just make sure we spend enough to build sufficient affordable houses to eradicate the housing crisis in this country once and for all".
173
b
25/11/2020 11:02:36 15 6
bbc
Yeah, and perhaps the fact that he had a briefing each day to try and explain himself on TV wasn't on his mind at all. "I don't care what it costs, as long as I have some good news to deliver on TV so I look a little less incompetent".
287
25/11/2020 11:32:13 7 3
bbc
Or perhaps he said "I don't care what it costs (we'll worry about that later) just make sure we procure sufficient PPE now to keep our critics quiet". Actually it was Cummings who wrote the script - Johnson was elsewhere at the time.
375
25/11/2020 11:48:21 6 1
bbc
The he is an idiot who isnt running the country properly.
421
25/11/2020 11:56:51 9 3
bbc
Johnson actually said - I'm too tired and too easily bored, Dominic you just give all the money to your mates and hire a pile of clowns to type obfuscating nonsense on the internet.
432
25/11/2020 12:04:09 8 0
bbc
You are pressuming a lot from Boris with that statement. Considering that the PPE stored in a run down ware house was not sufficient. Also foreign companies were given the sole responsibility to store the PPE in what ever condistions they see fit. Which meant ensuring they made a healthy profit.
541
25/11/2020 13:07:07 7 1
bbc
Maybe B Johnson said "It isn't a priority whilst we are busy Brexiteering."
18
25/11/2020 10:34:33 8 9
bbc
there was one hell of a fraud happening right under hancocks nose and he did nothing,imagine an american jeweller claiming to have gained 21million for just being a middleman,boris must be proud of his schemes that made our taxpayers look like a bunch of mugs,we were treated to a huge tory scandal that involves lords and ladies and plenty shysters,this could be really serious for the tories/
19
25/11/2020 10:34:34 71 29
bbc
And is this any different to any other country?

The reality is the whole world was underprepared and supply and demand meant prices rose in the short term so it inevitably cost us more.

We cannot turn the clock back so the real question is, will we learn from this and be better prepared should this happen again?

I certainly hope so.
321
25/11/2020 11:37:35 10 18
bbc
I doubt it unless there's a major change of government (ie anyone in the centre, not far left or right).
349
25/11/2020 11:43:38 6 2
bbc
Yes, it is different:
> Other gov'ts' stockpiles of PPE didn't fall by 40% in the last 6 years
> Other gov'ts didn't buy their PPE at inflated prices from companies with no experience producing it, like Ayanda Capital, who have never made PPE and were charging twice as much as other companies, and yet still won the contract... because of a recommendation by an ex-advisor to Liz Truss.

CRONYISM.
428
25/11/2020 12:02:28 3 2
bbc
This is definitely different to most other countries excepting those also run by blustering clowns who treated the crisis as an opportunity to enrich their friends. eg USA

5th highest death toll, but only 21st highest population, & a long way to go

The response has been disastrous. If you're being paid to post this you're not very good at it. If you AREN'T being paid, you should stop grovelling
918
25/11/2020 14:21:52 1 0
bbc
That's not true, quite a number of countries had contingency plans in place, including Germany and South Korea.

Of course Tory supporters will be desperate to vote your inaccurate comment up.
25/11/2020 15:28:46 1 0
bbc
And is this any different to any other country?

Yes. Other countries didn't have the benefit of the Nervtag report warning them that exactly this problem could happen. Other countries didn't rush around denying the problem and pretending there was plenty of PPE. Other countries didn't wait until it was far too late to do anything before doing too little.

As the NAO report explains.
20
25/11/2020 10:34:38 30 20
bbc
Meaningless to compare prices from before the outbreak with those being charged after when the whole world was chasing PPE and prices were bound to rise.
732
BZ
25/11/2020 13:43:44 0 2
bbc
Why? If you cover your costs what else do you need to do?
806
MM
25/11/2020 13:49:02 2 1
bbc
The whole world was chasing PPE but we had the chance to club together with our "friends and allies" to bulk purchase and negotiate prices, yet ideology trumped efficiency when it came to join Europe's Joint Procurement Agreement (JPA). There is no excuse whatsoever for this industrial squandering of taxpayer money.
21
25/11/2020 10:34:49 10 7
bbc
Business putting their profits before health and making a fortune from our misfortune
13
25/11/2020 10:33:28 12 11
bbc
Clown car government from Boris and the morons in Westmonster
22
bbc
think your comment shows where the morons are - a lot closer to home Removed
23
25/11/2020 10:35:09 15 10
bbc
Welcome to the chumocracy we are now living in.
24
25/11/2020 10:35:10 12 11
bbc
Only Boris & co could drag a positive out of this farce. They have to go.
25
Bob
25/11/2020 10:35:16 86 37
bbc
This is a little bit misleading as PPE expires. Therefore stockpiles would need to be constantly renewed. So over the great many years of zero pandemics that £10bn figure quickly diminishes.

Highly unlikely too that you would keep 32 billion items in storage, so additional items would have been needed at inflated prices anyway.
88
Bob
25/11/2020 10:45:12 76 26
bbc
"So over the great many years of zero pandemics that £10bn figure quickly diminishes."

____

SARS, MERS, Swine Flu, Bird Flu, Ebola...

There are constant risks, and these are all accounted for the in the governments own reports... which they chose to ignore.
162
25/11/2020 11:01:17 14 4
bbc
You're right about there being a cost of holding a stockpile. Still, stockpiles aren't just wasted without a pandemic - you use the oldest supplies and renew the stock with new. Storage space is the main cost, but probably not in the billions.
234
Bob
25/11/2020 11:20:25 8 3
bbc
It is also worth noting, that not having a pandemic in, say, 1975 is only relevant, if the reports said that a pandemic was highly likely in 1975. Which they didn't.

The recent reports though, did say that it was pretty much a certainty.
304
25/11/2020 11:35:16 6 2
bbc
Nope. It's used in smaller quantities all the time. Take the oldest from the strategic stockpile and replace with new. Not difficult if you WANT to do it, but remember this was in the era of everyone paying for the crooked bankers of 2008.
523
25/11/2020 13:01:09 3 1
bbc
Have you never heard of stock rotation?
539
25/11/2020 13:06:00 1 0
bbc
What a silly comment.
Do you not accept "A failure to anticipate what might be needed for anything other than a flu pandemic in essence cost the taxpayer £10bn"?
988
25/11/2020 15:00:00 0 0
bbc
Stock rotation
996
25/11/2020 15:06:04 1 0
bbc
Thats not really true.... you can only guarantee sterility for a certain period of time but gloves etc stop being sterile the moment you pull them on. If a plastic apron still looks like a plastic apron is perfectly useable whatever the date on the pack. I'm a research scientist BTW and happily use none-sterile PPE for none-sterile applications (which are most applications)
26
25/11/2020 10:35:23 12 9
bbc
How much money went on cronyism. The mind boggles.Typical of the Cons to help their mates out and put them first in a time of crisis. Just shows that the Cons always put themselves first , second and last always. They never change their greedy stance what ever.
84
25/11/2020 10:44:11 2 5
bbc
I don’t think that buying PPE from China is helping their mates
14
25/11/2020 10:33:46 12 13
bbc
How many of you people rush out and buy a load of binbags before you can see the pile of shi** about to be dumped in your back yard?
Give it a rest.
27
25/11/2020 10:35:32 8 3
bbc
Have you heard of Exercise Cygnus?
102
25/11/2020 10:49:56 0 2
bbc
Do you have any knowledge Operation Cygnus recommendations at all or just posting the tag line which I suspect.
3
25/11/2020 10:30:10 10 20
bbc
As the majority of taxpayers take more out of the system than they put in it is highly unlikely that it has cost them anything.
28
25/11/2020 10:35:41 2 6
bbc
Always interested in down votes on these type of comments - its down voting fact, not opinion! The average person directly and indirectly takes far more from the system than they put in.
223
25/11/2020 11:16:26 2 1
bbc
Depends how you define taking out of the system.
295
25/11/2020 11:33:32 1 1
bbc
and your problem with that is ….?
29
25/11/2020 10:35:52 63 45
bbc
I'm sure that the people complaining about the cost of PPE would have been the first to complain if the government had delayed purchase to go through a complete due diligence and procurement procedure.

Yes it was too expensive, but whatever the government do is 'wrong' in the media ... usually with the benefit of hindsight.
58
25/11/2020 10:40:53 38 6
bbc
Imigine my shock that during a world wide shortage of PPE there was profiteering going on! im shocked I say!
174
25/11/2020 11:02:44 6 9
bbc
There should be plans for what do in such a an emergency, Boris not attending meeting about the pandemic in the early days show a lack of leadership.
434
25/11/2020 12:05:06 5 3
bbc
The people complaining about the cost of PPE are complaining about Tory mates making fortunes by price gouging at will on secret contracts after the Tories deliberately ran down stockpiles despite repeated detailed warnings.

What is WRONG with you clapped out clowns?

The people most at risk of dying are the most desperate to grovel to their dim lightbulb toff idols.
439
25/11/2020 12:07:18 4 2
bbc
"Imigine my shock that during a world wide shortage of PPE there was profiteering going on! im shocked I say!"

Hilarious.

Still shocked that it was party donors that were given the fast inside track to public money, in secret, on guaranteed price margins way above market rates? Solely because of who they knew or who they were married to?

Hysterically funny, isn't it?

Your money, too

Clown
30
25/11/2020 10:35:57 7 8
bbc
The N.H.S is far too big and centralised control is incompetent to cope with this pandemic. Couple that with constant political interference and reorganisation and you have the empire building of advisory bodies and quangos
The result is bad management and the squandering of tax payers money on a worrying scale. Health care should be put under local control, with the people it aims to protect.
90
25/11/2020 10:46:44 2 1
bbc
The whole point of the NATIONAL Health Scheme is that things can be moved around the system so it does not have regional overloads. Poor management I would agree on and certainly too many layers of non-clinical management.
31
25/11/2020 10:36:09 8 9
bbc
Tory coffers in tax-havens are bulging with taxpayer loots for rubbish PPE, alongside bags of rubles, what a jolly jape
32
25/11/2020 10:36:13 9 9
bbc
£10bn extra for us taxpayers.

This is what happens when you’re unprepared. Combine that with cronyism and a Tory chumocracy and we end up with a very poor deal indeed.

To put it into perspective it kind of dwarfs Rishi’s extra £3bn for the NHS and £4bn for the jobless.
33
25/11/2020 10:36:28 13 10
bbc
And how much of that £10bn was 'donated' back to the Tory party?
7
25/11/2020 10:32:36 47 34
bbc
Another lose lose for any government. If they had spent money on this in prior years to build up stocks it would have been called a waste with no Pandemic in site. Now its called a waste as supply/demand pushed up prices when the need was unexpectedly there.
34
25/11/2020 10:36:31 23 19
bbc
Successive governments invested heavily in nuclear defence. Was that a waste?
57
25/11/2020 10:40:53 2 3
bbc
Time will tell - and if it turns out to be a waste, they will be criticised. If it turns out to be needed then I think that is worse!
496
25/11/2020 12:50:16 2 0
bbc
Logical Fallacy known as a False Equivalence.
933
25/11/2020 14:28:46 0 0
bbc
Alas stockpiled PPE doesn't have a deterrent effect against viruses.
25/11/2020 17:16:23 0 0
bbc
Guess you have various forms of personal hinsurance and I honestly hope you never have to use it BUT do you consider that a waste of money?
35
25/11/2020 10:36:39 53 30
bbc
does the report highlight that ppe has a shelf life - that some ppe if stock piled could actually be past its shelf life - would they then criticise the govt for over buying ppe - hindsight is a wonderful gift
54
25/11/2020 10:40:30 47 27
bbc
The PPE they already had was 10 years past its shelf life, now that was Hindsight, Tory Hindsight.
115
25/11/2020 10:51:47 11 2
bbc
Absolutely everyone involved in any way with the manufacturing, procurement or stockpiling of PPE knows it has a shelf life. This should not come as any surprise whatsoever.
340
25/11/2020 11:41:43 9 0
bbc
Use oldest, replace with new. PPE is used all the time!
36
25/11/2020 10:36:54 7 8
bbc
Two points stand out for me:

1. We didn't join up to the EU initiative because, well because of Brexit and we didn't see their email?

2. Millions of items that are unusable - If the goods are not fit for use or fit for purpose they shouldn't be paid for. If it was a mistake on the setting of the tender, the Govt official who signed it must resign for incompetence.
11
25/11/2020 10:33:12 34 25
bbc
We all knew this back in the spring and it's neither news nor surprising. There was a mad scramble for PPE and normal rules were discarded. What is the point of this report now? Pulic spending needs auditing of course, but what a misdirection of resources in what's still a national emergency. Wonder what the authors would have had to say if we were at war?
37
25/11/2020 10:36:58 22 12
bbc
this has to be signed of first as legal and above board,fraud squad needed
38
25/11/2020 10:37:03 15 10
bbc
Damned if the do Damned if they don't.
49
Bob
25/11/2020 10:39:44 12 5
bbc
They are damned if they stuff their own pockets will billions of pounds of taxpayer cash.

It's called stealing, and it's not OK. Especially when the country is on it's knees.
Removed
39
25/11/2020 10:37:33 131 10
bbc
Perhaps the government needs to look at which companies supplying PPE put their prices up the most, and when it can, make sure it doesn't use those companies again.
55
25/11/2020 10:40:45 31 56
bbc
That's not quite how supply and demand in procurement works
67
25/11/2020 10:41:52 3 4
bbc
Like every company in the world?
182
25/11/2020 11:05:34 3 4
bbc
If I made £10 billion in one year of compared to a few million in a normal year, you think I’d give a monkeys about further orders. Would already be well retired to a private island with own jet!
276
25/11/2020 11:30:00 8 4
bbc
But when they're your mates...
372
25/11/2020 11:47:42 10 4
bbc
Why? We have a Tory 'let the market decide' decide economic philosophy. This is what they want, what they have championed my entire life, its called capitalism and no one will be punished for any profiteering, certainly not by this Government. Hell Moggy will be nominating many CEO's for honours come the season to do so.
404
25/11/2020 11:54:16 12 1
bbc
They gave our money to companies run by their friends and donors. They actively sought them out.

Clowns here going on about 'thats the way the world is' and 'supply and demand' are simply groveling to corrupt oligarchs. Its contemptible.

Market abuse is a crime, you old fools.
460
25/11/2020 12:21:14 6 0
bbc
.... and take a long hard look at the VIP procurement channels:

https://goodlawproject.org/news/special-procurement-channels/
497
25/11/2020 12:50:22 0 0
bbc
You also need to bear in mind that these companies need to prepare for a sharp drop in sales over the coming years.

As governments around the world stockpile PPE, ventilators etc., they are currently in a windfall. This comes at the cost of future orders being placed now.

No-one will buy anywhere near as much as normal in the next few years due to this massive intake
503
25/11/2020 12:53:05 3 2
bbc
That will never happen - the cronies of the powerful always prosper. Corruption is in the human gene make-up and will never, ever stop. This 'government' has simply taken it to a new level of vileness.
813
25/11/2020 13:57:38 0 0
bbc
The reality is that unless we have another pandemic we will not need to use them again. We only used the suppliers because we needed the PPE, and were using 30 times what we normally use
902
25/11/2020 14:17:09 0 0
bbc
Oh how blissful if only life worked in that way, sadly you are delusional
40
25/11/2020 10:37:38 7 3
bbc
Where there is chaos there is profit. In this case a few lucky well connected businesses have done very well.
61
25/11/2020 10:41:11 5 2
bbc
Where there is chaos there is profit. In this case a few lucky well connected businesses have done very well. By well connected do you mean if they know Bozo?
41
25/11/2020 10:37:41 5 6
bbc
An example of how apparent cost savings by buying insufficient stock can led to massive additional costs
All at the taxpayers expense while putting medical staff and patients at risk
79
25/11/2020 10:43:25 1 3
bbc
PPE has "use by" dates and no country can stockpile in advance for an unknown reason like C19 as the ongoing cost would be huge. PPE was stockpiled for known potential uses not the completely unknown. Not sufficient for sure but like the rest of the World we went and bought extra requirements - like any market if there are lots of buyers and limited production/stock then the price goes up.
42
25/11/2020 10:38:09 11 7
bbc
Always going to be price rises when there is a Global shortage.
43
25/11/2020 10:38:28 9 4
bbc
How? How can PPE cost 1/10 the cost of HS2!?!? Something is very wrong somewhere!
77
25/11/2020 10:42:38 5 3
bbc
Tory cronyism goes hand in glove.
105
25/11/2020 10:41:38 1 1
bbc
32 billion lots of anything is going to cost a whole lot of money.
44
25/11/2020 10:38:37 12 10
bbc
No one anticipated a pandemic. Prices went up after demand sky rocketed. Public and unions demand more PPE..

What do you expect. Things cost money. None story.
69
25/11/2020 10:42:15 4 5
bbc
Have you heard of Exercise Cygnus which the Tories commissioned?
132
25/11/2020 10:54:41 0 1
bbc
'Things' do cost money but raising the cost 1000% in any scenario is abhorrent and raising costs of medical equipment amidst a global pandemic is downright immoral.
962
25/11/2020 14:44:51 0 0
bbc
No one anticipated a pandemic ? Before covid got here bojo told the country we were prepared
45
Bob
25/11/2020 10:38:43 14 9
bbc
Lots of Boris apologisers out in force again today.

Yes, during a crisis, mistakes can be made, and you need to get hold of materials quickly.

No, it's not ok to stick a few million in your mate's wife's pocket as a little "bonus" from the tax payer.

If any faith is to be restored in the British public, then this must be investigated... quickly... and people must be actually punished.
149
25/11/2020 10:58:54 0 3
bbc
And an equal number of ill informed unsubstantiated claims and no evidence offered - Donald would be proud of you
6
25/11/2020 10:31:50 210 53
bbc
The findings of Exercise Cygnus in 2016 were that the UK's preparedness and response were not sufficient to cope with a severe pandemic.

The Tory government did nothing and now we see the effects of their neglect.
46
25/11/2020 10:39:05 79 50
bbc
The reality is all governments of both leanings hold these exercises for many different scenarios and they do not action the findings on most of them because to do so for all these just in case scenarios is unaffordable. Their main point is to highlight the likely problems that will need to addressed if this event occurs
157
25/11/2020 11:00:40 17 6
bbc
By your argument all situations other than "normal" should be avoided if there is an increase in expenditure.

The conclusion of operation Cygnus was " It concluded starkly that Britain was not adequately prepared for a flu-like pandemic’s “extreme demands”. "

Buying PPE in times of an epidemic, without a local manufacturing capacity will always end in tears.
161
25/11/2020 11:01:14 22 7
bbc
And the right ignored those problems and buried the report
319
25/11/2020 11:37:21 6 4
bbc
A pandemic was a "when" not "if" situation. The government should have been better prepared than they were. No excuses.
323
25/11/2020 11:38:22 7 2
bbc
From 2016 the government were pe-occupied with their ideological Brexit. They'd lost touch with the real world.
355
25/11/2020 11:44:34 7 3
bbc
Well, in this reality they may well be noticing that not having proper planning in place to deal with this situation has cost them way more in the long run.
393
25/11/2020 11:52:12 6 4
bbc
Stop groveling. They were warned, in detail, and they ignored it. You don't sound like a wise old bird you sound like a sycophant. They went on privatising everything in sight, and ignoring the experts that they and you despise so much, with the end result of inevitable chaos and deaths.
512
25/11/2020 12:58:16 4 1
bbc
The public accounts committee said the government '...had no plan before the pandemic for how it might increase critical care equipment in the event of an emergency". That's the definition of something that should have been highlighted a dealt with.
837
25/11/2020 14:01:42 0 1
bbc
OK, Jezza, zzzzzzzzzzzzz
47
25/11/2020 10:39:09 6 12
bbc
I'm sure they tried to do what's best , mistakes were made , but it was a rush job and we all learn from our mistakes.
60
25/11/2020 10:41:11 4 3
bbc
You are joking!?
63
Bob
25/11/2020 10:41:21 2 5
bbc
No... "rush" means "quick"

Spending 5 weeks with your thumb up your backside and then giving a few billion to your mates is called "stealing"
73
25/11/2020 10:42:21 2 4
bbc
it was pure fraud
110
25/11/2020 10:50:35 0 3
bbc
No, it is ineptitude born of a slavish adherence to a political ideology.
48
25/11/2020 10:39:12 11 5
bbc
Proof positive that modern capitalism is fatally flawed. The actions of these companies are akin to seeing someone lying in the gutter and asking them for twenty quid to ring 999. Globally business has lost its moral compass.
38
25/11/2020 10:37:03 15 10
bbc
Damned if the do Damned if they don't.
49
Bob
25/11/2020 10:39:44 12 5
bbc
They are damned if they stuff their own pockets will billions of pounds of taxpayer cash.

It's called stealing, and it's not OK. Especially when the country is on it's knees.
80
25/11/2020 10:43:40 1 4
bbc
Fake news!
7
25/11/2020 10:32:36 47 34
bbc
Another lose lose for any government. If they had spent money on this in prior years to build up stocks it would have been called a waste with no Pandemic in site. Now its called a waste as supply/demand pushed up prices when the need was unexpectedly there.
50
25/11/2020 10:39:45 7 5
bbc
Not a waste because the stock would have been used before it’s expiry date and replaced with new stock
10
25/11/2020 10:33:09 214 20
bbc
The volumes of PPE wasted due to being unsuitable highlights the problems of the loss of domestic manufacturing over decades: had we been able to make more of our own, we would have known what our standards were and ensured nothing was wasted to the extent that has been.
51
25/11/2020 10:39:49 73 86
bbc
We could have made more of our own - we had 10m people on furlough being paid by the gov't to sit at home. Surely they could have been put to good use? Is that not a fair quid pro quo for being helped out by the taxpayer?
139
25/11/2020 10:56:48 10 9
bbc
Still cheaper to buy it from the Chinese, despite dubious production methods and materials
167
25/11/2020 11:01:39 26 3
bbc
We're talking about traceable sterilised medical grade PPE... Not knitted wool masks.
168
25/11/2020 11:01:44 42 2
bbc
And what facilities would they have used to make all this PPE to the required standards?

Or do you have this quaint view of 10m people sitting at home sewing facemasks, using the materials they just happen to have lying around, like a Blue Peter project?
196
25/11/2020 11:08:50 1 1
bbc
10m all over the country with one manufacturer making masks.
317
25/11/2020 11:37:13 5 0
bbc
Doing what exactly? setting up a production line manufacturing compliant PPE in their spare rooms? do me a favour!
350
25/11/2020 11:43:49 2 0
bbc
So furlough would've conjured up the extra equipment, storage, warehousing, raw materials and logistics to make enough PPE would it? Labour availability wasn't the problem, and rarely is. Our problem was lazy bureaucrats relying on middle-men instead of doing the graft required to broker direct deals. Leadweight swinging at its worst.
376
25/11/2020 11:48:30 1 0
bbc
mate, how does your average waiter make masks at home? Do they have the plant and materials to do it? What did the government do?
Andquid pro quo, if they are working, pay them for working. Or is that only for mates of the Prime Miniost;er
419
25/11/2020 11:56:27 1 1
bbc
Did you make your PPE if it was so easy
435
Me
25/11/2020 12:05:36 2 0
bbc
I had a three week furlough and we were given access to training site, a set of courses we needed to study and were expected to spend the time training so we could support the new development when we got back.

But i gather most firms didnt try to upskill their employees when there was a lull in the amount of work we have to do.
492
25/11/2020 12:47:58 2 0
bbc
Did they all have the skills to operate the machinery?
513
25/11/2020 12:58:26 1 1
bbc
First you need the machinery, then you need the raw materials, then you need to train people in their use.
What this whole pandemic HAS taught us is that buying cheap from China is a false economy & all too often goods supplied are shoddy & fail prematurely.
546
25/11/2020 13:08:44 1 0
bbc
Don't think the people you refer to as being helped out by the taxpayer had much choice. They didn't ask to be furloughed and surely were forced to stay at home to reduce transmission. Btw worked throughout the first lockdown and still working now.
551
25/11/2020 13:09:18 1 0
bbc
I think many would have struggled to build the required sterile production facilities and source the quality checked raw materials (and then pass the quality checks).
Really, this is non-news. If we'd spent £10bn on PPE last year 'just in case' we had a pandemic, the Gov't would have been blasted as well. No Gov't of any persuasion has a crystal ball, but we all have 20/20 hindsight.
577
25/11/2020 13:18:03 1 1
bbc
and they would have produced medical grade PPE at the drop of a hat would they.? The guys that pour your coffee, or doorman at the local theatre etc all just become proficient at making PPE....jeez, some folk on here.
692
25/11/2020 13:38:36 0 0
bbc
They didn't "sit at home" they were out on the golf course, never been so busy!
790
25/11/2020 13:55:09 0 0
bbc
You can’t just make PPE that easily. You need the factories which all take time to build. We could spend millions now building factories in case we have another pandemic, but wouldn’t use them if we didn’t
882
25/11/2020 14:11:59 0 0
bbc
good point
52
25/11/2020 10:40:12 4 4
bbc
@ Ian J 10.36 The PPE they already had was 10 years past its shelf life, now that was Hindsight, Tory Hindsight.
117
25/11/2020 10:52:09 0 1
bbc
When you buy something, sorry, if you buy something over the internet, do you see the “Use by date”
53
25/11/2020 10:40:22 56 34
bbc
Judging by the comments so far it’s obvious that the whole article has not been read and fully understood. The analysis at the end is also wrong, the whole world was woefully under prepared for this otherwise there wouldn’t have been a global rush to secure these items. I admit there have been mistakes made in this area but it’s far too easy to criticise using hindsight
68
25/11/2020 10:41:59 28 32
bbc
its fraud
78
25/11/2020 10:42:41 4 8
bbc
Yes criticism is easy with hindsight. So is learning. The trouble is, they never seem to learn using hindsight.
93
25/11/2020 10:47:11 7 6
bbc
Easy to support these people under the circumstances but procurement is not only about provisioning, its about contingency planning, worst case scenario, modelling, call it what you will, and we were warned about the potential for this to happen years ago but yet we find ourselves ill prepared. Inexcusable IMO.
333
25/11/2020 11:40:20 7 1
bbc
The Chinese seemed well prepared AND were able to supply everyone else. Unfortunately we preferred to source it through 'middlemen' in USA, Spain, anywhere but our own firms who didn't even get a response to their offers.

As for that tiny pest control business in Kent given millions ...
26/11/2020 04:37:34 0 0
bbc
Nail on the head friend, the wokeists and lefty types all have ‘hindsight’ they have no understanding of reality in their loony orthodoxy though.
35
25/11/2020 10:36:39 53 30
bbc
does the report highlight that ppe has a shelf life - that some ppe if stock piled could actually be past its shelf life - would they then criticise the govt for over buying ppe - hindsight is a wonderful gift
54
25/11/2020 10:40:30 47 27
bbc
The PPE they already had was 10 years past its shelf life, now that was Hindsight, Tory Hindsight.
851
25/11/2020 14:05:41 2 0
bbc
I doubt the Government spends time going round the warehouses to check the age of Ppe, that will be down to civil servants and public health bodies that are the same irrespective of which party is in power. The reality is that most was within spec
958
25/11/2020 14:39:58 1 1
bbc
Mmmmmm...it had to be Tory hindsight. Great socialist rant though!!
39
25/11/2020 10:37:33 131 10
bbc
Perhaps the government needs to look at which companies supplying PPE put their prices up the most, and when it can, make sure it doesn't use those companies again.
55
25/11/2020 10:40:45 31 56
bbc
That's not quite how supply and demand in procurement works
89
25/11/2020 10:45:21 16 4
bbc
It may not be how rules around procurement work currently but it's how it should work if profiteering is clearly involved.
56
25/11/2020 10:40:47 1 2
bbc
If these procurement people worked in the private sector, they would be unemployed. Civil servants are notoriously difficult to get rid of so "if you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always got"; shocking state of affairs.
34
25/11/2020 10:36:31 23 19
bbc
Successive governments invested heavily in nuclear defence. Was that a waste?
57
25/11/2020 10:40:53 2 3
bbc
Time will tell - and if it turns out to be a waste, they will be criticised. If it turns out to be needed then I think that is worse!
29
25/11/2020 10:35:52 63 45
bbc
I'm sure that the people complaining about the cost of PPE would have been the first to complain if the government had delayed purchase to go through a complete due diligence and procurement procedure.

Yes it was too expensive, but whatever the government do is 'wrong' in the media ... usually with the benefit of hindsight.
58
25/11/2020 10:40:53 38 6
bbc
Imigine my shock that during a world wide shortage of PPE there was profiteering going on! im shocked I say!
148
25/11/2020 10:58:50 5 4
bbc
It may further surprise you to learn that a "certain country" who supplied much of this equipment to the nations of the world, had spent much of 2019 buying it up in order to sell back at a profit.
150
25/11/2020 10:58:56 7 7
bbc
Yes, keep applauding criminal activity.
59
Les
25/11/2020 10:41:01 16 9
bbc
There were plenty of offers made by UK based suppliers. However the govt chose to ignore and go elsewhere. Probably via or to Tory chums and guess who has paid the price.
95
25/11/2020 10:48:16 7 3
bbc
Yes there was, but many proved to be non viable and con artists and I for one was glad that they were weeded out
178
25/11/2020 11:04:29 2 1
bbc
Maybe their produce would have been ok for the average man in the street, but specialist equipment and manufacturing procedures are required for serious protection, as needed by front line staff.
47
25/11/2020 10:39:09 6 12
bbc
I'm sure they tried to do what's best , mistakes were made , but it was a rush job and we all learn from our mistakes.
60
25/11/2020 10:41:11 4 3
bbc
You are joking!?
91
lro
25/11/2020 10:46:47 1 2
bbc
Captain Hindsight!
40
25/11/2020 10:37:38 7 3
bbc
Where there is chaos there is profit. In this case a few lucky well connected businesses have done very well.
61
25/11/2020 10:41:11 5 2
bbc
Where there is chaos there is profit. In this case a few lucky well connected businesses have done very well. By well connected do you mean if they know Bozo?
15
25/11/2020 10:33:50 13 8
bbc
The TV program last night on the Govt handling at the outset was shocking. Leading experts ignored. The timeline of what the Govt didn't do was disgraceful. I was concerned the very first time that I heard 'we have taken the best scientific & medical advice'. That was always a ploy to have an oven ready excuse. We didn't learn anything from other countries. The PPE cronyism was a disgrace.
62
25/11/2020 10:41:18 2 4
bbc
Isn't hindsight wonderful! Things are rather different when you are in the thick of it.
47
25/11/2020 10:39:09 6 12
bbc
I'm sure they tried to do what's best , mistakes were made , but it was a rush job and we all learn from our mistakes.
63
Bob
25/11/2020 10:41:21 2 5
bbc
No... "rush" means "quick"

Spending 5 weeks with your thumb up your backside and then giving a few billion to your mates is called "stealing"
5
25/11/2020 10:31:31 18 18
bbc
Can you imagine what Labour would have said if the Government spent £5 Billion a year before the pandemic on PPE, that no-one knew we would need?
64
25/11/2020 10:41:27 9 4
bbc
That’s the point it would have cost a fraction of £10 billion to maintain and turnover a national stock of PPE ready for emergencies
65
25/11/2020 10:41:44 8 7
bbc
send in the fraud squad to investigate this scanda, pretty obvious we have a corrupt government who dont recognise bullying,chumology and reckless spending with ppe not fit for purpose and an american jeweller,corruption rears its head once again with the tory labels attached,from cummins to jenricks and now this it shows this lot are the most corrupt government for many years,chuck em in jail/
123
25/11/2020 10:45:55 1 1
bbc
Never trust anyone who doesn't understand English grammar.
66
25/11/2020 10:41:50 12 12
bbc
The European Union invited the UK to join their massive programme to buy PPE but Johnson dismissed their offer.
So we were at the back of the queue while the EU placed billions of orders.
Thank you, Johnson, and all the other anti-Europe racists.
85
25/11/2020 10:44:22 2 1
bbc
The question I would like answered is to compare the prices achieved (per item etc) for the EU initiative vs the prices achieved outside it. I think the people that got in first got best prices, but be interesting to actually find out
92
JL
25/11/2020 10:47:04 1 2
bbc
I don’t believe this is correct. My understanding was the EU could not get a policy in place. You may recall that many European countries were unable to secure supplies at the height of the pandemic
96
25/11/2020 10:48:50 1 2
bbc
Has the EU scheme actually delivered any PPE? It certainly had not delivered anything at the height of the 1st wave. Also don't forget that the UK had ordered PPE from France and Germany which they stopped from being delivered.
Removed
212
m1
25/11/2020 11:13:10 0 1
bbc
This is not true, at the time other EU countries did not come to the aid of Italy or Spain. It was left to China to help them. I know you don't believe in democracy as a remainer but please get your facts correct.
39
25/11/2020 10:37:33 131 10
bbc
Perhaps the government needs to look at which companies supplying PPE put their prices up the most, and when it can, make sure it doesn't use those companies again.
67
25/11/2020 10:41:52 3 4
bbc
Like every company in the world?
53
25/11/2020 10:40:22 56 34
bbc
Judging by the comments so far it’s obvious that the whole article has not been read and fully understood. The analysis at the end is also wrong, the whole world was woefully under prepared for this otherwise there wouldn’t have been a global rush to secure these items. I admit there have been mistakes made in this area but it’s far too easy to criticise using hindsight
68
25/11/2020 10:41:59 28 32
bbc
its fraud
103
25/11/2020 10:50:04 9 3
bbc
Yes, by many who made money out of a global pandemic, not the ones who had to pay for the stuff
824
25/11/2020 13:59:35 1 5
bbc
Your post is childish irresponsible and untrue leftist bile for you cannot prove a word of what you said.
44
25/11/2020 10:38:37 12 10
bbc
No one anticipated a pandemic. Prices went up after demand sky rocketed. Public and unions demand more PPE..

What do you expect. Things cost money. None story.
69
25/11/2020 10:42:15 4 5
bbc
Have you heard of Exercise Cygnus which the Tories commissioned?
198
25/11/2020 11:09:35 0 1
bbc
Yep, that's the one that recommended the Herd Immunity approach, not really basking in it's glorious recommendations right now!
10
25/11/2020 10:33:09 214 20
bbc
The volumes of PPE wasted due to being unsuitable highlights the problems of the loss of domestic manufacturing over decades: had we been able to make more of our own, we would have known what our standards were and ensured nothing was wasted to the extent that has been.
70
25/11/2020 10:42:20 12 3
bbc
0.49%!
71
25/11/2020 10:32:55 32 12
bbc
So extraordinary demand for items puts prices through the roof. This is news to anyone?
423
25/11/2020 11:57:23 21 9
bbc
Are you forgetting that the Govt ignored the recommendations of a 2016 pandemic planning exercise in the NHS which recommended, among other things, a stockpiling of PPE? This, by the way, was when Jeremy Hunt as Health minister was promising 5000 extra GPs by 2020 - NONE were delivered

At the start of the pandemic the NHS was both short of PPE and short of staff

And NO-ONE takes responsibility
72
25/11/2020 10:34:13 5 5
bbc
Just ridiculous - Labour would be proud of the way this Government chucks money around!
47
25/11/2020 10:39:09 6 12
bbc
I'm sure they tried to do what's best , mistakes were made , but it was a rush job and we all learn from our mistakes.
73
25/11/2020 10:42:21 2 4
bbc
it was pure fraud
74
25/11/2020 10:34:37 2 13
bbc
Of course, all of those who have recovered from covid-19 are now IMMUNE. They DO NOT require PPE. If the government were honest enough to acknowledge this there would be a significant saving in costs. But, more importantly, a lot of people could do their job much more comfortably AND much more efficiently.
129
25/11/2020 10:53:53 3 2
bbc
1- They are not all immune
2 - There are degrees of immunity, it's not a case of can or can't catch it.
3 - There is probably a time limit on this immunity that is unique to each individual.

Armed with these facts, perhaps you might like to amend your comment as to how it can be achieved with the unknowns.
75
25/11/2020 10:42:22 27 6
bbc
Which UK landfill site were those unsuitable Turkish gowns dumped in?
76
JL
25/11/2020 10:42:31 3 2
bbc
Supply and demand it’s like toilet rolls. What would be a smart discussion would be how much clinical waste could be reused. Whoever comes up with the idea on how to reuse cloths and aprons would save the taxpayer and the NHS a fortune
43
25/11/2020 10:38:28 9 4
bbc
How? How can PPE cost 1/10 the cost of HS2!?!? Something is very wrong somewhere!
77
25/11/2020 10:42:38 5 3
bbc
Tory cronyism goes hand in glove.
53
25/11/2020 10:40:22 56 34
bbc
Judging by the comments so far it’s obvious that the whole article has not been read and fully understood. The analysis at the end is also wrong, the whole world was woefully under prepared for this otherwise there wouldn’t have been a global rush to secure these items. I admit there have been mistakes made in this area but it’s far too easy to criticise using hindsight
78
25/11/2020 10:42:41 4 8
bbc
Yes criticism is easy with hindsight. So is learning. The trouble is, they never seem to learn using hindsight.
41
25/11/2020 10:37:41 5 6
bbc
An example of how apparent cost savings by buying insufficient stock can led to massive additional costs
All at the taxpayers expense while putting medical staff and patients at risk
79
25/11/2020 10:43:25 1 3
bbc
PPE has "use by" dates and no country can stockpile in advance for an unknown reason like C19 as the ongoing cost would be huge. PPE was stockpiled for known potential uses not the completely unknown. Not sufficient for sure but like the rest of the World we went and bought extra requirements - like any market if there are lots of buyers and limited production/stock then the price goes up.
49
Bob
25/11/2020 10:39:44 12 5
bbc
They are damned if they stuff their own pockets will billions of pounds of taxpayer cash.

It's called stealing, and it's not OK. Especially when the country is on it's knees.
80
25/11/2020 10:43:40 1 4
bbc
Fake news!
81
Bob
25/11/2020 10:43:46 7 3
bbc
Per the article, if we paid 2019 prices then a hypothetical pandemic PPE stockpile would have cost £1.2bn. PPE has a shelf life of, depending on what it is, typically 2-5 years. Let's call it 3.5 on average.

That means the £10bn spend on over-priced items equates to 25 years of stockpiling.

The last pandemic on this scale was over 100 years ago, and the last reasonable one was over 50 years ago.
82
25/11/2020 10:43:54 57 28
bbc
So lets get this correct. Years of austerity and cost cutting has actually cost the tax payer £10b above and beyond what we should have needed to pay.
104
25/11/2020 10:50:28 41 46
bbc
No You haven't got it correct.
Every country in the world is hit by a Pandemic at roughly the same time. This had nothing to do with austerity or Cost cutting
Try again.
143
25/11/2020 10:57:37 7 18
bbc
You are so off the mark, you really need to do better
209
25/11/2020 11:12:57 15 5
bbc
Surely not. Did we not fix the roof while the sun was shining?.. Or maybe that was just Tory hot air while they sold off the silver leaving us in record debt larger than the whole of the UK economy.
865
25/11/2020 14:10:06 1 3
bbc
No, if we had held 30 years supply of PPE in storage there would have been a significant cost in storing the PPE and if the pandemic hadn’t occurred the vast majority would have had to be thrown away as it would have passed its use by date
83
25/11/2020 10:43:56 11 17
bbc
Give it a rest. PPE has a shelf life, Why would you spend billions on stuff that would go out of date? You can't blame the government for world price hikes when the whole world is trying to source the stuff. It is called capitalism so many of you seem to love, until it doesn't suit your agenda.

I don't care for Tories, but it is palpable nonsense to blame them for this.
118
25/11/2020 10:52:15 3 1
bbc
The U.S. had huge stocks of PPE in long term storage for a potential emergency. When they had to take it out, they found much of it was unusable for things like perished rubber and elastic straps.
blame it on the boogie
26
25/11/2020 10:35:23 12 9
bbc
How much money went on cronyism. The mind boggles.Typical of the Cons to help their mates out and put them first in a time of crisis. Just shows that the Cons always put themselves first , second and last always. They never change their greedy stance what ever.
84
25/11/2020 10:44:11 2 5
bbc
I don’t think that buying PPE from China is helping their mates
66
25/11/2020 10:41:50 12 12
bbc
The European Union invited the UK to join their massive programme to buy PPE but Johnson dismissed their offer.
So we were at the back of the queue while the EU placed billions of orders.
Thank you, Johnson, and all the other anti-Europe racists.
85
25/11/2020 10:44:22 2 1
bbc
The question I would like answered is to compare the prices achieved (per item etc) for the EU initiative vs the prices achieved outside it. I think the people that got in first got best prices, but be interesting to actually find out
86
25/11/2020 10:44:24 57 24
bbc
Those in charge of government procurement live in a different world to those in private sector procurement. If a buyer in a private company is incompetent then they are sacked. In the civil service their jobs and pensions are safe no matter how inefficient a department is.
114
25/11/2020 10:51:06 10 10
bbc
All public sector contracts should be OJEU compliant!
126
25/11/2020 10:48:48 2 6
bbc
Not just procurement.
442
25/11/2020 12:08:45 10 2
bbc
The contracts were not awarded by civil servants. Not even a nice try. Handed out like confetti by the Tories to their mates outside all procurement guidelines.

Hence the legal challenges.

Dear lord you lot are rubbish at this.
710
BZ
25/11/2020 13:41:45 3 0
bbc
Ruling by fear great idea that never works. Sacking people doesn't make them perform better it just means a greater turnover in incompetent staff in the private sector
839
25/11/2020 14:02:06 0 0
bbc
I am sure in the private sector most supply contracts are just in time contracts, so if there was a shock to the system private companies would have the same issues.
25/11/2020 15:30:41 1 0
bbc
Those in charge of government procurement, in this case, were sidelined and ignored. As the NAO report says. Contracts to MP's friends and donors.

In the civil service, jobs are not safe regardless of what the department does nor how effective nor efficient it is.
87
25/11/2020 10:44:39 11 11
bbc
Last year the UK spent £15.2 billion on overseas aid. The government's incompetence and cronyism resulted in 66% of that amount being wasted. And they have the gall to propose cutting aid by £4.3 million.
100
25/11/2020 10:49:18 1 1
bbc
Billion.
1) how much of that aid actually went into something useful in the overseas pockets, and didn't just go to corrupt governments
2) it's not aid. it's so we can say "we gave you this, do this for us" when we need to
127
25/11/2020 10:53:36 0 1
bbc
£4.3 billion
25
Bob
25/11/2020 10:35:16 86 37
bbc
This is a little bit misleading as PPE expires. Therefore stockpiles would need to be constantly renewed. So over the great many years of zero pandemics that £10bn figure quickly diminishes.

Highly unlikely too that you would keep 32 billion items in storage, so additional items would have been needed at inflated prices anyway.
88
Bob
25/11/2020 10:45:12 76 26
bbc
"So over the great many years of zero pandemics that £10bn figure quickly diminishes."

____

SARS, MERS, Swine Flu, Bird Flu, Ebola...

There are constant risks, and these are all accounted for the in the governments own reports... which they chose to ignore.
113
Bob
25/11/2020 10:51:02 17 9
bbc
And none of those resulted in the need for 32 billion items of PPE. The point remains. Things on this global scale don't occur with enough frequency.
531
25/11/2020 13:03:59 6 1
bbc
Those very issues you list serve to highlight why governments did NOT spend billions at the onset of Covid, as multiple previous outbreaks had proven NOT to be a threat to the UK.
827
25/11/2020 13:59:53 0 1
bbc
Each require different types of PPE, and the majority of the diseases you mentioned never reached the U.K. and therefore we didn’t require any additional PPE
25/11/2020 18:59:04 0 0
bbc
and most never happen ... do you have a radiation suit stashed away in your nuclear bunker ?
26/11/2020 09:13:25 0 0
bbc
a really good asteroid. we need a really good asteroid
55
25/11/2020 10:40:45 31 56
bbc
That's not quite how supply and demand in procurement works
89
25/11/2020 10:45:21 16 4
bbc
It may not be how rules around procurement work currently but it's how it should work if profiteering is clearly involved.
30
25/11/2020 10:35:57 7 8
bbc
The N.H.S is far too big and centralised control is incompetent to cope with this pandemic. Couple that with constant political interference and reorganisation and you have the empire building of advisory bodies and quangos
The result is bad management and the squandering of tax payers money on a worrying scale. Health care should be put under local control, with the people it aims to protect.
90
25/11/2020 10:46:44 2 1
bbc
The whole point of the NATIONAL Health Scheme is that things can be moved around the system so it does not have regional overloads. Poor management I would agree on and certainly too many layers of non-clinical management.
60
25/11/2020 10:41:11 4 3
bbc
You are joking!?
91
lro
25/11/2020 10:46:47 1 2
bbc
Captain Hindsight!
66
25/11/2020 10:41:50 12 12
bbc
The European Union invited the UK to join their massive programme to buy PPE but Johnson dismissed their offer.
So we were at the back of the queue while the EU placed billions of orders.
Thank you, Johnson, and all the other anti-Europe racists.
92
JL
25/11/2020 10:47:04 1 2
bbc
I don’t believe this is correct. My understanding was the EU could not get a policy in place. You may recall that many European countries were unable to secure supplies at the height of the pandemic
53
25/11/2020 10:40:22 56 34
bbc
Judging by the comments so far it’s obvious that the whole article has not been read and fully understood. The analysis at the end is also wrong, the whole world was woefully under prepared for this otherwise there wouldn’t have been a global rush to secure these items. I admit there have been mistakes made in this area but it’s far too easy to criticise using hindsight
93
25/11/2020 10:47:11 7 6
bbc
Easy to support these people under the circumstances but procurement is not only about provisioning, its about contingency planning, worst case scenario, modelling, call it what you will, and we were warned about the potential for this to happen years ago but yet we find ourselves ill prepared. Inexcusable IMO.
177
25/11/2020 11:03:59 1 9
bbc
We've been warned about pandemics (sars, bird flu, ebola, etc.) for decades and until this year none have come to pass.
Pandering to all the contingency warnings would have unnecessarily cost billions.
It's like the Nightingale hospitals times millions.
94
25/11/2020 10:47:27 3 1
bbc
The real questions are what are the use by dates? And where and how is it all being stored? In any sane world this stuff need not be wasted!?!?!?
we could store them alongside fertiliser in a warehouse for several years

that hasn't gone badly for any other middle east country recently

boom. problem solved.
140
25/11/2020 10:56:55 1 1
bbc
Exactly. You build up a stockpile and have a deplete and replenish cycle to ensure that it is all used by its expiry date.
59
Les
25/11/2020 10:41:01 16 9
bbc
There were plenty of offers made by UK based suppliers. However the govt chose to ignore and go elsewhere. Probably via or to Tory chums and guess who has paid the price.
95
25/11/2020 10:48:16 7 3
bbc
Yes there was, but many proved to be non viable and con artists and I for one was glad that they were weeded out
66
25/11/2020 10:41:50 12 12
bbc
The European Union invited the UK to join their massive programme to buy PPE but Johnson dismissed their offer.
So we were at the back of the queue while the EU placed billions of orders.
Thank you, Johnson, and all the other anti-Europe racists.
96
25/11/2020 10:48:50 1 2
bbc
Has the EU scheme actually delivered any PPE? It certainly had not delivered anything at the height of the 1st wave. Also don't forget that the UK had ordered PPE from France and Germany which they stopped from being delivered.
97
25/11/2020 10:48:56 5 5
bbc
If this government managed a football team they'd have been out on their ear after the 1st game.
98
25/11/2020 10:49:05 8 4
bbc
The NHS and PHE prepare plans for pandemic response and stockpile. The focus was on influenza and stock was revised after the 2009 pandemic. To state that any government was unprepared for an event that it's institutions had no experience, threat assessment or detailed planning for is a bit weird. Govts fund according to severity of threat; SARS was not high on the radar of any Western Govt?
99
25/11/2020 10:49:16 5 2
bbc
Just about every screwup in government spending (whether Tory or Labour). is down to procurement. Defence procurement, where they change designs while things are actually being built resulting in late delivery and cost overruns, NHS paying £1,000 for laptops Currys sell for £350. Outsource that to the private sector.
87
25/11/2020 10:44:39 11 11
bbc
Last year the UK spent £15.2 billion on overseas aid. The government's incompetence and cronyism resulted in 66% of that amount being wasted. And they have the gall to propose cutting aid by £4.3 million.
100
25/11/2020 10:49:18 1 1
bbc
Billion.