Rishi Sunak says Spending Review will not spell austerity
23/11/2020 | news | business | 1,190
The chancellor says he will uphold pre-Covid funding pledges on police, nurses and schools.
1
23/11/2020 11:07:15 2 1
bbc
If in doubt..... Borrow.
2
23/11/2020 11:08:39 12 7
bbc
All Sunak said is that "You will not see austerity next week..."

Beyond that, prepare for the worst.
3
23/11/2020 11:09:16 218 15
bbc
For the sake of fairness and setting an example, MP salaries and their expenses should be frozen: these combined are more than enough for them to get by.

Furthermore in an ideal world being an MP should mean not being allowed to work other paid jobs on top (a sizeable proportion do and have done over the years), especially with unemployment going up across the board.
19
23/11/2020 11:16:10 171 7
bbc
"Furthermore in an ideal world being an MP should mean not being allowed to work other paid jobs on top"

Good idea ... it should also mean that you don't hire your relatives, or other MPs relatives on large salaries for very little work. Applies across all parties.
29
23/11/2020 11:19:07 28 0
bbc
You need decent pay for decent people, I'd rather pay £500k per year for someone clever to run this £2T country than pay £80k and get these clowns.
77
23/11/2020 11:35:13 31 4
bbc
I recall one politician who was allowed to be mayor of London as well as a sitting MP, and also earning what he called 'chicken feed', although in fact mnaytimes the average salary, from writing whimsical , semi racist 'journalism'.
114
23/11/2020 11:42:43 11 25
bbc
MP's salaries are not really very good, part of the reason we have few high quality MPs. And their expenses are far more regulated than they used to be, so they can;t really fiddle those any more either. If you want even lower quality MPs, then reduce their pay!!
154
23/11/2020 11:52:33 11 2
bbc
Borrowing has to be paid for otherwise you go bankrupt and nobody will lend you a penny, just look at Argentina. There will have to be a watch on costs.
180
23/11/2020 11:58:32 18 0
bbc
Agree MPs have a very good income, and if they are working hard for the electorate then they would not have time to take any additional jobs.
I would also say if they do take another job then the income from that should be deducted from their MP pay and expenses.
202
23/11/2020 12:03:35 5 8
bbc
All public sector workers on more than £50,000 p.a. should have their wages frozen and the minimum wage increased
224
23/11/2020 12:11:53 15 1
bbc
They should use NZ as an example. Their MPs took a 20% cut!
233
23/11/2020 12:14:18 2 1
bbc
So you want only the 'rich' to become MP's & for those MP's to be shut away from the real world?
259
23/11/2020 12:23:18 4 8
bbc
Let's see Labour, Keir Starmer and Jeremy Corbyn lead the way. See what parallels can be drawn from Animal Farm when they don't. "All piggies are equal but some are more equal than others"!
450
23/11/2020 13:14:24 0 0
bbc
lets hope its palatable
658
23/11/2020 14:16:50 5 1
bbc
There is a case to be made for MP’s getting performance related pay (and pensions).

As an example:

Pay increases could be for:
• Increasing UK growth
• Increasing value of GBP
• Decreasing inflation

Pay cuts could be for:
• Decreasing UK growth
• Decreasing value of GBP
• Increasing inflation

Pensions of MP’s should be similarly adjusted so the legacy of their screw ups come home to roost.
768
23/11/2020 15:31:06 0 3
bbc
'not being able to work other paid jobs'. Why not? So, MP X not being allowed to advise a multinational on subject Y is going to help Fred from Hull getting a job in fish processing is it? So we should ban anyone on a pension taking a job....because there are more unemployed? Prohibiting people working when they want is a pretty leftie way forward. Unbelievable.
792
dg
23/11/2020 15:51:51 1 2
bbc
If anyone receives an increase in earnings during a public sector pay freeze, then those increases could be taxed at 100%. That would mean that everyone is "in it together", helping overcome the mood of vitriol which pervades much of the country whilst also providing revenue to pay back some of the incurred debt.
959
PCS
23/11/2020 18:31:01 1 0
bbc
Here, here unfortunately you know what will happen. Meanwhile we have hundreds of UK companies with £'s trillions stashed in offshore accounts, heck its alleged the richest family in Scotland have an estimated £4.32 billion separate to their Scottish assets estimated at £2.1 billion..If only Nicola could get her hands on this, indy2 would be a doddle...
as
23/11/2020 22:18:51 1 0
bbc
Can't see M.P.s not taking the proposed inflated wage increases plus "expenses" of course. After all, the qualifications for the job are firstly endless greed, closely followed by ability to lie with a straight face, have lots cronies willing to donate for favours, and to be capable of ignoring rules and laws with impunity.
4
23/11/2020 11:09:39 55 14
bbc
UK debt has been steadily increasing for ten years.

The only way to stop the rise is to start trading successfully to run on a trade surplus.

No politicians in the UK have a clue how to achieve this so tinker round the edges.
28
23/11/2020 11:18:28 41 19
bbc
Until the start of the pandemic, UK debt was actually declining. But I do agree about UK politicians being clueless when it comes to promoting a successful trading environment.
122
23/11/2020 11:45:20 6 0
bbc
Trade balance and Public Deficit are two different things.
397
23/11/2020 13:01:02 2 1
bbc
Trade is nothing to do with national debt. We could run a massive trade surplus with the rest of the world, but could still be in debt up to our eyeballs.

More trade does generate more tax receipts, which can be used to repay debt. But as we're about to walk away from our largest customer, I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.
433
23/11/2020 13:09:50 1 0
bbc
Try looking at Europe, the US, Venezuela and further afield.
Pay freeze for millions of public workers and £millions of public money to Ministerial cronies.
They call it "levelling up". What a joke.
23
23/11/2020 11:17:13 59 37
bbc
Public workers have the luxury of not loosing their jobs, those working in lots of areas of private industry are not so lucky.

I would take a pay freeze for certainty of employment any time.
166
23/11/2020 11:55:34 5 2
bbc
When the Tories use the phrase 'levelling up' what they fail to mention is that they are using it as a contraction of the longer term 'totally levelling and completely messing up' although I'm not sure messing is the correct word in that phrase, so feel free to insert one which would not be acceptable on HYS...
6
23/11/2020 11:10:13 12 5
bbc
Aye right, there will obviously be some austerity alongside the pay freeze (though realistically this is a pay cut) for the public service.

Although the pay freeze is shameful, the public service have been working the whole way through this keeping the economy and whatever services we have left running, and rather than be rewarded for that we are being penalised while MPs get a 10% pay rise...
18
23/11/2020 11:15:59 3 21
bbc
The public sector needs a 20% pay reduction. Overpaid relative to others already and should be lower paid given all the other advantages like security and safe fat pensions. A mere freeze just drags itvout, cut hard.
7
Leo
23/11/2020 11:10:42 26 8
bbc
The media, especially the BBC/Sky journalists, political commentators talk as if austerity has ended. Because of a 1 point odd increase in pay, & welfare benefits.
Austerity has not ended: did not end. All we have was this slight increase and a promise things will get better,; it was no longer policy.
Clearly, maybe rightly given the debt, it will continue. We need to stop the pretence it ebded.
41
23/11/2020 11:22:08 13 29
bbc
What never started can not end. We never had any austerity. Government spending never fell. Just did not go as recklessly up year on year. Restrained, not austerity.
553
23/11/2020 13:41:43 0 1
bbc
if you have to go into debt to avoid austerity, then you are done, and I suspect we are, though in good company, most of the West did it too. So will Davos bring the 'great reset' or will we all end up like Zimbabwe, I was going to say Venuzuela, but they still have vast quantities of oil.
8
23/11/2020 11:12:06 16 12
bbc
Of course it won't be austerity .... for friends of the PM and his gang.

Whether Brexiter or Remoaner, nobody can deny that this is a government which rewards friendship and loyalty in spades.

Question is, has Brexit been designed as a bonanza for these guys? After all, it takes the entire country pulling together to be prosperous, but only a few people at the top to tank it....
9
23/11/2020 11:13:13 7 14
bbc
Why should public sector workers be free from work/money risk while the private sector sheds millions of jobs, cuts pay and hours?
583
23/11/2020 13:50:33 3 0
bbc
yes , come on - get rid of education , shut the health service , empty your own bins , ignore domestic and child abuse , shut down public transport.. I cant be bothered to continue …….. the solution is to bring back employment protection and pensions for all - not race to the bottom
10
23/11/2020 11:13:17 11 8
bbc
Austerity didn't spell austerity for most, so why would this be any different? Tories pretending to act responsibly, whilst acting irresponsibly.
11
23/11/2020 11:13:33 13 16
bbc
Any review will be outlined in the next budget. The rest is hearsay and rumours.

I am starting to get a bit peeved with the BBC HYS board. No opportunity to discuss the rigours occurring within the Labour Party Executive and the challenge to leadership. Re the stance on JC.
49
23/11/2020 11:25:52 11 3
bbc
we did not get a say about the Priti Patel situation which i find more disturbing as they are governing the labour party is not
12
23/11/2020 11:13:33 4 2
bbc
So let's get this right, nation debt numbers since WW2.
Tory Party chancellor Sunak assuring us there will be NO austerity?
43
23/11/2020 11:23:29 7 0
bbc
And how did we get out of post WW2 debt position?

A party political consensus around social democracy and the multiplier. Growing the economy to provide the revenue to pay down our debt, and simultaneously inflate it away. Also growing the economy to attract private sector investment.

This idea that if you cut public sector investment private investment will rush in to replace it is nonsense.
13
mc
23/11/2020 11:12:52 20 10
bbc
what about us civil servants on £18k in the law courts. We were due a pay rise in August and he has recinded it and now no pay rise for probably next 3 years. Is that the thanks we get for working throughout this pandemic and not being able to work from home
33
23/11/2020 11:19:56 8 25
bbc
Quite right too. You are the lucky ones safe jobs full good pay. Next several years you will be grateful how sitting pretty you are.
14
23/11/2020 11:13:07 10 8
bbc
Liars
15
23/11/2020 11:14:00 3 7
bbc
Reckless dissregard of the reality. Spending has to be hacked back to pay back all this free money hand outs of furlough and crazy spending on useless track and trace, ppe contracts. That means pay more than their grandiose wasteful show off infrastructure of useless rail and road as we adopt remote lives not traveling lives.
16
23/11/2020 11:14:59 8 7
bbc
The problem with the idea of extending, or returning to, austerity is that as yet we have not seen real austerity.

If and when it truly comes we'll know it for sure.
24
23/11/2020 11:17:24 1 7
bbc
Yes really is time we started cutting back not mere slowing the reckless increases which is all we have had recently.
17
23/11/2020 11:15:35 15 11
bbc
I will wait until the Spending Review is published before making any comments. Until then, anything said is speculation.
31
23/11/2020 11:19:37 7 5
bbc
That won't stop most people!!
196
23/11/2020 12:02:40 0 0
bbc
If people say nothing until the review then the Tories will see it as a lack of opposition to cuts.
If there is an outcry against these measures which target the very people who have been the ones working to protect us all while Bozo and the clownshow have made a mess of every strategic decision, while simultaneously funnelling public money into the pockets of cronies they may think twice...
6
23/11/2020 11:10:13 12 5
bbc
Aye right, there will obviously be some austerity alongside the pay freeze (though realistically this is a pay cut) for the public service.

Although the pay freeze is shameful, the public service have been working the whole way through this keeping the economy and whatever services we have left running, and rather than be rewarded for that we are being penalised while MPs get a 10% pay rise...
18
23/11/2020 11:15:59 3 21
bbc
The public sector needs a 20% pay reduction. Overpaid relative to others already and should be lower paid given all the other advantages like security and safe fat pensions. A mere freeze just drags itvout, cut hard.
61
23/11/2020 11:30:16 8 0
bbc
What nonsense. Statistics actually show that private sector pay increased whilst public sector wages were cut during the Tory 'austerity' period. Like for like comparison shows private sector workers earn much more than public equivalent, and the 'other advantages' only exist in your fevered, prejuidiced brain.
83
23/11/2020 11:36:35 7 0
bbc
Do you want to break that to the care workers and nurses who don't earn that much and have been putting themselves in harms way since day one of the pandemic....
209
23/11/2020 12:05:17 1 0
bbc
Yes.

That would be an excellent way to reduce demand, that would lead to yet more reductions in investment that would further knacker the UK economy up.
573
23/11/2020 13:46:37 0 0
bbc
race to the bottom then - shouldn't everyone have employment protection and pension opportunities? - unless you vote Tory
3
23/11/2020 11:09:16 218 15
bbc
For the sake of fairness and setting an example, MP salaries and their expenses should be frozen: these combined are more than enough for them to get by.

Furthermore in an ideal world being an MP should mean not being allowed to work other paid jobs on top (a sizeable proportion do and have done over the years), especially with unemployment going up across the board.
19
23/11/2020 11:16:10 171 7
bbc
"Furthermore in an ideal world being an MP should mean not being allowed to work other paid jobs on top"

Good idea ... it should also mean that you don't hire your relatives, or other MPs relatives on large salaries for very little work. Applies across all parties.
764
23/11/2020 15:25:26 5 1
bbc
its a shame people were out clapping those same public sector workers not long ago. those who are carers, paid minimum wage, working for or on behalf of local government. not one furloughed on full pay, caring for those in need, putting themselves at risk. no fat pensions building up, i will be fighting for public sector pay. Without them we would all be in a much worse place. decent pay for all.
20
23/11/2020 11:16:14 9 12
bbc
On balance Rishi Sunak has been a good chancellor and has not been afraid to step up to the challenges when required. Definitely a candidate for the leadership in the future
Much better than Anneliese Dodds whose lack of fiscal understanding is quite frightening - no pay rise for teaching assistants - economy won't recover as quickly - really!
tories are crooks Removed
21
23/11/2020 11:16:31 17 8
bbc
Hopefully, the Chancellor realizes that the austerity experiment was a failure.

The flow of capital from productive investment and into assets must be reversed, the best way to do that is for the Government to invest in our productive economy, and make it an attractive and viable investment for private capital.

Austerity failed because it killed growth, that deflected private investment.
46
23/11/2020 11:24:51 3 11
bbc
Never was any austerity. Did not happen. Gov overall spending never fell.
22
23/11/2020 11:17:07 13 9
bbc
hes got a cheek after this ppe scandal,patels bullying escapism and the handling of chumology in the tory ranks,taxpayers money has been stolen by the tory pals and he thinks his spending review will make good news,better news coming when the audits cant be signed of because of tory fraud,daily telegraph yesterday warning of tory corruption haunting them,spending is nothing compared to corruption
Pay freeze for millions of public workers and £millions of public money to Ministerial cronies.
They call it "levelling up". What a joke.
23
23/11/2020 11:17:13 59 37
bbc
Public workers have the luxury of not loosing their jobs, those working in lots of areas of private industry are not so lucky.

I would take a pay freeze for certainty of employment any time.
44
23/11/2020 11:24:23 23 8
bbc
So the drop in workforce at our local council from 1500 to around 600 was job security? No pay rises for 6 years after 2008 & my golden pension of £2,300pa. Welcome to the real world of local government employees, over paid, I wish. Stop looking at CEO’s pay, the actual workforce get average or below average pay these days.
56
23/11/2020 11:28:17 19 2
bbc
My local council has cut around 25% of its workforce. Another 600 to go before April.
161
23/11/2020 11:55:10 21 4
bbc
Bull, Local Authorities have dropped over 25% of their workforce and their staff have had pay freezes all through austerity but all you hear about is Civil Servants, Teachers and the NHS. Local Authority workers are not in 'safe jobs' a lot of them work on the front line and don't think for a second that they are not also dying on the job from contracting Covid at work
258
23/11/2020 12:22:48 14 3
bbc
Hi Waterwitch

The IFS says that between Q1 2010 and Q3 2015 420k public sector jobs were removed. A 7.5% reduction in the total workforce.

Meanwhile over the same period of time the private sector created 2.5M jobs.

Perhaps you can explain how that is possible if your assertion that a public sector job is impossible to lose?

Or maybe your opinion is not bourne out by the facts?
274
23/11/2020 12:18:56 5 8
bbc
You will find the lefties shooting you down on this one, because councils will be making cuts. But some of those cuts come from outsourcing work to private companies, although don;t expect them to know or understand anything like that.
311
23/11/2020 12:39:19 9 3
bbc
My local school cut several teaching posts last year, on top of support staff they have lost during previous austerity cuts.

Do you want to tell the staff they had to let go because of austerity how their jobs are safe?
338
f
23/11/2020 12:44:58 5 1
bbc
This is not a matter of public vs private. Do not let that lie distract you. This is a matter of the further exploitation of us all within a broken financial system that is only designed to filter as much money as possible away from as many as possible and to as few as possible.
344
23/11/2020 12:46:39 6 2
bbc
You're what is known as a "useful idiot" - falling for the Daily Mail fabrications about golden pensions and diamond studded shoes - and joining in with the Trump-esque process of castigating others - about whom you demonstrably know exactly zilch.

If public sector jobs are so marvellous, why don't you apply for one?

Lots of jobs are unsafe. Making the public sector poorer doesn't help anyone.
492
23/11/2020 13:23:26 4 2
bbc
Public sector workers do lose their jobs. Local authorities have cut their workforces significantly.
936
23/11/2020 18:18:21 0 0
bbc
25% of jobs lost at my local council. As far as I know, no local Gvt staff were sent home to sit on their arses for six months at tax payers‘ expense. Maybe everyone who got furlough pay should return it through a reduced tax free allowance to fund a pay rise for those who literally kept the country running?
23/11/2020 19:53:45 0 0
bbc
Millions of public workers have lost their jobs. Does 20,000 lost police jobs ring a bell? If you look at the services privatised, such as Probation, not only thousands of jobs, but trained staff replaced by untrained call centre staff.
Don’t fall into the Daily Mail view of working people. They want to drive out good jobs and replace them by bad ones.
23/11/2020 20:08:48 0 0
bbc
Dont buy in to that public v private myth, its workers v capital always has been
16
23/11/2020 11:14:59 8 7
bbc
The problem with the idea of extending, or returning to, austerity is that as yet we have not seen real austerity.

If and when it truly comes we'll know it for sure.
24
23/11/2020 11:17:24 1 7
bbc
Yes really is time we started cutting back not mere slowing the reckless increases which is all we have had recently.
90
23/11/2020 11:37:38 0 0
bbc
When will you realize that as you cut public investment the growth incentive for private investment decreases.

Austerity failed because, simply, it killed growth. What is the incentive to invest in a declining economy?
25
23/11/2020 11:17:31 1 4
bbc
Can somebody define austerity?
Spending = income is not austerity
When life returns to normal, or near normal, we have to adjust routine spending and start to repay the £many billions we have borrowed
20
23/11/2020 11:16:14 9 12
bbc
On balance Rishi Sunak has been a good chancellor and has not been afraid to step up to the challenges when required. Definitely a candidate for the leadership in the future
Much better than Anneliese Dodds whose lack of fiscal understanding is quite frightening - no pay rise for teaching assistants - economy won't recover as quickly - really!
tories are crooks Removed
27
23/11/2020 11:15:33 5 15
bbc
Good job the economy will be helped by the Canadian trade deal sorted yesterday - the one that Remainers said wouldn't happen for years, if at all. Australia & New Zealand next. Well done Liz Truss.
36
23/11/2020 11:20:36 13 1
bbc
Helped by having a deal exactly the same as our EU one and that everyone expected.....
????????????????
48
23/11/2020 11:25:35 7 0
bbc
Hahahahahaha - the deal that is exactly the same as the one we had with the EU.

Good job that will make absolutely NO positive impact to the estimated £500 Billion deficit attributed to Brexit to date.

You Brexiteers really are genius's. How to make being much worse off in every possible way look like that's what you wanted.
51
23/11/2020 11:26:12 6 0
bbc
copy is best she can do and call it a victory,pm from canada wasnt so fussed only said initially.
70
23/11/2020 11:32:37 2 0
bbc
I think you should wait and see what the eventual settlement with the Canadians will be;

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/brexit-canada-saturday-1.5396420
163
23/11/2020 11:54:24 1 0
bbc
DEAL OF THE DAY NO NOT DIDO! MAPLE-SYRUP! WOW JOB DONE! BOZO SAVES ENGELAND!
4
23/11/2020 11:09:39 55 14
bbc
UK debt has been steadily increasing for ten years.

The only way to stop the rise is to start trading successfully to run on a trade surplus.

No politicians in the UK have a clue how to achieve this so tinker round the edges.
28
23/11/2020 11:18:28 41 19
bbc
Until the start of the pandemic, UK debt was actually declining. But I do agree about UK politicians being clueless when it comes to promoting a successful trading environment.
52
23/11/2020 11:26:16 20 0
bbc
No deficit was declining, debt was therefore still rising. Please learn the difference
68
23/11/2020 11:32:27 19 4
bbc
'UK politicians being clueless when it comes to promoting a successful trading environment.'

For a start, they followed the sheep who voted to savage the economy by leaving the EU.
103
23/11/2020 11:40:55 15 2
bbc
Dont talk nonsense. UK debt was not declining. Its been more than doubled by the Tory party since 2010, by reducing the defecit by borrowing more. In effect paying off the overdraft by putting it on the credit card. Tory Con-economics. They have piled more debt on this country than anyone.
106
23/11/2020 11:41:32 10 1
bbc
Er, no it wasn't.

Nibbling at the deficit does not reduce debt.

Osbo's promises of a public sector surplus never came to fruition.

How could they when you're killing the very growth you depend on for revenue.
124
23/11/2020 11:46:26 0 0
bbc
Maybe for a year or so.
401
23/11/2020 13:02:08 2 0
bbc
No. Prior to Conronavirus our national debt was still increasing, although that rate of increase had slowed down.
497
23/11/2020 13:24:32 1 0
bbc
UK debt did not decline, although there was a decline as a % of GDP. The deficit also declined but the debt did not.
3
23/11/2020 11:09:16 218 15
bbc
For the sake of fairness and setting an example, MP salaries and their expenses should be frozen: these combined are more than enough for them to get by.

Furthermore in an ideal world being an MP should mean not being allowed to work other paid jobs on top (a sizeable proportion do and have done over the years), especially with unemployment going up across the board.
29
23/11/2020 11:19:07 28 0
bbc
You need decent pay for decent people, I'd rather pay £500k per year for someone clever to run this £2T country than pay £80k and get these clowns.
139
23/11/2020 11:50:12 13 5
bbc
Well said mate, i know a lot of people get annoyed at Politicians wages due to being much higher than theirs, but as a comparison to what they could earn in the private sector its peanuts. And if you pay peanuts you get....
186
23/11/2020 12:00:33 9 2
bbc
Exactly this and more to the point its why most MPs are so distant from the working class. Only the power hungry wealthy are interested in politics as they already have money and they want power to raise their status.
If your from a poor household and have genuine brains and talent why would you become an MP for 60k+ with all the media attention over a director for 100k - 250k?
298
23/11/2020 12:35:28 1 0
bbc
I get your point, but how do you get “the people” to vote for these people?
488
23/11/2020 13:22:18 3 1
bbc
Put MP's on prrformance-related salaries.
Should reduce the 2Tn debt rapidly.
30
23/11/2020 11:19:24 5 6
bbc
Doddy. Absolutely clueless :(
17
23/11/2020 11:15:35 15 11
bbc
I will wait until the Spending Review is published before making any comments. Until then, anything said is speculation.
31
23/11/2020 11:19:37 7 5
bbc
That won't stop most people!!
32
23/11/2020 11:19:42 114 34
bbc
Freeze MP's Pay
Tax Amazon, Google and Facebook properly
Keep pay rises in place for public sector workers

we all know who's worked hardest during the crisis
91
23/11/2020 11:37:42 72 57
bbc
absolute tosh. just doing your job does not constitute working the hardest. Do you think furloughed TfL workers were working the hardest? same applies to all the Whitehall civil servants 'working from home'
214
23/11/2020 12:07:25 24 21
bbc
Much of the public sector lives in an overpaid bubble. Great pensions, great hours, almost impossible to get rid of someone for poor performance (results in people coasting). Many in private sector havent had rises for years & have taken 10,20+ pay cuts in recent months + working longer. Pensions decimated too. Pay rise for public sector? You are having a laugh surely!?
240
23/11/2020 12:17:05 13 9
bbc
Why should public sector workers be exempt?
290
23/11/2020 12:32:21 13 1
bbc
Amazon, Google and Facebook pay Tax according to the law so although it seems they don't pay the only way to increase their Tax bill is change the law.
Just hope you don't use Amazon, Google or Facebook, otherwise wouldn't that be slightly hypocritical?
291
23/11/2020 12:32:36 18 5
bbc
Delivery drivers bringing in supplies from around the world to supermarkets, hospitals, police stations, peoples homes? They are all private sector workers... what about the staff stacking shelves 24 hours so the useless public don't run out of toilet paper? What about all those traders keeping the economy ticking despite the chaos? Sheesh, public sector are not the only ones to be praised.
379
23/11/2020 12:57:32 14 6
bbc
Ludicrous, Private sector workers who pay the taxes that pay the wages AND taxes of the Public sector are going to be losing their jobs in the thousands. Public sector should be grateful, I don't know of any full time not paid over lock-down or likely to have no job at the end of it.
432
23/11/2020 13:09:49 6 4
bbc
At least a lot of them will still have jobs ! Nor are they likely to have to take a pay cut. Pensions still building up. Many in business didnt get a pay rise for years if they still had a job when financial crisis hit. So if they have to take a pay freeze in public sector then so be it.
471
23/11/2020 13:19:24 9 3
bbc
Public sector employees have enjoyed relative job security on top of their relatively-generous pension. Of course there needs to be pay restraint. Furthermore, one thing this crisis has taught us is how reliant we all are on each other - not just public sector.
602
23/11/2020 13:55:43 2 1
bbc
Yes freeze MPs pay.
There is a new law in place to prevent the likes of Amazon moving profits to tax havens already.
Public sector still retain increments for seniority so don't suffer that badly. The private sector has born most of the pain of lockdowns, no work for me since March. So public sector get real.
799
23/11/2020 15:57:22 3 1
bbc
"we all know who's worked hardest during the crisis."

Why do assume the above statement to be true.
I for one have worked throughout the pandemic in the private sector.
I am away from home 13 hours a day.
I would kill to have holidays and a pension scheme like the public sector has.

Ps , I work for a manufacturing company, you know , the type of company that pay for the public sector.
23/11/2020 19:24:58 0 1
bbc
Not public sector workers but the point on tax is well made. Tax on the takings in the UK, not on profit, closes the massive offshoring profit loophole used by ALL big business which not only means the pay near zero tax but also that they have much lower overheads than small business so no one small (like the corner shop) can compete fairly with them.
23/11/2020 22:41:58 0 0
bbc
With that logic the teachers should be first in the line for a cut for their attitude in the Spring.
13
mc
23/11/2020 11:12:52 20 10
bbc
what about us civil servants on £18k in the law courts. We were due a pay rise in August and he has recinded it and now no pay rise for probably next 3 years. Is that the thanks we get for working throughout this pandemic and not being able to work from home
33
23/11/2020 11:19:56 8 25
bbc
Quite right too. You are the lucky ones safe jobs full good pay. Next several years you will be grateful how sitting pretty you are.
193
23/11/2020 12:02:10 5 1
bbc
With inflation likely to spiral post-transition.

Would you be able to make ends meet on 18k.
223
23/11/2020 12:11:48 5 0
bbc
Jealous James. Always jealous of people with more than you. Perhaps you should have tried harder at school ?
254
23/11/2020 12:21:34 1 0
bbc
I bet you earn a damn site more than 18K
362
23/11/2020 12:52:50 3 0
bbc
Reading failure, or just persistent trolling?

Poster earns £18,000 per annum, not hour / day / week / month.

Surely there's no other explanation why you would imagine £18k is enough to live on, let alone "full good pay".
34
23/11/2020 11:20:14 9 4
bbc
Spending review is going to spell TAX RISES though...
101
23/11/2020 11:39:12 7 2
bbc
Of course, everyone has to pay for the furlough nonsense. As I worked all summer and wasn't furloughed I've already paid towards the scheme so I reckon I should get a tax credit, about £5,000 should cover it.
35
23/11/2020 11:20:21 2 9
bbc
As we really didn't experience austerity the first time around I'm not really surprised that we won't get it this time.
50
23/11/2020 11:25:56 9 0
bbc
Tell that to the NHS, the schools and all the people forced to open tattoo shops and hairdresser because they couldn’t get a good job.
27
23/11/2020 11:15:33 5 15
bbc
Good job the economy will be helped by the Canadian trade deal sorted yesterday - the one that Remainers said wouldn't happen for years, if at all. Australia & New Zealand next. Well done Liz Truss.
36
23/11/2020 11:20:36 13 1
bbc
Helped by having a deal exactly the same as our EU one and that everyone expected.....
????????????????
37
23/11/2020 11:20:46 60 19
bbc
Rishi Sunak says Spending Review will not spell austerity...Yes it will as there will be no pay rises to most people and any pay rise will be below inflation. Austerity is guaranteed for the ordinary man./women as they will be paying tax increases for all the hundreds of billions borrowed through PAYE as they are the easy target. The establishment elite and fat cats will continue to fleece us all.
239
23/11/2020 12:16:23 25 7
bbc
The tragedy of it is that Austerity slows the growth in the economy required to increase tax receipts, the US did nothing after the 2008 recession, we did Austerity, they recovered in 18 months, we recovered in 5 years. This is the reason BoJo and Sunak don't want to reimpose Austerity they know it just slows down the economy at a time when their Brexit Policy is already slowing the economy.
24/11/2020 06:51:48 0 0
bbc
Any pay or benefit restriction is austerity to the people who suffer those restriction, sorry but here we see again the politicians living in a different world than the rest of us...

create a covid sales tax that no one can avoid including business 5% would raise in the region of 40 billion plus, then scrap it as soon as the covid hole is paid for, every single person does their bit then simples
38
23/11/2020 11:20:57 2 5
bbc
If you make a profit of £1 per item, and sell 1 then £1 profit. If you make a profit of 10p per item, and sell 11 then £1.10 profit. we need a stimulus (even if only short term). VAT cut, Excise Duty Cut, Property Stamp Duty cut.
start valuing and rewarding the responsible majority. recovery will happen with work
and paying your bills.
62
23/11/2020 11:30:26 1 0
bbc
We blew all our NS oil revenues on tax 'incentives'.

No growth in productivity resulted.

Instead, that value filtered through into increased property and asset values.
39
23/11/2020 11:21:20 59 22
bbc
Telling local Gvt workers that three more years of pay freezes (i.e. pay cuts) Isn’t austerity won’t wash. Below-inflation pay awards for 11 of the last 12 years is already enough. They aren’t only teachers; they safeguard children, empty the bins, tend the parks, run your libraries, sweep your streets and try to fill your potholes, all with ever-dwindling funding.
425
23/11/2020 13:08:26 6 2
bbc
The reason for that is because under no government across the globe has stopped trying to avoid the consequences of 2007, the can has been kicked and thanks to covid and lock-downs the kick is no longer working well, why do you think all the 'Great and Good' and the WEF, IMF are all talking 'reset' 'new Bretton Woods' the mythical economics of the past decades have resulted in unpayable debt
565
23/11/2020 13:44:23 6 1
bbc
Unfortunately most of these services are privately contracted now, hardly anyone works direct for local councils (LC). Teachers in school Academies, libraries staffed by volunteers and refuse collection/Bins/parks by (in my area) a private firm. Yes LC funds pay this but not to those workers.
772
23/11/2020 15:33:31 3 1
bbc
There will be millions unemployed shortly hence millions prepared to do all those jobs you mention for a bit less that people are paid now. Supply & demand.
905
23/11/2020 17:22:19 0 1
bbc
Most refuse collectors and park maintenance people work for private companies, and do not receive the generous terms and conditions of public sector workers.
40
23/11/2020 11:20:53 5 15
bbc
Public sector should be frozen. Almost none of them were furloughed, so they got paid in full. Its already almost impossible to get rid of them. I worked with the public sector and many of them were so bad and lazy they wouldn't have lasted a day in a private sector job....
53
23/11/2020 11:26:19 8 2
bbc
Oh goody let's make lots of sweeping generalisations, with no evidence to back them up, just an anecdote to suit the narrative!

Having had recent & extensive experience of "the public sector" I would have to fiercely refute your allegations!??
76
23/11/2020 11:34:16 1 0
bbc
If the value of public sector pay reduces, then private sector pay will follow it. Basic economics. It will still not help the govs problem of a low tax take. So taxes will rise, causing both further poverty and industrial unrest. Food banks will be supplying even more underpaid folk. Prices of consumer goods will rise to maintain profits. The cycle of poor getting poorer increases.
Bad idea.
7
Leo
23/11/2020 11:10:42 26 8
bbc
The media, especially the BBC/Sky journalists, political commentators talk as if austerity has ended. Because of a 1 point odd increase in pay, & welfare benefits.
Austerity has not ended: did not end. All we have was this slight increase and a promise things will get better,; it was no longer policy.
Clearly, maybe rightly given the debt, it will continue. We need to stop the pretence it ebded.
41
23/11/2020 11:22:08 13 29
bbc
What never started can not end. We never had any austerity. Government spending never fell. Just did not go as recklessly up year on year. Restrained, not austerity.
372
23/11/2020 12:55:18 3 1
bbc
Ummm... have you just completely ignored the past 7 years of tory rule? Services were gutted or removed, benefits cut and when I worked in the health service we effectively had to make 12% of annual savings....

Stop lying, it benefits no one but the government
473
23/11/2020 13:19:30 2 1
bbc
Exactly!
705
23/11/2020 14:39:40 1 2
bbc
Why are you talking total rubbish?
42
23/11/2020 11:22:50 80 29
bbc
Austerity has been deadly for the economy. It has led to a diminution of sales and investment in the UK. Devaluation followed, and a massive deindustralisation due to foreign goods flooding our market. This led to a gig economy based on people starting small businesses because there are fewer good jobs.
If the Gov had invested in regrowing the real economy we would not be in as much trouble now.
57
23/11/2020 11:28:18 64 25
bbc
Precisely!

Austerity kills investment!

The private sector will never replace reduced public sector investment, quite the opposite in fact.

When it sees a real economy where growth is contracting, private capital will seek safe and easy havens in assets.

The idea that private capital will rush in where public investment is cut is a neo-liberal fantasy, as proved by the last decade.
251
23/11/2020 12:20:58 2 3
bbc
yes but how do we finish them now all is revelaed ?

In a 2 party system where Labour are the same Neo Liberal , increased population from migration based GDP growth system.

10 Million more people here than at the Millenium ... and people dont see the damage from that on life chances , home ownership , decent jobs where employers CANNOT strip terms for 2 decades..

Yet the people sit in dispair
272
23/11/2020 12:16:15 4 12
bbc
Most people barely noticed 'austerity'. And if we hadn't had austerity, we would not have had the money for furlough etc. Labour and LibUndems had austerity in their manifestos tool, but you could always have wasted your vote on a fringe party.
366
23/11/2020 12:52:51 4 1
bbc
But this is standard TORY POLICY ! Punish the poor, disabled and homeless it is what they have always done !
369
23/11/2020 12:54:32 1 5
bbc
How quickly some forget that our nations credit rating was in tatters and being downgraded before austerity measures were introduced. Imaging trying to borrow money to cover the current crisis with that millstone round our necks. Not a pleasant prospect.
398
23/11/2020 13:01:02 2 1
bbc
We in the UK haven't had austerity, if you want to know what austerity is ask Greece or perhaps Belgium. Belgium citizens on Euronews some weeks back were blaming their phenomenally high mortality per capita on a money starved health service due to their government following EU austerity rules.
429
23/11/2020 13:09:33 1 0
bbc
If you want to kick off the economy - take a look at https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/repeal-vat-after-brexit
480
23/11/2020 13:21:04 2 3
bbc
What utter nonsense. The gig economy exists across the world including many countries who have never been through "austerity" and is a consequence of the growth in service industries rather than manufacturing, a trend which has been ongoing for 40 years as a result of globalisation and reciprocal trade agreements.
23/11/2020 19:28:42 1 0
bbc
Spending billions of tax payers money abroad has done the damage. Billions on american jets that dont fly, billions on german police cars and french army lorries, the list is endless and it has ended up killing vast tracts of UK industry, the industry we need for prosperity and heaven forbid should we ever have need to defend ourselves from attack.
12
23/11/2020 11:13:33 4 2
bbc
So let's get this right, nation debt numbers since WW2.
Tory Party chancellor Sunak assuring us there will be NO austerity?
43
23/11/2020 11:23:29 7 0
bbc
And how did we get out of post WW2 debt position?

A party political consensus around social democracy and the multiplier. Growing the economy to provide the revenue to pay down our debt, and simultaneously inflate it away. Also growing the economy to attract private sector investment.

This idea that if you cut public sector investment private investment will rush in to replace it is nonsense.
23
23/11/2020 11:17:13 59 37
bbc
Public workers have the luxury of not loosing their jobs, those working in lots of areas of private industry are not so lucky.

I would take a pay freeze for certainty of employment any time.
44
23/11/2020 11:24:23 23 8
bbc
So the drop in workforce at our local council from 1500 to around 600 was job security? No pay rises for 6 years after 2008 & my golden pension of £2,300pa. Welcome to the real world of local government employees, over paid, I wish. Stop looking at CEO’s pay, the actual workforce get average or below average pay these days.
45
23/11/2020 11:24:44 12 9
bbc
"...spending commitments made by the government include the hiring of 50,000 more nurses...

...while 30,000 new nurses will be trained locally or recruited from overseas, 20,000 of the 50,000 roles announced will be existing nurses persuaded to stay in the profession"

Tells you a lot of what you need to know about this govt.
58
23/11/2020 11:28:39 2 2
bbc
... and yet, vacancies and interest in jobs within nursing particularly up Norf has increased quite dramatically
21
23/11/2020 11:16:31 17 8
bbc
Hopefully, the Chancellor realizes that the austerity experiment was a failure.

The flow of capital from productive investment and into assets must be reversed, the best way to do that is for the Government to invest in our productive economy, and make it an attractive and viable investment for private capital.

Austerity failed because it killed growth, that deflected private investment.
46
23/11/2020 11:24:51 3 11
bbc
Never was any austerity. Did not happen. Gov overall spending never fell.
184
23/11/2020 12:00:14 3 0
bbc
But large and sweeping cuts to public services were made.

Are you saying they were false economies?

And overall investment (public and private) fell.
47
23/11/2020 11:25:20 6 7
bbc
People are all to eager to have a pop at politicians but conveniently overlook the cause of our continuing covid problems. Ourselves!

One would have hoped that with the knowledge and scientific advancements in a century since Spanish flu we would be able to deal with it but that is all for nought as we, the people, have learnt nothing and still transmit it carelessly. More fool us!
73
23/11/2020 11:33:33 4 0
bbc
I agree, that covid would have had less effect if people took it more seriously - however the current government was slow in acting AND the fact we were still suffering from real term cuts to pretty much ever service definitely didn't help.
27
23/11/2020 11:15:33 5 15
bbc
Good job the economy will be helped by the Canadian trade deal sorted yesterday - the one that Remainers said wouldn't happen for years, if at all. Australia & New Zealand next. Well done Liz Truss.
48
23/11/2020 11:25:35 7 0
bbc
Hahahahahaha - the deal that is exactly the same as the one we had with the EU.

Good job that will make absolutely NO positive impact to the estimated £500 Billion deficit attributed to Brexit to date.

You Brexiteers really are genius's. How to make being much worse off in every possible way look like that's what you wanted.
11
23/11/2020 11:13:33 13 16
bbc
Any review will be outlined in the next budget. The rest is hearsay and rumours.

I am starting to get a bit peeved with the BBC HYS board. No opportunity to discuss the rigours occurring within the Labour Party Executive and the challenge to leadership. Re the stance on JC.
49
23/11/2020 11:25:52 11 3
bbc
we did not get a say about the Priti Patel situation which i find more disturbing as they are governing the labour party is not
238
23/11/2020 12:15:37 0 0
bbc
The subject has been dropped by all media as if there is no further interest in the result. BJ's team working hard to stop criticism?
35
23/11/2020 11:20:21 2 9
bbc
As we really didn't experience austerity the first time around I'm not really surprised that we won't get it this time.
50
23/11/2020 11:25:56 9 0
bbc
Tell that to the NHS, the schools and all the people forced to open tattoo shops and hairdresser because they couldn’t get a good job.
27
23/11/2020 11:15:33 5 15
bbc
Good job the economy will be helped by the Canadian trade deal sorted yesterday - the one that Remainers said wouldn't happen for years, if at all. Australia & New Zealand next. Well done Liz Truss.
51
23/11/2020 11:26:12 6 0
bbc
copy is best she can do and call it a victory,pm from canada wasnt so fussed only said initially.
28
23/11/2020 11:18:28 41 19
bbc
Until the start of the pandemic, UK debt was actually declining. But I do agree about UK politicians being clueless when it comes to promoting a successful trading environment.
52
23/11/2020 11:26:16 20 0
bbc
No deficit was declining, debt was therefore still rising. Please learn the difference
446
23/11/2020 13:13:25 1 2
bbc
'Austerity' - well the fun is really going to start once the European lock-down (and I include the UK in European) effects kick in. A virtual Davos get together in a month or so (I doubt they'd dare to have a 'real' Davos) is going to turn up some interesting things, and our whinging left may get a dose of reality they'll never recover from. Hopefully neither will any of the LibLabCons
40
23/11/2020 11:20:53 5 15
bbc
Public sector should be frozen. Almost none of them were furloughed, so they got paid in full. Its already almost impossible to get rid of them. I worked with the public sector and many of them were so bad and lazy they wouldn't have lasted a day in a private sector job....
53
23/11/2020 11:26:19 8 2
bbc
Oh goody let's make lots of sweeping generalisations, with no evidence to back them up, just an anecdote to suit the narrative!

Having had recent & extensive experience of "the public sector" I would have to fiercely refute your allegations!??
100
23/11/2020 11:37:16 0 0
bbc
Maybe a few things have changed. My experience is from 2002..
54
23/11/2020 11:26:29 5 6
bbc
Excellent news, but no doubt a certain section will disagree.
78
23/11/2020 11:35:20 5 3
bbc
As usual the devil will be in the detail! The problem being our PM doesn't do detail! ??
55
23/11/2020 11:26:32 27 7
bbc
The economy is a balance, while it's important to cut waste and improve efficiency - cutting into actual vital services and hitting the poorest people's pay packets only reduces spending and slows growth & productivity in the long run.

People who saw "jobs rise" under the Tories fail to realise that people on Zero hours tend to spend less due to the insecure nature of their jobs.
23
23/11/2020 11:17:13 59 37
bbc
Public workers have the luxury of not loosing their jobs, those working in lots of areas of private industry are not so lucky.

I would take a pay freeze for certainty of employment any time.
56
23/11/2020 11:28:17 19 2
bbc
My local council has cut around 25% of its workforce. Another 600 to go before April.
225
23/11/2020 12:11:54 11 12
bbc
In all honesty, that just goes to show how over staffed they must have been before. To many 'Directors of inclusivity' 'gender equality officers' etc that are not needed. The cull has been necessary. Tax payers pay for these people. Presumably with 25% less staff there will be massive cuts in council tax? No chance, public sector couldnt manage the money from a village fete properly!
42
23/11/2020 11:22:50 80 29
bbc
Austerity has been deadly for the economy. It has led to a diminution of sales and investment in the UK. Devaluation followed, and a massive deindustralisation due to foreign goods flooding our market. This led to a gig economy based on people starting small businesses because there are fewer good jobs.
If the Gov had invested in regrowing the real economy we would not be in as much trouble now.
57
23/11/2020 11:28:18 64 25
bbc
Precisely!

Austerity kills investment!

The private sector will never replace reduced public sector investment, quite the opposite in fact.

When it sees a real economy where growth is contracting, private capital will seek safe and easy havens in assets.

The idea that private capital will rush in where public investment is cut is a neo-liberal fantasy, as proved by the last decade.
178
23/11/2020 11:58:22 10 3
bbc
'Precisely! Austerity kills investment!'

And, unfortunately, people.
261
23/11/2020 12:23:47 10 0
bbc
The flow of capital away from the real productive economy and into assets must be reversed.

It is up to the Government to plan and invest in the real economy in a way that makes it attractive to private capital. That is how the modern economy works.

And after all, what are assets really worth without genuine wealth creation to underpin them?

And HS2??!! Pfffft! White elephant!
407
23/11/2020 13:02:44 2 4
bbc
Who is sending NASA astronauts into space these days? Who is building electric cars, who other than Russia's vaccine, is producing vaccines? You need specsavers or remove you left whinge blinkers.
646
23/11/2020 14:12:41 3 1
bbc
I have never heard the Tories described as neo-liberal before.
That austerity was a fantasy as a solution, yes.
23/11/2020 19:30:47 0 0
bbc
Worse of course is the obsession by government in ever growing house prices. Read Dambisa Moyo for the problems with investment going into unproductive bricks as against factories. Couple with the spending abroad which if you read and understand Keynes is going to shrink your economy it is little wonder BOTH Labour and Conservative have presided over disasters.
45
23/11/2020 11:24:44 12 9
bbc
"...spending commitments made by the government include the hiring of 50,000 more nurses...

...while 30,000 new nurses will be trained locally or recruited from overseas, 20,000 of the 50,000 roles announced will be existing nurses persuaded to stay in the profession"

Tells you a lot of what you need to know about this govt.
58
23/11/2020 11:28:39 2 2
bbc
... and yet, vacancies and interest in jobs within nursing particularly up Norf has increased quite dramatically
59
23/11/2020 11:29:22 4 8
bbc
I applaud Sunak's efforts but the government is throwing too much borrowed money at everything. We are dangerously in debt and have fallen in our global credit rating.

With self employed not declaring taxes and over half of working age people as net takers from the government, there is a smaller and smaller group paying tax against much bigger debt - not sustainable.
69
23/11/2020 11:32:32 3 2
bbc
sunak doesnt care hes loaded
71
23/11/2020 11:33:06 1 0
bbc
Some "...self employed not declaring taxes" not all, but I think a worryingly high number judging by my contacts, many laughing at the concern being expressed by Labour at Govt scheme not going far enough.
75
23/11/2020 11:34:13 1 2
bbc
total nonsense and misinformation, I paid my personal tax & Ni, corporation tax and vat and I am fully up to date, why do you people sprout such crap?
147
23/11/2020 11:51:38 0 0
bbc
Oh, well.

We'd better invest in some more productive better paid jobs then.

But dignity in labour for the galley slaves? For some reason a large section of our society balk at the idea.
483
23/11/2020 13:21:31 0 0
bbc
"With self employed not declaring taxes" - All of them? Evidence please.

"We are dangerously in debt and have fallen in our global credit rating" - Matters not a jot, as we have a sovereign currency and can basically just print more, invest it, and benefit from it.
60
23/11/2020 11:30:03 9 8
bbc
another one coming middle of january when brexit hammers jobs and exporters,this is a one time review before the reality of brexit sinks firmly in,a real dose of realism will descend on the brexiteers with the new austerity measures they so richly deserve,unfortunately it will be jobs lost and welfare increase that will see a new austerity model,you voted for the word now you will reap its reward
18
23/11/2020 11:15:59 3 21
bbc
The public sector needs a 20% pay reduction. Overpaid relative to others already and should be lower paid given all the other advantages like security and safe fat pensions. A mere freeze just drags itvout, cut hard.
61
23/11/2020 11:30:16 8 0
bbc
What nonsense. Statistics actually show that private sector pay increased whilst public sector wages were cut during the Tory 'austerity' period. Like for like comparison shows private sector workers earn much more than public equivalent, and the 'other advantages' only exist in your fevered, prejuidiced brain.
38
23/11/2020 11:20:57 2 5
bbc
If you make a profit of £1 per item, and sell 1 then £1 profit. If you make a profit of 10p per item, and sell 11 then £1.10 profit. we need a stimulus (even if only short term). VAT cut, Excise Duty Cut, Property Stamp Duty cut.
start valuing and rewarding the responsible majority. recovery will happen with work
and paying your bills.
62
23/11/2020 11:30:26 1 0
bbc
We blew all our NS oil revenues on tax 'incentives'.

No growth in productivity resulted.

Instead, that value filtered through into increased property and asset values.
63
23/11/2020 11:30:35 11 5
bbc
I expect a large portion of the national debt will be recouped from the 50,000 fewer state pensions the government now has to pay and maybe another 50,000 that will result from the 'Meet up at Christmas' scheme. And it is not just for one year it could represent decades of savings for the government. Plus other associated care and NHS costs. Never trust government 'schemes'.
64
23/11/2020 11:30:49 40 14
bbc
MkIII. 11:15
"Good job the economy will be helped by the Canadian trade deal sorted yesterday - the one that Remainers said wouldn't happen for years, if at all. Australia & New Zealand next. Well done Liz Truss."

How is a deal exactly the same as what we had, going to improve the economic recovery?

This ought to be a belter of an explanation!!!??
216
23/11/2020 12:08:22 15 10
bbc
Yup. We salavged from the mess a concession to have again what we already had. Tip Top. MKIII's (from the troll farm) statement has the same credibility as 'I didn't deliberately cut my own feet off yesterady so I am still able to walk today'. Geez. These muppets, hey.
571
23/11/2020 13:46:14 2 3
bbc
It isn't the same, we ditch the EU's protectionist tariffs. For example, why have anything to stop Citrus fruit imports? We applied them to save Spain's Citrus farmers, it cost our consumers in terms of higher prices.
23/11/2020 19:38:18 0 0
bbc
To be technically correct we dont have a trade deal with Canada, we agreed to continue the current arrangements. Still, it does put a finger up to those who reckoned we would be on WTO with everyone. To be honest though we need to slow trade because we have a trade deficit. This is best achieved with large tariffs and no deal.
65
23/11/2020 11:31:03 12 5
bbc
It will not spell austerity until the kids at Uni now will be middle aged.
They are stuffed basically.
66
23/11/2020 11:31:33 6 3
bbc
Maybe they're not planning austerity because it's been shown to do more harm than good?
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/27/austerity-policies-do-more-harm-than-good-imf-study-concludes
112
23/11/2020 11:42:34 0 2
bbc
Stopped as soon as I saw Guardian in the link.
Would do the same for Mirror/Mail/Express.
67
23/11/2020 11:32:27 4 9
bbc
Freeze public pay for at least two years, no one else is likely to get pay awards, anyway teachers etc usually get around pay rises by being regraded or given extra responsibilities only sector to benefit should be nursing. Not management front line staff. Also how about freezing pensions for a couple of years with inflation so low shouldn't be an issue along with benefits freeze.
92
23/11/2020 11:37:51 0 1
bbc
How discriminatory
95
23/11/2020 11:38:39 1 2
bbc
So following your 'logic', all those people whose income you're freezing will have less money to spend in the economy! How does this help stimulate recovery?

Another belter of an explanation!??
110
23/11/2020 11:42:21 2 1
bbc
Oh yeah, inflation...and how are we going to keep that down after the coming brexit dosaster?
28
23/11/2020 11:18:28 41 19
bbc
Until the start of the pandemic, UK debt was actually declining. But I do agree about UK politicians being clueless when it comes to promoting a successful trading environment.
68
23/11/2020 11:32:27 19 4
bbc
'UK politicians being clueless when it comes to promoting a successful trading environment.'

For a start, they followed the sheep who voted to savage the economy by leaving the EU.
456
23/11/2020 13:16:27 1 2
bbc
That was probably their smartest move. Do you read about what is going on in the EU and EZ? Clearly not. Poland and Hungary just vetoed the EU wide rescue package for covid. Southern Europe is too big for the EZ to save (and the EU for that matter) but may with help hang on for a bit longer, that help got postponed. The UK won't have to chip in, thank heaven, we've enough on our plate as is.
59
23/11/2020 11:29:22 4 8
bbc
I applaud Sunak's efforts but the government is throwing too much borrowed money at everything. We are dangerously in debt and have fallen in our global credit rating.

With self employed not declaring taxes and over half of working age people as net takers from the government, there is a smaller and smaller group paying tax against much bigger debt - not sustainable.
69
23/11/2020 11:32:32 3 2
bbc
sunak doesnt care hes loaded
27
23/11/2020 11:15:33 5 15
bbc
Good job the economy will be helped by the Canadian trade deal sorted yesterday - the one that Remainers said wouldn't happen for years, if at all. Australia & New Zealand next. Well done Liz Truss.
70
23/11/2020 11:32:37 2 0
bbc
I think you should wait and see what the eventual settlement with the Canadians will be;

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/brexit-canada-saturday-1.5396420
59
23/11/2020 11:29:22 4 8
bbc
I applaud Sunak's efforts but the government is throwing too much borrowed money at everything. We are dangerously in debt and have fallen in our global credit rating.

With self employed not declaring taxes and over half of working age people as net takers from the government, there is a smaller and smaller group paying tax against much bigger debt - not sustainable.
71
23/11/2020 11:33:06 1 0
bbc
Some "...self employed not declaring taxes" not all, but I think a worryingly high number judging by my contacts, many laughing at the concern being expressed by Labour at Govt scheme not going far enough.
72
23/11/2020 11:33:14 5 5
bbc
there's a magic money forest, so there must be some form of austerity
47
23/11/2020 11:25:20 6 7
bbc
People are all to eager to have a pop at politicians but conveniently overlook the cause of our continuing covid problems. Ourselves!

One would have hoped that with the knowledge and scientific advancements in a century since Spanish flu we would be able to deal with it but that is all for nought as we, the people, have learnt nothing and still transmit it carelessly. More fool us!
73
23/11/2020 11:33:33 4 0
bbc
I agree, that covid would have had less effect if people took it more seriously - however the current government was slow in acting AND the fact we were still suffering from real term cuts to pretty much ever service definitely didn't help.
74
23/11/2020 11:33:39 54 25
bbc
So with the largest UK recession on record, and the largest UK debt on record, austerity is not necessary. Yet with a fraction of that in 2010, it was? Doesn't this just prove that austerity was always a political choice, and those silly people who tried to blame Labour were definitely wrong?
89
23/11/2020 11:37:28 40 9
bbc
I agree, the Conservatives could have either chosen to invest and grow the economy through building up vital services or they could have cut & "balanced the chequebook". Only one of those options would allow them to throw constant blame on the proceeding Labour years & make future Labour policies to grow the economy look bad.

Yet Boris' found that Magic Money Tree as soon as it was his turn!
241
23/11/2020 12:17:45 1 8
bbc
We have not had a recession, we have had a massive fall in gdp for 1 quarter (ie negative growth) then it came back positive. Recession is 2 quarters in a row negative. Time will tell.
269
23/11/2020 12:27:40 0 12
bbc
Austerity never happened. It's a myth. Public spending increased - and continues to increase - every single year. Spending more isn't austerity in my book.
283
23/11/2020 12:29:38 7 0
bbc
It's worse than that the Tories could have done nothing (like the US) but Austerity slowed our recovery ensuring that the fictional period between crises when the "sun shines" where they can "fix the roof" never happened. And when a crisis hit? The Tories did what every Govt does, try to spend it's way out and subsidise those industries worst hit.
315
23/11/2020 12:40:12 1 14
bbc
Wrong. We were in a serious financial crisis in 2008, as was most of the rest of the world. In the UK it was made worse because the previous Labour government had spent too much money. Compared with the wartime years, it was not austerity at all, merely a reduction of the rate at which public spending was growing.
542
23/11/2020 13:37:16 0 2
bbc
No it means that you are blinkered and not looking at the EU, where 'Austerity' is policed by Germany and enforced in triplicate on Greece, and Belgium if their posters on Euronews a month or so ago were correct. Blaming their phenomenally high mortally per capita on their Government starving their health service of funds by following the EU sanctioned austerity. 'If the EU dun it it woz needed'
637
23/11/2020 14:09:48 0 2
bbc
Completely different recession. Without Covid the economy can quickly return whereas the liquidity and credit crunch in 2008 created as permanent downturn.
59
23/11/2020 11:29:22 4 8
bbc
I applaud Sunak's efforts but the government is throwing too much borrowed money at everything. We are dangerously in debt and have fallen in our global credit rating.

With self employed not declaring taxes and over half of working age people as net takers from the government, there is a smaller and smaller group paying tax against much bigger debt - not sustainable.
75
23/11/2020 11:34:13 1 2
bbc
total nonsense and misinformation, I paid my personal tax & Ni, corporation tax and vat and I am fully up to date, why do you people sprout such crap?
40
23/11/2020 11:20:53 5 15
bbc
Public sector should be frozen. Almost none of them were furloughed, so they got paid in full. Its already almost impossible to get rid of them. I worked with the public sector and many of them were so bad and lazy they wouldn't have lasted a day in a private sector job....
76
23/11/2020 11:34:16 1 0
bbc
If the value of public sector pay reduces, then private sector pay will follow it. Basic economics. It will still not help the govs problem of a low tax take. So taxes will rise, causing both further poverty and industrial unrest. Food banks will be supplying even more underpaid folk. Prices of consumer goods will rise to maintain profits. The cycle of poor getting poorer increases.
Bad idea.
3
23/11/2020 11:09:16 218 15
bbc
For the sake of fairness and setting an example, MP salaries and their expenses should be frozen: these combined are more than enough for them to get by.

Furthermore in an ideal world being an MP should mean not being allowed to work other paid jobs on top (a sizeable proportion do and have done over the years), especially with unemployment going up across the board.
77
23/11/2020 11:35:13 31 4
bbc
I recall one politician who was allowed to be mayor of London as well as a sitting MP, and also earning what he called 'chicken feed', although in fact mnaytimes the average salary, from writing whimsical , semi racist 'journalism'.
493
23/11/2020 13:23:51 3 3
bbc
Semi?
Letterboxes, and costing an innocent woman her freedom?
54
23/11/2020 11:26:29 5 6
bbc
Excellent news, but no doubt a certain section will disagree.
78
23/11/2020 11:35:20 5 3
bbc
As usual the devil will be in the detail! The problem being our PM doesn't do detail! ??
113
23/11/2020 11:42:59 0 2
bbc
that's why there are ministers, junior ministers and a civil service. Do you honestly believe that anyone at the top of an organisation 'does the detail'? Easy to keep trotting out anti-Boris slurs but try a bit of common sense first
162
23/11/2020 11:55:14 0 0
bbc
What’s with the pathetic emoji?
79
23/11/2020 11:35:55 9 12
bbc
What ever he does the usual ones will complain

"He's not spending enough!"
"He's spending too much!"

Just pure bitterness.
454
23/11/2020 13:15:20 1 0
bbc
The "usual ones" being you, Tess.

You forgot to say "the lefties" this time, but we all know that's what you meant.
80
23/11/2020 11:36:06 19 10
bbc
I will go for a wage freeze if dividends, profits and share prices are also frozen
140
23/11/2020 11:50:16 13 6
bbc
Oh dear a simpleton simple view

How do you freeze profit
218
23/11/2020 12:09:20 2 0
bbc
How do you freeze share prices, given that they are traded freely on an open market?
257
23/11/2020 12:22:38 3 1
bbc
OK, as long as you don't moan that your pension stagnates as most large companies are owned by pension funds.
594
23/11/2020 13:52:45 0 0
bbc
I"d go for a freeze on my share price, when the covid lock-down s*** across Europe hits the fan ,they would have dived. Still, keeping share prices up is also a benefit of QE, until it triggers inflation.
81
23/11/2020 11:36:14 1 5
bbc
MMT policy and negative rates is the only answer
82
23/11/2020 11:36:28 12 6
bbc
Trump. Beaten
Covid. Beaten
Brexit just needs to be converted to Brino and then our economy has a chance with young people leading our charge into the bright new global opportunities of the future.
18
23/11/2020 11:15:59 3 21
bbc
The public sector needs a 20% pay reduction. Overpaid relative to others already and should be lower paid given all the other advantages like security and safe fat pensions. A mere freeze just drags itvout, cut hard.
83
23/11/2020 11:36:35 7 0
bbc
Do you want to break that to the care workers and nurses who don't earn that much and have been putting themselves in harms way since day one of the pandemic....
84
Jim
23/11/2020 11:36:49 5 8
bbc
Three simple answers to this problem.

1) reduce tax evasion loopholes

2) ween UK society as a when off enemies

3) increase efficiencies in all public services

UK needs to get back to what is essential and what is nice to have. No way should anyone receive more in benefits than the modal average wage. Similarly public service execs should NOT earn the same as chief execs of private companies
99
23/11/2020 11:40:36 6 2
bbc
I don't think you will find ANY examples of your last two points. You've obvioulsy been reading tabloid fiction.
104
23/11/2020 11:41:06 3 1
bbc
I would agree with you that ideally no one should receive more than the modal average wave - the problem is that wages have been stagnant for such a long time that even the current "living wage" is leaving sections of the population in relative poverty. That's not including potential inflation in food prices expected in the New Year.
187
23/11/2020 12:01:06 0 1
bbc
Yes, dead simple. So why not give us the HOW rather than the WHAT? Starting with public service efficiencies.
85
23/11/2020 11:37:01 22 10
bbc
The public sector had a 20% pay cut in real terms from 2010-2020. If the Tories want to start attacking public sector pay then they should all go out on mass strikes, at the same time. Private pay improved greatly year on year in that time. Where are the strategies being publicised about how the rich are going to pay their part?
205
23/11/2020 12:04:08 13 2
bbc
Can you provide some data to back up your "private pay improved greatly" comment please?

I know from my own and many other's experience that such generalisations are often unfair... the directors may have done well, but those doing the well largely did not.
213
23/11/2020 12:07:00 3 2
bbc
A tax on assets similar to that applied in Switzerland that would ensure that those who own the UK are the ones who are asked to pay for the maintenance and security of their assets?
We don't charge the caretakers and gardeners for the maintenance of the assets they are employed to look after, why do we charge those who work for those who own the UK for the maintenance of other peoples assets?
237
23/11/2020 12:15:27 5 4
bbc
Think you are deluded. Of course public sector have had pay rises, they are just disguised as 'increments' for being there another year, regardless of whether they are any better. I know PS staff who passionately insist increments are not pay rises, but thats exactly what they are.
316
23/11/2020 12:41:13 2 5
bbc
Public sector have not had that type of cut. The salaries are in line with the private sector like for like. Add to that the 28+ days annual leave, the flex leave of 2 days per month, the Queen's birthday off, half day 1 April, nice pension, clocking off at 4 and job security, its hard to muster up sympathy for those working in the Food Standards Agency or Employment Service or other departments.
566
23/11/2020 13:44:31 0 3
bbc
Mass strikes will show that there are very few public sector jobs we really need, and we probably already know what they are.
86
23/11/2020 11:27:47 11 5
bbc
OH COME ON YOU LOVE AUSTERITY! THAT'S WHY YOU VOTED TORY AND.... OH YES FOOD-BANKS THEY ARE A MUST!

BOZO SAVES CHRISTMAS (NOT THE HIGH ST) I THOUGHT IT WAS MASTER-CARD! IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE IN-LAWS GIVE THEM A BIG KISS!

HONK HONK!

Adios
87
23/11/2020 11:37:10 6 9
bbc
Reducing the Foreign Aid budget would be very popular. Reducing it to 0.5% would still mean we give more that France & Germany

So much of the money either goes to big institutional charities or finds its way into the hands of officials & politicians in recipient countries, its a farce, companies have to adhere by the Bribery Act but the UK Gov't runs the biggest bribery slush fund of all - aid
115
23/11/2020 11:43:35 5 0
bbc
Think you need to read up on the AID budget how much money it really is - vs how much is actually handed in a voucher form - thant then gets spent on UK provision of the results. The amount is so small - all this talk of billions sounds big but is small change in the twist of it.
123
23/11/2020 11:46:02 2 0
bbc
It would be popular with a certain part of the population. However, that group of people have no idea what its actually for, so should be ignored.
88
23/11/2020 11:37:16 4 15
bbc
Labour are returning to their predictable opposition rhetoric.

It may persuade their supporters they are being tough.

But it does little to persuade anyone else they have anything to say worth listening to.
98
23/11/2020 11:39:50 9 1
bbc
Gosh fancy Labour the opposition opposing and using opposition rhetoric
74
23/11/2020 11:33:39 54 25
bbc
So with the largest UK recession on record, and the largest UK debt on record, austerity is not necessary. Yet with a fraction of that in 2010, it was? Doesn't this just prove that austerity was always a political choice, and those silly people who tried to blame Labour were definitely wrong?
89
23/11/2020 11:37:28 40 9
bbc
I agree, the Conservatives could have either chosen to invest and grow the economy through building up vital services or they could have cut & "balanced the chequebook". Only one of those options would allow them to throw constant blame on the proceeding Labour years & make future Labour policies to grow the economy look bad.

Yet Boris' found that Magic Money Tree as soon as it was his turn!
220
23/11/2020 12:09:41 14 1
bbc
Not only did they use it as an opportunity to blame Labour, they also cut taxes on big business and their rich cronies to maintain a deficit so they could continue to blame Labour and continue to cut services.
548
23/11/2020 13:39:09 0 5
bbc
So why do the Left Whinge whinge? You have what you voted for, though not the party, whereas the Tory voters didn't vote for it but got it anyway. Classic LibLabCon, vote for any of them and get Green Socialism. ;-)
23/11/2020 19:36:35 0 0
bbc
Keynes is correct, spending money in your economy creates demand, leads to employment which leads to tax to pay back the debt. The Americans ended the wall street crash of the 30s using this and building things like huge dams, the UK gvmt in the 30s gave huge loans to railway companies to build.
Labour and Cons in the last years have spent huge amounts of our money in Germany etc. making it worse
24
23/11/2020 11:17:24 1 7
bbc
Yes really is time we started cutting back not mere slowing the reckless increases which is all we have had recently.
90
23/11/2020 11:37:38 0 0
bbc
When will you realize that as you cut public investment the growth incentive for private investment decreases.

Austerity failed because, simply, it killed growth. What is the incentive to invest in a declining economy?
32
23/11/2020 11:19:42 114 34
bbc
Freeze MP's Pay
Tax Amazon, Google and Facebook properly
Keep pay rises in place for public sector workers

we all know who's worked hardest during the crisis
91
23/11/2020 11:37:42 72 57
bbc
absolute tosh. just doing your job does not constitute working the hardest. Do you think furloughed TfL workers were working the hardest? same applies to all the Whitehall civil servants 'working from home'
319
f
23/11/2020 12:41:40 18 6
bbc
Do not fight among ourselves. This is not a question of public vs private. This is a question of a broken system that allows socialism for the corporations and capitalism for the rest of us. If we allow ourselves to be divided we only lose what little power we have.
595
23/11/2020 13:52:54 6 0
bbc
Same applies to doctors and nurses - more than half the doctors were 'working from home' doing online calls for a few hours a day. Do you think the nursing staff from outpatients was working the ITU? Get real!
807
23/11/2020 16:12:20 4 1
bbc
So who do you think was processing all these Furlough payments and the 800% increase in applications for Universal Credit payments. Not the MP's but I suspect low paid civil servants as you said 'Working from Home' the keyword there is 'Working'. Not furloughed.
67
23/11/2020 11:32:27 4 9
bbc
Freeze public pay for at least two years, no one else is likely to get pay awards, anyway teachers etc usually get around pay rises by being regraded or given extra responsibilities only sector to benefit should be nursing. Not management front line staff. Also how about freezing pensions for a couple of years with inflation so low shouldn't be an issue along with benefits freeze.
92
23/11/2020 11:37:51 0 1
bbc
How discriminatory
97
23/11/2020 11:39:35 0 2
bbc
Why covers vast swath of population.
93
23/11/2020 11:38:16 79 21
bbc
All this, and especially the Daily Mail's headline non story today are despeate attempts to distract from the scandal of the billions of our money squandered by tory chums under the cover (so they thought) of the pandemic.
428
23/11/2020 13:09:00 11 18
bbc
Wow, a Daily Mail reader, I always wondered what they were like, clearly fruitcakes ;-)
923
23/11/2020 17:51:14 4 0
bbc
'More Austerity won't mean more Austerity' says Conservative Government Ministry of Truth about cuts to real wages.

Next week, 'only through poverty can we be rich'. That is why we are signing up to a thin Brexit deal that will cut the GDP of our Covid-ravaged and Conservatuve-corruption-leeched economy by a further 6%.
94
23/11/2020 11:38:22 2 7
bbc
Like it or not all of the borrowing taken for covid relief will have to be paid for. Of course Labour will blame the nasty tories as will the Mirror and the Grauniad. What matters is that there is a full an proper public review of the decisions made some of which will be guaranteed to have been unnecessary or wrong. This is the nature of management of crises we must learn the right lessons.
108
23/11/2020 11:42:08 6 3
bbc
Boris won't have any form of enquiry until after the 2024 GE! If he does, he & the Tory's are toast!??
67
23/11/2020 11:32:27 4 9
bbc
Freeze public pay for at least two years, no one else is likely to get pay awards, anyway teachers etc usually get around pay rises by being regraded or given extra responsibilities only sector to benefit should be nursing. Not management front line staff. Also how about freezing pensions for a couple of years with inflation so low shouldn't be an issue along with benefits freeze.
95
23/11/2020 11:38:39 1 2
bbc
So following your 'logic', all those people whose income you're freezing will have less money to spend in the economy! How does this help stimulate recovery?

Another belter of an explanation!??
127
23/11/2020 11:47:32 1 1
bbc
So public sector gets more money but those in private businesses unlikely to get any wage rise for years, probably grateful just to have a job. Cant continually feeding public sector unaffordable wage increases.
96
23/11/2020 11:34:53 8 3
bbc
the chancellor said: "You will not see austerity next week,

Maybe next month then, it's coming.
92
23/11/2020 11:37:51 0 1
bbc
How discriminatory
97
23/11/2020 11:39:35 0 2
bbc
Why covers vast swath of population.
88
23/11/2020 11:37:16 4 15
bbc
Labour are returning to their predictable opposition rhetoric.

It may persuade their supporters they are being tough.

But it does little to persuade anyone else they have anything to say worth listening to.
98
23/11/2020 11:39:50 9 1
bbc
Gosh fancy Labour the opposition opposing and using opposition rhetoric
84
Jim
23/11/2020 11:36:49 5 8
bbc
Three simple answers to this problem.

1) reduce tax evasion loopholes

2) ween UK society as a when off enemies

3) increase efficiencies in all public services

UK needs to get back to what is essential and what is nice to have. No way should anyone receive more in benefits than the modal average wage. Similarly public service execs should NOT earn the same as chief execs of private companies
99
23/11/2020 11:40:36 6 2
bbc
I don't think you will find ANY examples of your last two points. You've obvioulsy been reading tabloid fiction.
53
23/11/2020 11:26:19 8 2
bbc
Oh goody let's make lots of sweeping generalisations, with no evidence to back them up, just an anecdote to suit the narrative!

Having had recent & extensive experience of "the public sector" I would have to fiercely refute your allegations!??
100
23/11/2020 11:37:16 0 0
bbc
Maybe a few things have changed. My experience is from 2002..