Covid-19: Lung damage 'identified' in study
01/12/2020 | news | health | 370
Researchers are to investigate whether young people and those not in hospital could be affected.
1
01/12/2020 11:08:03 148 32
bbc
These studies contradict the 'it's just the flu' mob though?

Guess we'll have to wait to hear what David Icke & that bloke from Wetherspoons have to say before we get the real 'truth'.
Here come the comments section PhD holders, brace yourself!!
16
01/12/2020 11:18:52 14 6
bbc
look at the damage pneumonia does to your lungs, that last forever.
22
01/12/2020 11:21:04 12 47
bbc
It could be, with Flu viruses that this happens as well. But because it is Covid 19!!! It must be bad.
136
01/12/2020 12:35:16 3 18
bbc
Heathy lungs vs Covid scarred lungs though.

I believe tat Covid is real and Covid is bad... But "heathy lungs" is not something the majority of people hit hard by Covid 19 had before Covid so comparison might be a bit redundant. We know Covid hits the elderly and the unfit. Do elderly and unfit people have "healthy lungs" like those glowing in the pic?
188
01/12/2020 12:59:54 2 12
bbc
Influenza also damages the lungs....

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/090717150302.htm

Move along nothing new to see here, as TB damages the lungs too. A neglected disease that's increasingly resistant to antibiotics.

More CV 19 hype.
215
01/12/2020 13:20:00 2 0
bbc
It's not 'just the flu'; it's bat flu.
221
01/12/2020 13:28:39 0 2
bbc
Your mind is just as closed as Ickes if you use this info to reinforce a previously held bias.
249
01/12/2020 13:50:12 1 5
bbc
Im not part of "just the flu mob" but if your going to make condesending remarks like that at least do a little homework. Otherwise anyone who can do a basic search on the internet can come along and make you look a bit stupid. By the way, Flu can permanantly damage lungs too. LOOK IT UP.
305
01/12/2020 15:13:18 2 0
bbc
Kind of a public health notice:
My sister-in-law and her husband traveled to Venezuela to Colombia at the beginning of pandemic. He experienced shortness of breath symptoms while in Bogotá. She was OK. REGULAR scans now show damage in their lungs, hers and his.
They have never been tested. They are now OK.
But Doctor's opinion in Venezuela is they had the virus.
2
01/12/2020 11:09:23 4 42
bbc
Ten patients doesn't make a summer but it makes something the BBC can stuff in our faces to continue to instil irrational fear for a condition comparable to seasonal flu death numbers worldwide. Which is the view of WHO. Shame on you BBC
But the healthcare system burden and mortality is much greater than that of flu, hence the world's reaction. Luckily even a 7yr old can grasp this concept. Although many have poor knowledge of how many beds these patients take up and the amount of operations cancelled etc. The long term burden of following up these patients is yet more clinic time, more scans.

Really not that hard to understand.
55
01/12/2020 11:41:28 11 0
bbc
Only a few seem to see this as instilling irrational fear, the majority will see it as understanding another aspect of covid that we will have to deal with. That covid may have longer term effects seems to knock the "it's only a cold" theory so I'm not surprised you and yours gang up about this.
64
01/12/2020 11:48:53 3 0
bbc
If it is an irrational fear, would or will you personally move about in high risk areas like ICU’s without some sort of protection against this low risk disease, say as a hospital orderly, porter or cleaner? Possibly you also have this irrational fear.
3
01/12/2020 11:09:42 66 4
bbc
We are still learning about the long term effects of this virus - I recollect around 6 months ago there was a report regarding the lung capacity being reduced for professional swimmers who had caught it and recovered - be of interest to see if that reduced capacity is still in evidence. They were young, fit and in perfect health.
Worrying.
108
Me
01/12/2020 12:19:28 40 1
bbc
Wasn't just Swimmers, I read the article about runners who's lung capacity had dropped so bad they couldn't walk round a track let alone run. I'm a scuba diver and it's took 5 months for me to get back to being able to get round a supermarket without being out of breath.
197
01/12/2020 13:05:10 2 6
bbc
If you select subjects for a study your conclusions apply to the subjects you selected. You can't use a small selective study like this to draw conclusions about everyone who's had or might have Covid. In all probability any more extensive study will reveal that a small minority suffer permanent damage. This does happen with flu. People develop pneumonia, bronchitis and pleurisy.
4
01/12/2020 11:10:43 83 1
bbc
We really should be so grateful to those who continue to work so hard in progressing the science and treatment in relation to Covid, both with vaccines and otherwise. It’s also a reminder of the longer term effects of this virus that are still not properly understood. Hopefully this is a big step towards those with ongoing symptoms getting the help that they need.
52
01/12/2020 11:39:55 14 107
bbc
This is more Project Fear... no one has ever said you get "Long Flu" but this short term study of 10 people which isn't peer reviewed showed Covid has the same affect as Flu.
5
01/12/2020 11:11:26 57 4
bbc
I'm one of the team working on this project. Happy to help with questions.
21
01/12/2020 11:21:00 27 1
bbc
I live in Oxford and I had all the symptoms of Covid back in March. The week before I was in contact with a large group of chinese tourists (!) Unlike any flu I have ever had before. Since then I have had shortness of breath, very similar to that I have experienced at high altitude (eg 18,000 ft and above ). Not related to exercise, and particularly noticeable on first waking up.
29
01/12/2020 11:25:59 7 0
bbc
Thanks - I have been aware of the risk of asymptomatic lung damage but not much is being made of it in the media. Thoughts on whether it would be cumulative if it were indeed possible to catch the virus more than once?
44
01/12/2020 11:37:30 1 27
bbc
How much funding did you get for the study? Who is paying for this?
194
01/12/2020 13:04:07 2 3
bbc
Do you normally publish studies based on 10 results? And why didn't this show up on MRI or CT?
208
01/12/2020 13:12:54 3 1
bbc
Thank you to you and your colleagues. Is this study only looking at lung damage? There appears to be a certain amount of cognitive dysfunction, especially in language.
273
01/12/2020 14:09:03 0 0
bbc
I've had severe breathlessness and fatigue since March - happy to volunteer if it would help
291
01/12/2020 14:36:50 0 0
bbc
Hi Jgrist,

Do you have any information on the antibiotics/ medication they were on while ill?
316
01/12/2020 15:42:07 1 1
bbc
I posted above. My wife and I were infected in May. I made a full recovery, but she still has breathing difficulty. Our doctor is doing everything she knows to help -- it's like my wife has asthma now, which she never had before. She's an opera singer and so has a large lung capacity which is now diminished. I'd love if we could somehow contribute data to this project.
345
JJ
01/12/2020 22:09:23 0 1
bbc
Please include me if you need any volunteers with this project. I’ve been very unlucky twice this year, and my lungs have been battered! I taught fitness for 24years up until last September but am struggling to walk any distance at the moment!
357
02/12/2020 12:16:08 0 0
bbc
How do you get to volunteer? I have had it since October which I know is a short time but i feel like when I have a good day, I try to push myself but the next 2 or 3 days I feel back to square 1.
361
02/12/2020 13:30:43 0 0
bbc
So are there any putative treatments yet? I have increased my inhaled steroids to 1000mcg spread over 24 hrs as I also have asthma. Enough? Made sense to me and my GP as this seems to be ongoing inflammation. Doesn't remove the breathlessness but quietens it down. This isn't asthma as my Peak flow is only a little down and quite unlike prev 45 yrs. I'm not asking for medical advice just pointers.
6
01/12/2020 11:12:42 7 6
bbc
It sounds interesting, but a trial of ten people found eight of them who had complained of breathlessness had lung damage of some sort.

Worth further investigation and scaling up for sure, but just a tad early for any real conclusion isn't it?
12
01/12/2020 11:14:51 1 12
bbc
I think we should play it safe move to tier 4. Close some more shops and break open the Marlborough lights.
There are already studies looking at lung specimens showing the damage caused by abnormal clotting caused by covid-19. Look up lung histopathology on pubmed.
48
01/12/2020 11:38:36 9 0
bbc
That is exactly what the scientists say, well done for not bothering to read the article.
59
01/12/2020 11:43:10 2 0
bbc
I agree that we don't yet know the facts, but it is worth further investigation for sure.

"8/10 of those that complained of breathlessness" is not in itself informative until we also know what proportion of people complained of continued breathlessness. i.e. how many does the 10 in 8/10 actually represent? But this warrants thorough research.
7
01/12/2020 11:14:02 32 2
bbc
I had the same issues for ~6 months, and my GP said I was just one of many. X-ray didn't spot anything but I couldn't walk half a mile without having to stop for breath, so something was clearly wrong. But because the x-ray missed things I kind of got dropped.

It's got a fair bit better since Sept/Oct (got it in March) but it was awful for those 6 months.
129
Me
01/12/2020 12:30:50 5 1
bbc
I was ill back in june, Kept working but was so ill, Finally work told me to go to hospital in august because i wasn't getting well. 3/4 of my lungs weren't operating i was stuck in hospital for days and now it feels normal but i can't go scuba training to check. If my lungs are scarred wont be able to again anyway.
2
01/12/2020 11:09:23 4 42
bbc
Ten patients doesn't make a summer but it makes something the BBC can stuff in our faces to continue to instil irrational fear for a condition comparable to seasonal flu death numbers worldwide. Which is the view of WHO. Shame on you BBC
8
01/12/2020 11:15:27 21 1
bbc
But the healthcare system burden and mortality is much greater than that of flu, hence the world's reaction. Luckily even a 7yr old can grasp this concept. Although many have poor knowledge of how many beds these patients take up and the amount of operations cancelled etc. The long term burden of following up these patients is yet more clinic time, more scans.

Really not that hard to understand.
28
01/12/2020 11:25:52 10 0
bbc
But it seems that there unfortunately is a huge number of morons who do find it very hard to understand. This pandemic has highlighted the huge scale of people suffering serious mental health issues. The deniers need help.
9
01/12/2020 11:15:29 123 15
bbc
We live in an information age, yet disinformation and conspiracy theory seem to be outweighing the truth.

Every single Covid denier should volunteer themselves for either part in the studies, or to help out in hospitals treating Covid patients. After all, they won't need to bother with pesky PPE and if they're volunteering to be infected, so as to allow study, it's only a cold, after all.
70
01/12/2020 11:47:37 16 106
bbc
I would happily volunteer to be infected today if it meant I could then get on with my life instead of having my civil liberties suppressed
117
01/12/2020 12:24:43 8 25
bbc
All this information age is delivering is a selected, Government approved version of the truth.
Apparently, this is non negotiable and not open to debate.
306
01/12/2020 15:13:34 1 0
bbc
Kind of a public health notice:
My sister-in-law and her husband traveled to Venezuela to Colombia at the beginning of pandemic. He experienced shortness of breath symptoms while in Bogotá. She was OK. REGULAR scans now show damage in their lungs, hers and his.
They have never been tested. They are now OK.
But Doctor's opinion in Venezuela is they had the virus.
10
01/12/2020 11:15:52 54 18
bbc
Just another reason why defaulting to herd immunity was never a good idea.
114
01/12/2020 12:23:29 8 9
bbc
We didn't default to herd imnmunity. Where have been for most of the year?
11
01/12/2020 11:16:01 47 3
bbc
For what it is worth, Aged 73 I had many of the Covid symptoms in early March. Unlike any flu I have ever had. I have since then also experienced shortness of breath, particularly when first waking up.
6
01/12/2020 11:12:42 7 6
bbc
It sounds interesting, but a trial of ten people found eight of them who had complained of breathlessness had lung damage of some sort.

Worth further investigation and scaling up for sure, but just a tad early for any real conclusion isn't it?
12
01/12/2020 11:14:51 1 12
bbc
I think we should play it safe move to tier 4. Close some more shops and break open the Marlborough lights.
13
01/12/2020 11:17:01 37 3
bbc
Sorry to say this but I had severe lung damage after pneumonia in both lungs over 20 years ago, my lungs have never recovered altogether leaving me asthmatic and with COPD for which I am under medication for forever. so its not only Covid that causes lung damage.
23
01/12/2020 11:21:11 57 1
bbc
They aren't saying it is, but they are flagging that COVID is a new attack vector
25
01/12/2020 11:24:29 17 0
bbc
I genuinely feel for you, but this appears to be more to do with lung damage that isn't readily visible through normal means. Heaven forbid that you should contract Covid, as the damage already done is likely to be exacerbated to an even greater degree.
31
01/12/2020 11:29:56 19 0
bbc
Nowhere in the article does it say that COVID is the only disease that causes lung damage.
43
01/12/2020 11:37:25 22 1
bbc
No it's not, but it's certainly not the case that 0.5% will die and 99.5% will be unaffected, as being pushed by the 'protect the vulnerable, let me go to the pub' brigade
45
01/12/2020 11:37:31 2 9
bbc
Wow, there was lung damage before covid, who would have thought it...…?
158
Me
01/12/2020 12:43:44 10 0
bbc
Sorry to hear that, but unlike pneumonia, covid is really easy to catch and spreads fast without prevention.

The number of people potentially ending up in the poor state of health you now experience is way way more than would be normal if just flu and pneumonia were the dangers.
172
01/12/2020 12:51:08 6 0
bbc
This article is not claiming it is only Covid-19 which can cause lung damage.

It’s true there are other causes of lung damage. This is just reporting that Covid-19 appears to be a new one. That should just be a reminder for folks like you, to try avoid getting a Covid-19 infection.
248
01/12/2020 13:50:08 4 0
bbc
Where is the evidence for a claim that lung damage is a result only of contracting Covid? The study is attempting to asses the impact of Covid on lung capacity and developing new ways of assessing it. In all likelihood that study will transfer to other respiratory diseases and aid in their treatment. Win/win surely.
328
01/12/2020 16:53:52 0 0
bbc
Me too, though my COPD was most likely caused by 50 years of casual smoking..of course I don't smoke now but the damage is done...I live in dread of getting infected..that'll polish me off I reckon...which is a shame as I also still scuba dive, ride a motorcycle and have a life I quite enjoy...it's not over at 67,umm, unless it's over.
1
01/12/2020 11:08:03 148 32
bbc
These studies contradict the 'it's just the flu' mob though?

Guess we'll have to wait to hear what David Icke & that bloke from Wetherspoons have to say before we get the real 'truth'.
14
01/12/2020 11:17:13 43 17
bbc
Here come the comments section PhD holders, brace yourself!!
71
01/12/2020 11:51:20 5 27
bbc
An unnecessary flippant remark.
153
01/12/2020 12:42:41 3 3
bbc
You don't need a PhD to identify "10" as a small number!
15
01/12/2020 11:17:29 1 5
bbc
As there are a fair amount of people taking other drugs for pre existing conditions, will the vaccine affect these in any way? I cannot see anywhere any mention of this aspect
41
01/12/2020 11:36:58 8 2
bbc
Funnily enough the scientists did not investigate every aspect of everything covid, and the BBC reported what the scientists did, so complaining that your pet subject wasn't raised is pretty irrelevant.
1
01/12/2020 11:08:03 148 32
bbc
These studies contradict the 'it's just the flu' mob though?

Guess we'll have to wait to hear what David Icke & that bloke from Wetherspoons have to say before we get the real 'truth'.
16
01/12/2020 11:18:52 14 6
bbc
look at the damage pneumonia does to your lungs, that last forever.
120
Pip
01/12/2020 12:26:34 5 3
bbc
And TB, I know had both aged 3 in 52
181
01/12/2020 12:56:40 2 7
bbc
what is the "pneumonia" you speak of? There is only Covid.
17
01/12/2020 11:18:58 60 14
bbc
If 10% of people who catch the virus do end up with permanent lung damage, just imagine the human *and* economic cost of failing to contain the pandemic.

I hope the MPs take this into account in their debate. The long term economic cost of letting it spread uncontrollably may far outweigh the impact to the economy due to lockdown measures.
38
01/12/2020 11:36:12 20 86
bbc
Sorry but this is more Project Fear. A study of 10 people, not peer reviewed, not over a long timescale, discovers the affects are similar to Flu. Lets get vaccinated and move on. The poverty that is definitely being caused by Covid is a far greater killer, here in Cumbria Suicides were up 39% this year as business after business collapses.
18
01/12/2020 11:19:05 38 10
bbc
This fining was reported long time ago from China-- even after a COVID patient recovered, you might lose up to 1/3 capacity of your lung for breathing

So, brits, keep up lockdown and wear mask.....
37
01/12/2020 11:35:34 27 1
bbc
Yes, and this British study has added to the understanding of how, where and what the lung damage is! So good news!
6
01/12/2020 11:12:42 7 6
bbc
It sounds interesting, but a trial of ten people found eight of them who had complained of breathlessness had lung damage of some sort.

Worth further investigation and scaling up for sure, but just a tad early for any real conclusion isn't it?
19
01/12/2020 11:20:14 7 0
bbc
There are already studies looking at lung specimens showing the damage caused by abnormal clotting caused by covid-19. Look up lung histopathology on pubmed.
20
01/12/2020 11:17:14 6 1
bbc
Treadmills are very good ways to control your speeds with low impact on joints to repair lungs that have been damaged or are simply badly out of shape. Golf courses are also fun ways to work the lungs, my 80 year old Dad is trying to get his open. He needs it to also relax when he is not running his business.
143
01/12/2020 12:37:43 4 0
bbc
I would suspect that treadmills may not be the solution for significant lung damage.
5
01/12/2020 11:11:26 57 4
bbc
I'm one of the team working on this project. Happy to help with questions.
21
01/12/2020 11:21:00 27 1
bbc
I live in Oxford and I had all the symptoms of Covid back in March. The week before I was in contact with a large group of chinese tourists (!) Unlike any flu I have ever had before. Since then I have had shortness of breath, very similar to that I have experienced at high altitude (eg 18,000 ft and above ). Not related to exercise, and particularly noticeable on first waking up.
51
01/12/2020 11:39:34 3 4
bbc
18000’ what are you - a balloonist or a professional mountaineer? Or maybe just a plain old Walter Mitty type
193
01/12/2020 13:03:56 11 0
bbc
I had it in March too. Still get breathlessness and some minor chest pain despite a clear CT scan and 3 negative tests. I like the idea that all the naysayers should volunteer to work in Covid wards.
1
01/12/2020 11:08:03 148 32
bbc
These studies contradict the 'it's just the flu' mob though?

Guess we'll have to wait to hear what David Icke & that bloke from Wetherspoons have to say before we get the real 'truth'.
22
01/12/2020 11:21:04 12 47
bbc
It could be, with Flu viruses that this happens as well. But because it is Covid 19!!! It must be bad.
Covid-19 specifically causes clots everywhere. It's why young people are randomly having brain bleeds. Already lost a 30 year old colleague to brain haemorrhage. Young people having TIAs, strokes. Look it up on pubmed. It is published science.
26
Dea
01/12/2020 11:24:36 33 1
bbc
Surely anything that affects people in this way is not GOOD?
39
01/12/2020 11:36:12 21 2
bbc
Yes flu can be bad but those most at risk are vaccinated.
( certainly don't want any damage to my lungs.
258
01/12/2020 13:54:57 3 0
bbc
dont deal with hypotheticals....produce the facts, oh wait....there arent any to say that Flu causes lung damage is there!

hope you're in tier 3, idiots who promote the notion this isnt serious dont deserve the time of day
13
01/12/2020 11:17:01 37 3
bbc
Sorry to say this but I had severe lung damage after pneumonia in both lungs over 20 years ago, my lungs have never recovered altogether leaving me asthmatic and with COPD for which I am under medication for forever. so its not only Covid that causes lung damage.
23
01/12/2020 11:21:11 57 1
bbc
They aren't saying it is, but they are flagging that COVID is a new attack vector
22
01/12/2020 11:21:04 12 47
bbc
It could be, with Flu viruses that this happens as well. But because it is Covid 19!!! It must be bad.
24
01/12/2020 11:23:47 41 3
bbc
Covid-19 specifically causes clots everywhere. It's why young people are randomly having brain bleeds. Already lost a 30 year old colleague to brain haemorrhage. Young people having TIAs, strokes. Look it up on pubmed. It is published science.
102
VF
01/12/2020 12:17:06 32 5
bbc
Absolutely.

The problem is that this doesn’t fit the conspiracy theory or “it’s only flu” mantra.

It’s like a section of the U.K. have become Trump supporters or follow trumpology. And you can’t argue with a conspiracy theorist or anti vaxxer.

The report is no surprise as we saw patients with exactly the same findings in in April/May. And nothing like pneumonia or flu.

Despite Karen’s claims
157
01/12/2020 12:43:36 1 3
bbc
Have you got a PhD in looking things up in the internet?
191
01/12/2020 13:01:54 1 3
bbc
You do realise that clots and bleeds are complete opposites? You ought to read a bit more science
13
01/12/2020 11:17:01 37 3
bbc
Sorry to say this but I had severe lung damage after pneumonia in both lungs over 20 years ago, my lungs have never recovered altogether leaving me asthmatic and with COPD for which I am under medication for forever. so its not only Covid that causes lung damage.
25
01/12/2020 11:24:29 17 0
bbc
I genuinely feel for you, but this appears to be more to do with lung damage that isn't readily visible through normal means. Heaven forbid that you should contract Covid, as the damage already done is likely to be exacerbated to an even greater degree.
57
01/12/2020 11:42:28 6 4
bbc
My wife had the same lung damage after pneumonia as baldeagle (she has also presented with many of the other reported 'long covid' symptoms) and her condition has baffled the medics and none have ever been able to say what is wrong.
Perhaps now with Covid seemingly being the only disease that matters, we will finally get some sort of treatment for all 'long pneumonia' sufferers too.
22
01/12/2020 11:21:04 12 47
bbc
It could be, with Flu viruses that this happens as well. But because it is Covid 19!!! It must be bad.
26
Dea
01/12/2020 11:24:36 33 1
bbc
Surely anything that affects people in this way is not GOOD?
27
01/12/2020 11:23:50 27 7
bbc
This is extremely important - and I hope raises more awareness of the reality and dangers of “long covid” - something that seems to affect younger people most (I.e students getting wrecked in the pub)
72
01/12/2020 11:52:39 11 31
bbc
Flu can also cause lung damage. Funny how nobody ever thought that was extremely important.

We have lost all perspective.
But the healthcare system burden and mortality is much greater than that of flu, hence the world's reaction. Luckily even a 7yr old can grasp this concept. Although many have poor knowledge of how many beds these patients take up and the amount of operations cancelled etc. The long term burden of following up these patients is yet more clinic time, more scans.

Really not that hard to understand.
28
01/12/2020 11:25:52 10 0
bbc
But it seems that there unfortunately is a huge number of morons who do find it very hard to understand. This pandemic has highlighted the huge scale of people suffering serious mental health issues. The deniers need help.
Ah but the 7yr old can grasp the numbers and simple logic, they are yet to be tainted by conspiracy theories and adopting the "anti-published evidence" craze we have in society right now. Your facebook PhD is worth more than any other qualification right now. Who needs experts anyway??
125
01/12/2020 12:29:02 0 2
bbc
"This pandemic has highlighted the huge scale of people suffering serious mental health issues"

.. but these 'issues' have been exacerbated by the over-reaction, which is exactly what wellandcomp was complaining about. As are those you call 'deniers'.
5
01/12/2020 11:11:26 57 4
bbc
I'm one of the team working on this project. Happy to help with questions.
29
01/12/2020 11:25:59 7 0
bbc
Thanks - I have been aware of the risk of asymptomatic lung damage but not much is being made of it in the media. Thoughts on whether it would be cumulative if it were indeed possible to catch the virus more than once?
65
01/12/2020 11:49:00 2 0
bbc
Not sure I can answer that one yet - we're still running studies to look at that!
30
01/12/2020 11:28:24 4 27
bbc
Many other things cause lung damage - smoking, vaping, old fashioned flu - and isn't xenon the stuff they put in car bulbs ? . Not to denigrate the seriousness of Covid, or the validity of this research, but do we really need any more doom and gloom about this virus ?
32
01/12/2020 11:31:43 20 1
bbc
Really? You don't think it's worth trying to determine what sort of lung damage occurs, so that they can develop appropriate treatments? You seriously consider that "doom and gloom"? SMH.
What an idiot. This is not doom and gloom -this is understanding the damage that the virus can do and having the knowledge to treat it better. Knowledge is power and the more we know about this horrible disease the better. Removed
133
01/12/2020 12:33:24 3 0
bbc
... how does the fact that xenon is used in car headlights prejudice this research ... it just shows that xenon has more than one use ....
13
01/12/2020 11:17:01 37 3
bbc
Sorry to say this but I had severe lung damage after pneumonia in both lungs over 20 years ago, my lungs have never recovered altogether leaving me asthmatic and with COPD for which I am under medication for forever. so its not only Covid that causes lung damage.
31
01/12/2020 11:29:56 19 0
bbc
Nowhere in the article does it say that COVID is the only disease that causes lung damage.
30
01/12/2020 11:28:24 4 27
bbc
Many other things cause lung damage - smoking, vaping, old fashioned flu - and isn't xenon the stuff they put in car bulbs ? . Not to denigrate the seriousness of Covid, or the validity of this research, but do we really need any more doom and gloom about this virus ?
32
01/12/2020 11:31:43 20 1
bbc
Really? You don't think it's worth trying to determine what sort of lung damage occurs, so that they can develop appropriate treatments? You seriously consider that "doom and gloom"? SMH.
They don't realise the number of patients that will need scans and clinic appointments. The case numbers dwarf flu. Damage even in patients that didn't go anywhere near hospital.
33
01/12/2020 11:32:01 7 34
bbc
Project fear continues, read the detail and the affects are... you guessed it... exactly the same as a bad dose of flu. This is a study of 10 patients with no peer review. This is really irresponsible reporting and a waste of licence payers money, especially ironic as those most at risk now have to add paying a licence fee to their woes... shame on the BBC.
Except that coagulopathy in covid-19 is already well published. You should really do your research before making comments.
49
01/12/2020 11:38:59 10 2
bbc
An epidemic that has already killed nearly 60,000 people in the UK (that we know of) in the space of 9 months, is not a 'bad dose of flu'. Many are failing to fully recover and doctors, so far, have been unable to offer answers. This is a responsible report.
50
01/12/2020 11:39:05 6 4
bbc
Obviously a Brexiteer
61
01/12/2020 11:44:10 8 1
bbc
It is not FEAR to be concerned. Many of us fear the irresponsible and irrelevant comments such as these gaining any sort of credibility. Getting over / past COVID requests the support of all to minimise the effects to all
28
01/12/2020 11:25:52 10 0
bbc
But it seems that there unfortunately is a huge number of morons who do find it very hard to understand. This pandemic has highlighted the huge scale of people suffering serious mental health issues. The deniers need help.
34
01/12/2020 11:32:51 6 0
bbc
Ah but the 7yr old can grasp the numbers and simple logic, they are yet to be tainted by conspiracy theories and adopting the "anti-published evidence" craze we have in society right now. Your facebook PhD is worth more than any other qualification right now. Who needs experts anyway??
30
01/12/2020 11:28:24 4 27
bbc
Many other things cause lung damage - smoking, vaping, old fashioned flu - and isn't xenon the stuff they put in car bulbs ? . Not to denigrate the seriousness of Covid, or the validity of this research, but do we really need any more doom and gloom about this virus ?
What an idiot. This is not doom and gloom -this is understanding the damage that the virus can do and having the knowledge to treat it better. Knowledge is power and the more we know about this horrible disease the better. Removed
36
01/12/2020 11:35:02 6 9
bbc
If Prof. Gleeson discovered Covid lung damage in 8 out of 10 patients, how does Dr Hayles estimate that up to just 10% of those who have had Covid have some form of lung damage?

I'm no mathematician, but that doesn't quite work for me.
83
01/12/2020 12:03:54 4 2
bbc
Clearly not a mathematician.

Prof. Gleeson tested 10 people of whom 8 "had persistent shortness of breath and tiredness 3 months after being ill with coronavirus".
Dr. Hayles believes that "up to 10% of those who have had Covid-19 might have some form of lung damage which is leading to prolonged symptoms".

Different sets of people
18
01/12/2020 11:19:05 38 10
bbc
This fining was reported long time ago from China-- even after a COVID patient recovered, you might lose up to 1/3 capacity of your lung for breathing

So, brits, keep up lockdown and wear mask.....
37
01/12/2020 11:35:34 27 1
bbc
Yes, and this British study has added to the understanding of how, where and what the lung damage is! So good news!
349
02/12/2020 03:19:03 0 1
bbc
It is not a study. Sampe is too small. If they said 10 people from your street were found to have this dsmage, would you move?
17
01/12/2020 11:18:58 60 14
bbc
If 10% of people who catch the virus do end up with permanent lung damage, just imagine the human *and* economic cost of failing to contain the pandemic.

I hope the MPs take this into account in their debate. The long term economic cost of letting it spread uncontrollably may far outweigh the impact to the economy due to lockdown measures.
38
01/12/2020 11:36:12 20 86
bbc
Sorry but this is more Project Fear. A study of 10 people, not peer reviewed, not over a long timescale, discovers the affects are similar to Flu. Lets get vaccinated and move on. The poverty that is definitely being caused by Covid is a far greater killer, here in Cumbria Suicides were up 39% this year as business after business collapses.
Not project fear, project science. It is affecting society at all levels. This article isn't denying that. Just advancing on well published evidence that covid-19 causes coagulopathy, or multiple clots, which are causing havoc around the body. The survivors will have a huge burden on the healthcare system and we have to plan for that.
Tories have never cared about poverty anyway.
303
01/12/2020 15:11:01 3 1
bbc
Hold your horses! Medical practitioners have already told us that what they are seiing in COVID-infected lungs is unlike anything they have yet seen and not like flu at all. Of course most will probably make a full recovery, but how many hundreds of thousands of lives should be ruined or destroyed because 'its all hype'?
311
01/12/2020 15:31:13 3 0
bbc
The term project fear has a lot to answer for. There is a very long queue for the long covid clinic here, where the virus has been relatively low. This condition is not like anything I have had from flu in the past and it sickens me that people are still calling Covid 19 "flu". Yes, the economic situation is bad, but opening up too quickly, as we did before, is daft. Shop out to help out???
22
01/12/2020 11:21:04 12 47
bbc
It could be, with Flu viruses that this happens as well. But because it is Covid 19!!! It must be bad.
39
01/12/2020 11:36:12 21 2
bbc
Yes flu can be bad but those most at risk are vaccinated.
( certainly don't want any damage to my lungs.
33
01/12/2020 11:32:01 7 34
bbc
Project fear continues, read the detail and the affects are... you guessed it... exactly the same as a bad dose of flu. This is a study of 10 patients with no peer review. This is really irresponsible reporting and a waste of licence payers money, especially ironic as those most at risk now have to add paying a licence fee to their woes... shame on the BBC.
40
01/12/2020 11:36:17 15 1
bbc
Except that coagulopathy in covid-19 is already well published. You should really do your research before making comments.
15
01/12/2020 11:17:29 1 5
bbc
As there are a fair amount of people taking other drugs for pre existing conditions, will the vaccine affect these in any way? I cannot see anywhere any mention of this aspect
41
01/12/2020 11:36:58 8 2
bbc
Funnily enough the scientists did not investigate every aspect of everything covid, and the BBC reported what the scientists did, so complaining that your pet subject wasn't raised is pretty irrelevant.
32
01/12/2020 11:31:43 20 1
bbc
Really? You don't think it's worth trying to determine what sort of lung damage occurs, so that they can develop appropriate treatments? You seriously consider that "doom and gloom"? SMH.
42
01/12/2020 11:37:20 8 0
bbc
They don't realise the number of patients that will need scans and clinic appointments. The case numbers dwarf flu. Damage even in patients that didn't go anywhere near hospital.
13
01/12/2020 11:17:01 37 3
bbc
Sorry to say this but I had severe lung damage after pneumonia in both lungs over 20 years ago, my lungs have never recovered altogether leaving me asthmatic and with COPD for which I am under medication for forever. so its not only Covid that causes lung damage.
43
01/12/2020 11:37:25 22 1
bbc
No it's not, but it's certainly not the case that 0.5% will die and 99.5% will be unaffected, as being pushed by the 'protect the vulnerable, let me go to the pub' brigade
5
01/12/2020 11:11:26 57 4
bbc
I'm one of the team working on this project. Happy to help with questions.
44
01/12/2020 11:37:30 1 27
bbc
How much funding did you get for the study? Who is paying for this?
67
01/12/2020 11:49:58 23 0
bbc
Good question - we got somewhere in the region of £20-50k, from funding agencies in the UK. We don't get personally paid by this funding, its just used for scanning patients.
13
01/12/2020 11:17:01 37 3
bbc
Sorry to say this but I had severe lung damage after pneumonia in both lungs over 20 years ago, my lungs have never recovered altogether leaving me asthmatic and with COPD for which I am under medication for forever. so its not only Covid that causes lung damage.
45
01/12/2020 11:37:31 2 9
bbc
Wow, there was lung damage before covid, who would have thought it...…?
113
01/12/2020 12:22:53 0 8
bbc
Some of the ten people studies may well have had lung damage 'before covid'.
46
01/12/2020 11:38:20 7 9
bbc
Covid 19 will have caused more brain damage than lung damage in the long run. My brain is F%^£$D and I haven't even had covid 19.
53
01/12/2020 11:40:04 9 1
bbc
Looking at some of the posts today I think it is here and doing damage.
58
01/12/2020 11:42:54 3 1
bbc
Big B, I agree , major depression hits me, usually when the government make a new rule.
79
01/12/2020 12:00:57 1 0
bbc
Its good you have not had it (yet).
47
01/12/2020 11:38:28 42 15
bbc
This virus does more damage than people imagine as we are finding out but still the virus denoers and the covidiots will scream about freedoms.
66
01/12/2020 11:49:30 14 48
bbc
100's of millions have died under oppressive regimes and millions fought and died to free us from them. There is no question that surrendering freedoms is far more dangerous than this virus. History deniers screaming the propaganda fed them by the masters in whom they misplace their trust.
6
01/12/2020 11:12:42 7 6
bbc
It sounds interesting, but a trial of ten people found eight of them who had complained of breathlessness had lung damage of some sort.

Worth further investigation and scaling up for sure, but just a tad early for any real conclusion isn't it?
48
01/12/2020 11:38:36 9 0
bbc
That is exactly what the scientists say, well done for not bothering to read the article.
33
01/12/2020 11:32:01 7 34
bbc
Project fear continues, read the detail and the affects are... you guessed it... exactly the same as a bad dose of flu. This is a study of 10 patients with no peer review. This is really irresponsible reporting and a waste of licence payers money, especially ironic as those most at risk now have to add paying a licence fee to their woes... shame on the BBC.
49
01/12/2020 11:38:59 10 2
bbc
An epidemic that has already killed nearly 60,000 people in the UK (that we know of) in the space of 9 months, is not a 'bad dose of flu'. Many are failing to fully recover and doctors, so far, have been unable to offer answers. This is a responsible report.
33
01/12/2020 11:32:01 7 34
bbc
Project fear continues, read the detail and the affects are... you guessed it... exactly the same as a bad dose of flu. This is a study of 10 patients with no peer review. This is really irresponsible reporting and a waste of licence payers money, especially ironic as those most at risk now have to add paying a licence fee to their woes... shame on the BBC.
50
01/12/2020 11:39:05 6 4
bbc
Obviously a Brexiteer
21
01/12/2020 11:21:00 27 1
bbc
I live in Oxford and I had all the symptoms of Covid back in March. The week before I was in contact with a large group of chinese tourists (!) Unlike any flu I have ever had before. Since then I have had shortness of breath, very similar to that I have experienced at high altitude (eg 18,000 ft and above ). Not related to exercise, and particularly noticeable on first waking up.
51
01/12/2020 11:39:34 3 4
bbc
18000’ what are you - a balloonist or a professional mountaineer? Or maybe just a plain old Walter Mitty type
4
01/12/2020 11:10:43 83 1
bbc
We really should be so grateful to those who continue to work so hard in progressing the science and treatment in relation to Covid, both with vaccines and otherwise. It’s also a reminder of the longer term effects of this virus that are still not properly understood. Hopefully this is a big step towards those with ongoing symptoms getting the help that they need.
52
01/12/2020 11:39:55 14 107
bbc
This is more Project Fear... no one has ever said you get "Long Flu" but this short term study of 10 people which isn't peer reviewed showed Covid has the same affect as Flu.
95
01/12/2020 12:14:14 10 3
bbc
Having a large sample in this instance means nothing.... if you read the article this new testing technique was applied to 10 people who were having breathing problems 3 MONTHS after having COVID and traditional scans showed no issues. It is pointless applying it to everyone who had covid as it is looking at a specific issue related to the disease that may not effect everyone.
126
VF
01/12/2020 12:29:23 16 2
bbc
And your basing this on what? First hand knowledge and experience or what FB says or an American crackpot.??

We haven’t had this pressure on Critical capacity since their introduction. That the numbers are high in many ICU’s despite lockdown should be a concern. Flu has NEVER caused the numbers we have seen in the timespan. The closest was 2008 with swine flu,which came nowhere near C-19’s impact
166
01/12/2020 12:47:13 10 1
bbc
Oh dear.
203
01/12/2020 13:09:11 7 1
bbc
Always with the project fear excuse. Well, the original project fear will be seen as project reality soon, and just like Trump you will have to fight the mental battle between what is happening and what you wrongly believe.
204
01/12/2020 13:11:31 6 1
bbc
I remember Long Flu in a Bruce Lee film, he was class.
230
01/12/2020 13:41:04 1 0
bbc
lol.. no it didn't.
271
01/12/2020 14:10:08 3 0
bbc
"..this short term study of 10 people which isn't peer reviewed showed Covid has the same affect as Flu". According to Mac Sinclair. Thanks Mac. I assume you think that Flu's not that bad, but this is worse than most flus according to the medical establishment in every country on earth and overwhelmingly thinks this the worst disease we've faced since 1918's FLU but great to have your view.
286
01/12/2020 14:30:33 4 0
bbc
Seasonal flu doesn't cause this type of long term damage. Flu rarely causes any longer term effects at all. If a new more deadly strain of flu emerged, then it could be as bad as COVID or worse, but then that would require the same sort of measures to be taken to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed.
290
01/12/2020 14:35:15 3 1
bbc
I think you mean "project common sense". This is a think that is sadly missing with the conspiracy theorists.
333
01/12/2020 19:23:30 3 0
bbc
Fool
46
01/12/2020 11:38:20 7 9
bbc
Covid 19 will have caused more brain damage than lung damage in the long run. My brain is F%^£$D and I haven't even had covid 19.
53
01/12/2020 11:40:04 9 1
bbc
Looking at some of the posts today I think it is here and doing damage.
54
01/12/2020 11:41:02 18 1
bbc
I would/need see a doctor, but the hassle involved is overwhelming.
Its bad enough under normal circumstances seeing a doc, but now its as though the worlds fell to pieces, "hello you are caller number 27, do you really need to make this call"
I,m definitely not right since Covid had me, its just not gone away.
2
01/12/2020 11:09:23 4 42
bbc
Ten patients doesn't make a summer but it makes something the BBC can stuff in our faces to continue to instil irrational fear for a condition comparable to seasonal flu death numbers worldwide. Which is the view of WHO. Shame on you BBC
55
01/12/2020 11:41:28 11 0
bbc
Only a few seem to see this as instilling irrational fear, the majority will see it as understanding another aspect of covid that we will have to deal with. That covid may have longer term effects seems to knock the "it's only a cold" theory so I'm not surprised you and yours gang up about this.
56
W 6
01/12/2020 11:41:52 27 1
bbc
What might be more useful than a HYS here would be a sort of Q and A section where folks who are conducting the study, scientists or health correspondents can unpick what this all means.
85
AC
01/12/2020 12:08:04 6 0
bbc
That would be really good I agree. There is probably some really obvious stuff that we don’t know as we aren’t scientists that they could explain.
25
01/12/2020 11:24:29 17 0
bbc
I genuinely feel for you, but this appears to be more to do with lung damage that isn't readily visible through normal means. Heaven forbid that you should contract Covid, as the damage already done is likely to be exacerbated to an even greater degree.
57
01/12/2020 11:42:28 6 4
bbc
My wife had the same lung damage after pneumonia as baldeagle (she has also presented with many of the other reported 'long covid' symptoms) and her condition has baffled the medics and none have ever been able to say what is wrong.
Perhaps now with Covid seemingly being the only disease that matters, we will finally get some sort of treatment for all 'long pneumonia' sufferers too.
46
01/12/2020 11:38:20 7 9
bbc
Covid 19 will have caused more brain damage than lung damage in the long run. My brain is F%^£$D and I haven't even had covid 19.
58
01/12/2020 11:42:54 3 1
bbc
Big B, I agree , major depression hits me, usually when the government make a new rule.
6
01/12/2020 11:12:42 7 6
bbc
It sounds interesting, but a trial of ten people found eight of them who had complained of breathlessness had lung damage of some sort.

Worth further investigation and scaling up for sure, but just a tad early for any real conclusion isn't it?
59
01/12/2020 11:43:10 2 0
bbc
I agree that we don't yet know the facts, but it is worth further investigation for sure.

"8/10 of those that complained of breathlessness" is not in itself informative until we also know what proportion of people complained of continued breathlessness. i.e. how many does the 10 in 8/10 actually represent? But this warrants thorough research.
38
01/12/2020 11:36:12 20 86
bbc
Sorry but this is more Project Fear. A study of 10 people, not peer reviewed, not over a long timescale, discovers the affects are similar to Flu. Lets get vaccinated and move on. The poverty that is definitely being caused by Covid is a far greater killer, here in Cumbria Suicides were up 39% this year as business after business collapses.
60
01/12/2020 11:43:14 24 4
bbc
Not project fear, project science. It is affecting society at all levels. This article isn't denying that. Just advancing on well published evidence that covid-19 causes coagulopathy, or multiple clots, which are causing havoc around the body. The survivors will have a huge burden on the healthcare system and we have to plan for that.
Tories have never cared about poverty anyway.
76
01/12/2020 11:58:24 5 11
bbc
It' a consequence of an illness that affects the lungs, same thing happened to me when I had Pleurisy. There are countless illnesses that have a similar affect on the lungs that don't get the media coverage that Covid is at the moment. There are lots of viruses that leave people with similar symptoms to Long Covid but funily enough up until now those people have been ignored or ridiculed.
170
01/12/2020 12:47:38 6 4
bbc
"Tories have never cared about poverty anyway."
Who does, the Labour party? They hate the poor and working class.
33
01/12/2020 11:32:01 7 34
bbc
Project fear continues, read the detail and the affects are... you guessed it... exactly the same as a bad dose of flu. This is a study of 10 patients with no peer review. This is really irresponsible reporting and a waste of licence payers money, especially ironic as those most at risk now have to add paying a licence fee to their woes... shame on the BBC.
61
01/12/2020 11:44:10 8 1
bbc
It is not FEAR to be concerned. Many of us fear the irresponsible and irrelevant comments such as these gaining any sort of credibility. Getting over / past COVID requests the support of all to minimise the effects to all
110
01/12/2020 12:19:56 1 4
bbc
"It is not FEAR to be concerned"

Yes it is.
62
01/12/2020 11:46:27 41 0
bbc
The 10 patients have been specifically selected as they are reporting symptoms not detected by conventional techniques. They are not in anyway a random sample to draw conclusions about the wider disease population.
The study is about a scanning technique that appears to have utility in treating COVID - Fantastic!
350
02/12/2020 03:26:41 1 1
bbc
Then the fact this is about a technology should be highlighted, not how 10 out of 10 subjects had damaged lungs. If done right, the news would not be a a problem.
"0.1PPM in drinking water is a poison" is a bad news, "We can detect poison in concentrations of 0.1 PPM in drinking water" is a good news.
63
01/12/2020 11:46:52 19 1
bbc
The more information we can gather on Covid the better the longer term will be. It's probably here to stay, so to think we can just forget about it after Easter next year will be wrong. There's still much to learn, which hopefully will help us all get back to normal.
2
01/12/2020 11:09:23 4 42
bbc
Ten patients doesn't make a summer but it makes something the BBC can stuff in our faces to continue to instil irrational fear for a condition comparable to seasonal flu death numbers worldwide. Which is the view of WHO. Shame on you BBC
64
01/12/2020 11:48:53 3 0
bbc
If it is an irrational fear, would or will you personally move about in high risk areas like ICU’s without some sort of protection against this low risk disease, say as a hospital orderly, porter or cleaner? Possibly you also have this irrational fear.
128
01/12/2020 12:30:13 0 2
bbc
I work in a hospital, and the answer's yes. I wear a mask as little as I can get away with.
29
01/12/2020 11:25:59 7 0
bbc
Thanks - I have been aware of the risk of asymptomatic lung damage but not much is being made of it in the media. Thoughts on whether it would be cumulative if it were indeed possible to catch the virus more than once?
65
01/12/2020 11:49:00 2 0
bbc
Not sure I can answer that one yet - we're still running studies to look at that!
47
01/12/2020 11:38:28 42 15
bbc
This virus does more damage than people imagine as we are finding out but still the virus denoers and the covidiots will scream about freedoms.
66
01/12/2020 11:49:30 14 48
bbc
100's of millions have died under oppressive regimes and millions fought and died to free us from them. There is no question that surrendering freedoms is far more dangerous than this virus. History deniers screaming the propaganda fed them by the masters in whom they misplace their trust.
74
01/12/2020 11:56:39 6 1
bbc
"There is no question that surrendering freedoms is far more dangerous than this virus."... That statement is obviously incorrect as this study proves.

There is a question about whether surrendering freedoms is more dangerous than the virus, and the answer is we don't know yet. This study is the start to working out just how dangerous this virus is!
75
01/12/2020 11:57:21 16 5
bbc
What Drivel. Taking about surrendering freedoms, you are being asked to help with the pandemic.
86
AC
01/12/2020 12:09:28 16 4
bbc
Wearing a mask to stop Covid spreading isn’t surrendering any freedoms.
Prick Removed
116
01/12/2020 12:24:06 14 2
bbc
... don't forget your freedom to die a lingering death from something you could have avoided if you'd used your freedom to use your common sense
148
Me
01/12/2020 12:39:45 6 3
bbc
So have any of your anti-lockdown mates vanished into the secret police hands to wind up in a mass grave somewhere. Nope. Maybe some got fined or arrested but they still exist.

Maybe you'd prefer the American way where they have to bury the covid victims in mass graves because they haven't the resources to bury so many people a day.
178
01/12/2020 12:54:23 12 2
bbc
Your being asked to wear a mask and limit the number of people you come in to contact with; you're not being sent to a gulag.
295
01/12/2020 14:40:15 2 1
bbc
What freedoms have we surrendered? Freedom to do to the pub? Freedom to go to Benidorm? Freedom not to wear a thin piece of cloth over your face for 20 minutes in the supermarket during a pandemic?
The church tried to stop people wearing masks in the middle ages during the black death as it subverted the will of god. I often wonder how much of teh anti-mask movement is driven from the church
44
01/12/2020 11:37:30 1 27
bbc
How much funding did you get for the study? Who is paying for this?
67
01/12/2020 11:49:58 23 0
bbc
Good question - we got somewhere in the region of £20-50k, from funding agencies in the UK. We don't get personally paid by this funding, its just used for scanning patients.
337
01/12/2020 19:42:07 1 1
bbc
Fair play to you for not rising to the bait of the Trolls. Good work and id happlily donate.
68
01/12/2020 11:50:55 5 27
bbc
So the masked man Hamilton gets Covid..

Throw them away. Totally pointless.
80
01/12/2020 12:01:06 19 4
bbc
How many times do people need to be told?

The primary purpose in wearing a mask is not to prevent the wearer from contracting the disease, but to help avoid having a sufferer pass it on in their breath.

It is a secondary outcome that if so few are openly exhaling virus-laden breath, then there is less going about to be inhaled by others.
84
01/12/2020 12:07:09 7 3
bbc
Yeah, since he wears a mask every minute of the day and night and not only when he's on camera masks must be useless. I bet he washes his hands every ten minutes too when he's not driving so I'm going to stop doing that pointless exercise as well.

Thanks for your insight Paul.
It's well documented that it is aerosol spread too. Masks, unless they are full ffp3 won't prevent that route of infection if you're in the same room as someone for a couple of hours. Ventilate the places you go to protect yourself, meet outside, keep up with the research.
Removed
9
01/12/2020 11:15:29 123 15
bbc
We live in an information age, yet disinformation and conspiracy theory seem to be outweighing the truth.

Every single Covid denier should volunteer themselves for either part in the studies, or to help out in hospitals treating Covid patients. After all, they won't need to bother with pesky PPE and if they're volunteering to be infected, so as to allow study, it's only a cold, after all.
70
01/12/2020 11:47:37 16 106
bbc
I would happily volunteer to be infected today if it meant I could then get on with my life instead of having my civil liberties suppressed
92
01/12/2020 12:13:12 33 7
bbc
Having your civil liberties suppressed ??????
118
01/12/2020 12:24:46 8 8
bbc
I've already had it and recovered, and I work in a hospital. I know I have nothing to fear other tan not being able to taste properly for a while and having a cough. Unless I'm now immune, in which case nothing at all.
119
Me
01/12/2020 12:25:06 13 4
bbc
And what if you were one of the unlucky ones who got a stroke or damaged lungs so your quality of life got suppressed is that worth the minor inconvenience of having to not party for a year.

One job i had with commuting took most of my waking time for over a year, not much i could do till recession ended. But at least i wasn't in a position to put others at risk for my own enjoyment.
121
01/12/2020 12:26:46 32 7
bbc
And what happens if you’re one of those who gets the virus, but is asymptomatic? What about the civil liberties of those people you then unwittingly infect?
123
01/12/2020 12:28:12 32 5
bbc
Your civil liberties? Meaning what exactly? The requirement to wear some cloth over your mouth and nose, and minimised numbers of people you interact with until we have a way to attack this virus? It’s the civil liberties of all that this is about. Civil liberties being a right to live. Live with some restrictions for some time, yes, but to live, and then live without the restrictions later.
140
01/12/2020 12:36:35 6 3
bbc
Suppressed? Have this for free...

Oppress usually applies to the mistreatment of a person or group by a more powerful one. Repress usually applies to emotions or urges, or refers to the violent quelling of political movements. Suppress usually applies to information.

You’re more likely oppressed or repressed.
164
01/12/2020 12:46:48 7 3
bbc
Well I was with you until you started whining about civil liberties not ensuring that thousands don't die needlessly. But no, it's all about you.
220
Ed
01/12/2020 13:27:18 3 2
bbc
It's your civil liberty to die not to kill!!!
264
01/12/2020 14:03:02 3 0
bbc
You mean your civil liberty to risk infecting other people?
282
01/12/2020 14:29:25 3 0
bbc
What liberties are you missing? I dont think anyone has a "right to go to the pub"?
310
01/12/2020 15:24:47 1 0
bbc
You don't seem to realise the point here. If you get the virus, intentionally or otherwise, you may find that you can't get on with your life.

I had the virus before any community testing and now 10 months on my breathing is nearly normal - on a good day! I am still unable to live a day out of bed of more than 12 hrs due to fatigue, as they term it, total exhaustion as I call it.
326
01/12/2020 16:27:57 2 0
bbc
OxOxOx maybe move to China and then you'd know what having your civil liberties suppressed would mean. 603 deaths today, but you'd rather go out!
332
01/12/2020 19:22:38 2 0
bbc
How can folk upvote this? I have now lost 3 friends to this mild flu. One was in her 40's with no underlying illness. To this day I am shocked at the sheer stupidity of some people.
Here come the comments section PhD holders, brace yourself!!
71
01/12/2020 11:51:20 5 27
bbc
An unnecessary flippant remark.
87
VF
01/12/2020 12:09:46 23 6
bbc
Accurate though!
Very accurate though. Doesn't matter if you are an expert, somebody's Facebook PhD will trump any actual knowledge. (use of the word trump completely intended)
27
01/12/2020 11:23:50 27 7
bbc
This is extremely important - and I hope raises more awareness of the reality and dangers of “long covid” - something that seems to affect younger people most (I.e students getting wrecked in the pub)
72
01/12/2020 11:52:39 11 31
bbc
Flu can also cause lung damage. Funny how nobody ever thought that was extremely important.

We have lost all perspective.
99
01/12/2020 12:15:50 7 0
bbc
And here you are again, spewing your rubbish.
159
01/12/2020 12:44:41 7 0
bbc
The perspective that Covid is vastly more infective and will cause many more issues than flu?
219
01/12/2020 13:01:59 5 0
bbc
We did though, billions have been poured in to flu vaccine, treatment and research for over 150 years.
73
01/12/2020 11:54:54 6 1
bbc
Covid has so many similarities to the symptoms of sarcoidosis. I wonder if this test has been used to identify lung issues in sarcoidosis patients who sometimes have breathlessness without visible issues in lungs.
66
01/12/2020 11:49:30 14 48
bbc
100's of millions have died under oppressive regimes and millions fought and died to free us from them. There is no question that surrendering freedoms is far more dangerous than this virus. History deniers screaming the propaganda fed them by the masters in whom they misplace their trust.
74
01/12/2020 11:56:39 6 1
bbc
"There is no question that surrendering freedoms is far more dangerous than this virus."... That statement is obviously incorrect as this study proves.

There is a question about whether surrendering freedoms is more dangerous than the virus, and the answer is we don't know yet. This study is the start to working out just how dangerous this virus is!
189
01/12/2020 13:01:22 1 6
bbc
So what you are saying is there is currently no evidence that COVID is anywhere near as dangerous as surrendering our freedoms? Don't you think the evidence should come first before we give them up? 'Do as I say... just in case' is the argument that religions have made for a millennia to control people. No.
66
01/12/2020 11:49:30 14 48
bbc
100's of millions have died under oppressive regimes and millions fought and died to free us from them. There is no question that surrendering freedoms is far more dangerous than this virus. History deniers screaming the propaganda fed them by the masters in whom they misplace their trust.
75
01/12/2020 11:57:21 16 5
bbc
What Drivel. Taking about surrendering freedoms, you are being asked to help with the pandemic.
98
01/12/2020 12:15:43 2 1
bbc
"you are being asked to help with the pandemic."

It's bad enough as it is, I have no intention of helping it.
163
01/12/2020 12:45:53 2 6
bbc
MY individual freedom to choose who I can see, where I can go, what I can do, what I must wear and even if I can do business, have all been removed. Are you a reality denier?
Not project fear, project science. It is affecting society at all levels. This article isn't denying that. Just advancing on well published evidence that covid-19 causes coagulopathy, or multiple clots, which are causing havoc around the body. The survivors will have a huge burden on the healthcare system and we have to plan for that.
Tories have never cared about poverty anyway.
76
01/12/2020 11:58:24 5 11
bbc
It' a consequence of an illness that affects the lungs, same thing happened to me when I had Pleurisy. There are countless illnesses that have a similar affect on the lungs that don't get the media coverage that Covid is at the moment. There are lots of viruses that leave people with similar symptoms to Long Covid but funily enough up until now those people have been ignored or ridiculed.
112
01/12/2020 12:21:55 2 5
bbc
Nice of people to downvote this comment, calling for more consideration of people with other illnesses.
Certainly those who suffer with relatively rarer conditions DO get less attention and research. There are groups who advocate for rare diseases, because together they are actually common and deserve attention too!
77
01/12/2020 12:00:04 2 7
bbc
OK guys, so how many Lambert and Butlers are you going to get through whilst waiting on the phone to get your lung clinic appointment ? with our bodies full of coagulations from asymptomatic Covid, what's the answer ? I know - get out more.
78
01/12/2020 12:00:30 14 4
bbc
The Medical Journal's were all reporting back in July that otherwise healthy individuals were exhibiting heart muscle damage and that Internal organ damage was occurring even in those with asymptomatic infection. It doesn't need to have a kill rate of 90% to be dangerous this virus has a potential to cause damage resulting in susceptibility to other conditions in the medium and long term
91
01/12/2020 12:13:01 2 18
bbc
" this virus has a potential to cause damage resulting in susceptibility to other conditions in the medium and long term"

I have the potential to impregnate several women every day.

That doens't actually happen, though.
46
01/12/2020 11:38:20 7 9
bbc
Covid 19 will have caused more brain damage than lung damage in the long run. My brain is F%^£$D and I haven't even had covid 19.
79
01/12/2020 12:00:57 1 0
bbc
Its good you have not had it (yet).
68
01/12/2020 11:50:55 5 27
bbc
So the masked man Hamilton gets Covid..

Throw them away. Totally pointless.
80
01/12/2020 12:01:06 19 4
bbc
How many times do people need to be told?

The primary purpose in wearing a mask is not to prevent the wearer from contracting the disease, but to help avoid having a sufferer pass it on in their breath.

It is a secondary outcome that if so few are openly exhaling virus-laden breath, then there is less going about to be inhaled by others.
100
01/12/2020 12:16:41 1 1
bbc
All this palaver about wearing masks. It's like being told you have to wear a tie at work - such a fuss over a useless piece of cloth.
111
01/12/2020 12:20:21 3 0
bbc
... you're wasting your time ... their minds are closed ... they don't want to hear anything that diverges from their own ill-informed opinion
81
01/12/2020 12:03:02 32 4
bbc
Can any of these deniers/conspiracy theorists give a reasonable estimate of how many are involved globally in this alleged grand charade & what the ultimate purpose is? And, when most of our world leaders fail to cooperate on anything else from fish to nuclear arsenals, how are they finding common ground for a Covid conspiracy without giving the game away?
135
01/12/2020 12:35:06 14 1
bbc
The problem with all of these conspiracies is that they become so convoluted that there would have to be thousands of people involved. It would be impossible to keep them all quiet. Of course we must assume that all of the scientists involved have been 'paid off'. Sometimes the most obvious answer is the correct answer...
165
01/12/2020 12:47:04 5 0
bbc
Sorry too busy taking halucinagenic drugs to tell you whos taking part in the global conspiracy. :)
218
01/12/2020 13:26:29 2 4
bbc
No global conspiracy... it is just human nature at play and history repeating itself.

People attracted to positions of power (e.g. politicians and the police) like power. They want as much of it as they can get. And the more they are allowed to take it, the more it is abused. We are being told to surrender freedoms 'for the greater good' but no good ever comes from it.
82
01/12/2020 12:03:32 6 6
bbc
People taking about freedoms and world wars, are way over the top. You cry babies would not have been much help on the Normandy beaches !
90
01/12/2020 12:11:59 9 5
bbc
You realise that freedom was the reason people were fighting in Normandy to start with, right?
36
01/12/2020 11:35:02 6 9
bbc
If Prof. Gleeson discovered Covid lung damage in 8 out of 10 patients, how does Dr Hayles estimate that up to just 10% of those who have had Covid have some form of lung damage?

I'm no mathematician, but that doesn't quite work for me.
83
01/12/2020 12:03:54 4 2
bbc
Clearly not a mathematician.

Prof. Gleeson tested 10 people of whom 8 "had persistent shortness of breath and tiredness 3 months after being ill with coronavirus".
Dr. Hayles believes that "up to 10% of those who have had Covid-19 might have some form of lung damage which is leading to prolonged symptoms".

Different sets of people
107
01/12/2020 12:18:53 0 3
bbc
I'm in a room with ten people who work in a hospital. Using my incredibly accurate scietific sample, I can estimate that 80% of people worldwide work in a hospital.

This isn't even a science story. It's just an anecdote about ten people who have had covid.
68
01/12/2020 11:50:55 5 27
bbc
So the masked man Hamilton gets Covid..

Throw them away. Totally pointless.
84
01/12/2020 12:07:09 7 3
bbc
Yeah, since he wears a mask every minute of the day and night and not only when he's on camera masks must be useless. I bet he washes his hands every ten minutes too when he's not driving so I'm going to stop doing that pointless exercise as well.

Thanks for your insight Paul.
94
01/12/2020 12:14:14 1 4
bbc
Odd that he wears a mask, though, as I would think that driving a car at 200 miles an hour is more risky than catching a nasty cold.
56
W 6
01/12/2020 11:41:52 27 1
bbc
What might be more useful than a HYS here would be a sort of Q and A section where folks who are conducting the study, scientists or health correspondents can unpick what this all means.
85
AC
01/12/2020 12:08:04 6 0
bbc
That would be really good I agree. There is probably some really obvious stuff that we don’t know as we aren’t scientists that they could explain.
66
01/12/2020 11:49:30 14 48
bbc
100's of millions have died under oppressive regimes and millions fought and died to free us from them. There is no question that surrendering freedoms is far more dangerous than this virus. History deniers screaming the propaganda fed them by the masters in whom they misplace their trust.
86
AC
01/12/2020 12:09:28 16 4
bbc
Wearing a mask to stop Covid spreading isn’t surrendering any freedoms.
103
01/12/2020 12:17:06 3 15
bbc
Yes it is. It's a surrender of your freedom to choose what to wear, and it's a surrender of your freedom of expression (you use your face to express yourseelf, not just your voice). It's also an infringement of the right to a basic level of comfort.
160
01/12/2020 12:44:44 2 6
bbc
Wearing masks doesn't help and even the WHO dismissed it as a tactic for years.
71
01/12/2020 11:51:20 5 27
bbc
An unnecessary flippant remark.
87
VF
01/12/2020 12:09:46 23 6
bbc
Accurate though!
88
01/12/2020 12:09:57 3 7
bbc
A study of 10 patients

Just lets make sure we have perspective - this is interesting and worth pursuing but lets not get carried away

Dr Sam Walker uses the word "could" - when really it might be more appropriate to say "would be imaginative speculation to suggest"

Being optimistic is part of being human - recognise this and look at things more critically BBC journalists
10 patients with this specific scan. Already multiple studies confirming coagulopathy in lungs and multiple other organs. Keep up with the research. They probably should have made that clear in the article.
89
01/12/2020 12:10:45 4 9
bbc
"Lung damage 'identified' in study"

... with a sample size of ten. And no before-and-after comparison, so no indication as to whether covid cause the damage or if it was pre-existing.
Multiple studies on pubmed confirming coagulopathy in lung specimens of deceased. Have a look on pubmed.
82
01/12/2020 12:03:32 6 6
bbc
People taking about freedoms and world wars, are way over the top. You cry babies would not have been much help on the Normandy beaches !
90
01/12/2020 12:11:59 9 5
bbc
You realise that freedom was the reason people were fighting in Normandy to start with, right?
101
01/12/2020 12:16:45 6 1
bbc
... yes, but not to have those freedoms taken advantage of by woke, snowflake softies!
104
01/12/2020 12:17:56 6 2
bbc
Yes I do, so can people stop talking about world wars and freedoms when we are trying to stop health problems and deaths from a virus we are trying to get under control...…….we will need to give up some freedoms for a short time to help, stop moaning, right !
78
01/12/2020 12:00:30 14 4
bbc
The Medical Journal's were all reporting back in July that otherwise healthy individuals were exhibiting heart muscle damage and that Internal organ damage was occurring even in those with asymptomatic infection. It doesn't need to have a kill rate of 90% to be dangerous this virus has a potential to cause damage resulting in susceptibility to other conditions in the medium and long term
91
01/12/2020 12:13:01 2 18
bbc
" this virus has a potential to cause damage resulting in susceptibility to other conditions in the medium and long term"

I have the potential to impregnate several women every day.

That doens't actually happen, though.
105
01/12/2020 12:17:58 11 0
bbc
... perhaps you're doing it wrong!
141
01/12/2020 12:36:45 2 0
bbc
Talking about probabilities.
179
01/12/2020 12:55:33 6 0
bbc
"I have the potential to impregnate several women every day.

That doens't actually happen, though."

Cant think why that might be!

I would recommend thinking your analogies through a bit more.
70
01/12/2020 11:47:37 16 106
bbc
I would happily volunteer to be infected today if it meant I could then get on with my life instead of having my civil liberties suppressed
92
01/12/2020 12:13:12 33 7
bbc
Having your civil liberties suppressed ??????
151
01/12/2020 12:41:04 3 9
bbc
Yes. The government now tell us who we can see, where we can go, what we can do and what we must wear. Didn't you notice?
93
01/12/2020 12:13:39 4 2
bbc
is that an advert for some more funding ?

anyway how are the elite athletes doing after contracting covid ?
84
01/12/2020 12:07:09 7 3
bbc
Yeah, since he wears a mask every minute of the day and night and not only when he's on camera masks must be useless. I bet he washes his hands every ten minutes too when he's not driving so I'm going to stop doing that pointless exercise as well.

Thanks for your insight Paul.
94
01/12/2020 12:14:14 1 4
bbc
Odd that he wears a mask, though, as I would think that driving a car at 200 miles an hour is more risky than catching a nasty cold.
155
01/12/2020 12:42:57 0 0
bbc
He doesn't drive drunk though.
Which is about as smart as not wearing a mask.
52
01/12/2020 11:39:55 14 107
bbc
This is more Project Fear... no one has ever said you get "Long Flu" but this short term study of 10 people which isn't peer reviewed showed Covid has the same affect as Flu.
95
01/12/2020 12:14:14 10 3
bbc
Having a large sample in this instance means nothing.... if you read the article this new testing technique was applied to 10 people who were having breathing problems 3 MONTHS after having COVID and traditional scans showed no issues. It is pointless applying it to everyone who had covid as it is looking at a specific issue related to the disease that may not effect everyone.
96
01/12/2020 12:14:39 8 0
bbc
... so much for 99% of people recover!
173
01/12/2020 12:51:45 1 3
bbc
errr, 10 people, maths not your strong point right?
66
01/12/2020 11:49:30 14 48
bbc
100's of millions have died under oppressive regimes and millions fought and died to free us from them. There is no question that surrendering freedoms is far more dangerous than this virus. History deniers screaming the propaganda fed them by the masters in whom they misplace their trust.
Prick Removed
75
01/12/2020 11:57:21 16 5
bbc
What Drivel. Taking about surrendering freedoms, you are being asked to help with the pandemic.
98
01/12/2020 12:15:43 2 1
bbc
"you are being asked to help with the pandemic."

It's bad enough as it is, I have no intention of helping it.
72
01/12/2020 11:52:39 11 31
bbc
Flu can also cause lung damage. Funny how nobody ever thought that was extremely important.

We have lost all perspective.
99
01/12/2020 12:15:50 7 0
bbc
And here you are again, spewing your rubbish.
213
01/12/2020 13:16:15 2 3
bbc
That is not a counter argument.

What bit of my statement do you think is 'rubbish'? Do you deny the flu can cause lung damage... a quick Google search will tell you it does. Do you deny that you and others, who are suddenly so concerned about lung damage caused by COVID, had never been concerned about the damage done by flu?
80
01/12/2020 12:01:06 19 4
bbc
How many times do people need to be told?

The primary purpose in wearing a mask is not to prevent the wearer from contracting the disease, but to help avoid having a sufferer pass it on in their breath.

It is a secondary outcome that if so few are openly exhaling virus-laden breath, then there is less going about to be inhaled by others.
100
01/12/2020 12:16:41 1 1
bbc
All this palaver about wearing masks. It's like being told you have to wear a tie at work - such a fuss over a useless piece of cloth.