Amateur players face 'seismic' change as Britain switches to new handicap system
02/11/2020 | sport | golf | 596
Golf's new World Handicap System is being introduced on Monday and there has already been criticism of it, writes Iain Carter.
1
02/11/2020 06:27:33 36 17
bbc
Golf doing what golf does best - complicated!
34
02/11/2020 08:05:29 44 8
bbc
Not at all. In fact it's fantastically simplified now. Eg, I can take my handicap index of 4.7 anywhere in the world and know it will be adjusted to my ability. So I'll be off 6 at my club from the back tees, and about 13 at Augusta from their championship tees. Not that I'll ever play there mind!
2
02/11/2020 06:46:14 42 11
bbc
The foundation of the new system is a great idea. The course where I used to be a member is short and relatively easy. My best handicap was ten, but no way could I beat a Muirfield ten handicapper in a tie. This new system levels the playing field
3
02/11/2020 06:58:27 44 7
bbc
That’s why we had a sss! If Muirfeilds sss was 76(+4) then you would have to shoot 14 over to match your handicap! It wasn’t hard to work out and worked great.
It meant handicaps could be compared to one another!!
6
02/11/2020 07:01:31 5 1
bbc
Wasn’t that the point of the standard scratch of a course? Your course should have had a SS under par and Muirfield over par.
87
02/11/2020 09:35:48 3 2
bbc
Just to say Virgil the 10 handicapper from Muirfield wouldn’t be shooting near 10 much due to the sss being much higher there! That’s why your game against them would be competitive!
We’ve just fallen in line with other parts of the world but in no way would I say it’s better!
101
02/11/2020 09:54:02 1 3
bbc
Makes the point well that the WHS system is so complicated that there are a lot of misunderstandings like this one.

The difference in difficulty between Muirfield to your local pitch and putt was taken account of in the CONGU system with the SSS Standard Scratch Score as others have pointed out.

This is more or less mimicked in WHS by the Course Rating.
549
03/11/2020 09:07:04 0 0
bbc
If you had 10 hcap at your club and went to Muirfield to play him in a match you might have 13. The Muirfiled opponent would have 10, so of course it's fairer.
SSS would have only applied to strokeplay.
2
02/11/2020 06:46:14 42 11
bbc
The foundation of the new system is a great idea. The course where I used to be a member is short and relatively easy. My best handicap was ten, but no way could I beat a Muirfield ten handicapper in a tie. This new system levels the playing field
3
02/11/2020 06:58:27 44 7
bbc
That’s why we had a sss! If Muirfeilds sss was 76(+4) then you would have to shoot 14 over to match your handicap! It wasn’t hard to work out and worked great.
It meant handicaps could be compared to one another!!
469
02/11/2020 19:05:26 1 0
bbc
But courses like Muirfield are (generally) *even* harder for high handicappers than scratch players; the slope tries to recognise this too. So everyone gets a help from the higher SSS; then high handicappers get a further help from the slope rating.
4
02/11/2020 06:59:13 10 4
bbc
A great system long overdue. Unfortunately it is starting to fail already in its main objectives. Different countries are applying varying rules. I live in Spain and the way the Spanish Federation is setting rules is very restrictive compared to what is advertised by England Golf. Obviously the hymn sheet loses a lot in translation.
111
02/11/2020 10:17:34 2 0
bbc
Correct! the USGA are taking into account course rating and par when calculating course handicap.... but England Golf aren't!!
280
02/11/2020 14:14:53 1 0
bbc
The Spanish Federation has ruled only one 'Out of Competition' card/month can be submitted. This goes against the ethos of the WHS. This is a particular problem in Spain as few courses run in the same way as UK courses. The majority of comps are infrequent 'pay and play' and are open to all. Maybe I misunderstood?
5
02/11/2020 07:00:36 28 11
bbc
WHS is less complicated than the 5 tiers for Covid in Scotland.
2
02/11/2020 06:46:14 42 11
bbc
The foundation of the new system is a great idea. The course where I used to be a member is short and relatively easy. My best handicap was ten, but no way could I beat a Muirfield ten handicapper in a tie. This new system levels the playing field
6
02/11/2020 07:01:31 5 1
bbc
Wasn’t that the point of the standard scratch of a course? Your course should have had a SS under par and Muirfield over par.
7
02/11/2020 07:04:16 10 11
bbc
There is no doubt the new handicap system is an absolute shambles and the complications will drive people away from competitive golf.
Golf has more pressing problems such as being viewed as an unwelcoming sport, a sport that takes too long to play, and stuck in a bygone era.

Sort these problems first.
R&A are you listening?!
8
fp1
02/11/2020 07:05:20 6 5
bbc
This is not making golf more accessible, not that most of the players necessarily want it to be.
9
02/11/2020 07:07:21 6 4
bbc
How long after they have all this data before it’s hacked?
571
03/11/2020 13:27:04 0 0
bbc
you only provide email, date of birth and gender. You're not giving them the keys to your house, alarm code and bank account info
10
02/11/2020 07:12:14 23 1
bbc
Looking forward to seeing it in operation when I play next weekend - oh, hang on ....
11
02/11/2020 07:14:53 4 6
bbc
My concern is that the low handicap layers who have reached say plus one or more might think they are good enough to turn pro when they are miles away from being that good. Our course is 6400 par 70 but slope of 1.28 so you can become a plus golfer and not shoot below par. That’s ridiculous! Anyone who plays their own course which is this short and is a plus golfer should be 3/4 under regularly.
12
02/11/2020 07:21:40 5 0
bbc
Surely any player that is that good would be playing quite a few other courses in competitive golf?. Under the new system those rounds will count toward their Handicap Index and give them a true reflection of their ability.
15
02/11/2020 07:25:09 4 0
bbc
I agree. I’m a 2 handicapper but under WHS it had me off +1.4. I’m at 12 shots shy than a PGA tour pro. Any elite amateur wanting to turn pro needs to be off +6 and then it’ll take several years to improve before making a living as a pro.
11
02/11/2020 07:14:53 4 6
bbc
My concern is that the low handicap layers who have reached say plus one or more might think they are good enough to turn pro when they are miles away from being that good. Our course is 6400 par 70 but slope of 1.28 so you can become a plus golfer and not shoot below par. That’s ridiculous! Anyone who plays their own course which is this short and is a plus golfer should be 3/4 under regularly.
12
02/11/2020 07:21:40 5 0
bbc
Surely any player that is that good would be playing quite a few other courses in competitive golf?. Under the new system those rounds will count toward their Handicap Index and give them a true reflection of their ability.
148
02/11/2020 11:26:40 0 1
bbc
No as they don’t play enough away from home. Back in the day you had to get 3 out 12 away from home to get that handicap when 4 or less when there was no such thing as CSS. SCRATCH meant they could go round in level regularly. Plus handicaps have been devalued and more so through this system
13
02/11/2020 07:21:57 12 2
bbc
My question that a lot of players will be asking ‘ How will it stop the bandits winning competitions? ‘
55
02/11/2020 08:31:29 8 2
bbc
It already does. It gives people silly handicaps and the honest players out there get shafted with a handicap they can't play to for 5 years.
496
02/11/2020 19:51:14 1 0
bbc
Bandits will still win competitions but they are only cheating themselves.I am a 29 hcp and do play some good shots but like most high hcp players my bad shots involves reloading,stroke and distance penalties. I have and will never duff a shot/ hole to protect my embarrassing high hcp
14
02/11/2020 07:23:27 13 11
bbc
You need a degree in applied mathematics to understand the new hcap system, you really couldn’t make it up. We invented the game but have to follow cap in hand to the Americans!
141
02/11/2020 11:15:50 4 0
bbc
A degree in applied maths from Trump University perhaps, or some pretty straightforward arithmetic for year three kids.
11
02/11/2020 07:14:53 4 6
bbc
My concern is that the low handicap layers who have reached say plus one or more might think they are good enough to turn pro when they are miles away from being that good. Our course is 6400 par 70 but slope of 1.28 so you can become a plus golfer and not shoot below par. That’s ridiculous! Anyone who plays their own course which is this short and is a plus golfer should be 3/4 under regularly.
15
02/11/2020 07:25:09 4 0
bbc
I agree. I’m a 2 handicapper but under WHS it had me off +1.4. I’m at 12 shots shy than a PGA tour pro. Any elite amateur wanting to turn pro needs to be off +6 and then it’ll take several years to improve before making a living as a pro.
16
02/11/2020 07:27:43 2 1
bbc
I suspect there might be plenty of unhappy golfers...apart from being unable to play due to lockdown. My handicap index is 10.6, down from yesterdays handicap of 16,and this was apparently calculated solely because I had an exceptionally good round in July. I would add that it is unlikely I could do the same again more than once in a blue moon.
53
02/11/2020 08:30:07 2 0
bbc
One of the reasons I've always baulked at getting a handicap and playing in comps. A lad I know joined a club recently and hasnt broken 115 on a par 72 and was given a handicap of 18. What incentive is there and how demoralising. All to stop you winning a crappy trophy once in a blue moon. No wonder golf's in decline
59
02/11/2020 08:42:08 2 0
bbc
A misunderstanding of what a handicap is for. Handicaps are to indicate what you are capable of playing too. Not what you will shoot every time you play. So clearly you are capable of playing off an handicap of 11.
65
02/11/2020 08:51:46 2 0
bbc
But you're comparing apples and oranges. Your handicap index is not the same thing as your 'old' handicap. You've got to apply that index to a given course, to be able to calculate your playing handicap on that course.

Anyway, an exceptionally good round (assuming your card was submitted) would always have cut your handicap.
17
02/11/2020 07:29:36 4 7
bbc
It is a data grab. With funding to amateur sport cut, England Golf needs the cash it will get from selling data to assert and expand.
WHI is also too complex and will deter people from taking up the game. For a sport that once claimed two million participants, providing a valid handicap for only 640,000 club members isn’t clever.
18
02/11/2020 07:29:49 5 1
bbc
England Golf need to get the new system works asap. Gone live - data not up-to-date, which is key. Calculating against wrong tees, which is key, some players haven't got a handicap index. And all they say is we are updating throughout the day. What a mess!
112
02/11/2020 10:18:06 2 1
bbc
Logged in this morning and all of my 2020 scores are marked as pending, so my handicap is based on 2019 performance. Farce.
190
02/11/2020 12:00:47 0 0
bbc
Going live after stating publicly that the system doesn't work properly ("we expect teething problems") ? What planet do these people inhabit ?
19
02/11/2020 07:32:13 5 6
bbc
In door gym's can stay open but being outside and to meters apart playing golf is not allowed Come on Boris really.
25
02/11/2020 07:49:39 6 0
bbc
I think you will find indoor gym's have to close as well.
20
02/11/2020 07:34:24 3 2
bbc
In theory great idea but the app is apparently far from straightforward, it's difficult to work your own handicap with all the possible changes. There will be uproar if the teething problems are not overcome swiftly. I await with interest.
21
02/11/2020 07:35:47 2 7
bbc
On a brighter note, it looks like the Open is down the tubes for July.
41
02/11/2020 08:13:51 1 0
bbc
Eh?
22
02/11/2020 07:42:11 6 4
bbc
So this new handicap system is supposed to be simpler and fairer. It does none of those things. It is unnecessarily complex. The course assessments are wrong. My club has 2 courses, one of championship standard. The front tees of the easier course is rated MORE difficult than the back tees of the championship course. Now tell me how that makes sense. Attract more players with this ? No chance
49
02/11/2020 08:21:26 4 1
bbc
My old course had a par of 69 from the front and 72 from the back. It was much more difficult from the front because 3 par 4s of 470 yards became easy par 5s from the back. So par from the front tees was way more difficult and the slope index correctly identifies that.
23
02/11/2020 07:43:04 1 4
bbc
Good summary Ian. People generally struggle with change so we must be patient and persistent in helping players to make it work for them. It’s not that hard!
24
02/11/2020 07:48:44 70 9
bbc
Why has the petition to keep courses open been closed? It received over a quarter of a million signatures in less than a day. I can't find any reason for it to have closed.
107
02/11/2020 10:06:48 29 5
bbc
Because it was started on May 1st and they have a 6 month expiry
187
02/11/2020 11:54:30 14 1
bbc
I agree. The government says 1 on 1 outside. So why don't we just say two balls and leave the courses open and also it let's people get some exercise and fresh air.
19
02/11/2020 07:32:13 5 6
bbc
In door gym's can stay open but being outside and to meters apart playing golf is not allowed Come on Boris really.
25
02/11/2020 07:49:39 6 0
bbc
I think you will find indoor gym's have to close as well.
My handicaps gone down again. The wife hasn’t Removed
27
02/11/2020 07:50:55 120 12
bbc
I,m not a golfer , but closing it down certainly seems silly. I am assuming they have done everything they can, just like pubs, hairdressers etc yet the government pick on them. Places that havent done AS much like some workplaces, get off scot free.
schools & unis..I see pics of my grandson surrounded by many , a mates daughter at uni is partying with 12 in her room area everyday.
Crazy!
115
02/11/2020 10:29:16 25 7
bbc
Not all member clubs abide by the rule or the spirit of keeping Covid safe. My club, Haydock Park, decided to allow the removal of flags, the only club to do so. But the system of sanitising pre and post removing, failed dangerously. Club Manager has won the award for overusing ‘substantial’ in the past 2 weeks and invited the general public in for a free pint with your substantial burger.
167
02/11/2020 11:36:03 14 2
bbc
Where are we at least of contracting corona virus ? When socially distanced. Is it easier to achieve social distancing indoor s or outdoors ? Outdoors. Where is golf played ? Last time I looked, outdoors. Do golfers have a reputation for mass rave parties or mature sensible behaviour ? The latter. Where is the problem ? The arbitrary nature of so many restrictions may well make them unworkable.
274
02/11/2020 14:04:48 13 2
bbc
I don't play but would suggest that largely it was one of the safer things you could do. i bet the track and trace % form playing golf is miniscule compared to universities and secondary schools. Seems to be a very select government focus, not based on science. :(
380
02/11/2020 16:14:16 10 0
bbc
Our club installed those cup lifters so you don't touch the flag at all and the lifting is done with your putter head. Apart from that there is zero contact in golf and it should be permitted to stay open.
522
02/11/2020 21:52:33 2 0
bbc
Yes, no logic to this whatsoever, But then again, just what one would expect from Bunter and his weird little alien puppeteer.
28
02/11/2020 07:58:37 2 3
bbc
I've been golfing with societies and clubs in Spain for ten years. And all of this time I've had a Spanish National Handicap moderated by the "slope" for each course. The only thing "new" about this handicapping is that the UK has finally decided to join the rest of Europe* and implement it. Welcome to the 21st Century.

*Anyone see the irony?
29
JD
02/11/2020 07:59:48 23 5
bbc
Part of the rationale seems to be that it's trying to level up differences in handicap systems internationally. Regardless of covid, I'm not usually planning an international schedule of golf every year sadly to warrant this new system?? OK, maybe a trip abroad with some mates to play a round or two but not in a formal 'competition'? We're not Pros?
50
02/11/2020 08:24:28 34 4
bbc
It is also to level up differences between courses in Britain which can vary greatly in difficulty. For example, a ten handicap player at Carnoustie is probably a better player than a ten handicap player at a lot of other courses
30
02/11/2020 08:00:39 3 3
bbc
It's change and no one likes change,, give it time it will sort it's self out. Players should note like the old system you can assess your handicap any time you play like the old supplementary scores.
37
02/11/2020 08:07:56 0 2
bbc
My own situation is worrying, I have had a terrible season, my handicap has gone up to 18, with the data going over my new handicap is 21:4 apply the slope and my playing handicap on my home course is now 23 with us now going to winter golf I can't change that till April 2021.
31
02/11/2020 08:03:08 9 4
bbc
My wife and I dont want to be members of any golf club but play wherever reading this article we can no longer maintain a handicap (use to have society handicaps) as it clearly says to get a handicap you need to be a club member if that is so , then most courses will not allow us to play is that the intention or is the article wrong ?
35
02/11/2020 08:06:31 8 2
bbc
You can pay and play at almost all courses
36
02/11/2020 08:07:17 6 3
bbc
Whats the point in having a handicap if you're not a member anywhere?
39
02/11/2020 08:12:06 3 12
bbc
You might also want to try using punctuation next time you post a comment!
43
02/11/2020 08:15:33 5 0
bbc
I don't think you will have a problem at most clubs. I am a club member, but do not recall ever being asked for my handicap certificate when booking to play at other courses.
46
02/11/2020 08:18:17 7 0
bbc
I think you've drawn a false conclusion, Neil. I didn't notice anything that said that you wouldn't be allowed to play; in these straitened times, I can't imagine any club would be turning away more players than they might have done before! It's simply that you won't be able to get an official handicap. But if you're only playing recreational golf, not competitions, is that a problem?
52
02/11/2020 08:28:56 4 0
bbc
Neil, you have never been allowed to have an 'officially recognised handicap' endorsed by England Golf unless you are a member of a Club and by default pay your affiliation fees to your county and England Golf. So for you my friend no difference.
293
02/11/2020 14:30:37 2 0
bbc
Most courses do not check that you actually have a valid handicap. If you pay your green fees you are good to play.
478
02/11/2020 19:19:55 1 0
bbc
I don't understand why you would need one? If you don't play in official handicap competitions (you don't have a handicap) then you and your friends can run any society handicap you like. It only affects your society so you can do whatever you like.
32
02/11/2020 08:05:00 2 9
bbc
I am going to have to Google the word seismic before I comment further. Never heard of it before.
61
02/11/2020 08:43:42 1 1
bbc
Enormous proportions , tremors and earthquakes sensations ....

Just like how you trundle around the course with your bunker shots and the Thunder drives off the Tee. ??

Mixed reviews on the new format so in the long term can it assist in the long run .
33
02/11/2020 08:05:16 2 3
bbc
I think the new WHS handicap scheme is a change for the better... BUT the implementation has been woeful. It's supposed to be live today but after plenty of warnings, the data is still wrong (incorrect tees, missing scores). The GB&I Golf Unions have tried to wrest control from the likes of Intelligent Golf and appear to have made a right dog's breakfast of the project...
1
02/11/2020 06:27:33 36 17
bbc
Golf doing what golf does best - complicated!
34
02/11/2020 08:05:29 44 8
bbc
Not at all. In fact it's fantastically simplified now. Eg, I can take my handicap index of 4.7 anywhere in the world and know it will be adjusted to my ability. So I'll be off 6 at my club from the back tees, and about 13 at Augusta from their championship tees. Not that I'll ever play there mind!
88
02/11/2020 09:39:23 2 4
bbc
And all you had to do before was try and aim to beat the SSS which was the par score for your handicap making your handicap relevant against everyone.
I’m not saying the new systems rubbish but ours definitely wasn’t broke either! We’ve just fallen in line with others!
124
02/11/2020 10:38:07 0 0
bbc
So how does one know what their handicap is course to course?
278
02/11/2020 14:09:44 0 1
bbc
It’s a nonsense. I’m scratch and for some reason I’m scratch where ever I go doesn’t matter how hard the course is!
404
02/11/2020 17:05:13 0 0
bbc
That’s nothing to do with the way your handicap is calculated , your HC can be adjusted for different courses because they have different slope rating
524
02/11/2020 22:10:32 0 0
bbc
I wish my HI was 4.7 - no chance
535
02/11/2020 23:29:04 0 0
bbc
Bullshitter
553
03/11/2020 09:26:05 0 0
bbc
If you know the right people to get you on the course you won't be off 13 the Augusta course rating is 74.9 and the slope 135
589
03/11/2020 20:35:32 0 0
bbc
Under Championship conditions around Augusta, you'd need a lot more shots than 13 to hit par, I'm guessing another 20 lol. But I get what you're saying and totally agree with you
31
02/11/2020 08:03:08 9 4
bbc
My wife and I dont want to be members of any golf club but play wherever reading this article we can no longer maintain a handicap (use to have society handicaps) as it clearly says to get a handicap you need to be a club member if that is so , then most courses will not allow us to play is that the intention or is the article wrong ?
35
02/11/2020 08:06:31 8 2
bbc
You can pay and play at almost all courses
109
02/11/2020 10:10:19 0 3
bbc
A lot of courses insist on an official handicap certificate. Not possible if you are not a member of a club now.
31
02/11/2020 08:03:08 9 4
bbc
My wife and I dont want to be members of any golf club but play wherever reading this article we can no longer maintain a handicap (use to have society handicaps) as it clearly says to get a handicap you need to be a club member if that is so , then most courses will not allow us to play is that the intention or is the article wrong ?
36
02/11/2020 08:07:17 6 3
bbc
Whats the point in having a handicap if you're not a member anywhere?
30
02/11/2020 08:00:39 3 3
bbc
It's change and no one likes change,, give it time it will sort it's self out. Players should note like the old system you can assess your handicap any time you play like the old supplementary scores.
37
02/11/2020 08:07:56 0 2
bbc
My own situation is worrying, I have had a terrible season, my handicap has gone up to 18, with the data going over my new handicap is 21:4 apply the slope and my playing handicap on my home course is now 23 with us now going to winter golf I can't change that till April 2021.
42
02/11/2020 08:15:00 1 0
bbc
No that is wrong, winter golf has no bearing it's part of the system now.
77
02/11/2020 09:15:11 2 0
bbc
So Paul62 that's another 5 shots going into winter golf, that should = ker ching, don't you just love the WHS. ??
38
02/11/2020 08:12:00 4 3
bbc
Very many people here have not fully grasped the new system and are asking questions from the wrong perspective eg, the handicap index is not your playing handicap etc.

I suggest you check the 6 videos on YouTube put out from England Golf that answers all the questions asked on this forum.
51
02/11/2020 08:25:57 2 2
bbc
Below,I mentioned my Handicap Index as being 10.6...making my playing handicap on my home course 12.This is down from 16 and is based upon a single exceptional (and likely unrepeatable) round. One of my playing partners has gone from a h'cap of 15 to a 17.7 index and a playing h'cap of 21...due to a couple of bad rounds.Is that reasonable?
31
02/11/2020 08:03:08 9 4
bbc
My wife and I dont want to be members of any golf club but play wherever reading this article we can no longer maintain a handicap (use to have society handicaps) as it clearly says to get a handicap you need to be a club member if that is so , then most courses will not allow us to play is that the intention or is the article wrong ?
39
02/11/2020 08:12:06 3 12
bbc
You might also want to try using punctuation next time you post a comment!
40
02/11/2020 08:12:44 3 1
bbc
Just logged in to the England Golf system this morning and guess what it isn't up and running.

Message saying still processing and hope to be up to date by Tuesday,,,,,,,,,,,,,
21
02/11/2020 07:35:47 2 7
bbc
On a brighter note, it looks like the Open is down the tubes for July.
41
02/11/2020 08:13:51 1 0
bbc
Eh?
37
02/11/2020 08:07:56 0 2
bbc
My own situation is worrying, I have had a terrible season, my handicap has gone up to 18, with the data going over my new handicap is 21:4 apply the slope and my playing handicap on my home course is now 23 with us now going to winter golf I can't change that till April 2021.
42
02/11/2020 08:15:00 1 0
bbc
No that is wrong, winter golf has no bearing it's part of the system now.
66
02/11/2020 08:56:06 0 0
bbc
At my club we will be playing of mats or lifting of the fairways and placing in the rough, are you saying my handicap under the new system will be assessed in these playing conditions ( winter golf) ?
31
02/11/2020 08:03:08 9 4
bbc
My wife and I dont want to be members of any golf club but play wherever reading this article we can no longer maintain a handicap (use to have society handicaps) as it clearly says to get a handicap you need to be a club member if that is so , then most courses will not allow us to play is that the intention or is the article wrong ?
43
02/11/2020 08:15:33 5 0
bbc
I don't think you will have a problem at most clubs. I am a club member, but do not recall ever being asked for my handicap certificate when booking to play at other courses.
44
02/11/2020 08:17:02 17 13
bbc
The WHS appears to have been devised by a bunch of people locked in a room to brainstorm a hypothetical issue and come up with a solution that is so complex no one (probably including themselves) understands and hiding behind buzz words like "big data", "analytics", etc. to justify it. I feel sorry for anyone who is not app savvy ... bad enough they are going to miss their digital Christmas too!
45
02/11/2020 08:17:28 53 15
bbc
This article mentions the easy part of the calculations, the detail is a lot more complicated.

With the old CONGU system it was pretty straightforward to work out how your handicap was going to change and informal societies /groups of players could replicate the calculation.

With WHS that is impossible.

And for what, how many people are bothered about taking their handicaps around the world.
199
02/11/2020 12:13:08 41 10
bbc
I'd rather play a tough course and get an extra 3 shots thanks to the slope rating, than turn up with my old CONGU handicap and struggle more than is necessary. That's the beauty of the new system.
303
02/11/2020 14:42:39 0 0
bbc
It's impossible for you to calculate the average of your best 8 scores?
488
02/11/2020 19:36:01 1 0
bbc
Funnily enough I play regularly in tournaments in Europe on the EDGA disabled tour. Not as uncommon as you may think.
556
03/11/2020 09:50:38 0 0
bbc
The old CONGU system was anything but simple. I defy you, or anyone else, to explain in a Churchillian half side of paper how the CSS was calculated for example.
31
02/11/2020 08:03:08 9 4
bbc
My wife and I dont want to be members of any golf club but play wherever reading this article we can no longer maintain a handicap (use to have society handicaps) as it clearly says to get a handicap you need to be a club member if that is so , then most courses will not allow us to play is that the intention or is the article wrong ?
46
02/11/2020 08:18:17 7 0
bbc
I think you've drawn a false conclusion, Neil. I didn't notice anything that said that you wouldn't be allowed to play; in these straitened times, I can't imagine any club would be turning away more players than they might have done before! It's simply that you won't be able to get an official handicap. But if you're only playing recreational golf, not competitions, is that a problem?
47
02/11/2020 08:19:04 29 19
bbc
Of course it's a huge money making data grab. Can you imagine the value of the email addresses and PDs of hundreds of thousands golf club members! Companies get access to many of the highest earners without even trying.
Whatever supposed golf-related advantages it provides is just a smokescreen.
175
02/11/2020 11:44:56 20 2
bbc
I don't belong to a golf club but I deal with the Data Protection Act and the associated regulations daily. It is a breach of regulations and probably a breach of law for any organisation which holds your personal data a) to refuse to disclose their policy for selling your data b) to refuse anyone an opt-out if/when data is sold. Unless Golf England complies with both these, they are in trouble.
248
02/11/2020 13:17:20 1 1
bbc
Absolutely correct. Wait for the emails to come flooding in.
263
02/11/2020 13:46:40 3 1
bbc
England Golf already had a way of uniquely identifying every golfer with a valid existing handicap - the CDH number. The fact that you have to use your CDH number to log in to their website is proof that they understand that. Saying they need email addresses and dates of birth is utterly dishonest.
431
02/11/2020 17:53:33 0 0
bbc
In New Zealand, we have been using the dotgolf system that England Golf have now purchased for administration of WHS for many years. No email addresses are made available to clubs or outside organisations. NZ Golf only email news items to those who opted in the receive such info.
48
02/11/2020 08:21:03 2 1
bbc
Maybe a new system is needed, It did used to be the case playing in prestigious amateur comps was always the way to get a super low hcap. Due to the fact standard sratch would be miles over even 75/76 at times saw it often. Of course due to the fact low handicappers say playing off 2-3 couldnt play to that consistently around the counties harder courses.
22
02/11/2020 07:42:11 6 4
bbc
So this new handicap system is supposed to be simpler and fairer. It does none of those things. It is unnecessarily complex. The course assessments are wrong. My club has 2 courses, one of championship standard. The front tees of the easier course is rated MORE difficult than the back tees of the championship course. Now tell me how that makes sense. Attract more players with this ? No chance
49
02/11/2020 08:21:26 4 1
bbc
My old course had a par of 69 from the front and 72 from the back. It was much more difficult from the front because 3 par 4s of 470 yards became easy par 5s from the back. So par from the front tees was way more difficult and the slope index correctly identifies that.
62
02/11/2020 08:45:39 1 0
bbc
Except that is not what the slope does!

In WHS the slope represents the relative difficulty of the course for a bogey golfer compared to a scratch golfer.

In your example it is the course rating that will show your par 69 is relatively more difficult than your par 72.
251
02/11/2020 13:24:40 0 0
bbc
Sorry, what's an "easy par five.........."? ??
29
JD
02/11/2020 07:59:48 23 5
bbc
Part of the rationale seems to be that it's trying to level up differences in handicap systems internationally. Regardless of covid, I'm not usually planning an international schedule of golf every year sadly to warrant this new system?? OK, maybe a trip abroad with some mates to play a round or two but not in a formal 'competition'? We're not Pros?
50
02/11/2020 08:24:28 34 4
bbc
It is also to level up differences between courses in Britain which can vary greatly in difficulty. For example, a ten handicap player at Carnoustie is probably a better player than a ten handicap player at a lot of other courses
103
02/11/2020 09:57:17 1 0
bbc
Differences in difficulty between courses was already built in to the CONGU handicap system with the SSS.

WHS has something similar called the course rating.
128
02/11/2020 10:42:38 0 0
bbc
Carnoustie par is 70 and SSS is 74 so difficulty is already catered for.
38
02/11/2020 08:12:00 4 3
bbc
Very many people here have not fully grasped the new system and are asking questions from the wrong perspective eg, the handicap index is not your playing handicap etc.

I suggest you check the 6 videos on YouTube put out from England Golf that answers all the questions asked on this forum.
51
02/11/2020 08:25:57 2 2
bbc
Below,I mentioned my Handicap Index as being 10.6...making my playing handicap on my home course 12.This is down from 16 and is based upon a single exceptional (and likely unrepeatable) round. One of my playing partners has gone from a h'cap of 15 to a 17.7 index and a playing h'cap of 21...due to a couple of bad rounds.Is that reasonable?
56
02/11/2020 08:37:07 3 0
bbc
Yes
89
02/11/2020 09:39:57 1 0
bbc
Based on the fact that the system calculates from the “last 20 rounds” and taking the “best 8 rounds” it is reasonable to expect that in a single year things will even out and will more evidently show your consistency against the course(s) you play regularly.
31
02/11/2020 08:03:08 9 4
bbc
My wife and I dont want to be members of any golf club but play wherever reading this article we can no longer maintain a handicap (use to have society handicaps) as it clearly says to get a handicap you need to be a club member if that is so , then most courses will not allow us to play is that the intention or is the article wrong ?
52
02/11/2020 08:28:56 4 0
bbc
Neil, you have never been allowed to have an 'officially recognised handicap' endorsed by England Golf unless you are a member of a Club and by default pay your affiliation fees to your county and England Golf. So for you my friend no difference.
16
02/11/2020 07:27:43 2 1
bbc
I suspect there might be plenty of unhappy golfers...apart from being unable to play due to lockdown. My handicap index is 10.6, down from yesterdays handicap of 16,and this was apparently calculated solely because I had an exceptionally good round in July. I would add that it is unlikely I could do the same again more than once in a blue moon.
53
02/11/2020 08:30:07 2 0
bbc
One of the reasons I've always baulked at getting a handicap and playing in comps. A lad I know joined a club recently and hasnt broken 115 on a par 72 and was given a handicap of 18. What incentive is there and how demoralising. All to stop you winning a crappy trophy once in a blue moon. No wonder golf's in decline
54
02/11/2020 08:30:29 1 3
bbc
Rubbish. It's not seismic. Another example of looking for controversy when it simply doesn't exist.

I wasn't using spreadsheets to calculate my previous handicap, and I won't be using one now. Just look it up.
13
02/11/2020 07:21:57 12 2
bbc
My question that a lot of players will be asking ‘ How will it stop the bandits winning competitions? ‘
55
02/11/2020 08:31:29 8 2
bbc
It already does. It gives people silly handicaps and the honest players out there get shafted with a handicap they can't play to for 5 years.
51
02/11/2020 08:25:57 2 2
bbc
Below,I mentioned my Handicap Index as being 10.6...making my playing handicap on my home course 12.This is down from 16 and is based upon a single exceptional (and likely unrepeatable) round. One of my playing partners has gone from a h'cap of 15 to a 17.7 index and a playing h'cap of 21...due to a couple of bad rounds.Is that reasonable?
56
02/11/2020 08:37:07 3 0
bbc
Yes
64
02/11/2020 08:50:44 0 0
bbc
Very informative reply...thank you.
57
02/11/2020 08:38:26 0 1
bbc
Due to a year long illness I have gone from 11.2 to 14.2, here in Spain they have given me a new h/cap of 16.2 due to WHS. I intended to play lots of non competitive rounds ( the old supplementary rounds ) to get my h/cap back down..here in Spain you are only allowed one supplementary a month, feels like I'm stuck in a vacuum.
71
02/11/2020 09:05:13 3 0
bbc
Why get so hung up on your handicap? Just go out and enjoy the game. If you are an 11 handicap playing off 16 it just gives you more chance to win ;)
58
02/11/2020 08:42:03 1 0
bbc
Should also have added..I'm on the R&H Committee here, have studied the new WHS during Covid and like most members, don't like it. Players are shooting scores in the high 30's/low 40's and their handicaps are going up....it works the other way as well. I thought putting as many score in as possible gave the best indication of ones ability, someone should have told Spain!
16
02/11/2020 07:27:43 2 1
bbc
I suspect there might be plenty of unhappy golfers...apart from being unable to play due to lockdown. My handicap index is 10.6, down from yesterdays handicap of 16,and this was apparently calculated solely because I had an exceptionally good round in July. I would add that it is unlikely I could do the same again more than once in a blue moon.
59
02/11/2020 08:42:08 2 0
bbc
A misunderstanding of what a handicap is for. Handicaps are to indicate what you are capable of playing too. Not what you will shoot every time you play. So clearly you are capable of playing off an handicap of 11.
60
02/11/2020 08:43:35 7 11
bbc
Why make handicaps available for club members only? I play regular to 'about 12', but currently, I don't have an official handicap because I can't stand the stuffy attitude you find alive and well at most clubs. So I prefer to pay and play and avoid the secret handshakes. Most of my friends are the same. Help us nomads! Make us feel wanted!
93
02/11/2020 09:43:44 8 0
bbc
Just checking... you are asking the clubs you called “stuffy” and which you don’t want to join to make you feel wanted ? Hahaha
32
02/11/2020 08:05:00 2 9
bbc
I am going to have to Google the word seismic before I comment further. Never heard of it before.
61
02/11/2020 08:43:42 1 1
bbc
Enormous proportions , tremors and earthquakes sensations ....

Just like how you trundle around the course with your bunker shots and the Thunder drives off the Tee. ??

Mixed reviews on the new format so in the long term can it assist in the long run .
140
02/11/2020 11:15:39 3 0
bbc
Ha ha 2 handicapper mate and if there is one thing I drop jaws with is it's my bunker play anywhere on the course.

You play a decent game too?
Hope you are good and will see you on our other boards.
49
02/11/2020 08:21:26 4 1
bbc
My old course had a par of 69 from the front and 72 from the back. It was much more difficult from the front because 3 par 4s of 470 yards became easy par 5s from the back. So par from the front tees was way more difficult and the slope index correctly identifies that.
62
02/11/2020 08:45:39 1 0
bbc
Except that is not what the slope does!

In WHS the slope represents the relative difficulty of the course for a bogey golfer compared to a scratch golfer.

In your example it is the course rating that will show your par 69 is relatively more difficult than your par 72.
63
Ian
02/11/2020 08:48:55 8 2
bbc
Hopefully this new system will reduce the opportunities for people to protect their handicap.

Nothing worse than playing in a 4BBB open competition and having an exceptional round of 45 points to find it's not good enough for a top ten place.
72
02/11/2020 09:05:36 5 2
bbc
Eh? If you're playing better ball, how can it possibly affect your handicap? You won't have played the full course! Even a single 'gimme' on a round voids your card, for handicap calculations.
56
02/11/2020 08:37:07 3 0
bbc
Yes
64
02/11/2020 08:50:44 0 0
bbc
Very informative reply...thank you.
68
02/11/2020 09:01:18 3 0
bbc
If you check the maths you will get it (I appreciate that is tricky with this system). Your course clearly has a high Slope. Averaging your best 8 rounds in the last 20 adjusted for the tough slope and any condition considerations will give you the answer.
It really isnt random even if you think it is.
Also, most of the world has had a slope system for years. We are one of the odd ones out.
16
02/11/2020 07:27:43 2 1
bbc
I suspect there might be plenty of unhappy golfers...apart from being unable to play due to lockdown. My handicap index is 10.6, down from yesterdays handicap of 16,and this was apparently calculated solely because I had an exceptionally good round in July. I would add that it is unlikely I could do the same again more than once in a blue moon.
65
02/11/2020 08:51:46 2 0
bbc
But you're comparing apples and oranges. Your handicap index is not the same thing as your 'old' handicap. You've got to apply that index to a given course, to be able to calculate your playing handicap on that course.

Anyway, an exceptionally good round (assuming your card was submitted) would always have cut your handicap.
76
02/11/2020 09:13:58 0 0
bbc
I know,and It did...41 points of a then handicap of 18 brought it down to 15,and subsequent scores moved it back up to 16. But under WHS my playing handicap has come down to 12 for the same course....based upon that one round and the thus 'awarded' handicap index of 10.6.
42
02/11/2020 08:15:00 1 0
bbc
No that is wrong, winter golf has no bearing it's part of the system now.
66
02/11/2020 08:56:06 0 0
bbc
At my club we will be playing of mats or lifting of the fairways and placing in the rough, are you saying my handicap under the new system will be assessed in these playing conditions ( winter golf) ?
67
02/11/2020 08:58:59 6 6
bbc
I'm not against these changes but, honestly, I don't think this is a problem that needed fixing. Arguably, the fact that an average golfer can hit a 300 yard drive, because of modern kit, is a larger threat to courses, most of which cannot be lengthened or adapted.
86
02/11/2020 09:29:56 2 0
bbc
An average golfer cannot hit 300 yards its more like 250 yards, agree about course length though, but there are simple solutions like our course has a 480 yard par 5 just adjust the tee position and make it a par 4, additionally too many golf courses don’t have restrictions at the 240-280 yard point.
135
02/11/2020 11:06:19 0 0
bbc
Hahahah, 'average caller hits it 300 yards'. In their dreams maybe. The average golfer probably drivers the ball about 220-240 max. Despite all this 'modern kit' you talk of, the average handicap has barely changed in 50 years either.
i can understand why you say that though. Most golfers are very generous with the truth when they tell you how far they can hit it.
64
02/11/2020 08:50:44 0 0
bbc
Very informative reply...thank you.
68
02/11/2020 09:01:18 3 0
bbc
If you check the maths you will get it (I appreciate that is tricky with this system). Your course clearly has a high Slope. Averaging your best 8 rounds in the last 20 adjusted for the tough slope and any condition considerations will give you the answer.
It really isnt random even if you think it is.
Also, most of the world has had a slope system for years. We are one of the odd ones out.
83
02/11/2020 09:27:18 0 5
bbc
We didn't need a slope system because each set of tees had a Standard Scratch Score.
69
02/11/2020 09:02:31 69 1
bbc
Ian to be fair you shouldn’t be scoring 45 points if your handicap is accurate. An exceptional round should be 40 points. People will find a way to ‘protect’ their hcap no matter what system you introduce.
75
Ian
02/11/2020 09:13:23 2 0
bbc
I take your point but, as I said, an exceptionally good round by both of us.

My point is that there are "golfers" out there who are happy to protect a high handicap in the hope that they can "win" Paris completions that don't affect their handicap.

Does the new system require a player to submit a minimum number of scores each season?
487
02/11/2020 19:33:10 0 0
bbc
agreed !
492
02/11/2020 19:47:27 0 0
bbc
I get those sometimes, first year having a handicap... if I don’t lose a ball and drain a few putts I can score 45+ however I often lose 2-3 balls a round and miss 5 putts so usually score my handicap... it’s come down by4 in 2020 but the wins have felt a bit hollow (because other players have completed in perhaps 10 less shots and only lost because I usually lose a few balls going for glory)
70
02/11/2020 09:04:14 67 26
bbc
So 99.9999% of the world's golfers can have a handicap anywhere on the planet. Well apart from overseas travel being impossible only 0.00001% of gofers ever travel abroad to play and even then do so for social reasons. WHS was completely unnecessary and has wasted millions.
117
02/11/2020 10:31:49 31 1
bbc
Playing local courses can be extremely variable. Four mates playing each other’s courses will be fairer. The main edict of golf - is it fair.
143
02/11/2020 11:16:47 2 3
bbc
Absolutely agree 100%. I travel to Spain to play, and not for competition but just to have a mini comp with friends..
145
02/11/2020 11:22:41 14 1
bbc
I don’t agree. I play lots of different local courses, and my handicap “travels well”, as my home course is more difficult than most in the area. That is now evened out, ensuring fairer handicapping when players play other courses.
158
02/11/2020 11:31:41 10 0
bbc
I see what you are saying but the point is that it creates a more level playing field for all courses, including the local courses. I'm lucky, I have over 200 courses within an hours drive of me and get to play a wide variety of Links and Parkland. I agree on your international point but WHS isn't all about that.
177
02/11/2020 11:46:54 4 0
bbc
WHS is the system that the whole world, except GB&I, has been using. The only reason it's packaged as WHS is so the R&A can appear to be relevant. Like most things the golfing authorities get involved in, the process has been unnecessarily complicated, as was the rules changes last year. It's actually incredibly simple, logical and fair. But why does it need to be gender specific?
379
02/11/2020 16:13:15 1 0
bbc
Absolutely, the one thing you can be sure of a lot of people has made a lot of money out of this.
504
02/11/2020 20:17:56 2 0
bbc
What an infernal waste of everyone's time and money this is. A pleasing amatuer sport has been grabbed by the digital bollocks for no good reason. They must be running out of worlds to ruin in everyone's workplace.
57
02/11/2020 08:38:26 0 1
bbc
Due to a year long illness I have gone from 11.2 to 14.2, here in Spain they have given me a new h/cap of 16.2 due to WHS. I intended to play lots of non competitive rounds ( the old supplementary rounds ) to get my h/cap back down..here in Spain you are only allowed one supplementary a month, feels like I'm stuck in a vacuum.
71
02/11/2020 09:05:13 3 0
bbc
Why get so hung up on your handicap? Just go out and enjoy the game. If you are an 11 handicap playing off 16 it just gives you more chance to win ;)
63
Ian
02/11/2020 08:48:55 8 2
bbc
Hopefully this new system will reduce the opportunities for people to protect their handicap.

Nothing worse than playing in a 4BBB open competition and having an exceptional round of 45 points to find it's not good enough for a top ten place.
72
02/11/2020 09:05:36 5 2
bbc
Eh? If you're playing better ball, how can it possibly affect your handicap? You won't have played the full course! Even a single 'gimme' on a round voids your card, for handicap calculations.
382
Ian
02/11/2020 16:17:25 0 0
bbc
In 4BBB both players have a handicap that determines the number of shots they receive.

If the 2 players have protected their handicaps while playing singles competitions then they will receive a higher number of shots giving then an advantage over honest golfers.

The 2 then have a good round resulting in winning prizes and move onto the next open with, as you say, no impact on their handicap.
73
02/11/2020 09:05:51 0 4
bbc
Any clubs in the West Midlands area who are going to opt out of the WHS and stick with the old system ?

‘The computer says so’ is never going to be an acceptable response to any unexpected movements in my handicap with my fellow players.
78
02/11/2020 09:16:35 5 1
bbc
Actually, your post hits on a very good point.

WHS is meant to provide a portable handicap and the vast majority of golfers just don't need, or want, that. To play at a different course is, often, just a social thing. So, for that majority, who only use a handicap at their home course, why do they need to change? I can see a lot of courses just giving two fingers to centralised handicaps.
144
02/11/2020 11:20:59 0 0
bbc
Not a chance.

The only way of "sticking with the old" system would be to do it yourself and no club is going to do that.

Your private handicap would also be invalid outside of your club.
74
02/11/2020 09:06:01 7 3
bbc
England Golf, the unelected "Governing Body of English Golf", a total irrelevance for 99% of club golfer and who's focus is on spending the money they get from Golf Clubs on elite amateurs and a staff of over 50 doing god knows what, they have now managed to become the Dictatorship of Handicaps, WHS is a good idea, EG with their data base of golfers details will monetise it at some.
447
02/11/2020 18:10:01 0 0
bbc
England Golf on the whole is an elected body.

The driving force behind the WHS are the R & A which really is an unelected body. They want to run every aspect of our game but 99.9% of club golfers have no input to their deliberations.
69
02/11/2020 09:02:31 69 1
bbc
Ian to be fair you shouldn’t be scoring 45 points if your handicap is accurate. An exceptional round should be 40 points. People will find a way to ‘protect’ their hcap no matter what system you introduce.
75
Ian
02/11/2020 09:13:23 2 0
bbc
I take your point but, as I said, an exceptionally good round by both of us.

My point is that there are "golfers" out there who are happy to protect a high handicap in the hope that they can "win" Paris completions that don't affect their handicap.

Does the new system require a player to submit a minimum number of scores each season?
233
02/11/2020 12:57:22 1 0
bbc
It's an average of 8 scores in 20 recorded. So large changes get smoothed out. There are measures for exceptional changes to be managed as well.
411
02/11/2020 17:09:33 1 0
bbc
No. The minimum number of rounds requirement has been removed. Just last 8 out of 20. But clubs can suspend handicaps if they think a member is abusing the system.
65
02/11/2020 08:51:46 2 0
bbc
But you're comparing apples and oranges. Your handicap index is not the same thing as your 'old' handicap. You've got to apply that index to a given course, to be able to calculate your playing handicap on that course.

Anyway, an exceptionally good round (assuming your card was submitted) would always have cut your handicap.
76
02/11/2020 09:13:58 0 0
bbc
I know,and It did...41 points of a then handicap of 18 brought it down to 15,and subsequent scores moved it back up to 16. But under WHS my playing handicap has come down to 12 for the same course....based upon that one round and the thus 'awarded' handicap index of 10.6.
225
02/11/2020 12:47:02 0 0
bbc
I take your point. And it will seem as though you're less competitive, if you've suddenly lost 4 shots on your home course. (I'm assuming that your home course must be, compared to the average, worldwide, a slightly easier course, hence the loss of 4 shots.)

The consolation is though, that if you mostly play competitions on your home course, your clubmates will also have been cut.
37
02/11/2020 08:07:56 0 2
bbc
My own situation is worrying, I have had a terrible season, my handicap has gone up to 18, with the data going over my new handicap is 21:4 apply the slope and my playing handicap on my home course is now 23 with us now going to winter golf I can't change that till April 2021.
77
02/11/2020 09:15:11 2 0
bbc
So Paul62 that's another 5 shots going into winter golf, that should = ker ching, don't you just love the WHS. ??
73
02/11/2020 09:05:51 0 4
bbc
Any clubs in the West Midlands area who are going to opt out of the WHS and stick with the old system ?

‘The computer says so’ is never going to be an acceptable response to any unexpected movements in my handicap with my fellow players.
78
02/11/2020 09:16:35 5 1
bbc
Actually, your post hits on a very good point.

WHS is meant to provide a portable handicap and the vast majority of golfers just don't need, or want, that. To play at a different course is, often, just a social thing. So, for that majority, who only use a handicap at their home course, why do they need to change? I can see a lot of courses just giving two fingers to centralised handicaps.
79
02/11/2020 09:17:08 21 12
bbc
I have played Golf around the world and turned up with a handicap certificate , checked the scorecard and knew how many strokes I would get. Played in competitions and got cut , got shots back. It was all so simple. Why change something that was not broken. Seniors Opens are going to be interesting this year !!
172
02/11/2020 11:41:06 15 2
bbc
It is broken Steve. I play on a course rated as just above average difficulty, so at the moment of if I play an easier course I have an advantage and the opposite is true if I pay at a tougher course. Simple and logical really.
80
02/11/2020 09:21:03 5 2
bbc
Angry jack is correct in statement, there is no need for EG to know your DOB, not because of giving your age but because the ability to use it for other means, also there is no guarantee that EG database won’t be hacked. I think WHS is a good idea but it is a bit OTT which is because the USA have had so much influence in it which says it all.
315
02/11/2020 14:55:42 0 0
bbc
It can be used for obtaining grants if you have a significant number of senior or junior golfers. I’ve worked at the top level of a different sport and there’s money available from Sport England and similar bodies. Look up something like the “I will if you will” initiative for a good example of this.
81
02/11/2020 09:22:02 0 0
bbc
I’ll take a 28 independent of where I’m playing. Happy days.
82
02/11/2020 09:22:57 1 0
bbc
As long as its easier to understand than our covid restrictions l'll be happy.
68
02/11/2020 09:01:18 3 0
bbc
If you check the maths you will get it (I appreciate that is tricky with this system). Your course clearly has a high Slope. Averaging your best 8 rounds in the last 20 adjusted for the tough slope and any condition considerations will give you the answer.
It really isnt random even if you think it is.
Also, most of the world has had a slope system for years. We are one of the odd ones out.
83
02/11/2020 09:27:18 0 5
bbc
We didn't need a slope system because each set of tees had a Standard Scratch Score.
90
02/11/2020 09:39:59 1 0
bbc
Brexit style Britishness does not apply here. Yes, we were happy with Congu but Congu was not the most used system worldwide. So despite our British expectations that the rest of the world adopts our system or alternatively we have a system used everywhere else in the world except here, we are stuck with it. In a year most of us will have moved on except of course those who just like a good moan
84
02/11/2020 09:29:43 34 3
bbc
Main benefit of WHS is that handicap calculation is now fairer and more accurate. Think of adding a new score, the system then computes your handicap using the principles of the Annual Review, rather than an arbitrary cut based on buffer or increase based on 0.1. I really don't think many people understand this.
321
02/11/2020 15:03:15 11 4
bbc
So explain to me why, in club competitions, England Golf have made it mandatory that you only get 95% of this "more accurate" handicap
547
03/11/2020 09:00:18 2 0
bbc
Fairer is in the eye of the beholder.

Say under CONGU you had a good round of 38pts which would probably have reduced your handicap by 0.6. However under WHS your handicap could actually increase because a 40pts you scored 2 years ago has now dropped out of your last 20 rounds.

Also why introduce slope which gives more shots to high handicappers then take it away with all competitions off 95%
85
02/11/2020 09:29:45 32 6
bbc
Embarrassing that the vast majority slate the WHS without an ounce of experience of using it. It's not "new" & neither is the methodology, the US & European GA have used an almost identical system for years. We wonder why golf has an image problem? Whinging about moving to a system that over 50% of the world's golfers already use is proof positive of this! Get over it & see how the WHS performs.
91
02/11/2020 09:40:49 2 10
bbc
Brexit
92
02/11/2020 09:40:49 1 2
bbc
Any comments of mine on here have not been whinging.They have been to highlight current anomalies between two players of roughly the same ability,which may or may not be ironed out over time.
217
02/11/2020 12:41:04 0 3
bbc
we should be putting our minds to who actually wants the change and why? there was absolutely zero appetite for the change therefore it is in someone's interests (power/money....both) to make it happen.
422
02/11/2020 17:33:06 0 0
bbc
Much like any sport, golf has an image problem because it is played by people.
67
02/11/2020 08:58:59 6 6
bbc
I'm not against these changes but, honestly, I don't think this is a problem that needed fixing. Arguably, the fact that an average golfer can hit a 300 yard drive, because of modern kit, is a larger threat to courses, most of which cannot be lengthened or adapted.
86
02/11/2020 09:29:56 2 0
bbc
An average golfer cannot hit 300 yards its more like 250 yards, agree about course length though, but there are simple solutions like our course has a 480 yard par 5 just adjust the tee position and make it a par 4, additionally too many golf courses don’t have restrictions at the 240-280 yard point.
131
02/11/2020 10:58:58 0 0
bbc
I think I read somewhere it was actually more like 220 so again not an issue at all really. Was a USGA study. Still 3 years ago it was 210.
147
02/11/2020 11:25:44 2 0
bbc
It maybe about 250 yards for the average low handicap player, but they're in the top 1-2%. The average player hits much shorter than that (around 180-220 yards).
2
02/11/2020 06:46:14 42 11
bbc
The foundation of the new system is a great idea. The course where I used to be a member is short and relatively easy. My best handicap was ten, but no way could I beat a Muirfield ten handicapper in a tie. This new system levels the playing field
87
02/11/2020 09:35:48 3 2
bbc
Just to say Virgil the 10 handicapper from Muirfield wouldn’t be shooting near 10 much due to the sss being much higher there! That’s why your game against them would be competitive!
We’ve just fallen in line with other parts of the world but in no way would I say it’s better!
412
02/11/2020 17:09:41 2 2
bbc
SSS and CSS were clearly flawed. At my club one of the courses has a Par 72 SSS 74 situation so a 1 handicap effectively moves to 3 (tripling their handicap) and a 20 handicap moves to 22 (10% increase) that’s very clearly a poor outcome - slope is much better - particularly as a 1 handicap is much better equipped to deal with a 7000 yard CSS 74 course
34
02/11/2020 08:05:29 44 8
bbc
Not at all. In fact it's fantastically simplified now. Eg, I can take my handicap index of 4.7 anywhere in the world and know it will be adjusted to my ability. So I'll be off 6 at my club from the back tees, and about 13 at Augusta from their championship tees. Not that I'll ever play there mind!
88
02/11/2020 09:39:23 2 4
bbc
And all you had to do before was try and aim to beat the SSS which was the par score for your handicap making your handicap relevant against everyone.
I’m not saying the new systems rubbish but ours definitely wasn’t broke either! We’ve just fallen in line with others!
51
02/11/2020 08:25:57 2 2
bbc
Below,I mentioned my Handicap Index as being 10.6...making my playing handicap on my home course 12.This is down from 16 and is based upon a single exceptional (and likely unrepeatable) round. One of my playing partners has gone from a h'cap of 15 to a 17.7 index and a playing h'cap of 21...due to a couple of bad rounds.Is that reasonable?
89
02/11/2020 09:39:57 1 0
bbc
Based on the fact that the system calculates from the “last 20 rounds” and taking the “best 8 rounds” it is reasonable to expect that in a single year things will even out and will more evidently show your consistency against the course(s) you play regularly.
83
02/11/2020 09:27:18 0 5
bbc
We didn't need a slope system because each set of tees had a Standard Scratch Score.
90
02/11/2020 09:39:59 1 0
bbc
Brexit style Britishness does not apply here. Yes, we were happy with Congu but Congu was not the most used system worldwide. So despite our British expectations that the rest of the world adopts our system or alternatively we have a system used everywhere else in the world except here, we are stuck with it. In a year most of us will have moved on except of course those who just like a good moan
85
02/11/2020 09:29:45 32 6
bbc
Embarrassing that the vast majority slate the WHS without an ounce of experience of using it. It's not "new" & neither is the methodology, the US & European GA have used an almost identical system for years. We wonder why golf has an image problem? Whinging about moving to a system that over 50% of the world's golfers already use is proof positive of this! Get over it & see how the WHS performs.
91
02/11/2020 09:40:49 2 10
bbc
Brexit
85
02/11/2020 09:29:45 32 6
bbc
Embarrassing that the vast majority slate the WHS without an ounce of experience of using it. It's not "new" & neither is the methodology, the US & European GA have used an almost identical system for years. We wonder why golf has an image problem? Whinging about moving to a system that over 50% of the world's golfers already use is proof positive of this! Get over it & see how the WHS performs.
92
02/11/2020 09:40:49 1 2
bbc
Any comments of mine on here have not been whinging.They have been to highlight current anomalies between two players of roughly the same ability,which may or may not be ironed out over time.
60
02/11/2020 08:43:35 7 11
bbc
Why make handicaps available for club members only? I play regular to 'about 12', but currently, I don't have an official handicap because I can't stand the stuffy attitude you find alive and well at most clubs. So I prefer to pay and play and avoid the secret handshakes. Most of my friends are the same. Help us nomads! Make us feel wanted!
93
02/11/2020 09:43:44 8 0
bbc
Just checking... you are asking the clubs you called “stuffy” and which you don’t want to join to make you feel wanted ? Hahaha
94
02/11/2020 09:44:34 0 4
bbc
As a data handler your golf club should not even be entertaining passing of DOB etc to a third party data control, it’s only you as an individual who can agree directly with DC. Many of the county golf unions have let their clubs down and should have done more to stop the EG data grab...Targeted marketing you will get!!!
106
02/11/2020 10:01:58 0 0
bbc
My golf club told all its members that unless they agreed data sharing with EnglandGolf ,they would not get a recognised handicap index under WHS. Catch 22.
95
02/11/2020 09:47:42 0 4
bbc
It has taken me 6 years to get my handicap down to a respectable 14.7 playing at one club. At that same club I now get 16 shots under WHS. How can that be right? I was told that the new system would only affect rounds played away from home
126
02/11/2020 10:39:56 0 0
bbc
Once you take the % it will probably be close to your current handicap if you handicap is a true reflection of your form. One brilliant round when all the chips and puts go in does not felicity form.
587
03/11/2020 20:13:38 0 0
bbc
what are you on about?

14.7 under CONGU = 15 handicap and 15 shots in medal

You don't say clearly whether16 is your your Handicap Index or Course Handicap, but assuming it's course handicap then

16 x 95% (applied for individual stroke play) then you will get 15 shots in medal

Exactly the same!!
96
02/11/2020 09:49:00 0 5
bbc
WHS heavily influenced by USA and you only have to look at their fiasco of an election process which is complicated to the point of creating insomnia to realise things would never be the same.
97
02/11/2020 09:50:07 28 8
bbc
Golfers and golf clubs are reluctant to change anything. The WHS has to be a step forward in that it recognises that not all par 72 courses are of the same degree of difficulty. The introduction of the slope rating is long overdue.
221
02/11/2020 12:43:35 4 21
bbc
the slope is to massage those with high handicaps into believing they're better than they are....will therefore be motivated to play more golf, buy more equipment etc......it has zero to do with levelling the playing-field
551
03/11/2020 09:17:36 0 0
bbc
Under CONGU you are playing against the SSS of the course not the par.

In WHS the slope is not the course comparison difficulty rating it represents how much more difficult that particular course is for a bogey player compared to a scratch player. For example if a course has ditches that a scratch player flies over but a bogey player can't carry it will likely have a higher slope.
98
02/11/2020 09:50:29 2 9
bbc
don't know what all the fuss is about -golfers do my head in -don't even know why they call it a handicap its derisory -the only time i've gone anywhere near a golf club was loughton golf -it had an indian restaurant attached - once bought a plate full of chapatis and had a hole in one
188
02/11/2020 11:55:17 0 0
bbc
did your handicap go down -i once fell into a vat of hot curry i was in a korma for two hours
99
02/11/2020 09:51:09 6 4
bbc
Once you go "computerised" with personal data, you get unsolicited emails.
Plus who controls the data and how secure is it?
Look at the major companies hacked, you think this database will be immune?
Most "amateur" golfers just go and play a social game, long may it continue.
100
02/11/2020 09:51:37 2 0
bbc
I was expecting my handicap to have been updated online this morning. Nothing yet.