Which way will the 'GOAT race' turn?
11/10/2020 | sport | tennis | 542
Not only did Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic play for the French Open title on Sunday - they also jostled for position in the race to be the man with the most Grand Slam titles.
1
10/10/2020 21:56:43 28 24
bbc
GOAT = Federer
149
11/10/2020 00:30:43 17 23
bbc
Yea, maybe for casuals and "full-time mummy's" who think tennis is a sport that only happens for 2 weeks every July in southwest London

Anyone who actually values tennis as something other than that thing that replaces Bargain Hunt on the daytime tele circuit for a few hours in the summer has witnessed Federer being battered time after time by the other 2 for 10 years has a more informed opinion
2
AB
10/10/2020 21:56:46 4 9
bbc
Nadal or Federer. Djokovic isn't yet in the conversation until he wins a couple more slams.
409
11/10/2020 10:39:47 1 1
bbc
...even though Novak has a winning record against both of the other Two ???. Hmmmm.
3
10/10/2020 21:57:53 4 2
bbc
Federer, closeley followed by Jeremy Bates.
4
10/10/2020 21:59:34 16 15
bbc
Federer is miles better than the angry little goblin Djokovic
408
11/10/2020 10:37:14 3 0
bbc
When Novak was holding the Wimbledon (Federer's best surface ) Trophy after their last 3 contests ... Do you think Roger felt " Miles " better than Novak ?.
5
10/10/2020 22:00:07 158 49
bbc
Djokovic will almost certainly surpass Fed and Rafa for titles, but he will probably never be the GOAT.

He’s just not exciting enough and too contrived. If tennis was boxing, Federer would be Ali, Nadal would be Tyson and Djokovic would be Wladimir Klitschko. Hugely effective, but really boring.

It’s harsh, but there’s more to sport than just being good.
19
10/10/2020 22:18:52 51 78
bbc
There's nothing boring about Djokovic!! I think you'll find sport is mostly about being good.
117
DR1
10/10/2020 23:44:21 23 10
bbc
Totally agree, Djokovic is an amazing competitor, but when Federer plays the whole world tunes in to watch a genius at work
146
11/10/2020 00:23:40 1 4
bbc
and you would be???,
158
11/10/2020 01:27:33 11 10
bbc
That’s your opinion, your entitled to it but it’s nothing more than just an opinion. I find Djokovic to be a phenomenal athlete and tennis player. His return ability, his overall game is incredible. He’s been dominate on all surfaces. He barely has any weaknesses.
162
11/10/2020 01:32:22 8 5
bbc
Agreed. Djokovic moans about not being loved but is not gracious.
202
11/10/2020 06:27:24 4 8
bbc
utter bulllcrap spoken by a boring no character fed fan
283
11/10/2020 08:25:20 1 3
bbc
Boring is just the lame excuse people find to not call him the GOAT
396
11/10/2020 10:25:55 0 1
bbc
That’s the saddest view. There’s one thing about sport. WINNING, nobody’s cares for losers. It’s competition. And winning is everything.
403
MK
11/10/2020 10:35:37 0 1
bbc
Its a misplaced logic. Look at cricket, no one disputes Don Bradman as being the greatest, however, was he the most exciting to watch ? no he wasnt, Viv Richards and Sachin Tendulkar were way more exciting to watch, i believe. However it the mental strength that made DON the greatest....The bottom line is that whosoever accomplishes more (in an objective analysis) will be the GOAT.
456
11/10/2020 11:55:04 0 0
bbc
Being good is the entire point!
478
11/10/2020 13:05:57 0 0
bbc
And what's so 'exciting' about Nadal's tennis, eh?
501
11/10/2020 15:14:19 0 0
bbc
Federer is Ali???? Have a day off, Ali actually had a personality...
6
10/10/2020 22:01:05 6 9
bbc
When you take everything into consideration it kind of proves Djokovic is the GOAT
299
11/10/2020 08:39:49 0 0
bbc
I'd say, not quite yet. He is definitely shaping up to be. He has to surpass the others for GS titles really. I think he will do though!
7
Tom
10/10/2020 22:04:08 8 1
bbc
Tough one, either way it's hard to deny that we're about to bid farewell to the most competitive, and exciting 3-way rivalry we've ever seen in this sport.

I'm yet to be convinced by Kyrgios, Theim and Zverev etc. But here's hoping..
244
11/10/2020 07:41:42 0 0
bbc
Thiem did just win the US Open and a couple of the other guys have risen to the level of the Big 3.
8
10/10/2020 22:04:40 6 9
bbc
Federer GOAT. End of.
116
10/10/2020 23:40:02 0 2
bbc
Wow. Those Grand slam titles he won against Roddick, Baghdatis, Gonzalez and an ageing Agassi makes Federer definitely up there as the greatest of all time
9
10/10/2020 22:04:55 8 8
bbc
Jokkovitch is an embarrassment to his sport.
30
10/10/2020 22:25:17 8 2
bbc
your spelling is an embarrassment to English.
245
11/10/2020 07:42:22 0 1
bbc
Your spelling got me in stitches Old geezer... An instant karma for being so unkind to a man you don't really know.
10
10/10/2020 22:06:42 7 7
bbc
According to most of these metrics Djokovic = GOAT
11
10/10/2020 22:08:22 15 1
bbc
Does Tiger Tim still play? Come on Tim!
2001 was his year. Wasn't to be.
Anyway I digress... looking forward to the final. Tennis is the real winner
142
11/10/2020 00:11:04 5 0
bbc
I liked Tiger Tim tbf but he was never going to win a major unless the draw opened right up for him. It did once and he bottled it. That year 2001. If you read McEnroe's second autobiography he says that Tim was never good enough. He's his friend but he's right.
12
W 6
10/10/2020 22:08:35 39 22
bbc
Out of this generation it'll be Federer in my view. Being the 'GOAT' depends as much in a lot of sports on personality as well as ability. It could be argued Tyson eclipsed Ali in boxing in terms of ability but Ali's charisma means he's still widely considered the best. Same for Federer. All three are great, perhaps Djokovic will retire with the best record but Fed will be highest thought of.
26
10/10/2020 22:24:10 22 4
bbc
You're on cloud cuckoo land if you think Tyson was anywhere near Ali. He was perhaps more devastating, but don't confuse devastating with being the only skill in boxing
123
10/10/2020 23:50:08 5 1
bbc
Mike Tyson was never in the same league as Ali as far as boxing skills were concerned .
13
10/10/2020 22:09:15 42 20
bbc
Federer is the GOAT by numbers but also by style of play. Federer gets people out of their seats more than Nadal who is all about power and defence and Djokovic who is all baseline.
152
11/10/2020 00:38:42 18 13
bbc
Federer's ''numbers'' are inferior to both Nadal's and Djokovic's - check the stats at the ATP site.
14
10/10/2020 22:09:42 44 5
bbc
No Masters tournaments on Grass affects Fed the most.
114
FC
10/10/2020 23:38:28 10 3
bbc
No masters on Grass
No indoor GS
Slowing the GS courts - FO and AO are terribly slow and Wimbledon has slowed over the years.
308
11/10/2020 08:51:46 0 1
bbc
Very good point. They should make Halle and Queens masters events.
434
11/10/2020 11:24:57 0 0
bbc
That is a good point, but you could argue that grass is a minority surface so Wimbledon gives Federer an advantage.
15
10/10/2020 22:13:53 131 39
bbc
I grew up watching Federer float around the court and elevate tennis into something mesmerising, beautiful, and effortless. Nadal and Djokovic have never done that in my opinion. On paper whoever wins the most must be the best but Federer will always be the greatest.
48
HT
10/10/2020 22:38:05 67 27
bbc
Spot on. In my opinion it's quality not quantity that counts, and for pure quality (his sheer grace and mastery of the game) you can't beat Federer.
87
10/10/2020 23:14:55 7 13
bbc
Then in that case Gael Monfils or Mansour Bahrami are the GOAT
167
Ali
11/10/2020 01:49:53 15 2
bbc
Forget who is the "GOAT", I care much more about the awesome spectacle... all those incredible occasions where Federer's Grace met Nadal's incredible relentless shotmaking. Wow. We have been so lucky to just watch it all happen.
234
11/10/2020 07:31:30 3 10
bbc
That’s totally subjective though. You may prefer Federer’s style, I prefer Nadal’s, others would prefer Novak’s. Complete non-argument.
258
11/10/2020 07:59:35 3 7
bbc
Federer cannot be the greatest after he is surpassed by Nole, and he will be. Djokovic will have the most Slams by AO 2022.
377
11/10/2020 09:57:54 2 1
bbc
Agree with Fed comments, but I believe Rafa can as well, they both have their "OMG how did they do that??" moments. Novak's style is boring to watch in comparison.
398
11/10/2020 10:29:28 1 0
bbc
Agreed. There is more to sport than just winning. Ali, Pele,Sobers,Daley Thompson,Jack Nicklaus. These are among the best because they were more than just excellent players.
405
11/10/2020 10:36:08 1 5
bbc
The media egged by commercial interests have succeeded in convincing the non-discerning that Federer is the greatest.

They previously cited his records, but when it appeared his records were likely to be broken greatness was then redefined by a very subjective term - grace and mastery.

All hail Djokovic the greatest.
417
11/10/2020 11:10:04 1 1
bbc
Finally, someone has actually said....for me it's about influence,and fed has had the biggest influence.

Another thing to add, I will never consider Nadal to be goat, he is goat of clay. 12 of 19 GS at french open...that's is a clay specialist if ever there was one
454
11/10/2020 11:46:24 1 0
bbc
It’s called winning with style.
16
10/10/2020 22:15:10 3 1
bbc
The greatest tennis player of all time is Rod Laver, 2 Grand Slams, never achieved by any of these players and 6 years apart as he was excluded from intervening Grand Slams as he turned pro and missed 21 Grand Slam tournaments. Ask John McEnroe.
44
10/10/2020 22:36:25 3 1
bbc
Federer would have won several Grand Slams if it weren't for the bad luck of having the greatest French Open player ever turn up in his time!
52
10/10/2020 22:41:26 0 0
bbc
100% right. He invented the modern game. A true gentleman of the game.
17
Grb
10/10/2020 22:15:57 11 10
bbc
Federer is the GOAT.

To be at the top for so long is phenomenal. He’s raised the bar, the others are still trying to catch him
18
Gaz
10/10/2020 22:17:34 6 1
bbc
On clay, Nadal
5
10/10/2020 22:00:07 158 49
bbc
Djokovic will almost certainly surpass Fed and Rafa for titles, but he will probably never be the GOAT.

He’s just not exciting enough and too contrived. If tennis was boxing, Federer would be Ali, Nadal would be Tyson and Djokovic would be Wladimir Klitschko. Hugely effective, but really boring.

It’s harsh, but there’s more to sport than just being good.
19
10/10/2020 22:18:52 51 78
bbc
There's nothing boring about Djokovic!! I think you'll find sport is mostly about being good.
34
10/10/2020 22:29:55 31 8
bbc
Yes and no... you have to be good to be successful, but being the greatest in any sport is about showing people something that takes their breath away and makes them leap out of their seat with excitement. It’s all subjective, but I suspect it you ask most people Federer and Nadal do this far more often than Djokovic.
36
10/10/2020 22:32:07 36 7
bbc
Federer inspires and makes you want to watch and play tennis - Djokovic doesn't.

It's the same with Ronnie O'Sullivan & Selby, both are great but there's only one who takes your breath away and makes you want to watch. If they both had the same major count, you would say Ronnie is the GOAT - same for Federer
121
10/10/2020 23:48:51 6 4
bbc
He's boring.
315
11/10/2020 08:54:06 1 4
bbc
There is so much drivel being vented here it’s despicable! Irrespective of what you guys think personally of these players- the ultimate yardstick/measurement of GOAT is number of Grand Slams! If Novak goes ahead of Rafa and Roger he will be GOAT- end of debate very simple!
422
11/10/2020 11:14:25 0 0
bbc
Agreed! Just need to watch Zatopek!
494
11/10/2020 14:37:22 0 0
bbc
There's nothing pleasant or engaging about him either, and that counts a great deal in what is essentially an entertainment business. Still amazed that he claims not to know why he isn't popular.
20
10/10/2020 22:19:11 12 6
bbc
Being the GOAT just means you are the best. Nadal is is the GOAT on clay by a long long way but you couldn't even make an argument that Federer is the best on grass after losing three finals to Djokovic.
50
10/10/2020 22:39:53 6 1
bbc
That's an excellent point I must say
112
FC
10/10/2020 23:37:07 3 2
bbc
Not really, Djok beat Fed when he was in his 30s and at 38 Fed gave him a lesson (he beat him on almost all stats you can measure in a match) but choked at 40-15 otherwise we would be having a very different discussion.
452
11/10/2020 11:43:30 0 0
bbc
Not sure I totally agree there, it has the potential to be a bit more complex. People don't have enough respect for Fed's age. Nadal and Djok have had the dual benefit of younger than Fed, and few up-coming challengers. Fed has had to face a much nearer physical peak Djok in many finals, for example. There's an argument to be made there, though Fed is actually 3rd on my list by a smidge atm.
21
10/10/2020 22:20:49 21 5
bbc
Pointless debate.

If these guys were same age and played all.the majors on same surface, it would be easier and more fair to compare.

12 of nadal's 19 majors are on clay. Greatest clay courter of all time no question..but on grass he is beneath federer, on hard courts he will well behind djokovic.and federer. I think he hasn't even won the world tour finals event which is like the 5th major.
40
10/10/2020 22:33:06 19 33
bbc
Nadal beat a peak Federer on grass before he peaked himself. Federer is a level below the other two.
538
11/10/2020 21:45:58 0 0
bbc
olympics is the 5th major
22
10/10/2020 22:22:32 2 13
bbc
Federer and Djokovic faced a lot of rubbish players in their finals mainly Andy Murray so my vote goes to Nadal as GOAT.
23
10/10/2020 22:22:34 24 11
bbc
Federer set the standard for the two men 5 years younger than him to match, and he did it playing tennis David Foster Wallace equated to ‘religious experience’. He’s setting the standard even now with his longevity. Being a front runner counts for a lot.
37
10/10/2020 22:32:09 21 24
bbc
He has a padded record playing against a lower standard of opposition.
235
11/10/2020 07:32:12 1 2
bbc
great comment, agree all the way, sluggers will never win, grace will trump all.
445
11/10/2020 11:35:36 0 0
bbc
He did have 4 years playing philipousis and Roddick and Hewitt though.
24
10/10/2020 22:22:43 75 18
bbc
Seems unfair that there are 2 grand slams per year on Djokovics favourite surface (hard court)

If there were 2 grand slams per year on clay then Nadal would be on about 30 grand slams by now.

Likewise Federer if there were 2 on grass.
29
10/10/2020 22:25:14 11 10
bbc
Those hard courts are very different conditions.

US open is quick conditions with wind.

Australian open historically the courts are slower and the main court, correct me if im wrong, its indoors.
159
11/10/2020 01:29:21 10 7
bbc
Novak and his team clearly saw this glaringly obvious fact and adapted his game accordingly and for that and his scientific Faldo/Boardman-like approach to every aspect, he's my GOAT and let's respect that he's come from a country going through enormous change (a war!) as he was a youngster unlike being from a low tax/nod and a wink banking haven.
204
11/10/2020 06:41:18 6 4
bbc
But Novak's record at US open is not that great. He has only won 3, (I say only 3 when that is really a lot) where he has won 5 Wimbledons. US open plays differently to AO.
277
11/10/2020 08:19:19 0 0
bbc
It's just the way it is, there's no point wishing Federer had just 1 masters event on his favourite surface for instance.
292
11/10/2020 08:31:22 0 0
bbc
I think you look at it the wrong way round. The surfaces are what they are. If you look at it like that you could also say that it's unfair because tennis suits these guys more than others.
330
11/10/2020 09:08:38 2 1
bbc
Given that Djokovic has beaten Federer in 3 Wimbledon finals, I think 2 grass slams would benefit Djokovic! Lol
433
11/10/2020 11:22:18 0 0
bbc
Djok beat Federer at Wimbledon the lat 2 finals they played I think, no problem there...
25
10/10/2020 22:22:59 4 2
bbc
The GOAT in the room is an impossible task. How can Nadal be a GOAT when he's won so much on clay, sure he's the GOAT on clay but having watched tennis over 50 years I still reckon Rod Laver was as good as it gets.
109
10/10/2020 23:35:10 1 1
bbc
Rod Laver is the greatest. He won all of his Grand slam titles on Grass and Clay which are two of the most toughest surfaces to win on. And it was a time when hard courts were not around. Winning all four Grand slams in a calendar year twice will never be repeated in our lifetimes
12
W 6
10/10/2020 22:08:35 39 22
bbc
Out of this generation it'll be Federer in my view. Being the 'GOAT' depends as much in a lot of sports on personality as well as ability. It could be argued Tyson eclipsed Ali in boxing in terms of ability but Ali's charisma means he's still widely considered the best. Same for Federer. All three are great, perhaps Djokovic will retire with the best record but Fed will be highest thought of.
26
10/10/2020 22:24:10 22 4
bbc
You're on cloud cuckoo land if you think Tyson was anywhere near Ali. He was perhaps more devastating, but don't confuse devastating with being the only skill in boxing
309
11/10/2020 08:52:07 0 1
bbc
mike tyson versus reggie gross.tysons defensive skills that night the greatest moment in boxing history.steve lott tysons trainer said the same thing
27
10/10/2020 22:24:39 1 8
bbc
Nadal
Fed
Djokovic
35
10/10/2020 22:30:19 1 6
bbc
2
3
1
28
10/10/2020 22:24:45 5 10
bbc
Djokovic is the GOAT because he has the best record on hard courts which is the purest form of tennis. Luck plays too big a part on clay and especially on grass.
41
10/10/2020 22:33:51 3 2
bbc
Clueless
24
10/10/2020 22:22:43 75 18
bbc
Seems unfair that there are 2 grand slams per year on Djokovics favourite surface (hard court)

If there were 2 grand slams per year on clay then Nadal would be on about 30 grand slams by now.

Likewise Federer if there were 2 on grass.
29
10/10/2020 22:25:14 11 10
bbc
Those hard courts are very different conditions.

US open is quick conditions with wind.

Australian open historically the courts are slower and the main court, correct me if im wrong, its indoors.
43
10/10/2020 22:35:50 8 1
bbc
You are wrong. No grand slams are indoors. All outdoors with a roof in case of rain
9
10/10/2020 22:04:55 8 8
bbc
Jokkovitch is an embarrassment to his sport.
30
10/10/2020 22:25:17 8 2
bbc
your spelling is an embarrassment to English.
31
10/10/2020 22:26:01 2 6
bbc
I live in the heart of the Black Country between Wolverhampton and Dudley and no one cares about tennis. And there lies the problem.
39
10/10/2020 22:32:42 1 1
bbc
Yep, tennis isn’t big in Wolverhampton so the rest of the world should stop talking about it ??
32
10/10/2020 22:28:13 5 11
bbc
Nadal and Djokovic are a level above Federer. Federer had a period where he won his titles against lesser opposition. Nadal has beaten Federer at Wimbledon and Novak on hard court. Neither have beat him on clay at RG when fit. Nadal is my favourite, Federer the most aesthetically pleasing, but probably Djokovic the GOAT.
49
10/10/2020 22:38:56 3 3
bbc
Federer has beaten nadal 3 times at wimbeldon.

Nadal beat fed once in 2008 which was 9-7 in the 5ft set in darkness.
33
10/10/2020 22:29:23 2 2
bbc
There is no such thing as a goat.
19
10/10/2020 22:18:52 51 78
bbc
There's nothing boring about Djokovic!! I think you'll find sport is mostly about being good.
34
10/10/2020 22:29:55 31 8
bbc
Yes and no... you have to be good to be successful, but being the greatest in any sport is about showing people something that takes their breath away and makes them leap out of their seat with excitement. It’s all subjective, but I suspect it you ask most people Federer and Nadal do this far more often than Djokovic.
138
11/10/2020 00:09:22 9 21
bbc
No it isn't subjective at all. Being the best is objective. Djokovic is entertaining to watch - he can do the splits! His double handed backhand is phenomenal. He deserves a ton more respect and could easily go on to be the GOAT.
427
11/10/2020 11:16:18 0 0
bbc
Federer has the personality/psyche of a robot. Both on and off court. He is catatonically dull, compliant and very decadent. A few deft shots and soft hands are a minor consideration.
27
10/10/2020 22:24:39 1 8
bbc
Nadal
Fed
Djokovic
35
10/10/2020 22:30:19 1 6
bbc
2
3
1
106
FC
10/10/2020 23:33:28 0 2
bbc
Fed
.
.
Nadal
.
Djokovic
19
10/10/2020 22:18:52 51 78
bbc
There's nothing boring about Djokovic!! I think you'll find sport is mostly about being good.
36
10/10/2020 22:32:07 36 7
bbc
Federer inspires and makes you want to watch and play tennis - Djokovic doesn't.

It's the same with Ronnie O'Sullivan & Selby, both are great but there's only one who takes your breath away and makes you want to watch. If they both had the same major count, you would say Ronnie is the GOAT - same for Federer
51
10/10/2020 22:41:16 5 2
bbc
While I agree about Selby vs Ronnie as an isolated example, in general I prefer watching a scrappy frame to a perfectly crafted 5 minute 147. That Wilson Mcgill decider at the World Championship was possibly the best hour I've spent watching snooker!
23
10/10/2020 22:22:34 24 11
bbc
Federer set the standard for the two men 5 years younger than him to match, and he did it playing tennis David Foster Wallace equated to ‘religious experience’. He’s setting the standard even now with his longevity. Being a front runner counts for a lot.
37
10/10/2020 22:32:09 21 24
bbc
He has a padded record playing against a lower standard of opposition.
95
10/10/2020 23:20:02 8 4
bbc
A lot of people make this argument. Whilst previously true, I wouldn't say that's the case anymore. The current NextGen have proven to be a cut below any of the Big 3, and I don't think you can honestly argue that they're any better than the players Federer was beating between 03-07. Federer had it easier at the start of his career; Rafa and Djokovic have had it easier towards the end of theirs.
446
11/10/2020 11:36:09 0 0
bbc
Agreed
38
10/10/2020 22:32:14 4 5
bbc
@SteH11 yes but Djokovic is also a great grass court player having won 5 wimbledons and beater Federer 3 times in in finals there.
45
10/10/2020 22:37:12 3 2
bbc
Beating Federer at 33,34 and 38 isn't the most ringing of endorsements but yes it still stands.
100
FC
10/10/2020 23:26:50 0 0
bbc
To be fair at age 38 Federer outplayed him - games won, points one, aces, first serves points won etc etc. Look at the stats. He unfortunately choked at the end and that what people will remember.
31
10/10/2020 22:26:01 2 6
bbc
I live in the heart of the Black Country between Wolverhampton and Dudley and no one cares about tennis. And there lies the problem.
39
10/10/2020 22:32:42 1 1
bbc
Yep, tennis isn’t big in Wolverhampton so the rest of the world should stop talking about it ??
21
10/10/2020 22:20:49 21 5
bbc
Pointless debate.

If these guys were same age and played all.the majors on same surface, it would be easier and more fair to compare.

12 of nadal's 19 majors are on clay. Greatest clay courter of all time no question..but on grass he is beneath federer, on hard courts he will well behind djokovic.and federer. I think he hasn't even won the world tour finals event which is like the 5th major.
40
10/10/2020 22:33:06 19 33
bbc
Nadal beat a peak Federer on grass before he peaked himself. Federer is a level below the other two.
58
10/10/2020 22:47:00 10 5
bbc
Nadal has only beaten an ageing Federer once in the last six years (and that was at Roland Garros). Federer is 6-1 since 2015. Not sure he’s a level below.
297
11/10/2020 08:37:03 1 2
bbc
Federer played that entire tournament with mono.

People also seem to ignore he's beat Nadal on clay too just not at RG, it isn't like Federer couldn't he just never did at the biggest one.
410
Max
11/10/2020 10:40:19 1 3
bbc
it is noteworthy that Fed has a losing record against the other big two - but he started playing them regularly when he was arguably past his peak.
28
10/10/2020 22:24:45 5 10
bbc
Djokovic is the GOAT because he has the best record on hard courts which is the purest form of tennis. Luck plays too big a part on clay and especially on grass.
41
10/10/2020 22:33:51 3 2
bbc
Clueless
42
10/10/2020 22:35:14 15 5
bbc
Although it pains me - of this crop the the Novak is the greatest. Only one to hold all slams at once since Rod Laver who I do think is still the greatest with 2 slams. A large chunk of his career he could not play the slams as he turned pro. He created the backhand topsin, won in doubles, and mixed doubles. I also think those below the big three are not as strong as in previous eras
60
10/10/2020 22:48:34 20 10
bbc
It sits very uncomfortable with me.to label rafa as the GOAT.

Only 1 australian open and 2 wimbledons. Those are 2 of the most prestigious grand slams with their history (especially wimbledon).

Its same with roger given his lack of french open success..he never figured out how to beat rafa at Roland Garros.

Djokovic is like the job candidate with the best all round CV.
447
11/10/2020 11:37:17 0 0
bbc
Maybe the discussion should be laver v Borg v djok
29
10/10/2020 22:25:14 11 10
bbc
Those hard courts are very different conditions.

US open is quick conditions with wind.

Australian open historically the courts are slower and the main court, correct me if im wrong, its indoors.
43
10/10/2020 22:35:50 8 1
bbc
You are wrong. No grand slams are indoors. All outdoors with a roof in case of rain
16
10/10/2020 22:15:10 3 1
bbc
The greatest tennis player of all time is Rod Laver, 2 Grand Slams, never achieved by any of these players and 6 years apart as he was excluded from intervening Grand Slams as he turned pro and missed 21 Grand Slam tournaments. Ask John McEnroe.
44
10/10/2020 22:36:25 3 1
bbc
Federer would have won several Grand Slams if it weren't for the bad luck of having the greatest French Open player ever turn up in his time!
166
11/10/2020 01:45:19 0 0
bbc
Yeah but, if he was that good he would surely have beaten Nadal. Laver beat everyone in a very short career (measured by GS tournaments)
38
10/10/2020 22:32:14 4 5
bbc
@SteH11 yes but Djokovic is also a great grass court player having won 5 wimbledons and beater Federer 3 times in in finals there.
45
10/10/2020 22:37:12 3 2
bbc
Beating Federer at 33,34 and 38 isn't the most ringing of endorsements but yes it still stands.
102
10/10/2020 23:30:16 0 0
bbc
He has beaten him plenty of times at Grand slams even when Federer was dominating
125
10/10/2020 23:51:18 0 0
bbc
Better than beating Phillipousis, Riddick, Hewitt, Safin, Bagdatis...
46
10/10/2020 22:37:26 66 32
bbc
Federer for me, not just because of the titles won but because of the way he plays the game, the way he has been a role model for so many players and his longevity in the game. Novak is not a great man off the court, and Rafa only dominates 1 surface.
This is exactly it. Federer is a genius who inspired millions. Nadal is the King of Clay only. Djokovic is an idiot and can never be the GOAT because of his contrived behaviour, gamemanship and boring style of play. Removed
141
11/10/2020 00:10:48 8 4
bbc
"Novak is not a great man off the court"? huh? Why do you say that? He has got some bad press this last year but he is not a bad guy.
157
11/10/2020 00:56:11 3 6
bbc
In a grand slam scene, Federer has never beat Nadal on clay.. Nadal has beaten Federer on grass at his prime, for me Nadal is GOAT for that reason.

But,

I prefer watching Fed lol
395
11/10/2020 10:25:41 1 1
bbc
Totally agree, nadal has won 19 titles but 12 of them are on one surface....Roger has a greater spread over MANY surfaces, and Novak plays a defensive wait and see game, where Roger plays a flowing fluent attacking game, going for shots, and probably the reason why he has lost to the other two.....
465
11/10/2020 12:20:04 0 0
bbc
I agree. Also people forget that Federer was 5 years older to Nadal, Novak and Andy. He was on the downward slope when he started playing finals and semi-finals against them. Last year's Wimbledon is a classic example, in the 5th set at 8-7, he was beaten by his age! If he was same age as Novak, he would have won in 3 sets.
47
10/10/2020 22:37:41 17 8
bbc
Nadal is the best clay court player in history of tennis.

Its arguable djokovic is the best hard court player of all time..he's only 33!

I would give federer and sampras still the edge as best grass court players in history, but djokovic is very close behind. 1 or 2 more wimbledons and i will give it to novak.

Whatever happens tomorrow, feels djokovic is destined to be GOAT in 2-3 years time.
53
10/10/2020 22:43:59 7 2
bbc
I'm not sure whether Djokovic will catch Federer in slams if he loses tomorrow. He should have won the US Open but got disqualified. There's a lot of good young players out there now.
189
11/10/2020 05:08:45 0 0
bbc
2016 French open Djokovic held all 4 majors, His slam count was 12, Nadal was on 14, He has not caught Nadal in 4 years let alone Federer, There are no guarantees he will Pass Federer or Nadal, I think today's match will give the winner the push needed to be the GOAT
15
10/10/2020 22:13:53 131 39
bbc
I grew up watching Federer float around the court and elevate tennis into something mesmerising, beautiful, and effortless. Nadal and Djokovic have never done that in my opinion. On paper whoever wins the most must be the best but Federer will always be the greatest.
48
HT
10/10/2020 22:38:05 67 27
bbc
Spot on. In my opinion it's quality not quantity that counts, and for pure quality (his sheer grace and mastery of the game) you can't beat Federer.
428
11/10/2020 11:18:14 0 1
bbc
I think Djokovic is slightly higher quality than Federer; just look at their head2head in slams or anywhere else. If you're talking gracefulness then Federer is king , no doubt.
32
10/10/2020 22:28:13 5 11
bbc
Nadal and Djokovic are a level above Federer. Federer had a period where he won his titles against lesser opposition. Nadal has beaten Federer at Wimbledon and Novak on hard court. Neither have beat him on clay at RG when fit. Nadal is my favourite, Federer the most aesthetically pleasing, but probably Djokovic the GOAT.
49
10/10/2020 22:38:56 3 3
bbc
Federer has beaten nadal 3 times at wimbeldon.

Nadal beat fed once in 2008 which was 9-7 in the 5ft set in darkness.
70
10/10/2020 23:00:02 3 0
bbc
On Federer's best surface, when Federer was at his peak and Nadal wasn't. How many times has Federer beaten Nadal at RG? Also playing Nalbandian and Hewitt is not the same as playing Rafa or Novak. Federer has a padded record.
20
10/10/2020 22:19:11 12 6
bbc
Being the GOAT just means you are the best. Nadal is is the GOAT on clay by a long long way but you couldn't even make an argument that Federer is the best on grass after losing three finals to Djokovic.
50
10/10/2020 22:39:53 6 1
bbc
That's an excellent point I must say
36
10/10/2020 22:32:07 36 7
bbc
Federer inspires and makes you want to watch and play tennis - Djokovic doesn't.

It's the same with Ronnie O'Sullivan & Selby, both are great but there's only one who takes your breath away and makes you want to watch. If they both had the same major count, you would say Ronnie is the GOAT - same for Federer
51
10/10/2020 22:41:16 5 2
bbc
While I agree about Selby vs Ronnie as an isolated example, in general I prefer watching a scrappy frame to a perfectly crafted 5 minute 147. That Wilson Mcgill decider at the World Championship was possibly the best hour I've spent watching snooker!
85
FC
10/10/2020 23:13:38 11 6
bbc
@ Dee G, your on your own with that one. Im sure you have a picture of peter ebdon your wall.
16
10/10/2020 22:15:10 3 1
bbc
The greatest tennis player of all time is Rod Laver, 2 Grand Slams, never achieved by any of these players and 6 years apart as he was excluded from intervening Grand Slams as he turned pro and missed 21 Grand Slam tournaments. Ask John McEnroe.
52
10/10/2020 22:41:26 0 0
bbc
100% right. He invented the modern game. A true gentleman of the game.
47
10/10/2020 22:37:41 17 8
bbc
Nadal is the best clay court player in history of tennis.

Its arguable djokovic is the best hard court player of all time..he's only 33!

I would give federer and sampras still the edge as best grass court players in history, but djokovic is very close behind. 1 or 2 more wimbledons and i will give it to novak.

Whatever happens tomorrow, feels djokovic is destined to be GOAT in 2-3 years time.
53
10/10/2020 22:43:59 7 2
bbc
I'm not sure whether Djokovic will catch Federer in slams if he loses tomorrow. He should have won the US Open but got disqualified. There's a lot of good young players out there now.
99
10/10/2020 23:25:59 0 0
bbc
I think Djokovic will win another two Australian Open titles. And at least two Wimbledons and US Open titles. Not sure about the French as there is a certain King of clay still competing
54
10/10/2020 22:44:04 1 1
bbc
I think a more entertaining thread would be greatest player not to win a slam. I elect the cavalier entertainer Henri LeConte
265
11/10/2020 08:07:35 0 0
bbc
David Ferrer or Jo-Wilfried Tsonga.
55
10/10/2020 22:45:17 5 5
bbc
I think Djokovic is the only player since Rod Laver to hold all four Grand slam titles at the same time. So maybe he should be the greatest of all time
96
FC
10/10/2020 23:20:30 3 2
bbc
the kind of logic i would expect from a liverpool supporter
56
10/10/2020 22:45:19 9 4
bbc
The h2h records are so difficult to look into. Novak only overtook the h2h with Fed after Federer turned 35. Had Federer retired at the age when the rest of his generation did the h2h would be quite great in his favour. He's traded winning 3 more majors for conceding the h2h with Novak as he's played late into his 30s, approaching 40.
63
10/10/2020 22:50:45 11 3
bbc
Thats a difficult one because Federer had a massive advantage when he was at his peak and Djokovic was learning the game. So it balances itself out really
352
11/10/2020 09:36:04 2 0
bbc
I see what you mean. That's why Henman had a 6-1 record against a young Federer, but traded it in for an extra QF at Wimbledon.
57
10/10/2020 22:45:25 8 5
bbc
A few comments re Federer having easier opponents in his heyday. Does that mean he was just much better than them? Just take a look at how ‘easily Nadal won most of his 12 French titles. No competition - therefore easy opponents?
127
10/10/2020 23:52:36 6 0
bbc
Do you include Federer in that list of easy opponents?
350
11/10/2020 09:32:55 2 0
bbc
They were easier opponents because Djokovic and Nadal were developing. They often had to play each other in semis before the final too. Federer and Djokovic were around for all of Nadals RG titles. Nadal adapted to beat a prime Federer on grass. Federer never managed to do the same to Nadal.
40
10/10/2020 22:33:06 19 33
bbc
Nadal beat a peak Federer on grass before he peaked himself. Federer is a level below the other two.
58
10/10/2020 22:47:00 10 5
bbc
Nadal has only beaten an ageing Federer once in the last six years (and that was at Roland Garros). Federer is 6-1 since 2015. Not sure he’s a level below.
67
10/10/2020 22:57:31 10 4
bbc
Nadal is injury worn. If Nadal and Djokovic and Murray were 5 years older Federer would have about 8 slams.
129
10/10/2020 23:55:48 4 6
bbc
And Roger thrashed the Serb in two sets at the ATP Finals last year.
59
10/10/2020 22:48:13 3 2
bbc
Pointless comparison but passes the Covid 19 time.....

Djokovic will win most GS and won't be surpassed for at least 30 years (probably more) and hold all the other notable records

Nadal will surpass Fed on his way to 15 FO

Fed will be most popular & the grandee of tennis for 30 years

Other era's are available!

Prediction of final GS singles tally:

ND - 26
RN - 24 (incl RG '20)
RF - 20
42
10/10/2020 22:35:14 15 5
bbc
Although it pains me - of this crop the the Novak is the greatest. Only one to hold all slams at once since Rod Laver who I do think is still the greatest with 2 slams. A large chunk of his career he could not play the slams as he turned pro. He created the backhand topsin, won in doubles, and mixed doubles. I also think those below the big three are not as strong as in previous eras
60
10/10/2020 22:48:34 20 10
bbc
It sits very uncomfortable with me.to label rafa as the GOAT.

Only 1 australian open and 2 wimbledons. Those are 2 of the most prestigious grand slams with their history (especially wimbledon).

Its same with roger given his lack of french open success..he never figured out how to beat rafa at Roland Garros.

Djokovic is like the job candidate with the best all round CV.
98
FC
10/10/2020 23:24:32 9 2
bbc
How many French opens does Djokovic have? Only one so your comment makes no sense.
101
10/10/2020 23:28:13 6 1
bbc
Only one French Open title for Federer is poor by his standards when he is regarded as one of the best players of all time
61
10/10/2020 22:48:46 26 2
bbc
A well-balanced article, however it should have mentioned Rod Laver's claim to be GOAT. He won 11 majors, but was unable to compete for the five years he was on the professional circuit- when he was unquestionably the world no.1.
97
10/10/2020 23:22:48 15 1
bbc
How many more Grand slam titles would he have won if he never competed on the professional circuit. And still the only player in history to win all four Grand slams in the same year twice
254
11/10/2020 07:51:12 1 0
bbc
They still played major tournaments but only 3 a year. Laver won 8 of those too so has 19 Majors. But Ken Rosewall, who "only" won 8 Grand Slams, won 15 Pro events, giving him 23 Majors. Way more than any of these guys, with less opportunity, but never gets a mention!
257
11/10/2020 07:58:11 0 0
bbc
Very good point, you often see this with the same discussion on who is the GOAT in association football is it Messi or Ronaldo and there are a number Pele as 1 example who should be in the discussion
62
10/10/2020 22:50:14 67 4
bbc
Borg should be in running. Won Roland Garos and Wimbledon 5 years on trot when grass was really fast. No one will ever do that again (I think)
65
10/10/2020 22:55:55 48 3
bbc
Yes and Borg played in a truly great era and retired at 27
213
11/10/2020 07:12:16 6 0
bbc
And the Australian Open wasn't really as high profile then. The one gap in Borg's record was never winning the US open, but for a player with the perfect clay court game to win Wimbledon five times, in the era of wham-bam serve volley was miraculous.
318
11/10/2020 08:57:53 2 0
bbc
He should be in the running, but he never won Roland Garros 5 years on the trot. He won 6 in total. 4 US Open finals too and he never competed for the Australian Open in the 70's as it wasn't seen as important to the bigger players until '83. He retired at 26, so who knows what he might've achieved.
339
11/10/2020 09:23:04 1 0
bbc
Retired to early,brilliant on grass and clay I remember it well??
400
11/10/2020 10:31:00 0 0
bbc
And he retired at 26. Laver for me is probably the best player overall,but Roger is the goat
56
10/10/2020 22:45:19 9 4
bbc
The h2h records are so difficult to look into. Novak only overtook the h2h with Fed after Federer turned 35. Had Federer retired at the age when the rest of his generation did the h2h would be quite great in his favour. He's traded winning 3 more majors for conceding the h2h with Novak as he's played late into his 30s, approaching 40.
63
10/10/2020 22:50:45 11 3
bbc
Thats a difficult one because Federer had a massive advantage when he was at his peak and Djokovic was learning the game. So it balances itself out really
76
10/10/2020 23:04:43 4 1
bbc
See, that's not necessarily true as Novak wasn't routinely making the late stages of tournaments when he was young which would've benefitted Federer in the h2h. It's a lot more nuanced than people think
64
10/10/2020 22:53:41 2 1
bbc
Please - let us stop judging the GOAT - different eras - for me - BB - 5 times winner when the surfaces were so different (RG /Wim)- BUT - maybe Rafa/ maybe RF / maybe Rod L / maybe Pete S/ .
It is all relative.
62
10/10/2020 22:50:14 67 4
bbc
Borg should be in running. Won Roland Garos and Wimbledon 5 years on trot when grass was really fast. No one will ever do that again (I think)
65
10/10/2020 22:55:55 48 3
bbc
Yes and Borg played in a truly great era and retired at 27
282
11/10/2020 08:25:19 2 3
bbc
Yes, well, you don't hand someone a title of 'best ever' or whatever because he retired early.
404
11/10/2020 10:35:39 0 0
bbc
He was 26. 89.8% record in Majors
431
11/10/2020 11:19:58 0 0
bbc
What a good point, anybody got ratios of wins comparing Borg and Djok?
66
10/10/2020 22:56:16 173 2
bbc
Never mind who is the GOAT, I find it utterly extraordinary that these 3 amazing talents have all been competing together, completely dominating men's tennis between them, for the best part of 2 decades. Just imagine how many Grand Slam titles each might have won, had the other 2 not been around!
79
10/10/2020 23:07:08 105 7
bbc
What a great point jonnie303. Similarly - and I’m no Scottish Nationalist by the way - how many slams would Sir Andy have won in a different era? If we’re talking about GOATs, he’s certainly Britain’s greatest in my view
169
11/10/2020 02:00:05 17 1
bbc
I think an argument could be made that they've all lifted each other's games over the years and each of them wouldn't have won as many of the four major tournaments if the other two hadn't been around, that they've kept each other competitive and will delay retirement for as long as possible while any of the other two are still competing.
179
11/10/2020 03:09:59 8 0
bbc
all of these guys have had injuries that would most likely have ended their stay at the top in any other era. injury prevention and rehab have come along way even since guys like sampras were playing, let alone laver. that's only one of the factors that makes it hard to compare.
243
11
11/10/2020 07:40:24 11 2
bbc
Well Federer would probably have another ten. I reckon he's lost about six French Open finals alone. For me, it will always be Roger; the style, the evolution, the apparently effortless grace and the sportsmanship. A true all round great for all times. What a gentleman! Definitely the greatest.
490
11/10/2020 14:22:00 1 0
bbc
exactly! We should be celebrating these three because tennis will be the loser when they decide to retire. To have 3 distinctively different champions in one era, won’t happen again for a long time !
58
10/10/2020 22:47:00 10 5
bbc
Nadal has only beaten an ageing Federer once in the last six years (and that was at Roland Garros). Federer is 6-1 since 2015. Not sure he’s a level below.
67
10/10/2020 22:57:31 10 4
bbc
Nadal is injury worn. If Nadal and Djokovic and Murray were 5 years older Federer would have about 8 slams.
110
FC
10/10/2020 23:35:27 6 7
bbc
If Djokovic and Nadal were five years older they would have retired by now and Fed would be cleaning up
68
10/10/2020 22:57:58 0 0
bbc
Agree - GOAT debate pretty pointless. But fun nonetheless
73
10/10/2020 23:02:54 0 1
bbc
Definitely fun!!
69
10/10/2020 22:58:24 10 4
bbc
Good article - well written.

But doesn't mention their physical conditions.

Nadal will be 35 next summer, has a history of tendonitis and will probably reduce his schedule significantly to peak on clay and US hard court season. He hasn't ever won the so called 5th major which is the world.tour finals (indoors) and hasnt won australian open since 2009 and wimbledon since 2010 (thats a DECADE ago)
122
10/10/2020 23:49:48 12 4
bbc
And when was the last time Federer won the French Open?
227
11/10/2020 07:28:09 1 1
bbc
Only Rafa has won the Olympics which is decisive imo.
49
10/10/2020 22:38:56 3 3
bbc
Federer has beaten nadal 3 times at wimbeldon.

Nadal beat fed once in 2008 which was 9-7 in the 5ft set in darkness.
70
10/10/2020 23:00:02 3 0
bbc
On Federer's best surface, when Federer was at his peak and Nadal wasn't. How many times has Federer beaten Nadal at RG? Also playing Nalbandian and Hewitt is not the same as playing Rafa or Novak. Federer has a padded record.
77
10/10/2020 23:05:37 0 3
bbc
Padded or not..he has beaten nadal and djokovic at wimbledon and in australia..those are facts.
71
10/10/2020 23:01:16 14 0
bbc
Throwing in a different question - sort of related. Who would you go and see play if you had to choose?
75
10/10/2020 23:03:30 21 9
bbc
Federer
82
FC
10/10/2020 23:11:43 13 4
bbc
Most people would say Federer - like Ronnie in Snooker, Messi in Football, Tiger in Golf etc. He is a genius and made the game look beautiful.
90
10/10/2020 23:15:47 8 0
bbc
In the current era - Nadal v Federer; in bygone eras, Borg v McEnroe and Rod Laver, each for the pure joy of watching these greats play. In my mind’s eye, they’re all playing at Wimbledon.
226
11/10/2020 07:26:53 4 2
bbc
Nadal without question. Totally unique athlete.
343
11/10/2020 09:25:36 1 1
bbc
Nadal ??
442
11/10/2020 11:32:50 0 1
bbc
Probably nadal or federer, but Djok is GOAT.
72
10/10/2020 23:01:36 6 1
bbc
It's a near-impossible task to compare players from different eras. For me, it's a case of choosing the best of recent times, so no need for Laver in that discussion.

As for these three, an overlooked debate is how effective their styles (including changes during their careers) would be in past eras. This is v speculative, but I'd lean towards Federer winning that battle. Thoughts?
144
11/10/2020 00:18:35 4 1
bbc
I agree. On 1990s courts Federer would have excelled on the fast hard and grass courts. Djokovic would do OK too but found big serve volleyers quite a challenge like Agassi did. Nadal would win very rarely outside of the clay unless he changed his forhand a lot.
68
10/10/2020 22:57:58 0 0
bbc
Agree - GOAT debate pretty pointless. But fun nonetheless
73
10/10/2020 23:02:54 0 1
bbc
Definitely fun!!
74
10/10/2020 23:02:58 1 1
bbc
Might I point out that Olympic medals appear to have been overlooked? Or because they don’t garner ATP points, do they not count towards GOAT standings? Further, if Djokovic wins tomorrow then yes, he’ll be the first in the open era to win the 4 grand slams twice, but if Nadal were to win the Australian next January, he’ll be the second. This is a debate that could run for a good few years yet.
86
10/10/2020 23:13:44 7 1
bbc
Olympic medals!? I don't even think its recognised by the ATP/WTA. Once every 4 years..its not exactly a world cup for tennis players.

What carries more weight is the world tour finals. Thats the 5th major in tennis, gives alot of points, end of season so sometimes has a baring on the race to end world number 1.
71
10/10/2020 23:01:16 14 0
bbc
Throwing in a different question - sort of related. Who would you go and see play if you had to choose?
75
10/10/2020 23:03:30 21 9
bbc
Federer
190
11/10/2020 05:10:02 6 1
bbc
Federer
63
10/10/2020 22:50:45 11 3
bbc
Thats a difficult one because Federer had a massive advantage when he was at his peak and Djokovic was learning the game. So it balances itself out really
76
10/10/2020 23:04:43 4 1
bbc
See, that's not necessarily true as Novak wasn't routinely making the late stages of tournaments when he was young which would've benefitted Federer in the h2h. It's a lot more nuanced than people think
250
11/10/2020 07:46:43 1 0
bbc
Or played between AO 2016 and Cincinnati 2018 where Federer would have beaten him from 2017 and early 2018.
70
10/10/2020 23:00:02 3 0
bbc
On Federer's best surface, when Federer was at his peak and Nadal wasn't. How many times has Federer beaten Nadal at RG? Also playing Nalbandian and Hewitt is not the same as playing Rafa or Novak. Federer has a padded record.
77
10/10/2020 23:05:37 0 3
bbc
Padded or not..he has beaten nadal and djokovic at wimbledon and in australia..those are facts.
84
10/10/2020 23:12:59 2 0
bbc
The fact that they have both beaten him there too. The fact they have better head to head records. The fact that when they peaked he has barely won since.
78
10/10/2020 23:06:10 24 2
bbc
Begrudgingly, I think Djokovic will finish with the most slams at the end of the day!
Regardless of tomorrow's result, Nadal is the undoubted King of Clay!
66
10/10/2020 22:56:16 173 2
bbc
Never mind who is the GOAT, I find it utterly extraordinary that these 3 amazing talents have all been competing together, completely dominating men's tennis between them, for the best part of 2 decades. Just imagine how many Grand Slam titles each might have won, had the other 2 not been around!
79
10/10/2020 23:07:08 105 7
bbc
What a great point jonnie303. Similarly - and I’m no Scottish Nationalist by the way - how many slams would Sir Andy have won in a different era? If we’re talking about GOATs, he’s certainly Britain’s greatest in my view
334
11/10/2020 09:12:45 2 4
bbc
Heard of Fred Perry?
365
11/10/2020 09:45:24 0 2
bbc
None, Borg & McEnroe / Becker & Lendl / Sampras & Agassi would have smashed him all the time.
473
JTW
11/10/2020 12:29:57 2 2
bbc
He is Britain's greatest and has done well to compete with these 3 but he has only won 3 Slams and was only rated No1 because the other 3 were injured etc. In any other era he would have won much more but the standard has never been higher.
80
10/10/2020 23:09:23 1 3
bbc
Title are mainly depend on the draw, thus it should never be the gauge for GOAT. 2020 French Open draw is the prime example , Nadal,s half is much tougher than the Novak,s Half almost all clay court veterans are on Nadal’s half , Theim , Deago , Stan , Sinner ,Nadal . In my view titles alone wouldn’t be sufficient to measure the greatness of a player.
186
11/10/2020 04:55:14 0 0
bbc
Thiem and Zervev where in Nadal draw, It's hardly an easier draw, It's such a stupid argument, He had an easy draw, These 2 players got beat, Hardly Nadal fault, Let's be Frank, no one on Nadal side of the draw was going to beat him, Only Djokovic stands a chance
81
FC
10/10/2020 23:10:12 7 6
bbc
Who has been the best overall across different surfaces - Federer (he would have multiple FO if not for Nadal)

Who plays the most beautiful attacking tennis that looks like poetry in motion - Federer

Who is the best role model on and off the court - Federer

Most years number 1, most ATP and would have most Masters if there were some on grass! - Federer
108
10/10/2020 23:34:59 5 0
bbc
Take it you switched off in 2008? Federer on his best surface was beat by Nadal on his worst......
71
10/10/2020 23:01:16 14 0
bbc
Throwing in a different question - sort of related. Who would you go and see play if you had to choose?
82
FC
10/10/2020 23:11:43 13 4
bbc
Most people would say Federer - like Ronnie in Snooker, Messi in Football, Tiger in Golf etc. He is a genius and made the game look beautiful.
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10/10/2020 23:12:41 1 1
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Hey guys. One question for you. If Federer Nadal and Djokovic were the same age and started playing on the main tour at the same time. And were winning Grand slams at their peak then who do you think would have won the most Grand slam titles during this era
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10/10/2020 23:15:42 4 3
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The slowed the courts significantly over the past 10 years. On quicker surfaces, Federer would destroy the other two. Nadal would only win on Clay.
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10/10/2020 23:19:39 2 1
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If they had 1 grand slam played on indoor courts and also more masters 500/1000 tournaments played on gras..federer would have 3 or 4 more slams and probably in total 10 more titles...
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10/10/2020 23:05:37 0 3
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Padded or not..he has beaten nadal and djokovic at wimbledon and in australia..those are facts.
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10/10/2020 23:12:59 2 0
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The fact that they have both beaten him there too. The fact they have better head to head records. The fact that when they peaked he has barely won since.
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10/10/2020 23:30:57 0 3
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When they peaked Federer was over 30. Also you talk about padded, who have djokovic and nadal had to beat apart from each other and an aging Fed who still gave both of them whoopings in his late 30's. Do you think that would have happened the other way around?!. They've had a joke of a decade. Murray was the only one who briefly competed for a couple of years and then fell off.
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10/10/2020 22:41:16 5 2
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While I agree about Selby vs Ronnie as an isolated example, in general I prefer watching a scrappy frame to a perfectly crafted 5 minute 147. That Wilson Mcgill decider at the World Championship was possibly the best hour I've spent watching snooker!
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10/10/2020 23:13:38 11 6
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@ Dee G, your on your own with that one. Im sure you have a picture of peter ebdon your wall.
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11/10/2020 00:34:54 6 0
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Dennis mentioned during the tournament this year that a recent BBC poll on twitter showed most viewers agree with me (think it was over 70%), much to Stephen Hendry's chagrin. As for the cheap shot, watching someone take 5 mins to pot a brown (Ebdon) isn't the same as a dramatic scrap (e.g. Taylor-Davis final frame). Obviously, I didn't mean I like the former.
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10/10/2020 23:02:58 1 1
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Might I point out that Olympic medals appear to have been overlooked? Or because they don’t garner ATP points, do they not count towards GOAT standings? Further, if Djokovic wins tomorrow then yes, he’ll be the first in the open era to win the 4 grand slams twice, but if Nadal were to win the Australian next January, he’ll be the second. This is a debate that could run for a good few years yet.
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10/10/2020 23:13:44 7 1
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Olympic medals!? I don't even think its recognised by the ATP/WTA. Once every 4 years..its not exactly a world cup for tennis players.

What carries more weight is the world tour finals. Thats the 5th major in tennis, gives alot of points, end of season so sometimes has a baring on the race to end world number 1.
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10/10/2020 23:39:22 1 0
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Absolutely fair comment although you misunderstand me. I was merely alluding to quality and supremacy in the sport which would, one would think, be epitomised by achievement in the Olympics. Apologies for not making that clearer.
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10/10/2020 22:13:53 131 39
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I grew up watching Federer float around the court and elevate tennis into something mesmerising, beautiful, and effortless. Nadal and Djokovic have never done that in my opinion. On paper whoever wins the most must be the best but Federer will always be the greatest.
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10/10/2020 23:14:55 7 13
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Then in that case Gael Monfils or Mansour Bahrami are the GOAT
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10/10/2020 23:12:41 1 1
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Hey guys. One question for you. If Federer Nadal and Djokovic were the same age and started playing on the main tour at the same time. And were winning Grand slams at their peak then who do you think would have won the most Grand slam titles during this era
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10/10/2020 23:15:42 4 3
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The slowed the courts significantly over the past 10 years. On quicker surfaces, Federer would destroy the other two. Nadal would only win on Clay.
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10/10/2020 23:18:44 3 0
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But Nadal beat Federer at Wimbledon in 2008 and took him to 5 sets in 2007?
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10/10/2020 23:15:43 49 20
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For me Federer will always be the GOAT, no one plays tennis like him and I doubt anyone ever will. I never liked Nadal that much but I have a lot of respect for him, you can't deny he's been great for the game and his rivalry with Federer has produced some incredible matches.

Djokovic on the other hand is just a smarmy player that so desperately wants to be loved like Roger and Rafa.
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11/10/2020 11:26:44 4 3
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Great is different to popular; Fed is the most popular and graceful, we get that, but not GOAT
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10/10/2020 23:01:16 14 0
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Throwing in a different question - sort of related. Who would you go and see play if you had to choose?
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10/10/2020 23:15:47 8 0
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In the current era - Nadal v Federer; in bygone eras, Borg v McEnroe and Rod Laver, each for the pure joy of watching these greats play. In my mind’s eye, they’re all playing at Wimbledon.
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10/10/2020 23:16:47 35 10
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If Djokovic starts to struggle expect him to suddenly get injured and then make a miraculous recovery as soon as he starts playing well
Also have you ever noticed how in a long 5 setter his opponents are all sweating like a Turkey that has just seen Bernard Matthews grinning at him whilst he looks like he has been sitting in a fridge must be that special diet??
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11/10/2020 07:45:26 5 1
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....agreed.
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10/10/2020 22:37:26 66 32
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Federer for me, not just because of the titles won but because of the way he plays the game, the way he has been a role model for so many players and his longevity in the game. Novak is not a great man off the court, and Rafa only dominates 1 surface.
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This is exactly it. Federer is a genius who inspired millions. Nadal is the King of Clay only. Djokovic is an idiot and can never be the GOAT because of his contrived behaviour, gamemanship and boring style of play. Removed
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11/10/2020 00:48:27 3 0
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Nadal has 4 US Opens. Same as Mcenroe
Removed
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11/10/2020 07:28:35 0 0
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You and i must be cut from the same cloth, totally agree!!
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10/10/2020 23:15:42 4 3
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The slowed the courts significantly over the past 10 years. On quicker surfaces, Federer would destroy the other two. Nadal would only win on Clay.
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10/10/2020 23:18:44 3 0
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But Nadal beat Federer at Wimbledon in 2008 and took him to 5 sets in 2007?
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11/10/2020 00:24:58 1 0
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That is because the grass courts were bouncing higher and slower. Nadal has benefited hugely by slowing of surfaces.
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10/10/2020 23:12:41 1 1
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Hey guys. One question for you. If Federer Nadal and Djokovic were the same age and started playing on the main tour at the same time. And were winning Grand slams at their peak then who do you think would have won the most Grand slam titles during this era
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10/10/2020 23:19:39 2 1
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If they had 1 grand slam played on indoor courts and also more masters 500/1000 tournaments played on gras..federer would have 3 or 4 more slams and probably in total 10 more titles...
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10/10/2020 23:45:11 4 1
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Bit of a silly comment and if they has more grand slams played on clay Nadal would be way out in front
The point is they don't
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10/10/2020 22:32:09 21 24
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He has a padded record playing against a lower standard of opposition.
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10/10/2020 23:20:02 8 4
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A lot of people make this argument. Whilst previously true, I wouldn't say that's the case anymore. The current NextGen have proven to be a cut below any of the Big 3, and I don't think you can honestly argue that they're any better than the players Federer was beating between 03-07. Federer had it easier at the start of his career; Rafa and Djokovic have had it easier towards the end of theirs.
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10/10/2020 23:56:26 8 5
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The current crop are much better than Federer's first 6 titles. Only a very old Agassi had any real standing. ND and RN have also been beating RF before they peaked and when they did he had no answer.
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11/10/2020 10:06:19 0 2
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very good point. No way would I rate GS winners Andy Roddick or Lleyton Hewitt or Safin or even Agassi below the next gen crop. It's a redundant argument.
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10/10/2020 22:45:17 5 5
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I think Djokovic is the only player since Rod Laver to hold all four Grand slam titles at the same time. So maybe he should be the greatest of all time
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10/10/2020 23:20:30 3 2
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the kind of logic i would expect from a liverpool supporter
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10/10/2020 22:48:46 26 2
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A well-balanced article, however it should have mentioned Rod Laver's claim to be GOAT. He won 11 majors, but was unable to compete for the five years he was on the professional circuit- when he was unquestionably the world no.1.
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10/10/2020 23:22:48 15 1
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How many more Grand slam titles would he have won if he never competed on the professional circuit. And still the only player in history to win all four Grand slams in the same year twice
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11/10/2020 07:36:39 1 0
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Considering that Laver was the best Pro by 1966 and won the Pro Slam in 1967, probably around the 20 mark. But then how many would the likes of Rosewall and Gonzalez have won as well.
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10/10/2020 22:48:34 20 10
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It sits very uncomfortable with me.to label rafa as the GOAT.

Only 1 australian open and 2 wimbledons. Those are 2 of the most prestigious grand slams with their history (especially wimbledon).

Its same with roger given his lack of french open success..he never figured out how to beat rafa at Roland Garros.

Djokovic is like the job candidate with the best all round CV.
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10/10/2020 23:24:32 9 2
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How many French opens does Djokovic have? Only one so your comment makes no sense.
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11/10/2020 07:45:46 2 1
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Nadal is the greatest clay court player of all time. Its an amazing achievement.

Best player of all time - no way.

He hasn't beaten djokovic on a hard court in about 3 years.

He hasn't beaten roger on grass in about 10 years.

He hasn't won world tour finals.

He is no where near GOAT status.
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10/10/2020 22:43:59 7 2
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I'm not sure whether Djokovic will catch Federer in slams if he loses tomorrow. He should have won the US Open but got disqualified. There's a lot of good young players out there now.
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10/10/2020 23:25:59 0 0
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I think Djokovic will win another two Australian Open titles. And at least two Wimbledons and US Open titles. Not sure about the French as there is a certain King of clay still competing
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10/10/2020 22:32:14 4 5
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@SteH11 yes but Djokovic is also a great grass court player having won 5 wimbledons and beater Federer 3 times in in finals there.
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10/10/2020 23:26:50 0 0
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To be fair at age 38 Federer outplayed him - games won, points one, aces, first serves points won etc etc. Look at the stats. He unfortunately choked at the end and that what people will remember.